Speaker 1: The following Here's a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. Cowboys, Let's go. Are
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Speaker 1: Cowboys dot Com. Were with Nick Eatman, David Hellman, and
Speaker 1: bar Garcia and Derek Eagleton. It is Wednesday, April sixth,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, Season eighteen, episode number three. Welcome to
Speaker 1: the latest edition of The Break Life and Nest WBC
Speaker 1: Mortgage Studios. At the started day, we're talking draft. We're
Speaker 1: gonna get you guys ready these next few shows, get
Speaker 1: you ready for draft. It's happening later this month into
Speaker 1: the month actually, and I know Dave's been doing a
Speaker 1: lot of work on that in his his appearances on
Speaker 1: the Draft Show. Nick, I'm sure he is writing lots
Speaker 1: of great articles and Hamberg's getting a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: ready for somost. So we got a lot of information
Speaker 1: that we were gonna digest that we're gonna give you,
Speaker 1: guys for you to digest over the next few weeks
Speaker 1: getting ready for the Cowboys Draft. Here in late April,
Speaker 1: how's everybody doing today? Great? Good? Wow, that was loud. Sorry, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm a little confused about something. So I'm glad we're
Speaker 1: talking draft because I do have a question. You want
Speaker 1: to throw it out there, Let's let's get it out
Speaker 1: there in the open, right. Typically when you have a question,
Speaker 1: it takes up like twenty five minutes of the show.
Speaker 1: So yeah, let's get into it. I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: about it. And one of the names that has been
Speaker 1: one of the most popular names when it comes to
Speaker 1: the Cowboys in their first pack at twenty four is
Speaker 1: a center, Tyler under Bomb. But uh yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: I haven't really studied much about him or learned much
Speaker 1: about like can he play other positions? You know, why
Speaker 1: is that name? Why is this center? And I know, Nick,
Speaker 1: it's kind of gearing tours the change of or let's say,
Speaker 1: an upgrade at center, but just in general, like me personally,
Speaker 1: I don't see that as the biggest necessity on the
Speaker 1: oh line. But why is the name like that a
Speaker 1: center being so popular for the Cowboys right now? Because
Speaker 1: centers not a position that's typically valued heavily in the draft.
Speaker 1: You know, Travis Frederick was drafted thirty first overall, and
Speaker 1: people thought it was a bad pick. People tend to
Speaker 1: think you can find a good center later in the draft.
Speaker 1: So when a center comes along that has really good pedigree,
Speaker 1: like a surefire first round pick, that's kind of rare.
Speaker 1: Tyler Linderbaum dominated at Iowa. You won the Remington Trophy,
Speaker 1: which is what they give to the best center in
Speaker 1: college football. His tape is outstanding. Again, like it's it's
Speaker 1: rare to have a draft class where you're like, this
Speaker 1: center is going to go in the first round, Like
Speaker 1: that doesn't happen very often. And I tend to agree
Speaker 1: with you. I think I think Tyler beotis kind of,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, is kind of a convenient scapegoat, like
Speaker 1: he's certainly he's not Travis Frederick. I think we've talked
Speaker 1: about this before, like they could upgrade the position. But
Speaker 1: I do agree with you that there are bigger problems,
Speaker 1: namely right now left guard. In my opinion, but I
Speaker 1: just think people see they're basically we weren't very good
Speaker 1: at center. There's a great center in the draft. He
Speaker 1: kind of fits into the range of where the Cowboys pick,
Speaker 1: and it just makes sense. How much do you think
Speaker 1: this offensive line going from what it was when they
Speaker 1: were at their peak here a few years ago to
Speaker 1: where they are now is about the fact that they
Speaker 1: know along a half of Travis Frederick and maybe getting
Speaker 1: a dominant, more dominant center maybe makes gets them back
Speaker 1: to that area. Yeah, I hate to be a buzz
Speaker 1: kill a few years ago. I mean they were at
Speaker 1: their peak in twenty sixteen. I mean that's feeling like
Speaker 1: ancient history at this point. Yeah, I think having it
Speaker 1: we're in another building, believe it or not. Yea, having
Speaker 1: an all pro center, yes, huge, Travis Frederick is vastly underrated.
Speaker 1: Tyrn Smith was a lot healthier back then. Ron Leary
Speaker 1: was the best left guard of the era that I've
Speaker 1: covered the team probably and all of those things tie together. Sorry, Nick,
Speaker 1: I didn't cut you off. No, I think it's true. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that Frederick that's a big part of it.
Speaker 1: And then also, like you said, Tyrn Smith being injured
Speaker 1: us I think a bigger issue. But anytime you got
Speaker 1: a guy that's making the line calls there, anytime you
Speaker 1: got a guy making the line calls, I think that's
Speaker 1: going to be the biggest issue. Is the fact that
Speaker 1: like just they don't have the continuity that they had before,
Speaker 1: and I think, be honest, has got a lot of issues.
Speaker 1: Strength is one of them. And then just just kind
Speaker 1: of understanding the game as a young player, and you know,
Speaker 1: not everybody did it as smoothly as Frederick does. Do
Speaker 1: you think that? And I know we've talked about this
Speaker 1: in previous weeks, but to Amber's point, do you think
Speaker 1: that maybe the reason why the Cowboys would consider, if
Speaker 1: they really are considering a center that high, is because
Speaker 1: they feel like if you get a more dominant center,
Speaker 1: it helps your left guard problem. And maybe Connor mcgovernment
Speaker 1: becomes viable at that point. I don't know, maybe not,
Speaker 1: but I'm just saying maybe that's the way they're looking
Speaker 1: at is you give me a dominant center, maybe my
Speaker 1: left guard becomes a little less of a problem. I
Speaker 1: think you can apply that to either spot. Really, I mean,
Speaker 1: Zion Johnson and Kenyan Greener names you're going to hear
Speaker 1: a lot too if you haven't already. They're arguably the
Speaker 1: best guards in this class. I think one of them
Speaker 1: could make Tyler Beotish look a lot better. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean making the calls and again I learned this
Speaker 1: from Brian Broadus, Like just go watch tape of Travis
Speaker 1: Frederick or any like great center and the way that
Speaker 1: they are able to cut a defense in half by
Speaker 1: holding the point of attack in the middle. It's invaluable.
Speaker 1: You don't like, you take linebackers out of the play.
Speaker 1: You cut off a lot of backside tackles. I think
Speaker 1: they missed that tremendously and that Yeah, identifying things before
Speaker 1: the snap, Tyler Linderbaum would make this team a lot
Speaker 1: better in a hurry, I think. I know. I said
Speaker 1: I didn't think Beotish was a big problem, but I
Speaker 1: do think that would be an upgrade. Yeah, Which that's
Speaker 1: the thing about the draft too. You kind of want
Speaker 1: to be in a position where you can draft players.
Speaker 1: I'll just make you better, not necessary. I got to
Speaker 1: feel holes, and that's why you would hope going into
Speaker 1: the draft they don't have a lot of glaring holes.
Speaker 1: Why we're just making eyeball emojis at the left guard
Speaker 1: spot right now, Like, what the hell's going on? Right?
Speaker 1: I mean, if you ever ever you remember that one
Speaker 1: center that wasn't very smart, neither that doesn't happen. The
Speaker 1: good centers are the ones that understand the game. They
Speaker 1: understand what's happening before it even gets there. So I
Speaker 1: think that that's also invaluable too, just to have a
Speaker 1: guy that knows kind of what the defense is trying
Speaker 1: to do and they can get everybody in order. I mean,
Speaker 1: Mark Stavnoski wasn't the best center. I mean it wasn't
Speaker 1: the best player on that little lines, but he was
Speaker 1: kind of the anchor there because he kind of you know,
Speaker 1: keeps it, keeps it all going and under and gets
Speaker 1: everybody kind of in position to see what's happening next.
Speaker 1: All right, to your point and why you were taught
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, having someone that can help the
Speaker 1: guy next to you, I mean I think would you
Speaker 1: rather have that person be in the center or would
Speaker 1: you rather have that person be the guy that's on
Speaker 1: guard playing guard in a scenario where maybe a guy
Speaker 1: like Tyrn Smith goes out at some point, then you have,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like who's then at left
Speaker 1: tackle at that point? And how much like you know,
Speaker 1: who would be more? Where is the experience the most
Speaker 1: beneficial within the old line? And to me, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say it's centered right now. Well, but here's the issue.
