WEBVTT - The Ghent Altarpiece: Chasing the Lost 'Just Judges' Panel

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shonda Land Audio in

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<v Speaker 1>partnership with I Heart Radio. Do you remember when you

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<v Speaker 1>got your first smartphone or maybe your first Polaroid instant camera.

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<v Speaker 1>I think I just dated myself. Everyone went photo crazy

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<v Speaker 1>in the century. It was oil paint that was the

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<v Speaker 1>new hot tech. Unlike tempera paints before it, oil paints

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<v Speaker 1>offered artists a wider array of technical applications and it

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<v Speaker 1>was just so much more flexible. It was revolutionary to

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<v Speaker 1>many artists, and everyone wanted a portrait or maybe a

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<v Speaker 1>painting depicting a story from classical mythology as its subject,

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<v Speaker 1>or among the more affluent crowd, maybe a devotional work

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<v Speaker 1>for a chapel they were sponsoring, work such as the

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<v Speaker 1>now famous Against Altarpiece, which we'll be talking about in

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<v Speaker 1>this episode. A piece at in spite of its adventurous life,

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<v Speaker 1>is still with us today. Welcome to Criminalia. I'm Maria

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<v Speaker 1>Tremarque and I'm Holly Fry. The search for the stolen

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<v Speaker 1>Ghent alter Piece near the end of the Second World

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<v Speaker 1>War is a major point of Filmed The Monument's Men,

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<v Speaker 1>and yes, we are going to touch on that event later,

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<v Speaker 1>but that's not the only time this piece has been

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<v Speaker 1>stolen and recovered or vandalized. In fact, part of it

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<v Speaker 1>remains missing today, and that's going to be more of

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<v Speaker 1>our focus. The Ghent alter Piece, also known as Adoration

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<v Speaker 1>of the Mystic Lamb, was commissioned by Yos Vade, a

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<v Speaker 1>wealthy merchant who is recorded as either Alderman or deputy

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<v Speaker 1>Burgomaster of Ghent, Belgium, and his wife lizbet Burlut, for

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<v Speaker 1>the Vade chapel in the Church of St. John the Baptist.

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<v Speaker 1>Today this is St. Babo Cathedral in Ghent. The work

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<v Speaker 1>was probably commissioned in the mid fourteen twenties. We're not

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<v Speaker 1>sure about that, but what we do know is that

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<v Speaker 1>it was completed and ready for viewing in fourteen thirty two.

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<v Speaker 1>It is considered the most famous Flemish painting from the

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<v Speaker 1>Renaissance period, and as we're about to get into it's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of a miracle that it has made it this

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<v Speaker 1>far through history during the time of the Renaissance, so

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking fourteenth century into seventeenth century Ish. A large

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<v Speaker 1>altar piece such as this one, how do unique status

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<v Speaker 1>as a commission These were works typically produced by artists

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<v Speaker 1>with a capital A a commissioned altarpiece would when installed

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<v Speaker 1>the A if not the focal point inside a chapel.

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<v Speaker 1>The Gatt alterpiece is a politic type, which means it

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<v Speaker 1>has multiple panels that are designed to be opened and

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<v Speaker 1>closed by folding hinged side panels. So when it's open,

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<v Speaker 1>the alter piece measures roughly eleven and a half by

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen feet or that's three and a half by four

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<v Speaker 1>and a half meters, and with its shutters closed it

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<v Speaker 1>measures about eleven and a half by seven and a

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<v Speaker 1>half feet or three and a half by two meters.

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<v Speaker 1>So what we're talking about here is big. This is

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<v Speaker 1>a large piece of artwork. Consider a standard garage door

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<v Speaker 1>and a standard suburb in the United States is seven

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<v Speaker 1>and north maybe eight feet high to compare, so the

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<v Speaker 1>work is tall, tall enough to include life size nudes.

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<v Speaker 1>The piece is composed of twelve framed oak panels, eight

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<v Speaker 1>of which are painted on both sides using oil paints

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<v Speaker 1>to visually tell Christian biblical stories. The overarching theme here

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<v Speaker 1>centers around the redemption of humanity. The lower center panel

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<v Speaker 1>of this piece is by far the largest of the panels,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's the panel depicting the story that gives the

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<v Speaker 1>altar piece its name. It shows a crowd worshiping a lamb,

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<v Speaker 1>which of course symbolizes Jesus Christ and his sacrifice in

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<v Speaker 1>the crucifixion story. Above the lamb is a dove symbolizing

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<v Speaker 1>the Holy Spirit. Among all the panels there are depictions

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<v Speaker 1>of Christ, the Virgin Mary, Adam and Eve, saints, angels, prophets,

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<v Speaker 1>a curiously humanoid sheep which has made art history students

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<v Speaker 1>chuckle throughout the years. There are some other Biblical figures

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<v Speaker 1>as well, and they include stories like the Annunciation to

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<v Speaker 1>the Virgin Mary as well as the passion of Christ.

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<v Speaker 1>Yos and his wife appear on the back panels of

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<v Speaker 1>the piece. On the far left bottom panel you'll find

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<v Speaker 1>the kneeling figure of Yos and the far right has

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<v Speaker 1>the kneeling figure of Lizbet. So we've got a work

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<v Speaker 1>of art, added the couple who commissioned it. So now

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<v Speaker 1>let's talk about a guy named Yon van Eyke, the

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<v Speaker 1>artist who painted it. Yon Vnik is the most famous

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<v Speaker 1>member of a family of painters from the town of

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<v Speaker 1>Messak in the Diocese of Liege in the Holy Roman Empire.

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<v Speaker 1>This area is now Belgium. He was born in give

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<v Speaker 1>or take a year or two here, it's a little

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<v Speaker 1>fuzzy along that timeline, and had three siblings, one sister,

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<v Speaker 1>Margareta and two brothers, Hubert and Lambert. As an adult,

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<v Speaker 1>Yon primarily lived and worked in the city of Bruges

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<v Speaker 1>and is in Bruge, where he painted what many consider

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<v Speaker 1>his greatest achievement, this Ghent altarpiece. Some artists inspire you,

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<v Speaker 1>said the New York Times of a Jan Vanic retrospective

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<v Speaker 1>in nak They continued, leaves you stupefied. Jan painted religious

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<v Speaker 1>commissions and portraits of Burgundian courtiers, nobles, churchmen, and merchants.

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<v Speaker 1>In October of fourteen twenty two, Jon cannot really hide

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<v Speaker 1>from the historical record because at that point he was

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<v Speaker 1>appointed Valet de chambre, the court painter of John of

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<v Speaker 1>Bavaria account of Hinup Holland, and that was a position

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<v Speaker 1>he held until the count's death in fourteen. He then

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<v Speaker 1>took a prestigious appointment with Philip the Good, Duke of Burgundy,

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<v Speaker 1>also as court painter. Some historians believe that some of

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<v Speaker 1>his freak went travels for the Burgundian court were actually

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<v Speaker 1>diplomatic missions that would have been uncommon for a court

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<v Speaker 1>painter to do. Other historians believe that those so called

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<v Speaker 1>diplomatic missions, yeah, that should have air quotes, and instead

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<v Speaker 1>they theorized that he likely was traveling as a spy

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<v Speaker 1>for the Duke. But spying or no spying, the travel

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<v Speaker 1>that he did broadened his horizons, and in turn, what

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<v Speaker 1>he saw on those travels often became content in his art.

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<v Speaker 1>Jan Vanak was gifted with oil paints and experimented with

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<v Speaker 1>new textures, light, and spatial effects of nature. He filled

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<v Speaker 1>his paintings with religious symbols and often disguised them as

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<v Speaker 1>everyday objects, such as the sun. The realism of his

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<v Speaker 1>pieces was admired by Italian humanist Syriachis Dancona, who observed

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<v Speaker 1>that vanaks art seemed to have been produced quote, not

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<v Speaker 1>by the artifice of human hands, but by all bearing

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<v Speaker 1>nature herself. Modern day American art historian, novelist and founder

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<v Speaker 1>of the Association for Research into Crimes Against Art, Noah

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<v Speaker 1>Charney writes in his book Stealing the Mystic Lamb quote,

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<v Speaker 1>until the altarpiece was painted, only portrait managers and illuminated

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<v Speaker 1>manuscripts contained such detail. Nothing like this intricacy had ever

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<v Speaker 1>been seen before on such a grand scale by artists

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<v Speaker 1>or admirers. Painter and printmaker Albrecht Dura praised John regarding

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<v Speaker 1>the altarpiece during a visit to gain describing the work

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<v Speaker 1>as quote a stupendous piece of religious art and scooching

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit up the historical timeline to fifteen sixty

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<v Speaker 1>two Flemish. Another Landish historian, Marcus van Wernwick, referred to

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<v Speaker 1>Jan as the creator of another Landish Renaissance masterpiece. But

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<v Speaker 1>there's actually a semi secret about the gain To alterpiece.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't painted by Jan van Ike. Well it was,

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<v Speaker 1>and it wasn't tomorr Uh. It is a work that

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<v Speaker 1>seems to have been started by Hubert van Eyck and

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<v Speaker 1>completed after his death by his younger brother Yawn. This

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<v Speaker 1>is a really big deal, if you can imagine. In

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<v Speaker 1>the art world, up until just a few years ago,

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<v Speaker 1>the idea that Hubert was a contributing artist on the

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<v Speaker 1>piece was questionable. American medieval art historian Herbert Kessler has

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<v Speaker 1>said about Hubert quote whether this Hubert van Eyke was

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<v Speaker 1>related to Jan and why in the sixteenth century he

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<v Speaker 1>was credited with the major sheriff against altar piece are

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<v Speaker 1>questions that remain unanswered, but information today is changing rapidly

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<v Speaker 1>and recently too. Hubert died in fourteen so well before

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<v Speaker 1>the altarpiece was completed, and though there are no other

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<v Speaker 1>works of art attributed to him, at least not yet.

