Speaker 1: Hey guys, and welcome back to this week's episode of
Speaker 1: the lest Bireau Podcast. As always, I am your host,
Speaker 1: Sammy Jay, and I hope your week is going well.
Speaker 1: I am so glad that you are here because this
Speaker 1: is probably one of my favorite episodes we've ever put
Speaker 1: out because I got to chat with you one and
Speaker 1: only former special assistant to President Obama and also served
Speaker 1: as director of public Engagement for then Vice President Biden
Speaker 1: carry Twig. She is now also the founder of one
Speaker 1: of the most incredible production and company's Culture House, and
Speaker 1: we talk about everything from politics to entertainment and everything
Speaker 1: in between. I'm gonna let you, guys get right into
Speaker 1: this episode, but I hope you love it as much
Speaker 1: as I do. Harry, thank you so much for taking
Speaker 1: the time to come on my podcast. I look up
Speaker 1: to so much, and not just everything you've accomplished and created,
Speaker 1: but also the types of stories you're telling and the impact.
Speaker 1: It's just so amazing. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: I'm really excited. There's so many things I want to
Speaker 1: get into. I want to start with how you got
Speaker 1: into polity. Because I grew up in New York, my
Speaker 1: mom always listened to the news. So it was just
Speaker 1: kind of in my brain. Was it just something that
Speaker 1: you came about or was ingrained in your family? It
Speaker 1: wasn't ingrained in my family. I have a very My
Speaker 1: dad is steadfastly refused to become a citizen. Um he
Speaker 1: was born and raised in Barbados. And this whole notion
Speaker 1: that when you become a citizen in the US, you
Speaker 1: have to say that you forsake any other allegiance to
Speaker 1: any other countries, Like I can't do that, um, so's
Speaker 1: he's not an American citizen. He does follow politics, he's
Speaker 1: aware of it. But I didn't grow up in a
Speaker 1: political family. And then my mother's side of the family
Speaker 1: is like kind of very waspy, and we don't talk
Speaker 1: about money or you know, politics. And so you landed
Speaker 1: yourself in a very interesting place. I did. But it's
Speaker 1: interesting because my parents are political, even if they're not
Speaker 1: like politically active. And so my mom is a social worker.
Speaker 1: My dad is a black immigrant. My mom was a
Speaker 1: social worker too. I don't think I knew that it's
Speaker 1: so helpful when you have anxiety attacks, really helpful. I mean,
Speaker 1: my mom such a um. But what actually happened was
Speaker 1: when I was about eleven or twelve. I asked my
Speaker 1: mom what government is, and she told me it's old
Speaker 1: white men sitting in a room deciding how free you are,
Speaker 1: which is still the most saying an accurate definition I've
Speaker 1: ever heard. And I remember we were just driving down
Speaker 1: the street in the car, just so casually. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: she was like yeah, she just rattled this off, and like,
Speaker 1: what are you saying. It's like life path changed now
Speaker 1: in that moment, changed the trajectory of my life, because
Speaker 1: at that point I would probably would have been in
Speaker 1: like fifth, sixth grade, and everything you had been taught
Speaker 1: up to that point was like, this is the freest
Speaker 1: country in the world. It is the most equal country.
Speaker 1: I have a dream, right, like all these things. And
Speaker 1: that just really brought home that the kind of contradiction
Speaker 1: that I think so many people understand about America as
Speaker 1: they age or as they go into the adult world,
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, we're kind of full of it. Um.
Speaker 1: But I kind of got introduced to that notion really early,
Speaker 1: and and I decided I was going to be one
Speaker 1: of those people in that room because no one, no
Speaker 1: one's making decisions without me, um. And and that's what
Speaker 1: I did. I feel like politics and being politics, it's
Speaker 1: a whole other universe. And then you know, you go
Speaker 1: into the White House, your special assistant for Obama, and
Speaker 1: you want to just want to make sure I get
Speaker 1: this right director of Public Engagement for under Biden. That's
Speaker 1: a lot of work and I'm so curious, what is
Speaker 1: what was like a day in your life? Then you know,
Speaker 1: it was really fascinating because the White House is this
Speaker 1: incredibly particular place, um and kind of peculiar place in
Speaker 1: that it's this tiny campus, Like the White House is
Speaker 1: actually very small, and you walk up and you see
Speaker 1: the you know, you get off the bus or whatever.
Speaker 1: I sometimes I drove. Sometimes I to the bus and
Speaker 1: you see the iconic building and you walk up. There's
Speaker 1: people protesting outside, or there's there's always action news, you know,
Speaker 1: news cameras and correspond there's something happening around the White House.
Speaker 1: And then you walk in and you have this hallowed experience.
Speaker 1: You go through the gates and then you're still just
Speaker 1: at your job and you're just sort of like if
Speaker 1: Debbie says, well I'm going to me today, like I'm
Speaker 1: just I'm going to flip my desk, you know, but
Speaker 1: you you still have the like petty annoyances and daily
Speaker 1: job and the White House so many of the you know,
Speaker 1: two thousand people that work there are political appointees that
Speaker 1: come in and serve at the pleasure of the President.
Speaker 1: And we are all people who want to change society,
Speaker 1: but also who were type A who love to be
Speaker 1: the smartest person in the room, who are very mission driven,
Speaker 1: who like think they're the best in the brightest. How
Speaker 1: does that work when so many people are also brilliant
Speaker 1: in one room, Like how do you get things done?
Speaker 1: It's a great question. It's a it's a question worth asking,
Speaker 1: you know, and I think it's you know, it can
Speaker 1: be both the greatest thing in the world and it
Speaker 1: can also be, you know, like many like many things
Speaker 1: are best qualities are often sometimes our worst qualities. So
Speaker 1: um so that existed, but you know, it was an
Speaker 1: extraordinary privilege, and I think for me every time other
Speaker 1: I got to bring people into the White House and
Speaker 1: see it through their eyes. It was this incredibly kind
Speaker 1: of transcendent and magical moment where people who just couldn't
Speaker 1: believe the White House would ever be that way, could
Speaker 1: ever be filled with you know, young vibrant, just kids
Speaker 1: trying to figure it out on their best, all of
Speaker 1: these things, and there were people were just so proud
Speaker 1: of us, you know, and I think we were all
Speaker 1: kind of tired and slowly crawling to an early grave.
Speaker 1: But because you're it's just it's rigorous, right, You're just working.
Speaker 1: How many hours do you work a day? Twelve to fourteen,
Speaker 1: six seven days a week for years, and even when
Speaker 1: you are not physically there, it's just alive in your consciousness.
Speaker 1: How do you compartmentalize that? I'm sure you don't, you know,
Speaker 1: like if I saw a BlackBerry today with like the
Speaker 1: blinking red light, my I might start twitching just like response, Well,
Speaker 1: you know what, it's so good that BlackBerry doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1: You know, they discontinued, so you don't have to worry
Speaker 1: about that ever again. Yeah, but um, yeah it was.
Speaker 1: I mean it was extraordinary. But also it's also a job,
Speaker 1: Yeah it is. You know, what was the difference in
Speaker 1: the managerial styles between Obama and Biden? Was there a
Speaker 1: difference in how they delegated work or how they communicated
Speaker 1: with you? This is fascinating. You know, no one's ever
Speaker 1: asked me this question. Before I feel like it's a
Speaker 1: go to know people. I mean, people ask me about
Speaker 1: their personalities, but I want to know about how they're
Speaker 1: supposed to run the country. I want to know how
Speaker 1: they run in office. I will say this is so,
Speaker 1: this is one of those things. I still have a
Speaker 1: little bit of Stockholm syndrome from the White House of
Speaker 1: like can I talk about it outside of it? But
Speaker 1: like no one cares what you know. But I understand
Speaker 1: that when it's so involved in it's so much of
Speaker 1: your life, for so, how do you compartmentalize to kind
Speaker 1: of separated and you get so fiercely loyal to them
Speaker 1: that you just don't want to say anything that might
Speaker 1: be taken the wrong way or come off other people too.
Speaker 1: And I think we need to realize that exactly. So,
Speaker 1: my my, I would say that President Obama was far
Speaker 1: more of a true executive personality wise, whereas President Biden.
Speaker 1: Don't forget President Biden searched for like forty years in
Speaker 1: the Senate. Like it's such a legist, he's so such
Speaker 1: a decision by committee. He's such a legislator. He wants
Speaker 1: everyone's involvement. When he's a collaborator, he is um and
Speaker 1: he is much more kind of willing and interested in
Speaker 1: kind of thirty people's opinion and synthesizing from that place
Speaker 1: and trying to build consensus and find something that works
Speaker 1: for as many people as possible, whereas President Obama was
Speaker 1: absolutely in the interested in the opinions of experts and
Speaker 1: science and his advisors and looking at a problem from
Speaker 1: as many potential angles as he could. But I think
Speaker 1: he was much more comfortable going alone when he when
Speaker 1: he felt that was the right thing to do. And again,
Speaker 1: these are like me projecting into your experience. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think I I have a hard time imagining there would
Speaker 1: be many people who would disagree with me on that.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's a very fair assessment just from
Speaker 1: an outside perspective, because there was a lot of decisions
Speaker 1: that Obama had to make that we're so so carried
Speaker 1: so much weight, and if you have thirty people's opinions
Speaker 1: and that, how do you make the decision? That's something
Speaker 1: that I don't know how you would have to do. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you know, I think we all have our own
Speaker 1: unique brain chemistry, and there's other there are we all
Speaker 1: have our own unique path to getting to a point
Speaker 1: where we're poised and ready to make a decision, and
Speaker 1: for some people having a lot of opinions ACT really
Speaker 1: makes it more difficult. And for some people having more,
Speaker 1: the more opinions they hear, the more they've got checked
Speaker 1: their own position. So I don't know. I think it's
Speaker 1: six and a half dozen. I don't think one way
Speaker 1: is inherently better than the other. I think what's important
Speaker 1: is that we, as individuals, whether you're the president or not,
Speaker 1: understand your own decision making process and understand what works
Speaker 1: best for you and then apply that to as many
Speaker 1: situations as you can and how you learn best because
Speaker 1: everyone learns so differently, and I feel like that goes
Speaker 1: into the whole thing, a whole other topic with the
Speaker 1: education system, where we're taught one way, when it's we
Speaker 1: all learned so many different ways exactly like standardized tests
Speaker 1: come up. Yeah, no, I mean, we're just we're doing
Speaker 1: so many things wrong. It's amazing. I know, it's one
Speaker 1: of those things. I don't know if you know this,
Speaker 1: but like my life passion is to want to fix
Speaker 1: the education system because I've grown up with learning disabilities
Speaker 1: my entire life, and I am so grateful to having
Speaker 1: been able to go to a special at school and
Speaker 1: have tutors when that's just not the case for so
Speaker 1: many people. And it's just a conversation that's unfortunately not
Speaker 1: being had when it affects so one in five kids,
Speaker 1: and that's just people that are diagnosed with learning differences.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's amazing, and it is one of my
Speaker 1: my poor friends. UM have to hear me rant about
Speaker 1: kind of a lot, and unfortunately repetitively, but all the time,
Speaker 1: I'm just something happens that I am just incensed about
Speaker 1: what I learned in school. Like I can write cursive
Speaker 1: and I can read analog clocks, but I was thirty
Speaker 1: before I could appropriately identify my feelings, let alone communicate them.
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, what did you teach me? No?
Speaker 1: Like I want to I want to know like how
Speaker 1: to balance a check, how to do like basic Like yeah,
Speaker 1: there's just just plot missing. Why did no one teach
Speaker 1: me like how to make friends or like how to
Speaker 1: be a good friend or how do you actually have
Speaker 1: a relations like so many things about like being a
Speaker 1: human being literally that are really deeply necessary. Um, but no,
Speaker 1: it's sorry, I know how to do you know? I
Speaker 1: know what the capital of the state. I've never been
Speaker 1: to this, so that's cool. It's something that I think
Speaker 1: just seeing how much we've how far we've come in
Speaker 1: how far we haven't come in our country in the
Speaker 1: past seven years, and kind of taking a moment to
Speaker 1: reflect was being in the White House? Did that make
Speaker 1: you believe more in democracy? Or did it make you
Speaker 1: doubt it more? Because I feel like we've been through
Speaker 1: a lot in the past couple of years and that's
Speaker 1: put in put into question And I want to get
Speaker 1: your thoughts on that. You ask a really good questions. Um,
Speaker 1: that's that's fascinating. I think that it made Wow, this
Speaker 1: is a great question. I think that it, Um, it
Speaker 1: made me recognize democracy as being the miracle that it
Speaker 1: actually is. It's literally just people sitting in a room
Speaker 1: trying their best, and it is a miracle to made
Speaker 1: it this far. Yeah. Um, it is hard. It is
Speaker 1: a human enterprise and human beings are gonna human one.
Speaker 1: I don't know human beings. Humans are gonna human and
Speaker 1: it is amazing we have endured as long as we
Speaker 1: actually have. And so I think what it made me, uh,
Speaker 1: was really compassionate for how hard it is to try
Speaker 1: and do the right thing and come up with a solution.
Speaker 1: No problem that gets to the White House is easily solvable,
Speaker 1: if solvable at all, right, otherwise it would have been
Speaker 1: solved way before it makes it to Washington. And the
Speaker 1: sheer kind of scale of the world and how complex
Speaker 1: that it is, and not even just this country. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is the third most populous country in the world.
Speaker 1: We have one of the most diverse populations you can
Speaker 1: possibly imagine. A regional differences are class differences. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just governing. America is that kind of ungovernable and
Speaker 1: the fact that it's been governed so consistently for the
Speaker 1: duration of its um of its history is an extraordinary thing.
Speaker 1: Do you have hope for the future of our country?
Speaker 1: I sort of have to have hope otherwise I can't
Speaker 1: get out of bed. That's so fair, you know, Um
Speaker 1: I don't. I am. I'm a big believer that America
Speaker 1: is going to feel and be very different and should be.
Speaker 1: It actually desperately needs to change. This country does not
Speaker 1: work in really fundamental ways. It's just broken. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean the economy does not. It just doesn't work. Um,
Speaker 1: So our education system, all of these major markers that
Speaker 1: affects so much of our future too, truly, and that
Speaker 1: determine the health of a society are not working at
Speaker 1: nearly the like there's a massive gap in our like
Speaker 1: we're one thing that America really is probably the best
Speaker 1: in the world at is perpetuating delusions. So and the
Speaker 1: Internet it's just so great for that, you know, it
Speaker 1: really helps. And we just love to be delusional about
Speaker 1: how good we are at things, Like we're just really
Speaker 1: not doing very well on so many key factors. And
Speaker 1: it's like where the aunt that says they're fine and
Speaker 1: they're doing great, when you know they're just not doing great,
Speaker 1: you know, and you're just like, but you're crying, but
Speaker 1: like im but I'm looking at you know, you're saying
Speaker 1: you're okay. Um. You know, like when you compare experiences
Speaker 1: around education and the cost of education, when you when
Speaker 1: you and the outcomes of that education, when you experience
Speaker 1: like what it is to raise a family, what it
Speaker 1: means to have a job, what it means to have benefits,
Speaker 1: what it means to have a civic environment that is
Speaker 1: responsive and adaptable to the changing needs of a population.
Speaker 1: When you look at the way that we are responding
Speaker 1: to demographic change. Um, America doesn't like change. Well, the
Speaker 1: human beings don't know human change. That's so fair myself,
Speaker 1: I mean, despite the fact that we are all the
Speaker 1: most inconsistent animals ever. Like I was a different person
Speaker 1: yesterday and it's like you catch me, and the breeze
Speaker 1: is coming from a different direction, and the moon is
Speaker 1: like you know what I mean, like who is she today? Um?
Speaker 1: And yet if anyone else changed, and God help us,
Speaker 1: so you know, so a long way of saying, I
Speaker 1: think I have to have hope. But I mean I
Speaker 1: try and be as clear eyed as I possibly can.
Speaker 1: And I think this this notion of America as the
Speaker 1: city on the hill, as the kind of best freest
Speaker 1: country in the world is um is a forest. It
Speaker 1: could still be made true, but we would have to
Speaker 1: make some pretty substantive and radical and quick decisions. We would.
Speaker 1: And I've been feeling great helpless the past couple of years,
Speaker 1: like many, and I think something that it's I've been
Speaker 1: asking myself is what can I do? What can I
Speaker 1: do from home? Because there's so many things to do,
Speaker 1: it could be overwhelming to start, so for someone in
Speaker 1: college or in high school that wants to start getting
Speaker 1: involved and educating themselves and being an activist. Do you
Speaker 1: have any advice on how does how to just take
Speaker 1: two steps forward and get started on that process? I mean,
Speaker 1: first and foremost, like, you can't fix something externally if
Speaker 1: it's not fixed internally, right, So when you're that age,
Speaker 1: focus on just being who you want to be. The
Speaker 1: freer you are, the freer the person next to you is.
Speaker 1: And so if you can find a way to do
Speaker 1: that without doing it at the expense of someone else,
Speaker 1: If you can just be a person who is community oriented,
Speaker 1: who is thoughtful and engaged in the world around you,
Speaker 1: then that's a phenomenal place to start. I think. Also
Speaker 1: I talk, I often compare politics for most people um
Speaker 1: to Nascar for me, which is NASCAR is like the
Speaker 1: second biggest sport in the countree. I think it's like
Speaker 1: a multibillion dollar enterprise. Thousands and thousands of people go
Speaker 1: to these rallies or the races. You know, they're on
Speaker 1: billboards or magazines, on TV's in the newspaper. It's everywhere,
Speaker 1: and I can't tell you anything about it. Like I
Speaker 1: get the vague idea like cars driver from what I
Speaker 1: understand five hundred times, which how is no one getting dizzy?
Speaker 1: I don't understand what's going on? But like, can't name
Speaker 1: you a car, can't name you a driver. I know that,
Speaker 1: like Indianapolis, like right, And so it's like despite it
Speaker 1: being completely surrounded by and I grew up in Ohio,
Speaker 1: so like I grew up in some NASCAR like world,
Speaker 1: you know, and still managed to avoid having any idea
Speaker 1: what it is. And so I think that's how most
Speaker 1: people are about politics. Right. You're surrounded by it, and
Speaker 1: yet we're able to kind of siphon it out of
Speaker 1: our worldview. And this is all my my aversion to
Speaker 1: nascars pre algorithms. So I can't even blame that, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what I was, just ignoring it, right,
Speaker 1: And you know, people are often unaware of the fact
Speaker 1: that there's five hundred thousand elected officials in this country.
Speaker 1: I did not know that they're everywhere. Right, really are
Speaker 1: are governing the down to the block where you live. Right,
Speaker 1: It's not just congress people, it's not just people on
Speaker 1: the federal level. It's not just um your state legislators
Speaker 1: and senators. It's it's your county commissioners and yours and
Speaker 1: your d A and your sheriff and and so I
Speaker 1: think the more you get involved in where and understand
Speaker 1: where you actually are and what your place, even if
Speaker 1: it's temporary, right, who look up? Who your representatives are? What?
Speaker 1: How many hungry kids are there in your neighborhood? Because
Speaker 1: I bet there's some right like what is the we've googled?
Speaker 1: We can if we can google it, we can do it.
Speaker 1: Like what are the rent laws? And your you know,
Speaker 1: how are your schools if you're in high school? How
Speaker 1: is your school funded? Is your school funded by property taxes? Like? Okay,
Speaker 1: what disparity is that creating between your suburb and the
Speaker 1: kids who grew up just happened to be born down
Speaker 1: the street? Um? Is that fair? Is that okay with you?
Speaker 1: If not, what does that mean? Right? And I think
Speaker 1: figuring out who who you are and figuring out where
Speaker 1: you are is the important first step. And you know
Speaker 1: you're doing your podcast, I'm not telling stories. I I
Speaker 1: used to work in politics and government. There's like activism
Speaker 1: is multifaceted endeavor and people and it is best when
Speaker 1: people show up as their authentic selves. And I know
Speaker 1: that that's such an overused term. But but it's it's true,
Speaker 1: and like do whatever works, bake cupcakes. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't love a crowd. She's she's not an extrovert. Okay,
Speaker 1: so I don't really go to protests Like that's not
Speaker 1: part of my activism journey. That's not for me. That
Speaker 1: find that very stressful. I sleep for two days afterwards,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, good God, do that again. Um that said,
Speaker 1: I will call and harass any elected official. Not harass,
Speaker 1: but there's yeah, I'll raise money. I will volunteer on campaigns.
Speaker 1: I've volunteered almost sorts of campaigns. I vote religiously. Um,
Speaker 1: I will you know, harangue my friends and my family
Speaker 1: members to all of them. Like. So there's all sorts
Speaker 1: of ways to be involved and to be part of
Speaker 1: the struggle. And it's just about finding what works for
Speaker 1: you and what is sustainable for you. We have to
Speaker 1: take one quick break, but when we come back, I
Speaker 1: want to talk about your pivot from politics to entertainment,
Speaker 1: the impact you hope to make through storytelling, working with Oprah,
Speaker 1: and so much more. We'll be right back and we're back.
Speaker 1: I love what you said about we have to be
Speaker 1: your best self. You have to find yourself first. When
Speaker 1: you were finding yourself, what was what was that process? Like,
Speaker 1: how did you go about that? Do you have any advice?
Speaker 1: Because I'm on that journey now, and boy, it's a journey.
Speaker 1: I you know, I'm still finding myself. I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm gona have been several different people over the course
Speaker 1: of my life, and I think there's always been a
Speaker 1: thread of me that's been consistent in the same. But
Speaker 1: it's you know, I talked to friends of mine from
Speaker 1: twenty years ago and we tell stories. I'm just like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: I forgot I like that, I forgot I was that
Speaker 1: way or whatever. Um, which I think is a good thing.
Speaker 1: We should all be trying on different personalities and different
Speaker 1: trying different I got my nose piers. Look at that
Speaker 1: go for you know. I had my nose piers too,
Speaker 1: you know. And I think it's all it's about being
Speaker 1: open um to the possibility of change and to the
Speaker 1: fact that you don't have to ever be the same person.
Speaker 1: It is okay to be a different person. It is
Speaker 1: okay to see someone or meet someone and say, oh
Speaker 1: I like that about you. I'm going to incorporate that
Speaker 1: into my personality. We get into this idea that our
Speaker 1: personalities are inherent and that they're fixed, and they're not.
Speaker 1: They are dress and they are just a response to
Speaker 1: some nonsense that happened when we were kids. Like my
Speaker 1: older sisters a visual artist. She's incredibly talented and has
Speaker 1: always been so. Not only is she just artistically gifted,
Speaker 1: but she had plus five years on me motor skill wise.
Speaker 1: And I realized that I was competing with her for
Speaker 1: like my little drawings and stuff in like second and
Speaker 1: third grade, and she was always so much better, and
Speaker 1: so I made me feel inadequate as a little kid.
Speaker 1: And so I was like, oh, I'm not artistic, I'm
Speaker 1: not creative. I'm not doing that. That's my sister's thing.
Speaker 1: I'm going to go do something completely different because I
Speaker 1: don't want to be compared to my sister and I
Speaker 1: don't want to compete with her. I convinced myself at
Speaker 1: like seven that I wasn't a creative like who And
Speaker 1: then I'm still living that life when I'm twenty eight. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm still living that life and thinking of not thinking
Speaker 1: of myself as a creative person because of seven year
Speaker 1: old moment when I comply tie her shoes because someone
Speaker 1: who can't tie her shoes, it's still running my life.