Speaker 1: What I think it still comes back to is and Dave,
Speaker 1: you mentioned a couple of guards. Is Linda Round better
Speaker 1: than those guards? If he's better than those guards, I
Speaker 1: don't want the Cowboys going into a draft saying, what,
Speaker 1: we really need a guard, so let's pass up a
Speaker 1: better center in order to get a lesser guard just
Speaker 1: because we think we need a guard. I think take
Speaker 1: the better player, which is again why I don't think
Speaker 1: it's ever a good idea to go into the draft
Speaker 1: with glaring holes, because you got holes, then you got
Speaker 1: just feel the whole, and you take a lesser player
Speaker 1: sometimes than taking the better player. Okay, I was just
Speaker 1: taking they have not. So it does as Dave was saying,
Speaker 1: you got those big guys looking might not look guard
Speaker 1: like that, looks like a glaring holder. They don't. They
Speaker 1: don't even think like that. They don't even think about
Speaker 1: this year's team. I think they're looking at it. Who's
Speaker 1: the better player in three years? Who's going to be
Speaker 1: the better player or the center or this guard or
Speaker 1: this tackle. Honestly, I mean we're forgetting the tackles, but
Speaker 1: I think I think if they're if if it's all equal,
Speaker 1: if there's a guard, a center, and a tackle that
Speaker 1: are all sitting there that are equal. I think they
Speaker 1: take the tackle. I don't know how much that helps
Speaker 1: you this year, But they don't always look at it
Speaker 1: that way. Yeah no, and that's Karti Wood because if
Speaker 1: he doesn't win, he's probably not the coach. Yeah right,
Speaker 1: But I don't think they look at it that way.
Speaker 1: That's that's good in a vacuum, that's what they should do.
Speaker 1: But that's what makes this so weird is they haven't
Speaker 1: done They're not They have not done things they need
Speaker 1: to do to make this team viable. Like if they would,
Speaker 1: it's small practice to go into a draft like, man,
Speaker 1: we better come out of here with one of these guards.
Speaker 1: But that's what it looks like right now. Their options
Speaker 1: are a seventh round pick and a guy that they
Speaker 1: benched when they gave him a chance last year, and
Speaker 1: they're the only swing tackle right now is a fourth
Speaker 1: round pick who didn't play a snap. And it's cool.
Speaker 1: McCarthy mentioned Matt Farniac and Josh Ball by name when
Speaker 1: we asked him about it last week at the owner's meetings.
Speaker 1: But the great Bradsham it left a big impression on me.
Speaker 1: He once said, hope is not a strategy, and hoping
Speaker 1: that those guys look great during the season because they're
Speaker 1: out here working out doesn't make me feel any better.
Speaker 1: I don't know about anybody else. You think they have
Speaker 1: a different opinion of McGovern than what they have shown
Speaker 1: or telling us, perhaps, But what they've shown is that
Speaker 1: they gave him a chance and then they benched him
Speaker 1: for guy that had no future being here, Right, that's
Speaker 1: point they've shown. They've not shown us they haven't trust
Speaker 1: in him, But the fact that they haven't signed anybody,
Speaker 1: maybe they're showing us that they maybe do have some
Speaker 1: trust in him. Dead guys that are out there aren't better, right.
Speaker 1: Actions speak a hell of a lot louder than words.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, they gave him a shot, and it
Speaker 1: may for what Nick just said, it makes all the
Speaker 1: sense in the world to leave him in there, and
Speaker 1: they didn't. So and maybe maybe they're right, maybe the
Speaker 1: guys available aren't better. But we all really saw it
Speaker 1: with Terrence Steele when everybody thought he was terrible, they
Speaker 1: kept him in there, so we know they've done it.
Speaker 1: I have a different and they kept doing it because
Speaker 1: they had faith. They gave him the hook. They were like, no,
Speaker 1: thank you, We'll go back to the other honor. I
Speaker 1: do kind of think that's the way they look at
Speaker 1: Beadiest a little bit. I think they look at him
Speaker 1: like Terren Steele. I think they think he's an ascending player.
Speaker 1: I think that's what they believe. But I get like,
Speaker 1: that's honestly, that's fine with me. Like I do not
Speaker 1: think Tyler is the I don't think he's this problem
Speaker 1: that must be fixed right now. Like I said, lender
Speaker 1: Bomb's there and you feel good about it, do it.
Speaker 1: But I'm not one of these people that's like, they
Speaker 1: gotta come out of this draft with Tyler under bomb.
Speaker 1: But I'm sitting here right now thinking, like, man, it
Speaker 1: might be kind of dicey for y'all if you don't
Speaker 1: find a way to get a guard with one of
Speaker 1: your first two picks. But sometimes, though, you do have
Speaker 1: to look at the entire class, look at it and
Speaker 1: go all right, if we want to get a guard
Speaker 1: and a center, we get linderbaumb here at center. He's
Speaker 1: better than Beyondest and he plays immediately. If we get
Speaker 1: a guard here and we want to get a center later,
Speaker 1: that we're just getting another another Farniac or be honest
Speaker 1: in the fourth or fifth round, and then we're trying
Speaker 1: to figure you know what I mean. So if they
Speaker 1: might look at it and go guard, we could probably
Speaker 1: still get a guard in the second, third, or fourth
Speaker 1: round that could compete with McGovern. If we don't get
Speaker 1: the center here, that we're not going to get one.
Speaker 1: That's a good point. Yeah, And that's all the fine
Speaker 1: points of drafting that you don't really think about when
Speaker 1: you're just looking at it in a vacuum, like, well,
Speaker 1: you gotta make this pick here, and you gotta make
Speaker 1: this pick here. There's a bigger picture to it, and
Speaker 1: there's a story there. I mean, Bill Parcels did it
Speaker 1: in the second round. He wanted Jason Witten, but he
Speaker 1: didn't take him because he didn't he thought they were
Speaker 1: way more tight ends available. There's not another center. He
Speaker 1: took Al Johnson, Yeah, and stayed. He ripped the door off.
Speaker 1: He was practiced about it and so but he ended
Speaker 1: up getting him in the third round and he turned anywhere,
Speaker 1: turned out to be a good player. And now he's
Speaker 1: out of mur and Al Johnson is a Johnson? Where
Speaker 1: is Al Johnson? Al Johnson is coaching Division two football.
Speaker 1: We believe in East Central University in Oklahoma. Good stuff.
Speaker 1: He's had two years and he's been a pretty good
Speaker 1: coach there. Head coach, head coach Division two football, Al Johnson. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let it go. All right, here's what we're gonna do. Uh.
Speaker 1: I figured today what I wanted to do on the
Speaker 1: topic of draft is I want to go back and
Speaker 1: look at the last five years of drafts because I
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of you know, I think the
Speaker 1: general consensus around media types and fans is at the
Speaker 1: Cowboys draft pretty well. But I do think when you
Speaker 1: look at it in isolation, I think there are some
Speaker 1: glaring misses, and I think sometimes fans will look at
Speaker 1: that and they'll be like, man, that just sucks, and
Speaker 1: they're not really thinking about the totality of what they
Speaker 1: did in each year. So what I did was I
Speaker 1: went back and I looked at all of the picks
Speaker 1: for the last five years. I put them in categories
Speaker 1: by the round that they were drafted in. And I'm
Speaker 1: gonna talk to you guys, and I want to get
Speaker 1: your opinions on first like, what would you expect from
Speaker 1: a player selected in this round? And then do you
Speaker 1: think the Cowboys met it in each of these in
Speaker 1: the in the last five years. With the picks that
Speaker 1: they've made, that all makes sense. Yep, all right, bet
Speaker 1: So here's the first round. Let's talk first about Michael
Speaker 1: Parson's last year Ceedee, Lamb, Layton, Vander esh Tackle Charlton.
Speaker 1: Those were the first round picks for the last five years.
Speaker 1: Cowboys did not have a pick in the first round
Speaker 1: the year that they got Tristan Hill in the second round.
Speaker 1: That being said, what do you expect from a first
Speaker 1: round pick? And do you think overall when you look
Speaker 1: at that class of guys, do you think that they've
Speaker 1: met that expectation. I don't have to use my opinion.
Speaker 1: I know what teams think, and so a guy that
Speaker 1: you draft in the first round depending on again, and
Speaker 1: I got to remember too, like the way teams approach
Speaker 1: the draft is so much different than the way we
Speaker 1: talk about it. Pick twenty is not obviously, it's not
Speaker 1: the same as pick one. Pick eight's not the same
Speaker 1: as pick seventeen. Like, most teams have fifteen to twenty
Speaker 1: first round grades on players, so that matters too. So
Speaker 1: if you're a top of the first round grade pick
Speaker 1: one through probably pick ten where Michael was drafted. You're
Speaker 1: supposed to be an immediate impact player and like a
Speaker 1: long term difference maker, just a regular old first round
Speaker 1: grade potential building block player and a first year starter.
Speaker 1: So if you look at that in that vacuum, Mike
Speaker 1: Ka checks the box CD again. Maybe people thought he
Speaker 1: was grade at higher than he wound up being taken.
Speaker 1: But where you take a guy seventeenth, first year starter,
Speaker 1: potential building block absolutely Layton vander Esh, that's tricky. I
Speaker 1: mean that he looked like it. He absolutely looked like that,
Speaker 1: and it hasn't turned out to be the case. It's
Speaker 1: worth note to his credit that they got four years
Speaker 1: of starting ability out of him, but for where he
Speaker 1: was taken and where he was and where it wound
Speaker 1: up going, I think it's fair to call that disappointing.
Speaker 1: And then obviously Taco is just the worst miss of
Speaker 1: the Will McClay era. There's no other way to phrase it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know about that. I mean, I mean your
Speaker 1: twenty eighth overall pick. I mean, who's worse. Well, I
Speaker 1: mean what they did the next year was just as bad,
Speaker 1: don't you think. I mean Tristan Hill yeah, I mean Cooper.
Speaker 1: Amari Cooper is what I'm talking about. They traded for
Speaker 1: Amari Cooper and then they didn't even resign him and
Speaker 1: keep him a long term Your first round pick played
Speaker 1: three years. That's a bus. That's just like Taco Charlton,
Speaker 1: and it costs you twenty million dollars to do it.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna spend your first round pick and go
Speaker 1: get Amari Cooper, he'd better be a guy that you
Speaker 1: keep long term, not because your offensive coordinators not throwing
Speaker 1: him the ball and it doesn't work out, and he's
Speaker 1: kind of quiet and doesn't have the same ra ra attitude,
Speaker 1: so let's get rid of him. Like, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: a bus as big as anybody else as far as
Speaker 1: I'm concerned. That's your first round pick. And I look
Speaker 1: at it very simple. If you're not going to give
Speaker 1: him a fifth year option, that shows kind of what
Speaker 1: they think. Taco wouldn't even hear Layton didn't get a
Speaker 1: fifth year option. We'll see about CD. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think i'd be hard pressed. I think he doesn't, right,
Speaker 1: I would think probably he will. He's on track for it.
Speaker 1: But that's why I look at it like and I
Speaker 1: think seventeen, eighteen, and nineteen. The guys that were in
Speaker 1: those first round picks or traded for are they didn't
Speaker 1: get first round options, and it just backed into Layton
Speaker 1: because his price went so low they weren't playing on
Speaker 1: keeping him. But he's here. I just disagree in the sense.
Speaker 1: I mean, Amari Cooper was everything he was advertised to be.
Speaker 1: He came in and saved that season. He made their
Speaker 1: passing attack one of the most explosive in the league
Speaker 1: for the time that he was here. They liked him
Speaker 1: enough to sign him to the extension. Remember they traded
Speaker 1: for him, not they were like, we're gonna get like
Speaker 1: eighteen games out of this guy. We don't, I mean,
Speaker 1: we don't know what his long term future is. They
Speaker 1: gave him the deal, and it's it is a purely
Speaker 1: Cowboys decision that he's not here. It's not that he
Speaker 1: wasn't good enough, right but right. That's why when I
Speaker 1: say it was a bust, he's not a bust. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm talking. I'm talking to the cow You're saying the
Speaker 1: Cowboys wasted the first round was the number we heard
Speaker 1: over and over and over when they trade it for him.
Speaker 1: Twenty four that was the number. He's only twenty four,
Speaker 1: ye twenty seven, and he's playing one and they got
Speaker 1: a fifth round pick for him, So that to me
Speaker 1: does not look like a good a good move. And
Speaker 1: they're in cap hell because of some of the moves
Speaker 1: that they made to get him. I mean, so I
Speaker 1: just don't I don't want to just gloss over that
Speaker 1: one and say, well that year, I hear you, and
Speaker 1: I just I mean, look, I think it's asinine that
Speaker 1: he's not on this team. And the fact that they
Speaker 1: were trying trying to trade for DeVante maybe not trying
Speaker 1: to trade, they were interested in trading for DeVante Parker. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they who cost a third round pick and had like
Speaker 1: a seven million dollar cap hit, so like obviously less
Speaker 1: but you're interested in doing all that for a receiver
Speaker 1: when you just already had a guy who, by the way,
Speaker 1: his salary already looks less imposing than it used to
Speaker 1: because like three new guys have signed deals since he
Speaker 1: got traded. Stefan Diggs is a twenty four million dollar player. Now,
Speaker 1: by the way, I think it's ridiculous. But having said
Speaker 1: all of that, and another, by the way, what have
Speaker 1: you done with the money that you say, Mmm, interesting,
Speaker 1: I still say, Taco Charlton just signed with his fifth team.
Speaker 1: He's a Saint now. Yeah, he has eleven and a
Speaker 1: half career sacks. He's never he started seven career games,
Speaker 1: like he was the worst decision objectively than Amari Cooper
Speaker 1: in my opinion, many does Gregory have like seventeen. I'll
Speaker 1: just laugh at it because I mean, he still has
Speaker 1: eleven sacks. Ye, Like, I'm not saying he's a good player,
Speaker 1: and I have said it a thousand times. If his
Speaker 1: name was John Charlton, he would have been a fourth
Speaker 1: round pick. I just think I believe that. I don't
Speaker 1: think that matters. Doesn't Nick tell me that doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: I think, Please tell me that doesn't. I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he would have been a fourth
Speaker 1: round but I I think that just got the novelty
Speaker 1: of a guy named Taco. Guy named Taco, let's get him,
Speaker 1: Like you really think that's the way it goes, Which
Speaker 1: is funny because I think his real name is cooler
Speaker 1: than the name Tacos Dante. Yeah, oh no either God,
Speaker 1: And sometimes I feel like I'm the only one that
Speaker 1: covers this team. No offense, we stick you stick to
Speaker 1: the final. Nobody knew his name was Rained Dakota until
Speaker 1: he started making plays like if this fair, you know,
Speaker 1: if he would have been a backup and right, we
Speaker 1: would all know he could be like his real name's
Speaker 1: not dak Yeah, maybe I'm just a nerd for the details. Well, no,
Speaker 1: you should be in your job and your role. You
Speaker 1: need to be. We don't. Oh no, just I mean,
Speaker 1: I I just think that's objectively a worse decision because
Speaker 1: Amari Amari gave this franchise a lot in my opinion anyway.
Speaker 1: I mean, he helped them get to two playoff appearances.
Speaker 1: What also that decision worse is the fact that they
Speaker 1: wanted a pass rusher they took him. There's been another
Speaker 1: pass rusher that's been Defensive Player of the year. That's
Speaker 1: a That's a great point too, because it's it isn't
Speaker 1: why it's not fair to be like, you know, you
Speaker 1: can't just look at any great player and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: Gavin Escobar could have been Levi on Belts, like they
Speaker 1: didn't need a running back. They never would have done that.
Speaker 1: They were looking at pass rushers that year they brought
Speaker 1: Watt into their building. He absolutely could have been their pick,
Speaker 1: and they screwed it up, all of them. I'm not
Speaker 1: singling anybody out, and they just they all have to
Speaker 1: wear that. I do think though, it has to be
Speaker 1: pointed out. The defensive scheme that he plays in Pittsburgh,
Speaker 1: it's a very different kind of scheme than what they're
Speaker 1: running here. So it does make you wonder change it that, right,
Speaker 1: but maybe so all I'm saying is I do think
Speaker 1: that has to be pointed out. Whether you believe it
Speaker 1: would have made a difference or not, that's a whole
Speaker 1: different conversation, but it's something that should be pointed out.
Speaker 1: The twenty sack players are scheme independent in my opinion, Like,
Speaker 1: I refuse to believe a guy that's capable of tying
Speaker 1: stray Hand's record would be limited by whatever scheme he
Speaker 1: played in. I don't care. And if he would be,
Speaker 1: then nixt right, change it, Yeah, if he doesn't fit
Speaker 1: your scheme, you know. Also, though, to be fair, like
Speaker 1: if he if he was projected as that guy, he
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been picked thirty fifth. Yeah, so everybody thought
Speaker 1: that he was a little less defensive ends in the
Speaker 1: twenties for the Cowboys, haven't really panned out the irony.
