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Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power collive

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Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with

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Speaker 1: Emily jay I'm Emily Jang in San Francisco, and this

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Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Technology coming up in the next hour, from

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Speaker 1: largest shareholder to board member. How Elon Musk's sudden moves

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Speaker 1: at Twitter could raise alarm at the SEC We will

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Speaker 1: have all the details. Plus Uber adds flights, trains, even

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Speaker 1: hotels to a pilot program and it's super apt. Push

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Speaker 1: will tell you how CEO Dara kus Rashah he wants

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Speaker 1: to expand beyond rides and food delivery, and bitcoin is

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Speaker 1: now underway in Miami. We will bring you the latest

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Speaker 1: from the cryptoconference and catch up with some of the

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Speaker 1: attendees later this hour. The big are in tech, of course,

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk joining the board of Twitter twenty four hours

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Speaker 1: after his nine point two percent stake in the company

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Speaker 1: was disclosed. What does this mean from the platform's future?

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Speaker 1: I want to dig deeper into this with Daphney Keller,

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Speaker 1: director of the Program on Platform Regulation at the Stanford

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Speaker 1: Cyber Policy Center. Daphney, great to have you back with us.

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Speaker 1: So it's been a War one seventy two hours. In

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Speaker 1: just the last twenty four hours, Musk has now filed

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Speaker 1: to become an active investor in Twitter, not just a

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Speaker 1: passive investor, meaning that he will advocate for changes. What

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Speaker 1: influence do you think Musk will have on the platform?

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Speaker 1: How will Twitter change as a result of his board membership. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't think anyone knows, and you know, there there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of predictions people could make. But one

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Speaker 1: thing that's particularly interesting is the possibility that he will

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Speaker 1: join Jack Dorsey and current CEO agerwal in promoting decentralized

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Speaker 1: models in you know, promoting ways to allow third parties

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Speaker 1: to come in and offer different content moderations systems on

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Speaker 1: top of Twitter or different content ranking systems, which would

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Speaker 1: be a really important ship that had happened. So Twitter's

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Speaker 1: Blue Sky project, which is this push for an open,

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Speaker 1: decentralized standard for social media that is funded by Twitter.

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Speaker 1: You know, is this something that you think Musk could

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Speaker 1: or would take on? And you know what specifically would

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Speaker 1: you be looking to change? Well, so the upside of

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Speaker 1: the project is that it would let Twitter users pick

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Speaker 1: the speech rules they want to live under. You know,

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Speaker 1: they could sign up for a Disney flavor, or a

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Speaker 1: church affiliated or Black Lives Matter affiliated flavor of the ranking,

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Speaker 1: or of the rules on harassment or violence or nudity.

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Speaker 1: So all of these things would allow Twitter to step

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Speaker 1: back from being the one gatekeeper that decides the speech

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Speaker 1: rules and bring in lots of different options for users.

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Speaker 1: So you can see Musk, who has talked about, you know,

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Speaker 1: open sourcing the algorithms and and is broadly interested in

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Speaker 1: decentralization liking that um. On the other hand, you can

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Speaker 1: see him liking consolidated control and preferring a world where

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Speaker 1: Twitter does set the rules. So I think you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a wait and see situation for sure. Could

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Speaker 1: this have repercussions for other social platforms like Facebook? Sure?

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Speaker 1: In a way, you can see Project Blue Sky, which

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Speaker 1: is about decentralizing rules, bringing in more decision makers and

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Speaker 1: more options for users, as like a counterpart of Facebook's

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Speaker 1: oversight Board. In both cases, it's platforms saying we're uneasy

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Speaker 1: being the deciders, especially on issues that divide the public

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Speaker 1: so much that somebody is going to be angry no

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Speaker 1: matter what we do, and so we would like to

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Speaker 1: hand that role to someone else. Facebook's answer was keep

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Speaker 1: it extremely centralized, funded with Facebook money, and build the

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Speaker 1: oversight board to decide cases. And Twitter's answer answer with

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Speaker 1: blues Styde potentially is to say, let's decentralize this, Let's

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Speaker 1: put lots of different people in charge and sort of

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Speaker 1: devolve control to the users that they can choose what

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Speaker 1: they want and move the costs, incidentally, of all this

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Speaker 1: content moderation out onto other competitors, so it's not sitting

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Speaker 1: with Twitter where it's very expensive and very difficult as

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Speaker 1: part of their business. Right now, now, the biggest, perhaps

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Speaker 1: most existential question is what could this mean for free

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Speaker 1: speech on Twitter and in general. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: a professor Jennifer Grigel from Syracuse University when I asked

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Speaker 1: her how this could change how Twitter handles free speech.

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Speaker 1: This really isn't about free speech. If anything, Twitter has

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Speaker 1: just become a little bit more about you on speech.

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Speaker 1: You just ball a large portion of this company and

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Speaker 1: gets the kind of steer what happens there now. If anything,

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Speaker 1: he's figured out that this is a oracle platform. Maybe

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Speaker 1: he took some notes from Mark Zuckerberg and others that

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Speaker 1: you need to have some influence over a platform. Daphne

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Speaker 1: do you think this is more about Elon's speech and

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Speaker 1: and and and how could this influence future moderation efforts

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Speaker 1: at Twitter? Well, it would be more about Elon speech

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Speaker 1: if we stay in the world of Twitter being a

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Speaker 1: single centralized point of control over the rules that are

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Speaker 1: imposed on users and their speech. So if we don't

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Speaker 1: go in this decentralized direction that we've been talking about

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Speaker 1: and that Jack Dorsey has been talking about for a

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Speaker 1: few years, um, and instead there's just one decider in

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Speaker 1: the middle, then obviously Elon Musk's roll there is really important. Um.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think we should foresee a world where

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Speaker 1: Twitter becomes, you know, a free speech mosh pit, free

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Speaker 1: for all, because they're not going to make money that way.

