WEBVTT - Days of Struggle 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:14.560 Good morning, keeps, and welcome to Okay f Daily with 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:20.640 Meet your Girl. Danielle Moody recording from the Home Bunker, Folks. 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:26.200 I am struggling this week, and when I have these 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:31.720 days of struggle, I feel it necessary to share because 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:34.400 I think that too many of us, when we are 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:40.000 feeling incredibly overwhelmed or hopeless, keep that information to ourselves. 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:43.600 When I woke up at the beginning of this week 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:55.320 to see that Italy had elected a fascist to lead 0:00:55.520 --> 0:01:02.160 their country, Georgia Maloney, who who had become and was 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.680 lifted up as a darling of the American far right, 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:14.039 being you know, celebrated by Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, Victor 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:19.319 orbon In, Hungary the Dictator and Hungry Putin and others. 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:26.720 And she has made no qualms about her agenda and 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:29.440 about her allegiance. This is somebody that at the age 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:36.039 of fifteen fifteen years old, began their own fascist nationalist 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:42.000 organization that then was disbanded because of Italy's history with 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:46.679 fascism and authoritarianism, it was illegal to create those types 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:52.000 of groups. Well, change a few logos and you call 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:56.440 yourself a conservative, but continue with the same ideology and 0:01:56.520 --> 0:02:01.080 teachings of Mussolini that she has held up as an 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:06.120 incredible statesman. She is now going to be in charge 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:11.560 of the third largest economy in Europe. Italy, not unlike 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:16.040 the United States, has experienced economic devastation, a lot of 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.720 it prior to the pandemic, but certainly exacerbated by it. 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.800 What has also happened because Italy has a coalition government, 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:28.160 you know, you had votes that were split, and as 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:31.639 we will have conversation with doctor Jonathan Metzo, there was 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:36.720 a miscalculation by the center left parties that if you 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:42.040 hold up this extreme personality and character, that that in 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:44.120 and of itself will be enough to drive people to 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:48.960 the polls. Well, guess what, it didn't, and many many 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:52.480 people in Italy stayed the fuck home and it was 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:59.040 a historically low voter turnout. So now they have a 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:06.120 fascist in arch, somebody who is believes in cleansing the 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:11.320 country when it comes to the migrant population, that wants 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:20.040 to have strict borders for particularly for Northern Africans, that is, 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:25.600 believes in the quote unquote traditional family, and wants to 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:30.160 rescind Italy's same sex marriage law that was passed in 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:36.360 roughly around twenty sixteen. Any of this sound familiar, and 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:41.640 after her win, all of conservative social media lit up 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:48.160 with congratulations and applause, and I am left absolutely fucking 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:57.520 dumbstruck because one when Biden referred to these fucking basket 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:01.720 of deplorables as semi fascists, they got all up in arms, 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.160 and clearly the only thing that they got up in 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:06.600 arms about was the fact that they were being referred 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:11.119 to as semi fascists as opposed to one hundred percent fascists, 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:14.880 because I don't know in what other fucking time in 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:20.320 America's history do you have American politicians celebrating the win 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:25.200 of somebody that is associated with celebrates lifts up is 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:31.240 in communication with the fucking granddaughters of Mussolini, a man 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:35.599 that was murdered, captured, murdered by his own people, hung 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:38.960 upside down by his fucking feet in the town square 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:47.280 in Milan. Rachel Maddow did a kick ass opening on 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:51.800 Monday Night where she gave the history lesson that you 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:56.680 know you probably didn't get in school because we gloss 0:04:56.720 --> 0:05:00.680 over every fucking thing. Hence why we continue to repeat 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:03.960 the awful aspects of our history, Because we don't fucking 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:08.640 teach it. So here we are arriving at a time 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:18.280 when world powers are reorienting themselves around authoritarianism and fascism. 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.479 This is not hyperbolic. Look at the fucking maps. Look 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:26.719 at who's running and winning in both this country and abroad. 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:30.640 Jonathan and I will get into a conversation that frankly 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:35.320 is making my stomach turn because it's thinking about where 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:39.760 would the world have been without the bombing of Pearl 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:44.039 Harbor that forced the United States into World War Two? 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:49.840 After six million Jewish people and others were murdered in 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.880 camps that we knew about but didn't do dick about 0:05:54.040 --> 0:06:01.719 until we were bombed. What happens to the world when 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:09.479 there isn't America to come in and actually advocate for 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:14.520 and fight for democracy. Now we know that America ain't 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:18.080 fucking perfect that we know to be one hundred percent try. 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:20.960 We also know that we only enter into wars and 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:26.640 supply you know, arms when it suits us economically. We 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:32.040 absolutely know that it doesn't diminish the fact that without 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:35.440 the United States entering into World War two, the number 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:40.040 of six million Jews would have exceeded exponentially and just 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:49.240 spread right around Europe, around the world. So when you 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:53.839 have a realigning of power that is happening right now, 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.039 and it is going into the hands of those that 0:06:56.160 --> 0:07:01.039 believe that white supremacy is the way by lens is 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:07.040 the only fucking solution. An oppression is the mode of operation. 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:14.720 What do you do? I can't express to you all 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:17.680 enough that we are being called up in a moment 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:23.280 that is going to define this country and the world 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:29.559 for generations to come. We're so obsessed with sci fi 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:32.800 and fantasy like the Hunger Games and The Handmaid's Tail, 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.400 and the reality is all of those things have been 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:41.800 foreshadowing for this fucking moment. If people have ever asked themselves, 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:46.360 who would I have been in World War Two? Who 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:51.760 would I have been during the fight to abolish slavery? 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:55.240 Who would I have been during the Civil rights movement? 0:07:55.680 --> 0:08:02.239 This is that time. Are you willing to answer that call? 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.120 Are you willing to mobilize as many fucking people as 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:07.400 possible to get to the polls? Are you willing to 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.200 donate if you have the ability to give money as 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:14.200 much as you possibly can. Are you willing to run 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:17.239 for office yourself, whether that be from the school board 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:22.440 level to the fucking Mosquito board to city council and onward. 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:26.480 Now is the time for good people not to sit 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:29.840 by and allow bad things to happen, because we think 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:33.679 that by sticking our next out or keeping them in 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:38.760 rather that we are going to isolate ourselves from bad 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:42.040 things happening to us. It is already happening and it 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:47.840 is going to get worse. Coming up next, my conversation 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:52.480 with our friend, our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzo. 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:03.520 The Damage Report with John Idarola is one of the 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.560 most popular shows on the TYT Network that serves as 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:09.720 your daily breakdown of the genuine threats and challenges facing 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.800 our country and world. These days, we're confronted with an 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:16.960 overwhelming sea of shocking, confounding, and devastating news stories. The 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:19.960 Damage Report is your life raft, helping you navigate the 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:24.960 day's news and understand the damage caused by the corrupt establishment, politicians, corporations, 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:28.880 and everything in between. 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Thankfully, 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:02.840 there's The Bituation Room podcast hosted by comedian and commentator 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:06.800 Francesca free Erantini, for a lighter take on the heavy stuff. 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:10.679 Each week, The Bituation Room brings you progressive comedians, experts, 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:12.840 and activists to break down the issues in a way 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:15.559 that won't just leave you crying under a weighted blanket. 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:19.320 Get the Bituation Room on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:27.240 streaming on YouTube and Twitch. Folks who know that when 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:31.679 it is our weekly conversation with our in house doctor, 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:36.439 doctor Jonathan Metal day, I don't know what day it is, folks, 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:40.640 because I feel like we live inside of a weird 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.880 uh continuum that Jeff, I feel like I'm on loop. 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:47.720 You know what came out is coming out anew Jonathan 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:52.880 quantum leap. I would like to quantum leap the fuck 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:55.080 out of the time that we are in right now. 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:59.240 But um, I want to talk to you about what 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:03.920 has happening globally and get your thoughts on how it 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:07.280 ties back to dying of whiteness, how it ties back 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:11.800 to what we've been experiencing in the United States since 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:18.880 roughly twenty fifteen. So this week in Italy they had 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:28.920 elections and have elected Georgia Maloney, who is essentially the 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:33.040 second coming of Mussolini. When she was fifteen years old, 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:39.400 she joined a fascist regime that then had to be 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:46.480 put down because in Italy at the time, creating fascist 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:51.960 organizations were illegal, right, because of what the country went 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:59.760 through for decades plus under Mussolini. And she has been 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:07.880 activated in nationalist groups, in fascist groups, and has become 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:11.560 a darling of the far right in the United States. 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:16.200 She has spoken at Seapack, she has spoken at several events. 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:20.840 And you would think a country like Italy that went 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:28.679 through so very much under fascist dictators that we wouldn't 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:32.360 be in this place where we are seeing a reorientation 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:39.960 of the World War two kind of access that was disrupted, 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:43.679 you know, because of World War Two, because of America 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:47.040 coming in, because of other nations in Europe coming in 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:52.280 and fighting back against Hitler. And you know, we're watching. 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:54.680 I watched all you know, for the last day or 0:12:54.679 --> 0:13:01.800 so Republicans congratulate this win, celebrate the win of this 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:07.120 leader that is a fascist. I've watched historians talk about her. 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:13.320 I've watched people compare the ideology, the even the logo right. 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:20.160 So I want to get your thoughts on how we 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:24.080 get to this place where Italy has had the lowest 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.640 voter turnout that they've had in a really long time, 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:33.319 and but this is this is who now they are 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:40.120 looking to restore, order to restore I guess jobs talk 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.400 to me about like the parallels that you see and 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:50.320 how these far right, fascist authoritarian dictatorships come to power, 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:55.560 Like what is the perfect storm that we're inside of. Well, 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.240 I think there is an important point for the United 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:01.800 States here. But I think it's important, of course, and 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.320 I'm sure everybody who talks about this says that there's 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:08.480 kind of a caveat that the Italian right is not 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.040 Marjorie Taylor Green. It's not like they're all part of 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:15.760 the same party. It's not like I mean, certainly there 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:19.520 is a move back toward authoritarianism and fascism across the globe, 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:22.200 and certainly that this reflects that but I think it's 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:25.920 important to also recognize what the local factors are that 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:29.520 lead to the rise of power are, because they're different 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:31.960 in every location. I think the important point for the 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:35.960 United States, among many, is that the rise of the 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:40.200 right in Italy is not just about people either tuning 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:44.400 out or running fascism. It was also about miscalculations on 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.560 the center and the left. They basically people who were 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:49.880 in the center and the left figured if they put 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:53.760 up somebody, if they basically destroy their own party and 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:56.440 put up somebody who was so preposterous on the right 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.240 that people would just kind of see how idiotic this was, 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:04.160 it would push them back toward their own power. That 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:08.000 in a way, so she was in a part supported 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:11.120 by the center and the left because people thought, well, 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:13.160 this is a perfect way for us to seize power. 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:19.240 And and and Italy of course is coalition politics. So 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:22.320 this government may last for a long time, it may not. 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:25.800 I mean, certainly, fascists are good at holding onto power 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.400 once they get it, so I would not underestimate that, 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.280 but I would say just that that the important point 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:35.840 for the United States is that this was partially a 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:41.080 result of miscalculation by our version of the Democrats to say, 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:43.360 if we put up somebody who's so far right, there's 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:45.600 no way voters are going to go for it. And 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:47.520 the reason I say that is because, of course, that's 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:51.720 the gamble that Democrats have made across the country in 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:54.360 the United States, that if we put up the Mastriani's 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:57.800 and the other guys and all these crazy JD vances 0:15:57.800 --> 0:15:59.080 and all this kind of thing. They've in a way 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:02.720 supported a lot of far right candidates with the assumption 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:04.880 that everybody's just going to see the world the way 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.840 they do. And I think that is the flashing warning 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:12.200 right sign besides having a right wing ruler who is 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:16.200 like super right on every social issue that Democrats care about. 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.280 But I would say that that really it's a challenge 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:25.760 for for the the Democrats who have pushed for these 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:30.560 far right candidates in all these positions. I mean, I 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.120 just think that it's a terrifying moment right in a 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:36.840 way for that reason that that could be a miscalculation 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.520 depending on what happens in the terms, you know. I 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:43.840 want to talk about the psychology of the moment right 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:48.560 now and what what we are and what human beings 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:53.280 are are going through and are experiencing because I feel like, 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:59.480 because we don't teach history in a comprehensive and honest way, 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:05.320 that we are always destined to repeat it. There is 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:09.159 fertile ground that has been laid for the type of 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:14.439 desperation that people in Italy or feeling, and people around 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:18.720 this country are feeling, and people around the globe. And 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:21.880 what I realize is that the people that are responsible 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:26.399 for creating economic insecurity are also the same people that 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:30.120 come in to swoop down and say we alone can 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:33.600 fix this right, that they are creating the conditions for 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:40.280 societal instability to uplift this fact that if you were 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.560 to just follow us give away a little bit of 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.000 your freedom, that we chip away a little bit here 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:52.200 and a little bit there, you'll be okay. So my question, Jonathan, 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:56.360 is about the fertile ground, is how does how does 0:17:56.400 --> 0:18:01.040 this groundwork get laid? Because it doesn't happen overnight, like 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:04.680 Madeline Albright had said, you know, and it's an old 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.200 quote that, like if you want to pluck a chicken, 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.040 you don't pluck all of the feathers all at once. 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:13.000 It's the same thing with authoritarianism. You do it one 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:15.960 feather at a time, and then nobody realizes until the 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:19.720 chicken is bald that here we are. So how hey, 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:23.600 let's leave bald out of it. But how do you 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:28.400 get to a place where you've you've created such fertile 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:34.400 ground for for these types of people, these types of personalities, 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:40.960 I should say, to become the answer, I'm teaching this 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:44.040 class COVID in Society this semester that looks at the 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:49.200 kind of tectonic shift that was brought about by the pandemic. 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.199 And so given that I'm living in the kind of 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.600 COVID world right now and everything you and I've been 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:58.120 talking about for the past seventy four years, I would 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:01.240 say that I would I would say that for me, 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:03.640 part of the question I always ask is how many 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.200 of these things would have happened without the pandemic. Of course, 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:11.720 that's an alternate universe where Michael J. Fox doesn't let 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:15.040 his the bad guy marry his mom. That's not the 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:19.760 world we're living in. But I would say that I 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:22.480 would say that, you know, think about what happened with 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:31.480 the pandemic, right, profound instability risk of globalization exposes social 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:36.120 safety nets which become all of a sudden costs that 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:42.119 we can't pay disrupts, supply chains, economy, economies are turning 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:44.879 upside down, and so and I guess just at the 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:48.240 most human level, you know, you can get killed by 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.639 talking to somebody else, and so who do you trust 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:55.919 to breathe their air becomes a really important factor. And 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:58.720 so I just feel like we're kind of living through 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:04.000 pandemic politics right now. I mean, that's my personal read 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:09.080 of it. Is just that the world and existence became 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:14.479 so uncertain, right the guardrails we thought we had we didn't. 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:19.639 The things we thought were supporting us became liabilities. And 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:21.920 in a way, people who rise to the top, not 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:24.000 just in governments, people will probably see this in their 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:29.399 daily lives, are kind of asshole naysayers. Really is this 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:32.240 is a perfect moment for them. Not people who are like, 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:35.840 let's all solve this together, but more like, I'm selfish 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:39.640 and we have the right to be selfish or against 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:43.320 everything that is in any way telling anyone to tell 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:47.120 anybody to do anything. And so in a way, it's 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:49.080 it's that kind of moment, and I think we're seeing 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:51.880 leaders who are a reflection of that around the world. Now. 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:53.639 I don't know if that would have been the case 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:57.280 without the pandemic. Certainly we had of course elected Trump 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:01.840 will before but but I don't know, it's it's a 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:05.000 it's a moment really for that, because that's the thing 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:07.199 that that's exactly what I was going to say, was 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:11.600 that prior to COVID, right, which I believe that we 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:14.560 are in the perfect phrase, we are living in the 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:19.400 politics of COVID, the politics of a pandemic, and there 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:22.880 has been that tetonic shift that I don't think we'll 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:25.800 ever shift back to normal. We're just we're operating in 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:30.160 a new abnormal. But prior to that Donald Trump was elected, 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:34.239 we had we had all of the information that was 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:37.840 available to us about who this person was, about who 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:41.400 what kind of politics they believed in, about their misogyny, 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:44.919 their racism. Donald Trump came out and said I alone 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:48.359 can fix this, right. Democrats were looking around and saying, 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:50.280 what are you trying to fix? Because we're coming off 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:56.639 the Obama years, right, So what you wrote the book 0:21:56.800 --> 0:22:02.760 on racial resentment, which he was able to exacerbate and 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:09.400 become this strong man figure. And so I'm like, what aside, 0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:15.199 if is there anything aside from just racism and the 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:19.800 fact that a black man became president of the United States. 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:26.879 That created the fertile ground for Trumpism in this country. 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:36.000 I mean, we've always had these tensions, right, I mean America. 0:22:36.280 --> 0:22:44.200 The rough economic framework of America is like people roughly speaking, 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:46.919 and people come to this very differently and have different 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:50.399 relationships to it. But the rough framework of America is 0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:56.119 like people roughly buy into a common pool, right, I mean, Otherwise, 0:22:56.680 --> 0:22:59.399 somebody from Louisiana, what do they have in common with 0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:03.119 somebody from Massachusetts, for example, And then you break it 0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:05.879 down by all other kinds of racial groups or ethnic 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:09.440 groups or political groups. But it's kind of like, yeah, 0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:12.520 we all buy into the notion that we vote for 0:23:12.560 --> 0:23:15.600 our elected leaders. Yeah, we buy into the notion that, 0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:19.359 at least in the post FDR world, you know, we 0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:24.200 pay into things like Medicare or social Security. The state 0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:29.840 does certain things for us, things like that. But those 0:23:29.840 --> 0:23:32.639 things are not given, right, None of those things are given. 0:23:32.760 --> 0:23:38.480 And so I do think that I mean again, those 0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:41.959 things were those things are based on communal participation, and 0:23:42.080 --> 0:23:44.200 when a good part of the population isn't going to 0:23:44.320 --> 0:23:47.240 participate or pay into it, then we can see the 0:23:47.240 --> 0:23:53.040 whole thing is can fall apart. And so I certainly 0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:56.160 think in my book, I saw that with the election 0:23:56.240 --> 0:24:00.639 of Obama, absolutely, and the fact that Obama tried to 0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:07.120 instill the you know, affordable care actus first as first move, 0:24:07.640 --> 0:24:09.920 which was kind of like telling people to pay into 0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:12.760 a common pool, this assumption that we're all in it together, 0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:16.439 and there was a lot of rejection against that. I 0:24:16.480 --> 0:24:18.439 don't know, I guess that's really my question for you. 0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:22.000 Had let's say Mitt Romney had won the presidency, would 0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:25.200 we be in a better place right now? I think 0:24:25.240 --> 0:24:28.320 that we know. I think that in terms of a 0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:35.119 better place with the lack of political violence and the 0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:39.439 rise of white supremacist organizations. Yes, I think that in 0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:44.760 terms of, you know, policy to advance the country. No, 0:24:45.560 --> 0:24:50.159 So I feel like it was you know, six of 0:24:50.440 --> 0:24:53.119 one half and as and of the other, which is, 0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:58.520 you know, were was a black person never supposed to 0:24:58.560 --> 0:25:01.240 ascend to the highest level because we were always going 0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:05.639 to experience a violent white lash, right and because we 0:25:05.760 --> 0:25:13.160 didn't address real racism and we and you know, one 0:25:13.160 --> 0:25:15.720 of one of the things that one of the questions 0:25:15.720 --> 0:25:18.440 that's that's being posed right now is we're as we're 0:25:18.440 --> 0:25:22.920 watching the shift globally. Rachel Maddow did a killer opening 0:25:23.600 --> 0:25:28.320 uh the you know on Monday Night when she gave 0:25:28.320 --> 0:25:31.800 a whole history on Mussolini and a whole history on 0:25:32.119 --> 0:25:36.640 what the Germans did in their deep excavation of how 0:25:36.680 --> 0:25:39.760 did we get here? The Nuremberg Trials, all of these 0:25:39.800 --> 0:25:44.399 things to like get to root out, right, um, the 0:25:44.960 --> 0:25:48.359 core of this, of this hate right, of this, of 0:25:48.400 --> 0:25:52.520 this uh nationalism that that rose in their country to 0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:55.800 such prominence. They were the only ones to do that 0:25:56.560 --> 0:25:59.440 in Europe. No one else went through the kind of 0:25:59.560 --> 0:26:04.280 record that Germany did. And I so my feeling is 0:26:04.320 --> 0:26:07.960 that had we done that, we had we ever done 0:26:07.960 --> 0:26:11.080 that and had that as a core part of our 0:26:11.320 --> 0:26:14.920 values in America of what equity and justice looks like. 0:26:15.400 --> 0:26:19.080 It doesn't mean that the slave trade and Jim Crow 0:26:19.160 --> 0:26:22.439 would have been avoided, but when we had that twelve 0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:27.560 year opportunity for reconstruction, had we had an actual racial 0:26:27.640 --> 0:26:33.439 reckoning that was embedded into our advancement as a society, no, 0:26:33.640 --> 0:26:36.920 I don't think that we would have ever arrived at 0:26:37.000 --> 0:26:41.439 this place right like, because we would have learned, we 0:26:41.440 --> 0:26:44.440 would have known. That's a part to me of education, 0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:48.440 and that's why this far right movement in the United 0:26:48.480 --> 0:26:53.240 States as well as globally, is so anti education. It's 0:26:53.280 --> 0:26:57.720 so anti you know, academics, it's so anti anyone that 0:26:57.840 --> 0:27:02.080 actually is a critical thinker, because it goes against right, 0:27:02.240 --> 0:27:10.000 their ability to cajole the masses. Yeah, I mean, and 0:27:10.280 --> 0:27:14.040 so the question is like, I mean, I'll just be obviously, 0:27:15.000 --> 0:27:17.720 I come from a family of Holocaust survivors, right, and 0:27:17.800 --> 0:27:23.120 so certainly when things started happening in Germany with anti Semitism, 0:27:23.119 --> 0:27:27.480 it was the intellectuals that got targeted first, shutting down papers, 0:27:27.560 --> 0:27:30.720 burning books, all the things that are almost become like 0:27:30.760 --> 0:27:34.240 if you're living fifty year, eighty years after it like 0:27:34.280 --> 0:27:38.080 almost a stereotype like, oh, burning books, isn't that so 0:27:38.200 --> 0:27:40.520 not creative or something like that. But it's just crazy 0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:46.280 how much these things, these kind of issues replay themselves 0:27:46.320 --> 0:27:49.760 with kind of find another who we can all rally 0:27:49.840 --> 0:27:54.800 against and then take the kind of liberties that would 0:27:54.800 --> 0:28:01.760 be unimaginable against secular society. And so it does feel 0:28:01.840 --> 0:28:05.159 I mean, people who come from my traumatic past or 0:28:05.359 --> 0:28:08.479 were traumatic past, I mean, there's not there's it's not 0:28:08.520 --> 0:28:11.439 a it's not a mystery why we've been like on 0:28:11.520 --> 0:28:14.680 pins and needles for quite some time about these kind 0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:19.280 of things. Um and and at the same time, the 0:28:19.400 --> 0:28:22.240 lesson of kind of World War two is that ultimately 0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:25.439 there were checks and balances in the system. Ultimately, the 0:28:25.560 --> 0:28:30.639 United States, because of a miscalculation of bombing Pole Harbor, 0:28:31.240 --> 0:28:33.040 was forced into a war it probably didn't want to 0:28:33.040 --> 0:28:36.399 go into, but it became. It became a check and 0:28:36.480 --> 0:28:41.280 balance against aggression. But who's the you know, if the 0:28:41.320 --> 0:28:45.400 Republicans take over here, what's the what's going to be 0:28:45.400 --> 0:28:48.520 the world? Who's going to write the world again? Right? 0:28:48.880 --> 0:28:50.640 In a way, you know, it feels like it's a 0:28:50.680 --> 0:28:54.560 continuation of the same, the same conflict. And I'm not 0:28:54.600 --> 0:28:57.800 in any way trying to, of course minimize racism in 0:28:57.840 --> 0:29:00.520 any way, shape or form. And I do agree with 0:29:00.560 --> 0:29:06.080 you that there's that that reckoning that have needed to happen. 0:29:06.120 --> 0:29:07.959 But it's also important to note that it's not just 0:29:08.000 --> 0:29:11.160 that the reckoning didn't happen, it's that the resistance to 0:29:11.280 --> 0:29:13.800