Speaker 1: They don't pan out a lot like That's Spencer though,
Speaker 1: wasn't bad. No, he wasn't bad. Hits at end after
Speaker 1: about pick sixteen. I mean they happen, They definitely happen,
Speaker 1: but they're hard to come out they are. Yeah, anyway,
Speaker 1: were you bust say something him? Yeah, I was gonna
Speaker 1: say that. Going back to your initial question to me,
Speaker 1: all those guys are pretty easy to say whether they
Speaker 1: were a bust or no, you know, like it was
Speaker 1: there paid good or not. You know, we talked about
Speaker 1: Taco Charlton, Amari Cooper, Ceedee lamb U, Mica Parsons. But
Speaker 1: the one that thinking about it does get interesting, and
Speaker 1: the only reason is because you're not We're having a
Speaker 1: conversation yesterday and you brought up this point about late
Speaker 1: in Vanderesh is how bad was he or how good
Speaker 1: was he? When you really look at who was surrounding him?
Speaker 1: A guy like Jalen Smith, like could Layton actually been
Speaker 1: a lot better than what he actually was had he
Speaker 1: had some other different kind of support around him? And
Speaker 1: I think that's where that question for him specifically gets
Speaker 1: a little interesting. If you look at if you look
Speaker 1: at it that way, and it makes me really wonder,
Speaker 1: like you guys's opinion on that. Do you think he
Speaker 1: would have turned out to be a different player than
Speaker 1: what he was or husband had he had someone different
Speaker 1: around him? What was his worst year? This last year? Oh?
Speaker 1: You think it was his worst year? And I'm asking
Speaker 1: what do you think was his worst year? Because I
Speaker 1: mean there was a lot of injuries there in between
Speaker 1: the best year, which was his first year, and this
Speaker 1: last year, which I thought he better this year and
Speaker 1: he'd been playing the years before that, so to me,
Speaker 1: but I think a lot of that was sold. There
Speaker 1: was so many injuries and just like, I don't know
Speaker 1: if he ever really kind of got all the way back.
Speaker 1: What point you're making. Are you saying better players around
Speaker 1: him have made him would have made him play better?
Speaker 1: Or are you saying maybe better players around him limited
Speaker 1: him from playing better? You know, because I mean last
Speaker 1: year he had his best linebacker since he's been here,
Speaker 1: was Micah Parsons next to him. Yeah, And I didn't
Speaker 1: think he had a bad year. Again, I thought he
Speaker 1: was better last year than he was the years before.
Speaker 1: The couple of years before that, he he didn't have
Speaker 1: a great year, in my opinion, or like a good year,
Speaker 1: but he was better in the fact that you're not
Speaker 1: watching the game and saying all the time, at least
Speaker 1: for me, God, look at Laton like he's always late
Speaker 1: for this tackle or that you know, like, yes, he's
Speaker 1: had this moment last year, but it wasn't I feel like,
Speaker 1: at least compared to the year before as bad as
Speaker 1: that one. So yes, Mica maybe elevated his game a
Speaker 1: little bit, but also previous years and what did Daylon
Speaker 1: Smith do for him? I don't. I don't think I
Speaker 1: buy that because top twenty picks shouldn't need you're you're
Speaker 1: supposed to be a foundational player should Yeah, but it
Speaker 1: should not. Yeah, but no, I just I think injuries
Speaker 1: robbed him of some of his explosiveness and maybe even
Speaker 1: some of his confidence in the sense that, I mean,
Speaker 1: you kind of got to throw yourself around to be
Speaker 1: a good linebacker, and he got hurt significantly two years
Speaker 1: in a row doing that. And I'm not saying like
Speaker 1: not like he was going half speed or anything or
Speaker 1: like protecting himself. I'm not trying to say that, but
Speaker 1: he just didn't look as explosive or as confident in
Speaker 1: this last season as I remember him as a younger player,
Speaker 1: and I think that's one of the interesting things about
Speaker 1: Sean Lee. Shaun Lee had his mini injuries as anybody
Speaker 1: you can probably name, and probably the reason why I
Speaker 1: kept getting injuried because he never was willing to relent
Speaker 1: and kind of take a step back and kind of
Speaker 1: slow down a little bit, or he just always going
Speaker 1: to be like running and gunning in whatever happens. And
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's normal for a lot of guys.
Speaker 1: In Shawn Lee is in my he's he's damn near
Speaker 1: or one of one, like maybe Witten, But like you know,
Speaker 1: fans want that guy that only cares about football and
Speaker 1: we'll put the team above everything. And we always joke
Speaker 1: that it's really not a realistic way to be about
Speaker 1: human beings. That was Sean Lee. Man. He really didn't
Speaker 1: care about anything other than being ane. That was from
Speaker 1: the get go. I remember being on the train his
Speaker 1: rookie year going from Oxnard to San Diego for a
Speaker 1: preseason game and was supposed to go do an interview.
Speaker 1: This is going to his first preseason game. He's gonna
Speaker 1: go do an interview or something, and he was like
Speaker 1: kind of just he told the PR guys like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing it. I'm not doing this because I'm
Speaker 1: focused on this game and I got to prepare, you know.
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're gonna play twelve snaps baby tomorrow, you know.
Speaker 1: But he was just like, nah, that was from the
Speaker 1: very beginning. He was just football all the way. And
Speaker 1: you wish that that would have rubbed off on more people,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, Jalen Smith was here when he
Speaker 1: was here, and I didn't rub off on him like that.
Speaker 1: I mean, that wasn't Jayalen. That wasn't the way it was.
Speaker 1: That was. That was why that's the whole snake Lee
Speaker 1: thing with Dez. Like Sean, he came out and said it.
Speaker 1: He was like, yeah, I mean des and I butt
Speaker 1: head sometimes about me wanting him to be more committed
Speaker 1: to the craft or the team or whatever. And I
Speaker 1: mean that's why you visit all of that. Ancient. Leadership
Speaker 1: is a very tricky word, it really is, because people
Speaker 1: say it all the time. All he's a leader. A
Speaker 1: lot of times, the loudest guy in the room is
Speaker 1: the leader and also the one that all the younger
Speaker 1: players look to. But that doesn't mean he's leading you
Speaker 1: in the right way. And so, I mean, I think
Speaker 1: Sean Lee certainly was um and I think Whitten was too.
Speaker 1: But you know, leadership you also have to be a
Speaker 1: badass player. You know, you can't just be an average
Speaker 1: player and over there barking signals and all that when
Speaker 1: everyone's like, what are you doing? Yeah, you mess it up.
Speaker 1: You're about to be a basketball He's on my desk.
Speaker 1: How they posted up shun Lee? That's my desk and
Speaker 1: I got I've got a bigger picture on my wall too,
Speaker 1: of a guy that was a pretty good leader too.
Speaker 1: So what does it say about me that the guy
Speaker 1: on my cubicle walls for Rolando McClain, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Its okay, all right, we're gonna take our first break
Speaker 1: when we come back. I have one more question about
Speaker 1: these first round picks. I want to talk about Ceedee
Speaker 1: Lamb and I want to ask you guys a question.
Speaker 1: Where do you project his ceiling to be. Is this
Speaker 1: a guy that can get up to that level of
Speaker 1: top ten wide receiver throughout the NFL? Or is he
Speaker 1: just gonna always be kind of a good wide receiver.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that when we come back to. This
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Speaker 1: brink Sler lenses. Are we ready to go? All? Right?
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Speaker 1: is the second segment of The Break live from the
Speaker 1: SWBC Mortgage studios. At the start, we're talking about the draft,
Speaker 1: and we're talking specifically about previous drafts, what the Cowboys
Speaker 1: have done over the last five years. We're talking about
Speaker 1: the first round. I have one more question for you
Speaker 1: guys about the first round. Where do you see Cede
Speaker 1: Lamb's ceiling? Because I think personally he has been a
Speaker 1: good wide receiver. I don't think he's taken that next
Speaker 1: step to being great. Certainly hasn't gotten to the point
Speaker 1: where you're talking about him among the very best wide
Speaker 1: receivers in the NFL. Do you think his ceiling is
Speaker 1: a high? I think Cede Lamb is a victim of
Speaker 1: pre draft hype because if he was just the seventeenth
Speaker 1: overall pick. I'm looking at his numbers, one hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty three catches for two thousand yards and eleven touchdowns
Speaker 1: through two years. I mean that's objectively good. Yeah, objectively.
