1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. Breakfast Club, Good morning. 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 2: Everybody is the DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne the guy 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 2: we are to Breakfast Club law La Roses filling in 4 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 2: for Jess was on maternity leave, and we got a 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 2: special guest in the building. 6 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: We have Frank mccaud welcome, thanks for having me. How 7 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: you feeling this morning? 8 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 3: Feeling good? And you pretty good? 9 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 4: Pretty much black and favored man. For those who don't 10 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 4: know Frank, te just tell them who you are. 11 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: To Mike Frankon. 12 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's start with the fact that I'm a father 13 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 3: of seven kids. Oh okay, fifth generation builder, born and 14 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 3: raised in a little place called Watertown, Massachusetts, right outside 15 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 3: of Boston. So you know, my my great grandfather came 16 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 3: here a long time ago as an immigrant and started 17 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 3: building roads when Henry Ford started building cars, and so 18 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 3: we've been building stuff ever since. And so yeah, I'm 19 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 3: I guess my work kind of identifies me in many 20 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,279 Speaker 3: ways because I've worked hard for a long time. I've 21 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 3: had the privilege of owning some sports teams, which are 22 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 3: is fun, hard work, but fun. And yeah, that's a 23 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 3: little bit about me. Who else I own a football team? 24 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 3: Called Olympic there must say French football club. We just 25 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 3: had a massive win last night against Leon congrats. One 26 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 3: man down after the four and a half minute mark, 27 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 3: so we had to play the entire match with ten 28 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 3: guys and beat them in their house three to two. 29 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 3: So that was massive for our club. 30 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: How was owning the Dodges? I'm sure you were a 31 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: Red Sox fan, I. 32 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 3: Would assume, yeah, growing up, that's right. 33 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 1: So how was that purchasing the Dodgers being a Red 34 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: Sox fan? 35 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 3: It was, yeah, it was amazing actually to own the Dodgers, 36 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 3: you know, in credible franchise. So look, I I my 37 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,479 Speaker 3: my grandfather was owned a small part of the Boston 38 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 3: Braves when they were in Boston, and but they left 39 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 3: Boston when I, you know, here I was born. Actually, 40 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 3: so anything I I knew about that was in a 41 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 3: scrap book. But I so, I grew up a Red 42 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 3: Sox fan, had eight times there with my family growing 43 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 3: up and then with my kids, you know, and so forth. 44 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 3: And they went on the market, and after being in 45 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 3: a family for a long long time, and I had 46 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 3: the privilege of of bidding on the on the club. 47 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 3: We were one of the three finals but didn't get it. 48 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 3: It was like an inside job. It went to an 49 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 3: existing owner, which was fine. I mean, it's that that's 50 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 3: the game, right, I mean, it wasn't like when you're 51 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 3: buying a team, you're not just it's not like buying 52 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 3: another company. You have to get owners approvals and all 53 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 3: that stuff, so they they decide who's going to buy it. 54 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 3: So anyway, it was disappointing, But on the other hand, 55 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 3: like massive privilege to to be bidding on my hometown team, 56 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Never did I think I 57 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 3: would be in a position to do that. And after 58 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 3: losing the bid, I went to New York here and 59 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 3: and met with the the the higher you know, the 60 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 3: leadership at MLB just wanted to make sure I hadn't 61 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 3: steped on anybody's toes in the process, because Boston is 62 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 3: pretty can get pretty rough when it comes to politics 63 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 3: and sports and all that. And they said no to 64 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 3: the contrary, would you like to buy another team? And 65 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 3: I said, yeah, I haven't even thought about it, but 66 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 3: I'll get back to you. And so I looked around 67 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 3: and Dodgers were on the market, Murdoch was selling them, 68 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 3: and the rest is history. We ended up buying it. 69 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 3: So it's sometimes you know, one door closes, the other. 70 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 4: Opens when you sold it? Are you did you sell 71 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 4: it to the group that Maddie Johnson was with? 72 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, So it's magic And yeah, I was going 73 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 3: through the massive divorce, ugly, humiliating, embarrassing and all that 74 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 3: and very public. There's a lot of things are in LA, 75 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 3: uh and sold the club to move on with life. 76 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: Now you want to buy TikTok. 77 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. 78 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, tell us about that. Why would you love to 79 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 2: jump into the social media world? 80 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 3: It's interesting. So when I was in LA through that 81 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 3: tough period, I got a little taste of what social 82 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 3: media is. Was like, yeah, and that was think about 83 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 3: this for a second. Now. That was I got separated 84 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 3: in July of nine, So, uh, my divorce was a 85 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 3: matter of, you know, a public thing for three years 86 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 3: and tough. Yeah. I had four at the time. Uh 87 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 3: and but for those four it was very tough. And 88 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,119 Speaker 3: uh it was tough all around and for everyone and 89 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 3: not just me and and but I I I watched 90 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 3: what was happening here and first of all, let me 91 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 3: is it don't feel don't feel bad for me. Okay, 92 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 3: I'm doing great. So that's that's not the point of 93 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 3: what I'm about to say here. But I I saw 94 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 3: this complete change in how we were communicating or or 95 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 3: sharing information. I'm not sure we were communicating. And you know, 96 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 3: Facebook had introduced a like button, smartphones were in everybody's hands. 97 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 3: So all this, like this wild wild West was it 98 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 3: was appearing right before our eyes. And so I was, 99 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 3: as I said, I felt a sting of all that 100 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 3: because and you know what, I felt like a guy 101 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 3: with a watching my house burn down with a little 102 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 3: garden hose with low water pressure, Like I'm supposed to 103 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 3: put that fire out. It's impossible. So and I said, 104 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 3: you know to myself at the time, while this is 105 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 3: it in the direction it's going, this is going to 106 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 3: take us all down. This is going to just destroy 107 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 3: everything we love. 108 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 4: This is an nine when you felt it like that? 109 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, nine, ten, eleven, twelve. So it was a three 110 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 3: year period where I got a glimpse at something, and 111 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 3: little did I know that I'd be here ten plus 112 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 3: years later talking to you about this. But I saw that. 113 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 3: My first move after selling the Dodgers was to help 114 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 3: start a public policy school in Washington, d c our 115 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 3: Nation's Capital with Georgetown, my alma mater. We started that school, 116 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 3: and you know, I hope that, you know, maybe we 117 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 3: could get the policy making apparatus up to speed here 118 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 3: and out in front of the problem, so that this 119 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 3: runaway you know, runaway machine wasn't going to, like I said, 120 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 3: destroy everything we love. And so I started that public 121 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 3: policy school in d c And in twenty thirteen, and 122 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 3: it's a great place. It will be the best public 123 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 3: policy school in this country. I'm certain of that. However, 124 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 3: I learned after two three years that policy making and 125 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 3: the whole policy making apparatus is no match for big tech. 126 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 3: You know, technology is big, it's powerful. These companies are rich. 127 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 3: They have people all over Capitol Hill, you know, donating 128 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 3: money and so on and so forth, and it moves fast. 129 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 3: And tech could care less about democracy. Tech could care 130 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 3: less about truth or trust. Tech could care less about 131 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 3: our kids. It just optimizes for whatever. You know, some 132 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 3: technologist says, optimized for this. We have these algorithms optimizing 133 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 3: for crazy shit, and we're all suffering the consequences of 134 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 3: that right now. So it was five years ago, that 135 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 3: December of nineteen, that I had shifted my focus to 136 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 3: the actual infrastructure because we have an infrastructure problem we 137 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 3: have and I'm an infrastructure guy, and if we could 138 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 3: fix the infrastructure, fix the engineering problem, we could change 139 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 3: how this all works. So I launched something called Project Liberty. 140 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 2: I was gonna ask are they selling TikTok because I 141 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 2: thought at one time the government was trying to force 142 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 2: the guy to sell it, but he didn't want to 143 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: sell it. So are are they actively selling TikTok for 144 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 2: you to purchase? 145 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 3: Yeah? Great question. They the government is it has passed 146 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 3: the law that the President's signed that TikTok must either 147 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 3: sell the US piece of TikTok and byte Dance as 148 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 3: the company, or shut it down. And byte Dance is 149 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 3: resisting that, and so there's litigation right now. There was 150 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 3: just a hearing last week. I think the government's case 151 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 3: is very very strong. I think they'll prevail and Bytance 152 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 3: will have to either shut down US TikTok or sell it. 153 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 3: And our bed is they're going to sell it, not 154 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 3: shut it down. And we don't want to see it 155 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 3: shut down. There's one hundred and seventy million people using 156 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 3: it that enjoy it. It just shouldn't be wreaking havoc 157 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 3: on the world, you know, and you know creating the 158 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 3: harms it creates, and it doesn't have to. So I 159 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 3: don't want to be the CEO of a social media platform. 160 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 3: Don't misunderstand me. What I'd like to do is see 161 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 3: the one hundred and seventy million TikTok users come over 162 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 3: to a new protocol where each of us own our owning, 163 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 3: control our identity, We own and control our data, we 164 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 3: permission its use. It's not just scraped up by these platforms. 165 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,319 Speaker 3: Aggregated algorithms apply to it, and then we have a 166 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 3: lot of crazy stuff going on. We need people, and 167 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 3: this is my strong opinion, we need technology where we 168 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 3: own us again and we're in control of us again, 169 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 3: because right now we are not in control of us. 170 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 5: These these platforms are what's a comparable time of you said, well, 171 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 5: we own us again on the internet. When did we 172 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 5: owners our own info on the internet. 173 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 3: Before what I'll call the app age. So when the 174 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 3: Internet started forty one years ago, it was decentralized and 175 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 3: nobody was scraping our data, surveying us twenty four to 176 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 3: seven and taking advantage of us. And in eighty nine, 177 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 3: the World Wide Web started, and that's when our data 178 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 3: was up for grabs. That's when it all started, right, 179 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 3: Suddenly the data was out in the in the ether, 180 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 3: so to speak. Right, and a few companies, you know, 181 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 3: they understood that if you own everybody's data, you own them, 182 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 3: and whoever was going to own the most data would 183 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 3: be the winner, quote un quote, right. And so you 184 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 3: had a winner in social that was Facebook, now meta, 185 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 3: you had a winner in search that was Google. You 186 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 3: had a winner in shopping that was Amazon, and so 187 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 3: on and so forth. And what happened was this data 188 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 3: is don't don't think of it as this like amorphous 189 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 3: thing that doesn't mean anything. Your data is you. These 190 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 3: platforms know everything about you, more than you know about 191 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 3: yourself because they have hundreds of thousands of data points 192 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 3: about you, and so they make judgments about you. So 193 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 3: it's not just like where you shop or what you know, 194 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 3: you know what what what your interests are and what 195 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 3: restaurants of this that. It's it's how you think, it's 196 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 3: how you feel. So they're predicting. They have a they've 197 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 3: made an assessment of your personality and mind, so that 198 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 3: means they can trigger us, right, Yeah, and that's not 199 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:50,439 Speaker 3: that's not a good thing. 200 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 4: So who do these companies sell it to? And like, 201 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 4: how did they know that they should be farming people 202 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 4: with data? 203 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 3: Well, I think what they what they real essar is 204 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 3: that they had the data was going to be very 205 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 3: valuable and so let's collect the data and figure out 206 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 3: how to make money next. So they went into this. 207 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 3: They built machinery to basically extract and collect data, and 208 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 3: then they needed a business model to keep the company going, right, 209 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 3: and that was that was the ad so called ad 210 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 3: tech model or the attention economy. Right. Oh, if we 211 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,959 Speaker 3: know a lot about you, we can sell you shit, right, 212 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 3: we can sell you stuff. We can go ahead and 213 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 3: push ads on you to get you to buy things 214 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 3: in retrospect. That was that's like the benign aspect of this. 215 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 3: And what I mean by that is what they realized 216 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 3: is that it's not just what you want to buy 217 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 3: or where you eat, or what you like to you 218 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 3: know this or that. It's like I said earlier, how 219 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 3: you think and how you feel. So you're profiled. We'd 220 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 3: call that micro profiling. Right, You're targeted. So if I can, 221 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 3: if I know everything about you, then I can feed 222 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 3: you news content that is going to reinforce how you're 223 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 3: already thinking. Right, If I can, if I know everything 224 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 3: about you, I can get you to do things. I 225 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 3: can manipulate you. You know, Jack Dorsey was the guy who 226 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 3: started Twitter. Earlier this summer, he was at a conference 227 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 3: in Ostlo. He said, we are talking way too much 228 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 3: about free speech and way too little about the loss 229 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 3: of free will. We're losing what makes us human. You know. 230 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 3: I don't know about you guys, but when I was 231 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 3: at school, what I was taught was that the you know, 232 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,719 Speaker 3: what separates us from all the other species, animal species 233 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 3: is free will. It's our ability to make judgments, to 234 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 3: make choices, to live our lives, to have freedom, to 235 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 3: have liberty, etc. That's what makes us human. You take 236 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 3: for our free will away from us, what's all going 237 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 3: to look like then? And so that's why I started 238 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 3: Project Liberty. That's why I've launched the People's bid to 239 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 3: go ahead and move not to shutdown TikTok. We don't 240 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 3: want to see it shutdown. Move the user base to 241 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 3: this new protocol where we where we each essentially own 242 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 3: ourselves again, own our personhood, and we get to decide 243 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 3: how to share information about us two trusted counterparties, and. 244 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 4: You know, so scary about people giving up day free 245 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 4: will in this era. They think that they're doing it 246 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 4: by choice, but they're not. Like they're really just giving 247 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 4: it up because they're being influenced to give it up. 248 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 3: There's not a choice to it. It's a vicious circle. Yep, 249 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 3: exactly right, and it's self fulfilling it in that way. 250 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 3: And I hear over and over again, you know this thing, Oh, 251 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 3: people don't care about their data. People don't care about 252 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 3: their privacy. And it's like, what what if you knew 253 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 3: how much about you was in the public domain. Of 254 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 3: course you would care about it if you knew how 255 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 3: valuable this data was. Of course you'd want a piece 256 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 3: of that action if you But right now there's only 257 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 3: one choice, right, we have these big plays forms that 258 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,319 Speaker 3: dominate the By the way, when I talk about big 259 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 3: tech and all this, I'm talking about Internet technology. That's 260 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 3: what I'm talking about. I mean, technology is not a 261 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 3: bad thing inherently. Internet technology has has become a weapon, 262 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 3: and so we these these this evolution of how the 263 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 3: Internet worked from something that was decentralized, designed by really 264 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 3: smart people to make us all smarter share information, you 265 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 3: get smarter, advanced civilization, you know, and so forth has 266 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 3: become something just just the opposite. It's really making this 267 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 3: dumber and it's making us and it's it's amplifying bad 268 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 3: behavior and in amplifying meanness not goodness. 269 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 4: What is Project liberty? You put you put up five 270 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 4: hundred million. 271 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 3: Right, yes, so yeah, that's the seed capital. Get this 272 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 3: show on the road, and it's to put to let 273 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 3: people know that it does not have to be this way. 274 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 3: The Internet could operate differently and we could each own ourselves, 275 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 3: our identity, our data, can control who gets to see what, 276 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 3: just like we used to do in the world pre internet. Right, 277 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 3: there was a world before the Internet where people got 278 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 3: to decide what information they shared about themselves with other 279 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 3: human beings. And so you know, you you didn't share 280 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 3: a lot with a stranger. You shared a whole lot 281 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 3: with your most intimate relationships. Right, So we have an 282 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 3: Internet that doesn't operate like that at all. As a 283 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 3: matter of fact, you don't even know if it's another 284 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 3: person on the Internet because it could be a machine, 285 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 3: a fake person. You know this, and that, so we 286 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 3: need to get it, get the Internet to operate like 287 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 3: the world. The world operates when it's coherent, which is, 288 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 3: you know, restore truth it, let people, let people be 289 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 3: in control of their lives, have real people using the Internet, 290 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 3: not a bunch of fake in phoniness. And then we, 291 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 3: by the way, this still be bad behavior. They'll still 292 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 3: be bad actors. Tech, better tech is not going to 293 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 3: take care of all the problems in the world. But 294 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 3: better tech that puts us in charge of our own 295 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 3: all of our own data and our being and our personhood, 296 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 3: then puts us in charge of us again, and we're 297 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 3: accountable for our own bad behavior. 298 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: Or realistically? Is that real though? 299 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 2: You know, because let's say, you know, let's say you 300 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 2: purchase TikTok and you do that with TikTok, with all 301 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 2: these other platforms, whether it's Facebook, whether it's Instagram, whether 302 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 2: it's elon chs, elon musks X, is it realistically can 303 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 2: get back to a place where we have our privacy back. 304 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: I mean it's to the point now where everything is open. 305 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: I mean you can pull up court cases, you can 306 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 2: pull up somebody's house address, you can pull up so 307 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 2: many different things. 308 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: Way before you absolutely positively couldn't. But is that real? 309 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, totally real. I'll tell you why. You know, five 310 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 3: years ago when we started this project, if I was 311 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 3: having this conversation with you, I guarantee you when I 312 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 3: left this room, you'd say, out of his mind, not 313 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 3: gonna happen. Right, impossible? Uh three years ago, two and 314 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 3: a half years ago. And by the way, you say 315 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 3: it was impossible because it's too complicated the tech and 316 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 3: nobody's ever going to change. Who gives a shit anyway, 317 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 3: right because five years ago people weren't focused the way 318 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,479 Speaker 3: they are now. Two and a half years ago we 319 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 3: were able to actually push the tech out and say, 320 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 3: see it works. So we have over a million, almost 321 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 3: moving towards a million and a half people on this 322 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 3: new Internet. I'm talking about this upgraded Internet using it. 323 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 3: So what does that say to me? The tech works? 324 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 3: We can have better technology. The Internet only works the 325 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 3: way it works now because of some engineering decisions. It 326 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 3: can work differently, and if we decide to go to 327 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 3: that alternative, to that upgraded version, then it works. It's 328 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 3: just all a matter scale, right, So now we know 329 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 3: the tech can work. So what we're left with is 330 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,439 Speaker 3: this issue of how do you get people to migrate? Okay, 331 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 3: and I think people don't migrate until they realize there's 332 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 3: a problem. And the other thing that's happened in the 333 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 3: last couple of years is the problem is now surfaced, 334 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 3: hasn't it. People are seeing how bad this technology is. 335 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 3: They're seeing the harm to you know, you pick your problem. 336 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 3: You know, how are we doing with democracy right? How 337 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 3: we doing with our our ability to govern ourselves? How 338 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 3: are we doing with the information ecosystem? How we doing 339 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 3: with real information versus fake shit? How we doing with 340 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 3: a trust and truth? How are we doing with protecting kids. 341 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 3: It's just people are seeing it because they're hearing ten 342 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 3: stories a day about the the the harms. So are 343 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 3: we going to just sit here and say, well, yeah, 344 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,199 Speaker 3: I got my phone, I'm addicted to it. It's free, 345 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 3: so whatever. Or do we kind of show up and say, 346 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 3: you know what, this is madness, it doesn't have to 347 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 3: be this way. Let's fix it and get people to 348 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 3: migrate to a new place. And so the TikTok thing, 349 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 3: for me, look, I've been working on this for a 350 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 3: long time. I didn't know TikTok was going to have 351 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 3: to be sold or you know. And I wrote a 352 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 3: book on this called Our biggest came out a few 353 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 3: months ago. I didn't know TikTok was going to be 354 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 3: you know, legislation was going to be passed. It's to me, 355 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 3: it's an opportunity, a fantastic one, to take a problem 356 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 3: to turn it into a solution. 357 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 5: How's my ask? So all that is great, and in 358 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 5: the perfect world it would be amazing. But you know, 359 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 5: the data is being moved around the way it is 360 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 5: because they make money, right, So as a business person, 361 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 5: how do you speak to the money that isn't going 362 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 5: to be made? Or is there a way to still 363 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 5: make money even though we would own our own data 364 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 5: and I get to pick and choose when you can 365 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,880 Speaker 5: put it where, Like, how does the how's money made? 366 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 3: Well, I'm going to tell you that more money will 367 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 3: be made because more people will be making money. And 368 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 3: so it's not like the data isn't valuable, and it's 369 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 3: not like we're not going to use data to solve 370 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 3: big problems. And to you know, they'll still be shopping 371 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 3: and searching and social on this internet. The difference will 372 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 3: be you'll decide who to share your information with and 373 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 3: on what terms. So imagine an internet we're rather than 374 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 3: clicking you know, stupidly on the terms and conditions of 375 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 3: use of these big platforms. You know, the cookies that 376 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 3: we all just click on because they're annoying. Okay, imagine 377 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 3: an Internet where the new apps and there'll be millions 378 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 3: of them, click on your terms of conditions of use 379 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 3: you say, sure, you could use my data, but pay me, right, 380 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 3: So we're what we're saying is that there will be advertising, 381 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 3: there will be commerce, there will be business. There has 382 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 3: to be for this to be realistic. Otherwise it's just 383 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 3: like sounds good but will never happen type of projund Right, So, 384 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 3: but don't once you prefer an Internet where, rather than 385 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 3: being targeted all day long and have stuff pushed on, 386 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 3: you have an Internet where you signal that you want 387 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 3: to buy something. You say, I'm this person, I'm a 388 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 3: real person. You could be anonymous until you contract, right, 389 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 3: and I want to buy something. That's more valuable to advertisers. 390 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 3: That's more valuable to companies selling things than just surveilling 391 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 3: all of us and guessing that you want something and 392 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 3: hoping that you want something. Do you know a third 393 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 3: of all the money that spent on the Internet in 394 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 3: the advertiser economy is complete wasted. It's either scam scam 395 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 3: artists or just misdirected or not. Why are we doing this? 396 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 3: Why are we in what world do we think that 397 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 3: being surveiled twenty four hours a day is a is 398 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 3: a reasonable thing. It's it's not so there's going to 399 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 3: be business. Last thing, I'll just say, you know, I 400 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 3: tell this story all the time. I said, Pretend I'm 401 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 3: the Postmaster General, I'm in charge of the post office, 402 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 3: and I say to you, I'm going to deliver your 403 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 3: mail from now on for free, no stamps. Say okay, 404 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 3: what's the deal. All right, I'm going to put a 405 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 3: camera and a listening device in every room of your house, 406 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 3: in your car, in your place of business, and I'm 407 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 3: going to surveil you twenty four seven. You say, well, 408 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 3: that is super creepy. You say one other thing. I'm 409 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 3: going to open your mail. I'm going to read it, 410 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 3: and everything I learn is now mine. Your relationships, your thoughts, 411 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 3: your ideas, your feelings, even your most intimate ones, they're 412 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 3: now mine. You say, that's it's creepy and unfair. Oh 413 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 3: and while I'm at it, I'm gonna read your fourteen 414 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 3: year old daughter's diary. And when I see she's a 415 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 3: little bit concerned about her weight, I'm gonna send her 416 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 3: stuff to make her feel worse. I'm gonna send her 417 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 3: stuff that she can buy so I can profit from 418 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 3: making her feel worse. And I'm gonna send her stuff 419 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 3: to show her how to hurt herself, wow and cut herself. Right, 420 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 3: that's the Internet we have today. I think you'd say, 421 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 3: you know, keep your idea. I'll pay for my stamps. 422 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 3: And so the point is, we have something that's incredibly predatory, 423 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 3: incredibly exploitive, and we need to get it back under 424 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 3: control so that we can go and lead our lives 425 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 3: and protect our kids and like have some sense of 426 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 3: what's what's fact, what's fiction, what's truth? Without truth, there's 427 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,199 Speaker 3: no trust without trust, there's no society as we know it. 428 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 3: And it's so it's all pretty basic stuff. 429 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 4: I got three final questions if you've got time, I'm one, Uh, 430 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 4: what's the first thing you would do if you acquire 431 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 4: TikTok to make it safe for people? 432 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 3: Move the users to a new protocol, which is simple protocol. 433 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 3: We own and control your identity and your and your data. 434 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 3: So it's a permission based Internet. Now, all of the 435 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 3: good stuff of TikTok still happens. The user experience is 436 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 3: very similar. 437 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: So you won't take away to dance, and you won't 438 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:13,199 Speaker 1: take away to the thing. 439 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 3: People can dance all day long. It's all good. It's 440 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 3: just it's just not. I don't want people think they're 441 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 3: just dancing and having fun. But at the same time, 442 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 3: somebody's scraping all that information about them and using it 443 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 3: in harmful ways. Right, So that's the the that's the 444 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 3: thing here that we want to eliminate. So that that's 445 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 3: that's the first thing. 446 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 4: And what can everyday people do right now to support 447 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 4: or help make the change you're trying to make. 448 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 3: Go to the go to the people's bid dot com, 449 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 3: the people's bid dot com and join the fight, Get 450 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 3: involved and just in in that involvement. May be that 451 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 3: you want to invest that involvement. May be you can 452 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 3: socialize it at your church. It may be socialized it 453 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 3: at your kid you know, at your kids school on 454 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 3: the on the sideline of the football field. It may 455 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 3: be that you want to volunteer and get involved because 456 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 3: we eventually we're gonna have to have a million people 457 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 3: show up and washing it right and say, you know, 458 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 3: you've got to stop this nonsense. And because the CEOs 459 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 3: of these tech companies, we now know and they know 460 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 3: that there's a problem here, right, how many more, how 461 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 3: many more conversations that we're going to have where they 462 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 3: go in front of Congress and they testify and lie 463 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 3: about this, and so if they were going to fix it, 464 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 3: they would have fixed it, right. So that's that we can't. 465 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 3: We can't rely on them at the moment. The next 466 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 3: place you go is to elected officials and say, hey, 467 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 3: please fix this. It's hurting my kid, it's hurting you know, 468 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,719 Speaker 3: my business, it's hurting whatever, it's hurting my life. And 469 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 3: you go to But sadly, these companies are all over 470 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 3: all over our elected officials. They're giving them donations, they're 471 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 3: they have lobbyists and all that stuff, and so nothing's 472 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 3: getting done. And and by the way, worse, our elected 473 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,239 Speaker 3: officials are using the same social media platforms that are 474 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 3: killing us, right, they're using them to get elected and 475 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 3: all that. So what are we left with? Well, left 476 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 3: with us, we're left with people. And that's what we 477 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 3: call it. The people's bid. Let's green Bay packer, this 478 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 3: thing let you know how the fans own the Green 479 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 3: Bay Packers. 480 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 4: That's my last question. What do that people's bid look like? 481 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's let's have people. Let's have people fix the 482 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 3: problem that others have creative rather than sitting near bitching 483 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 3: and morning about it. You know, we can sit here 484 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 3: all day long and talk about the problems. I am 485 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 3: not I didn't say a single word today that on 486 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 3: the problem side that you don't already know. Okay, And 487 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 3: this is this is progress because everybody's now known there's 488 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,239 Speaker 3: a problem. You can't change something until people look at 489 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 3: it and say we have a problem, then they're open 490 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 3: to change. So now the idea of the people's bid 491 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 3: is let's get people involved and create the future we want. 492 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,719 Speaker 3: And again I want to emphasize better tech doesn't solve 493 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 3: all of our problems overnight. You know what I mean, 494 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 3: You still have people, and people do Some people do 495 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 3: bad stuff, some people do crazy stuff, But you know what, 496 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 3: there's a lot of people that do good stuff, a 497 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 3: lot of people that really want things better. A lot 498 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 3: of parents particularly, I think, are going to be the 499 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 3: change agents here because they've had enough. They're there. This 500 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 3: is like you know, mother's against drunk driving type of 501 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 3: deal you know where sadly, you know, some parents lose 502 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 3: a child and they step forward because they can't stand 503 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 3: you know, that's they do it in honor of that child, 504 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 3: and that other parents who are scared of losing a 505 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 3: child to step forward. And then you have a movement, right, 506 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:33,919 Speaker 3: and then other people step in and say, you know what, 507 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 3: I'm I'm for this too, because you know, I'm concerned 508 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 3: about the lack of you know, the lack of trust 509 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 3: in truth in our in our world and in the 510 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 3: miss and disinformation. So you just you start building different 511 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 3: cohorts and people jumping on the bandwagon, and that's what's 512 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 3: going to cause change. And you know, you know again 513 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 3: they'll still be bad behavior and this and that. But 514 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 3: why why have an internet that amplifies all the bad 515 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 3: shit and doesn't make it at least make it a 516 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 3: level playing field for good people to do good things. 517 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 3: And the Internet is not the problem. It's designed so 518 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 3: poorly that it amplifies this bad stuff because it was 519 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 3: never designed for billions of people to be using it. 520 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 2: I know you got one other question, but one last question. 521 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,199 Speaker 2: You know they're making TikTok sell because of the Chinese 522 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 2: government having our information, right, But they don't care about 523 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 2: all the other people here in the US with bad 524 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 2: intentions with the bad information without information as well. 525 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: But sounds kind of crazy, you know. 526 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 2: I mean, it just seems like they should be stopping 527 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 2: everybody having access to our information, not just the Chinese government. 528 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 3: I'm with your thousand percent. That's project liberty right there. 529 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 3: You just described it's it's look the Chinese government, the 530 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 3: Chinese Commist Party, which is built on a different ideology 531 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 3: than free societies like America, where individual rights matter. In 532 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 3: China and they don't matter all right. So if you 533 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 3: have a government that is surveillance based, that is centralized, 534 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 3: that that is autocratic like China, centralized surveillance based autocratic 535 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 3: technology is pretty awesome because it's in harmony with what 536 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 3: you want to achieve. In China, the Chinese Communist Party 537 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 3: wants to know everything about every person, right because if 538 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,479 Speaker 3: you get off their reservation, you're going to get punished. Right, 539 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 3: So everybody tows the line. We supposedly have a country 540 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 3: built on individual rights, human rights, right, and we need 541 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 3: yet we have this, as you point out, the centralized 542 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,479 Speaker 3: autocratic surveillance based technology. Something's going to give here. You 543 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 3: can't have a set of principles that respects individuals and 544 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 3: freedom and liberty and choice and autonomy and permission and 545 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 3: all that and have technology which is, as it turns out, 546 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 3: more powerful than our democracy, and think our democracies going 547 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 3: to bend to be more autocratic centralized surveillance space. What 548 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 3: I want to do is see the tech bend to 549 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 3: respect the human rights. Think of your your data as 550 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 3: a human right, because it is. It is everything about you, 551 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 3: everything about you, and I can't emphasize that enough. It's 552 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 3: not just who gives a shit where I am right now, 553 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 3: or what I buy or what I eat. It's everything 554 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 3: about you, hundreds of thousands of data points. So you 555 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 3: and I have been micro profiled. Are you kidding me? 556 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 3: Would we ever let this government profile us to this degree? 557 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,719 Speaker 3: We say, out of your mind, no way. Why are 558 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 3: we letting these companies? So you're one hundred percent right. 559 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 3: We should be talking about this more broadly, not just 560 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 3: about TikTok, but let's but it's good at least that 561 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 3: TikTok is in play because and that people understand we 562 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 3: don't want one hundred and seventy million Americans data going 563 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 3: to the Chinese Communist Party. Everybody gets that, but I'm 564 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 3: with you one percent. We don't want that information going 565 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 3: to Silica Valley either. 566 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 4: This is going to start somewhere. 567 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 3: That's exactly right now. 568 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: Now what political season around the corner. 569 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,479 Speaker 2: Is there any I guess politician that's that's supporting what 570 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 2: you're doing, whether it's the Democrat or Republican side. 571 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: Is there anybody saying this is wrong or not at all? 572 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 3: No? Well, this, this this move to get TikTok to 573 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,239 Speaker 3: sell or shut down was started by Trump and then 574 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 3: it was continued by Biden. The legislation was by partisan 575 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 3: signed on by which is pretty amazing when you look 576 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 3: at how dysfunctional are our Congress has been right and 577 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 3: then signed by Biden. So this has been a bipartisan 578 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 3: effort to get because you know why, they know the 579 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 3: harms that this this technology has. And and I had 580 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 3: the privilege of seeing a portion of what was sent 581 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 3: to the US Congress as part of the briefing. I 582 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 3: I didn't think I could be more concerned about this issue. 583 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 3: It's pretty obvious I'm concerned about it. I've been working 584 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 3: on it for a long time. I saw that briefing. 585 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 3: The hair in the back of my neck stood up. 586 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 3: I I it was frightening. 587 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 4: Were you at that Texteo hearing back in January? 588 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 3: No? O, But but I saw this, this briefing that 589 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 3: was given to Congress, and it is it is amazing 590 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 3: how powerful this technology is to affect people's thinking. And 591 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 3: that's that's that's the part of it that I want 592 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 3: to get across here. It's not just that China has 593 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 3: our data. It has it it we're all profiled. So 594 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 3: China can get you to think a certain way about 595 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 3: things that are in their best interest, to get you 596 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 3: think think that way, and think you and get you 597 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 3: to think differently about things. For instance, a pro America. 598 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 3: Maybe they want to get you to think things, think 599 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 3: positively about the things that are on their agenda. Right, 600 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 3: maybe making us completely you know, a chaotic society where 601 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 3: people can't tell fact from fiction and truth is gone. 602 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 3: That's probably a good thing for China if you're out 603 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 3: to elevate your own ideology, right, which is centralized communist 604 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 3: type of If we want freedom and liberty and individual rights, 605 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,719 Speaker 3: we need to start looking at our data as a 606 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 3: human right. This is who you are, and we should 607 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 3: we should own us. Right, Even our DNA, by the way, 608 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 3: our biological DNA is now digitized, So what could get 609 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 3: more more you than your DNA? Right? So this this 610 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 3: is really, really, I think a key issue. And like 611 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 3: I said earlier, I didn't realize ten years ago I'd 612 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 3: be sitting here talking to you all about this. It 613 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 3: was just I had had an experience, open my eyes, 614 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 3: try to do something about it. And here we are. 615 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 3: And I'm actually becoming more and more optimistic every day 616 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 3: because you know, people like you are on this and 617 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 3: you're doing your own things aright to get people to 618 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:07,719 Speaker 3: understand that how social media is just killing us and 619 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 3: so let's fix it. It doesn't have to be this way. 620 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: Absolutely, Thank you for joining us this morning, ladies and gentlemen. 621 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 4: Frank McCourt check out his book to Our Biggest Fight, 622 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 4: Reclaiming Liberty, Humanity, and Dignity in the In and thet Age. 623 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 4: And if they want to know more about Project Liberty, 624 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 4: where did they. 625 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 3: Go Projectliberty dot io or go directly to the peoplespid 626 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 3: dot com. 627 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: All right, it's the Breakfast Club. 628 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 3: Good morning, Thanks for your time, guys. 629 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club,