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To grab your Gin 45 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: four theray gun today, go to therapy gun dot com 46 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: slash TVG. Right now, that's thera gun dot com slash TVG. 47 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: Now let's jump into the show. Welcome to the Therapy 48 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: for Black Girls podcast, but weekly conversation about mental health, 49 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 1: personal development, and all the small decisions we can make 50 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, 51 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:15,399 Speaker 1: Dr Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. 52 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: For more information or to find a therapist in your area, 53 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: visit our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. 54 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: While I hope you love listening to and learning from 55 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute 56 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: for relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, 57 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining me for Session one two 58 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. Today we're digging 59 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: into the topic of consensual nonmonogamy. While monogamous relationships maybe 60 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: the relationship types we hear about most often, they're definitely 61 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,839 Speaker 1: not the only relationship types that exist. Here to help 62 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: us break it all down is an expert in this area, 63 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: Ruby B. Johnson. Ruby has been a therapist for over 64 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: nineteen years and a sex therapist for six years. She's 65 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: in private practice in plain O, Texas and identifies as 66 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: a queer and polyamorous woman. She specializes in ethically non 67 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: monogamous partnerships and families, kink and b d s, M, desire, discrepancy, 68 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: and infidelity. Outside of therapy, her passions are speaking and writing. 69 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: Ruby and I discuss some of the most common misconceptions 70 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: about consensual nonmonogamy, how to determine whether a polyamorous relationship 71 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: is a good fit for you, some considerations in a 72 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:48,799 Speaker 1: polyamorous relationship, how to unpack some of the stigma related 73 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: to consensual non monogamy, And of course, she shares some 74 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: of her favorite resources. If anything stands out to you 75 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 1: while enjoying our conversation, please be sure to share it 76 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 1: with us. Use in the hashtag tv G in session 77 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, Ruby, 78 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm very excited. So 79 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: this has been a widely requested topic. The community has 80 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: wanted me to find someone to come on and talk 81 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: about polyamorous relationships open relationships, and so I heard through 82 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: colleagues that you were the expert in this area. So 83 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: I'm thrilled that. I don't know about that, But how 84 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: did you get into this as your specialty. I got 85 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: into private practice in and before that, I started identifying 86 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: as polyamorous myself at age thirty eight, so it's about 87 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: ten years ago. So when I got into private practice, 88 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 1: found that many people who are polyamorous who are in 89 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: open relationships did not have the best experiences with therapists, 90 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: that therapists were not necessarily competent in the area. They 91 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: thought what they did with a monogamous couple, they can 92 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: do with a polyamorous partnerships, and they were just not 93 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: having good experiences with stigma and all of that stuff. 94 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: So I decided, you know what, it's the community that 95 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: I live in, so I'll start working with that community 96 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: as my niche. I always find it so interesting that 97 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: I think a lot of therapists have that same story, right, 98 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: is that we identify as a part of a community 99 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: or we have a certain struggle ourselves, and then that 100 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: becomes a part of our story as a clinician. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, 101 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: it extends beyond polyamory. There's also the queer community, the 102 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: king community. And so with me having those various identities myself, 103 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: I feel like I have a certain passion about it. 104 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 1: I have a level of putting attention to it and 105 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: recognizing that not only is it that therapeutic intervention in 106 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: the way of modalities and theories, but it's also the 107 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: socio political angle that comes into it, which I think 108 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,679 Speaker 1: we sometimes forget that we operate in this vast system. 109 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: Like you can't necessarily separate the things. You can't separate it. 110 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: So can you give us a crash course on some 111 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: of the language in the terms that people in the 112 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: community use or things that people might need to be 113 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: aware of. So you've already said ethical nonmonogamy, So is 114 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: that kind of like the umbrella term. Yes, this ethical 115 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: nominogamy or consensual non monogamy, that's the broad umbrella. And 116 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: then underneath that you have open relationships, you have people 117 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: who are have what we call designer relationships, you have 118 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: polyamorous relationships, you have people in the lifestyle. So there's 119 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: like solo polyamory. There's all of these vast relationship dynamics 120 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: or constellations or ways that you can be in your 121 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: love style underneath considerual nominogamy or ethical nominogamy. I'm gonna 122 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: talk about polyamory specifically, and the way we define polyamory 123 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: is many loves. A hard definition that I like to 124 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: use uses multiple simultaneous relationships that can either be committed 125 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: or romantic where everyone consents and everyone is aware of 126 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: what's going on and what is happening. And so that's 127 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: the working definition that I have within my practice. There's 128 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: the common triad, which is three people within a relationship 129 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: that sometimes it can be a couple wanting to have 130 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:27,119 Speaker 1: what they call a third make a throuble, And there's 131 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: this different types of constellation. There's the quad whereas two 132 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 1: couples together. There is what we call the polyamorous or 133 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: the polycule, where you have the people who are in 134 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: relationships and all their partners and so it's a huge lexicon, 135 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: really huge. Yeah, and so there's a difference between being 136 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: in a polyamorous relationship and an open relationship. Can you 137 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: talk about that difference? Yeah, Um, a polyamorous relationship. I 138 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 1: like to tell people that you can view it as 139 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: a type of open relationship, but it's not necessar necesarily 140 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: what they call an open relationship because there's a focus 141 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: on those romantic, long term connections within an open relationship, 142 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 1: and you can design it to look anywhere you want. 143 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: You're open to multiple partners, you're open to multiple sexual relationships. 