WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: TechStuff Experiments With Fusion 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:14.640 Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.680 Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:20.599 and I love all things tech. And it's Friday. That 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:23.800 means it's time for a classic episode of tech Stuff. 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:29.280 And this one originally published on April fIF two thousand thirteen. 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:34.760 It's called tex Stuff Experiments with Fusion. So let's listen in. 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.760 We're talking nuclear fusion and to uh kind of give 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.639 you an idea of what nuclear fusion is, how we 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:45.599 are trying to harness nuclear fusion as a source of 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:49.760 energy production, really electricity production. Uh, and it's it's being 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:51.800 tended as one of the technologies of the feature that 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:54.279 is going to give us unlimited energy. And how far 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.960 away is it? Twenty to thirty to fifty years And 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:00.360 every year it seems like we're still at the lead 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:04.120 to fifty years. Yeah, yeah, it's that's one of those 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:08.319 things that scientists will often Riley kind of joke about 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:11.880 that the technology is always twenty years away. And uh, 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:14.160 and you know, it's because the challenges that we need 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:18.760 to overcome are quite impressive. Doesn't doesn't mean we won't 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:22.080 do it because human beings are amazing, you know, we innovate, 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:25.640 we event but but let's let's kind of first of 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:29.600 all talk about the difference between fusion and fission. Fission 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:32.680 is the kind of a nuclear process that is used 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.360 in our nuclear power plants today. So if you are 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:38.240 familiar with the nuclear power plants things like you know there, 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:41.240 of course they're the famous ones that have suffered catastrophic 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:46.360 failures like Three Mile Island or Chernobyl. Uh. But these 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:51.160 are the the reactors where they split up larger atoms 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:53.600 into smaller atoms and as a result, a great deal 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.760 of energy is given off really in the form of heat, 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:00.760 which is then harnessed to convert water into steam, which 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:05.720 turns steam turbines which are connected to electrical generators generating electricity. 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:10.720 So really it's just a very very efficient way of 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:13.560 heating up a lot of water really quickly and making 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:18.880 it do work. Yes, a very efficient, very radioactive steam generator. Yeah. Yeah, 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:22.280 And that's one of the big issues with the fission 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:26.480 power plants obviously, is that it uses nuclear radioactive material, 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:30.320 not just nuclear material, radioactive material, and that it doesn't 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:34.120 the radioactivity is still very much a factor once that 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:38.720 reaction is finished four thousands and thousands of years, right. Yeah. 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:42.760 Generally speaking, only about three percent of the uranium in 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:47.679 a uranium rod is used up in a fission reactor 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:51.720 before the waste has to be disposed of because it 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:55.200 will continue to heat up until it reaches a point 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:58.800 that's too hot and the reactor itself can suffer a failure. 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:01.760 You have, that's what you have, the meltdown. Yeah. Uh. 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:05.920 There are some uh, some approaches that are suggesting that 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.120 we take another pass at that nuclear waste and use 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:11.840 that in a second round by immersing it in a 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:16.320 molten salt the waist annihilating molten salt reactor, which I 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:18.520 still I just can't I can't get over the the 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:22.840 annihilator part of the waist annihilator. Uh. Yeah. So this 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:25.800 this reactor would it's still a fission reactor, but it 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:30.359 would immerse the radioactive material the uranium in a molten 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:34.160 salt and use that to control the heat in a 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:36.080 in a way that would allow you to use that 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:38.280 material for longer, so you'd be able to get more 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:42.840 use out of the same radioactive material and reduce the 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.520 life of the actual radioactive elements at the at the 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.960 final output, I think it would only be radioactive. It 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:54.240 would only be reactive for another years. Yeah, so still 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:58.000 well beyond our lifetimes right now. But not something that 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:01.720 you would say, alright, generation and generations and generations are 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:03.200 going to have to be aware of that. You don't 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:05.720 have to start, you know, programming things that people, you know, 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.600 languages that don't exist yet want to be able to understand. 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:11.480 How do I how do I create a pictograph that 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.720 shows exactly do not go in here? Wessed it up 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:18.120 really hard? Right in ten thousand years, English may not 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:21.280 even be a thing anymore. So, um so yeah, I 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:24.640 mean that's that's one of those possible solutions. But fusion 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:28.240 is very different. Fission all about splitting atoms apart. Fusion 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:32.200 is about being buddy buddy and bringing atoms together. This 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:34.800 is this is the kind of of process that we 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:39.039 see happening in stars, including the sun. Did the sun 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:42.560 being a star? Yes, yes, Well I'm just making sure 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:46.600 people know that. And despite what my one of my 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:50.160 favorite bands has said in a cover of a song, 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:54.000 actually the sun is not really a massive incandescent gas, 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:57.120 the gigantic nuclear fulness. But they did correct it in 0:04:57.120 --> 0:04:59.359 a later song and say it was a miasma of 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.800 incandesc and plasma. So they did go back and correct it, 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.680 but they were actually quoting an old song from a 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:10.520 science album for kids, which was to explain the process 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:14.240 of fusion and how the Sun generates energy and light 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:17.320 and uh. And the way it happens is it takes 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:20.880 these hydrogen atoms, and because the Sun is so massive 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.560 and dense, there's a huge amount of gravity there and 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:26.960 it's creating an enormous amount of pressure and heat. So 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:31.560 the heat is stripping those hydrogen atoms of their electrons, 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:35.559 creating ions. Um that creates ions, and in a pure 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:39.480 hydrogen atom is just a proton and an electron, so 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.240 that electron goes away. Now you've just got a proton there. 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:46.840 And so you have these protons now that are zipping 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:51.640 around an incredible um and being pressed together really tightly 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:54.760 by the amazing force of gravity. And at the Sun's 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.599 core where this is the strongest, these atoms are banging 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:03.200 up against each other so fast and so close that 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:09.280 one of the other fundamental forces in the universe overacts 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.800 the electromagnetic force. Now, the four forces in the universe 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:16.360 include gravity, which is the weakest, but is the it 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:21.680 is the most effective over huge distances. You have electromagnetic force, 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:25.760 and then you have the strong and weak nuclear forces. Now, 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:30.400 the strong force is what holds nucleic particles together. It's 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.280 like the glue that keeps a nucleus together, right, right, 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:39.280 So if you were able to get two protons close 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:43.239 enough to each other, uh, the strong nuclear force would 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:47.200 be strong enough to counteract the electromagnetic force. That's it's 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.160 naturally driving them apart. Because protons both have a positive charge. 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:52.520 And if you've ever taken to magnets and tried to 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:56.120 stick the two positive ends together, it resists to you. 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:58.400 It doesn't want to do that thing. But when you 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.560 get them to within one alliant of a millimeter of 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.440 each other, yeah, then that will that will go away, 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.920 or it will be overcome by the strong exactly. Yeah, 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:13.000 so you have to get them really really close together. Now, 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:16.240 at that pomp point, when you have fused to hydrogen 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:20.960 protons together, you have created a different element. Hydrogen has 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:27.520 now become helium at a temperature millions of degrees. So yeah, 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:29.840 we can't see we might both be that, they might 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:32.760 be giants. I'll be seeing them in a week to 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:34.880 come into Atlanta. By the time you guys hear this, 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:37.400 I've already seen it and the show was awesome, I guess. 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:43.920 So anyway, the the protons have fused together to form helium. 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:47.920 But here's the interesting thing. In that process. The mass 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:52.640 of that helium atom is slightly less than the combined 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:56.880 masses of the two hydrogen atoms that fused together to 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:00.600 make the helium. Why is that, Jonathan, Some that mass 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:04.800 gets converted into energy. Now, there's a little equation you 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:09.400 may have heard of called E equals MC squared. I 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:11.960 think I think some some guy named Einstein was talking 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:15.480 about that. I don't know. Listen here Einstein. Yeah, Einstein 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:18.600 came up with this idea where he came up with 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:22.040 the theory and and turns out that it looks like 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:27.760 it's true energy equals mass times this square or the 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.440 speed of light squared, rather not the square speed of light, 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.520 but the speed of light squared. So speed of light 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:36.200 is a big, big, big, big number. Then you square 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:40.760 it and it's even bigger, bigger, and you multiply financially bigger. Yeah, 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:44.400 and multiply that times whatever the mass is. You get 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:48.920 your energy output and so essentially, what this equation tells 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:52.160 us is that a tiny little bit of mass, once 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:55.520 converted into energy, will be an enormous amount of energy 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:59.280 the same thing. And also the mass and energy never 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:02.640 really go way, and they are simply converted. Exactly. We 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:06.200 cannot create or destroy energy, but what we can do 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.679 is convert energy to mass and mass to energy. At 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:12.800 least in theory. Now, if we were to convert energy 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:14.839 to mass, it would take an awful lot of energy 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:17.040 to make just a little bit of mass. Which is 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.040 why I always go crazy when I read the Harry 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:22.120 Potter books and people conjure stuff out of thin air, 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:24.600 because I think, do you you just destroyed like three 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.600 solar systems in order to do that, clearly pulling them 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:29.800 from a parallel dimension or something like that. Yes, so 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:32.160 there's just a people in a parallel dimension' Like it's 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:34.640 so cold, there's a there's a really huge room of 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:38.680 requirement somewhere. That's all right, Now you're talking about language. 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.280 So yeah, a little bit of mass creates a lot 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:45.520 of energy. So even though we're talking tiny atomic measurements 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:49.719 here where we have the helium atom, which has got 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:52.840 a lower mass than the two combined hydrogen atoms that 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.319 still puts off quite a bit of energy. And and 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.520 the Sun is doing this all the time with tons 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:02.640 of hydrogen converting to helium every day. All right, so 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:06.439 massive amount of energy that's being that's being admitted, I mean, 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:08.520 and if it weren't being emitted, then there would be 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.280 a life on this planet. And we know it works, 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.080 you know, so we conserve this. This is this is 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:17.240 as far as we can tell real science. Yes, so 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:19.480 we know it works, we know we can do it. 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:21.600 In fact, we have done it. We've reproduced it here 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:23.240 on Earth. We'll get into that in a little bit. 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:27.360 But the question was if the Sun does this, if 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:30.000 that's how the Sun does this, could we create energy 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:33.360 here on Earth using a similar method, Knowing that on 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.480 Earth the conditions are very different from the core of 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:38.320 the Sun. We don't have that gravity or that heat 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:44.120 that is allowing the Sun to overcome the right. Yeah, 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:46.880 this and this, and the gravity is the really important part, 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:51.280 because that gravity is what's allowing that this nuclear fusion 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.040 process to happen at a temperature that would actually be 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.080 lower than it we would need here on Earth because 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:58.040 we don't have that gravity. We don't have the ability 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:02.160 to compress the atoms as tightly together as we would 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:05.000 if if we had the Sun's gravity. We have to 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:08.600 we have to overcome that with even more heat. Yeah, 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:12.839 the Sun only needs about fifteen million degrees kelvin. Only 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.640 am easily fifteen million kelvin. Sorry sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:18.880 my my bad. I always do that. I did it 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:21.160 once and one of our great listeners corrected me. And 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.120 that's the only reason, because our listeners are awesome and 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.480 they let me know when I've done something silly like that, 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:30.000 completely ridiculous, the only reason I know, So, thank you listeners. 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:32.720 Um so, so, yeah, the Sun only needs about fifteen 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.120 million kelvin. In order to do this here on Earth, 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.120 it would be something like a hundred million. Yeah, so 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:40.000 we're talking massive amounts of energy that we would need 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:41.800 here on Earth to compensate for the fact that we 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:45.720 don't have that gravity there to help us with this reaction. Um. Now, 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:51.080 in the Sun, you're talking about the pure hydrogen encountering 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:54.640 other pure hydrogen. So one proton, one electron, the electrons 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.400 get stripped away, the protons get fused together. But on Earth, 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:03.040 we've discovered that there's a better combination to go with 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.640 it requires less energy than it would if we were 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:08.800 to use pure hydrogen. Right, It's it's relatively difficult to 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.560 run into pure hydrogen here. Yeah, you would have to 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.320 you would have to essentially split the hydrogen off of 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:18.679 something else. There's lots of hydrogen on Earth. We have 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:21.040 no shortage of it. Yeah, it's just connected to lots 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:24.920 of other stuff. So. Um. The two types of the 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:28.760 two isotopes of hydrogen and isotope by the way, means 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:33.959 that you have more or fewer neutrons than whatever the 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.640 the atom typically has. But it's or it's it's a 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:40.920 different number of neutrons than the base version of that atom, 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:45.239 but it's um same number of protons, same number of electrons. 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:49.880 So an isotope is one isotope of hydrogen is a deuterium, 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:52.880 which is also known as heavy hydrogen, and it has 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.760 one proton and one neutron, So typically you would not 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.840 have a neutron with hydrogen. Deuterium does have a neutron. 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:03.080 And then you have tritium, which is called also called 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:08.200 heavy heavy hydrogen, so it's extra heavy. He's not heavy, 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.120 he's my tritium. Uh. And this is a proton that 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:15.840 has two neutrons. Uh so the same still the same element, 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:19.520 it's just a different isotope. Now deuterium, we've got a 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:21.440 lot of that here on Earth. Yeah, it can be 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:25.200 extracted from seawater. It's not radioactive or anything. Yeah, it's 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.480 not dangerous um that but yeah, you can. You can 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:33.920 find deuterium in in ocean water. Um. You cannot find 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:38.840 tritium very easily, mostly because it's not completely stable. It 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.599 does tend to decay and it's just it has a 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:43.840 half life of about ten years. But you can. You 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.560 can get it from lithium. Yeah, you you if you 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:51.040 take lithium, the metal lithium, not the medication, the metal lithium, 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:53.640 and you bombard it with neutrons, then one of the 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.240 things you get out of that is tritium. So that 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.000 is one way to get the treatium and it we 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:01.400 found out that treaty um and deuterium, if you try 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.360 to fuse those two together, then you get helium and 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:09.160 a neutron out of that reaction, and uh, it requires 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:13.160 less energy than than other combinations. Do write these are 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:16.400 the current forms of fusion that are possible on our planet. 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.880 Are our deuterium tritium. Hey guys, hope you're enjoying this 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:22.080 classic episode of tech stuff. We're going to take a 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:32.640 quick break to thank our sponsors. All right, let's get 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.480 back to fusion. So we've got the deuterium in the 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.840 sea water. We can bombard some lithium with some neutrons 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.760 and get some tritium out of that. We're ready to 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:46.800 introduce the deuterium to the tritium and uh and and 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:50.080 make a date and have them fused together in a 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:53.520 single unit of helium and shoot off an extra neutron 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:55.920 and a lot of energy. What do we need to do? 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:59.359 So we know that we're going to be using deuterium 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.920 and tritium because that's the the most efficient way that 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.520 we've found so far to be able to do. It's 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:07.800 the easiest for for us to use deuterium. Deuterium would 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.880 actually be more efficient, but it's more difficult to get started. 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:13.880 I see, I see so right, So we we might 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:16.600 get more energy output with deuterium deuterium, but it would 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:19.600 also require more energy to get the whole thing started, right, 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:21.880 which is kind of the entire problem with fusion. Yeah, 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:24.320 that's that's that's the bigges, all right, we'll just go 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:26.120 ahead and say that one of the biggest challenges we 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:29.160 face with fusion is the fact that in order to 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.480 make a fusion reaction here on Earth, you have to 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:34.040 pour in a great deal of energy so that you 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:38.760 can create the the the the situation you need to hear, 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.160 you're replicating what goes on in a star. That's really 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:44.000 a lot of temperature, a lot of pressure. So in 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.520 order to do that without all that pressure here on Earth, 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.480 we've got to pour and even more temperature. So that's 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.320 the big challenge is how do you create a reaction 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.000 that's going to generate more energy through the output than 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:58.520 it required to start it. So if it requires more 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:00.640 energy to go in, then you get out. You have 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:03.640 an energy sync. You actually you're in the red and 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.520 that's not really useful. I mean, it's it's pretty it's 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.760 still pretty cool, yeah, but just doesn't commercially viable. I 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:12.880 guess if you want to make helium, uh, they're probably 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.400 we are running out. I mean, but still that's a 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:21.320 lot of energy you're pouring into making some balloons float 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.400 or cooling the large Hadron collider. However you want to 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:26.040 think about it, all right, but so so we do 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:28.640 have we do. There's two main ways that we are 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:31.600 experimenting with this on Earth, and one of those it's 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:35.800 called magnetic confinement. Right, So magnetic confinement is what was 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:40.720 used in the joint European Torus or jet fusion reactor. 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:43.800 And this was sort of a test reactor. It wasn't 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:48.200 meant to be, uh like an electrical generator, right right, 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.000 It wasn't a power plant. It was more science is 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.680 cool than anything else. But and this is a good 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.440 point to say that, you know, ultimately the way we 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.600 would generate electricity with these is not that we have 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:03.480 some magical like power. Yeah. They just dug into the 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:05.879 bolts and then it pulls. Yeah. This is still a 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:08.399 steam generator. Yeah, which is which is really interesting to 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:11.040 me because you know, this is technically this is steam punk. 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:17.159 I mean, yeah, we're essentially harnessing the power of the 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:21.080 stom the stars themselves to turn water into steam. Yeah, 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:23.560 it's still it's still converting water to steam to turn 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:28.080 really efficiently and a lot of water because you're talking 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:30.679 about a lot of heat. So then that's the That's 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.359 the other thing is that if if you could have 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:34.919 used the same amount of energy, you used to start 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:40.399 the reaction to heat up some water and get a 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:43.200 better effect than Obviously, this makes no sense. I mean, 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.040 that's the whole point is that we have to find 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:48.240 a way to do a fusion reaction where we're getting 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.800 more energy than we're putting into it. Otherwise, just take 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.240 the reactor out and just direct your energy to water directly, 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:58.879 take out the middleman. But magnetic confinement you mentioned it 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:04.680 uses a really powerful magnetic field to hold the ionized 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:08.880 gas in place. An Ionized gas is plasma. So plasma 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:11.199 is a gas where you've got free roaming electrons. That 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:13.959 is what the sun is. That's you know, all that 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:16.840 heat has stripped away the electrons, you've poured energy in, 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:20.720 You've pushed the electrons away. You've got these free flowing 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:26.600 uh nuclei inside the plasma. And then the magnetic field 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.800 starts to press all of these nuclei together until you 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:33.640 are able to fuse them. And what you get ore 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:38.919 helium atoms and free neutrons. The neutrons fly off and 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:42.960 they hit what they call blankets, blankets of lithium. Yeah, blankets. 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:45.760 Lithium is in the blanket as well, yes, and that 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.679 that means that because remember, if you bombard lithium with 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:51.280 a neutron, you create tritium, which means that you can 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:54.280 continually create part of the fuel source you need for 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:56.960 this reactually while you're in the middle of the process. Yeah, 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:59.360 it's pretty pretty neat. Yeah, And it's also giving off 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:01.080 a lot of energy in the form of heat, which 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.160 is then heating up the water to turn into steam, etcetera, etcetera. 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:08.600 So that's magnetic confinement. Um, and we use different things 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:11.680 to heat up the plasma, like we might use microwaves 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:15.720 or lasers or electricity or I think that that accelerator 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:20.119 driven neutral particle beams are our our integral in the 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:25.000 international through nuclear experimental reactor or either which is the 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:28.440 one in France. Yes, it comes from France. That one, 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:33.920 Yes it does. That one is still being built and 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:38.399 it's it's projected to be finished and protected, projected to 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:42.119 be online by although whether or not that is a 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:45.520 true fact or not is you know, remains to be seen. Yeah. Yeah, 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.480 So if it stays on target, then we'll be able 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:52.359 to say by you know, if this is actually a 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:56.280 viable means of generating electricity for us. By the way, 0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:01.119 the Chamber has a special name. It's a it's a 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:04.680 how did how do we decided that this tacomac. Yeah, 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:08.280 we've got Tacomax here in Atlantic. Yeah, so it keeps 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.040 throwing me out. Taco Mac is a is a restaurant 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:16.000 chain in Atlanta that has obviously tacos. But this is toomac. 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:20.200 It's actually a Russian acronym for heroidal chamber with axial 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:23.399 magnetic field, which basically means it's a donut. It's a 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:30.040 magnetic it's a magnetic donut, magnetic donut. Yeah. And granted 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:31.840 this is this is a you know, the Eider version 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:34.960 is a is a hundred foot tall, twenty three thousand ton, 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:40.560 million part donut, enormous magnetic donut. Yeah. And the reason 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:42.879 for the donut shape is they've found that that is 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:47.600 the most effective way of of containing the plasma in 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:51.360 this really tight field so that you can have these 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:54.960 fusion reactions take place. So we've got magnetic confinement. There's 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:59.439 another method which has receives some some attention early on, 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:01.359 and there's still some labs, like there's some in the 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:04.280 United States that are still looking at this approach, and 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:06.560 it may even turn out that this ends up generating 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:10.000 more energy in the long run than the magnetic confinement. 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:12.720 But we're still trying to figure that out. It's called 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:16.159 inertial confinement, right, And this is using laser beams or 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:19.520 ion beams to squeeze and heat that hydrogen plasma. Yeah. 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:24.200 In this case, really they take a pellet a frozen hydrogen, 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:27.879 so you have deuterium and tritium in an actual physical pellet. 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:31.080 So you're talking super cold, yeah yeah, and and and 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:33.320 peace sized, I mean like little bitty thing. Yeah. And 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:36.399 you're using these these lasers or ions to heat that 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:40.439 pellet into a plasma almost instantaneously. I mean you're just 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:43.880 you're bombarding it with an enormous amount of energy. And 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.920 essentially what's happening is that all right, if you've ever 0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:51.119 seen the magic trick where the magician walks up to 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:54.640 the the the dining table with all the beautiful glassware 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.960 and everything that's perched perfectly on the tablecloth, and then 0:21:57.960 --> 0:21:59.800 he grabs the table cloth because it a quick jerk 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:02.800 and anything stays therein bankmen failed to do and Gus 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:06.560 Fuster exactly. Yeah, it's the same same sort of idea here, 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:10.040 and that you are heating it up so fast that 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:13.439 because it's because this is a compressed pellet and the 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:15.960 lasers are actually compressing it. Our ions are compressing it 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:20.760 even further as it's being heated up. Before the electromagnetic 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:23.439 force has the opportunity to push the atoms apart, the 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:27.240 strong nuclear force fuses them together and so kind of implodes. Yeah, 0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:31.440 so you've gotta do. I mean, it's happening super fast now, 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:35.120 the fraction and like one millionth of a second, I think, 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:38.400 is how fast this happens. It's insane and and uh, 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:41.760 it's there are other differences between the initial confinement and 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:45.080 magnetic confinement. With magnetic convironment, the goal is to find 0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:48.840 a way to have ongoing fusion reactions so that you 0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:52.600 don't have to just generate electricity or generate heat and spurts. 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:55.840 That you could actually have a maintained reaction that goes 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:58.119 on for an extended amount of time to generate as 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:02.240 much electricity as is needed, whereas inertial confinement you'd have 0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:05.359 to set up multiple essentially multiple targets right right, because 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:07.440 the way that the way that one of them works 0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:11.399 At the National Ignition Facility of Lawrenceville, Livermore, laboratory in 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:14.640