1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,799 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie, 4 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 1: what does meditation mean? Do you? How does mad meditation 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: manifest in your own life? Usually it manifests itself in 6 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: the sense that I'll be in the middle of something 7 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: and I'll think, oh, my god, if I could only 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: meditate and meditate, well, this would probably be the time 9 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: that I need to do it. Um. So Usually it 10 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: comes up in the chaos of life and uh, and 11 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: then I start to think about how horrible I am 12 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: at it. So so you can't actually sit and and 13 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: do like you or you don't normally sit around and 14 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: do like, say two our meditation. No no, But I 15 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: do it from time to time. And the reason is 16 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: because if I can just get ten seconds, ten seconds, 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: five seconds, doesn't matter of some sort of state in 18 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 1: which my mind goes blank and doesn't you know, fill 19 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: up with groceralists or goofy thoughts or you know, my 20 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: back hurt or something like that, then I feel like 21 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: that is is a huge wind um or at least, 22 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: you know, I come away with feeling a little bit 23 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: clearer and lighter. Yeah, well, for my own part, I'm 24 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: also not uh seemingly capable of lengthy meditation. And uh 25 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: and for for a while I was trying to do 26 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: like a little meditation every morning, and then I kind 27 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: of thought out of the habit of it. But that 28 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: that was particularly nice, where you just sort of, you know, 29 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: get up, I have my coffee and my smoothie, and 30 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: then go into the sun room for you know, a 31 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: couple of minutes and just try and not think about 32 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: anything and just sort of sit there and let this 33 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: is gonna I mean, a lot of this is gonna 34 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: sound kind of hippie did people were going to tie 35 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: everything back in the science, but kind of let life 36 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: sort of happen to you and and and sort of 37 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: lessen your role as a participant in life for just 38 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: a few minutes. And then, of course, and then I 39 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: started thinking about, oh, well, you know, I'm recording a 40 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 1: podcast this morning, or who what am I blogging about today? 41 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: Or you know, what is the cat doing over there 42 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: by the window? That kind of thing. But but yeah, 43 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: it's kind of like, hey, you're talking about you think 44 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: about it during the chaos and it is kind of 45 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: the idea of rising above the chaos in the same 46 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: way that, uh, you could have a fierce storm on 47 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 1: Earth and if you were in an airplane, you could 48 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: fly above the cloud cover and everything would be clear. 49 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: And the basic idea of meditation is that so much 50 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: of our life is that storm, and we are always 51 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: capable of rising above it, you know, and and experiencing 52 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: life as it as it actually is without all these 53 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: emotional storms. I think I always think about Unfortunately Kenna 54 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: Reeves um, because he plays at Hearthor right, and there's 55 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: just one scene in the movie. Yeah, yeah, I'm not 56 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: familiar with this of adaptation. Um yeah, I'm like gonna, 57 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm not not talking about the Matrix right now, 58 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 1: although he did play I kind of said Hearthur and 59 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: that right, Um, But he's in the middle of this maelstrom, 60 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: like literally this storm that is blowing up around him, 61 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: and he's meditating and he's you know, completely unflappable and 62 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: has moved into some sort of trance like experience. And 63 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: this one, you know, we know that, um that this 64 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 1: sort of level of meditation is something called like Nirvana, 65 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: right or somebody which is one of the It's the 66 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: highest level that you could ever achieve. And that's what 67 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: made him said, Arthur Right or Kiana Reeves either one. Um, 68 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: but you know that the idea is that you can 69 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: block out the world and just refresh. He plays it 70 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: hard to got him the Buddha. Yes, Okay, I'm pretty 71 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: sure it was Kiana Reeves, because I define it funny 72 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: that he picks roles that don't have a lot of 73 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: dialogue in them, and this was one of them. He 74 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: just had to sort out there and look pretty and 75 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: it's kind of yeah, he had to sit there with 76 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: his eyes closed. Well, it's interesting that we ring up 77 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: movies because I think before I actually tried meditation or 78 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: even really had an idea of what it was, which 79 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: was a long stretch of my life. Uh, so far, 80 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: I just had meditation was the kind of thing like 81 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: a shell in Monk might do in a movie before 82 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: I started whipping people's butts. That you know that that 83 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: was basically