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<v Speaker 1>When a restoration and analysis of the altarpiece began, scholars

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<v Speaker 1>identified an elaborate underlying painting that they now attribute to

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<v Speaker 1>the elder van Ike. It's believed that Hubert painted the sky,

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<v Speaker 1>a hilly landscape, some simple cities on the horizon, and

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<v Speaker 1>a meadow. Yon's hand, though is recognizable. He it's clear,

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<v Speaker 1>painted over that landscape and added a few recognizable motifs

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<v Speaker 1>to those cities on the horizon, including the tower of

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<v Speaker 1>Utrecht Cathedral and the Church of Our Lady in Bruges.

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<v Speaker 1>Some of the figures in the work appear to have

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<v Speaker 1>been painted by Hubert and left untouched by Jan, while

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<v Speaker 1>others are unmistakably done by Jan's hand. In the center

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<v Speaker 1>of the altarpiece, Hubert had painted a natural spring, which

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<v Speaker 1>Yon transformed into the fountain of life, says Great Stay,

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<v Speaker 1>art restorer and art historian at the Royal Institute for

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<v Speaker 1>Cultural Heritage in Brussels. Quote, we actually think that Hubert

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<v Speaker 1>made the underdrawing, had already started working on it in paint,

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<v Speaker 1>but that he had to stop work at a certain point.

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<v Speaker 1>Yawn then finished it off. Hubert's role in the painting

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<v Speaker 1>has always been, and continues to be, something of a mystery.

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<v Speaker 1>In eighteen twenty three, which puts us roughly four hundred

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<v Speaker 1>years after the piece was created, a Latin quatrain was

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<v Speaker 1>found under over paint on the frame of the piece,

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<v Speaker 1>stating quote, the painter Hubert van I, a greater man

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<v Speaker 1>was never found, started this work. His brother Yahn, second

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<v Speaker 1>in art, completed this arduous task at the request of

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<v Speaker 1>yas faith. He invites you on the sixth of May

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<v Speaker 1>with this first behold what was done. This message from

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<v Speaker 1>the Van Eyed brothers is inscribed in Latin on the

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<v Speaker 1>lower frames of their altarpiece and later verified by the

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<v Speaker 1>Royal Institute as original. So really we are on the

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<v Speaker 1>historical timeline kind of smack in the middle of this

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<v Speaker 1>Hubert controversy. Just recently restorers again confirmed with the quatrain

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<v Speaker 1>inscription is original to the work. According to the Royal Institute,

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<v Speaker 1>this research. Quote brings clarity to an old enigma and

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<v Speaker 1>opens the door to a new chapter in the study

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<v Speaker 1>of the Flemish primitives the search for other paintings by

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<v Speaker 1>Hubert van Night. When the Altar Piece was unveiled on

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<v Speaker 1>May sixty two, the Bishop of Ghent, Lord Vaneka, was

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<v Speaker 1>quoted as saying, quote, religious and Christian heritage is unlocked

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<v Speaker 1>here in a unique way. This is not only important

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<v Speaker 1>for the sake of the past, but even more so

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<v Speaker 1>for today and tomorrow. He continued, quote, it confronts us

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<v Speaker 1>with humans eternal quest for mystery. I am convinced that

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<v Speaker 1>many people will find personal residents here. We're going to

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<v Speaker 1>take a break right now for a word from our sponsor,

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<v Speaker 1>and when we return, we will talk about how our

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<v Speaker 1>historians argue that the Altar Piece is the first great

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<v Speaker 1>oil painting, and we'll also talk about how many brush

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<v Speaker 1>has it's had with danger. Welcome back to Criminalia. It

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<v Speaker 1>was in the mid sixteenth century when life for the

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<v Speaker 1>Altarpiece became fraught with danger, and that piece has never

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<v Speaker 1>been the same literally and figuratively ever since Napoleon once

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<v Speaker 1>stole several of its panels. The Nazis they took the

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<v Speaker 1>whole thing. The Ghent Altarpiece has been the victim of

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<v Speaker 1>more than a dozen crimes since its installation, as well

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<v Speaker 1>as several fafts. It's quote arguably the single most important

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<v Speaker 1>painting ever made. It's the first great oil painting. It

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<v Speaker 1>influenced oil paintings for centuries to come. That's a quote

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<v Speaker 1>from art historian Noah Charney, who continues saying it's the

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<v Speaker 1>first great panel painting of the Renaissance, a forerunner to

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<v Speaker 1>artistic realism. The monumentality of it and the complexity of

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<v Speaker 1>it fascinated people from the moment it was painted. During

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<v Speaker 1>the first century of its existence, things are pretty quiet

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<v Speaker 1>for the altar piece. It wasn't first threatened with acts

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<v Speaker 1>of destruction until the sixteenth century, when the Protestant Reformation

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<v Speaker 1>swept through Europe and any ornate art in churches was

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<v Speaker 1>regarded as superfluous and therefore destroyed. In fifteen sixty six,

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<v Speaker 1>the work was dismantled into its component panels and stored

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<v Speaker 1>in the church's tower to protect it from rioters who

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<v Speaker 1>were breaking into churches to smash art and objects that

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<v Speaker 1>they considered to be an example of Catholic excess and

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<v Speaker 1>idolatry for the next eighteen years. It's reported that the

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<v Speaker 1>piece was protected in a fortified room in the town

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<v Speaker 1>hall in Ghent. And now jumping ahead on the vandalism

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<v Speaker 1>and theft timeline to see Emperor Joseph the two of

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<v Speaker 1>the Holy him An Empire, which at that time encompassed Belgium,

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<v Speaker 1>demanded censure of the panels depicting naked Adam and Eve

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<v Speaker 1>in the Story of the Garden of Eden. The panels

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<v Speaker 1>were replaced with replicas that had one edition. They depicted

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<v Speaker 1>the pair wearing bear skins. By the time the piece

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<v Speaker 1>ended up in Paris after the French Revolution, the bear

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<v Speaker 1>skins were gone. Though Paris, you might be asking, when

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<v Speaker 1>did we go to Paris? French soldiers stole four of

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<v Speaker 1>the panels from the cathedral and had transported them by

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<v Speaker 1>horse drawn cart to exhibit at Napoleon's new museum in Paris,

0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:38.000
<v Speaker 1>the Loup. The panels were not returned again until eighteen fifteen,

0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.160
<v Speaker 1>when Napoleon was defeated at Waterloo by the Duke of Wellington.

0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:43.720
<v Speaker 1>And there's a name we've mentioned on this show in

0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.360
<v Speaker 1>a few different seasons who returned the piece to Saint

0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:51.840
<v Speaker 1>Babo's Cathedral. The next problem wasn't a theft, and it

0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:56.720
<v Speaker 1>wasn't vandalism. It was the clergy. Shortly after the return

0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:59.880
<v Speaker 1>of the altar piece, a local vicar pawned six of

0:14:59.880 --> 0:15:02.840
<v Speaker 1>the paintings wing panels. Those are those side panels we

0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:06.280
<v Speaker 1>talked about earlier to a local art dealer named Lambert

0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:10.480
<v Speaker 1>new and Heys for three thousand guilders. They were eventually

0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:14.480
<v Speaker 1>returned following public outrage in Ghent, but the legend of

0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.960
<v Speaker 1>the altar piece just keeps rolling. In eighteen twenty two,

0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:21.920
<v Speaker 1>fire broke out in the cathedral and the piece narrowly escaped.

0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.720
<v Speaker 1>Some tales of the legend of the altar piece suggests

0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:30.400
<v Speaker 1>that during the nineteenth century some panels also legally found

0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:32.560
<v Speaker 1>their way into the hands of the King of Prussia

0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:37.600
<v Speaker 1>Frederick William the Third and likely illegally obtained. Some panels

0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:41.160
<v Speaker 1>were also in the possession of the Kaiser Friedrich Museum

0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:45.560
<v Speaker 1>in Berlin. There are also some more tenuous tales about

0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:47.760
<v Speaker 1>this piece, such as this one from eighteen sixty one,

0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:51.400
<v Speaker 1>where it's suggested the State of Belgium convinced the church

0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:55.479
<v Speaker 1>administration of St. Babo's Cathedral to sell them the original

0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.760
<v Speaker 1>panels featuring the naked Adam and Eve for fifty thousand

0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:02.000
<v Speaker 1>Belgian Franks, with the intent that the panels were to

0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:08.040
<v Speaker 1>be exhibited at the National Museum in Brussels. Sure maybe, really,

0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:11.520
<v Speaker 1>where things get hairy for this piece. It doesn't come

0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:14.600
<v Speaker 1>down to which museum the work is being exhibited in

0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:18.880
<v Speaker 1>or when the hairiness of this happens when the world

0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:24.280
<v Speaker 1>goes to war. When Germany invaded Belgium in nineteen fourteen

0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.800
<v Speaker 1>during the First World War, the Belgian government feared the

0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:32.520
<v Speaker 1>confiscation of the gent altarpiece. Kennan Gabriel vanden Gein of St.

