WEBVTT - This Is Bisexual Culture 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:15.960 Might what about it? That's what that. So it's been 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:18.480 such a fun month of doing these super special, super 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:22.920 spooky Halloween Spectacular episodes. And I'm not even spooky like that, 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:25.360 but like I got spooky this month. I watched a 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:29.520 lot of scary movies. Yeah, and I've really enjoyed the 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:35.199 chance to really focus in on one piece of media 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:39.200 and each of these bonus episodes, and this week we're 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:43.920 doing one that even before, like a virgin, you know, 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:47.440 took another look back at this piece of media. This 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:49.960 is something that has already been given this you know, 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:55.520 broader cultural reassessment, um. And that is Jennifer's Body, you know, 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:59.160 the Diabolo Cody film starring Nick and Fox and Amanda Seyfrid. 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:02.320 And we're going to talk a lot about it's played 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:05.280 some pop culture when it came out, why it was 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:09.480 so you know, maligned and misunderstood, and I guess off 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:13.640 screen controversy that like maybe made the film less successful 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:15.760 than it could have been. And we also talked about 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:18.520 that lesbian kiss and of course, yeah, and how it's 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:23.760 been you know, reclaimed and reassessed through a contemporary lens, 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:26.399 because this is like a Virgin, the show where we 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.800 give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm most am you 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:34.360 and I'm fran Toronto Virgins. If you follow us on 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:38.760 Instagram at like a Virgin, you will know that we 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:44.840 did ask your opinion on what films and spooky themes 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:48.440 we should talk about this month. You also should know 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:54.520 that we just fully disregarded all of your suggestions. Yeah, sorry, 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:56.800 but you're not going to be disappointed with what we 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:00.000 chose instead. No, we were trying to account for one 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.280 past episode and the episode we decided to do. Well. 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:05.200 This is the last episode of series, but the last 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:09.120 episode we are recording, um and the one that we're 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:13.960 filling is for Jennifer's Body, which deserves to be discussed. 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:18.200 You know, it is a cult classic. It really has 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:22.320 been you know, reclaimed in recent years as you know, 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:28.040 part of Queer Girl canon. I think it also reverses 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.920 something in a quintessential like a version analysis, which is 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:34.440 that the you know a lot of times we watch 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:36.800 our read or look at things and it's like this 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:39.200 thing was very relevant then and it's like a little 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:41.560 less relevant now, and now we're consuming something that was 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.560 like at the time critically panned or had a lot 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.519 of controversy or like negative criticism around it, and now 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.320 um people are thinking that it was maybe more ahead 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:54.600 of its time, very ahead of its time for the Virgins. 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:57.800 Jennifer's Body is a two nine film written by Diablo 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:02.800 Cody about need Liz Nikki and her best friend Jennifer 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:08.080 check Um. They are besties living in you know, like 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:13.960 this ass backwards town and a emo band fronted by 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:17.280 Adam Brody of the O C Fame visits their town 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:21.200 and he and his bandmates, because they want to become famous, 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:26.560 sacrifice Jennifer as part of a satanic ritual because they 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:29.560 think she's a virgin. But she's not a virgin. So 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:31.960 the ritual goes wrong and she becomes a demon. She 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:36.760 becomes a succubus, and she starts feeding off of not people. 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:40.520 She specifies she's not killing people, she's killing boys, so 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.320 she starts seducing and then eating these boys who make 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:49.640 her powerful. Needy knows what's going on, UM, and you know, 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.680 UH is not going to let Jennifer you know, kill 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:55.880 these boys, even though we'll get to this later. I 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:59.920 think she should have Um and the the movie ends 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:05.240 spoiler alert with Needy killing Jennifer and winding up in prison, 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:07.440 but then she escapes at the end of the film 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:11.360 and goes to exact revenge on the band. Um. The 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:16.600 movie stars Amanda Cyfred is Needy, Megan Fox as Jennifer. 