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Speaker 1: Hey, what welcome and I'm Doug Goliban. This is all ball.

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Speaker 1: We got great stories, great pods for you upcoming. I

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Speaker 1: thought you'd enjoy this one. Um. You know we're we're

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Speaker 1: getting ready. Obviously we gotta fall a U high school season.

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Speaker 1: We're getting ready for the NBA. Uh. There's a ton

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Speaker 1: to talk about with the Nets and the Lakers. If

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Speaker 1: you've been an All Star in the last twenty years

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Speaker 1: and you're willing to work for a little those are

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Speaker 1: two teams you're gonna play for. I mean the litany

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Speaker 1: of of of guys that are I mean, it's crazy

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Speaker 1: what what they're adding in terms of names. Whether they

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Speaker 1: can play or not, that's a completely different story. We'll

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Speaker 1: see what Rondo now being a Laker, um uh LaMarcus

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Speaker 1: Aldridge being a Net. There's there, there's some there's names

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Speaker 1: that you will remember and the question is can they

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Speaker 1: still play? I don't know what the answer is that

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Speaker 1: on the benches of the Lakers and the Brooklyn Nets,

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Speaker 1: But I want to get you this story. It's a

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Speaker 1: really good one. Jake Cohen's a guy who I know

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Speaker 1: his uncle and I got to meet his father, and

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Speaker 1: I remember when he was coming up and he ultimately

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Speaker 1: signed at Davidson and then was the two time so

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Speaker 1: Calm Player of the Year. Um, he went from a

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Speaker 1: guy who was lightly recruited at first too heavily recruited

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Speaker 1: by by high level academic schools, goes to Davidson, becomes

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Speaker 1: a hell of a college player, and then goes to

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Speaker 1: Mccabi Tel Aviv. But Um lost his contract, you know,

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Speaker 1: they cut him. He circled back and now he's in

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Speaker 1: his third stint this year with Maccabi tel Aviv, one

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Speaker 1: of the great teams in all of the world. But

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Speaker 1: how he got there fascinting. Let's take a listen to

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Speaker 1: my discussion about his life and career. Here's Jake Cohen.

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Speaker 1: All right, Jake, before we get to kint of your

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Speaker 1: legendary status currently in Israel, let's get to where it

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Speaker 1: all started. Right, So, Um, your first memories of basketball

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Speaker 1: are where and when? Like? How old? What Rex Center?

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Speaker 1: Give me the give me the rundown. My first memory

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Speaker 1: of basketball is probably in our basement on the Fisher

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Speaker 1: Price hoop with my dad and older brother, and I

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Speaker 1: remember we would play like one on one or one

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Speaker 1: on two, and if you didn't use your left hand

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Speaker 1: doing a left hand layup, he would block it and

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Speaker 1: if you did use your left hand, he would let

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Speaker 1: you score. So that that's probably my first memory in

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Speaker 1: the basement with the Fisher Price. I love it. It's

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Speaker 1: a great way to teach uh ambidexterity. Right is I'm

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Speaker 1: only gonna I'm only going to throw your ship in

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Speaker 1: the stands if you come with the if you come

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Speaker 1: with the if you come with the wrong hand, exactly,

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Speaker 1: really force and good habits. How how much older than

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Speaker 1: you use? Your big brother he's he's about three and

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Speaker 1: a half years older, but four grades apart. So we

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Speaker 1: actually never were in in school together, so um he

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Speaker 1: was that was he was? He Were you big when

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Speaker 1: you're young? Was he big when you're young? Like? What was?

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Speaker 1: What were you guys like growing up? He was much

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Speaker 1: bigger than me growing up. He's like being four years older,

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Speaker 1: that's a big difference. And he was a really good

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Speaker 1: athlete too. He played, uh he played quarterback at Dartmouth

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Speaker 1: in college, so he was he was a good athlete.

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Speaker 1: And he bullied me quite a bit growing up, um,

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Speaker 1: both on and off the athletic fields. But it was

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Speaker 1: good for me, No, totally good like like my brother. So,

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Speaker 1: my brother is four years older than me, and he

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Speaker 1: used to you know, and I guess four or five

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Speaker 1: by the end up being five grades ahead because I

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Speaker 1: stayed back. And um, he used to do the same

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Speaker 1: thing you do, all kinds of shifty things, like Hey,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna play ball at the elementary school after, you know,

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Speaker 1: like four o'clock, meet us there, and like I'd be there,

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Speaker 1: I go get my good outdoor shoes, my ball, and

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Speaker 1: I'd be warming up and no one would show up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: just all kinds of or come home and just locked

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Speaker 1: me out of the house. My parents both blacked me

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Speaker 1: on the house, just just just um. Now, did you

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Speaker 1: ever play on his team going up where you were

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Speaker 1: the little guy? You're the younger guy just trying to

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Speaker 1: trying to fit in. No, No, I mean he wouldn't

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Speaker 1: really even let me play with his friends. I was.

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Speaker 1: I was always the outcast. Big brothers have a funny

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Speaker 1: way of teaching lessons, as I'm sure you can relate to, um,

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it was. It wasn't until he went away

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Speaker 1: to college and I got started high school that we started,

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Speaker 1: you know, like being friendly to each other. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if he missed me or what but or if

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Speaker 1: it was because I went on my growth spurt and

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden I was taller than he was.

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Speaker 1: So it's a it could have been a bunch of

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Speaker 1: different reasons for that. But uh, now we're best friends.

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Speaker 1: But looking back on our relationship, like when I was

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Speaker 1: in middle school and stuff, it was it was rocky.

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Speaker 1: So it's interesting. It's very interesting. So, um, you grew in.

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Speaker 1: How old were you when you grow I went from

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Speaker 1: my freshman year when I was like, what, that's when

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Speaker 1: you're fourteen or fifteen? I guess right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So he went away to college like in August, and

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Speaker 1: I was like six one, and then he went he

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Speaker 1: came back for Thanksgiving and I was six six and

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Speaker 1: he's six five. So like I got those five inches

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Speaker 1: on him in like four months or something three months.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you must have been terrible and bad

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Speaker 1: bassball during that period time. Now, yeah, it's not my No.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't on any early you know, rankings lists. I

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Speaker 1: was not good. That is very true. So was was

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Speaker 1: he like you guys darknoth Was he like a high

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Speaker 1: school football star? Was he like a phenom? Everybody in

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Speaker 1: the area talked about him. Guy. Yeah, so he was.

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Speaker 1: He was like a three sports star. He was, you know,

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Speaker 1: the quarterback on the basketball team, starting small forward on

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Speaker 1: the bat sorry, quarterback on the football team, small forward

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Speaker 1: on the basketball team, and then you know, like the

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Speaker 1: ace on amount for the baseball team. So I had

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Speaker 1: some big shoes to follow, and I wasn't nearly the

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Speaker 1: athlete he was in those other sports. Um. I just

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Speaker 1: was a good basketball player, so I kind of specialized

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Speaker 1: as supposed to him being the jack of all trades. Um.

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Speaker 1: So you're in high school, your first year, you grow

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Speaker 1: like crazy, do you have very good? Nobody's good that year?

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Speaker 1: Right the year they grow. I stayed back that year

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Speaker 1: I was I was five. I was I was like

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Speaker 1: five ft when I finished eighth grade, fourteen hundred and

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Speaker 1: three pounds. And then in fifteen months right from like

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Speaker 1: because I stayed back. When I enrolled in high school,

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Speaker 1: I was like right. So I went through that and

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Speaker 1: I and I played with a team in l A

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Speaker 1: called the Ball and I just remember like I was

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Speaker 1: so bad because my body just would not cooperate with me,

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Speaker 1: and my achilles tendants always hurt, my heels always hurt,

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Speaker 1: but obviously you know that your growth was important. So

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Speaker 1: you're so your sophomore year, how good were you in

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Speaker 1: high school? I was? I was okay. I had absolutely

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Speaker 1: no muscle on me. I was probably six eight or

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Speaker 1: six nine and probably like a hundred and seventy five

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Speaker 1: pounds hundred eighty pounds. I was really thin, and but

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Speaker 1: I had like good touch and stuff like that. And

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Speaker 1: I think I scored like eight points a game on

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Speaker 1: the varsity my sophomore year and then the summer. But

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Speaker 1: that was when I first got my like big AU

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Speaker 1: like interest, Like the big Philly teams wanted me to

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Speaker 1: play AU for them after my sophomore year. So that's

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Speaker 1: when I kind of got exposed to what real AU

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Speaker 1: basketball is. Like I played with Team Philly, which is

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Speaker 1: now klo Elite, which is it was by Dennis still

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Speaker 1: is his Kyle Lowry's team. Um, so that's why I

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Speaker 1: started playing with and that that was really good for

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Speaker 1: me because that that puts you through the ringer. I

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Speaker 1: was like the I was the suburban kid playing with

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Speaker 1: you know, the guys from North Philly, and that was

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Speaker 1: that was absolutely what I needed. It was awesome. So

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Speaker 1: who is who is that your team? I played with

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Speaker 1: Malik Waynes, Meridine, Lindsay, Tony Channel, um, who else, Parish Grant,

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Speaker 1: den Zel Yard, um, who else who? Uh, Denny Stewart, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: some others as well. Um, Malik is the was the

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Speaker 1: big name for us. He was you know, and he

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Speaker 1: was in the top ten you know nationally McDonald's American

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing. What's amazing is here we are

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Speaker 1: years later, you're still hooping, you know, And I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't think any of those other guys are. I know,

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Speaker 1: by the time I graduated, I was like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know a D and eightieth some I don't know what

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Speaker 1: website bothers to rank, you know that many kids, but

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Speaker 1: someone does it. And you know, out of those hundred

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Speaker 1: and seventy nine ahead of me or something, they were

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Speaker 1: like four guys that I could recognize still playing, and

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Speaker 1: one of them was was Kauai Leonard at like a

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Speaker 1: hundred and forty eight, which I thought was pretty amazing.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it just goes to show those rankings, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean a lot at the time and

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Speaker 1: then less and less his life goes on. No, I

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Speaker 1: think I think they are. I think here's The problem

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Speaker 1: is a lot of times and you tell me if

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Speaker 1: I'm okay my experiences. Um, Sometimes the rankings are done

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Speaker 1: by people who I don't know what they're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes oftentimes they're done based upon current day, right, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you actually stack me, stack you up against other guys,

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Speaker 1: they would appear to be better. The problem is that,

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Speaker 1: like that's not really how you're supposed to recruit. You

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Speaker 1: got to recruit. What's a guy going to look like

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Speaker 1: over the next four to five years he's in your program,

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Speaker 1: and you know if you're I mean, Ronnie Fields is

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Speaker 1: the perfect example, right, Like, now, Ronnie was my year,

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Speaker 1: he was old as well, he had off the court

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Speaker 1: issues that caused him to flame out and never really

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Speaker 1: play collegiently and professionally. But he and Kevin Garnett were

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Speaker 1: the number one players. But like if you watched KG,

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Speaker 1: he wasn't. He wasn't as good as you know, like

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Speaker 1: Stepan Marbor is probably better at that particular point in time. Well, like,

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Speaker 1: if you knew what you're looking for, you knew that

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Speaker 1: Kevin Garnett over the next five or ten years was

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Speaker 1: going to be light years better than everybody else, right,

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Speaker 1: just because he was so skinny and his body was

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Speaker 1: still developing whatever. And it's like for you, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: there were guys that were more productive, Um Kawhi Leonard,

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Speaker 1: why was he under raged? He was a center and

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Speaker 1: you had to you know, you had to close one

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Speaker 1: eye and go like, oh, eventually he's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: or in college and then maybe at three in the

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Speaker 1: pros um. So it's a it's a hard thing to read,

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Speaker 1: but it is fascinating. You're the perfect example of when

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Speaker 1: I tell people it's a marathon not a sprint. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're you're that. You're that guy who's now still killing

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Speaker 1: it while everybody else is retired and trying to find

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Speaker 1: what's next in my life. Okay, so your uh, your

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Speaker 1: your suburb kid playing on a city team. I remember

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Speaker 1: my brother was at Cal talking about recruiting you, Right,

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Speaker 1: they recruit you some What was the process like for

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Speaker 1: recruiting for you? It was a lot of the It

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Speaker 1: started with a lot of the high academic schools recruiting

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Speaker 1: me in the beginning, um, you know, like the Ivy

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Speaker 1: League and Patriot League stuff like that, because I had

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Speaker 1: good grades and that sort of thing. Um, and then

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Speaker 1: my recruiting didn't really take off until I somehow got

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Speaker 1: into the Reebok Top one camp that was in Piladelphia.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's only because I was a local

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Speaker 1: kid and someone else dropped out and I was like

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Speaker 1: the last second replacement. UM and I ended up playing

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Speaker 1: really well there. And after that was when my recruiting

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Speaker 1: really took off, when I got started getting looks from

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Speaker 1: from cal Stanford, UM, some other high majors. UM. Davidson

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Speaker 1: had been on me for a while. UH, and so

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Speaker 1: I scheduled my my visits for the fall. Stanford was

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Speaker 1: first because I thought that that was where I was

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Speaker 1: going to go UM, and then I scheduled Davidson, you know,

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Speaker 1: just to do my due diligence. But I was like,

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Speaker 1: I can't see myself not going to Stanford. UM took

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Speaker 1: my Stanford to visit. I thought it was it was lovely,

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Speaker 1: had a nice time. And then I think it was

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Speaker 1: like coach John coach Johnny Jawkins had just taken the job.

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Speaker 1: Yeah he was. It was his first like summer recruiting. UM.

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Speaker 1: And then two weeks later I in my visit to

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Speaker 1: Davidson just to be sure, and I loved it. Absolutely

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Speaker 1: fell in love with with everything that they did. It

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Speaker 1: was just one of those like gut things. I just

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Speaker 1: knew deep down it was right for me to go there.

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Speaker 1: And despite the despite the insistence from my my father

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Speaker 1: to go to Stanford, I committed to Davidson. Um. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So Davidson is a really unique place, and I think

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Speaker 1: most people only know it because of staff, right, it's

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Speaker 1: literally their only knowledge of Definitely, you don't know anything

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Speaker 1: about it. Um. I got a chance his sophomore year,

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Speaker 1: right before you know, they went to the Elite eight

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Speaker 1: that year, right before it blew up. I did one

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Speaker 1: of their games, and I fell in love with the place.

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Speaker 1: I was so cool. Um. I thought the coolest thing

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Speaker 1: was they had the same thing as Notre Dame where

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Speaker 1: they had the on campus laundry service. They have that

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Speaker 1: when you were there. Yeah yeah, so okay. So to

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Speaker 1: the person who's never the only thing they know about

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Speaker 1: Davidson is I know it's in Charlotte, right, and I

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Speaker 1: know Steph Curry went there. You come from Philly. What

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Speaker 1: is paint the picture for me of what Davidson is

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Speaker 1: really like? Well, I didn't know anything about it besides

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Speaker 1: Steph went there. When I took my visit. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm from the northeast side. I'd never been down there before. Um,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's like an idyllic college town, you know,

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Speaker 1: beautiful Georgian brick buildings, sprawling green spaces, uh, really quaint

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Speaker 1: main street with like old timey shops that like sell

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Speaker 1: milkshakes and malts and stuff like that. And it's a

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Speaker 1: really small school. It's only like two thousand students. My

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Speaker 1: high school is bigger than my college, which really appealed

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Speaker 1: to me because I don't really like the anonymity of

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Speaker 1: these huge universities where you, you know, see someone and

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Speaker 1: you'll probably never see that first. And again, I like,

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Speaker 1: I like knowing my professors are like knowing my peers,

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Speaker 1: and that's the thing, and so that really appealed to me.

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Speaker 1: And then and then I met coach McKillop and that

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Speaker 1: that was kind of like the the final nail in

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Speaker 1: the coffin, because I mean, I don't know how it

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Speaker 1: was when you were getting recruited, Doug, but a lot

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Speaker 1: of the coaches just like they tell you what they

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Speaker 1: think you want to hear, you know, like you're gonna

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Speaker 1: get playing time. We think you're such a great player.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't think I was that good at the time. Um,

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Speaker 1: and so I was. I was maybe I was a

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Speaker 1: little too down on myself. But so when like the

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Speaker 1: these high major coaches were like, yeah, we see you

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Speaker 1: playing right away, I was like, well, I'm not so sure.

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Speaker 1: And then coach McKillop came in and like one of

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Speaker 1: the first thing he said was I'm gonna kick your ass.

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Speaker 1: That was the first thing he said. And I love that, Like,

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Speaker 1: I really responded well to that because I want someone

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Speaker 1: to challenge me and it's not just gonna, you know,

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Speaker 1: be nice to me. I want someone that's gonna bring

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Speaker 1: out the best of me. And that's what he did.

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Speaker 1: Fox Sports were Dio has the best sports talk lineup

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Speaker 1: in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox

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Speaker 1: Sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio

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Speaker 1: app search f s R to listen live. So you

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Speaker 1: show up there and yeah, you guys have a bunch

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Speaker 1: of pigners when you got there. Yeah, that's that's kind

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Speaker 1: of one thing Davidson has always had is coach mckiller

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Speaker 1: recruits really well overseas, So no matter when you play there,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have some some international flavor. I played with

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Speaker 1: teammates from Scotland, from England, from Nigeria, from Tunisia, Sweden,

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Speaker 1: um anywhere else Canada. Yeah, so very worldly. So who's

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Speaker 1: your roommate. My roommate is JP Coleman, Um John Paul Coolman. Uh.

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Speaker 1: We got to be known as the Pope in the

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Speaker 1: rabbi because of his Catholic upbringing and my Jewish upbringing

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Speaker 1: is pretty perfect. Um. He's one of my closest friends

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Speaker 1: and he was a hell of a player. Me and

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Speaker 1: him split Freshman of the Year on EURSE our freshman year. So,

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Speaker 1: uh so what what what's the What was the dorm

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Speaker 1: set up? Um? Pretty typical, just you know, big square

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Speaker 1: of a room. I had the left side, he had

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Speaker 1: the right side. No, no, you didn't. You didn't build

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Speaker 1: a loft thing, you just guys. No, no lofting, no lofting.

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Speaker 1: We actually had a room for like desks against the

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Speaker 1: back wall, so like you just walked in, you had

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Speaker 1: your bed on the left and then desk in the

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Speaker 1: back of the room. Like with the little we had

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Speaker 1: like I don't know but one ft by one ft

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Speaker 1: window that was all the light got in. But it

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Speaker 1: worked for us. So what was uh, what do you

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Speaker 1: remember about your freshman year other than your Freshman of

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Speaker 1: the Year, What do you remember about playing for me

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Speaker 1: killip about the entirety of the experience. I remember I

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Speaker 1: got my ask kicked pretty much all year, even though

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Speaker 1: I was playing really well. He was he was really

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Speaker 1: really tough on me. Um in a good in a

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Speaker 1: good way. I mean it was kind of uh, it

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Speaker 1: was really challenging. Now I would I would like go

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Speaker 1: to sleep with his voice in my head and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that, and so like, what are the kind of

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Speaker 1: things that he was he was saying to you? Was

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Speaker 1: it about toughness? Was about your defense? Was it about

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Speaker 1: your body? Was he did? Did? Did he curse? Was

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Speaker 1: he what is he motherfucking you? Like? What was the

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Speaker 1: what was his tactic that that he was getting on you? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he wasn't motherfucking me, but he definitely curse me. And

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Speaker 1: but you you you hit most of them. You know,

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Speaker 1: my body, my intensity, body language was a big one. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, competing every play. That's sort of just the

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Speaker 1: things like I didn't have that. I didn't play like

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Speaker 1: super high level high school basketball. I just played in

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Speaker 1: my local public league and then a you was the

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Speaker 1: best basketball I played until then, so I was not

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Speaker 1: accustomed to the intensity, to pace, the strength, that sort

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Speaker 1: of thing. Um, and I was adjusting well. But I

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Speaker 1: think he just saw that I could be a lot

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Speaker 1: better than what I was, and that's what he wanted

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Speaker 1: to get out of me. And I think one of

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Speaker 1: the thing that coach McKillop does so well is that

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Speaker 1: even when he's on your ass and he's absolutely crushing

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Speaker 1: you in film or in practice, um, I always knew

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Speaker 1: that he was doing it not because he wanted to

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Speaker 1: just bust my ass he did. He was doing it

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Speaker 1: because he cared about me. And I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of coaches struggle to have that balance. Either they care

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Speaker 1: about other guys and they're not hard enough on them,

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Speaker 1: or they're just too hard on them and the players

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Speaker 1: don't realize that the coach is doing it for their

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Speaker 1: benefit as well. Um, And he was. He was excellent

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Speaker 1: that because I never I never like held it against

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Speaker 1: him or um you know I was. I was never like,

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Speaker 1: I this guy, you know, screw him. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: He's just he's just busting my chop. So he was.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a testament to his his coaching, and

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Speaker 1: Bill who was the assistant, who is like your sounding board, right,

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Speaker 1: because anytime you have a guy who's on your ass

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Speaker 1: or so, they're always like, all right, he's bad cop,

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Speaker 1: I gotta play good job. Yeah, so they kind of

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Speaker 1: assistant Kyle did that by committee. Um Jim Fox was

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Speaker 1: the guy who recruited me, Um, and we were really

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Speaker 1: close and he was he was definitely a good outlet

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Speaker 1: for me in terms of being good cop after coach

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Speaker 1: came and laid the hammer on me. And uh, Landry Cosmolski,

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Speaker 1: who's the head coach now swath Moore was also a

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Speaker 1: really big resource for me because he was a big

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Speaker 1: guy too, and that's really helpful when you have someone

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Speaker 1: you know that played your position. And Landry had played

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Speaker 1: at Davidson before for coach and played overseas, so he

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Speaker 1: had been through it all and and that's a really

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Speaker 1: really nice asset for a young player to have. And

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Speaker 1: then Matt McKillip, whose coach, mckillips's son was on the

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Speaker 1: staff and that's helpful too because who gotten chewed out

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Speaker 1: more than him, you know, being coach coach. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it was kind of all by committee and the

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Speaker 1: staff there was was awesome and keeping me positive and

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Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. How good were you guys

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Speaker 1: are freshman and sophomore year, we were not very good.

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Speaker 1: Wed you switched leagues? No? No, they moved to the

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Speaker 1: tent after I was gone. I was. I was a

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Speaker 1: so can player in my whole career at the Southern Conference. Um,

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Speaker 1: we were not very good. We started playing really well

385
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Speaker 1: at the end of my sophomore year because our our

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00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 1: young pieces had started to click. I came into a

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00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 1: weird time to Davidson. There was kind of like this

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00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,879
Speaker 1: void left by Staff because I came in right after him.

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Speaker 1: Stuff was my host on my visit, and if he

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Speaker 1: had come back for his senior year, we would have

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Speaker 1: played together. So after he left, I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of the guys he had played with they had only

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Speaker 1: known playing with Staff. Okay, Stuff is gonna go score thirty.

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Speaker 1: The rest of us need to score forty or fifty combined,

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Speaker 1: and then we'll win the game. But after Stuff left,

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Speaker 1: there was this void left and UM me and JP

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Speaker 1: um some other young guys had to had to step

398
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Speaker 1: into fill it. And obviously we're not gonna We're not

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Speaker 1: gonna fill it. We had to find our own way

400
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Speaker 1: to find success. And then it wasn't until junior year

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Speaker 1: that we really started to roll and we won the

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Speaker 1: Southern Conference. Junior and senior year went to the tournament

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Speaker 1: both years and had had really good teams. UM ran

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Speaker 1: into Louisville our junior year in the first round. That

405
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Speaker 1: was tough, as they went to the final four that year.

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Speaker 1: And then senior year, we were beating Marquette all game

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Speaker 1: and then kind of threw the game away the last

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Speaker 1: two minutes and I lost on a buzzer beater. It's

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Speaker 1: Markette my senior year, which is not something I like

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Speaker 1: to talk about very much, but for the sake of entertainment,

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Speaker 1: I will will reopen that one. So, so step is

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Speaker 1: your host your his junior year. This is is coming

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Speaker 1: off of the n c A tournament where he almost

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Speaker 1: you know, um where they almost go to the final four.

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Speaker 1: Like he's just unbelievable. So what was he like? Like?

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Speaker 1: What was because because I'll tell you, like, I so

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Speaker 1: what I got to know Steph, you know, like right

418
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Speaker 1: before the tournament run and I found him to be

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Speaker 1: like the most unbelievably humble kid, and and part of

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Speaker 1: it was like he actually asked me after the game,

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Speaker 1: like what what which? What should I work on? And

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Speaker 1: I was like the dope that was like, hey, dude,

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Speaker 1: like just the thought like everything you do you step

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Speaker 1: in left right. I don't know if you can step

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Speaker 1: in right left as well or variant. But I don't know,

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Speaker 1: you know, in terms of you can you have an

427
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: incredibly quick release, but you know, maybe maybe vary in

428
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 1: terms of stepping in right left, especially when you're going

429
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,479
Speaker 1: you know, two year left or whatever. Um. But he

430
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 1: was like so kind and humble. But that was before

431
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: the tournament run. What was he like after the term run?

432
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 1: He's your host? What's a visit? Like Davidson, I got

433
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: the exact same impression. Um. I was expecting him to

434
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 1: be a little bit more like this is like my ship,

435
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm a big man on campus, and

436
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 1: he wasn't like that at all, which kind of blew

437
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: me away because I like to think of myself as

438
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: a humble guy. But I could never be as humble

439
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: as Deffinis, because he is. He's incredible and obviously his

440
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: career has gone to astronomical places since. But I got

441
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: the exact same impression that you did like he was.

442
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: He was great, and when he left for the NBA,

443
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 1: I was I was happy for him, but a part

444
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 1: of me was also, you know, upset selfishly that I

445
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: wouldn't get to play with him and and um, you

446
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: know have a year together with Um. Okay, so you

447
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 1: don't want to talk about the market game like the

448
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 1: last game you play in college. I mean, like, look,

449
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: I hate to break it to you, but everybody feels

450
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 1: shitty about it. I'm sure even teams that played well

451
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: or didn't give away a game. So now you're you know,

452
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: now you're how many years like we're like a decade

453
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: removed from it. Yeah, this is this is nine years after.

454
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 1: So what what do you remember now about what went wrong?

455
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 1: I remember having the lead. I think we're up like

456
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: ten with two minutes left, and I remember they made

457
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: like these crazy threes to get back in the game,

458
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: you know, like these guys that are like twenty five

459
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: percent three point shooters just all of a sudden catch fire. Um.

460
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: And I maybe miss remembering and you know, doing those

461
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: Marquette players and Injustice, So if so, forgive me, but

462
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: that's how I remember it, um. And then I remember

463
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: we still we we got the ball up one my

464
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: teammate passed sit to me, uh like to get rid

465
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: of the pressure, and I passed it back to them

466
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: because they double teamed me. And you know, of course,

467
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: hindsight being I should have just helped the ball they

468
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: would have had to found. It was like free throws.

469
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: I'm I'm an eight free throw shooter and make my

470
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: free throws. We go to the next game, but I

471
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: passed it back to him to try to kill more clock.

472
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 1: And then he tries to pass it to our off

473
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: guard who's like a free throw shooter, best free throw

474
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: shooting in the country, and he overthrows them and throws

475
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: it out of bounce. And then I switched on to

476
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: Vander Blue note in a last second on their play

477
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: and he makes a left hand lamp over me to

478
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: bet us what. I don't know. It was kind of

479
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 1: a blur. Um. I was in a I was in

480
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 1: a pretty dark place. I remember feeling like, what's weird.

481
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: I remember feeling like I let my let people around

482
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: me down, like let my teammates down. I let my

483
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: family down when I When me and my brother were

484
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: growing up, we loved the tournament, absolutely loved it. We

485
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: lived for those that first weekend in March when there

486
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: was you know, eight games on Thursday and Friday. We

487
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: lived for that time and I was finally playing in

488
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: it and playing well in it, and that was like

489
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: our year. You know, we had all the guys, we

490
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 1: were all senior years. And then you know, out with

491
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 1: out like I felt really shitty, really really tough. Like

492
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: still it's still hard to talk about now because I

493
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: gets unfulfilled potential. I get it. But what if I

494
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: could spin it positive for you? Okay? And that and

495
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: and it also is my biggest if you with with

496
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: college basketball now, um, is the fact that it mattered

497
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: to you. The fact that you cared about letting everybody

498
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: us down is what it's all about. That's what it's

499
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: supposed to all be about, right, And it means that

500
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: you must have loved those guys and playing with those

501
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 1: guys and four those coaches and your university so much

502
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: that when you lose the game, you don't feel bad

503
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: for yourself, You feel bad for what happens to everybody else.

504
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: That is that a fair way to look at it?

505
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 1: And that like that's what I mean because like kind

506
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: of like coach Sutton, Okay, so uh, they got to

507
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: the final four four years after, which is nothing short

508
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: of remarkable because of what happened they playing crash the

509
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: year after, but they got to the final four four

510
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: years later. But but we legitimately believe we could win

511
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: the whole thing. And I think we could have won

512
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: the whole thing. And I just remember sitting that locker

513
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: room in Syracuse, New York. We lost the Florida. They

514
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: were stacked and we just didn't play well and they're

515
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: probably better than us, but we also just played like

516
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: shit and um um, and I just remember like looking

517
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: around going like we let coach down, dude, Like this

518
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: could have been his championship. This could have been his

519
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: national championship team. We had it. We had you know,

520
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: same deals, like six scholarship, seven total seniors, you know,

521
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: old old guys that we just love playing together and

522
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: and and to me, though, that's that's what's missing. That's

523
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: what no one wants to talk about with all this

524
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: transfer stuff. Is I get it, you get different opportunities

525
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: and you know, um, and but we're so into the Hey,

526
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: I gotta go somewhere where the grass is greener, Like

527
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: that's it's not all about playing professionally. Playing professionally works

528
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: out on its own, right. What it's is about playing

529
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: for everybody else. What you said regarding uh, you know

530
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: what it's all about and feeling bad all that is

531
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: is perfectly true, and I agree with it, and it's rational.

532
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: I just I can't help. But you know, it's still

533
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: it's just gonna I think it's just one of those

534
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: things that's just gonna hurt, you know a little bit more.

535
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: If I was totally objective, you're absolutely right, and I

536
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: agree with you. Um And in regards to to what

537
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: you just said about the transfer stuff, I think one

538
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: of the reasons our Davidson's team was so special is

539
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: you know, I had Davidson. You know, besides staff, no one,

540
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: no one's thinking of you is like playing at Davidson

541
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: like you're going to the NBA, Like when you play

542
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: at Davidson at least you know. It's a little bit

543
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: different now because they're playing in the A ten and

544
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: they get bigger recruits, they have a you know, the program.

545
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: It's very well established now. It's in a different place

546
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: than when I was there. But no one was playing

547
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: at Davidson because they wanted to go to the NBA

548
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: playing at Davidson because you wanted to playing the tournament.

549
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: So that was like our goal. And when I was

550
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: working out in the summer, we're doing individual workouts in

551
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: the fall or spring whatever, I wasn't doing those workouts

552
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: because I wanted to get good so that I could

553
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: go pro. I never even thought of that of going

554
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: pro until I was a senior year. Um My, my

555
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: motivation was playing in the tournament. And that's what made

556
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: Davidson so special for me. And I think what made

557
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,959
Speaker 1: our made our bond so great is that that stuff,

558
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: like you said, it works itself out, you know, like

559
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: if you're good enough to play pro, you're gonna play pro.

560
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: And it happened for a lot of my teammates. I

561
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: think that Marquette team that the team I'm sorry that

562
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: my david is. A team that played against Marquette had

563
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: like six professionals on which is it's pretty remarkable for

564
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: a for a mid major lately. Um, okay, so you

565
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: deal with the devastation of losing then well that was

566
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: that was senior year. So that yeah, And I signed

567
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: with an Asian and who told me? So, who do

568
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: you signed me? I signed with? Aren't tell him and

569
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: Wasserman um in some crazy small world stuff and Arne

570
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: was way too big time to represent me. I'm like

571
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: a like a fringe draft guy. And Arn has you know,

572
00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: Blake Griffin and all these other big names. And but

573
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: he comes to the meeting personally because he wants to

574
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: represent me because he is from the suburbs of Philadelphia

575
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: just like me. He went to the same school my

576
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: dad went to. I don't know how he even knew that,

577
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: but he comes to the meeting and like that, blew

578
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: me away at aren't tell's in my agent coming, I'm

579
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: going to sign with him? Uh? And I think like

580
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: a year later he left the It was a year

581
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: or two. Two years after I signed with him, he

582
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: took the job as as vice president with the Pistons.

583
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: So I've been with Arn's son, Michael ever since, and uh,

584
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: Michael has been has been great, and we've had a

585
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: tremendous relationship working together for almost my entire career. Now

586
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: that's amazing. Okay, So um, so what was what? What

587
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: did they tell you your expectations could be and how

588
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: did it actually play out for your first year? So

589
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: they were really honest with me. They were like, you know,

590
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: you you could get drafted, um, but it's gonna be tough.

591
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: You know, you're gonna have NBA workouts if you if

592
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: you crushed those NBA workouts, and you could get drafted

593
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: in a second round. But what we're looking at is

594
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: probably going overseas. And my head space at the time

595
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: was like, you know, that's cool. I'm going to try

596
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: to make it the NBA. It's always been my dream.

597
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: Let's give it a go. Um. But if I go

598
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: over seas, that's cool too, Like let's see the world

599
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: for a couple of years and then and then I'll

600
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: come back and settle down and get a job behind

601
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: a desk or whatever. That was kind of my head

602
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: space UM at the time. And Maccabi till Aviv signed

603
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: me right out of school because I had the Israeli

604
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: passport already UM, because I played for the Israeli under

605
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: twenty national team earlier. And at the time I didn't

606
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: know how valuable that passport was, but I came to

607
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: learn it once I became a professional. UM. So I

608
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: had the passport, I sund Maccabi Tel Aviv. For my

609
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: first two years, I didn't play at all. Really, my

610
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: rookie year and the Maccabi team I was on was incredible.

611
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: They on the year early championship. That year, I had

612
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: Joe Engels, Big Sofo, Sean James, Ricky Hickman, h yrese Rice.

613
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: I had a really good team, Devin Smith to a

614
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 1: lot of veterans to learn from my rookie year. UM,

615
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: and that second year I started to play a little

616
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: bit more, but my team was bad. The team didn't

617
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 1: succeed UM and they cut me. So after two years,

618
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: I was cut from a cobby and I was looking

619
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: for a job. Let's let's let's let's go, let's go.

620
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: Let's go back one second. Israeli Under twenty team. What

621
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: year was that? That was after my freshman year of college,

622
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 1: so I was since I was nineteen. So you're nineteen

623
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 1: years old. You fly to Israel right in the summer

624
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: for training. Yeah, um, what do you remember about that experience?

625
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: I remember coach mckill was really nervous that we were

626
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: gonna commit like an infraction like then they were going

627
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 1: to give me like an impermissible benefit or something. So

628
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: they wanted to give me a car to just be

629
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: able to drive myself around to go to practice too,

630
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: you know, visit people and just stuff like that. But gosh,

631
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: mckillo said, no, so I just stayed at this. They

632
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: have like an Olympic training center, which sounds a little

633
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: it sounds nicer than it is. It's not Windsors that

634
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 1: we were wind Yeah. Yeah yeah. People You tell people like, yeah,

635
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: we'll go to the Olympic Training Center, and they think,

636
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: like the US Training Center, which is incredible. And I

637
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 1: was there. I trained over there a couple of different times,

638
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: and I don't want I was there. I don't think

639
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:47,760
Speaker 1: they had I think it was a dart and floor,

640
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: you know that. Um it just was not the Only

641
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: thing that was cool was it was close to um

642
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: North hurt Celia. It was just south of what's that Tanya,

643
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: right yeah, right right near in the tiny which is

644
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: kind of cool. It's like the last big city before

645
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: you get the hype. Then you go to Hypa, but

646
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: it's on the water in that part. I mean, the

647
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: whole location thing was cool, but the actual facility, like

648
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: the weight room, You're like, are you kidding me here?

649
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: Like this is the best we can do? Who is? So?

650
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: Who were the best? What were the Israelis like to you?

651
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: As an American jear training with them. They were cool.

652
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 1: They were they were really cool. I think because we

653
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: were pretty young still, no one had any um like

654
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 1: jealousy that I was like there to steal their job

655
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: because they knew I was in college and I wasn't.

656
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: I wasn't like trying to go pro there. So they

657
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,439
Speaker 1: were nice because they knew like they needed a big guy,

658
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: so I was just gonna I was gonna help on

659
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: that fron. So they were really cool. Um and then

660
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: you play you play in a tournament with them? What

661
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 1: did you play with them? Yeah, we played in the

662
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: European Championships. And a funny story from that one is

663
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,439
Speaker 1: like I remember for the first game we played against

664
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 1: Sweden and the coach like calls this side. He's like, hey,

665
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,760
Speaker 1: I just know I want you to help rebound and defend,

666
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: and if you do those two things are going to

667
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 1: be really happy. Like okay, coach you, I'm just happy

668
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: to be here, like I don't I don't care, I

669
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: don't need the ball whatever. Um. So I think I

670
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: think I scored like fourteen points against Sweden and we lose,

671
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: and then the next game against Georgia, I think I

672
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: had like thirty three points or something. Um. And I've

673
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: really wanted to be petty and go to the coach

674
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: and be like, so do you still want me to

675
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: focus on rebounding and defending or but I helped. I

676
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 1: held my tongue. Uh. That is that is hilarious. Um.

677
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 1: What was the how would you just like? How different

678
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: was it style of basketball wise from the States like

679
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,240
Speaker 1: Philly than a you than a year Davidson. Now you're playing,

680
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: you know, in the euro Under twenty national Championships. I

681
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 1: felt like, you know, its just such a different style

682
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: of basketball. What was that like for you? It was

683
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: it was good Like I played. I played really well.

684
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 1: I think I ended up being the leading scorer of

685
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: the tournament. Um. And I liked it. It It was like

686
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,240
Speaker 1: I think it suited me. It was really physical, which

687
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: you might think, like looking at me, that that would

688
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: be bad for me because I'm not some you know,

689
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: hulk or whatever. But it was really good because I

690
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: was able to like use that aggressiveness and get to

691
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 1: the line up. And I've been a good free throw shooter,

692
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 1: so that was it was really cool. And I liked

693
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: how it's a little bit more cerebral in Europe and

694
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:34,439
Speaker 1: that really suits me as opposed to a you or UM.

695
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: I mean especially at you where it's just up and down.

696
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: But the European game, if I had to give you

697
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 1: two words to describe it, it's it's physical and it's cerebral.

698
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: Yeah I would, I would agree. Okay, so let's go

699
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: back and say now you're you're in Israel. Okay, but

700
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: you first you make my Macabby tellby what's it like

701
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: when they loaned you out? Like you're I think you're

702
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 1: loaned out to be shown right, and so you're owned

703
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: by the big club, you're a younger play are like

704
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 1: you're on loan? What is that experience? Like? That's that was?

705
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: That was fun um because I wanted to leave for

706
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: a few months it became clear that I wasn't gonna play,

707
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 1: and I had a long term contract with Maccaby, So

708
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 1: I said, you know, to a coach to management, like hey, like,

709
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: let me go play and I'll come back next year

710
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: and they'll be better off for it. It's better than

711
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: just doing individuals after practice and hoping to get good

712
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: runs in in the scrimmage time or whatever. And I

713
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: don't think it was until like February that they agreed

714
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: to loan me out. And then I think, like my

715
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: third game was against Maccabi, and Maccaby was paying like

716
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: half my salary at the time, and the new club

717
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,720
Speaker 1: is paying the other half. So it's a really weird

718
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: conflict of interest. Is like you're trying to beat this

719
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: club that signs your checks, and I didn't know how

720
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: to really deal with that, you think. I think once

721
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: I got on the court, you know, it just takes

722
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: over and you just play. But like beforehand, I was like,

723
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: this is weird, Like these guys are my friends and

724
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: this club pays me and I'm still living in their

725
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:11,479
Speaker 1: apartment and stuff like that. That's that that is weird.

726
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: I always I thought the coolest thing about playing Israel

727
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: was like Thanksgiving. I played with the guy Jesse Palters

728
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 1: had been there forever and he had a big Thanksgiving party,

729
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you realize how many Americans

730
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: are there? Right there's um, you know, we had guys.

731
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: Maccabi obviously had several, but you had second division guys.

732
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 1: And I remember being at a party on Thanksgiving at

733
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: his apartment and there's like sixty American basketball players. Because

734
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 1: everybody first and second division, Like I just wanted to talk,

735
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: just want to hang out with Americans, Like even if

736
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 1: we didn't like playing against some of these guys, you

737
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: just you became kind of became really close knit. What

738
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: was it like you were also though, like you said,

739
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 1: you're a member of Maccabi Tel Aviv And for people

740
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 1: who don't realize this, not every country is like this,

741
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: but basketball is super important Israel and copies of the club.

742
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: Were you at that point in time where your celebrity

743
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 1: status when you're young with my copy tellity? Um? Not really.

744
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: You might get recognized a few times by like the

745
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: people that go to the games, but no, it wasn't

746
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: until until I came back to Maccaby for my second stint. Yeah,

747
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: I think that was when I started to get more

748
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: recognized because I had a bigger role in the club

749
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: and I had also played more for the senior national

750
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: team at that point and that that had changed. Um,

751
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: you know that gets you some exposure to different types

752
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: of fans that will know you through that and not

753
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: just through Maccabi. So I don't think it until I

754
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: came back that I got more recognition. Okay, so you

755
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: leave Israel, you go to Greece. I think Greece is

756
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: famous for everybody makes half as much as they You

757
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: only get half as much money as they say you're

758
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: going to get. Did you get all your money in Greece?

759
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: I got all my money I have. I have a

760
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 1: lot of great Greek stories, um, probably so many to

761
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: to discuss your Most of them aren't positive though, Like

762
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 1: I had a great experience in Greece, and I feel

763
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: I feel bad for all the guys that hated there

764
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 1: because and understandably so, like that a lot of Greek

765
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: clubs are not professional, they don't pay guys, blah blah blah.

766
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: My club was on time every month with the payments.

767
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: And then um, you know a few months after, we

768
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: found out that like the owner had to like forfeit

769
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 1: the club and he was like wanted for money laundering.

770
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: And I have no idea if any of that is true,

771
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,720
Speaker 1: but like, if if that's true, and he was using

772
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 1: the club to launder his money and I'm the benefit

773
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: of dirty money, it's pretty crazy. Well, I played in Russia,

774
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,879
Speaker 1: and I can tell you I'm definitely the beneficiary dirty money.

775
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: There's like no question there. So you know, I mean,

776
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: so came through. What's that like to go back to Israel? Uh? Well,

777
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 1: I was also like really contemplating retiring after Greece because

778
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 1: I didn't have any good offers. Really, I had gone

779
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: down in money to take the grease job, and then

780
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 1: I didn't have any offers, Like I went down further.

781
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 1: I took a job in Ashdod in Israel, right, so

782
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: can I take my astor real quick? So I was

783
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: supposed to play. I signed with Inner Performances and it

784
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 1: was a weird years when the Bozeman A and B

785
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: passports first came out, So to play in Israel I

786
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: would have been a Bosman being not in Israeli. So

787
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: they're like this is crazy. Well have you play for

788
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 1: this team of like all my agents to clients and

789
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:47,919
Speaker 1: we're gonna play in Russia, but we're gonna train in

790
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 1: Italy And all you gotta do is go get years

791
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: really passport and I didn't have it. So I fly

792
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 1: to Israel and uh they have like their Israeli agent

793
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,839
Speaker 1: meet me at the airport, takes me over to immigration

794
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: and and um when I get to the office, they're like,

795
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: was you live and I go, well, I live currently

796
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: in Italy. They're like, well, you cannot get Israeli passports

797
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 1: without living, you know, And he just didn't. All you

798
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: do is give me an address and tell me to lie,

799
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 1: and I would have been straight, you know. So he

800
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 1: didn't and I'm honest. And so they're like, you know,

801
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: you have to live here, must to live here for

802
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: a year and you get the passport. So I go

803
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: and tell that. So now we're scrambling. So they have

804
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: me go and do a workout in ash Dot. Now

805
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: this is remember this is two thousand and ash Dot

806
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: is kind of sort of bottom of the league at

807
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 1: that point in time. And I remember like I hadn't eaten.

808
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,879
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm right out of college and I'm I'm

809
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 1: thinking all these negative thoughts, like I, you know, I

810
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: just got married, I didn't you know, I didn't have

811
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: a gig, blah blah blah blah blah. So I do

812
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 1: it right, and so I'm like in a bad place

813
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: and they haven't work out, and I go hop in

814
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 1: and I was there were some things I could I

815
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: could really do, but there's things that I just was

816
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: not a good as you point out headspace. And anyway,

817
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: I remember driving back from Mashdod Like okay, So I

818
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 1: asked the guy, like, so what kind of money would

819
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:23,839
Speaker 1: I be making Mashdod as opposed and B And He's like, uh,

820
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: two or three thousand a month? And I was like,

821
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 1: are you are you fucking kidding me? I was just like, okay,

822
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: I guess my career is over. Um, so now you're

823
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: now you're back with Maccabi tel Aviv, Like, now you're

824
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,879
Speaker 1: kind of a different person. Who is your coach when

825
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: he came back a coach when I came back? Was

826
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: never spa here? What was he like? Uh, he's a

827
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: really good guy. I liked I liked him a lot.

828
00:45:53,760 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: I thought that some of his um like is no, no,

829
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 1: it's and it's not exactly fair because I don't know

830
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: who's like, who's making personnel decisions right there, it's him

831
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 1: or the GM or whatever. Like I thought he kind

832
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: of just had to do with what he got and

833
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 1: I don't know if like it seemed like the team

834
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: didn't have great like cohesion that year. Um, So I

835
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 1: played with him. I played for him my first year back,

836
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: and then the current coach got the job halfway through

837
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: my second year. So I've played for coach Farropolis now

838
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: for this will be like my fourth year playing for him,

839
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: I think, no, third, three and a half. So yeah,

840
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: if I played for him for a while now and

841
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 1: we have a really good relationship, which is great, It

842
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: makes your life a lot easier as a player when

843
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: you have a good relationship with the coach and you

844
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 1: have consistency, like you have something that everybody in Europe

845
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: kind of strives for, which is like it's gonna be

846
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: in the same place a couple of years in a row.

847
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: So I don't have that. All my career has Like

848
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,240
Speaker 1: when people ask for the like how's your overseas experience,

849
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: I'm like, you gotta ask someone else, because I've been

850
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 1: so I've been in great locations. I've never played in Russia,

851
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 1: Ukraine or Poland or any of these really cold places

852
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: with not a lot to do. Like until this past

853
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: year in Spain, I had always been on the Mediterranean,

854
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: which is ridiculous, And then even last year in Spain,

855
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: I was a thirty minute drive from the Atlantic Ocean. Um. Like,

856
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: I've always lived in really cool places with great people

857
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: and great food. So I don't know how a lot

858
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: of these guys that like, you know, grind in Finland

859
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 1: or Estonia. I don't know how they do it, but

860
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: you know, more power to them. They they must they

861
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,479
Speaker 1: must really love the game, because you hear these great

862
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 1: stories of these guys coming from like Bulgaria and work

863
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: their way up to yearly my team might. Now, actually

864
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: that's exactly his story. He started out in Bulgaria making

865
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 1: like two thousand dollars a month, and now he's with

866
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: me at mccaby making hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's amazing.

867
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: Angelo Coliaro played at USF. Yeah, that is amazing, amazing. Right,

868
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 1: It's just it's just a war of attrition, right, It's

869
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: it's how much work ethic you have. War of attriction.

870
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: You gotta keep your confidence up. You got to find

871
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: the right fit, right job. You know, Like if I

872
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: go back and did it, do it? I didn't. We

873
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 1: won the Russian League, but I didn't play that much

874
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 1: my my first year, you know, like split time and

875
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,240
Speaker 1: we get a lead and they play all the Russian guys,

876
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 1: and so I mean I kind of privately wish I

877
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 1: would have gone and done the three or four grand

878
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 1: a month thing and just got my confidence back. As

879
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 1: a score learned the European game, and I still might

880
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: be playing Hell up until a couple of years ago.

881
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:48,720
Speaker 1: But okay, so why did you go to Spain? Um, well,

882
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: my contract was up with mccaby and that was right

883
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: when Corona hit. Was when we were working on the

884
00:48:55,800 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: extension and uh yeah and boom Corona colms and I

885
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 1: was playing really well that year. I was having my

886
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 1: best year statistically, We're having our best season as a team.

887
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:11,760
Speaker 1: And then Corona, So all those previous talks get thrown

888
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: out there, Like, Jake, we don't know the budget, we

889
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 1: don't know what it's gonna do to you know, everything,

890
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: so we can't really we can't really make you an

891
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: offer because we don't know what our budget is going

892
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: to be. Like okay, well I understand, but I'm getting

893
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 1: offers from these other teams and I can't pass on

894
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: everything to wait for you guys. So it basically just

895
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: became I didn't really want to go, but I kind

896
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,879
Speaker 1: of just I needed a job. So and then I'd

897
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 1: always wanted to play in Spain and one of my

898
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 1: best friends was on the club there. One of my

899
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: Davidson guys actually was done the team there, and that

900
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: was a big Christier poets. So we played together last

901
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,479
Speaker 1: year in Spain, which was which was really really cool,

902
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 1: really special to be able to play with him again.

