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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Masters in

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Speaker 1: Business with Barry Ritholts on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: This week on the podcast, I have yet another extra

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Speaker 2: special guest. Melissa Smith is co head of Commercial Banking

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Speaker 2: for JP Morgan.

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Speaker 3: Previously, she was co head of the bank's Innovation Economy Group.

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Speaker 2: Really fascinating because she sees the world from a very

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Speaker 2: unique perch. Has incredible access to every aspect of both

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Speaker 2: commercial and investing banking that a small startup or medium

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Speaker 2: sized company and by medium I mean up to two

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Speaker 2: billion dollars in revenue might need, and that gives her

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Speaker 2: this really incredible set of insights into how these companies

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Speaker 2: are growing, what they need, what direction various industries are

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Speaker 2: moving in. It's really kind of fascinating because if you

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Speaker 2: remember back twenty five years ago, Wall Street and the

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Speaker 2: large investment banks and brokers were kind of accused of

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Speaker 2: moving up market and abandoning that whole middle section and

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Speaker 2: allowing private equity to get a toe hold there. To

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Speaker 2: their credit, JP Morgan has aggressively moved back into what

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Speaker 2: some people used to call, you know, middle merchant banking

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Speaker 2: or middle market banking. And I thought this conversation is

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Speaker 2: just a whole world that you don't know exists and

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Speaker 2: is in fact robust and growing rapidly. I thought this

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Speaker 2: was a fascinating conversation and I think you will also

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Speaker 2: with no further ado, my conversation with JP Morgan's Melissa Smith.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure

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Speaker 4: to be here.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you for being here. Let's talk a little

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Speaker 2: bit about your background before we work up to JP Morgan.

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Speaker 2: Bachelor's in political science from American University and then you

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Speaker 2: get a master's in public policy from University of Chicago,

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Speaker 2: not the traditional path for people in finance.

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Speaker 3: What was the original plan?

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Speaker 5: So I definitely thought that I was going to work

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Speaker 5: in the public sector. When I'm recruiting at JP Morgan,

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Speaker 5: I always get the question sort of how did you

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Speaker 5: get into investment banking? And I would love to tell

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Speaker 5: people I had a grand plan. I didn't really have

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Speaker 5: a grand plan. But my policy degree was at University

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Speaker 5: of Chicago, so it was very heavy econ and stats

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Speaker 5: and basically the same core curriculum as the business school.

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Speaker 5: And in my summer in between, I worked for Mayor

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Speaker 5: Daily in Chicago and economic development issues and as I

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Speaker 5: was doing that, I sort of decided it would be

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Speaker 5: even more interesting to come to the public sector at

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Speaker 5: a more senior level. And I also wanted to make

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Speaker 5: sure that I was going somewhere that would really leverage

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Speaker 5: the quantitative skills that I was acquiring at Chicago. And

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Speaker 5: I also thought it'd be a really good idea to

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Speaker 5: be able to pay off my undergrad and grad school life.

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Speaker 2: So that makes a lot of sense. But before you

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Speaker 2: got your master's in public policy, you have a little

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Speaker 2: bit of a different professional experience. You began ballet at

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Speaker 2: age four and dance professionally for how many years?

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Speaker 4: For three years?

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Speaker 2: Tell us about that that is not the usual path

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Speaker 2: to Wall Street.

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Speaker 5: Definitely not so. Yes, I started taking ballet at a

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Speaker 5: very early age.

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Speaker 4: That was my.

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Speaker 5: Original career aspirations. Starting in seventh grade. My poor mother

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Speaker 5: drove me one hundred and twenty miles round trip every

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Speaker 5: day to Washington, d C.

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Speaker 4: To go to ballet where I was from.

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Speaker 5: Left school early at noon, kind of got home at

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Speaker 5: nine or ten at night every night, and so, you know,

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Speaker 5: quite frankly, my parents were sick of driving me. So

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Speaker 5: I graduated from high school year early in order to

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Speaker 5: dance and sort of continue my dance training and then

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Speaker 5: dance professionally before I went to college. And my again,

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Speaker 5: my aspiration was to just continue dancing professionally. As you

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Speaker 5: may or may not be aware, you know, very few

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Speaker 5: people obviously sort of make it in that world point

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Speaker 5: zero zero zero zer zir one percent are ever going

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Speaker 5: to be an ABT, which is sort of the pinnacle

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Speaker 5: in the US American Ballet theater. And so while I was,

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Speaker 5: you know, good enough to be in a small company,

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Speaker 5: I was not going to be an ABT and I

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Speaker 5: didn't want to totally give up my education, and so

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Speaker 5: that's why I stopped.

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Speaker 2: I know people who were pretty far along that same process,

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Speaker 2: and as they've gotten older, they talk about like they

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Speaker 2: sound like old football players talking about injuries, their ankles,

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Speaker 2: their toes, their caves, their knees. I'm like, wait, no, no,

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Speaker 2: you guys are just dancing and they laugh when you

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Speaker 2: say that.

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Speaker 3: What was your experience like with that?

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Speaker 5: I mean, it was an amazing experience in that it

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Speaker 5: teaches you such a huge amount of discipline and you know,

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Speaker 5: takes determination, perseverance and kind of grit. You know, just

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Speaker 5: back to there's very few people who sort of make it.

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Speaker 5: You are in a sort of a siloed world because

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Speaker 5: all you do every day is dance. Is kind of

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Speaker 5: how I describe it. And I would also say, you know,

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Speaker 5: I can have this debate with people all day long.

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Speaker 5: I think there is no greater form of athlete than

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Speaker 5: a dancer. To your point, they are It is grueling

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Speaker 5: on one's body and really really physical, really really physical.

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Speaker 5: I'm in any way that any other athletics are. With

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Speaker 5: the added sort of thing on top, which is the

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Speaker 5: whole point of ballet is to make it look effortless.

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Speaker 5: There's no like grunting down the basketball court or the

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Speaker 5: football court, right, So it takes the same amount of strength,

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Speaker 5: but you add the control of your body on top

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Speaker 5: of that to make it look effortless. And that's why,

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Speaker 5: you know, sort of the athleticism is very unique. But

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Speaker 5: it was an incredible experience and I felt very lucky

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Speaker 5: at a young age to have something that I was

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Speaker 5: so passionate about. Not everybody sort of has that in

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Speaker 5: their lives at an early age.

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Speaker 2: And your comment about perseverance and grit, those are personality characteristics.

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Speaker 2: I don't know you know whether to call them skills

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Speaker 2: or not, but that will help you no matter what

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Speaker 2: you do. Absolutely absolutely, So ballet to college to grad school.

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Speaker 2: How did you stumble into JP Morgan?

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Speaker 5: So again, did not have a grand plan at the

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Speaker 5: time that I was in Policy School at Chicago. JP

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Speaker 5: Morgan's public finance team recruited specifically at the policy school.

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Speaker 5: Just back to it was this, you know, very kind

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Speaker 5: of quantitatively based and so kind of randomly went to

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Speaker 5: the interview to be quite honest, and was you know,

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Speaker 5: did well, was offered a role sort of back back

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Speaker 5: to my earlier point, kind of thought it was good

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Speaker 5: to get some private sector credibility at my resume, learn

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Speaker 5: something new, and I think probably as anybody coming out

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Speaker 5: of either undergrad or grad school thinks, you know, oh,

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Speaker 5: I'll go do this for five years and sort of.

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Speaker 4: See where that leads me.

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Speaker 5: And lo and behold, you know, have been at JP

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Speaker 5: Moore in to your point, you know, twenty plus years.

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Speaker 3: Now, that's amazing.

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Speaker 2: So you start as an associate, You're focused on debt? Yes,

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Speaker 2: was there an interest in debt? Was that just related

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Speaker 2: to public policy?

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Speaker 5: So I started in public finance, which is back to

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Speaker 5: that's why they were recruiting in the policy, So taxes

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Speaker 5: and bonds for municipalities. I did that for about a

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Speaker 5: year and a half, two years, and then I moved

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Speaker 5: in to deck capital markets for corporates, so kind of

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Speaker 5: an easy transition taxes and bonds to a corporate bonds.

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Speaker 5: And then I spent you know, the majority of my

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Speaker 5: earlier career, the first sixteen years of my career in

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Speaker 5: the investment bank in debt capital markets.

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Speaker 2: And just for the youngsters listening, twenty five or so

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Speaker 2: years ago, high rated municipal tax free bonds were yielding

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Speaker 2: five six percent maybe more, maybe more. Just those were

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Speaker 2: the before we start where I guess we're only halfway

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Speaker 2: through our forty year rate cutting cycle.

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Speaker 3: You could get tax re yield.

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Speaker 2: At seven percent imagine and a rated not jump.

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Speaker 3: Imagine what that was like totally all right, So so you.

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Speaker 2: Go from public finance, how did you evolve towards cohad

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Speaker 2: of innovation economy?

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Speaker 5: So was in a decent deck capital markets? I like

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Speaker 5: to say I grew up in deck capital markets, which,

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Speaker 5: as an aside, I think that was such a great

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Speaker 5: experience because you know, in DCM you're sitting on the

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Speaker 5: trading floor, right. Loved being in that environment because I

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Speaker 5: think it fosters learning so much more quickly. I literally

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Speaker 5: sat next to the managing director that I worked for

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Speaker 5: and listen on all the client calls and sort of

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Speaker 5: you understand much more quickly how to handle specific situations.

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Speaker 5: I also it was sort of an interesting dynamic where

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Speaker 5: you're on the private side, on the origination side, talking

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Speaker 5: to corporate clients and advising them about their next you know,

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Speaker 5: debt raise or their funding needs, but you have to

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Speaker 5: spend a lot of time with the traders who are

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Speaker 5: trading the bonds and the public markets, and they're obviously

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Speaker 5: on the public side, so you're sort of walled off, right,

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Speaker 5: But then you'd have to go over on to talk

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Speaker 5: to the traders, and sometimes you'd walk over there and

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Speaker 5: you need information from them, but they can't give you

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Speaker 5: any information, and so you'd walk over there and sometimes

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Speaker 5: they sort of look at you because they're busy, and

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Speaker 5: you sort of get this feeling, you know, get out

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Speaker 5: of my face, Well what do you want? So I

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Speaker 5: think it was an interesting experience because you have to

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Speaker 5: kind of, you know, gain some credibility with them, and

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Speaker 5: you know, ask insightful questions, show that you have some

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Speaker 5: sort of use. So I thought thought it was a

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Speaker 5: great way to kind of like grow up and learn

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Speaker 5: about the business. But again, was in DCM for sixteen years,

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Speaker 5: including three years that I was in London running our

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Speaker 5: European dek Coup of Markets business.

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Speaker 2: I got a lot of questions for you about Europe,

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Speaker 2: but we'll so back to that later. I'm looking at

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Speaker 2: my own handwriting twenty two or twenty seven years?

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Speaker 3: Is that twenty.

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Speaker 2: Seven years you've been there?

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Speaker 5: I think it's twenty six so going on twenty so

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Speaker 5: going on twenty seven now I feel old.

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Speaker 3: So it's not.

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Speaker 2: Well, what's more fascinating is and you started when you were,

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Speaker 2: you know, seventeen, so there got a big deal. But

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Speaker 2: you know, that's relatively rare these days to be at

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Speaker 2: any one firm for quarter plus century. What is so

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Speaker 2: special at JP Morgan? What's kept you there for so long?

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Speaker 4: Sure?

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Speaker 5: So first I would say you will actually find many

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Speaker 5: senior people at JP Morgan who have been there for

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Speaker 5: twenty years plus, and I think that is obviously a

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Speaker 5: great testament to the culture that we have at the firm. Secondly,

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Speaker 5: I would say JP Morgan is a large place, clearly,

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Speaker 5: and what that means is there are multiple lines of

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Speaker 5: business with many different things that you can do over

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Speaker 5: the course of your career. And generally speaking, we are

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Speaker 5: sort of number one or number two in everything that

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Speaker 5: we do, which which again is a great privilege to

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Speaker 5: work there from that perspective, so it doesn't make a

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Speaker 5: lot of sense to go necessarily to another firm when

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Speaker 5: you're sort of trading down, if you will.

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Speaker 4: In some instances maybe I shouldn't say that the way.

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Speaker 5: But and so I think what's cut me there is,

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Speaker 5: you know, a just the opportunity to do many different things,

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Speaker 5: learn about many other aspects of the business. And two,

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Speaker 5: you know, obviously you know very much appreciate kind of

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Speaker 5: the culture and environment at JP Morgan kind of back

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Speaker 5: to that's why people stay there for so long. It's

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Speaker 5: a very team morek oriented environment. You know, we like

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Speaker 5: to quote JP Morgan first class business in a first

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Speaker 5: class way. We take that very seriously and just appreciated

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Speaker 5: that about the environment.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about your dual role, your your cohead

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Speaker 2: of Innovation Economy and your head of specialized industries. Tell

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Speaker 2: us what each of those roles encompass.

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Speaker 5: Sure, so our specialized Industry's business sits within our our

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Speaker 5: middle market business, and just to define that middle market

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Speaker 5: sort of means in the commercial banking, right, so anything

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Speaker 5: from kind of a very early stage startup to a

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Speaker 5: company that's up to two billion in top line revenue,

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Speaker 5: so kind of a very wide wide readmit.

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Speaker 4: If you will.

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Speaker 5: About half of that business is the industry business that

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Speaker 5: I run, So I have nineteen different industry teams, so

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Speaker 5: bankers that are experts in those specific industries to provide

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Speaker 5: obviously coverage to clients in those industries. And I would

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Speaker 5: just say, I mean, we are just a big believer

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Speaker 5: in the the you know, better coverage and better that

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Speaker 5: we can much better serve a client when our bankers

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Speaker 5: have that expertise in terms of the industry. So we're

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Speaker 5: kind of very big believers in industry expertise and kind

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Speaker 5: of hyper segmentation in terms of covering companies at different

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Speaker 5: stages and sizes in their life cycle. So nineteen different industries.

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Speaker 5: Innovation economy is basically a part of that, and we

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Speaker 5: use that innovation economy kind of umbrella term to describe

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Speaker 5: tech early stage tech, life sciences, health tech, climate tech

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Speaker 5: businesses which are generally making high growth VC backs businesses overall.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's talk a little bit about that. I'm familiar

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Speaker 2: with a lot of the companies that vcs tend to back.

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Speaker 2: But one of the things that we've been noticing very

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Speaker 2: obviously over the past few years is the amount of

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Speaker 2: not venture income, but either private equity or private debt.

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Speaker 2: How does that play out in the companies you're servicing.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely two really important trends.

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Speaker 5: So I would say so within the innovation economy, to

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Speaker 5: your point, a lot of the companies tend to be

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Speaker 5: VC backed, but there definitely is growing growing sort of

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Speaker 5: crossover into into growth equity funds. I think in the

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Speaker 5: middle market commercial banking business as a whole, there has

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Speaker 5: been a ton of activity from the financial sponsor community,

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Speaker 5: so a ton of consolidation of those middle market businesses.

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Speaker 5: And when you just look at sort of the levels

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Speaker 5: of activity, like what are sponsors buying, it is within

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Speaker 5: that middle market space. So that has definitely driven a

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Speaker 5: lot of activity overall and something that we spend a

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Speaker 5: lot of time talking about with with our clients. And

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Speaker 5: then secondly, to your point, on the private credit direct

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Speaker 5: lending side, that also has been just a massive trend

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Speaker 5: impacting sort of that part of the business with these

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Speaker 5: companies looking for alternative sources of capital and direct lending

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Speaker 5: being a great, a great alternative. That's in fact why

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Speaker 5: we as a firm sort of developed our own direct

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Speaker 5: lending capability a couple of years ago. And I think

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Speaker 5: the great benefit of that is again we sort of

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Speaker 5: pride ourselves on being kind of financing our product agnostic. Right,

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Speaker 5: we can do a traditional bank loan, we can do

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Speaker 5: sort of a sort of you know, public execution and

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Speaker 5: the public debt markets, or we can do a direct

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Speaker 5: lending transaction sort of whatever best fits the company's objectives.

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Speaker 4: We can sort of do it all.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about that, because you know, part of

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Speaker 2: your job description is delivering a cohesive banking experience to

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Speaker 2: fast growing companies. So the two different divisions that you're

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Speaker 2: running head or cohed innovation Economy and specialized industries obviously

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Speaker 2: have to work together. What other divisions at JP Morgan

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Speaker 2: are you collaborating with?

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Speaker 4: Sure?

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Speaker 5: I would say just generally we collaborate across the firm

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Speaker 5: and everything that we do. So the commercial bank is

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Speaker 5: very broadly speaking, regardless of industry, regardless of what aspect

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Speaker 5: of the commercial bank we're talking about. We're constantly working

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Speaker 5: with our partners in the investment bank when companies need

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Speaker 5: obviously excuse me, strategic capital raising M and a advisory

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Speaker 5: whatever the case may be. So we're constantly kind of

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Speaker 5: working in conjunction with one another. And at the same

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Speaker 5: time we are often working with our asset management colleagues

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Speaker 5: when companies have you know, large cash balances that they

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Speaker 5: need to invest, and our private banking colleagues. And I

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Speaker 5: think a good example of that is within the innovation

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Speaker 5: economy kind of ecosystem overall, where because it is so interconnected.

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Speaker 5: When you think about VC firms funding you know, portfolio companies,

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Speaker 5: those portfolio companies having founders, they're oftentimes there repeat founders.

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Speaker 5: It's important that you can serve sort of the needs

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Speaker 5: of that entire, very interconnected ecosystem.

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Speaker 4: So bankers on my.

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Speaker 5: Team, on the Innovation Economy team are serving those portfolio

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Speaker 5: companies right But at the same time we're working with

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Speaker 5: our colleagues and asset management and the private bank who

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Speaker 5: bank the VC firms themselves and bank the VC partners

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Speaker 5: and the founders for their private wealth needs.

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Speaker 4: So our objective is to deliver sort of.

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Speaker 5: All the needs of the ecosystem, and that's why sort

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Speaker 5: of by definition, we're always working across lines of business.

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Speaker 2: So really what you're saying is from a checking account

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Speaker 2: up to a secondary financing, private debt, up to an

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Speaker 2: IPO and even beyond that if there's an acquisition or

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Speaker 2: a merger. You guys are full service not only commercial bank,

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Speaker 2: but investment bank.

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Speaker 3: There really is in any space that you.

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Speaker 2: Guys can't play in and service exactly what a fast

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Speaker 2: growing startup needs exactly.

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Speaker 5: You said it perfectly, and as I often like to say,

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Speaker 5: we serve companies from startup to IPO and beyond, and

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Speaker 5: so you know, again, we believe we're really one of

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Speaker 5: the few firms who can actually serve every.

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Speaker 4: Need of these companies. And again they're the founders themselves.

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Speaker 3: Huh. Really really interesting thing.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about middle market banking.

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Speaker 2: You referred earlier the definition of middle market banking as

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Speaker 2: up to two billion in revenues.

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Speaker 4: Top line running.

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Speaker 2: So that's this is not a little These are not

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Speaker 2: all little companies. That's a two billion in revenue is

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Speaker 2: a pretty decent sized company.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, and again we have teams focused on the smaller size.

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Speaker 4: What we call emerging middle market.

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Speaker 5: So think about that's kind of twenty million to one

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Speaker 5: hundred million in top line revenue, innovation economy doing the

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Speaker 5: high growth, you know, VC backed startups, and then a

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Speaker 5: bunch of different industries obviously within kind of that broader

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Speaker 5: commercial banking universe and bankers that are focused simply on

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Speaker 5: one hundred million and plus in top line.

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Speaker 2: Revenue's that's really interesting. And we've talked earlier about the

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Speaker 2: role of venture banking in this Where does that fit in,

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Speaker 2: Where does venture capital fin into startups, and where does

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Speaker 2: venture banking fit in as companies get a little.

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Speaker 5: Larger generally speaking, And our objective is to really become

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Speaker 5: the company's primary operating bank and trusted advisor from the

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Speaker 5: very beginning, right, And so as an example of that,

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Speaker 5: we now have a startup banking team that actually covers

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Speaker 5: companies at pre seed and seed stage, so oftentime, could

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Speaker 5: be before they've even raised an institutional.

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Speaker 4: Round of capital.

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Speaker 5: And at that point in time, their needs are very

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Speaker 5: sort of simple, if you will, right, They need a

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Speaker 5: bank account, they need to pay their employees, they need

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Speaker 5: to have a way to sort of collect funds. They

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Speaker 5: may need a credit card, just very simple banking needs,

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Speaker 5: and then obviously as the companies you know continue to grow,

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Speaker 5: those needs become more complex over time, including the need

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Speaker 5: to either raise additional capital and whether that be from

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Speaker 5: a venture capital fund or whoever that may.

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Speaker 4: Be coming from.

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Speaker 5: They may need some debt financing, and sort of on

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Speaker 5: and on and on in terms of what they ultimately

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Speaker 5: need to achieve their objectives and kind of become the

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Speaker 5: company that they want to become.

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Speaker 2: So what's the split between the companies you work with

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Speaker 2: that are VC funded, that are private equity backed, or

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Speaker 2: just bootstrapped by the founders themselves.

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Speaker 5: So I would say again it very it would very

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Speaker 5: significantly depending on the industries that we're talking about. But

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Speaker 5: I if just we focus on the innovation economy business specifically,

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Speaker 5: the vast majority of those are going to be VC backed.

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Speaker 5: As I mentioned, of course, you know sort of the

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Speaker 5: crossover if you will, between growth of equity and VC.

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Speaker 5: The lines continue to get blurred, But I would say

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Speaker 5: about twentysh percent of the business is sort of PE

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Speaker 5: backed and the rest is VC back. Just brought broad numbers.

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Speaker 2: Bootstrapping still goes on, or is that.

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Speaker 4: It does again?

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Speaker 5: And you see that you know, certainly at the sort

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Speaker 5: of preceed and seed stage and then but I would

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Speaker 5: say it's still it's a minority, right of the larger

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Speaker 5: companies within the innovation economy.

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Speaker 2: So I'm thinking about their balance sheet, what's the split

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Speaker 2: between how much is equity, how much is debt or

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Speaker 2: do you do a combination of debt and equity?

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Speaker 3: What does this look like today?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: No, absolutely so Again, the whole purpose of having a

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Speaker 5: partner like JP Morgan is that a we can sort

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Speaker 5: of help the companies think through what the optimal capital

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Speaker 5: structure is and back to sort of the point of

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Speaker 5: we're sort of product agnostic, depending on what the company

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Speaker 5: choose to do. Most of these companies that are high

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Speaker 5: growth VC backed in what we call the innovation economy

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Speaker 5: business tend to still be pre profit, right. They're growing

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Speaker 5: really rapidly. They're throwing everything back into the business in

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Speaker 5: order to achieve scale. So for the most part, their

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Speaker 5: use of debt is quite small, usually some kind of

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Speaker 5: small venture debt component, and we really want to work

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Speaker 5: with those companies to think about when is the right

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Speaker 5: time to put debt in their capital structure, depending again

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Speaker 5: on where they are and sort of that life cycle,

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Speaker 5: and depending on sort of what their cash burn looks like,

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Speaker 5: how close they are to the next capital raise, what

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Speaker 5: is the likelihood that they're actually going to be able

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Speaker 5: to raise the next round of capital. So it is

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Speaker 5: a combination of both, but again, the majority of their

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Speaker 5: capital structure is definitively going to be equity given that

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Speaker 5: they're cash burning companies generally speaking.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm assuming you're not involved in angel rounds

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Speaker 2: or very early seed stuff, which kind of leads me

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Speaker 2: to what sort of criteria does your team use when

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Speaker 2: you're trying to figure out, Hey, is this an early

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Speaker 2: stage company that we want to have a banking relationship.

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Speaker 3: Can we be value add to them?

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Speaker 2: Or they still too novel, too green, no business, no revenue, Like,

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Speaker 2: how do what sort of corterity do you use it?

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Speaker 5: So I think about it as as quite as a pyramid.

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Speaker 5: So there is a lot that we can do for

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Speaker 5: companies across, you know, all stages of their life cycle.

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Speaker 5: But when you're talking about the very earliest stages back

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Speaker 5: to they have fairly simplistic needs, right, and so we

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Speaker 5: want to be able to bank and can bank as

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Speaker 5: many of those companies as possible, assuming that you know,

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Speaker 5: there's we don't find anything from a reputational risk perspective

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Speaker 5: or something or an industry that we think is challenging.

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Speaker 5: But I think again, becoming their primary operating bank, helping

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Speaker 5: them optimize their working capital is sort of like the

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Speaker 5: biggest challenge that these companies are. Not the biggest challenge,

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Speaker 5: but one of the challenges that these companies face. So

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Speaker 5: we can bank in terms of providing a bank account,

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Speaker 5: credit card again, sort of payables, receivables, many, many, many companies.

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Speaker 5: As we think about which are the companies we're going

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Speaker 5: to lend to, right, which is a sort of the

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Speaker 5: next round of the pyramid, if you will, and that's

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Speaker 5: we obviously need to really assess their sustainability over time,

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Speaker 5: their ability to raise the next round of capital, because

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Speaker 5: when you think about venture debt, that's really one of

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Speaker 5: the gating factors. Is this company going to be able

443
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:19,920
Speaker 5: to raise the next round of capital, what's the cash

444
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:21,880
Speaker 5: burn look like to obviously get them to that next

445
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 5: capital raise, and how are they using debt to sort

446
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 5: of extend that runway overall?

447
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 4: So those are sort of the types.

448
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 5: Of things that we're thinking about when we think about

449
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,879
Speaker 5: which of those companies that are sort of credit worthy

450
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,640
Speaker 5: for us to be lending to and obviously support them

451
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 5: to again get to the next roundcap really interesting.

452
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 2: So I have a recollection of the era following the

453
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 2: dot com ramp up and then the crash in two

454
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,199
Speaker 2: thousand and it felt like a lot of the major

455
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 2: banks had moved up market, like the middle market was

456
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 2: kind of abandoned, so and lots of private equity seem

457
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 2: to have filled that gap. So kind of fascinated that

458
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 2: a giant bank like JP Morgan is addressing that same

459
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 2: market segment that generally people seem to have feel like

460
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,919
Speaker 2: the bigger Wall Street banks have abandoned. You're telling me

461
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 2: you're focusing in that.

462
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 5: Space absolutely, because I think, and i'll again kind of

463
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 5: focus on two segments, if you will, kind of just

464
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,159
Speaker 5: the broader commercial banking business and then the innovation economy

465
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 5: of business. Specifically, when you think about the broader commercial

466
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,439
Speaker 5: banking business, right, so not just high growth VC backed companies,

467
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:35,120
Speaker 5: but small businesses overall. Right, there are three hundred thousand,

468
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 5: you know, small businesses across across the country that represent

469
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 5: you know, thirteen trillion in revenues and employee forty million people, right,

470
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 5: So it is a massive part of the economy overall

471
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,880
Speaker 5: that we very much want to serve, and we've been

472
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 5: expanding that business quite substantially, mainly through sort of geographic

473
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 5: expansion over the course of the last several years. We

474
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 5: serve you know, thirty two thousand middle market companies today

475
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 5: across our commercial bank. So certainly, again there's back to

476
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 5: a lot that we want to do and can do

477
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 5: to support small business as kind of an engine of

478
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 5: the economy overall that we very much think is there's

479
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 5: an opportunity there for us, but it's also sort of a.

480
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 4: Responsibility right for us to serve those businesses.

481
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 5: I think on the innovation economy side, just back to

482
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 5: how I mean when you look at the disruption going

483
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 5: on across every industry today and the innovation, JP Morigan

484
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 5: clearly wants to be there to support those founders with

485
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 5: sort of the next innovative idea. And I always like

486
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 5: to point to the fact that you know, we've been

487
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 5: serving innovative companies literally for over two hundred years when

488
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 5: you look back at our history, right, we supported Thomas

489
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 5: Edison and the invention of the light bulb, the railroads,

490
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 5: the automobile like those were disruptors at that time. But

491
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 5: I think on the innovation economy business specifically, when we

492
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 5: first started, I'll give you a little history of the business.

493
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 5: When we first sort of started a dedicated focus. So

494
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 5: we had always served early stage tech companies in the

495
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 5: commercial bank, but just by sort of a local banker

496
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:57,360
Speaker 5: that didn't.

497
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 4: Have any expertise in tech. Right, they cover all industries.

498
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 5: So back in twenty sixteen twenty seventeen, we put in

499
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 5: place sort of a dedicated team of bankers. At that

500
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 5: point in time, I would say we primarily did. We

501
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 5: were very good in terms of our capabilities at serving

502
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 5: let's call it kind of series C and beyond right,

503
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 5: And when I came into this role, we very much

504
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 5: noticed that a founder right and for their company would

505
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 5: walk into a Chase branch, they'd open a bank account,

506
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 5: and then they would quickly leave that Chase branch and

507
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 5: move to one of our competitors who were very good

508
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 5: at serving early stage, high growth, early stage VC back companies,

509
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 5: and then they'd come back to us at sort of

510
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,719
Speaker 5: series C right generalization. So when I came into this

511
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 5: role sort of said, what are we missing? Right in

512
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 5: that very early stage in terms of our capabilities, Like,

513
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 5: let's skip that part where they leave the JP Morgan

514
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,120
Speaker 5: sort of franchise, right, And really what we were missing

515
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 5: was sort of a very simplified treasury what we call

516
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 5: treasury kind of payments bundle for companies to manage working capital,

517
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 5: a simple digital platform for earlier stage companies, and a

518
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 5: venture de capability. And that's what we really built out

519
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 5: sort of from kind of twenty seventeen twenty eighteen over

520
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 5: the course of the past several years, so that we

521
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 5: had best in class capabilities both for early stage companies

522
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 5: as well as late stage companies where everybody thinks about

523
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 5: JP Morgan is serving later stage.

524
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 2: So you mentioned earlier that you're expanding geographically. We'll talk

525
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 2: about international in a few minutes, but let's stay in

526
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 2: the United States for a bit. I think of JP

527
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 2: Morgan down on Wall Street, very New York based. What

528
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 2: geographies have you been expanding to. What parts of the

529
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 2: country seem to be very fast growing these days?

530
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 4: Sure?

531
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 5: Well, so I would just say today our commercial banking business,

532
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 5: you know, is in the eighty five you know, fastest

533
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 5: growing top sort of msas across the country. We have

534
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 5: one hundred and twenty five offices across the country, two

535
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 5: thousand plus bankers across the country. A big part of

536
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 5: that expansion over really the last decade has been sort

537
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 5: of California in the West coast overall, where we prior

538
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 5: to the Wallmu acquisition didn't have a ton of sort

539
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 5: of like retail presence and or sort of boots on

540
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 5: the ground there. So that's accounted for a lot of

541
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 5: that geographic expansion as well as you know, expansion into

542
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 5: the Southeast and sort of other states in the West obviously,

543
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 5: sort of moving from what historically, you know, decades and

544
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 5: decades ago, was more of an kind of East Coast

545
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 5: dominated business, and that's what's accounted for a lot of

546
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 5: the growth within the business as a whole.

547
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 2: What about down south places like Charlotte or Nashville, or

548
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 2: Texas or Florida.

549
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I mean when you look at again kind of

550
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,719
Speaker 5: depends on the industry, but when you look at the

551
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 5: innovation economy business and kind of where some of the

552
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 5: newer markets are. From a VC funding perspective, you are

553
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 5: seeing a lot of growth in you know, the Phillies

554
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 5: of the world, the DC's of the world, you know,

555
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 5: San Diego. I mean, certainly there's still like a huge,

556
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 5: huge concentration in kind of you know, the Bay area

557
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 5: and then kind of New York Boston area. But there

558
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 5: are cities. Miami is a good example for our healthcare business.

559
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 5: Nashville is you know, has exploed did over the past

560
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 5: several years. So again depending on the industry, it depends

561
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 5: on sort of where our concentration of bankers are. But

562
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 5: you know, back to that's why we are in one

563
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 5: hundred and twenty five cities across the country.

564
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,360
Speaker 2: So let's talk international. You spent was it a year

565
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 2: in London?

566
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 4: Three years?

567
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 3: Three years?

568
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 2: Yes, So you're an old hand there you go dealing

569
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 2: with Europe. So let's talk a little bit about what's

570
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 2: happening in the UK and what's going on in Europe.

571
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 2: How do you look at those markets? Can you play

572
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 2: in those spaces? Tell us a little bit about what

573
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 2: the work is like there.

574
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 5: Sure, So I would say from a commercial banking perspective,

575
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 5: we definitely support companies globally, and I do think that's

576
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 5: again one of JP Morgan's competitive advantages. As earlier stage

577
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 5: companies are looking to expand internationally, we can support them

578
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 5: across you know, basically any market they're gonna they're going

579
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 5: to across, you know, both Amya and a PAC. So yes,

580
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 5: we support companies there. And then we have teams on

581
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 5: the ground in Europe and Asia, et cetera that are

582
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 5: supporting early stage companies that are headquarters in Europe in

583
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 5: a PAC and their expansion into the US. So kind

584
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 5: of doing it both ways, inbound and outbound. And again

585
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 5: I think that that's something that with our long history

586
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 5: of operating in these various jurisdictions, helping to advise companies

587
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 5: on sort of the right strategy as they think about

588
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 5: those international expansions.

589
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:19,719
Speaker 2: Huh really really interesting. What percentage of your business is international?

590
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 2: I can't imagine JP Mugan feels like it's so dominant

591
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 2: in the US. What's the perception like overseas?

592
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 3: How is it?

593
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 5: So, I would say for our commercial banking business. So

594
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 5: let me separate this out of a moment. So again,

595
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 5: the commercial banking business the US is serving US headquarter companies,

596
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 5: but when they have a European sub or an Asian sub,

597
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 5: that clearly is a smaller percentage of the company's overall revenue.

598
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 5: So a smaller percentage of like the revenue that we

599
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 5: would earn as well, but we're supporting them globally. The

600
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 5: commercial banking sort of build out in Europe and in

601
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 5: Asia for bankers on the ground supporting European and Asian

602
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 5: headquarter companies is a newer effort, newer over the past

603
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 5: seven or eight years. So it's not as robust in

604
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 5: terms of our robust is the wrong word. It's not

605
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 5: as far along right as I mean.

606
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 2: It is clearly, clearly well established here for hundreds of years.

607
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 5: Hundreds of years, and we've been in Europe and Asia

608
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 5: for hundreds of years. Investment banking hundreds of years is

609
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 5: maybe a strong word, but for many, many, many decades

610
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 5: from an investment banking perspective. But the build out of

611
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 5: the commercial bank supporting smaller sized companies in those markets

612
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 5: is newer seven, seven or eight years ago, and.

613
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: That's a white space that's got to be wide open.

614
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 5: Now, absolutely absolutely, and again we're finding great traction because

615
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 5: there is so much obviously, as we all are well aware,

616
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 5: economies and companies operate in such a global fashion today

617
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 5: that a company sitting in Europe obviously has generally speaking

618
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 5: plans to expand in other parts of the globe, the

619
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 5: US being a huge market, particularly across tech and consumer

620
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 5: facing businesses, et cetera, So that connectivity is important.

621
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 2: And you said earlier from checking to IPO, how do

622
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 2: you think about the IPO market which has been so

623
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 2: quiet the past few years. We really haven't seen a

624
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 2: lot of companies coming public. How do you view this,

625
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 2: When might that change and how does this impact your business?

626
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 5: Sure, so, we are definitely optimistic on the IPO market

627
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 5: this year, and I think even you know, in twenty

628
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 5: twenty four saw a significant uptick in issuance versus twenty

629
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 5: twenty three. Obviously we were coming off a low base,

630
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 5: but we saw about thirty three billion in IPO volume

631
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 5: in twenty twenty four. We think that that could double

632
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 5: this year, you know, just given I think a stable backdrop,

633
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 5: more kind of confidence all around the markets. We've also

634
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 5: just seen a more stable you know, US economy obviously

635
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 5: so far, you know, knock on wood, feels like we

636
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 5: sort of took a soft landing right.

637
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 4: In the US.

638
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 5: We now have rates on the decline, which is supportive

639
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 5: of the IPO market. We'll sort of see if that,

640
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 5: you know, how that kind of plays out of the course,

641
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 5: of the year, and then I think, you know, the

642
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,719
Speaker 5: expectation of sort of double digit earnings growth in the

643
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 5: coming year is also very supportive of the equity market.

644
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 5: So we do think you're going to see a lot

645
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 5: more activity in the IPO market this year. And obviously

646
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 5: there's just a ton of supply that's built up over

647
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 5: the past couple of years of as companies have stayed

648
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 5: private longer and waiting for a better window to access

649
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 5: that IPO market.

650
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: So we're recording this at the end of January. I

651
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: don't recall seeing anybody's forecast for the year ahead saying, hey, really,

652
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 2: an expensive AI from China Deep Seek is going to

653
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 2: completely disrupt everything. How do you look at the not

654
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: just the technological disruption that we're all experiencing, but the

655
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 2: incredible pace as to how rapid everything is advancing.

656
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 3: How do you think about this and how does that

657
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 3: impact the day job?

658
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: How does it impact the work?

659
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 5: Sure, so clearly, you know, just talking about Deep Seek specifically,

660
00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 5: obviously just a huge impact on the equity markets.

661
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 4: You know, as you.

662
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 5: Saw a lot of a lot of some of the

663
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 5: larger names trading down significantly, we did see a rebound

664
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 5: sort of the following day, which was which was beneficial.

665
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 5: I do think, you know, AI is obviously going to

666
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 5: be continued to be a big story over the course

667
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 5: of twenty twenty five. There's also just a tremendous amount

668
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 5: of capital that needs to be raised to kind of

669
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 5: support that industry overall. And so I do think, like

670
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 5: back to sort of the comments about sort of stable

671
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 5: macroeconomic backdrop rates declining, all of that will be supportive

672
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 5: of the broader IPO market and the ability to access

673
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 5: those markets. Yes, we're going to kind of continue to

674
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 5: see volatility with some of these surprises, like the deep

675
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 5: Sake example, but it hasn't really changed our view, our

676
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 5: very constructive view on the market going forward.

677
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about some of your thoughts

678
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 2: on leadership at the bank and long term strategy. If

679
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 2: we go back five or six years, you're a managing

680
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 2: director and head of specialized industries. What types of firms

681
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 2: were you working with then and are you still working

682
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 2: with the same firms or has your portfolio widened since then?

683
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 5: Well, I would say that portfolio has widened in the

684
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 5: sense that we've continued to add various industries. So specialized

685
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 5: industries I think I mentioned before it's nineteen different industries.

686
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 5: There was some example, Yeah, so that spans a very

687
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 5: wide remit. So some of our very mature businesses, for instance,

688
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 5: our government business supporting states and municipalities and school districts

689
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 5: across the country. We've been doing excuse me doing that

690
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 5: since you know Japan worn sort of was founded. So

691
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 5: the government business are not for profit healthcare, hire ed

692
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 5: and nonprofit business. Again to very mature businesses. We also

693
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 5: have you know, beverage food and nag our M and

694
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 5: C business supporting some of the subsidiaries. Media, communications and

695
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 5: digital infrastructure very hot sector right now in terms of

696
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 5: the huge need for data centers and capital for data

697
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 5: centers overall, the innovation economy business again as I mentioned,

698
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 5: sort of part of all that. So those are some

699
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 5: examples of the industries that that fall within that that remit.

700
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 5: So again, when we first started specialized industries, I'm not

701
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 5: going to remember the exact number, but we probably had

702
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 5: five industries within that, right, and so we've just continued

703
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 5: to build out that dedicated expertise over the course of

704
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 5: the past several years, which we've just found great success in.

705
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 2: So how do you assess risk when you're rolling into

706
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 2: a new sector or specialized industry. When you're working in

707
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 2: a space for a while, you kind of learn what

708
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 2: the you know, where the minds are laid. When you

709
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 2: move into a new space, how do you approach that?

710
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 5: Well, I would just say it's not as if we

711
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 5: weren't banking companies in each of those industries before. It's

712
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 5: simply that we did not have dedicated bankers that only did.

713
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 4: That, right, So back to this is why we very.

714
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 5: Much believe and it's been proven out in terms of

715
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 5: the growth that we've seen in sort of the specialized

716
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 5: industries business. So we sort of focus in on the

717
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 5: sectors where we think it makes a difference for the

718
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 5: banker to have that industry expertise. Keep in mind, we

719
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 5: partner with the investment bank on the m and A

720
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 5: advisory and strategic capital raising and they are all industry focused, right,

721
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 5: But does the commercial banker need that industry expertise? Is

722
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 5: there something very different about the credit risk associated with

723
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 5: those industries that that banker expertise helps and that we

724
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 5: need sort of dedicated credit teams.

725
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 4: Again, with the focus on those specific.

726
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 5: Industries, is there something different about the product and solution

727
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 5: set for those companies that would require us to have

728
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 5: that dedicated focus back to kind of the innovation economy business.

729
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 5: As I was saying earlier, we didn't have the early

730
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 5: stage capabilities that we needed, you know, seven eight years ago,

731
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 5: and that's what it was a very kind of bespoke

732
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 5: to those high growth companies and the challenges.

733
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 4: That we fade that they face that led us to.

734
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 5: Kind of build out those digital capabilities and bundled solutions.

735
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 5: So that's a good example of why we felt like

736
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 5: we needed to build that as an industry.

737
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 2: So it's kind of fascinating that you're serving clients who

738
00:35:54,960 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 2: are rapidly innovating, expanding into spaces that wholly on we're seeing.

739
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 2: How do you keep up with that, how do you

740
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 2: make sure that you're innovative and cutting edge, and how

741
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 2: do you build this when it it's almost as if

742
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 2: your clients are outpacing you know, the rest of the market.

743
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 5: Absolutely, and I would say that is one of the

744
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 5: best parts of my job is meeting with founders all

745
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 5: day long and really obviously hearing about their businesses and

746
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 5: what they are doing to kind of disrupt industries, new

747
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 5: technologies and that is extraordinarily rewarding in terms of hearing

748
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 5: about that and how we can help support that growth. Overall,

749
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 5: it is very different meeting with again kind of back

750
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 5: to my earlier background spending time in deck capital markets.

751
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 5: You're basically covering Fortune five hundred companies. It's very which

752
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 5: is its own unique circumstances and those companies have their

753
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 5: own challenges. But it's very different speaking to the treasure

754
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 5: CFO or CEO of Fortune five hundred company than a founder, right, Like,

755
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 5: there's just it's a very different.

756
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 3: Different focus, different.

757
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 4: Space exactly, and skill set.

758
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 5: So that again is sort of the most fun part

759
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 5: of my job is being able to interact with all

760
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 5: of those founders and hear about sort of the technology

761
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:10,439
Speaker 5: to come.

762
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 2: So I'm intrigued at about the work you did in

763
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 2: debt capital markets, especially when you were in Europe for

764
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 2: three years. What are the major differences between the way

765
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 2: we manage debt capital markets and the way they do?

766
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:25,879
Speaker 3: Is it structural?

767
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 2: Tell us about you know, why is it that? Are

768
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 2: they very similar or are they different?

769
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 5: Well, so a couple things, I would say that, just

770
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 5: one in terms of how we think about covering companies

771
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,359
Speaker 5: in deck hon arcerts. In the US, we're organized by

772
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 5: industry team. In Europe for obviously obviously reasons were organized

773
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 5: by country team given language differences. So that again was

774
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 5: something that I very much enjoyed, was sitting back to

775
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,439
Speaker 5: in DCM. You're in the trading floor environment. I would

776
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 5: have my UK team over here, my Germany team, my

777
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 5: Italy team, so you know, everyone speaking different languages. I

778
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 5: kept thinking I was going to learn five languages by osmosis.

779
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 5: That did not work, so unfortunately.

780
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:02,439
Speaker 4: That's not the case.

781
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 5: But that was that was a great experience overall. I

782
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 5: was you know, the European debt capital markets are tend

783
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 5: to be a little bit more volatile than the US.

784
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 5: It's also because they are a lot smaller, right in

785
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 5: terms of just the total volume the investor base that

786
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 5: sort of supports those markets all around, and so that's

787
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 5: one of the major differences. What I would say is

788
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 5: for larger global companies, having access to that European market

789
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 5: has been quite advantageous, both from a capacity perspective if

790
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 5: they were running up against capacity constraints for a very

791
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 5: frequent issue obviously in the US, and two just from

792
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 5: a cost of funding perspective. So over the last several years,

793
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 5: given to the divergence and interest rates between the US

794
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 5: and Europe, for many companies, it's actually been cheaper to

795
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 5: issue bonds or you know, access to debt markets in

796
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 5: Europe than it has been in the US. Right in US,

797
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 5: interest rates were higher. So that's obviously just a great

798
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 5: alternative right for companies when they need to access enormous

799
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 5: amounts of capital and or are obviously very focused on

800
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 5: sort of what the most advantageous cost is.

801
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 2: So I know you're not an economist, so I'm not

802
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 2: going to ask you that question, but it just feels

803
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 2: like Europe cannot get out of its own way for

804
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 2: I don't know, past five years, ten years, go back

805
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 2: to Brexit and nearly Grexit. What's going on that Europe

806
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 2: seems to be almost structurally lagging the US and having

807
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 2: such difficulty finding its footing.

808
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 5: Well, I'm also not an expert on politics, so I'm

809
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,839
Speaker 5: not going to comment on that because I think there's

810
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 5: something to be said there. But what I would say

811
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 5: from sort of a structural perspective is I think probably

812
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 5: one of the bigger differences today is demographics, where kind

813
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 5: of working age population in Europe is declining. I think

814
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 5: it's still growing modestly in the US, and obviously that

815
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 5: will turn in the US at some point in time,

816
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 5: but so that that has been sort of one issue

817
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 5: in Europe. I think the post COVID recovery in Europe

818
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 5: was a lot more challenging, primarily because of the Russia

819
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 5: Ukraine War and sort of the energy crisis that they faced,

820
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 5: given a lot of their energy was coming from for

821
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 5: energy supply was coming from from Russia. So that had

822
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 5: a very different impact in Europe than it did in

823
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:15,919
Speaker 5: the US.

824
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 4: Overall.

825
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 5: If you look at Germany, obviously the largest, you know,

826
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 5: economy in Europe, it's very still sort of heavily manufacturing based.

827
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 5: Higher interest rates have really had hurt manufacturing, global manufacturing,

828
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 5: and so that's how a bigger impact I think on

829
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 5: Germany with those manufacturers operating globally. So those are some

830
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 5: of the things that I would point to. And you know,

831
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 5: there's just never been the same labor productivity across Europe

832
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,720
Speaker 5: as there has been in the US, and quite frankly,

833
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 5: just the support for innovation and right and new technology,

834
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 5: and I think that's just had a big impact. Back

835
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 5: to Germany's heavily manufacturing based right, the US probably less so.

836
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 2: Because when more service oriented, is that the.

837
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 4: More service oriented?

838
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 5: And I think again, you don't have the same I

839
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 5: think a lot a lot of countries in Europe are

840
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 5: looking to put in place policies to better incentivize some

841
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 5: of the technological development. But I mean, you don't have

842
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 5: a Bay Area type right, right. I mean you have

843
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 5: little pockets of that kind of concept right where you

844
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 5: have sort of this ecosystem coming together to disrupt and

845
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 5: innovate and support new technology. But there there's nothing as

846
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,280
Speaker 5: sort of big as the Bay Area in Europe.

847
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 2: But you do have world class manufacturing throughout Europe. And

848
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 2: I think absolutely of Mercedes, Porsche, BMW in Germany. You

849
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 2: think of all the I guess it really doesn't scale

850
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 2: watchmaking and things like that, but there are some really

851
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 2: high end companies that are incredibly successful. Are they just

852
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 2: the exceptions?

853
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 3: What is it? I'm trying to conceptualize?

854
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 5: Sure, But I also think it's it's much more fragmented

855
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 5: obviously than the US market, with each different country with

856
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 5: its own own rules and regulations and you know, some

857
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 5: some sort of more national less policies than others. And

858
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 5: I think that just has an impact on their ability

859
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 5: to kind of domin and we're talking about Europe is

860
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 5: if it's one thing.

861
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 3: But it's not so.

862
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 2: You're saying, really, it's it is structural, it's not so.

863
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 2: The combination of these structural challenges relatively high interest rate,

864
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 2: less productivity gains, and a focus that's less service oriented,

865
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 2: more manufacturing oriented demographics and demographics. Yeah, so the people

866
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 2: who have been waiting for hey, you know, Europe is

867
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 2: going to catch up. It's going to mean revert any second.

868
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 2: That doesn't seem to be in the imminent cards anytime soon.

869
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 4: I don't think that's in the twenty twenty five cards.

870
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 4: Let's put it there.

871
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 2: Okay, Hey, that's fair. That's a perfectly fair thing. I

872
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 2: want to talk a little bit about some of the

873
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 2: work you've done on women in banking.

874
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 3: You were on the Women on the Move.

875
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,760
Speaker 2: Podcast and one of the things you said that struck

876
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 2: me was women don't have as robust of a network

877
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 2: as as men do.

878
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 5: Explain, so that was that was a little bit of

879
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 5: a generalization, probably, but I think what I meant by

880
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 5: that was if women tend to stick to because I

881
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 5: think often earlier in their career and probably I did

882
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 5: the same thing early on. That you stick to sort

883
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 5: of the women's network that you develop, right, and there's

884
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 5: a lot of sort of women's networking events. I'll speak

885
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 5: for financial services specifically. If you only stick to that network,

886
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,800
Speaker 5: there's still a lot fewer women and sort of banking

887
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,839
Speaker 5: or pick many industries, right, then there are men, and

888
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 5: so that limits kind of that network overall. And so

889
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,800
Speaker 5: I think like important that you're spending time with people

890
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 5: across the organization, picking mentors across the organization, networking across

891
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 5: the organization to make sure that you're developing the same

892
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 5: robust network that's sort of some of your male colleagues

893
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:54,959
Speaker 5: would already be doing.

894
00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:01,399
Speaker 2: So I also read you value and prioritize mentorship. How

895
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 2: do you approach this at your job? We'll get to

896
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 2: questions about who your mentors were, But do you have mentees?

897
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 2: Are you?

898
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,280
Speaker 3: Are you practicing what you preach?

899
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 4: Yes?

900
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,720
Speaker 5: And I very much take that as a serious responsibility

901
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 5: and sort of part of my day job. You know,

902
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 5: we have various I would say, organized programs and then

903
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 5: there's more informal you know, mentors mentorship programs, and I

904
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,280
Speaker 5: think both are important. But I think over the years,

905
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 5: you know, making sure that all of the senior individuals

906
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 5: are sort of participating in those mentorship sponsorship programs, giving

907
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 5: younger people sort of the opportunity to learn from someone

908
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 5: else about their career, and again sort of doing the

909
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,720
Speaker 5: informal mentoring. I think back to the JP Morgan culture.

910
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 5: I think it's just very endemic there. Someone reaches out,

911
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,800
Speaker 5: you know, to have a cup of coffee with you,

912
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 5: you go do that, right, and it's just sort of

913
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 5: something that's expected and something that sort of I grew

914
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 5: up with, if you will, and so certainly something that

915
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 5: I again take very seriously.

916
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 2: So when I first started this podcast, I want to say,

917
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 2: almost eleven years ago, was very hard finding women in

918
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 2: senior leadership roles and having them come on as guests.

919
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 2: That has become much easier. I'm curious how you see

920
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 2: the industry as as once male dominated. It's still mostly

921
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,720
Speaker 2: male dominated, but it feels like it's improving somewhat.

922
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 3: What are you what's your perspective.

923
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 5: I do think that a lot of progress has been

924
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 5: made overall. I think, you know, JP Morian not to

925
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 5: toot our own horn, but I think is a great

926
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 5: example for the industry where you look at, you know,

927
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 5: our operating committee, which are the individuals that report directly

928
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 5: to Jamie.

929
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 4: You know it is heavily female.

930
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 2: Jamie, I'm sorry, I'm not familiar who is that.

931
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 5: There are many many females on the operating Committee. So

932
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 5: we've done a great job there and I think that

933
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 5: that's kind of you know, filtered down throughout the organization.

934
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 5: So yes, I do think it has improved substantially. I

935
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,359
Speaker 5: do still think there's a lot of challenges, particularly at

936
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,959
Speaker 5: that sort of VP late VP early ED level, early

937
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 5: executive director level. A lot of times when people are

938
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,399
Speaker 5: having sort of their first their first children and sort

939
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 5: of making sure that we're providing this a supportive environment

940
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 5: that they're able to obviously you know, come back to work.

941
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 4: As they would like to.

942
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 5: But yes, I think significant progress has been made at

943
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 5: But I think that is a very intentional effort back

944
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 5: to kind of understanding why if we are losing female

945
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 5: employees or diverse employees, why that is in the same

946
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 5: way that we want to understand why we're losing any employee, right,

947
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,439
Speaker 5: any talented employee we don't we don't want to lose.

948
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 5: But I think you have to be just very intentional

949
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 5: about measuring progress and understanding what the challenges are and

950
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 5: if there's anything that you can do or should be

951
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 5: doing to have a more sort of accommodative environment and

952
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:49,240
Speaker 5: inclusive environment.

953
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 2: So I have a question later about advice to recent

954
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 2: college grads, but as long as we're talking about women

955
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 2: in banking, let's stay focused on that here. What advice

956
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 2: do you have for any young woman who wants to

957
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 2: become part of the financial sector or banking industry.

958
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 5: I would just say, really taking advantage of friends colleagues

959
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 5: that you know, your network peers to understand all aspects

960
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 5: of the industry. And you know that's hard to do

961
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 5: sometimes when you're in college and you're not sort of

962
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 5: sitting in the organization. But I do think, and this

963
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 5: is not a commentary on females versus males, but just

964
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 5: sort of back to the networking point, you have kind

965
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 5: of a natural advantage if your parent was an investment

966
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 5: banker or a lawyer or right that dealt with with

967
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 5: sort of the banking industry, or you know, pick another

968
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:49,280
Speaker 5: sort of adjacent profession, and so you know, those individuals

969
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 5: know the right questions to ask, are more aware of

970
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:54,879
Speaker 5: the opportunities across the firm. It's not just investment banking.

971
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 5: There's lots of other things we do a JP Morgan

972
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 5: or any firm. So I think just making sure that

973
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 5: you're figuring out how to kind of gather that information

974
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 5: and ask all of those questions so that you are

975
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 5: a little more educated coming in about sort of what

976
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:09,280
Speaker 5: the opportunities are overall.

977
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 2: Huh, really interesting. So let me throw you a curveball question.

978
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 2: We talked earlier, not only about your ballet at age four,

979
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 2: but dancing professionally for three years. You're a member of

980
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 2: the board of trustees for American Ballet Theater, that's the

981
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 2: pinnacle of dance in America. Tell us a little bit

982
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 2: about the organization, how you found your way to it,

983
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 2: what are you doing with them?

984
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 4: Sure? So, I have been on the board since two

985
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 4: thousand and nine.

986
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 3: So wow, that's fifteen plus.

987
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, so a long time. So again.

988
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 5: American Ballet Theater, one of the greatest ballet companies in

989
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 5: the world, based here in New York, officially designated by Congress,

990
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:51,720
Speaker 5: is America's national ballet company.

991
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 4: Huh.

992
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 5: And actually, as of January of this year, I am

993
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 5: the new chair of the Board of ABT.

994
00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 2: Which is super exciting.

995
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 4: But you know, the.

996
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 5: Board obviously has its basic sort of governmance functions, but

997
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 5: you know, we spend a lot of time helping with

998
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:12,240
Speaker 5: fundraising for the organization and helping provide you know, expertise

999
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 5: where each individual has it. Any nonprofit obviously has a

1000
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,399
Speaker 5: much more limited sort of staff overall. So if there's

1001
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 5: people on the board that have real estate expertise, or

1002
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 5: finance expertise or HR expertise, that is very valuable to

1003
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 5: the organization as a whole. So there's always sort of

1004
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 5: special projects that we you know, sort of participate in

1005
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 5: from that perspective, but a big chunk of what the

1006
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 5: board does is really making sure people are aware of ABT,

1007
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 5: helping with fundraising, helping attract new donors, helping attract and

1008
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 5: develop new audience members.

1009
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:44,760
Speaker 3: Huh really really interesting.

1010
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 2: Have passed board members and or chair people been former

1011
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 2: professional ballet dancers or is this unusual?

1012
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 5: There's always a few, but certainly the majority of people

1013
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 5: on the board don't have a background in dance. And

1014
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 5: as I always remind everybody, I call it the separation

1015
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 5: between church and state. The board is there to sort

1016
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 5: of help with the business of running the ballet company.

1017
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 5: They have no input whatsoever to anything artistic, which is

1018
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:14,760
Speaker 5: why it's not required that you have any sort of background.

1019
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 2: But I'm curious if there have been previous chair people

1020
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 2: who were professional ballet.

1021
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 4: Dancers that I would have.