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Speaker 1: You know, if if you get onto Twitter and you

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Speaker 1: can't help seeing a bunch of racist comments or bullying

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Speaker 1: or spam or you know, all of these things that

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Speaker 1: users don't like and that advertisers don't like, um, that

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Speaker 1: is not a way to retain users or or to

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Speaker 1: be profitable. So I don't think we should imagine a

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Speaker 1: world where if anything goes on Twitter, it's you know,

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Speaker 1: at most a world where Twitter still imposes its own

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Speaker 1: rules but they're more influenced by Elon Musk. But possibly

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Speaker 1: this really interesting other direction where Twitter steps back and

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Speaker 1: gives users a choice. You know, you can choose to

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Speaker 1: live under Twitter's rules, or you can choose to live

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Speaker 1: under some other rules, which brings me to the question

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Speaker 1: of Donald Trump and could just open the door to

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Speaker 1: president former President Trump coming back to Twitter after being

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Speaker 1: permanently banned. I've asked Ned Siegel, the CFO, this question

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Speaker 1: several times over the last year. Is there a path

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Speaker 1: for Trump to come back? Take a listen to what

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Speaker 1: he's had to say. One somebody is removed from Twitter,

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Speaker 1: there isn't a path for them to come back. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And that's true for public officials, is true for anybody

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Speaker 1: else who uses the service as well. Now, Trump, in

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Speaker 1: a lawsuit against Twitter back in January, said Twitter has

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Speaker 1: increasingly engaged in impermissible censorship. The immediacy of its threat

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Speaker 1: to users and potentially every citizen's right to free speech

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Speaker 1: cannot be overstated. Twitter censorship results in a chilling effect

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Speaker 1: on our nation's pressing political, medical, social, and cultural discussions.

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Speaker 1: Does former President Trump have a point? And do you

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Speaker 1: see Elon Musk coming back? You know, could they reopen

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Speaker 1: this question of whether he should be on the platform. Well,

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Speaker 1: former President Trump does not have a legal point as

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Speaker 1: a legal argument. This lawsuit is nonsense because private platforms

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Speaker 1: don't owe you First Amendment protection the way that the

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Speaker 1: government does. And courts have said this over and over

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Speaker 1: again in cases very much like this Trump lawsuits. Um.

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Speaker 1: But as a matter of public policy and things that

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Speaker 1: we care about, Uh, is it a problem that there

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Speaker 1: are a small handful of giant companies that really have

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Speaker 1: a chokehold over what speech and information we can share

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Speaker 1: and see? Yes, you know, of course people are worried

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Speaker 1: about that. And so you know, I can imagine a

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Speaker 1: future where Twitter's version of its content moderation continues to

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Speaker 1: have former President Trump band for life. But there are alternatives. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, a lens on Twitter offered by some competitor

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Speaker 1: that does allow him to come back, and then users

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Speaker 1: can choose which of those universes they want to live in. Interesting.

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Speaker 1: So you think that Twitter could find a middle ground

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Speaker 1: here with when it comes to President Trump. Well, so

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Speaker 1: imagine you know, their users can choose from fifty different

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Speaker 1: flavors of competing content moderation services built on top of

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Speaker 1: Twitter um. One version of that is an entirely federated system,

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Speaker 1: meaning there is no centralized control, kind of like math

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Speaker 1: stood on now, and so you know, in that version,

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Speaker 1: anyone can build a system where President Trump does come back,

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Speaker 1: and it's just a question of whether users want to

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Speaker 1: sign up for that. I think what's more plausible as

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Speaker 1: a future development with Project Blue Sky is a sort

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Speaker 1: of hub and spoke model where Twitter does take some

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Speaker 1: things down at the center, like things that are illegal

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Speaker 1: or honoring d m c A notices, um, and then

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Speaker 1: what left goes out to the you know, the competing

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Speaker 1: offerers of content moderation services, and they can decide among

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Speaker 1: among those things that are left. So more like how

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Speaker 1: Reddit does some centralized content moderation, but then most of

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Speaker 1: the decisions are made by different subreddits, you know, applying

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Speaker 1: their own different policies. You know. So Twitter could choose

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Speaker 1: to say, you know, we're going to take down all

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Speaker 1: the illegal stuff at the center so no one can

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Speaker 1: see it. And also some things violate our own policies

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Speaker 1: so badly that we're also going to keep that down

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Speaker 1: permanently for all of that, you know, competing flavors of

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Speaker 1: content moderation but I just think that would be a

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Speaker 1: step one flavors. We'll see if Twitter moves in that direction.

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Speaker 1: Daphne Keller, director of the Program and Platform Regulation at

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Speaker 1: the Stanford Hyper Policy Center. Thank you well. Elon Musk's

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Speaker 1: swift ascent from Twitter shareholder board member could catch the

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Speaker 1: eye of the SEC in this at a time when

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Speaker 1: the Commission is demanding more transparency from big investors and

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Speaker 1: ratcheting up fines for breaking rules. Here to talk about

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Speaker 1: that and more, Bloomberg's Matt Robinson, who covers the SEC

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Speaker 1: for US. So, Matt, is there any indication that the

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Speaker 1: SEC is looking at this yet? Not yet, But the

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Speaker 1: SEC is looking at Elon Musk and his brother for

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Speaker 1: insider trading or potential insider trading issues about a share

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Speaker 1: sale last fall. So uh, you know, as we know,

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Speaker 1: the SEC and Elon Musco go back, you know, quite

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Speaker 1: a few years now from teen with his infamous funding

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Speaker 1: secured tweet and the subsequent penalty and settlement which limits

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Speaker 1: ability to talk about his company on the platform. Now,

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk initially filed to be a passive investor. We

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Speaker 1: know now in the last twenty four hours he's changed

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Speaker 1: that to become an active investor. We also know he

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Speaker 1: started buying shares starting back in January. The CEO Twitter,

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Speaker 1: Paragua Agarwal, said that they had actually been talking for

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Speaker 1: weeks now, perhaps it could actually be months. What's significant

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Speaker 1: about that to you when it comes to the interest

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Speaker 1: of the SEC. So those are so the two different

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Speaker 1: filings that, um, you know big investors have to disclose. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, we have a thirteen G, which is someone

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Speaker 1: who's taking a passive steak, someone who doesn't have any

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Speaker 1: interest in seeking any sort of business plans or changes,

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Speaker 1: and then the thirteen D, which is what he filed yesterday.

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Speaker 1: So there is room for from foreign investor to go

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Speaker 1: from a thirteen G, which is the you know, um,

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Speaker 1: the passive side, to an activist side. So, um, there

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Speaker 1: are so by updating that, that's that's fine. The issue

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Speaker 1: that Elon Musky may find himself into is that he, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, as soon as you hit five percent, you

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Speaker 1: have to disclose within ten calendar days, and it looks

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Speaker 1: like he may have missed that window. So that is

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Speaker 1: sort of a technical violation that he could see see

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Speaker 1: some issues, but the SEC is generally they don't really

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Speaker 1: bring those cases unless it's kind of repeated failures. How

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Speaker 1: fast can we see the SEC move on with move on,

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Speaker 1: move on this? Well, you know they it's obviously just happened.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if it has, if they haven't you know,

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Speaker 1: started an investigation in a couple of weeks, you know,

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Speaker 1: is its smooth sailing? It's it's certainly could be quick.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you're back in eighteen you know, if

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Speaker 1: I remember correctly, it was like early August that he

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Speaker 1: brought the funny Security and at the end of September

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Speaker 1: the SEC suit elon Musk So, I mean, if there's um,

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Speaker 1: you know, the facts and and the certainly the motivation

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Speaker 1: there from the SEC if they feel like this is

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Speaker 1: an important case to bring that you know this is

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Speaker 1: going to show too too, mus get to other investors

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Speaker 1: that you know you have to take these sources of

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Speaker 1: disclosure rules. Um SERI slee and promptly all right, Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Smott Robinson, who covers the SEC for us, thank you,

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Speaker 1: coming up, darks Rasha. He is pushing Uber closer to

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Speaker 1: becoming the go to travel app, adding long distance travel

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Speaker 1: like planes, trains, hotels. Will it work? Could Uber be

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Speaker 1: the next super app? We will explore next. This is Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: Let's get to Uber's continued push to become a super app.

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Speaker 1: The ridehilling company planning to launch a pilot project in

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Speaker 1: the UK that will integrate offers from travel partners. That

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Speaker 1: means customers will soon be able to book long distance

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Speaker 1: travel on planes, trains, buses, even hotels. Bloombergs Jackie Delavlos

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Speaker 1: has more so, how exactly will this work, Jackie? From

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Speaker 1: a customer's perspective, it's going to be a one stop

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Speaker 1: shop for transportation. Now. While we were able to get

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Speaker 1: a cab to the airport, now when you're at the airport,

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Speaker 1: you know you can hail or book the next train

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Speaker 1: ride or your bus from whatever city you're going to.

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Speaker 1: It's really going to become a much more comprehensive travel hub.

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Speaker 1: Now for Uber, this is the next step in their

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Speaker 1: super app strategy. This is not something that is completely new.

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Speaker 1: They telegraphed this even, you know, back in ten dar

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Speaker 1: casra Shaw he had this big idea that it could

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Speaker 1: become a super app. And when you think about it,

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Speaker 1: it's not a concept that is very well known to

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Speaker 1: Westerners in particular, but in Asia it's huge. Uber has

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Speaker 1: a stake in Grab, which is one of the biggest

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Speaker 1: players and examples of a super app where you can

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Speaker 1: access payments, you can hail a ride, you can get

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Speaker 1: food delivery, all in one. So this is a major

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Speaker 1: step really jump starting those efforts for Uber. Now. You

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Speaker 1: and I just spent time with Dara Cosa Shaw. He

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Speaker 1: at shop Talk a couple of weeks ago, and he

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Speaker 1: talked about this vision to deliver the future of retail,

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Speaker 1: not just food. Take a listen to what he had

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Speaker 1: to say when I asked specifically about these super app ambitions.

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Speaker 1: So what we're doing essentially is building the largest local

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Speaker 1: commerce and transportation platform on Earth. UM the users, riders,

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Speaker 1: consumers get the ease of essentially being able to go

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Speaker 1: and go anywhere, get anything same I d same payments, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: We know the locations that you like to go or

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Speaker 1: restaurants that you love, Jackie. It all sounds good, But

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Speaker 1: how will this or could this help Uber's bottom line

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Speaker 1: or could it hurt Well, when you think about this

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Speaker 1: particular long distance travel move, the way it's going to

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Speaker 1: be done is by using online travel aggregators. So think

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Speaker 1: of an Expedia or a Booking They're the ones that

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Speaker 1: are actually booking the ticket, but Uber is taking a

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Speaker 1: cut out of that sale. It's a really high margin

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Speaker 1: tie of strategy where you know, they're not the ones

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Speaker 1: having the having to get that plane or the train,

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Speaker 1: the actual hardware. What they're doing is just facilitating this

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Speaker 1: this sale for customers that are already very engaged on

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Speaker 1: their app. When you think about the different ways that

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Speaker 1: Uber can tap people's lives, you know, you can book

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Speaker 1: a restaurant, take a ride to the restaurant, pay for

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Speaker 1: the meal. UH. The opportunity for growth is very, very significant.

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Speaker 1: So what does this mean for competition? You know, especially

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Speaker 1: given this is launching in the UK. Obviously there are

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Speaker 1: big travel competitors like Expedia Bookings. You know, what does

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Speaker 1: this mean for the rest of the industry For some

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Speaker 1: of its direct competitors. Let's take you know, rideshare Lift

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Speaker 1: for example. If this kind of a long distance rollout

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Speaker 1: were to reach North America, it would be a huge

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Speaker 1: blow for Lift, who doesn't have the kind of UH

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Speaker 1: cushion that Uber has with its food delivery business. And

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Speaker 1: also when you think about some of the marketplaces that

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Speaker 1: are also vye to keep their customers on their apps, longer.

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Speaker 1: Whether it's door Dash or insta cart, this is going

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Speaker 1: to be a significant challenge, especially if upers making it

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Speaker 1: easy to do all the things in the app, whether

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Speaker 1: it's you know, a ride or a meal, convenience items retail.

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Speaker 1: Uh so, I think it's rapid delivery. It's going to

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Speaker 1: really um you know up the ante for marketplaces and

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Speaker 1: rideshare rivals h to to find ways to keep customers

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Speaker 1: on the app. Alright, we'll be watching how this plays.

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Speaker 1: Applom works. Jackie Doagulos, thank you. She is one of

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Speaker 1: the most popular stars on Twitch with more than a

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Speaker 1: million followers. Meat iron Mouse. She not only plays some

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Speaker 1: of the most popular video games on the streaming site,

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Speaker 1: but also sings karaoke and cracks jokes to her many followers.

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Speaker 1: For more on the ride is of iron Mouse and

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Speaker 1: other v tubers, I'm joined by Bloomberg Cecilia Donastasio, who

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Speaker 1: covers the gaming industry for US. So who is Iron

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Speaker 1: Mouse and why has she gotten so popular? Iron Mouse

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Speaker 1: is an anonymous woman Puerto Rican woman who became very

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Speaker 1: popular on Twitch and on YouTube for live streaming herself

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Speaker 1: as a virtual anime character through motion capture technology. Iron

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Speaker 1: mouse kind of moves in front of a camera and

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Speaker 1: that gets fed through animation software and that is what

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Speaker 1: you see on screen. You see a v tuber or

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Speaker 1: virtual YouTuber. So what don't we know about the woman

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Speaker 1: behind this character. We don't know anything about the woman

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Speaker 1: behind this character, but um, she keeps herself anonymous just

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Speaker 1: to protect for her own safety. So talk to us

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Speaker 1: about the rise of v tubers and who else is

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Speaker 1: falling into the popular category. There are seventeen thousand v

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Speaker 1: tubers right now. Iron Mouse broke records, recently becoming the

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Speaker 1: most subscribed to woman on Twitch and the most popular

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Speaker 1: vituber on Twitch last month. But vtubing has become a

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Speaker 1: sensation over the last couple of years, with an over

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Speaker 1: four hundred and sixty seven percent increase between two thousand

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Speaker 1: and twenty and two thousand twenty one. And fans love it.

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Speaker 1: They love the feeling of interacting live with an anime character,

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Speaker 1: um or a person kind of presenting themselves as an

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Speaker 1: anime character. You know. Obviously we've talked a lot about

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Speaker 1: the rise of YouTubers and the kind of money they

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Speaker 1: can make. I mean, is there a lot of money

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Speaker 1: to be made? Here are their careers to be made

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Speaker 1: here for a select few. There is money to be

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Speaker 1: made and there are careers to be had. There are

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Speaker 1: UM some larger brands who have invested in v tubers,

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Speaker 1: particularly in Japanese vitubers. Companies like Sega have been involved

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Speaker 1: UM in sort of helping sponsor companies. The first v tuber,

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Speaker 1: Kazuna ai UM has done enormous deals with even like

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Speaker 1: the Japanese Tourism agency UM. But generally king it is

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Speaker 1: a competitive field right now, and only the top people

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Speaker 1: with the best technology. You're going to succeed on the

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Speaker 1: level of Iron Mouse House, all right, Cecilia Donastasio. Fascinating.

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Speaker 1: We'll have to try to learn more details about Iron Mouse.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that. Coming up, they just raised

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Speaker 1: nearly two billion dollars. Looking at that big on tech.

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Speaker 1: My exclusive conversation with lead Edge Capitals Mitchell green Up. Next,

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Emily Check in San Francisco.

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Speaker 1: What goes up must come down, right My next guest

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Speaker 1: thinks tech valuations have gotten ahead of themselves and it

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Speaker 1: has launched a new fund to put new money to

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Speaker 1: work in this rapidly changing macro environment. Joining me now

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Speaker 1: for more. Founding partner of lead Edge Capital, Mitchell Green. Mitch,

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Speaker 1: great to have you back with us. So how do

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Speaker 1: you think valuations are high right now? Are they too high?

