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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and

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Speaker 1: Matt's and today we're discussing smart people doing dumb things

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Speaker 1: with their money with Jill Slessinger. We all make some

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Speaker 1: financial mistakes from time to time, but hopefully through through reading,

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Speaker 1: listening to podcast, and learning from our previous mistakes, we

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Speaker 1: can move forward and make smarter moves with our money.

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Speaker 1: That's what we're covering during this interview. Our guest today

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Speaker 1: is Jill Slessinger, who is an on air CBS News

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Speaker 1: business analyst, and she covers the economy and business as

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Speaker 1: she guides people through their personal financial decisions. Jill is

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Speaker 1: a certified financial planner and also the author of the

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Speaker 1: book The Dumb Things that Smart People Do with Their Money.

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Speaker 1: We're going to spend some time talking about a lot

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Speaker 1: of those dumb things today, said Jill, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining us today on the podcast. Well, thanks for

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Speaker 1: having me. This is such an honor. I feel very

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Speaker 1: blessed to be with you. Guys. Well, we feel very

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Speaker 1: blessed that you're here with us. And one dumb thing

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Speaker 1: that people do, Jill, is they drink beer when they're

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Speaker 1: talking about money. Uh, And that's what Matt and I

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Speaker 1: do we drink here? That to be why uh? And

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Speaker 1: today on the show, we're drinking a a I p

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Speaker 1: a called Wedge salad Um and it's by two different

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Speaker 1: breweries Collaboration Beer. But I wanted to ask you since

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Speaker 1: Matt and I we intentionally drink a craft beer on

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Speaker 1: every episode, and it's kind of this splurge that we

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Speaker 1: that we partake in while we're saving and investing well

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Speaker 1: for our future. So I wanted to ask you what

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Speaker 1: is your splurge? What's your craft beer equivalent? I do

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Speaker 1: a couple of different things seasonally, and I think that

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Speaker 1: that's very important because I just don't want you to

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Speaker 1: think I'm a complete boozer all the time without any

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Speaker 1: idea about what my surroundings are. So I live in

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Speaker 1: the Northeast. In the wintertime, I do love bourbon. I

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Speaker 1: love single malt scotches. But you know, here we are

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Speaker 1: coming into the summer, and I do really like myself

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Speaker 1: a little tequila. So um, I can do tequila gin

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Speaker 1: in the summer and amber liquors all other times of

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Speaker 1: the year. Man, Joe, we could hang on the rad Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I feel like my wife in particular starts drinking more

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Speaker 1: tequila in the spring. In the summer, you know, like

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Speaker 1: once sinking to MIA's hit like the rest of the summer,

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Speaker 1: it's just wide open to Margarita's. Exactly. I don't even

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Speaker 1: do Margarita's because to me, adding sugar is just a

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Speaker 1: devastating bad idea and I always feel it the next morning.

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Speaker 1: So I'm I'm just straight up that's it. Give me

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Speaker 1: a little Blanco Rocks, a little bit of alime done nice.

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Speaker 1: I like it. Well, Jill, let's kind of dive into

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Speaker 1: it here. Your family has a fascinating history with money.

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Speaker 1: You come from a long line of Wall Street traders,

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Speaker 1: and you followed in your your father's footsteps as well.

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Speaker 1: So what was it like trading on the floor of

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Speaker 1: the New York Commodities Exchange. I always like to think

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Speaker 1: of it as it's a frat party meets a rugby

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Speaker 1: scrum and um, and if you think about that, you know,

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Speaker 1: I am a woman of a certain age, i e.

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Speaker 1: Mid fifties, and so the idea of animal house but

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Speaker 1: we do it actually wearing uniforms and in a rugby

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Speaker 1: scrum kind of seems about right. And um. I was

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Speaker 1: one of eight women with eight hundred men, which I

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Speaker 1: didn't mind much. I mean, not that I was out

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Speaker 1: and gay then, but I was very comfortable around men

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Speaker 1: because I grew up playing sports my whole life and

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Speaker 1: being the only girl out there. But it was disgusting,

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Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, the whole Me Too movement. I mean

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Speaker 1: I had just the most awful things done to me.

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Speaker 1: Not violent things, but like discussing things every day and

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Speaker 1: um not that you know, anyone would like sort of

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Speaker 1: feel you up in the middle of a trading pit,

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Speaker 1: but they would elbow you and jostle you and shove

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Speaker 1: you and pull your hair and you know, call you

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Speaker 1: really awful words that nice rolls from Scarsdale, New York

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Speaker 1: don't ever say or think about saying. And so just

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Speaker 1: like in the first week of my career on Wall

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Speaker 1: Street as a commodities trader, I was called an effing

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Speaker 1: idiot in front of a huge crowd of people, and

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to cry. In fact, I went to

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Speaker 1: the bathroom to cry. But anyway, it was it was

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Speaker 1: a great place to have worked. It's like being in

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Speaker 1: a place where you're like it was a great place

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Speaker 1: to grow up. And I'm glad I never have to

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Speaker 1: go back there, glad to be done with it, done

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Speaker 1: with all that craziness. Yeah, that sounds like being one

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Speaker 1: of eight females in a group of nine men. That

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Speaker 1: that is that's going to leave an impression on you.

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Speaker 1: That's especially you know, thirty years ago, right, or it's

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a different time, different time. Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: And one of the funniest things that Like, early in

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Speaker 1: my career, I had a boss who was a tough

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Speaker 1: guy from Chicago and a lot so I was an

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Speaker 1: options trade. I didn't trade futurist contracts. I traded the derivatives,

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Speaker 1: the contract that derived its value from the futures contracts.

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Speaker 1: So I traded gold, silver, and copper. Options and options

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Speaker 1: is sort of a mathematical sport in some respects. And

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Speaker 1: as a result, you know, you've got this weird mix

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Speaker 1: of sort of tough asses mixed with you know, math

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Speaker 1: nerds and everyone in between. And I remember my first

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Speaker 1: boss was sort of this math nerd from University of Chicago,

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Speaker 1: but he was sort of a tough guy too, and

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Speaker 1: he said to me, you went to an Ivy League school,

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Speaker 1: didn't you. And I thought, oh, he's like recognizing man

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy, also good about myself. I said, oh, yes, exactly.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yes, because which which one? I said, uh, Brown, Brown, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he goes. What's that like in Rhode Island or something.

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Speaker 1: I said, yeah, he goes. You can take your Ivy

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Speaker 1: League degree and stick it up your butt down here.

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Speaker 1: No one gives them crap where you've come problem? And

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Speaker 1: that was that was like, okay, I'm never mentioning that again.

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Speaker 1: You thought he was gonna have this nice genial conversation,

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Speaker 1: but not so much. No, not at all. Well, and Jill,

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Speaker 1: I want to ask about when you went to Brown.

