WEBVTT - Elon Musk and the SEC, and Uber's Super App 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:06.160 From the heart of where innovation, money and power collive 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:11.399 in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:27.240 Emily jay I'm Emily Jang in San Francisco, and this 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.680 is Bloomberg Technology coming up in the next hour, from 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:34.160 largest shareholder to board member. How Elon Musk's sudden moves 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.160 at Twitter could raise alarm at the SEC We will 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:41.840 have all the details. Plus Uber adds flights, trains, even 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.320 hotels to a pilot program and it's super apt. Push 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:47.880 will tell you how CEO Dara kus Rashah he wants 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:52.880 to expand beyond rides and food delivery, and bitcoin is 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:55.600 now underway in Miami. We will bring you the latest 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:57.440 from the cryptoconference and catch up with some of the 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:01.160 attendees later this hour. The big are in tech, of course, 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:03.960 Elon Musk joining the board of Twitter twenty four hours 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:06.520 after his nine point two percent stake in the company 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:09.800 was disclosed. What does this mean from the platform's future? 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:11.720 I want to dig deeper into this with Daphney Keller, 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:15.240 director of the Program on Platform Regulation at the Stanford 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:18.759 Cyber Policy Center. Daphney, great to have you back with us. 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:20.840 So it's been a War one seventy two hours. In 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:23.480 just the last twenty four hours, Musk has now filed 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.880 to become an active investor in Twitter, not just a 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:31.039 passive investor, meaning that he will advocate for changes. What 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:33.240 influence do you think Musk will have on the platform? 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:37.560 How will Twitter change as a result of his board membership. Well, 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:40.320 I don't think anyone knows, and you know, there there 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:42.560 are a lot of predictions people could make. But one 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:46.199 thing that's particularly interesting is the possibility that he will 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:52.640 join Jack Dorsey and current CEO agerwal in promoting decentralized 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:56.920 models in you know, promoting ways to allow third parties 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:00.600 to come in and offer different content moderations systems on 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:04.280 top of Twitter or different content ranking systems, which would 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:08.240 be a really important ship that had happened. So Twitter's 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.680 Blue Sky project, which is this push for an open, 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:16.240 decentralized standard for social media that is funded by Twitter. 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.480 You know, is this something that you think Musk could 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:25.040 or would take on? And you know what specifically would 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:29.160 you be looking to change? Well, so the upside of 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.080 the project is that it would let Twitter users pick 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:34.520 the speech rules they want to live under. You know, 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:37.720 they could sign up for a Disney flavor, or a 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:41.960 church affiliated or Black Lives Matter affiliated flavor of the ranking, 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:46.120 or of the rules on harassment or violence or nudity. 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:48.960 So all of these things would allow Twitter to step 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:52.440 back from being the one gatekeeper that decides the speech 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.600 rules and bring in lots of different options for users. 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.520 So you can see Musk, who has talked about, you know, 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:02.240 open sourcing the algorithms and and is broadly interested in 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:07.480 decentralization liking that um. On the other hand, you can 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.799 see him liking consolidated control and preferring a world where 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:14.680 Twitter does set the rules. So I think you know, 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:17.919 it's it's a wait and see situation for sure. Could 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:23.040 this have repercussions for other social platforms like Facebook? Sure? 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:26.200 In a way, you can see Project Blue Sky, which 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:30.080 is about decentralizing rules, bringing in more decision makers and 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:35.480 more options for users, as like a counterpart of Facebook's 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:40.760 oversight Board. In both cases, it's platforms saying we're uneasy 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:45.640 being the deciders, especially on issues that divide the public 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:47.760 so much that somebody is going to be angry no 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:49.840 matter what we do, and so we would like to 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:53.920 hand that role to someone else. Facebook's answer was keep 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:58.280 it extremely centralized, funded with Facebook money, and build the 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:02.720 oversight board to decide cases. And Twitter's answer answer with 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:07.280 blues Styde potentially is to say, let's decentralize this, Let's 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:09.760 put lots of different people in charge and sort of 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.000 devolve control to the users that they can choose what 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.440 they want and move the costs, incidentally, of all this 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:20.920 content moderation out onto other competitors, so it's not sitting 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:24.720 with Twitter where it's very expensive and very difficult as 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:27.680 part of their business. Right now, now, the biggest, perhaps 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:31.080 most existential question is what could this mean for free 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:34.719 speech on Twitter and in general. Take a listen to 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.719 a professor Jennifer Grigel from Syracuse University when I asked 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:42.560 her how this could change how Twitter handles free speech. 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:47.240 This really isn't about free speech. If anything, Twitter has 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:50.160 just become a little bit more about you on speech. 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:54.080 You just ball a large portion of this company and 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.839 gets the kind of steer what happens there now. If anything, 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.400 he's figured out that this is a oracle platform. Maybe 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:04.080 he took some notes from Mark Zuckerberg and others that 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.560 you need to have some influence over a platform. Daphne 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:11.320 do you think this is more about Elon's speech and 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:15.640 and and and how could this influence future moderation efforts 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:19.840 at Twitter? Well, it would be more about Elon speech 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:22.160 if we stay in the world of Twitter being a 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:26.080 single centralized point of control over the rules that are 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.280 imposed on users and their speech. So if we don't 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:32.360 go in this decentralized direction that we've been talking about 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:34.359 and that Jack Dorsey has been talking about for a 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.920 few years, um, and instead there's just one decider in 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:43.760 the middle, then obviously Elon Musk's roll there is really important. Um. 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:47.640 But I don't think we should foresee a world where 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:52.320 Twitter becomes, you know, a free speech mosh pit, free 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:56.000 for all, because they're not going to make money that way. 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.760 You know, if if you get onto Twitter and you 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:02.680 can't help seeing a bunch of racist comments or bullying 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:05.680 or spam or you know, all of these things that 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:09.160 users don't like and that advertisers don't like, um, that 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.320 is not a way to retain users or or to 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.000 be profitable. So I don't think we should imagine a 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:18.320 world where if anything goes on Twitter, it's you know, 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.720 at most a world where Twitter still imposes its own 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:25.400 rules but they're more influenced by Elon Musk. But possibly 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.920 this really interesting other direction where Twitter steps back and 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:31.279 gives users a choice. You know, you can choose to 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:33.400 live under Twitter's rules, or you can choose to live 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.640 under some other rules, which brings me to the question 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.800 of Donald Trump and could just open the door to 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.960 president former President Trump coming back to Twitter after being 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.960 permanently banned. I've asked Ned Siegel, the CFO, this question 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.119 several times over the last year. Is there a path 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:53.640 for Trump to come back? Take a listen to what 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:57.840 he's had to say. One somebody is removed from Twitter, 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:00.760 there isn't a path for them to come back. Uh. 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:03.400 And that's true for public officials, is true for anybody 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:08.479 else who uses the service as well. Now, Trump, in 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:12.880 a lawsuit against Twitter back in January, said Twitter has 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:17.640 increasingly engaged in impermissible censorship. The immediacy of its threat 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:20.640 to users and potentially every citizen's right to free speech 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:25.960 cannot be overstated. Twitter censorship results in a chilling effect 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:30.480 on our nation's pressing political, medical, social, and cultural discussions. 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:34.200 Does former President Trump have a point? And do you 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:37.360 see Elon Musk coming back? You know, could they reopen 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:39.960 this question of whether he should be on the platform. Well, 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:43.400 former President Trump does not have a legal point as 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:48.280 a legal argument. This lawsuit is nonsense because private platforms 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.480 don't owe you First Amendment protection the way that the 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:54.080 government does. And courts have said this over and over 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:57.640 again in cases very much like this Trump lawsuits. Um. 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:00.320 But as a matter of public policy and things that 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.160 we care about, Uh, is it a problem that there 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.800 are a small handful of giant companies that really have 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:09.119 a chokehold over what speech and information we can share 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.040 and see? Yes, you know, of course people are worried 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:15.400 about that. And so you know, I can imagine a 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:21.040 future where Twitter's version of its content moderation continues to 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:26.800 have former President Trump band for life. But there are alternatives. Um, 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:30.040 you know, a lens on Twitter offered by some competitor 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:32.760 that does allow him to come back, and then users 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.800 can choose which of those universes they want to live in. Interesting. 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:39.520 So you think that Twitter could find a middle ground 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:42.800 here with when it comes to President Trump. Well, so 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:48.080 imagine you know, their users can choose from fifty different 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:51.440 flavors of competing content moderation services built on top of 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:56.440 Twitter um. One version of that is an entirely federated system, 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:59.880 meaning there is no centralized control, kind of like math 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.840 stood on now, and so you know, in that version, 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:06.520 anyone can build a system where President Trump does come back, 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:08.400 and it's just a question of whether users want to 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:11.880 sign up for that. I think what's more plausible as 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:14.480 a future development with Project Blue Sky is a sort 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.640 of hub and spoke model where Twitter does take some 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:20.320 things down at the center, like things that are illegal 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:23.920 or honoring d m c A notices, um, and then 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:28.000 what left goes out to the you know, the competing 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:32.199 offerers of content moderation services, and they can decide among 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:34.920 among those things that are left. So more like how 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:39.040 Reddit does some centralized content moderation, but then most of 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.120 the decisions are made by different subreddits, you know, applying 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:46.640 their own different policies. You know. So Twitter could choose 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.079 to say, you know, we're going to take down all 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.360 the illegal stuff at the center so no one can 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:55.040 see it. And also some things violate our own policies 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.400 so badly that we're also going to keep that down 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:01.840 permanently for all of that, you know, competing flavors of 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:05.040 content moderation but I just think that would be a 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:10.480 step one flavors. We'll see if Twitter moves in that direction. 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.640 Daphne Keller, director of the Program and Platform Regulation at 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:17.880 the Stanford Hyper Policy Center. Thank you well. Elon Musk's 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.760 swift ascent from Twitter shareholder board member could catch the 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:23.559 eye of the SEC in this at a time when 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.560 the Commission is demanding more transparency from big investors and 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:30.160 ratcheting up fines for breaking rules. Here to talk about 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:33.040 that and more, Bloomberg's Matt Robinson, who covers the SEC 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:35.560 for US. So, Matt, is there any indication that the 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:38.280 SEC is looking at this yet? Not yet, But the 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:41.280 SEC is looking at Elon Musk and his brother for 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:45.160 insider trading or potential insider trading issues about a share 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:48.040 sale last fall. So uh, you know, as we know, 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.360 the SEC and Elon Musco go back, you know, quite 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:54.720 a few years now from teen with his infamous funding 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:59.920 secured tweet and the subsequent penalty and settlement which limits 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:05.160 ability to talk about his company on the platform. Now, 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:08.080 Elon Musk initially filed to be a passive investor. We 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:10.360 know now in the last twenty four hours he's changed 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:12.880 that to become an active investor. We also know he 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:16.800 started buying shares starting back in January. The CEO Twitter, 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:18.960 Paragua Agarwal, said that they had actually been talking for 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:23.600 weeks now, perhaps it could actually be months. What's significant 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:25.960 about that to you when it comes to the interest 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:28.560 of the SEC. So those are so the two different 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:32.679 filings that, um, you know big investors have to disclose. Um, 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:34.320 you know, we have a thirteen G, which is someone 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.160 who's taking a passive steak, someone who doesn't have any 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:41.400 interest in seeking any sort of business plans or changes, 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:44.400 and then the thirteen D, which is what he filed yesterday. 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:48.080 So there is room for from foreign investor to go 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.800 from a thirteen G, which is the you know, um, 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:54.520 the passive side, to an activist side. So, um, there 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:58.040 are so by updating that, that's that's fine. The issue 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:01.920 that Elon Musky may find himself into is that he, um, 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:03.920 you know, as soon as you hit five percent, you 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:06.680 have to disclose within ten calendar days, and it looks 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.440 like he may have missed that window. So that is 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.960 sort of a technical violation that he could see see 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.720 some issues, but the SEC is generally they don't really 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:19.719 bring those cases unless it's kind of repeated failures. How 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:22.320 fast can we see the SEC move on with move on, 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:25.680 move on this? Well, you know they it's obviously just happened. 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:27.560 I mean, if it has, if they haven't you know, 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:31.120 started an investigation in a couple of weeks, you know, 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:34.120 is its smooth sailing? It's it's certainly could be quick. 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:37.679 I mean, if you're back in eighteen you know, if 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:39.920 I remember correctly, it was like early August that he 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:42.360 brought the funny Security and at the end of September 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:45.920 the SEC suit elon Musk So, I mean, if there's um, 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.760 you know, the facts and and the certainly the motivation 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:50.599 there from the SEC if they feel like this is 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.640 an important case to bring that you know this is 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.120 going to show too too, mus get to other investors 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.200 that you know you have to take these sources of 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:02.480 disclosure rules. Um SERI slee and promptly all right, Bloomberg 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:04.800 Smott Robinson, who covers the SEC for us, thank you, 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:09.600 coming up, darks Rasha. He is pushing Uber closer to 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:13.400 becoming the go to travel app, adding long distance travel 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:17.319 like planes, trains, hotels. Will it work? Could Uber be 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:21.720 the next super app? We will explore next. This is Bloomberg. 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.679 Let's get to Uber's continued push to become a super app. 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.520 The ridehilling company planning to launch a pilot project in 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:42.760 the UK that will integrate offers from travel partners. That 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.200 means customers will soon be able to book long distance 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:50.560 travel on planes, trains, buses, even hotels. Bloombergs Jackie Delavlos 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:53.880 has more so, how exactly will this work, Jackie? From 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:57.480 a customer's perspective, it's going to be a one stop 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:00.959 shop for transportation. Now. While we were able to get 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:03.840 a cab to the airport, now when you're at the airport, 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.960 you know you can hail or book the next train 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:09.560 ride or your bus from whatever city you're going to. 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:14.440 It's really going to become a much more comprehensive travel hub. 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:18.680 Now for Uber, this is the next step in their 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:23.880 super app strategy. This is not something that is completely new. 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:27.480 They telegraphed this even, you know, back in ten dar 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:31.280 casra Shaw he had this big idea that it could 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:34.160 become a super app. And when you think about it, 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.640 it's not a concept that is very well known to 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:41.680 Westerners in particular, but in Asia it's huge. Uber has 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:43.640 a stake in Grab, which is one of the biggest 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.720 players and examples of a super app where you can 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.240 access payments, you can hail a ride, you can get 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:51.680 food delivery, all in one. So this is a major 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:55.480 step really jump starting those efforts for Uber. Now. You 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:57.520 and I just spent time with Dara Cosa Shaw. He 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.440 at shop Talk a couple of weeks ago, and he 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:05.240 talked about this vision to deliver the future of retail, 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.280 not just food. Take a listen to what he had 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:13.280 to say when I asked specifically about these super app ambitions. 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:15.960 So what we're doing essentially is building the largest local 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:20.800 commerce and transportation platform on Earth. UM the users, riders, 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:24.200 consumers get the ease of essentially being able to go 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:29.359 and go anywhere, get anything same I d same payments, etcetera. 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.440 We know the locations that you like to go or 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:36.360 restaurants that you love, Jackie. It all sounds good, But 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:39.040 how will this or could this help Uber's bottom line 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:42.000 or could it hurt Well, when you think about this 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:46.600 particular long distance travel move, the way it's going to 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:50.200 be done is by using online travel aggregators. So think 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:52.400 of an Expedia or a Booking They're the ones that 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.680 are actually booking the ticket, but Uber is taking a 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:59.200 cut out of that sale. It's a really high margin 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.520 tie of strategy where you know, they're not the ones 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.280 having the having to get that plane or the train, 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:09.000 the actual hardware. What they're doing is just facilitating this 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:12.400 this sale for customers that are already very engaged on 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:14.840 their app. When you think about the different ways that 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:18.680 Uber can tap people's lives, you know, you can book 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.480 a restaurant, take a ride to the restaurant, pay for 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:26.240 the meal. UH. The opportunity for growth is very, very significant. 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:30.840 So what does this mean for competition? You know, especially 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:33.840 given this is launching in the UK. Obviously there are 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:39.320 big travel competitors like Expedia Bookings. You know, what does 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:42.320 this mean for the rest of the industry For some 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:46.600 of its direct competitors. Let's take you know, rideshare Lift 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:50.720 for example. If this kind of a long distance rollout 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:54.000 were to reach North America, it would be a huge 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:57.360 blow for Lift, who doesn't have the kind of UH 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:01.320 cushion that Uber has with its food delivery business. And 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:03.680 also when you think about some of the marketplaces that 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:07.080 are also vye to keep their customers on their apps, longer. 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.280 Whether it's door Dash or insta cart, this is going 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:13.359 to be a significant challenge, especially if upers making it 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:16.480 easy to do all the things in the app, whether 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:20.720 it's you know, a ride or a meal, convenience items retail. 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.119 Uh so, I think it's rapid delivery. It's going to 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:28.480 really um you know up the ante for marketplaces and 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.639 rideshare rivals h to to find ways to keep customers 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:34.880 on the app. Alright, we'll be watching how this plays. 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:46.119 Applom works. Jackie Doagulos, thank you. She is one of 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:49.199 the most popular stars on Twitch with more than a 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:53.040 million followers. Meat iron Mouse. She not only plays some 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:55.240 of the most popular video games on the streaming site, 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:58.960 but also sings karaoke and cracks jokes to her many followers. 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:00.919 For more on the ride is of iron Mouse and 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:04.720 other v tubers, I'm joined by Bloomberg Cecilia Donastasio, who 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:08.160 covers the gaming industry for US. So who is Iron 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:11.240 Mouse and why has she gotten so popular? Iron Mouse 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:15.720 is an anonymous woman Puerto Rican woman who became very 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.720 popular on Twitch and on YouTube for live streaming herself 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:25.280 as a virtual anime character through motion capture technology. Iron 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.399 mouse kind of moves in front of a camera and 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:32.199 that gets fed through animation software and that is what 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:34.159 you see on screen. You see a v tuber or 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:38.359 virtual YouTuber. So what don't we know about the woman 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:41.280 behind this character. We don't know anything about the woman 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:45.600 behind this character, but um, she keeps herself anonymous just 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:49.720 to protect for her own safety. So talk to us 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.760 about the rise of v tubers and who else is 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:57.240 falling into the popular category. There are seventeen thousand v 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:01.439 tubers right now. Iron Mouse broke records, recently becoming the 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:04.640 most subscribed to woman on Twitch and the most popular 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:08.280 vituber on Twitch last month. But vtubing has become a 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:10.800 sensation over the last couple of years, with an over 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.000 four hundred and sixty seven percent increase between two thousand 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:17.080 and twenty and two thousand twenty one. And fans love it. 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:20.119 They love the feeling of interacting live with an anime character, 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.080 um or a person kind of presenting themselves as an 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:26.400 anime character. You know. Obviously we've talked a lot about 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:29.520 the rise of YouTubers and the kind of money they 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:31.440 can make. I mean, is there a lot of money 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:33.600 to be made? Here are their careers to be made 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.359 here for a select few. There is money to be 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:38.600 made and there are careers to be had. There are 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:42.400 UM some larger brands who have invested in v tubers, 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:47.080 particularly in Japanese vitubers. Companies like Sega have been involved 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:51.560 UM in sort of helping sponsor companies. The first v tuber, 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:55.879 Kazuna ai UM has done enormous deals with even like 0:19:55.920 --> 0:20:00.919 the Japanese Tourism agency UM. But generally king it is 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:04.040 a competitive field right now, and only the top people 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:06.000 with the best technology. You're going to succeed on the 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:11.120 level of Iron Mouse House, all right, Cecilia Donastasio. Fascinating. 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.320 We'll have to try to learn more details about Iron Mouse. 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:16.720 Thank you for sharing that. Coming up, they just raised 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.639 nearly two billion dollars. Looking at that big on tech. 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:24.399 My exclusive conversation with lead Edge Capitals Mitchell green Up. Next, 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:38.680 Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Emily Check in San Francisco. 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:42.359 What goes up must come down, right My next guest 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:44.760 thinks tech valuations have gotten ahead of themselves and it 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.080 has launched a new fund to put new money to 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:50.760 work in this rapidly changing macro environment. Joining me now 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:54.480 for more. Founding partner of lead Edge Capital, Mitchell Green. Mitch, 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:58.280 great to have you back with us. So how do 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:01.960 you think valuations are high right now? Are they too high? 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:05.560 And what's next? Thanks? I only thanks to much for 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:11.640 happing me on. Are we talking public or private company evaluations? Both? Both? Um? 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:14.920 So we look at me. Anybody watching the markets has 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:19.200 obviously seen that, especially in the software internet world, UM, 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.520 public evaluations have come down, you know, fairly dramatically. Um, 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:25.959 You wouldn't know what in the induscry has given just 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:28.280 how much of the induscry has weighted towards like you know, 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.440 the large camp companies like Apple and you know, um, 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:34.119 you know Microsoft and Facebook and Google and stuff like that. 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:37.520 But but underneath those, you know, companies like Snowflake or 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:41.040 Toast or you know Acta or you know, these companies 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:44.720 have come down hugely dramatically. And you know, public companies 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:48.840 tend to you know, lead private company evaluations. And I 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:51.119 think you will start to see and we're starting to 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:55.199 see private company evaluations to climb. Um. You've had a 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:58.239 lot of crossover hedge funds that had entered that had 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:00.320 been into the space over the last five years, and 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:02.360 you know we're looking at some large deals right now. 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:05.200 That is you know, six months ago, it would have 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:07.520 been kind of swarmed easily, you know, fifty sixty million 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:10.680 dollar revenue companies that would have been swarmed by a 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:14.080 crossoverpublic investors. And I think in this deal there's like 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:16.600 one looking at it, So it should be a good din. 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:20.680 Depressed valuations and less competition should be a good time 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:24.600 to you know, uh deploy money. Right, So how do 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:28.000 you plan to put this new one nine five billion 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:31.720 dollars to work? Yeah? So UM s any way, we 0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:34.000 have been UM for many, many years. You know, we 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:38.919 deployed our last fund, UM nine million dollar fund in 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:41.760 like fifteen months, and so you know we want this 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:43.600 fund to take you know two and a half to 0:22:43.720 --> 0:22:45.639 three years, two and a half years, three or to 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:49.719 three years to invest. And so UM continuing to do 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:53.399 what we do. You know, we're primarily uh Western European 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:58.280 uh you know, UM North American investors. We've done some 0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:01.040 stuff in Asia over the year as companies like Aunt 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:03.200 or Bite Dance, Sarah Ali Babbo Group, we were early 0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:07.040 investors in, but primarily US and Western European and Israeli 0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:11.959 based software, internet companies and fintech companies. So you know, 0:23:12.040 --> 0:23:15.159 when you when you look at valuations, are are you 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:19.440 changing your own bar in terms of what is reasonable? 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:21.320 And do you think more broadly, we're just gonna see 0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:25.440 a lot of air get let out of the balloon. Yeah, 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:29.880 So since we our biggest mistakes, to be clear, over 0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:37.640 the last five ten years was UM not predicting multiple expansion. UM. 0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:40.639 Had we we would have made our LPs billions of 0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:43.040 dollars more than we've made. We've done really well, but 0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:46.280 we would have made a lot more UM. And you know, 0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:49.639 look the way we the way we mob way we 0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:52.600