1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They call 6 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer Paul, 7 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: Mission controlled decond. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, 8 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. 9 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: We hope this episode finds you healthy and happy and 10 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: maybe amid grand adventure, perhaps even out on the ocean. 11 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: Now that so many countries are relaxing a lot of 12 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: their they're formerly draconian lockdown policies, today, we'd like to 13 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: explore the ocean along with you in a way. Uh. 14 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: The ocean is fascinating. We know less about what goes 15 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: on in the ocean now then we do about what 16 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: goes on on the surface of the moon. And you know, 17 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: people have very few people have been to the moon. 18 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: A lot of people have been uh on the surface 19 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: of the ocean. Uh, and a lot of people have 20 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: gone to the bottom, but far fewer people have returned 21 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: to the top. And one quick thing about that. As 22 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: we've just been learning, and as was announced by NASA today, 23 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: I believe we are sending a new little rover up 24 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: to the Moon called the Viper that's supposed to be 25 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: landing on the Moon and going around and looking for 26 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: water in which is pretty interesting. I believe that's all. 27 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: That kind of mission is also um at least partially 28 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: intended to be approving ground for or later searches on Mars. 29 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: Is that correct? Absolutely? Does it come equipped with a 30 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: little divining rod that just like kind of vibrates when 31 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: it hits water, It just kind of like sniffs around 32 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: for it. Yeah, more high wheels and then a small 33 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: protruding like spring loaded. Yeah. Well, I mean that's an 34 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: interesting question because, uh, it goes into the concept of 35 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: vibration and sound, which is what, uh, you know, all 36 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: sound is is vibration. And going back to the ocean, 37 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: the biggest source of water that we are experientially familiar 38 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: with as a species. We know that it is just 39 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: like the surface of the planet, it's riotous with life. 40 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: The thing is that the creatures in the ocean, wherever 41 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: they are in the ocean or these seas of ours, 42 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: they live a vastly different existence. In some cases, it's 43 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: almost alien like. We've often heard it said that cephalopods, 44 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: especially the sup for intelligent ones like octopuses, are the 45 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: closest our species has to you know, an example of 46 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: what alien life would look like. And and it's fascinating stuff, 47 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:18,839 Speaker 1: but it's also so obscured to us. It's it's occulted 48 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: the we we don't know what is happening in the ocean. Oh, 49 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: I know. And if you want to get a look 50 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: at that, I really recommend the I think it's called 51 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: Blue Planet or the Planet Earth. Maybe there's an episode 52 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: about the deep deep deep, like Marianna's trench deep ocean creatures, 53 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: and they look like aliens, like the angler fish with 54 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: the little light bulb thing on their heads. And then 55 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: this one called the vampire squid that looks literally like 56 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: something straight out of the Gates of hell Um. But 57 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: the adaptations that happen at those depths with such little 58 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: light are absolutely fascinating. And like you said, Ben, the 59 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: closest thing to alien life that I think we were 60 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: gonna be able to ever set our eyes on in 61 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: our lifetime, at least officially. And and and the thing 62 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: is that because Um, Unfortunately, because the vast majority of 63 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: human exploration, invention, and ingenuity depends on you know, the 64 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: concept of a monetary economy, by far the most popular 65 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: religious belief of our age. Uh, we find ourselves in 66 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: a position where as a species, we can get down 67 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: to incredible depths in the ocean, but we have to 68 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: propitiate to the economic gods first. It's that means it's 69 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 1: look pretentiousness society. It's very, very expensive to explore the ocean. 70 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: So what we're saying, and uh, people have always been 71 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: in this push pull over whether or not it's a 72 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: good investment to explore the ocean. Militaries are one of 73 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 1: the most powerful well forget one of Militaries are the 74 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: most powerful human force on or below the surface of 75 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 1: the ocean. And because it is so difficult and so 76 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: expensive to get actual people down past a certain depth 77 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: for any substantial length of time, we have built tools 78 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: to tell us what's going on. We've built We've built 79 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: this kind of um, synthetic mimicry of a natural thing 80 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: that existed, uh the way before humans actually existed. We 81 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,919 Speaker 1: invented something called sonar. It's turned every ship into the 82 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: Marvel comic book, he wrote, Daredevil, here are the facts. 83 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: That's a really good way to put it. That's exactly 84 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: what sonar does. It's also called, or is called stands 85 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: for sound navigation and ranging, and it's extremely common. It's 86 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: used in almost every vessel that is large enough to 87 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: travel around for any reason on on the ocean. And 88 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: just like you said, like Daredevil, it allows us to 89 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: see without visualizing, is using sound to essentially visualize what 90 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: exists both in the depths and out in front of 91 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: you and basically in three sixty degrees around you within 92 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: the water. And it really is fascinating that we were 93 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: able to figure out how this works, just humanity in general. Um, 94 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: and it it is really it's cool how it how 95 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: it mimics natural processes that a lot of other animals do. Yeah. 96 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: And and it's an old, old technology. It's much older 97 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: than you might think. Uh. A lot of people who 98 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: are perhaps in the younger demographic of our fellow listeners 99 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: may understandably think sonar is something that came about after 100 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: what would you say, guys, World War two? Maybe, Yeah, 101 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: it seems kind of techy. I mean, it always has 102 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: like a futuristic vibe when you think about you know, 103 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: the readouts and the way it looks like on a 104 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: submarine or enaval vessel with like the grid and like 105 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: you know, sending out the pings and being able to 106 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 1: recreate you know, um, you know, map topography underwater using sound. 107 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 1: That sounds pretty kind of brave, New world e and futuristic. 108 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 1: But we also have to remember that this is a 109 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: quote unquote technology that exists in the natural world, and 110 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: that we're kind of just mimicking that we've sort of 111 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: hijacked from, you know, organic beings like like whales and 112 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: uh and and dolphins. No, you're absolutely right. So you 113 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: can imagine how let's say someone studying animals, bats, even 114 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: or anyone else that's any other animal that's using echolocation, 115 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: but perhaps specifically an animal that's using sound within the water, 116 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: within the ocean to either communicate or to figure out 117 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: where it is and what's you know, what dangers lurk ahead. 118 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: So you imagine that studying animals, someone in eighteen twenty 119 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: two created sonar, Like imagine that there's at least the 120 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: precedent the thing that existed that became sonar. There was 121 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: a gentleman named Daniel Culloden. He stuck a bell underwater 122 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: and he was using this to calculate the speed of 123 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: sound as it's traveling through water rather than air. Like 124 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: if you it's very very different and it and it 125 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: does travel very differently. So that that occurred way back 126 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: in eighteen twenty two, then you do have to fast 127 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: forward a little bit further to nineteen o six, when 128 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: modern sonar as we generally understand it exists today. There's 129 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: a guy named Lewis Nixon who built a what we 130 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: would consider to be a sonar like device and it 131 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: was specifically made to detect icebergs. Yeah, and so it 132 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: was that a silly question. I'm not making a sound flipping, 133 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: but was that technology around the Titanic got Iceberg aheaded? 134 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: You know? It was like would they have just had 135 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: visual on that or like that would have been in 136 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: the late eld No, No that's not true. No, it 137 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 1: was after. It was after nineteen six, was after um, 138 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: the Louis Nixon invention. But the shame this is this 139 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: widespread and that's a m We could call it modern sonar, 140 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: but modern sonar is really galvanized by war like so 141 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: many other so many other great technological breakthroughs. It happens 142 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: as a way for people to figure out how to 143 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 1: kill more people or to figure out how to keep 144 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: more people from killing them. You could kind of imagine 145 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: it Ben like, oh all right, Nixon, Uh so this 146 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: thing can detect icebergs? Right? Well can it detect you know, 147 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: name the adversary Germans? And and you know submarines, of 148 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: course are an episode all their own in the modern day. Uh, 149 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: they're fascinating things. In World War Two there were horrible 150 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: places to be uh. And in World War One that 151 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: was even more true. But these things could be Um, 152 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: you know, the concern and about what submarines would be 153 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: common world War two really trigger this research. And sonar 154 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: and son are you know, not to belabor the point. Um. 155 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: Sonar works in a in a pretty straightforward way. The 156 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: way we can understand it at a high level without 157 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: getting into too much of the physics here, is that 158 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: it emits sound waves bing bing bing, and it measures 159 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: how long the echo of those sound waves takes to 160 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: return after it hits something. That means, for example, if 161 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: we're all on on the conspiracy cruise that's spelled s 162 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: E A, and we are using sonar and shallow water, 163 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: then our pins are gonna return to us more quickly 164 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: because they are traveling a shorter distance. But if we're 165 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: over a very deep part of the water, then it's 166 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: going to take longer for those sound waves to return. 167 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: And this is this is common knowledge. It's how bats 168 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: where gets out, daredevil works. There's nothing particularly scary about 169 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: it yet. There are two types of sonar though. Uh. 170 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: The first one is kind of what we described active 171 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,719 Speaker 1: sonar makes the sound, makes the pain, waits for the pain, 172 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: and then you're like, okay, there we are. UM. In general, 173 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: the longer distance stuff is going to use much lower 174 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: frequencies and we'll probably have some automotopia here in today's episode. 175 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: But the lowest long distance active sonar kind of makes 176 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: this like uh, this long sound. Uh, And it's valuable. Boats, 177 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: ships need this. We used sonar for a lot of stuff. 178 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: But there's another one you need to know about, and 179 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 1: that is passive sonar. Yeah, passive sonar listens but doesn't 180 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: transmit UM. And these are often used by militaries, but 181 00:11:55,559 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: scientific research uses these systems UM as well for for 182 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: entirely different applications. Passive sonar systems usually have a large 183 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: databases of sonic information that they collect. A computer system 184 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: can use these databases to identify different classes of ships 185 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: or um types of actions they might be taking, like speed, 186 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: or particular type of weapon that they're releasing, and even 187 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: you know, the make and model of the ship. Uh. 188 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 1: Sonar is also a super valuable tool for like we 189 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: said earlier, creating kind of um, recreating topography of underwater 190 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: UM landscapes, nautical charts and maps, UM, locating various underwater hazards, 191 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: mapping of the sea floor, uh, looking for shipwrecks, or uh, 192 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 1: you know, let's just take a step further, just because 193 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 1: we're all dreamers here, let's call it buried treasure. Uh. 194 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: And today it's used over more than seventy of the 195 00:12:54,200 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: world's oceans. So UM, like we sort of teased earlier, 196 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: this is not something that man just invented out of 197 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: whole cloth, says, something that whales use as well and 198 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: other underwater creatures. Whales in particular use it to know 199 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: how to move around, to how to make sure they're 200 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: not running into any icebergs or battleships or what have you. 201 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: Are just any kind of obstacles. Now, they're large creatures, uh, 202 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: and fascinating ones to boot um, even more fascinating than 203 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: the whole concept we're talking about here, which is sonar. 204 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: A lot of folks out there in podcast land are 205 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: probably gonna be surprised to learn just how much we 206 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: do not understand about whales in this the year. Yeah, yeah, 207 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: we uh. We are embarrassingly cartoonishly clueless about a lot 208 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: of aspects of whales in general. I want to separate 209 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,439 Speaker 1: a couple of things when we talk about whales and sonar. 210 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: We have to remember, first off, that there are quite 211 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: a few different type of whales. Often, I think when 212 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:08,719 Speaker 1: we hear whales, just the term we think of the 213 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: largest whale, right, the blue whale. That is, that is 214 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: what's called a baleen whale. They've got those weird plates. 215 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: They swim through the ocean. They just digest a bunch 216 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: of very small things. That's yeah, that's just that's just 217 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: their bag. They stuck with it. They're very good at it, 218 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: and they're huge. And then there are toothed whales. A 219 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: dolphin it's like an example of a toothed whale. These 220 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: are the ones that use echolocation to move around the 221 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: ocean and echolocation like we like we said earlier, it's 222 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: the natural world's predecessor to sonar. Whales have what you 223 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: could call a language. There's a lot of research that's 224 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: gone into the language of different whales, the ideas of 225 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: the songs and so on. So for whales that are 226 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: using echolocation, they're communicating in high whistles and pulse bursts 227 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: of sounds and then clicks. And this is interesting, this 228 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: is something I did not know. The clicks made by 229 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: toothed whales are the loudest sounds made by any marine mammal, 230 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: which means that once upon a time, before the age 231 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: of the anthroposyne, they were the loudest regular sounds in 232 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: the ocean. And and it sounds hyperbolic, but it is. 233 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: It is insane, Like they can use this, uh, they 234 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: can use these things in a in a weaponized way too. 235 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: They're mapping the sea floors they swim, they they're mapping 236 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: underwater obstacles like you said, Matt, depth of water, shorelines, 237 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: figuring out where other animals are. And then there's this 238 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: theory that's pretty new that says maybe some of their 239 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: high intensity focused sounds are almost like um almost like 240 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: the weapons in Dune. Maybe they're stunning or disorienting prey. 241 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: Maybe they're attacking with sound. I mean, that's pretty crazy, 242 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: and the science is pretty compelling. It's also a very 243 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: it's a very sensitive trait. That's why you know, like 244 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: like we see that animals tend to have a primary sense, 245 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: sort of a lead singer in the band of their senses. 246 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: For humans were a visual creature, right, we we have 247 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: taste and smell and sound and stuff, and they're all 248 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: very important, but we like to see stuff. And for 249 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: many of these animals, their their protagonists in their their 250 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: gang of senses. The leader of their sensory higst crew 251 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: is sound. Is this echolocation, which makes sense because you 252 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: can't you can't see very well as or in depths 253 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: of the ocean, right, it's more difficult um. And so 254 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: of course it's going to be those instruments on their 255 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: bodies are going to be more sensitive. The same way 256 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 1: that dogs are primarily um olfactory creatures. They live by 257 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: their sense of smell. That's why you don't if you 258 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: don't want to be a jerk, don't bop a dog 259 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: or a cat on the nose. They will be infuriated 260 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: with you. That's a really interesting thing to talk about. 261 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: There have been just about how sensitive the sensors are 262 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 1: on them on toothed whales, but also just the different 263 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 1: uses of sounds that they emanate. And you know, we're 264 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: talking about those clicks and being able to almost weaponize 265 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: them as like a an audio flash bang or something 266 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: to to be able to use like that. They've also 267 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: got sounds um, and not just toothed whales. You can 268 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: also think about a couple of their different kinds um, 269 00:17:54,920 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: gray whales, bowhead whales. They have they have behaviors that 270 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: are considered to be avoidance behaviors or like escape behaviors, 271 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: and the sounds that they can emanate when essentially distressed. 272 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: UM are extremely loud and some of the some of 273 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,360 Speaker 1: the louder, the other louder things that would have existed 274 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: in the ocean. UM. Just again, fascinating creatures. We have 275 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: a ton to learn. And you know we're talking mostly 276 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: about tooth whales here, but if you go back to 277 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 1: the balien whales, it's not as though they're just silently 278 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: trawling the waters and going around. These are the animals 279 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: that you would hear if you've ever heard anyone talk 280 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: about a whale song, or if you've heard any recordings 281 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: perhaps of something that would be called a whale song. Uh. 282 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 1: These whales do make a lot of sounds, and they 283 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: communicate uh through through these sounds with each other. Um 284 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: and against the same kind of thing we would talk about, um, 285 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 1: where is the food? Where are we going? Where? Where 286 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: are you here? I am at least that's our current understanding, 287 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 1: and we can only assume that it gets much much 288 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: more complicated than that. We just don't have a way 289 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: to translate. We do know that there are dialogue or 290 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 1: accent differences in different groups of of certain whales. We 291 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: know that some of these communications seem intergenerational, right that 292 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: they are taught to their young. There's also a heartbreaking 293 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: story of a one tone deaf whale that was excluded 294 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: from from its community. But we'll leave that heartbreak to 295 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: you to find, dear listener, Fellow conspiracy realists. Uh, Noel, 296 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,959 Speaker 1: I think you said you found a pretty good automotopack 297 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: description of what a whale song was is like written out? 298 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yeah? It was. It was pretty remarkable 299 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: to see it on paper, and I tried to uh, 300 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 1: pronounce it out for you guys. Off Mike, I'm going 301 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: to give it ano shot here. I'm not gonna do 302 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: an impressionable way. I was gonna kind of do it 303 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: like a human reading on a monopeia. Uh. It's something 304 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: along the lines of blur wah, wah wah. That was beautiful. 305 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 1: You can also find recordings, of course, of of whales 306 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: songs I believe from different uh like different years, different 307 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: parts of the ocean. Very well aware of this. There 308 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: is not at this point. There's one of the questions 309 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: I would ask if I were hearing this for the 310 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: first time. There's not at this point. Uh. What we 311 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: would understand is a good translation, right, there's not. Um. 312 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: They're having attempts to communicate with whales through through technological means. Um. 313 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: But right now, sadly enough, one of the most effective 314 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: ways that humans have communicated with whales is through sonar. 315 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: We have to talk about how these process as he's interact. Okay, 316 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 1: so we understand echolocation, we understand sonar. Right, I've got 317 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: the the I've got the basics. So a man with 318 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: two thought experiments, imagine you're walking in a dim, gigantic 319 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: room you're trying to find your way to the door 320 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,479 Speaker 1: to a negress all of a sudden, thousands of laser 321 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 1: lights or shining into your eyes or thousands of flashlights. 322 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: What they're doing is whomever is using those lights is 323 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,439 Speaker 1: illuminating the room for themselves, but they are blinding you 324 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: in the process. As part of the reason that police 325 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: and intimidation tactics will make sure to keep a light 326 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 1: on your eyes, it puts the person getting the light 327 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: shone on them at a tremendous disadvantage. It's a it's 328 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: a very similar thing with whales or since we're talking 329 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: about sound right, rather than talking about um site, imagine 330 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: that you're hanging out with with the four of us 331 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: at an Applebe's. I say the four of us because 332 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: Paul is of course there too. Oh to be in 333 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: an Applebee's right now, the apps right, and we're having 334 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: a chat. You know maybe um, maybe Matt is going 335 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 1: up to uh, I don't know, do something important. We'll 336 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: write the script later, uh. And then know you're you're 337 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: gonna say something to him like, hey, don't forget the uh, 338 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: you know, make it make that too margarite Margarita's or something. 339 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: But right Esnal is gonna say that somebody we don't know, 340 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: maybe never will meet again, burst into the lobby and 341 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: they blast sound, so much sound that it's like when 342 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: you can feel the base in your votes bones times twenty. 343 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: Forget trying to tell Matt about that, Margharita. Our ear 344 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: drums are bleeding. We're like, we're starting to lose consciousness, 345 00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: and then when the sound passes, we we are damaged. Yeah, 346 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: I mean, any any crossover listeners to Ridiculous History will 347 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: remember an episode we did UM with a pre eminent 348 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: expert on underwater explosions named Dr Rachel lance and we 349 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 1: talked about the sinking of the Hunley, which is a 350 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: super rudimentary uh or like civil war submarines wi I 351 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: didn't even know was a thing, but it's like basically 352 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: like a flint Stone's car submarine that you crank with 353 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: your feet, really really dangerous. Every time they did a 354 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 1: test runt of it, people died and then it actually 355 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: did single worship. But Dr lance Um her area of 356 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: expertise was talking about the way these underwater shock waves 357 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 1: affect our bodies and our internal organs and they can 358 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 1: cause serious internal damage to our viscera. And that's kind 359 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: of what we're talking about here, right, Yeah, And with 360 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 1: those two ideas, this at the very least complicates things. 361 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: So that's our question today. What is happening here, what's 362 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 1: happening under the surface of the ocean, and how are 363 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 1: you complicit? We'll tell you after a word from our sponsor. 364 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. Sonar is massively Paul, please 365 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: edit me here. We have to say it. Sonar is 366 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: massively in up whales. People knew about it before the 367 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: public did. And even when it was open secret. Uh, 368 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 1: the militaries of the world, which were and and you know, 369 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: shipping interests, uh, did some stuff that was similar to 370 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: the actions of oil companies when they knew about climate change. 371 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: It kind of fought against this right and they did 372 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: it for um, they did it pretty successfully, and they 373 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: did it for what they would see is compelling reasons, 374 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: what they would see as once again one of the 375 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: great boogeymen of history, the greater good. So what happened, 376 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: So if we go back to the early nineteen hundreds, 377 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 1: when we would consider that era to be the beginning 378 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: of sonar, let's say, you know, around World War One, 379 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: really then we would have to go much further. We're 380 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: talking sixty something years to get to around nineteen seventy one, 381 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: which is what we would say is the beginning of 382 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: academic concerns about what sonar is doing to wildlife, the 383 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: effects that it's having on whales and other creatures and 384 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,360 Speaker 1: animals in the ocean. And there were there were two 385 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: men that we're looking into this, Roger Payne and Douglas Webb. 386 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: They went on to prove that before humans had ships, 387 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: small ships, large ships, massive ships just go traveling across 388 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 1: the ocean and within the ocean. Before we were doing that, 389 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: the tones from creatures called thin whales, so it's a 390 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,199 Speaker 1: specific type of whale. The tones that they were generating 391 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: and the processes we've talked about prior to this. They 392 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 1: could travel as far as four thousand miles within the 393 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: ocean and still be discernible against just the ambient general 394 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: background noise that exists when you're in the ocean. Four 395 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: thousand miles the approximate distance of the Amazon River from 396 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: the beginning from the mouth to the end. So they 397 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: could say, uh, what up, I'm I'm a cool, cool 398 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: whale from the mouth of the Amazon River. Looking for 399 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: a cool while that to hang out with. And then 400 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: even if they were on the very far end of 401 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: the Amazon River four thousand miles away, Uh, these other 402 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: whales could hear them. Yeahs terrible example. Well, I mean 403 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,360 Speaker 1: it's it's pretty close to the Internet when you think 404 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 1: about just how large the ocean is and how far 405 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 1: away that is. If you're talking about four thousand miles 406 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: in every direction. Yeah, that's a good point. Mat A 407 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 1: lot of people don't realize that. Uh, the Internet is 408 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 1: four thousand miles long. That is a that is a 409 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,640 Speaker 1: hard limit that has been put into place. We did 410 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,479 Speaker 1: not make the rules. We just want to armu you 411 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 1: with the information. But there's a there's another stat there 412 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:27,919 Speaker 1: that is um I think even even more amazing. You 413 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: mentioned background noise, right, the ocean is like if you've 414 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: if you've ever been in a forest when nothing bad 415 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: is happening, then you realize that it is a It 416 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: is cacophonous. You know, there there's so much noise going on, 417 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: and if you don't hear a lot of noise, it's 418 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: either because you're there or because something worse than you 419 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: was there. So be careful. And it's amazing when you 420 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: think about it, if you look at what the Animal 421 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 1: Welfare Institute as well as the n O a A 422 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: and a couple of other organizations, um at least what 423 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: they have on their websites, what they say the research 424 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 1: is uh and this isn't completely accurate, but you can 425 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 1: you can look a little further into this if you wish. 426 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 1: But the relative sound level and intensity per decibels of 427 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: ambient ocean noise levels are it's a range from around 428 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: fifty five to eight five decibels, just as a standing 429 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: and if you compare that two what the effective levels 430 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: of l F A sonar are, that's that's around two 431 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: dred and thirty and higher decibels. So just if you 432 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: if you can go ahead and imagine that that's what 433 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: we're talking about here, I mean, that's that I think 434 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: is a stunning difference there. It also it also reminds 435 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: me that we know that in the days before propeller 436 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: driven watercraft, which obviously predates so are these uh, these 437 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: whale noises and sounds could travel even further, were even 438 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: louder because you know, of course these propellers make noise 439 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: pollution as well. The whales in the era the halcyon 440 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: days of pre propeller ocean, they could make sounds that 441 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: would travel thirteen thousand miles. That's an estimate. Uh. And 442 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: the reason it's an estimate is because that's more than 443 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: the diameter of Earth. So imagine being able to communicate 444 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: so well if you're you know, we're whales were swimming 445 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:42,239 Speaker 1: around and we yell hey. Then later behind us we 446 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: hear ourselves saying hey. I mean, that's not gonna have 447 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: because there are a lot of obstacles and land and stuff. 448 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: But if there were an uninterrupted sphere, that would be possible. 449 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: It's crazy. It's the the shot heard around the world 450 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: probably came from a whale instead of a person. It 451 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: does make you think that maybe maybe creatures that exist 452 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: in the water, just you know, as it is a 453 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: water planet, we're the ones that were meant to be, uh, 454 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: the intelligent species that evolved. Uh huh. That's that's gonna 455 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: take me down a rabbit hole for another another time. 456 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: It's like the Yeah, it's like the old Mitchell and 457 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: Webb sketch, you know, where these two Nazis are looking 458 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: at each other and one of them goes, are we 459 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: the batties are are we right, right, So we know 460 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: that they're just like there are different types of whales, 461 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: just like there are different types of ships, they're different 462 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: types of sonar. So maybe let's talk a little bit 463 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: about something called mid frequencies sonar. There's been research on this. 464 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: You know, think of low frequency, high frequency, mid frequency. 465 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: It's the goldilocks of sonar. It's not to be confused 466 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: with like mid century sonar, which is very clean lines 467 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: and you know, really aesthetically pleasing, um, but not particularly 468 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: trouble um. Okay, that was a bad dad joke. But 469 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: I'm furnishing my new house, so that's where my mind 470 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: is at right now. Uh So, Yeah, but there was 471 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: evidence of something called mid frequency sonar uh and how 472 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: it affects whales back as far as the nineties, which 473 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: compared to the invention of sonar itself is pretty recent. 474 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: In fact, whalers are the ones who actually figured it 475 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: out and used it to the detriment of these giant 476 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: and majestic creatures um and among whales. By Roger Payne, 477 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: who we mentioned earlier, he notes that whalers figured out 478 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: that uh, a frequency of three thousand hurts sent whales 479 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: into like panic mode. It caused them just to freak 480 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: out and to surface for air, maybe when they didn't 481 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: even need it, because the stress probably robbed them of 482 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: oxygen and they were breathing more rapidly, and so they 483 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: would come up to the surface more often, and this 484 00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: allowed them more opportunities to shoot them. So they had 485 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: these essential essentially sonar weapons on their boats that they 486 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: would use to to you know, deploy that frequency into 487 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,719 Speaker 1: the water and reap the rewards. Yeah, it was less useful. 488 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: It was designed to help them track whales, but as 489 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: soon as they found that sweet spot frequency, the real 490 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: reason they would use it. Their primary reason became just 491 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: what you're saying, you'll, uh make the whales do something 492 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: called panting. So when they panic, they release air and 493 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: and you know, like you said, they can stand in 494 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: the water a long time as long as they have 495 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: the air stored up, and they had to they had 496 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: to surface and then the whalers would get them. So 497 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: so at least some members of humanity figured out there 498 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: were ways that sonar clearly affected whales. Uh. But but 499 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: it goes beyond that. Aside from sonar being used by whalers, 500 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: which is an example of which more people knew. And 501 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: aside from it obviously hampering communication in the in the 502 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: gigantic applebee's of the ocean, how else does it affect 503 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: these creatures. The answer is something we've all heard of, 504 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: We've all seen pictures of it. It's called beachy. Yes 505 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: in men named Alexandro's Francis proved that twelve Couviiers beaked 506 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: whales beached themselves. They beat themselves alive. It wasn't as 507 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: though they were deceased and then washed up. They swam ashore. Uh. 508 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: They did that along the coast of Greece. According to 509 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: Alexandro's these whales did that while NATO was testing an 510 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: active sonar system and they were using two different kinds 511 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: that we've already talked about, both mid range and low 512 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: frequency transducers. Uh. So he essentially just kind of was 513 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: able to, in Alexandro's Francis, to point to it and say, hey, 514 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: look look at these beached whales. Look at there's there's 515 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: twelve them there. They were beached when this sonar system 516 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: was being tested, to actually point to it, not not 517 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: maybe for the first time, but to really show it. 518 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: And the article was published to get this two years 519 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: after This occurred in Nature Nature magazine in I like 520 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:23,879 Speaker 1: they differentiated in Nature Nature Magazine, y, yeah exactly, Uh yeah. 521 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: And it did a fine job of of of proving 522 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: a link, establishing a link between these mass beachings of 523 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: wales and the use of military grades sonar. UH. In 524 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: order to do that, they concluded that although you know, 525 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: you can't completely rule out pure coincidence, UM, there was 526 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: greater than a ninete chance that sonar testing caused that UM, 527 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: that situation. UH. And the idea that a low power 528 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: sonar could just keep in mind, this was not operating 529 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: a full capacity. A low power sonar could cause this 530 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: level of of chaos UH was really disturbing UM and 531 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: and pointing to how dangerous the technology could actually be 532 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: within these populations of whales. And by that point, most 533 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: of the research has been focused on the possibility of 534 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: figuring out a way to soften these signals or mask 535 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: them in some way, because it's you know, it's obviously 536 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: like like they're in you know, the whalers were using 537 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: the sonar to actually mess with the whales. But the 538 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: military grade sonar isn't intended to hurt whales. It's just 539 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: sort of an unfortunate byproduct like birds getting caught in 540 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,319 Speaker 1: wind turbines and the like. UM, so they were looking 541 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: into some possibilities of masking them to prevent situations like this, 542 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: also to prevent interference with things like mating calls and 543 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 1: other you know, functional uses of sonar by whales, like 544 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: avoiding giant obstructions, not crashing into sea walls or whatever 545 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 1: you want to call that. I just want to reiterate 546 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: here before we continue forward that you said it there 547 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,359 Speaker 1: and all that we've known about what is called here 548 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: or what we're calling here atypical you know, uh, landings 549 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: or beaching of whales at least a large numbers of them. 550 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: We've known about that for a long time. We've been 551 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: observing that. You probably remember as a kid seeing stories 552 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: about that, or maybe pictures and newspapers or something. I 553 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: certainly do. UM just want to just point out there 554 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 1: that it wasn't until uh in ninety six that it 555 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: was really known that this stuff was causing these pretty 556 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:46,919 Speaker 1: terrible occurrences shocked pokemon face dot gift. Honestly, I mean 557 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:52,280 Speaker 1: that sounds cynical, but look at the timeline. People people 558 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: knew the tough thing about being you know, um on 559 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: the side of science is that you have to have 560 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: the facts on your side as well, so you have 561 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 1: to conduct this research. But to me, it's weird that 562 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 1: the scientific community it was being surprised by that even 563 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: though we already knew that sonar in general could cause 564 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 1: this stuff. As a matter of fact, honestly, I understand 565 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: why a typical mass stranding or beaching is a technically 566 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: correct term, but it is pretty misleading because mass beaching 567 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 1: in general should be pretty a typical. I get like 568 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 1: English is such a tricky language and we put so 569 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,439 Speaker 1: many unnecessary things on there, like drug free school zone. 570 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: Really I don't know, and that's a different problem for 571 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 1: another day. But should not these all be a typical? 572 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,760 Speaker 1: I completely agree, And imagine what's happening to that creature. 573 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: Really imagine we we talked about it earlier on about 574 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,240 Speaker 1: being you know, in an environment where something comes along 575 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:03,839 Speaker 1: with just the most massive sound that it's just there's 576 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: no way for you to get out and away from 577 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 1: this sound, because that sound is just traveling wherever you go, 578 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,839 Speaker 1: and it's permeating the air no matter you know, we're 579 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 1: thinking about going inside of a house or something, or 580 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 1: in a structure. But imagine if that sound, if you're 581 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 1: on the desert or something, and it's a sound that 582 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 1: you can only continue to run in that desert. But 583 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: it's the sound isn't leaving. It's just as loud as 584 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: it was as you're trying to escape it. That's what 585 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: these creatures are going through in the water, and that's 586 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: why the beaching occurs, because there's just they're going until 587 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,959 Speaker 1: they can't go. It's just a tough thing to tough 588 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,160 Speaker 1: thing to think about. Yeah, that's I mean, that's a 589 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,919 Speaker 1: powerful way to put it. The ocean is one big 590 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 1: room without a door to close, and that that is terrifying. 591 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: So here, here's where we're at, kind of a um 592 00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: a watershed moment, the lid of Pandora's time jars unscrewed. 593 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 1: People know what's happening. Maybe not everybody, but uh, academics 594 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 1: know what's happening. Scientists know what's happening. The military certainly 595 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:16,480 Speaker 1: is I strongly suspective military was much more aware of 596 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 1: this much earlier. But it gets fast forward year two thousand, 597 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 1: this issue receives more widespread attention outside of the scientific 598 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 1: and environmentalist community. When a mass stranding occurs in the Bahamas. 599 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:36,000 Speaker 1: Three different types of whales wash up on the beach. 600 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:45,240 Speaker 1: It's crazy. The public backlash is huge. Eventually Uncle Sam says, Okay, 601 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,759 Speaker 1: this might have maybe just maybe have something to do 602 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:54,479 Speaker 1: with a little bit what aspect of the sonar UH 603 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 1: stuff that we're doing, which is super necessary. And then 604 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,839 Speaker 1: later they came back and they were like, Okay, it 605 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,359 Speaker 1: was us. Still this is super necessary stuff to do. 606 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 1: It's for the greater good. Um. And now as we 607 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,799 Speaker 1: move forward past two thousand and more research is conducted, 608 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,320 Speaker 1: both on events from two thousand to two thousand twenty 609 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:21,880 Speaker 1: and retroactively on previously unexplained events from before then, we 610 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: see that the list of species whose mass strandings are 611 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 1: linked to naval exercises just keeps growing. It's more and 612 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 1: more yes uh. And that includes beaked whales, doorf whales, 613 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 1: pygmy whales, sperm whales, pilot whales UH, several species of 614 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: dolphin UH, and also harbor porpoises. We've seen several mass 615 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: strandings in the Northern Indian Ocean that also coincide with 616 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:54,760 Speaker 1: naval UH tests and exercises involving sonar, and then includes 617 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,359 Speaker 1: one of the largest ever recorded two hundred to two 618 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dolphins UH stranded beached that still hasn't 619 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:06,759 Speaker 1: really gotten a whole lot of press or attention in 620 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,400 Speaker 1: the medium. Yeah. I mean, it's not like the whales 621 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: uh are go into court. Court is a human invention. 622 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,240 Speaker 1: A legal system is a human invention, and so humans 623 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 1: would have to participate if they wanted to help the 624 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: whales in a legal sense. We're gonna pause for a 625 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor and then come back with hopefully 626 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 1: some good news on that front. We're back dom law 627 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,320 Speaker 1: and order maritime. In response to lawsuits bought by multiple 628 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:52,280 Speaker 1: environmental groups, the U. S. Navy created a protocol regarding 629 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:57,279 Speaker 1: the use of sonar and whales. The basic idea is 630 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:03,279 Speaker 1: that before using certain sonar tools or devices, you check 631 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: to see whether there are animals around that would be affected, 632 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 1: and if there are, you can only turn your sonar 633 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: setting up to X degree, like X level of power, etcetera. UM. 634 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: This is not a perfect system because it's it's pretty 635 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: much defined as uh, we'll get to it, but it's 636 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,520 Speaker 1: pretty much defined as what will not permanently damage these creatures. 637 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 1: One of the biggest problems that exists within the technology. 638 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,239 Speaker 1: Then the Navy has is their long Range Sonar UM 639 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,279 Speaker 1: and it's the thing it's it's a tool called surveillance 640 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:41,759 Speaker 1: towed a ray sensor system low frequency active UH that 641 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,959 Speaker 1: the WU is not at the end. That's also known 642 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,920 Speaker 1: it's also known as curtas l F A or surtas 643 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:53,279 Speaker 1: l F A and UM. Once once lowered from the 644 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,840 Speaker 1: massive reel, which is okay, you have to imagine this 645 00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 1: thing being lowered down into the water a bit um 646 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 1: one of these massive spools of like heavy wire. So 647 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,640 Speaker 1: it's this thing that you lower down into the water. 648 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: And this system has what what they're what are what 649 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,960 Speaker 1: are called or what they're calling source projectors. UH, they're 650 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: eighteen of them. There are these huge you can think 651 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:23,440 Speaker 1: of them like if you're don't let's imagine I'm just 652 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 1: thinking about a car maybe with subwhiffers in it or something. 653 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:27,960 Speaker 1: Or if you're in a concert and you see the 654 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,960 Speaker 1: big speakers that are designed specifically to send out the 655 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,320 Speaker 1: low frequency stuff. Imagine that there are eighteen of those 656 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 1: attached to this thing and they just begin emitting the 657 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 1: loudest low frequency tones that you can imagine. And the 658 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,200 Speaker 1: big problem with all of that is that the frequencies, 659 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,440 Speaker 1: those the low ones that they're emanating there UM around 660 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,799 Speaker 1: a hundred to five hundred hurts also happened to be 661 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,120 Speaker 1: the sweet spot by what what you'd call the goldilocks 662 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,799 Speaker 1: zone for a lot of marine life. It's not too high, 663 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 1: it's not too low. It's right where they want it, 664 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:08,400 Speaker 1: and we're just embarding that frequency level with our stuff. 665 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,759 Speaker 1: That's where they communicate, right, Yes, it's it's like um 666 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 1: if you think with humans. Noel correcting me if I'm 667 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:22,200 Speaker 1: wrong here, but the audible human vocal range has a 668 00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,399 Speaker 1: pretty sweet you know, it's it goes from pretty low 669 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,520 Speaker 1: too pretty high. When it's it's one hundred to one 670 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:33,000 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty hurts specifically, is where that part of 671 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 1: our that's the frequency range that our voices fill up 672 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 1: and that we are able to hear. And and that's 673 00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,200 Speaker 1: something we think about when we're producing podcasts. Um is 674 00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,560 Speaker 1: we eq things, you know, a k A filter out 675 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,040 Speaker 1: and boost certain frequencies to make things as intelligible as 676 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 1: possible on various systems and from far away. So we 677 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,800 Speaker 1: tend to scoop out a lot of those low frequencies 678 00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:57,239 Speaker 1: can create kind of mud and make it a little 679 00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,319 Speaker 1: hard to understand. But it would be the equivalent of 680 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,799 Speaker 1: if that sweet spot of a hundred hurts that we 681 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,439 Speaker 1: need to be able to hear for the human voice 682 00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:10,359 Speaker 1: to have conversations. Something was just generating that frequency at 683 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,520 Speaker 1: a loud volume to the point where we couldn't hear 684 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,000 Speaker 1: over it, and it was just clogging up our communications ability, 685 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,880 Speaker 1: and it was happening constantly, like some form of tenitis 686 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,200 Speaker 1: that we all had in our ears at the same time. 687 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,960 Speaker 1: It would make you go insane. You would become an 688 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,799 Speaker 1: insane person. It would be chaos, absolute misery. I would 689 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 1: also put it this way, imagine you don't know where 690 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,800 Speaker 1: these things are coming from. You have no idea. You 691 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,600 Speaker 1: you know that there are odd things that look like 692 00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,280 Speaker 1: creatures on the surface of the water or under the surface, 693 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,040 Speaker 1: and you know that they're very loud and they're admitting 694 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:51,080 Speaker 1: these things. Right. Um, but yeah, to the insanity. If 695 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:52,960 Speaker 1: you don't see that stuff, or if you don't have 696 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,680 Speaker 1: another sensory input confirming that, it's almost like you're hearing voices. 697 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:04,000 Speaker 1: Oh wow, Yeah, an understanding of like what that is, right, 698 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:09,480 Speaker 1: I mean, Um, that's wow. That's a really rough way 699 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,880 Speaker 1: to look at it. But well that's why, that's why 700 00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:16,040 Speaker 1: some experts have said, you know, marine mammals perceived the 701 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:21,000 Speaker 1: noises from this CERTs lf A thing as a threat, 702 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,520 Speaker 1: and they react as if it's a threat. Understandably. Right now, 703 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:30,320 Speaker 1: environmentalists want the Navy to limit what they call explosions 704 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:35,040 Speaker 1: and sonar in areas where it's known that marine animals 705 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,680 Speaker 1: will gather annually at certain parts of the year. We 706 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,400 Speaker 1: have to point out that these are these are not 707 00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,840 Speaker 1: son are activities that are used in acts of war 708 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,759 Speaker 1: or hot conflicts. The vast majority of these things come 709 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:54,120 Speaker 1: about from testing or or scenario gaming. Well that makes sense. 710 00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,000 Speaker 1: You got to try it out on you know, a 711 00:46:56,080 --> 00:47:01,360 Speaker 1: sustained basis or trying different like you said, like different scenarios. Um. 712 00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,239 Speaker 1: It's interesting to Ben because the idea of limiting this 713 00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,200 Speaker 1: and regulating this, it's sort of a philosophical one where 714 00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,160 Speaker 1: you have to like weigh is it worth killing some 715 00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:15,120 Speaker 1: whales for the progress of military supremacy, you know, is 716 00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:19,640 Speaker 1: it worth killing some birds to have cleaner energy? You know, 717 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,480 Speaker 1: I mean it's always you know, weighing these things. But 718 00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,719 Speaker 1: it does feel like with the current administration that we're 719 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:31,600 Speaker 1: in philosophically, protecting wildlife is going to uh, you know, 720 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,680 Speaker 1: pale in comparison to you know, having the the best 721 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:40,240 Speaker 1: military and the most powerful military on the planet. So 722 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,719 Speaker 1: you know, stuff like that I could see going by 723 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,200 Speaker 1: the wayside. And to your point, Ben, it already seems 724 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,120 Speaker 1: to be going by the wayside, right, I mean, I 725 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,400 Speaker 1: think that's a very good Pointnell. I would also say 726 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,600 Speaker 1: that we have to be we have to be careful 727 00:47:54,160 --> 00:48:01,359 Speaker 1: and realize that the US military UH tends to go 728 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:06,200 Speaker 1: about business as usual pretty often, regardless of who is, 729 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,520 Speaker 1: regardless of which political party is empower in a lot 730 00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,920 Speaker 1: of ways, that that machine continues to run, and it 731 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:19,000 Speaker 1: is a philosophical thing. Just to throw in some specifics. 732 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,759 Speaker 1: In two thousand seven, the US government did publish guidelines 733 00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,040 Speaker 1: for the level of noise for injury. UH. To be 734 00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,200 Speaker 1: on the record, they considered impulsive sounds at the level 735 00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:33,160 Speaker 1: of two hundred thirty decibels is the uppermost safe exposure 736 00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:37,640 Speaker 1: limit for all marine mammals, including beak toils. I was 737 00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,480 Speaker 1: just gonna jump in here and say, um, you know, 738 00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:44,200 Speaker 1: you know you were commenting on the current administration when 739 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,560 Speaker 1: thinking about this, but I would just say, these concerns 740 00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:51,160 Speaker 1: go way beyond any administration when you're thinking about the 741 00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,960 Speaker 1: national security of a country, any country, but specifically the 742 00:48:55,040 --> 00:49:02,919 Speaker 1: United States, UM can when considering military might versus wildlife conservation. 743 00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:08,160 Speaker 1: I think we all know where, you know, the status 744 00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:12,560 Speaker 1: quo that exists within any administration, where where the priorities 745 00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:17,160 Speaker 1: would lie you may getting reelected. Yeah, well, and that 746 00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,600 Speaker 1: I clearly agree with you about, you know, the military 747 00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:23,759 Speaker 1: being always kind of the the priority. And I think 748 00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,040 Speaker 1: when I was referring to the current administration, I was 749 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:27,840 Speaker 1: maybe thinking more along the lines of rolling back some 750 00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:32,480 Speaker 1: environmental controls and uh care for wildlife that I feel 751 00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:36,279 Speaker 1: like that philosophy can bleed even into the military stuff 752 00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,720 Speaker 1: and potentially make it even more of a double downing 753 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,439 Speaker 1: on stuff like this. Just with that attitude in mind, 754 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:42,880 Speaker 1: that's I think what I was. I was I was 755 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,360 Speaker 1: trying to say, but completely agree with you that you know, 756 00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:47,239 Speaker 1: this stuff is never going to be as much of 757 00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,680 Speaker 1: a primary concern or even enough in the public eye 758 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,560 Speaker 1: as we'll see with some court stuff that we're going 759 00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,120 Speaker 1: to discuss in just a minute, right to quote, uh 760 00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,040 Speaker 1: to quote H. G. Wells from one of his non 761 00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:04,120 Speaker 1: plagiarized works. Yes, I'm throwing some shade there at him. Uh. 762 00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,000 Speaker 1: Like they say in the Island of Dr Moreau, are 763 00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:11,839 Speaker 1: we not men? Meaning? Does this species not live within 764 00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:16,040 Speaker 1: a framework of law meant to make in theory everything 765 00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:19,880 Speaker 1: good for the most amount of living things possible. Well, 766 00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:24,440 Speaker 1: that came to a head on July fift a little 767 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,960 Speaker 1: bit of victory for the maritime members of the Spaceship 768 00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,920 Speaker 1: Earth when the ninth US Circuit Court of Appeals in 769 00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:36,960 Speaker 1: San Francisco, UH finally shot down the Navy's pretty self 770 00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:41,239 Speaker 1: serving interpretation as something called the National Marine Protections Act 771 00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,880 Speaker 1: that that act is supposed to prohibit any US citizen, 772 00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:51,960 Speaker 1: agency or organization from harming, knowingly harming, or through negligence 773 00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:56,600 Speaker 1: harming the creatures we've been talking about whales, dolphins. Let's 774 00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:01,400 Speaker 1: basically saying, look, don't club seals that that kind of stuff, 775 00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:04,440 Speaker 1: stuff that I think most people can get on board with. 776 00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,759 Speaker 1: But they had to go to court for it. Yes. Uh. 777 00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,320 Speaker 1: There is a wonderful article about the subject by Alessandra 778 00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:16,280 Speaker 1: Potenza from the verge Um talking about this very court case, 779 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,680 Speaker 1: and they found that the sonar used across more than 780 00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,440 Speaker 1: seventy of the oceans in the entire world that we discussed, 781 00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:31,040 Speaker 1: this low frequency sonar was operating under essentially an improper 782 00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,600 Speaker 1: let's license permit whatever I mean. You know, it's sort 783 00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:39,319 Speaker 1: of seems to me like almost a formality that the 784 00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,920 Speaker 1: military even needs a permit, you know, to contend with 785 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,719 Speaker 1: these pesky wildlife you know, organizations that are just trying 786 00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,120 Speaker 1: to you know, save the whales and all that bunch 787 00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,200 Speaker 1: of hippies as far as the generals are concerned. And 788 00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,760 Speaker 1: I am, of course editorializing here, but the court found 789 00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:59,080 Speaker 1: that a body of the government called the National Marine 790 00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:03,640 Speaker 1: Fisheries Service, which was the authorizing you know body for 791 00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:09,840 Speaker 1: the these tests, UM, wasn't doing enough to mitigate the 792 00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:15,600 Speaker 1: harm against marine animals, against this underwater wildlife. UM. There 793 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,080 Speaker 1: is a law in question here called the Marine Mammal 794 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:22,920 Speaker 1: Protection Act UM. To quote the act itself and and 795 00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:27,920 Speaker 1: the verge article UH is meant to provide for the 796 00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:34,319 Speaker 1: quote least practicable adverse impact on marine animals and their 797 00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:38,200 Speaker 1: habitats UM. And that the federal agency in question here, 798 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,320 Speaker 1: the n m f S, was not acting by the 799 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,279 Speaker 1: letter of the law in the way that they were 800 00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:47,080 Speaker 1: overseeing these tests. They gave this kind of blanket license 801 00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:49,319 Speaker 1: and then they sort of said, go with God and 802 00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,520 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, kill as many whales as as 803 00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,120 Speaker 1: you as you deem fit Uncle Sam in service of 804 00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:57,839 Speaker 1: our great, great country. Uh. You know, they didn't really 805 00:52:57,840 --> 00:52:59,640 Speaker 1: say that, but that's sort of what the outcome was, 806 00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:01,880 Speaker 1: because certainly seemed like there was very little oversight in 807 00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,120 Speaker 1: any of this. And so in theory, it's good that 808 00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,560 Speaker 1: it got shut down or that they were called to 809 00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:11,040 Speaker 1: task for it. Many militaries around the world have committed 810 00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:17,319 Speaker 1: to investigating, and we're I guess the most diplomatic word 811 00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:21,200 Speaker 1: would be mitigating their activities to protect marine animals because 812 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,920 Speaker 1: of course, again we're at the loggerhead here, we're at 813 00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:32,040 Speaker 1: the uh, we're what one politician awkwardly called the decision point. 814 00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:37,600 Speaker 1: And I think in his own autobiography, so do we 815 00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:41,319 Speaker 1: do we stop this stuff completely and therefore engage in 816 00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:45,879 Speaker 1: an enormous trustfaul the like of which humanity has never seen. Uh. 817 00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,280 Speaker 1: And the idea being like, hey, let's all just stop 818 00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,000 Speaker 1: trying to spy on each other and kill each other 819 00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:54,680 Speaker 1: with submarines and the weapons we can carry on board. 820 00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,520 Speaker 1: Probably not gonna happen. I'm not a big fan of gambling, 821 00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,719 Speaker 1: but even I wouldn't put money on that. So it 822 00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,399 Speaker 1: takes exist to the future. This is where we are at. 823 00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:07,719 Speaker 1: What do we prioritize? I guarantee you it is utopian 824 00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,719 Speaker 1: to think that, uh, and I'm using that in the 825 00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:13,640 Speaker 1: correct sense of the word. Is utopian to think that 826 00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:16,280 Speaker 1: every nation in the world would agree to even hard 827 00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:21,279 Speaker 1: limits on sonar going forward. Because if everybody puts those 828 00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,080 Speaker 1: hard limits on and you're the one country that cheats 829 00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,400 Speaker 1: or or you know, bends the rules, then you have 830 00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:31,400 Speaker 1: an immediate and significant advantage. Therefore, it would logically be 831 00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:33,680 Speaker 1: dumb for you not to do that. Well, it's the 832 00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:35,399 Speaker 1: same with like, you know, if if if everyone else 833 00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,400 Speaker 1: in the Olympics is using steroids and you're the country 834 00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:40,880 Speaker 1: that takes a stand against steroids and then you lose, 835 00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,840 Speaker 1: then you you look like a sucker. You know. It 836 00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,239 Speaker 1: kind of requires fair play on all sides to level 837 00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:50,080 Speaker 1: the playing field. And we have no guarantees ever that 838 00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:53,720 Speaker 1: that's the case. So we have to be as nasty 839 00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:57,360 Speaker 1: as we think are enemies are being. I don't know, 840 00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,239 Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a hard How do you how 841 00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:02,960 Speaker 1: do you act as a good steward of the environment 842 00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:07,160 Speaker 1: and as a good steward of science, I guess, while 843 00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:10,239 Speaker 1: also staying on the cutting edge of what everybody else 844 00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:12,600 Speaker 1: is doing, knowing that you're not always going to be 845 00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:14,640 Speaker 1: the good guy. And not to say that that's even 846 00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:17,360 Speaker 1: an impulse in our country, but it's a question that 847 00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:18,960 Speaker 1: I have, and I wonder, how do you do that? 848 00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:23,279 Speaker 1: Or the countries are good? What if you're not even 849 00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,839 Speaker 1: concerned with your enemies and you're just concerned with your 850 00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:31,920 Speaker 1: global trading partners. Because there is so much shipping that 851 00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:37,879 Speaker 1: occurs across the oceans every day, with these giant vessels 852 00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:43,239 Speaker 1: that are terribly loud, like we're thinking supertankers, all kinds 853 00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:48,160 Speaker 1: of different large ships that are carrying the goods that 854 00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:50,919 Speaker 1: you probably use every day, that I know I use 855 00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:55,080 Speaker 1: all the time, they get shipped across the oceans. Yeah, 856 00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,759 Speaker 1: let's not forget the word shipping refers to ships in 857 00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:00,840 Speaker 1: the sea. I mean, we're not like, you know, you 858 00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,640 Speaker 1: might get some special delivery freight that comes in a plane, 859 00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,560 Speaker 1: but by and large, the way you can carry the 860 00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:11,520 Speaker 1: largest amount of freight across that long a distance is 861 00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:17,120 Speaker 1: with massive, massive ships loaded down with shipping containers. That also, Uh, 862 00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:21,400 Speaker 1: that also remained the most cost effective method of shipping, 863 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:23,480 Speaker 1: which is which is key here. I'm glad you brought 864 00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:28,359 Speaker 1: up the commercial aspects, Matt. Uh. Those are arguably a 865 00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,440 Speaker 1: little easier to regulate, but in practice much more difficult, 866 00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:35,040 Speaker 1: because that's another level of global cooperation. I just want 867 00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:37,439 Speaker 1: to reiterate, going on record, I don't want to miss 868 00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:40,920 Speaker 1: this point whenever it's brought up. I think there should 869 00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:43,839 Speaker 1: be two separate Olympics. I think there should be one 870 00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:47,760 Speaker 1: where everybody signs a waiver, they're allowed to do the drugs, 871 00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,400 Speaker 1: take the enhancements that they want. Does that make me 872 00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,640 Speaker 1: a bad person? Debatable? Am I rights? Would it be 873 00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:58,240 Speaker 1: massively successful? One million percent? I did the math. Remember 874 00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:04,399 Speaker 1: how happy that statement made Spencer on Harmontown. I think 875 00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:08,360 Speaker 1: he said we needed to stop the recording and erase 876 00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:10,680 Speaker 1: all of that so that you could take that idea 877 00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:14,200 Speaker 1: and then make it happen. We could make it happen. 878 00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:17,920 Speaker 1: The future is now. I mean, let's let's try not 879 00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:20,880 Speaker 1: to destroy each other and try not to destroy the whales, 880 00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:27,000 Speaker 1: uh and and the brilliant marine animals. But this is like, ah, 881 00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:31,480 Speaker 1: I just I want to see superhumans devil's advocate here 882 00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:36,880 Speaker 1: that guys who really cares about whales? I'm sorry, I'm 883 00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:40,720 Speaker 1: obviously joking. Keep it. Yeah, no, but but I mean 884 00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:43,440 Speaker 1: you can see how that could you know, from the 885 00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:47,600 Speaker 1: most callous business minded person. What are the whales contributing 886 00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:49,919 Speaker 1: to us? What are the whales contributing to the ecosystem? 887 00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:51,880 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's many things, but again, like you said, 888 00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:55,320 Speaker 1: there's a lot we don't know about whales. Um. I 889 00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,400 Speaker 1: just could see that conversation happening in a back room 890 00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:01,280 Speaker 1: and the idea of shutting down the hippie you know, 891 00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,920 Speaker 1: marine protectionists. Uh. And how how dare they try to 892 00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,120 Speaker 1: stand in the way of our progress and our shipping 893 00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:11,840 Speaker 1: and our ability to you know, detect enemy vessels? Uh, 894 00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,200 Speaker 1: you know, as efficiently as humanly possible. And unfortunately that's 895 00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:19,280 Speaker 1: gonna be a thing. Uh. It's hard to change that side, 896 00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:21,160 Speaker 1: if if, if you can't figure out a way to 897 00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:23,920 Speaker 1: sell them or to co modify them in some way. 898 00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:27,439 Speaker 1: The very fact that they're majestic and you know, rare 899 00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:29,880 Speaker 1: and beautiful and just isn't gonna do it for a 900 00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:33,120 Speaker 1: lot of those types of folks. I'm just extremely happy 901 00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:37,720 Speaker 1: that as of now, the whales haven't figured out how 902 00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:43,160 Speaker 1: to create and wield weaponry because they would have a 903 00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:46,800 Speaker 1: pretty good case for revenge against all of humanity. Uh. 904 00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:48,680 Speaker 1: Just putting that out, there were at least a couple 905 00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:53,360 Speaker 1: of thousand years away from the man whale wars, so 906 00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:57,480 Speaker 1: that at least makes me feel safer. So I had 907 00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,600 Speaker 1: an idea. Um, they there's some things we have to 908 00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:05,760 Speaker 1: cut for time here. But I have a thought experiment, 909 00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:09,160 Speaker 1: a concept I want to give get your thoughts on, 910 00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:10,680 Speaker 1: and I didn't put it in the notes because I 911 00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:14,760 Speaker 1: want to surprise you. But it's less crazy than it sounds. 912 00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:17,959 Speaker 1: So the big problem right seems to be this dichotomy. 