Speaker 1: That's that's what. That's ridiculous, um, And yet we all
Speaker 1: do that. It's so new ways. And it took me
Speaker 1: actually describing myself as not being a creative person in
Speaker 1: front of my sister, and my sister calling me out
Speaker 1: and be like, what are you talking about? Why don't
Speaker 1: you think you're creative? But like my seven year old
Speaker 1: self said it, what are you talking about? Just total nonsense?
Speaker 1: So you know, I then got to take on this
Speaker 1: other personality and this explore this other side of myself,
Speaker 1: and I think that that evolution is really important. And
Speaker 1: then I think one thing that we don't say enough,
Speaker 1: and I certainly feel like I wasn't told enough, is
Speaker 1: that pain has a lot of information in it, and
Speaker 1: no generation of human beings ever has found a way
Speaker 1: to live a pain free life, and no generation ever
Speaker 1: will and if they do, it's like the end, right,
Speaker 1: because there's nothing then to evolve, And then you don't
Speaker 1: appreciate the good if you don't have exactly, And pain
Speaker 1: is terrible and it sucks and none of us should
Speaker 1: wallow in it. But if you can just sit with
Speaker 1: it and try not to avoid it and try to sit,
Speaker 1: you know, and try and sit with it for as
Speaker 1: long as you need to at least take the time
Speaker 1: to ask the question, like what information is here? Anger
Speaker 1: has a lot of information in it, And I know,
Speaker 1: for me, I didn't let myself be angry for years
Speaker 1: and years and years because it was not what I
Speaker 1: was conditioned to do right, and I had really bad
Speaker 1: temper when I was a kid. My parents were always
Speaker 1: trying to moderate it because they're just explode and so
Speaker 1: but the my way of doing that, instead of learning
Speaker 1: how to feel and process my emotions, was to suppress them.
Speaker 1: But anger has a lot of information. That's where you
Speaker 1: find out what your boundaries are. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously avoid harming yourself or harming anyone else, or making impulsive,
Speaker 1: rash decisions, but also try and sit in your feelings
Speaker 1: enough to understand what information is there and why your
Speaker 1: body is making you feel these things, so that you
Speaker 1: can learn how to again be who you are or
Speaker 1: figure out how you want to exist in the world
Speaker 1: at that particular time, and ask yourself those questions ongoing, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, I have this idea that I'm going to
Speaker 1: start a new career every ten years. That I could
Speaker 1: see you doing that, that manifested girl. Um. And I
Speaker 1: think part of that is because I'm someone who needs
Speaker 1: external changes in order to ask myself internally. If I'm like,
Speaker 1: we'll check up, how are we doing? And the more
Speaker 1: I change my external circumstances, the more primed I am
Speaker 1: to explore those questions internally. And that's the process that
Speaker 1: works for me. But I think it really starts with
Speaker 1: being open to the idea that you're a lot more
Speaker 1: malleable than you think, and your personality is a lot
Speaker 1: more of a choice than than we think. That's so true.
Speaker 1: I've been living my life in three months chunks over
Speaker 1: the past because I've noticed how much I change in
Speaker 1: three months, my interest change. I feel like I've evolved
Speaker 1: more and grow and like, if that can happen in
Speaker 1: three months, we're just gonna plan in three months, because
Speaker 1: if we try a year, we're gonna be so different
Speaker 1: from then. And it's worked out so well. I love this.
Speaker 1: I know we're coming up our and three months, so
Speaker 1: we get to refresh it again. We get to figure
Speaker 1: out our new intentions, priorities, So I love it. That's great.
Speaker 1: Something that I'm very, very very excited to chat with
Speaker 1: you about. Is this pivot in your career that you've
Speaker 1: had something I'm learning in school. They're kind of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're going to teach you this. This is what you
Speaker 1: have to do the rest of your life and then
Speaker 1: get good at and that's it. But frankly, there are
Speaker 1: so many things and I feel like I can I
Speaker 1: feel sometimes trapped at school because I feel like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is the one thing I have to do, but
Speaker 1: no life can change. And so concuruise and you did that.
Speaker 1: You went from politics to storytelling and created this incredible
Speaker 1: production company that I have been very fortunate to intern for.
Speaker 1: And I love everything you guys are creating because it
Speaker 1: it feels like it's bigger than ourselves. And so I
Speaker 1: was wondering what that transition was like and what made
Speaker 1: you switch to this field. Well, first of all, thank you,
Speaker 1: and it's been such a pleasure to have you at
Speaker 1: Culture House. So much fun. Yeah, um, if you can't
Speaker 1: tell already, it's like, I'm very invested in this idea
Speaker 1: that we can all change and we all should change.
Speaker 1: That's and that's really good for us. I sort of
Speaker 1: you know, I've wanted to work at the White House
Speaker 1: since I was thirteen or fourteen, and then I get there.
Speaker 1: I'm on my way out of the White House at thirty. Yea,
Speaker 1: what do you do when your last two bosses are
Speaker 1: the president? You know what I mean? Where do you
Speaker 1: go from there? It's true, It's like it's like my
Speaker 1: former boss like, my former bosses are the former president
Speaker 1: United current president? Like, what do you do from here? No?
Speaker 1: Just I'm ruined, Like I can't work. Can you imagine
Speaker 1: anyone telling me what to do? Somebody married? It wasn't
Speaker 1: going to go well anywhere, and that's why you start
Speaker 1: your own company. It wasn't gonna go well anyway. Um My,
Speaker 1: one of my former bosses from the White House told
Speaker 1: me I'm the worst employee he's ever had because I
Speaker 1: kept referring to us as being colleagues. He's like, we
Speaker 1: are not colleagues. Do you work for me? But like
Speaker 1: we worked together though, but do I It's not reversed
Speaker 1: a little bit. Such a nightmare. Um but yeah, So
Speaker 1: I left the White House at thirty and realized I
Speaker 1: had no other hobbies or interests. What was that like? Oh?
Speaker 1: Scary awful it was. I had a total meltdown. I
Speaker 1: had a total breakdown at thirty. It was spectacular, truly
Speaker 1: one of the best things that ever happened to me.
Speaker 1: But like, oh God, wouldn't wish it, wouldn't wish, wish
Speaker 1: it on an enemy, and yet would work wish it
Speaker 1: on everyone. So I think the short answer is, I
Speaker 1: don't know that's actually gonna be that short. But I
Speaker 1: think two things were really happening for me at that
Speaker 1: moment in time. One was that I was exploring this
Speaker 1: idea of myself as a creative person. Two was that
Speaker 1: it was really clear that what we so much of
Speaker 1: what we were trying to accomplish in the Obama years
Speaker 1: were culturally ahead where the country was, and in order
Speaker 1: to legislate or build policy around something, the idea for
Speaker 1: it really has to exist first in the kind of
Speaker 1: collective imagination of the country. Right, we saw what happened
Speaker 1: with healthcare, whereas we didn't really have a framework, the
Speaker 1: general population did not have a framework for what universal
Speaker 1: health care could be, and so it was really easily
Speaker 1: to then manipulate that into something that was like about
Speaker 1: death panels and like all the other nonsense and Sarah
Speaker 1: Palin and her cohort were kind of propagating at that time,
Speaker 1: so useful, helpful to the American people, could God. But
Speaker 1: now the people have had it for four years or
Speaker 1: ten years, or however long it's been. I can't not
Speaker 1: time isn't a thing anymore. I don't even worry about it.
Speaker 1: But now the people have had it, they are like
Speaker 1: religiously defending it. Right. And so whereas or thirty five
Speaker 1: percent of the country supported it prior to its enactment,
Speaker 1: now six does. And we see the same thing when
Speaker 1: it comes to things like marriage or quality. Right, But
Speaker 1: marriage equality doesn't happen without will and grace, without Ellen's
Speaker 1: de generous, without Rosie o'donald, without the sort of so
Speaker 1: many cultural touchstones that helped introduce people and beloved kind
Speaker 1: of figures into this world or into the popular consciousness
Speaker 1: of the country. And so when I was leaving the
Speaker 1: White House, it was really clear that that dynamic was
Speaker 1: at play around a range of issues, whether it was
Speaker 1: sustainability and climate change, whether it was race relations, whether
Speaker 1: it was gender roles, gender norms, gender relations were still
Speaker 1: very much operating in a country that believes in a
Speaker 1: zero sum game. Right, that for black people to have
Speaker 1: rights and dignity has to be taken from white people.
Speaker 1: For women to have equality, opportunity, agency, authority has to
Speaker 1: be taken from men. It's not like we can all
Speaker 1: just coexist, which is which is such an absurd way
Speaker 1: of thinking about it, Like as though freedom is a
Speaker 1: bicycle that you can just take. I lost, I lost
Speaker 1: the tire. I need one now, you know, Like these
Speaker 1: are concepts so in the same around wealth, Right, those
Speaker 1: were all things that were really clear. We're being affected
Speaker 1: by the stories that we were telling in this country,
Speaker 1: Like the inevitable, uh, the inevitable end result of John Wayne,
Speaker 1: one man goes alone and he's doing it his way
Speaker 1: and we're gonna love him for it. Anyway, Like the
Speaker 1: inevitable result of that story that we have told over
Speaker 1: and over and over and over again is Donald Trump. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because he starts running for president, Everyone's like, oh, I
Speaker 1: like that guy. But it's because we've been watching him
Speaker 1: on TV. Not only just him on TV, but that
Speaker 1: particular story he was telling feels familiar. Right, It's the
Speaker 1: Top Gun and I watched the hell out of Top
Speaker 1: Gun and like nearly wept a Maverick. I don't say
Speaker 1: I love that this is a perfect movie. I was
Speaker 1: obsessed with that, loved it, But it's the exact same thing,
Speaker 1: like one Man on a Mission, right, because like the
Speaker 1: inevitable end result of those stories is total dysfunction. Um.
Speaker 1: And so we have to tell different stories if we
Speaker 1: want different political outcomes. And I think I was starting
Speaker 1: to realize that as I was leaving the White House.
Speaker 1: And to me, it's not aid. Yeah, And and it's
Speaker 1: not a coincidence to me that so many people from
Speaker 1: the Obama era, including the Obama's have now gone into storytelling,
Speaker 1: because I think we're all sort of making that sort
Speaker 1: of understanding that the country needs a cultural scaffold in
Speaker 1: order to build meaningful kind of collective policy around um,
Speaker 1: some of these other ways of seeing the world. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So that's that's why I left. I was also really tired,
Speaker 1: how Okay, So I just have to know, like, once
Speaker 1: your job ended, how like what was your record of sleep? Like?
Speaker 1: Was there like a total like you like a full
Speaker 1: to only four hours? Seriously? Has anyone have you read
Speaker 1: this book by Tessa mass Fe My Year of Rest
Speaker 1: and Relaxation. No, but I need to now well, it's
Speaker 1: super morbid, fantastic. She well she's a fantastic fiction writer,
Speaker 1: but she's just dark, dark and reverse. But anyway, so
Speaker 1: this girl basically just like medicates herself and stays in
Speaker 1: bed for a year. So that was me, but without
Speaker 1: the drugs. I mentally did it years. I mean from
Speaker 1: for the first eight months, I was probably asleep as
Speaker 1: much as I was awake, Like I probably slept twelve
Speaker 1: up for yeah, for a solid half year. Um, and
Speaker 1: I didn't really work. I took um, which I encourage
Speaker 1: everyone to do, and no one really seems to take
Speaker 1: me up as much as they should um just to
Speaker 1: not work. And so I just didn't work for like
Speaker 1: eight months. What was that? That nice? It was amazing.
Speaker 1: I went to like everything people invited me to, and
Speaker 1: it was one of those things was like, do not
Speaker 1: invite me to your grandma's house and sis, because I
Speaker 1: will show up. I'm looking at plane tickets right now.
Speaker 1: I love Grandma's I love sicily like let's roll. It's
Speaker 1: like my life motto right now. Funk it? Why not exactly? Yeah? Um,
Speaker 1: so I thought, yeah, I had to funk it? Why
Speaker 1: not here? And but a sleepy one I was asleep
Speaker 1: for a very fort that's okay, yeah, And then moved
Speaker 1: up to New York, ended up meeting my business partners,
Speaker 1: who the women who then became my business partners, um,
Speaker 1: and we start a culture house, and now I'm in
Speaker 1: l A and you know, still doing my best. I
Speaker 1: want to talk about hairtails for a second, because I
Speaker 1: think the messaging of the show is so important, and
Speaker 1: I think the casting and the way it's filmed, the
Speaker 1: aesthetic of it is just so on point and just
Speaker 1: so perfect. And I just have to know what was
Speaker 1: it like working with Oprah? It's wild and what was
Speaker 1: that like? You know, you've done, You've done the press,
Speaker 1: You've done Oprah. What's next? Basically the um I mean
Speaker 1: talk about people who are in their pocket, right, and
Speaker 1: no one can see my hand gesture, right, there's a
Speaker 1: handshure hand gesture that is illustrating what I'm saying. But
Speaker 1: you know, and she'll say it. Ms. Winfrey will say,
Speaker 1: you know, she's living in her purpose, like she found
Speaker 1: her like she found the zone, the portal through which
Speaker 1: she makes all of her decisions and all of her
Speaker 1: actions are in integrity with her purpose. And that's why
Speaker 1: it all works. And it works so extraordinarily well, and
Speaker 1: you feel that you feel in the same way that
Speaker 1: we all pick up on all sorts of things about
Speaker 1: each other. Yeah, there's a real magnetism to her, and
Speaker 1: there's a real sense of like, oh, she is in integrity,
Speaker 1: Like she does what she says, she says what she means.
Speaker 1: She is a consistent and confidently consistent human being, ing
Speaker 1: who even in sort of micro moments and micro movements,
Speaker 1: is hyper present, like she's showing up beauti fully to
Speaker 1: whatever is happening in that moment, which I think in
Speaker 1: Tracy is the same way. I mean, Tracy is an
Speaker 1: extraordinarily embodied and present person when she is in front
Speaker 1: of you, she is in front of you and all
Speaker 1: of hers there, and she's not thinking about what she
Speaker 1: could be doing instead, or how does she look, or
Speaker 1: how does she think the other person thinks she looks.
Speaker 1: I mean, all we all have those things. But when
Speaker 1: she taps in, she becomes an extraordinarily powerful person. And
Speaker 1: not to say that she's not powerful all the time,
Speaker 1: but it's really impressive. Like people who have figured out
Speaker 1: how to do that are extraordinary to be around. And
Speaker 1: I think it is the thing that defines their greatness, right,
Speaker 1: It's their ability to step into whatever it is, the
Speaker 1: energy or the life force or their own sort of potential,
Speaker 1: and it just radiates off them. I just started her
Speaker 1: book What I Know for Sure, so I'm excited to
Speaker 1: get into it because I am like halfway through her book, Uh,
Speaker 1: what Happened to You with Dr Perry Um. So I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm just infusing my brain with Oprah right now.
Speaker 1: So I feel like I'm in a great place. So totally.
Speaker 1: I've read that. I've read What I Know for Sure.
Speaker 1: It's extraordinary and it's like she talks about this concept
Speaker 1: a lot in her book, and you're sort of like
Speaker 1: describes very clearly what it is she's doing, and it's like,
Speaker 1: how girl, how can I just say the environment that
Speaker 1: you've created for this production company has been so refreshing
Speaker 1: I even though it's just been online, I have felt
Speaker 1: more inspired, more creative, and more like I want to
Speaker 1: make an impact than I have in school in the
Speaker 1: past year and a half. Oh, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: I think it's so important that there's we're talking about
Speaker 1: how much our culture effects society, because it truly does.
Speaker 1: From your girl Up series, like you're truly highlighting the good,
Speaker 1: the bad, and the ugly, which is I think what
Speaker 1: we need help people feel us alone, Like that's if
Speaker 1: nothing else, just tell the truth straight up. Let's be real,
Speaker 1: you know, if you can give someone nothing else, give
Speaker 1: them the truth, give them honesty. It's just it's so basic,
Speaker 1: and yet it is so undervalued and enterprised in our
Speaker 1: community and in the world and in our society. Um.
Speaker 1: And it's just that you cannot be free without the truth.
Speaker 1: Are you feeling creatively fulfilled right now? I am? I
Speaker 1: think I UM, I think that I am taking a
Speaker 1: very um what's the word broad interpretation of creative creativity?
Speaker 1: And I try and don't limit yourself, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? I agree, um, And so I am trying
Speaker 1: to live a creative life. And I don't mean that
Speaker 1: sort of in an art his stick practice sense, although
Speaker 1: I do have a writing practice, and I obviously make
Speaker 1: a film and TV. But it's also like I went
Speaker 1: on and walk on the beach this morning. I go
Speaker 1: surfing a lot, I go on hikes. I try. And
Speaker 1: I was walking down the street and saw I was
Speaker 1: watching the sunset last night, and like a man came
Speaker 1: by and gave me a big thumbs up. You know,
Speaker 1: I saw this wild looking man in the captain's hat.
Speaker 1: That made me just chuckle. Like all these wonderful things
Speaker 1: that happen if you're open to them, not even just synchronicities,
Speaker 1: but just humans are hilarious. They're so funny, and so
Speaker 1: much good stuff is happening on your block right now.
Speaker 1: You know, whatever happened to the art of people watching? Honestly,
Speaker 1: it's just I will go on campus and I will
Speaker 1: just or sometimes if even if I'm at a party,
Speaker 1: I'll just sit just to watch what I'm like. It's
Speaker 1: just so interesting seeing other humans interact together. Um or
Speaker 1: like I like to camp. I'm a big camper, and
Speaker 1: so see, I want to go camping. I've never been
Speaker 1: before ever, I've never from the city. You're such a city.
Speaker 1: I'm such a city. It's so unfortunate. So now I'm like,
Speaker 1: I need to go. I need to make up for everything.
Speaker 1: And I wasn't able to do a great spot. I mean,
Speaker 1: California is such extraordinary camping. So I went on a
Speaker 1: big road trip over the summer and did it by myself.
Speaker 1: I had not I had not camped by myself before
Speaker 1: and so I camped by myself for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: A couple of weeks by myself. What was that like?
Speaker 1: It was awesome? It was so good. So I went
Speaker 1: all around the Southwest in California and Arizona, Utah, Nevada,
Speaker 1: and so inspired, I went to Paris by myself this summer.
Speaker 1: It was really like for me, the summer was really
Speaker 1: trying to see how much can we grow and how
Speaker 1: much can we evolve? And so I've just been trying
Speaker 1: to do more things by myself, whether it's taking myself
Speaker 1: on dates or like doing anything like that. And so
Speaker 1: like like that's like going camping, Like that's like so
Speaker 1: impressive to me that you can do that. That's like
Speaker 1: a goal I want to hit one day. Well it
Speaker 1: took me thirty six years, Like you're there, but yeah,
Speaker 1: but I'm here. Um. And it was one of the
Speaker 1: most rewarding things I've ever done for myself. Um. And
Speaker 1: I'm a big believer in taking care of carry like
Speaker 1: I'd pamper her as best. So how do what is
Speaker 1: self care? For you? Self care is entirely and fulsomely
Speaker 1: and enthusiastically rejecting the idea of being busy. I am
Speaker 1: not busy. I don't ever try to be busy. I
Speaker 1: have no aspirations to be busy. I want to move
Speaker 1: as slowly as humanly possible. I mean, like ambling just
Speaker 1: taken my sweet time. UM. I think it is knowing
Speaker 1: what at that moment in time. My five needs for
Speaker 1: happiness always are. I'm always kind of checking in on
Speaker 1: that list. So I need to be in nature, I
Speaker 1: need to have community, I need to write, UM, I
Speaker 1: need to be of service, and UM, I need love. Right,
Speaker 1: and so if I meeting each of those things, and
Speaker 1: those also have a bright a broad term, but if
Speaker 1: I'm meeting those things on each given day, I'm going
Speaker 1: to have a spectacular day, right if I like, those
Speaker 1: are the things that I am prioritizing. UM. Self care
Speaker 1: is also for me about embracing mediocrity. Like there's there's
Speaker 1: really like three things I need to be good at.
Speaker 1: Need to be a good family member, I need to
Speaker 1: be a good friend, and I need to keep a
Speaker 1: roof over my head. And outside of those three, and
Speaker 1: I need to be good to myself. So four things
Speaker 1: that I need to be really good at, I don't
Speaker 1: have to be good at anything else. Really, and so
Speaker 1: I take all the pressure off myself to be good
Speaker 1: at anything else. I love making good film and TV.
Speaker 1: I love being a good writer. I love being good surfer.
Speaker 1: I love being good at tennis. If I'm not good
Speaker 1: at any of those things, it doesn't actually matter. When
Speaker 1: I'm on my deathbed. I'm not gonna be like man,
Speaker 1: you know that recreational game. I played doubles two thousand,
Speaker 1: you know two care Um I'll be I'll die happy
Speaker 1: if I was good to my sister and good to
Speaker 1: my nephews, and good to my parents, and good to
Speaker 1: my friends, and good to my partners, and good to
Speaker 1: you know, um, the world and my community. And that's
Speaker 1: enough for me. Um. And I lived the life that
Speaker 1: I really actually wanted to live. And you're doing it
Speaker 1: for you, yeah, you know, um. And so so, embracing
Speaker 1: mediocrity is a way that I take care of mine.
Speaker 1: Like I'm so bad at tennis, it's amazing. Oh. I
Speaker 1: joined a tap class this semester. I don't dance. I
Speaker 1: don't dance. Um that. And here's the thing I thought, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's probably a beginner class. No, there's no beginner class.
Speaker 1: It's with dance majors who have tapped since they were two,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, at least it's doing something uncomfortable. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it pushes me out there. Um, and it's an experience totally.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Are you doing any hobbies or wanting to
Speaker 1: pursue anything that you're like, oh, I want to into that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I tango dance. Tango Tango is amazing. Tango is
Speaker 1: so sexy, Like it's not salsice. You're not like moving
Speaker 1: all this, You're not moving around super fast. Maybe that
Speaker 1: should be my next dance I pick. It's like it's
Speaker 1: super old, like it's like there, it's like it's pretty
Speaker 1: old too. Yeah, but it's it's rad. I don't mean
Speaker 1: even as a practice, I just mean like as a community,
Speaker 1: like really, yeah, that's so much fun, but it's really great.
Speaker 1: It just make you feel good about yourself to the
Speaker 1: youngest one there totally. Um. So like tango, tennis, I
Speaker 1: play tennis, one ye surfing. I'm a good gardener yeah, um,
Speaker 1: like flowers, fruits and vegetables, all sorts of stuff. I
Speaker 1: think gardening is extraordinarily important for everyone, Like everyone should
Speaker 1: be required to grow something so calming, not even that
Speaker 1: it's just like, yes, it is so calming, and it
Speaker 1: is is a practice of delayed gratification. In a world
Speaker 1: in which you could have a new boyfriend every hour
Speaker 1: of the day, and a world in which you can
Speaker 1: order something online and reasonably expect that it be within hours,
Speaker 1: like you should have to wait for things. Waiting for
Speaker 1: things is important for human brains, and it is a
Speaker 1: good thing. And so having like waiting for your flower
Speaker 1: to bloom, waiting for your flower to grow is a
Speaker 1: spectacular practice. That's how I kind of feel with oil
Speaker 1: painting because it takes so long to dry yet like okay,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what I'm it's going to be,
Speaker 1: but we're doing it for love, doing it exactly. You know.
Speaker 1: It's like we're constantly rushing, and it's we're missing a
Speaker 1: lot of things when we rush. I think about how
Speaker 1: many sunsets and sunrises like there too, Like we miss
Speaker 1: a day that I'm just like I don't even see them.
Speaker 1: You're just there and they're so beautiful of a block
Speaker 1: from the water, and so sunset is always so spectacular,
Speaker 1: and it's like the days that I miss it, I
Speaker 1: better have a really good excuse if I was just
Speaker 1: in my house like looking like the self loathing on
Speaker 1: Twitter exactly. It's just like a horrific, absolutely ridiculous. Um.
Speaker 1: I try and go and see it every day that
Speaker 1: I'm home at that hour. So what's next for you?
Speaker 1: What's next for Culture House? What's keeping you fulfilled? What's
Speaker 1: in the works that's making you excited about? You know?
Speaker 1: To your point around and it really means so much
Speaker 1: for to hear it means so much to me to
Speaker 1: hear that your experience at Culture House has been what
Speaker 1: we built the company for. I mean, if it doesn't
Speaker 1: feel like making art with your friends, why are we
Speaker 1: doing it? Um, have been so much. Oh I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, you know. It's it's like, if
Speaker 1: I want to be stressed out and and make life
Speaker 1: or death decisions at work, I'd be a surgeon or
Speaker 1: I'd go back to the White House. I'm not. I'm
Speaker 1: making television and film and it should feel like it,
Speaker 1: right like we do do lay Hill on my podcast,
Speaker 1: and he told me something that it's really helped. He
Speaker 1: goes at the end of the day, we're just playing
Speaker 1: pretend it can be a series, says it is. It
Speaker 1: can be as deep. At the end of the day,
Speaker 1: we're just playing pretend. I'm like, you know what, I know,
Speaker 1: that's so true totally, and losing sight of that is
Speaker 1: so WOWD. So when I see people like tie themselves
Speaker 1: and nods, I'm sort of just like, you should have
Speaker 1: to go work in an e er for a couple
Speaker 1: of days and then come back. I didn't appreciate where
Speaker 1: you are. I was like, this is getting a little
Speaker 1: out of control. Um but and again, and then this
Speaker 1: really actually goes back to what I was saying about
Speaker 1: how people can start their journey into activism, like, if
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel good in the smallest possible circle, if
Speaker 1: working at culture House or working with culture House doesn't
Speaker 1: feel good, I don't care what the show is. I
Speaker 1: don't care. I don't care if the show is good.
Speaker 1: It's about the environment that you create, exactly, and if
Speaker 1: it didn't feel good, to make it like the ends
Speaker 1: does not justify the means for me in basically anything
Speaker 1: like it would take a lot to convince me of
Speaker 1: of a situation where the ends to justify the means,
Speaker 1: and it certainly won't. Just it's certainly un acceptable in
Speaker 1: making TV like there's just there's no um and so
Speaker 1: you know, I think we take a lot of care
Speaker 1: and we take a lot of pride and the fact
Speaker 1: that we've built the company on our terms and the
Speaker 1: way that we want, with the values that we have,
Speaker 1: and hopefully that shows up on screen. We also want
Speaker 1: to be really good at it. I mean, he wants
Speaker 1: to be like mediocre at their jobs. Like my name
Speaker 1: is going to be on it. No one watches me
Speaker 1: play tennis. So it's just it's already so good that
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's not even like a doubt in my mind.
Speaker 1: I just know it's just going to be. And so
Speaker 1: I think for me, I'm just culture House is really
Speaker 1: exciting because we're just talking about cool stuff that all
Speaker 1: has a pulse, that all has a purpose, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's really interesting. One of the criteria for what
Speaker 1: projects we take on or what projects we decide to
Speaker 1: put forward, it's like, do I want to talk about
Speaker 1: this for three years? Is this interesting enough to really
Speaker 1: want to talk about it for three years? And is
Speaker 1: the team going to be people I want to work
Speaker 1: with for two years or for three years and talk
Speaker 1: to almost every day for that long time. I think
Speaker 1: something I've really learned is how much development is like
Speaker 1: a baby and you really have to nurture it and
Speaker 1: really have to flush it out so much. I feel
Speaker 1: like I've just gotten so much from it. I'm so
Speaker 1: glad to have worked for be a part of it
Speaker 1: any way, because I do think you guys are making
Speaker 1: some incredible stuff that can actually really affect the trajectory
Speaker 1: of the way we view our society. Thanks man, that's
Speaker 1: so nice. Of course, we have to take one more
Speaker 1: quick break, but when we come back, I'm going to
Speaker 1: talk about where you get your confidence from, both personally
Speaker 1: and professionally and much more. We'll be right back and
Speaker 1: we're back what advice do for confidence? Because I would
Speaker 1: love to exude your confidence that I've decided, Um, so
Speaker 1: you know, we pick up personality traits. I just that's
Speaker 1: something I want to listen. Put it on like a
Speaker 1: sweater girl, and live your life. I mean, but it
Speaker 1: actually is a choice. I actually really remember I grew
Speaker 1: up and it was sort of was very much outside
Speaker 1: of the booty norms of where I grew up. But
Speaker 1: I remember and like feeling very unattractive and feeling very ugly,
Speaker 1: and I remember when I was thirteen just like having
Speaker 1: one of those sort of divine inspiration moments where it's like,
Speaker 1: I'm actually not going to believe that about myself. I'm beautiful,
Speaker 1: and I'm that's what I'm going to believe. I don't
Speaker 1: know where that came from, but it just sort of
Speaker 1: had one of those moments, and I've tried. I've held on,
Speaker 1: like the death grip to that since I was a kid.
Speaker 1: But I think a few things. I think confidence is
Speaker 1: not only external of worst, but it's internal. And I
Speaker 1: think the internal pieces is the most important because you
Speaker 1: are going to look different. You are. There's and everyone
Speaker 1: has their own perception of what beauty is. Everyone's hot,
Speaker 1: Like literally I could find something hot about anyone absolutely
Speaker 1: if you look long enough, if you're open enough, you
Speaker 1: can absolutely I mean just smoke shows everywhere. Um and
Speaker 1: so so I think the more you appreciate other people's beauty,
Speaker 1: the more you'll appreciate your own. The more you take
Speaker 1: yourself out of any kind of competition with anyone, the
Speaker 1: more the happier you will be. UM. And then on
Speaker 1: the internal piece, I think for me it's also like
Speaker 1: the world is bullshit, Like no one has any idea
Speaker 1: what the funk is going on. I don't know what
Speaker 1: the hell is going on. You don't know, like, no
Speaker 1: one knows what that trying, you know, And so why
Speaker 1: not you? Like, you're the one? Why not you? You're here,
Speaker 1: That's what my dad says. He goes, it could be
Speaker 1: any one, why not you? Exactly, You're you're the one
Speaker 1: doing it. I actually got into a little bit of
Speaker 1: an argument with a friend. Um. He and I were
Speaker 1: walking around some art galleries and he couldn't really draw
Speaker 1: the distinction between something whether or not he liked something,
Speaker 1: whether or not a piece of art was his style,
Speaker 1: versus whether or not it should have been made. And
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I don't particularly aesthetically care for
Speaker 1: this painting, but you look at the technique, you look
Speaker 1: at how you made like the fact that they made it,
Speaker 1: you know, is extraordinary. And he's like, I mean I
Speaker 1: could have made that. I was like, but you didn't.
Speaker 1: You didn't. That is the thing that actually makes the difference.
Speaker 1: You can have the best ideas in the world. If
Speaker 1: you don't do it, it doesn't matter. People have people.
Speaker 1: It's I'll talk no action exactly until you do it.
Speaker 1: And so the more you just do ship. That's the
Speaker 1: way you learned. The more you build confidence and the
Speaker 1: more you're like, I'm the dude, it's me, Why not me? Right?
Speaker 1: Because you back your self. We all have to bet
Speaker 1: on ourselves at some point, and so I think we're
Speaker 1: really trained to bet on other people like oh, well
Speaker 1: she's so beautiful, or oh she's so tall, or oh
Speaker 1: she has this or that, but like, bet on yourself.
Speaker 1: You can't live anyone else's life. You can only live yours.
Speaker 1: And so what are you How are you going to
Speaker 1: invest in yourself? How are you going to do the thing?
Speaker 1: Get over being embarrassed? Life is deeply embarrassing. It's just
Speaker 1: a humil if you're doing it right, it is a
Speaker 1: humiliating experience, you know, But that's what it's, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just part of the deal. Like, get over it,
Speaker 1: Just keep moving, keep trying. Got to embrace it. Be
Speaker 1: comfortable with the uncomfortable. That's what I've been really trying
Speaker 1: to embrace this cemeter. And I think that is a practice.
Speaker 1: And I think the more you practice that, the more
Speaker 1: confident you get. And I think I am absolutely willing
Speaker 1: to be the best. I'm also absolutely willing to be
Speaker 1: the worst. I am willing to humiliate myself. I'm willing
Speaker 1: to start over. I'm willing to be everything in between.
Speaker 1: And I think that willingness is what you pick up
Speaker 1: on when you've when you sense confidence in me, I'll
Speaker 1: be okay, I'll figured out because even if you fall,
Speaker 1: you're going to get back up and exactly like, it'll
Speaker 1: be fine. It's just it's the ingraining part is what
Speaker 1: I need to work on. Yeah, but I have a
Speaker 1: head start on you. I don't know how old. How
Speaker 1: old are oh girl, Yeah, I've got sixty. I've got
Speaker 1: like the last human being on you all teenager? Yeah,
Speaker 1: sixteen years on you. You know, is there are there
Speaker 1: any other future people you'd like to work with that
Speaker 1: you want to manifest out into existence? No, um, there are, certainly.
Speaker 1: I do my best not to project onto people I
Speaker 1: don't know, so my perception of what they are could
Speaker 1: be wildly inaccurate. So I could be like, oh, I
Speaker 1: want to manifest working with this person or that person,
Speaker 1: and then that person is garb right, and they're terrible
Speaker 1: to work experience right, But they could be terrible to
Speaker 1: work with, or they could be um fine but not spectacular.
Speaker 1: And then you're let down. So I think it's hard
Speaker 1: to and I think we do enough as a society
Speaker 1: of projecting onto people in UM that live and live
Speaker 1: in the public in a certain way, or that have
Speaker 1: public lives in a certain way, in a way that
Speaker 1: I think is actually kind of unhealthy, absolutely, yeah, deeply unhealthy.
Speaker 1: And so I try not to do that too much.
Speaker 1: The people who I'm supposed to be working with, I'll
Speaker 1: work with, you know, and we'll meet and it'll have
Speaker 1: purpose or won't or whatever. But yeah, I try not
Speaker 1: to um, try not to look at people and be like,
Speaker 1: oh and invest in them in that way because I
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't actually know them. Hey, at least
Speaker 1: you can vowed for Oprah. At least you can. That's
Speaker 1: a big one. Yeah. Yeah, no, I've done pretty well.
Speaker 1: Like what is happening right now? Who let me in
Speaker 1: this room? This makes absolutely no sense? But let's do it.
Speaker 1: Let's do it, you know, why not? Why not? It's
Speaker 1: so funny. My so, my older sister, the brilliant, genius
Speaker 1: creative artist. Um, she was the production designer for Hair
Speaker 1: Hair Tales, Oh my goodness, and it was her and
Speaker 1: she also is just like she's she's even five years
Speaker 1: older than me, so if you can imagine my confidence
Speaker 1: plus five years. So she we had this one particularly
Speaker 1: complicated and it was her first production design job, and
Speaker 1: she has one really complicated shoot, and she came up
Speaker 1: to me. It was like, listen, so we're at the
Speaker 1: end of the road of my confidence. I have no
Speaker 1: idea what I'm doing. We're gonna need some help in here.
Speaker 1: We are at the end of the road of my confidence.
Speaker 1: Carrying meads to the finish line, She's like, Nope, not
Speaker 1: gonna make it this time. Um, We're gonna need a ringer,
Speaker 1: gonna need some help, gonna need an actual expert, you
Speaker 1: know what. The fact that she was able to vocalize
Speaker 1: it be like it was exactly before. It's too late,
Speaker 1: that that matters. Timing is everything. It all worked out exactly,
Speaker 1: Sody cracked me up. I was just like, dude, the
Speaker 1: twigs are out here just making ship up left and right.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. I love how once you cursed, I then
Speaker 1: just went so aggressively and I didn't know if I
Speaker 1: could just um, but yeah, so you know, I don't
Speaker 1: know why I told that story other than that it's
Speaker 1: funny and my sister is amazing. I think it's super interesting.
Speaker 1: I'm also super interested in production design as of recent
Speaker 1: because it's it just builds the aesthetic. Like I learned
Speaker 1: a bunch of other ship in college. Like I didn't
Speaker 1: learn any of this stuff. I didn't go to film school.
Speaker 1: I didn't like take I don't think I took a single.
Speaker 1: What was your major? Um, I triple majored. I'm not
Speaker 1: coming to nerd in political science, history and communications, any minor. No,
Speaker 1: I don't think you need a minor. Yeah. I was
Speaker 1: gonna minor and communications, but then I ended up taking
Speaker 1: extra classes and so it became a major. Hey it works,
Speaker 1: you know, Um. But I actually have a very bad
Speaker 1: self discipline really Yeah. So when I went to college,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I only have to be here
Speaker 1: for like four hours a week. Um. And so I
Speaker 1: had terrible grades my first quarters. I was on o
Speaker 1: s U used to be on quarters. Absolutely terrible grades.
Speaker 1: And so then I went and talked to the guyn's
Speaker 1: counselor or whatever they're called in college and convinced them
Speaker 1: to let me like triple my course load so that
Speaker 1: I would be in class from nine am until three
Speaker 1: pm every Monday through Thursday, because I was like, if
Speaker 1: you let me step off campus, I am not coming back.
Speaker 1: The fact that you know that yourself. So she's just
Speaker 1: not here anymore to be seen stumbling home at two
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning like babies out. So I actually needed,
Speaker 1: like I need the structure, overwhelmed. I needed to be structured.
Speaker 1: Um to this day, I like still date people who
Speaker 1: are very uptight and structured and discipline because I just
Speaker 1: need it, Like I need structure because leave me alone,
Speaker 1: I'm just like what, No, I feel like I'll need
Speaker 1: a day an extrovert because I can't be pulling someone
Speaker 1: else out where ourselves out of it right right totally? Um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's like the one through line of all
Speaker 1: the people I've ever dated has been that they're like actual,
Speaker 1: you know, hardcore, like you get up at eight and
Speaker 1: then we do this because otherwise or is it more
Speaker 1: of like an intellectual thing? I mean my type would
Speaker 1: be I mean smart and funny, um, generous and kind.
Speaker 1: I cannot tolerate people who are not um. I have
Speaker 1: absolutely zero tolerance for people who are unkind um and
Speaker 1: even just courteous, right like people who don't say thank you,
Speaker 1: or open doors for people to hind them, or take
Speaker 1: up two seats on the bus, and she's like, what's
Speaker 1: the matter with you? You share? You share this world
Speaker 1: with human transportation? Guy? Yeah, um uh. And then I
Speaker 1: really am drawn to people who were very disciplined and
Speaker 1: very structured, and um that helps me. I love I
Speaker 1: love a routine, but I've never successfully kept one independently.
Speaker 1: I love the idea of one. I love the idea
Speaker 1: of one, but like who knows when she's waking up?
Speaker 1: Who knows what order I'm going to do anything? And
Speaker 1: like generally I get everything done, but like I brush
Speaker 1: my teeth at the three pm yesterday, you know what,
Speaker 1: at least you're getting it done exactly. And that's as
Speaker 1: long as you're doing is. And then I went to
Speaker 1: brush my teeth this morning and my toothbrush was downstairs
Speaker 1: at the kitchen stink, like just like childish. Like I'll
Speaker 1: walk into my house sometimes and just be like, who
Speaker 1: did this? And I live alone? So I did it. Well.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking the time. This was
Speaker 1: just made my day and I feel very fired. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much. You asked much spectacular questions and I
Speaker 1: love your podcast I'm really honored that you even asked
Speaker 1: me to recording. I'm honored here on this season, season four.
Speaker 1: If it's got it, you've got to deliver. So good
Speaker 1: for you. I appreciate you so much, so happy for you.