1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: Hey guys, and welcome back to this week's episode of 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: the lest Bireau Podcast. As always, I am your host, 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: Sammy Jay, and I hope your week is going well. 4 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: I am so glad that you are here because this 5 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: is probably one of my favorite episodes we've ever put 6 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: out because I got to chat with you one and 7 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: only former special assistant to President Obama and also served 8 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: as director of public Engagement for then Vice President Biden 9 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: carry Twig. She is now also the founder of one 10 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: of the most incredible production and company's Culture House, and 11 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: we talk about everything from politics to entertainment and everything 12 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: in between. I'm gonna let you, guys get right into 13 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: this episode, but I hope you love it as much 14 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: as I do. Harry, thank you so much for taking 15 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: the time to come on my podcast. I look up 16 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: to so much, and not just everything you've accomplished and created, 17 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: but also the types of stories you're telling and the impact. 18 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: It's just so amazing. Thank you. Thank you for having me. 19 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: I'm really excited. There's so many things I want to 20 00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: get into. I want to start with how you got 21 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: into polity. Because I grew up in New York, my 22 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: mom always listened to the news. So it was just 23 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: kind of in my brain. Was it just something that 24 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: you came about or was ingrained in your family? It 25 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: wasn't ingrained in my family. I have a very My 26 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: dad is steadfastly refused to become a citizen. Um he 27 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,199 Speaker 1: was born and raised in Barbados. And this whole notion 28 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: that when you become a citizen in the US, you 29 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: have to say that you forsake any other allegiance to 30 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 1: any other countries, Like I can't do that, um, so's 31 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: he's not an American citizen. He does follow politics, he's 32 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: aware of it. But I didn't grow up in a 33 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 1: political family. And then my mother's side of the family 34 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,759 Speaker 1: is like kind of very waspy, and we don't talk 35 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 1: about money or you know, politics. And so you landed 36 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: yourself in a very interesting place. I did. But it's 37 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: interesting because my parents are political, even if they're not 38 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: like politically active. And so my mom is a social worker. 39 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: My dad is a black immigrant. My mom was a 40 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: social worker too. I don't think I knew that it's 41 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: so helpful when you have anxiety attacks, really helpful. I mean, 42 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: my mom such a um. But what actually happened was 43 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: when I was about eleven or twelve. I asked my 44 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: mom what government is, and she told me it's old 45 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: white men sitting in a room deciding how free you are, 46 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: which is still the most saying an accurate definition I've 47 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: ever heard. And I remember we were just driving down 48 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: the street in the car, just so casually. Yeah, and 49 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: she was like yeah, she just rattled this off, and like, 50 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,839 Speaker 1: what are you saying. It's like life path changed now 51 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: in that moment, changed the trajectory of my life, because 52 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: at that point I would probably would have been in 53 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: like fifth, sixth grade, and everything you had been taught 54 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: up to that point was like, this is the freest 55 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 1: country in the world. It is the most equal country. 56 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: I have a dream, right, like all these things. And 57 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,119 Speaker 1: that just really brought home that the kind of contradiction 58 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 1: that I think so many people understand about America as 59 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: they age or as they go into the adult world, 60 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: they're like, oh, we're kind of full of it. Um. 61 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: But I kind of got introduced to that notion really early, 62 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: and and I decided I was going to be one 63 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: of those people in that room because no one, no 64 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: one's making decisions without me, um. And and that's what 65 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: I did. I feel like politics and being politics, it's 66 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: a whole other universe. And then you know, you go 67 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: into the White House, your special assistant for Obama, and 68 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: you want to just want to make sure I get 69 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: this right director of Public Engagement for under Biden. That's 70 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: a lot of work and I'm so curious, what is 71 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: what was like a day in your life? Then you know, 72 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: it was really fascinating because the White House is this 73 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: incredibly particular place, um and kind of peculiar place in 74 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: that it's this tiny campus, Like the White House is 75 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: actually very small, and you walk up and you see 76 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: the you know, you get off the bus or whatever. 77 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: I sometimes I drove. Sometimes I to the bus and 78 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: you see the iconic building and you walk up. There's 79 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: people protesting outside, or there's there's always action news, you know, 80 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: news cameras and correspond there's something happening around the White House. 81 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: And then you walk in and you have this hallowed experience. 82 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: You go through the gates and then you're still just 83 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: at your job and you're just sort of like if 84 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,839 Speaker 1: Debbie says, well I'm going to me today, like I'm 85 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: just I'm going to flip my desk, you know, but 86 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,239 Speaker 1: you you still have the like petty annoyances and daily 87 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: job and the White House so many of the you know, 88 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: two thousand people that work there are political appointees that 89 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: come in and serve at the pleasure of the President. 90 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: And we are all people who want to change society, 91 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: but also who were type A who love to be 92 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: the smartest person in the room, who are very mission driven, 93 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: who like think they're the best in the brightest. How 94 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: does that work when so many people are also brilliant 95 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: in one room, Like how do you get things done? 96 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: It's a great question. It's a it's a question worth asking, 97 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: you know, and I think it's you know, it can 98 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: be both the greatest thing in the world and it 99 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: can also be, you know, like many like many things 100 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 1: are best qualities are often sometimes our worst qualities. So 101 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 1: um so that existed, but you know, it was an 102 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: extraordinary privilege, and I think for me every time other 103 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: I got to bring people into the White House and 104 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: see it through their eyes. It was this incredibly kind 105 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: of transcendent and magical moment where people who just couldn't 106 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: believe the White House would ever be that way, could 107 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: ever be filled with you know, young vibrant, just kids 108 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: trying to figure it out on their best, all of 109 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: these things, and there were people were just so proud 110 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: of us, you know, and I think we were all 111 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: kind of tired and slowly crawling to an early grave. 112 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: But because you're it's just it's rigorous, right, You're just working. 113 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: How many hours do you work a day? Twelve to fourteen, 114 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: six seven days a week for years, and even when 115 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: you are not physically there, it's just alive in your consciousness. 116 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: How do you compartmentalize that? I'm sure you don't, you know, 117 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: like if I saw a BlackBerry today with like the 118 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: blinking red light, my I might start twitching just like response, Well, 119 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: you know what, it's so good that BlackBerry doesn't exist anymore. 120 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: You know, they discontinued, so you don't have to worry 121 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: about that ever again. Yeah, but um, yeah it was. 122 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: I mean it was extraordinary. But also it's also a job, 123 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: Yeah it is. You know, what was the difference in 124 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: the managerial styles between Obama and Biden? Was there a 125 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: difference in how they delegated work or how they communicated 126 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: with you? This is fascinating. You know, no one's ever 127 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: asked me this question. Before I feel like it's a 128 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: go to know people. I mean, people ask me about 129 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: their personalities, but I want to know about how they're 130 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: supposed to run the country. I want to know how 131 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: they run in office. I will say this is so, 132 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: this is one of those things. I still have a 133 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: little bit of Stockholm syndrome from the White House of 134 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: like can I talk about it outside of it? But 135 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: like no one cares what you know. But I understand 136 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: that when it's so involved in it's so much of 137 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: your life, for so, how do you compartmentalize to kind 138 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: of separated and you get so fiercely loyal to them 139 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: that you just don't want to say anything that might 140 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: be taken the wrong way or come off other people too. 141 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: And I think we need to realize that exactly. So, 142 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: my my, I would say that President Obama was far 143 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: more of a true executive personality wise, whereas President Biden. 