WEBVTT - This is Your Brain on Meditation 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.680 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:13.880 Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:16.799 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie, 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:21.279 what does meditation mean? Do you? How does mad meditation 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:26.400 manifest in your own life? Usually it manifests itself in 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:28.880 the sense that I'll be in the middle of something 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:31.320 and I'll think, oh, my god, if I could only 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.920 meditate and meditate, well, this would probably be the time 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:37.199 that I need to do it. Um. So Usually it 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:40.239 comes up in the chaos of life and uh, and 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:42.519 then I start to think about how horrible I am 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:47.839 at it. So so you can't actually sit and and 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:49.960 do like you or you don't normally sit around and 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.199 do like, say two our meditation. No no, But I 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:55.600 do it from time to time. And the reason is 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.280 because if I can just get ten seconds, ten seconds, 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:02.920 five seconds, doesn't matter of some sort of state in 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:06.759 which my mind goes blank and doesn't you know, fill 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:09.760 up with groceralists or goofy thoughts or you know, my 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.080 back hurt or something like that, then I feel like 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:15.680 that is is a huge wind um or at least, 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:17.880 you know, I come away with feeling a little bit 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:21.400 clearer and lighter. Yeah, well, for my own part, I'm 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:27.240 also not uh seemingly capable of lengthy meditation. And uh 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:28.560 and for for a while I was trying to do 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:30.840 like a little meditation every morning, and then I kind 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:33.120 of thought out of the habit of it. But that 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:35.000 that was particularly nice, where you just sort of, you know, 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:37.200 get up, I have my coffee and my smoothie, and 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:39.760 then go into the sun room for you know, a 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:42.840 couple of minutes and just try and not think about 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:48.040 anything and just sort of sit there and let this 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:49.760 is gonna I mean, a lot of this is gonna 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:51.200 sound kind of hippie did people were going to tie 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:53.560 everything back in the science, but kind of let life 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:57.080 sort of happen to you and and and sort of 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:01.680 lessen your role as a participant in life for just 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:03.960 a few minutes. And then, of course, and then I 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:05.960 started thinking about, oh, well, you know, I'm recording a 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:08.799 podcast this morning, or who what am I blogging about today? 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:11.000 Or you know, what is the cat doing over there 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:14.200 by the window? That kind of thing. But but yeah, 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.600 it's kind of like, hey, you're talking about you think 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:19.600 about it during the chaos and it is kind of 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:22.560 the idea of rising above the chaos in the same 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:25.400 way that, uh, you could have a fierce storm on 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:27.959 Earth and if you were in an airplane, you could 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:30.240 fly above the cloud cover and everything would be clear. 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:33.960 And the basic idea of meditation is that so much 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:37.639 of our life is that storm, and we are always 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:43.000 capable of rising above it, you know, and and experiencing 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:45.760 life as it as it actually is without all these 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:51.400 emotional storms. I think I always think about Unfortunately Kenna 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:56.480 Reeves um, because he plays at Hearthor right, and there's 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:59.320 just one scene in the movie. Yeah, yeah, I'm not 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:02.320 familiar with this of adaptation. Um yeah, I'm like gonna, 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:05.079 I'm sorry, I'm not not talking about the Matrix right now, 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:07.639 although he did play I kind of said Hearthur and 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:11.320 that right, Um, But he's in the middle of this maelstrom, 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:14.639 like literally this storm that is blowing up around him, 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:19.240 and he's meditating and he's you know, completely unflappable and 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:23.600 has moved into some sort of trance like experience. And 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.840 this one, you know, we know that, um that this 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:30.359 sort of level of meditation is something called like Nirvana, 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:33.760 right or somebody which is one of the It's the 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.960 highest level that you could ever achieve. And that's what 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:40.920 made him said, Arthur Right or Kiana Reeves either one. Um, 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:44.360 but you know that the idea is that you can 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:46.840 block out the world and just refresh. He plays it 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:50.160 hard to got him the Buddha. Yes, Okay, I'm pretty 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:54.960 sure it was Kiana Reeves, because I define it funny 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:57.520 that he picks roles that don't have a lot of 0:03:57.600 --> 0:03:59.400 dialogue in them, and this was one of them. He 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:01.240 just had to sort out there and look pretty and 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:03.800 it's kind of yeah, he had to sit there with 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:07.880 his eyes closed. Well, it's interesting that we ring up 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:11.320 movies because I think before I actually tried meditation or 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:13.440 even really had an idea of what it was, which 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:16.120 was a long stretch of my life. Uh, so far, 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:18.560 I just had meditation was the kind of thing like 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.839 a shell in Monk might do in a movie before 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.560 I started whipping people's butts. That you know that that 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:26.560 was basically the only real idea that meditation was this 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:31.000 cool Eastern thing that people in movies sometimes did, and 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:32.920 they looked real serene and cool when they did it, 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:36.119 and uh, and so I did have the right idea 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:40.800 that it was somehow involved calmness and focusing the mind. Well, see, 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:43.400 I think that's the interesting thing about meditation is it 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.599 means something different to each person and there are a 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:50.320 million different ways to meditate and techniques and ways to 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:52.520 use it. But of course, when we see it in 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:56.479 the purest sense in the East, you know from which 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.400 it came, we see it as particularly like in Japanese 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:02.640 and Buddhism, um um, there's really no goal of reaching 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:05.880 this ultimate state of being or nirvana. It's just about sitting. 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.359 For them, it's about sitting period, right, um. But we 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:11.520 know here in the West that we've been using it 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:13.840 as a fantasy at right, Like, okay, if you want 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:16.600 to lower your stress, then you should meditate. If you 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:19.240 wanna get rich, you should meditate. If you want to 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:23.280 get skinny, get you know, the laundry list of this 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:26.320 kind of a magical thing that can solve any problem, 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:29.159 which it's not right And and of course there is 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:32.640 this mystical aspect to it because when you do, when 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.640 you can get instant some sort of state like that, 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:38.200 and and your brain is engaged in that, it does 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:42.080 feel like something that's special, special, and mystical um, an 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:44.359 experience that only you are having right well, and it 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:48.160 is tied into various religious traditions, um, even showing up 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:51.400 in some Christian traditions. And like some there comes a 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:54.960 point where prayer crosses over and really becomes more of meditation. Uh. 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:56.800 And let me back up just a second to talk 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.599 about two distinct types of meditation, just to give a 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.880 deeper idea of what we're talking about. Um. There is 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:09.640 uh concentrative meditation, and then there is mindful meditation. And 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:11.920 the Now the analogy I like to think of is uh, 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:17.279 think of a clear vortex, like a clear vortex of water, um, 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:19.880 the kind that might exist in a in a soda 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.239 container after you've put filled it with water and shook 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:24.719 it up, you know, like a whirlpool, and it's clear, 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:31.760 all right, No no bubbles that don't complicate the metaphor so. UM. 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:35.240 Now imagine taking say a blue die and pouring that in, 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:39.760 and that blue die represents um worrying about the future. 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:42.160 And then let's say you put in a green die 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:45.440 as well, and that die represents uh fretting about the 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.320 past and so and then there are other dies as 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:50.560 well having to do with other concerns and worries in 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:53.640 your life, and the more you put in into it, 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.800 that the vortex just becomes blacker and blacker and just 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:01.400 you know, in this horrible brown color. And part of 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:03.920 the idea of meditation is that is it so much 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:06.360 of our life is like that. We're this vortex of 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:09.560 thought with all these things wrapped up in it. And yeah, 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.480 and those that's the and that's the guys, that's the 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.040 lens through which we view the world. And so the 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:20.800 goal of meditation is to simplify that vortex. And the 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:25.440 concentrative approach is uh generally actually involved stuff like um, 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:30.400 repeating mantras, uh, focusing on a single word. And it's 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:32.840 the idea here is like, instead of putting all these 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.800 different dyes into the vortex, I'm gonna put a single die. 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:39.840 I'm gonna put this single um, I don't know, uh, 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:43.000 pick a color, pink, pink die. We're gonna put this 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:46.840 single pink dye that is this mantra or this phrase 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.320 or just this ome that that's going to replace the 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.880 muddle of red and green and blue. So so the 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:56.680 vortex cannot disappear. Because the vortexes are thought process the 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:59.080 vortex is us and the vortex is the way we 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:01.320 view the world. But if we can focus it on 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:05.600 one thing, then it simplifies everything. Okay, So it's reductionism, yes, 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:10.520 And then there's mindful meditation, and mindful meditation UM is 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:14.160 about recognizing the flow of experience, the thoughts, the sites, 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:16.080 the sounds. So in this one, it's not as much 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:19.240 about focusing putting a different color into the vortex vortex, 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:24.840 but focusing on the vortex itself really, So so that's okay. 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:27.480 So the Maelstrom is the Maelstrom, and it is what 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:30.480 it is, yeah, and just realizing that the Maelstrom and 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.840 like and realizing what's happening with So that's that's that's 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:36.920 the way I kind of tend to view the two 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:40.520 different different versions here. So those are essentially two different 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.360 kinds of meditation, okay. And I think it's interesting too 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:47.360 to look at this, like what's happening inside the actual brain? Um, 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:49.719 just to give us an idea. We know that the 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.719 brain always has some level of electrical activity going on, 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:57.439 measurable electrical measurable right right, And the kny G can 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:00.480 measure that activity, and so you have different types of 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:04.800 brain waves UM from slow to fast. You have delta, theta, alpha, 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.199 and bed beta, and we know that delta is associated 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:10.520 with deep sleep, and on the other end of the spectrum, 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:14.200 we know that beta is associated when UM, you're working 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:18.040 on a goal oriented task. Right, So during meditation, what 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.680 we do know is that Theta waves right there there, 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:23.440 couched right there next to delta, those are the most 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.640 common brain waves in the frontal and middle parts of 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:30.480 the brain, which are responsible for monitoring other thought processes 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:32.680 or mental processes. So in other words, this part of 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.080 the brain is basically dialing down the awareness of the 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:38.360 other brain UM. And of course we're seeing this not 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:42.480 in just like a casual meditators. We're seeing this and 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:45.160 people who are highly experienced meditators UM. And then we 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:48.160 also see that alpha waves show up in the posterior 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:52.280 parts of the brain and this indicates a wakeful rest UM. 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.439 A study described in Science Daily brain Waves and Meditation 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:59.000 makes the connection that the brain wave activity is much 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:04.160 more changed in groups of meditators than groups who just 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.720 relax UM. So the extrapolation is that the brain is 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:10.240 able to relax and focus a lot more in this 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:13.360 meditative state. So there's definitely a difference because some people think, well, 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:15.960 can I just sit there and relax, I can watch TV, 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.760 I can read a book, or I can just sit there, 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.520 but not necessarily meditate. The fact is is that you 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:26.560 still have your brain engaged different parts in in um thinking, right. Yeah, 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:28.440 Like people often talk about well, I'm just gonna go 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:30.480 home and turn off my brain and by that and 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.720 I mean watching TV. But yeah, it's it's different things 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:36.679 are going on. So while if you're just trying your 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.240 hand at meditation, or or certainly if you're inspired to 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:42.480 give meditation to try after listening to this podcast, and 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:44.440 by all means, do and write us and tell us 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:47.480 what you think. Um, just you know, you may find 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:49.600 yourself setting there going, well, I'm sitting here doing nothing. 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:51.960 I sure could whip out my smartphone and check my 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:54.160 email as long as I'm setting here, or or I 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:56.480 could start thinking about this or it wouldn't be better off, 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:58.959 you know, catching up on the show. I just started 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.959 watching an HBO or some thing. But but that's you're 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:03.839 then you're engaging different parts of your brain, and you're 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.360 you're bringing in a lot of mental activity that you're 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:09.320 ideally trying to remove. From that vortex, right, because they're 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:11.679 bombard at all the time. Right. And actually I think 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:15.480 this is probably a good time to talk about memes, right. Yes, Um, 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:20.320 we've talked about Susan Blackmore. She is m ameticist and um, 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:23.920 she's built on Richard dawkins selfish gene premise that our 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:27.680 genes carrying carry on only to perpetuate themselves sort of 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:31.959 regardless of the Organismy hair too, she has multicolored hair. 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:34.120 She's pretty wonderful. It's just from like a rock star 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:37.720 of this area. Um. And Dawkins also said that we've 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:42.160 created a cultural equivalent in something he calls memes. So 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:45.240 this is the spread of ideas that compete to become 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.280 part of our cultural fabric, and not even just our 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:50.880 cultural fabric, but on an individual basis, the things that 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:54.920 you hear, the words, the ideas that sort of uh 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:58.280 come together in this mosaic for each person. Um, those 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:04.320 are all competing things, right, and um, it's a it's 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:06.679 the brain chatter really that we experienced on a day 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.319 to day level. And it's the songs we hear, it's 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.880 the conversation we pick up, it's the imagined dialogues in 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:15.680 her head right, um, And it's the effort of the 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.600 brain to to sort of, you know, steer the car 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:22.319 left when you're actually reremembering a past event or a conversation. 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:24.360 These are all the things that are crowding us up. 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:28.280 And Susan Blackmore talks about memes extensively, and she actually 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:32.040 talks about teams, to which she says, is technology just 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:35.800 giving us iterations of memes? Which is for another day. 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:40.600 But memes and meditation is something really important to her 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:43.400 because not only she in a metasis, but she is 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:49.040 she's like a zen meditation practitioner twenty five years now. Yeah. 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.320 And in John Horgan's book Rational Mysticism, he actually interviews 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:56.520 her about her view on memes and meditation, and this 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:59.640 is sort of him summarizing her thoughts on the topic. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.640 He says, we do not perceive the world directly as 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:06.400 it truly is. We actively constructed. We construct ourselves to 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:11.360 our ordinary waking self is as artificial, invented, and illusory 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:15.480 as the ethereal double selves. We hallucinate in dreams and 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.720 out of body experiences. Once we learn this fact and 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:20.960 fully realize it in every moment of our lives, we 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:23.560 can wait from the meme dream, and this is something 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:25.480 she talks about all the time, the meme dream. All 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:30.400 of this information that we're trying to um just percolate 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.520 in our brains. Um. And and remember too, this is 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.920 interesting when you think about the fact that of what 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.240 we perceive when we enter a room isn't necessarily coming 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:43.560 through our eyes. It's actually how we are interpreting and 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.920 inferring the data that we see. So again we've we've 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.480 got all this happening at once. So according to Blackmore, 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.600 she says that mentation is not going to make you smarter, richer, healthier. 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.960 It's really about pruning back those memes. Yeah. Yeah, and 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:02.240 it's um again. It brings back down this idea of 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:04.839 there's there's the world as it is, and then there 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:06.720 is the world as we see it, and that the 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:08.640 world as we see it is influenced by all these 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:12.800 memes and all these thought processes and UH and meditation 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.000 often comes back to the idea of turning a lot 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:18.720 of this off and and seeing the room as the room. Yeah. 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.360 And actually Blackmore has a bone to pick too with 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:26.920 with meditators and um in meditating in general, which we 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:34.920 will get to right after this quick break. This presentation 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:42.600 is brought to you by Intel sponsors of tomorrow. Yeah. 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:46.240 Actually Blackmore can argue, shoot, and in fact will that 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.120 it's nearly impossible to get consistent data to tell us 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:52.160 a coherent story about the effects of meditation. And one 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:56.480 part is, even though I swiftly divided meditation into two types, 0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:00.520 there are so many different styles of medica titation and 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:02.960 methods of meditation. I mean, just think of it, you know, 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.360 talking about reducing the vortex to one single color instead 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.080 of a dozen at once. Well, they're just they're just 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:11.120 imagine that there are any number of colors you could 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:15.400 make that vortex b um and so so there there's 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:17.560 If you start looking around for ways to meditate, you 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.240 will find lots of examples, and you can't study all 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:21.880 of them in a scientific study. You have to pick 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:25.080 something and go with it, and so you inevitably do 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:29.040 not have a complete picture of meditation as a global phenomena. Well, 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.000 and her problem with it too is that once you 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.400 try to quantitate results, you're trying to apply an agenda 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.600 to something that doesn't necessarily have an agenda, right, because again, 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:41.080 meditation is not it is not it should not be 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:43.720 and it's more traditional forms. It should not be I 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.360 will meditate now to try and make myself healthier. But 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:47.680 it's not that kind of thing. And I don't know 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.080 why someone would talk like a robot will meditation. Well, 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:54.680 that's your meditation voice. I think we've heard your dolphin voice, 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:58.360 your meditation voice. Um. So yeah, I mean that's why 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.120 she says you get wildly different data of sometimes when 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:03.680 you have two different groups. And part of that too, 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:07.800 can be because the the actual sample group. Um. She 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:12.720 tends to say that people who are seeking out meditators, 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.320 they tend to be more anxious and neurotic than average, 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.200 and I know, to report more problems in general, and 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:21.040 to have taken twice as many drugs as non meditators. 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:23.760 She's gonna say what kind of drugs or you know. 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:27.960 But um, in other words, it's not necessarily the sample 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.360 group that you want to test, uh, in order to 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.440 get sort of like across the board, even reliable results. 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.240 Now this is her talking about in her experience, right, 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:41.280 Because you have to understand that she's going to workshops 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.760 into very intense like weekend retreats and so on and 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.600 so forth. She's probably dealing with a different animal and 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:49.720 in terms to the people that she's come across as 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:54.600 a scientist and hum a practitioner herself. Yeah, and these 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:56.880 are and she's she's dealing in these cases not with 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:02.080 casual meditators, That's right. These are people that maybe you 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:05.919 have more intense personalities, who like her, you know, have 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.480 been practicing this at this very high level for twenty 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.360 five years or more. Um, so you know that's it's 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.000 sort of a different animal. Well, then there's also the 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:17.600 idea that, uh, did you point out that that people 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:20.680 engaged in meditation are more often to be uh, they're 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.920 more open to become immersed in an experience. Correct. Yeah, Yeah, 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:26.040 that's another thing. And that sort of brought up the 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:28.520 whole placebo effect which we've talked about before. If you 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.600 have a group that is ready, willing and able to 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:34.320 do something, then it may not bear out the same 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.560 results as another group that is like, oh okay, I'll 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:38.480 just try out this meditation thing and see what sort 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:40.480 of results I get. Yeah, I mean just imagine the 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:42.360 difference if you were to say, hey, guys, I need 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:45.080 ten people like you advertising about I need ten people 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:46.960 for a meditation study, and then so you get ten 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.040 people are like, yeah, I totally will blow a Saturday 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.720 on a meditation study versus if you just went out 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:53.320 on the street and we're like, all right, you you 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:56.320 you you, and you get here meditation study. Now, it's 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.239 going to be a rather different results that imagine, right, right, 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:01.480 they're already sort of doing up this idea that they're 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:03.960 going to have some sort of benefit from this, and 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:06.880 particularly in group meditation, you see this too, because it's 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:11.879 sort of another issue of community and socialization. Um. She 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:14.960 talks about the Maharishi effect. Yes, yeah, And we're not 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:19.200 going to pick on transcendental meditation because actually, as a technique, um, 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.439 it is supposedly very helpful. Um. But I think she 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:27.920 is picking on Maharishi, referring to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, known 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:31.199 as the Beatles Guru. I think, to most people, who 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:35.000 is the founder of transcendental meditation? Yeah, I mean one 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:38.359 of our problems here is that you have the Maryashi 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:42.760 International University in Fairfield, Iowa, and they publish their own 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:48.520 publications with different studies and regarding the effects of transcendental 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:53.320 medica meditation. So yeah, I eat non peer reviews. Yeah yeah, 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.359 So no no challenge here so yeah, look look for 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.040 that as you're looking at different results, you know, in 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:02.679 different website, which is for the positive effects of meditation. 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:08.240 Now the Mariachi Mariachi effect, that would be something entirely different. 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:13.600 The my mind still wants to say Mariachi Maharishi. Yes, 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:18.160 the Maharishi effect. Um. This comes down to the most 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:22.919 in its most phenomenal example would be that one percent 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:26.800 of the population gets together, meditates and changes the world. 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:29.679 This is a claim, right, that that there's less crime 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:34.280 as a result of meditation. That's one claim, one percent 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:38.359 less because these all the people okating can no longer 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.520 be you know, only if you picked hard in criminals. 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:44.359 It seems like with that statistically match up. Okay, And 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:46.560 of course the people have tried to run this through 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:50.200 mathematical models and it's not burying out. That's not a surprise, 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:54.760 right for for a number of reasons. Um. And then 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:58.720 another claim is that they could influence the weather. Yeah, 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:04.240 and the last they could levitate. Yeah. Well, if you 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.840 know enough about the weather, then the weather claim is 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:10.200 just as ridiculous as as levitation, because the weather, whether 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:13.640 it's such a complex system based on global phenomena and 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.800 it's just really complicated. And I mean the idea that 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:20.280 you can influence that with your thought, that's and and 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:23.720 influence that with meditation is rather far fetched. As far 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.840 fetched I think as one individual rising above um the 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:30.199 ground on like a I don't know, a cushion of 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:33.719 pure thought. Yeah, And that's what black MOR's beef is, right. 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:37.280 I mean she's basically saying, I am a practitioner. I 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:40.720 do this. I think that it has its benefits. Um. 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:43.800 But you know, you've got this other group that I 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:47.400 was making sort of wild claims and detracting from from 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:51.239 what actually is a helpful and useful practice. I mean. 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:54.359 The good news, though, I mean, okay, bad news is 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:56.479 not You're probably not going to float into the air, right, 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:58.720 You're probably not going to reach a sort of uh 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:02.399 nervonic state which you're just gliding around on your own 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:05.600 magic carpet. Right. Yes, that's bad news. The good news 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:09.040 is that we already know about neuroplasticity, right. We know 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:13.680 that we can change our minds to the degree that 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:17.119 we can exercise so to speak, the muscles again, so 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:19.760 to speak, in our brain. And we've seen this when 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:23.960 we talked about music in the mind and how in musicians, 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.240 there are particular areas of mind that are much more 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:29.679 developed than in other non musicians. You see the same 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:33.879 thing with people who are highly competent meditators, that they 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:38.080 are parts of their brain that can actually expand and um. 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:41.359 And they've actually seen this in studies about compassion before, 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:45.239 the ability to become more compassionate. Well, and that's like 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:48.680 you you look at the at the Buddhist teachings and 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:52.480 I mean that's one of the core reasons for meditation, 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:55.119 is the idea that compassion arises from all of this 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:57.479 and that's world changing, right. I mean, you don't have 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:01.640 to levitate to change the world. Yeah, yeah, that Yeah, 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:06.440