913 00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:23,080 Speaker 1: Do we do we risk sacrificing military superiority a ka 914 00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:28,280 Speaker 1: ultimately human lives? Uh? To save wales? Are these two? Is? 915 00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:31,720 Speaker 1: Is saving one hurting the other? That's that's kind of 916 00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:36,440 Speaker 1: the gist of the argument. But there is a third way. 917 00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:38,880 Speaker 1: There are several third ways. One of those would be 918 00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:44,720 Speaker 1: finding a viable, less harmful alternative to sonar. Sonar was 919 00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:48,080 Speaker 1: a very easy branch, an easy fruit on a low 920 00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:51,320 Speaker 1: hanging branch to grab. I guess something like that. Horticulture 921 00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:55,800 Speaker 1: is correct me. But but the there's something else we 922 00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:57,960 Speaker 1: could do. It's one of the reasons I wanted to 923 00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:01,440 Speaker 1: keep hitting the point that the technology we call sonar 924 01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:06,280 Speaker 1: already existed in the natural world. What if we made 925 01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:11,880 Speaker 1: these marine animals valuable to the military as a viable 926 01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:17,280 Speaker 1: replacement for sonar technology. What if there's a world where 927 01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:21,439 Speaker 1: beaked whales would do all the things that a sub 928 01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:24,960 Speaker 1: that a sonar device would do. I mean, they're they're 929 01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:29,280 Speaker 1: super significant problems with that. First off, that's very close 930 01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:33,320 Speaker 1: to talking about whales slavery unless there's some kind of 931 01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:39,080 Speaker 1: symbiotic relationship we can find. But secondly, governments have already 932 01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:42,960 Speaker 1: been experimenting with using smaller cetaceans for any number of 933 01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,960 Speaker 1: task So what if there's a world where we can 934 01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:50,440 Speaker 1: interact with the natural capabilities that already exists. What if 935 01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:56,160 Speaker 1: we stop building ships and start hiring whales? Bowland be 936 01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:58,800 Speaker 1: familiar with the arm Sure you are been the artist 937 01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:03,800 Speaker 1: Mobius French comic book artists. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, does 938 01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:07,320 Speaker 1: a lot of surrealists kind of like future escape kind 939 01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:10,680 Speaker 1: of imagery. Um, he's got some images with like future 940 01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:15,200 Speaker 1: whales where they're like harnessed with crazy weapons or things 941 01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:17,720 Speaker 1: like that, and The idea of this whale war is 942 01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:21,000 Speaker 1: fascinating to me, but UM definitely recommend people check out 943 01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:24,840 Speaker 1: Mobius if you're into weird art. I'm just imagining the 944 01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:28,840 Speaker 1: horizon zero down version of whales, where there are these 945 01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:33,240 Speaker 1: robotic creatures that do kind of what you're talking about, 946 01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:37,439 Speaker 1: but also serve some other purpose for humanity. UM, because 947 01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:41,320 Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know, I don't. I am pessimistic 948 01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:46,600 Speaker 1: that we'd be able to change enough to actually truly 949 01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:52,240 Speaker 1: save the world's population. Of of citations, some are, some 950 01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:55,440 Speaker 1: are on the rebound, though. A couple of species of 951 01:01:55,480 --> 01:02:00,280 Speaker 1: whales have been documented to have their population in cre seen. 952 01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:03,560 Speaker 1: That stuff is always kind of depressing, though, because it's like, oh, 953 01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:08,040 Speaker 1: the tiger population in X region more than doubled. What 954 01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:12,200 Speaker 1: does that mean? Well, now there are three Like that's 955 01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,560 Speaker 1: it's It's an example. I'm just making up. But I mean, 956 01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:18,439 Speaker 1: we don't want to sound like we're doing anything other 957 01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:23,120 Speaker 1: than acknowledging this enormous dilemma. Is there a good answer? 958 01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,600 Speaker 1: I don't really think there is. If one country stops 959 01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:30,000 Speaker 1: using this, or if if one trading company stops using this, 960 01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:33,160 Speaker 1: the other trading companies are just gonna take take advantage 961 01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:36,720 Speaker 1: of that power vacuum. I don't know, Well, it didn't 962 01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:39,160 Speaker 1: mean this to end on such a down note. I mean, no, 963 01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:42,400 Speaker 1: You're right about Mobis. Those are great comics. I love it. 964 01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:46,600 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe less future whales than I remembered, but he 965 01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:49,560 Speaker 1: definitely has some stuff with whales in them. But uh, 966 01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:51,800 Speaker 1: that is a motif. You see a lot though, like 967 01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:55,080 Speaker 1: whales flying through the sky, you know, and like with 968 01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:58,080 Speaker 1: like saddles or something like that, and like lasers. And 969 01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:00,400 Speaker 1: then there was that thing in Futurama's too believe there 970 01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:02,960 Speaker 1: was a space whale in one of those movies that 971 01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,720 Speaker 1: they put out, um near the end of the run 972 01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:08,880 Speaker 1: of that show. But uh, whales are no whales. Check 973 01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:13,160 Speaker 1: out Mobius The Air Tight Garage is a really cool collection. UM. 974 01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:17,960 Speaker 1: And he also he didn't he he did. He collaborated 975 01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:22,160 Speaker 1: with Alejandro Jodorowski on a version of Dune that never 976 01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:24,919 Speaker 1: saw the light of day. There's actually a documentary about 977 01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:29,560 Speaker 1: that called Jodarowski's Dune, and Mobius did the conceptual art 978 01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:32,160 Speaker 1: behind that. You can also see. Um. I've got some 979 01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:35,080 Speaker 1: of his table top books, or got one of them 980 01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:38,720 Speaker 1: that I would recommend. I think he's I can't remember 981 01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:41,640 Speaker 1: if he's the guy who also did this sort of 982 01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:45,959 Speaker 1: space whale thing, but he is. Uh. He he did 983 01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:49,480 Speaker 1: design some of the ideas behind a bunch of films 984 01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:53,240 Speaker 1: people have seen, including Space Jam and Fifth Element right, 985 01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:56,120 Speaker 1: so those are his bona fides. If that's what you 986 01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:58,600 Speaker 1: were looking for, folks, if you if you doubted us 987 01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:02,400 Speaker 1: here uh while yea Space jamma is in fact a 988 01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:10,280 Speaker 1: stone called piece of American cinema garbage. Sorry, you watch 989 01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:13,720 Speaker 1: your mouth, sir, and that's our show. We want to 990 01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:18,320 Speaker 1: hear from you. What do you think? What is the 991 01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:26,560 Speaker 1: solution to this intertwined Gordian knots of concerns, problems and crises. 992 01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:28,760 Speaker 1: Let us know. You can find us on Facebook. You 993 01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,000 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter. You can find us on Instagram. 994 01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:35,000 Speaker 1: You can find us as individuals, not just the show 995 01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:38,240 Speaker 1: on Ben Bullyin HSW on Twitter and Ben Bullin on 996 01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:41,120 Speaker 1: Instagram if you wish, you may find me on Instagram 997 01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:45,440 Speaker 1: exclusively where I am at how Now Noel Brown. You 998 01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:51,000 Speaker 1: can find me at Matt Frederick Underscore iHeart and you 999 01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:55,280 Speaker 1: can ask me directly, hey, why didn't you talk about 1000 01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:58,760 Speaker 1: air Gonna raise in this episode? And I will reply 1001 01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:01,680 Speaker 1: back to you cordially. We ran out of time because 1002 01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:03,560 Speaker 1: there's a lot to talk about on this is Why 1003 01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:07,880 Speaker 1: are you asking so many questions? Just minds your own business. Yeah, 1004 01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:10,880 Speaker 1: let me google that for you. Sorry, I don't mean 1005 01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:15,000 Speaker 1: to get aggressive. Okay, I feel better now. We also 1006 01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:19,560 Speaker 1: have a phone number if if you know your opprobrium 1007 01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:24,680 Speaker 1: and them over over air, gut array and over the 1008 01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:27,560 Speaker 1: current research we didn't get to uh just doesn't quite 1009 01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:30,080 Speaker 1: translate into the written word. You can call us directly 1010 01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:34,000 Speaker 1: where we are one eight three three std w y 1011 01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:37,080 Speaker 1: t K. Thanks for everyone who sang along. As we 1012 01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:40,360 Speaker 1: said that you've got three minutes. It will go straight 1013 01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:43,880 Speaker 1: to a voicemail. Tell us your story, tell your fellow listeners, 1014 01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:46,960 Speaker 1: let us know. If you don't want your name or 1015 01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:50,240 Speaker 1: your story on the air, we will respect your wishes. 1016 01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:56,280 Speaker 1: Be aware that one of us might call you back. Yeah, 1017 01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:59,320 Speaker 1: be very aware, because it's about to happen after we 1018 01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:03,360 Speaker 1: finished recording this. I've got a short list already from today. 1019 01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:05,120 Speaker 1: If you don't want to do any of that stuff, 1020 01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:08,040 Speaker 1: you can always send us a good old fashioned email. 1021 01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:10,640 Speaker 1: Even if we don't get to you or you know, 1022 01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:14,280 Speaker 1: respond back immediately. Know that we are reading your messages. 1023 01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:18,960 Speaker 1: Please know that uh You're doing our best to respond 1024 01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:23,560 Speaker 1: whenever possible. Thank you for for listening again, and write 1025 01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:45,960 Speaker 1: to us. We are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. 1026 01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:48,160 Speaker 1: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production 1027 01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:51,320 Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 1028 01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:54,320 Speaker 1: visit the i heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 1029 01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:55,680 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.