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Speaker 1: You were a soccer player. You played soccer in high school,

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Speaker 1: you played soccer in college. You mentioned kind of too

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Speaker 1: that trading pit was was kind of like a sporting

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Speaker 1: event and and so yeah, do you feel like that soccer,

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Speaker 1: the fast paced environment of playing high school and college

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Speaker 1: sports kind of prepared you for maybe something that most

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Speaker 1: people wouldn't be prepared for. Oh. Absolutely, you know it's

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Speaker 1: interesting when um, the only reason, I mean, look, there's

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Speaker 1: a few reasons that I got this job. First of all,

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Speaker 1: my dad was a trader on the floor of the

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Speaker 1: American Stock Exchange. My uncle was a trader on the

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Speaker 1: floor the New York Stock Exchange, so I had experience

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Speaker 1: on a physical trading floor, which essentially is like unheard

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Speaker 1: of now, right. And then when companies would recruit for

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Speaker 1: people to trade on the physical trading floor, they always

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Speaker 1: wanted to work with athletes. They actually went to recruit athletes. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: And there's a couple of reasons why. One is that

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Speaker 1: you have the idea of making decisions on your feet.

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Speaker 1: You have the idea of I know how to lose

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Speaker 1: and move on, and you have the idea of actually

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Speaker 1: physically being able to manage it. I wanted to be

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Speaker 1: a trader in the oil pit, but um, I wasn't

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Speaker 1: big enough. And I'm I mean, I'm five eleven, but

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Speaker 1: I wasn't big and they did, they did. They thought

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Speaker 1: I'd get pushed around too much. It's really crazy. I've

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Speaker 1: never heard it described just from that much of a

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Speaker 1: physical standpoint, Like you mean you said literally you're making

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Speaker 1: decisions on your feet, Like literally you're on your feet

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Speaker 1: making decisions running around. Yeah. I wasn't quite aware of

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Speaker 1: the physical nature of being in the pit like that

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Speaker 1: kind of your brass knuckles ready, Yeah, exactly. Well, Joey.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've heard you say that you didn't like

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Speaker 1: making money, you know, quite as much as maybe you

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Speaker 1: thought you would. That kind of seems like maybe an

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Speaker 1: almost enlightened point of view, you know, especially for a

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Speaker 1: money expert. So how did you come to that realization?

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Speaker 1: And like, what did you mean by that? Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: when I was a young trader, there was uh it

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Speaker 1: was the late eighties, so I mean my I started

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Speaker 1: trading the summer of seven. I mean I didn't even trade.

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Speaker 1: I was started as a clerk on the floor of

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Speaker 1: the Commodities exchange by August, almost September. They were the

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Speaker 1: people who had hired me this firm that no longer

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Speaker 1: exists anymore. It's been subsumed already. They said, Okay, everyone's

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Speaker 1: making so much money, let's just put these kids out there.

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Speaker 1: And my boss, my boss's boss sat us down and said,

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Speaker 1: there are six of you here. We hope that half

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Speaker 1: of you lose all the money in the account and

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Speaker 1: no more. Two of you make decent money in one's

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Speaker 1: a knock you know, like knock your socks out performer,

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Speaker 1: and so you each have a million dollar limited your account.

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Speaker 1: We will not allow you to lose more than a

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Speaker 1: million dollars. As soon as you lose a million dollars,

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Speaker 1: you are done and you're fired and don't even show

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Speaker 1: up for work the next day. So what was interesting

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Speaker 1: is that, you know, I was sort of like the

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Speaker 1: single and doubles double hitter. Know, I was the one

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Speaker 1: who was like finished the year. You know, we had

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Speaker 1: the big market crash in October eighty seven, I made

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Speaker 1: a bunch of money. Um, I worked for almost a

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Speaker 1: whole year after that. So I traded, and I remember

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Speaker 1: in basically around uh the end of the year, I

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Speaker 1: was talking to my dad and his business partner and

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Speaker 1: I said, you know, gosh, I think I'll just buy

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Speaker 1: my own seat. I'll trade for myself. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I can afford to buy the seat myself, but I

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Speaker 1: need money, and so they backed me. They put money

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Speaker 1: in an account and we split it. And then you know,

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Speaker 1: I was clicking along making decent money, and I had

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Speaker 1: one bonanza month, like in nine in the summer, I

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Speaker 1: had a huge month, and my dad's over my teeny

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Speaker 1: tiny rent controlled studio apartment and he's looking at my

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Speaker 1: profit and loss statement just we had physical sheets, and

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Speaker 1: he goes, honey, yet some month. What a month? And

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Speaker 1: I turned to him, I'm like yeah, and he looked

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Speaker 1: at me and he said, what do you mean, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I said, yes, it was a good month. He said,

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Speaker 1: you made more money in that one month then most

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Speaker 1: of your peers will make in an entire year and

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Speaker 1: maybe a couple of years. And you know what, honey,

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Speaker 1: if you don't get any thrill out of making money

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Speaker 1: when the money is there to be made, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if this is the right business for you, because

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Speaker 1: there's nothing else. It really isn't. So you've got to

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Speaker 1: love making the money. You have to know that it is.

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Speaker 1: You're not, you know, finding the great cause to advance.

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Speaker 1: You're not you know, bringing a company public. Even you're not,

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Speaker 1: You're you're an intermediary who picks up. At that time,

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Speaker 1: we used to say eighths and steinths, you know, little

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Speaker 1: little fractions of a trade. And it's fun. And he said,

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Speaker 1: and I've loved it my whole life because I had

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Speaker 1: flexibility and I could come home and watch every single

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Speaker 1: one of your soccer and basketball games and be part

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Speaker 1: of you and your sisters lives and not be like

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Speaker 1: the idiots who are you know, lawyers and doctors and

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Speaker 1: have no life. But if you don't like that, if

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Speaker 1: you don't like making money, you're gonna have a problem.

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Speaker 1: And it stuck with me, and it took me like

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Speaker 1: another couple of years before I said, I don't really

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Speaker 1: like this that much. I don't feel good about myself.

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like I don't like who I am

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Speaker 1: on the trading floor, and I feel like it's important

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Speaker 1: that I figure out how to be a little bit

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Speaker 1: truer to what makes me happy. And that was it.

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Speaker 1: I was done. Yeah, so how did you How did

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Speaker 1: you go about quitting them? Wouldn't that look like? Well?

