Speaker 1: Break was breaking down all the biggest NBA storylines.
Speaker 2: Lord tuned in to the Heat Check.
Speaker 1: The Heat Check was just Crank, the best podcast.
Speaker 2: Covering all the drama around the association.
Speaker 3: Up next, finally, special edition, we have a very informative
Speaker 3: interview with Bill Ryder, hosted the CBS sports show Writer
Speaker 3: than You and longtime NBA writer. Bill joined me and
Speaker 3: my co host Ryan Horbot and Nick Ashew on our
Speaker 3: show bet MGM tonight. He gave a nice otterview of
Speaker 3: what's popping around the league. So let's get into it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bill, I don't want to make Bill Rider wait
Speaker 1: anymore time to get sports NBA insider Writer than You
Speaker 1: CBS Sports Radio. Yeah, if you're mad that, if you
Speaker 1: watch the show and you hated the way that it
Speaker 1: end it, feel free to jump that in. Bill. But
Speaker 1: let's start with also James Harden who is with the
Speaker 1: Sixers in camp, and Joel Embiid says he's not a distraction.
Speaker 1: Of course he's gonna say that what do we make
Speaker 1: of this situation? And where do you see this actually going?
Speaker 2: The same thing I make of I guess where a
Speaker 2: showtimes I wish it would he would just go away
Speaker 2: that was the way just to cancel his appearance in
Speaker 2: the NBA. Look, so you're right, he is going to
Speaker 2: make life as miserable as he can for that organization.
Speaker 2: He's already done this.
Speaker 3: We know this.
Speaker 2: He called Daryl Morele liar over the summer. But just
Speaker 2: talking to folks in that Philly organization, maybe their words
Speaker 2: are tougher than their actual fort two, but they say
Speaker 2: they're gonna just make him play. They're gonna wait for
Speaker 2: the price to go up. They take some strength and
Speaker 2: some some some you know, a sense of optimism from
Speaker 2: what went down with Lillard, even though it wasn't as ugly.
Speaker 2: So I think that Harden's going to be out of
Speaker 2: shape and miserable. And I think Darryl Moore and the
Speaker 2: Sixers are gonna say, politely, to hell with you, We're
Speaker 2: not trade me until we get what we want.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gonna be a saga, Bill. Absolutely. I'm curious
Speaker 3: your thoughts on the Bucks. Obviously they add Damiel Loeward.
Speaker 3: This is going to be a really explosive pick and
Speaker 3: roll type offense. But what concerns me is that now
Speaker 3: Chris Middleton again not healthy, held out of practice. New
Speaker 3: coach Adrian Griffin being very shady about what Chris Middleton
Speaker 3: is even dealing with.
Speaker 4: How do you feel.
Speaker 3: About this team if they don't have an entirely healthy
Speaker 3: Middleton for the entire year, or maybe if he never
Speaker 3: returns to what he was when he was in his prime.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, we are in an era. We know
Speaker 2: you can have a big two and get it done.
Speaker 2: But they need Chris Middleton and one executive and a
Speaker 2: guy was a long time former scouter worked his way
Speaker 2: up made the point to me that yes, as you
Speaker 2: know that they are amazing offensively, Damian Lower is a
Speaker 2: huge addition. It takes a ton of pressure on the
Speaker 2: offensive side off of be honest, and the pick and
Speaker 2: roll game could be amazing, but that backcourt defensively now
Speaker 2: is not very good. It's the point this executive made,
Speaker 2: So you've got to make that up with more offense.
Speaker 2: It's a similar model what Boston's doing leaning offensively. I
Speaker 2: think you need Middleton to be in the mix at
Speaker 2: least in the postseason, given how good the Celtics are,
Speaker 2: and I think still how many land mines there are
Speaker 2: in the Eastern Conference from other teams.
Speaker 4: What are your thoughts on Drew Holliday and his fit
Speaker 4: with Boston. I mean kind of taking over obviously the
Speaker 4: Marcus Smart role where he's, you know, a non ball defender.
Speaker 4: But what are your thoughts on Boston coming into the season,
Speaker 4: because I feel like in the East it's really just
Speaker 4: Boston and Milwaukee right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I like Drew Holiday. It's a great quite like
Speaker 2: Drew Holliday in a vacuum. I love it. And so
Speaker 2: Marcus Smart basically leader, respected guy, but did not get
Speaker 2: along this is pretty clear from the press conferences. But
Speaker 2: did not get along with Joe Mazzuola. It wasn't a
Speaker 2: good fit. The perspective in Boston is you get a
Speaker 2: bit of an upgrade from Andrew Holliday Offensively. He's still
Speaker 2: great defensively. He's also well respected. Guys around the league
Speaker 2: love him. But he's known to be easy to work
Speaker 2: with for coaches, right, He's not going to undermine you.
Speaker 2: There's a different kind of edgy. It comes out on
Speaker 2: the floor, not in the locker room. So for Holiday
Speaker 2: as a player, and frankly as a guy who's going
Speaker 2: to make life a little leader on a head coach
Speaker 2: who's under a lot of pressure. I love it. I
Speaker 2: think it's really interesting to see what Porzingis can be
Speaker 2: and what he can do, and whether or not some
Speaker 2: of the players who were moved out who are defensive
Speaker 2: focused guys, whether that's gonna hurt the Celtics as it
Speaker 2: relates to what they want to do. But we know
Speaker 2: Missoula is much more offensively inclined than he. Mayo Dooka.
Speaker 2: He leans that way. So I love the hot move,
Speaker 2: I love the Celtics, but it's gonna be really interesting
Speaker 2: how these pieces fit because this is a team that's
Speaker 2: made a game seven of the Eastern Conference Finals the
Speaker 2: last two years. They obviously made the finals a couple
Speaker 2: of years ago, and it's very they've retooled this basketball
Speaker 2: team pretty aggressively.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bill, it's not like the Celtics haven't been in
Speaker 1: this position before. The co favorites of bed MGM to
Speaker 1: win the title four to one along with the Bucks,
Speaker 1: and then you got the Nuggets the defending championship plus
Speaker 1: five point fifty. Where do you odds aside for this?
Speaker 1: Where do you stack the Nuggets up right now with
Speaker 1: some of these other teams like the Celtics and Bucks
Speaker 1: and then the Suns all of who have had a
Speaker 1: you know, pretty active offseasons.
Speaker 2: So Denver is a known quantity and they've got one
Speaker 2: of the two or three best players in the game.
Speaker 2: He's probably the best player in the game, and every
Speaker 2: year it changes. I voted for Yogus for MVP. I
Speaker 2: think they're the best team of those three that you
Speaker 2: noted because of what we know. I think it's likely
Speaker 2: that in Boston or in Milwaukee, and maybe in both,
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's gonna work really well, and they're
Speaker 2: gonna actually be a little bit higher level that obviously
Speaker 2: have to face him in the finals for that to
Speaker 2: matter in the playoffs. I love Denver, and I think
Speaker 2: there's a lot of question marks in the Western Conference
Speaker 2: makes their road easier. I'm not as high on Phoenix
Speaker 2: as other people. I know they got some depth in
Speaker 2: that trade. John Moran's gonna miss a huge chunk of
Speaker 2: the season. What is Memphis gonna be your third best
Speaker 2: player here in LA with the Lakers? Is Austin reeves
Speaker 2: out that that's the end of the world, But I'm
Speaker 2: not sure that it's a guarantee. And Anthony Davis, Anthony
Speaker 2: Humpty dumpty Davis, I know he wants to play eighty
Speaker 2: two games. I love it. It's a guy played seventy
Speaker 2: two games. Lebron's amazing, but he's one hundred and five
Speaker 2: years old, So you just sort of you go to
Speaker 2: the Western Conference. There are potential challengers, but at least
Speaker 2: on paper, nobody to me is as sure a thing
Speaker 2: as the Denver Nuggets.
Speaker 3: I'm curious your thoughts on the Dallas Mavericks because I
Speaker 3: had a healthy debate with a friend of mine earlier
Speaker 3: today because he, for whatever reason, thinks that Grant Williams
Speaker 3: and Derek Lively are gonna move the needle in terms
Speaker 3: of just the overall defense, which was terrible last year. Like,
Speaker 3: what's your thoughts overall on what this Dallas Mavericks team
Speaker 3: is going to be this year?
Speaker 2: Have you guys seen that gift where there's a dumpster
Speaker 2: on fire floating down a swollen river. Yeah, that's my
Speaker 2: perspective on the Dallas Mavericks, and really respective on any
Speaker 2: team that has Kyrie Irving, there is massive, massive, massive
Speaker 2: concern and worry that they are not going to capitalize
Speaker 2: on Luca Dodge's window. And while Luca hasn't made any suggestions,
Speaker 2: he wants to leave Dallas. We saw this year. I
Speaker 2: think the moves that are going around Eastern Conference and
Speaker 2: what's happening right now is force and Harden to stan Philly.
Speaker 2: It's all about the fear that Yiannis will be the
Speaker 2: guy that won't stay, or MB will be the guy
Speaker 2: that gets them happy and doesn't stay. And doctor GM's
Speaker 2: around the NBA. There's a hope, right if you're not
Speaker 2: the Dallas GM, then in a year or two, doncas
Speaker 2: is gonna be the guy who doesn't want to be there.
Speaker 2: And so I think Dallas has massive pressure without a
Speaker 2: roster that can make good on it. I'm not a
Speaker 2: big Kyrie irving guy, so maybe I'm swinging and missing
Speaker 2: on a level of greatness he brings to the table
Speaker 2: that I'm somehow not seeing. But the moves they've made,
Speaker 2: the team they have, the roster they have, I don't
Speaker 2: think it's very impressive. I know doncon is amazing. You
Speaker 2: guys know doncas is amazing. The guy's an incredible player,
Speaker 2: But he's not on a team that I think is
Speaker 2: gonna live up to anything remotely resembling even conference championship appearances,
Speaker 2: let alone the finals. Think they're in trouble.
Speaker 4: Bill with the Heat missing out on the Damian Lillard
Speaker 4: and missing out in the sweepstakes for Dame Lillard, there's
Speaker 4: still minus one ninety to win the Southeast. I was
Speaker 4: just like trying to make the case for any of
Speaker 4: these other teams, you know, from a betting standpoint, and
Speaker 4: you have the Hawks plus two twenty. I don't know
Speaker 4: if I fully trust them. I like the Magic, I
Speaker 4: just don't know if they're still a year away. They're
Speaker 4: eight to one, and then the Hornets and the Wizards.
Speaker 4: Could you make the case for any other team in
Speaker 4: the Southeast other than Miami this season?
Speaker 2: What's the number of Atlanta?
Speaker 4: I think plus two twenty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Atlanta is interesting if you're feeling like
Speaker 2: if you have a little gamble, right, because it's probably Miami.
Speaker 2: We know how consistent they are. It's not just that
Speaker 2: they didn't get Lillard in terms of their championship hop,
Speaker 2: but it's how much better everybody they compete with, really
Speaker 2: Boston and Milwaukee got and they lost other pieces that
Speaker 2: are important. But that is a very weak group of teams.
Speaker 2: That said, Gwynn Snyder is extremely well respected. It sounds
Speaker 2: like Trey Young wants to do the things he needs
Speaker 2: to do for Quinn in that organization. I wasn't. I
Speaker 2: think that place is a mess in terms of their
Speaker 2: limico dynamics at their front office. But Quinn's a really
Speaker 2: good coach. He's now gonna have obviously an entire training
Speaker 2: camp team in late last year, a very weird situation.
Speaker 2: So there's gonna be a surprise, and maybe it's a
Speaker 2: heat trail off a little bit, or there's injuries or
Speaker 2: emo Jimmy so emotionally can't get out there that haircut
Speaker 2: and play for me. Atlanta would be the other team
Speaker 2: Bill if.
Speaker 1: People are looking at maybe the possibility of finding an
Speaker 1: edge in like the win totals market. Right now, the
Speaker 1: Toronto Raptors are a team that's been thrown around for
Speaker 1: it feels like the last couple of years is maybe
Speaker 1: potential sellers and then what maybe there may be there's
Speaker 1: some extensions for some guys, or maybe they're gonna trade.
Speaker 1: Nobody seems to know what they're gonna do. Do you
Speaker 1: think that this is a team then finally, let's say
Speaker 1: even just come trade deadline, they finally start selling that
Speaker 1: team off or are they still committed to actually winning
Speaker 1: with essentially the roster that they have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a really good I think it's
Speaker 2: a really good question, a really good point. I think
Speaker 2: that it depends how things go, and they believe that
Speaker 2: their roster is good enough to at least compete in
Speaker 2: the second tier in the East right somewhere to four
Speaker 2: to six as happened to to try and avoid that
Speaker 2: play in. I'm not sure how realistic that is, and
Speaker 2: I do think that if the wheels come off, if
Speaker 2: things go badly, if they're not in the mix, they
Speaker 2: very well could be sellers and you can move on
Speaker 2: for most of those guys and see that team basically
Speaker 2: go into bring an assets, do what Portland's doing do
Speaker 2: to a degree with the thunder did lose a bunch
Speaker 2: of games, focus on draft picks. So depending where the
Speaker 2: total is for what's their win to over right now,
Speaker 2: like forty two, I don't even know.
Speaker 1: I think it's lower than that isn't if you guys know,
Speaker 1: it's not BETVGM doesn't happen in front of us right now.
Speaker 1: But I want to say it's actually like I think
Speaker 1: it's under that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends what it is,
Speaker 2: but I would either for me like I used to
Speaker 2: bet win totals all the time. Yeah, I would either
Speaker 2: pass on it or go under because I do think
Speaker 2: they're not gonna.
Speaker 1: Be a pirty thirty six and a half.
Speaker 2: I mean, Vegas thinks they're going to sell them right
Speaker 2: like that seems really low to me for that roster.
Speaker 3: I'm curious. I wanted to follow up with you on
Speaker 3: the Raptors because it just feels like they're a mess.
Speaker 2: Bill.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure.
Speaker 3: Massi was known as one of the better gms in
Speaker 3: the league, and now it feels like his reputation is
Speaker 3: in shambles and they're letting players walk for almost nothing.
Speaker 3: He's bringing up petty things like the lawsuit instead of
Speaker 3: addressing you know, what's going on with Pascal, and he's
Speaker 3: calling his whole team selfish and that they're not making
Speaker 3: the right decisions.
Speaker 1: Is it just me?
Speaker 3: Or is that organization kind of toxic right now?
Speaker 2: Yeah, They're not in a good place. And look, I
Speaker 2: think Massi's really People that are smarter than I am
Speaker 2: about the NBA are impressed by the guy. But pat
Speaker 2: Riley talked about the disease of more right, you win something,
Speaker 2: you start to really believe in yourself. You start to
Speaker 2: buy the headlines. They won an NBA championship. It's been
Speaker 2: a minute now. It was very impressive. But obviously they
Speaker 2: brought in Kawhi Leonard. It was a crazy spark. There
Speaker 2: were multiple injuries that were significant in that series against
Speaker 2: the Warriors that got in there. Not taking anything away.
Speaker 2: They had a crazy bounce against Philly, and I think
Speaker 2: there's just a chance that Massi doesn't understand that they
Speaker 2: got lucky and that there were some things that need
Speaker 2: to be retooled, especially when Kawhi moved on to answer quiet.
Speaker 2: And yet they're absolutely toxic. It is a miserable place,
Speaker 2: and this is part of the debate about where you
Speaker 2: bet on their win total. He thinks they're good enough
Speaker 2: on paper and that these guys aren't loaded up expectations,
Speaker 2: and in that locker room they think that he's a
Speaker 2: delusional strong but he is overestimating the roster that he's
Speaker 2: put together.
Speaker 3: Bobby Webster said Bill that they offered the most that
Speaker 3: they've ever offered for a player for Damian Lillard. Do
Speaker 3: you know what that deal was?
Speaker 2: I don't know. The Liard thing I mean, I know,
Speaker 2: I don't, and I have trouble believing that because I
Speaker 2: can tell you this from the Portland side. It wasn't
Speaker 2: personal with the Miami Heat. It really wasn't about wanting
Speaker 2: to screw over pat Riley. They wanted the most they
Speaker 2: could get, and they thought it was Milwaukee. And some
Speaker 2: of that calculation is that they think those Milwaukee it's
Speaker 2: one pick and it's two pick swaps, twenty eight thirty
Speaker 2: pick swaps, twenty nine first round pick. They don't think
Speaker 2: Annis is going to be there regardless of what happens
Speaker 2: with LOWERD in the next year or two, and that
Speaker 2: the Bucks are going to be an utter and total disaster,
Speaker 2: and that those picks are very actually extremely valuable, and
Speaker 2: whatever happens in Toronto, it's just a more desirable market
Speaker 2: than it used to be because there's a lot of
Speaker 2: guys who are international players if we know in the
Speaker 2: NBA who will play there. So I don't know, I
Speaker 2: don't know what Toronto offered, but I do know that
Speaker 2: Portland thinks that what they got from Milwaukee and what
Speaker 2: they're still getting because they're gonna move on to Malcolm Brogdon. Obviously,
Speaker 2: they traded for a holiday. They think that return is
Speaker 2: by far the best that was offered.
Speaker 4: What do you think ends up happening this year with
Speaker 4: the uh not even so much this year? Like the
Speaker 4: future of the Kings. I really like the Kings that
Speaker 4: I'm looking at the Pacific Division.
Speaker 1: They're eight to one, and.
Speaker 4: It's just like with the Suns and the Lakers.
Speaker 1: They're old.
Speaker 4: I feel like their goal is obviously to win the championship,
Speaker 4: and then I still think they're gonna use load management.
Speaker 4: You can throw the Warriors in there too, and the Clippers.
Speaker 4: What do you think about the Kings eight to one
Speaker 4: to win the Pacific? I think they're gonna be a
Speaker 4: tough regular season team.
Speaker 2: I love the kid. It's funny I did when I
Speaker 2: was talking to you guys about sort of where to
Speaker 2: Denver rank, I was trying to like, who am I trying?
Speaker 2: Who am I forgetting? I'm muscle memory to never take
Speaker 2: the Sacramento Kings seriously. It's like a part of my
Speaker 2: basketball DNA. But that's changed. I mean, that's that's a
Speaker 2: really tough team. It's a really good team. They're really young,
Speaker 2: they're well coached. They finally we think of a front
Speaker 2: offense for the first time in a generation that's well
Speaker 2: run and you're on. I think their window, or they
Speaker 2: think their window for really competing it is probably not
Speaker 2: this season, but the season after. But we've seen teams
Speaker 2: and the Warriors are one of those teams make really
Speaker 2: big leaps that are earlier than people expected. So yes,
Speaker 2: I think that's entirely possible. I have a soft spot
Speaker 2: in my heart for Golden State, largely because I just
Speaker 2: I love Steph Curry, class act, amazing player, But they're old.
Speaker 2: I don't know that. I believe Chris Paul is gonna work,
Speaker 2: and forget whether he starts, I don't know if he finishes,
Speaker 2: which is what really matters. We know Bob Myers is gone.
Speaker 2: Steve Kerr has become you talk to beat riders and
Speaker 2: folks there a little more. He's a nice guy, but
Speaker 2: a little more frustrated, maybe a little more burned out
Speaker 2: in a long term sense. I do think there's some vulnerabilities,
Speaker 2: and I think the Kings are the kind of team
Speaker 2: if things click, because they have so many young guys,
Speaker 2: and young guys tend to make big leaps in years
Speaker 2: two and three and sometimes four. The Kings are Ploys
Speaker 2: potential to be one of those teams that make it.
Speaker 1: For Yeah, it's probably a culture shock for Steve car
Speaker 1: because he's used to just dominating the NBA and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden now he's looking around going, damn it,
Speaker 1: we're not what we used to be anymore. Bill ryders
Speaker 1: CBS Bores always good to talk to you, man, Thanks
Speaker 1: for coming on.
Speaker 3: That's all the time that we have for this episode
Speaker 3: of the Heat Check. Many thanks to Bill Ryder and
Speaker 3: my crew I bet at MGM tonight. Come back later
Speaker 3: this week for an all new episode and check out
Speaker 3: the feed for past interviews and past episodes which drop unexpectedly.
Speaker 3: We're going to be doing an interview with someone from
Speaker 3: the MAVs beat give a little update on what's happening
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