Speaker 1: But he was widely seen as the best receiver in
Speaker 1: this class. In the twenty twenty class, the joke for
Speaker 1: years was our joke was team forty Burger. Then there
Speaker 1: was like the whole I can't believe the league messed
Speaker 1: up and let him fall to Dallas. How did this happen?
Speaker 1: Leagues dumb? And the Cowboys are great and a guy
Speaker 1: drafted behind him is having an objectively better career. I mean,
Speaker 1: justin Jefferson looks like the guy we thought CD Lamb
Speaker 1: and Jerry Judy would be. UM, so we always compare
Speaker 1: him to him. I mean always compare him to Jefferson.
Speaker 1: He could compare him to Jalen Rager or Rugs or
Speaker 1: Judy or because the what so Judy, ruggs Lamb Rager
Speaker 1: all went off. So the fifth receiver in the class
Speaker 1: is objectively the best. I mean, that's why we compare him,
Speaker 1: because it's just like, well, the next is CD the
Speaker 1: next best of all those him? Yes? No, And that's
Speaker 1: My thing is like CD is having an objectively good career.
Speaker 1: It's just what he is compared to what people thought
Speaker 1: he would be. Like there is a guy doing what
Speaker 1: we thought CD would be doing. But I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: just I'm gonna throw this out there is justin Jefferson,
Speaker 1: Like is he really a great player? He's got great stats,
Speaker 1: but I mean he's on a team that puts up
Speaker 1: a lot of yards instead and a quarterback that will
Speaker 1: throw it. But I mean it's all hollow. I mean,
Speaker 1: do they do anything, do they win anything. I'm just wondering, like,
Speaker 1: are we sure that he's not doing a lot of
Speaker 1: those Dak fourth quarter things where they just come back
Speaker 1: and he's got all these stats, and I mean, but
Speaker 1: we only compare him to Jefferson. No one compares them
Speaker 1: to Rager or Rugs or those other guys. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think he's been pretty good. He's just been He's
Speaker 1: been really good. And we'll see what happens with a
Speaker 1: Maori not here and now he's the number one. But
Speaker 1: I just I don't I mean, because fifteen or eighteen
Speaker 1: teams missed on Jefferson, I don't think that it should
Speaker 1: factor on Ceedee Lamb. I think about five or ten
Speaker 1: teams missed on Lamb too. Yeah. No, I feel like
Speaker 1: we're saying the same thing, Ceedie. Lamb's having an objectively
Speaker 1: good career, justin Jefferson's having a better one. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: people thought that was what Lamb would do. And you
Speaker 1: can say it's hollow. I mean, it's not like CD's.
Speaker 1: It's not like the Cowboys accomplishments in the same time span.
Speaker 1: They lost one wild card game. I mean the Vikings.
Speaker 1: I don't have their records right in front of me,
Speaker 1: but the Vikings have been in the conversation. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean they've been right there. It seems like they're a
Speaker 1: comparable team to the Cowboys. And they and I'll say this,
Speaker 1: I mean he's had the same situation as CD. He
Speaker 1: had a veteran route running guy on the other side
Speaker 1: that's getting a lot of yards and stats as well.
Speaker 1: And and and Jefferson, like Jefferson just went to a
Speaker 1: team board had a premier running back. Yeah, yeah, they're
Speaker 1: running it is. I don't do anything, that's the thing
Speaker 1: I mean. And that's just my beef with cousins. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I just think he's I think Vikings fans would agree. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but but honestly, like you gotta turn and you turned
Speaker 1: the mirror around, there are a lot of Cowboys. Fans
Speaker 1: are thinking the same thing about the Cowboys right now.
Speaker 1: They're just not they got a lot of talent. He's
Speaker 1: not turned into the kind of talent that I mean.
Speaker 1: They got a lot of people that that male Kiper
Speaker 1: and Todd McShay said, we're talent, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know they got you got guys, And I'm the
Speaker 1: same with the Cowboys. I'm saying cowboys too. You know,
Speaker 1: we think Ceedee Lambs is great talent, but a lot
Speaker 1: of teams passed on him too, like for a reason. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess because he was too skinny. I guess that
Speaker 1: was the reason. I don't size is part of it.
Speaker 1: I think he he just does everything well and isn't
Speaker 1: he doesn't have a super freak trait. I mean, Rugs
Speaker 1: got drafted where he did because of how fast he was.
Speaker 1: Judy was seen as the most polished route runner. Not
Speaker 1: that Lamb can't do it or isn't a good route runner,
Speaker 1: but Judy was seen as better. And people overthink these
Speaker 1: things and you wind up fall into seventeenth when you
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't have. But again, I think we're saying the
Speaker 1: same thing, Like, if none of that narrative existed and
Speaker 1: CD had just been one of like four good receivers
Speaker 1: instead of widely seen as this amazing talent, everyone would
Speaker 1: be very, very pleased with where he is. But because
Speaker 1: of that hype and because a guy drafted after him
Speaker 1: as having a better career, you kind of look at
Speaker 1: it and you're like, Eh, I thought we'd have seen
Speaker 1: more from LAMB. Do you guys think what we've seen
Speaker 1: so far says that he's on track to possibly being
Speaker 1: that upbrechelt of receiver or is it just one of
Speaker 1: those things where you're like, you know, at this point,
Speaker 1: you would have expected him to be more war consistent,
Speaker 1: if that's the thing you think he's missed. I put
Speaker 1: him as my most disappointing player from last year. Huh Yeah,
Speaker 1: And we got killed for it because, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it wasn't DAK but it was it was y CD.
Speaker 1: Because I went to Oxnard, I mean because I was
Speaker 1: there and you were there, and I thought he was
Speaker 1: going to be like the great I thought this was
Speaker 1: Randy Moss and it wasn't and he was beating. He
Speaker 1: was beating a better cornerback every day than than what
Speaker 1: he faced most of the most of the games. Um,
Speaker 1: he didn't make those highlight playmaking type plays where you know,
Speaker 1: and this was this dropped several of them. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: this was Cooper Rush throwing him the ball a lot
Speaker 1: of times, just throwing it up, just go make a play.
Speaker 1: Made it every day. He I mean, he looked like
Speaker 1: he was about to take over the NFL. Yeah, in Knoxnard.
Speaker 1: That's what I was a little disappointed about. Like he said,
Speaker 1: he's still a Pro Bowl player, I mean alternate, but
Speaker 1: he mean he was, what, you know, top ten receiver
Speaker 1: from last year made the Pro Bowl. I thought he
Speaker 1: I thought he had a really good year. I thought
Speaker 1: he was gonna be even better though. What's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: New England. His best game was New England made a
Speaker 1: great high point touchdown in the third or fourth quarter
Speaker 1: and then obviously won the game in overtime. But like,
Speaker 1: other than that, all of my most memorable Seed Lamb
Speaker 1: moments are from his rookie year, like the touchdown against Minnesota,
Speaker 1: the on side kick return, some of the catches down
Speaker 1: the seam, he made against New York and Cleveland. He
Speaker 1: just he was he was good last year. I didn't
Speaker 1: think he was amazing. You talk about hollow. I felt
Speaker 1: like the Pro Bowl was a little bit hollow because
Speaker 1: he was like the second or third alternate to get it.
Speaker 1: He had really good number he did. I feel like
Speaker 1: a jerk because I'm like, oh, he's a disappointing or whatever.
Speaker 1: He just he has not lived up to the gargantuan hype.
Speaker 1: It's not to say he's a bad player. And we're
Speaker 1: gonna find out because they got rid of they got
Speaker 1: rid of a better receiver. He's going to be the
Speaker 1: best receiver on this team unless something even crazier happens.
Speaker 1: It has to be Yeah, yes, I mean I would
Speaker 1: assume so. So it's on him now, Like they clearly
Speaker 1: think he can be the centerpiece of their receiver corps.
Speaker 1: And we're gonna find out the fourth best eighty eight
Speaker 1: right now. Well, he's in this he just obviously, and
Speaker 1: the other two guys are in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: But I'm not I'm not worried about him. He's they're
Speaker 1: gonna pick up his option, Like I'm not worried about
Speaker 1: you know, he's going to Yeah, he's going to keep
Speaker 1: improving and he'll be fine. I think, I honestly think
Speaker 1: this year he's gonna step up and become one of
Speaker 1: those premier receivers because I think we've seen flashes of that.