the only real idea that meditation was this 84 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: cool Eastern thing that people in movies sometimes did, and 85 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: they looked real serene and cool when they did it, 86 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,119 Speaker 1: and uh, and so I did have the right idea 87 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: that it was somehow involved calmness and focusing the mind. Well, see, 88 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: I think that's the interesting thing about meditation is it 89 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: means something different to each person and there are a 90 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: million different ways to meditate and techniques and ways to 91 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: use it. But of course, when we see it in 92 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 1: the purest sense in the East, you know from which 93 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: it came, we see it as particularly like in Japanese 94 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: and Buddhism, um um, there's really no goal of reaching 95 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: this ultimate state of being or nirvana. It's just about sitting. 96 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,359 Speaker 1: For them, it's about sitting period, right, um. But we 97 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: know here in the West that we've been using it 98 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: as a fantasy at right, Like, okay, if you want 99 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 1: to lower your stress, then you should meditate. If you 100 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: wanna get rich, you should meditate. If you want to 101 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 1: get skinny, get you know, the laundry list of this 102 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: kind of a magical thing that can solve any problem, 103 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 1: which it's not right And and of course there is 104 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: this mystical aspect to it because when you do, when 105 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: you can get instant some sort of state like that, 106 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: and and your brain is engaged in that, it does 107 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: feel like something that's special, special, and mystical um, an 108 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,359 Speaker 1: experience that only you are having right well, and it 109 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: is tied into various religious traditions, um, even showing up 110 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: in some Christian traditions. And like some there comes a 111 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: point where prayer crosses over and really becomes more of meditation. Uh. 112 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: And let me back up just a second to talk 113 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 1: about two distinct types of meditation, just to give a 114 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: deeper idea of what we're talking about. Um. There is 115 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: uh concentrative meditation, and then there is mindful meditation. And 116 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: the Now the analogy I like to think of is uh, 117 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: think of a clear vortex, like a clear vortex of water, um, 118 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: the kind that might exist in a in a soda 119 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,239 Speaker 1: container after you've put filled it with water and shook 120 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: it up, you know, like a whirlpool, and it's clear, 121 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: all right, No no bubbles that don't complicate the metaphor so. UM. 122 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: Now imagine taking say a blue die and pouring that in, 123 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: and that blue die represents um worrying about the future. 124 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 1: And then let's say you put in a green die 125 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: as well, and that die represents uh fretting about the 126 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: past and so and then there are other dies as 127 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: well having to do with other concerns and worries in 128 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: your life, and the more you put in into it, 129 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: that the vortex just becomes blacker and blacker and just 130 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: you know, in this horrible brown color. And part of 131 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: the idea of meditation is that is it so much 132 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: of our life is like that. We're this vortex of 133 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: thought with all these things wrapped up in it. And yeah, 134 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: and those that's the and that's the guys, that's the 135 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: lens through which we view the world. And so the 136 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: goal of meditation is to simplify that vortex. And the 137 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: concentrative approach is uh generally actually involved stuff like um, 138 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: repeating mantras, uh, focusing on a single word. And it's 139 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: the idea here is like, instead of putting all these 140 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: different dyes into the vortex, I'm gonna put a single die. 141 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna put this single um, I don't know, uh, 142 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: pick a color, pink, pink die. We're gonna put this 143 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: single pink dye that is this mantra or this phrase 144 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: or just this ome that that's going to replace the 145 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: muddle of red and green and blue. So so the 146 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: vortex cannot disappear. Because the vortexes are thought process the 147 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: vortex is us and the vortex is the way we 148 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: view the world. But if we can focus it on 149 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: one thing, then it simplifies everything. Okay, So it's reductionism, yes, 150 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: And then there's mindful meditation, and mindful meditation UM is 151 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: about recognizing the flow of experience, the thoughts, the sites, 152 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: the sounds. So in this one, it's not as much 153 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: about focusing putting a different color into the vortex vortex, 154 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: but focusing on the vortex itself really, So so that's okay. 155 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: So the Maelstrom is the Maelstrom, and it is what 156 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: it is, yeah, and just realizing that the Maelstrom and 157 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: like and realizing what's happening with So that's that's that's 158 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: the way I kind of tend to view the two 159 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: different different versions here. So those are essentially two different 160 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: kinds of meditation, okay. And I think it's interesting too 161 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: to look at this, like what's happening inside the actual brain? Um, 162 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:49,719 Speaker 1: just to give us an idea. We know that the 163 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,719 Speaker 1: brain always has some level of electrical activity going on, 164 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 1: measurable electrical measurable right right, And the kny G can 165 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: measure that activity, and so you have different types of 166 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: brain waves UM from slow to fast. You have delta, theta, alpha, 167 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 1: and bed beta, and we know that delta is associated 168 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: with deep sleep, and on the other end of the spectrum, 169 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: we know that beta is associated when UM, you're working 170 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: on a goal oriented task. Right, So during meditation, what 171 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: we do know is that Theta waves right there there, 172 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: couched right there next to delta, those are the most 173 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: common brain waves in the frontal and middle parts of 174 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: the brain, which are responsible for monitoring other thought processes 175 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: or mental processes. So in other words, this part of 176 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: the brain is basically dialing down the awareness of the 177 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: other brain UM. And of course we're seeing this not 178 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: in just like a casual meditators. We're seeing this and 179 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: people who are highly experienced meditators UM. And then we 180 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: also see that alpha waves show up in the posterior 181 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: parts of the brain and this indicates a wakeful rest UM. 182 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 1: A study described in Science Daily brain Waves and Meditation 183 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: makes the connection that the brain wave activity is much 184 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: more changed in groups of meditators than groups who just 185 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: relax UM. So the extrapolation is that the brain is 186 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: able to relax and focus a lot more in this 187 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: meditative state. So there's definitely a difference because some people think, well, 188 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: can I just sit there and relax, I can watch TV, 189 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: I can read a book, or I can just sit there, 190 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: but not necessarily meditate. The fact is is that you 191 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: still have your brain engaged different parts in in um thinking, right. Yeah, 192 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: Like people often talk about well, I'm just gonna go 193 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: home and turn off my brain and by that and 194 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: I mean watching TV. But yeah, it's it's different things 195 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: are going on. So while if you're just trying your 196 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: hand at meditation, or or certainly if you're inspired to 197 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: give meditation to try after listening to this podcast, and 198 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: by all means, do and write us and tell us 199 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: what you think. Um, just you know, you may find 200 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: yourself setting there going, well, I'm sitting here doing nothing. 201 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: I sure could whip out my smartphone and check my 202 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: email as long as I'm setting here, or or I 203 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: could start thinking about this or it wouldn't be better off, 204 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 1: you know, catching up on the show. I just started 205 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 1: watching an HBO or some thing. But but that's you're 206 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:03,839 Speaker 1: then you're engaging different parts of your brain, and you're 207 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: you're bringing in a lot of mental activity that you're 208 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: ideally trying to remove. From that vortex, right, because they're 209 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: bombard at all the time. Right. And actually I think 210 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: this is probably a good time to talk about memes, right. Yes, Um, 211 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: we've talked about Susan Blackmore. She is m ameticist and um, 212 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: she's built on Richard dawkins selfish gene premise that our 213 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: genes carrying carry on only to perpetuate themselves sort of 214 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:31,959 Speaker 1: regardless of the Organismy hair too, she has multicolored hair. 215 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: She's pretty wonderful. It's just from like a rock star 216 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: of this area. Um. And Dawkins also said that we've 217 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: created a cultural equivalent in something he calls memes. So 218 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: this is the spread of ideas that compete to become 219 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: part of our cultural fabric, and not even just our 220 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: cultural fabric, but on an individual basis, the things that 221 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: you hear, the words, the ideas that sort of uh 222 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: come together in this mosaic for each person. Um, those 223 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: are all competing things, right, and um, it's a it's 224 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 1: the brain chatter really that we experienced on a day 225 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 1: to day level. And it's the songs we hear, it's 226 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: the conversation we pick up, it's the imagined dialogues in 227 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: her head right, um, And it's the effort of the 228 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: brain to to sort of, you know, steer the car 229 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 1: left when you're actually reremembering a past event or a conversation. 230 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: These are all the things that are crowding us up. 231 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: And Susan Blackmore talks about memes extensively, and she actually 232 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: talks about teams, to which she says, is technology just 233 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: giving us iterations of memes? Which is for another day. 234 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: But memes and meditation is something really important to her 235 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: because not only she in a metasis, but she is 236 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: she's like a zen meditation practitioner twenty five years now. Yeah. 237 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: And in John Horgan's book Rational Mysticism, he actually interviews 238 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: her about her view on memes and meditation, and this 239 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: is sort of him summarizing her thoughts on the topic. 