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Speaker 1: If I had to pick one thing for being happier,

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Speaker 1: I would say anything. If you're trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: what to do with your time, energy, or money, anything

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Speaker 1: that goes to relationships is something that's likely to make

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Speaker 1: you happier, and it'll make you feel more supported, and

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Speaker 1: it will also make you feel like you're better able

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Speaker 1: to support others, and that is also a tremendous source

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Speaker 1: of happiness. One of the best ways to make yourself

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Speaker 1: happier is to make other people happier, and one of

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Speaker 1: the best ways to make other people happier is to

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Speaker 1: be happier yourself.

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Speaker 2: Hey everyone, Emily Abadi here, Welcome to rewind on Hurdle

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Speaker 2: five days of episodes from the Hurdle Vault. I cannot

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Speaker 2: even tell you how often I get requests for interviews

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Speaker 2: with some of the amazing, amazing people that I have

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Speaker 2: already had the privilege of sitting down with, and sometimes

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Speaker 2: I'm able to do a round around three. But that

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Speaker 2: is what this week is all about. It's me bringing

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Speaker 2: you some of my favorite conversations back to the top

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Speaker 2: of the feed from the last five years.

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Speaker 3: Now. I'll be honest, it's.

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Speaker 2: Easy for me to forget that there are new people

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Speaker 2: joining the Hurdle community every single week, which means that

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Speaker 2: there is a lot of content to catch up on

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Speaker 2: helping everyone on their journey to live happier, healthier, more

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Speaker 2: motivated lives. Today you will be hearing from best selling

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Speaker 2: author Gretchen Rubin. This conversation originally aired in September of

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one. Make sure you're following along with Hurdle

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Speaker 2: over on social and is at Hurdle Podcast. I am

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Speaker 2: Oliver at Emily a Body and with that, let's rewind.

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Speaker 3: Let's get to hurdling today.

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Speaker 2: I'm sitting down with Gretchen Rubin. I feel like she

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Speaker 2: needs no introduction, but you may all know of her

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Speaker 2: from her slew of blockbuster titles New York Times bestsellers.

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Speaker 2: I'm talking better than before the Happiness Project, the Four Tendencies,

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Speaker 2: also podcaster behind Happier Gretchen Rubin, how are we?

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy to be talking to you.

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Speaker 2: I hope this brings you happiness. I hope we're both

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Speaker 2: working on our happiness together.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely now, I'm really looking forward to the conversation. I

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Speaker 1: know we're interested in so many of the same things

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Speaker 1: we are.

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Speaker 2: We are and I also know that we have a

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Speaker 2: mutual interest in I'm just gonna throw this out here,

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Speaker 2: the word juj.

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Speaker 1: This I for the very first time it came out

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Speaker 1: of my mouth, and I was like, wait, what, you

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Speaker 1: know what just happened? I didn't even know how to

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Speaker 1: spell it. I'm like, how did I use it? It's

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Speaker 1: this is how culture happens, right, like how you pick

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Speaker 1: these things up without even realizing it. And then it's

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Speaker 1: like it's to like make something look a little more

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Speaker 1: attractive by making like a slight change. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: I even used it correctly in a sentence, just like

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Speaker 1: in the fourth grade spelling test.

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Speaker 2: Yes, now, I love Josh is obscenely difficult to spell.

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Speaker 3: Let it be known.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna correctly spell it for the hurdlers who may

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Speaker 2: want to write it down use it in their own sentence.

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Speaker 3: Z h U z H. Who came up with that?

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Speaker 2: Just like it sounds anyway? Also, we just need to,

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Speaker 2: you know, double click on this for a second. You

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Speaker 2: recently spoke with my dear friend Liz Plosser.

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Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, Wow, small world.

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Speaker 3: Small small world. She was recently on the show.

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Speaker 2: This is actually my former boss from when I worked

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Speaker 2: at Self magazine. It's been quite some time since since

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Speaker 2: those days, but so excited for her and her new book,

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Speaker 2: Own Your Morning and love to see when all of

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Speaker 2: the circles kind of overlap in the good work that we're.

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Speaker 3: Both trying to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so fun.

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Speaker 2: So, Gretchen Rubin, I mean again, like I said, I

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Speaker 2: feel like you need no introduction. But in order for

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Speaker 2: us to get to a lot of the topics that

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Speaker 2: we want to talk about, talking about career pivoting and

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Speaker 2: how people can take steps to be happy in this

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Speaker 2: quote unquote new version of normal, I think it's really

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Speaker 2: helpful if we do a little bit of a backstory dive.

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Speaker 2: So why don't we talk a little bit about how

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Speaker 2: you got into being the person that people think about

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Speaker 2: when they want to talk about getting happier.

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Speaker 1: Well, it was kind of a multi step process. I

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Speaker 1: started my career in law, and I was actually clerking

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Speaker 1: for Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor on the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court when I got an idea that ended up turning

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Speaker 1: out to be my first book. But at that time,

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Speaker 1: I didn't foresee myself becoming a writer. I didn't even

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Speaker 1: know that I was researching a book. I just one

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Speaker 1: of the things that's true about me, and it's been

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Speaker 1: true my whole life is I'll get very interested in

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Speaker 1: a subject, and I'll do a ton of reading and researching,

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Speaker 1: and I'll take a lot of notes. That's just sort

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Speaker 1: of my thing. So I I was out of my

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Speaker 1: lunch break one day, I was walking around the Capitol

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Speaker 1: and I thought, what am I interested in that everybody

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Speaker 1: in the world is interested. It's just like a hypothetical

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Speaker 1: question for me. And I thought, well, power, money, fame, sex.

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Speaker 1: And it was like power, money, fame sex. And I

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Speaker 1: instantly just started researching and researching and researching what seemed

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Speaker 1: to me to be like these very linked ideas. And

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Speaker 1: so this was familiar to me to kind of get

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Speaker 1: preoccupied with an idea and really go deep into it.

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Speaker 1: But this just got bigger and bigger and bigger, and

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Speaker 1: so at a certain point I thought, well, this is

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Speaker 1: the kind of thing a person would be doing if

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Speaker 1: they were going to write a book. And then I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe I could write that book. And I went to

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Speaker 1: a bookstore and got a book called something like How

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Speaker 1: to Write and Sell Your Nonfiction Book Proposal, and I

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Speaker 1: followed the Directions and Power Many Fame. Sex was indeed

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Speaker 1: my first book. A lot of people think that The

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Speaker 1: Happiness Project was my first book, and like many people,

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Speaker 1: I was an overnight sensation ten yere after ten years

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Speaker 1: of and so actually The Happiness Project was my fourth book.

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Speaker 1: So I wrote my first book that I wrote a

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Speaker 1: biography of Winston Churchill and a biography of John F. Kennedy,

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Speaker 1: and I wrote a sort of a strange art book

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Speaker 1: called Profane Waste. And then one day I thought, what

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Speaker 1: do I want from life? Anyway? I want to be happy,

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Speaker 1: but I don't spend any time thinking about how I

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Speaker 1: can be happier or if you can make yourself happier.

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Speaker 1: Then I got very preoccupied with that question, went to

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Speaker 1: the running to the library, I got a giant stack

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Speaker 1: of books, started researching happiness. And then one day it

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Speaker 1: occurred to me, well, I've just been doing this for myself,

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Speaker 1: but maybe this should be my next book, my Happiness Project,

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Speaker 1: And that's how I turn my attention into happiness and

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Speaker 1: good habits and all the things that flow from the

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Speaker 1: larger subject of happiness.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So I mean, the first question I have is did

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Speaker 2: you grow up being a super inquisitive person, because it

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Speaker 2: seems as though this is the kind of behavior that

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Speaker 2: someone would need to see modeled to kind of act

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Speaker 2: on it and feel comfortable saying, like, you know what

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to do X. Like it seems like you

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Speaker 3: were so sure in your steps.

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Speaker 1: Well, I was a huge reader. I mean I've been

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Speaker 1: a huge reader my whole life, and I majored in English,

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Speaker 1: and so I did a lot of things that a

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Speaker 1: person would do. And actually going to law school, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot you have to unlearn about writing if you're

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Speaker 1: trained as a lawyer. But there's a lot of good

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Speaker 1: things that you learn about writing and logical argument and

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Speaker 1: research from being a lawyer. I didn't have a model

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Speaker 1: for this, And it's funny you mentioned I have a podcast,

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Speaker 1: Happier with Gretchen Rubin. My co host is my sister,

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Kraft. She's five years younger than I am, and

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Speaker 1: now she's a showrunner and TV producer in Hollywood, so

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Speaker 1: she's a TV writer. But right out of college she

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Speaker 1: started writing kind of pulp fiction for teenagers. And so

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Speaker 1: even though I was five years older, she was really

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Speaker 1: a model for me of someone who was a professional writer.

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Speaker 1: That was her job was to write, and at that time,

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Speaker 1: as funny as it is for me now to think

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Speaker 1: of this, at that time I didn't know anybody who

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Speaker 1: wrote books, and so it was very helpful for me

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Speaker 1: to be like, well, Elizabeth is doing this in a

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Speaker 1: different way, but you know, same deal. I think that

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Speaker 1: was very helpful for me to imagine myself moving forward

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 3: So so special.