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Speaker 1: First I cried and told my parents, because you know,

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Speaker 1: you have to understand, there was like this great unspoken

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Speaker 1: expectation that I was going to go into my father's firm,

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Speaker 1: and all of his partners had that expectation, and I

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Speaker 1: had that expectation. So that was one very difficult aspect

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Speaker 1: of it. Um I was dating somebody who was in

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Speaker 1: medical school actually up at Brown, and I felt like

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Speaker 1: it was great because I could sort of escape and

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Speaker 1: not really deal with my career in decision, you know.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, people didn't just quit jobs then,

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Speaker 1: you know, we didn't. We are not of that same generation. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: that's my dog tricks. She wanted to underscore that. Um,

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Speaker 1: so I think that it was. So I went up

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Speaker 1: I figured I'd be there a couple of years, well

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Speaker 1: you know, medical school finished up for my partner at

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Speaker 1: the time, and then just figure it out. And that

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Speaker 1: was it was sort of like this weird interim move

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Speaker 1: that was supposed to be just a couple of years

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Speaker 1: and maybe come back to New York and see what

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Speaker 1: happens next. Cool. Yeah, and now you're big time CBS

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Speaker 1: News analyst Jill Slessenger. So yeah, how does what's your

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Speaker 1: role look like in media? How? How do you How

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Speaker 1: do you like that job? How's that transition been? Is

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Speaker 1: it better than getting jostled in the pit? Um? Well,

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Speaker 1: in the in between jostling in the pit and media,

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Speaker 1: I was an investment advisor, a certified financial planner and

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Speaker 1: an investment advisor little company up in New England, grew

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Speaker 1: it from nothing, became very big um, and then sold it.

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Speaker 1: I did it for fourteen years and I had clients

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Speaker 1: and it was great because I really did feel like, wow,

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Speaker 1: this is a way for me to use my financial acumen,

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Speaker 1: my love of solving problems, but bring it to somebody

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Speaker 1: and fix a real issue, not a academic statistical question,

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Speaker 1: which is really what it is to trade a derivatives contract.

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Speaker 1: It's just like a great puzzle. It's like the Rubik's

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Speaker 1: cube of money making. You know, you're just like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is so cool, and you get into a rhythm

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Speaker 1: and it feels great. So I did that for fourteen years.

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Speaker 1: And one of the ways that we grew our business

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Speaker 1: was we hosted a radio show, and then that led

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Speaker 1: to doing some television. And I had two really wonderful

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Speaker 1: people who kind of guided me and said, Hey, you're

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Speaker 1: really good at this radio. You're really good at this TV.

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Speaker 1: Even though it's not your primary business, we'd love to

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Speaker 1: talk to you as if it were. We're going to

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Speaker 1: treat you like talent. And I said, I, oh, great.

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Speaker 1: As long as I get people to fork over their money,

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Speaker 1: let me manage it, that's fine. You know, I was

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Speaker 1: all I cared about. And then slowly but surely I

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Speaker 1: started getting more national exposure. And then right in the

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Speaker 1: beginning of the financial crisis, early on, someone from CBS

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Speaker 1: saw me on CNN, and they called me up and said,

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Speaker 1: you know, would you be willing to come here? And

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Speaker 1: you know, are you exclusive there? No, And so I

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Speaker 1: started doing some stuff for CBS. In the beginning of

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine, I was done with my business. I

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Speaker 1: had sold it, I had done my contract and ready

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Speaker 1: to move on. And someone called me from CBS Talent

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Speaker 1: and said, we're hiring and we really think you should

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Speaker 1: talk to us and do this. And I said, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, I've been working seven days a week, seven clients, employees.

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Speaker 1: I can't even think about this. I'm not doing anything.

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Speaker 1: And three weeks later I signed a contract. And that

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Speaker 1: was eleven years ago. Yeah, it's awesome. Let me just

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Speaker 1: say this that being in the media fantastic job. It's

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Speaker 1: like the best job I've ever had. I'm the luckiest

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Speaker 1: person in the world. It is. So it's like a

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Speaker 1: supreme delight. It's like, I'm sure you guys feel this way.

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Speaker 1: It's like you are helping people, giving them information. It's actionable,

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Speaker 1: it's great. There's nothing, there's no downside. I mean, and

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Speaker 1: they do my hair and makeup and themstances. It's even better.

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Speaker 1: When you're a podcaster. You don't even have to do

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Speaker 1: hair and makeup, right, Yeah, I mean, I don't know

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Speaker 1: how often we think about podcasting is media, and I

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Speaker 1: mean we know it is like from a you know,

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Speaker 1: head knowledge standpoint, but obviously, yeah, certainly the ability to

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Speaker 1: impact individuals lives and help them when it comes to

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Speaker 1: their personal finances and money, uh, certainly incredibly rewarding. And Joe,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna dive into your book. We're gonna talk about

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Speaker 1: some of the specific dumb things that you know, we

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Speaker 1: all might do with our money. We're gonna talk about

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Speaker 1: that as well as maybe a little bit too how

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Speaker 1: the pandemic has impacted our personal finances. And we'll get

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Speaker 1: to that right after the break. All right, we're back

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Speaker 1: from Great We're talking with Jill Slessinger, and Jill's time

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Speaker 1: to dive into some stuff about how people handle their money.

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Speaker 1: I would love hearing your backstory and the trading. Fascinating stuff.

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Speaker 1: But let's talk about people's emotions when it comes to

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Speaker 1: our finances. And in your book, you argue that even

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Speaker 1: the smartest individuals out there can do incredibly stupid things

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Speaker 1: with their money. So how do otherwise smart people end

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Speaker 1: up making idiotic decisions when it comes to their finances. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: they are afflicted with this condition called being a human being. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And you know, don't you feel it all the time,

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Speaker 1: even in yourself. You know these sort of golden rules

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Speaker 1: have how to manage your money, about your financial life,

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Speaker 1: and you even feel the drift of of your emotions

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Speaker 1: starting to inflict something on you. And it's like the

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Speaker 1: sense that I really want to do this, but I can't.

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Speaker 1: And so the the analogy I always give is is

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Speaker 1: diet and exercise. You know, everybody knows exactly what right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's like you know what to do. You

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Speaker 1: don't have to buy another stupid diet book. You don't

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Speaker 1: need to move your body and don't eat as much. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's really it doesn't matter even what it is. So

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Speaker 1: it's the same thing with personal finance. You kind of

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Speaker 1: know what you should be doing and you don't do it.

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Speaker 1: And mostly it's just because you're a human being and

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Speaker 1: there are emotions are so so strong. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things I wanted to do in the book was

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Speaker 1: to explore the the emotional pull because listen, when I

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Speaker 1: was an investment advisor, I gave advice to people who

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Speaker 1: were far smarter than I. They were really you know,

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Speaker 1: there were geniuses, there were physicists, and there were you know, academics,

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Speaker 1: and they were lawyers and they were doctors. These people

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Speaker 1: were super smart, but again they were just human beings

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Speaker 1: and they couldn't get out of their own way. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's really the root cause of most financial

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Speaker 1: problems is that your emotions take over and it's really

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Speaker 1: difficult to control them. Have the problems us being human

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Speaker 1: if it's humanity in general, that makes a solution really

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Speaker 1: difficult exactly. But you know what's interesting, I would say,

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Speaker 1: is that so much of what you can do today

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Speaker 1: takes that emotional element out of it. You know, if

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Speaker 1: if you go back in time, if you kind of

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Speaker 1: wind the clock back, and I say, twenty years ago

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Speaker 1: when I was giving financial advice, we didn't have automatic

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Speaker 1: trading platforms for individuals, and we didn't have auto rebalancing,

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Speaker 1: and we didn't have auto enrollment. So these automatic technological

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Speaker 1: solutions are actually helping people stay out of trouble. Not enough,

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Speaker 1: but yes, they really are. It's a good step in

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Speaker 1: the right direction. Kind of as you talk about the book,

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Speaker 1: you talk about these emotional blind spots that we have.