240 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: He says, we do not perceive the world directly as 241 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: it truly is. We actively constructed. We construct ourselves to 242 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: our ordinary waking self is as artificial, invented, and illusory 243 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: as the ethereal double selves. We hallucinate in dreams and 244 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: out of body experiences. Once we learn this fact and 245 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: fully realize it in every moment of our lives, we 246 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: can wait from the meme dream, and this is something 247 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: she talks about all the time, the meme dream. All 248 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: of this information that we're trying to um just percolate 249 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: in our brains. Um. And and remember too, this is 250 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: interesting when you think about the fact that of what 251 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: we perceive when we enter a room isn't necessarily coming 252 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: through our eyes. It's actually how we are interpreting and 253 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: inferring the data that we see. So again we've we've 254 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: got all this happening at once. So according to Blackmore, 255 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: she says that mentation is not going to make you smarter, richer, healthier. 256 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: It's really about pruning back those memes. Yeah. Yeah, and 257 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: it's um again. It brings back down this idea of 258 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 1: there's there's the world as it is, and then there 259 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: is the world as we see it, and that the 260 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: world as we see it is influenced by all these 261 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: memes and all these thought processes and UH and meditation 262 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: often comes back to the idea of turning a lot 263 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: of this off and and seeing the room as the room. Yeah. 264 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: And actually Blackmore has a bone to pick too with 265 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: with meditators and um in meditating in general, which we 266 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: will get to right after this quick break. This presentation 267 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: is brought to you by Intel sponsors of tomorrow. Yeah. 268 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: Actually Blackmore can argue, shoot, and in fact will that 269 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: it's nearly impossible to get consistent data to tell us 270 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: a coherent story about the effects of meditation. And one 271 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: part is, even though I swiftly divided meditation into two types, 272 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: there are so many different styles of medica titation and 273 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: methods of meditation. I mean, just think of it, you know, 274 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: talking about reducing the vortex to one single color instead 275 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: of a dozen at once. Well, they're just they're just 276 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: imagine that there are any number of colors you could 277 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: make that vortex b um and so so there there's 278 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: If you start looking around for ways to meditate, you 279 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: will find lots of examples, and you can't study all 280 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: of them in a scientific study. You have to pick 281 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: something and go with it, and so you inevitably do 282 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: not have a complete picture of meditation as a global phenomena. Well, 283 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: and her problem with it too is that once you 284 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: try to quantitate results, you're trying to apply an agenda 285 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: to something that doesn't necessarily have an agenda, right, because again, 286 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: meditation is not it is not it should not be 287 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: and it's more traditional forms. It should not be I 288 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: will meditate now to try and make myself healthier. But 289 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: it's not that kind of thing. And I don't know 290 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: why someone would talk like a robot will meditation. Well, 291 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: that's your meditation voice. I think we've heard your dolphin voice, 292 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: your meditation voice. Um. So yeah, I mean that's why 293 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: she says you get wildly different data of sometimes when 294 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: you have two different groups. And part of that too, 295 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: can be because the the actual sample group. Um. She 296 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: tends to say that people who are seeking out meditators, 297 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: they tend to be more anxious and neurotic than average, 298 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: and I know, to report more problems in general, and 299 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: to have taken twice as many drugs as non meditators. 300 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: She's gonna say what kind of drugs or you know. 301 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: But um, in other words, it's not necessarily the sample 302 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: group that you want to test, uh, in order to 303 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: get sort of like across the board, even reliable results. 304 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: Now this is her talking about in her experience, right, 305 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: Because you have to understand that she's going to workshops 306 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: into very intense like weekend retreats and so on and 307 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: so forth. She's probably dealing with a different animal and 308 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: in terms to the people that she's come across as 309 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: a scientist and hum a practitioner herself. Yeah, and these 310 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: are and she's she's dealing in these cases not with 311 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: casual meditators, That's right. These are people that maybe you 312 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,919 Speaker 1: have more intense personalities, who like her, you know, have 313 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: been practicing this at this very high level for twenty 314 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 1: five years or more. Um, so you know that's it's 315 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: sort of a different animal. Well, then there's also the 316 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: idea that, uh, did you point out that that people 317 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: engaged in meditation are more often to be uh, they're 318 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 1: more open to become immersed in an experience. Correct. Yeah, Yeah, 319 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: that's another thing. And that sort of brought up the 320 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: whole placebo effect which we've talked about before. If you 321 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: have a group that is ready, willing and able to 322 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: do something, then it may not bear out the same 323 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: results as another group that is like, oh okay, I'll 324 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: just try out this meditation thing and see what sort 325 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: of results I get. Yeah, I mean just imagine the 326 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,360 Speaker 1: difference if you were to say, hey, guys, I need 327 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: ten people like you advertising about I need ten people 328 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: for a meditation study, and then so you get ten 329 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: people are like, yeah, I totally will blow a Saturday 330 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: on a meditation study versus if you just went out 331 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: on the street and we're like, all right, you you 332 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: you you, and you get here meditation study. Now, it's 333 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,239 Speaker 1: going to be a rather different results that imagine, right, right, 334 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: they're already sort of doing up this idea that they're 335 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: going to have some sort of benefit from this, and 336 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 1: particularly in group meditation, you see this too, because it's 337 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: sort of another issue of community and socialization. Um. She 338 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: talks about the Maharishi effect. Yes, yeah, And we're not 339 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: going to pick on transcendental meditation because actually, as a technique, um, 340 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 1: it is supposedly very helpful. Um. But I think she 341 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: is picking on Maharishi, referring to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, known 342 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 1: as the Beatles Guru. I think, to most people, who 343 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: is the founder of transcendental meditation? Yeah, I mean one 344 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: of our problems here is that you have the Maryashi 345 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: International University in Fairfield, Iowa, and they publish their own 346 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: publications with different studies and regarding the effects of transcendental 347 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: medica meditation. So yeah, I eat non peer reviews. Yeah yeah, 348 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: So no no challenge here so yeah, look look for 349 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: that as you're looking at different results, you know, in 350 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 1: different website, which is for the positive effects of meditation. 351 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: Now the Mariachi Mariachi effect, that would be something entirely different. 352 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: The my mind still wants to say Mariachi Maharishi. Yes, 353 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 1: the Maharishi effect. Um. This comes down to the most 354 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: in its most phenomenal example would be that one percent 355 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: of the population gets together, meditates and changes the world. 356 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 1: This is a claim, right, that that there's less crime 357 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: as a result of meditation. That's one claim, one percent 358 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: less because these all the people okating can no longer 359 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: be you know, only if you picked hard in criminals. 360 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: It seems like with that statistically match up. Okay, And 361 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: of course the people have tried to run this through 362 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: mathematical models and it's not burying out. That's not a surprise, 363 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: right for for a number of reasons. Um. And then 364 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: another claim is that they could influence the weather. Yeah, 365 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: and the last they could levitate. Yeah. Well, if you 366 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: know enough about the weather, then the weather claim is 367 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: just as ridiculous as as levitation, because the weather, whether 368 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 1: it's such a complex system based on global phenomena and 369 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: it's just really complicated. And I mean the idea that 370 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: you can influence that with your thought, that's and and 371 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: influence that with meditation is rather far fetched. As far 372 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: fetched I think as one individual rising above um the 373 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 1: ground on like a I don't know, a cushion of 374 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,719 Speaker 1: pure thought. Yeah, And that's what black MOR's beef is, right. 375 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: I mean she's basically saying, I am a practitioner. I 376 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: do this. I think that it has its benefits. Um. 377 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: But you know, you've got this other group that I 378 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 1: was making sort of wild claims and detracting from from 379 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,239 Speaker 1: what actually is a helpful and useful practice. I mean. 380 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: The good news, though, I mean, okay, bad news is 381 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,479 Speaker 1: not You're probably not going to float into the air, right, 382 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: You're probably not going to reach a sort of uh 383 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: nervonic state which you're just gliding around on your own 384 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: magic carpet. Right. Yes, that's bad news. The good news 385 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: is that we already know about neuroplasticity, right. We know 386 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: that we can change our minds to the degree that 387 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: we can exercise so to speak, the muscles again, so 388 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: to speak, in our brain. And we've seen this when 389 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: we talked about music in the mind and how in musicians, 390 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: there are particular areas of mind that are much more 391 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,679 Speaker 1: developed than in other non musicians. You see the same 392 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: thing with people who are highly competent meditators, that they 393 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: are parts of their brain that can actually expand and um. 394 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: And they've actually seen this in studies about compassion before, 395 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,239 Speaker 1: the ability to become more compassionate. Well, and that's like 396 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: you you look at the at the Buddhist teachings and 397 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: I mean that's one of the core reasons for meditation, 398 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: is the idea that compassion arises from all of this 399 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,479 Speaker 1: and that's world changing, right. I mean, you don't have 400 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 1: to levitate to change the world. Yeah, yeah, that Yeah, 401 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 1: the idea is that we we we erased this idea 402 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: of self, the ego that steers this wrong sort of 403 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: goes away, and then we're able to experience compassions. Yeah. 404 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,959 Speaker 1: And it just made me remember to um, this this 405 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: idea of compassion and oneness, right, because this is the 406 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: sort of feeling and you've talked about before. They can 407 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: religion and chanting again, this is in music too. These 408 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: are these are all sort of things that help erase 409 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: the ego and make you feel like you're something part 410 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: of part of something that's bigger than yourself, right. Yeah, 411 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: Like I've often heard like ego described as I mean, 412 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: I think we've discussed in the past about like traumatic 413 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: experiences arising. Um, you experience something traumatic and then the 414 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 1: memories really begin to take hold as you form a 415 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: story about it, which is to say, I don't know. Like, 416 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: let's say, um, uh, you know, somebody cuts you off 417 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: while you're trying to drive to work, and that may 418 00:22:58,359 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: be kind of you might have a like a reaction 419 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: the vote, Well, that's irritating. But then if you were 420 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: to continue to continue to stew over it, and you 421 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: create the story where it's like, I somebody cutting me off. 422 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 1: You know this happened to me. I was in this 423 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,719 Speaker 1: situation where I was wrong. We create a story at 424 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: which we're the center because we're the ego and uh 425 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: and and our egos are almost all out of control 426 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: and uh and and so we we end up caught 427 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: up in that story. Right, Yeah, you're caught up in 428 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 1: the story you have these emotions. Uh And In fact, 429 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: there's another piece of information from Rational Mysticism by John Horny. 430 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: He talks to a guy named James Austin. He's a 431 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: neural biologist, and he himself a Zen Buddhist, and he's 432 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: the author of Zen in the Brain. And he talks 433 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: about those events that you described um as a neural 434 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: pruning if you can get rid of that experience through 435 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 1: meditation um. This is from the book in Rational Mysticism 436 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: Mysticism quote. He compares meditation to sculpture or etching, which 437 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 1: also yates by taking away. He means this analogy literally. 438 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: He cites evidence from animal studies that neurochemicals such as 439 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: L glutamate, aspirate, and nitric oxide can act as excito 440 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 1: toxins which destroy specific types of neurons and specific regions 441 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: of the brain by over stimulating them. Released by mystical 442 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: experiences such as meditating. Right, um, excitic ns can be 443 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: potent agents Austin rights prompting and kind of highly localized 444 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 1: etching away within certain vital regions of our brain. Right. So, basically, 445 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: as we lose neurons, we also shed beliefs, obsessions, and 446 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 1: emotions that distort our view of reality. Says John Horgan. 447 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: This is a very fascinating book, by the way, for 448 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: anybody who's interested and um science and mysticism. It's called 449 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: rational mysticism. But again, here's this idea, and it's sort 450 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: of extrapolating on what Susan Blackmore said, which is, you know, 451 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: you take all of these memes, you call them down 452 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: and and here here on a you know, a logical level, 453 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: it's being done. These excytotoxins are releasing this experience for you. 454 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: Another example that comes to mind as a study we 455 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: were looking at two thousand seven U c L a 456 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: study from psychologist Matthew Lieberman and uh and in this 457 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 1: study suggests that that when you name emotions, you contame them. 458 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: You can. It's it's kind of the idea, the idea 459 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 1: of a lot of meditation again comes down to recognizing 460 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 1: what's going on in your own thought processes and realizing, hey, 461 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 1: I'm being an egotistical jerk about this. I