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Speaker 2: And then you mentioned obviously clerking and being in Washington,

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Speaker 2: DC a huge career pivot to go from that trajectory

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Speaker 2: to deciding, you know what I'm going to write. So

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Speaker 2: talk to me about perhaps some of the hesitancy, if any,

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Speaker 2: that you had during that period, and advice that you'd

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Speaker 2: give for someone else who's interested in making a career

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Speaker 2: pivot of their own.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's one of these things where you

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Speaker 1: put one foot in front of the other until looking

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Speaker 1: back it seems like much more not dramatic, but it's

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Speaker 1: more and more abrupt because at the time I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: why don't I get this book? And like what does

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Speaker 1: it take? Well, and then I'm like, oh, I guess

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Speaker 1: I would need to get an agent. How does a

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Speaker 1: person get an agent? You know it put step by step.

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Speaker 1: So I think one thing is to take it step

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Speaker 1: by step and don't expect yourself to get from A

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Speaker 1: to Z overnight. But I did have a moment where

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Speaker 1: I was starting to think about this and and I,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I thought, this, if there was ever

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Speaker 1: a time when my clerkship comes to an end, And

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Speaker 1: I had taken another really cool job at the Federal

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Speaker 1: Communications Commission, but it was also it was short, and

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Speaker 1: it was also coming to an end. It was like,

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Speaker 1: this is my opening, Like if I'm ever going to

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Speaker 1: take this risk, now is the time to try, because

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Speaker 1: I have this sort of natural opening, And it occurred

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Speaker 1: to me, you know, at this point, I would rather

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Speaker 1: fail as a writer than succeed as a lawyer. This

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Speaker 1: is my time to either succeed or fail. And one

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Speaker 1: of the things about not trying is then you don't

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Speaker 1: risk failure, but then you can't succeed. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: I want to just if I'm going to fail, I

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Speaker 1: want to just like fail and move on. I didn't

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Speaker 1: like sort of being in this liminal state where like

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Speaker 1: where I was sort of neither one thing or the other.

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Speaker 1: And so one thing I would say to people is

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Speaker 1: to like move forward, you know, take steps forward. And

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Speaker 1: a question that I often ask myself when you're sort

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Speaker 1: of like, well should I do this or not? You know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes sometimes it can feel very hard to decide even

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Speaker 1: how to think about a choice that you're facing. I

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Speaker 1: often say to myself, choose the bigger life, and only

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Speaker 1: you know what the bigger life is for you, and

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Speaker 1: different people could have it, you know, the bigger life

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Speaker 1: for someone and what else would have been a legal career, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: But when I framed the question for myself that way,

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Speaker 1: it was obvious to me that if I could make

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Speaker 1: a go of it, the bigger life was to be

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Speaker 1: the life of to have the life of a writer.

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Speaker 1: And so that's kind of clarifying because sometimes I don't

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Speaker 1: know about you, but like my pros and cons lists

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Speaker 1: are often very evenly balanced, and I'm like, I can't

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Speaker 1: reason my way out of this decision, you know. It's

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Speaker 1: like I can't do it on the on the facts

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Speaker 1: and the numbers. I have to find a way to

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Speaker 1: try to plum my plumb my depths, and that's hard.

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Speaker 2: And I mean this idea of I would rather be

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Speaker 2: happy trying something that's unknown versus un happy in you know,

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Speaker 2: the comfortable. I think that so many struggle from leaving

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Speaker 2: you know, that place of comfort to go towards something

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Speaker 2: else that they want.

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Speaker 1: Well, but here's the thing about being happy, I think

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Speaker 1: sometimes and I couldn't say this if I were a scientist,

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Speaker 1: but happiness does not always make us feel happy. And

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Speaker 1: so if you say like, I'll be happy if I

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Speaker 1: give up my legal job and try writing, well, you're

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Speaker 1: not probably going to feel very happy. You're probably going

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Speaker 1: to feel insecure and anxious and kind of like uninformed

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Speaker 1: and out of your depth. And everybody knows what's going on,

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Speaker 1: and everybody got the secret memo and what happened to

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Speaker 1: me when I felt like I was on the top

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Speaker 1: of my game and I knew what I was doing.

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Speaker 1: It might not make you feel happy, like in terms

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Speaker 1: of like, oh I feel good right now. It's more

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a kind of happiness that's more like

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Speaker 1: I'm living up to the life that I want for myself,

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Speaker 1: and that is often very painful.

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Speaker 2: But I mean as someone and I think that you

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Speaker 2: and I kind of operate in the same way. From

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Speaker 2: a bit I know about you and from listening to

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Speaker 2: you there's so much thrill in like hunting your own

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Speaker 2: potential when you're willing to take that leap, right, But.

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Speaker 1: Some people don't like thrills. I don't know that I'm

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Speaker 1: a person who's thrill seeking or adventure seeking, you know.

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Speaker 1: I just think sometimes you do something because you know

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Speaker 1: it's what you want, and you just sort of accept

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Speaker 1: that sometimes things just maybe just don't feel that good,

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Speaker 1: like as they're unfolding for a while. I think for

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Speaker 1: some people it does, and it's really exciting and fun.

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Speaker 1: I happen not to be one of those kinds of people,

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Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean it has to stop you from

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Speaker 1: going after what you want.

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Speaker 2: So for you, in those first maybe months or a

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Speaker 2: couple of years after making this pivot, what would you

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Speaker 2: say were the biggest hurdles for you?

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Speaker 1: Well, the biggest hurdles was does I didn't know what

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Speaker 1: to do? You know, I had a book, and I'm

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Speaker 1: the kind of person who's really good at like taking

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Speaker 1: a book and following directions. But it's one thing to

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Speaker 1: read like a paragraph in a book and it's like

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Speaker 1: you know, and another thing to turn that into into action.

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Speaker 1: And so part of it was just I was entering

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Speaker 1: an entirely new field, and so I had to try

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Speaker 1: to become more knowledgeable about I mean, I knew tons

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Speaker 1: and tons about literature and books and reading, but I

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Speaker 1: didn't know about the book industry. And so one of

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Speaker 1: the things I would say to anybody is really educate

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Speaker 1: yourself on Like, if you want to have a job

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Speaker 1: in that industry, you have to think about, like, well,

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Speaker 1: how does that industry work? What's everybody in that If

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Speaker 1: you were in that field, what would be the big

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Speaker 1: news that you would be talking about? How do people

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Speaker 1: think about things? Like One mistake I see a lot

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Speaker 1: of new writers making is they think what people care

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Speaker 1: about is how how intensely I want to write or

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Speaker 1: how deeply committed I am to my subject. But you see,

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Speaker 1: if you're an agent or an editor, what you really

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Speaker 1: worry about is is there an audience for this book?

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Speaker 1: Are people going to be excited to read this book?

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Speaker 1: Are you a person who can actually complete this book?

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Speaker 1: So they're thinking about different things. Both of those things

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Speaker 1: are important, but I think sometimes people don't. You know,

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Speaker 1: you have to think about, well, how do I fit

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Speaker 1: my If I want this to be my fashion, how

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Speaker 1: do I think about this in terms of doing it professionally,

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Speaker 1: because there's some things that you do that you love

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Speaker 1: to do that you wouldn't do professionally. But then sometimes

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Speaker 1: maybe you want to think about you know, it's like

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Speaker 1: if you were love to do photography and then you're like,

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Speaker 1: now I want to switch to be a wedding photographer. Well,

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Speaker 1: now you have a whole bunch of new skills that

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Speaker 1: you need, which you can get, but you start needing

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Speaker 1: to think about what's the business of being a wedding photographer,

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Speaker 1: not just like ooh, maybe i'll put another tree in

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Speaker 1: the foreground. It's like, yeah, that's still important, but there's

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Speaker 1: this other thing too.

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Speaker 3: There's this other thing too.

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Speaker 2: And then in this I'm curious to know if you

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Speaker 2: struggled with the idea of feeling like you weren't doing

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Speaker 2: enough while you were trying to figure it out.

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Speaker 1: I mean I was always trying to do more. I

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Speaker 1: was always trying to do whatever whatever I could. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I did have the feeling like is there more?

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Speaker 1: Is there more? What should I be doing? Sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: painful to be like I would do more, but I

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Speaker 1: don't know what to do, you know. I think that's

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Speaker 1: also very frustrating when you think I want to go

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Speaker 1: the extra mile, but I don't even know what direction

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Speaker 1: to go in, Which is why I think getting as

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Speaker 1: educated as you can be kind of can help you

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Speaker 1: manage that kind of anxiety, because the more you know,

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Speaker 1: the more you're like, oh, I see what I could

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Speaker 1: do that would be a good use of my time

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Speaker 1: and my energy, and I see the things that I

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Speaker 1: don't need to worry about. You know, the more the

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Speaker 1: more the more you bring to it, the more you

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Speaker 1: can get from it.

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Speaker 2: And I know in writing The Happiness Project you talked

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Speaker 2: about not necessarily at all becoming an overnight success, but

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Speaker 2: maybe it looking that way. I know, in writing The

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Speaker 2: Happiness Project you did something that a lot of authors

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Speaker 2: don't conventionally do, which is draft a lot of this

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Speaker 2: book about the whole book before really signing a book deal.

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Speaker 3: Correct, Yes, so talk to me about that process.

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Speaker 1: Well, this has happened to me more than more than once.

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Speaker 1: I will say that where I can't really dis like

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Speaker 1: when you're trying to get somebody to buy a book,

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Speaker 1: and you know, get excited about a book, you have

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Speaker 1: to explain what it is, and you have to do

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Speaker 1: the whole elevator pitch where you can really sum it

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Speaker 1: up and crisply convey it. And a lot of times

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Speaker 1: I'm sort of like, I don't think I can really

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Speaker 1: explain it until I've written it. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: I think until I write it, and I don't know

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Speaker 1: what to think. And by the time I know what

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Speaker 1: I think, the book will be written, and so I

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Speaker 1: have a hard time kind of knowing what I think

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Speaker 1: in advance. I think some people know very very well

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Speaker 1: what they think and then they're just writing what they think,

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Speaker 1: whereas a lot of times I'm sort of trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out and I'm often very surprised by what I find.

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Speaker 1: I often find things that I didn't expect to find,

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Speaker 1: or things that I thought were true weren't true. So well,

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Speaker 1: like my book Better Than Before is all about it

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Speaker 1: have it change how we can make or break our habits.

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Speaker 1: That book, I was able to explain what it would be,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't even because I could describe it, even

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Speaker 1: though I didn't know the structure and exactly what my

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Speaker 1: conclusions would be. It's like, Okay, do you want to

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Speaker 1: learn how to master your habits? Because I'm going to

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Speaker 1: figure that out. But I certainly wouldn't have been able

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Speaker 1: to say, what's the framework that I'm going to use

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Speaker 1: to describe that answer because I took me. I had

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Speaker 1: to write a whole book before I really probably had

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Speaker 1: to write two books to get the one book to

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Speaker 1: decide what I thought.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it makes sense, and especially because of

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Speaker 2: like the concept and the whole framework of the Happiness Project.

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Speaker 2: For those who may be unfamiliar, if there are any

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Speaker 2: listening to the pod, why don't you talk a little

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Speaker 2: bit about what the Happiness Project really is.

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Speaker 1: So it was a year long experiment that I did

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Speaker 1: on myself. I was my own guinea pig to try

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Speaker 1: to see, you know, is it possible to make yourself happier, healthier,

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Speaker 1: more productive, more creative? You know, what is happiness? Could

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Speaker 1: I make myself happier? And if I could make myself happier,

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Speaker 1: what would I do? And what would I try to adjust?

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Speaker 1: Or you know, what would I try to have more

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Speaker 1: of or less of? And so I figured that a

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Speaker 1: year was the kind of the right amount of time

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Speaker 1: for there to be real change, but it felt, you know, manageable,

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Speaker 1: and so I gave every month a theme related to happiness,

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Speaker 1: something that I wanted to work on, so it might

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Speaker 1: have been friendship or energy, and then I would give

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Speaker 1: myself a handful of concrete, manageable resolutions to try that

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Speaker 1: I thought help my happiness in that area. And so

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Speaker 1: it's very practical and very much like what can you

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Speaker 1: do tomorrow without spending a lot of time, energy, or money,

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Speaker 1: you know. So it's not like I'm going to go

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Speaker 1: on a three week silent meditation retreat, because I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I really have to have things that I can do

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Speaker 1: as part of my ordinary day, as part of my

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Speaker 1: ordinary routine. But it turns out that for me and

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Speaker 1: I and since the books come out, I've talked to

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Speaker 1: so many people, for most of us, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of low hanging fruit. There's plenty of things that we

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Speaker 1: can do to move the needle, to make ourselves happier

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Speaker 1: within the context of our ordinary day, even if we're very,

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Speaker 1: very busy.

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Speaker 2: And I think that that's like what makes the whole

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Speaker 2: concept so accessible, right, I mean, you approached it in

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Speaker 2: such a way that the everyday person or someone who

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Speaker 2: you know relates to you can certainly go and create

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Speaker 2: their own happiness project of sorts. And in setting you know,

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Speaker 2: the themes, so to speak, are choosing each value for

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Speaker 2: every month. How did you settle on those twelve specifics.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's a really interesting question because you know, I

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Speaker 1: picked the things where I thought I had the most

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Speaker 1: to gain in terms of happiness, but other people would

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Speaker 1: pick other things. So, for instance, I've never been a

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Speaker 1: person who's particularly inclined toward music, but for some people,

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Speaker 1: music is like an incredibly important element of their life.

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Speaker 1: And I've talked to many people where music what's a

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Speaker 1: whole theme. So they might have had, like their resolutions

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Speaker 1: might have had things like get back into practicing an instrument,

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Speaker 1: or learn a new instrument, or join a group or

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Speaker 1: a choir, or make an effort to listen to new

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Speaker 1: music consistently, or go to life concerts or you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of things you can do if you

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Speaker 1: want to bring that into your life more. For me,

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Speaker 1: it didn't. It wasn't something that for me I wanted

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Speaker 1: to work on. And I would say that that's one

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Speaker 1: of the big things that I learned that surprised me

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Speaker 1: is that there that we all want different things, Like

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Speaker 1: we have different interests and aims and values, and we

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Speaker 1: all need to get there in a different way. Like

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Speaker 1: I love to do something very consistently. If it's important

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Speaker 1: to me, I try to do it every single day.

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Speaker 1: For me, it's easier if something happens every single day.

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Speaker 1: Other people want to feel more spontaneity. They want to

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Speaker 1: have a different kind of approach and there so there

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Speaker 1: is no magic, one size fits all solution. And it's

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Speaker 1: interesting because I've talked to so many people. I created.

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Speaker 1: I've created these new journals because I realized, like a

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Speaker 1: lot of people have the aim of, like I want

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Speaker 1: to keep a journal. That's a very very common resolution

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Speaker 1: that people have. Whether they want a journal because they

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Speaker 1: want reflection, or they want a journal because they want

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Speaker 1: to like track how many miles they've run in a day,

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Speaker 1: you know, they want to keep some kind of record

436
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 1: of their life. And I realize people are very different.

437
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:32,920
Speaker 1: Some people want to don't break the chain where they

438
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 1: like check it off if they did it, and they

439
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,439
Speaker 1: write down how many miles and then they have like

440
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,240
Speaker 1: a little note where they write down all the different

441
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,919
Speaker 1: roots they did or the different hikes they did, or

442
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 1: you know like that. And then some people want to

443
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,639
Speaker 1: write one sentence every day. They don't want to keep

444
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,480
Speaker 1: a traditional journal where they're writing a couple of pages.

445
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 1: That's too much work, so they want to write just

446
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 1: one sentence. That's a great way to keep a journal.

447
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 1: There's you know, you don't have to Just because something

448
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,919
Speaker 1: doesn't work for you as a method or a tool

449
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,240
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you've failed at an aim. It just

450
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,119
Speaker 1: means like, Okay, well, is there a different way that

451
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 1: I could meet this aim? Because we have different aims

452
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,639
Speaker 1: and we also have different styles.

453
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean you're truly talking about the power

454
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 2: of habit right here. So for those that struggle to

455
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 2: create and maintain habits, they maybe get into something for

456
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 2: a week or two and then they fall off the bandwagon,

457
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,919
Speaker 2: which can totally feel certainly discouraging. What helpful tools or

458
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,800
Speaker 2: suggestions you have for them to get in the groove

459
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 2: and stay in the groove.

460
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,680
Speaker 1: Right If you're trying, if you're struggling, as many people do,

461
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,159
Speaker 1: to form a consistent habit, here's a couple things to

462
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 1: think about. I have a four tendency s framework that

463
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:45,199
Speaker 1: divides people into upholder's questioners, obligers, and rebels. And if

464
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 1: you want to take a quiz and find out what

465
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 1: you are, you can go to Gretchen Reuben dot com

466
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,119
Speaker 1: slash four tendencies and take a quick quiz there and

467
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 1: find it out and you get a little report on yourself.

468
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 3: It's very helpful. I'm being uphold there, Gretchen.

469
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:01,959
Speaker 1: Oh, Emily, I knew that ten minutes in, and I

470
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 1: love it because I'm an upholder too, so we're on

471
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 1: the same life. But so anyway, so that's the quiz

472
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 1: if you want to find that out and understand what

473
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,360
Speaker 1: it means to be an upholder. So it's all there.

474
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 1: But what I will say, just sort of generally, even

475
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 1: if you don't know about those categories, is that for many,

476
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 1: many people, they really need outer accountability to meet an

477
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 1: inner expectation. So if you said your things said to yourself,

478
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,679
Speaker 1: things like I always keep my promises to other people,

479
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:28,919
Speaker 1: but I have trouble keeping my promises myself. I have

480
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 1: trouble making time for self care. I have trouble putting

481
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 1: myself first. I always give one hundred and ten percent

482
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 1: to my clients or my customers or my family, but

483
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 1: I don't have any time for me. Then what I

484
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: would say you need, I'm saying you're an obliger in

485
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 1: my framework and you need outer accountability even to meet

486
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 1: an inner expectation. So if you want to read more,

487
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: join a book group, if you want to go for

488
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: a run every day, go with a friend who's going

489
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: to be annoyed if you don't show up. You know,

490
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: work out with a train or at a gym, raise

491
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: money for a charity. You want to create a system

492
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 1: about our accountability. For some people, that is what is necessary.

493
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 1: So one thing to think about is like, do I

494
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,439
Speaker 1: do better when I have accountability? Because some people do not.

495
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: Rebels in my framework often do not like to have accountability.

496
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 1: They don't want somebody looking over their shoulder, they don't

497
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 1: want somebody knowing what they're doing or putting things on

498
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 1: the calendar particularly. But maybe you know about yourself like,

499
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 1: oh wow, I really do do better when I'm in

500
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: some kind of framework of accounability. So that's one thing

501
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: to think about, and another thing to think about. There

502
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 1: is just hilarious research showing how much more likely we

503
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 1: are to do something if it's even the teensiest, tiniest

504
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: bit more convenient. So I've talked to people who sleep

505
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 1: in their workout clothes so they don't have to get

506
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,199
Speaker 1: dressed in the morning. There's this research showing that if

507
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: there's a salad bar and people have to use tongs

508
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 1: instead of spoons, they take less food because it's just

509
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: a little bit more effort to use tongues. So anything

510
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,919
Speaker 1: you can do to shave off, if you can use

511
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: a hook instead of a hangar, if you can pay

512
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 1: a little bit more for a gym that's right across

513
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 1: the street from your office, you know, like when everything's

514
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: back to normal, then one that's like three blocks away.

515
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: Any little bit of convenience tends to make it easier,

516
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 1: and you can also use it on the opposite. Any

517
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 1: inconvenience makes it harder to do something. So I've talked

518
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: to people who wanted to watch less TV. They weren't

519
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: giving up TV, they wanted to watch less so they

520
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: put their remote control in a really inconvenient place so

521
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,640
Speaker 1: they wouldn't just like, you know, be like, oh, I'll

522
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: just wander by and watch for five minutes because like, oh,

523
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: it's too much of a house to go get the remote,

524
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,360
Speaker 1: you know. So anything you don't want yourself to do,

525
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 1: make that inconvenient, because a lot of times just that

526
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: little bit of friction is all you need. To kind

527
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: of turn your path, and that's when habits become automatic,

528
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 1: you know, effortless. There's no decision fatigue.

529
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 3: It's just it just happens, product of our environment.

530
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 1: You know.

531
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 3: It's interesting.

532
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 2: I feel like with one of the biggest habits, so

533
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 2: to speak, or journeys that I on when I was younger,

534
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: back in college, I lost a ton of weight with

535
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 2: the help of weight watchers. And for me, it was

536
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 2: never now obviously called WW. It was never about, really,

537
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 2: to be honest with you, using the WW plan, as

538
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 2: it was about the fact that I had to show

539
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 2: up somewhere on like Tuesday nights and get on a

540
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 2: scale in front of another person, and that accountability factor

541
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 2: was the thing that helped me stay on track. Now

542
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 2: these days, I would say I have a lot more

543
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 2: intrinsic motivation. I have progressed along my journey and you know,

544
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 2: done my fair share of study reading and book reading

545
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 2: and talking and reflecting. And so it's interesting though, because

546
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 2: these different you know, archetypes, are these different types of

547
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 2: people or types of habit formation. You might be one

548
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 2: way for one thing and find that it's a little

549
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 2: bit different for something else.

550
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, it's interesting kind of along those lines. Another

551
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: distinction that I found when I was studying habits as

552
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,040
Speaker 1: substainers and moderators, And this is when you're facing a

553
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: strong temptation, not a weak temptation, a strong temptation. So like,

554
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: I have a really really strong sweet tooth. And what

555
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 1: I found is that if you're an abstainer like me,

556
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 1: it's easier to have none, it's easier to give it

557
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,719
Speaker 1: up altogether, than it is to have a little bit.

558
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: And so I could never understand, like, oh, I just

559
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: have one little square at fine Chocolate and that's all

560
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 1: I need. Who doesn't have half of brownie? That's all

561
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 1: you want? I'm like, the minute I have half, I

562
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 1: want three.

563
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 3: Yeoh same.

564
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: But moderators are different. They're the kind of people that

565
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 1: want the one square. They do better when they have

566
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 1: a little bit when they have it sometimes and they

567
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: get kind of panicky and rebellious if they're told they

568
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: can never have anything. And so, and like, I'm a

569
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 1: moderator when it comes to something like wine. I don't

570
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: really care about wine, so I can have half a

571
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: glass of wine. Whereas a friend of mine said, it's

572
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: none or four glasses. There is no in between. For me.

573
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: So's so you might be an abstainer about one kind

574
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: of temptation, but then other things you're like, eeah, it

575
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter. But when I realized that I'm an abstainer,

576
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: because all these moderators were like clearly sincerely giving me

577
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,959
Speaker 1: the advice that obviously didn't work for me, and I,

578
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: as an abstainer, was like say to think people like

579
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:06,959
Speaker 1: why don't you just give it up cold turkey? Why

580
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,239
Speaker 1: do you keep breaking the rules? Like just like just

581
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: get it off your plate. And then finally I realize

582
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 1: there's no one right way, there's no one best way.

583
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: It's just whatever is better for you, And moderators don't

584
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: understand that for an abstainer like me, abstaining is easier.

585
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: It's the easier way. And it's hard for me to

586
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: understand that for a moderator that's easier. It's kind of

587
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 1: hard to put yourself in somebody else's shoes. But once

588
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: you realize like people are different, like, oh, I'm married

589
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: to somebody who's a moderator, but I'm an abstainer, So

590
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: now it's not about convincing someone else that I'm right.

591
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: It's about how do we create a situation where we

592
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: both thrive.

593
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 3: And that's such an important question. Right.

594
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 2: My father's the kind of guy that can keep like

595
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: six different flavors of ice creams in the freezer. Well

596
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 2: I'm sure some of them like have been in there,

597
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 2: no offend, but like maybe.

598
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: For a year, like the covered with the crystals, and

599
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: you're like, how does this happen? Now?

600
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 3: Does it?

601
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say that way in my home, not at

602
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 2: all because again going back to what we were just

603
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: talking about a product of our environment.

604
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 3: Right.

605
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: But see, for a moderator, it doesn't bother them, whereas

606
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 1: like for an abstainer, it calls to you. You're like,

607
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: there's one just one bite, just two more bites, half

608
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: a bite of each flavor. You know what I mean.

609
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: It's Monday, it's my birthday, it's raining outside, I had

610
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 1: a terrible day. I've been so good. I'll be so

611
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: good starting tomorrow. Like there's a million things, But for

612
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: some people it's like I like knowing that it's there,

613
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: and if I have a little you know, I want

614
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: a little something sweet. Oh, it's go get a bite

615
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: or two. I'm like that works for you, and that's great.

616
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: But if there's somebody in the house who's like, truly

617
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: is just going to weigh on my mind in the

618
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: middle of the night, wake me up, and like I'm

619
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: going to be dragged in there by like the tractor

620
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: beam of the death Star. Like we got to figure

621
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: out how to work that out, you know, because because

622
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: we're different, and that's that's okay. We don't have to

623
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: agree on what's the best way. We just have to say, well,

624
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: this is how, this is what works for me.

625
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 2: Let's go back a little bit to your story and

626
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 2: talk about after the Happiness Project comes out, how are

627
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 2: you feeling at this point, because again we've referenced a

628
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 2: couple of times now it's seemingly being this scenario where

629
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 2: it was like this woman came out of nowhere and

630
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,239
Speaker 2: she is brilliant and oh my goodness, and you're like,

631
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 2: I've been here, but.

632
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: Oh it was great. I mean, because you're big here

633
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: as a writer is that you can't keep going, you know.

634
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: So you're like, You're like, I want to be able

635
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: to write, keep writing, And I am so lucky because

636
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: every book that I write, I say to myself many

637
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: times when I'm writing it, It'll never be this good again.

638
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: This is the best it's ever going to get. I'm

639
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: never going to be so interested in a subject. This

640
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: is never going to be so juicy, I'm so delicious.

641
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: I am never going to have this much fun again.

642
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: And then with my next book, I'm like, oh my goodness,

643
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: this is the best. Now I'm at the top, Now

644
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: I'm at the most interesting subject. So I'm really fortunate

645
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: because all my books kind of naturally have led into

646
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: the next book, and so I'm never sort of like

647
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: anxiously awaiting some kind of lightning bolt. I'm always sort

648
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: of like already starting to think about something and get

649
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: interested in something, and then I poke around and a

650
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: lot of you know, I have to figure out like

651
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,479
Speaker 1: what what what my way in is or kind of

652
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: what my what my what my perspective is on something.

653
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: But I've always but I always know sort of what

654
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: the next thing is going to be. And that is

655
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: one thing when i was growing up, my father would

656
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: always say to my sister and me, enjoy the process,

657
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: meaning if you can enjoy the process, outcomes don't matter

658
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: as much. It's not that they're not important, but it's

659
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,959
Speaker 1: like everything doesn't stand or fall on an outcome. If

660
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: you've enjoyed the process. And that's definitely true as a writer,

661
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: because I've had some books do very well. I've had

662
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: some book If a book flops, what they tell you

663
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: is that it fails to failed to find its audience.

664
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: That's the delicate way they tell you. And that thing

665
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: was a big flop. I've had books that failed to

666
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: find their audience. But because I have enjoyed the process

667
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: so much, I still have enjoyed it. You know, I'm

668
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: still like I loved that book. I loved writing that book,

669
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: and now I've got something else that I'm really really

670
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: excited about. And so and writers will often give that

671
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: advice to each other. It's like, don't hang all your

672
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: hopes on this book, like have you your next book?

673
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: And so you're excited and you're moving forward because you

674
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: don't want to get too hung up on something that's really,

675
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: in many ways outside your control, and so you want

676
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: to you just want to manage your expectations and just

677
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: keep moving forward. It's a milestone in the life of

678
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: a writer, but it's not. It's not like everything rises

679
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: or falls on like what happens like in a particular month.

680
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'd love to wrap on this concept

681
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 2: for just a second, because I actually it's super applicable

682
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: to something that I'm going through, and I know something

683
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 2: that many individuals struggle with pinning all of your perhaps

684
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 2: self proclaimed success on the outcome that is uncontrollable.

685
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 3: Like all you can do.

686
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 2: Is poor whatever you can and whatever you have into

687
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 2: something and hope for the best. Right, do everything you

688
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,479
Speaker 2: can within your power to. As my family motto is,

689
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 2: to do good. Right now, I'm dealing with an injury.

690
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 2: I'm supposed to run a marathon in two and a

691
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 2: half weeks or I think we're under that now, and

692
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 2: I'm at a place actually where I'm quite at peace

693
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 2: with whatever decision that I'm going to have to call

694
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 2: in the next you know, a week or so, because

695
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 2: I like you as you're referencing, really take appreciation for

696
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 2: the process that got me here, right and the things

697
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 2: that I gained and the opportunity costs that go hand

698
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 2: in hand with running the marathon, not basing all the

699
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: success on that final event. For individuals who struggle with

700
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 2: this mindset, perhaps you know, as many would call it

701
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 2: at times, a growth mindset, What is it that you

702
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: tell them to help them kind of get over that hurdle.

703
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: Well, one thing I'll tell them because I tell it

704
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,959
Speaker 1: to myself all the time, Like whatever your aim is,

705
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: Like your aim is to run that marathon, My aim

706
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: is like writing a book that finds its audience. There

707
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: are almost always there are many ways for that to succeed.

708
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: So you're running a marathon. Many ways this for this

709
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: marathon to succeed for you. One is that you actually

710
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: run it and you have a wonderful adventure, and that's

711
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: really exciting, and that's something that you hope will happen.

712
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: But if you've enjoyed the process, one of the ways

713
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: that it's succeeded is that it has already succeeded because

714
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: you've had all the training and all the planning that

715
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: you've been doing along the way. And another way that

716
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: it's succeeded is that it's keeping you connected to your

717
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: identity as a runner and being part of this group

718
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: of people who are marathoners. And that's like an exciting

719
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: that's an excite. I'm sure that's a very not part

720
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: an identity that I identify with, but I sound seems

721
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: very cool from the outside. It's a really you know,

722
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: it's a passionate identity. If people are really committed to that,

723
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: that's a way to succeed. And even the idea that like,

724
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:41,719
Speaker 1: you know what, I've come to a point where I

725
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: am not going to overtrain, and you've probably made that

726
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: mistake in the past, where like you didn't listen to

727
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: your body and you took two steps forward and ten

728
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: steps back. I had a friend who loved running so

729
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: much that instead of being you know, off on the

730
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: sidelines for two weeks, it was six months because she

731
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: like rebroke her toe and it was this whole, big,

732
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: huge thing. You can be Like, one way that this

733
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: succeeded is that I handled it in the way that's

734
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: right for me in the long term. And so I've

735
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: learned from my mistakes and this is going to help

736
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: me going forward. Maybe I'll write an article about it,

737
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: I'll do a podcast about it and talk about going

738
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: through this, and many many people will benefit from my

739
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: experience and like their lives will be happier and healthier

740
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: because of what I learned from going through this. That's

741
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: a huge success. So there are many ways for something

742
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: to succeed, And so if you just pick one metric,

743
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: like on this morning, Am I going to get up

744
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: and run a marathon? Yes? Or no? Well that's a

745
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: very narrow window of success. But if you think, well,

746
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: how are other ways that? What else? There are many

747
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 1: ways for this to succeed for me, many many elements

748
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 1: of it leading off in all different directions, and some

749
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: of which I might not even be able to foresee.

750
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: At this point, I have to kind of go through

751
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: it and then see what comes of it. A lot

752
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: of times very unexpected things happen.

753
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 2: You know, did you yourself lean into community a lot

754
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 2: during those quote unquote flop moments for the books?

755
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: You know, at that point I didn't really have a

756
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: community because this was a while back, and so I did.

757
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: And in fact, but that's a very astute question because

758
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: when my book it was called It's Forty Ways to

759
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: Look at JFK. It's a book that I love. I'm

760
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: very proud of that book. I loved writing and it

761
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,959
Speaker 1: didn't find its audience for reasons that I understand now

762
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: learned from that. But one of the things that it

763
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: taught me, and this is one of those things where

764
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: what do you know what's good news and what's bad news?

765
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: Because sometimes that you think is like a big failure

766
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: ends up being really important to later success or adventure.

767
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: But I was so I felt so powerless. I'm like,

768
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: there's so many people who are interested in the life

769
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,479
Speaker 1: of JFK. I truly believe that I have a book

770
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,959
Speaker 1: that they would be fascinated by, but I can't tell

771
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: them about the book. The only way I can do

772
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,959
Speaker 1: it is if somebody writes a review of it. Because

773
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: this was like before the Internet and all this kind

774
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: you know, it was just as there was internet, but

775
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: like it wasn't where it is now. And then I thought,

776
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't want to feel this way again.

777
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 1: I want to be in contact with people who are

778
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: interested in the same subjects that I am. I want

779
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: to be able to talk to people who share my

780
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: interests about what I'm excited about and let them know

781
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: what I've done if I've done something that I think

782
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 1: they would be interested in too. And that's what got

783
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: me to start a blog so far back when I

784
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: started writing that Happiness. I did that because I'm like,

785
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: I want to reach out to people now before I

786
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: even have a book, And so that's when I started

787
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 1: to build that community because but it came out of

788
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: that feeling of I don't have a community, and I

789
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: wish so much that I did that. Now going forward,

790
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: I'm really going to figure out how to create that.

791
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: And of course, and since then, I just have gonne

792
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper, because I realized

793
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: just like it's like like this vast, limitless treasure trove resource,

794
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: you know, source of enthusiasm and engagement. So so I

795
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: didn't think about it until you post the question, but

796
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: I think I guess, yes, I guess it was my

797
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 1: lack of community that got me to create a community.

798
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: How indicative of the kind of person that you are, right,

799
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 2: because for so many that feeling of loneliness often transfers

800
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 2: or transforms into great overwhelm and a little bit of

801
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 2: self loathing. So rather than lingering in that malise, so

802
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 2: to speak, you were like, Okay, I feel alone and

803
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 2: without and I'm going to do something about that.

804
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: Well, it's very true that this is something that we

805
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: talk about on the Happier podcast all the time, that

806
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 1: that action is the antidote to anxiety. And so often

807
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: you're exactly right when you feel that anxiety, when you

808
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: feel overwhelmed or like maybe like oh, oh gosh, like

809
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: I'm such a loser. It's not when you feel like

810
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: taking action or reaching out, but if you do, if

811
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,760
Speaker 1: you can get yourself to take even a small step,

812
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: it often makes you feel much less anxious because you see,

813
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 1: like I'm taking action, I have my self efficacy, like

814
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 1: we'll see where this goes. It sort of gets you moving.

815
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: And I mean I remember very clearly when I started,

816
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 1: the first time I was on my blog, I'm like, well,

817
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 1: no one will ever see this, so it doesn't matter.

818
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: You know, stakes are very low. I'm just doing this

819
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: for like an experiment, and I'm just doing like to

820
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: poke around. There's no audience, so you know who cares? Well,

821
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: little did I know. But it all happened very gradually too.

822
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: I think sometimes people are like, you know, we often

823
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: create a false choice or like it's either this or this.

824
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: It's either nowhere or it's overwhelming. I either have no

825
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: footprint or I'm going to be trolled by internet jerks morning,

826
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: moon and night for the rest of my life. It's like,

827
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: you think there's something in between that, because I really

828
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 1: don't think those are the only two paths that are

829
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: in front of you. You know, sometimes people catastrophize, So

830
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: a little bit of action often goes a long way

831
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: towards helping people with like when they're feeling anxiety, a.

832
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 3: Little bit of action goes a long way.

833
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 2: You also mentioned a buzzword before that I just want

834
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 2: to touch on quickly, and that is the word identity.

835
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,720
Speaker 2: For many you know, there are circumstances beyond our control

836
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 2: that strip away a part of our identity, whether perhaps

837
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,720
Speaker 2: you were a wife and now you're not a wife anymore,

838
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 2: or back to the example of like, I'm still a runner,

839
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 2: but I'm not current running. For individuals who have to

840
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 2: struggle with that transition, although at times it might be

841
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 2: brief and for times it might be forever, how does

842
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 2: someone cope with that loss of identity?

843
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: This is such a profound question, and I have to

844
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: admit that I was years into the research on this

845
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: until I really understood how powerful, how absolutely significant this

846
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: idea of what what are your ideas? And we all

847
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: have multiple identities, so what are your identities? And sometimes

848
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,919
Speaker 1: and I mean, and it comes up in all different

849
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: complicated ways. And I'm sure you've seen this too with

850
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: the people you've talked to, Like, sometimes people will be

851
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 1: like well, I'm not really a yoga person, you know,

852
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: I can't claim to be a yoga person. I'm like, well,

853
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: that's kind of funny because to me, you do yoga

854
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: three or four times a week and you've been doing

855
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: that for a couple of years. And they're like, oh,

856
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: but you know, I can't really say that I'm doing

857
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: I'm a big yoga person. I'm like, heck, yes you can.

858
00:39:55,200 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: Like there's no accrediting body today. You know, yeah, her actions,

859
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: that is your identity. You should own that identity and

860
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: feel good about that identity. Then, sometimes people have identities

861
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 1: that are not good for them, where they're like they

862
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: kind of say like, oh, well, I could never do

863
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: that because you know, I'm so disorganized, I can never

864
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: put anything away. I'm like, well, don't you don't have

865
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: to buy into that identity so much, because then maybe

866
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 1: you you don't lean in when you feel the urge

867
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: for organization. That's that's obviously like a very shallow kind

868
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: of example, but but sometimes people have identities that that

869
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: sort of are stumbling blocks for them or like make

870
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: them feel like it's so core to their identity that

871
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: they have certain kind of behaviors that they couldn't possibly

872
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 1: break them. Like, just for an example, I know somebody

873
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: who said, well, I really identified as a baker, like

874
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: I'm the person bringing cook cookies and cupcakes and I'm

875
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: the one, you know, bringing desserts and surprising people on

876
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: their birthdays. And she said, when I gave up sugar,

877
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: I had to give up that identity like I could

878
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: cook in other ways, but that kind of sort of

879
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: pastry baker, I had to like, oh up. And she

880
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 1: said that, like you say, even that's a was painful

881
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 1: because it meant rethinking my identity. What does it mean

882
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,439
Speaker 1: if I can't be like I'm the fun, super fun

883
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: baker now that I'm doing something that For her, she

884
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: had developed diabetes. She really really wanted to do that,

885
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: so she had to grapple with that identity. And it

886
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:16,799
Speaker 1: is hard. Sometimes we do it by choice, as in

887
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: her case, well sort of her choice, sort of not

888
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 1: her choice. Sometimes it's not your choice, like you're getting

889
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: a divorce, like you say. Sometimes it's like, oh, I

890
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: blew out my knees and so now I can't do

891
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 1: mountain climbing anymore because I just you know, so it

892
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 1: was taken. You know, it wasn't my choice to change that,

893
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 1: and I think it's something to really think about and

894
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: address and to acknowledge the pain of it, and then

895
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: to think about, well, are there other identities that might

896
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: be that might be related to that, or that might

897
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: give me the same kind of satisfaction. Maybe I can't

898
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 1: go mountain climbing anymore, but I could go walking. I

899
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: could do a gentle hike. And that taps into my

900
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: other an aspect of my identity, which is that I'd

901
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: love to be out in nature. I want to be

902
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 1: all alone. I feel like there's no one around for

903
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: miles and it's just me in the natural world. It's like, well,

904
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: you can do that in other ways other than mountain climbing.

905
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: That was one way and you can't do that, and

906
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: that is sad, But there are other ways to claim

907
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 1: that identity for yourself in a way that works for

908
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 1: you now. But it's surprised you. Like knowing myself is

909
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 1: so easy, like who am I just hang out with

910
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 1: myself all day long, like super obvious, But it's actually

911
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: quite hard to know ourselves. And sometimes we don't want

912
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 1: to admit things that we identify with or a friend

913
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: of mine wanted to cut back on drinking. She didn't

914
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: want to give up drinking, but she wanted to cut back.

915
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: And she said, it's hard for me because I feel

916
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: like I'm the fun one. I'm the one that says

917
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: let's do it. I'm the one that says, let's order

918
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 1: another rand. And I'm like, but you're still fun. You

919
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: would always be fun. You're super fun. And she said,

920
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: you know what, I am super fun. I'm like, you're

921
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: super fun at breakfast, like you didn't need you know,

922
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 1: it doesn't depend on that, you know, but she had

923
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:57,240
Speaker 1: to think that through.

924
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, I totally totally hear you.

925
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 2: I could literally talk to you in so many different

926
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,879
Speaker 2: directions for forever about everything. But you did mention something

927
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 2: in here that I feel like is going to be

928
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 2: helpful to touch on really quick, which is you were

929
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 2: talking about the other woman who was trying to give

930
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:14,399
Speaker 2: up sugar. And I know that this is something that

931
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 2: you did, So if you have talked to us a

932
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 2: little bit about what that experience was like for you

933
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 2: and maybe some takeaways that you have from it, because

934
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 2: I know that it is something that so many of

935
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 2: us think about doing pretty regularly.

936
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: I love it, I mean and I'm not saying everybody

937
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 1: would want to do it, or that everybody should do it,

938
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: or everybody would do it the way that I did it.

939
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: I'm just so I'll just talk about my experience. Yeah,

940
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: as I said, I have a very very strong sweet tooth,

941
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 1: and it was just this noise in my head all

942
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: the time. Now later, more and more one, two, three,

943
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 1: does this count? What about this? And it was just

944
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: sort of always nagging at me. And then I just decided,

945
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: you don't need to give up sugar, and I basically

946
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:58,839
Speaker 1: give up all cards. So I'm one of those I'm

947
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: one of those bonkers low carb people that you read about,

948
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,760
Speaker 1: Like I really eat no carbs except for like nuts

949
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: and vegetables. And I just loved it because then all

950
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:10,720
Speaker 1: that noise went out of my head. It was so boring,

951
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: it was so draining. It's just like it's off the table,

952
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: and now I can go, I can have ice cream

953
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: in the freezer and it doesn't bother me. And I

954
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: can sit, you know, like at a table with the

955
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: big plate of cookie fresh baked chocolate of cookies in

956
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: the middle of the table and I'm not resisting it.

957
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: I don't even notice them because I just gave up sugar.

958
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: So and so that really really works for me, and

959
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: it just kind of it just kind of it made

960
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 1: me enjoy food more because people were like, but you're

961
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: giving up so much pleasure, and I'm like, for me,

962
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: it wasn't like that.

963
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 3: For me.

964
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 1: It's like I feel more pleasure now in food. It

965
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: feels much less complicated and much less draining. And I

966
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: also would have a thing where I would get super

967
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 1: hungry because I would have kind of spikes and drops

968
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 1: and like shaking hungry. And now it's like a much

969
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:03,879
Speaker 1: more even kind of like grab agile hunger mounting, which

970
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: is just kind of in my day to day life.

971
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: I just find it much more pleasant to like have

972
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 1: that kind of pattern in my in my kind of

973
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: my rhythm of my day. But what I would say,

974
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: and again this kind of goes to standard moderator. For

975
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: me as an abstainer, it was just like okay, that's

976
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 1: off the table, and it was not. It was like okay,

977
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 1: you know, like once I just knew I wasn't having

978
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: any it was a lot easier. I will say that

979
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: for some some people don't want to do it this

980
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 1: way and that don't break the chain. Journal that I

981
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: was talking about. A lot of people use it like

982
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: that because they're like, well, maybe I don't want to

983
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 1: do it every day, but I want to do it

984
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: most days, So I want to have an easy where

985
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 1: I can just like check it off, or like I

986
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: want to track it, you know. Or sometimes when people

987
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: are contemplating a big habit chance like this, they want

988
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: to kind of monitor their behavior in advance, which is

989
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,760
Speaker 1: often very helpful to see like where am I now,

990
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: Like maybe I think I do this, but I actually

991
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 1: don't do that, Or maybe I actually eat pretty healthy

992
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: except on the weekends, and so maybe this is really

993
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,879
Speaker 1: a weekend problem. It's not like a whole week problem.

994
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 1: Maybe this is a travel problem, or maybe this is

995
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: maybe I just maybe what I want to do is

996
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,439
Speaker 1: stop eating after dinner. Like in the United States, people

997
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:11,320
Speaker 1: eat a tremendous amount of like their daily intake after dinner.

998
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 1: And so maybe you're like, well, look now that I

999
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 1: like I'm tracking my habits, I'm seeing that's a pattern.

1000
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:19,839
Speaker 1: And so I think sometimes when people want to like

1001
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: tackle really big behavior change, thinking about it kind of

1002
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: like day to day what do I do and what

1003
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: do I want to do? Can be a really really

1004
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: helpful strategy for people who who find it find it

1005
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: easy to do. Like some people they're like, ah, no,

1006
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: like throw that thing away. I do not want to

1007
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:41,720
Speaker 1: use that. It's like, Okay, that's not gonna work for you. Fine,

1008
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: Like don't try to force it. Find a different tool.

1009
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: But but I've just found over time, this streak approach

1010
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: and the and the kind of reflecting on what I

1011
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: do approach really for many people gives them a lot

1012
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: of insight and a lot of motivation.

1013
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 2: Right right, And I mean in that you're also saying

1014
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 2: that it's important to be honest with yourself and ask

1015
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 2: yourself tough questions.

1016
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,479
Speaker 1: Yes, oh yeah, oh you speak I think you yes,

1017
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: yes people, yes, yes, Well this is why it's really

1018
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: important to do it day to day and and and

1019
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 1: researchers talk about this problem all the time. They'll do

1020
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: research like yeah, what do you what did where were

1021
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 1: you eating a month ago? And it's like people are

1022
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: just making that up. We have no idea, and we're

1023
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 1: wildly more likely to we tip the scales in our

1024
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: in our own favor, Like you know, you remember the

1025
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 1: things that you're oh, I remember that you know that

1026
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: extremely healthy meal that I cooked after I went to

1027
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,359
Speaker 1: the farmer's market, and then you're like, those other things

1028
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 1: kind of slide out of my mind. I don't I

1029
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: don't remember that that that particular uh, you know, trip

1030
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: to the to the strip mall. Yes, So absolutely honesty.

1031
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: If you want, if you want to, if you want

1032
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: to improve things or know yourself better, we have to

1033
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: be honest. And it's hard. It's often very hard.

1034
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 3: It's often very hard.

1035
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,399
Speaker 2: I mean beyond talking to yourself about what you're eating

1036
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 2: and perhaps not being completely candid about writing all of

1037
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 2: those things down. The idea of asking tough questions is

1038
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 2: actually really important, right, not just with yourself but with

1039
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 2: other people in your life.

1040
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 3: So why don't we chat a little bit about that.

1041
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,399
Speaker 2: I know that this is a category that you've done

1042
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 2: a little bit of work in as well.

1043
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 1: Yes, And so we were talking earlier about how it's

1044
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 1: kind of hard to know ourselves and one way you

1045
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 1: can kind of get an insight into yourself is by

1046
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: asking yourself a question that maybe kind of gives you

1047
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: a perspective or or lends into yourself that you that

1048
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 1: you might not have noticed before. And again, back to

1049
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: these journals, I even know yourself better journal, because a

1050
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: lot of people do find it really helpful to have

1051
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: these sort of reflections to kind of guide their thinking

1052
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 1: because it's hard to just look in the mirror and

1053
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 1: see what's there clearly. It's like if somebody, but if

1054
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: somebody asks you, like a really good question. So here's

1055
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: a funny thing. A lot of adults don't know what

1056
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: to do for fun, Like they know what's fun for

1057
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: the whole family, they you know, maybe right, and then

1058
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 1: they know work and then kind of like the chores.

1059
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: But if you're like, what would you do just for fun?

1060
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 1: If you had a whole day free, what would you

1061
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: do for fun? Or if you had a hobby, what

1062
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 1: would your hobby be? Or you know, and so it's like,

1063
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: what do you do for fun? Here's a great question

1064
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: to ask yourself. What did you do for fun when

1065
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 1: you were ten years old? Emily, what did you do

1066
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:23,839
Speaker 1: for fun when you were ten years old?

1067
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 2: I mean I played like zena warrior princess in the

1068
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 2: backyard with my best friend.

1069
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: So the question is, if that's what you did for fun,

1070
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:35,760
Speaker 1: what could you do as an adult that would tap

1071
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 1: into that pleasure? Because what you did, so what I

1072
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 1: did for fun. When I was ten years old is

1073
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 1: I would copy out my favorite quotations from books that

1074
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: I was reading into these beautiful books, and then I

1075
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: would illustrate them with magazine pictures. And nowadays, as an adult,

1076
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 1: I have I have a Moment of Happiness newsletter where

1077
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: like five days a week I send out like a

1078
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 1: beautiful quotation about happiness serve human nature. And it's so

1079
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: fun for me, and it's just as I was a

1080
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,760
Speaker 1: ten year old, Like sitting on the floor and writing

1081
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: it out with a felt tip marker in a blank

1082
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 1: book is exactly how I feel now. And I'm like

1083
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 1: reading a book and typing it into my big document

1084
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: of all my favorite quotations, and I'm like, it's even

1085
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 1: better because I get to show it to other people.

1086
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: It's not just my book that I can maybe show

1087
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: to a friend. It's like I can send this to

1088
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 1: as many people who love quotations as much as I do.

1089
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 1: But it's fun for me in exactly the same way,

1090
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: but it's adapted to my adult situation and so okay,

1091
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,399
Speaker 1: playing like what might that be? Maybe you're gonna start

1092
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:40,720
Speaker 1: a monthly charade thing. Maybe you're gonna do immersive theater.

1093
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 1: Maybe you're gonna I mean, where could that lead? But

1094
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 1: it's probably something that you would find fun.

1095
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I mean I hear where you're going with this.

1096
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily think I need to like pick up

1097
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 2: a fake sword and like go to for Green Park and.

1098
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 1: Like Saudia Williamsberg, I'm putting on my a friend and

1099
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna knee in some dough. We're gonna make a candle.

1100
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 3: Clause for you.

1101
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 2: I will say, you and I obviously have many things

1102
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 2: in common, and when I was younger, I did a

1103
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 2: similar thing. So I think that that's like kind of

1104
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 2: these different ways that we engage with our respective communities.

1105
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I do think that through asking these tough questions.

1106
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 2: We just had a thirty day challenge with a bunch

1107
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 2: of the hurdlers and it became something that was a

1108
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:24,359
Speaker 2: really beautiful opportunity not only for each of the individuals

1109
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 2: to do some like self inquisition work, but then also

1110
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 2: to come together and have these conversations because of that

1111
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:33,439
Speaker 2: connectivity and these things that bring us together. Oftentimes, when

1112
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,719
Speaker 2: you are someone that's willing to do this work, that's

1113
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 2: willing to do this inquisition, finding like minded people can

1114
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 2: be a way for us to continue on with that

1115
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 2: and do more of it.

1116
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: Well a it's it's often accountability be we can all

1117
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: learn from each other and a lot of people you're like, wow,

1118
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 1: I never thought about sleeping in my work at close.

1119
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:51,320
Speaker 1: That's amazing. I'm going to do that, you know, or

1120
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 1: whatever you get, you get ideas and then and it

1121
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 1: goes to that identity I'm the kind of person who

1122
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: does that. I'm around other people. And one of the

1123
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: things that I found was absolutely striking in my for

1124
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,240
Speaker 1: better than before when I was doing all the habit research.

1125
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,879
Speaker 1: It gives all the twenty one strategies that you can

1126
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: use to make or break your habits. And one of

1127
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 1: the strategies, and a very universal strategies, is the strategy

1128
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: of other people. And it is really striking how much

1129
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 1: we pick up habits from other people, good habits. If

1130
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: one spouse gives up smoking, the other one's much more

1131
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,280
Speaker 1: likely to give up smoking, but also to the bad

1132
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 1: So we're constantly trading habits back and forth. So if

1133
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 1: you put yourself in a cohort like this thirty day

1134
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 1: challenge and you're like, these are my people, I'm one

1135
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,879
Speaker 1: of these folks, we're all working on this together. That's

1136
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 1: going to kind of keep you focused and just that

1137
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 1: being around other people who were doing that, even without

1138
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:46,720
Speaker 1: you consciously realizing it, that's going to start to seep

1139
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 1: in and to shape it and to make it easier

1140
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 1: to do that. If there's a habit you want, you

1141
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: want to put yourself around people who have that habit,

1142
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 1: there's a habit you don't want, you want to pull

1143
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 1: back from people who do have that habit because it's

1144
00:52:58,160 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 1: like somebody was saying to me, I want to be

1145
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:01,839
Speaker 1: I want to learn to be much more frugal, but

1146
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,320
Speaker 1: my friends are definitely the kind that, like, you know,

1147
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 1: they're ordering appetizers there or you know, and he says,

1148
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to hold to my hand. They're

1149
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,399
Speaker 1: not pressuring me to spend money. It's not that, it's

1150
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: just that I don't. It's harder for me to keep

1151
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 1: my habit in this context. And it's like, yeah, that's

1152
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 1: human nature. So yeah, And so putting yourself in a

1153
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: like in a group of people who are really striving

1154
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 1: for the same thing that you're striving for is enormously

1155
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: beneficial in a multitude of ways, some of which you're

1156
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 1: probably not even consciously aware of totally.

1157
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 2: And then, on the note of tough questions, after a while,

1158
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 2: maybe someone who starts to ask themselves some of them

1159
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 2: can get more comfortable continuing to answer them. For someone

1160
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 2: who's struggling to like open themselves up to that level

1161
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 2: of inquisition, is there perhaps like a best practice way

1162
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 2: to ease into that?

1163
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: Well, I think you know, there are questions that you

1164
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 1: can ask yourself that that you can sort of go through.

1165
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: So one question might be what am I waiting for?

1166
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,360
Speaker 1: So because because a lot of times people are will think, well,

1167
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: I'll start it in the new year, or it's going

1168
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 1: to be like after after the summer's over and everything

1169
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: calms down, like there's always you know, tomorrow, it's always

1170
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 1: easier than today. And so sometimes it's like, if I'm

1171
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,839
Speaker 1: just waiting for things to get easier, you know what,

1172
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 1: it's probably like now now is always a really good time.

1173
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 1: So if what am I waiting for? Am I kind

1174
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 1: of putting myself on pause for sort of no good reason,

1175
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: but just sort of out of anxiety. One question that

1176
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people say helps them a lot is

1177
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 1: what would I do if I weren't scared. So if

1178
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 1: I if I could just imagine like another person doing it,

1179
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 1: what would you know? And that can often be kind

1180
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 1: of an interesting way to get at this. What would

1181
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 1: I do if I weren't scared? Is to say, what

1182
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: would I tell a friend? Right, because you're not scared

1183
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 1: for your friend, because your friend's the one that's got

1184
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:52,840
Speaker 1: to do it. So what advice would you give to

1185
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 1: a friend? Yeah, because you don't feel that fear in

1186
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 1: relation to someone else, and often you you you trust

1187
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:02,320
Speaker 1: in your friend, you believe in your friend, and you

1188
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 1: know you have optimism for your friend. What would you

1189
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 1: say to your friend? Well, then you know, tell repeated

1190
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: back to.

1191
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 2: Yourself super helpful, super helpful, and some good visualization like

1192
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,359
Speaker 2: in that as well. Obviously, as we can tell from

1193
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 2: the last fifty plus minutes we've spent together that you

1194
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 2: are someone that a lot of people look to for

1195
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 2: advice and for guidance. You've got almost something like two

1196
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 2: hundred thousand followers on Instagram and so many beyond that.

1197
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 3: That's who they see when they look at you. But

1198
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 3: what is it that you see when you look in

1199
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 3: the mirror, Gretchen.

1200
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 1: Well, you know, we try to be very honest. So

1201
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: I hope that it's very consistent. But you know, but

1202
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 1: that is a great question. I'm constantly thinking, like, what

1203
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 1: are my blind spots? What am I telling myself is

1204
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 1: true that isn't true? What do I think are my

1205
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 1: limitations that are not my limitations? I think I think

1206
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 1: it's the great I think you put your finger on

1207
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: one of the great questions of our lives, which is

1208
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:06,399
Speaker 1: you know, who am I? Actually one of the things

1209
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: I realized recently, like right now, I'm working on a

1210
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:10,839
Speaker 1: book about the five senses and how we can tap

1211
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 1: into the five senses to really bring ourselves a sense

1212
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 1: of vitality. And that came from me really looking at

1213
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 1: myself and thinking, you know, I am really I'm absent minded,

1214
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 1: I'm absent bodied. I walk around kind of in a fog.

1215
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,640
Speaker 1: I don't tap into my senses as much as I should.

1216
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 1: I think I'm leaving a lot of opportunity for just

1217
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 1: like appreciating the moment in the world around me. And

1218
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 1: it was really acknowledging that limitation of myself that got

1219
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:38,359
Speaker 1: me very, very excited about trying to systematically address that.