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Speaker 1: How can like individuals essentially identify which blind spot they have,

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Speaker 1: because obviously, if they're not even aware of it to

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Speaker 1: begin with, how do they know to work on, you know,

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Speaker 1: that specific area. Like, So, how how would you recommend

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Speaker 1: for individuals to identify their own emotional blind spots? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think part of it is to you have to

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Speaker 1: be aware of self aware of person. So if you're

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Speaker 1: just blithely walking through life, I'm probably not going to

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Speaker 1: help you, and you're not gonna buy my book anyway,

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Speaker 1: because you probably don't think that you're making a mistake

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Speaker 1: at all. But most of us, I think, are mature

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Speaker 1: enough to realize that there are things that we are

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Speaker 1: doing in our financial life that maybe don't look so great. Um,

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Speaker 1: And part of it is maybe it's just something you're

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Speaker 1: not able to do. Why am I unable to actually

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Speaker 1: get me and my partner to sit down and draft

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Speaker 1: our estate documents? Or what why am I staying up

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Speaker 1: at night worrying about my four oh one K Or

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Speaker 1: why is it that I every time I say I

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Speaker 1: want to do something in the financial realm, I second

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Speaker 1: guest myself a zillion times. And frankly, you know from

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Speaker 1: the pretty base level. There are people who know they're

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Speaker 1: in trouble financially, and chances are you got there for

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Speaker 1: some reason. Some of those mistakes are really hard to eradicate.

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Speaker 1: But I can't go back in time and say, gosh,

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Speaker 1: I wish that you did not go to a fourth

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Speaker 1: tier private school rack up a bunch of debt for

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Speaker 1: no reason, like I really do wish that most people

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Speaker 1: didn't do that. The chapter about college funding in the

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Speaker 1: book is essentially the thesis is, if you can go

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Speaker 1: to a top tier school and there's a real name

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Speaker 1: brand that's going to help propel a kid, then sure.

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Speaker 1: Or if you're really rich and you could afford to

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Speaker 1: send your kid to a four year party and you

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Speaker 1: don't care, fine, go spend your money. I don't care.

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Speaker 1: I'm more worried about the people in the middle who

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Speaker 1: are borrowing a ton of money as parents putting kids

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Speaker 1: who are accumulating debt. They come out of a high

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Speaker 1: priced private school that doesn't is not a name brand,

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Speaker 1: and it does nothing for them, And so I worry

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Speaker 1: about those people. But when I was shopping around at

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Speaker 1: the book, when I was just had a proposal, I

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Speaker 1: made a comment and I don't know where you guys

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Speaker 1: went to college, So I'll just make it tell you that.

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Speaker 1: Like I basically said to um, you know, like, if

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Speaker 1: you were so stupid to spend two hundred thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: on wassam out of you and I named the college

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Speaker 1: and a woman's face that the blood was drawn from

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Speaker 1: her face, She's like, I went to that school's yeah.

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Speaker 1: So honestly I didn't get her on the project. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so you know, so one of the things that

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Speaker 1: I think happens is that people when they they want

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Speaker 1: to do well for their kids, they want to do

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Speaker 1: well for their families, they don't really know the right

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Speaker 1: questions to ask. They they sort of take certain rules

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Speaker 1: of thumb from a previous generation they apply it to them,

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Speaker 1: and in the end, unfortunately, what a lot of people

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Speaker 1: will do is they'll just sort of make a bad decision,

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Speaker 1: not because they're dumb, but because they don't know the

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Speaker 1: They don't know the right way where to turn. So

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Speaker 1: you know that that to me is sort of your

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Speaker 1: your critical factor that like something is in your life

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Speaker 1: and you're you're agonizing her. I had a colleague at work,

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Speaker 1: his son just got into all these different schools, and

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Speaker 1: you know, we went through all the numbers, and in

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Speaker 1: one scenario, the kid ends up graduating with nine dollars

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Speaker 1: in debt and the other one he has zero debt.

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Speaker 1: So I had a conversation with a kid I said,

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Speaker 1: I want to explain to you what nine dollars in

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Speaker 1: debt looks like when you know, I want to just

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Speaker 1: push forward five years and tell you what that looks like.

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Speaker 1: And it was great coming for me because he's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I don't want that. Yeah, that's a lot of people

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Speaker 1: kids graduate from college finding themselves in that situation. It's

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Speaker 1: not a pretty place to be. Uh yeah. So, John,

427
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 1: want to ask you the number one thing you wrote

428
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,199
Speaker 1: about in your book that the first of all of

429
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: the dumb money moves that even smart people tend to make,

430
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 1: you said, is buying financial products that we don't understand.

431
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 1: So you talked about infomercial selling precious metals or potentially

432
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 1: a golfing buddy pitching you, and annuity, and they both

433
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: sound so good in the moment, and it's so easy

434
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 1: in a quick one minute pitch to feel like, yeah, yeah,

435
00:22:57,960 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 1: that sounds pretty nice. I need to take advantage of that.

436
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 1: But how do we avoid that one. How do we

437
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 1: avoid getting a financial product putting our money into something

438
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: that we don't really comprehend. Well, I think that when

439
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,640
Speaker 1: somebody is approaching you with an idea, the first thing

440
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 1: is if you don't really understand it and you can't

441
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 1: explain it to somebody else, chances are put the brakes on.

442
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 1: You need more information. But also this also gets into

443
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 1: the idea that you're not only you are buying products

444
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 1: that you don't understand, but you're buying from people that

445
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 1: don't have your best interests at heart. And to me,

446
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 1: this is incredibly important. This is called the fiduciary standard,

447
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 1: which you guys I know are familiar with, but it

448
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 1: just means that in the world of financial professionals. It's

449
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: so strange, but most people who are in financial services

450
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 1: are not required to put you first. They're required to

451
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 1: give you advice that's suitable to you, but not the

452
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 1: best advice for you. And there's something really crazy about that.

453
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 1: I know it head scratcher. But one of the things

454
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 1: that I always say is that until you understand whether

455
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: the person is held to this fiduciary standard or not,

456
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: it's you just know that you're being sold something. And

457
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 1: if you're being sold something, you approach it in a

458
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,479
Speaker 1: different way. And if you don't understand what you're being sold,

459
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: then you just pause and you can get another opinion.

460
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: And if you really don't understand it after trying to

461
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: understand it, like for hours, then just don't do it.

462
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: The complexity of most products is a tell. The complexity

463
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,959
Speaker 1: tells you if you get like this four hundred page

464
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: document along like your broker, your salesman says here, you know,

465
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 1: here's you don't have to read the whole this whole thing,

466
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: this is what it is. The thicker that document, the

467
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 1: more risk it it has to you, and chances are

468
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: the more money it will make for him who's selling

469
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 1: it to you. Well, Jill, speaking of risk, I've seen

470
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: before that you know, you've recommended to folks to have

471
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: like six to twelve months of expenses right in an

472
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: emergency fund like this pretty basic advice as far as

473
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,959
Speaker 1: having that margin, having that that cash cushion. And this

474
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 1: was even before the Great lockdown. You know, has your

475
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,439
Speaker 1: advice to folks changed due to the pandemic? No, but

476
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: don't I sound brilliant? Now? So many people are like

477
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: cash is trash. I don't think I need it, and

478
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: then a pandemic hits and you're like, oh, that's why

479
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: cash is that that is a very conservative amount of

480
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: money to you know, to have set aside. Like typically,

481
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of folks will say three months,

482
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 1: you know, or you know, three to six months. But yeah,

483
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. Well. I

484
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: think this is again one of the benefits of working

485
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: with real people and understanding what it means to not

486
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: have that money and the bad decisions you're forced to

487
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: make when you don't have that little nest egg. I

488
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 1: think what people fail to understand is whatever emergency you

489
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: think you're thinking about, most people will say it's an

490
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: emergency reserve fund because you know, my boiler blew blew up,

491
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: and I have to spend you know, four grand on

492
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: a new boiler, right, That's one kind of an emergency.

493
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: The emergency that I'm much more worried about is the

494
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: emergency where your earning capacity is really curtailed, you know,

495
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: when you look at pre pandemic. Well, I'll give you

496
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: an example. I have a friend who's a dermatologist and

497
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: she lives in the New York metropolitan area, and you know,

498
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: she makes hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, and

499
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: this year she will make less than a hundred thousand

500
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: dollars and a big difference. And for the people who

501
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: work for her in our office who might have been

502
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: making you know, let's say that you are a technician

503
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 1: and you are somebody who was in a big office

504
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: like that you are making eighty thousand dollars a year,

505
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: and now you're going to make thirty five thousand dollars

506
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: a year, and so you might even be lucky, because

507
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 1: you might be you'd be able to retain your job. Now,

508
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: if I'm somebody who likes statistics, which I am admittedly,

509
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 1: and I like probability, and I like to understand outcomes,

510
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: I will tell you that the devastating outcome is far

511
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 1: worse than the upside potential makes your life better. And

512
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 1: that's what people don't understand that. It's sort of the

513
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: same concept of if I have a balanced portfolio, chances

514
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 1: are I'll be just fine. But in a downturn, do

515
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: I trust myself to stick with that portfolio? That's really aggressive?

516
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 1: We'll say, I remember a lot of people just found

517
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 1: out the answer to that question over the last couple

518
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: of months, yeah, for sure, and that that's number six

519
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: on your list is the risky investment options, And so, yeah,

520
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: what are some of the big ways you see individual

521
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: investors getting too risky with their investments to to their detriment.

522
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: I think that one of the things that becomes quite

523
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: alluring is this fear of missing out on something. And

524
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: we've all felt that. I could think about the two thousand,

525
00:27:54,520 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: five six seven era, right, and everybody you've got as

526
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: are probably too young. But you know, I just knew

527
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: a ton of people who are making so much money

528
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: in real estate. They're just crushing it, right, and like

529
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: making money hand over fist, and and I go back

530
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: even beyond before that. I knew people in the tech

531
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: boom of the nineties who, you know, unless they were

532
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: working for companies, you know, like those people you know

533
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: really did make real money. But um, you know people

534
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: who were buying and selling stocks and day trading and

535
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: making a lot of money. And and there was always

536
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: a part of me that was like, I must be

537
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: an idiot that like, I don't know, I don't feel

538
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: comfortable with that, Like something's not right here. And then

539
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 1: the bottom falls out and you realize, oh, that's risky. Well,

540
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: I think we just had that lesson on steroids. I

541
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: think that we came into and, you know, a the

542
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: longest bull market on record in stocks, the longest expansion

543
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: on record for the economy, and the the the attitude

544
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: was almost a blatant disregard for the fact that the

545
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: money that was invested in the stock market, in some

546
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: of the edgier bonds, in some of these private equity

547
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: and hedge funds that are just totally dopey and mostly

548
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: not worth it. That the risk essentially was always there,

549
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: but because markets were rising, people just ignored it. And

550
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: so everyone feels like a hero in a bowl market.

551
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: I can take risk. I can take risk. And I

552
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: don't know about you guys, but in March I got

553
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: some pretty scary number of people who were freaking out.

554
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: And why would they freaking out? Because they had so

555
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: much risk in their portfolio, and of course they knew

556
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: it on the way in, but they just didn't pay

557
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: attention to it. Well, I mean, yeah, so like kind

558
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: of on that note, you know, one of the dumb

559
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: things you mentioned in your book that folks do is

560
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: when they do try to time the market, and so like,

561
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: do you see a difference between you know, buying when

562
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: the market is on sale versus trying to time the market? Like,

563
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: is there a difference to you? Depends? Okay. I admit

564
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: in the book that I tried to time the market

565
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: and I got one leg really right and became like

566
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: locally famous for it because I called the top of

567
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: the tech bubble, and then I missed getting back in,

568
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: which is always the other leg of the journey. That's

569
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: very difficult about timing the market. Here's what I think

570
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,239
Speaker 1: is a little different. All right, I'll use myself as

571
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: a case. Uh. In March, I had to make a

572
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, taxes were due right in in April, right,

573
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: and so I was like, markets off, I'm gonna put

574
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: all I'm gonna just put all the money in my

575
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: I have a personal four oh one K and a

576
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: defined benefit plan. And I was like, markets off, pretty dramatically,

577
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: I'm just going to pop it all in right now,

578
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: right now, done. And I did that, and now the

579
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: market kept going down. And I didn't say, oh I

580
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: wish I bought the bottom. But you know, so there's

581
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: money that has to get invested. I thought I had

582
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: a month to invest it, and I was like, markets down,

583
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: might as well do it now Versus this, I'm going

584
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: to wait until the market goes to blank and then

585
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: I'll get in, and then not actually ever getting in,

586
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: and then coming back to you know now and being like, oh, no,

587
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: I wish I had gotten back in. So I think

588
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: that a lot of people are trying to figure out

589
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: what is the intersection of market timing versus risk management.

590
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things that I think

591
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: is important is if you've if you learned a very

592
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: nasty lesson about risk over the past ninety days, it's

593
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: okay to change your allocation. You thought you were a

594
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: nine percent stock ten percent bond kind of investor. You

595
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: learned in the downturn that you've freaked out. You really

596
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: can't take risk like that and you're really more of

597
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: a seventy thirty. I'm okay with you going seventy thirty,

598
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: as long as you don't start messing around with it

599
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: once the market starts going higher. So it's whatever you've

600
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: learned and add of this period, you create a system,

601
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: you stick to the system. I'm not one for timing

602
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: the market so much. Anymore. I mean, I used to

603
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: love trading. It was a fun thing. I don't do

604
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: it anymore, so I have someone else managed my money.

605
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: By the way, I don't even do it for myself

606
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: because I don't want to get sucked into that world.

607
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: There's a certain amount of discipline and time and energy

608
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: that's required, and I don't have it anymore. So I

609
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: think that if you want to have like a fun

610
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: money account and play a little bit, great, go do it.

611
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: Good luck. Yeah, no, I think that's some good advice. Joe. Hey,

612
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: we've got a few more questions for you on a

613
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: few other spects that you covered in your book, including

614
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: buying a home versus renting, and we'll get to some

615
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: of those right after the break. Alright, we're back from

616
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: the break talking here with Jill Slessinger, and yeah, let's

617
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: talk about renting versus buying. Jill, we're totally with you

618
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: on the American obsession with buying a home. You mentioned

619
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: this in your book. Renting can often be a much

620
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: better move for folks. But why do you think so

621
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: many people refuse to see the light on this one?

622
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: Because we are our parents children. Really, I actually think

623
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: that it is true Um, if you talk to anybody

624
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: who is over the age of forty, they have parents

625
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: who drilled into them that you must own something, otherwise

626
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: you were throwing away your money or the you know,

627
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: you're throwing your money down the drain. Why are you renting?

628
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,959
Speaker 1: And I think the problem is that real estate never

629
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: was quite as good in investment as everybody made it

630
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: out to be. Here's why, you know, I think about

631
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: my parents. My parents bought their first home in nineteen

632
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: sixty two, okay, And so when my parents bought their

633
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: house for I think twenty five thousand dollars, and then

634
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: you know outside you know, in the suburbs of New York.

635
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: And then when they ultimately sold it before they moved

636
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,240
Speaker 1: to another house, but let's call it nineteen sixty early

637
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 1: sixties to late eighties, and they sold it for six dollars. Okay.

638
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: Now you might say, oh, my god, look at all

639
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: the money you made. But actually, which I proved to

640
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: my father and made him so depressed, he did make

641
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: good money. But um, when you account for inflation, housing

642
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: prices just really go up with the pace of inflation.

643
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: It's amazing. Now there are big spikes in certain times

644
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: and their dips in certain times, but over the long haul,

645
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: most people who own real estate it's an investment that

646
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: does maybe a little bit better than the pace of inflation,

647
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: which is fine, that's great. So I think the problem

648
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: is that there's like a romance around it. You know.

649
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: That is why these funny home decorating magazines exist, and

650
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: that's why these shows Flipped This House and all these

651
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: kind of home improvement shows get you know, it is

652
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,439
Speaker 1: real estate porn, right, it's so much fun to look

653
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: at it. But I think that if you really run

654
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: the numbers for each family, many families would have been

655
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 1: better off renting and not owning. And I think the

656
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: compulsion to own is a big mistake because it does

657
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: sap people of the liquidity, the extra money they might

658
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,280
Speaker 1: need to have options down the line. And that's really

659
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: my main point about renting versus owning, that you never

660
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: know until you run the numbers. And for some people

661
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,399
Speaker 1: it's great, owning ownership is great, but don't just go

662
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: into it without actually considering what the alternative is like.

663
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: You don't make an investment without saying, Okay, what am

664
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: I comparing this to my risk free return? Right? I'm

665
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,879
Speaker 1: I'm making an investment to compared to what I could

666
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: earn on a tenure treasury. Okay, great, now let me

667
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: go from there. You need a comparison, and you can

668
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: do this in every single market. All you have to

669
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: do is you can pop into a calculator rent versus

670
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: by calculator and you can see. And also it takes

671
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: you off the hook. So many people who live in

672
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: these high priced markets, they feel such pressure, and all

673
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: of a sudden, it's like, you don't have to feel

674
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: such pressure. Relax. Who says you have to buy a house? Yeah,

675
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: and especially in some of those high cost markets. The

676
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: it even makes more sense to rent in the higher

677
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: cost cities, right, definitely. And so you were talking about

678
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 1: how you proved your dad wrong and he made him

679
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: a little depressed telling him about how bad of a

680
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: decision you made buy in that house. Number eleven on

681
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,800
Speaker 1: your list of dumb money moves is smart people. That

682
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,760
Speaker 1: smart people make is saddling their kids with their own

683
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: money issues. So can you explain how parents can negatively

684
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 1: affect their children's view of money? How does that happen? Well,

685
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: you know, it's so you know, let me just say that,

686
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: as my therapists always like to point out it's always

687
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 1: your parents fault. True. So I don't think people mean

688
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 1: to do this, but we carry with us in our

689
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: d n A are stories right, and our histories and

690
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: our origin stories. And I always felt this. You know.

691
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: The one nice thing about my family is that because

692
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: my father was very open and honest about his views

693
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,879
Speaker 1: around money, that money was a means to an end,

694
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,240
Speaker 1: that money was away for him to live a life.

695
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:23,919
Speaker 1: I think my mother was she had a little more

696
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: let me just be honest, and you know that that

697
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: we could talk about it in a way where it

698
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: wasn't loaded. But in so many families, money is a

699
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 1: loaded topic because it could be that your first generation

700
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: mother killed herself to like make everything she has, and

701
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: when she sees you in her eyes sort of taking

702
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 1: that for granted, it makes her nuts, and so maybe

703
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: she wants to control you with money. And you know,

704
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: I have a very good friend whose parents were so

705
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: miserly and she actually went the other way. So she

706
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 1: felt like she was robbed of so many experiences because

707
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: her parents were just so freaked out about money all

708
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 1: the time that she overly indulges her kids and overly

709
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: indulges them even as they are adults, and so these

710
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: patterns that are created in your life are really important

711
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 1: to try to acknowledge so that you don't necessarily react

712
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 1: to them or buy into them as you have kids

713
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,760
Speaker 1: of your own. Notice, by the way, I have no children,

714
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 1: which is why my cousin and I hope to write

715
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: the next book, which is called The Non Parents Guide

716
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: to Parenting. It's so much easier, said, I mean, I

717
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: think there's some truth there though as well, like you

718
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: joke about it, but when you're when you're not in

719
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: that situation, I think you do have the ability to

720
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 1: to kind of see things in a clearer light. One

721
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: of the things you mentioned earlier that that stood out

722
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: to me and I should have jumped on it then,

723
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: But you talked about your talking to your friends kid

724
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: who was considering was it like ninety for school? And

725
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: what was cool there is that you're able to talk

726
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: to him about it and sort of a you know,

727
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 1: a more objective way, in a way that he would

728
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 1: not have been receptive to if his parents of his dad.