0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:36.240
<v Speaker 1>Babo's Cathedral was assigned to oversee the protection of this

0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:39.840
<v Speaker 1>important artwork. With no time to get the altar piece

0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.320
<v Speaker 1>out of the country, the story goes that the Cannon

0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:46.440
<v Speaker 1>came up with a quick solution. He requested two Belgian

0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:50.240
<v Speaker 1>ministers drop a false letter stating that the altar piece

0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:53.640
<v Speaker 1>was to be transported to England for safekeeping during the war,

0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:57.440
<v Speaker 1>and if the Germans came to collect it, they would

0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:01.880
<v Speaker 1>be given that letter. And then Vandergame arranged for the

0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.600
<v Speaker 1>secret transportation of the work in Wooden crates to two

0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:09.919
<v Speaker 1>Ghentish homes, where legend says the panels were bricked into

0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:15.760
<v Speaker 1>walls and hidden under floorboards for their safety. Vandergaid's trick worked,

0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.720
<v Speaker 1>but many locals feared reprisal by the Germans if they

0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:24.359
<v Speaker 1>ever discovered the Ghent altarpiece was missing. After the war,

0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:27.520
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen nineteen, article to forty seven of the Treaty

0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:30.840
<v Speaker 1>of Versailles between Germany and the Allied Powers stated quote

0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:35.280
<v Speaker 1>Germany undertakes to deliver to Belgium through the Reparations Commission

0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:37.679
<v Speaker 1>within six months of the coming into force of the

0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:41.800
<v Speaker 1>present treaty in order to enable Belgium to reconstitute too

0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:46.000
<v Speaker 1>great artistic works, and the first named work was the

0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:49.240
<v Speaker 1>panels of the Mystic Lamb. All panels that had been

0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:53.520
<v Speaker 1>in Germany were returned again in nineteen and some reports

0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.680
<v Speaker 1>suggest there had been damaged. That the side panels from

0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.200
<v Speaker 1>the altar piece that had been exhibited in Berlin had

0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.880
<v Speaker 1>been cut in alf vertically in an effort to exhibit

0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:06.359
<v Speaker 1>both sides of the pieces at the same time. The

0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.119
<v Speaker 1>panels were delivered again on a train decorated with the

0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.040
<v Speaker 1>Belgian flag, and the procession has been described as a

0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:15.920
<v Speaker 1>wounded war hero returning home. The piece was met by

0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:19.200
<v Speaker 1>large crowds in every city where the train passed through.

0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.760
<v Speaker 1>Church fells chimed and the national anthem of Belgium played,

0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:26.720
<v Speaker 1>and for a moment, the Ghent altar Piece was intact

0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.399
<v Speaker 1>just a moment, though, because the altar pieces biggest adventure

0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:36.399
<v Speaker 1>happened on the morning of April eleven four. That morning,

0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:40.119
<v Speaker 1>a church steward named Oscar von Buchot began preparing for

0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:43.879
<v Speaker 1>morning service, but when he arrived, he was surprised to

0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:46.800
<v Speaker 1>find that one parishioner had already made her way inside

0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:50.520
<v Speaker 1>the church, which led him to wonder why had the

0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:54.280
<v Speaker 1>church not been locked, and that is when he realized

0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.679
<v Speaker 1>that something bigger was afoot The steward ran off to

0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:01.360
<v Speaker 1>alert Kennon van Degen, who then in turn alerted the police.

0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:05.720
<v Speaker 1>As one does, church authorities panicked and rushed into the

0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:09.280
<v Speaker 1>cathedral sacristy, where the church's jewels and articles of worship

0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:12.760
<v Speaker 1>were kept, and it seemed everything was in place, but

0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:17.119
<v Speaker 1>upon closer look they realized that thieves had stolen two

0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:21.120
<v Speaker 1>panels of the gent altarpiece, one a depiction of St.

0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:25.120
<v Speaker 1>John the Baptist and another depicting an equestrian scene known

0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:29.320
<v Speaker 1>as the Just Judges. Some historians report that there was

0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:33.040
<v Speaker 1>a note written in French stating quote taken from Germany

0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:36.000
<v Speaker 1>by the Treaty of Versailles, and that had been left

0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:40.760
<v Speaker 1>on the frame. Ghent Police Commissioner Antoine Lesterburg came to

0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:44.760
<v Speaker 1>the scene for the initial investigation, but frankly, that investigation

0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:48.080
<v Speaker 1>was a joke. The police didn't clear the gathering crowd

0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:51.159
<v Speaker 1>out of the chapel, they didn't seal off the crime scene.

0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.800
<v Speaker 1>In fact, they didn't try to photograph the crime scene

0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:58.680
<v Speaker 1>or look for fingerprints or footprints or any kind of clues.

0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:02.560
<v Speaker 1>There been another theft earlier that same night at a

0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:06.359
<v Speaker 1>cheese shop across the street, and the commissioner had made

0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:14.360
<v Speaker 1>that investigation their priority. Guda is my priority. Listen I understand.

0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:22.120
<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh, I get it. It's right across

0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:26.320
<v Speaker 1>the street. He can watch both. She's is very important.

0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:32.840
<v Speaker 1>Nineteen days after this theft, the Bishop of Ghent and

0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:36.639
<v Speaker 1>Ray Joseph Copet received the first of thirteen ransom notes,

0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:40.560
<v Speaker 1>all signed with the letters d U A. The first,

0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:44.320
<v Speaker 1>delivered in a green envelope, demanded one million Belgian franks.

0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:47.879
<v Speaker 1>The note read quote it is our privilege to inform

0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:50.320
<v Speaker 1>you that we possessed the two paintings by Van Knight,

0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:53.879
<v Speaker 1>which were stolen from the cathedral of your city. We

0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:56.280
<v Speaker 1>feel that it is better not to explain to you

0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.639
<v Speaker 1>by what dramatic events we now possessed these pearls. It

0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:04.160
<v Speaker 1>happened in so incoherent a manner that the current location

0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:06.800
<v Speaker 1>of the two pieces is known only to one of us.

0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:10.040
<v Speaker 1>This fact is the only thing that should concern you

0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:15.399
<v Speaker 1>because of its terrifying implications. The ransom request was cash

0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:18.399
<v Speaker 1>with no traceable serial numbers, wrapped in brown paper and

0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:22.000
<v Speaker 1>sealed with the insignia of the diocese. We understand the

0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:25.720
<v Speaker 1>note read quote that the demanded amount is high, but

0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:28.600
<v Speaker 1>a million can be regained, whereas a van Nyke can

0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:32.200
<v Speaker 1>never be painted again. If the church refused to pay

0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:36.800
<v Speaker 1>the ransom, the thieves promised to destroy those panels. If

0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:39.760
<v Speaker 1>he agreed with the deal, the bishop was asked to

0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:43.480
<v Speaker 1>publish an ad in the classified section of the local newspaper,

0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:47.119
<v Speaker 1>La damne U that means the Latest Hour, stating the

0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:51.160
<v Speaker 1>following quote, d u A in agreement with the authorities,

0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:57.040
<v Speaker 1>we accept your propositions totally. Crown Prosecutor that's a state prosecutor.

0:21:57.160 --> 0:22:00.960
<v Speaker 1>Franz Daheim stepped in to lead the ransom negotiations and

0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:04.480
<v Speaker 1>his stance was ah, he did not plan on giving

0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:08.199
<v Speaker 1>the thieves a dime. The Belgian government felt the same.

0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:12.760
<v Speaker 1>Dheim advised the bishop to place a classified ad, telling

0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:18.800
<v Speaker 1>the Ransomers instead that their proposition was quote exaggerated. There

0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:20.960
<v Speaker 1>was some back and forth on this, and we're not

0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:25.240
<v Speaker 1>sure what was said until May, when the bishop received

0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:28.240
<v Speaker 1>a third note from the Ransomers stating quote, we have

0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:31.840
<v Speaker 1>read your answer in the paper of May and take

0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:36.480
<v Speaker 1>full note of your obligations, observe them conscientiously, and we

0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:39.840
<v Speaker 1>will preserve ours as a show of good faith. They

0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:42.680
<v Speaker 1>had included a receipt for luggage storage in the Brussels

0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:46.840
<v Speaker 1>North station. At station when authorities claimed that receipt, the

0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:50.320
<v Speaker 1>storage clerk handed over a large flat package wrapped in

0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:54.240
<v Speaker 1>black wax paper, which turned out to be the panel

0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:57.440
<v Speaker 1>of Saint John the Baptist. No way right, I mean it.

0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:02.439
<v Speaker 1>Actually they came through on that. The clerk recalled. The

0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:04.920
<v Speaker 1>person who had delivered the package was a man about

0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:08.800
<v Speaker 1>fifty years old who had appointed Beard police. They'll remained

0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:11.760
<v Speaker 1>baffled about the identity of the thieves as well as

0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:16.679
<v Speaker 1>the location of the remaining missing painting. The ransom story

0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:19.880
<v Speaker 1>going forward from here kind of varies a little bit

0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:23.440
<v Speaker 1>depending on who tells it, but it generally goes like this.

0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:28.399
<v Speaker 1>An anonymous man sat inside the confessional booth at the

0:23:28.480 --> 0:23:32.159
<v Speaker 1>Church of Saint Laurentius in Antwerp, Belgium, and confessed to

0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:36.679
<v Speaker 1>nothing whatsoever. The man was there to talk to the priest,

0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:39.560
<v Speaker 1>Father Henri may la Pass, and asked him a favor.

0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:44.440
<v Speaker 1>A prominent Belgium family he said, needed special letters delivered

0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:47.440
<v Speaker 1>in secret, and would it be possible for the church

0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:50.960
<v Speaker 1>to help with the delivery. The priest agreed to help,

0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:54.360
<v Speaker 1>and though he may not have realized it, he had

0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:56.520
<v Speaker 1>just agreed to be the person to hand over the

0:23:56.640 --> 0:24:00.960
<v Speaker 1>ransom money for the just judge's payamel. On June one,

0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:04.199
<v Speaker 1>another letter arrived at the bishop's residence explaining how the

0:24:04.200 --> 0:24:07.440
<v Speaker 1>priest would be part of the ransom plan. Quote, we

0:24:07.520 --> 0:24:10.520
<v Speaker 1>ask you to personally hand over the package that contains

0:24:10.600 --> 0:24:14.639
<v Speaker 1>our commission to Father may Lepas San Laurentius Church, Antwerp.

0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:17.919
<v Speaker 1>You could let him know that it concerns a restitution

0:24:17.960 --> 0:24:21.080
<v Speaker 1>of papers and letters involving the honor of one of

0:24:21.119 --> 0:24:25.840
<v Speaker 1>the most dignified families. Inside this letter was a vertically

0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:28.680
<v Speaker 1>torn page from a newspaper that was to be used

0:24:28.720 --> 0:24:32.160
<v Speaker 1>as a sort of key for identification and for the transaction.

0:24:34.240 --> 0:24:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Dehim went along with this ransom plan, despite the fact

0:24:36.880 --> 0:24:38.800
<v Speaker 1>that earlier we said he didn't want anything to do

0:24:38.880 --> 0:24:42.520
<v Speaker 1>with it. He wrapped money in brown paper and stamped

0:24:42.520 --> 0:24:45.600
<v Speaker 1>it with the seal following the demands. He also gave

0:24:45.640 --> 0:24:49.520
<v Speaker 1>Father may Lepass the vertical strip of newspaper, and the

0:24:49.600 --> 0:24:53.359
<v Speaker 1>priest did the deed. On June fourteenth, a taxi driver

0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:55.680
<v Speaker 1>drove up to the rectory, stating he was there to

0:24:55.720 --> 0:24:58.439
<v Speaker 1>pick up a parcel. The men verified each other with

0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:00.960
<v Speaker 1>the torn newspaper and the some money was given to

0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:04.200
<v Speaker 1>the driver, who then drove away. But the package that

0:25:04.280 --> 0:25:08.520
<v Speaker 1>Daheim had prepared didn't actually contain the requested amount of

0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:13.280
<v Speaker 1>one million Belgian francs. The priest unknowingly delivered only twenty

0:25:13.280 --> 0:25:16.879
<v Speaker 1>five thousand Belgian francs, and that's when the bishop began

0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:21.000
<v Speaker 1>receiving a series of indignant letters from an incensed ransomer,

0:25:21.000 --> 0:25:23.640
<v Speaker 1>who was furious about the fact that the promised one

0:25:23.720 --> 0:25:28.600
<v Speaker 1>million Belgian francs had not been received of the negotiations.

0:25:28.640 --> 0:25:33.720
<v Speaker 1>They wrote, quote, it is incomprehensible. We risked our lives

0:25:33.800 --> 0:25:35.960
<v Speaker 1>to come into possession of these two jewels, and we

0:25:36.080 --> 0:25:38.840
<v Speaker 1>keep thinking that what we ask is not excessive or

0:25:38.880 --> 0:25:43.399
<v Speaker 1>impossible to realize. So basically, they were angry that they

0:25:43.440 --> 0:25:46.040
<v Speaker 1>went through all the troubles to steal art and for

0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:51.080
<v Speaker 1>what nothing then getting nothing. Well, we've seen the word

0:25:51.440 --> 0:25:55.960
<v Speaker 1>difficult used to describe communication between the parties. After this happened,

0:25:56.480 --> 0:25:59.960
<v Speaker 1>the final note from the perpetrators arrived on October one.

0:26:00.960 --> 0:26:03.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean I stole your stuff. I took a lot

0:26:03.359 --> 0:26:06.000
<v Speaker 1>of risk. You really owe me, you really should pay me.

0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:12.919
<v Speaker 1>It's quite a stance, it was, I think so. But

0:26:13.080 --> 0:26:18.439
<v Speaker 1>then after six weeks of silence, something unexpected happened. On November,

0:26:19.920 --> 0:26:24.720
<v Speaker 1>fifty seven year old Arsin god d'artier, a stout stockbroker

0:26:24.720 --> 0:26:28.720
<v Speaker 1>with a curly waxed mustache, collapsed shortly after giving a

0:26:28.760 --> 0:26:31.239
<v Speaker 1>speech at a meeting of the local chapter of the

0:26:31.280 --> 0:26:36.080
<v Speaker 1>Catholic political Party in Dendermond, Belgium. Our Sin was the

0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:38.960
<v Speaker 1>owner of a small bank office in Veteran and was

0:26:39.080 --> 0:26:43.320
<v Speaker 1>generally considered to be a respectable and well healed man,

0:26:44.320 --> 0:26:48.200
<v Speaker 1>but on his deathbed, he summoned George da Vos, his lawyer,

0:26:48.520 --> 0:26:51.879
<v Speaker 1>and whispered to him quote, I alone know where the

0:26:51.920 --> 0:26:55.439
<v Speaker 1>mystic lamb is. The information is in the drawer on

0:26:55.480 --> 0:26:58.560
<v Speaker 1>the right of my writing table, in an envelope marked

0:26:58.720 --> 0:27:03.280
<v Speaker 1>mutu Alite. His lawyer followed instructions. He drove to our

0:27:03.359 --> 0:27:06.359
<v Speaker 1>Sins home. It was only about eight miles outside of Ghent,

0:27:06.800 --> 0:27:10.320
<v Speaker 1>and inside he headed towards the study. At the desk,

0:27:10.400 --> 0:27:14.359
<v Speaker 1>he picked up a folder labeled Mutualite, and within he

0:27:14.400 --> 0:27:17.040
<v Speaker 1>found copies of the thirteen ransom notes that had been

0:27:17.080 --> 0:27:21.520
<v Speaker 1>sent to Bishop Copieter. There was also a final unsent

0:27:21.680 --> 0:27:26.119
<v Speaker 1>note containing a semi clue about the stolen panels whereabouts,

0:27:26.160 --> 0:27:29.399
<v Speaker 1>stating quote, I am the only one in this world

0:27:29.480 --> 0:27:32.840
<v Speaker 1>who knows the places where the just judges rest. It

0:27:33.000 --> 0:27:36.080
<v Speaker 1>rests in a place where neither I nor anybody else

0:27:36.440 --> 0:27:39.520
<v Speaker 1>can take it away without arousing the attention of the public.

0:27:41.160 --> 0:27:45.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean that sure narrows things down a whole bunch. Yeah,

0:27:45.840 --> 0:27:51.880
<v Speaker 1>it's somewhere in public. DeVos failed to alert authorities about

0:27:51.880 --> 0:27:56.400
<v Speaker 1>our sens deathbed confession for a month. Instead, he met

0:27:56.440 --> 0:28:00.360
<v Speaker 1>with four legal colleagues, a district attorney to Court of Appeals,

0:28:00.400 --> 0:28:03.680
<v Speaker 1>Presidents and Franz d Him, the Crown prosecutor who you'll

0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:08.040
<v Speaker 1>recognize from earlier in the ransom negotiations, to begin their

0:28:08.080 --> 0:28:13.440
<v Speaker 1>own investigation. The reason for excluding authorities remains a mystery,

0:28:13.480 --> 0:28:16.399
<v Speaker 1>but ultimately the lot of lawyers didn't turn up much

0:28:16.640 --> 0:28:19.560
<v Speaker 1>at all. Our Son had a fake passport under the

0:28:19.640 --> 0:28:23.560
<v Speaker 1>name Van Dam and they also found the typewriter assumed

0:28:23.600 --> 0:28:27.000
<v Speaker 1>to have been used to type the ransom notes. Instead

0:28:27.040 --> 0:28:31.520
<v Speaker 1>of securing the typewriter as evidence, the men instead used

0:28:31.560 --> 0:28:35.560
<v Speaker 1>it to write their reports. They found that days after

0:28:35.560 --> 0:28:38.160
<v Speaker 1>the initial heist, our Son had opened a new bank

0:28:38.200 --> 0:28:42.880
<v Speaker 1>account and deposited ten thousand Belgian francs. They also discovered

0:28:42.880 --> 0:28:46.080
<v Speaker 1>a key, which they eventually figured out unlocked the roof

0:28:46.160 --> 0:28:52.000
<v Speaker 1>loft of St. Babo's Cathedral. Police neglected to interview Divaz.

0:28:52.520 --> 0:28:56.040
<v Speaker 1>They also failed to report that confession to the diocese

0:28:56.520 --> 0:29:01.320
<v Speaker 1>for another four months. Authorities all so failed to interview

0:29:01.360 --> 0:29:04.440
<v Speaker 1>a woman who told local newspapers that she had seen

0:29:04.520 --> 0:29:07.400
<v Speaker 1>lights flickering inside the chapel on the night of the theft.

0:29:07.880 --> 0:29:11.840
<v Speaker 1>There is so much they did not do. They never

0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:15.200
<v Speaker 1>examined the ransom letters. They never bothered to talk to

0:29:15.240 --> 0:29:17.680
<v Speaker 1>the men who were with our Sin the day he died.

0:29:18.440 --> 0:29:23.640
<v Speaker 1>Authorities did, however, eventually get around to interviewing our Sin's wife,

0:29:24.080 --> 0:29:26.640
<v Speaker 1>and she admitted that her husband had made some strange

0:29:26.720 --> 0:29:30.920
<v Speaker 1>comments about the gent altarpiece after the panel heist had happened,

0:29:31.360 --> 0:29:34.240
<v Speaker 1>sharing that he once told her quote, if I had

0:29:34.280 --> 0:29:36.520
<v Speaker 1>to go looking for the panel, I would look on

0:29:36.560 --> 0:29:39.720
<v Speaker 1>the outside of St. Babo. I wouldn't look so far.

0:29:40.320 --> 0:29:42.560
<v Speaker 1>If they let me search for it, I'd stay in

0:29:42.600 --> 0:29:48.120
<v Speaker 1>the vicinity of the cathedral. On another occasion, she stated

0:29:48.160 --> 0:29:50.280
<v Speaker 1>that she had heard him say something about the painting

0:29:50.320 --> 0:29:56.720
<v Speaker 1>being moved but not stolen. Decades later, another investigator also

0:29:56.760 --> 0:29:59.360
<v Speaker 1>discovered that our Sin had made a similar statement to

0:29:59.400 --> 0:30:03.360
<v Speaker 1>a Fellows stockbroker, saying that quote, if you move something,

0:30:03.840 --> 0:30:09.920
<v Speaker 1>it is not stolen. Well, our sent did become the

0:30:09.960 --> 0:30:12.880
<v Speaker 1>prime suspect in the case, at least for the local police,

0:30:12.920 --> 0:30:16.040
<v Speaker 1>but it took a super long time for that to happen,

0:30:16.600 --> 0:30:20.040
<v Speaker 1>and no one could figure out his motive. And remember,

0:30:20.120 --> 0:30:24.040
<v Speaker 1>he had since passed away too. It's aren't historian Charnie

0:30:24.040 --> 0:30:28.040
<v Speaker 1>who suggests a theory that a group of wealthy Catholic investors,

0:30:28.040 --> 0:30:31.360
<v Speaker 1>with the help of local police and church authorities perhaps

0:30:31.520 --> 0:30:35.200
<v Speaker 1>stole the paintings in hopes that Belgium's government would pay

0:30:35.280 --> 0:30:39.520
<v Speaker 1>ransom for them. The theory continues that maybe why ourson

0:30:39.680 --> 0:30:43.320
<v Speaker 1>never spoke of the Just Judge's panel as being stolen,

0:30:43.880 --> 0:30:46.600
<v Speaker 1>Maybe it wasn't it was safe to him among his

0:30:46.680 --> 0:30:50.760
<v Speaker 1>fellow churchgoers. As a patron of the Catholic political party,

0:30:50.800 --> 0:30:52.960
<v Speaker 1>he would have had special access to people of rank

0:30:53.000 --> 0:30:56.240
<v Speaker 1>and influence within the church. In fact, he had attended

0:30:56.280 --> 0:31:00.440
<v Speaker 1>the same school as Bishop Copieter as kids. Any though

0:31:00.600 --> 0:31:04.440
<v Speaker 1>disagree that the wealthy and devout stockbroker would have resorted

0:31:04.440 --> 0:31:07.880
<v Speaker 1>to extortion. He was involved with his local church and

0:31:08.000 --> 0:31:10.920
<v Speaker 1>had co founded a Christian health service. He was a

0:31:11.040 --> 0:31:15.360
<v Speaker 1>known philanthropist who helped run two Catholic charities. His past

0:31:15.480 --> 0:31:17.760
<v Speaker 1>as a sexton left him with good relations with the

0:31:17.800 --> 0:31:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Diocese of Ghent, and when it came to the ransom,

0:31:21.120 --> 0:31:23.720
<v Speaker 1>some experts wonder why he'd ask for ransom when he

0:31:23.760 --> 0:31:28.200
<v Speaker 1>died with three million Belgian francs in the bank. For decades,

0:31:28.400 --> 0:31:32.440
<v Speaker 1>theories and speculations about the possible thief and the possible

0:31:32.520 --> 0:31:36.680
<v Speaker 1>hiding place of the Just Judges painting have regularly emerged,

0:31:36.680 --> 0:31:42.000
<v Speaker 1>but still today, investigators are empty handed, but there is

0:31:42.040 --> 0:31:45.400
<v Speaker 1>a man. Carol Mortier was chief of the Ghent Police

0:31:45.440 --> 0:31:50.000
<v Speaker 1>from nineteen seventy four to and he estimates he's been

0:31:50.040 --> 0:31:54.760
<v Speaker 1>contacted about more than three hundred fifty possible locations for

0:31:54.840 --> 0:31:58.640
<v Speaker 1>where to find the judges panel. None of those hundreds

0:31:58.640 --> 0:32:02.320
<v Speaker 1>of tips have been correct. St. Babo's cathedral has been

0:32:02.320 --> 0:32:05.680
<v Speaker 1>searched at least six times since the early nineteen forties,

0:32:05.720 --> 0:32:09.720
<v Speaker 1>but nothing has turned up. Mortier once supervised a partial

0:32:09.960 --> 0:32:12.520
<v Speaker 1>X ray of the cathedral to the depth of roughly

0:32:12.600 --> 0:32:16.480
<v Speaker 1>thirty three feet or ten meters, but also found nothing,

0:32:17.320 --> 0:32:24.080
<v Speaker 1>and in amateur detective exhumed he illegally dug up our

0:32:24.160 --> 0:32:28.240
<v Speaker 1>sins skull and questioned it during a seance. You won't

0:32:28.240 --> 0:32:30.640
<v Speaker 1>be surprised that he got no new information there either.

0:32:32.160 --> 0:32:35.800
<v Speaker 1>Though he's no longer an active officer, Mortier continues to

0:32:35.880 --> 0:32:40.440
<v Speaker 1>hunt for that lost panel as his investigation plays out.

0:32:40.520 --> 0:32:44.480
<v Speaker 1>He has suggested our Sin could not have acted alone. First.

0:32:44.800 --> 0:32:47.040
<v Speaker 1>It turns out he had a vision problem that made

0:32:47.040 --> 0:32:48.640
<v Speaker 1>it difficult for him to see in the dark, and

0:32:48.680 --> 0:32:51.400
<v Speaker 1>he probably would not have been capable of carrying out

0:32:51.400 --> 0:32:53.560
<v Speaker 1>an art heist in a cathedral in the middle of

0:32:53.640 --> 0:32:57.920
<v Speaker 1>the night. Mortier also suggested that the judge's panel taken

0:32:57.920 --> 0:33:02.040
<v Speaker 1>from the altarpieces framework was so high off the ground

0:33:02.200 --> 0:33:04.440
<v Speaker 1>that thieves would have needed a ladder to reach it

0:33:04.640 --> 0:33:08.000
<v Speaker 1>and at least two people to remove it. He concluded

0:33:08.040 --> 0:33:11.080
<v Speaker 1>that one of the four church custodians was likely involved,

0:33:12.000 --> 0:33:14.400
<v Speaker 1>even if it was only just to provide a ladder.

0:33:15.720 --> 0:33:18.760
<v Speaker 1>But Mortier has met with a lot of obstacles during

0:33:18.800 --> 0:33:24.160
<v Speaker 1>his investigation. For instance, the church. The church granted him

0:33:24.200 --> 0:33:27.840
<v Speaker 1>access to six hundred pages of archival material relating to

0:33:27.880 --> 0:33:32.640
<v Speaker 1>the altarpiece, but those pages don't contain any content for

0:33:32.680 --> 0:33:37.280
<v Speaker 1>the years between nineteen thirty four and nine, the exact

0:33:37.480 --> 0:33:40.760
<v Speaker 1>period of time Mortier and all of us want to

0:33:40.800 --> 0:33:44.080
<v Speaker 1>know more about. That kind of sounds a little like

0:33:44.120 --> 0:33:47.240
<v Speaker 1>a conspiracy, but really it also seems like much of

0:33:47.280 --> 0:33:52.320
<v Speaker 1>this heist investigation was just really sloppily conducted, or maybe

0:33:52.400 --> 0:33:56.240
<v Speaker 1>it was a conspiracy. Who were we to say, We're

0:33:56.240 --> 0:33:58.240
<v Speaker 1>going to take a break for a word from our sponsor,

0:33:58.320 --> 0:34:00.480
<v Speaker 1>and when we're back, we will talk about how the

0:34:00.520 --> 0:34:17.359
<v Speaker 1>altarpiece survived the Second World War. Welcome back to Criminalia.

0:34:18.360 --> 0:34:22.160
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk more about that. Just judges panel but first,

0:34:22.320 --> 0:34:24.960
<v Speaker 1>let's talk about how the thief from the Chief Shop

0:34:25.560 --> 0:34:29.120
<v Speaker 1>spilled the beads on the perpetrators, or at least tried to.

0:34:30.360 --> 0:34:34.360
<v Speaker 1>There are handful of colorful theories surrounding the laws of

0:34:34.440 --> 0:34:38.680
<v Speaker 1>the Just Judges panel. Some point to police collusion. Some

0:34:38.800 --> 0:34:41.240
<v Speaker 1>say the painting is buried in the tomb of Albert

0:34:41.280 --> 0:34:44.800
<v Speaker 1>the First near Brussels. Some say there's a secret code

0:34:44.920 --> 0:34:48.200
<v Speaker 1>hidden in the ransom notes. I have been confronted with

0:34:48.239 --> 0:34:53.400
<v Speaker 1>the wildest theories. Mortier once said, over decades he's collected

0:34:53.440 --> 0:34:56.880
<v Speaker 1>so much information on the Just Judges heist that it

0:34:57.080 --> 0:35:00.880
<v Speaker 1>took up a reported twenty six ft of filing space.

0:35:02.080 --> 0:35:06.480
<v Speaker 1>It's bigger than the piece itself. He He is also

0:35:06.520 --> 0:35:11.480
<v Speaker 1>responsible for discovering archived files on Caesar Ericus, the perpetrator

0:35:11.680 --> 0:35:15.839
<v Speaker 1>stealing cheese the night of the Vannyke theft. Caesar had

0:35:15.840 --> 0:35:18.719
<v Speaker 1>originally recognized both of the men he'd seen at the

0:35:18.719 --> 0:35:21.600
<v Speaker 1>cathedral that night. The cheese shop he robbed, remember, may

0:35:21.640 --> 0:35:24.400
<v Speaker 1>have just been as close as across the street. He

0:35:24.440 --> 0:35:26.600
<v Speaker 1>saw a large man in an overcoat pacing by the

0:35:26.640 --> 0:35:29.320
<v Speaker 1>side of a large black sedan. He saw a second

0:35:29.320 --> 0:35:31.560
<v Speaker 1>man emerge from the church with a plank tucked under

0:35:31.640 --> 0:35:34.840
<v Speaker 1>his arm, but the police didn't look into his statement.

0:35:35.719 --> 0:35:39.680
<v Speaker 1>In seven, Caesar revealed at least one of their identities

0:35:39.760 --> 0:35:43.959
<v Speaker 1>during his plea bargain, a man named Pillardoor, prim known

0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:49.520
<v Speaker 1>local smuggler. Sure there's evidence the second person may have

0:35:49.640 --> 0:35:54.080
<v Speaker 1>been Go d'artier. His involvement in the story remains really interesting,

0:35:54.280 --> 0:35:57.440
<v Speaker 1>and yet it's still an open case, and Eric Is

0:35:58.080 --> 0:36:01.040
<v Speaker 1>could have just been naming names to shortened his own sentence.

0:36:01.080 --> 0:36:04.360
<v Speaker 1>We don't know. Regardless, though, the police never wrote a

0:36:04.400 --> 0:36:06.640
<v Speaker 1>second name down in their report and never follow it

0:36:06.719 --> 0:36:10.399
<v Speaker 1>up on the prem league. During the Second World War,

0:36:10.560 --> 0:36:13.640
<v Speaker 1>the piece was once again in high danger of looting.

0:36:14.520 --> 0:36:17.760
<v Speaker 1>Joseph Garbel's, the Minister of Propaganda for the Nazi government

0:36:17.760 --> 0:36:20.800
<v Speaker 1>of the Third Reich, assigned Heinrich Khone of the Nazi

0:36:20.920 --> 0:36:25.279
<v Speaker 1>Art Protection Department to search for this lost work. Khen

0:36:25.440 --> 0:36:29.719
<v Speaker 1>traveled to Gainst to interview our Sin d'artier's family, as

0:36:29.760 --> 0:36:34.160
<v Speaker 1>well as George de Vos. Says historian Charney quote, this

0:36:34.239 --> 0:36:36.840
<v Speaker 1>may sound very silly, but in fact, the Nazis and

0:36:36.920 --> 0:36:40.759
<v Speaker 1>Hitler in particular, were absolutely convinced that the occult and

0:36:40.800 --> 0:36:44.920
<v Speaker 1>the supernatural was real and They believed the Gainst altarpiece

0:36:44.960 --> 0:36:47.520
<v Speaker 1>with some sort of mystical treasure map that could show

0:36:47.560 --> 0:36:51.920
<v Speaker 1>them the location of religious relics, including the Arma Christie

0:36:51.960 --> 0:36:54.840
<v Speaker 1>that's the crown of Thorns, the spear of Destiny, and

0:36:54.960 --> 0:36:58.680
<v Speaker 1>other instruments in the biblical story of the Crucifixion of Jesus.

0:37:00.080 --> 0:37:03.239
<v Speaker 1>Cone went to work and his investigation concluded that the

0:37:03.280 --> 0:37:06.840
<v Speaker 1>panel had originally been hidden on site, but he also

0:37:06.960 --> 0:37:11.680
<v Speaker 1>reported it was moved and before his arrival and intentionally

0:37:11.840 --> 0:37:16.560
<v Speaker 1>to keep it out of his hands. In con seventy

0:37:16.640 --> 0:37:19.000
<v Speaker 1>six page file on his search for the panel, it

0:37:19.120 --> 0:37:22.160
<v Speaker 1>was clear he had been convinced the panel was hidden

0:37:22.320 --> 0:37:27.000
<v Speaker 1>at the cathedral. Globo's intended the painting as a gift

0:37:27.080 --> 0:37:31.480
<v Speaker 1>to Hitler, the Cone failed to find it. While Cone

0:37:31.560 --> 0:37:35.120
<v Speaker 1>may have been looking for one panel, German occupiers of

0:37:35.120 --> 0:37:39.560
<v Speaker 1>Belgium stole the entire altar piece. The Belgian government had

0:37:39.560 --> 0:37:42.560
<v Speaker 1>dispatched the altarpiece to the Vatican for its safety, but

0:37:43.160 --> 0:37:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Italy's declaration of war led to it being unexpectedly diverted

0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:50.440
<v Speaker 1>to Pow in the French Pyrenees. It was there in

0:37:50.560 --> 0:37:53.879
<v Speaker 1>ninety two, where it was seized by German troops who

0:37:53.920 --> 0:37:56.919
<v Speaker 1>first stored it in a castle in Bavaria and then

0:37:57.040 --> 0:38:00.239
<v Speaker 1>in the Alto Sea salt mines. The salt mine was

0:38:00.320 --> 0:38:03.759
<v Speaker 1>one of Hitler's largest repositories for plundered art, and in

0:38:03.880 --> 0:38:07.759
<v Speaker 1>it were stored roughly six thousand, five hundred paintings, as

0:38:07.760 --> 0:38:12.520
<v Speaker 1>well as books, statues, furniture and jewels taken from museums

0:38:12.520 --> 0:38:16.880
<v Speaker 1>and private collections throughout Europe. These treasures were intended for

0:38:16.920 --> 0:38:21.040
<v Speaker 1>a planned Fureum museum. Hitler had the idea of turning

0:38:21.080 --> 0:38:24.640
<v Speaker 1>the city of his youth, Lens into a culture Hupstad

0:38:24.880 --> 0:38:28.520
<v Speaker 1>or cultural capital. He wanted the Ghent Altarpiece to be

0:38:28.640 --> 0:38:32.040
<v Speaker 1>part of his super museum containing the world's greatest works

0:38:32.080 --> 0:38:35.000
<v Speaker 1>of art. At the end of the war, Hitler ordered

0:38:35.000 --> 0:38:37.960
<v Speaker 1>the salt mine to be blown up. That is a

0:38:38.040 --> 0:38:41.240
<v Speaker 1>terrifying thing if you recognize how much art was in there.

0:38:41.440 --> 0:38:45.000
<v Speaker 1>But not all was lost here the explosives were not

0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:50.080
<v Speaker 1>yet rigged. Works were recovered by Allied troops in and

0:38:50.120 --> 0:38:53.600
<v Speaker 1>that included the recovery of the Ghent Altarpiece, and there

0:38:53.680 --> 0:38:57.719
<v Speaker 1>is our one reference to the monuments men. The Ghent

0:38:57.880 --> 0:39:01.880
<v Speaker 1>Altarpiece was returned to Belgium on a twenty one on

0:39:01.920 --> 0:39:05.920
<v Speaker 1>a chartered cargo aircraft and while we wish you really

0:39:05.960 --> 0:39:10.040
<v Speaker 1>wish we could say otherwise, it was anything but safe

0:39:10.040 --> 0:39:14.080
<v Speaker 1>travels for this invaluable work of arts. During the flight,

0:39:14.160 --> 0:39:16.200
<v Speaker 1>a heavy storm broke out and while the crew feared

0:39:16.239 --> 0:39:18.960
<v Speaker 1>the aircraft may not make it to Brussels, intact, the

0:39:19.000 --> 0:39:22.280
<v Speaker 1>pilot did manage to land at a small military airfield,

0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:25.800
<v Speaker 1>and after a short stay at the Royal Museum in Brussels,

0:39:25.840 --> 0:39:29.600
<v Speaker 1>the altarpiece was finally returned to St. Babo's Cathedral in

0:39:29.640 --> 0:39:35.279
<v Speaker 1>November of nineteen. Since its return to St. Babo's, the

0:39:35.360 --> 0:39:39.840
<v Speaker 1>missing panel has since been replaced with the reproduction painted

0:39:39.880 --> 0:39:44.600
<v Speaker 1>by Belgian art restorer and sometimes art forger Jeff Vandervecken

0:39:45.000 --> 0:39:50.040
<v Speaker 1>and installed with the piece in n Some detectives were

0:39:50.080 --> 0:39:56.279
<v Speaker 1>and maybe still are suspicious of Vandervecken's contribution. While it

0:39:56.360 --> 0:39:59.360
<v Speaker 1>looks on the surface like a good deed, some wondered

0:39:59.400 --> 0:40:02.000
<v Speaker 1>if it was a brilliant way to pull off a theft,

0:40:02.360 --> 0:40:06.840
<v Speaker 1>and speculation abounds. There is, though, one thing about vander

0:40:06.880 --> 0:40:12.160
<v Speaker 1>Becken's copy that everyone agrees really is extraordinarily odd. On

0:40:12.239 --> 0:40:15.040
<v Speaker 1>the back of the replica, written in Flemish, is this

0:40:15.239 --> 0:40:18.840
<v Speaker 1>cryptic poem and we quote I did it for love

0:40:19.200 --> 0:40:23.239
<v Speaker 1>and for duty, and to avenge myself. I borrowed from

0:40:23.320 --> 0:40:28.239
<v Speaker 1>the dark side. Today the pieces where it was intended

0:40:28.360 --> 0:40:31.920
<v Speaker 1>to be in the St. Babo Cathedral in Ghent, although

0:40:32.160 --> 0:40:35.560
<v Speaker 1>as an aside, it doesn't hang in its original position

0:40:35.800 --> 0:40:40.359
<v Speaker 1>and because of the altarpieces multiple dismantlings over time. Some

0:40:40.560 --> 0:40:43.840
<v Speaker 1>experts now question the arrangement of the panels and whether

0:40:43.880 --> 0:40:47.160
<v Speaker 1>they are correctly sequenced in its current form, and that

0:40:47.239 --> 0:40:52.120
<v Speaker 1>question remains unanswered. The piece is now exhibited in a

0:40:52.160 --> 0:40:55.720
<v Speaker 1>twenty ft tall climate controlled case with a one thousand

0:40:55.760 --> 0:40:59.400
<v Speaker 1>square foot interior and it's all protected by bulletproof glass.

0:41:00.080 --> 0:41:02.120
<v Speaker 1>And for those who do want to get up close

0:41:02.120 --> 0:41:05.560
<v Speaker 1>and personal with the piece, the cathedral has introduced an

0:41:05.560 --> 0:41:09.640
<v Speaker 1>augmented reality experience to God visitors throughout the space virtually.

0:41:10.440 --> 0:41:13.360
<v Speaker 1>Oh that sounds so cool ah and as for that

0:41:13.480 --> 0:41:17.960
<v Speaker 1>still missing just judges panel. Jan Yambom, current Prime Minister

0:41:18.040 --> 0:41:20.440
<v Speaker 1>of the Government of Flanders, set in a statement in

0:41:21.440 --> 0:41:24.680
<v Speaker 1>quote Jan Vanik was a genius who has been astonishing

0:41:24.719 --> 0:41:28.279
<v Speaker 1>the world for more than five centuries with his innovative techniques,

0:41:29.320 --> 0:41:33.040
<v Speaker 1>both the Magnificent restoration and the circumstances in which the

0:41:33.040 --> 0:41:37.480
<v Speaker 1>gent altarpiece can now be admired are astonishing. The splendor

0:41:37.560 --> 0:41:42.200
<v Speaker 1>of colors, the details, the lighting, everything is perfect. That

0:41:42.280 --> 0:41:46.680
<v Speaker 1>makes us proud. So even without the just judges, it's

0:41:46.760 --> 0:41:49.520
<v Speaker 1>quite something. Even the photos of I have not seen

0:41:49.520 --> 0:41:53.040
<v Speaker 1>it in person, the photos of unbelievable and it is huge.

0:41:54.080 --> 0:41:57.080
<v Speaker 1>Let's go to Belgium, exactly. It makes everyone proud, so

0:41:57.160 --> 0:41:59.880
<v Speaker 1>let's toast to it. Indeed, I am ready with some

0:42:00.080 --> 0:42:09.160
<v Speaker 1>nice hooch. The thing that I kept fixating on in

0:42:09.160 --> 0:42:11.840
<v Speaker 1>this episode, at least in my tiny mind as I

0:42:11.880 --> 0:42:14.680
<v Speaker 1>thought about how to do a cocktail, was that whole

0:42:14.760 --> 0:42:20.160
<v Speaker 1>concept of moved not stolen. Yeah. I like that you

0:42:20.280 --> 0:42:22.920
<v Speaker 1>pick that out because it's a really interesting turn of

0:42:22.960 --> 0:42:25.919
<v Speaker 1>phrase that that man kept using, right, And that made

0:42:25.920 --> 0:42:30.040
<v Speaker 1>me think about other existing cocktails and how you can

0:42:30.280 --> 0:42:33.520
<v Speaker 1>riff on them. You're not stealing them, but you're trying

0:42:33.600 --> 0:42:37.560
<v Speaker 1>something new out of them simultaneously. I have been doing

0:42:37.600 --> 0:42:41.480
<v Speaker 1>this thing where to just get better at making cocktails

0:42:41.520 --> 0:42:44.200
<v Speaker 1>on the fly, like when friends come over, Like I

0:42:44.280 --> 0:42:46.960
<v Speaker 1>kind of am focusing on one at a time to

0:42:47.040 --> 0:42:49.600
<v Speaker 1>learn how to really do it well, or to figure

0:42:49.640 --> 0:42:51.520
<v Speaker 1>out the way I like to do it. One of

0:42:51.560 --> 0:42:54.080
<v Speaker 1>the ones that I have been drinking a little, because

0:42:54.080 --> 0:42:55.640
<v Speaker 1>I also that's the good part, right you can go

0:42:55.719 --> 0:42:57.960
<v Speaker 1>to places and order their version and get a sense

0:42:58.000 --> 0:42:59.239
<v Speaker 1>of how other people do it. And one of the

0:42:59.320 --> 0:43:01.240
<v Speaker 1>ones that I have been working on trying to get

0:43:01.400 --> 0:43:03.680
<v Speaker 1>better at and learn how I want to do it

0:43:03.719 --> 0:43:06.600
<v Speaker 1>is the paloma, which has nothing to do with Belgium.

0:43:06.600 --> 0:43:10.839
<v Speaker 1>It's mostly associated with Mexico, but it is a grapefruit

0:43:10.880 --> 0:43:14.839
<v Speaker 1>and tequila drink, and I will say I struggle with

0:43:14.880 --> 0:43:17.200
<v Speaker 1>it too, but I thought maybe this would offer an

0:43:17.200 --> 0:43:20.840
<v Speaker 1>opportunity to borrow from the Paloma. I'm moving it around.

0:43:20.920 --> 0:43:24.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm not stealing, I'm moving it, making it something else.

0:43:24.680 --> 0:43:26.759
<v Speaker 1>Who do you think you are a Napoleon? And there's

0:43:26.840 --> 0:43:28.839
<v Speaker 1>no tequila in it, So I hope I didn't get

0:43:28.840 --> 0:43:31.760
<v Speaker 1>anybody's hopes up in the tequila village. But I'm gonna

0:43:31.800 --> 0:43:34.319
<v Speaker 1>make Maria real happy because there's a spirit she loves

0:43:34.320 --> 0:43:38.400
<v Speaker 1>in here. I'm calling this just moved, not stolen. First

0:43:38.400 --> 0:43:41.440
<v Speaker 1>of all, we have to do some combining here, because

0:43:41.920 --> 0:43:45.480
<v Speaker 1>one of the things in a paloma is grapefruit juice.

0:43:47.000 --> 0:43:50.640
<v Speaker 1>I find that I like a sparkling grapefruit or a soda,

0:43:51.040 --> 0:43:55.880
<v Speaker 1>a grapefruit soda, so we're not putting it in the

0:43:55.960 --> 0:43:58.640
<v Speaker 1>shaker with the other ingredients, because you don't want to

0:43:58.680 --> 0:44:01.320
<v Speaker 1>put your bubbles in a shaker, make a disaster happen

0:44:02.239 --> 0:44:04.880
<v Speaker 1>that is hard to mop up. You're gonna put a

0:44:04.920 --> 0:44:07.920
<v Speaker 1>half ounce of lemon, three quarters of an ounce of

0:44:07.960 --> 0:44:12.040
<v Speaker 1>simple syrup. Get ready to cheer, Maria because then two

0:44:12.120 --> 0:44:17.200
<v Speaker 1>ounces of bourbon. Oh yeah, okay, paying attention. Here's listen.

0:44:19.760 --> 0:44:22.399
<v Speaker 1>I have who this one is a winner, and I'll

0:44:22.400 --> 0:44:24.200
<v Speaker 1>tell you why in a moment. So you're gonna shake

0:44:24.239 --> 0:44:27.920
<v Speaker 1>that together. I went ahead and strained that into a

0:44:28.000 --> 0:44:31.960
<v Speaker 1>second glass. Then I added the grapefruit, the sparkling grapefruit juice,

0:44:32.360 --> 0:44:34.080
<v Speaker 1>which has a little bit of sugar in it already.

0:44:34.120 --> 0:44:36.480
<v Speaker 1>That's why there's it's just a sweeter version of everything.

0:44:36.800 --> 0:44:39.480
<v Speaker 1>Stir that together, and then I strained it once again

0:44:39.560 --> 0:44:42.840
<v Speaker 1>into a Collin's glass and topped it with club soda.

0:44:43.040 --> 0:44:45.360
<v Speaker 1>That's like an ounce and a half of sparkling grapefruit

0:44:45.440 --> 0:44:47.560
<v Speaker 1>juice is what goes in there. So that you don't

0:44:47.600 --> 0:44:49.200
<v Speaker 1>have a lot of space for club soda, because you

0:44:49.239 --> 0:44:50.960
<v Speaker 1>do want a lot of ice. It's like literally just

0:44:51.760 --> 0:44:54.520
<v Speaker 1>a little more smoothness dilutes it just a little. I

0:44:54.520 --> 0:44:57.600
<v Speaker 1>would say, it's only like an ounce. And then I

0:44:57.760 --> 0:44:59.560
<v Speaker 1>stuck a straw in it and I tried it and

0:44:59.600 --> 0:45:05.800
<v Speaker 1>went whole. And then I had my husband, who is

0:45:05.920 --> 0:45:07.719
<v Speaker 1>not a drinker, try it, and he was like, I

0:45:07.760 --> 0:45:09.919
<v Speaker 1>want to drink this all the time. That's how much

0:45:09.960 --> 0:45:14.400
<v Speaker 1>you can't taste the bourbon. But you can. Here's what happens.

0:45:15.160 --> 0:45:18.200
<v Speaker 1>You're not getting that harsh flavor that sometimes a bourbon

0:45:18.280 --> 0:45:20.360
<v Speaker 1>can have. You're not getting any of the heavy tones.

0:45:20.920 --> 0:45:24.960
<v Speaker 1>But somehow, when juxtaposed with that sparkling grapefruit, you do

0:45:25.080 --> 0:45:28.360
<v Speaker 1>get the things like the caramel note of a bourbon,

0:45:28.480 --> 0:45:31.759
<v Speaker 1>and you do get like that sort of more rounded out,

0:45:32.320 --> 0:45:35.960
<v Speaker 1>smoky flavor of it comes through without any of the

0:45:36.000 --> 0:45:39.600
<v Speaker 1>harshness that you can sometimes have if you're not necessarily

0:45:39.640 --> 0:45:42.600
<v Speaker 1>into drinking a straight brown spirit, because they can be

0:45:42.640 --> 0:45:46.040
<v Speaker 1>overwhelming for people. This kind of brings out all of

0:45:46.040 --> 0:45:50.520
<v Speaker 1>their most beautiful qualities while softening up the harshest parts.

0:45:50.960 --> 0:45:55.359
<v Speaker 1>And it is unbelievably delicious. I'm gonna make like I said,

0:45:55.360 --> 0:45:57.800
<v Speaker 1>the moved, not stolen, is going into my life on

0:45:57.840 --> 0:46:00.680
<v Speaker 1>a regular basis, which is fantastic, Like I've actually never

0:46:00.760 --> 0:46:03.440
<v Speaker 1>I was never sure. You say that about a bourbon base.

0:46:03.920 --> 0:46:06.680
<v Speaker 1>That's trouble. But I'm gonna make a lot of them.

0:46:06.840 --> 0:46:10.000
<v Speaker 1>So again. Here it is, top to bottom, a half

0:46:10.040 --> 0:46:12.640
<v Speaker 1>ounce of lemon juice, three quarters of an ounce of

0:46:12.680 --> 0:46:17.759
<v Speaker 1>simple syrup, two ounces of bourbon shaken strained into a

0:46:17.800 --> 0:46:21.000
<v Speaker 1>second receptacle. Add an ounce and a half of sparkling

0:46:21.000 --> 0:46:23.520
<v Speaker 1>grapefruit juice and stir that up. If you don't have

0:46:23.560 --> 0:46:27.160
<v Speaker 1>sparkling grapefruit juice or a grapefruit soda, don't sweat it.

0:46:27.160 --> 0:46:29.640
<v Speaker 1>Just use grapefruit juice. You're fine. Give that a stir,

0:46:29.800 --> 0:46:31.960
<v Speaker 1>pour it into your colin's glass, and top it with

0:46:32.320 --> 0:46:36.600
<v Speaker 1>You're only gonna need like an ounce of club soda. Delicious.

0:46:37.480 --> 0:46:39.360
<v Speaker 1>This is an easy one to do as a mocktail,

0:46:39.400 --> 0:46:42.120
<v Speaker 1>because all you gotta do is a nice heavy tea

0:46:42.160 --> 0:46:44.600
<v Speaker 1>in there in the lieu of the bourbon. And I would, actually,

0:46:44.840 --> 0:46:48.000
<v Speaker 1>if you are really feeling it, I would make a

0:46:48.080 --> 0:46:50.080
<v Speaker 1>black tea, and then I would spice it a little bit.

0:46:50.760 --> 0:46:52.600
<v Speaker 1>You could even grate a little bit if you have

0:46:52.760 --> 0:46:56.880
<v Speaker 1>vanilla into it, just a scouch. Not very much. Even

0:46:56.920 --> 0:46:59.160
<v Speaker 1>a nutmeg or something in there, again, not very much.

0:46:59.160 --> 0:47:01.480
<v Speaker 1>You don't want to make it gray any but you

0:47:01.480 --> 0:47:03.319
<v Speaker 1>can do a wonder one sub out on that, and

0:47:03.360 --> 0:47:07.280
<v Speaker 1>it is the littles. I took a really lazy shortcut,

0:47:07.719 --> 0:47:10.719
<v Speaker 1>I mean my black tea, and then I just did

0:47:10.760 --> 0:47:13.880
<v Speaker 1>a tap of don't laugh at me, I'm very basic.

0:47:14.400 --> 0:47:17.080
<v Speaker 1>And it was on hand pumpkin spot pie spice. It's

0:47:17.120 --> 0:47:19.799
<v Speaker 1>the season. It has all of those yummy flavors, and

0:47:19.840 --> 0:47:21.880
<v Speaker 1>that made a great like. I would also use that

0:47:21.920 --> 0:47:24.480
<v Speaker 1>as a seasonal something. I would serve to guess when

0:47:24.520 --> 0:47:26.800
<v Speaker 1>they come over that like if we don't want to drink,

0:47:26.880 --> 0:47:28.440
<v Speaker 1>or if there's somebody that doesn't want to have a

0:47:28.480 --> 0:47:31.560
<v Speaker 1>cocktail but wants to be in on the fun. Also

0:47:32.000 --> 0:47:38.880
<v Speaker 1>freaking delicious. Moved, not stolen. I didn't steal from the Paloma.

0:47:38.920 --> 0:47:41.319
<v Speaker 1>I just moved stuff around a little, just added some

0:47:41.400 --> 0:47:44.520
<v Speaker 1>other things. It's fine. I hope if you make this

0:47:44.560 --> 0:47:46.359
<v Speaker 1>one you love it as much as I do. It's

0:47:46.400 --> 0:47:48.799
<v Speaker 1>criminal how much I love it. I'm so proud of you.

0:47:48.880 --> 0:47:52.160
<v Speaker 1>It's drink. I'm so delighted. It always feels like an

0:47:52.200 --> 0:47:55.359
<v Speaker 1>accident when anything comes together that's utifully I know. I'm

0:47:55.400 --> 0:47:58.759
<v Speaker 1>trying to do my balancing act, trying to figure out

0:47:58.800 --> 0:48:02.600
<v Speaker 1>where to throttle back on ingredients and up some of

0:48:02.640 --> 0:48:04.560
<v Speaker 1>them to make it all balance out. But it's still

0:48:04.680 --> 0:48:07.839
<v Speaker 1>some guesswork. And this one just was like, I don't

0:48:07.840 --> 0:48:11.880
<v Speaker 1>know the Just Judges were helping from wherever they are hiding.

0:48:11.960 --> 0:48:16.279
<v Speaker 1>I think Delicious on the rooftop of was convened for

0:48:18.560 --> 0:48:21.600
<v Speaker 1>if you are helped by the Just Judges in your life,

0:48:21.600 --> 0:48:24.360
<v Speaker 1>and I hope you are. UM, I hope that's grand

0:48:24.360 --> 0:48:26.600
<v Speaker 1>for you. I also hope that you have enjoyed spending

0:48:26.600 --> 0:48:29.200
<v Speaker 1>this time with us and that you will continue to

0:48:29.239 --> 0:48:31.279
<v Speaker 1>do so. Come back next week, We're gonna have more,

0:48:31.880 --> 0:48:46.600
<v Speaker 1>more art heists and more delicious beverages. Criminalia is a

0:48:46.640 --> 0:48:49.760
<v Speaker 1>production of Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio.

0:48:50.160 --> 0:48:53.520
<v Speaker 1>For more podcasts from Shonda land Audio, please visit the

0:48:53.520 --> 0:48:56.680
<v Speaker 1>I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

0:48:56.760 --> 0:48:57.760
<v Speaker 1>to your favorite shows,