1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to stuff to Blow your mind. 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Julie Douglas. J 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: What do you like to put in your witches brew? 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: A little A little frog play, yeah, rosemary, yeah, rusty garlic, yeah, 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: of course. Um hey, little crystallized ginger. Nice touch. I 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: highly recommend uh scaled dragon's a wolf which is mummy mind, 8 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: gulf off the raven c salt shark, root of himlock 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: digged in the dark course, liver of a blasheming jew 10 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: if you can get it, uh, and goll of goat 11 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: slips of you. And of course you want all the 12 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: silver in the moon's eclipse. That's just an old recipe 13 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: that I picked up. You're such as picked up from 14 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: old will there. But seeh I just get my stuff 15 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: from Trader Joe's and you're all of the earth the 16 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: witches all a Trader Joe's is really good, and I 17 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: mean everything for your scale of dragon to uh you know, 18 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: the eye of news and Baboon's blood. Yeah, they have 19 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: excellent pappoms blood. Uh. You know this, This is what 20 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: I love about How Stuff Works. Is that we can 21 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: discuss these things. We've got our own coven here, and 22 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: it really allows us to exchange ideas about witchcraft. There's 23 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: a coven at how stuff works? Yeah, like seriously or 24 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: like literally, there's a covenant how stuff works? Or are 25 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: you just talking about we throw ideas into a call drop? 26 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, sure it was just metaphorical. Yeah, sure, 27 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: of course there's not a real covenant. That would be weird. No, no, no, 28 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: it's metaphorical. All right, Well really, well, I would I 29 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 1: would imagine your your you must be needing in a 30 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,839 Speaker 1: separate space because, as we know from legends and myth 31 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: and folk tales, the classic version of the witch and 32 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: and by the classic version of which I'm not craning 33 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: this in on on on Wiccan stuff like a modern 34 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: witches of of whom I know some of. My friend 35 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: Michelle is a practicing Wiccan and to my knowledge, she 36 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: just and have a cauldron. No, no, today we're talking 37 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: about the witches that are burned in our memories and 38 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: sometimes yes, um who yeah, who have cauldrons, who are 39 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: meeting in the dark, who are plotting against Macbeth, that 40 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: are casting spells, that are hanging out with cats that 41 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: hate Dorothy, that hate Dorothy, that are dying underneath the 42 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: weight of houses that fall from the sky. Uh. This 43 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: sort of thing, the idea of the Witch is pretty fascinating, 44 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: especially when you get past sort of the the typical 45 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: Halloween idea of just cackling old crones. I mean, you 46 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 1: could we could just talk for a long time about 47 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: the about about what the Witch represents, because as I've 48 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: discussed before, I mean, the Witch is basically a monster, 49 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: the Hag, the Hag, especially if you see the Hag 50 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: as a monster or the ogress uh, appearing throughout different 51 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: myth cycles where uh. And some of this is tied 52 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: to the idea that some sort of cannibalistic, grotesque old 53 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 1: woman will come and eat your children if they don't 54 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: behave or that if you're not careful, guys, you might 55 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: be seduced by what seems like a beautiful but turns 56 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: out to be a grotesque monster. Right then sort of 57 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: the sucky best thing too, exactly exactly. And then when you, 58 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: I mean you also in the Witch, you have a 59 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: situation where it's a woman with power, and of course 60 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: that is a very interesting idea throughout a predominantly male 61 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: dominated culture where suddenly here here are women and they 62 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: have power. And what does his power mean? Is it 63 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: a threat to male dominance? And uh, I mean, I 64 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: mean make me stop, because I well, I was gonna 65 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: say that Erica John has at interesting perspective on this 66 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: from historical context. And she has a book called Witchcraft 67 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: and some poetry and fiction and some historical data and 68 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: there a few spells in that I don't know, I hope, 69 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: So I think that she actually sort of approached this 70 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: book in that manner of like, Wow, could I become 71 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: a witch myself? Even though um, she's someone who who 72 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: I think is grounded in reality and knows that she 73 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily going to start flying around. But anyway, Um, 74 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: she is the author of Fear Flying that's she's us 75 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: known of as uh. In her forward of the book, 76 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: she says witchcraft in Europe and America is essentially this 77 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: hearkening back to female divinity within a patriarchal culture. If 78 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: you insist long enough that God is the father, a 79 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: nostalgia for the mother Goddess will be born. If you 80 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: exclude women from church rights, they will practice their magic 81 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: in the fields and forests, in their own kitchens. The 82 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: point is female power cannot be suppressed, it can only 83 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: be driven underground. So this is how she places which 84 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: is really in a historical sense of Okay, what's actually 85 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: happening here, and we talk about which is when we 86 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: get away from this idea of pointy hats and broomsticks, 87 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: even though broomsticks certainly play into it, as we will 88 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: find out. Yeah, and it's interesting that you mentioned the 89 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: the necessary re emergence of the feminine deity because I'm 90 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: reminded of a series of essays that I read, and 91 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: have I known that you were going to go in 92 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: this direction, I would have would have brought that book 93 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,119 Speaker 1: with me. I'll have to put something on the blocks 94 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: about it. But there there's some interesting material in there 95 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: about depictions of Jesus Christ in medieval art, and in 96 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: some of these depictions, Christ becomes more and more feminine, 97 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: and you you actually have have varying in some cases 98 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: outright heretical. And I'm doing quotes um with air quotes, 99 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: and I figers the heretical ideas or are sometimes they're 100 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: just sort of quasi heretical, where individuals end up worshiping 101 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: a more female version of Christ. In the same way 102 