729
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a nice but that's actually a good

730
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: point in that sometimes I am brought When I was

731
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: an advisor, I was brought in as this impartial third party.

732
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: I was brought in for you know, parents with their kids,

733
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: maybe their adult kids, to give the bad news, like,

734
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: you know how mom and dad have been giving you

735
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: gifts every year fifteen thousand dollars. They're not doing that anymore.

736
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: Let me explain why. And it was easier for me

737
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: to say. They couldn't even say it to their own kids.

738
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: It was so it's sort of sad. But I was

739
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 1: also brought in to help adult children talk to their parents.

740
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: You guys are too young for this, but it is

741
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: a bizarre experience to watch your parents age and to

742
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: then be in the position where you're trying to take

743
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 1: care of them. And so many people are taking care

744
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: of their aging parents and having a hard time discussing

745
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: money openly because maybe their parents are not comfortable with that,

746
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: and maybe their parents feel less than because of that.

747
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: And you know, what I always try to say is

748
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: if I can, you know, if I at that time

749
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,720
Speaker 1: or now, if someone else can be your third party

750
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 1: and help you have the conversation, that's fantastic. All you

751
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: wanna do is facilitate the conversation, and and you are

752
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: going to be feeling so much better about the the

753
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: intergenerational issues that are arising. Yeah. No, it's such a

754
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 1: good point. Sometimes you need that other perspective to come

755
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: in because yeah, I mean, even in my relationship with

756
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,280
Speaker 1: my parents, having that conversation it's and it's gotten easier

757
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: over the years, but it's never been easy. And so

758
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: sometimes having somebody else that isn't at the heart of

759
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 1: the issue, it can can help drive that conversation forward. Absolutely.

760
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: And you know, I know it's hard, Gang, I'm not

761
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:03,359
Speaker 1: saying it's easy, um, but not having the conversation. Talk

762
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: about like the you know, risk reward on that, not

763
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 1: having the conversation, you know where you got what you got,

764
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 1: it's not good. Um. And and you know, this is

765
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 1: my my last little pitch about the older people is

766
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 1: that you know, I've gotten a lot of questions in

767
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:22,240
Speaker 1: the last couple of months about estate planning and there's

768
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 1: nothing that drives me crazier than people who don't have

769
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: a will. I mean, I just I shame them into

770
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: having will. I've worked with so many people at CBS.

771
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: I shame them. Like every day I would say, did

772
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: you call this attorney? Did you call the attorney? And

773
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,479
Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting, you know, like the story about risk,

774
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 1: what's the risk that you're taking. The risk you're taking

775
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: by not doing that is that your family is going

776
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 1: to clean up a load of crap that you have

777
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: left on the front door. You're in action creates a

778
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: lot of pain, a lot of anxiety, and a lot

779
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: of work for your family. That it's unnecessary. The easiest

780
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: thing in the world is to draft a will. Not

781
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: doing it is just supremely selfish. Yeah, that's a great

782
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: final point, Jill, this has been a wonderful conversation. We

783
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 1: so appreciate you coming on and chatting with us. And yeah,

784
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: so where can people find out more about you? They

785
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 1: can go to my website, Jill on money dot com.

786
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: And you know, I do a podcast called Jill on Money.

787
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: Isn't that funny? Just you know, amazing same name. And

788
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 1: you won't be surprised that because we've been just inundated

789
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: with emails, we've moved from twice a week to every day.

790
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: Can you believe it? Man, that's your podcasting way harder

791
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: than we are. I'm exhausted. Well, you can't tell, Joe.

792
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: We really appreciate the experience, the knowledge that you've brought

793
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: to this conversation today and uh and yeah, thanks again,

794
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it

795
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: all right, Matt, that was a great conversation with Jill

796
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: on money. Jill's lessenger, and she's just got so much

797
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: great perspective, so many good stories. And I enjoyed hearing

798
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 1: about her history as an options trader. And yeah, how

799
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: cool was that hearing about the trading floor, the you know,

800
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: the pit. I had no idea that it was that physical.

801
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: It's not my big takeaway, but definitely something a little

802
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,760
Speaker 1: something I learned for sure. For sure, nice a little

803
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 1: insight into Jill's early career. Yeah, but speaking big takeaways, Matt,

804
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: what was your big takeaway from this episode? Well, man,

805
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: there's so much that I jotted down as we were

806
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: talking with her. One I kind of you know, came

807
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: back to you at the end of our conversation with her,

808
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: which was, you know, she was helping her friend's son

809
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: to understand the impact of student loan debt. And she

810
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: didn't kind of dive into how exactly she did this.

811
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: But I think we need to do whatever it takes

812
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: to kind of understand the true impact of the financial

813
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: decisions we we make, you know, and so maybe for him,

814
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: you know, she was communicating They're like, Hey, this is

815
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 1: what nine in debt looks like. Once you graduate. This

816
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: is what your monthly payment is going to be. You're

817
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: probably gonna be making x amount, So your paychecks is

818
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: gonna look like this every month. And I know that

819
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: you like nice cars, and that's out of the question

820
00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: if you've got that have and a third of your

821
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: page is gonna go towards student loans. Just whatever it

822
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 1: takes to make it real and concrete. Those normally aren't

823
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: the steps that we take when we're in the moment.

824
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: We're in the heat of the moment trying to make

825
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: these decisions, and most of the time it kind of

826
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,359
Speaker 1: comes down to, well, I like that college town better,

827
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: you know, like you think about the things on the surface.

828
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: You don't think about the long lasting impacts of the

829
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: financial decisions. Uh, And I think, you know, whatever it

830
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: takes for us to to wrap our heads around it

831
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 1: and to think in that direction could benefit us massively.

832
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, I've got actually one more, but I'm gonna

833
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: let you share years first before, just in case I

834
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 1: steal yours. I don't want to do that. Yeah, I

835
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: think just a little more due diligence, a little more

836
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: thoughtfulness on the front end can help us from plunging

837
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: into astronomical student loan debt or an ill fated purchase

838
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: that ends up plaguing us for years to come and

839
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: causes us to incur more debt. So yeah, I think

840
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: that's a great one. My my big one is when

841
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:49,919
Speaker 1: Jill said, if you can't explain it to somebody else,

842
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 1: put the brakes on when she was talking about financial

843
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 1: products and how so many people get into financial products

844
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: they don't understand, and so yeah, if you are unfamiliar

845
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: to the point that you can't explain it to one

846
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: of your friends in just like a chill conversation over

847
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:06,760
Speaker 1: a beer, then you shouldn't be doing it. No matter

848
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: what you're investing in. If you're investing in real estate

849
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: and you can't really understand the numbers, you can't understand

850
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 1: how it works, you can't you don't know whether you're

851
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,399
Speaker 1: gonna be profitable, you you shouldn't move forward. And that's

852
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,720
Speaker 1: why we recommend some of the simpler ways to invest,

853
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,240
Speaker 1: because it's easier to wrap our minds around, and so

854
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: many other investment products out there are being sold to us.

855
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,760
Speaker 1: It's not something we asked for, but somebody else has

856
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: a lot to gain by selling us that product. And

857
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 1: so yeah, we need to be able to understand it

858
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,479
Speaker 1: before we say yes, before we invest our funds, before

859
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: we sign on a dotted line, and just know that

860
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 1: there are people out there that are going to try

861
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: to sell you something that you don't want, that you

862
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 1: won't be able to understand, or that's gonna be really

863
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: really hard to understand, and it's not something that you

864
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: should be buying anyway. And a lot of times to

865
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 1: the more simple the product, the more likely we are

866
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: to participate in it. Right, Like, if we know that,

867
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: like I can go this routes and it it will be

868
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:56,919
Speaker 1: really simple and it'll actually be something that I follow

869
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: through on. Or there's this other really cool, kind of

870
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: sophisticated route and I'm not totally sure how that works,

871
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: and I'm just going to not take any action because

872
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 1: I'm kind of confused, you know. Indefinitely, Uh, that's that's

873
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 1: not the position you want to be in. And definitely

874
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 1: a route for getting burned. Yeah, exactly, And Okay, I've

875
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 1: got one bonus big takeaway there at the end, we're

876
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,919
Speaker 1: kind of talking about her counselor you know how she's

877
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 1: saying that, and all counselors say this. A lot of

878
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: them say how so many of the different issues that

879
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: we deal with have to do with our parents. Wait

880
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: a second, your dad listens to the show. Okay, don't

881
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: go too hard on him, now, this is this is

882
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: applicable to me as well as you, and yeah, all

883
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: of our listeners. But to keep in mind that we

884
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 1: often times do think the way our parents do, right.

885
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: But she also gave an example of where she knew

886
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: somebody who basically overcorrected, and so they're trying to go

887
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: as far as they could possibly from their parents. Either way,

888
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,399
Speaker 1: whichever side of the finch you've fallen, it's important, I think,

889
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: to be aware of that because we need to know

890
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 1: what it is that's shaping the way that we think

891
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: about money, whether that's negative or positive, or maybe you're

892
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: not even considering that, maybe you're just trying to find

893
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 1: something that's maybe the polar opposite of what whatever it

894
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 1: is that your parents did. It's so important, I think

895
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,839
Speaker 1: for us to keep that in mind. You know, when

896
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: it comes to how we deal with our money and

897
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 1: why it is that we have certain attitudes towards our

898
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 1: personal finances. But yeah, little bonus one wanted to mention

899
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, that was good stuff. All right, let's

900
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 1: mention the beer that we had on the show today.

901
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 1: We drank a beer called Wedge Salad. It's a triple

902
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 1: dry hopped imperial I p A by two of our

903
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: favorite breweries, other half in Green Bench, ye different parts

904
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 1: of the East Coast, down in Florida and New York York. Yeah, yeah,

905
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: what do you think about this beer? Man? Well, first

906
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: of all, I want to start with the name, which

907
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 1: is Wedge Salad, which is got to be the perfect

908
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: name for an I p A specifically because oftentimes I'll

909
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,399
Speaker 1: describe an I p A in particular New England style

910
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 1: I p A s as sort of having this blue

911
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 1: cheese kind of funkiness going on, And I could not

912
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: think of a better name for a food that makes

913
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: you think of blue cheese than a wedge salad. Right,

914
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: blue cheese crumbles a little bit of bacon. So first

915
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: of all, they kind of won me over already with that.

916
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 1: But man, this beer no so good, bright, juicy, dank,

917
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 1: though at the same time, um, but I kind of

918
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 1: keep going back to it being bright. It just tastes

919
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: so fresh. It felt like alive in my mouth. Uh,

920
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: this was a fantastic I p a a great collaboration

921
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: between two really great breweries. I'm actually just bummed that

922
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 1: I don't have my other Half hat on right now.

923
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 1: I feel like that would make the experience even better. Yeah,

924
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: you picked that up when we got to visit their

925
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 1: tap room and they had so many delicious I pas

926
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: on draft. It wasn't even funny. Yeah, it was so

927
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: good man. But yeah, how about you? What were thoughts

928
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 1: on this beer? Yeah, so this one was triple dry Hops,

929
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: and so I feel like I was completely feeling there's

930
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: the massive amount of dry hopping. I feel like it's

931
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: the difference between watching something in high def or four K.

932
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: That's pretty good, right, Yeah, that's a nice picture. But

933
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 1: the four K adds a little sexual elements even better, baby,

934
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 1: And that's that's the way these hops are. When when

935
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 1: with the triple dry Hop, I feel like my taste

936
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: buds are kind of popping off my tongue a little bit.

937
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: It's just all encompassing mouth feel. So yeah, I'm a

938
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: big fan anything the other half ever makes. I will

939
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: always give it a shot pretty much. Gonna be a

940
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,399
Speaker 1: fan of them, yeah, every single time. Yeah, and Green Bench,

941
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 1: the these two breweries did a great job making this

942
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: beer together, so yeah, I really enjoyed it. Plus the

943
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 1: labels awesome too. Got this nice green and then it's

944
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: just like this pattern of basically a wedge of iceberg

945
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: lettuce like kind of polk it for coming out of it.

946
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: So stinking good, fantastic beer. I'm glad we were able to.

947
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 1: We actually picked this one up all you and I

948
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 1: were on a on a bike ride, uh the other day,

949
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 1: so it's like a perfect culmination of our relationship in

950
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 1: this podcast as well. Beer and bikes man, and then

951
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: talking about money. That's right, all right, Matt, that's gonna

952
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 1: do it for this episode. For folks that want more

953
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 1: information and the show notes for this particular episode, you

954
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: can go to our website how to money dot com. Yeah,

955
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:34,839
Speaker 1: we'll have some links to where you can learn more

956
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: about Jill up there as well. And we want to

957
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 1: thank you for being a subscriber to to the podcast,

958
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: uh and in particular, if you enjoyed this episode, we

959
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: would love for you to head over to Apple podcast.

960
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 1: Make sure to leave us a solid review over there

961
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: that helps us to get the word out and for

962
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 1: others to find our show who aren't doing smart things

963
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 1: with their money. So Joel, that's gonna be it for

964
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: this episode, buddy. Until next time, Best Friends Out, Best

965
00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: Friends Out. M