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:21.159 It is iconic in many ways. Um, something that should 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:23.600 be said is like that that Needy is kind of 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.359 like this nerd, which like lalad Amanda Cyford like playing 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:29.520 a nerd, like she's she's so beautiful, She's so beautiful, 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:31.919 like there's no world she would ever fall into that 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:34.760 like category. But I don't know that she's a nerd 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:38.160 as much as she's a horse girl. She's a horse girl. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:43.120 she's there is always that really beautiful but just weird 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:46.560 girl in school who has hair as long as Amanda 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:51.080 Cyford's hair is. It's it's just silly, but it but 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:54.960 it um the movie in general is actually playing into 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.720 tropes that we might find in like an after school special. 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:01.960 Like it has that kind kind of pulpy like after 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:05.600 school special quality to it that is very aware of itself. 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:11.480 And so Jennifer is like this liberated hot like slut 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:16.440 who Needy almost um well actually no, definitely looks up 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:18.440 to like at the beginning, at least at the beginning 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:22.080 of the movie, like she sees her as this pinnacle 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:25.640 of like sexual liberation that she doesn't quite have access 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:29.240 to yet. And I do think that the way Diablo 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:33.880 Cody wrote this movie, it like champions the like kind 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.960 of high school drama component of it as much as 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:42.640 it champions the horror um so it blends those together. 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:45.200 I mean, the opening line of the film is Hell 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.960 is a teenage girl, which you know, I think it's 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:53.640 interesting for me to look back on this is you know, 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:57.039 I was never a teenage girl. So I don't know 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:00.280 how true that statement is. I can imagine it is 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:03.880 very true, and I think I've consumed enough media to 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:09.120 know that that it is. And you know, that statement 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:13.760 is proven by the way that this film was received. 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.080 So I do want to talk a little bit about 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:19.960 the context of when this movie is released, because I 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:24.680 think it says a lot about the way it was received. 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.960 So this movie came out in two thousand nine. It's 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.000 written by Diablo Cody, who was fresh off of the 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:35.800 incredible surprising success of Juno Um, winning the Oscar for 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:42.200 the screenplay and nominated for Best Picture. Probably probably were 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:45.279 you a Juno head? I loved the movie, Yeah, I 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:50.280 you know kim Yall Dawson and soundtrack. I definitely. Um. 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.320 I don't know if I was like a Juno stand 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:55.240 but I did watch the movie over and over again 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:58.040 and love the soundtrack. And I wanted to be Diablo 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.800 Coody like I wanted to write something quirky and indie 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:06.800 like her. Yeah. The movie was directed by Karen kusama 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:10.040 Um who directed Girl Fight a on Flux a couple 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:12.679 of years ago. She directed that movie Destroyer with Nicole 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:16.960 Kidman with the wig um oh my gosh, and yeah, 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:20.560 and Megan Fox was fresh off of the Transformer sequel. 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:23.880 Amanda Seyfrid was fresh off of Mamma Mia. So you 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:25.880 look at this film and it's all of these women 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:29.880 who are really at that peak in many ways of 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:32.720 their fame, and so it had all of the ingredients 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:37.760 to be this really successful film, and it was a 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:43.200 huge flop um both commercially and critically. It only made 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.160 it made like barely twice it's budget. It currently has 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.520 a fort on Rotten Tomatoes, which I think that's crazy 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.080 that it hasn't gotten bumped up by you know, the 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.720 all of the people who still love it and the 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.000 way it's been you know, sort of reassessed today. But 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.960 I think it's very telling of where we were in 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.000 pop culture in two thousand nine. So you have to 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.640 think about and we we've talked a little bit about 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.840 this before in our Twilight episode. Two thousand nine was 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:17.840 like peak Twilight Mania. So we're at this time and yeah, 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:23.600 we're at this time in culture where no one in 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:29.640 pop culture is more hated than the teenage girl. You know, um, 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:32.280 so hell is a teenage girl. It was a time 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:38.000 when there was all of this