Speaker 1: We certainly have seen him make some plays. You mentioned
Speaker 1: that Minnesota. I think that's one of the best catches
Speaker 1: I've seen from him. Um, And I think he has
Speaker 1: that ability to do some really remarkable things. I think
Speaker 1: for whatever reason. And by the way, it wasn't just him.
Speaker 1: Last year. You name a guy on this offense that
Speaker 1: was consistent, there wasn't one. It was an inconsistent offense.
Speaker 1: And so I think that you know, this year, if
Speaker 1: they're gonna have any if they're going to be successful,
Speaker 1: it's going to be in a large part because he's
Speaker 1: gonna step up and become that guy that in crunch
Speaker 1: time and games, they're gonna find a way to get
Speaker 1: him the ball. He's gonna make place for him. That's
Speaker 1: how they're gonna win. I don't want to hear this
Speaker 1: a MARII Cooper crap with this with this one next time,
Speaker 1: because again we've brought this up before. Yeah, you talk
Speaker 1: about like a Mari not getting involved or not being
Speaker 1: able to find him. They didn't target CD until the
Speaker 1: second half of the playoff loss. That's a problem. It
Speaker 1: is a gigantic problem problem. That's what it makes me wonder, like,
Speaker 1: makes me anxious to see what's going to happen exactly
Speaker 1: next year, because although I don't think that Cilli Lamb
Speaker 1: has reached his ceiling and he has a lot more
Speaker 1: to show, I believe that. I think that right now,
Speaker 1: the way that the team currently stands and what they
Speaker 1: have talent wise, they've taken a step backwards and you're
Speaker 1: not really having the right tools around players like him
Speaker 1: for him to be able to succeed. And by that
Speaker 1: I mean obviously the old line, what's going to happen there,
Speaker 1: that's obviously going to affect the passing game and Celi Lamb. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's made some great catches and all, yeah, but I
Speaker 1: also have a very fresh memory of drops that he's made,
Speaker 1: things that he should have caught, things that you want
Speaker 1: your number one guy to catch, and that's gonna be
Speaker 1: his role now. And also the one game that Amari
Speaker 1: Cooper didn't play and that you were counting on Ceedee lamb.
Speaker 1: I mean, the coaching staff is going to have to
Speaker 1: figure something out to make to allow him to play better.
Speaker 1: But that one game right now doesn't give me a
Speaker 1: lot of hope because he I don't remember him really
Speaker 1: doing much of anything when Amari Cooper wasn't there to play.
Speaker 1: So it makes me wonder, Okay, what's what's he actually
Speaker 1: gonna do? And like I said, he has the talent
Speaker 1: and I know he could. It's there, we just need
Speaker 1: to see it. I mean he played it. To be fair,
Speaker 1: he played a half against the Chiefs and got a
Speaker 1: concussion and they didn't play the next game in a
Speaker 1: short week. You know. While you were saying that, I
Speaker 1: was like, man, that that game against the Raiders, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean they were in it over time. I mean
Speaker 1: the play playing that with both their starters, you know,
Speaker 1: but like without both starting receivers. But when that happens,
Speaker 1: like no one ever goes back and says, they just
Speaker 1: they just lost to the Raiders, who aren't very good,
Speaker 1: you know, or barely made the playoffs or whatever. But
Speaker 1: it's just like that was a challenge, you know that.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously to play that game in a short
Speaker 1: week without your true receivers. Yeah, you know. And also
Speaker 1: I kind of think part of the problem with this offense,
Speaker 1: I think they had too many options. I think Dak
Speaker 1: had too many options. And they went into it saying, well,
Speaker 1: we're just gonna find the open guy, just get it
Speaker 1: to him, versus a lot of teams where they're like,
Speaker 1: we got our guy, and he's good enough that even
Speaker 1: if he's covered, even if he sometimes it is double covered,
Speaker 1: he can make a play and we're gonna feed him
Speaker 1: the rock. And I wonder if maybe that's the issue,
Speaker 1: that that maybe, but and I get that, I know
Speaker 1: they can be double aged sort because back when they
Speaker 1: were doing that with Days, we were like, stop trying
Speaker 1: to feed him the ball, just get the guy. It
Speaker 1: goes both ways. This is my beef because I mean,
Speaker 1: I I don't necessary I'm not having played in the NFL.
Speaker 1: This is something that Isaiah Standback was on this show
Speaker 1: and he said, he said, when that happens though, is
Speaker 1: it your quarterback though? Is it your quarterback that says
Speaker 1: you just said, regardless if you're covered, we feel like
Speaker 1: we got a guy can make a play, But it
Speaker 1: is the quarterback comfortable enough to make that throw? When
Speaker 1: he's covered to go, I can still get it to
Speaker 1: my guy, as opposed to no, no, no, I'll just
Speaker 1: find Schultz boom seven yards. Well it's still it's still
Speaker 1: now it's third and five. But you know, I got
Speaker 1: that to me is about building confidence because he has
Speaker 1: to build that confidence with that receiver. That means that
Speaker 1: he has to do that a lot during training camp
Speaker 1: and during practices they're having at the house and all.
Speaker 1: That's a reason though, there's a reason why Dak doesn't
Speaker 1: throw a lot of interceptions. I mean, seriously, is careful
Speaker 1: because he's careful with the ball, which is not a
Speaker 1: bad thing. That's a good thing. But you know, I
Speaker 1: say it all the time. When he retired, I don't
Speaker 1: think is anymore. But when he retired, Brett Farve led
Speaker 1: the NFL and touchdowns and interceptions. Romo threw some picks too.
Speaker 1: You gotta throw it takes some chance. But but do
Speaker 1: you think do you think Lessening doesn't throw picks and
Speaker 1: takes chances? So I don't know, but do you think
Speaker 1: Lessening his options maybe having less uh, Like if he's
Speaker 1: got to choose between throwing to a Noah Brown or
Speaker 1: throwing to a CD, that might be covered. Do you
Speaker 1: think in that kind of scenario, he's like, I got
Speaker 1: a better chance of making this happen if I get
Speaker 1: it to CD. Do you think that pushes him to
Speaker 1: maybe try to make some of those throws it otherwise
Speaker 1: he might pass on. I hate it a lot. No.
Speaker 1: I know Aaron Rodgers is a one of one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but every other good quarterback has a multitude of weapons.
Speaker 1: I think it's on Dak to just trust that he
Speaker 1: can get guys the ball, Like look at look at
Speaker 1: all these great teams. I mean, the Rams have more
Speaker 1: than Cooper Cup. And when they lost Robert Woods, they
Speaker 1: went and got Odell. They still feed the hell lot
Speaker 1: of Cooper Cup. That's the quarterback. The quarterback is willing
Speaker 1: to do that. And I'm a big Dak fan. It's
Speaker 1: on Dak to have more confidence because I'm by the way,
Speaker 1: I'm pointing to that hit on the head where Dak
Speaker 1: is like, if you're not open as hell, I'm not
Speaker 1: throwing you the ball. And that's great to a point,
Speaker 1: you've also got to have the confidence to say this
Speaker 1: is my guy, he's gonna go get Teams do that,
Speaker 1: they're like, go ahead, chilts us all day long, because well,
Speaker 1: we'll be all right in the end, which is why. Honestly,
Speaker 1: when I look at them potentially drafting a receiver, the
Speaker 1: name I keep going back to is Chris Olave because
Speaker 1: he's a wonderful route runner. Run well he's got Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't I really, I don't care about his speed.
Speaker 1: He I think he's the best route runner. If y'all
Speaker 1: want speed, why aren't we talking about Jamison Williams. No,
Speaker 1: I get it, but I'm saying A love gives you
Speaker 1: both of them. He's a guy that can run, and
Speaker 1: he can run great routes, So I'll take that speed
Speaker 1: by training camp. Yeah, I already got that guy. A
Speaker 1: Lave can create separation with his route running, which is
Speaker 1: what DAK want. He's he going to be there at
Speaker 1: twenty four? Maybe what I heard of it, But again,
Speaker 1: I think terrible, terrible, terrible ideas they do to say,
Speaker 1: sue they've only drafted miss, aren't this guy for it? No?
Speaker 1: I think it's a terrible idea to say will be
Speaker 1: better with less options, no chances, but not even same.