shouldn't do that, 462 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: as opposed to just being an egotistical jerk and not 463 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: realizing it, which is, you know what most people do? 464 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: Um and, well, what everybody does at some point. And 465 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: this is the mindfulness perspect right, that you're being mindful 466 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 1: of what's going on in your thought process right, So 467 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: how do you study this? Right? Well? Uh, lie Reman 468 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: took in his college. That colleagues, they took about thirty 469 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: people and they hooked him up to F M R. 470 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: Eyes and he showed them photos of men and women's 471 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: emotional expressions. All right, And when the and and they 472 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,959 Speaker 1: would they would choose labels for these emotions that they 473 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: saw in the picture, They're like, oh, well, that guy's matt, 474 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: that guy's constipated, et cetera. I don't think constipation was 475 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: one of them. I don't know. Maybe it is an emotion. 476 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,719 Speaker 1: I don't know. But well, we've discussed before the digestion 477 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: is is strongly linked to our mind, is your second brain. 478 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 1: But anyway, so there, UM, when the participants would would 479 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: choose labels for negative emotions, um, it would it would 480 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: stir activity in the right ventralateral prefrontal cortex region. This 481 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: is the area associated with thinking in words about emotional experiences, 482 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: so naming them, whereas activity in the amygdala, the brain 483 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: region involved in emotional processing, uh, stuff there would calm down. 484 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: So it's it's the direct correlation there is like I'm 485 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: I'm realizing this is anger, and then I'm experiencing anger 486 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: less for realizing It's like I'm stepping outside of it 487 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 1: and looking at it, and then I'm giving just a 488 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: little bit of of of distance from it. You know. Well, 489 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: that's interesting too, because if you've gone through meditation practice 490 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: before a lot of times, um, you'll be advised to 491 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: name something and let it go right. Um, Like a 492 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: thought comes into your head, you say, okay, the color 493 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 1: blue goes away, or something, some sort of remembrance of 494 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 1: something that happened today, I was angry about something. It's 495 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: sort of the same thing, right, because that's on the 496 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: on the road to meditation. You have to sort of 497 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: name all these things and and let them float away 498 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: from you in order to get in this I guess, 499 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: cleaner space in your head. So it's interesting that once 500 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: you do that, the amygdala kind of goes Okay, we're 501 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: just gonna be calm here because we've done the job 502 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: here of of tagging what we need to. Well, there 503 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: you go, meditation. Now for the next two hours of 504 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,199 Speaker 1: this podcast, we're going to do a guide. Admit. Oh 505 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,719 Speaker 1: wait now, very signaling me that that's out. Yeah, we 506 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 1: were going to chant and everything. You're out of time 507 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: for that, man, No real love, no, no, we're not 508 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,439 Speaker 1: doing it. It's gone canceled. Shut it down, all right, 509 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: So um, yeah, we can't do that. Um and uh. 510 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: And since we've gone a little long, I'm actually going 511 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,159 Speaker 1: to skip the listener mail as well, but we'll come 512 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: back to that in future episodes of course. And in 513 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 1: the meantime, if you have any tidbits about meditation, um, 514 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 1: you can come check out our Facebook and Twitter feeds. 515 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: We are blow the mind on both of those and 516 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 1: we would really love to hear from any We'd love 517 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: to hear from from people who are just trying meditation 518 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 1: for the first time and their own experiences with what 519 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,479 Speaker 1: it's like. We'd also love to hear from people who 520 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: have been meditating for ages, you know, people who feel 521 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: like they're they're experts at it or or at least 522 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: are well versed in it, and to hear what you 523 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: have to say about this podcast. Yeah. Absolutely, And we 524 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: also have a great article too about the Maharishi, the 525 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: Beatles and what they all have to do with bringing 526 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: yoga to the West. So just make sure that you 527 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: pop it in our handy search bar any of those 528 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: terms Beetles, Yoga, Maharishi. Yeah, and if you're wondering about 529 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: meditation in pain, we have an article called meditating before 530 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: or during surgery Decrease your Pain by Julia Layton Um. 531 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: You'll find that on the homepage as well. Yep, and 532 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: please do drop us a line, and you can do 533 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: so at Below the Mind at how stuff works dot com. 534 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit 535 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. To learn more about the podcast, 536 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: click on the podcast icon in the upper right corner 537 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: of our homepage. The how stuff Works iPhone app has 538 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: a RYE. Download it today on iTunes.