144 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: Some people put the lifestyle or swinging underneath open relationships. 145 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: It doesn't have to specifically focus on having those long 146 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,959 Speaker 1: term romantic connections. Someone who was open is just welcoming 147 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: to emotional and physical connections, but not necessarily long term. Okay, 148 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: So that's kind of like the defining characteristic is the 149 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: long term nature of the relationships. Yes, got it. Okay, 150 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: And so you mentioned another term that I had not 151 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: heard of. Did you say solo polyamorous relationships? Yes, solo pome. 152 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: Can you say more about that? Solo polyamorous is an 153 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 1: individual who lives alone typically and then they have the 154 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: separation of finances and they have a their relationships, but 155 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: they're not hierarchical in nature, so they are with people, 156 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 1: but there's not any cohabitating or co mingling of finances 157 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: and necessary per se living space. And the solo polyamorous 158 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: like to say that they're their primary partner. They're the 159 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 1: one that they're in the primary relationship with. They come first, 160 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: and then they have the other relationships around them. Got it? Okay? 161 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: And you mentioned the term designer relationship. Is that just 162 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: kind of designing what you would like your relationships and different. Yes, 163 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: that's designing what you would like your relationship to look like. 164 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: There's all types of ways that people do relationships. I 165 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: have clients who they have what we call social monogamy, 166 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: you know, and how they present to the world is 167 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: as an analogamous couple with family, etcetera. But what they 168 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,839 Speaker 1: do outside of that, they don't have physical monogamy. They 169 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: have other outside relationship sort of friends with benefits or 170 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: hook ups, but it doesn't disrupt the social representation of 171 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: who they are as a family or as a couple. 172 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 1: And so you have that way that you can design 173 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: your relationship to look like that. There's a great book 174 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: called Designer Relationships by Mark Michaels and Patricia Johnson, and 175 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: they actually talk about in that book how you can 176 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 1: define what you want your relationship to look like and 177 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: some parameters and ideas on how to do that. Got it, 178 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: And I am curious to hear Ruby. So you said 179 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: that you begin to identify yourself ten years ago as 180 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: being in or wanting to be in a polyamorious relationship. 181 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: Can you give us a sense of the timeline for 182 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: like when this became something that more people were talking about, 183 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: because basically, what you're saying is that relationships don't have 184 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: to look just one way. And I think when you 185 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: say it, it seems really like, yeah, like they can 186 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: look however we want. But of course societally, that is 187 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: not how it has been. At what point did this 188 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: become something that more people were talking about in exploring, 189 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: I would say over the last decade decade and a half, 190 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: it has become Back when I was I was thirty eight, 191 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: so that was like eleven somewhere around there. Polyamory wasn't 192 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: in my preview. I didn't know what the term was 193 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: until I met this person that I started dating and 194 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: they introduced me to it. And so over the last decade, 195 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: the prevalence the visibility, the representation of polyamory has shifted. 196 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: There was a whole lot of stigma attached to actually 197 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: what it was like, Was it polygamy? Was it always 198 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: about a couple wanting to find a third and so 199 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 1: it was viewed with a whole lot of stigma. But 200 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: slowly over the last decade, we've had people come out 201 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: with more books, we have folks like this doing more 202 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 1: interviews on podcasts, and so it's start to become seen 203 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: as a viable relationship choice other than monogamy. And so 204 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: I would say it has increased over the last decade. 205 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: Got it. Got it? So what are some of the 206 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: common myths that you hear ruby related to ethical nonmonogamy. 207 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: Probably tons, Yes. One of them is that it's all 208 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: about sex, and it's not all about sex when it 209 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: comes to polyamorous relationships. So that's what I'm going to 210 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: focus on there. But also there are some aspects where 211 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 1: it is about sex, but that is in the lifestyle. 212 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: So it's important that we separate the lifestyle or swinging 213 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: from polyamory. But sometimes people conflate the two together, and 214 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: so one of them is that it's all about sex, 215 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: which is not true. Sex is a part of it, 216 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: but it's more about the relational and emotional connection. Another 217 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: one is that people who are polyamorous are non commit 218 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: That means that there's a struggle with committing to one 219 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: particular person, and so it's not necessarily non committal. It's 220 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: the way we do commitment is different. It's not commitment 221 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: to one person without being able to commit to another person. 222 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 1: It's a lot more broad in the definition of commitment. 223 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: Another one is that people who polyamorous are full of disease, 224 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: sexually transmitted diseases. It's not true. Actually, people who are 225 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: polyamorous are more conscious about safer sex practices than than 226 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: many other groups. Another one is that I'm going to 227 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: take a risk in saying this, but it's this is 228 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: a white folks thing. I'm like, No, there's a whole 229 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: community of black people that are polyamorous, and so it's 230 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: representation may have it as white affluent that's what polyamorous 231 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: couples look like, but actually there's a strong black and 232 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: poly community that is out there, which is what I'm 233 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: a part of of. And so those are a few 234 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: of the myths that's out there about it. Mm hmmm, yeah, 235 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: I appreciate you sharing that. I mean, because I do 236 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: think that you know, like anything, when not a lot 237 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: of people have been talking about it, or it is 238 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: newer to the lexicon than people have all kinds of 239 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: misconceptions about what this means. Right, Yeah, they'll have a 240 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: lot of misconceptions, and it's usually based upon media representation. 241 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: Is what is being fed to us about something, because 242 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: our information tends to come from what people feed us 243 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: rather than what we go and search for. So I 244 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: know from me, I had my own stigmas and and 245 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: miss misconceptions and misrepresentations myself. So I had to go 246 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: and do my own independent research for myself, and I 247 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: did a lot of reading and a lot of talking 248 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: to a lot of people, and so me immersing myself 249 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: within the community was the best thing that I could 250 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: do because then I got a real flavor for what 251 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: was going on and what was happening allowed myself to 252 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: be open to it. Right. So, let's say that if 253 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: there's someone listening or consuming this interview and they are 254 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: curious and thinking, maybe I want to talk with my 255 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: current partner about us being open to consensual non monogamy. 256 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: How might they bring that up with a partner. That's 257 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: a good one. Um carefully. Yes. One of the things 258 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: that I encourage is that you get your education first, 259 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: start doing your own research, and presented to your partner 260 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: as something that is a curiosity, presented to them as 261 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: something hey, this is what I read about on thinking 262 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: about what are your thoughts about it? But kind of 263 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: do it in that way that is informed as much 264 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: as possible and presented as an idea, not as this 265 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: is what I want to do. That's my biggest suggestion. 266 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: When couples come to me and they're wanting to open 267 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: their relationship up, the first thing that I have them 268 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: do is read get some education. Is this what you 269 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: want to do? Read this book, Read that book, Look 270 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: at the pitfalls here, look at how this would change 271 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: the relationship. There's a great book I'd like to recommend 272 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: for clients which is Rewriting the Rules, and it actually 273 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: talks about how you redefine commitment, monogamy, all of those terms. 274 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: But just kind of ease into it and be inquisitive 275 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: more than anything at first. And would you say in 276 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: your experience that there is something that is kind of 277 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: like the point at which couples begin having these conversations 278 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 1: or is it a different entry point for different people, 279 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: different entry point for different people. From the couple who's 280 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: been together for thirty years and they're like, we want 281 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: to do something different to the couple who is brand 282 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: new but they don't know if they want to stay 283 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: in monogamous relationship and they want to start out with 284 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 1: it being open and what does that look like for them? 285 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: So it's just different places in your life, different relationship 286 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: places on how you want to do it. And it 287 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: sounds like this is a large part of what you 288 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: do with your clients when they're, you know, coming to 289 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: you trying to figure this out. What kinds of questions 290 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 1: do you feel like you should ask yourself and maybe 291 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: your partner if this is something that you're considering. Some 292 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: of it asks what is your intention? What is the 293 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: end goal here? What are you looking to do when 294 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: opening your relationship? And that's a really important thing because 295 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: it kind of drives which direction you want to go. 296 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 1: A lot of times people don't realize that going from 297 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: a monogamous paradigm and that monoonormative way of being and 298 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: shifting to polyamorous is you're shifting a whole lot of ideology. 299 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: You're shifting a whole lot of social constructs. You're just 300 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 1: shifting a whole lot of stuff. And ask yourself, are 301 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 1: you ready to take that journey in opening your relationship 302 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,959 Speaker 1: because it changes family dynamic, how you interact with your family. 303 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: It's just it's a big shift and it's against the norm. 304 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 1: And so ask yourself, is this something that I want 305 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: to do? I know, for me personally, it wasn't something 306 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: necessarily I asked myself a whole lot of questions about 307 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: I was thirty eight. I'm like, I'm living my life right. 308 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: So I was at a different place in my life 309 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: to where I knew what I was doing wasn't fulfilling 310 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: for me, wasn't getting me where I wanted to be 311 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: within my relationships. And then so I took my own 312 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: personal journey there. So I think one thing that I 313 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: often hear ruby and I would love to hear your 314 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: thoughts about so it feels like there are instances where 315 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: some couples begin to explore what this might look like 316 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: after there has been some infidelity, and so I love 317 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: to know, like I would imagine just like lots of 318 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: couples stays together after infidelity it's not that it can't work, 319 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 1: but it it does often feel sometimes like Okay, well 320 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: let's try this, And so I would love to hear 321 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: just like how you might work with a couple or 322 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: you know, things that you would suggest to someone who 323 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: may be considering this after there's been infidelity in the relationship. Yeah, 324 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: that's a real, big one. And the reason that I 325 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: say that's a real but I have like two three 326 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: clients I'm working with that right now. I tend to 327 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: get a lot of that for some reason, and they 328 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: want to open it, open the relationship by way of 329 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 1: wanting to be able to maintain a relationship with the 330 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: person that they were happening an affair with, which is 331 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: really difficult and it's very hard because you're basically wanting 332 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: to open your relationship and say, Okay, I love this person, 333 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: I also love my wife or I love my husband. 334 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: I don't want to end the relationship or my partner 335 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: because it happens with same sex partners also, and I 336 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: don't want to aid my relationship with them, and I 337 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: don't want to aid my relationship with this other person. 