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: that there are female depictions of the Buddha. Okay, so 103 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: this is sort of a UM in an effort to 104 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: unify right, to bring both sides to this right, and 105 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: to focus more on feminine aspects in this case of 106 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: of Jesus, and then to venerate those aspects as opposed 107 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: to just bleeding man God on a tree kind of 108 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: a thing. It's a really fascinating accept because you get 109 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: into this whole interesting area of the wound of Christ, 110 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 1: the spear wound, and how this spear wound is also 111 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: kind of like a vagina. I mean, it's it's sorry, 112 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be wrong. That's not a big deal. Yeah, 113 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: the wound is like, yeah, next time you see an 114 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 1: image of doubting Thomas, think about that. Um. But moving 115 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: on side tangent there, But back to which is um 116 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: you were saying, Yeah, Erica dong that she does. She 117 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: does explore the reasons why we have vilified, which is 118 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: throughout the ages, and one of the things that she 119 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: says really interesting is that women have always been the 120 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: bearers of life, right, and we know historically women have 121 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 1: been repressed on all sorts of different fronts. She also 122 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 1: says that as women gain power, they began to um 123 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: to sort of be tamped down. And if you ascribe 124 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: witchness to someone or you put power in the light 125 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: of negativity, then what you're doing essentially is saying that 126 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: not only is this person a life bringer, a life 127 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: bearer which is really powerful, but this person has the 128 00:06:54,800 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: ability to bring death right through potions magic, uh, generall 129 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 1: dark shenanigans. Right, yeah, and if they're engaged in food 130 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: preparation too, I mean that's food can be the big 131 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: life giver. But if it's if something's wrong with it, 132 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: that if it becomes toxic in some way, shape or form, 133 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: if something goes off, there's some sort of bacterial infection, 134 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: then it's a killer as well. That's right. That's why 135 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: you should always be kind to your server. Right. You 136 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: never know what's going on in the kitchen. She might 137 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: be a witch. Yep, she might be a witch, or 138 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: he might be right, yeah, a warlock. So it's gonna 139 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: sound flipped to say this, but but all of a sudden, 140 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: you've you've got something like a broom which is becomes 141 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: really important, almost like a very high tech object in 142 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: the thirteenth century, right, which is interesting because I think 143 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: the broom is something we often discount as that very 144 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: Halloween idea of a witch, Like you've got a you know, 145 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: there's like a kindergartener. Let's put a funny nose on her, 146 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: paying her face green, give her a broom, and she 147 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: can start collecting candy, right, striped tights. Right there we go. 148 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: But I mean it is important to understand that this 149 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: really was a prized object at the home. And we 150 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: talk about the kitchen and who's preparing your food, we're 151 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,679 Speaker 1: also talking about the person who has you know, usually 152 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: elaborately braided broom, a cauldron, right that may have been 153 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: passed down from generation to generation, and these objects start 154 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: to really gain importance that they are key feminine cultural artifacts. Yeah. Absolutely, 155 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: And so when you start to think about a which 156 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: you start to think about brooms, it would make sense 157 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: that somehow they would factor into the image of a witch. 158 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: But now you'll look at early typographs of which is 159 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: and you'll often see uh, some depictions of which is 160 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: uh quite naked on top of a stride, exceedingly naked. 161 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: And that's another thing that little Will Shakespeare. Um, well, no, 162 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: I don't know if they were naked in the if 163 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: there's any reference to the naked in the text, I'm 164 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: thinking of Roman Polanski's version of Macbeth, which is certainly naked, 165 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: which is awesome and uh and has some really naked 166 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: old witches in it, which I thought worked perfectly. But 167 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: he calls back to these old engravings and woodcuts where 168 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: you see naked women flying around in the middle of 169 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: the night talking with goats, riding goats. Um, you know, 170 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: in engaging with the devil and in various way shapes 171 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: and form. Right in terms of there's something to this, right, 172 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: if you scratch the surface a little bit, you'll find 173 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: out that the broom actually figures pretty prominently and in 174 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: which is work. And let's just back up real quick. Um, yes, 175 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: the broom is the ultimate symbol of domesticity, but in 176 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 1: the hands of which it can become this really potent 177 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: symbol of liberation. Right, And the more disenfranchised a person is, 178 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: the more that they might turn to magical thinking to 179 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: gain some sort of mastery over their situations. So let's 180 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: look at it this way. Um, you know, maybe someone 181 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily a self proclaimed which, but perhaps they did, 182 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: uh dabble back of the day, you know, when we're 183 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: talking about this historical which in the thirteenth century in 184 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: ointments because it was important for healing, in ritual and 185 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: magical spells, because this was a way to gain some 186 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: sort of control over their lives. Right, But back to 187 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: this broom the broom. Yeah, they're kind of like two 188 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: interesting ways of looking at the power of the broom, 189 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: one which will discuss even more as the of course 190 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: the magical thinking side of it. And then there's this 191 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: whole ointment situation ointment, which you think is a gross word, 192 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 1: but I do. And and now we're about to really 193 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: sort of dive into the flying the ointment here and 194 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: talk about something that's very interesting about the broom in 195 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: the ointment. You want to you want to run with that, Okay, 196 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: So there's this idea that which is they're flying around 197 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: in broomsticks or they're flying around in chair. But in 198 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: many of these tails and accusations, they are rubbing an 199 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: ointment on the broom or chair first, which it's often 200 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 1: glossed over generally when you it's not a part of 201 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: the Halloween costume. So they're usually on a jar of 202 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: ointment everything the costume. So they're taking this broom they're 203 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: coding it with with some sort of mysterious ointment that 204 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: they've brewed up, and then they're riding this this broomstick 205 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: naked and just having a wonderful time doing it. So, 206 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously that brings to mind some some various 207 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: scenarios that could be taking place, and there's actually some 208 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: real um some people put some real thought into this 209 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: and the idea that the ointment is in fact a 210 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: drug or has has a pharmaceutical or or or psychedelic 211 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: properties and they are interacting with the ointment on the 212 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: broom Yeah, there are some pharmacologists who say, you know what, 213 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: we think that this is actually what was happening, is 214 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: that these ointments were being made and applied um through 215 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: the skin, basically applying a crazy pharmaceutical ointment to the 216 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: genitals with a broomstick. Yes, yes, in fact they probably 217 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: said that on the side, applied gently to broomstick, then 218 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: ride broomstick. Genitals first and Gothic font And this is 219 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: from the investigation of Lady Alice Kitler in she was 220 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: one of the first women to be accused of witchcraft 221 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: in Ireland. We have this account quote in rifling the 222 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: closet of the lady they found a pipe of ointment, 223 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: wherewith she greased a staff upon which she ambled and 224 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: galloped through thick and thin. Okay, these are the actual 225 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: documents that they're pulling some some of this stuff from, 226 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: and not that we put tremendous amount of stock in 227 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: the prosecutions materials in witchcraft trials. I mean they're no true. 228 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: Take that with a whole lot of salt. But who 229 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: knows that like the idea that there could be some 230 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: shredded truth to this is fascinating. Okay, dig a little deeper. 231 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: And this is from the Journal of the American Society 232 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: of Anesthesiologists, in a paper they called the Legacy of 233 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: a Tropos the fate who cut the thread of Life, 234 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: which I think is really poetic for for a journal um. 235 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:46,959 Speaker 1: In the paper they describe a tone written by a 236 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: sixteenth century Dutch physician, Johann we Are, who concluded that 237 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: a plant called henbane was a principal ingredient in which 238 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: is brew, along with deadly nightshade and man drake, and 239 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: according to where if there were other ointments, but the 240 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: essential ingredients remained the same in all of them, in 241 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: all the preparations when they applied to the upper thighs 242 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 1: or general thals. It was said to induce the sensation 243 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: of rising into the air and flying. And by the way, 244 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: by applying this to their skin and rather than taking 245 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: it orallyy, it was much more effective because then they 246 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: didn't have to digest this and have obviously the sort 247 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: of stomach ailments that would accompany that. Right, So at 248 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: some point they figured out that hey, this is this 249 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: is a pretty good way to get high. Well, it 250 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: kind of it's similar in a way to the way 251 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: some medications are applied via suppository rather than taken orally. Yeah. 252 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: And one of the dangerous with suppositories if you're taking 253 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: some sort of illicit substances, of course, that you can't 254 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: if you take to take it orally you can get 255 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: you can become ill and vomited back up, but suppository 256 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: not so much. Yeah, And the people that were studying 257 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: in these appointments, they weren't necessarily thinking that that which 258 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 1: is at that time we're applying them and then actually 259 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: you know, taking flight. They understood this to have hallucinatory properties. 260 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: Back in the sixteenth century, Francis Bacon even said the 261 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: witches themselves are imaginative and believe oftentimes they do that 262 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: which they do, not transforming themselves into other bodies, not 263 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: by incantations or ceremonies, but by ointments and anointing themselves 264 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: all over. So they had sort of an inkling there 265 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: that yes, they were transcending the experience, but not in 266 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: physical body, not actually where they get together and have 267 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: transcendental experiences and not invite them in folk I know. Um, 268 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: and this is interesting too. The use of soot, which 269 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: is sort of alkaline, would have enhanced the passage of 270 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: organic basis because a weak alkaline environment would be sufficient 271 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: to neutralize the positive ironic charge. This is skin from 272 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: that um and it's thesiolist journal. Uh. This is an 273 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: effective ethnobotanical technique that may be seen with Peruvian cocoa 274 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: tours who mix in their mouth the cocaine containing leaves 275 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: with alkhaline centers to enhance uptake. And this is and 276 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: this is interesting and a topic will probably go into 277 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: in Greater Daytona in a future podcast. But this is 278 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: by far not the only would not be the only 279 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: situation of individuals taking uh some sort of psychedelic substance 280 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: as part of a ritual or or magical practice, right, 281 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: and you actually don't you have an article on licking 282 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: frogs or am I thinking of something else? I have 283 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: a pamphlet. It was handed to me by a guy 284 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: in the train. I've been I've been very trepidicious about 285 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: trying it out. There's some hallucinatory frogs that if you've looked, 286 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: actually I think it's maybe the the the vn um 287 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, yeah, that they have that people can 288 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: actually get high. So obviously, through trial and error, over 289 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: thousands of thousands of years, people have figured out different 290 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: properties and plants and animals and manipulate them. So it's 291 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: not weird that someone will come up with an ointment, 292 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: and it's not weird that this person, this female in 293 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: the family, would um be the person to come up 294 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: with these ointments that are are mostly healing right and 295 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: have a sort of power in their household, maybe even 296 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: in their village, as the go to person that has 297 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: all these great little recipes that can make you feel 298 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: a lot better, possibly make you feel as though you 299 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: are writing a broom. And let's also talk about that broom. 300 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: I hate to sort of bring it up, but again, 301 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: you know, why not just the ointment? Why have the broom. 302 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: And I'm just gonna point out that this perhaps was 303 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: a a proto sexual aid. So I'm gonna say a 304 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: old timey sex toy basically, yeah, now and uh, and 305 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: I wonder if too, have like a going back vote 306 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: from the from the side of of women liberated women 307 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: engaging in a certain activity and looking instead at um, 308 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: really grumpy men deciding to crack down on this and 309 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: persecute women. Um, I wonder how much with the broom too. 310 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: There's this idea of you have defiled and not only 311 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: have you defiled yourself and you're and you're eight and all, 312 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: but you've also defiled this object which has um sympathetic 313 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: and not sympathetic, oh yes, sympathetic importance in the household 314 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: and in the family. And uh and also is a 315 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: symbol of of of the status and you've somehow perverted 316 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: this artifact. Well. Also, as we know, um, the understanding 317 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: of female sexuality certainly wasn't that complex or nuanced back 318 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: in the day, and some would argue that today it's 319 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: still Yeah, we just did the podcast that they dealt 320 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: with the female orgasm. Obviously, we still as scientists are 321 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: still figuring out exactly what sexual human sexuality and female 322 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 1: sexuality is all about. Yeah. And so for a woman 323 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: to express sexuality, certainly during uh one period over another, 324 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: depending on what was happening in the thirteenth century, is 325 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: opposed to the sixteenth century. Uh. They were certainly um 326 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: iconic images and ideals to live up to. Yeah, I'll 327 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: put it that way. Right, So we discussed the ointment 328 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 1: based importance of flying around on broomsticks and so forth. Uh. 329 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 1: But after this break, we're gonna really get into the 330 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: idea of magical thinking and how that enforces all these 331 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 1: things we're talking about. This podcast is brought to you 332 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: by Intel, the sponsors of Tomorrow and the Discovery Channel. 333 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: At Intel, we believe curiosity is the spark which drives innovation. 334 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 1: Join us at curiosity dot com and explore the answers 335 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: to life's questions. All right, so we're back. Yeah, we've 336 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: solved the broomstick problem here. Yeah, and I want to 337 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: add one more thing about the broomstick. I couldn't help 338 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: but be reminded of the bobby the babba yaga, you know, 339 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: the old Russian hag or which or cannibalistic ogress. Uh, 340 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: you know with the tusks for for teeth. Yeah, and 341 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 1: she also shows up in uh. There's a movie called 342 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: Jack Frost which Mr Sents theater three thousand dead years 343 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: ago and it has the Bobbyaga in it. So she's 344 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: a really iconic character in Russian myth um. And she's 345 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: a witch. And she addition to living in a hut 346 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,719 Speaker 1: that walks around on hin legs, she also flies through 347 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: the air, sometimes in an iron kettle and sometimes in 348 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: a mortar and pestle, which of course is the you know, 349 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: the device for crushing up various herbs and what have 350 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: you and making them into powders for use in ointments, 351 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: for use in uh you know, and you go to 352 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: the pharmacist today, and I mean that's the symbol of 353 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: the craft. Yeah. Again, here are these these symbols of domesticity, 354 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: right that that are being harnessed for for powerful uh 355 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: goings on with witches, which I think is really interesting 356 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: and really plays into this idea of the law of contagion, 357 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: which is one of the two laws of sympathetic magic. Yeah. 358 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 1: Sympathetic magic is this very old idea, the idea that 359 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: if something I think we've discussed this before, Okay, So 360 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: I have a rubber dinosaur in my hand. All right, 361 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: It's true, And I have touched this rubber dinosaur, right, 362 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: and in touching it, I'm probably doing nothing more than 363 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: getting some of my my skin oil on it, or 364 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: my fingerprints, what have you ink? From my hands? My 365 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 1: hands are really disgusting. But but then then when I 366 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: when I set it down, the taint of my touch, 367 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: that that will be the extent of it. The idea 368 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:13,679 Speaker 1: of sympathetic magic is so that there's a there's an 369 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: even greater taint that is applied to this rubber dinosaur, 370 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 1: and that that I have somehow imbued it with a 371 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: sense of myself. You've transferred yourself to this object. And 372 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: we continue to do this sort of thing today. I mean, 373 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: I just dealing with my own stuff. I'm wearing my 374 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: dad's watch, um that he died in. I'm not a 375 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: logical believer in sympathetic magic, but I am sympathetic towards 376 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: this object, and I have to a certain extent imbued 377 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: it with a sense of him on some level, you know. So, 378 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,400 Speaker 1: I mean we all do this kind of thing every day. Yeah, 379 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: And we talked about this a little bit in the 380 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 1: Science of Lucky Pants and you know how we ascribe 381 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: meaning to two things, and we think if if I 382 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: do this or if I take this, then you know 383 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: something will happen. Or in the case of your father's watch, 384 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: I mean that's that is for you, a part of him. 385 00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: So it's interesting that we're all sort of hard water 386 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: aired too to have this sort of symbolism in our lives, right, 387 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: And I should mention I explained the watch. I didn't 388 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: explain why I have a rubber dinosaur in my hand 389 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: and it's a like a squeeze toy that I used 390 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: to keep from fidgeting too much while recording a podcast, 391 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: Just to explain that, why why I have a rubber 392 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 1: dinosaur on my person? It's true, he squeezes the heck 393 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 1: out of it, and that's fine, right. Another idea that 394 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: arises from from sympathetic magic is like the idea that 395 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: you can treat a weapon to treat the wound or 396 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: somehow like if you were to say, cut somebody with 397 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: a knife, and then you were to heat up that knife, 398 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: then the person would feel the burning of the wound. 399 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: Things of that nature. Things that almost what we would 400 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,959 Speaker 1: have what a modern um mind would think of as 401 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: like a quantum entanglement exists within the confines of sympathetic 402 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: magic um. You know, things objects becoming painted, objects becoming haunted, 403 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: objects made holy through contact with the really important people 404 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 1: the whole. I'll never wash this hand again because his 405 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: hand is come into contact with Brad Pitt's face or something. Well. 406 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: And and if I believed in voodoo or sorcery like that, 407 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: I would probably take care to deposit my fingernail clippings 408 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: in a way which I didn't want someone else to 409 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: get them. Right, to hide your fingernail clippings, hide your hair, 410 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: because these are parts of you. Well, these are even 411 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: more like this is an even easier thing to buy, 412 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: I think, because these were actually a part of me. 413 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: These things were once my body and now they are, 414 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: you know, hidden away in the wall of the house. 415 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: Lest a sorcerer get ahold of it, use it to 416 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: place a curse on me, to make a nail clipping 417 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: sculpture of me, and then drive pins into me exactly 418 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: that that's my fear um and can only take ninety 419 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: years with nail clippings, and real quick. Another another idea 420 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: that's tied of you mentioned vodoo, and of course that 421 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: instantly brings the mind the idea of the voodoo doll 422 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: and uh. And you see variations on this theme in 423 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: in numerous magical um and and really just practices where 424 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: you have a semblance of something and if I like 425 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: I can hurt the doll to hurt the person that 426 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: the doll resembles, or if I burned somebody in effigy, 427 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: I am And you know this is something you see 428 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: and everything from Guy fox Day to Burning Man. You know, 429 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: where an effigy is burned and I'm by burning the effigy, 430 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: you're on some level hurting the person or the idea 431 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: or feeling or thing that it represents. We see this 432 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: in political rallies all the time. Yeah. Yeah, And this 433 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: comes down to something called the law of similarity, which 434 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: holds that humans inevitably link superficial real life resemblances to 435 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: deep unreal resemblances. Okay, so I think about this in 436 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: terms of the ted dot com talk that you sent me. 437 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: It's by skeptic Michael Schermer, and he was talking about, Uh, 438 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 1: he's using an examples of how we can't help you 439 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: describe meaning or see patterns, and he brought up the 440 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: case of the Virgin Mary visage on the grilled cheese 441 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: orgin marry grilled cheese. Yeah. Yeah, he's saying that, you know, 442 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 1: we've got this really sort of grainy pattern recognition in 443 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: our brains, and so we really respond well to, like, 444 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: you know, an image on tree bark or a burnt 445 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: girl cheese sandwich. All of a sudden, some of those 446 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: grainy markings start to take form into an image, and 447 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: I thought, well, that's really fascinating it, particularly when he 448 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: pointed out that if you really look at that grilled 449 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: cheese sandwich, it looks more like Jane Russell than it 450 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: does the Virgin Mary because she's got very potty lips. Well, 451 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: it's I mean, it comes down to the same reason. 452 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: We can just stare up into the sky at the 453 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: clouds and just see one object after another. Oh it's 454 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 1: a it's a dragon using a typewriter. It's Lauren Hardy 455 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,120 Speaker 1: making out on a steamboat, you know that kind of thing. Yeah, 456 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,439 Speaker 1: except for that last part. Well, I'm just saying, you 457 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: see random things that may or may not make sense 458 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: in the clouds. Alright, alright, yeah, I mean it is 459 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: it depends on the birth of perceiver, right, and we 460 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: talked about this a little bit in Science of Lucky 461 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: Pants that some people may be more hardwired than others 462 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 1: to see connections. In a Sandra Huper shoops our article 463 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 1: about the dopamine connection, neurobiologists Peter Breger found that people 464 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,360 Speaker 1: with high levels of dopamine are more likely to find 465 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: significance and coincidences and pick out meaning and patterns where 466 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 1: there are none. In one trial which skeptics and paranormal 467 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: believers were both given the drug el dopa, of course, 468 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,360 Speaker 1: I know it sounds like a street bill. Dopa increases 469 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 1: dopamine levels in the brain. The skeptics began to perform 470 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: much more like the believers. You sent me an interesting 471 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: paper to discuss some of the ideas about like what, 472 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: how why ritual is important? Like what is it? What 473 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: is it accomplished? And when we say ritual, I mean 474 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 1: in one hand, we could be talking about, which is 475 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: going out into the middle of nowhere on the Sabbath 476 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: and UH and gathering together for dance or whatever. Or 477 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: you could be just talking about a local church coming 478 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 1: together and engaging in song, just like a glee club 479 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: engaging in song. Different communal activities, a community service group 480 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: coming together and picking up trash around a neighborhood. Like, 481 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: I mean, that kind of thing can under certain definitions, 482 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: be seen as ritual. Yeah, yeah, actually, Uh, they are 483 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: saying that these synchrony rituals are really powerful, and so 484 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: much so that they may have endowed certain groups with 485 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 1: a competitive advantage over the eon, perhaps even causing some 486 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: cultures to flourish while others Paris sets from the article, 487 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: Uh that I thought, well, that that makes sense why 488 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: we would have these rituals that we participate in. And 489 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: in that article they even brought up the observation that 490 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: in modern day military things like um, marching in formation 491 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: or muscular bonding, right, muscular bonding. Yeah, and uh, even 492 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: chanting or the songs. I don't know what I've been told. Yeah, 493 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: that's the name of that one, right, Yeah, I don't 494 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: know what I've been told, And I don't know the 495 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: rest um The rest varies depending on who's singing it. 496 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, it's something about mamas and boots. Yeah, yeah, 497 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: I don't know. Clearly, I have a vast knowledge of 498 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: military uh songs. But in any case, what they were 499 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 1: saying is that, you know, we still engage in these 500 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: rituals even though warfare is not conducted in you know, 501 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: here's one side in a formation of rows against another 502 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: formation of rows that meet on a hilltop. Right that 503 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: that old school version of a very regimented forces meeting 504 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: on a battlefield and marching into place, basically playing out 505 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: like a table top game that just that does not 506 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: exist anymore, hasn't existed in a while, But a lot 507 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: of these these activities still exist because it builds this bond, 508 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: It builds this this cohesive feeling that we are we 509 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: are one, you know. It's I mean, it's not like 510 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: that the idea you see in every boot camp movie ever, 511 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,880 Speaker 1: that these guys enter is this rag tag group of miscreants, 512 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: and then they in the over the course of the 513 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: boot camp they become a fighting force together. They become brothers. 514 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah. I mean, yet through the experience, uh 515 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: they are are they're transformed into the super group. Right. 516 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: So I think that's interesting between the context of magical thinking, 517 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 1: and this was from an article Do you Believe in Magic? 518 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: And it was saying that that um rituals and magical 519 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: thinking give us a margin of control over the randomness 520 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 1: in our lives. Um. This is from the article says 521 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: magical thinking is most evident precisely when people feel most helpless. 522 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: Geori Canon, professor at Tel Aviv University, sent questionnaires to 523 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: one hundred and seventy four Israelis after the Iraqi SCUD 524 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: missile attacks. Of those who reported the highest level of 525 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: stress were also the most likely to endorse magical beliefs, 526 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: like I have the feeling that the chances of being 527 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: hit during a missile attack are greater if a person 528 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: whose house was attacked is present in the sealed room, 529 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: or to be on the safe side, it is best 530 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: to step into the sealed room right foot first. Yeah, 531 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: And I think sometimes it can come down to your 532 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: your face with overwhelming odds or some sort of situation 533 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: that you just cannot control, and it comes down to 534 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: what can I do? I can't actually stop this thing. 535 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: Take the instance of death. When death comes, there's like 536 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: nothing you can do to bring that person back. But 537 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: you can go and pray about it. You can go 538 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: and light a candle about it. You can go and 539 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: engage in various rituals, even if that ritual is just 540 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: something as simple as like a meditation type of thing, 541 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: and it's something you can do, and so there's this 542 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: feeling of I am doing something in the face of 543 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: this uncontrollable force in my life. Well, and it's uh, 544 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: it's been brought up before to that ritual healing practices 545 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: aren't too far away from like the placebo effect, right right, Yeah, 546 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: Like if you if you engage in this thing, you 547 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: take the sugar pills, then all of a sudden, your 548 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: body is going to respond as if it's actually being 549 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: treated very much the same in a ritual scenario. Another 550 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: idea that came across one of the links you sent me, 551 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: and this comes from Stanford University psychologist and graduate students 552 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: Scott S. Biltmouth, and the idea is that all this 553 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: you know, this synchronicity, this uh, this movement and sound 554 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: in a communal ritual, um, it really comes down to 555 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: economic benefit, with the primary goal of of being to 556 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: spot the reloader, yes, to ferret out the person who's 557 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: not really contributing really right right, So it's kind of like, 558 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: all right, we're all going to do a big giant 559 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: quare dance, and you can tell that the guy who's 560 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: totally not into it is totally not into being a 561 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: part of the group, and therefore you can't you can't 562 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: trust him as much him or her. You can't trust them, 563 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: you can't rely on them, you know that in the end, 564 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: or you can suspect in the end they're going to 565 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: be looking out for number one rather than the whole group. 566 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: They're not entering into the social contract. I think it's fascinating, right, 567 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: I mean, is this is particularly uh important back in 568 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: the days, you know, obviously when uh people got together 569 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: in a more I don't know, how would you say, 570 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: it's just a more formal way or more intentional way, right, 571 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: because if you lived two miles five miles from another family, 572 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: then you really had to make a concerted effort to 573 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: get together socially. Yeah, I mean, I think a lot 574 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: of us have been in situations where there's like some 575 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: sort of a group activity that's happening with work, and 576 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: you maybe don't really want to go to it, or 577 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: you've got other things need to be done, but you 578 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: feel like you should. And and part of that is 579 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: because yeah, it's like the people who don't show up, 580 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: or the people who show up and are really obviously 581 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: not into it. Can they be trusted? Are they really 582 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: a part of the group or are they? Are they freeloaders? Well, 583 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: and then also they're kind of wearing a little bit 584 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: of jerk perfume. You know, you don't want to look 585 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: like a jerk. Okay, So back to Erica John again. 586 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: She talks about this in her forward that ritual intention 587 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: counts for everything. It must be positive. And the more 588 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: witches there are sitting in a circle practicing communal intention, 589 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: the more potency the magic will have. Okay, So that's 590 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: the other part of it, right, Like, if you participant, 591 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: if not that person is not participating, then they're weakening 592 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,479 Speaker 1: what the group effort is. The desire for magic cannot 593 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: be eradicated. Even the most supposedly rational people attempt to 594 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: practice magic. In love and war, we simultaneously possessed the 595 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: most primitive of brain stems and the most sophisticated of cortex. 596 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: Is the imperatives of each coexist uneasily. Huh. That reminds 597 00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: me a little bit of this bit that I ran 598 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: across in this book The False Myth, Religion and the 599 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: Rise of Representation by David Hawks, and he points out 600 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: that magical thinking first and foremost, it makes perfect sense 601 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,479 Speaker 1: in to borrow a phrase from William Manchester a world 602 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: lit only by fire. If you live in a world 603 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: with a lot of a lot of magical beliefs, it 604 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: pays to believe in magic, because that is the currency 605 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: um of ideas. All right, But by the eighteenth century, 606 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: most modern Europeans are convinced that magic doesn't exist anymore. 607 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: And and you see which witches and wizards and warlocks. 608 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: You see them prosecuted not as a blaspheming monsters or 609 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: dangerous idea dealers, but rather as charlatan's and frauds, especially 610 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: in the colonies. And then um Hawks points out, and 611 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: I'm going to read a quotation here. He says, by 612 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: the end of the twentieth century, however, this process of 613 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: enlightenment had been subjected to such cogent philosophical and political 614 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: critiques that few people would endorse it unequivocally. We are 615 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: much more conscious us than our forebears of the complicity 616 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: between reason and magic. Uh. And many would argue that 617 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: the postmodern era, with its virtual reality, its faith in 618 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: the image, it's electronic money, it's new Age religions, is 619 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: witnessing a return to the kinds of overtly magical thinking. 620 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: That imperialism unsuccessfully tried to stomp out in the Southern hemisphere, 621 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: which I found really interesting because indeed there are all 622 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: these like electronic money is this unreal thing? I mean, 623 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: the internet itself is kind of this. You know, where 624 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: is the internet? Right? Well, I guess it depends quite 625 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: a bit on our ability to think magically, right, to 626 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: think metaphorically. So perhaps that's the reason why it hasn't 627 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: been done away with by evolution, right, because there are 628 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: some people who say, why why do we even have 629 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: magical thinking anymore? When we have the ability even as 630 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: tiny babies too innately understand physics or math or language 631 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: and what is real and what is not real? Um, 632 00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: you know, kids by the age of six or seven 633 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: have a really great idea of what is real and 634 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: usually uh, let you know, Santa Claus or Easter Bunny 635 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 1: or anything else, So all those miss fall away. That 636 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 1: being said, why do we keep holding onto it? And 637 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: perhaps that's a reason why. Well, one one more thing 638 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: about about all this before we close out the podcast, 639 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: and that's what we were talking about, which is meeting 640 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: for these Sabbaths, and I keep running across the image 641 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: by Francesca Dagoya the Witches, Sabbath and the Great he Goat, 642 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 1: which is this this lovely image and Gooya's Goya was awesome. 643 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: And so it's all these women and they're they're they're 644 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: arranged like this big semicircle around this speaker like a 645 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: hare um. Yeah, and there's somebody playing the accordion, which 646 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: I thought was a nice touch there with presumably Satan 647 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,839 Speaker 1: the Great he Goat, this sort of goat figure. And 648 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:47,399 Speaker 1: and in many of the old woodcuts, I love looking 649 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 1: at old woodcuts of witches and warlocks and all that, 650 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,760 Speaker 1: and the goat is often depicted as really really raunchy 651 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: and gross, and you know, he's he's really deplorable looking, 652 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, they're these women are gathering to 653 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,399 Speaker 1: to worship and lay with the horned one, and he's 654 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: so gross and vile. And but in this image the 655 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: Great heat Goat had it seems to inspire some of 656 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 1: the more sympathetic aspects of like of of a goat 657 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 1: for starters, and also this kind of he seems like 658 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: a wise old man and these ladies are I can't 659 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: really judge him for going on here and what he 660 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 1: has to say that's a goat that looks like has wisdom. Yeah, no, 661 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: I think that's interesting take. But I still prefer the 662 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: like um, the red hued beast as depicted in South Park. Oh, 663 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,800 Speaker 1: and it was very much in touch with his feelings. 664 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 1: Yeah the way, and you I think you like the 665 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: one from a legend, right, I'm kind of partial to 666 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 1: the one or Ernest world nine played in The Devil's Reign, 667 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: which had a cameo by Anton LaVey of the Church 668 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,479 Speaker 1: of Satan. But Ernest borg nine turns into this man 669 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: goat creature and it's pretty awesome. I I just can't 670 00:35:55,640 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 1: imagine Ernest nine as Satan. Yeah, but real quick, this 671 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: was a Halloween episode. We didn't you didn't explain your 672 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: costume well, because you're supposed to into it what it is? 673 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: Your witch? Yes, excellent. Ye should have brought up broom, Yeah, yeah, 674 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: would have been good. Yeah. Yeah. And of course I'm 675 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 1: dressed as the great heat Goat, thus the goatee and 676 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,439 Speaker 1: the horns, I got that, yeah, and these filthy hands. 677 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: But anyway, and you look very wise, by the way, 678 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 1: thank you. I would prefer to be the wise heat 679 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: Goat and the just deplorable wretched he goat, yeah, thank 680 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,399 Speaker 1: you for not painting your body in red. Oh yeah, 681 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: I didn't get up untime this morning. You know how 682 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: it is. Well, let me reach into the cauldron of 683 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 1: listeners mail and poke around amongst the gibers and the 684 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: wolf teeth and the and the mummy wrappings and see 685 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: shark eggs, and let me see what we have to 686 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: read from our listener. Ian on Facebook and he was 687 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: responding to our recent episode about the orgasm Wars evolution 688 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,239 Speaker 1: of the the orchasm, and he says, hey, guys, love 689 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: the podcast. Uh, not to get to nippicky, but sexual health. Uh. 690 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: This is a subject that I have a great interest 691 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: in and I feel it necessary to report on a 692 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: couple of airs in this episode. First, and I think 693 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: most importantly, you repeatedly stated that the male orgasm is 694 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 1: required for pregnancy. This is an entirely true The pre 695 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 1: siminal fluid that is produced by the male organ for 696 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 1: lubrication also contains enough sperm to cause of pregnancy, thus 697 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: the reason that the pullout and method of birth control 698 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,240 Speaker 1: is not reliable. Unfortunately, this misconception is all too often repeated, 699 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: and in this day and age of team practice, the 700 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: people really need to know that male orgasm does not 701 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 1: need to occur to cause pregnancy. And then he initially 702 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: forgets his second thing, but then he uh points out 703 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:42,719 Speaker 1: that um clitterus is acceptable pronounced either way. So you 704 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: said clitter as, I said claturus. I said, let's call 705 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,759 Speaker 1: the whole thing off. I freaked out and thought that 706 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 1: I was saying it wrong and thought that Colaturus sounded 707 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 1: like a wizard's name. Yeah, I didn't realize you coul 708 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: say clatorus is to me though, that sounds like a 709 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,879 Speaker 1: great antclaturus or something, which I mean like there could 710 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 1: be a great ance tours. But back to Ian's first 711 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: point about the presence of sperm and pre siminal fluid um. 712 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: Looking around, it looks like there are different studies to 713 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,799 Speaker 1: go back and forth. There's some that are saying, yeah, 714 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: there's definitely in some cases sperm in this fluid. On 715 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,839 Speaker 1: other other instances you peak that see people saying, oh, 716 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: that's almost never there. So I don't know. There seems 717 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: to be a lot of literature either either way. Certainly 718 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 1: it would behoove one too to be careful, to be yes, 719 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,920 Speaker 1: to take caution. In fact, there's a Scrubs episode I 720 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: believe that is it called it is his name John, 721 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 1: the main character. Um, he impregnates his girlfriend without actually 722 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: having sex that are based on what you just described 723 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 1: her And I'm not going to go into detail, but 724 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: no spoiler should okay. And we also heard from our 725 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 1: listener Thoor from sweet would even if he didn't have 726 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: anything to say, I would have to. I don't have 727 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: to mention that we have a listener in door and 728 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: Sweeten just pretty awesome. Yeah, And he says, hey, guys, 729 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: So I just listened to the podcast on the Lies, 730 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,360 Speaker 1: and IBA struck me when you were talking about the 731 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: aliens who couldn't lie, and I think I may have 732 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 1: been referring to China me Elvil's embassy town and that 733 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: he says, if you can't lie, are you then all knowing? Example, 734 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: someone asks you, what are the first fifteen decimals of pie? 735 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: You start by saying, well, three point one, four, one, 736 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: five um um. If you can't lie, you have to 737 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 1: keep going. So does the inability to lie make you 738 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: know the fifteen decimals? Maybe a bad example that you 739 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: get the idea. Another thing, if you were told when 740 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: you were a kid that watching TV two clothes makes 741 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: your your eyes square and nobody's ever told you that 742 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: it isn't true? Is saying it then a lie? Thanks 743 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 1: for a lot of very interesting stuff. Smiley face love 744 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 1: from Sweden thor all right, yeah, I don't think that that. 745 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: If you've not been disabused from the idea, then I 746 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: don't think that it's lying. Right. What it instantly makes 747 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: me think up two is we discussed this in the 748 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: False Memory podcast. It's about how you can you can 749 00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: have a memory that is false and you say saying it, 750 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,399 Speaker 1: you think it's true, but on a deeper cognitive level, 751 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 1: brain scans reveal that you might know the brain may 752 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 1: know that you are lying. And I find it and 753 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,400 Speaker 1: that's just I just find that an interesting idea, especially 754 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: in relation to this, the idea that even as we 755 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,720 Speaker 1: if we believe something, it doesn't mean that we believe 756 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: it in the deeper levels of the brain. UM. I 757 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: also think it's fascinating that in Sweden, perhaps maybe this 758 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: is a cultural thing, that the myth is that if 759 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 1: you sit too close to the t V your eyes 760 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 1: will turn into squares, as opposed to in the United States, 761 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: if you sit too close to the t v you 762 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: will go blind. Oh I didn't notice that. Yeah, I 763 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 1: guess that's the thing. I read this and I was 764 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 1: just instantly thinking about our idea. I think your eyes 765 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 1: square to some square eye? What is square eyed? I 766 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 1: didn't maybe turn your round eyes into like the actual 767 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 1: into actual squares, IRUs into squares. It would be kind 768 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 1: of cool. We may have lost something in translation there, 769 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: but anyway, I love getting email that said love from 770 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: Sweden thor so hopefully, hopefully we'll get more of that 771 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 1: from other people with even if you don't live in Sweden. Yes, So, 772 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,440 Speaker 1: if you would like to share some ideas with us, 773 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,400 Speaker 1: if you would like to to provide feedback on a 774 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 1: podcast episode, present ideas for future episodes. You can find 775 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 1: us on Facebook and you can find us on Twitter, 776 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:17,760 Speaker 1: and I'm both of those. We go by the moniker 777 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,839 Speaker 1: below the Mind and or also you can just search 778 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 1: for stuff to Blow your Mind Facebook Twitter and you'll 779 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,360 Speaker 1: probably find us, and you can always drop us a 780 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,839 Speaker 1: line at blow the Mind at how stupporks dot com. 781 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: Be sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff 782 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: from the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we 783 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 1: explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow,