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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney

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Speaker 2: Armstrong and body Move In. It is Tuesday, February tenth,

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Speaker 2: and yes, we have a stacked night of headlines. In fact,

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Speaker 2: even as we're coming on the air, we're sort of

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Speaker 2: scrapping the entire show because there is breaking news in

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Speaker 2: the search for Nancy Guthrie, NBC host Savannah Guthrie's mom.

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Speaker 2: There's now been some new video released and I'm afraid

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Speaker 2: to even say this out loud. Do we know this

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Speaker 2: for a fact? Is there, in fact somebody in custody?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, apparently law enforcement has detained a person for questioning

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Speaker 3: in connection to the abduction of eighty four year old

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Speaker 3: Nancy Guthrie in the South of Tucson, like moments ago.

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Speaker 3: We don't know who, but it's somebody in the South

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Speaker 3: of Tucson.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, wow. I mean this again has been a

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Speaker 2: story that we're in day ten, and at this point

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Speaker 2: earlier today there had been this now big release of

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Speaker 2: information regarding nest footage, and I know we'll break that

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Speaker 2: down that basically showed a potential perpetrator that may have

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Speaker 2: committed this crime. Maybe she is still alive and well,

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Speaker 2: and the search is on and they are begging for

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Speaker 2: anybody's help. And we also are going to have Joseph

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Speaker 2: Scott Morgan with us. Joseph Scott Morgan, the host of

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Speaker 2: the hit podcast body Bags, obviously here to break down

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Speaker 2: forensics for us. He's also been absolutely everywhere today, extraordinary coverage.

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Speaker 2: Everyone's turning to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, Yeah, all the things.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been it's been nutty. I was just telling

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Speaker 4: my wife. We've actually got friends in from the UK

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Speaker 4: that we've been entertaining and they're just kind of, as

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Speaker 4: the Brits say, gobsmacked right now with everything that's going

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Speaker 4: on because they've kind of been watching my pace. I'll

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Speaker 4: spend time with them, then I'll walk back on And

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Speaker 4: I was just telling Kimmy just a little while ago,

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Speaker 4: I don't ever remember in all of the cases that

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Speaker 4: I've covered where I have been contacted by the media

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Speaker 4: as much as I have on this one.

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Speaker 2: Wow it no, I mean America is.

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Speaker 4: I'm just saying, I don't you know, just to try

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Speaker 4: to schedule. I'm hopping from rock to rock, right and

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Speaker 4: you know, trying to remain right down the middle with

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Speaker 4: it and just examine the science. And I think that's

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Speaker 4: how you have to it's going to lead us to

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Speaker 4: the answers here.

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Speaker 2: So let's break down where we are even just as

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Speaker 2: of today, because there have been so many big developments

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Speaker 2: to that. You know, really we're we're really just hitting

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Speaker 2: the airwaves even as we're coming on air tonight. So Boddy,

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Speaker 2: do you want to just bring us up to speed?

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Speaker 3: Where do you start? Where the lad where's the latest?

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Speaker 3: Let's let's work our way back right, Okay, so smart,

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Speaker 3: Very very recently, law enforcement has detained a person for

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Speaker 3: questioning in connection with the abduction of you know, eighty

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Speaker 3: four year old Nancy Guthrie in Pima County, Arizona. This

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Speaker 3: individual was taken into custody south of Tucson. Authorities aren't

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Speaker 3: expecting to search a location tied to that person as

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Speaker 3: part of the investigation. Now that's not necessarily saying this person,

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Speaker 3: you know, has Nancy or whatnot. But at the same time,

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Speaker 3: it's also being reported that like an elite hostage team

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Speaker 3: from the FBI has arrived. So let's I mean, maybe

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Speaker 3: does this tell us that Nancy is alive?

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Speaker 2: This tells us that Nancy is alive, and we have

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Speaker 2: to be cheering for her in giving her all our

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Speaker 2: hearts and prayers.

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Speaker 5: Right, Yes, Nancy is alive. Right, I think we can

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Speaker 5: can and should all hope for that. Yeah, I've been

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Speaker 5: definitively right.

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Speaker 2: But this is a big sign. This is a big sign.

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Speaker 3: Right, It feels like a big sign, right, you think, Joseph,

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Speaker 3: you think this is a sign?

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Speaker 2: Do you think?

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Speaker 4: I find it really interesting the verbiage that was just

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Speaker 4: used a site associated with him. Does that imply that

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Speaker 4: there's a permanent structure there or is this just property

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Speaker 4: that this person? You know? Just because my lord, you

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Speaker 4: go to Tucson, you get outside of Tucson about ten miles,

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Speaker 4: you're in a wildern.

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Speaker 2: Same as Vegas.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, very middle of it, right, and it's

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Speaker 4: beautiful countryside. I love it down there. However, are there

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Speaker 4: structures there? And I think that probably a team going

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Speaker 4: in there there first? Any Listen, this is still a

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Speaker 4: missing person's case. This is not a crime scene right now.

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Speaker 4: The a number one priority is tried to track Nancy down.

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Speaker 4: You've got an elder lady that's infirmed, she's not she's

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Speaker 4: ambulatory but not really ambulatory. She's missing medications and she's

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Speaker 4: got a pacemaker. Time is of the essence, So why

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Speaker 4: why are.

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Speaker 2: They taking so long? That's just what's confusing though, because

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Speaker 2: it's a little not congruent with you know, air quotes

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Speaker 2: an abduction case of this level, specifically with you know, adults,

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Speaker 2: as I'm being told, and just through the research, right

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Speaker 2: like normally you would want fast cash. You don't want

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Speaker 2: this lingering. Certainly you don't want this lingering with somebody

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Speaker 2: who was air quotes elderly who has a medical condition

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Speaker 2: and requires you know, medication on a daily basis. So

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Speaker 2: how is this possible that this is either getting botched

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Speaker 2: so badly or is this a great sign that it's

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Speaker 2: getting botched and she's well and this might have a

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Speaker 2: happy ending.

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Speaker 4: I hope that that's the case. I certainly do, and

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Speaker 4: they have to Time is of the essence. So this

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Speaker 4: is what I would urge everyone to understand. There will

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Speaker 4: be drones in the air. There will be heroes in

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Speaker 4: the air. You're gonna have teams of dogs out there

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Speaker 4: and not you know. The swat thing is they're trying

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Speaker 4: to secure the area. But if they can't find her

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Speaker 4: right there or in where they first put feet on

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Speaker 4: the ground, they will have search teams that will search

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Speaker 4: that area pardon me, that have specialized training try to

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Speaker 4: locate her. But as the clock ticks, you're losing precious

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Speaker 4: time obviously, and so that's you know that again, this

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Speaker 4: is time critical. I think everybody understands. The upside is

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Speaker 4: is that they have targeted an area. We're not just

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Speaker 4: looking at southern Arizona now, you know. Now we're in

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Speaker 4: a specific area. So that is a good thing.

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Speaker 2: Which is in line with a lot of the reporting

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Speaker 2: that we've at least seen that since the ransom note

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Speaker 2: was sort of randomly sent to TMZ as well as

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Speaker 2: to local affiliates in and around the area, profilers were

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Speaker 2: assuming that whoever had her was likely someone from the area.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps does that still track?

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Speaker 4: I think so, yeah, Well, I think yeah it does.

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Speaker 4: With me. I've I've always felt as though since it

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Speaker 4: started out that this is somebody either with intimate circle

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Speaker 4: or somebody peripherally associated with it. When I mean intimate,

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Speaker 4: I'm talking about people that had the opportunity to observe

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Speaker 4: her property, people that had the opportunity. You know, this

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Speaker 4: is not somebody that just flies in from another state.

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Speaker 4: This is somebody. This is an observable event because listen,

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Speaker 4: people chin wags all the time, all right, and if

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Speaker 4: anybody even catches a whiff of the fact that, yeah,

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Speaker 4: well you know, Savannah Guthrie's mother lives right down the street,

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Speaker 4: Well you can say that to the wrong person, and

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Speaker 4: suddenly the wheels start to spend their brain. You don't

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Speaker 4: know who who they are. Then you've got workers that

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Speaker 4: are cleaning on the property. They're going to have a

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Speaker 4: significant insight. Just imagine, you know, when you have people

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Speaker 4: that come and solve security systems or work on your route.

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Speaker 4: They have a view of your life that you don't

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Speaker 4: even think about, you know, as the person is, you know,

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Speaker 4: getting the service, and that's kind of terrifying. And they

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Speaker 4: can see weak points at that point in time. So

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Speaker 4: you've got everybody that is at this point is a suspect.

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Speaker 4: I'm very interested to find out what this person's background is.

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Speaker 4: That they've hooked up at this point in Tom.

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Speaker 2: Right, and what led them to this person? Right?

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Speaker 3: So this comes after, you know, obviously, this deteined person

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Speaker 3: comes you know, after the FBI released this newly you know,

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Speaker 3: inaccessible surveillance footage of a masked person and armed. You know,

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Speaker 3: it looked like they were rolling a balla kava. Right,

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Speaker 3: go ahead, Court, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, I was raising my hand in horror.

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Speaker 5: I was raising my hands against the thought of seeing

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Speaker 5: that because it was so terrifying. Please continue, Yeah, can

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Speaker 5: we pause there though, since sorting you already paused anyway,

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Speaker 5: So quote on that outfit though, what is this person wearing?

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Speaker 2: And this is the scariest image we've ever seen in

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Speaker 2: our lives.

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Speaker 3: If you look, they're wearing a balla kava, right, But

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Speaker 3: it looks like it's a handmade Like if you look

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Speaker 3: at this thing, it looks like it's knitted.

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Speaker 5: To me, it knitted or almost it looked like chain

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Speaker 5: mail to me. Did it look like chain mail?

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Speaker 3: Do you think like that looked like it was knitted

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Speaker 3: and the yarn like it didn't fit the person's head, right,

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Speaker 3: and it was stretched and it just looked like it

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Speaker 3: was handmade of some you know, in some way. But

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Speaker 3: also it looked also to me like they were it

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Speaker 3: didn't look like a pro.

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Speaker 2: First of all, the way there were that weapon, it

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Speaker 2: looked so bad. And the way they were wearing their weapon,

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Speaker 2: the way they were wearing a wepdiculous.

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Speaker 3: The way they were wearing their weapon in their front,

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Speaker 3: it was ridiculous. And why do you need a backpack

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Speaker 3: full of stuff to abduct an eighty four year old

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Speaker 3: ambulatory woman? And you don't you don't need all that.

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Speaker 3: This guy doesn't know what he's doing.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, I'm looking taking a look, guys at

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Speaker 4: the clothes.

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Speaker 2: Does he or doesn't he. It's been a couple ten

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Speaker 2: days he's had Nancy Guthries beloved body well and good

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Speaker 2: God willing, our thoughts and prayers are with her. You know,

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Speaker 2: the whole world is looking for her. This guy didn't

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Speaker 2: do such a bad job, even though it looks like he's,

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Speaker 2: you know, clunking around there with the pots in the plants,

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Speaker 2: doing a little bit of a terrible cover job.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So he he walks up to the door

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Speaker 3: and then he goes oh, and he goes back to

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Speaker 3: get bushes and flowers to cover up the stold Has

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Speaker 3: he been there before?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 3: What is he doing? He is like he sees the

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Speaker 3: camera and goes oh, and then goes back to the

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Speaker 3: bushes and gets flowers and goes, oh, I'm going to

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Speaker 3: cover up this camera to cover up my masked face.

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Speaker 2: It's true. Can I tell you where my brain would

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Speaker 2: I For some reason, I'm convinced, still for no good

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Speaker 2: reason other than my own, that whoever did this has

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Speaker 2: snuck into the garage for some reason. That's always just

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Speaker 2: stuck in my head. So I thought the images that

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Speaker 2: we were seeing, because in some cases there is a

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Speaker 2: backpack and then in another image there isn't a backpack.

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Speaker 2: I think that's I'm not totally on the timeline. Even so,

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Speaker 2: I thought it was perhaps when maybe after or there

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Speaker 2: was a like before leaving or something. Yeah, like that's

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Speaker 2: why he was all like turned around, it seemed. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. You wouldn't be fumbling around that with

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Speaker 2: a ski mask on on the sidewalk. It was just strange.

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Speaker 2: It didn't seem like.

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Speaker 4: It's this underprepared and is amateurist? Amateurist because you know

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Speaker 4: you mentioned the balla kava and it looks like a

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Speaker 4: standard sche mask to me. And you know, this thing

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Speaker 4: is easily identifiable. And in forensics, one of the things

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Speaker 4: we do with clothing is that there's a whole field

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Speaker 4: that deals with clothing and forensics, and they don't get

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Speaker 4: a lot of love and identifying clothing. If you look

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Speaker 4: at that image, did you notice that the eyes and

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Speaker 4: the mouth are separately embroidered with a different colored thread. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: that goes to manufacturing. You know, if you if you think, yeah,

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Speaker 4: you're right, If you think about just a black ski mask,

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Speaker 4: it's hard to identify that, Okay, but this is and

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Speaker 4: the jacket that he's wearing is a specific manufacturer, you

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Speaker 4: can t Yeah, it does. In the clothing, it looks

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Speaker 4: like he's got on light you know, made khaki or

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Speaker 4: kind of colored.

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Speaker 2: Pants, something that he and he's never going to wear again.

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Speaker 4: No, he's not. And what's what's fascinating about this is

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Speaker 4: that most people I think that would engage in this

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Speaker 4: kind of behavior would come completely blacked out. I mean

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Speaker 4: about it.

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Speaker 2: You know, you know I was expecting a man.

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Speaker 4: In Yeah, you're gonna you're gonna blend in, and then

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Speaker 4: that the fact that he did, in fact act surprised.

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Speaker 4: You know, why didn't he have black type in his

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Speaker 4: hand that he could just put over, I know, over

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Speaker 4: the camera, the nest camera. You know, this is like

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Speaker 4: a big so I don't know how much time was

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Speaker 4: spent actually quote the place to understand it. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: I think he got a big surprise there.

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Speaker 3: Just as and then it didn't look like there was

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Speaker 3: a forced entry at the at the door. Is there

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Speaker 3: another person that we don't see, maybe going through the

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Speaker 3: garage to Stef's point or the back somewhere.

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Speaker 2: Because maybe so there's just the speculation that I've heard.

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Speaker 2: I do not know the answer, Joseph, I'd be curious

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Speaker 2: what you think. Here's the rapid fire of it all.

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Speaker 2: This was somebody who has a very specific gait and

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Speaker 2: seems like they are amateur to your point, not professional,

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Speaker 2: not behaving in a quick and fast manner, despite the

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Speaker 2: fact that they have the wherewithal to cover themselves pretty thoroughly.

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Speaker 2: Even the gloves were pretty thorough et cetera. But we

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Speaker 2: don't have a timestamp, and we don't really know what

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Speaker 2: that timeline is right other than there's a forty minute

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Speaker 2: window ish that this said perpetrator was in the home,

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Speaker 2: and that suggested to some that perhaps they were making

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Speaker 2: Nancy try to find pin numbers or looking at safe

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Speaker 2: or trying to get big coin. Who knows what they

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Speaker 2: think Nancy has hidden away? What are harrowing moment If

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Speaker 2: that's the case, And that again, we talked about this

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Speaker 2: last night. If it were a professional, they would have

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Speaker 2: been in out bamboom. You know we've all seen that

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Speaker 2: version of this qure movie. What do you think?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? For me, I'm thinking about the movement within the residents,

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Speaker 4: and I've made comment on several shows. First off, before

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Speaker 4: I made this comments, I didn't know if the person

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Speaker 4: was clobbed or not. I've always felt throughout this thing

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Speaker 4: that there is a high probability because I've heard the

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Speaker 4: term bedroom, that maybe she was removed from her bedroom.

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Speaker 4: How did she gain access? Did they force them? Because

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Speaker 4: bedroom has been mentioned a couple of times. True, I'm

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Speaker 4: not saying there's no sexual connotation here. What I'm saying

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Speaker 4: is is that to go into that space, I was

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Speaker 4: really thinking that trace evidence, particularly molecular trace evidence in

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Speaker 4: the form of touch DNA, could possibly have been left

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Speaker 4: in there. And I just hope that they haven't lost

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Speaker 4: any evidence any fragile evidence over all.

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Speaker 5: This time absolutely well, listen, stick around. We are going

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Speaker 5: to be continuing with this Nancy Guthrie. There are more

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Speaker 5: things coming out by the moment, and Joseph Scott Morgan

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Speaker 5: is with us, and we have an update from Canada

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Speaker 5: True Crimes name.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime tonight and iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and of course body Move In. And we

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Speaker 2: have forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, host of the hit

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Speaker 2: podcast body Bags, and he's doing extraordinary work, has been

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Speaker 2: really frankly on every network nationally covering this insane, harrowing

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Speaker 2: case with Nancy Guthrie, Savannah Guthrie's mom who it looks

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Speaker 2: like they may have a suspect in custody, real time

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Speaker 2: breaking news. So we want to get through the forensics

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Speaker 2: as quickly as possible with you, Joseph, because there's so

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Speaker 2: much Where do we start? Keep the talkbacks coming, by

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Speaker 2: the way. In fact, let's go to one right now.

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Speaker 6: This is Juliette from South Carolina. I have another question

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Speaker 6: to ask that no one has asked. I've been watching

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Speaker 6: a lot of coverage, and I'm just curious why the

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Speaker 6: family has offered a substantial reward for information that brings

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Speaker 6: Nancy home. Either way, there's a fifty thousand dollars reward,

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Speaker 6: I feel like it should be much higher.

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Speaker 7: Thanks.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a question a lot of people ask,

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Speaker 3: and it's a valid question. But there's a reason, right,

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Speaker 3: There's a very very valid reason. And you know, there's

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Speaker 3: no law against it, there's no you know, steadfast rule

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Speaker 3: against it. But it's often discouraged by law enforcement because

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Speaker 3: it encourages people to call in a lot of fake

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Speaker 3: tips and it becomes overwhelming for the police departments to

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Speaker 3: kind of, you know, siphon through those tips because they

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Speaker 3: take them very seriously, you know, and everything needs to

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Speaker 3: be followed up on. And then you know, if the

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Speaker 3: family offers a substantial award, it can you know, increase

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Speaker 3: copycats to do the same thing, right, and it can

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Speaker 3: just really complicate the investigation.

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Speaker 2: So there is a good reason for that. What would

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Speaker 2: you say to that, Joseph.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I agree, FBI, this is their residentire. They study kidnappings.

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Speaker 4: They this is really where they dance, and I can

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Speaker 4: almost guarantee you that there are agents that are whispering

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Speaker 4: in their ears right now, telling them precisely what to do.

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Speaker 4: There's an entire there's an entire playbook that we work.

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Speaker 4: We not we I know that they Yeah, I have

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Speaker 4: no desire.

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Speaker 2: Well, this whole case in crowdsourced. You know, let's be honest,

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Speaker 2: this is one of those first cases, Joseph, where you're

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Speaker 2: really I don't say that even just to promote your

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Speaker 2: great work that you've been doing all day on so

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Speaker 2: many important shows, not even to tout that, really just

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Speaker 2: to say because you're that much of an expert. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: law enforcement and the Guthrie family has essentially been crowdsourcing

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Speaker 2: for help and for tips and really leaning into the

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Speaker 2: audience who has been you know, probably quite helpful. And

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Speaker 2: to your point, some people would never think that the

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Speaker 2: reason for their not being a big bribe. I was

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Speaker 2: even very surprised to learn this was because people are

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Speaker 2: calling with fake tips. Right by the way, shame on

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Speaker 2: anybody who does that. You cannot do that, and it's

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Speaker 2: not funny, it's not fair, and it really is really

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Speaker 2: take a life because you're wasting law enforcement's time.

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Speaker 5: That's right, And just to underline what you said about,

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Speaker 5: you know, sort of the crowdsourcing as the expression how

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Speaker 5: Savannah Guthrie specifically yesterday changed even the direction of her

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Speaker 5: plea from the person or person's potentially holding her mother

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Speaker 5: still to anyone who was out there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly now and that I'm sorry, Please, did you

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Speaker 2: want to continue?

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Speaker 5: There was one thing I had mentioned right before break

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Speaker 5: and before we dig in further to the forensics and

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Speaker 5: Nancy go through.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot. We just want to to let.

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Speaker 5: You know that right before we went on to air,

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Speaker 5: there was a tragedy in Canada and in this moment,

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Speaker 5: ten people are dead. It was a shooting that happened

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Speaker 5: in British Columbia. About twenty five other people are injured,

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Speaker 5: and one of the dead is the suspected shooter. And

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Speaker 5: this took place shooter in camps. Yeah, six people were

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Speaker 5: found dead inside of a high school, two more people

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Speaker 5: were found dead at a residence believed to be connected

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Speaker 5: to the incident, and another person died on the way

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Speaker 5: to the hospital.

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Speaker 2: So we just wanted to keep you abreast.

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Speaker 5: Will follow with more information, and obviously this is very

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Speaker 5: sad news this night on breathing this night, there's so

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Speaker 5: much our friends, sending our heart yeah, yeah, sending all

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Speaker 5: of our prayers everybody.

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Speaker 2: We need everybody's attention. It seems like, you know, hearts

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Speaker 2: needed across the world right now.

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Speaker 3: So TMZ right back to Nancy real quick. Z sources

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Speaker 3: are saying that they they're reporting bitcoin movement.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: We were just talking about, you know, a reward and

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Speaker 3: ransom and whatnot.

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Speaker 2: In Courtney.

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Speaker 3: You had mentioned how the tone had changed from the family.

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Speaker 3: You know, at first they were talking. It seemed like

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Speaker 3: they were talking to the people that maybe had their

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Speaker 3: mother and we're talking about paying right and then and

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Speaker 3: then Savannah, you know, the daughter of Nancy, releases his

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Speaker 3: video yesterday and it seemed like the tone had changed

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Speaker 3: and she was talking to the public.

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Speaker 7: Right.

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Speaker 3: Well, that made me think, well, maybe these ransoms are fake.

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Speaker 3: Right Well, TMZ is saying that they're you know, they've

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Speaker 3: been monitoring the wallet because they have it, because they

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Speaker 3: got sent to the ransom, one of the one of

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Speaker 3: the ransom now, which is wild in and of itself,

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Speaker 3: that you know, Harvey Levin is in the is in

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Speaker 3: the thick of this, He's in the center of the storm.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, we were we were told it was

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Speaker 3: six million dollars in bitcoin, right, so you know me, right,

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Speaker 3: of course I hear this diet there movement, and I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 3: So I went to the blockchain explorer and I looked for,

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Speaker 3: you know, transactions that had happened in the last you

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Speaker 3: know hour, and guess what, you guys, I found one.

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Speaker 2: I'm unsurprised by the way this was manifested from our

400
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Speaker 2: caller last night, who was basically wanted to confirm that

401
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 2: body was on it. I'm glad to see that you

402
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Speaker 2: were on it, So go ahead, tell us everything.

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't want to tell you everything because I

404
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 3: don't know that I don't know if this is related, okay,

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Speaker 3: but it is odd. So this wallet didn't have any

406
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Speaker 3: bitcoin in it, nothing, it was balance is zero, okay,

407
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Speaker 3: And all of a sudden today at about four forty five,

408
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Speaker 3: guess what it received eighty five bitcoin, which is about

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Speaker 3: five point nine million dollars. What one transaction? Boom, it's there.

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Speaker 3: And guess what The wallet that sent it also brand

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Speaker 3: new and only has won two transactions, buying the bitcoin

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Speaker 3: and sending it.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, wait, everybody's slow the roll on the bitcoin

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Speaker 2: chatter because I'm really, really dumb on the bitcoin front.

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Speaker 2: So spoon me through this a little bit. So you

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Speaker 2: got to talk real slow with me here. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: you got to come in real I want the big spot.

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Speaker 3: Okay, wallet actually wallet one, wallet number one, let's pretend

419
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Speaker 3: that is the family's wallet. Okay, okay, it purchased six

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Speaker 3: million dollars worth a bitcoin. Whoa, and about twenty minutes

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Speaker 3: later it sent it to an address no nut, wallet two.

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Speaker 3: Let's say, right, wallet two, And it sent all the bitcoin,

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Speaker 3: eighty five bitcoin to wallet two. And now it's sitting

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Speaker 3: there in wallet two. Okay, Wallet two has eighty five

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Speaker 3: bitcoin now six million bucks or so about five point

426
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Speaker 3: nine million, and no movement on it. It's never purchased anything,

427
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Speaker 3: it's never done any It's just sitting in there now

428
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Speaker 3: and I'm watching it. I'm watching this wallet, but I'm

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Speaker 3: assuming it's going to go to cold storage.

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Speaker 2: If this is the wall.

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Speaker 3: Now listen, please, if you're listening off there. I do

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Speaker 3: not think that I'm right, because I could be wrong.

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Speaker 3: You know, this could be.

434
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 2: But who's sending six million dollars to these two accounts

435
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 2: at the exact same time. That's sort of interesting. I

436
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 2: had read it just before we came on air that

437
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 2: there was this three hundred dollars a mess that they

438
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 2: were speculating was like a test not to but there

439
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 2: was no test that I'm confirmed, Joseph, you and I.

440
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 2: I don't know if I had only gotten that bitcoin

441
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 2: back in the day. The math is not great. I

442
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 2: would be sitting pretty right, would all night.

443
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 3: I'll email your stuff, the block chain, I'll emailt you,

444
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 3: but I'm not.

445
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 2: I don't I'm not going to post about it.

446
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna, you know whatever, because you know, listen,

447
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 3: this could encourage people to you know, be scamming and whatnot.

448
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 3: So I don't want to post and talk about the

449
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 3: actual wallet. But internally I'll send it to Joseph.

450
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 2: And one other thing just to bring up and we

451
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 2: can come back to this and park it for one moment.

452
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 2: But our little takeaway from it also that I would

453
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 2: like to come back to, is this bitcoin chain of command.

454
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 2: I do want to learn this at the bare minimum.

455
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 2: And this camera footage that is just showing up that's

456
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 2: been somehow residual footage that's being retrieved even though there

457
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 2: is no account I have. I'm not sure. I love

458
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 2: that or do I love that. I guess this is

459
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: the best case scenario for all eyes on us at

460
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 2: all times, with or without permission, But I don't know.

461
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 2: The footage is also an interesting factor here.

462
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 5: I mean, I gotta say I was surprised, knowing the

463
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 5: intense scrutiny on this case and the amount of agencies

464
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 5: and specialists, even if it is as our FBI director

465
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 5: Cash Ptella explained, in the background and buried under layers

466
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 5: and etc. I was still surprised is that it would

467
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 5: take this long to extricate.

468
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 3: I don't think it took that long. I think it

469
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 3: took that long to release it to the public.

470
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, they're just not going to show their cards.

471
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 4: Particularly three letters are involved ASBI. They never do that

472
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 4: many cases with them, and it is an inflow and

473
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 4: no outflow most of the time. Sorry, guys, that's the

474
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 4: reality of it. If they're working in concert with them,

475
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 4: they're very closed bauth. Even to fellow law enforcement and

476
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 4: investigative agencies. It is kind of a closed loop to

477
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 4: a certain degree. So when you give them information, they're

478
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 4: going to analyze it from the inside and then they

479
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 4: will choose what will be released. And that's that's the

480
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 4: nature of how they work, and they have to be

481
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 4: that way because they have a history of having to

482
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 4: investigate law enforcement agency. Okay, so that that's kind of

483
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 4: one of their underpinnings. You don't want to leak anything out.

484
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 4: I'm not saying there's anything Maulfeasan's going on here, but

485
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 4: that that's kind of set the tone with the way

486
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 4: they work because they want to be independent of everything else.

487
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 4: So the FBI has to be invited into a case

488
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 4: like this, and they were. And that goes to come

489
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 4: of the forensics here too, because you know, one of

490
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 4: the big concerns with this case, and this is kind

491
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 4: of what the chatter I've heard day, is that when

492
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 4: they first released that scene, do you remember they worked it,

493
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 4: they had the tape up and everyone.

494
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 2: Everybody was tramping in and out of that place too,

495
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: that taping crazy.

496
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 4: Well, the tape went back up, tape went back up.

497
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 2: Then it went back down, and then it was up again.

498
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 4: Yeah. So ye.

499
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 3: Breaking from the Sheriff of Pema County earlier today, Pema

500
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 3: County Sheriff's Department deputies did team a subject during a

501
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 3: traffic stop south of Tucson. The subject is currently being

502
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 3: questioned in connection to the Nancy Guthrie investigation. Additional information

503
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 3: will be released as it becomes available. So true, before

504
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 3: we went live, you were talking about this van or

505
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 3: something right it blew right there was that, Yeah, the

506
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 3: vehicle theybe they hit put a bolo out for this van.

507
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 2: Or what it was.

508
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 5: Unless the bolo and I did not see coverage of it.

509
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 2: This this vehicle.

510
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 5: Of interest, as I've read about, it was not released

511
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 5: by officials.

512
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: It was released by people in town.

513
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 5: But it was that officials had gone to a circle

514
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 5: k to look at surveillance because of a vehicle of interest,

515
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 5: and so there was a lot of a lot of

516
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 5: chatter about that. And it was a circle k that's

517
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 5: right on It's called Oracle Road, and they gave their

518
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 5: footage to law enforce. So this must seem maybe linked

519
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 5: to the case. Internally, they did a be on a

520
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 5: lookout right alone. So you guys are saying bolo, it's

521
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 5: very exciting. I feel like we're very on the inside

522
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 5: of the beehive right now as you guys are cracking

523
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 5: the case. It's like being on Ocean's eleven, you know,

524
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 5: It's like the fingers are moving Joseph is on it.

525
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 2: I feel like we're gonna we are. I feel like

526
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 2: I feel the heartbeat of this. I feel like things

527
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 2: are picking up. Maybe we're going to have a really

528
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 2: good ending here. So they must have I feel like

529
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 2: they must have known this. Even when President Trump had said, oh,

530
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: I think there's some you know, movement to he had

531
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 2: acknowledged that there was something coming. Would that have implied

532
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 2: maybe this was in the works at that point, because

533
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 2: this is some big developments.

534
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 3: It is some big developments. And you know, we knew

535
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 3: about the circle K. We talked about it a few

536
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 3: nights ago that deputies or what not have gone to

537
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 3: that circle k in question the employee to get surveillance footage.

538
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 3: And we had speculated that they must have some kind

539
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 3: of suspect vehicle. So internally they have a be on

540
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 3: the lookout for this kind of you know, uh, whatever

541
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 3: kind of car it is. I don't know why, I'm

542
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 3: assuming it's a van. But okay, did it say it was?

543
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 5: They did not all all they said, But you may

544
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 5: be thinking then, because neighbors of Nancy Guthrie reported that

545
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 5: there was a suspicious van in the days leading up

546
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 5: to her capture and they said it made them feel

547
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 5: uneasy at the time, so that maybe that's right what

548
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 5: you're saying.

549
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 3: So they're driving around Tucson, right, Oh, that looks like

550
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 3: the the you know through their leads program. Oh that's

551
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 3: the bolo. Let's pull them over and see what's going on.

552
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's reminiscent to me of the of the

553
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 4: DC Sniper. And of course it turned out not to

554
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 4: be a white van. It was a Chevy Caprice four door.

555
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 4: And so anytime I hear white van nowadays, I'm still

556
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 4: scarred from d C Sniper all those years ago, and

557
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 4: they had everybody looking for the thing and it was

558
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 4: not It was out the vehicle.

559
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 2: That's right.

560
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 4: One thing I found out back during that time. I

561
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 4: don't know that anyone can calculate the exact number of

562
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 4: white vans that there are in the world, and it

563
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 4: is at that number is astronomical. So yeah, I mean,

564
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 4: I'm glad they have that leading, but I'm very careful

565
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 4: now when it comes to white vans. I gotta tell.

566
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 2: You, if you want to join the conversation, please please

567
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 2: do eight eight eight three one crime or you can

568
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 2: always leave us a talk back and keep those opinion

569
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 2: talkbacks come in. We just want to make sure we're

570
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 2: hearing all sides to everything, specifically Nancy. Where is Nancy?

571
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 2: So the blood drops? Should we start there? Yeah?

572
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 4: Sure?

573
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,239
Speaker 2: What do they tell us? Joseph, what do you think?

574
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 4: Well, okay, if you take a look at those images

575
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 4: that have been floating around for some time now, and

576
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 4: they were quite striking, and they do, I think, kind

577
00:31:55,160 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 4: of tell us a story. There is one particular image

578
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 4: where you can see these kind of larger, they're large

579
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 4: blood drops to it that looks like straight gravitational drop.

580
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 4: And so what that means is if anyone at home

581
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 4: has ever cut your lip, had a bloody nose, and

582
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 4: you're standing over to sink or maybe just spontaneously in

583
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 4: the kitchen, you look down at the countertimes like, oh

584
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 4: my lord, my nose is bleeding, you'll get these big,

585
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 4: kind of bloody depositions and they're almost perfectly round.

586
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 2: Yep.

587
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 4: That's the key here, though, is to think about what

588
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 4: populates that space in between the larger droplets, and there's

589
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 4: these tiny little droplets. To me, first off, the first

590
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,719
Speaker 4: thing I thought about was Travis Alexander with Jodi Arias,

591
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 4: and this is why you go back and look at

592
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 4: those images on his again another Arizona case, by the way,

593
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 4: if you go back and look at his image, at

594
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 4: the images from that scene on his vanity in his bathroom,

595
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,479
Speaker 4: you can see what to refer to as kind of

596
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 4: they're not really high velocity, but there it's exporate blood,

597
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 4: which means you're almost like, oh, like coughing like that,

598
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 4: and it creates this kind of fine little mist. So

599
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 4: if you think about a bloody nose, blood dropping freely, okay,

600
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 4: and then in the middle of it, you've got these

601
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 4: tiny little droplets that could be an indication of not

602
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 4: asperating blood. Asperating means to take it in, but expiating

603
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 4: blood where you're you know, like kind of blowing it out.

604
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 4: So I was really specking. You know what can we

605
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 4: learn about the dynamics of the deposition based upon what

606
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 4: may have happened at that door. And it's really hard

607
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 4: to get a clear picture as to if there was

608
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 4: a trail inside of the house. Perhaps don't really know,

609
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 4: And there's a lot of stuff, speculative stuff floating around.

610
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 4: And then we have a trail allegedly leading away, you know,

611
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 4: back toward the driveway, allegedly, so I don't know.

612
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 3: Well, let me paint a scenario for you and you

613
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 3: can tell me if this is something that fits that. Okay, Yeah,

614
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 3: now we know that we assume from the timeline we

615
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 3: were given that the guy was in the house for

616
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 3: about forty minutes. Right, What if that's not what happened

617
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 3: at all? What if he you know, the video we

618
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 3: saw is him arriving and he's fiddling with stuff, and

619
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 3: he's covering the door. He's trying to get in, but

620
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 3: he doesn't because there it doesn't look like there's any

621
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 3: forced entry at the door, right. He goes around the house,

622
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 3: can't get in there either, and he spends about forty

623
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 3: minutes trying to figure out how to get in this house.

624
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 3: And he comes back to the front door, rings a

625
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 3: bell again, does all this stuff, and Nancy comes to

626
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 3: the door.

627
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 2: Yeah okay, and he gets her. There is that something

628
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 2: that could have happened?

629
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:42,280
Speaker 4: Yeah? Anything?

630
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 2: Very smart?

631
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, because if you well, let's just talk about the

632
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 4: dynamics of the of the blood. From what I'm seeing

633
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 4: in the media driven images, these are not what do

634
00:34:53,680 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 4: I think it could be consistent with somebody being popped

635
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 4: in the mouth just to get your attention, you know,

636
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 4: like this.

637
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 2: And mean if she opened the door and then he

638
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 2: popped her in the nose.

639
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe it's certainly a possibility. I think that you

640
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 4: have to look and when you take a look at

641
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 4: at that, when you see the high quality images that

642
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 4: the police at that point Tom took, and there will

643
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 4: be many, probably hundreds with scale and without scale. They're

644
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 4: going to blow these things when the scene finally makes

645
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 4: it to court for whatever reason, they're going to blow

646
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 4: these things up on a big screen. And you're really

647
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 4: in the blood blood pattern expert will will tell a

648
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 4: tale here. They will absolutely be able to tell you

649
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 4: what the origin of this was, what the dynamics were

650
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 4: surrounding this event, and they'll talk about the consistency of

651
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 4: what you're seeing. Now this is all speculative, but just

652
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 4: it really drew my eye very very quickly when I

653
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 4: saw that. And I try not to jump to conclusions. However,

654
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 4: when I see that, Uh, it's that really speaks to me.

655
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 4: It's not it's not like cast off blood. It's not

656
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 4: like high velocity deposition that you get with a gunshot

657
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,479
Speaker 4: wound or anything like that. It looked like something else

658
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 4: to me, and so I don't know. Tom will tell

659
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 4: because they're going to do studies of this and they're

660
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 4: going to analyze it very very carefully.

661
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 2: What kind of a low human being do you have

662
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 2: to do to be to knock a woman in the

663
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 2: face that is I mean four years old? If that

664
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 2: is true, I mean, amongst other things, I mean an abductor,

665
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 2: I guess is a larger issue. But I mean, we

666
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 2: are really.

667
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 5: Right scraping the bottom of the barrel of society to

668
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 5: do that.

669
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 4: As I finished, children, you know this happens every day.

670
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 4: It happens every day. You know, I'm not saying that

671
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 4: happened here. However, Uh, they're the most easily victimized, right,

672
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 4: the weakest want it okay, and so uh yeah.

673
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 2: So I'm sorry, stuff, please, I was just gonna ask something,

674
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 2: just in the spirit of productivity, in terms of what

675
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 2: can be taken. If this is anybody we know or

676
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 2: ourselves or someone you love. If you hear like a

677
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 2: knock at the front door, no matter who it is,

678
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 2: you do not answer it, right, you just immediate call

679
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 2: one one. We're just playing along displaying that year. If

680
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 2: in fact, that is a scenario that would track and

681
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 2: is accurate, just as a rule of thumb, we should

682
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 2: never go to the door because my instinct would be

683
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 2: to go to the door too. Oh not me, absolutely

684
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 2: not nine one one okay, yeah.

685
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 5: Absolutely, But instinct is to go board noise. I'm with you,

686
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 5: and it's two in the morning and you're startled.

687
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 2: I don't.

688
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 3: And she has that security gate too, there's like that

689
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 3: black it's like a black security door. She would have

690
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 3: had to open that two unless it wasn't locked and

691
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 3: the guy opened it, and you know, I don't know.

692
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,959
Speaker 4: Yeah. Rule of thumb here is you assume the word,

693
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 4: particularly when it comes to your personal space. I don't

694
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 4: assume anybody is looking out from me or mine, and

695
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 4: so yeah, you have to be very very careful.

696
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 3: It was being reported that they were doing some swabbing

697
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 3: for DNA of like some of the people that worked

698
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 3: on the house and people surrounding Nancy in her life.

699
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 3: Does that tell you that they might have DNA from.

700
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 4: The suspect, Well, it tells me that the potential harvest

701
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 4: DNA at the scene that is left behind exists. And

702
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 4: I would imagine, and again speculative on my part, but

703
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 4: I would imagine that they have, hopefully in a robust manner,

704
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 4: gone through that house and covered every every inch of

705
00:38:54,800 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 4: the space, particularly in anywhere where there's a potential point

706
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 4: of contact, whether it's any kind of surface, you know,

707
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 4: adjacent to the bed. I don't know if the individual,

708
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 4: if this is the individual that had something to do

709
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 4: with this, thinking it probably was that's in the camera.

710
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 4: Did they ever deglove at any point in time, did

711
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 4: they ever take a jacket off or take that damn

712
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 4: mask off their head? And just that alone. If you

713
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 4: find hair that has fallen away, any kind of skin sample,

714
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 4: and here's kind of how it works. Just imagine if

715
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 4: you will, and I've used this example before on True

716
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 4: Crime tonight, but imagine the investigative funnel we're pouring data

717
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 4: in the top of. It is very broad at the top,

718
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 4: and we're trying to narrow it down. So for all

719
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 4: of those workers, people of contact and family members take

720
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 4: swabs on everybody, and so you would expect people that

721
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 4: are like caretakers for their DNA to be everywhere, okay,

722
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 4: even partial DNA bathrooms, you know, side tables, you name it,

723
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 4: glasses in the kitchen, just countertops, that sort of thing. However,

724
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 4: when you get into sourcing, that's in there, and it

725
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 4: doesn't marry up with any of the people that you

726
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,919
Speaker 4: collected from. You've got a bingo at that point in time,

727
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 4: and you really have to zone in. Now. The person

728
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 4: that they have in custody right now, guess what they're

729
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 4: going to be doing A buckle mucussel swab there. They will.

730
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 4: That's going to happen, I can almost guarantee you, and

731
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 4: they're going to check that scene. They're going to do

732
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 4: a profile on that individual, and they're going to check

733
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 4: that scene see if it marries up with anybody up there.

734
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 4: Even Hey, look guys, we were talking about workers. I

735
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 4: know this sounds really I don't know, obsessive compulsive, but

736
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 4: even the surfaces up on that roof were pay has

737
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 4: been done, any of those potential areas up there, new roofing, anything,

738
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 4: those points of contact the people. You don't think about

739
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 4: what surfaces you touch. No one ever does. I do

740
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,799
Speaker 4: these experiments in my classes all the time. People don't

741
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 4: think about where they put their arms, their hands, and

742
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 4: you know, those sorts of things, and you'd be surprised

743
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 4: what you leave behind and if that can source that

744
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 4: DNA in those particular spots that's money right there, that's

745
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 4: absolute money.

746
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 5: We listen, if you are just joining us, this is

747
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,280
Speaker 5: Truecrime tonight. I'm Courtney here as always with Stephanie Leidecker

748
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 5: and Body Moven, and tonight we are joined by forensics

749
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 5: expert Joseph Scott Morgan, and we are all walking through

750
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 5: the information surrounding Nancy Guthrie's kidnapping in the moment, and

751
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 5: I was just reminded of the fact that the kidnappers

752
00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 5: had promised in a letter to TMZ to return Nancy

753
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 5: to Tucson within twelve hours of receiving that six million

754
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 5: dollar ransom. So if that's just an interesting thought, if

755
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 5: that stands true, we are now within nine hours and

756
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 5: some minutes.

757
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 2: I'm just so curious how that works. And Joseph, if

758
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 2: you have any experience with hostage, you know, retrieval, or

759
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 2: you know, ever working a scene where hostage has been returned,

760
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,359
Speaker 2: you know, outside of them falling from the sky, you

761
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 2: know they have to be driven in. This must be

762
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 2: very coordinated. It seems like an obvious quickest way to

763
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 2: you know, get yourself arrested is to hand over the hostage.

764
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 2: But I know these are coordinated things.

765
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 4: Now the singular hostage event that I worked that involved

766
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 4: the FBI. I've worked to other ones where there have

767
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 4: been desk, but this is singular hostage investigation that I worked.

768
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 4: Actually ended with FBI agent putting a single nine milimeters

769
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 4: round through a windshield and shooting kidnapper in the forehead

770
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 4: and the girl was found on the floorboard of the

771
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,479
Speaker 4: front of the car. He had kidnapped her I think

772
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 4: in Texas and brought her to Louisiana and my jurisdiction,

773
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 4: and she was alive, and they took him out on

774
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 4: the spot right there. They've been tracking him for a

775
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 4: long long time. But no, I mean it would that

776
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 4: when you from a technical standpoint, just to walk your

777
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 4: way through this, because this person knows that they're going

778
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 4: to be watched, it would almost be a matter of

779
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 4: them if they had any ounce of goodwill in their heart.

780
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 4: She would be abandoned somewhere and they would make a

781
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,439
Speaker 4: phone call say you can find her here, and they're

782
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 4: long since gone. That's really the only way I could

783
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 4: really see this.

784
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:00,800
Speaker 2: Can we talk about the silence of the Lambs thing? Yes, yes, please?

785
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 3: So there apparently the video that Savannah released yesterday and

786
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 3: talking to the public has the same verbiage from the

787
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 3: Silence of the Lamb scene.

788
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 2: Is that true?

789
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 4: It was the family when they were when they were

790
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 4: grouped together on the sofa, and so yeah, it had

791
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 4: echoes of the character of the senator in the Silence

792
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 4: of the Lambs. I think that there's you know, they

793
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 4: talk about the Uh, I'm going to get it wrong.

794
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 4: I'm not not horrible at movie quotes most of the time,

795
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,439
Speaker 4: unless it's The Big Lebowski. I can pretty much rattle

796
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 4: that off. But dude, due, but yet, So yeah, there

797
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 4: was verbage in there that it was eerie. I don't know.

798
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 4: To me, it was stuff, you know, it was pretty like.

799
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,240
Speaker 2: It was a scene out of Silence of the Lambs,

800
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 2: pretty close to verbatim, which I don't know what that indicates.

801
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: It seems as though that that couldn't be an accident, right.

802
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 4: Joseph, Well, I guess it could be. You know that

803
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 4: book was written, uh was based not written at Thomas.

804
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 4: Thomas is the guy's last name wrote it, But you

805
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 4: know it's based a lot on John Douglas's work Profiler

806
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 4: and of course FBI profiler. Now I don't know if

807
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 4: that language is standard, but you know the character Clarius's character,

808
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 4: you know, she or Jodie Foster's character lose to You know,

809
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 4: that's really smart. You know they're making her human at

810
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 4: that point in Tom. Now again that's Hollywood.

811
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 2: What the movie.

812
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 5: What they said in the movie is Catherine is very

813
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 5: gentle and kind.

814
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 2: Talk to her and you'll see.

815
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 5: And then what was said in the in the video

816
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 5: from Savannah Guthrie and her siblings, Nancy is full of

817
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 5: kindness and knowledge.

818
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 2: Talk to her and you'll see.

819
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 4: Wow.

820
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 2: So those the two I thought maybe it meant that

821
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 2: the person that they were assuming was the objector you know,

822
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 2: had a pension for silence of the lambs the movie.

823
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 2: That seems so verbatim silly.

824
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 3: Really, we'll stick around. We have a lot more to unpacked.

825
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 3: Keep it right here to kind time.

826
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,720
Speaker 2: Welcome back to true crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

827
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

828
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong, Body Move In and Joseph Scott Morgan, host

829
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,479
Speaker 2: of the hit podcast Body Bags. We are knee deep

830
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 2: in putting together the clues to hopefully find Nancy Guthrie

831
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 2: safe and well. As a suspect is brought into the city.

832
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 2: This is breaking news, real time. It's unfolding as we speak.

833
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 2: Literally as I'm talking to you, there is one, two, three, four,

834
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 2: five screens happening at the exact same time. Everybody is

835
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,280
Speaker 2: scouring for information to be bringing it to you live

836
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 2: because I think we could. I all agree. This has

837
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 2: just been a harrowing ten days for the Guthrie family,

838
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 2: and they're essentially asking for everyone's help. Joseph, we had

839
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 2: talked about it earlier. In my opinion, this is if

840
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 2: not the biggest, but if not, the only real abduction

841
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 2: case that I've ever worked on or covered in any

842
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,720
Speaker 2: way that really is begging for help like this now

843
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 2: America's most wanted. The TV show how effective was that

844
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 2: Amber alert? We know how effective that is, so I

845
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 2: don't know why I'm surprised. Partially because sometimes it can

846
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 2: be a real drag on law enforcement because the tip

847
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:46,399
Speaker 2: line gets clogged with cuckoos, and also a reminder never

848
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 2: to do that. But yeah, there's a couple of key

849
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 2: things to still get through this recently found nest information,

850
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:57,919
Speaker 2: which is, you know, how do we find that even

851
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 2: if she didn't have a subscription to talk about extraordinary

852
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 2: policing number one and two, body, you had a big

853
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 2: thought about this business card that was on her front door. Right.

854
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 2: So there's two things, right, the Nest camera stuff.

855
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,359
Speaker 3: Right, So she had a Nest camera and we were

856
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 3: told that, you know, she didn't have a subscription, she

857
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 3: wasn't paying that monthly fee, and so her videos, you know,

858
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 3: weren't stored in the cloud.

859
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 7: Right.

860
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 3: That they that law enforcement would be able to go

861
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 3: back in time and like pull things up. But it's

862
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 3: my understanding, and maybe somebody out there can correct me

863
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,280
Speaker 3: if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding. Though even without

864
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 3: an account, it was stated that those Nest cameras will

865
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 3: hold like twenty four hours worth of information, right, so

866
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 3: they they if they had it at one point, the

867
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 3: Nest system would also be able to restore that information. Now,

868
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 3: I don't think it took them ten days to do that.

869
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 3: I think they've had this for like nice days, right,

870
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 3: I think they've had this for a long time. I

871
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 3: don't think this is new to law enforcement. This is

872
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 3: new to the public.

873
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:08,839
Speaker 2: I see.

874
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 3: So I believe that's what that's my basic understanding of it.

875
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 2: And as much as I think it's great that we

876
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 2: have this Thank goodness. This is such key information that

877
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 2: seems to be probably the missing piece that was needed

878
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 2: to maybe break open this case once and for all.

879
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 2: On the flip of that, I also see a lot

880
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 2: of chatter and have my own questions maybe for another

881
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 2: day about privacy, you know, just like that, that these

882
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 2: cameras are still rolling and this case is quite wonderful

883
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 2: but something to be aware of.

884
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 3: But I think a lot of people, at least that

885
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 3: I've seen posting about that, are under the assumption that

886
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 3: the FBI got this today and release.

887
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 2: It to the public.

888
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 3: And that's certainly not what's happened. I mean, certainly not

889
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,719
Speaker 3: what's happened. The FBI is not going to do that.

890
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 3: They've had this for quite some time, and they would

891
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,839
Speaker 3: have been able to get this because again, you know,

892
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 3: this is standard operating procedure that you know, Nest stores

893
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 3: these for about twenty four hours, done on account, and

894
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 3: then you know, overwrites the next one. Since there was

895
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 3: no activity, it still had it up there to be

896
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 3: able to give to the FBI, and they've been sitting

897
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 3: on it, looking internally and whatnot, and finally they're at

898
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:23,280
Speaker 3: their breaking point, going, we got to release this the public.

899
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,240
Speaker 3: Maybe they can recognize the person or something, but they've had.

900
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:26,879
Speaker 2: This for quite some time.

901
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 5: I have a little bit of information on that. Bring

902
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 5: Aolice Armstrong lay it on. So the Associated Press reached

903
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 5: out to Google, who didn't immediately respond, and they just said,

904
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,240
Speaker 5: you know, how did the footage of the mass person

905
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 5: get captured while the camera is apparently disconnected?

906
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 2: Again, there was no response.

907
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 5: Google also didn't clarify how the footage was extracted from

908
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 5: back end servers, even though law enforcement.

909
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 2: Said Guthrie did not have a subscription.

910
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 5: This I didn't quite realize that is that Google's privacy policy,

911
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 5: which a lot of us, probably most of us just

912
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:12,839
Speaker 5: sign way, I agree, Well, you agree, And in that

913
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:15,720
Speaker 5: privacy Google does make it clear that videos.

914
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: Can be captured when a device is offline.

915
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,959
Speaker 5: So what that means is that even if you don't

916
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 5: see a visual indicator that your camera sending video footage

917
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 5: to our servers.

918
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:28,839
Speaker 2: It may be doing so. Yeah, So so that would

919
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:33,399
Speaker 2: unpack that me too, huge news to me, me too,

920
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 2: even if I'm somewhere in my head should know that

921
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 2: I don't know that I'm actively pursuing that. You know,

922
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 2: we are on our laptops and our computers and our TVs.

923
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 2: Do we have to put little black tape over those cameras?

924
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,919
Speaker 2: I have a post it note over mine on all

925
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 2: of your belong every one of your including your phone.

926
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 2: Not my phone, no, but my video.

927
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 3: I have four computers right here and they all have tape.

928
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 3: We'll post it notes. Oh my goodness. There are a

929
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 3: million cameras on me right now. Mean yeah, yeah, like monitor,

930
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:13,359
Speaker 3: you know.

931
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 2: I have my laptop, a monitor, you know, camera, you know,

932
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 2: I have an iPad nearby. So I'm this is all

933
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 2: just getting recorded. So if I implode right now, you

934
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 2: guys will be able to sort it out and then

935
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: frame and then.

936
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 3: You know, okay, So listen on the third. On the

937
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 3: third of February, the crime scene was basically released right

938
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 3: after you know, they did all their pictures that Joseph

939
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 3: was talking about and whatnot, and was basically released. And

940
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:50,399
Speaker 3: Brian Enton from News Nation he was on our show,

941
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 3: remember well, he went to the porch and he filmed,

942
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 3: you know, and posted it to Twitter. And in this

943
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 3: video there's like a hard you know, it's kind of

944
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 3: above where the doorbell would go, and it's in like

945
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 3: the door jam, like not the doorjam itself, but like.

946
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 2: The stucco like kind of if you got somebody like

947
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 2: was saying, hey, window washing, or if you get those carchristsman,

948
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 2: you know a tree cutter. Right?

949
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 3: So the streak card and if you look at the card,

950
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 3: it's from the Tucson Adult Protective Services and it's interesting

951
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 3: to me. Let's if we could unpack that for just

952
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 3: a moment. K Wait, I need to see this card immediately.

953
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,479
Speaker 2: I texted the car scratching a part of my brain

954
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 2: right now and it feels so good. I know I'm

955
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 2: pulling it up.

956
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 3: Oh so okay, Now, would Adult Protective Services come visit

957
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,360
Speaker 3: the home on the third after the crime scene has

958
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 3: been released and stick a card that they stopped by

959
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:55,319
Speaker 3: on a missing person? I don't think so?

960
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 2: Would they do that?

961
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:00,839
Speaker 3: Or because Nancy did not enter the home ever through

962
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 3: the front door, apparently she always went through the garage,

963
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 3: hadn't been there for a couple of days, a week, whatever?

964
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 3: And if so, why was it allt Protective Services going

965
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 3: to her home?

966
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 4: Can I say one thing else?

967
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 2: Please?

968
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:19,800
Speaker 4: Why wasn't the damn card collected as evident?

969
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,399
Speaker 2: Well that's a good question too.

970
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 4: Well, I tell you.

971
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 3: The flowers weren't either. The bush wasn't. The bush was

972
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 3: sitting on that porch too.

973
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 4: I haven't heard about the card.

974
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 2: I send it to you. I'll text it to you

975
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 2: right now.

976
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 4: Please do. But I got to tell you, any any

977
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 4: card that's left behind like that, that surface can easily

978
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 4: easily be examined by a latent fingerprint person and you

979
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,839
Speaker 4: can lift anything off of that. Business cards are fantastic.

980
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 4: Paper is not generally ideal, however, business cards in particular,

981
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,760
Speaker 4: if you're going to choose a type of paper, business

982
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 4: cards would be right up there. Why Why Because if

983
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 4: you think about it's it's not quite as porous as

984
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 4: a computer paper, notebook paper, that sort of thing. So

985
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 4: you can actually there are certain uh, chemical applications that

986
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 4: we do that you would be able to lift a

987
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 4: print off of that.

988
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:24,359
Speaker 1: Uh.

989
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:28,360
Speaker 4: And again I don't want to keep you know, harping

990
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 4: on DNA, but that's as well here too. I mean,

991
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 4: you know, because I mean I carry you know, business cards,

992
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 4: you know, and they're you know, floating around with me

993
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,479
Speaker 4: in my wallet, you know, everywhere I go, and I'm

994
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 4: digging around for him trying to say, hey, do you

995
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 4: have a card. Yeah, actually I do, you know, and

996
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 4: to pull it out, fumble with them. Yeah, any kind

997
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 4: of just passive contact on these things. So it's left

998
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:56,280
Speaker 4: in the door, jam.

999
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 2: I just texted it to you, like question, because this

1000
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 2: goes a lot of different ways. I'm always so curious

1001
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 2: about crime scenes. Don't get me started on Idaho or

1002
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 2: any of the shows that we've worked on together, because

1003
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 2: one thing I've always been consistently unimpressed with was how

1004
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 2: crime scenes are often not considered sacred land and you know,

1005
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 2: really really separated from common people just walking in and I.

1006
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 3: Just left the They left the little you know, the bushes,

1007
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 3: the guy the perpetrator used to cover the camera that

1008
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 3: left on the porch too.

1009
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 2: They just left. Its shocking to me that Brian Enton

1010
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 2: was even able to get that close to the doing

1011
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 2: when this was technically still an active scene until there's

1012
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 2: a resolve in the case. Why is it not active?

1013
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 4: Still?

1014
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 2: Did you get my text?

1015
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 4: I got it? Yeah, you see it.

1016
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 2: It's striking. It's interesting me.

1017
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 4: Listen. I love Brian No, I love Brian God blessing.

1018
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,919
Speaker 4: I mean, he's doing you know, he's doing these great

1019
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 4: work that should be done. I'm glad that he documented

1020
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:07,320
Speaker 4: that in place. Uh, and it's speaks volumes to me,

1021
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 4: you know, particularly if this thing is tom stamped relative

1022
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 4: to you know, when they left, you know, why else

1023
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 4: would he be there if the tape was not down?

1024
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 4: And again, why wasn't it not taken? Why was it

1025
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 4: not collected?

1026
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 5: Unless it was indeed after the fact, after that first

1027
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 5: time when the crime scene came down, because Adult Protective

1028
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 5: Services obviously there was huge attention and someone might have come.

1029
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 2: You know, I'm a neighbor. This is what I do

1030
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 2: for a living.

1031
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 5: I want to do good and left a card because

1032
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 5: Adult Predictory Services does a good point after people are

1033
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 5: just you know, victimized.

1034
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 3: I feel like Adult Protective Services wouldn't be tramping through

1035
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 3: blood to stick a card on the door.

1036
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 2: If the crime tape is down, I don't know.

1037
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 4: I don't know why would somebody have access And it

1038
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 4: goes back to the to the basic supposition here, Why

1039
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 4: would they have access to it? Why would that tape

1040
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 4: be down such a short short period of time, But

1041
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 4: it was it was.

1042
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 2: They relinquished the house back to the Guffhries very very quickly.

1043
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 2: I remember thinking it was very fast.

1044
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 3: I remember some watching this video from Brian Nenton and

1045
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 3: I was shocked, yeh, shocked to get.

1046
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,959
Speaker 2: I was like, what is what?

1047
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 5: Well, listen if you are just joining us, this is

1048
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 5: true crime tonight. We have been shocked by many of

1049
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 5: the revelations coming out in the Nancy Guthrie case, as

1050
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 5: well as illuminated by a bunch of the facts that

1051
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 5: our forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan extraordinaire, has been able

1052
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 5: to shed light on. And now I believe it's time

1053
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 5: for Joseph to share a big piece of news.

1054
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 2: That's a surprise. Yeah, he's a big reveal for us.

1055
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 2: Can we guess?

1056
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 4: I kind of, I kind of do. It's kind of

1057
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 4: it's kind of cool stuff. That's kind of cool stuff.

1058
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 4: I have been drug kicking and screaming into the world

1059
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 4: of YouTube, and so I can tell you that every

1060
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 4: episode of body Bags, which were right on the cusp

1061
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 4: of five hundred episodes, now I think within the next

1062
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 4: three weeks will hit five hundred. They have all been

1063
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 4: I know four hundred and ninety have been uploaded to

1064
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 4: my new body Bags channel on YouTube. Yeah, body Bags

1065
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 4: with Joseph Scott Morgan and.

1066
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 3: So yeah, if you go, it's body Bags with Joseph

1067
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 3: Scott Morgan.

1068
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. If you could

1069
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 4: go there and subscribe, would be and.

1070
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 2: Tell yeah, we're so proud of you a long.

1071
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 4: And so I've got all these backlogged episodes I have people.

1072
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 4: You know, it's amazing. You know, people will say, well,

1073
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 4: what platform are you on? And we always go on

1074
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 4: and on about what platform you're on and all of that,

1075
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 4: but it's amazing to me how many people will say, hey,

1076
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 4: are you on YouTube?

1077
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 2: Everybody on YouTube?

1078
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 4: And of course I always have to give that blank stare.

1079
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 4: I know, no, I'm not, uh but lo and behold

1080
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 4: there I am and uh you know, big, big thank

1081
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 4: you to my team that has set that up for me.

1082
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 4: And it's just audio at this point in time and

1083
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 4: maybe video will come at some point in time. I'm hoping.

1084
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 2: My friend Yeah, yeah.

1085
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 4: I know, but I'm just I'm please just punch right

1086
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 4: now that this is that this is subscribe there you.

1087
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 2: Go, me too, me too. I wish we were too.

1088
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:54,960
Speaker 2: I wish because everybody asked me how could I listen?

1089
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 3: And I never I'm like, I don't know, you know,

1090
01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 3: you to figure it out.

1091
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, And we'll be posting, there'll be little clips it'll

1092
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 4: pop up and hoping that uh, you know a lot

1093
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 4: of stuff that I do on the air actually some

1094
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 4: of those reels and you know, appearance.

1095
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, all your appearances can be cool. Yeah, that's great.

1096
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 3: So everybody, it's on YouTube. It's at Joseph Scott Morgan

1097
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 3: and the name of his channel is body Bags with

1098
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 3: Joseph Scott Morgan. But it's a lot easier to find

1099
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 3: him by just typing at Joseph Scott Morgan.

1100
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 2: There you go, that was already playing.

1101
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 4: I'm so glad that you're here. You know, all this

1102
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 4: technical stuff that I don't know. I just pontificate. That's

1103
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 4: all I do.

1104
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 2: I'm going to share your channel on my community wall

1105
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 2: your name. Yeah. And by the way, Joseph, you have

1106
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 2: been you really have. You've been a guiding source in

1107
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 2: light all through this case. So you know, again, if

1108
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 2: you're hearing new information or as an unfolds, please jump

1109
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 2: on back this week or whatever, because we're all praying

1110
01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 2: for good news.

1111
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 4: We are, yeah, praying for Nancy Rodney.

1112
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 2: Oh definitely definitely keep it here. Crime Tonight. Welcome back

1113
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 2: to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime

1114
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 2: all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong.

1115
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 2: Body move in, and yes we have Taha, Sam and

1116
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 2: Adam also in the studio as well. So listen. We're

1117
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 2: gonna keep putting our hearts and prayers out for the

1118
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 2: Guthrie family and hoping for Nancy's immediate return safe and sound.

1119
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 2: And then we're gonna switch gears a little bit. Oh, Courtney,

1120
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:48,520
Speaker 2: you've been following a cult, a cult, and you didn't

1121
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 2: tell me.

1122
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 5: I know, I've been doing it a little bit around

1123
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 5: the edges. I wanted to study up and present.

1124
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 2: Oh she's a session with this little braves she's got.

1125
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 3: I didn't mute myself because I get too excited when

1126
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 3: the cult talk starts.

1127
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 2: Okay, we did. You just also just pop right up there,

1128
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 2: so ahay, court you have our full attention. Okay.

1129
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 5: So authorities allege that religious group it's called His Way

1130
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 5: Spirit Led Assemblies.

1131
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 2: So that's the name of it.

1132
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 5: Well, you will not hate the fact that it is

1133
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:29,720
Speaker 5: led by a self proclaimed prophetess, Shelley Cat Martin.

1134
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 2: So she goes by Cat and.

1135
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 5: This religious greed discouraged medical care.

1136
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 2: We do have church gig girls, I know.

1137
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 5: So this group, led by Cat Martin, it discouraged people

1138
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 5: from having medical care. It demanded total obedience. It was

1139
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 5: taking funds from people and controlling their lives. Okay, so

1140
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 5: everything I just said is kind of your typical cult. Well,

1141
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 5: this group His Way Spirit led Assemblies is now at

1142
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:08,919
Speaker 5: the center of not one, but two homicide cases.

1143
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 2: Two dissidicles.

1144
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 4: Wow.

1145
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 5: Yes, so one deals with this wicket sad. It's a

1146
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 5: twenty ten death of a four year old boy who

1147
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 5: was denied medical treatment, as well as there's a twenty

1148
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 5: twenty three disappearance and presume murder of a former member

1149
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:33,160
Speaker 5: and he's a former member who left the church and

1150
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 5: began a competing business.

1151
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1152
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 5: So this case, this case is back in the spotlight

1153
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 5: just now because another former member named Kelly Bird recently

1154
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 5: gave really explosive testimony at a preliminary hearing, so a

1155
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:56,680
Speaker 5: judge can determine, you know, whether there's enough evidence. So

1156
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 5: there we are. We're ready for a little bit more information.

1157
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, really quick, I just want to talk about the

1158
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 3: preliminary hearing, if that's okay for it. So the preliminary

1159
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 3: hearing is done because they did not do a grand jury, right,

1160
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 3: so that grand jury, there's no preliminary hearing. The person

1161
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 3: gets indicted in secret. By the way, the defense doesn't

1162
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:17,439
Speaker 3: even know what's happening. In most cases, a preliminary hearing

1163
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 3: is done very publicly.

1164
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 2: Okay, let's go.

1165
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 5: So no, that's exactly right, very helpful, and so just

1166
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:28,280
Speaker 5: sort of a little bit more about this cult. It

1167
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 5: was founded Stephanie Leideker in Nashville back in I had

1168
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:36,920
Speaker 5: nothing to do with it. I'm still I'm still circling

1169
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:37,480
Speaker 5: the details.

1170
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:42,720
Speaker 2: Don't even know your tattoos. Yeah, no, zero, not it

1171
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 2: not it a promise.

1172
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 5: So it was founded in Nashville nineteen ninety eight, relocated

1173
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:52,360
Speaker 5: to California two years later in two thousand and then

1174
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:56,000
Speaker 5: it was operated from homes. It didn't have a big

1175
01:05:56,080 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 5: physical presence, but it was homes all across southern California.

1176
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:07,640
Speaker 5: And this self proclaimed prophetess Kat Martin, she would sort of,

1177
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 5: I mean, she was very emphatic and full bodied about

1178
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 5: how much that she was channeling God. She would fall

1179
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,600
Speaker 5: to the floor and have physical fits and speak with

1180
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 5: what's been described as an extremely deep voice and say,

1181
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 5: the voice of God is coming from me. So people really,

1182
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 5: you know, were believed what she was saying. And members

1183
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 5: have gone on to say that not only was she

1184
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 5: in total control of lives, it included work where people

1185
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:44,920
Speaker 5: were housed, their relationship, and again the medical discussions.

1186
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:47,200
Speaker 2: So there's a rehabit.

1187
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 5: It's Kat Martin, and she also has a husband named Darryl,

1188
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 5: but he's very secondary to her in this.

1189
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:58,280
Speaker 2: Understood, Okay, understood.

1190
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 5: So this first case, which involves a four year old

1191
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:07,560
Speaker 5: boy named Timothy Thomas, So this four year old boy

1192
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 5: was placed in temporary custody of Kat, the prophetess and

1193
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:17,360
Speaker 5: her husband Daryl, while his parents and siblings went off

1194
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:21,680
Speaker 5: and did other things. So while in their custody, but

1195
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:24,640
Speaker 5: think about it, you're handing your child to no better

1196
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:31,680
Speaker 5: hands than the prophetess, any female prophet, male prophet. She's

1197
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:35,480
Speaker 5: a prophet and so God, she proclaims. Anyone who sort

1198
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 5: of proclaims God is speaking to me and through me,

1199
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 5: oh boy, through me.

1200
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:44,160
Speaker 2: Is a prophet. Got it? And it's typically a problem,

1201
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 2: all right, very often?

1202
01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 5: Yes, So this poor four year old he becomes ill,

1203
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:57,440
Speaker 5: he's vomiting, he's lethargic. The father of this four year

1204
01:07:57,480 --> 01:08:01,160
Speaker 5: old boy comes over and the only thing he does

1205
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 5: is pray over him for healing. There is they don't

1206
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:08,280
Speaker 5: do medical, right, they do not see that's right, that's correct,

1207
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 5: because that's a tenant of the cult, and the father,

1208
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 5: a believer, believed his son indeed was improving with prayer,

1209
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:23,559
Speaker 5: and ultimately, very sadly, this four year old boy died

1210
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:25,560
Speaker 5: from a ruptured appendix.

1211
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:30,400
Speaker 2: No so easy to fix. I know, I know, a body.

1212
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 2: Oh my god, so tragic. It's so tragic, so so

1213
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:42,480
Speaker 2: easy to fix. And it's so painful, right, it's excruciating.

1214
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 5: And that's part of what the prosecutors say is that,

1215
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:51,639
Speaker 5: you know, it was a very painful death. So after that,

1216
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 5: there was you know, unsurprisingly, Cat Martin, she did not

1217
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:58,879
Speaker 5: want to be caught by the police when they came around.

1218
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:03,479
Speaker 5: She instructed all of the members to sort of provide

1219
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:09,639
Speaker 5: unified and false account of what happened and threatened the

1220
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:12,240
Speaker 5: souls of everyone in her world.

1221
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:12,960
Speaker 2: Right.

1222
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:16,200
Speaker 3: So these cult members she's the prophet test right, they

1223
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 3: really believe she's the voice of God.

1224
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 2: Right, that's right.

1225
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 3: So if she commands them to do something, they have

1226
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:27,240
Speaker 3: to be obedient, otherwise they're going to rotten hell for

1227
01:09:27,280 --> 01:09:29,960
Speaker 3: the rest of their lives, right, like, that's right. They've

1228
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:32,639
Speaker 3: been so brainwashed to believe that this is the voice

1229
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 3: of God and they have to protect this person. Oh

1230
01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 3: my god, this is horrible.

1231
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 5: Okay, sorry, so no, no, no, that's I get excited

1232
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:40,679
Speaker 5: about colts.

1233
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 2: Yet No, I get it. I could see it. Why though,

1234
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:47,439
Speaker 2: it's unbelievable because you know, you from an outsider looking in,

1235
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:50,439
Speaker 2: you think, how could anybody fall for that? But it's

1236
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 2: so again, it just it's it's almost a grooming. It

1237
01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 2: literally is.

1238
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:55,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1239
01:09:55,400 --> 01:10:00,799
Speaker 2: Oh, it absolutely is. Okay, absolutely crue essentially.

1240
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:05,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, And like all groomers, it starts out wonderfully.

1241
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 2: I want to have you in my flock. You're a

1242
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 2: read your kind of person. You know, live in this community.

1243
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 3: We have this wonderful village of Yeah, we look out

1244
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 3: for each other, out for a family. Now, right, you

1245
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:18,280
Speaker 3: have a family, right, you belong like a.

1246
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:20,919
Speaker 2: Dang Yeah, yes exactly.

1247
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 5: So that all happened and Kat, the prophet, her husband,

1248
01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:30,200
Speaker 5: and the boy's father. They were looked into by the police,

1249
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:37,040
Speaker 5: but there was such conflicting information that ultimately no charges

1250
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:39,880
Speaker 5: were filed. But that is happening now, so you ask

1251
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:42,840
Speaker 5: for some good new Stephanie. It seems like these guys

1252
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 5: will have their day in court. So that was twenty ten, right,

1253
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 5: that was twenty ten and involved that four year old.

1254
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:54,360
Speaker 3: So it's sixteen years. Oh my god, this could we

1255
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 3: be twenty by now?

1256
01:10:56,400 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 2: Is that right?

1257
01:10:57,160 --> 01:10:59,680
Speaker 5: No more than that twenty ten? Sixteen years, he'd be

1258
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:00,640
Speaker 5: twenty exactly right.

1259
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:01,160
Speaker 2: Excuse me?

1260
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:02,320
Speaker 4: Yep?

1261
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:10,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, okay, okay, to be excused. You're perfect, thank you.

1262
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:12,639
Speaker 2: We're forming our own cult.

1263
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 5: It's a cult of finess.

1264
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:19,360
Speaker 2: It's a cult of cult. Oh my god, I love

1265
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:21,639
Speaker 2: that cult. See I would join that cult. Yeah good,

1266
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:25,080
Speaker 2: you're already in it. Yay.

1267
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:30,719
Speaker 5: So on the second homicide, that again is now coming

1268
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 5: to light because of a former member, a woman named

1269
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:36,799
Speaker 5: Kelly Bird, who we'll get into as we follow these cases,

1270
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:40,720
Speaker 5: but she has really been shining a light on all

1271
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:44,639
Speaker 5: of has been going on in this cult. So back

1272
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:48,679
Speaker 5: only in twenty twenty three, a former member, a victim

1273
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:50,479
Speaker 5: named Amelia Ganem.

1274
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:51,840
Speaker 2: He's a forty year old man.

1275
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:56,360
Speaker 5: He leaves the church, and this guy's greatest crime appears

1276
01:11:56,400 --> 01:12:00,360
Speaker 5: to be starting a pest control business. However, is a

1277
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:05,080
Speaker 5: business that grew directly competes with one operated by this cult.

1278
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:08,719
Speaker 2: The cult is not like that, you're going against them

1279
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:12,440
Speaker 2: taking money out of their pocket. That's exactly right, Stephanie.

1280
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 5: And the financial overlordment of Kat the prophetess was really

1281
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:20,720
Speaker 5: it was huge. So for example, if you were part

1282
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:24,679
Speaker 5: of the cult, maybe you were working as a day laborer, Well,

1283
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:27,400
Speaker 5: I'm the one who's getting your paycheck and I'm cutting

1284
01:12:27,439 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 5: you whatever God feels like you should have earned that day,

1285
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:33,840
Speaker 5: oh my goodness, which could have been a couple of dollars,

1286
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:39,599
Speaker 5: depending on God's depending upon God's will. So this man,

1287
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:43,120
Speaker 5: he gets himself out of the cult, he's starting anew

1288
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:47,160
Speaker 5: He disappears after he's last seen at a Starbucks, and

1289
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 5: he has told people at this time that he feared

1290
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:56,240
Speaker 5: retaliation for leaving, and his case shifted from missing person

1291
01:12:56,560 --> 01:13:01,639
Speaker 5: to homicide after investigators found evidence that included a burned

1292
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:05,479
Speaker 5: vehicle that was linked to him in the Mahave desert.

1293
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:11,040
Speaker 5: So it seems like they were absolutely going after him.

1294
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:18,160
Speaker 5: And there has been a joint investigation by all these officials,

1295
01:13:18,439 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 5: the Redlands officers, Colton officers, and Claremont police, and ultimately

1296
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:29,559
Speaker 5: they sort of connect this puzzle which led to arrest.

1297
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:31,240
Speaker 2: Everyone's pleaded not guilty.

1298
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 5: So we have yeah, the leader Kat, she's sixty two,

1299
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:39,200
Speaker 5: in charge with two counts of murder and conspiracy to

1300
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:43,800
Speaker 5: commit murder. Her husband charged with murder in the little

1301
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:50,000
Speaker 5: boy Timothy's death, Timothy's father charged with his son's death,

1302
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:56,439
Speaker 5: and also another two members charged with murder of our

1303
01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:59,240
Speaker 5: second victim, Amelia Ganem.

1304
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:02,479
Speaker 2: I can't imagine it's going to be fun for anybody

1305
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:04,439
Speaker 2: who kills their kid in prison.

1306
01:14:05,320 --> 01:14:12,320
Speaker 5: No, no, no, that's a pretty bad one.

1307
01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:14,679
Speaker 2: Right, I mean maybe there's an added element.

1308
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:20,840
Speaker 3: I think, an added an your own, but your own. Yeah,

1309
01:14:21,479 --> 01:14:24,439
Speaker 3: that might hold a special place in prison, right, Yeah,

1310
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1311
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:27,200
Speaker 2: I mean it feels like it should.

1312
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:32,120
Speaker 5: I recognize it is not comforting, but no, no, but

1313
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:36,879
Speaker 5: I mean listen, at least if these people have finally,

1314
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:43,200
Speaker 5: you know, through through really long legged investigations by multiple agencies,

1315
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 5: you know, if they come to justice, at least the

1316
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:50,599
Speaker 5: cult takes a hit in numbers and is smaller unless

1317
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:53,720
Speaker 5: people are impacted and less bad happens.

1318
01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:58,360
Speaker 2: Maybe looking optimistically, yeah, I mean other than online, I

1319
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 2: guess is where we're seeing the resurgence of cults, right,

1320
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 2: These are online groups, Those are little cults of their

1321
01:15:05,320 --> 01:15:08,599
Speaker 2: own you know that we're learning about with algorithms this time.

1322
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:11,759
Speaker 2: You know, it seems like how would a cult exists

1323
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:16,200
Speaker 2: like annul that exactly or even just the idea of

1324
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:20,040
Speaker 2: an in cell is sort of like a group. You know,

1325
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:25,479
Speaker 2: it's online. It's like exactly somebody sort of is coming

1326
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:29,599
Speaker 2: forward as some said prophetess or profit if you will.

1327
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:32,080
Speaker 5: It's just you know, the cults is just run a

1328
01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:37,720
Speaker 5: little different. Yeah, not absolutely right, not well, not like

1329
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:41,559
Speaker 5: the typical. However, the elements of what you were saying earlier,

1330
01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 5: body of come to our community, right, we understand you.

1331
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:50,600
Speaker 5: You're just like we can all get together. You know,

1332
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:51,960
Speaker 5: you're an outcast.

1333
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:56,719
Speaker 3: This is targeting vulnerable people, maybe just out of gets who.

1334
01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 2: Are really looking for a place or someone to hold

1335
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:02,599
Speaker 2: space for that maybe no family, of course, you don't

1336
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:06,040
Speaker 2: target me cults, you know, or if they're grieving something

1337
01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:09,840
Speaker 2: and that's something that's you know, knowable about them, or

1338
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:14,000
Speaker 2: if they're recovering from something. These are all really human things.

1339
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:17,240
Speaker 2: But you know at that time, you know, you can

1340
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 2: be very vulnerable to being love bombed or taken advantage

1341
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:26,679
Speaker 2: of mentally and dragged into one of these cults. Right,

1342
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:28,720
Speaker 2: and then you know if you are in it, and

1343
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:32,800
Speaker 2: as you know, talk about the just the brainwashing of

1344
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:36,200
Speaker 2: seeing the same things over and over of you know,

1345
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:38,960
Speaker 2: this group that you're in understands you and as good

1346
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:42,000
Speaker 2: and everyone on the outside, all of them, all of

1347
01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:46,519
Speaker 2: the pointing. Then acrimony comes and as we as we've

1348
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:49,200
Speaker 2: seen with many of these groups, I would have been

1349
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:52,120
Speaker 2: the first to get recruited out of the three of us.

1350
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:54,320
Speaker 2: But boy, I think we'd all be a little annoying

1351
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:59,240
Speaker 2: in the cult, Like we might not be welcome to stay.

1352
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:03,960
Speaker 3: Why really, why they'd be like hold your sheets this way?

1353
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:07,320
Speaker 3: Be like why you you? You would be running a

1354
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:10,920
Speaker 3: very tight ship. You can't we colul shirt? Why why

1355
01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:11,920
Speaker 3: you have to wear the uniform?

1356
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:14,640
Speaker 2: I don't work? Why what I pants? What do you

1357
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:16,760
Speaker 2: mean pants for? Do you know what I mean? I

1358
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:21,200
Speaker 2: would do so we would get left. That's exactly right.

1359
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:25,080
Speaker 2: But wow, what a story. You know, it's good that

1360
01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:28,599
Speaker 2: we're talking about this though, because again, recruiters are so clever.

1361
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:33,519
Speaker 2: They'll just get you you're not careful and prepared. But

1362
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:34,800
Speaker 2: how do you get prepared for that?

1363
01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 7: Though?

1364
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:37,200
Speaker 2: Like, how does you know that it exists so you

1365
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:41,360
Speaker 2: don't fall for it? I I guess utten Still around,

1366
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:42,679
Speaker 2: Stick around.

1367
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:44,640
Speaker 3: We've got more to dig into and we've got some

1368
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:46,080
Speaker 3: interesting talk backs to play.

1369
01:17:46,160 --> 01:18:00,479
Speaker 2: Keep it right here, True Welcome back to True tonight

1370
01:18:00,520 --> 01:18:04,360
Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime all the time. I'm

1371
01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:07,840
Speaker 2: Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong and body move in.

1372
01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:11,160
Speaker 2: So much to still get to. We also want to

1373
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:14,200
Speaker 2: get to several talkbacks. You guys are flooding it and

1374
01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:17,800
Speaker 2: I love it. I'm so proud of you guys leaving opinions.

1375
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:21,599
Speaker 2: It's important stuff. Yes, body raising your hands for it?

1376
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:24,880
Speaker 2: Breaking news? What's here at breaking right now? How can't

1377
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:25,280
Speaker 2: take it?

1378
01:18:25,680 --> 01:18:25,920
Speaker 7: Okay?

1379
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:26,320
Speaker 2: Well?

1380
01:18:27,240 --> 01:18:30,720
Speaker 3: A search warrant is being executed at a home in

1381
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:36,800
Speaker 3: Rio Rico, Arizona, in connection with Nancy Guthrie case. A.

1382
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:42,680
Speaker 3: Spokesperson with the Pima County Sheriff's Office, Angelia Carrillo, told CNN.

1383
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:46,160
Speaker 3: The sheriff's office said earlier it was questioning a subject

1384
01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:49,640
Speaker 3: who was stopped during a traffic stop. That person was

1385
01:18:49,680 --> 01:18:54,000
Speaker 3: detained in Rio Rica, So they're searching this person's house.

1386
01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:56,840
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, is it Asso?

1387
01:18:57,160 --> 01:18:57,600
Speaker 4: She is?

1388
01:18:58,080 --> 01:18:59,000
Speaker 2: She's in the house.

1389
01:18:59,160 --> 01:19:02,920
Speaker 3: Maybe your week I went I just like mapped it.

1390
01:19:02,920 --> 01:19:06,360
Speaker 3: It's about sixty miles south of Tucson and the you know,

1391
01:19:06,360 --> 01:19:09,439
Speaker 3: P mcconaugh Sheriff's office said south of Tucson, right, So

1392
01:19:09,479 --> 01:19:12,840
Speaker 3: sixty miles south of Tucson and it's like maybe ten

1393
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:17,360
Speaker 3: minutes away from the border of Narcollis. Yeah, so maybe

1394
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:18,639
Speaker 3: maybe there's some good news coming.

1395
01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:21,200
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just wanted to I wanted to

1396
01:19:21,200 --> 01:19:24,080
Speaker 2: throw so you all had mentioned or somebody. I feel

1397
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:26,439
Speaker 2: like all I do is search for Nancy Guthrie in

1398
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:28,479
Speaker 2: my head. I'm like a one track pony at this

1399
01:19:28,479 --> 01:19:31,880
Speaker 2: point in the Epstein files, which everybody decided they needed

1400
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:34,720
Speaker 2: a break from. I told you to get to it tomorrow.

1401
01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:39,280
Speaker 2: But it does seem like this is very promising. There

1402
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:41,160
Speaker 2: was a lot of chatter that is it possible that

1403
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:44,599
Speaker 2: she was flown to Mexico given that her home could

1404
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:47,240
Speaker 2: be considered close Dare I say? We didn't want to

1405
01:19:47,240 --> 01:19:50,080
Speaker 2: say that out loud because that's a terrible thought, right,

1406
01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:55,720
Speaker 2: but maybe that would mean that there's some real activity happening, right,

1407
01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:58,240
Speaker 2: And my fingers are crossed. I don't think that, listen.

1408
01:19:58,280 --> 01:19:59,759
Speaker 3: I don't think it's gonna havenything to do with Mexico

1409
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:02,200
Speaker 3: only because like you need your passport now to get

1410
01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:04,640
Speaker 3: in and out of Mexico. And I just don't know,

1411
01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:09,080
Speaker 3: you know, that that would have happened. I think that

1412
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:11,960
Speaker 3: she stayed in I think she stayed in Arizona. Well,

1413
01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:13,880
Speaker 3: I mean, listen, I don't even know if this this

1414
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:18,960
Speaker 3: person really is you know, wow related, And then this

1415
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:22,320
Speaker 3: could just be this could just be you know, some

1416
01:20:22,479 --> 01:20:25,479
Speaker 3: guy you know that is sus to them.

1417
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:29,320
Speaker 2: It might not be anything. I'm hoping. I'm really hoping.

1418
01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:31,599
Speaker 3: And I you know, I keep thinking about like why

1419
01:20:32,479 --> 01:20:35,639
Speaker 3: you know, there's so many people missing in this country, right,

1420
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 3: and I just keep thinking about like if this was

1421
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 3: my mom, you know, like if this was my mom,

1422
01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:45,160
Speaker 3: I would I would want everybody to stop. How could

1423
01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:47,840
Speaker 3: you live your life? You know my mom is missing?

1424
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:49,559
Speaker 3: How could you keep moving on with your right?

1425
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:54,760
Speaker 2: Help me? You can't know it's their paralyzed. So I

1426
01:20:54,800 --> 01:20:56,920
Speaker 2: do think we have to just like make sure that

1427
01:20:56,960 --> 01:20:59,439
Speaker 2: we're not getting too swept into the emotion too, because

1428
01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:03,639
Speaker 2: it's so just abilizing. But can we maybe there's other

1429
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:08,000
Speaker 2: people who are being taken and abducted or missing and

1430
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 2: lost and continuing this as a priority, right, you know,

1431
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:14,040
Speaker 2: I'm going on the assumption of a happy ending at

1432
01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:16,639
Speaker 2: this point, and anything other than that seems like mis

1433
01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:20,160
Speaker 2: energy given out. But yeah, like there's a lot of

1434
01:21:20,200 --> 01:21:23,799
Speaker 2: missing people. I mean, the way that everybody's really doubled

1435
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:27,080
Speaker 2: down on this has been very hopeful, and you know,

1436
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 2: shows the spirit that I think everyone has to find

1437
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:33,680
Speaker 2: to find safety. And some of these missing stories or

1438
01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:37,560
Speaker 2: there's there's no there's no end to them, unfortunately.

1439
01:21:38,479 --> 01:21:42,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Pima County Sheriff's Department, it's being assisted right

1440
01:21:42,560 --> 01:21:47,040
Speaker 3: now by the FBI Evidence Response Team and they're conducting

1441
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:51,479
Speaker 3: this court authorized search of this home. So this is

1442
01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:54,880
Speaker 3: I mean, listen, and for a judge to sign off

1443
01:21:54,920 --> 01:21:57,240
Speaker 3: on it, you got to have some kind of probable cause.

1444
01:21:57,040 --> 01:22:03,040
Speaker 2: Right absolutely, Yeah, yeah, interesting, Okay, listen, I'm like f

1445
01:22:03,040 --> 01:22:07,080
Speaker 2: fiving my keyboard. I'm refreshing constantly. So I was just like,

1446
01:22:07,200 --> 01:22:09,720
Speaker 2: I can only imagine how the family must feel. This is,

1447
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:12,479
Speaker 2: you know, what a oh my god, Harmond, what a

1448
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:16,400
Speaker 2: roller coaster emotionally speaking that they're going through watching a movie.

1449
01:22:16,439 --> 01:22:18,400
Speaker 2: But this is real life like this, No, I know,

1450
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:20,840
Speaker 2: I have to check it. I'm like, this seems fake.

1451
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:24,519
Speaker 3: It's impossible, I know it seems like an action movie

1452
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:26,599
Speaker 3: that I'm here. You know, I just bought parking tickets

1453
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:28,080
Speaker 3: to or something. It's just I know, it's like I

1454
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:30,000
Speaker 3: want life in.

1455
01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:31,840
Speaker 2: Danger, Yeah, my life. Yeah.

1456
01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:34,840
Speaker 8: You know when you said earlier body that that video

1457
01:22:34,960 --> 01:22:37,320
Speaker 8: cam footage has probably been held by the FBI, all

1458
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:40,200
Speaker 8: I kept thinking is Savannah probably saw that and has

1459
01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:43,599
Speaker 8: been struggling with that image for like days, No wonder.

1460
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:46,240
Speaker 8: She was like, do you think she would have seen it?

1461
01:22:46,479 --> 01:22:46,960
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1462
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:49,840
Speaker 3: Actually that would be a really good question to ask

1463
01:22:49,880 --> 01:22:53,960
Speaker 3: somebody in law enforcement. I don't know how much the

1464
01:22:54,280 --> 01:22:57,120
Speaker 3: law enforcement would share with the family, especially since nobody's

1465
01:22:57,160 --> 01:22:57,759
Speaker 3: been cleared.

1466
01:22:57,840 --> 01:23:00,040
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, Like, what if one of

1467
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:01,120
Speaker 2: them did it? You know what I mean?

1468
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:02,880
Speaker 7: Oh, that's true.

1469
01:23:03,040 --> 01:23:07,080
Speaker 5: Exactly, And and that's always I mean, we always, very

1470
01:23:07,160 --> 01:23:13,400
Speaker 5: understandably hear from victims family members that it's from their perspective,

1471
01:23:13,439 --> 01:23:16,080
Speaker 5: it's excruciating, it's enraging.

1472
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:17,840
Speaker 2: The information that they do not get.

1473
01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:21,320
Speaker 5: But it's also necessary in order for investigators to do

1474
01:23:21,360 --> 01:23:22,840
Speaker 5: their jobs, just to.

1475
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:24,840
Speaker 2: Be able to move on and check a person off

1476
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:29,160
Speaker 2: the list. I'm sure speaking it's usually somebody in the circle.

1477
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:31,600
Speaker 3: I'm sure they showed them prior to releasing it to

1478
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:35,439
Speaker 3: the public, like an hour or two, maybe even earlier

1479
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:38,200
Speaker 3: than the morning. But I don't think it was any

1480
01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:41,160
Speaker 3: anything that they knew about days ago.

1481
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:46,640
Speaker 2: Gotcha making a face? What what you know?

1482
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:49,000
Speaker 5: I'm actually I was no, no, no, it's a good

1483
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:51,160
Speaker 5: it's not a it's not a true crime, it's not

1484
01:23:51,200 --> 01:23:57,000
Speaker 5: a it's not a breaking news. You want to know

1485
01:23:57,040 --> 01:24:00,519
Speaker 5: what the face is? My face was awe because I

1486
01:24:00,560 --> 01:24:04,360
Speaker 5: am looking at a fan comment and actually, I'll tell you,

1487
01:24:04,439 --> 01:24:06,720
Speaker 5: I'll have you guys play it. It's they're going to

1488
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:08,080
Speaker 5: take a minute, so it's to be the next one.

1489
01:24:08,080 --> 01:24:09,920
Speaker 5: But twenty four A is what I was making a

1490
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:12,720
Speaker 5: face at Stephanie. Oh cute enough.

1491
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:14,559
Speaker 7: I think that was one of the ones we had.

1492
01:24:14,600 --> 01:24:14,880
Speaker 7: It is.

1493
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:16,240
Speaker 2: Let's hear that because that's what?

1494
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:17,599
Speaker 7: Yeah, that was actually right.

1495
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:22,719
Speaker 2: I have no idea. It's Darling Hay True Crime. Much

1496
01:24:22,760 --> 01:24:24,720
Speaker 2: love from April and Texas.

1497
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:27,400
Speaker 6: Just wondering I may have missed a couple of things

1498
01:24:27,439 --> 01:24:30,360
Speaker 6: as I caught up here to your Sunday Night one.

1499
01:24:30,280 --> 01:24:31,920
Speaker 4: What It's happened with True Crime?

1500
01:24:31,960 --> 01:24:35,439
Speaker 1: And Chill I keep watching episodes all on my own, And.

1501
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:38,559
Speaker 2: Also, where's Joseph Scott Morgan, he was on a different day.

1502
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:39,360
Speaker 2: Miss him.

1503
01:24:39,520 --> 01:24:42,160
Speaker 6: Love you guys from Texas by.

1504
01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:45,040
Speaker 2: It's so true. We can't wear We're all up place.

1505
01:24:45,600 --> 01:24:49,479
Speaker 2: We're forgot to Yeah we are. Our follow through is

1506
01:24:49,560 --> 01:24:53,639
Speaker 2: terrible with a calendar, so what happens? It seems just

1507
01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:58,120
Speaker 2: Joseph you dismissed. Yeah, watching the show and I want

1508
01:24:58,160 --> 01:25:01,200
Speaker 2: to talk to somebody after watch through Crime and Chill.

1509
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:04,400
Speaker 2: We're here from you, April. I'll talk to you about edithing.

1510
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:07,120
Speaker 8: I love True Crime and Chill, so I'm all for

1511
01:25:07,360 --> 01:25:10,760
Speaker 8: bringing it back to life. I think it sort of

1512
01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:12,280
Speaker 8: just fell to the wayside around the hall.

1513
01:25:12,360 --> 01:25:14,840
Speaker 2: Well, it turned out to us talking about what we

1514
01:25:14,920 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 2: watched as opposed to it being collaborative with you guys

1515
01:25:18,479 --> 01:25:21,360
Speaker 2: leaving your opinions and calling in and sharing your thoughts

1516
01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:24,400
Speaker 2: and what we all just true Crimed and Chilled. That's right.

1517
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:29,400
Speaker 2: It felt like, you know, maybe it's a clunker. Yeah,

1518
01:25:29,439 --> 01:25:30,920
Speaker 2: that is the truth of it.

1519
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:33,040
Speaker 7: Like it.

1520
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:36,400
Speaker 2: We didn't hate it. If listen, if there's five of

1521
01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:38,640
Speaker 2: us watching something that's fun.

1522
01:25:38,840 --> 01:25:39,840
Speaker 7: We'll retool it.

1523
01:25:39,880 --> 01:25:42,920
Speaker 8: But wait, I think body has some more breaking news.

1524
01:25:43,479 --> 01:25:46,479
Speaker 2: Of course, Well I wouldn't interrupt for anything else, not

1525
01:25:46,520 --> 01:25:50,760
Speaker 2: really very the cutest. Bring it, bring it.

1526
01:25:50,840 --> 01:25:59,360
Speaker 3: The suspect was doing door dash happened? What d Yeah,

1527
01:25:59,439 --> 01:26:03,040
Speaker 3: the the person that they pulled over was doing door

1528
01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:04,080
Speaker 3: dash when it happened.

1529
01:26:04,439 --> 01:26:06,080
Speaker 2: Was a door dash deliverer.

1530
01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:09,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's doing like he's going to Jack in the

1531
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:11,960
Speaker 3: box or whatever and picking up the food and taking

1532
01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:12,439
Speaker 3: the rear.

1533
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:13,760
Speaker 7: And I don't know what.

1534
01:26:15,400 --> 01:26:17,519
Speaker 8: He might have delivered food to her in the past

1535
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:19,400
Speaker 8: and been familiar with the camera work.

1536
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:21,160
Speaker 2: She only orders one meal.

1537
01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:25,160
Speaker 7: I know she's usually alone at this hour.

1538
01:26:25,280 --> 01:26:28,880
Speaker 2: Listen. I don't know. Okay, A, that's insane, but B

1539
01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:30,840
Speaker 2: that's insane.

1540
01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:34,680
Speaker 5: And I got to think with this national with drones

1541
01:26:34,840 --> 01:26:39,120
Speaker 5: and dogs and the FBI and spotlights, I think you

1542
01:26:39,200 --> 01:26:40,760
Speaker 5: take a break from your day job.

1543
01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:43,800
Speaker 2: If you're the actual captor in this instance, I.

1544
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:45,880
Speaker 3: Would imagine, I mean, what are you doing with Nancy

1545
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:48,040
Speaker 3: when you're out there delivering with Donald?

1546
01:26:48,120 --> 01:26:50,200
Speaker 2: Well, she's in the US right now. Maybe they're getting

1547
01:26:50,200 --> 01:26:52,200
Speaker 2: her right now because that's what they're going They're going

1548
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:54,600
Speaker 2: to find her alive. And well, he probably lives with

1549
01:26:54,640 --> 01:26:57,560
Speaker 2: his mom, who doesn't even realize Nancy's in the basements.

1550
01:26:57,160 --> 01:26:59,280
Speaker 7: Going on, right, He's trying to continue his day to

1551
01:26:59,320 --> 01:26:59,760
Speaker 7: day life.

1552
01:27:00,200 --> 01:27:02,280
Speaker 2: You imagine this is your door dash guy. This is

1553
01:27:02,320 --> 01:27:04,840
Speaker 2: making me rethink, what what Courtney?

1554
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:05,720
Speaker 4: What do you do?

1555
01:27:05,920 --> 01:27:06,479
Speaker 2: This face?

1556
01:27:07,240 --> 01:27:09,840
Speaker 5: I My mind is being blown. I don't know by

1557
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:11,240
Speaker 5: all these possibilities.

1558
01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:14,960
Speaker 2: So a door dash person which totally tracks, because that

1559
01:27:15,000 --> 01:27:17,360
Speaker 2: would be somebody who kind of knows the coming and goings.

1560
01:27:17,360 --> 01:27:19,880
Speaker 2: And this is a cautionary tale to all of us.

1561
01:27:20,160 --> 01:27:22,240
Speaker 3: But I would think somebody that does door dash would

1562
01:27:22,360 --> 01:27:24,479
Speaker 3: know that she's got that doorbell and would have been

1563
01:27:24,520 --> 01:27:25,720
Speaker 3: prepared for that instead of.

1564
01:27:25,640 --> 01:27:30,679
Speaker 2: Going into the bushes and trained assassin. I mean, listen,

1565
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:34,360
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, listen, people are different at different jobs.

1566
01:27:34,360 --> 01:27:37,000
Speaker 2: You talked about Brian Entsen, the great he's doing. He's

1567
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:38,680
Speaker 2: everywhere in the world. If that was me, I'd be

1568
01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:40,719
Speaker 2: in a you know, dragon in the dirt. Listen.

1569
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:43,800
Speaker 3: He's on the scene right now. I have his I

1570
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:46,680
Speaker 3: have his face looking at me at my laptop, and

1571
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:49,640
Speaker 3: he's reporting and there's all these lights from the cops.

1572
01:27:49,960 --> 01:27:51,160
Speaker 2: He is literally in.

1573
01:27:51,080 --> 01:27:54,759
Speaker 3: The middle of it right now. He never get desired

1574
01:27:55,400 --> 01:27:59,120
Speaker 3: in Rio Rico, Texas, near the Mexico border where subject

1575
01:27:59,240 --> 01:27:59,840
Speaker 3: was detained.

1576
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:01,599
Speaker 2: I just talked to his.

1577
01:28:01,600 --> 01:28:05,120
Speaker 3: Family and they say he was delivering door dash when

1578
01:28:05,120 --> 01:28:08,080
Speaker 3: he was pulled over. The FBI is searching their house

1579
01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:10,720
Speaker 3: right now, Wow.

1580
01:28:10,479 --> 01:28:12,640
Speaker 2: Had family just threw him under the bus? Why did

1581
01:28:12,640 --> 01:28:14,360
Speaker 2: the family just throw them under the bus that way?

1582
01:28:15,120 --> 01:28:19,920
Speaker 5: I mean, this is not I don't know, this doesn't

1583
01:28:19,960 --> 01:28:22,160
Speaker 5: pass the sniff It doesn't pass the sniff test for

1584
01:28:22,600 --> 01:28:23,479
Speaker 5: necessarily guy.

1585
01:28:23,720 --> 01:28:25,960
Speaker 2: Or do you think he may have some information?

1586
01:28:26,439 --> 01:28:26,559
Speaker 7: Well?

1587
01:28:26,640 --> 01:28:30,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, like I said, if you're literally the world's attention

1588
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:33,800
Speaker 5: is on you, I don't think you are hold up.

1589
01:28:34,080 --> 01:28:37,479
Speaker 2: No, that's how they all do it. It's impossible all

1590
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:40,960
Speaker 2: of them are in plain sight? Is the cooling period

1591
01:28:41,320 --> 01:28:41,680
Speaker 2: that you know?

1592
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:44,080
Speaker 3: Listen what we were told by the p and McConaughy

1593
01:28:44,080 --> 01:28:46,600
Speaker 3: sheriffs with that this is in connection to the disappearance,

1594
01:28:46,720 --> 01:28:49,760
Speaker 3: right right. So maybe it's like, hey, pal let me

1595
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:53,280
Speaker 3: borrow your blue SUV to go.

1596
01:28:54,800 --> 01:28:55,160
Speaker 2: Whatever?

1597
01:28:55,720 --> 01:28:56,559
Speaker 4: Right right right?

1598
01:28:56,920 --> 01:28:58,920
Speaker 3: And so they're like, who did you give your you know,

1599
01:28:58,960 --> 01:29:01,920
Speaker 3: I don't know, right, but that that but maybe it's

1600
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:02,400
Speaker 3: something like.

1601
01:29:02,360 --> 01:29:05,720
Speaker 8: That or the accomplice, like we don't know if there

1602
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:09,120
Speaker 8: was one or two. Maybe ye keep an eye. We

1603
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:10,479
Speaker 8: never saw the car from the angle of.

1604
01:29:10,479 --> 01:29:12,240
Speaker 2: The can you never did I look for it too?

1605
01:29:12,479 --> 01:29:12,679
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1606
01:29:12,840 --> 01:29:15,120
Speaker 7: Did I bet you? You looked at the video.

1607
01:29:15,160 --> 01:29:17,479
Speaker 8: I've been dying to ask you any feelings or theories

1608
01:29:17,479 --> 01:29:18,240
Speaker 8: on that backpack.

1609
01:29:18,240 --> 01:29:19,360
Speaker 7: It looked really full, like.

1610
01:29:19,400 --> 01:29:21,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's one of the things that made me

1611
01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:24,000
Speaker 3: feel was very amateur. I'm like, what is in this backpack?

1612
01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:26,760
Speaker 3: Because it's very full, and I'm like, what is he

1613
01:29:26,880 --> 01:29:30,479
Speaker 3: putting in this backpack? This woman is ambulatory, she's eighty

1614
01:29:30,479 --> 01:29:34,360
Speaker 3: four years old. She can't she can't walk fifty feet apparently, right,

1615
01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:36,720
Speaker 3: Why does he need all this equipment.

1616
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:43,920
Speaker 2: And tent, this gun? And we should not be laughing.

1617
01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:49,480
Speaker 2: This is not this is weird exhaustion, nervous energy laughs.

1618
01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:52,280
Speaker 2: So please take that in the spirit it's intended. But

1619
01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:55,960
Speaker 2: the video of him with a gun around his neck

1620
01:29:56,720 --> 01:30:00,479
Speaker 2: seems like you it was like in his like carry

1621
01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:02,639
Speaker 2: over its own two feet.

1622
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:07,320
Speaker 3: It's very mean, questionable, And this crazy backpack that's like stuffed.

1623
01:30:10,880 --> 01:30:13,680
Speaker 7: If you're going to you probably want to be.

1624
01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:17,840
Speaker 3: You can just push her then pick her up, you know,

1625
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:19,680
Speaker 3: I mean, like what, I don't understand.

1626
01:30:20,160 --> 01:30:21,400
Speaker 2: It's crazy to me.

1627
01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:25,160
Speaker 7: Think you no, no, you're right, you're onto something and

1628
01:30:25,200 --> 01:30:25,479
Speaker 7: thank you.

1629
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:29,040
Speaker 2: Here's you're the only same one. That's a fact.

1630
01:30:29,439 --> 01:30:32,960
Speaker 8: No, that's Ian's fascinated by the story dash connection here.

1631
01:30:33,040 --> 01:30:35,760
Speaker 2: So this part I can't let go, but like, think

1632
01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:37,840
Speaker 2: about these are the things that we're all using. So

1633
01:30:37,880 --> 01:30:41,960
Speaker 2: there's take away the door dash neest, these sorts of

1634
01:30:42,200 --> 01:30:44,559
Speaker 2: you know, just things that were kind of you know,

1635
01:30:44,760 --> 01:30:47,559
Speaker 2: garage doors and not walking people in, you know, just

1636
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:49,400
Speaker 2: things for us all to be aware of too, with

1637
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:52,640
Speaker 2: each other. Because Apple, it seems like this is a

1638
01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:55,280
Speaker 2: real takeaway too, is that we have to be looking out.

1639
01:30:55,560 --> 01:30:58,519
Speaker 5: I mean, my ama is the person who delivers my

1640
01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:04,000
Speaker 5: Amazon boxes knows more about me than my priest for sure.

1641
01:31:04,880 --> 01:31:09,479
Speaker 5: You know, Like like she said, it's so true. What

1642
01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:13,160
Speaker 5: are your patterns? What are you this another update?

1643
01:31:13,200 --> 01:31:15,960
Speaker 3: Body, listen, there's okay, there was some scuttle butt that

1644
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:18,439
Speaker 3: I did not repeat, but I'm going to repeat it

1645
01:31:18,479 --> 01:31:18,800
Speaker 3: right now.

1646
01:31:18,920 --> 01:31:20,400
Speaker 2: Okay, there was.

1647
01:31:20,439 --> 01:31:25,280
Speaker 3: A metavap done from Rio Rio Rica where all this

1648
01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:28,599
Speaker 3: is happening up to a big hospital in Tucson, Okay,

1649
01:31:28,640 --> 01:31:32,040
Speaker 3: and many people were speculating that this is Nancy. They

1650
01:31:32,080 --> 01:31:34,400
Speaker 3: found her, they're taking her to the hospital. Yes, the

1651
01:31:34,400 --> 01:31:36,920
Speaker 3: Pima County Sheriff's office has put out a statement that

1652
01:31:36,960 --> 01:31:39,479
Speaker 3: they're not connected. And I want I wanted just to

1653
01:31:39,560 --> 01:31:41,200
Speaker 3: let everybody know, so.

1654
01:31:41,120 --> 01:31:45,559
Speaker 2: That you don't have to sort of fall promise there. Okay, good,

1655
01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:47,080
Speaker 2: that's good though, because I would have seen that and

1656
01:31:47,120 --> 01:31:48,920
Speaker 2: I would have thought it was helpful. I was like,

1657
01:31:49,000 --> 01:31:52,240
Speaker 2: oh right, so I just wanted to let everybody know

1658
01:31:52,960 --> 01:31:54,040
Speaker 2: be my money Sheriff's.

1659
01:31:54,240 --> 01:31:57,840
Speaker 3: They put out a post on Twitter that's whatever, saying,

1660
01:31:58,479 --> 01:31:59,040
Speaker 3: what kind of.

1661
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:01,240
Speaker 2: A whack of do do you have to be that

1662
01:32:01,320 --> 01:32:04,040
Speaker 2: you're driving door Dash in your free time?

1663
01:32:04,320 --> 01:32:04,599
Speaker 6: You were?

1664
01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:09,360
Speaker 2: You don't know that this is an abjecting Nancy Guthrie

1665
01:32:09,640 --> 01:32:12,320
Speaker 2: and this is not a stand on all the abovendus

1666
01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:15,439
Speaker 2: wonderful door Dash delivers.

1667
01:32:15,479 --> 01:32:19,240
Speaker 3: These people that deliver our food know so much about us. Yeah,

1668
01:32:19,479 --> 01:32:23,040
Speaker 3: she orders one burrito and one coke, like what, there's

1669
01:32:23,080 --> 01:32:26,240
Speaker 3: only one sing there and she orders three times a

1670
01:32:26,280 --> 01:32:29,840
Speaker 3: week whatever, right, Yeah, she never answer or she does

1671
01:32:29,880 --> 01:32:32,519
Speaker 3: answer the door, and oh my gosh, he's old as heck.

1672
01:32:33,160 --> 01:32:34,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's friendly.

1673
01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:37,240
Speaker 7: She's probably her last name Guthrie.

1674
01:32:37,479 --> 01:32:40,920
Speaker 2: She's a tipper. Maybe she's got some money she's got you.

1675
01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:43,920
Speaker 8: Know, if they recognize the face from the show, like, oh,

1676
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:46,080
Speaker 8: that's the woman that's sometimes when daughter.

1677
01:32:46,120 --> 01:32:48,559
Speaker 2: And maybe that's why she came to the door because

1678
01:32:48,600 --> 01:32:50,880
Speaker 2: he was like, Hey, it's me. We met earlier, you've

1679
01:32:50,920 --> 01:32:55,120
Speaker 2: met me before. I need your help. Maybe there was

1680
01:32:55,240 --> 01:32:59,160
Speaker 2: something slightly familiar. But how many eighty four year olds

1681
01:32:59,160 --> 01:33:00,639
Speaker 2: do you guys know that dash?

1682
01:33:01,320 --> 01:33:01,800
Speaker 7: Not a lot?

1683
01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:04,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder that's a great question. My mother is

1684
01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:09,839
Speaker 2: very capable of ordering a door dash, does she really? Yeah? Yeah,

1685
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:14,360
Speaker 2: maybe she's gonna probably solve this before. Anyway, she's probably

1686
01:33:14,360 --> 01:33:16,760
Speaker 2: on the Nancy Guthrie case, that is for sure. She

1687
01:33:16,920 --> 01:33:21,439
Speaker 2: is knee deep in questions on this stuff. Yeah, let's

1688
01:33:21,479 --> 01:33:24,679
Speaker 2: pray for good stuff. We're back tomorrow for all things legal.

1689
01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:28,200
Speaker 2: Jarrett Farentino, our favorite prosecutor, is going to be with us.

1690
01:33:28,240 --> 01:33:32,679
Speaker 2: And also we have the Murdoch, the murder Alex murder.

1691
01:33:32,760 --> 01:33:36,639
Speaker 2: Murdoch is back in court. He is appealing. Man. There's

1692
01:33:36,640 --> 01:33:39,000
Speaker 2: a lot of backstory to unpack on that one as well.

1693
01:33:39,080 --> 01:33:42,519
Speaker 2: And of course, yes, Epstein Files, stay safe out there.

1694
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:44,759
Speaker 2: Good night everyone, True Crime Tonight,