WEBVTT - The Race for the World's First Advanced Nuclear Microreactor Developer

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and

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<v Speaker 2>Tim Stenoveek on Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 1>Chairs of Canadian uranium producer Chemico rose as much as

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<v Speaker 1>twenty seven percent to a record high today. This after

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<v Speaker 1>the US government signed a packed with westing House Electric,

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<v Speaker 1>Chemi Coo, and Brookfield that will see at least eighty

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<v Speaker 1>billion dollars of new nuclear reactors constructed in the US

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<v Speaker 1>to accelerate nuclear power in AI deployment and breaking late yesterday,

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<v Speaker 1>next to air Energy planning to restart a nuclear power

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<v Speaker 1>plan in Iowa, primarily to supply Google data centers. We

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<v Speaker 1>got Will Wade with us. He's Bloomberg News Energy reporter.

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<v Speaker 1>He joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers Studio.

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<v Speaker 1>Did the US make a mistake, Will in shutting down

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<v Speaker 1>nuclear reactors over the last few years.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, that's a tough question. When they made those decisions

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<v Speaker 3>to shut down reactors, and I used to keep a

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<v Speaker 3>spreadsheet on my desk, I call it dead Nukes file

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<v Speaker 3>of the dozen or so reactors that were shut down

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<v Speaker 3>in the past a little more in a decade. It

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<v Speaker 3>was the right decision. Then they were expensive to operate.

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<v Speaker 3>Nobody wanted to pay that much for power. But the

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<v Speaker 3>world has really changed around us.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think at Indian Point, close to New York City,

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<v Speaker 1>that one was didn't it outlive It's like life cycle.

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<v Speaker 1>It was sort of at the end of its life.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh no, it was closed ahead of time.

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<v Speaker 1>It was closed ahead of time.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that was a big political campaign. There were people

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<v Speaker 3>that were really worried about having a nuclear power plant

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<v Speaker 3>so close to the biggest city in America. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>that's a legitimate concern. But we closed that plant and

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<v Speaker 3>immediately people started saying, wait, New York State carbon emissions

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<v Speaker 3>are going to go up this year because we replaced

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<v Speaker 3>all the nuclear with natural gas.

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<v Speaker 2>Who would have thought.

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<v Speaker 4>So it does feel like we mentioned the US signing

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<v Speaker 4>an eighty billion dollar pack to boost nuclear power in

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<v Speaker 4>that AI push, Google buying power from next era nuclear

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<v Speaker 4>power plant being revived.

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<v Speaker 2>So the spend is on, the deal are on?

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<v Speaker 4>Is the build on though, to really build out maybe

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<v Speaker 4>the nuclear capacity that's needed.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh building nuclear, No, nobody's doing that, that's true.

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<v Speaker 1>But the money's there, the commitments are there. The mothballing

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<v Speaker 1>is being undone. Right, Okay, So here's what we're seeing.

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<v Speaker 1>There is an enormous amount of interest in nuclear energy

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<v Speaker 1>right now. I've been seeing it for eighteen twenty four months.

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<v Speaker 1>This is because electricity demand is going to go through

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<v Speaker 1>the roof. That's largely for data centers and AI It's

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<v Speaker 1>not just that, it's for a lot of things, but

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<v Speaker 1>that's the big part of it.

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<v Speaker 3>We need new electricity, we need a lot of it.

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<v Speaker 3>We did not see this coming. We were not building

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<v Speaker 3>new nuclear plants. At the same time, we would love

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<v Speaker 3>our electricity to be clean. So that really makes nuclear

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<v Speaker 3>the best option because it's available around the clock, unlike

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<v Speaker 3>wind and solar.

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<v Speaker 1>Right how quickly can nuclear power plants be built outside

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<v Speaker 1>of the United States? In China, Korea, Japan.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, China's really good at building them.

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<v Speaker 3>They've they've been doing a NonStop they got I think

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<v Speaker 3>they're soon going to surpass the US in terms of

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<v Speaker 3>the number of reactors they've got going. So yeah, they're

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<v Speaker 3>faster at it than us. The Koreas are really good

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<v Speaker 3>at it. I was in Korea this year. Their nuclear

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<v Speaker 3>industry is they've been going NonStop for fifty something years.

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<v Speaker 3>Our industry pretty much ground to a holt around nineteen seventy.

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<v Speaker 2>Nine with through My Island.

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<v Speaker 3>So we spent years doing nothing and we never really

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<v Speaker 3>recovered from that.

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<v Speaker 2>We're working on it.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, we're going to keep Will Wade with us Blimber

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<v Speaker 4>News Energy Report. Someone else who's working on it too

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<v Speaker 4>to build out nuclear capacity is James Walker. He's CEO

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<v Speaker 4>of Nano Nuclear Energy. It's a two point three billion

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<v Speaker 4>dollar market cap nuclear energy company that is working on

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<v Speaker 4>SMRs small modular reactors. Shares are up nearly ninety percent

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<v Speaker 4>so far this year. Big chunk though, of the float

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<v Speaker 4>is short. James joining us from Vancouver. James, come on

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<v Speaker 4>in on this conversation. I mean, realistically, how long before

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<v Speaker 4>we actually you actually get an SMR built and it's

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<v Speaker 4>up and running.

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<v Speaker 5>It's a good question because it gets asked, as you

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<v Speaker 5>can imagine, more than any other question. And there's kind

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<v Speaker 5>of two answers to it too, because to get a

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<v Speaker 5>reactor built and constructed and licensed is one question, but

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<v Speaker 5>the other question is how long is it going to

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<v Speaker 5>take for the fuel supply chain to be built back

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<v Speaker 5>adequately in the country to be able to mass manufacture

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<v Speaker 5>the fuel, to allow the mass manufactur of reactors. So

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<v Speaker 5>on one side, our company is already going ahead with

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<v Speaker 5>the construction project two construction projects to build reactor systems,

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<v Speaker 5>and we're talking to data centers and all of those

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<v Speaker 5>sort of groups as well. But on the other side,

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<v Speaker 5>like you know, we even our company, we need to

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<v Speaker 5>get involved in that fuel supply chain and build it

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<v Speaker 5>back because, as Will was saying just before this sort

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<v Speaker 5>of after Three Mile Island, the investment into the country

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<v Speaker 5>sort of broke down a lot. We need that investment

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<v Speaker 5>to go back in into rebuilding that fuel supply chain,

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<v Speaker 5>so companies like ours can mass manufacture the reactor systems.

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<v Speaker 1>But James, on Carol's question about a timeline here, what

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<v Speaker 1>would be a realistic timeline for completion of your first

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<v Speaker 1>modular nuclear reactor.

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<v Speaker 5>So we're doing a dual program right now, as it's

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<v Speaker 5>already started on the site. So we'll have the geotechnical

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<v Speaker 5>data to submit for a construction permit that'll go in

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<v Speaker 5>early next year, and I'll see you will turn that

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<v Speaker 5>around in twenty twenty six. So construction twenty twenty seven,

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<v Speaker 5>twenty twenty eight, twenty twenty nine, and then fully licensed

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<v Speaker 5>reactor operating commercial license twenty thirty is very reasonable timeline.

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<v Speaker 5>So I would say early twenty thirties, then you're going

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<v Speaker 5>to see the mass rollout of reactor systems, so dozens

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<v Speaker 5>on an annual basis.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that timeline fits with what I hear from a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of companies early twenty thirties for a significant wave

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<v Speaker 3>of new power plants. But I guess the issue is

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<v Speaker 3>that we have all these people who want power yesterday.

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<v Speaker 3>How do we meet their needs?

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<v Speaker 5>Look, there's a it's a it's actually a very reasonable question.

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<v Speaker 5>Like as a company, we you know, we want to

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<v Speaker 5>be conservative and truthful with everybody because you know, we've

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<v Speaker 5>got to earn long term trust here. There are good

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<v Speaker 5>interim solutions, like I know companies have been exploring things

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<v Speaker 5>like gas and and to be honest, if they can

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<v Speaker 5>get hold of that in the interim, great, But even

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<v Speaker 5>things like gas contracts, they're all tied up for seven

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<v Speaker 5>eight years. Turbines around gas are tied up for seven

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<v Speaker 5>eight years too, So it's it's there's no easy solution here.

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<v Speaker 5>Even bringing in as you mentioned, like wind and solar

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<v Speaker 5>or anything like that. These are it's amitten technologies which

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<v Speaker 5>require huge battery storage technology to run alongside them. A

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<v Speaker 5>lot of the time, it's just not feasible. They're also

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<v Speaker 5>very locationally dependent, so you be limited on where you

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<v Speaker 5>can even deploy these things. I mean, unfortunately, there's no

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<v Speaker 5>there's no great solution, which is why when the show

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<v Speaker 5>started they were talking about opening up these old power

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<v Speaker 5>stations and recommissioning old nuclear power plants because those are

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<v Speaker 5>the some of them are the interim solutions. It won't

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<v Speaker 5>be enough power, but it'll be some.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, those restart projects that fruit. Do you think there

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<v Speaker 3>are other plants that we can restart or is it

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<v Speaker 3>just the ones we've already seen? Are we exhausted that list?

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<v Speaker 5>So it's a good question, Like there's a number have

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<v Speaker 5>been shut down, and like it's it's arguable that you

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<v Speaker 5>mentioned Indian Point as an example. I know it wasn't

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<v Speaker 5>politically popular and maybe there was some of that related

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<v Speaker 5>to the decisions around that kind of plant, that that

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<v Speaker 5>could be an act, that could be a route, even

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<v Speaker 5>the old three Mile Island plant. Since we bring that

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<v Speaker 5>up as I think it's see the Microsoft or Constellation,

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<v Speaker 5>we're involved in recommissioning that and trying to get that

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<v Speaker 5>back up and running.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Constellation says that'll be ready by twenty twenty seven.

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<v Speaker 5>There we go. So, like you know, I think, as

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<v Speaker 5>you say, like there's going to be big projected powering

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<v Speaker 5>demand increases in the country, they might not get solved

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<v Speaker 5>for until we get those twenty thirties. And the problem

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<v Speaker 5>there is that that could mean a stagnation in the

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<v Speaker 5>tech industry. They'll find every means they can to get power.

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<v Speaker 5>But like that big online colocation green technology that provides

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<v Speaker 5>baseload power that can only really come from nuclear and

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<v Speaker 5>a lot of these reactor systems. Despite any really outlandish

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<v Speaker 5>claims about deploying near term, it's it's going to be

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<v Speaker 5>early twenty thirties, twenty thirty and onwards.

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<v Speaker 4>All right, So the demand story is compelling if the

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<v Speaker 4>obstacles are just as a parent, those aren't my words,

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<v Speaker 4>those are well waded words who reports on this sector,

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<v Speaker 4>as you well know. I mean, help me out here though,

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<v Speaker 4>because I'm just wondering. You know, if I'm looking at

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<v Speaker 4>a stock that is up eighty percent year to date,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, you guys don't have any revenues, right, I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>like our investors, you know, this is what we do. Like,

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<v Speaker 4>are they probably getting ahead of themselves. Thirty percent of

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<v Speaker 4>your float is short, so investors are just kind of

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<v Speaker 4>waiting for something negative to hit because they're negative the sentiment.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, realistically, you're talking at least five years right

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<v Speaker 4>before you're showing significant revenue or earnings or anything along

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<v Speaker 4>those lines.

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<v Speaker 5>No, like our early using on people will come online

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<v Speaker 5>a long time before that. I mean, because there's this

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<v Speaker 5>massive build back. The opportunity at the moment in the

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<v Speaker 5>nuclear space is huge. It can come through the fuel

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<v Speaker 5>supply chain, or transportation or isotopes. Like, the nice part

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<v Speaker 5>is that we're part of this build back effort. So

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<v Speaker 5>and look, the stock market is always about an investment

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<v Speaker 5>in the future. I mean, the nice part is that

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<v Speaker 5>the demand is there in a way that's unprecedented. Like

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<v Speaker 5>buying now really is an investment in the future, and

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<v Speaker 5>a future that's inevitable. The tech industry is not going

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<v Speaker 5>to just give up and pack up and go away.

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<v Speaker 2>But what if what.

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<v Speaker 4>If the what if the AI spend and build that

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<v Speaker 4>is I know, everybody comes out and says no bubble

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<v Speaker 4>or a lot of people do. What if there is though,

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<v Speaker 4>an overspend? Where does that catch you guys? Potentially?

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<v Speaker 5>I think the bubble has only been like discussed around AI.

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<v Speaker 5>But like in terms of data centers, those are things

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<v Speaker 5>that cannot be bubbles. That is, power that's needed for

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<v Speaker 5>our whole tech industry, Like a data center cannot be

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<v Speaker 5>a bubble. Like if you need increased power for computing power,

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<v Speaker 5>it has to come from somewhere AI. Whether that's going

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<v Speaker 5>to bear out the fruits of what's been promised, that

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<v Speaker 5>remains to be seen. But currently it's just expanding. But

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<v Speaker 5>it's it's it's kind of irrelevant to the long term

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<v Speaker 5>power requirements because the electrification of the country, the reindustrialization

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<v Speaker 5>of the country, that's all going ahead. And you mentioned

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<v Speaker 5>stocks like and the short interest. Great, if people want

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<v Speaker 5>to short us, that's better because we've we've gone higher

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<v Speaker 5>and higher as a stock just because every time the

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<v Speaker 5>shorts have been squeezed, the more shorts, the better for

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<v Speaker 5>us because they always.

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<v Speaker 1>Only only ten seconds left. But would you say that

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<v Speaker 1>you are most further along than any other company, the

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<v Speaker 1>most along than any other company.

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<v Speaker 5>In terms of microreactors, yees. I believe we'll have the

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<v Speaker 5>US constructed full scale commercial commercially license my corrector in

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<v Speaker 5>the country.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, you can put an SMR in my backyard because

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<v Speaker 4>my monthly electrical bills are crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>You're shutting off lights. You're glowing today, Yeah, I'm glowing.

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<v Speaker 4>Will Wade of Bloomberg News and James Walker, CEO of

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<v Speaker 4>Nano Nuclear Energy, Guys, thank you so much. Great discussion

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<v Speaker 4>right here on Bloomberg