Speaker 1: DAC needs help. It's gonna be the old line. I
Speaker 1: tell you the guard or center that you can take
Speaker 1: it twenty four that starts immediately, a plug and play
Speaker 1: guy that helps DAC more than the receiver that they get.
Speaker 1: A twenty four. I promise you that one that means
Speaker 1: week one you might be out there with Noah Brown.
Speaker 1: You're okay with that. Even if you got a good
Speaker 1: offensive line, you're okay with that. No, I'm not okay
Speaker 1: with that. Well, what are we doing? Like, there's there'll
Speaker 1: be other guys too, There'll be there'll be other guys.
Speaker 1: I mean, no, listen, I think we have hit the
Speaker 1: point where I think, I mean, watch them sign someone today.
Speaker 1: But I don't think you're gonna see a lot of
Speaker 1: moves anymore. We're about three weeks away at this point.
Speaker 1: Why go sign a veteran receiver? I don't know who's
Speaker 1: out there, Jarvis Landry here? Yeah to me, why go
Speaker 1: do that when you could draft the guy at twenty
Speaker 1: four and then you're like, let's just cut you know? So,
Speaker 1: I think you're just kind of hitting the brakes. We'll
Speaker 1: see what happens after the draft, and then they'll be
Speaker 1: they'll be like another wave. I think you're right, guys,
Speaker 1: I think you're right. The thing like, I'm fine if
Speaker 1: they don't do anything else at receiver. That's what James
Speaker 1: Washington is for. You have to draft another one. But
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, we have we're okay, and we can
Speaker 1: draft a guy. The thing with guard is like, they're
Speaker 1: not okay. They're not okay, and maybe they'll sign a
Speaker 1: guy after the draft. But this is just my opinion.
Speaker 1: I objectively think I think there's a very good chance
Speaker 1: that a better If there's a receiver and a guard
Speaker 1: both available at twenty four, I think the receiver will
Speaker 1: be the better player. And I hate the idea that
Speaker 1: they'll draft the guard just because they need it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we're talking about it at the first end of
Speaker 1: ours segment, right, Yeah, yeah, we'll see. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean it's entirely possible Burkes and do
Speaker 1: Lava could be there, or at the very least one
Speaker 1: of them. And going away from one of those guys
Speaker 1: because you didn't do anything about guard makes me want
Speaker 1: to puke. Yeah, but true. But also, remember what we
Speaker 1: talked about before is that this is a three to
Speaker 1: four year thing and you're gonna need a guard. I mean,
Speaker 1: Zach Zach Martin is of course, no, I mean I
Speaker 1: mean it's time to start putting those resources back in
Speaker 1: that offensive line again. Well, but not only that, Nick,
Speaker 1: you mentioned this earlier in the show. You kind are
Speaker 1: also looking at like where can you get other players?
Speaker 1: And it sounds like, Dave, you know more about this
Speaker 1: than I do, But it sounds like this is a
Speaker 1: very deep wide receiver draft. You could get good wide
Speaker 1: receivers maybe in later round, second, third, maybe even fourth round.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're not as good obviously, but certainly there are
Speaker 1: options there where you're like you said, Nick, if you
Speaker 1: don't take that center early, you might not get one.
Speaker 1: Maybe the same for guard. Who knows. I think I
Speaker 1: think you can get in the second or third round.
Speaker 1: I think one of their needs is going to be
Speaker 1: a smaller receiver, very quick and fast. Maybe a guy
Speaker 1: that returns punts as well. I don't even know the name.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've got some names like that, but I'm
Speaker 1: looking at a you know, five ten, five eleven, you know,
Speaker 1: slot guy, super quick and fast, he can do some
Speaker 1: things with him, returns punts. That would be because I
Speaker 1: think that guy in the third round is also a
Speaker 1: guy that helps you immediately, because there's not really a
Speaker 1: guy like that James Washington is not very tall, but
Speaker 1: he's not really a slot guy. I'm looking for it.
Speaker 1: Maybe a slot type of quick, you know, gadget type
Speaker 1: player that can do some things for me. Larry, let
Speaker 1: me look at this draft magazine there we have. We're
Speaker 1: gonna take our final break. When we come back, we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk a little bit more and we're gonna move
Speaker 1: to the second round. And look what the Cowboys have
Speaker 1: done in the second round over the last five years.
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Speaker 1: To secure your spot today, let's go Welcome back to
Speaker 1: the final segments. Brake left Nest WBC Mortgage Studios at
Speaker 1: the Start. I did not get a chance to let
Speaker 1: you guys tell me what you thought. A WWE guy's
Speaker 1: got a chance to go out there and experience WW
Speaker 1: what was that like? Wonderful? Yeah? I mean it's uh, Dave,
Speaker 1: Dave was he was really excited when a Stone Cold
Speaker 1: came out. Yeah, I was. I was trying to find
Speaker 1: the words to say. It's just it's one of those
Speaker 1: things that just takes you back to your childhood, you know,
Speaker 1: like if you hear a song from when you were
Speaker 1: a Stalgia. Yeah, very nostalgia. Which the fact that Stone
Speaker 1: Cold is I've been to three WrestleManias now and he's
Speaker 1: made an appearance at all of them. Like, wwe knows
Speaker 1: what it's fans want. They're like, hit me with the nostalgia. Okay,
Speaker 1: they never promised that. I never I made them. Look
Speaker 1: I made that. I ruined everybody's night. Because my buddy
Speaker 1: is like really into wrestling, like he follows it closely.
Speaker 1: He reads the message boards, he watches and xt in
Speaker 1: the Japanese leagues, and he was like, yeah, you know
Speaker 1: the rumor there's a chance the Rock could show up,
Speaker 1: And I said it in passing to a few people
Speaker 1: like Nick. But they brought their kids and like one
Speaker 1: of their kids to have a great night, and so
Speaker 1: like by halfway through the show, everybody was like, when's
Speaker 1: the Rock get And I was like, I didn't say
Speaker 1: it was gonna happen. You weren't the only one, though,
Speaker 1: you weren't the only one. We went We went in
Speaker 1: there thinking that there was a good chance for the rock,
Speaker 1: you know, but a little man wasn't excited that and
Speaker 1: he wasn't happy that Rock didn't show it rock. But
Speaker 1: you know, part of it too is that's all that's
Speaker 1: who he hes. He knows it doesn't know, but now
Speaker 1: he knows. Now he knows Roman Rains, he knows some
Speaker 1: some other people. And you know, he was kind of
Speaker 1: he was kind of into it. I thought it was
Speaker 1: it was cool that they put on a great show.
Speaker 1: And there's no doubt about it. They do a great job.
Speaker 1: That know what they're doing, and it was it was fun. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Speaking of nostalgia, Dave, you kind of you kind of
Speaker 1: took me aback when you tweeted about One Shining Moment
Speaker 1: because I was like, oh, that is all about nostalgia.
Speaker 1: How could you not like One Shining Moment? You know me, man,
Speaker 1: I'm broken inside. I just I just it's probably hurt me.
Speaker 1: Like I was like, I love One Shining I looked
Speaker 1: forward to One Shining Moment. I just think it's a
Speaker 1: corny song, yes, but that's beside the point. It's nostalgia.
Speaker 1: It's nostalgia. It's it's just all the years of watching
Speaker 1: it after I thought you were actually referring to like
Speaker 1: a shiny moment that happened. We're talking about the you know,
Speaker 1: obviously the video they put together at the end of
Speaker 1: the Come into it now and just hit and just
Speaker 1: let me see what they're talking about. Yeah, like, you
Speaker 1: gotta have been doing this for years, and it's just
Speaker 1: a part of the experience, part of the experience of
Speaker 1: March madness. Been watching the tournaments since I was like
Speaker 1: eight years old. My dad grew up a huge KU fan.
Speaker 1: I don't follow KU basketball anymore, but it was very
Speaker 1: cool to see them when they broke my heart in
Speaker 1: the Dome in two thousand and three when they lost
Speaker 1: the Syracuse so like I was like, oh, kind of
Speaker 1: exercising those demons. I still turned it off before the
Speaker 1: song came on, like I did too, But it doesn't
Speaker 1: do anything for me. Did YouTube the next time I did?
Speaker 1: I did too. See that's it's it's to me thing.
Speaker 1: It's like displays of earnest emotion abhorre me, Like I
Speaker 1: can't deal with this, so I have to go somewhere else.
