WEBVTT - Featuring Carri Twigg 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:04.520 Hey guys, and welcome back to this week's episode of 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:07.080 the lest Bireau Podcast. As always, I am your host, 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:09.760 Sammy Jay, and I hope your week is going well. 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:12.360 I am so glad that you are here because this 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:15.240 is probably one of my favorite episodes we've ever put 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:17.720 out because I got to chat with you one and 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:22.120 only former special assistant to President Obama and also served 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:25.759 as director of public Engagement for then Vice President Biden 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:29.280 carry Twig. She is now also the founder of one 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:32.400 of the most incredible production and company's Culture House, and 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:36.440 we talk about everything from politics to entertainment and everything 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:38.600 in between. I'm gonna let you, guys get right into 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:40.360 this episode, but I hope you love it as much 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:44.760 as I do. Harry, thank you so much for taking 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:47.000 the time to come on my podcast. I look up 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:49.800 to so much, and not just everything you've accomplished and created, 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:52.720 but also the types of stories you're telling and the impact. 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.720 It's just so amazing. Thank you. Thank you for having me. 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:57.800 I'm really excited. There's so many things I want to 0:00:57.800 --> 0:00:59.480 get into. I want to start with how you got 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.400 into polity. Because I grew up in New York, my 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:04.440 mom always listened to the news. So it was just 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:06.760 kind of in my brain. Was it just something that 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:09.640 you came about or was ingrained in your family? It 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:12.000 wasn't ingrained in my family. I have a very My 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:16.080 dad is steadfastly refused to become a citizen. Um he 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.199 was born and raised in Barbados. And this whole notion 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:20.880 that when you become a citizen in the US, you 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:24.400 have to say that you forsake any other allegiance to 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.759 any other countries, Like I can't do that, um, so's 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.640 he's not an American citizen. He does follow politics, he's 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:32.120 aware of it. But I didn't grow up in a 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:34.479 political family. And then my mother's side of the family 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:36.759 is like kind of very waspy, and we don't talk 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:40.479 about money or you know, politics. And so you landed 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:43.240 yourself in a very interesting place. I did. But it's 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:46.160 interesting because my parents are political, even if they're not 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:49.200 like politically active. And so my mom is a social worker. 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:51.960 My dad is a black immigrant. My mom was a 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:54.840 social worker too. I don't think I knew that it's 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:59.120 so helpful when you have anxiety attacks, really helpful. I mean, 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:02.720 my mom such a um. But what actually happened was 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:05.240 when I was about eleven or twelve. I asked my 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:07.760 mom what government is, and she told me it's old 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.400 white men sitting in a room deciding how free you are, 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.280 which is still the most saying an accurate definition I've 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:16.680 ever heard. And I remember we were just driving down 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:19.280 the street in the car, just so casually. Yeah, and 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:21.400 she was like yeah, she just rattled this off, and like, 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.839 what are you saying. It's like life path changed now 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.200 in that moment, changed the trajectory of my life, because 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:29.840 at that point I would probably would have been in 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.680 like fifth, sixth grade, and everything you had been taught 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:35.880 up to that point was like, this is the freest 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.920 country in the world. It is the most equal country. 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:42.240 I have a dream, right, like all these things. And 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:46.119 that just really brought home that the kind of contradiction 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:49.239 that I think so many people understand about America as 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:51.840 they age or as they go into the adult world, 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:56.280 they're like, oh, we're kind of full of it. Um. 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:59.000 But I kind of got introduced to that notion really early, 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:01.280 and and I decided I was going to be one 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:04.880 of those people in that room because no one, no 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.200 one's making decisions without me, um. And and that's what 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.560 I did. I feel like politics and being politics, it's 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.680 a whole other universe. And then you know, you go 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:17.840 into the White House, your special assistant for Obama, and 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:19.280 you want to just want to make sure I get 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:22.639 this right director of Public Engagement for under Biden. That's 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:25.000 a lot of work and I'm so curious, what is 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:27.480 what was like a day in your life? Then you know, 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:29.400 it was really fascinating because the White House is this 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:35.200 incredibly particular place, um and kind of peculiar place in 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.720 that it's this tiny campus, Like the White House is 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:44.120 actually very small, and you walk up and you see 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.560 the you know, you get off the bus or whatever. 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:50.360 I sometimes I drove. Sometimes I to the bus and 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:52.880 you see the iconic building and you walk up. There's 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:58.120 people protesting outside, or there's there's always action news, you know, 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:02.400 news cameras and correspond there's something happening around the White House. 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:05.680 And then you walk in and you have this hallowed experience. 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.240 You go through the gates and then you're still just 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:10.320 at your job and you're just sort of like if 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:12.839 Debbie says, well I'm going to me today, like I'm 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.120 just I'm going to flip my desk, you know, but 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:18.239 you you still have the like petty annoyances and daily 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:22.280 job and the White House so many of the you know, 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:25.640 two thousand people that work there are political appointees that 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:27.560 come in and serve at the pleasure of the President. 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:31.080 And we are all people who want to change society, 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:33.400 but also who were type A who love to be 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.360 the smartest person in the room, who are very mission driven, 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.080 who like think they're the best in the brightest. How 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.560 does that work when so many people are also brilliant 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:43.479 in one room, Like how do you get things done? 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:47.640 It's a great question. It's a it's a question worth asking, 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.000 you know, and I think it's you know, it can 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:52.680 be both the greatest thing in the world and it 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:57.040 can also be, you know, like many like many things 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:00.840 are best qualities are often sometimes our worst qualities. So 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:02.839 um so that existed, but you know, it was an 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:08.000 extraordinary privilege, and I think for me every time other 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:11.080 I got to bring people into the White House and 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:14.080 see it through their eyes. It was this incredibly kind 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.760 of transcendent and magical moment where people who just couldn't 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:19.800 believe the White House would ever be that way, could 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:24.120 ever be filled with you know, young vibrant, just kids 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:27.240 trying to figure it out on their best, all of 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.599 these things, and there were people were just so proud 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:31.640 of us, you know, and I think we were all 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:36.080 kind of tired and slowly crawling to an early grave. 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.240 But because you're it's just it's rigorous, right, You're just working. 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:44.039 How many hours do you work a day? Twelve to fourteen, 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:48.159 six seven days a week for years, and even when 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:53.320 you are not physically there, it's just alive in your consciousness. 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.120 How do you compartmentalize that? I'm sure you don't, you know, 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:58.760 like if I saw a BlackBerry today with like the 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:04.520 blinking red light, my I might start twitching just like response, Well, 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:06.599 you know what, it's so good that BlackBerry doesn't exist anymore. 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:09.280 You know, they discontinued, so you don't have to worry 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:12.400 about that ever again. Yeah, but um, yeah it was. 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:16.560 I mean it was extraordinary. But also it's also a job, 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:19.640 Yeah it is. You know, what was the difference in 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:22.479 the managerial styles between Obama and Biden? Was there a 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:27.880 difference in how they delegated work or how they communicated 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:30.400 with you? This is fascinating. You know, no one's ever 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:32.880 asked me this question. Before I feel like it's a 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:35.240 go to know people. I mean, people ask me about 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.360 their personalities, but I want to know about how they're 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:40.440 supposed to run the country. I want to know how 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:44.640 they run in office. I will say this is so, 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:46.240 this is one of those things. I still have a 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:48.640 little bit of Stockholm syndrome from the White House of 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:51.800 like can I talk about it outside of it? But 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:56.240 like no one cares what you know. But I understand 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:59.000 that when it's so involved in it's so much of 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:02.040 your life, for so, how do you compartmentalize to kind 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.480 of separated and you get so fiercely loyal to them 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:06.680 that you just don't want to say anything that might 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:09.760 be taken the wrong way or come off other people too. 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.560 And I think we need to realize that exactly. So, 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:18.720 my my, I would say that President Obama was far 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:23.840 more of a true executive personality wise, whereas President Biden. 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:26.800 Don't forget President Biden searched for like forty years in 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:30.040 the Senate. Like it's such a legist, he's so such 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.920 a decision by committee. He's such a legislator. He wants 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:37.360 everyone's involvement. When he's a collaborator, he is um and 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:44.600 he is much more kind of willing and interested in 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:49.840 kind of thirty people's opinion and synthesizing from that place 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:52.920 and trying to build consensus and find something that works 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:57.080 for as many people as possible, whereas President Obama was 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:00.320 absolutely in the interested in the opinions of experts and 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:04.040 science and his advisors and looking at a problem from 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:07.840 as many potential angles as he could. But I think 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:13.080 he was much more comfortable going alone when he when 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:16.440 he felt that was the right thing to do. And again, 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:21.720 these are like me projecting into your experience. Yeah, I 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:25.440 think I I have a hard time imagining there would 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:27.160 be many people who would disagree with me on that. 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:30.040 I feel like it's a very fair assessment just from 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:32.640 an outside perspective, because there was a lot of decisions 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:37.160 that Obama had to make that we're so so carried 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:40.920 so much weight, and if you have thirty people's opinions 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.040 and that, how do you make the decision? That's something 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.959 that I don't know how you would have to do. Yeah, Yeah, 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:47.280 but you know, I think we all have our own 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:50.719 unique brain chemistry, and there's other there are we all 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:54.440 have our own unique path to getting to a point 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:57.360 where we're poised and ready to make a decision, and 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.200 for some people having a lot of opinions ACT really 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.960 makes it more difficult. And for some people having more, 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:05.640 the more opinions they hear, the more they've got checked 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.480 their own position. So I don't know. I think it's 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:10.079 six and a half dozen. I don't think one way 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:13.000 is inherently better than the other. I think what's important 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:15.600 is that we, as individuals, whether you're the president or not, 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:20.679 understand your own decision making process and understand what works 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:22.920 best for you and then apply that to as many 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:25.200 situations as you can and how you learn best because 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:28.160 everyone learns so differently, and I feel like that goes 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:30.160 into the whole thing, a whole other topic with the 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.720 education system, where we're taught one way, when it's we 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:36.280 all learned so many different ways exactly like standardized tests 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.880 come up. Yeah, no, I mean, we're just we're doing 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:42.000 so many things wrong. It's amazing. I know, it's one 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:43.360 of those things. I don't know if you know this, 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:46.400 but like my life passion is to want to fix 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:48.840 the education system because I've grown up with learning disabilities 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.640 my entire life, and I am so grateful to having 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:53.640 been able to go to a special at school and 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.040 have tutors when that's just not the case for so 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:59.280 many people. And it's just a conversation that's unfortunately not 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:02.280 being had when it affects so one in five kids, 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:04.360 and that's just people that are diagnosed with learning differences. 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.320 I mean, that's amazing, and it is one of my 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.640 my poor friends. UM have to hear me rant about 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:15.959 kind of a lot, and unfortunately repetitively, but all the time, 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:19.680 I'm just something happens that I am just incensed about 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:21.720 what I learned in school. Like I can write cursive 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:23.760 and I can read analog clocks, but I was thirty 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:28.679 before I could appropriately identify my feelings, let alone communicate them. 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:30.480 And I'm just like, what did you teach me? No? 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:32.560 Like I want to I want to know like how 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:37.800 to balance a check, how to do like basic Like yeah, 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.920 there's just just plot missing. Why did no one teach 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:42.800 me like how to make friends or like how to 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:44.680 be a good friend or how do you actually have 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:47.360 a relations like so many things about like being a 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:52.560 human being literally that are really deeply necessary. Um, but no, 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:54.400 it's sorry, I know how to do you know? I 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:56.400 know what the capital of the state. I've never been 0:10:56.440 --> 0:11:00.200 to this, so that's cool. It's something that I think 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:04.199 just seeing how much we've how far we've come in 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:05.840 how far we haven't come in our country in the 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:09.640 past seven years, and kind of taking a moment to 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.400 reflect was being in the White House? Did that make 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:15.200 you believe more in democracy? Or did it make you 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:18.160 doubt it more? Because I feel like we've been through 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:19.960 a lot in the past couple of years and that's 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:22.360 put in put into question And I want to get 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.960 your thoughts on that. You ask a really good questions. Um, 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:32.199 that's that's fascinating. I think that it made Wow, this 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.040 is a great question. I think that it, Um, it 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:40.600 made me recognize democracy as being the miracle that it 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:45.000 actually is. It's literally just people sitting in a room 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:50.360 trying their best, and it is a miracle to made 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:54.280 it this far. Yeah. Um, it is hard. It is 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:59.240 a human enterprise and human beings are gonna human one. 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:03.320 I don't know human beings. Humans are gonna human and 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:07.560 it is amazing we have endured as long as we 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:12.439 actually have. And so I think what it made me, uh, 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:18.000 was really compassionate for how hard it is to try 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:20.960 and do the right thing and come up with a solution. 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:24.679 No problem that gets to the White House is easily solvable, 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:27.200 if solvable at all, right, otherwise it would have been 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:31.959 solved way before it makes it to Washington. And the 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:37.000 sheer kind of scale of the world and how complex 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:40.240 that it is, and not even just this country. I mean, 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.320 this is the third most populous country in the world. 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.199 We have one of the most diverse populations you can 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:49.719 possibly imagine. A regional differences are class differences. I mean, 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:54.880 it's just governing. America is that kind of ungovernable and 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:58.920 the fact that it's been governed so consistently for the 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:05.680 duration of its um of its history is an extraordinary thing. 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:09.959 Do you have hope for the future of our country? 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:13.000 I sort of have to have hope otherwise I can't 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.640 get out of bed. That's so fair, you know, Um 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:20.200 I don't. I am. I'm a big believer that America 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:24.520 is going to feel and be very different and should be. 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:29.400 It actually desperately needs to change. This country does not 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:34.080 work in really fundamental ways. It's just broken. Yeah, I 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:37.800 mean the economy does not. It just doesn't work. Um, 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:42.120 So our education system, all of these major markers that 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:44.960 affects so much of our future too, truly, and that 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:49.400 determine the health of a society are not working at 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.160 nearly the like there's a massive gap in our like 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:55.640 we're one thing that America really is probably the best 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:59.520 in the world at is perpetuating delusions. So and the 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:01.760 Internet it's just so great for that, you know, it 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.680 really helps. And we just love to be delusional about 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.040 how good we are at things, Like we're just really 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:11.560 not doing very well on so many key factors. And 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:13.599 it's like where the aunt that says they're fine and 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.120 they're doing great, when you know they're just not doing great, 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:20.080 you know, and you're just like, but you're crying, but 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:24.440 like im but I'm looking at you know, you're saying 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:30.840 you're okay. Um. You know, like when you compare experiences 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:33.440 around education and the cost of education, when you when 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.000 you and the outcomes of that education, when you experience 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:37.560 like what it is to raise a family, what it 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:39.600 means to have a job, what it means to have benefits, 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.360 what it means to have a civic environment that is 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.960 responsive and adaptable to the changing needs of a population. 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:48.239 When you look at the way that we are responding 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:52.280 to demographic change. Um, America doesn't like change. Well, the 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:55.960 human beings don't know human change. That's so fair myself, 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.080 I mean, despite the fact that we are all the 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:02.360 most inconsistent animals ever. Like I was a different person 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.240 yesterday and it's like you catch me, and the breeze 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:07.600 is coming from a different direction, and the moon is 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:12.200 like you know what I mean, like who is she today? Um? 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:15.920 And yet if anyone else changed, and God help us, 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:21.040 so you know, so a long way of saying, I 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.560 think I have to have hope. But I mean I 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.000 try and be as clear eyed as I possibly can. 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:30.240 And I think this this notion of America as the 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:34.360 city on the hill, as the kind of best freest 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:39.160 country in the world is um is a forest. It 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:41.680 could still be made true, but we would have to 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:46.080 make some pretty substantive and radical and quick decisions. We would. 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.240 And I've been feeling great helpless the past couple of years, 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.120 like many, and I think something that it's I've been 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:53.000 asking myself is what can I do? What can I 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:54.480 do from home? Because there's so many things to do, 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:56.920 it could be overwhelming to start, so for someone in 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.960 college or in high school that wants to start getting 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.440 involved and educating themselves and being an activist. Do you 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:06.320 have any advice on how does how to just take 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.000 two steps forward and get started on that process? I mean, 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:13.560 first and foremost, like, you can't fix something externally if 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.280 it's not fixed internally, right, So when you're that age, 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.240 focus on just being who you want to be. The 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:21.640 freer you are, the freer the person next to you is. 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:23.640 And so if you can find a way to do 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.480 that without doing it at the expense of someone else, 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:29.560 If you can just be a person who is community oriented, 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.480 who is thoughtful and engaged in the world around you, 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:36.720 then that's a phenomenal place to start. I think. Also 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:42.000 I talk, I often compare politics for most people um 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:45.200 to Nascar for me, which is NASCAR is like the 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:47.240 second biggest sport in the countree. I think it's like 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:51.400 a multibillion dollar enterprise. Thousands and thousands of people go 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:55.080 to these rallies or the races. You know, they're on 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:58.880 billboards or magazines, on TV's in the newspaper. It's everywhere, 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:01.360 and I can't tell you anything about it. Like I 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:05.200 get the vague idea like cars driver from what I 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.200 understand five hundred times, which how is no one getting dizzy? 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:10.639 I don't understand what's going on? But like, can't name 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:12.760 you a car, can't name you a driver. I know that, 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:19.080 like Indianapolis, like right, And so it's like despite it 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.280 being completely surrounded by and I grew up in Ohio, 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:26.360 so like I grew up in some NASCAR like world, 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.800 you know, and still managed to avoid having any idea 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.879 what it is. And so I think that's how most 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:37.400 people are about politics. Right. You're surrounded by it, and 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.560 yet we're able to kind of siphon it out of 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:44.560 our worldview. And this is all my my aversion to 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.600 nascars pre algorithms. So I can't even blame that, Like, 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:50.040 I don't know what I was, just ignoring it, right, 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.520 And you know, people are often unaware of the fact 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.320 that there's five hundred thousand elected officials in this country. 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:59.800 I did not know that they're everywhere. Right, really are 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:04.200 are governing the down to the block where you live. Right, 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:06.480 It's not just congress people, it's not just people on 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:09.600 the federal level. It's not just um your state legislators 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:13.879 and senators. It's it's your county commissioners and yours and 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.679 your d A and your sheriff and and so I 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:21.119 think the more you get involved in where and understand 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.199 where you actually are and what your place, even if 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:29.080 it's temporary, right, who look up? Who your representatives are? What? 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:31.880 How many hungry kids are there in your neighborhood? Because 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:36.399 I bet there's some right like what is the we've googled? 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:38.080 We can if we can google it, we can do it. 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:40.639 Like what are the rent laws? And your you know, 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:42.320 how are your schools if you're in high school? How 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:45.960 is your school funded? Is your school funded by property taxes? Like? Okay, 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:48.800 what disparity is that creating between your suburb and the 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.160 kids who grew up just happened to be born down 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:54.720 the street? Um? Is that fair? Is that okay with you? 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:58.160 If not, what does that mean? Right? And I think 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:01.840 figuring out who who you are and figuring out where 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:05.520 you are is the important first step. And you know 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.679 you're doing your podcast, I'm not telling stories. I I 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:13.440 used to work in politics and government. There's like activism 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:17.640 is multifaceted endeavor and people and it is best when 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:21.199 people show up as their authentic selves. And I know 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:23.919 that that's such an overused term. But but it's it's true, 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.320 and like do whatever works, bake cupcakes. You know, I 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:32.399 don't love a crowd. She's she's not an extrovert. Okay, 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:35.760 so I don't really go to protests Like that's not 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:38.240 part of my activism journey. That's not for me. That 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.200 find that very stressful. I sleep for two days afterwards, 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:45.080 and I'm like, good God, do that again. Um that said, 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:49.240 I will call and harass any elected official. Not harass, 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:56.920 but there's yeah, I'll raise money. I will volunteer on campaigns. 0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:00.720 I've volunteered almost sorts of campaigns. I vote religiously. Um, 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.719 I will you know, harangue my friends and my family 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.280 members to all of them. Like. So there's all sorts 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:08.320 of ways to be involved and to be part of 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:11.919 the struggle. And it's just about finding what works for 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:15.960 you and what is sustainable for you. We have to 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:18.080 take one quick break, but when we come back, I 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:20.919 want to talk about your pivot from politics to entertainment, 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:24.639 the impact you hope to make through storytelling, working with Oprah, 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:33.680 and so much more. We'll be right back and we're back. 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:36.919 I love what you said about we have to be 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:39.439 your best self. You have to find yourself first. When 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:43.520 you were finding yourself, what was what was that process? Like, 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:45.800 how did you go about that? Do you have any advice? 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:49.080 Because I'm on that journey now, and boy, it's a journey. 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:52.080 I you know, I'm still finding myself. I feel like 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:54.520 I'm gona have been several different people over the course 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:56.359 of my life, and I think there's always been a 0:20:56.480 --> 0:21:00.919 thread of me that's been consistent in the same. But 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:03.080 it's you know, I talked to friends of mine from 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.280 twenty years ago and we tell stories. I'm just like, oh, man, 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:09.240 I forgot I like that, I forgot I was that 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:13.640 way or whatever. Um, which I think is a good thing. 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:17.160 We should all be trying on different personalities and different 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:22.080 trying different I got my nose piers. Look at that 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:24.960 go for you know. I had my nose piers too, 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:29.560 you know. And I think it's all it's about being 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:32.960 open um to the possibility of change and to the 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:35.600 fact that you don't have to ever be the same person. 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:38.320 It is okay to be a different person. It is 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:41.200 okay to see someone or meet someone and say, oh 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:44.439 I like that about you. I'm going to incorporate that 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:48.240 into my personality. We get into this idea that our 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:50.880 personalities are inherent and that they're fixed, and they're not. 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:54.399 They are dress and they are just a response to 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:57.159