1220
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: So I think it was acknowledging something about myself that

1221
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:45,240
Speaker 1: I wish were not true but is true.

1222
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 2: It's so interesting to hear you talk about the premise

1223
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 2: for this upcoming project. I know the premise for the

1224
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 2: Happiness Project was like the same kind of level of

1225
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,359
Speaker 2: like self inquisition and asking yourself if there was more that.

1226
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 3: You could do there?

1227
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 1: Do you?

1228
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 2: He's the theme ever take a step back and like,

1229
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 2: are you ever your own high woman?

1230
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 3: Or I sort of.

1231
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 1: Love this Benjamin Franklin kind of constant guinea pig, constant testing.

1232
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: I find it really really fun, Like give me a

1233
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 1: good try this at home. I love that. So I

1234
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 1: do not find it exhausting and overwhelming. Now do other

1235
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 1: people around me feel like they're innocent bystanders? Yes. My

1236
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 1: sister Listen, who's the co host of Happier with Gretchen Rubind,

1237
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 1: she calls me a happiness bully too, because I'm not

1238
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 1: way to myself. But also, if you're close to me

1239
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 1: and I think that there's a way for you to

1240
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: be happier, like I can get kind of like insistent

1241
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 1: on that, but it comes from a place of love.

1242
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 2: So yeah, does anyone around you ever just tell you

1243
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 2: how magnificent you are so that you can hear it

1244
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 2: from somebody else.

1245
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 1: No, I wish they would.

1246
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 2: No, all right, I'm here to tell you today, Gretcha,

1247
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 2: you're a pretty awesome, stellar human.

1248
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, and so are you?

1249
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 3: Of course. Well, I would be remiss if I did.

1250
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 2: Before I let you go here, talk a little bit

1251
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 2: about where we are as a society after the last year.

1252
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 2: So many people after the last eighteen months in this pandemic,

1253
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 2: going through some tough spots and dealing with everything from

1254
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 2: negative self talk to anxieties of just simply walking down

1255
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 2: the streets. So when it comes to us moving forward

1256
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 2: with a little bit of optimism and trying to find

1257
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 2: our happy as we progress, what would you say are

1258
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 2: some of the steps that people can take in that

1259
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 2: finding they're happy in this new quote unquote normal.

1260
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 1: Well, there's been a huge disruption, there's so much uncertainty,

1261
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 1: there's so much hardship and suffering, certainly, but I would

1262
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 1: say now more than ever, sort of the advice about happiness,

1263
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 1: which is like ancient blossers and contemporary scientists agree on this,

1264
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: like if you had to pick one aspect of your life,

1265
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 1: pick relationships. To be happy, we need to have deep

1266
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 1: intimate bonds we need to have enduring relationships. We need

1267
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: to be able to confide, we need to be able

1268
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 1: to get support and allso so give support. We need

1269
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 1: to be able to We need, you know, we need

1270
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 1: to feel like someone has our back. And and this

1271
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 1: is part of what has been so distressing about this

1272
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: time is that so many, so many of our usual

1273
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 1: ways of connecting have been disrupted or altered and that's

1274
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 1: been really hard for people to manage. But so thinking about,

1275
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 1: you know, if you're thinking about, oh gosh, should I

1276
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 1: get on another zoom call with my college roommate's like

1277
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: I'm so tired of that, or like should I, you know,

1278
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 1: own next year my college reunion's coming up, Like should

1279
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 1: I deal with the time and the energy to do that?

1280
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 1: Like anything like should I, oh gosh, my friend keeps

1281
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 1: canceling on me for good reason, but should we just

1282
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: keep rescheduling that hike because it's such a nuisance. Anything

1283
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:44,280
Speaker 1: that deepens our relationships or broadens our relationships, anything where

1284
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: we're we are giving into our community when we feel

1285
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 1: like we're making things better or we're helping or we're teaching,

1286
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 1: anything that goes to those bonds with other people. If

1287
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 1: I had to pick one thing for being happier, I

1288
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 1: would say anything. If you're trying to figure out what

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00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 1: to do with your time, energy, or money. Anything that

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01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 1: goes to relationships is something that's likely to make you happier,

1291
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:06,919
Speaker 1: and it'll make you feel more supported, and it will

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01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 1: also make you feel like you're better able to support others,

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01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 1: and that is also a tremendous source of happiness. One

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01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 1: of the best ways to make yourself happier is to

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01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 1: make other people happier. And one of the best ways

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01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 1: to make other people happier is to be happier yourself.

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01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 3: I love that. I love that, Gretchen.

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01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 2: What is one of the things that makes you happy

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01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 2: right now?

1300
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 1: Reading? Reading? It's my playground and my cubicle. I love reading,

1301
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 1: and so that is something now and forever reading well.

1302
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 3: I mean this beckons the question what are you reading

1303
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 3: right now?

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01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 1: I am reading The Yellow Room by Sarah Broom, which

1305
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 1: is more And.

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01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 2: If you had to recommend a book for the next

1307
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 2: Hurdle book Club, what should we be reading, Gretchen?

1308
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: Ooh, fiction non fiction.

1309
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 2: We're usually leaning into like a nonfiction, like we're talking

1310
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 2: personal development, self help, that kind of stuff, not long

1311
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 2: ago you read Grit, so it's like a hint of

1312
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 2: where we've been.

1313
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 3: The power of habit.

1314
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good book. I'm trying to think of

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01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: a great five census book. Oh, this is Your Brain

1316
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 1: on Music by Daniel Levitton. It's so exciting. You read

1317
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 1: all about your brain and how you listen to music,

1318
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: and there's a lot in there about how you can

1319
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 1: use music to pump yourself up and calm yourself down,

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01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 1: and it gives you an appreciation for your body. And

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01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 1: so I think for people who are interested in kind

1322
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 1: of self development and self understanding, it's it's really interesting

1323
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 1: to it just it just fills you with awe about

1324
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 1: the human body and what our bodies can do without

1325
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 1: us even noticing the sophistication. It's just it's it's really

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01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 1: it's a transcendent thing to think about. And it's also

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01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:48,920
Speaker 1: like super interesting and practical.

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01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 2: If you were to recommend to the hurdlars who have

1329
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:56,959
Speaker 2: never read any of your titles before a good place

1330
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 2: to start, would you tell them to start with the

1331
01:01:58,280 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 2: Happiness Project.

1332
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:03,080
Speaker 1: Yes, unless they're very focused on changing their habits, in

1333
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 1: which case I would say better than before. Specifically about habit, change.

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01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 1: I think the happiest project is more fun read. It's

1335
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 1: more on the memoir side, and it's all about happiness,

1336
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 1: which is great. But if you're like, I don't care

1337
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 1: about this Gretchen Ruben and how she got happier, I

1338
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:19,520
Speaker 1: want to know, like how to get myself to go

1339
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 1: to bed at ten thirty every night, I'm like, well,

1340
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 1: I better than before. We'll like goes right to the

1341
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:25,919
Speaker 1: heart of that. So either one of those probably would

1342
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: be good for the hurdlers.

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01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 2: Perfect well, Gretchen, the way that I close the podcast

1344
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:33,920
Speaker 2: every time, right now, you have an opportunity to offer

1345
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 2: yourself one piece of advice. Going through a big hurdle moment,

1346
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 2: let's say the moment when you decided that you were

1347
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 2: gonna stop clerking and start writing, you have an opportunity

1348
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 2: to offer yourself back then a piece of advice right now,

1349
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 2: looking back on it, what do you tell yourself?

1350
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 1: I would tell myself something that I've learned now but

1351
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 1: I did not know then, which is, if you're not failing,

1352
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 1: you're not trying hard enough. And so go into this

1353
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 1: thinking it's okay for me to fail, because if I fail,

1354
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:04,440
Speaker 1: I will know that I am trying hard, and if

1355
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:07,439
Speaker 1: there is no failure, I need to figure out more

1356
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 1: things to try so I get my failures in.

1357
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 3: I love it, Gretchen.

1358
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 2: I am so ecstatic just at the opportunity that we

1359
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 2: had here to sit down together. I know that there's

1360
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 2: so many takeaways from this time, and I'm so grateful

1361
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 2: for you and the work that.

1362
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 3: You do, and I know that the community is as

1363
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 3: well well.

1364
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:27,560
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I so enjoyed our conversation. I

1365
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 1: feel like we could talk all day, so I really

1366
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: appreciate it.

1367
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 2: I wish that we could. How do how do the

1368
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 2: hurdlers keep up with you? How do they follow along

1369
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 2: with you? What can they get in on? Give us

1370
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 2: all the details.

1371
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, So if you want to go to sort of

1372
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 1: the hub of all my things, you can go to

1373
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 1: Gretchenreuben dot com and you can read about my books

1374
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:47,080
Speaker 1: and there's all kinds of free resources. If you are

1375
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:49,919
Speaker 1: a podcast listener, which clearly you are, you can listen

1376
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 1: to Happier with Gretchen Ruben. That's a weekly podcast that

1377
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 1: I do with my cost and my sister Elizabeth, and

1378
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:59,040
Speaker 1: it's all about it, like concrete, manageable ways to be happier, healthier,

1379
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 1: more productive, and more creative. I'm on social media everywhere

1380
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:05,960
Speaker 1: you would look for Gretchen Rubin and if you're interested

1381
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 1: in the journals, you go to the Happiness Project and

1382
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:10,720
Speaker 1: you can find it there.

1383
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 3: Beautiful.

1384
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 2: I'm over at Emily Body and at Hurdle Podcast Another

1385
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 2: Hurdle conquered.

1386
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 3: Catch you guys next time.