real anger and uh, misogyny, 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:44.200 misogyny at work because teenage girls had proven their capitalistic 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:49.720 power to control media, um and to prop up the 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:52.560 things that they were interested in, and so because of that, 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.280 they became the butt of every joke. You know. It 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:59.880 was just a time when if a teenage girl liked something, 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.640 then that was just all the more reason for people 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:06.480 to hate it and to hate teenage girls themselves. So 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:11.440 it's no surprise that this film, which is about teenage girls, 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:15.480 was I'm sure marketed to them, uh, was you know, 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:19.440 critically panned and was a huge flop. Well what's actually, um, 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.120 I was reading a little bit and prep for this episode. 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:24.880 I was reading about like the runway to the movie 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.400 and and how that kind of teenage girl thing came 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:31.839 into fold and I you know, they greenlit this movie 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:36.079 and you know paid for it, um right after Juno, 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:40.160 just as you said, and um, and when it was announced, 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:42.920 like nothing's even in production. When it was announced, people 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:46.560 were protesting it because by then people already had a 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.720 problem with I guess like Diablo Cody, you know, succeeding 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.760 as a woman. But also just like the conceit of 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:55.480 it was like for some reason offensive to like certain 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:59.240 classes of people, which is insane. Um. But that is 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:02.240 just your as you're saying, the kind of white hot 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:05.800 heat that was on Diablo Cody at the time. But 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:08.959 I think that in you know, recent interviews and when 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:12.080 this movie is being looked at retrospectively, which it is, 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:15.240 you know a lot, especially last I want to say, 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:17.320 last year, like Megan Fox had a little bit of 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:21.720 a comeback. Megan Fox had her you know resurgence into 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:26.840 pop culture. Um. There were a lot of the younger 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:31.959 generation of celebrities we have now, um directly referencing Jennifer's body, 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:35.120 like Olivia Rodrigo and her Good for You music video 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:40.520 like is very obviously referencing Jennifer's body. So last year 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:45.360 was was a big moment for you know, reclaiming this film, 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:49.520 especially among queer women. Um and I think both young 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:51.920 queer women and also the queer women who probably loved 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.520 this film when it first came out, you know the 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:58.160 way that I did, exactly, But um, what what's interesting 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:00.760 about your Like the way you were thinking about, like 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:03.600 how this movie is for teenage girls is exactly correct, 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:07.760 but that's not how the movie was marketed. So Diablo 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:12.400 Cody and Karen Kusama went up against like the kind 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:15.280 of powers that be about how the film were to 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:17.319 be marketed, and they just like would not hear them. 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.720 They were like, no, this movie is for teen boys 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:24.160 because their horny period, Like we're not doing anything outside 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:27.600 of that, and the movie I feel maybe didn't find 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:32.080 it's real audience, um, because there was this kind of 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:35.920 patent refusal to like see teenage girls as a viable 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:39.560 audience for horror. Um. And so there was actually this 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.559 really funny moment in one of the interviews with Diablo 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.199 Cody I was reading wherein they were being presented a 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.959 very like misogynist ad um fixating on Jennifer's hotness, which 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.760 was kind of like the definitely the trailer, which she 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.680 also hated, like definitely the marketing plan like Megan Fox 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:57.640 being hot is like obviously was a part of the 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:01.679 pr plan um. And Cody like you know, replied to 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.440 the email and was like, hey, can you like clarify 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:07.520 like why you think this is like good for the 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:09.560 movie or like what you think this this will do 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:12.520 for the movie? And the email they got in response, 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:17.920 Cody said, was Jennifer sexy. She steal your boyfriend, like fully, 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:21.560 not a full sentence, like not even grammatically correct, like 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:23.720 she said, it was as if a caveman had written it, 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:26.720 and that was like what she was up against, trying 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:30.400 to help the film find its audience, which it maybe 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:34.120 didn't until later years. Yeah, and you know, watching it 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:36.679 again because I watched it last night preparing for this, 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:43.000 it's directly at odds with the actual product because I 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.120 every time I revisit this movie, I'm like, am I 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:47.880 am I like misremembering it? Am I remembering it as 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:52.040 being more for women than it actually was? And I'm 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:55.440 not because it really is. This movie is one of 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.320 the best examples of the female gays in film I've 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:03.319 ever seen, like down to the literal gaze of the camera. 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.840 You know, I think the most iconic image of this 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.760 movie is Megan Fox swimming in the lake after she's 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.440 eating her first victim. You know, that's like the reference 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:17.400 that Olivia Rodrigo pulled. And in a movie that was 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.199 directed by a man, when Jennifer gets out of the water, 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:22.640 you know, the camera would have lingered on like her 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:26.480 back and her as the parts that they think men 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:28.880 want to see. But then the way that it's shot 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:30.839 in this movie is she gets out of the water 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:35.320 and it's her wringing her hair out and very simple. 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:39.320 It's it's just like it's so obviously the gaze of 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:43.880 a woman. And even in the scene where Needy and 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:50.040 Jennifer kiss later in the film, it's not exploitative in 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:52.000 a way that I think a movie made by a 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:55.480 male director would be. The shot is so close on 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:59.120 their lips. It's such a hot but it's for like 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:03.520 all genders, like it's everybody, but it also is very 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.840 fem It's the gaze is on their lips, it's on 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:11.200 the tenderness and the intimacy and it's sticky and sweet 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:15.360 and intense, but not like pornographic at any point. Like 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:17.880 I was kind of I want to get your take 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:20.840 on that scene in general, like how you felt about it. 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:24.520 I when I was reading about this, people took huge 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:26.680 issue with the fact that there was a makeout scene, 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.160 Like queer people were like, this is exploitative and like 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.040 or like this is like so gratuitous or whatever, or 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.440 maybe like it was more like feminist critiques. We're like, 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.400 this is so for the male gaze. Like I didn't 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:40.840 feel that was true at all. No, I think that's misogyny. 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:44.480 I think it's misogyny to think that a movie written by, 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:49.920 directed by, and starring women could not include a very 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:55.560 like honest depiction of teen queer sexuality. Like I think 0:14:55.720 --> 0:15:00.360 it's so believable that these girls are obsessed with each 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:05.400 other in a way that includes being sexually interested in 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.640 each other, and of course that would come out as 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:11.000 a kiss, like it's hammered in so often in this 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:15.960 movie that Needy is the one exception to Jennifer's you 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:20.120 know evil. When she first becomes a demon, she goes 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.840 immediately to Needy. She doesn't hurt her because she loves her, 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:27.600 and so of course there is an undercurrent of that 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:31.200 being sexual attraction. And yeah, I absolutely believe that they 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:33.600 would make out. I actually would believe that they've made 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.280 out before. Yeah. I actually would be mad if they 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:38.360 hadn't made out. I know, That's all she said. Well, 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:40.480 she even says, like, um, let's play we can play 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:44.360 a boyfriend girlfriend like we used to. Yes, exactly, Like 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.320 the infatuation is there, and also like there through the 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:49.840 whole movie, it's not unearned at all. And also it 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:54.920 makes sense plot wise because you know, Jennifer seduces her victims, 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:57.920 like and so this is when they were kissing, you 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.280 have these little alarm bells going off. You're like, oh no, no, 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:03.960 this means that she's gonna die. Like it also has 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:07.440 a kind of functioning foreshadow. Um as much as it, 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.600 you know, was just earned in the emotional intimacy of 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:13.680 the characters. And it's so good and it's it's this 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:17.320 is bisexual culture, you know, and she's by like the 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.600 character I think that Jennifer is by she kind of 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.840 she literally says when when they're in the pool, the 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:26.160 pool scene, she says, I thought you only killed boys 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.840 I swing both ways. It's supposed to be explicitly bisexual, 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.280 and I think at the time in two thousand nine, 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.160 people were like, well, that's just a joke. It wasn't 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.720 a joke. Oh, it's like why would you write it. 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:56.920 At the time of like Juno, like they were making 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:00.240 jokes about Diablo Cody on like Family Guy, you know 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:06.760 what I mean, Like she became Diablo Cody's whole sensibility. 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:11.960 I think with Juno became this easy joke, you know, 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:16.040 And that very much was grafted onto this film and 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:18.920 the way it was received, which is crazy because actually, 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:23.400 like um, even though like critically the noise around it 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:27.280 was loudly negative, like Roger Ebert loved like that, they 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:29.600 loved this film like that. It got positive reviews in 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:31.840 the time. I think the Times like got a ton 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:36.160 of really positive criticism, but because the conversation around Diablo 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:41.240 Cody was so loud um that it just like consumed 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:43.520 the kind of lens through which the movie was being 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:48.439 looked at. And that was then um compounded with the 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.359 Michael Bay drama, which is during the press junket of 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:53.919 this movie, like around the movie was being around the 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.639 time the movie is being marketed. Megan Fox said really 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:00.359 negative things about Michael Bay, the director of trans Farmers, 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.040 the movie she had just come off of, and she 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:05.480 also called him like Hitler, which is like, you know, 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:10.240 not very like um intentional words, but like she had 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:13.320 a horrible experience working with him, and for anybody like 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:15.840 for her to do this in like a pre two 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:18.960 era like is crazy, you know what I mean, Like 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:23.199 that is unheard of. It. It gives me just so 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:26.879 much more love and respect um for Megan Fox just 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:30.639 as an actor in general, Like she was blacklisted by 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:34.200 Michael Bay and like was like essentially like talk made 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:38.680 toxic in film and TV after this, And I think 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:42.600 their favorability of both Megan and Diablo went significantly down 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:46.000 because of Jennifer's body totally. And I think with the 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.639 Diablo cody of it all, I'm sure there was also 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:54.840 this expectation because you look at these two films, right, 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.720 you look at Juno, which almost has this like righteousness 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:03.399 to it of this character who like does this you know, 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:06.439 good thing, and like you know, she gets pregnant, she 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.880 gives her baby up for adoption. Like there's this I'm 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:13.919 not I'm not gonna say like st Lena's to Juno. 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:18.200 But it's a very twee film. It's very sweet, it's 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:21.240 it's very much a feel good movie. You immediately fall 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:25.560 in love with everyone involved and become protective Juno. And 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.840 so then for the follow up to that to be this, 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:31.840 So you have all these people who are already poised 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.359 to not like Diablo Cody, and then she writes this 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:40.240 movie about a bloodsucking female demon, you know, it's giving unfortunately, 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:45.679 gave people weapons to use against her. I wonder, like, 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:47.800 not that I want this to happen, but I wonder, 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.399 like what would have happened to either Megan or Diablo 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:55.639 if this if Jennifer's body was instead her like fifth 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:57.720 or sixth film, you know what I mean, Like if 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:01.159 it had come later in her career, when there was 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:03.639 there was like more breathing room around, you know, her 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:07.280 success or something, or it just felt like consequently and 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:11.040 unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time, Because 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:15.080 I mean, let's be honest, if this movie came out today, 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:18.080 this was a first time filmmaker and it was an movie, 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:21.960 it would like it would be an Oscar nomination, you 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:25.639 know it actually like there should know I was gonna 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:27.399 say there should be a reboot, but like, there should 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:29.360 just be more movies like it. There should be so 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:31.119 many more movies. I mean, I mean there are and 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:33.359 there there's movies and TV shows like it. And I 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:35.679 think so much of the media that we enjoy and 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:39.080 consume probably does owe a debt to Jennifer's body in 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:42.160 a way. And I think it's really ahead of its time. 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:45.920 I mean, there's it's not perfect. There's some no, there's 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.640 some very racist jokes in it. Um and you know, 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:52.560 there's a Chris Pratt jump scare and oh my god, 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:54.920 and then Chris Pratt says the word fags or whatever 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:57.640 he says like saga like oh my god, it's two 0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:01.199 on the nose right now. Um It. It's just a 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.840 good movie. It's a good scary movie. Megan Fox is 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:09.040 genuinely terrifying, and she's also acting like she plays it 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:12.320 completely serious. Like a lot of the rest of the movie, 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:15.480 I would say, it's like pretty camp, and she decided 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:17.920 to play it straight. And I have so much respect 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:20.520 for her because of that, you know, And it also 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:24.080 just made me appreciative of what is demanded of an 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:27.960 actor in an action movie. I know, that Jennifer's body 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:29.919 is less of an action movie than Transformers. But I 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:33.320 was like, that really is like a whole different breadth 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:35.880 of skill sets that you have to take on and 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:38.800 and habit in your body in order to do this acting. Yeah, 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:41.919 and she and a man to deliver Diablo Cody's lines 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:46.440 so well that scene in the Poolhouse where Amanda Cyford 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:49.480 says something like when she's floating, she's like, oh, you 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:51.720 show off, And she's like, do you have to like, 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:54.639 you know, like have an opinion on everything I do? 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:59.919 It's it's just so funny. She's literally floating through the air, demonic, 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:01.840 he possessed, and she's like, why do you why do 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:04.439 you always have to like, you know, denigrate what I 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:07.239 It's just like it's like a caddy girl fight, but 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:11.040 she's floating in the air. It's genius. It's like really smart. 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:14.400 It's cinematic invention, like we've never seen that before. But yeah, 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:17.800 the movie, the ending, I didn't love the ending ending. Yeah, 0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:21.440 So this is my problem is that I do think 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:26.000 if the movie were made today, it would end with 0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:31.320 Needy also becoming a demon and her and Jennifer being 0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:33.800 together being a couple and just like going off and 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:36.239 killing people, and that's how it should have ended. There 0:22:36.280 --> 0:22:38.960 could have been like a love story in there somewhere. 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:42.680 I think it could have been, Like I mean, especially 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:46.480 now that like culture is like not completely primed, but 0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:49.240 more prime than in two thousand nine, for like a 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:54.280 kind of lesbian revenge fantasy like that would absolutely eat 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:57.840 because Needy is a little sanctimonious. She's like, you're doing 0:22:57.840 --> 0:22:59.760 bad things and you kill my boyfriend, so I'm gonna 0:22:59.840 --> 0:23:03.680 kill you, and I mean fair, but also like this 0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:06.520 is your best friend. Shouldn't you kind of be on 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:09.000 her side a little bit? Yeah, figure out how you 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:13.600 can exercise the semen or you know, all these different things. Um. 0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:15.800 Can we also talk about the soundtrack of this movie. 0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:19.359 Oh my god, this is I think this is the 0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:23.240 first time I heard Florence the Machine was kiss with 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:26.720 a Fist because the trailer, it's in the it's in 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:28.399 the movie. I know it's in the movie, but I 0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:31.480 was wondering if it was also I don't know it 0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:33.800 might have been in the trailer because two nine is 0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:37.479 the year that Lungs came out. It was with the 0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:41.719 Fist was the first single, So I do believe that 0:23:41.760 --> 0:23:45.679 this was how I discovered Florence the Machine. And also, 0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:50.280 let's say it the song that Low Shoulder that becomes 0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:53.520 famous in the movie because of their satanic ritual and 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:57.200 becomes like the soundtrack of of Devil's Kettle the town 0:23:57.280 --> 0:24:00.199 and like everything bad that happens there, it does up 0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:03.359 its laps. And also there's a there's a song by 0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:05.720 the Black Kids that drops. It's called I'm Not going 0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:08.120 to Teach your Boyfriend how to Dance with You, and 0:24:08.240 --> 0:24:10.520 it sent me down such a huge spiral. I like 0:24:10.640 --> 0:24:13.960