Speaker 1: It's really hard to do anything like, especially in the
Speaker 1: media world, to keep it going for I mean, thirty
Speaker 1: thirty two years. I believe it was nineteen ninety or
Speaker 1: ninety one when they started doing it. They've changed the song.
Speaker 1: I mean it's a different version of that song version,
Speaker 1: but it's still the ball is tipped. Yeah, I've always
Speaker 1: just loved it. It's just it's kind of just pulls
Speaker 1: it all back together. Remind you. I remember that in
Speaker 1: the first round. I remember that in the second round.
Speaker 1: Like it's just I don't know, like as you get older,
Speaker 1: like Santa Claus Is coming to town is not for
Speaker 1: me either. It's a little too hokey. But you just
Speaker 1: talked about WWE and you were like, it's all about
Speaker 1: in the stat Yeah, Stone Cold comes out on an ATV,
Speaker 1: guzzles beer and kicks people's ass. Like that's fun, that's great,
Speaker 1: one shining moment. You just told us so much about yourself,
Speaker 1: stone Cold in the Rock, Like those are my childhood heroes.
Speaker 1: If you need any contexts about who I am. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's good. Okay, all right, let's move on. We're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about the second round here, and we'll probably haven't
Speaker 1: get through all of this, but we're gonna start here
Speaker 1: on the second round. Next week, we'll pick you back up. First,
Speaker 1: tell me in the second round, what is the expectation Dave,
Speaker 1: I know you said you kind of know how teams
Speaker 1: think about this. What what do teams think of second
Speaker 1: you have something the second round picks, and what the
Speaker 1: expectation should be for those players. I think, more so
Speaker 1: than what Dave said in about the first round, I
Speaker 1: think where the guys picked in the second round is
Speaker 1: a big difference. I mean high second round. You know
Speaker 1: you're talking about thirty eight, thirty nine, forty versus sixty.
Speaker 1: I mean I think I think that's a big difference
Speaker 1: on your expectation. I mean, first round you expect that
Speaker 1: guy to come in and play. Second round depending on
Speaker 1: the position it is different, I mean, and what you
Speaker 1: expect him to at least contribute. Yeah, first, So the
Speaker 1: two things I'm looking at here, which is the way
Speaker 1: you look at it depending on and next totally right
Speaker 1: like second round, high, second round, low, second round, even
Speaker 1: part of the third round. First year, starter, ability, verse starter,
Speaker 1: a bil, immediate backup or role player might need time
Speaker 1: to develop. The higher you go, the more likely it
Speaker 1: is that you view them as an immediate starter or
Speaker 1: an immediate player. And that's why the funny thing is,
Speaker 1: and I know you want to go round by round,
Speaker 1: but I think this is a just a perfect example
Speaker 1: of what we're talking about. And it's why teams guard
Speaker 1: their actual grades of players very very closely because they
Speaker 1: don't want to They don't want you to know just
Speaker 1: how little or much they thought of a guy, because
Speaker 1: that can really come back to bite you. But twenty
Speaker 1: nineteen and twenty eighteen, or perfect example, Connor Williams goes
Speaker 1: fiftieth overall mid second round. Then the next year they
Speaker 1: don't really need a guard, but they draft Connor McGovern
Speaker 1: I believe ninetieth, yes, ninetieth overall. And remember the narrative
Speaker 1: around McGovern when they drafted him was this was a
Speaker 1: blinking red light, like we had a high second round
Speaker 1: grade on this guy. We couldn't believe he hung around
Speaker 1: until where we were picking in the third round. So
Speaker 1: even though Connor McGovern was taker, sorry, Connor Williams was
Speaker 1: taking forty spots ahead of Connor McGovern, Connor McGovern's a
Speaker 1: more disappointing player to me because of what you had
Speaker 1: him great at, as what you thought he could be,
Speaker 1: whereas Connor Williams, and to be fair to him. I
Speaker 1: don't know what they're great on Connor was, but taking
Speaker 1: it taking at fiftieth. I've been arguing with people for
Speaker 1: months that Connor Williams is this disappointing player. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you drafted him fiftieth overall and he started four years here,
Speaker 1: didn't work out. You were fine to let him leave,
Speaker 1: but like you got a second contract in the NFL,
Speaker 1: that's you got used out of him. Like that is
Speaker 1: not a terrible pick as far as I'm concerned. Whereas
Speaker 1: for what we know about what they thought of Connor
Speaker 1: McGovern and I'm like, y'all thought you were getting more
Speaker 1: than this when you drafted him. I mean, that's just
Speaker 1: that's indisputable at this point. So I think it's just
Speaker 1: an interesting inside look into the way that these things
Speaker 1: play out, because again, you could draft a guy at
Speaker 1: ninety that you have a high second on, or draft
Speaker 1: a guy at fifty who you're like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: about right, you know where this is? This lines up
Speaker 1: with where we're picking, And I think that just colors
Speaker 1: the way that you can view these careers because I think,
Speaker 1: of course, you would rather have Treyvon Diggs, who was
Speaker 1: fifty first overall, like it would be great if a
Speaker 1: top fifty pick signed a second contract here, but I
Speaker 1: don't think it's the end of the world that it
Speaker 1: doesn't work out. So you look at the guys that
Speaker 1: they've selected over the last five years. In the second round,
Speaker 1: you got Kelvin JOSEPHO was selected at forty four, Treyvon
Speaker 1: Diggs at fifty one, Tristan Hill at fifty eight, Connor
Speaker 1: Williams at fifty, and Cheetah bay A Woozier at sixty.
Speaker 1: Let's start first with Kelvin Joseph. Do you think he's
Speaker 1: met expectations for what you needed to see from him
Speaker 1: in year one or do you think at this point
Speaker 1: he's vastly under under that I don't think we'd say over,
Speaker 1: but vastly under where you wanted him to be at
Speaker 1: the end of year one. I mean, I think when
Speaker 1: he was drafted, even though you kind of knew some
Speaker 1: of his history, the corner that you draft at forty four,
Speaker 1: you would have liked for him to be better than
Speaker 1: Anthony Brown. He wasn't for a couple of reasons. One,
Speaker 1: he wasn't good enough, he has hurt a little bit,
Speaker 1: and Anthony Brown had a better year than maybe people
Speaker 1: thought he was gonna have. You know, he's continued to
Speaker 1: improve too, so I think he's below the expectations. But
Speaker 1: you know, the cornerbacks that were ahead of them are
Speaker 1: better than him, and you got to give them credit
Speaker 1: for that. Yeah, I think the way you view Kelvin
Speaker 1: probably depends on how you viewed Jordan Lewis and Anthony Brown,
Speaker 1: because on one hand, it's like these guys are bums
Speaker 1: who were trying to get rid of and a top
Speaker 1: fifty picks should be able to come in and take
Speaker 1: their job. Then on the other hand, you say, these
Speaker 1: two guys are successful draft picks who signed second contracts
Speaker 1: with their team and have started a lot of games
Speaker 1: in the NFL. Maybe neither one of them is as
Speaker 1: bad as fans like to act like they are. And
Speaker 1: it's hard for a rookie, a rookie whose thumbnail was
Speaker 1: kind of raw only. I think Kelvin Joseph only started
Speaker 1: like eight college games, hasn't played a lot of football,
Speaker 1: probably not ready to come in and be the guy
Speaker 1: right away. But I do like what I see from
Speaker 1: him from when when he's out there, you can see
Speaker 1: the skills and I think you know, I've said it before,
Speaker 1: this these three months are crucial for him. These you know,
Speaker 1: March April May. What is he doing to take his
Speaker 1: game to the next level, because he's got the potential,
Speaker 1: he's just got to do it. Maybe it's a cop out,
Speaker 1: but like Kelvin Joseph, I just have a pen in
Speaker 1: him where I'm like, I'm not disappointed and I'm not optimistic,
Speaker 1: just like it was a red shirt ear for all
Speaker 1: intents and purposes, Let's see what you can do this year. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: that's a rap for us for today. We'll be back
Speaker 1: next week. We'll talk about the rest of this second
Speaker 1: round because there are lots of questions around Treylon Diggs
Speaker 1: and how he's can, how he's perceived versus the player
Speaker 1: that he is, and and certainly from Connor Williams Tristan Hill,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of questions in this second round. We
Speaker 1: talk about it all that next week till then. For
Speaker 1: Nick Even, Dave helm and Amber Garcia. I am Derek Eagleton.
Speaker 1: This has been The Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot
Speaker 1: Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys
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