338 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: But then you're dealing with on the other partner side, 339 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: you're dealing with betrayal, you're dealing with hurt, de dealing 340 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: with this person rep sense that this is the harm 341 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: that happened within our relationships. So it takes a whole 342 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: lot of fortitude, a whole lot of hard decisions. And 343 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: can it happen absolutely, I've seen it happen, and I've 344 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: seen people go on and have happy relationships. Does it 345 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: hurt absolutely? Can it not work? Can it be like, 346 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: we don't want to use polyamory as a justification for 347 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 1: doing stuff that is a violation of the commitment within 348 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: the relationship. So that's a very good question. It's also 349 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: very complex because it involves matters of the heart that 350 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: are in betrayal. And so that's real difficult because the 351 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: whole basis of being in polyamorous relationships is consent and awareness. 352 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 1: And so if you don't have consent and you don't 353 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: have awareness is what's going on, that's going to be 354 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: real difficult to build that trust and get back to 355 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 1: mm hmmmmm. Yeah. And so for people who are say, 356 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: you know, you had this conversation with your partner and 357 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: you decided, okay, we want to maybe decide that we 358 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: have an ethical, ethically non monogamous relationship. What are some 359 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: of the rules are the boundaries that you do want 360 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: to set because now you're adding more people, so we 361 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 1: know how communication can sometimes be difficult, which is two 362 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: people and some now we're adding more people, So what 363 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,439 Speaker 1: are some of the rules and boundaries that people need 364 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: to be mindful of. Some of the pitfalls is that 365 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: there isn't that consistent check in with your partner about 366 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: what is going on and what is happening. The way 367 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: that being in polyamorous relationships how you are successful. It's 368 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: based up a lot upon awareness and shared meaning. And 369 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: when I say shared meaning is kind of like, do 370 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: we both have an understanding of what this agreement is? 371 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: Do we both have an understanding of what this expectation is? 372 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: Is it a realistic expectation? So one of the first 373 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: things that I have the client do in the very 374 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: beginning is to find polyamory for each person. Define what 375 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: commitment is, to find, what trust is, to find what 376 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: communication is, to start defining things. Because once you get 377 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: that foundation of shared meaning, then you're able to build 378 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: your agreements. Then you're able to build the agreements of 379 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: when do I let you know that I'm interested in someone, 380 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: Do I tell you from the jump that I'm interested? 381 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: Or is it do I tell you when I start flirting? 382 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: Those types of things, How often are we going to 383 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: have our meetings as a couple, What are going to 384 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: be our sacred moments together? What are we going to 385 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: have that's just ours, Those types of conversations where you 386 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: try to preserve what you have as a unit, but 387 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: still invite other people into your life. And so it's 388 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: not about losing what you have with your partner, it's 389 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: about enhancing the individual lives, which in turn enhanced to 390 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: the partnerships or the couple's lives. And are there other 391 00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 1: pitfalls that you would say you've seen happen for a client. Yes, 392 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: I've seen one of them is lack of awareness is 393 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: a big one. Lack of fluid communication. Also operating in 394 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: secrecy versus privacy. Sometimes you have your private things, your 395 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: your private moments, some things you want to keep to yourself. 396 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: There's a difference between secrecy, privacy, and transparency and understanding 397 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: how those operate within relationships. Because when we're in a 398 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: monogamous relationship and we go to shift out into a 399 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: polyamorous relationships, some of the ways that we view secrecy, 400 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: privacy and transparency are going to shift. Privacy is that 401 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: I have discernment of who I share my stuff with. 402 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: Secrecy is that I'm doing something that I'm not supposed 403 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: to be doing and I just don't want to tell you. 404 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: That's that shame piece. And transparency for some people means 405 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 1: that I get to know each and every detail of 406 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: your thoughts and what's going on and what's happening. And 407 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 1: so some of the pitfalls come into a misunderstanding of 408 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: how that awareness, what it looks like, and what consent 409 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: looks like operating in those spaces. Another one is to 410 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: have to have the idea that, Okay, we're going to 411 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 1: date as a couple or we're going to date individually, 412 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: and not having that conversation on what that looks like. 413 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: I have a client right now that I'm working with 414 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: and they've been together ten years, and they decided to 415 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: open their relationship, his idea of opening a relationship with 416 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 1: them getting a third and dating as a couple, her 417 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: idea of opening a relationship with her starting her own 418 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: individual relationships. And that happened, and they didn't have an 419 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: understanding of where they were going and what they were doing. 420 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: They ended up in therapy because there was some infidelity 421 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: that happened, and there's also great successes. Yeah. The other 422 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: thing that I'm thinking is what happens if you do 423 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: decide to open up your relationship and you try it, 424 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: and then let's say, some month or years later, you 425 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: decide this isn't actually what I want anymore. But you've 426 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: opened it now, right, So I would imagine that it 427 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: requires a conversation. But you might not be in the 428 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: same place now in terms of exactly before exactly that 429 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: happens at different phases of your life. You want different things, 430 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: and so recognizing though that your partner may have a 431 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: different perspective and a different point of view, and how 432 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: do you have that conversation? Do monogamous and polly um, 433 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: you know what I call mixed orientation relationships? Monopoly relationships 434 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,880 Speaker 1: work absolutely, but it requires a whole lot of conversation 435 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: and a whole lot of maturity and saying, Okay, I 436 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: want my partner to be happy and I want me 437 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,199 Speaker 1: to be happy, So what can I do for us 438 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: to contribute to both of our happiness without losing myself? 439 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: You know? And that's that grown folks. Stuff yeah, right, 440 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: that that requires a kind of deep communication that would 441 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 1: be required in any constellation of right. Right, it does 442 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: it does? You know? And polyamorous is a lot of fun. 443 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: Is it could be a lot of fun. And people 444 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: like to focus on the what like I like these 445 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: questions because it's kind of like, what are the pitfalls? 446 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: How can you be successful? What are some things to 447 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: look for? What are some questions to ask? What I 448 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: love about it is that there's an opportunity for you 449 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: to grow as an individual. The most beautiful thing that 450 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: I witness with clients is when they open their relationship 451 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: and they discover new things about themselves. Wow, I didn't 452 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: know that I was I had that creativity. I didn't 453 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: know that I wanted to to start exploring this with 454 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: this new person. I didn't know that I like Japanese food. 455 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: It was just you're exposed to two different things based 456 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: upon the people that you're with. So that's a great 457 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: positive piece of being in a polyamorous relationship or opening 458 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: your relations ship is that you get to have your 459 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 1: own self discovery, which is a whole lot of fun. 460 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think it's really interesting sometimes 461 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: too that there are lots of pieces of ourselves that 462 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: we cannot uncover individually. There's a lot of stuff that 463 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: only happens in relationship. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, so I can 464 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 1: see you know, how you are stretching and learning new 465 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: things about yourself in this way. So you've already mentioned 466 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: the importance of community and shared. You know that it 467 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: has been really difficult for people and even you individually 468 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: to kind of find community around being polyamorous or in 469 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: ethically non monogamous relationships. Where should people begin to look 470 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: to kind of find more resources that have conversations with 471 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: people who are part of the community. Joined meetup dot 472 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: com and if you want to meet people, start going 473 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: to some of those meetings that they have because you know, 474 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: here in play now I used to have a meet 475 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: up group, or people will come who are curious about 476 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: non monogamous relationships and you just can come and ask 477 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: questions of people who are experience. Search on Facebook, you know, 478 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: you can find various groups, various meet ups, You can 479 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: find people having lots of interesting conversations. You can even 480 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: like Google like for good books to read, and you know, 481 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: just so you get your own understanding of the language, 482 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: so you know what to search for But it's going 483 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: to be something that you intentionally look for because unfortunately, 484 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: you know, people are not out about me and polyarmis 485 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: because there is still some stigma that's attached to it 486 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: and people have a lot to risk and a lot 487 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: to lose, especially when around children and etcetera. So you're 488 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: gonna have to go out and search for these groups 489 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: and these people and where they are. For me, when 490 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: I first started doing this deal, I was looking into 491 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: groups that weren't people. There were not people who look 492 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: like me, and so for me, it was very important 493 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: that I find people who look like me who are 494 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: practicing polyamory. So I and out and I found that community. 495 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: I went out and I found the Black and Polly community. 496 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: And so there's an entire group on Facebook with like 497 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: sixteen thousand members who are black and polyamorous, and there's 498 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: other little small groups that are spin offs from that. 499 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: But the community is out there. You have to search 500 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: for it word of mouth, but you're not alone. It's 501 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: something that you're curious about. So you mentioned another term 502 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: rube that I hadn't heard before, in terms of a 503 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: couple of maybe being socially monogamous, where maybe they're outwardly 504 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: to family and friends monogamous, but then you know, in 505 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: private or having very different kinds of relationships. And so 506 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: I'm curious to hear if you do, they'll want to 507 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: share this with friends and family. How do you have 508 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: those conversations? Yeah, the thing is and having those conversations, 509 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: it's you can't really protect people from their discomfort, you 510 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: know what I mean, And so being honest and forthright, 511 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: you know what I tell clients all the time. I mean, 512 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: it's what I did with my family. Being authentic is 513 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: all you got, and and being who you are is 514 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: this is the greatest gift. And so sitting down doing it, 515 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: you know, having the usual, have good timing, you know, 516 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: being careful with your words, knowing their personality. But it's 517 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: up to you when, where, and how you want to 518 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: disclose to your family and recognizing not everyone is going 519 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: to support you and some of your life choices and 520 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: decisions that you make. And there's different types of ways 521 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: of being monogamous. I mentioned socially monogamous. There's also emotionally monogamous, 522 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: there's physically monogamous, and there's just different ways that some 523 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: people they don't necessarily have to be sexually monogamous, but 524 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: they want to be emotionally monogamous. And so some people, 525 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: you know, explaining that to family members may not be 526 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: something that's necessary sory for them because it's it's not 527 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: an emotional connection. But for some people it is because 528 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: they may want to bring someone who they're physically having 529 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: a relationship with to an event. It just depends, It 530 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: just depends. Yeah. Yeah, So you mentioned also just the 531 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: stigmas that lots of people still have related to non 532 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: monogamous or ethically non monogamous relationships. How do you go 533 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: about unpacking some of these stigmas that you might have. 534 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, all of us have grown up, 535 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: like we talked about in a society where this was 536 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: not something that lots of people were talking about. So 537 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: I would imagine lots of us have stigmas that we 538 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 1: need to unpack related it is, Oh yeah, we we 539 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: a lot of us, do you know? It's that internalized 540 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: bias that you have your own internalized phobias and isms 541 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: and and fears around it. And it's because there was 542 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: such a fear that was put into us that someone 543 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: is threatening our relationship at all the time. You know, 544 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: it's that it's that fear. And so a lot of 545 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: the unpacking that I do with clients is centered around fear. 546 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: What are you afraid of? What are you afraid of losing? 547 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: You know? Are your fearful of abandonment? Are you fearful 548 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: of being rejected? You kind of get to the source 549 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: of where that stigma is coming from. Is it rooted 550 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: in those particular fears? Also it's rooted in the appearance. 551 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: You want to have the appearance of the heterosexual couple 552 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: with two points two kids in the house and all 553 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: of that, and what is going to mix up that 554 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: American dream? And that can be a stigma because stigma 555 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,719 Speaker 1: is designed to keep you in place, keep you running 556 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 1: with the social norm of what is supposed to look like, 557 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: what is supposed to be, when there's no such thing 558 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: as a norm. Actually you know, yeah, I mean it 559 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: can again, look however we decide we wanted to look. 560 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: So something else you mentioned, Ruby, is that a lot 561 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: of our ideas, of course, about relationships come from media. 562 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: Do you feel like they're been any examples that have 563 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: done a really good job of portraying ethical nonmenogamy will 564 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 1: That's a good question, and I can't think of the 565 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: documentary right now and I will send it to you later. 566 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:19,800 Speaker 1: There's a documentary done with Evida Sawyers. She's a polyamorous coach, 567 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,320 Speaker 1: and that was a good representation of it. There's a 568 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: show called Wonderlust that was on Netflix, which is a 569 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: good representation. So there's been a couple of documentaries and 570 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: a couple of series done that actually nailed it really 571 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: well on you know, the basics of what opening a 572 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,439 Speaker 1: relationship looks like and how it doesn't have to look 573 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: like the male female female dynamic. You know, it's a 574 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 1: lot more than three people, you know, as an actual 575 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: family that's involved. And that's what I liked about those representations. 576 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: But when media has it represented, like in the show Insecure, 577 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: you know, they had it represented as something that was 578 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,359 Speaker 1: basically infidelity in that show, the show Insecure, it wasn't 579 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:15,919 Speaker 1: represented that well. There's another what was it loving hip hop? 580 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:22,320 Speaker 1: Look I'm older, so there's a cole I think it 581 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 1: was loving hip hop. Someone told me they hadn't misrepresented, 582 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: not represented very well. And so that's the big thing 583 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: for me is that these these popular culture is so 584 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: powerful for individuals and how they do relationships. They get 585 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: their ideas of how to be in relationships from from 586 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: popular culture. What it looks like is very important, and 587 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: that we're representing it as something that is a viable 588 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: relationship choice. Yeah, and I am interested to check out 589 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: the documentaries that you shared, because I do think when 590 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,399 Speaker 1: we see it in popular culture, you never really see 591 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 1: the conversationations around boundary setting, right, and like, these are 592 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: the things that we're keeping for our primary relationship, and 593 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,920 Speaker 1: this is what our other relationships are going to look like. 594 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,879 Speaker 1: Like you don't typically see those conversations, No, you don't. 595 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: You don't. You don't see conversations around boundaries and agreements period, 596 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: you know, other than you know they there's a conversation 597 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: around us a condom, that kind of stuff, you know, 598 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:27,280 Speaker 1: But there's not conversations around the emotional and mental aspects 599 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: of opening your relationship because it's a mental thing. No, 600 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: it's you're going against the grain of what it has 601 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 1: been indoctrinated within you on what relationships look like. For me, 602 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: I grew up with you know, one of the things 603 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,439 Speaker 1: my mama used to say was that, yeah, you better 604 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: keep your man satisfied at home. Are you're going to 605 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,720 Speaker 1: go find it somewhere in the streets, that kind of stuff, 606 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: you know, that kind of stuff, and for me to 607 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: go against you know, saying well, it's okay if he 608 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: goes and find something else in the streets, right, because 609 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: it would have been a disguy discussion. Yeah, you know. 610 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: The other thing, as as I'm thinking about it, Ruby, 611 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: I would imagine that a lot of what needs to 612 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: be unpacked and undone related to people who are considering 613 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 1: this is the sense of possessiveness that comes with, you know, 614 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 1: sometimes being with a partner, right, like just the idea 615 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: that they're talking to someone else or like what are 616 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 1: y'all saying and you know, is this still special? How 617 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: do you work with someone to kind of begin to 618 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: unpack some of that? Oh, now, that's the biggest conversation, 619 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: being possessive and territorial, which brings up jealousy and envy, 620 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: and so that is a big conversation and you really 621 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: have to get down to the root of, you know, 622 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,800 Speaker 1: and unpacking that. What do you fear you're going to 623 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: lose or miss out on? You know, that fomo fear 624 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 1: of missing out? You know what what what is it 625 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: that is this person being with this person? What is 626 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,879 Speaker 1: it saying about you, Do you feel like you're not enough? 627 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 1: You know? Do you feel like your partner is wanting 628 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,360 Speaker 1: to be with someone else because they're comparing them to you, 629 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 1: Like you're not doing this, so I'm gonna go get 630 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:13,840 Speaker 1: it over here. And it's those types of competition. It's possessiveness, 631 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,479 Speaker 1: is being territorial, which brings on the jealousy and the envy, 632 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 1: and so having conversations around those three things are really important. 633 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 1: And we have a term for that, it's called poly agony, 634 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: because it can be agonizing for people to share their mate, 635 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: to feel displaced within a relationship. So that emotional the 636 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 1: emotional shift, that primal panic that happens with the idea 637 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,320 Speaker 1: that your mate is going to see someone else. That 638 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: is I think the biggest conversation that we have in 639 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: the very beginning mm hmmm. Yeah. And I would imagine, 640 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 1: you know, like with a lot of things, like you 641 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,760 Speaker 1: can talk about stuff and then it's very different in practice. 642 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,879 Speaker 1: I would imagine there's a cover station kind of leading 643 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: up to opening the relationship and then continuing conversations as 644 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: a right exactly because theory and practice are two different things, right, right, 645 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,359 Speaker 1: So we're gonna take a quick break and then come 646 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 1: back with some community questions. We all know the importance 647 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: of physical fitness, but for most of us, there's no 648 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: class on inter fitness. Life coach and star of the 649 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: own Network drama Queen Sugar, Tina Lifford sure didn't have 650 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: a class, which is what led her to write The 651 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,400 Speaker 1: Little Book of Big Lies, a blend of personal antidotes 652 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:39,439 Speaker 1: and meaningful practical advice. This little book will change your life, 653 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,279 Speaker 1: and we're offering our community a discount. Head on over 654 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: to HarperCollins dot com and use the code Therapy for 655 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 1: Black Girls for t off and free shipping on the 656 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 1: Little Book of Big Lies. It's available in e book, audio, 657 00:39:54,200 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: and print now wherever books are sold. So, Ruby, we 658 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,920 Speaker 1: do have a couple of questions submitted from our community 659 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,360 Speaker 1: members that we would love for you to weigh in on. 660 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,439 Speaker 1: So the first question is how do you manage being 661 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:18,319 Speaker 1: polyamorous in a pandemic? Oh, that's an awesome question. I've 662 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 1: been having that question a lot. I've been with creativity. 663 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: There's for those who have established relationships already, that's been 664 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: a lot of fun, just you know, recognizing that a 665 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,600 Speaker 1: lot of the communal aspects and the physical connection that 666 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:41,239 Speaker 1: is involved within polyamorous relationships and keeping them nurtured. There's 667 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: more creativity that happens, and so there is a lot 668 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: of people who feel touched depride because if you're solo 669 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 1: polyamorous and you're living alone and you're not having anyone 670 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 1: with you, you know, and you're used to going to 671 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 1: your mates house or or seeing them, and then you 672 00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: don't have it. There's that level of isolation and being 673 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: creative and creating low risk connections for those and established 674 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 1: relationships is having to break down barriers and boundaries and 675 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,440 Speaker 1: then build new ones in different ways. And so in 676 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 1: itself it has brought some challenges. Some relationships haven't survived 677 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,800 Speaker 1: because you get an opportunity to figure out what is 678 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 1: our relationship based upon. But I think it has created 679 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: a new shift and how we do relationships overall as 680 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 1: a society, but especially in in polyamorous pollicueles, because you know, 681 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,320 Speaker 1: I have a client who they hadn't seen their partner 682 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,719 Speaker 1: or used to seeing their partner every weekend, but haven't 683 00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,920 Speaker 1: seen them in three months, you know, and the sadness 684 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,919 Speaker 1: and their grief that comes from not you know, being 685 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 1: able to see their partner and then leaning on another 686 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,799 Speaker 1: partner for help with that, and then they're feeling their 687 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 1: sadness and their own grief. So it's it's it's been interesting. 688 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: But those establish relationships. Not for those who are who 689 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,239 Speaker 1: are wanting to date, who are polyamorous and data in 690 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 1: a pandemic, that's been interesting also because I'm one of 691 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 1: those people. I have not met anyone in person at 692 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,759 Speaker 1: all because my mom is sick, so I don't risk 693 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 1: anything when it comes to her. But for individuals who 694 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 1: are establishing new ways of connecting, there's new creative ways 695 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,520 Speaker 1: of online dating, which I'm sure you'll have talked about 696 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: since in your podcast before. But there is a lot 697 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:40,560 Speaker 1: of community being built around you know, speed dating. I mean, 698 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:45,040 Speaker 1: there's entire events that happen in the poly community about 699 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 1: still building connection because we are a community that knows 700 00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:52,800 Speaker 1: how to do long distance relationship. Well, um, we already 701 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,760 Speaker 1: have that skill set, and so how do we expand 702 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,360 Speaker 1: on that skill set in the time of a pandemic 703 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,320 Speaker 1: and in the time of emergence. See, there's been a 704 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,720 Speaker 1: shift of priorities for some people being polyamorous. They have shifted, 705 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,719 Speaker 1: you know, and started to focus on, you know, just 706 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 1: being they're not any less polyamorous, but they're not. They 707 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,719 Speaker 1: have shifted and just focusing on their primary relationship. That's 708 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:22,480 Speaker 1: a very complex thing. Typically when I have the conversations, 709 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,640 Speaker 1: I've been doing podcasts with people having conversations about being 710 00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:30,839 Speaker 1: black polyamorous and in a time of uprisings. I work 711 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,279 Speaker 1: a lot with This is probably too much information, but 712 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 1: I work a lot with people who are involved in 713 00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:40,880 Speaker 1: in frontline uprisings, you know, b Y P, b L 714 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:45,760 Speaker 1: B LM, and within those communities, polyamory is is a natural. 715 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,920 Speaker 1: You'd be surprised, you know, especially the b YP move 716 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,880 Speaker 1: with are young people. I mean they have activists pods 717 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,080 Speaker 1: around being polyamorous and what does that look like, how 718 00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,040 Speaker 1: it has helped, you know, having those loving relations of 719 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 1: ships during this pandemic and in a time of protests 720 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,920 Speaker 1: and in a time of uprising. So that is a 721 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:12,600 Speaker 1: podcast in itself talking about ways within communities the pandemic 722 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:17,360 Speaker 1: has strengthened and revealed a whole lot that is interesting. 723 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,400 Speaker 1: I appreciate you sharing that, and I would imagine, you know, 724 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,840 Speaker 1: I'm actually not surprised because I think young people just 725 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,399 Speaker 1: you know, they're younger, so they are not as caught 726 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,279 Speaker 1: up in all of the ideas about what relationships have 727 00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,879 Speaker 1: to look like. Anyway, I think they feel much free 728 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,239 Speaker 1: er to kind of you know, describe and be in 729 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,400 Speaker 1: relationships in the way that they choose. Right. It's a 730 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:42,359 Speaker 1: beautiful thing to watch how leaning on multiple loves within 731 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: these times have actually been a great asset for many people. 732 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:53,040 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, yeah, I would imagine. So the second question 733 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 1: we have, and I think you kind of touched on this, 734 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 1: we want to be sure the question is answered. Can 735 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,840 Speaker 1: someone identify as polyamorous and be a monogamous relationship but 736 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,480 Speaker 1: have polyamorous relationships outside of it, Yeah, you can. I 737 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,879 Speaker 1: call that the mixed orientation relationship. Is what I'm him 738 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,239 Speaker 1: hearing is that, yeah, they're polyamorous, they're dating someone who 739 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 1: is monogamous, but they still want to have other polyamorous relationships. Yes, 740 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,480 Speaker 1: that is possible, right, but of course it would still 741 00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:24,840 Speaker 1: require a conversation with the monogamous partner about what's happening. Yes, exactly. 742 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,400 Speaker 1: Everybody has to agree that this is going to happen, 743 00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:33,680 Speaker 1: and was challenging with someone who's monogamous dating someone who's polyamorous, 744 00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:39,520 Speaker 1: which is what I call limited consent because ultimately most 745 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,839 Speaker 1: people don't want their polyamorous partner to date other people, 746 00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: But do they really have full consent in that, you 747 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,359 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. There is a limitation to their consenting, 748 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,360 Speaker 1: but it's like a limited consent and that their partner 749 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:56,719 Speaker 1: is going to do what they're gonna do, and if 750 00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,080 Speaker 1: they want to be with that partner, they're going to 751 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,800 Speaker 1: have a sceptance of who that partner is. Okay, okay, 752 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:07,239 Speaker 1: got it. Yeah, so but still even though I don't 753 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,120 Speaker 1: want people to get that confused into like a manipulation 754 00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,160 Speaker 1: kind of thing, because I don't think that's what it is, 755 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:19,120 Speaker 1: and not like a ultimatum, right, Like it's an understanding 756 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,520 Speaker 1: like yeah, I don't really love this, but I love 757 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,560 Speaker 1: you kind of like I love you, I want you 758 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:27,960 Speaker 1: to be happy, and so I'm yes, limited consent to this, Yes, yes, 759 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,960 Speaker 1: And that is it. There's no coercion, right, It's not 760 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,840 Speaker 1: about power dynamic. It's about I love you and I 761 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:35,920 Speaker 1: want to support you, and I do have a choice 762 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:37,640 Speaker 1: if I want to be in a relationship with you. 763 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,400 Speaker 1: M that's the thing, Yes, got it? Got it? A differentiation? Okay, 764 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,920 Speaker 1: So really you have already given us some great resources. 765 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,080 Speaker 1: So you mentioned designer relationships and rewriting the rules. Are 766 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,799 Speaker 1: there other favorite books that you have that you find 767 00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:56,040 Speaker 1: yourself recommending pretty frequently? More Than Two it's another good 768 00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:01,080 Speaker 1: book I like to recommend. And Open Name Up is 769 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,959 Speaker 1: another good book. More than Two is by Eve Eve 770 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:09,640 Speaker 1: Record and Franklin Voe. Opening Up is by Tristan Terremino. 771 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 1: Love's Not color Blind is the only book, well not 772 00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:16,400 Speaker 1: the only one. There's one other person that's written by 773 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,440 Speaker 1: a black man. There's very few black authors on polyamory, 774 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,480 Speaker 1: and so that's Love's Not color Blind and it's written 775 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,400 Speaker 1: by Kevin Patterson. So those are some books that I like. 776 00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:30,440 Speaker 1: And any other documentaries or podcasts that you suggested, Yeah, 777 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,120 Speaker 1: I would like to send you the names of those documentaries. 778 00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:39,640 Speaker 1: But the podcast include Monogamish, which is with Jen j 779 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:44,759 Speaker 1: h e N and there's another one called Normalizing non Monogamy. 780 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,840 Speaker 1: There's multi Emory, and one more which is Polli Weekly, 781 00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:55,359 Speaker 1: Polly Weekly, Okay podcast Perfect And we will include all 782 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,040 Speaker 1: of those in the show notes. So if somebody wants 783 00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:58,759 Speaker 1: to learn more about you and your work, would you 784 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,280 Speaker 1: share your website as well? As any social media handles 785 00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,440 Speaker 1: you like. Yes, my website is in Armorata dot me. 786 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,560 Speaker 1: That's I N A m O r A t A 787 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,600 Speaker 1: dot me and you can find me at black sex 788 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:18,759 Speaker 1: Geek on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Also, I run a 789 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,520 Speaker 1: conference called Polly Dallas Millennium. It's our fifth year and 790 00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:26,120 Speaker 1: it's a polyamorous conference that centers folks of color who 791 00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,640 Speaker 1: are non binary, trans and gender queer. And our next 792 00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,320 Speaker 1: one is November six through the eight and it's online. 793 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,400 Speaker 1: It's open to love the virtual experience, and you can 794 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:40,680 Speaker 1: go to Polly Dallas Millennium dot com for that one. Perfect. Well, 795 00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:42,759 Speaker 1: thank you so much for sharing with us today, Ruby, 796 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,440 Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. That was 797 00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:51,279 Speaker 1: a lot of fun. I'm so glad Ruby was able 798 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,360 Speaker 1: to join us for today's conversation. To learn more about 799 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,799 Speaker 1: her practice or the resources that she shared, be sure 800 00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,200 Speaker 1: to visit the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls 801 00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:03,520 Speaker 1: dot com slash Session one two, and be sure to 802 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:06,719 Speaker 1: text two sisters that might enjoy this episode right now. 803 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:09,440 Speaker 1: If there's a topic you'd like to have covered on 804 00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,320 Speaker 1: the podcast, please admit it to us at Therapy for 805 00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,839 Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash mailbox, and if you're looking 806 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,640 Speaker 1: for a therapist in your area, don't forget to check 807 00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,600 Speaker 1: out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot 808 00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:25,000 Speaker 1: com slash directory. If you want to continue digging into 809 00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,000 Speaker 1: this topic and connect with some other sisters in your area, 810 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,800 Speaker 1: come on over and join us in the Yellow Couse Collective, 811 00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:32,960 Speaker 1: where we take a deeper dive into the topics from 812 00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,520 Speaker 1: the podcast and just about everything else. You can join 813 00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:39,160 Speaker 1: us at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash y 814 00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,600 Speaker 1: c C. Thank y'all so much for joining me again 815 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,600 Speaker 1: this week. A look forward to continuing this conversation with 816 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,000 Speaker 1: you all real soon. Take get care