903
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,399
Speaker 1: Um kind of kept me saying through last year, which

904
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: was a really tough year for me. So what was that? Like?

905
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: What was because we we had on Charles Jenkins and

906
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: he was in Greece during COLVID what was Spain line? Well, Uh,

907
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 1: my wife and I had our first daughter in September

908
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 1: of so I came and I should I should say

909
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 1: Israel finished at the end of July because they postponed

910
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 1: the league and then brought it back to finish. Um,

911
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 1: so we finished end of July. I go home. We

912
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: have a house in Davis to North Carolina. I go

913
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 1: home for like three weeks. I reported training camp practice

914
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 1: for two weeks. I fly back for the birth of

915
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 1: our daughter. I spent like a week at home with them.

916
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: I go back to Spain, thinking my wife and daughter

917
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 1: will join me like around Christmas time, once we have

918
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 1: her passport and uh, you know we get the visas

919
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, so we'll be apart from like

920
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 1: two two and a half months. No big deal. They

921
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: didn't make it over until March so we were apart

922
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 1: for six months, um, and that was really really tough

923
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: because I felt like I was being a bad dad.

924
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not there. I'm missing all the all

925
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 1: the time with her, and my poor wife has to

926
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:17,320
Speaker 1: do everything on her own. And to compound that, UM,

927
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: in my house alone in Spain, the city's closed down,

928
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: there's nothing to do. I can't go to a restaurant,

929
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. I even contracted COVID in January. It

930
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: was just it was kind of a big mess, um,

931
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 1: with a bunch of different factors that made it made

932
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 1: it a hard year. You come back to Israel, Okay,

933
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: so what's the what's the goal? What's what's left? Is

934
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: this just you want to keep playing to your emotionally

935
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: you don't want to play anymore? Is it that you

936
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: want the national team to try and you know, do

937
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: what Slovenia has done or do it the other Like

938
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 1: I want to keep playing until we try, we metal

939
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,439
Speaker 1: or we do well and get the Olympics. Like, what's

940
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 1: the what's the goal? What's left to accomplish? Yeah? So

941
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 1: the national team has been a really cool part and

942
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 1: a really unexpected part of my career. To be able

943
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 1: to play for that, and we have the European Championships

944
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: coming up next summer and that'll be a big, big

945
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: thing for me. I've been really looking forward to that.

946
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 1: But for right now, UM, I'm really glad to bear

947
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,839
Speaker 1: and I'm still having fun doing a job. So as

948
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 1: long as that continues, I'll keep doing it. But I

949
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 1: have no uh, no inhibitions about or no hesitations about

950
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: hanging them up when I don't when i feel like

951
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 1: I'm done or i feel like I'm not liking it anymore.

952
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 1: I've done a lot in my career and there's a

953
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 1: lot more out there than basketball. So let's see what

954
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 1: it's that's like. Um, Okay, last thing. If if there's

955
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 1: a there's a kid who's or a dad of a

956
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:44,720
Speaker 1: kid who's listening to this, he's in the suburbs anywhere

957
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 1: in America, and the kid just went through a Grossberg

958
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: and he's in the six eight to six ten variety,

959
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 1: what would you tell him in terms of mentality work,

960
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 1: what he needs to do, uh and try and be

961
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 1: not necessary to mimic your career, but make make a

962
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 1: light for himself and mask by the way, then well,

963
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily has to be a big guy. I

964
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: think one of the things I did right was that

965
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: I set really good short term goals for myself. When

966
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 1: I was in high school, I just wanted to get

967
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: a scholarship, um, and that that drove me to to

968
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:21,439
Speaker 1: work out and work hard and do all the things

969
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: I needed to do. And then um, when I was

970
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 1: in college, I just wanted to go to the tournament. Uh,

971
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: and that's what drove me to work hard and do

972
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 1: all the things I needed to do. And then you know,

973
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 1: being a professional, I just now my short term goal is,

974
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:37,800
Speaker 1: you know, win the championship at the end of the season,

975
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 1: or uh, you know, win national team games. It's it's

976
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 1: just setting short term goals and you touched on earlier.

977
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:46,320
Speaker 1: You let the long term stuff take care of itself.

978
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 1: I think that's the that's the best advice I can give.

979
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: And if and if your kid, or if if it's

980
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 1: you that's listening as the player, if you really love

981
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 1: the game and you you thoroughly love it, you're gonna

982
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: you're gonna work at it. You're gonna do of the

983
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 1: things you need to do, make the sacrifice you need

984
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: to make to to get really good. And if you don't,

985
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 1: then you won't and that's fine, and then basketball is

986
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: not for you. There's a lot of other cool stuff

987
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 1: out there in the world. Um, but if you if

988
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 1: you really love it, you're gonna you're gonna work out

989
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 1: it awesome this great advice. Uh. What was your go

990
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 1: to order in Spain when you had to mobile order

991
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 1: things because there's no restaurants. Um. The I was in

992
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 1: northwest Spain. So the zamparins, which are the scallops, they're

993
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: the local delicacy. There were incredible zamparin Is that is

994
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: that the best food you've eat internationally? That's definitely up there.

995
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: I mean the food in Israel is tremendous. Um. Uh,

996
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 1: It's it's so hard to pick, like the food and

997
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:50,479
Speaker 1: grease was great, that's I mean, scalops are my favorite food,

998
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: so it definitely had I would say, yeah. So yeah,

999
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 1: the zamparine is in Spain number one? Um. And the

1000
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,799
Speaker 1: one place that you have not yet gone that you'd

1001
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 1: like to go, not necessarily to play, just to go

1002
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: to see Um. I have not yet been to Scandinavia

1003
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:10,840
Speaker 1: and that kind of bugs me because I've been like

1004
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 1: thirty European countries and I've never been to Scandinavia. I

1005
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: really want to go visit my friend in Sweden. That's

1006
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 1: probably to a bucket list. Thank ye Hey dude, this

1007
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,760
Speaker 1: has been great catching up with you. I really appreciate

1008
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:24,919
Speaker 1: you spend some time and let's catch up offline really

1009
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 1: really soon. Okay, all right, Doug, thanks you. I appreciate

1010
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 1: you have me appreciate it. My thanks to Jake for

1011
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 1: sharing with us his story. Pretty awesome stuff. If you

1012
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 1: have any comments questions at got Leave shows the Twitter handle,

1013
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:42,239
Speaker 1: go to the Doug Outlive Show page on Facebook. If

1014
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 1: you want to comment something you liked or a question

1015
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 1: you have, or something you want to have commented on

1016
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 1: our next pod, we'll do that. We'll do some do

1017
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 1: a little mail bag if you will. Add got Leave

1018
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,720
Speaker 1: Show on Twitter and the Doug Otlip Show page on Facebook.

1019
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 1: Remember the Doug Outleap Show is daily three to six

1020
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 1: Eastern twelve three Pacific on the I Heart Radio app,

1021
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:03,840
Speaker 1: Fox Sports dot Com or Series X. In the meantime,

1022
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 1: I thinks and happy New Year to Jake Cohen and

1023
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 1: I hope you are well as well. Remember to download

1024
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 1: rate review and subscribe. I'm Doug Gottlieb this is all

1025
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 1: bolt