144 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: Don't forget President Biden searched for like forty years in 145 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: the Senate. Like it's such a legist, he's so such 146 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: a decision by committee. He's such a legislator. He wants 147 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: everyone's involvement. When he's a collaborator, he is um and 148 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: he is much more kind of willing and interested in 149 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: kind of thirty people's opinion and synthesizing from that place 150 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: and trying to build consensus and find something that works 151 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: for as many people as possible, whereas President Obama was 152 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: absolutely in the interested in the opinions of experts and 153 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: science and his advisors and looking at a problem from 154 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: as many potential angles as he could. But I think 155 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: he was much more comfortable going alone when he when 156 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: he felt that was the right thing to do. And again, 157 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: these are like me projecting into your experience. Yeah, I 158 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: think I I have a hard time imagining there would 159 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: be many people who would disagree with me on that. 160 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: I feel like it's a very fair assessment just from 161 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: an outside perspective, because there was a lot of decisions 162 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: that Obama had to make that we're so so carried 163 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: so much weight, and if you have thirty people's opinions 164 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: and that, how do you make the decision? That's something 165 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 1: that I don't know how you would have to do. Yeah, Yeah, 166 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: but you know, I think we all have our own 167 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,719 Speaker 1: unique brain chemistry, and there's other there are we all 168 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: have our own unique path to getting to a point 169 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: where we're poised and ready to make a decision, and 170 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 1: for some people having a lot of opinions ACT really 171 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: makes it more difficult. And for some people having more, 172 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: the more opinions they hear, the more they've got checked 173 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: their own position. So I don't know. I think it's 174 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 1: six and a half dozen. I don't think one way 175 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: is inherently better than the other. I think what's important 176 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: is that we, as individuals, whether you're the president or not, 177 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 1: understand your own decision making process and understand what works 178 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: best for you and then apply that to as many 179 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: situations as you can and how you learn best because 180 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: everyone learns so differently, and I feel like that goes 181 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: into the whole thing, a whole other topic with the 182 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: education system, where we're taught one way, when it's we 183 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: all learned so many different ways exactly like standardized tests 184 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: come up. Yeah, no, I mean, we're just we're doing 185 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: so many things wrong. It's amazing. I know, it's one 186 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: of those things. I don't know if you know this, 187 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: but like my life passion is to want to fix 188 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: the education system because I've grown up with learning disabilities 189 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: my entire life, and I am so grateful to having 190 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: been able to go to a special at school and 191 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: have tutors when that's just not the case for so 192 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: many people. And it's just a conversation that's unfortunately not 193 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: being had when it affects so one in five kids, 194 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: and that's just people that are diagnosed with learning differences. 195 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: I mean, that's amazing, and it is one of my 196 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: my poor friends. UM have to hear me rant about 197 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:15,959 Speaker 1: kind of a lot, and unfortunately repetitively, but all the time, 198 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 1: I'm just something happens that I am just incensed about 199 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: what I learned in school. Like I can write cursive 200 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: and I can read analog clocks, but I was thirty 201 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 1: before I could appropriately identify my feelings, let alone communicate them. 202 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: And I'm just like, what did you teach me? No? 203 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: Like I want to I want to know like how 204 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: to balance a check, how to do like basic Like yeah, 205 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: there's just just plot missing. Why did no one teach 206 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: me like how to make friends or like how to 207 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: be a good friend or how do you actually have 208 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: a relations like so many things about like being a 209 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: human being literally that are really deeply necessary. Um, but no, 210 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: it's sorry, I know how to do you know? I 211 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: know what the capital of the state. I've never been 212 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: to this, so that's cool. It's something that I think 213 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 1: just seeing how much we've how far we've come in 214 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: how far we haven't come in our country in the 215 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: past seven years, and kind of taking a moment to 216 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: reflect was being in the White House? Did that make 217 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: you believe more in democracy? Or did it make you 218 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: doubt it more? Because I feel like we've been through 219 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 1: a lot in the past couple of years and that's 220 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: put in put into question And I want to get 221 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 1: your thoughts on that. You ask a really good questions. Um, 222 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:32,199 Speaker 1: that's that's fascinating. I think that it made Wow, this 223 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: is a great question. I think that it, Um, it 224 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: made me recognize democracy as being the miracle that it 225 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: actually is. It's literally just people sitting in a room 226 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: trying their best, and it is a miracle to made 227 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: it this far. Yeah. Um, it is hard. It is 228 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: a human enterprise and human beings are gonna human one. 229 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: I don't know human beings. Humans are gonna human and 230 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: it is amazing we have endured as long as we 231 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 1: actually have. And so I think what it made me, uh, 232 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: was really compassionate for how hard it is to try 233 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: and do the right thing and come up with a solution. 234 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 1: No problem that gets to the White House is easily solvable, 235 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: if solvable at all, right, otherwise it would have been 236 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 1: solved way before it makes it to Washington. And the 237 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: sheer kind of scale of the world and how complex 238 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: that it is, and not even just this country. I mean, 239 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: this is the third most populous country in the world. 240 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,199 Speaker 1: We have one of the most diverse populations you can 241 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,719 Speaker 1: possibly imagine. A regional differences are class differences. I mean, 242 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: it's just governing. America is that kind of ungovernable and 243 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: the fact that it's been governed so consistently for the 244 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: duration of its um of its history is an extraordinary thing. 245 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,959 Speaker 1: Do you have hope for the future of our country? 246 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: I sort of have to have hope otherwise I can't 247 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: get out of bed. That's so fair, you know, Um 248 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: I don't. I am. I'm a big believer that America 249 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: is going to feel and be very different and should be. 250 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: It actually desperately needs to change. This country does not 251 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: work in really fundamental ways. It's just broken. Yeah, I 252 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: mean the economy does not. It just doesn't work. Um, 253 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: So our education system, all of these major markers that 254 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: affects so much of our future too, truly, and that 255 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: determine the health of a society are not working at 256 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: nearly the like there's a massive gap in our like 257 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: we're one thing that America really is probably the best 258 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: in the world at is perpetuating delusions. So and the 259 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: Internet it's just so great for that, you know, it 260 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: really helps. And we just love to be delusional about 261 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: how good we are at things, Like we're just really 262 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: not doing very well on so many key factors. And 263 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:13,599 Speaker 1: it's like where the aunt that says they're fine and 264 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: they're doing great, when you know they're just not doing great, 265 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: you know, and you're just like, but you're crying, but 266 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: like im but I'm looking at you know, you're saying 267 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: you're okay. Um. You know, like when you compare experiences 268 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: around education and the cost of education, when you when 269 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: you and the outcomes of that education, when you experience 270 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: like what it is to raise a family, what it 271 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: means to have a job, what it means to have benefits, 272 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: what it means to have a civic environment that is 273 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: responsive and adaptable to the changing needs of a population. 274 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,239 Speaker 1: When you look at the way that we are responding 275 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: to demographic change. Um, America doesn't like change. Well, the 276 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: human beings don't know human change. That's so fair myself, 277 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: I mean, despite the fact that we are all the 278 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: most inconsistent animals ever. Like I was a different person 279 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: yesterday and it's like you catch me, and the breeze 280 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: is coming from a different direction, and the moon is 281 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: like you know what I mean, like who is she today? Um? 282 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: And yet if anyone else changed, and God help us, 283 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: so you know, so a long way of saying, I 284 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: think I have to have hope. But I mean I 285 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: try and be as clear eyed as I possibly can. 286 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: And I think this this notion of America as the 287 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: city on the hill, as the kind of best freest 288 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: country in the world is um is a forest. It 289 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: could still be made true, but we would have to 290 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: make some pretty substantive and radical and quick decisions. We would. 291 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: And I've been feeling great helpless the past couple of years, 292 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: like many, and I think something that it's I've been 293 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: asking myself is what can I do? What can I 294 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: do from home? Because there's so many things to do, 295 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: it could be overwhelming to start, so for someone in 296 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: college or in high school that wants to start getting 297 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: involved and educating themselves and being an activist. Do you 298 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: have any advice on how does how to just take 299 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: two steps forward and get started on that process? I mean, 300 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: first and foremost, like, you can't fix something externally if 301 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: it's not fixed internally, right, So when you're that age, 302 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: focus on just being who you want to be. The 303 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: freer you are, the freer the person next to you is. 304 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: And so if you can find a way to do 305 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: that without doing it at the expense of someone else, 306 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: If you can just be a person who is community oriented, 307 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: who is thoughtful and engaged in the world around you, 308 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: then that's a phenomenal place to start. I think. Also 309 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: I talk, I often compare politics for most people um 310 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: to Nascar for me, which is NASCAR is like the 311 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: second biggest sport in the countree. I think it's like 312 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: a multibillion dollar enterprise. Thousands and thousands of people go 313 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: to these rallies or the races. You know, they're on 314 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: billboards or magazines, on TV's in the newspaper. It's everywhere, 315 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: and I can't tell you anything about it. Like I 316 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: get the vague idea like cars driver from what I 317 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: understand five hundred times, which how is no one getting dizzy? 318 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: I don't understand what's going on? But like, can't name 319 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: you a car, can't name you a driver. I know that, 320 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: like Indianapolis, like right, And so it's like despite it 321 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: being completely surrounded by and I grew up in Ohio, 322 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 1: so like I grew up in some NASCAR like world, 323 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: you know, and still managed to avoid having any idea 324 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: what it is. And so I think that's how most 325 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: people are about politics. Right. You're surrounded by it, and 326 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: yet we're able to kind of siphon it out of 327 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: our worldview. And this is all my my aversion to 328 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: nascars pre algorithms. So I can't even blame that, Like, 329 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: I don't know what I was, just ignoring it, right, 330 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: And you know, people are often unaware of the fact 331 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: that there's five hundred thousand elected officials in this country. 332 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: I did not know that they're everywhere. Right, really are 333 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: are governing the down to the block where you live. Right, 334 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: It's not just congress people, it's not just people on 335 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: the federal level. It's not just um your state legislators 336 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: and senators. It's it's your county commissioners and yours and 337 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: your d A and your sheriff and and so I 338 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: think the more you get involved in where and understand 339 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 1: where you actually are and what your place, even if 340 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: it's temporary, right, who look up? Who your representatives are? What? 341 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 1: How many hungry kids are there in your neighborhood? Because 342 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 1: I bet there's some right like what is the we've googled? 343 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: We can if we can google it, we can do it. 344 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 1: Like what are the rent laws? And your you know, 345 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: how are your schools if you're in high school? How 346 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: is your school funded? Is your school funded by property taxes? Like? Okay, 347 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: what disparity is that creating between your suburb and the 348 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 1: kids who grew up just happened to be born down 349 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: the street? Um? Is that fair? Is that okay with you? 350 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 1: If not, what does that mean? Right? And I think 351 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: figuring out who who you are and figuring out where 352 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: you are is the important first step. And you know 353 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 1: you're doing your podcast, I'm not telling stories. I I 354 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: used to work in politics and government. There's like activism 355 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 1: is multifaceted endeavor and people and it is best when 356 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 1: people show up as their authentic selves. And I know 357 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: that that's such an overused term. But but it's it's true, 358 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: and like do whatever works, bake cupcakes. You know, I 359 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 1: don't love a crowd. She's she's not an extrovert. Okay, 360 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: so I don't really go to protests Like that's not 361 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: part of my activism journey. That's not for me. That 362 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: find that very stressful. I sleep for two days afterwards, 363 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: and I'm like, good God, do that again. Um that said, 364 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: I will call and harass any elected official. Not harass, 365 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: but there's yeah, I'll raise money. I will volunteer on campaigns. 366 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: I've volunteered almost sorts of campaigns. I vote religiously. Um, 367 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,719 Speaker 1: I will you know, harangue my friends and my family 368 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: members to all of them. Like. So there's all sorts 369 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: of ways to be involved and to be part of 370 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,919 Speaker 1: the struggle. And it's just about finding what works for 371 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: you and what is sustainable for you. We have to 372 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: take one quick break, but when we come back, I 373 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,919 Speaker 1: want to talk about your pivot from politics to entertainment, 374 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: the impact you hope to make through storytelling, working with Oprah, 375 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: and so much more. We'll be right back and we're back. 376 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: I love what you said about we have to be 377 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 1: your best self. You have to find yourself first. When 378 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: you were finding yourself, what was what was that process? Like, 379 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: how did you go about that? Do you have any advice? 380 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: Because I'm on that journey now, and boy, it's a journey. 381 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: I you know, I'm still finding myself. I feel like 382 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: I'm gona have been several different people over the course 383 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: of my life, and I think there's always been a 384 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: thread of me that's been consistent in the same. But 385 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: it's you know, I talked to friends of mine from 386 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: twenty years ago and we tell stories. I'm just like, oh, man, 387 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: I forgot I like that, I forgot I was that 388 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 1: way or whatever. Um, which I think is a good thing. 389 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 1: We should all be trying on different personalities and different 390 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: trying different I got my nose piers. Look at that 391 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: go for you know. I had my nose piers too, 392 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: you know. And I think it's all it's about being 393 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: open um to the possibility of change and to the 394 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: fact that you don't have to ever be the same person. 395 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: It is okay to be a different person. It is 396 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 1: okay to see someone or meet someone and say, oh 397 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 1: I like that about you. I'm going to incorporate that 398 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: into my personality. We get into this idea that our 399 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 1: personalities are inherent and that they're fixed, and they're not. 400 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: They are dress and they are just a response to 401 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: some nonsense that happened when we were kids. Like my 402 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: older sisters a visual artist. She's incredibly talented and has 403 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: always been so. Not only is she just artistically gifted, 404 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: but she had plus five years on me motor skill wise. 405 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: And I realized that I was competing with her for 406 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: like my little drawings and stuff in like second and 407 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: third grade, and she was always so much better, and 408 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: so I made me feel inadequate as a little kid. 409 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: And so I was like, oh, I'm not artistic, I'm 410 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: not creative. I'm not doing that. That's my sister's thing. 411 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: I'm going to go do something completely different because I 412 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: don't want to be compared to my sister and I 413 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: don't want to compete with her. I convinced myself at 414 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: like seven that I wasn't a creative like who And 415 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: then I'm still living that life when I'm twenty eight. Right, 416 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 1: I'm still living that life and thinking of not thinking 417 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,400 Speaker 1: of myself as a creative person because of seven year 418 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 1: old moment when I comply tie her shoes because someone 419 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 1: who can't tie her shoes, it's still running my life. 420 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,640 Speaker 1: That's that's what. That's ridiculous, um, And yet we all 421 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 1: do that. It's so new ways. And it took me 422 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: actually describing myself as not being a creative person in 423 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 1: front of my sister, and my sister calling me out 424 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: and be like, what are you talking about? Why don't 425 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 1: you think you're creative? But like my seven year old 426 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: self said it, what are you talking about? Just total nonsense? 427 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 1: So you know, I then got to take on this 428 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: other personality and this explore this other side of myself, 429 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: and I think that that evolution is really important. And 430 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 1: then I think one thing that we don't say enough, 431 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: and I certainly feel like I wasn't told enough, is 432 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: that pain has a lot of information in it, and 433 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: no generation of human beings ever has found a way 434 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: to live a pain free life, and no generation ever 435 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: will and if they do, it's like the end, right, 436 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,360 Speaker 1: because there's nothing then to evolve, And then you don't 437 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: appreciate the good if you don't have exactly, And pain 438 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 1: is terrible and it sucks and none of us should 439 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: wallow in it. But if you can just sit with 440 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: it and try not to avoid it and try to sit, 441 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: you know, and try and sit with it for as 442 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: long as you need to at least take the time 443 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: to ask the question, like what information is here? Anger 444 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: has a lot of information in it, And I know, 445 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: for me, I didn't let myself be angry for years 446 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: and years and years because it was not what I 447 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: was conditioned to do right, and I had really bad 448 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: temper when I was a kid. My parents were always 449 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 1: trying to moderate it because they're just explode and so 450 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: but the my way of doing that, instead of learning 451 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: how to feel and process my emotions, was to suppress them. 452 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: But anger has a lot of information. That's where you 453 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: find out what your boundaries are. And so, you know, 454 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: obviously avoid harming yourself or harming anyone else, or making impulsive, 455 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: rash decisions, but also try and sit in your feelings 456 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 1: enough to understand what information is there and why your 457 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: body is making you feel these things, so that you 458 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 1: can learn how to again be who you are or 459 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: figure out how you want to exist in the world 460 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:05,239 Speaker 1: at that particular time, and ask yourself those questions ongoing, Like, 461 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 1: you know, I have this idea that I'm going to 462 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 1: start a new career every ten years. That I could 463 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: see you doing that, that manifested girl. Um. And I 464 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 1: think part of that is because I'm someone who needs 465 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: external changes in order to ask myself internally. If I'm like, 466 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: we'll check up, how are we doing? And the more 467 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:32,360 Speaker 1: I change my external circumstances, the more primed I am 468 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: to explore those questions internally. And that's the process that 469 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 1: works for me. But I think it really starts with 470 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: being open to the idea that you're a lot more 471 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 1: malleable than you think, and your personality is a lot 472 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: more of a choice than than we think. That's so true. 473 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: I've been living my life in three months chunks over 474 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 1: the past because I've noticed how much I change in 475 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: three months, my interest change. I feel like I've evolved 476 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: more and grow and like, if that can happen in 477 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: three months, we're just gonna plan in three months, because 478 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: if we try a year, we're gonna be so different 479 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: from then. And it's worked out so well. I love this. 480 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: I know we're coming up our and three months, so 481 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: we get to refresh it again. We get to figure 482 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: out our new intentions, priorities, So I love it. That's great. 483 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 1: Something that I'm very, very very excited to chat with 484 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: you about. Is this pivot in your career that you've 485 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 1: had something I'm learning in school. They're kind of like, Okay, 486 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: we're going to teach you this. This is what you 487 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 1: have to do the rest of your life and then 488 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: get good at and that's it. But frankly, there are 489 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: so many things and I feel like I can I 490 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: feel sometimes trapped at school because I feel like, Okay, 491 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: this is the one thing I have to do, but 492 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: no life can change. And so concuruise and you did that. 493 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: You went from politics to storytelling and created this incredible 494 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: production company that I have been very fortunate to intern for. 495 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: And I love everything you guys are creating because it 496 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: it feels like it's bigger than ourselves. And so I 497 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: was wondering what that transition was like and what made 498 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 1: you switch to this field. Well, first of all, thank you, 499 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: and it's been such a pleasure to have you at 500 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: Culture House. So much fun. Yeah, um, if you can't 501 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: tell already, it's like, I'm very invested in this idea 502 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: that we can all change and we all should change. 503 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: That's and that's really good for us. I sort of 504 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: you know, I've wanted to work at the White House 505 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 1: since I was thirteen or fourteen, and then I get there. 506 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 1: I'm on my way out of the White House at thirty. Yea, 507 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 1: what do you do when your last two bosses are 508 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: the president? You know what I mean? Where do you 509 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: go from there? It's true, It's like it's like my 510 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: former boss like, my former bosses are the former president 511 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: United current president? Like, what do you do from here? No? 512 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: Just I'm ruined, Like I can't work. Can you imagine 513 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: anyone telling me what to do? Somebody married? It wasn't 514 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 1: going to go well anywhere, and that's why you start 515 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: your own company. It wasn't gonna go well anyway. Um My, 516 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: one of my former bosses from the White House told 517 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: me I'm the worst employee he's ever had because I 518 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: kept referring to us as being colleagues. He's like, we 519 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: are not colleagues. Do you work for me? But like 520 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 1: we worked together though, but do I It's not reversed 521 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 1: a little bit. Such a nightmare. Um but yeah, So 522 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: I left the White House at thirty and realized I 523 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: had no other hobbies or interests. What was that like? Oh? 524 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: Scary awful it was. I had a total meltdown. I 525 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: had a total breakdown at thirty. It was spectacular, truly 526 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 1: one of the best things that ever happened to me. 527 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 1: But like, oh God, wouldn't wish it, wouldn't wish, wish 528 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: it on an enemy, and yet would work wish it 529 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: on everyone. So I think the short answer is, I 530 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: don't know that's actually gonna be that short. But I 531 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: think two things were really happening for me at that 532 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,239 Speaker 1: moment in time. One was that I was exploring this 533 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: idea of myself as a creative person. Two was that 534 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: it was really clear that what we so much of 535 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: what we were trying to accomplish in the Obama years 536 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: were culturally ahead where the country was, and in order 537 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: to legislate or build policy around something, the idea for 538 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: it really has to exist first in the kind of 539 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: collective imagination of the country. Right, we saw what happened 540 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: with healthcare, whereas we didn't really have a framework, the 541 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: general population did not have a framework for what universal 542 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: health care could be, and so it was really easily 543 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: to then manipulate that into something that was like about 544 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: death panels and like all the other nonsense and Sarah 545 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: Palin and her cohort were kind of propagating at that time, 546 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: so useful, helpful to the American people, could God. But 547 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: now the people have had it for four years or 548 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: ten years, or however long it's been. I can't not 549 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: time isn't a thing anymore. I don't even worry about it. 550 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:47,959 Speaker 1: But now the people have had it, they are like 551 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: religiously defending it. Right. And so whereas or thirty five 552 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: percent of the country supported it prior to its enactment, 553 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: now six does. And we see the same thing when 554 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: it comes to things like marriage or quality. Right, But 555 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: marriage equality doesn't happen without will and grace, without Ellen's 556 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: de generous, without Rosie o'donald, without the sort of so 557 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: many cultural touchstones that helped introduce people and beloved kind 558 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: of figures into this world or into the popular consciousness 559 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: of the country. And so when I was leaving the 560 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: White House, it was really clear that that dynamic was 561 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: at play around a range of issues, whether it was 562 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: sustainability and climate change, whether it was race relations, whether 563 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: it was gender roles, gender norms, gender relations were still 564 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: very much operating in a country that believes in a 565 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: zero sum game. Right, that for black people to have 566 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: rights and dignity has to be taken from white people. 567 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: For women to have equality, opportunity, agency, authority has to 568 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: be taken from men. It's not like we can all 569 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: just coexist, which is which is such an absurd way 570 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: of thinking about it, Like as though freedom is a 571 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: bicycle that you can just take. I lost, I lost 572 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: the tire. I need one now, you know, Like these 573 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: are concepts so in the same around wealth, Right, those 574 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: were all things that were really clear. We're being affected 575 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: by the stories that we were telling in this country, 576 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: Like the inevitable, uh, the inevitable end result of John Wayne, 577 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: one man goes alone and he's doing it his way 578 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: and we're gonna love him for it. Anyway, Like the 579 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: inevitable result of that story that we have told over 580 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: and over and over and over again is Donald Trump. Yeah, 581 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: because he starts running for president, Everyone's like, oh, I 582 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: like that guy. But it's because we've been watching him 583 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: on TV. Not only just him on TV, but that 584 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: particular story he was telling feels familiar. Right, It's the 585 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: Top Gun and I watched the hell out of Top 586 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: Gun and like nearly wept a Maverick. I don't say 587 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: I love that this is a perfect movie. I was 588 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: obsessed with that, loved it, But it's the exact same thing, 589 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: like one Man on a Mission, right, because like the 590 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: inevitable end result of those stories is total dysfunction. Um. 591 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: And so we have to tell different stories if we 592 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: want different political outcomes. And I think I was starting 593 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: to realize that as I was leaving the White House. 594 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: And to me, it's not aid. Yeah, And and it's 595 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: not a coincidence to me that so many people from 596 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: the Obama era, including the Obama's have now gone into storytelling, 597 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: because I think we're all sort of making that sort 598 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: of understanding that the country needs a cultural scaffold in 599 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: order to build meaningful kind of collective policy around um, 600 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: some of these other ways of seeing the world. Yeah, 601 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: So that's that's why I left. I was also really tired, 602 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: how Okay, So I just have to know, like, once 603 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: your job ended, how like what was your record of sleep? Like? 604 00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: Was there like a total like you like a full 605 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: to only four hours? Seriously? Has anyone have you read 606 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: this book by Tessa mass Fe My Year of Rest 607 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: and Relaxation. No, but I need to now well, it's 608 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: super morbid, fantastic. She well she's a fantastic fiction writer, 609 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: but she's just dark, dark and reverse. But anyway, so 610 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: this girl basically just like medicates herself and stays in 611 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: bed for a year. So that was me, but without 612 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: the drugs. I mentally did it years. I mean from 613 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: for the first eight months, I was probably asleep as 614 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: much as I was awake, Like I probably slept twelve 615 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: up for yeah, for a solid half year. Um, and 616 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: I didn't really work. I took um, which I encourage 617 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: everyone to do, and no one really seems to take 618 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: me up as much as they should um just to 619 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: not work. And so I just didn't work for like 620 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: eight months. What was that? That nice? It was amazing. 621 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: I went to like everything people invited me to, and 622 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: it was one of those things was like, do not 623 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: invite me to your grandma's house and sis, because I 624 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: will show up. I'm looking at plane tickets right now. 625 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: I love Grandma's I love sicily like let's roll. It's 626 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,439 Speaker 1: like my life motto right now. Funk it? Why not exactly? Yeah? Um, 627 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: so I thought, yeah, I had to funk it? Why 628 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: not here? And but a sleepy one I was asleep 629 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:24,280 Speaker 1: for a very fort that's okay, yeah, And then moved 630 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: up to New York, ended up meeting my business partners, 631 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: who the women who then became my business partners, um, 632 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: and we start a culture house, and now I'm in 633 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: l A and you know, still doing my best. I 634 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 1: want to talk about hairtails for a second, because I 635 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: think the messaging of the show is so important, and 636 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: I think the casting and the way it's filmed, the 637 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 1: aesthetic of it is just so on point and just 638 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: so perfect. And I just have to know what was 639 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 1: it like working with Oprah? It's wild and what was 640 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: that like? You know, you've done, You've done the press, 641 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: You've done Oprah. What's next? Basically the um I mean 642 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 1: talk about people who are in their pocket, right, and 643 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: no one can see my hand gesture, right, there's a 644 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: handshure hand gesture that is illustrating what I'm saying. But 645 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: you know, and she'll say it. Ms. Winfrey will say, 646 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,760 Speaker 1: you know, she's living in her purpose, like she found 647 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: her like she found the zone, the portal through which 648 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: she makes all of her decisions and all of her 649 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: actions are in integrity with her purpose. And that's why 650 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: it all works. And it works so extraordinarily well, and 651 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: you feel that you feel in the same way that 652 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,240 Speaker 1: we all pick up on all sorts of things about 653 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: each other. Yeah, there's a real magnetism to her, and 654 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: there's a real sense of like, oh, she is in integrity, 655 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: Like she does what she says, she says what she means. 656 00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: She is a consistent and confidently consistent human being, ing 657 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: who even in sort of micro moments and micro movements, 658 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 1: is hyper present, like she's showing up beauti fully to 659 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: whatever is happening in that moment, which I think in 660 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: Tracy is the same way. I mean, Tracy is an 661 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: extraordinarily embodied and present person when she is in front 662 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: of you, she is in front of you and all 663 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: of hers there, and she's not thinking about what she 664 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: could be doing instead, or how does she look, or 665 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: how does she think the other person thinks she looks. 666 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: I mean, all we all have those things. But when 667 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:38,760 Speaker 1: she taps in, she becomes an extraordinarily powerful person. And 668 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:40,959 Speaker 1: not to say that she's not powerful all the time, 669 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,839 Speaker 1: but it's really impressive. Like people who have figured out 670 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 1: how to do that are extraordinary to be around. And 671 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: I think it is the thing that defines their greatness, right, 672 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: It's their ability to step into whatever it is, the 673 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:02,320 Speaker 1: energy or the life force or their own sort of potential, 674 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: and it just radiates off them. I just started her 675 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 1: book What I Know for Sure, so I'm excited to 676 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: get into it because I am like halfway through her book, Uh, 677 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,359 Speaker 1: what Happened to You with Dr Perry Um. So I 678 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: feel like I'm just infusing my brain with Oprah right now. 679 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,320 Speaker 1: So I feel like I'm in a great place. So totally. 680 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: I've read that. I've read What I Know for Sure. 681 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: It's extraordinary and it's like she talks about this concept 682 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,839 Speaker 1: a lot in her book, and you're sort of like 683 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: describes very clearly what it is she's doing, and it's like, 684 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: how girl, how can I just say the environment that 685 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 1: you've created for this production company has been so refreshing 686 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,720 Speaker 1: I even though it's just been online, I have felt 687 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: more inspired, more creative, and more like I want to 688 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 1: make an impact than I have in school in the 689 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: past year and a half. Oh, thank you so much. 690 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: I think it's so important that there's we're talking about 691 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: how much our culture effects society, because it truly does. 692 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,359 Speaker 1: From your girl Up series, like you're truly highlighting the good, 693 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: the bad, and the ugly, which is I think what 694 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: we need help people feel us alone, Like that's if 695 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 1: nothing else, just tell the truth straight up. Let's be real, 696 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:17,359 Speaker 1: you know, if you can give someone nothing else, give 697 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: them the truth, give them honesty. It's just it's so basic, 698 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: and yet it is so undervalued and enterprised in our 699 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:30,240 Speaker 1: community and in the world and in our society. Um. 700 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,880 Speaker 1: And it's just that you cannot be free without the truth. 701 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: Are you feeling creatively fulfilled right now? I am? I 702 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: think I UM, I think that I am taking a 703 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:49,279 Speaker 1: very um what's the word broad interpretation of creative creativity? 704 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: And I try and don't limit yourself, you know what 705 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: I mean? I agree, um, And so I am trying 706 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: to live a creative life. And I don't mean that 707 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 1: sort of in an art his stick practice sense, although 708 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: I do have a writing practice, and I obviously make 709 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: a film and TV. But it's also like I went 710 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: on and walk on the beach this morning. I go 711 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,959 Speaker 1: surfing a lot, I go on hikes. I try. And 712 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: I was walking down the street and saw I was 713 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: watching the sunset last night, and like a man came 714 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,880 Speaker 1: by and gave me a big thumbs up. You know, 715 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: I saw this wild looking man in the captain's hat. 716 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: That made me just chuckle. Like all these wonderful things 717 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:30,320 Speaker 1: that happen if you're open to them, not even just synchronicities, 718 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:35,799 Speaker 1: but just humans are hilarious. They're so funny, and so 719 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 1: much good stuff is happening on your block right now. 720 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: You know, whatever happened to the art of people watching? Honestly, 721 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: it's just I will go on campus and I will 722 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:47,800 Speaker 1: just or sometimes if even if I'm at a party, 723 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: I'll just sit just to watch what I'm like. It's 724 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:55,400 Speaker 1: just so interesting seeing other humans interact together. Um or 725 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: like I like to camp. I'm a big camper, and 726 00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,919 Speaker 1: so see, I want to go camping. I've never been 727 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,760 Speaker 1: before ever, I've never from the city. You're such a city. 728 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 1: I'm such a city. It's so unfortunate. So now I'm like, 729 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: I need to go. I need to make up for everything. 730 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,520 Speaker 1: And I wasn't able to do a great spot. I mean, 731 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 1: California is such extraordinary camping. So I went on a 732 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,720 Speaker 1: big road trip over the summer and did it by myself. 733 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:19,880 Speaker 1: I had not I had not camped by myself before 734 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,240 Speaker 1: and so I camped by myself for a couple of weeks. 735 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 1: A couple of weeks by myself. What was that like? 736 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: It was awesome? It was so good. So I went 737 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: all around the Southwest in California and Arizona, Utah, Nevada, 738 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 1: and so inspired, I went to Paris by myself this summer. 739 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,359 Speaker 1: It was really like for me, the summer was really 740 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,120 Speaker 1: trying to see how much can we grow and how 741 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: much can we evolve? And so I've just been trying 742 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: to do more things by myself, whether it's taking myself 743 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 1: on dates or like doing anything like that. And so 744 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,879 Speaker 1: like like that's like going camping, Like that's like so 745 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,839 Speaker 1: impressive to me that you can do that. That's like 746 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,319 Speaker 1: a goal I want to hit one day. Well it 747 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 1: took me thirty six years, Like you're there, but yeah, 748 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,360 Speaker 1: but I'm here. Um. And it was one of the 749 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 1: most rewarding things I've ever done for myself. Um. And 750 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,839 Speaker 1: I'm a big believer in taking care of carry like 751 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 1: I'd pamper her as best. So how do what is 752 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:16,239 Speaker 1: self care? For you? Self care is entirely and fulsomely 753 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: and enthusiastically rejecting the idea of being busy. I am 754 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 1: not busy. I don't ever try to be busy. I 755 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: have no aspirations to be busy. I want to move 756 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:31,880 Speaker 1: as slowly as humanly possible. I mean, like ambling just 757 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:38,320 Speaker 1: taken my sweet time. UM. I think it is knowing 758 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: what at that moment in time. My five needs for 759 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:44,920 Speaker 1: happiness always are. I'm always kind of checking in on 760 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,719 Speaker 1: that list. So I need to be in nature, I 761 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 1: need to have community, I need to write, UM, I 762 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:58,239 Speaker 1: need to be of service, and UM, I need love. Right, 763 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,440 Speaker 1: and so if I meeting each of those things, and 764 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,239 Speaker 1: those also have a bright a broad term, but if 765 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,799 Speaker 1: I'm meeting those things on each given day, I'm going 766 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,640 Speaker 1: to have a spectacular day, right if I like, those 767 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,719 Speaker 1: are the things that I am prioritizing. UM. Self care 768 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 1: is also for me about embracing mediocrity. Like there's there's 769 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,400 Speaker 1: really like three things I need to be good at. 770 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:23,640 Speaker 1: Need to be a good family member, I need to 771 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,400 Speaker 1: be a good friend, and I need to keep a 772 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,840 Speaker 1: roof over my head. And outside of those three, and 773 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,879 Speaker 1: I need to be good to myself. So four things 774 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 1: that I need to be really good at, I don't 775 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 1: have to be good at anything else. Really, and so 776 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,799 Speaker 1: I take all the pressure off myself to be good 777 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,759 Speaker 1: at anything else. I love making good film and TV. 778 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:45,240 Speaker 1: I love being a good writer. I love being good surfer. 779 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 1: I love being good at tennis. If I'm not good 780 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: at any of those things, it doesn't actually matter. When 781 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 1: I'm on my deathbed. I'm not gonna be like man, 782 00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:00,760 Speaker 1: you know that recreational game. I played doubles two thousand, 783 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 1: you know two care Um I'll be I'll die happy 784 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,080 Speaker 1: if I was good to my sister and good to 785 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,000 Speaker 1: my nephews, and good to my parents, and good to 786 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,239 Speaker 1: my friends, and good to my partners, and good to 787 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:17,120 Speaker 1: you know, um, the world and my community. And that's 788 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 1: enough for me. Um. And I lived the life that 789 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,640 Speaker 1: I really actually wanted to live. And you're doing it 790 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 1: for you, yeah, you know, um. And so so, embracing 791 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 1: mediocrity is a way that I take care of mine. 792 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,120 Speaker 1: Like I'm so bad at tennis, it's amazing. Oh. I 793 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,239 Speaker 1: joined a tap class this semester. I don't dance. I 794 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:40,400 Speaker 1: don't dance. Um that. And here's the thing I thought, like, Okay, 795 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,600 Speaker 1: it's probably a beginner class. No, there's no beginner class. 796 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 1: It's with dance majors who have tapped since they were two, 797 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,400 Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, at least it's doing something uncomfortable. Yeah, 798 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 1: it pushes me out there. Um, and it's an experience totally. 799 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,239 Speaker 1: That's amazing. Are you doing any hobbies or wanting to 800 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,879 Speaker 1: pursue anything that you're like, oh, I want to into that. Yeah, 801 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:05,840 Speaker 1: so I tango dance. Tango Tango is amazing. Tango is 802 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,320 Speaker 1: so sexy, Like it's not salsice. You're not like moving 803 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 1: all this, You're not moving around super fast. Maybe that 804 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,640 Speaker 1: should be my next dance I pick. It's like it's 805 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,200 Speaker 1: super old, like it's like there, it's like it's pretty 806 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,560 Speaker 1: old too. Yeah, but it's it's rad. I don't mean 807 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: even as a practice, I just mean like as a community, 808 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,319 Speaker 1: like really, yeah, that's so much fun, but it's really great. 809 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,840 Speaker 1: It just make you feel good about yourself to the 810 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:35,440 Speaker 1: youngest one there totally. Um. So like tango, tennis, I 811 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:45,040 Speaker 1: play tennis, one ye surfing. I'm a good gardener yeah, um, 812 00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 1: like flowers, fruits and vegetables, all sorts of stuff. I 813 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,960 Speaker 1: think gardening is extraordinarily important for everyone, Like everyone should 814 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,719 Speaker 1: be required to grow something so calming, not even that 815 00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 1: it's just like, yes, it is so calming, and it 816 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:04,960 Speaker 1: is is a practice of delayed gratification. In a world 817 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,919 Speaker 1: in which you could have a new boyfriend every hour 818 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,279 Speaker 1: of the day, and a world in which you can 819 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:15,240 Speaker 1: order something online and reasonably expect that it be within hours, 820 00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,480 Speaker 1: like you should have to wait for things. Waiting for 821 00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,759 Speaker 1: things is important for human brains, and it is a 822 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,440 Speaker 1: good thing. And so having like waiting for your flower 823 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,840 Speaker 1: to bloom, waiting for your flower to grow is a 824 00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,240 Speaker 1: spectacular practice. That's how I kind of feel with oil 825 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 1: painting because it takes so long to dry yet like okay, 826 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,120 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what I'm it's going to be, 827 00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:44,759 Speaker 1: but we're doing it for love, doing it exactly. You know. 828 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,200 Speaker 1: It's like we're constantly rushing, and it's we're missing a 829 00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,839 Speaker 1: lot of things when we rush. I think about how 830 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,399 Speaker 1: many sunsets and sunrises like there too, Like we miss 831 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,239 Speaker 1: a day that I'm just like I don't even see them. 832 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,439 Speaker 1: You're just there and they're so beautiful of a block 833 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:04,320 Speaker 1: from the water, and so sunset is always so spectacular, 834 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,840 Speaker 1: and it's like the days that I miss it, I 835 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:08,920 Speaker 1: better have a really good excuse if I was just 836 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:15,480 Speaker 1: in my house like looking like the self loathing on 837 00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 1: Twitter exactly. It's just like a horrific, absolutely ridiculous. Um. 838 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:22,600 Speaker 1: I try and go and see it every day that 839 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,160 Speaker 1: I'm home at that hour. So what's next for you? 840 00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,279 Speaker 1: What's next for Culture House? What's keeping you fulfilled? What's 841 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,000 Speaker 1: in the works that's making you excited about? You know? 842 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,879 Speaker 1: To your point around and it really means so much 843 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,480 Speaker 1: for to hear it means so much to me to 844 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,399 Speaker 1: hear that your experience at Culture House has been what 845 00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,080 Speaker 1: we built the company for. I mean, if it doesn't 846 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,799 Speaker 1: feel like making art with your friends, why are we 847 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:51,279 Speaker 1: doing it? Um, have been so much. Oh I love that. 848 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,200 Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, you know. It's it's like, if 849 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,000 Speaker 1: I want to be stressed out and and make life 850 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,000 Speaker 1: or death decisions at work, I'd be a surgeon or 851 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,640 Speaker 1: I'd go back to the White House. I'm not. I'm 852 00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,120 Speaker 1: making television and film and it should feel like it, 853 00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,240 Speaker 1: right like we do do lay Hill on my podcast, 854 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,160 Speaker 1: and he told me something that it's really helped. He 855 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,160 Speaker 1: goes at the end of the day, we're just playing 856 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,719 Speaker 1: pretend it can be a series, says it is. It 857 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:16,399 Speaker 1: can be as deep. At the end of the day, 858 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:18,799 Speaker 1: we're just playing pretend. I'm like, you know what, I know, 859 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,480 Speaker 1: that's so true totally, and losing sight of that is 860 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:24,719 Speaker 1: so WOWD. So when I see people like tie themselves 861 00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:29,040 Speaker 1: and nods, I'm sort of just like, you should have 862 00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:30,640 Speaker 1: to go work in an e er for a couple 863 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:34,040 Speaker 1: of days and then come back. I didn't appreciate where 864 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:35,839 Speaker 1: you are. I was like, this is getting a little 865 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 1: out of control. Um but and again, and then this 866 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:40,840 Speaker 1: really actually goes back to what I was saying about 867 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:45,399 Speaker 1: how people can start their journey into activism, like, if 868 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:50,759 Speaker 1: it doesn't feel good in the smallest possible circle, if 869 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,840 Speaker 1: working at culture House or working with culture House doesn't 870 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,520 Speaker 1: feel good, I don't care what the show is. I 871 00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:59,919 Speaker 1: don't care. I don't care if the show is good. 872 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,520 Speaker 1: It's about the environment that you create, exactly, and if 873 00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:04,600 Speaker 1: it didn't feel good, to make it like the ends 874 00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:08,440 Speaker 1: does not justify the means for me in basically anything 875 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,120 Speaker 1: like it would take a lot to convince me of 876 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,280 Speaker 1: of a situation where the ends to justify the means, 877 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:18,880 Speaker 1: and it certainly won't. Just it's certainly un acceptable in 878 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:23,800 Speaker 1: making TV like there's just there's no um and so 879 00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,000 Speaker 1: you know, I think we take a lot of care 880 00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:28,759 Speaker 1: and we take a lot of pride and the fact 881 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 1: that we've built the company on our terms and the 882 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:33,560 Speaker 1: way that we want, with the values that we have, 883 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,440 Speaker 1: and hopefully that shows up on screen. We also want 884 00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:38,759 Speaker 1: to be really good at it. I mean, he wants 885 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,239 Speaker 1: to be like mediocre at their jobs. Like my name 886 00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:42,799 Speaker 1: is going to be on it. No one watches me 887 00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,440 Speaker 1: play tennis. So it's just it's already so good that 888 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,040 Speaker 1: I'm like, that's not even like a doubt in my mind. 889 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,319 Speaker 1: I just know it's just going to be. And so 890 00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,480 Speaker 1: I think for me, I'm just culture House is really 891 00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,879 Speaker 1: exciting because we're just talking about cool stuff that all 892 00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,120 Speaker 1: has a pulse, that all has a purpose, you know, 893 00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:04,000 Speaker 1: and it's really interesting. One of the criteria for what 894 00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,359 Speaker 1: projects we take on or what projects we decide to 895 00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,600 Speaker 1: put forward, it's like, do I want to talk about 896 00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,759 Speaker 1: this for three years? Is this interesting enough to really 897 00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,560 Speaker 1: want to talk about it for three years? And is 898 00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:17,759 Speaker 1: the team going to be people I want to work 899 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,319 Speaker 1: with for two years or for three years and talk 900 00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,279 Speaker 1: to almost every day for that long time. I think 901 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,759 Speaker 1: something I've really learned is how much development is like 902 00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,120 Speaker 1: a baby and you really have to nurture it and 903 00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:30,600 Speaker 1: really have to flush it out so much. I feel 904 00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,359 Speaker 1: like I've just gotten so much from it. I'm so 905 00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,680 Speaker 1: glad to have worked for be a part of it 906 00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,120 Speaker 1: any way, because I do think you guys are making 907 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:42,000 Speaker 1: some incredible stuff that can actually really affect the trajectory 908 00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,759 Speaker 1: of the way we view our society. Thanks man, that's 909 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:49,040 Speaker 1: so nice. Of course, we have to take one more 910 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,040 Speaker 1: quick break, but when we come back, I'm going to 911 00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,880 Speaker 1: talk about where you get your confidence from, both personally 912 00:49:53,920 --> 00:50:00,040 Speaker 1: and professionally and much more. We'll be right back and 913 00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:07,640 Speaker 1: we're back what advice do for confidence? Because I would 914 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:13,120 Speaker 1: love to exude your confidence that I've decided, Um, so 915 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,600 Speaker 1: you know, we pick up personality traits. I just that's 916 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,600 Speaker 1: something I want to listen. Put it on like a 917 00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:21,960 Speaker 1: sweater girl, and live your life. I mean, but it 918 00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,919 Speaker 1: actually is a choice. I actually really remember I grew 919 00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,800 Speaker 1: up and it was sort of was very much outside 920 00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,200 Speaker 1: of the booty norms of where I grew up. But 921 00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:34,840 Speaker 1: I remember and like feeling very unattractive and feeling very ugly, 922 00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:37,840 Speaker 1: and I remember when I was thirteen just like having 923 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,560 Speaker 1: one of those sort of divine inspiration moments where it's like, 924 00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,040 Speaker 1: I'm actually not going to believe that about myself. I'm beautiful, 925 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,600 Speaker 1: and I'm that's what I'm going to believe. I don't 926 00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,239 Speaker 1: know where that came from, but it just sort of 927 00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,120 Speaker 1: had one of those moments, and I've tried. I've held on, 928 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,680 Speaker 1: like the death grip to that since I was a kid. 929 00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,799 Speaker 1: But I think a few things. I think confidence is 930 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,400 Speaker 1: not only external of worst, but it's internal. And I 931 00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,520 Speaker 1: think the internal pieces is the most important because you 932 00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:06,920 Speaker 1: are going to look different. You are. There's and everyone 933 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,240 Speaker 1: has their own perception of what beauty is. Everyone's hot, 934 00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:15,600 Speaker 1: Like literally I could find something hot about anyone absolutely 935 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,200 Speaker 1: if you look long enough, if you're open enough, you 936 00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:25,759 Speaker 1: can absolutely I mean just smoke shows everywhere. Um and 937 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,640 Speaker 1: so so I think the more you appreciate other people's beauty, 938 00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,680 Speaker 1: the more you'll appreciate your own. The more you take 939 00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:36,440 Speaker 1: yourself out of any kind of competition with anyone, the 940 00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,560 Speaker 1: more the happier you will be. UM. And then on 941 00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,799 Speaker 1: the internal piece, I think for me it's also like 942 00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,719 Speaker 1: the world is bullshit, Like no one has any idea 943 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:47,520 Speaker 1: what the funk is going on. I don't know what 944 00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,440 Speaker 1: the hell is going on. You don't know, like, no 945 00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:54,080 Speaker 1: one knows what that trying, you know, And so why 946 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,879 Speaker 1: not you? Like, you're the one? Why not you? You're here, 947 00:51:58,360 --> 00:51:59,840 Speaker 1: That's what my dad says. He goes, it could be 948 00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:03,000 Speaker 1: any one, why not you? Exactly, You're you're the one 949 00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:04,799 Speaker 1: doing it. I actually got into a little bit of 950 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,759 Speaker 1: an argument with a friend. Um. He and I were 951 00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:12,919 Speaker 1: walking around some art galleries and he couldn't really draw 952 00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:18,040 Speaker 1: the distinction between something whether or not he liked something, 953 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,360 Speaker 1: whether or not a piece of art was his style, 954 00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,719 Speaker 1: versus whether or not it should have been made. And 955 00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,920 Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I don't particularly aesthetically care for 956 00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,359 Speaker 1: this painting, but you look at the technique, you look 957 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,560 Speaker 1: at how you made like the fact that they made it, 958 00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,400 Speaker 1: you know, is extraordinary. And he's like, I mean I 959 00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:37,920 Speaker 1: could have made that. I was like, but you didn't. 960 00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:42,400 Speaker 1: You didn't. That is the thing that actually makes the difference. 961 00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:44,000 Speaker 1: You can have the best ideas in the world. If 962 00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:47,440 Speaker 1: you don't do it, it doesn't matter. People have people. 963 00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,480 Speaker 1: It's I'll talk no action exactly until you do it. 964 00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:52,719 Speaker 1: And so the more you just do ship. That's the 965 00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:55,440 Speaker 1: way you learned. The more you build confidence and the 966 00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:59,040 Speaker 1: more you're like, I'm the dude, it's me, Why not me? Right? 967 00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:01,319 Speaker 1: Because you back your self. We all have to bet 968 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,160 Speaker 1: on ourselves at some point, and so I think we're 969 00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,480 Speaker 1: really trained to bet on other people like oh, well 970 00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,560 Speaker 1: she's so beautiful, or oh she's so tall, or oh 971 00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:12,400 Speaker 1: she has this or that, but like, bet on yourself. 972 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,960 Speaker 1: You can't live anyone else's life. You can only live yours. 973 00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,400 Speaker 1: And so what are you How are you going to 974 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,279 Speaker 1: invest in yourself? How are you going to do the thing? 975 00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:24,080 Speaker 1: Get over being embarrassed? Life is deeply embarrassing. It's just 976 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:25,920 Speaker 1: a humil if you're doing it right, it is a 977 00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:31,239 Speaker 1: humiliating experience, you know, But that's what it's, you know, 978 00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:33,160 Speaker 1: it's just part of the deal. Like, get over it, 979 00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:36,000 Speaker 1: Just keep moving, keep trying. Got to embrace it. Be 980 00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,640 Speaker 1: comfortable with the uncomfortable. That's what I've been really trying 981 00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:42,600 Speaker 1: to embrace this cemeter. And I think that is a practice. 982 00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:47,520 Speaker 1: And I think the more you practice that, the more 983 00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:51,200 Speaker 1: confident you get. And I think I am absolutely willing 984 00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,840 Speaker 1: to be the best. I'm also absolutely willing to be 985 00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,280 Speaker 1: the worst. I am willing to humiliate myself. I'm willing 986 00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:01,280 Speaker 1: to start over. I'm willing to be everything in between. 987 00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,960 Speaker 1: And I think that willingness is what you pick up 988 00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:09,040 Speaker 1: on when you've when you sense confidence in me, I'll 989 00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,719 Speaker 1: be okay, I'll figured out because even if you fall, 990 00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:15,160 Speaker 1: you're going to get back up and exactly like, it'll 991 00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:18,279 Speaker 1: be fine. It's just it's the ingraining part is what 992 00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,160 Speaker 1: I need to work on. Yeah, but I have a 993 00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,640 Speaker 1: head start on you. I don't know how old. How 994 00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,719 Speaker 1: old are oh girl, Yeah, I've got sixty. I've got 995 00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:30,040 Speaker 1: like the last human being on you all teenager? Yeah, 996 00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:34,239 Speaker 1: sixteen years on you. You know, is there are there 997 00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,759 Speaker 1: any other future people you'd like to work with that 998 00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:41,840 Speaker 1: you want to manifest out into existence? No, um, there are, certainly. 999 00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:47,680 Speaker 1: I do my best not to project onto people I 1000 00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:52,680 Speaker 1: don't know, so my perception of what they are could 1001 00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:55,000 Speaker 1: be wildly inaccurate. So I could be like, oh, I 1002 00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,000 Speaker 1: want to manifest working with this person or that person, 1003 00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,920 Speaker 1: and then that person is garb right, and they're terrible 1004 00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:05,080 Speaker 1: to work experience right, But they could be terrible to 1005 00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:10,200 Speaker 1: work with, or they could be um fine but not spectacular. 1006 00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:12,320 Speaker 1: And then you're let down. So I think it's hard 1007 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:14,200 Speaker 1: to and I think we do enough as a society 1008 00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:20,080 Speaker 1: of projecting onto people in UM that live and live 1009 00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:22,600 Speaker 1: in the public in a certain way, or that have 1010 00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:24,480 Speaker 1: public lives in a certain way, in a way that 1011 00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:28,360 Speaker 1: I think is actually kind of unhealthy, absolutely, yeah, deeply unhealthy. 1012 00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:31,080 Speaker 1: And so I try not to do that too much. 1013 00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:34,359 Speaker 1: The people who I'm supposed to be working with, I'll 1014 00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:37,360 Speaker 1: work with, you know, and we'll meet and it'll have 1015 00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:41,920 Speaker 1: purpose or won't or whatever. But yeah, I try not 1016 00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,799 Speaker 1: to um, try not to look at people and be like, 1017 00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,239 Speaker 1: oh and invest in them in that way because I 1018 00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:50,200 Speaker 1: don't know, I don't actually know them. Hey, at least 1019 00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:52,839 Speaker 1: you can vowed for Oprah. At least you can. That's 1020 00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,319 Speaker 1: a big one. Yeah. Yeah, no, I've done pretty well. 1021 00:55:55,800 --> 00:56:00,160 Speaker 1: Like what is happening right now? Who let me in 1022 00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,200 Speaker 1: this room? This makes absolutely no sense? But let's do it. 1023 00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:06,719 Speaker 1: Let's do it, you know, why not? Why not? It's 1024 00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:10,480 Speaker 1: so funny. My so, my older sister, the brilliant, genius 1025 00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:14,560 Speaker 1: creative artist. Um, she was the production designer for Hair 1026 00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,200 Speaker 1: Hair Tales, Oh my goodness, and it was her and 1027 00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:19,960 Speaker 1: she also is just like she's she's even five years 1028 00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,320 Speaker 1: older than me, so if you can imagine my confidence 1029 00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:28,480 Speaker 1: plus five years. So she we had this one particularly 1030 00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:32,439 Speaker 1: complicated and it was her first production design job, and 1031 00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:34,920 Speaker 1: she has one really complicated shoot, and she came up 1032 00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,279 Speaker 1: to me. It was like, listen, so we're at the 1033 00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,320 Speaker 1: end of the road of my confidence. I have no 1034 00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:42,920 Speaker 1: idea what I'm doing. We're gonna need some help in here. 1035 00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,480 Speaker 1: We are at the end of the road of my confidence. 1036 00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,239 Speaker 1: Carrying meads to the finish line, She's like, Nope, not 1037 00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:53,080 Speaker 1: gonna make it this time. Um, We're gonna need a ringer, 1038 00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:57,000 Speaker 1: gonna need some help, gonna need an actual expert, you 1039 00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:59,120 Speaker 1: know what. The fact that she was able to vocalize 1040 00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:02,319 Speaker 1: it be like it was exactly before. It's too late, 1041 00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:09,680 Speaker 1: that that matters. Timing is everything. It all worked out exactly, 1042 00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:12,239 Speaker 1: Sody cracked me up. I was just like, dude, the 1043 00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:16,040 Speaker 1: twigs are out here just making ship up left and right. 1044 00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:19,480 Speaker 1: It's amazing. I love how once you cursed, I then 1045 00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,200 Speaker 1: just went so aggressively and I didn't know if I 1046 00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:29,240 Speaker 1: could just um, but yeah, so you know, I don't 1047 00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:31,040 Speaker 1: know why I told that story other than that it's 1048 00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:33,280 Speaker 1: funny and my sister is amazing. I think it's super interesting. 1049 00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,760 Speaker 1: I'm also super interested in production design as of recent 1050 00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:39,520 Speaker 1: because it's it just builds the aesthetic. Like I learned 1051 00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:41,120 Speaker 1: a bunch of other ship in college. Like I didn't 1052 00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:42,960 Speaker 1: learn any of this stuff. I didn't go to film school. 1053 00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:45,320 Speaker 1: I didn't like take I don't think I took a single. 1054 00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,840 Speaker 1: What was your major? Um, I triple majored. I'm not 1055 00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:58,040 Speaker 1: coming to nerd in political science, history and communications, any minor. No, 1056 00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:00,080 Speaker 1: I don't think you need a minor. Yeah. I was 1057 00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:03,280 Speaker 1: gonna minor and communications, but then I ended up taking 1058 00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:07,680 Speaker 1: extra classes and so it became a major. Hey it works, 1059 00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:10,880 Speaker 1: you know, Um. But I actually have a very bad 1060 00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:14,280 Speaker 1: self discipline really Yeah. So when I went to college, 1061 00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:15,520 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I only have to be here 1062 00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:21,720 Speaker 1: for like four hours a week. Um. And so I 1063 00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:25,200 Speaker 1: had terrible grades my first quarters. I was on o 1064 00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:29,400 Speaker 1: s U used to be on quarters. Absolutely terrible grades. 1065 00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:31,800 Speaker 1: And so then I went and talked to the guyn's 1066 00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:35,280 Speaker 1: counselor or whatever they're called in college and convinced them 1067 00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,680 Speaker 1: to let me like triple my course load so that 1068 00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:40,520 Speaker 1: I would be in class from nine am until three 1069 00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:44,280 Speaker 1: pm every Monday through Thursday, because I was like, if 1070 00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,720 Speaker 1: you let me step off campus, I am not coming back. 1071 00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:51,320 Speaker 1: The fact that you know that yourself. So she's just 1072 00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:55,640 Speaker 1: not here anymore to be seen stumbling home at two 1073 00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:59,880 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning like babies out. So I actually needed, 1074 00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:03,160 Speaker 1: like I need the structure, overwhelmed. I needed to be structured. 1075 00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:07,240 Speaker 1: Um to this day, I like still date people who 1076 00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:09,920 Speaker 1: are very uptight and structured and discipline because I just 1077 00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,360 Speaker 1: need it, Like I need structure because leave me alone, 1078 00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,120 Speaker 1: I'm just like what, No, I feel like I'll need 1079 00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:18,640 Speaker 1: a day an extrovert because I can't be pulling someone 1080 00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:24,320 Speaker 1: else out where ourselves out of it right right totally? Um. 1081 00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:26,840 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's like the one through line of all 1082 00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:29,960 Speaker 1: the people I've ever dated has been that they're like actual, 1083 00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,240 Speaker 1: you know, hardcore, like you get up at eight and 1084 00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:38,840 Speaker 1: then we do this because otherwise or is it more 1085 00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:41,959 Speaker 1: of like an intellectual thing? I mean my type would 1086 00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:47,960 Speaker 1: be I mean smart and funny, um, generous and kind. 1087 00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:52,680 Speaker 1: I cannot tolerate people who are not um. I have 1088 00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:56,280 Speaker 1: absolutely zero tolerance for people who are unkind um and 1089 00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:58,760 Speaker 1: even just courteous, right like people who don't say thank you, 1090 00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:00,680 Speaker 1: or open doors for people to hind them, or take 1091 01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:02,480 Speaker 1: up two seats on the bus, and she's like, what's 1092 01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:06,360 Speaker 1: the matter with you? You share? You share this world 1093 01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:12,720 Speaker 1: with human transportation? Guy? Yeah, um uh. And then I 1094 01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,400 Speaker 1: really am drawn to people who were very disciplined and 1095 01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:19,960 Speaker 1: very structured, and um that helps me. I love I 1096 01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:23,480 Speaker 1: love a routine, but I've never successfully kept one independently. 1097 01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:27,680 Speaker 1: I love the idea of one. I love the idea 1098 01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:30,160 Speaker 1: of one, but like who knows when she's waking up? 1099 01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:32,600 Speaker 1: Who knows what order I'm going to do anything? And 1100 01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,360 Speaker 1: like generally I get everything done, but like I brush 1101 01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:37,160 Speaker 1: my teeth at the three pm yesterday, you know what, 1102 01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:39,760 Speaker 1: at least you're getting it done exactly. And that's as 1103 01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,040 Speaker 1: long as you're doing is. And then I went to 1104 01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:44,680 Speaker 1: brush my teeth this morning and my toothbrush was downstairs 1105 01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:47,680 Speaker 1: at the kitchen stink, like just like childish. Like I'll 1106 01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:49,680 Speaker 1: walk into my house sometimes and just be like, who 1107 01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:54,880 Speaker 1: did this? And I live alone? So I did it. Well. 1108 01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:57,240 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking the time. This was 1109 01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:01,360 Speaker 1: just made my day and I feel very fired. Thank 1110 01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:04,840 Speaker 1: you so much. You asked much spectacular questions and I 1111 01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,360 Speaker 1: love your podcast I'm really honored that you even asked 1112 01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:11,320 Speaker 1: me to recording. I'm honored here on this season, season four. 1113 01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:14,000 Speaker 1: If it's got it, you've got to deliver. So good 1114 01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:17,720 Speaker 1: for you. I appreciate you so much, so happy for you.