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Speaker 1: And what's next? Thanks? I only thanks to much for

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Speaker 1: happing me on. Are we talking public or private company evaluations? Both? Both? Um?

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Speaker 1: So we look at me. Anybody watching the markets has

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Speaker 1: obviously seen that, especially in the software internet world, UM,

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Speaker 1: public evaluations have come down, you know, fairly dramatically. Um,

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't know what in the induscry has given just

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Speaker 1: how much of the induscry has weighted towards like you know,

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Speaker 1: the large camp companies like Apple and you know, um,

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Speaker 1: you know Microsoft and Facebook and Google and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: But but underneath those, you know, companies like Snowflake or

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Speaker 1: Toast or you know Acta or you know, these companies

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Speaker 1: have come down hugely dramatically. And you know, public companies

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Speaker 1: tend to you know, lead private company evaluations. And I

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Speaker 1: think you will start to see and we're starting to

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Speaker 1: see private company evaluations to climb. Um. You've had a

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Speaker 1: lot of crossover hedge funds that had entered that had

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Speaker 1: been into the space over the last five years, and

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Speaker 1: you know we're looking at some large deals right now.

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Speaker 1: That is you know, six months ago, it would have

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Speaker 1: been kind of swarmed easily, you know, fifty sixty million

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Speaker 1: dollar revenue companies that would have been swarmed by a

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Speaker 1: crossoverpublic investors. And I think in this deal there's like

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Speaker 1: one looking at it, So it should be a good din.

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Speaker 1: Depressed valuations and less competition should be a good time

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Speaker 1: to you know, uh deploy money. Right, So how do

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Speaker 1: you plan to put this new one nine five billion

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Speaker 1: dollars to work? Yeah? So UM s any way, we

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Speaker 1: have been UM for many, many years. You know, we

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Speaker 1: deployed our last fund, UM nine million dollar fund in

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Speaker 1: like fifteen months, and so you know we want this

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Speaker 1: fund to take you know two and a half to

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Speaker 1: three years, two and a half years, three or to

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Speaker 1: three years to invest. And so UM continuing to do

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Speaker 1: what we do. You know, we're primarily uh Western European

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Speaker 1: uh you know, UM North American investors. We've done some

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Speaker 1: stuff in Asia over the year as companies like Aunt

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Speaker 1: or Bite Dance, Sarah Ali Babbo Group, we were early

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Speaker 1: investors in, but primarily US and Western European and Israeli

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Speaker 1: based software, internet companies and fintech companies. So you know,

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Speaker 1: when you when you look at valuations, are are you

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Speaker 1: changing your own bar in terms of what is reasonable?

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Speaker 1: And do you think more broadly, we're just gonna see

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Speaker 1: a lot of air get let out of the balloon. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So since we our biggest mistakes, to be clear, over

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Speaker 1: the last five ten years was UM not predicting multiple expansion. UM.

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Speaker 1: Had we we would have made our LPs billions of

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Speaker 1: dollars more than we've made. We've done really well, but

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Speaker 1: we would have made a lot more UM. And you know,

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Speaker 1: look the way we the way we mob way we

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Speaker 1: make investments is we build five year models and this

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Speaker 1: is this is new, different today that it was five

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Speaker 1: years ago, and we slapped a reasonable you know, earnings

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Speaker 1: and revenue multiple on them and and discount back. Um.

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Speaker 1: There were a bunch of deals getting down over the

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Speaker 1: last twelve you know, starting kind of like there are

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Speaker 1: a bunch of deals I got done in one that

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Speaker 1: we could not figure out how people were underwriting these

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Speaker 1: these these valuations. Was when we stuck in our exit multiples,

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Speaker 1: which we thought were reasonable based on historical averages, Like

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Speaker 1: we just couldn't get there at all, um, And it's

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Speaker 1: just we just you know, we kind of use a

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Speaker 1: historical average multiple to excess stuff and we'll continue to

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Speaker 1: do that. And so I think what's interesting is it

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Speaker 1: in fund five we just raised Fund six. Um, we've

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Speaker 1: only done one or two deals in the Bay Area,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of our deals were just some like

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Speaker 1: random other places around the world. Um, you know, in Arbor, Michigan.

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Speaker 1: It was one of our biggest investments in Fund five.

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Speaker 1: We just thought you got better valuations there. It's not

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Speaker 1: because we don't like stuff on the coast. I think

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Speaker 1: in Fund six you will see us do more stuff

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Speaker 1: on the coasts, just because I think valuations are getting

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Speaker 1: to be more reasonable now. Online payments company Fast just

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Speaker 1: close shop yesterday saying they simply ran out of money.

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Speaker 1: Are we gonna see this happen more often? I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you will. So, yes, I'm sure you will. We have

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Speaker 1: this one criteria that is super important to us called

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Speaker 1: capital efficiency. And it's like our version of return on equity.

430
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: It's like the very dumb persons and our views return

431
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: on equity. Um, it's not like based in scientific fact.

432
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 1: But what it is is is it are your revenues today,

433
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: are your recurring revenues today or your annual recurring revenue

434
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: are are greater or equal to the amount of money

435
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: you've burned since day one of the business. Now, maybe

436
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: you've raised a bunch of money, but if it's sitting

437
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: in the bank, don't blame the entrepreneur. So, in other words,

438
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: the world, the world is littered with like thirty million

439
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,919
Speaker 1: dollar revenue companies growing fast that have burned like a

440
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars to get there. But what we want

441
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: to find the companies that are like thirty million of

442
00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: revenue that have burned like ten million dollars to get there,

443
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: because those are companies that you know are just not

444
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: going to like fall off a cliff if times get tough. Um.

445
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: They also just if you can grow fast and not

446
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: burn much money, you've got a good business. So it's

447
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 1: just like a simple like a check that and every

448
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: deal that we invest in, we we rate it. Is

449
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: it a capital efficient or not. Now, not all the

450
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 1: companies we've invested in our but the vast majority are

451
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: just What are your thoughts? What are your thoughts on

452
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 1: the crypto market? Where do you see hype and where

453
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: do you see opportunity. Well, I think it's a giant bubble. Um.

454
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: But we to be completely fair, we have not. Um,

455
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: we have not. We've looked at some of this stuff

456
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: in grypto more on, like the pis and shovels businesses,

457
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: like a business called chain analysis. We looked at early

458
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 1: we're not investors benchmark as an early investor. So where

459
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,959
Speaker 1: do you see the giant bubble? I'll know the right

460
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: price for bitcoin is sixty seventy thousand, twenty tho or five.

461
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: I just of this when I have a lot of

462
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: random friends who know nothing about investing in telling me

463
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: it's easy to make money in crypto, Like that smells

464
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: bubble to me. I also Um, one of my buddies

465
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: who has better really early investor in crypto and made

466
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: a lot of money on it. And somebody I guess

467
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: I should like I should have listened to UM say

468
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: he's convinced that like every fraud ster in the world

469
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: is now in the crypto world, like like this stuff

470
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: is real and by if you believe that like crypto

471
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: crypto is the next like Internet, then you might see

472
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: a draw out of or but the stuff is real,

473
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: Like I I just think a lot of this stuff

474
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: is overhyped and like is not justified at all in

475
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 1: um in you know, in fundamental fundamental investing. But I

476
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: do think it's real. I do think it's here to say,

477
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: one really interesting thing about crypto is it's like to like,

478
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: it's really volatile. So I was reading recently what I

479
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: saw that like Tesla was enabling you at one point

480
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 1: to be able to pay for Tesla's in bitcoin. I

481
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: thought that was like super cool. You could take a doubt,

482
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: you could take a currency and use it for an

483
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: exchange of goods or services. The problem is is, like

484
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: and the reason they got rid of it, and why

485
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 1: I think you haven't seen Amazon and other big weakdail

486
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: or start to accept it is these currencies are just

487
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: too volatile. Like I think there's been like something like

488
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: ten days where bitcoin is moved like in a day,

489
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: Like the biggest US dollar move ever like a U

490
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 1: S dour Euro move ever has been like one and

491
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: a half percent, and it's happened like five times. So

492
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: these things are just too volatile right now. But I

493
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 1: do think they're real. Yeah, all right, interesting little monologue there.

494
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: Richell Green, founding partner at lead Edge capital some strong opinions.

495
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: We'll see how you put your money to work. Thank you. Meantime,

496
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: billionaire crypto investor Michael Novegrat says that once the FED

497
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: takes a pause, Bitcoin could take off again, or in

498
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: his words, bitcoin goes to the moon. Novograts leads Galaxy

499
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: Digital Holdings at the Bitcoin conference in Miami. Novograts reiterator

500
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: to call that bit and will eventually hit a price

501
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: of one million dollars. It was trading today at a

502
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: little over forty four thousand. He really truly understands the

503
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: value of cryptocurrency, whether it be uh, you know, bitcoin

504
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: or doge coin. He has and he knows the value

505
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: of open source network. So what I think is going

506
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: to be interesting is is he going to bring these

507
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: elements of the crypto world, these anti censorship not elements,

508
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: the open source elements and allow for a way for

509
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: new people to come in and maybe import their own algorithm.

510
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: H Time now for our crypto report. That was the

511
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: Blockchain Associations Kristin Smith saying it's a good thing for

512
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: Twitter that Elon Musk is now on board this day three,

513
00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: how of this developing story and I want to dig

514
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: a to it all with our crypto Contributornelli Bostick. Jan

515
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: Ali would love to hear how the crypto community is

516
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: digesting Elon Musk joining the board of Twitter, given he's

517
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: such He's been such a loud figure in the crypto community.

518
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: There's a huge crypto community on Twitter, and the future

519
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: of Twitter could be more decentralized. Yeah, it was interesting

520
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: to hear christ and Smith talk about it from the

521
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: decentralized social network standpoint, because you could also emily think

522
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: about it from a commerce standpoint. Remember, Twitter has already

523
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: started to integrate pieces of the Lightning Network here to

524
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: be able to make some payments possible via the platform

525
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: through the Lightning Network, which is obviously a very popular

526
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: project when it comes to bitcoin and payment transfers. But

527
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: the idea of decentralizing social media, there are a lot

528
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: of projects out there that people try to use when

529
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: it comes to media and decentralization, but they're still in

530
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: early days. Now. The question is can Twitter play a

531
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: bigger role in the space? Alright, Janel I say with us,

532
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: I want to bring in our next guest who is

533
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: joining us live from the Bitcoino conference in Miami, Pascal

534
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: go taste, CEO and chairman of the crypto security startup Ledger.

535
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: Before we dig in, Pascal, I'd love for you to

536
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: give us a flavor of bitcoino this year. Of course

537
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: it was big last year. Is it even bigger this year?

538
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: And what are people talking about? Yeah, this year is

539
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: very intense. Last year sadly I couldn't come because European

540
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: and so I couldn't I wasn't allowed to travel to

541
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: the US. But what I know from what people tell me,

542
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: it's like this year is even more intense of last year.

543
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: I think, you know, we're post pandemic, and so you know,

544
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: people are very happy to meet, like a meeting with

545
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: people that I've only met online so far, and right now,

546
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's a very happy moment and you can

547
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: see that it's it's it's really going very strong with

548
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: a lot of support from you know, all communities that

549
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: are going towards bitcoins. So it's a great moment for bitcoin.

550
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: Ledger is known for its crypto hardware wallet and you're

551
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: out with a new one. How is this new better improved? Well,

552
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: it's just that you know, crypto currencies are evolving, and

553
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: so with the evolution of the protocols and the evolution

554
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: of like you know, the application that's seen on top

555
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: of protocols. You just need new hardware to enhance the experience.

556
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: And you know the Ledger nos plus is it's just

557
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: the result of that, Like you need norse, you need

558
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: more space, you know, you need more usability, and so

559
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: this is what's happening. So it's a product that was

560
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: long overdue. It's out now in the market, and there

561
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,479
Speaker 1: will be many more products coming for Ledger in the future.

562
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: You know, there have been a lot more instances of

563
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: scams and hacks and the n f T and in

564
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: the DeFi space. How is Ledger attracking attacking? What's happening here?

565
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: And can you keep up with the technology that hackers

566
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: are using to to get into new spaces? Yes, of course,

567
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: I mean you know hikers are always hiking in exactly

568
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: the same way. You know, the problem is education in

569
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: the space, and you know people are understanding that they

570
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: need hardware security. Just think you're their assets. You know,

571
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: this is the fundamental truth of cryptocurrencies n f T.

572
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: I mean, anything that has a private key needs hardware security,

573
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: and so people need to learn and usually you know

574
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: they sometimes they learn the hardware and we're sorry for that.

575
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: But when it comes to n f T, you know,

576
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: NFT is treated as a first class citizen on all

577
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: Ledger products, and right now, depending on the n f

578
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: T collection, you've got between twenty five and four of

579
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: all n f T s that are already secured by Ledgers.

580
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: So I think we're doing our job and you know

581
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: the communities are responding well and using our product to

582
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: secure themselves. What do you think about competition in the

583
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: space also, you know there's news of Jack Dorsey and

584
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: the block working on hardware wallets. Are you nervous about

585
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: that and how does it change the competition when it

586
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: comes to the wallet space. Well, first, I think competition

587
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: is always welcome. You know, it means that there is

588
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: a space and it means that there is something there.

589
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: So you know, Ledger is is a very strong company

590
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: and there are a few hardware manufactus what it manufacturers

591
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: in the world. But you know the fact that Jack

592
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: Dorsey and blog and taking a taking this is good.

593
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: We we we know them, we talk to them, and

594
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: you know, I feel that what they're doing is actually

595
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: you know, something that is bitcoin mainly and within the

596
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: realm of what Block and Square doing. You know, I

597
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 1: think that Ledger is a much more holistic approach. Like

598
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 1: you know, we are hardware manufacturer. We care for every community.

599
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: We're not deedpoint only you know, of course, we're vary

600
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: from a bitcoin, but we are multi chain, and I

601
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: think the future is to hide away the complexity for users,

602
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 1: like they shouldn't worry so much about the chain, but

603
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: they should worry about you know, manufacturers like us worry

604
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,399
Speaker 1: about the experience in the future. So we are very

605
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: focused on the journey of the user and making sure

606
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 1: that we support every community in crypto, and I think

607
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: that's where we're very different from everyone else. Well, speaking

608
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: of communities in crypto, there's a big one on Twitter.

609
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: And since we mentioned Jack Dorsey, I'm curious when you

610
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: think about Elon Musk joining the board of Twitter, given

611
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: his thoughts on decentralization and his own sort of role

612
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: in the crypto community, how does that strike you? You

613
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: know where what it strikes me the most is I think,

614
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: you know, I followed all of this and I think

615
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: Elon Musk is a beautiful troll and I think it's amazing,

616
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: and so I think he's taking a stance at freedom.

617
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: I think, you know, freedom is a concept here that

618
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: you know that Elon is standing behind, and uh, you know,

619
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: freedom of speech, and I think, of course is big.

620
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: The reason why it's big on discerent t realization is

621
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: because decentralization brings freedom to the people, and I think

622
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 1: freedom is really motivates in here. And actually freedom is

623
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 1: what ledgury is all about. Like we want to empower

624
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: people with tools so they can you know, we claim

625
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 1: their self sovereignty, like on you know, what they want

626
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: to own, whether it's a bitcoin, whether it's an n

627
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: f T or everything else that's going to go on

628
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 1: blockchain in the future. So I'm very aligned with you

629
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: much move and you know he roots for freedom and

630
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: so are we. So go on. You don't normally hear

631
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: the words beautiful and troll together. How can a troll

632
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: be beautiful? Oh, because I think it's a is an

633
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: Internet genius, Like every time you post something, he breaks

634
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: the internet. So but I think sometimes it's throwing. I

635
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: mean we're talking about like in being a promoter or crypto.

636
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: I don't think you know, being a promoto does is

637
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 1: you know the best that you can do for crypto,

638
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: but Elon is doing it. So you know, I don't

639
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 1: agree with everything that you know, the must say, but

640
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 1: I have to say that, you know is the is

641
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: an Internet magician, so you know, you have to respect that.

642
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: You know, this idea of security and and some of

643
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: these big names Elon Musk when it comes to potential

644
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: crypto and Twitter and Jack Dorrisey getting deeper into crypto.

645
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, with crypto being down

646
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: even among one of the biggest conferences that surround bitcoin,

647
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: what are you seeing in terms of institutional interests and

648
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: what's stopping people at the end of the day really

649
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 1: from getting in. Nothing is stopping people to get in now.

650
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: I think I think people need to understand that with crypto,

651
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: we sort of we just got into like a thirty

652
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: years uh you know, uh circle of like going up.

653
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: You know, like there is massive adoption anywhere anywhere you

654
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: look at, you know, whether it's cryptocurrencies, n f T s.

655
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: I think that the next big thing will be played

656
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: to earn um and so you know, everyone is coming

657
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: in from from retail perspective, but also from an institutional perspective.

658
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: You know, I've been in these games. It's two does

659
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: and fourteen. And I can tell you that now no

660
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: one is doubting the you know crypto or bitcoin or

661
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: you know bloog chain technologies. Like everyone wants in and

662
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 1: so you have an amazing phenomenon because it's worldwide two

663
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 1: Like everyone is getting in from everywhere in the world.

664
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: And this is actually very unique. This is the first

665
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: time that everyone everywhere in the world is getting in

666
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 1: into the same technology rail. And so this is why

667
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: you see so much momentum going happening right now. Pascal

668
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: Gaultier Ledger CEO and Share will let you get back

669
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: to Bitcoin Miami. Thank you for taking the time along

670
00:37:54,200 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: with Bloomberg. Apple is back online the iphonemaker, announcing it

671
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: will hold its annual Worldwide Developers Conference virtually for the

672
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 1: third year in a row, a sign that major tech

673
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 1: events are still a ways off from returning to pre

674
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: pandemic norms. I want to bring in our Mark German,

675
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: who of course covers Apple for us, So we mark.

676
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: Apple has been leading a push to come back to

677
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: its office for its own employees. Why hold this event

678
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: virtually again? Yeah, they really had no choice but to

679
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: do this virtually, right, We don't know what's going to

680
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: happen with COVID over the next two months or so.

681
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: It's not predictable. These shows take several months to put together, right,

682
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: They either have to put three months of time and

683
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: developing an in person version or three months time developing

684
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: an online version. And it's really hard to put you

685
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: all your effort and if you're splitting it across both,

686
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: so they have to pick one direction, and the in

687
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 1: person direction is just not safe at this point. Who

688
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: knows what could happen with COVID one week or the

689
00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: day of the event where they have to cancel the

690
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: whole thing. Apple was in a position where it really

691
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: couldn't afford to become stuck, so we'd have to go

692
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 1: online only. And the compromises they're going to allow a

693
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: small number of people in the Steve Jobs Theater at

694
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 1: the Apple Park headquarters to watch the prerecorded video live.

695
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: So what are we expecting the substance of this developers

696
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: conference will be? What will be the big announcements? I

697
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,240
Speaker 1: think this is gonna be a fairly strong Apple Developer conference.

698
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: Right They are scheduled to release new Max, including a

699
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: new version of the MacBook Air, around the middle of

700
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: the year, so perhaps they use ABDWDC to introduce that laptop.

701
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: That's going to be a very big deal. Obviously there's

702
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: lots of fans of the MacBook Air and this will

703
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: be the biggest redesign and the product's history, and we'll

704
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: have a new version of the Apple in house. Chips

705
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,280
Speaker 1: were also looking for major fitness tracking and health upgrades

706
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: on the Apple Watch, as well as a pretty big

707
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: update to iOS Dios sixteen, though I'm not expecting a

708
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 1: full blown redesign. And additionally, there should be some conversation

709
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: about a R and VR applications ahead of a larger

710
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: reveal of its mixed reality hardware for its headset later

711
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: this year or next year. You've been reporting on Apple's

712
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: return to the office and push back from some employees.

713
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: How is this evolving? I mean, and could you see

714
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 1: Apple losing talent as a result when you know other

715
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 1: companies are also pushing for people to come back. Yes,

716
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 1: So next week that's the deadline to start returning to

717
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: the office if you're an Apple corporate employee. Right, So

718
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: they'll start one day a week in the office on

719
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: April eleven, right next Monday, and then a few weeks

720
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: after that, it will be two days a week, and

721
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: by the end of May, or a week before the

722
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: end of May, they're going to expect employees in the

723
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: office Monday's, Tuesdays, and Thursdays. Now, I would say there's

724
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: probably at least a few hundred employees who are leaving

725
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: Apple over that policy. But you know, we should note

726
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: that Apple has over a hundred and sixty thousand employees.

727
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: Obviously most of that is retailed. It's still several tens

728
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 1: of thousands of employees, so this is a small number

729
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 1: of people all together. The interesting thing to me, if you,

730
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: if anyone wants to read my Business Week story on this,

731
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,879
Speaker 1: is that Apple put out a nine minute advertisement how

732
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 1: how great its own products, software and services are for

733
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: remote work. Yeah, it's recording those very people who developed

734
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: those products to work from the office. So a little

735
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: bit of irony right there. Irony. Indeed, Mark German as

736
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: always great to have you. Thanks, and that does it

737
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: for this edition of Bloomberg Technology. We are back tomorrow.

738
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: We're gonna be joined by J. B. Unknown, President and

739
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: CEO of eBay. And don't forget to check out our podcasts.

740
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: Find it anywhere you get your podcast. I'm Emily Chang

741
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg