WEBVTT - Brian Moynihan 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:04.840 One of the largest and most respective banks in the 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:07.880 world is Bank of America. For the past fifteen years, 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:10.799 it's been led by its CEO, Brian and Mornihan. I 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:12.920 had a chance to sit down with him recently to 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:16.040 talk about the new environment in Washington, lower interest rates 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:18.360 and the impact on the banking community and. 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:20.919 Davos, you were asking. 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:27.840 A question of President Trump and he didn't quite answer 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:30.160 the question that he asked you a question. So the 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:33.199 question he asked you was something like, why are you 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:36.640 not banking certain groups? What is the answer? I don't 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:38.640 think he gave you a chance to really answer that question. 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:40.360 But what is the answer to that question? 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:43.960 Well, first off, the Bank of America has seventy million 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:47.159 consumer customers and millions of small businesses all over the country, 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:50.800 all over the world, and so we bank everybody. But 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:55.520 the real question was about over regulation, frankly, and so 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.840 as you look at what's happened is because the interpretations 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:04.319 aml any money laundering BSA, Bank Secrecy Act KYC, Know 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:07.640 your customer, know your customer's customer. You know, there's a 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:11.959 lot of burden upon the banking system to both report 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:16.360 suspicious activity reports and do a lot of analysis, and 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:17.920 we have to close accounts, so we can't tell people 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:20.240 why we did it, and often we're told by authorities 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:21.040 of close accounts. 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:22.400 That creates confusion. 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:25.959 Another area comes up in this discussions in a crypto area, 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:28.920 where the regulator said you can't bank crypto operating companies, 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:31.959 employees of crypto companies, et cetera. We bank everybody. So 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:33.280 at the end of the day, it's about getting these 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:35.320 regulations right now. I think it opens a dialogue about 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:36.880 how to get these regulations correct. 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:40.000 And the end of the day, we were open for everybody. 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:43.560 We serve millions and millions of Americans trallions and transactions 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:44.120 a year. 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:45.200 And we continue to do so. 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.440 Okay, So when this administration was elected, there was a 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:52.120 lot of i would say jubilation in the streets the 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:55.480 banking where all the people thought that the banking regulation 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:59.080 had been too tough under President Biden, and some people 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.960 thought that regulation be more amenable to banks. Has that 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:04.400 turned out to be the case, shed or is it 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:07.440 still too early to know and is the Banking Committee 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.200 happy with the direction that the current administration is going 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:11.359 or you just don't know yet. 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.679 If you think about the Great Financial Crisis, and Dodd 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:16.960 Frank and a lot of capital rules and quity rules 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:19.160 and all that stafe came in. There was a reason 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:21.880 for the world ri at large to be really not happy 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:25.840 with banks and non banks that became banks, Golden Sacks, Morgan, Stanley, Maryland, 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:28.440 et cetera. So you could understand that when you go 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:31.520 fast forward through the fifteen years hence plus, you go 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:33.720 through the pandemic and the banking system stands up and 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:35.080 stabilizes the economy. 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:36.480 You go through the. 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.200 Regional banking crisis, the banking system steps up and stabilize it, 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:41.560 and they keep adding capital and liquidier, sort of saying, 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:44.880 wait a second, we are a source of strength. And 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:46.960 by the way, the Berican bank industry is really a 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:50.200 source of strength. So the Penland kept just swinging, even 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.840 though the reason why it had swung had stopped, and 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:55.680 so our industry was say, wait a second, why are 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:59.040 we have twenty percent more capital we did during the pandemic. 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:01.760 The risk is the same, it's just by mathematical creep 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:03.000 of calculations. 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:05.760 So many people when they talk about the Federal Reserve, 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:08.560 they wonder whether the Fed are going to increase interest 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.760 rates or decrease interest rates. But in the banking community, 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:14.840 you're often worried about the stress tests. And do you 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:18.520 think the FED has pushed stress tests to two tough 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:20.640 a limit on banks? Are you okay with the current 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:21.440 stress tests? 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:27.120 It's so the stress tests are publicly available were I 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:29.680 think the first one was twenty ten and then picked 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:31.960 up an earnest eleven or twelve, and so every year 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:34.600 you can see this report card in the bank industry's health, 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:36.240 and every year the bank industry has great health. 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:38.160 The rules kept changing. 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.720 The test, so you if you think of the last 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:43.680 four or five years, you had volatility and capital requirements 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:48.040 that were you went from fifty to seventy five basis 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.200 points up and down a year with basically tests said 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:54.560 ten percent employment, fifty downturn in the equity markets, thirty 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:56.840 percent drop in housing, thirty to forty percent drop in 0:03:56.880 --> 0:04:01.560 commercial real estate, highield spreads blown out by a thousand, 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:04.400 two thousand basis points, whatever it was. You look at 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:06.280 all it the same test produced as different results. It 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:09.520 didn't make sense. So behind the scenes, the transparency wasn't there, 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:11.160 and that's what we end up suing them on. So 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:13.400 the stress tests are a very good thing. Frankly gives 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:15.280 a state of health for thirty one banks, which cover 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:18.000 most the industry. The way the United States run was 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.600 far superior. We do stress tests every quarter, multiple scenarios, 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:24.440 and our trading book. 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:25.080 Is stressed every day. 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:26.839 So if you think about it's a good thing, it's 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:29.120 just that behind the scenes, what was happening is that 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:31.840 dials are being turned on us and the numbers were 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.040 becoming irrational to the market, and we have investors and 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.280 we have to raise capital and have capital available for 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:36.839 the industry. 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:39.640 So there was somebody there's a vice chairman of the 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:42.400 Federal Reserve who's in charge of regulating the banks and 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:47.400 so forth. That person has given up that position recently, 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:50.679 and was that something in the banking community was happy 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:52.720 with that he stepped aside or you didn't really care 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:53.880 whether he stepped aside or not. 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:55.599 Well, the ind of the day is, I think he 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:57.760 had a year left on his term, and the new 0:04:57.760 --> 0:04:59.920 administrative president would point someone for that BASI. 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:02.960 We'll get it today. 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:06.279 As when people always ask me, do you have different 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:09.320 approaches for different administrations, and you say, well, in the 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:12.159 long term, we've been around since Washington as president. So 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:15.240 if we geared ourselves up for this president, not that presdent. 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:17.560 We'd have to change forty five times whatever it is. 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:19.800 And if you think even in the foreign soil, think 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:21.960 how many different prime ministers there's been in. 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.799 England or so even in my tenure CEO. 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:26.640 So the end of the day, you run the company 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:27.920 the right way, and what we're trying to say is 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:29.039 get us to rational. 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:32.920 Gatory structure that and have it stick to the ribs. 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:36.279 If you keep swinging like this, our clients can't be 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.400 as it can't depend on us when adias. 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:43.680 So recently, another banker you probably heard of, Jamie Diamond, 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:48.880 and he testified on Capitol Hill that maybe the regulators 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:51.360 and Congress should get together and say, let's just start 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:54.640 afresh and take a look at all the banking regulations 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:56.960 from a fresh perspective, building from scratch. 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:58.640 Do you have a comment on that. Is that a 0:05:58.680 --> 0:05:59.159 good idea? 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:00.960 Or just take Consumer Bureau. 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.640 In twenty ten with Dot Frank ten or eleven, they 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:06.840 set up the Consumer Bureau. The theory was that all 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:09.800 the consumer regulatory activity would move to a new agency. 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:13.920 Guess what we still have the occ regulars consumer activity 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:16.119 start of the federal regulars consumer activity stud the FTC 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:19.000 will hit consumer activity on occasion, and you have the 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:19.719 Consumer Bureau. 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:21.400 And if you have the FDIC as regular you have 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:21.920 the FDIC. 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:26.000 You're regulated by the Federal Reserve. The FDIC the comptrol 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:28.080 of the currency. So do you spend a lot of 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:30.160 time with the regulators or you try to avoid that. 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:34.640 I'd like to spend time when they're telling us we're 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:36.320 doing good stuff. We all spend a lot of time 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.240 on I have great chief risk officer and Jeff green 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:41.200 Or who organized that for the company. All my senior 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:43.720 executives spend time with them and look the day to 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:46.279 day regulators are help trying to help us be better. 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:48.200 And we understand that we are on the road to 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:51.120 perfection as a company. And as vincelent Party said, you 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:53.400 strive for perfection next since we found that's what we're 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:55.599 trying to do. If they've got ideas for all ears, 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:01.240 simplifying the organization will allow frankly, cost to be taken 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:03.000 out from the regatory side, and we pay fees to 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:03.520 support it. 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:06.520 Uh And it wouldn't be the worst idea. 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:09.600 Now, when interest rates go up, the theory is that 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:13.160 banks can charge more for loans and therefore their more profitable. 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:15.040 And banks have been very profitable in recent years. 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.840 When interest rates go down, is that a concern to 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:21.360 banks because you have less profitability or you really don't care? 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:25.680 Well, The toughest time to be a bank with a 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:29.520 trillion two trillion dollars deposits is when interest rates are 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:34.080 zero because we have we can't charge people. 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:34.880 To store their money. 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.520 It's it's we're not like a self storage unit or 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:39.040 something like that. So at the end the day, you 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.000 have a floor on interest rates. And so when interest 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.800 rates came down, you started squeezing margins, so the loan 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:46.640 rates came down, But the deposit rates have a zero floor. 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.040 When rates move up. 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:52.080 That changes and so the zero interest checking accounts all 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:54.480 and stuff become worth more, and the loan rates go. 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.280 Up because interest rates come down. Though you're not it's 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:58.200 not going to affect. 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:01.040 Your profitability, not not a lot, because you have right 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:03.480 So you don't want Jaypale's job. It sounds like, but 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.480 suppose he called you and said, should I increase interest rates? 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:09.920 Decrease? Interest rates are holding the same? What would your 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:10.400 advice be? 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:15.920 Our team right now is basically says it would be 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.120 no further rate cuts through their forecast period, which is 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:21.880 this year next year. Inflation is coming down, but is 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:25.680 a bigger fight. An there's the dual mandate, employment, inflation, employment. 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:28.840 They're in great shape on inflation. It's been coming down, 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:31.240 it's working some way down. It takes multiple years of 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:33.800 squeeze inflation out and there's a drag on economy today. 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:36.400 And so you're seeing economic growth from three percent in 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:39.080 the last couple of quarters to two percent. We haven't 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.000 moved down to two percent our expectations. 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:42.920 They won't cut rates. 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:45.559 So let me ask you. The business that my firm 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:48.240 has been in is private equity. But now private equity 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:51.360 firms have become private credit firms as well. And private 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:55.800 credit firms they lend money, but they're not regulated quite 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:57.800 the way you are. So is that a source of 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.200 concern that we can lend money and we're not as 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:02.440 highly regulated as you are, And you're lending money but 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:03.360 you're highly regulated. 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:06.960 You know, I think I care about your firm. 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:15.960 But look in a day, the private capital has grown 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:18.160 because they can do something we can't. 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:19.800 Along a couple dimensions. 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:24.600 One is they can finance companies that may have more leverage, 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:28.360 and we are basically stopped out at six times leverage. 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:30.240 And that used to be a rule, then it was 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.080 taken back then it was a guidance, and then it 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:34.480 was like wait till we examine you so and we 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:36.480 do go above it for certain credits and stuff like that. 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:37.120 So that's one thing. 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:39.280 The second thing is the ability to bring the whole 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:43.680 capital structure, debt, equity, the mezzanine, whole nine yards. That's 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:45.480 hard for a bank because we don't engage. 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:45.920 In the equity business. 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:48.840 But on top of that, you know, we have a 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.079 trillion dollars a commercial loan commitments, a half a billion 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:54.040 plus of drawing loans. We don't fear any competitor, and 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.600 we work with those companies, including yours, to generate assets 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:56.800 for them. 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:58.480 But it's just a different style. 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:01.520 I think the the world should be concerned to make 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:06.800 sure that those enterprises making loans to you know, billion 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:09.760 dollar operating company, have the ability to work with him 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:11.760 times of stress. That that's going to be a interest question. 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:13.559 We haven't gone through a stress period with this practice 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:13.800 out there. 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:16.640 Let's talk about in your background, I am an only child. 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:19.120 You have how many siblings? 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:19.520 Seven? 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:24.920 Seven, so you know, growing up with eight people in 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:26.640 a family, wasn't that crowd at a time. 