1022
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:23,919
Speaker 5: I don't think so, But I'm not one hundred percent

1023
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 5: part right, I don't think so. Our previous chair who

1024
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 5: retired at the end of last year, his sister danced

1025
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 5: with a company for many years, and that's really how

1026
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 5: he became involved in Obviously, you know, very passionate about

1027
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 5: the ballet huh.

1028
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 2: Really, it's one of those fascinating things that just I

1029
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: don't see on people's resumes all that often. And I

1030
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 2: had no idea you was shamman, but it's really fascinating,

1031
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 2: all right. So while I still have you, let's jump

1032
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 2: to our favorite questions that we ask all of our guests.

1033
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:55,280
Speaker 2: Speaking of entertainment, Let's start with what are you streaming

1034
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:59,280
Speaker 2: these days? What's keeping you entertained? It could be Netflix, podcast, whatever,

1035
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 2: What what are you enjoying these days?

1036
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 5: So first I would say I am sort of an

1037
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 5: avid reader. I was talking with a colleague on my

1038
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 5: way over here. Everybody consumes information differently. I consume it

1039
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 5: better reading, I think, than always listening right the same way.

1040
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 5: So I'm sort of very religious about getting through The

1041
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 5: Economist and The New Yorker every week. And I won't

1042
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 5: let myself read the next issue of The Economist until

1043
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 5: I finish the first one.

1044
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 4: So even if i'm behind, I know that.

1045
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 2: I'm in nineteen eighty six if I follow.

1046
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 4: The Okay, there you go, I might have to get

1047
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:31,359
Speaker 4: that up at some point.

1048
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 5: I am currently streaming, I guess, the second season of

1049
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 5: The Diplomat, which I'm very much enjoying.

1050
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 3: I so good.

1051
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 5: I love the political action thrillers, but I think I'm

1052
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 5: running out of them because I've watched all of them

1053
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 5: at this point.

1054
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 4: So you s oh, no, I haven't seen that.

1055
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 2: Okay, so a little more intelligence community slash tip of

1056
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 2: the spear, okay, but you know, the same sort of

1057
00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:00,399
Speaker 2: back and forth layers of intrigue. And but I really

1058
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 2: enjoyed The Diplomat. I thought that was fascinating. And then

1059
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 2: what was its secretary of state?

1060
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 4: Was the madam secretary Secretary?

1061
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 3: That same concept.

1062
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 5: I will admit I've watched it a couple of times.

1063
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:14,919
Speaker 5: Oh really, Yes, exactly. I think it's a good pick

1064
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 5: me up, particularly when partisan politics are you know, depressing everyone.

1065
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 4: It's good. It's just a happy there's always a happy ending.

1066
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:23,319
Speaker 4: I appreciate the.

1067
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 2: Time there's you have an ability to go to a

1068
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 2: space you're wholly unfamiliar with and be challenged. It's not

1069
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:33,840
Speaker 2: just entertaining, but it you know, clears the cob webs exactly, exactly,

1070
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:38,240
Speaker 2: really interesting. So we talked about you as a mentor.

1071
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 2: Who were your mentors who helped shape your career?

1072
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 5: So I would say I feel very lucky when I

1073
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 5: was most of my career, when I was in Deck

1074
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 5: Capital Markets, I worked for a woman who ran DCM

1075
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 5: at the time, and then she went on to do

1076
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,359
Speaker 5: different things at the firm who was very much a

1077
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 5: sponsor mentor.

1078
00:52:58,200 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 4: For me overall.

1079
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 5: And it's just, you know, over time she's retired now

1080
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 5: from JPMorgan but sort of you know, become a friend.

1081
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 5: But I think that's where I really, I think learned

1082
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 5: and embraced kind of just this concept of attracting talent,

1083
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 5: retaining talent, helping to kind of bring up the next

1084
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 5: generation of women is a responsibility of senior people. And

1085
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 5: she really demonstrated that, and certainly I took that to heart.

1086
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 2: So since you are a reader, let's talk about books.

1087
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 2: What are your favorites and what are you reading right now?

1088
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 5: So favorites are hard, but what I'm what I'm reading

1089
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 5: right now? So I actually just finished over the holidays.

1090
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,839
Speaker 5: I tend to alternate between fiction and nonfiction, okay, because

1091
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:46,320
Speaker 5: I think both are important. Finished Chasing Hope, the Nicholas

1092
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 5: christoph book is a Foreign Correspondent for The Times, which

1093
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 5: is interesting. I finished a biography of Alexeira Monsky, who's

1094
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 5: a choreographer. I don't think many many listening to this

1095
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 5: podcast may find that book interesting.

1096
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 4: But I did a new.

1097
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 5: Fiction by Michael Cunningham called Day. So those are all

1098
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:10,720
Speaker 5: really good. Some of my favorite authors Isabelle Ending Dave Edgars.

1099
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 4: That's what I would say.

1100
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 2: Edgars is kind of funny if I.

1101
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 5: And he has funny titles which I love. Heartbreaking Work

1102
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 5: of Staggering Genius one of his first books.

1103
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 4: Love that book.

1104
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're down to our last two questions. And

1105
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 2: this is a broader question than I asked earlier. What

1106
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 2: sort of advice would you give to a recent college

1107
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 2: grad interested in a career in either banking or finance.

1108
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 5: I think to make sure that they embrace risks taking.

1109
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 5: And I say that because maybe just because I myself,

1110
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 5: maybe I'm a little bit risk averse. But I think

1111
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 5: over the course of your career, you have the opportunity

1112
00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 5: often to do many different things, and a lot of

1113
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 5: times people are afraid to sort of leave their current

1114
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 5: group and do something different, and it just opens up

1115
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 5: a whole world of possibility. So I think sort of

1116
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 5: taking a little bit more risk than you might naturally

1117
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:11,760
Speaker 5: do is always good advice.

1118
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,800
Speaker 2: And when you have no spouse, no mortgage, no kids,

1119
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 2: that's the time full on your face because you get up,

1120
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 2: dust yourself off and start over again. It's funny how

1121
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 2: when you're a few years past being young, that's obvious,

1122
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 2: but at the time it doesn't feel that way.

1123
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 4: Well, and it feels like such a big ust.

1124
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 2: Got it's so risky, right exactly. And our final question,

1125
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 2: what do you know about the world of banking and

1126
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 2: investment and growth companies today that would have been really

1127
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 2: helpful twenty five or so years ago.

1128
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 4: That's a really good question.

1129
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 2: And it's not I should have worn in video when

1130
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 2: it was fifty cents. It's like, what philosophically would have

1131
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,839
Speaker 2: been useful to know that you eventually figured out.

1132
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,839
Speaker 5: I think because I started in the investment bank and

1133
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,880
Speaker 5: then by definition was really working with primarily larger size companies.

1134
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,720
Speaker 5: I think I know, as I kind of mentioned earlier,

1135
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 5: understanding how different it is and the fact that you

1136
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 5: have the ability to make an even bigger difference for

1137
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 5: a smaller size company that needs that sort of trusted

1138
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 5: advisor even more, I think it would would be sort

1139
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 5: of good to know, right because it is. I think

1140
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 5: financial services overall, you have the ability to take on

1141
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 5: a lot more responsibility at an early age than other industries.

1142
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 5: But I think again, the ability to kind of influence

1143
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 5: and advise an early stage company is just incredibly rewarding

1144
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 5: given the limited resources staff that they have.

1145
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 2: Melissa, this has been absolutely fascinating. Thank you for being

1146
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 2: so generous with your time. We have been speaking with

1147
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 2: Melissa Smith. She is co head of commercial banking for

1148
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 2: JP Morgan. If you enjoy this conversation, we'll be sure

1149
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 2: to check out any of the past five hundred or

1150
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 2: so we've done over the previous ten years. You can

1151
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 2: find those at iTunes, Spotify, Bloomberg YouTube, wherever you find

1152
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 2: your favorite podcasts, and be sure to check out my

1153
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 2: new book, How Not To Invest, coming March seventeenth, wherever

1154
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 2: you get your favorite books from.

1155
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 3: I would be remiss if.

1156
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 2: I did not thank the Crack team that helps put

1157
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 2: these conversations together each week. Sarah Livesey is my audio engineer.

1158
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 2: Anna Luke is my producer. Sean Russo is my researcher.

1159
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 2: Sage Bauman is the head of Podcasts at Bloomberg. I'm

1160
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 2: Barry Rutults. You've been listening to Masters in Business on

1161
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Radio