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:29.760 So I was set up to get my own bedroom 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:31.040 for the first time in my life from my younger 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:33.200 brother decided he wanted to move into the bedroom because 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:35.040 he was scared to sleep alone. Probably when I was 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:38.320 in college, his first time I ever had a bedroom 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:38.760 to myself. 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:39.560 So, yes, it was grod. 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.320 What did your father do to support eight children? See 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:44.800 him private equity or something. 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:50.040 That he was He was a research chemist for DuPont 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:54.160 and so he spent his whole life on plastics. 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:56.400 So the graduate, you know, plastics young man, my dad 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:57.600 was at So that's. 0:10:57.480 --> 0:10:58.520 What he grew up in Ohio. 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:01.280 And then you went to college in the East Coast 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.880 and at Brown. Yes, and you were the co captain 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:05.800 of the rugby team. 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:06.400 Yes. 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:09.200 And do you still play rugby or not so much? 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:11.559 I played rugby at Brown, I played rugby at law school, 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.720 and I played rugby after. It's a great sport. It is, 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:17.040 in a way the most intense. It looks like this 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:21.400 organization out there is extreme, ill organized, but it's unique 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:22.120 in that it's. 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.440 Physical and tackling, you kick, you run. 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:26.920 Everybody gets to handle the ball and you run for 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.360 eighty minutes, and so it's a very demanding game. 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:30.520 It was a lot of fun. 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:31.120 Okay. 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:35.920 So now you are the chancellor of Brown University, which 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:37.480 means the chairman of the board essentially. 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:39.040 So how do you have time for that? 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.200 I've been on the board for fifteen years and at 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:43.960 the end of the day, the chair of the board, 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:46.800 Chris Packson runs university, doesn't spect calcular job. 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:49.320 After you graduated from Brown, you went to law schoo 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:51.760 at Notre Dame, Yes, sir. Then you went to practice 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.160 law back in Rhode Island. You're from Ohio. You went 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.520 to Notre Dame and the Midwest. Why did you go 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:57.440 back to Rhode Island? 0:11:57.640 --> 0:11:59.719 Well, none of the Boston law firms would hire a 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:01.360 person from Notre Dame in law school, so I had. 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:03.880 So I ended up in a great law firm and 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:05.400 had a great short. 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:05.920 Legal career there. 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:08.080 How did you escape from being a corporate lawyer? What 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:08.640 did you do? 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:11.200 One of my mentors is named Terry Murray, who ran 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:12.520 Fleet and I was. 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:13.680 I did corporate law. 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:17.000 A lot of work I did for Fleet and then 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.400 Terry after we did a transaction called the bank Canoeing, 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:23.199 a transaction with KKR put money into the bank industry, 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:24.880 and we bought the Banknoeing and I mean you. Fleet 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.280 bought the Banknoeing And from the federal government in the 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:29.800 early nineties. 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:31.480 After the real estate crisis. 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:34.840 I'd structured that deal in a way that I'd structured 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:37.520 private equity eels for our bank private equity firm, which 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:39.800 was a thing called dual convertible per hered stock. It 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.880 converted into parent company stock or bank stock. Never been 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.360 done in the public array. Terry said to the General Council, 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:47.840 he's too smart to be a lawyer, which I never 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:49.760 figured out what the General Council thought about. He was 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:51.840 a brilliant guy, and he said, get him in here 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:53.720 and we'll figure out if he's gonna do something. 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:55.920 Work at Fleet, which is headquartered in Rhode Island. 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:57.680 I just went to work for Fleet, and I was 0:12:57.800 --> 0:12:59.920 deputy general counsel for like three months, and I went 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.800 a special project to re engineer the company and came. 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.280 And Fleet ultimately merged with Bank Boston. 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:07.120 That was the last deal I did is I was 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:10.440 a head of M and A and strategy, and Terry 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:13.400 Murray and Chad Gifford put together that deal. Chad ultimately 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:15.800 took a liking to me as a great mentor and said, 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:17.319 you got to run a business, and put me in 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.240 running a business. And we were merging two companies together. 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:24.320 And I survived and ran the wealth management business for. 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.360 If we ran the wealth manager business for the combined 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:31.480 Bank Boston Fleet, and then Bank Boston Fleet combined company 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:33.199 was sold to Bank of America. 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:35.479 But then you became the general counsel. 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:36.760 For forty days for. 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:38.640 How long? 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:40.240 Forty days and forty nights. 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:43.240 All right, So we became the general counsel of the 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:44.240 combined Bank of America. 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:48.240 Yeah, and then well then, so what happened was in 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:53.360 December of two thousand and eight, Remember we bought Marylyn 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.480 the Lehman Weekend and everything. So we were originally trying 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.199 to buy it Lehman. We said we couldn't do it 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:01.040 as a company. I was running that point the corporate 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.240 Investment Bank and other parts of Bank of America. 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:05.600 We couldn't do that. 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:09.600 And then over the weekend that's when the world became 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:13.959 very ugly, and so we bought Merrill. And then around 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:17.760 the time Merrill showed up without with a seven billion 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.080 dollar loss in the quarter, and with a lot less 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:22.760 capitainer's supposed to have, we started telling the government we 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.600 couldn't do the deal and stuff, and so Ken asked 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:27.880 me to be a general counsel because we were limiting 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:29.880 a lot of jobs, and I actually eliminated my job 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.440 and I was basically out of the company. Said you 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.480 know what, stay and become general counsel because we need somebody. 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:36.880 And from December ninth to. 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:40.000 Came the general counsel the Combined Bank of America. 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:41.760 As we as we negotiate with the government to figure 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:43.080 out how to get the Meryl deal done. 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:44.960 And then I went back in business right after. 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:47.520 But then you left after that for a while. 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:52.200 So then in early mid January of nine I took 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:54.240 over a bunch of the businesses after John Thane left 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:55.360 and went back into business. 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:56.760 And then by the end of a nine MCU. 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:59.560 Let's talk about the beginning of Bank of America. So 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:04.120 Bank America started as Bank of Italy. So who started 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:05.880 Bank of America and why did you name it after 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:07.600 Italy as opposed to America. 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.280 Well, apg And who was Italian descent, started the Bank 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:12.720 of Italy when he came to the country in San 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:16.400 Francisco to help the local the Italian community that emigrated 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.000 to San Francisco, and he became famous in the San 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:24.160 Francisco earthquakes and fires in the early nineteen hundreds by 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:27.960 setting up a barrel and starting lend money. And then 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:33.480 fast forward to nineteen ninety nine when Nations Bank, which 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:37.360 was the North Carolina Bank which is the bank the 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:41.560 bank today, and the Bank of America merged. You had 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:42.200 two good names. 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:45.600 Now on the personal side, you've been there fifteen years. 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.520 You haven't announced any time, and you might step back 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:50.800 and you're not prepared to announce that today, right, No, 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:55.320 I don't, so I'll tell you first, Okay, So have 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:57.080 you been able to convince your children to go in 0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:58.200 the banking world. 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:01.720 My oldest son's and investment b anchor for a different firm. Obviously, 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:05.800 in my uh, my middle child is a risk manager 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:09.560 for another for in financial services, and my youngers and 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.800 communications and other stuff. But they look, being a CEO's 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.480 child is not the easiest thing being a CEO's spouse. 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:19.160 And they saw me work in different ways across the years. 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:22.560 And ye, so it's their decision with their careers and 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:23.960 and it's it's nice. 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.240 My son, he's a deal doer, he's an m and 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:28.160 a type of guy. So it's it's fun. Because I 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:29.760 used to do that, I haven't done that long time. 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:33.960 So let's say ask i't ask you about this banking today. 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:39.600 Why do we need all these bank facilities, bank branches, buildings, 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:42.440 financial centers because everything is done online, it seems do 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.680 you actually have a lot of buildings? You really need 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:46.400 all those buildings you have where you have your bank. 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:50.240 This is this is the classic do as I do, 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:54.200 not as I say, Because in the day between this 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:58.280 morning when the banks open up to tomorrow morning, four 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:01.080 hundred thousand people come into a branch. So this idea 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:03.880 nobody goes to bank branch just is not true. The 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:06.480 idea nobody uses cash. We'll have about a quarter billion 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:08.600 dollars and we'll go out of our ATM machines in 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.280 the next twenty four hours, the idea, but nobody writes checks. 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:13.840 There were one hundred millions. 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:15.679 How many How many banks do you have around the 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:16.320 country an hour? 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:17.760 You have three thy seven hundred. 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:19.880 What about ATMs? You have a lot of them, We. 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:21.080 Have about fourteen thousand of them. 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.560 At the high point, you had eighteen thousand, and that's technology. 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:28.000 How has the world of technology affected the banking world? 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:32.879