1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: Mr garbutschaf tear down this wall. Either you're with us 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: where you were with the terrorists. If you've got healthcare already, 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: then you can keep your plan. If you're satisfied with 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,279 Speaker 1: it is not a president of the United States, take 5 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: it to a bank. Together, we will make America great again. 6 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: You'll never sharend It's what you've been waiting for all day. 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 1: Buck Sexton with America now joined the conversation called buck 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: toll free at eight four four nine hundred Buck. That's 9 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: eight four four nine hundred two, eight to five, sharp mind, 10 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: strong voice, Buck Sexton, come to the Freedom Hunt. Big 11 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: day for the administration. Oh my, oh, yes, here we go. 12 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: I talked to you many days, day in and day 13 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: out here about focusing on the agenda, get things done, 14 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: take action. Well, today it seems not only do we 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: have the administration making the case, but we've got some 16 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,839 Speaker 1: senators who are stepping up and deciding that yes, in fact, 17 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: they will do something on the issue of immigration. There 18 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: we have it, finally, finally something to look at and say, Okay, 19 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: so this isn't just this isn't just necessarily a huge 20 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: waste of time. This whole Republican Party thing that we've 21 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: got going on there, there are some reasons to believe 22 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: that maybe they will in fact get some legislation pass 23 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: that will change things that will actually improve different parts 24 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: of this country. It's possible. It's not definite, but it's 25 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: certainly possible. So you had the proposal go for today, 26 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: um from a couple of senators. You have Senator Tom 27 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: Cotton making the case publicly, and then you have this 28 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: this conference or this press conference by Steven Miller that 29 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: was just phenomenal. You know what, Actually, I want to 30 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: get into the Miller press conference right away because I 31 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: thought this was the first of all is the best 32 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 1: press conference I can remember of the Trump era since 33 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: since he initially went on that went on that rampage, 34 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: or he was pointing at CNN and calling him fake 35 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 1: news and very fake news. Stephen Miller was in Fuego today. 36 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: I mean he was doing a great job handling the press. 37 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: I mean that Miller Acosta Jim Acosta from CNN. That 38 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: exchange that they had was wow, it was great and 39 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: it really highlights, by the way, one of the primary 40 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,119 Speaker 1: divides it. It's one of those moments where you could say, 41 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: you know what, this is why we've got Trump because 42 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: of the mentality expressed by someone like Jim Jim Acosta. This, 43 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: this is why we've got Trump. This is how we've 44 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:02,959 Speaker 1: come to the current situation where people are just they've 45 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: just had enough. So let's let's get into a bit 46 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: of what I said I want to get to this 47 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: press conference. I do here the basics. Right, we could 48 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: talk a lot about what's going on with immigration. Right, 49 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: here are the basics. You have um a couple of 50 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: GOP Senators Tom Cotton and David Perdue, Cotton of Arkansas, 51 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: Perdue of Georgia. They have rolled out legislation that would 52 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: address shortcomings in current legal immigration policy. Let's write legal immigration. 53 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: Forget about illegals for a moment. This is primarily concerned. 54 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: This is concerned with our legal immigration system. Who we're 55 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: letting into the country. Why are we making the decisions 56 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: that we do as a government on behalf of the 57 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: American people about who's let into America. Okay, So we're 58 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: going to have an end to chain migration and a 59 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: point based skill system. Those are the two primary points 60 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: in this whole in this whole ordeal, that's that's what 61 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: will change. Shame migration being if you're here, you get 62 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: to sponsor somebody who is a relative to come here, 63 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: which means that you just have more relative sponsoring more 64 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: relatives and they go to the front of the line. 65 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: A point system would replace that, meaning that now they're 66 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: gonna look at you and they're going to decide, well, 67 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: what do you bring to the country, what skills, maybe 68 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: even what resources? Why should we let you in the 69 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: country becomes an issue of merit instead of an issue 70 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 1: of well, the accident of what country you come from 71 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: and what current immigration law is based on what Teddy 72 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 1: Kennedy and others decided decades ago. So that's it, right, 73 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: This is a completely reasonable proposal, and I think for 74 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: a lot of Americans they hear this, they go, yeah, 75 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: that's right. Of cour course, of course, we should make 76 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: these decisions based upon what's best for the country. We 77 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: don't have an immigration system set up to make elite 78 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: liberals in this country feel good about themselves. That's actually 79 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: not what the purpose of the immigration system is supposed 80 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: to be. It is to benefit those who are already 81 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: here citizens, green card holders, to benefit the people who 82 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: are Americans who are here for good. That's the way 83 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: this is supposed to work, but that's not how it 84 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: has been working. But you'll notice that while this isn't 85 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: a completely sensible proposal, there is nothing about this that 86 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: strikes me as in any way odd. In fact, what's 87 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: odd is that now when you talk about going from 88 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 1: a million, that's right, a million Green cards given out 89 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: year in and year out. So let's say at the 90 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 1: end of this, assuming this becomes law on there are 91 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: hurdles and we'll get into all this five hundred thousand, 92 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: that five hundred thousand green card holders, if that is 93 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: in fact what the country starts to do because of 94 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: this new legislation that the Republicans in the Senate and 95 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: the Trump administration trying to get through that there's a 96 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: surge of nativism and xenophobia, fear of foreigners. That's what 97 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: they will say, because it's not a million now, it's 98 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: five hundred thousand. Now, it will get into the numbers. 99 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: It hasn't always been a million, It used to be 100 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: a lot less than In fact that there have been 101 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: whole periods in our history where we had a more 102 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 1: or less shutdown of the immigration system. And you can 103 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: certainly make the argument and use case studies in history 104 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: to support the argument that that allowed for greater assimilation, 105 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: that this was in fact very useful. This was very 106 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: helpful to the country because those who had come in 107 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: as recent immigrants had time to adapt to the culture, 108 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: to be come more established, and to become fully Americanized. 109 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: But if you're just bringing in year in and year out, 110 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: disparate cultures from all over the world in large numbers, 111 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,679 Speaker 1: you start to have not assimilation, but you could say 112 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: an infusion or an imposition of outside ideas beliefs onto 113 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:30,119 Speaker 1: the American onto the American conscience. That's that's what can happen, 114 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: right then, And this is the very simple thought experiment 115 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: you can put forward as Okay, Well, in the Netherlands, 116 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: if they brought in fifty thousand immigrants all from let's 117 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: say a all from Pakistan. I'm just picking a country 118 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: at random that would be an immigrant population. In facts, 119 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: if they brought in five thousand, that would change what 120 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: it feels like what it is to be a citizen 121 00:07:55,120 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: of that country because you would have a shift in politics, culture. Um, 122 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: that would be impossible to miss. It would be obvious 123 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: to all. Right, so we know that the numbers matter, 124 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: but we're being told that, well, if it's less than 125 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: if it's less than a million, if we go back 126 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: to five thousand, then that's some terrible thing. Why is 127 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: that for Democrats. Let's just get this out here right away. 128 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: This is about two things and two things only. And 129 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: this is echoed by the media and this, uh, this 130 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: is an argument that we've got to get ready for 131 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: it right now. This is about two things. One power. 132 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: Democrats rely on large numbers of unskilled immigrants to give 133 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: them votes because unskilled immigrants are more likely to be 134 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: needing help from the state, They're more likely, yes to 135 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: be using welfare, and so that they would like the 136 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: large numbers of unskilled imgrants to come to the country. 137 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: And also they like immigration from the Third World because 138 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: the Third World is predominantly non white, and because the 139 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: Democratic Party's identity politics are so central to it. Right now, 140 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: the more non wide immigrants the Democratic Party can bring in, 141 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,239 Speaker 1: the more the Democratic Party believes it is building towards 142 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: a one party state, a permanent majority. This also is 143 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: one of the primary reasons, really the primary reason beyond 144 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: the Democrats are so desperate to get amnesty as well, 145 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: they view a permanent majority as in play based on 146 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: huge numbers of not just immigrants, but illegal immigrants. So 147 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: the other part of this, so that's one part power, 148 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: just pure power politics for the Democratic Party. The other 149 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: aspect of it is the social signaling, the virtue signaling, 150 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: the social justice warrior aspect of this. But for particularly 151 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: for the limousine liberal, private jet progressive set, those who 152 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: like to just think of themselves as incredibly you could say, 153 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: morally meretricious. I mean, they're they're showy in their in 154 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: their morality. Right, there's such good people, they're so concerned, 155 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 1: they're so sanctimonious and superior. They just want to see 156 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: the world's tired and uh poor and huddled masses yearning 157 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: to breathe free. That's right. That's the the poem and 158 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: actually came up today as though that's a part of 159 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,319 Speaker 1: the constitution or something. It's a poem written by some 160 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: lady who was trying to raise some money at the 161 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: Statue of liberty. But the media does not know that, 162 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: which is a perfect transition. I guess now that we've established, 163 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 1: why do the Democrats and the media same thing? Right, 164 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:50,439 Speaker 1: I repeat myself, Why does the Democrat media oppose this 165 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: reduction in legal immigration, so vehemently they'll say anything. They'll 166 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: say it's racism. They'll say it's gonna destroy our economy. 167 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: They'll say, and by the way, there are Republicans too, 168 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: are gonna say this was very troubling. You're gonna see 169 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: a lot of Republicans that, if they haven't already deeply 170 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: disappoint you on this issue, I think I think that's likely. 171 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: But we've established why they want power and they want 172 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: to feel good about themselves at the expense of other people. 173 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:23,439 Speaker 1: We should know. You don't see a lot of prominent leftists, 174 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: well connected, wealthy leftists living in especially the ones that 175 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: are have big shows on MSNBC and you know, ABC 176 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 1: and all this. You won't see them living in immigrant neighborhoods. No, no, no, 177 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 1: no no. Their kids don't have to go to school 178 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: with their kids, don't have to deal with English as 179 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: a second language becoming the primary academic focus in the 180 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: classroom because nobody speaking English. I mean, they don't have 181 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: to compete for jobs with the newly arrived immigrants. This 182 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: is actually even came up today. So there's a really 183 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 1: a really pernicious, nasty elitism that drives a lot of 184 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: this conversation and also a sneering contempt that as though 185 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 1: we're not going to figure out that the Chris Matthews 186 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: and the Joe Scarboroughs and the you know, go down 187 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 1: the list of this country who will be as sanctimonious 188 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 1: as anyone on on immigration. I am sure. I mean, 189 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: I'm just picking people at random that I that I 190 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: know like to hang out in Nantucket and our fancy 191 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: who are big in the media, you know, Rachel Mattow, 192 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: you name them, right, they're gonna be talking about how 193 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: this is so terrible. But they don't live in immigrant 194 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,959 Speaker 1: majority neighborhoods. They don't deal with immigrant crime, illegal immigrant 195 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: crime specifically, Um, they don't. They don't have to handle 196 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: these problems. So they get to just like when people 197 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 1: talk about raising the tax rates and but on everybody 198 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: else right, or climate change is a a mortal threat 199 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: for us, But I'm not going to change my behavior. 200 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: You change your behavior. They live in these gated communities 201 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: or they live in doorman buildings here in New York City. 202 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: They don't have to deal with immigrants, but they love 203 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: to talk about how much they love immigrants. And you 204 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: saw that today. And that's why the the Stephen Miller 205 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: Jim Acosta exchange is one of the single best things 206 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: I have seen on TV in a long time. Um, 207 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: and Miller just calls him out. Third, are we just 208 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: going to bring in people from Great Britain and Australia 209 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: as Actually to say, I am shocked at your statement 210 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: that you think that only people from Great Britain and 211 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: Australia would know English. It's actually it reveals your cosmopolitan 212 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: bias to a shocking degree that in your mind, Now, 213 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: this is an amazing this is an amazing moment. This 214 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: is an amazing moment that you think only people from 215 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: Great Britain or Australia would speak English. It is so 216 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: insulting to millions of hard working immigrants who do speak 217 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: English from all over the world. Jim, if you honestly, Jim, 218 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: have you honestly never met an immigrant from another country 219 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: who speaks English outside of Great Britain in Australia. Is 220 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: that your personal experience? But that's not what you said, 221 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: and it shows, it shows your cost and Politan bias. 222 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,239 Speaker 1: And I just want to say, you're trying to engineer 223 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: an ethnic flow of people into this country. That is 224 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: one of the most outrageous, insulting, ignorant, and foolish things 225 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: you've ever said. It was a great exchange. I mean, 226 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: Stephen Miller, I I tipped my antice. I did a 227 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: fantastic job today. And also you just see this these 228 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: journalists in the West, with these journalists who get all 229 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: whiny about not being able to have the televised press 230 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: conferences for them, it's just it's just about air time. 231 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: It's just about ego. It's not about journalism. It's not 232 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: about bringing the American people to facts. You know, democracy 233 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: dies in darkness. No, it's about you know, being on 234 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: TV and being famous. All right, I want to talk 235 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: more about how this is going to turn into a 236 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: debate over racism. It already happened today. We've got more 237 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: that Stephen Miller exchange. We'll get into the details of 238 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: this bill. But a really important, really really important day, 239 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: really impactful day for the Republican Party if they can 240 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: get this through, for the Trump administration for leading the 241 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: fight on this. Actually want it's actually about sweeping change. Surely, Jim, 242 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: you don't actually think that a wall affects green car policy. 243 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: You couldn't possibly believe that. Do you actually in the 244 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: notion that you actually think immigration is a historic law? 245 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: The FOREI imporn population the United States? Today with Jim 246 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: Jim talking about how border crossings, do you really I 247 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: want to be serious him, do you really at CNN 248 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: not another difference between green car policy and legal immigration? Right? 249 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: I mean, you really don't know that he came to 250 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: this country right before the Cuban missile crisis. So but 251 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: with this, you know, he's he's just out there, Uh 252 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: you know, he's he's out there pushing back on all 253 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: this nonsense from from the press corps. Are they There 254 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: was a whole exchange about and I don't see if 255 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: I can pull it for you about the Statue of Liberty, 256 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: and I mean Acosta was talking about being sanctimonious here 257 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: it was. It was some pretty exceptional stuff. And of 258 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: course he said that, uh, well, Miller had to defend 259 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: whether or not this was a a quote a racist bill. 260 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: Here's what here's what he said about this. The notion 261 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: that you think that this is a racist bill is 262 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: so wrong and so insulting. Jim. The reality is is 263 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: that before and born population into our country has quadruple 264 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: since nineteen seventy. That's a fact. It's been mostly driven 265 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: by green card policy. Now this bill allows for immediate 266 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: nuclear family members to come into the country much as 267 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: they would today, and then it as an additional points 268 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: space system. The people have been hurt the most, The 269 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: people who've been, the people who've been, the people who've 270 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: been the people who have been hurt the most by 271 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: the policy you're advocating are apparently just unfettered, uncontrolled migration. 272 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 1: That people have been hurt the most by the policy 273 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 1: what you're doing. The people have been hurt the most 274 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: by the policy that you're The people even hurt the 275 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: most of the policy you're advocating are immigrant workers and 276 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: minority workers, and African American workers and Hispanic workers. So 277 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 1: you'll notice he's not backing down despite the fact, um, 278 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: despite the fact that the uh, the press corps there, 279 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: and there were others as well. I mean, you had, 280 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: uh that guy from the New York Times was was 281 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: getting on it. I Mean, all these reporters are just 282 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: so smug about how much they oh, they all just 283 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,959 Speaker 1: love they all just love talking about how much they 284 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: want unskilled immigration from the Third world into this country. 285 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: You know, the New York Times was writing editorials in 286 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: like the year two thousand about how you know, unskilled 287 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: immigration in large numbers into America actually depresses the wages 288 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: of workers at the lower end of the socio economic 289 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: stratum and is in fact the word worst most damaging 290 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: to the wages of African American workers in this country. 291 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 1: That was in the New York Times editorial board. Maybe 292 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: I want to say, I don't know if the economics 293 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: changed all of a sudden or oh no, that's right, 294 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: the Democrat Party changed, And I don't think that the 295 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: infusion of a whole lot of cash from Carlos Slim 296 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 1: of Mexico had nothing to do with a substantial change 297 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: in the New York Times his line when it comes 298 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: to immigration. I think we can suggest that maybe it 299 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: just had some degree of influence, just just a little bit. 300 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: But anyway, I this is you got, It's worth it. 301 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: I'm telling you that the Miller exchange today was phenomenal. 302 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 1: Stuff with with with the cost overt CNN, it's a 303 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 1: Costa was really going for the grandstanding and Miller was 304 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: having none of it. He just he kept fighting and fighting, 305 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: and I thought he did. He did a great job. 306 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: But this raises some questions, what exactly do Democrats think 307 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: about citizens and citizenship in this country? Do they even 308 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: believe that it is value or has value? Or is 309 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: it just something we should give away to anybody. He's 310 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: back with you now, because when it comes to the 311 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: fight for truth, the fund never stops. Aren't everybody? Immigration 312 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: the top of the agenda for today. The Trump administration 313 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: deciding that they are going to push forward, with some help, 314 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: of course from the Senate UH, to limit legal immigration 315 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: to the country, to change to a point system, a 316 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: massive shift in how immigration is done. Here to talk 317 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,959 Speaker 1: to us about it, we've got Mark Corey and online. 318 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: He's executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies. Mark, 319 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: great to have you, You're glad to be here. Uh, 320 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: tell us about what happened to that. I know you've 321 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: got a piece up why Trump is right about immigration 322 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: upon National Interest dot Org. Well why is he right? 323 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: What happened? Well, this was a Trump endorsed something, but 324 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 1: it was the senator, Senator Tom Cotton, who's a rising 325 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 1: star among the Republicans, and Senator Perdue who wrote put 326 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: together a bill to basically modernize and rationalize our immigration system. 327 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: And it would do two big things. First, it would 328 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 1: focus family immigration rights, just on nuclear family, because now 329 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: there's all kinds of your adult sons and daughters, adult 330 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 1: brothers and sisters, the parents of adult citizens, all kinds 331 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: of people can get green cards. This would focus it 332 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: on husband's wives and little kids of American citizens and 333 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: of residents, and that makes perfect sense. And what it 334 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: also does it reduces the number of lesser skilled workers 335 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: coming in and it reduces chain migration because what you 336 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: have is, you know, the next batch of immigrants is 337 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: sponsored by the last batch of immigrants, and you sort 338 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: of lose control over the immigration flow. So that's the 339 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: first thing focuses immigration on nuclear family. And then the 340 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: other part is what you refer to this points system, 341 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: where the skills part of immigration exists now in the law, 342 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: but it's this jumble of a whole bunch half a 343 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: dozen categories and there's subcategories, and it's it's basically made 344 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: for you know, lawyers to charge money to navigate through. 345 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: You know, it's a mess. They're streamlining that to have 346 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: one point system like they have in Canada or Australian. 347 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: What that means is you would enter information about yourself 348 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: and you'd get points for various characteristics. If you have 349 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: a pH d in science, you would get certain number 350 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: of points. If you score high on an English language 351 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: aptitude test, you get a certain number of points that 352 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: sort of thing. And then the people that would be 353 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: selected the for immigration will be drawn from that pool 354 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 1: that you know that passed the threshold, that made the 355 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: cut through with these points. And what you're gonna end 356 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: up with is it's it will be easier for the 357 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: highest skilled people to get into the country without a 358 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: lot of fuss and bother, instead of waiting at the 359 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: end of some line. It's something that came up today, 360 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: Mark that I think people have heard of before. But 361 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I don't even really know much about 362 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: how it functions and and even why it's in place. 363 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: I know it comes at least I think I know 364 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: it comes from Teddy Kennedy's uh nine sixties era Immigration Act. 365 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: But the diversity visa lottery system? What is that? And 366 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: I know that's supposed to go away? So what happened? Yeah, 367 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 1: this bill just gets rid of it. It's a complete scam. 368 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: Was invented actually in the eighties, okay, by Ted Kennedy. Again, 369 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: I mean, okay, so it was it was years. Every 370 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: year after year he kept screwing up our immigration system. 371 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: And what it does is it gives out green cards 372 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: at random to fifty people from anywhere in the world 373 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: except from the top, you know, twelve or so countries, 374 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 1: so Mexicans can't get it. But it's mainly an Eastern European, 375 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: Middle Eastern, and African immigration program. But there's no there's 376 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 1: really no standards, there's no you're not picking the best 377 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: and brightest. It's just literally like it's called a lottery 378 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 1: and millions of people enter in order to u you know, 379 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: in order to get a green card. And it's no 380 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: other country runs anything like this is probably the dumbest 381 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 1: part of our immigration system. And this, um, this bill 382 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: would finally get rid of the thing. What was the 383 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: initial idea behind this? I mean, yeah, it's interesting. It's 384 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 1: very in the eight Amnesty, the big Amnesty, that's when 385 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 1: the origin because it's changed some, but that's when it started. 386 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: And the point of it then was to amnesty Irish 387 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: illegal immigrants because the immigration the amnesty people, yeah, exactly. 388 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: The amnesty provisions of that law mainly benefited Mexicans. The 389 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: Irish illegals had come more recently, and they also didn't 390 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: do farm work because that was the other part of 391 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: the amnesty. So they cooked up this cockamami scheme to 392 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,880 Speaker 1: have a call a diversity lottery in order to get 393 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: Irish illegal aliens green cards. That's all it was about. 394 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: And even and now there's not many Irish at all 395 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 1: who use it. But to this day, a lot of 396 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: Congressmen say, oh, yeah, that's the Irish program. We want 397 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: to keep that. There's no irishman coming in. But it 398 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: just continues out of kind of inertia. It sticks around. 399 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 1: I know, We've got a lot from today again into 400 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 1: I'm just so curious. I had no idea. So Teddy Kennedy, 401 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: you know, Massachusetts, Boston, something for the Irish. I get it. 402 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: How many Irish were affected? How many Irish got hooked 403 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,400 Speaker 1: up by this diversity lottery system? Well, originally with thousands 404 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: of Irish illegal aliens got amnesty through this because there 405 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 1: was a lot of Irish illegal immigration, and somehow that's 406 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: supposed to be better than Mexican because I don't know, 407 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: what you know is they're white or they're from Europe. 408 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, illegal immigrant is an illegal 409 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: imigrant as far as I'm concerned. But somehow that was 410 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: supposed to be better. Um. But anyway, with thousands of 411 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: Irish illegal immigrants got amnesty through it. It's changed over 412 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: the years, so it really isn't an Irish program anymore, 413 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: but they still think of it that way now. Really 414 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: it's basically a kind of Ukrainian, Egyptian and you know, 415 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 1: Nigerian program. It's kind of is what it turns into now. 416 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: But the fact is it doesn't and this is the 417 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: basic problem with our much of our immigration system. It 418 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: doesn't select the best and brightest. It's kind of random, 419 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: and there's no reason we should be admitting random immigrants 420 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 1: when there are Einstein's out there who want to come here. 421 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: The administration put out there the figure today with Stephen 422 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 1: Miller leading a feisty press conference, which I have heard 423 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: entertained very much enjoyed. Yes, uh, the the administration said 424 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: fifty of immigrant households receive welfare benefits. You know, Mark, 425 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 1: I know you deal with this all the time, the 426 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 1: numbers and then the messaging you're always hearing from the 427 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 1: media that immigrants into this country are less likely to 428 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: commit crimes, more productive, less likely to be on weelfare. Well, 429 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: fifty percent of households on welfare. That's more than actually 430 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: the the the American native born number. So how do 431 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: we get to this place? And does anyone contest that number? No, 432 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: because I mean that's our number. Actually it's I mean 433 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: we're the ones who they did the work on that. 434 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: And the reason we were able to find this is 435 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 1: because we used a different Census Bureau survey that's actually 436 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 1: a much higher number then other Census Bureau surveys show. 437 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: We went and looked at the Census Bureau survey that 438 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: specifically asks about welfare use. You'd think somebody would have 439 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: done that before. The reason they didn't And I don't 440 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: understand this because my number cruncher people understand this stuff 441 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: more than I do. But it's very hard to work with. 442 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: You really need to be working at a high level 443 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: of number crunching to be able to manipulate that data. 444 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: And I don't mean in a bad way. Minute they 445 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,399 Speaker 1: just used that data, so nobody ever did. They were lazy, 446 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: So we did. We spent months working on this thing, 447 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: and it shows that about half of immigrant households are 448 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: using at least one welfare program and this. So the 449 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: conclusion from this is not that immigrants are bad. You know, 450 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: it's not like that your grandma from Sicily was better 451 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: because she didn't use welfare. There wasn't a welfare back then. 452 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: The problem here is we're letting in people who are 453 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: poorly educated. They're basically nineteenth century style immigrants coming into 454 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: the twenty one century America, and it doesn't matter how 455 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: hard they work, they're never going to be able to 456 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: earn enough money to support their family and feed their children. 457 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: They're going to end up using taxpayer funds. So solution 458 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: is not to point fingers of the immigrants you're bad 459 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: because you're using welfare. The solution is to do what 460 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,160 Speaker 1: this bill by Senator Cotton is doing is just letting 461 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,719 Speaker 1: in fewer poorly educated people in the first place, so 462 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: you don't end up with them ending up having to 463 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: be on welfare. Mark one more for you before we 464 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: let you get back to I'm sure what's a very 465 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: busy day at the Center for Immigration Studies. Uh. The 466 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 1: Republicans in Congress are are they? Are they going to 467 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: defect on this one too? After the healthcare tobaccle, this 468 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 1: seems to me to be if you're if you call 469 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,479 Speaker 1: yourself a Republican for a rule of law and limited 470 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: government and you oppose this in the broad strokes, this 471 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: immigration bill, then you're just a phony. I don't know 472 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,160 Speaker 1: what else to say. But do you think they're will 473 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: be opposition? Oh? Of course there were Lindsay Graham, you know, 474 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: surprised those should be the first two words out of 475 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: my mouth. But Lindsay Graham, Senator from South Carolina, who 476 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: was one of the architects of the Gang of Eight bill, 477 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: has already come out saying, no, this is terrible and 478 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: my state's economy would be devastated if this bill passed, 479 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: which is complete malarkey. Whatever you think about the bill. Um, so, yeah, 480 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I think there would be some Republican opposition. 481 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: It's gonna have a steep hill to climb, there's no 482 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,479 Speaker 1: question about it. But I think it's actually, first of all, 483 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: it's two things that could happen. One is it doesn't pass, 484 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: but the but it does start this debate because there's 485 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: almost certainly gonna be hearings on it. It's that high 486 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: profile and so it's you know it Sometimes it takes 487 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: a few sessions of Congress to make progress in a 488 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: big change like that. The other thing is maybe the 489 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: Democrats will be afraid enough that the DOCCA people, you 490 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: know DOCCA, the temporary amnesty that gave well those people 491 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: they're living on borrowed time, you know, and so what 492 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: about a deal giving them a regular green card, which 493 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: I'm not wild about, but look, you gotta do what 494 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: you gotta do in exchange for changing future immigration down 495 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: the road. That might be a good deal in that. 496 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not saying that's gonna happen. Don't go 497 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: and bet your house on that or anything, but there 498 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: is a non zero chance that the bill could pass 499 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: if it had some kind of packaging like that. Marker 500 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: Corey and executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies. 501 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: Go check out c i S dot org and also 502 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: Mark's got a piece up on the National Interest. Mark 503 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: always great to have you, sir. We'll talk to you soon. 504 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: Thank you, by team. We are going to be hitting 505 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: a break here. A lot more to talk about today 506 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: on the show. But what do you think about Trump's 507 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: immigration position? And well, I should say the senators who 508 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: rolled it out today, what do you think about what's 509 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: going on with this immigration bill. Talk about that. I'm 510 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: more We got Tom in Ohio w w V A, 511 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: Hey Tom, what's up? Hi book? You know, I gotta 512 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: tell you. I told your screener I had great reservations 513 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,239 Speaker 1: about this. No, I'm totally against it. I'll tell you why. 514 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: I think the starting point from the great negotiator should 515 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: be and also from the standpoint of just common sense 516 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: and uh a rational thinking, should be a moratorium on 517 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: immigration to see how many people we actually need in 518 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: this country and what skills we really need to import. 519 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: You know, number one, the robotics UH and artificial intelligence. 520 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: In the next fifteen or twenty years, they're really going 521 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: to start hitt and big, and we're gonna be replacing 522 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: a lot of people that are already in this country. 523 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: Where are they going to go to get a better job? 524 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: You know that the people who have been here generation 525 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: after generation. Also this your guests mentioned about getting the Einstein's, 526 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: the Einstein's to me how to stay in their own 527 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: country and help them develop, because what happens is we 528 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,239 Speaker 1: could bring that brain drain here and then we'll end 529 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: up sending them foreign aid and we're putting the military 530 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: in there because their countries are falling apart. Also, we 531 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: need to revise the Civil Rights Act infirmative action. You know, 532 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: we we set that up for discrimination and segregation of 533 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: minorities that we're here generation of generation after generation. They 534 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: include such things as a minority business preferences for business 535 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: loans for government contracts that needs to be revised. And 536 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: countries like Mexico, and not even throw Canada in there, 537 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: in other countries they have a large number of people 538 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: here and in many instances like Mexico illegally well you 539 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: know that they ought to have. There will be a 540 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: moratorium on them for about fifteen or twenty years just 541 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,479 Speaker 1: to balance things out. Well, I'm not gonna say I 542 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: disagree with your idea of stopping immigration. I just think 543 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: that it's gonna be a fight Tom, just to lessen it. 544 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not even sure that a Bublican party 545 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: is gonna go along with the reduction to six hundred 546 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: thousand from a million. I understand that, But the negotiation 547 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: points should have been a moratorium and then you negotiate 548 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: from that. I see what you're saying, Yeah, but but 549 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: but but hold on, I mean that then the the 550 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: chorus of your anti immigrant, You're you're not you Tom, 551 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? The chorus that Trump is 552 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: anti immigrant and racist and uh xenophobic and nativist would 553 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: be much louder, and I think more reasonable people would 554 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: pay attention to it, not necessarily agree that would pay 555 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: attention to it, just based on the Okay, well, now 556 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: we're taking no immigrants, right. I think you could argue 557 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: that trying to get it down to a half a 558 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 1: million and then trying to take it down further from 559 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: there is much more likely than trying to go you know, 560 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: the negotiation is a tricky thing, right, I mean, if 561 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,719 Speaker 1: you show up to somebody, if if somebody offer, you know, 562 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: if if somebody has a house on the market for 563 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: for two d thousand dollars and you show up you're like, 564 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: I'll give you twenty bucks. You're not a good negotiator. 565 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: You're just you're probably insulting them and not getting the house. Right. 566 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: So saying it's starting at zero, I'm not. I'm not 567 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: saying that your your position is is laughable the way 568 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: the twenty dollar offer is, but that would probably be 569 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: too extreme, I think for it to be effective based 570 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: on the political realities of where we are but in principle, 571 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: in terms, I think you're right and that there's gonna 572 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: be h. We've taken in so many immigrants in recent years, 573 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: and the assimilation process needs time to work. And we 574 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: don't even we don't know what the jobs that the 575 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: future gonna be. I mean, part of this is that 576 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: even if we had an efficient government, which we don't, 577 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: that was good at gauging who can contribute to the economy, 578 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: uh and who can't, which we don't, that that's gonna 579 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: be very different in five or ten years. And the 580 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: skills that we need and are looking for will be 581 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: different in five or ten years, and the employment picture 582 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: for this country may be very different in a few years. 583 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: So tom I here he met. She'll tie in a 584 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: good call. Thank you for for giving me a ring. 585 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: I did want to get to, uh, the the best 586 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: part of the Miller Acosta throw down today in the 587 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: West wing this press conference that just so entertaining. I 588 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: mean not just as shouldn't to say it's entertaining, right, 589 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: I mean entertaining me. It's sounding with just hah or something. 590 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: There was a lot of important points that both sides 591 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: were making. Acosta was making the point that the media 592 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: really believes all this elitist claptrap about how this is 593 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: all the all about you're tired, your poor, and you're hungry. 594 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: That's what immigration is supposed to be to this country. 595 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: And Steven Miller is like, that's not what the law 596 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: even says. You're you're not even arguing for a continuation, 597 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: but the law says. Now you're arguing for some fantasy 598 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: land immigration law and don't even seem to be familiar 599 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 1: with what current law that the Democrat Party has done 600 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 1: nothing did nothing in its eight years, including a couple 601 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: of years where it had complete unified party control. Democrat 602 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: control of the House, the Senate, and the presidency under Obama, 603 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: did nothing to change existing immigration law, which does make 604 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: distinctions of all kinds, lots of distinctions. It's not effective 605 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: and it's not enforced properly. But the immigration law that 606 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: we currently have is not supposed to just bring us 607 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: as many UH welfare cases as possible. For example, you 608 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: you're supposed to not be a public charge under existing 609 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 1: immigration law. But anyway, here's the here's the best part 610 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: of the exchange. The Statute of Liberty says, canna be 611 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,839 Speaker 1: your tired, your for your huddled masses you're in free 612 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: doesn't say anything about speaking English or being able to 613 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: uh computer be a computer programmer, and people learn how 614 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: to speak English when they get here. Well, first of all, right, 615 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,800 Speaker 1: now it's a requirement that to be naturalized yet to 616 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: speak English. So the notion that speaking English wouldn't be 617 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,320 Speaker 1: a part of immigration systems would be actually very ahistorical. Secondly, 618 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: I don't want to get off into a whole thing 619 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: about history here, but the Statue of Liberty is a 620 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: symbol of liberty and lightening the world is a symbol 621 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: of American liberty, lighting the world. The poem that you're 622 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: referring to that was added later is not actually part 623 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 1: of the original Statue of Liberty. Yeah, the people refer 624 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: to this, People like Jim Acosta, senior White House correspondent 625 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: for CNN, will refer to, uh, the what is it 626 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: the Emma Lazarus poem and suggest the new Colossus. You 627 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 1: know that that this sonnet written by Ema Lazarus to 628 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: raise money for the Statue of Liberty project. Give me 629 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 1: your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, 630 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 1: the wretched refuse of your teaming shore send these the 631 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: homeless tempest toss to me, I lift my lamp side 632 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: the golden door. Uh. Nice poem, but has nothing to 633 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 1: do with immigration law, because I don't even seem to 634 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: know that or thinks that somehow that's what that's what 635 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 1: immigration is all about in this country. So we're just 636 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: supposed to take anybody, the poorer, the more illiterate, the 637 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: less linguistically capable, at least when it comes to English, 638 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: the better. Is that what the media really believes, They 639 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 1: really think that that's what we should be doing. There 640 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:29,800 Speaker 1: are seven billion, about seven billion people in the world. 641 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: There are three million Americans. If we decide that immigration 642 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 1: policy in this country is really just about trying to 643 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: take as many in need as possible this country, with 644 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 1: the welfare state it already has, and by the way, 645 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: the entitlement state and the welfare state together threatened to 646 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: implode our economy and destroy our finances. You want to 647 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 1: just make this into the world's soup kitchen. I mean, 648 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 1: that's insanity. But yet senior people in the media believe 649 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 1: that the Democrats pretend to believe it, And that's where 650 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: you'll see a lot of this debate go. It'll it'll 651 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 1: turn into well, you know, I'm I'm the most virtuous 652 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: person because I want the most poor, non English speaking 653 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: Third World immigrants possible. Why as an American citizen, why 654 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 1: would I want that? I mean, you know, we we 655 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 1: have we're big hearted people. We want to take in 656 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 1: some refugees here and there, and I get all that, 657 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 1: but we have policies in place to benefit us. That's 658 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 1: what the debate really boils down to. He's holding the 659 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 1: line for America. Buck sex in his back. I think 660 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,760 Speaker 1: we should switch gears for a minute and get into 661 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: a Buck brief. You are now entering the Freedom hut 662 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:46,399 Speaker 1: Tititle Operation Center. All SENSI programs musty caps strictly need 663 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: to know. Team Buck is cleared and ready for the 664 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:56,720 Speaker 1: Buck brief. Trump says US losing Afghan war. Intense meeting 665 00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: with generals. This is the latest breaking news for m NBC. 666 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: Let me give you some of the details, then we'll 667 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,879 Speaker 1: get into the substance. President Donald Trump has become increasingly 668 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: frustrated with his advisers task with crafting a new U 669 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 1: S strategy in Afghanistan, and recently suggested firing the war's 670 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: top military commander. During a tense meeting at the White House. 671 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: During July nineteen meeting, Trump repeatedly suggested that Defense Secretary 672 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: James Maddis and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff 673 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: Joseph Dunford replaced General John Nicholson the command of US 674 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: forces in Afghanistan because he is not winning the war. 675 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 1: Trump has not met Nicholson. The Pentagon has been considering 676 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 1: extending his time in Afghanistan. All right, now, I know 677 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:51,280 Speaker 1: that in certain corners, in the various precincts, well, various 678 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: areas of this country where people think that they know 679 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,840 Speaker 1: a lot about national security, you know, the d C, 680 00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 1: the belt Way, the the foreign policy commentary crew, that 681 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 1: they are automatically going to take a real They're going 682 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,759 Speaker 1: to react to this very negatively because it's Trump, and 683 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: they'll say that this is I don't know, disrespectful, or 684 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: that this just shows what an ignorant barbarian Trump is 685 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: that he would say such a thing like he's going 686 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 1: to fire a general. Keep in mind that Obama fire 687 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: the commanding general in Afghanistan because one of the general's 688 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: more senior people said some unflattering things about Obama, who, 689 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: by the way, knew nothing about war national security when 690 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 1: he became president. But I think that bears repeating. Sometimes 691 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 1: the former president knew nothing about war national security when 692 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 1: he became president. Now I know that Democrats would argue, 693 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: well Trump Trump is no different, and you know he 694 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,959 Speaker 1: But did you hear much about how Obama had zero 695 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: experience and really very very surface only knowledge in terms 696 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: of what was going on around the world, especially when 697 00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:01,760 Speaker 1: you talk about security matters, military matters. But with Trump, 698 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 1: of course, there's much more of a focus on that. 699 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,920 Speaker 1: So there was this meeting. But by the yeah, Obama 700 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 1: fired his general because the guy said some according to 701 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 1: a Rolling Stone article, said some stuff that was not 702 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:18,880 Speaker 1: so great about Obama's commander in chief skills. So Trump 703 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,720 Speaker 1: suggesting that a general should be fired because the general 704 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: is not not winning the war. The general is in 705 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: fact losing the war. Why is that so egregious or 706 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,800 Speaker 1: such a terrible idea. I don't think he's saying fire 707 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,239 Speaker 1: him from the military. He's just saying, should not be 708 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 1: in charge of this theater anymore, should not be running 709 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 1: this war anymore. Um And and maybe it's not even 710 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:42,399 Speaker 1: if And by the way, this is all just based 711 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 1: on the NBC reporting is a meeting from a few 712 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 1: weeks ago. But something needs to change. There has to 713 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: be as I like to say, they have to take 714 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 1: action here that they can't just sit around and pretend 715 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: that things are going well in Afghanistan. I can tell 716 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: you I know Afghanistan well as a country, as a 717 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,719 Speaker 1: national security challenge, an issue, and it's the place I've 718 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,319 Speaker 1: been studying and and I've told you about it for 719 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,360 Speaker 1: I've talk to you about it many times in the past. 720 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 1: But this is not going to get better. We can 721 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,439 Speaker 1: tell ourselves that this war in Afghanistan will just somehow 722 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,759 Speaker 1: fade away. But in fact, the Taliban, as I have 723 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: been discussing with you here on this show for many months, 724 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: is in its strongest position since we topple them with 725 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 1: the help of the Northern Alliance after the September eleventh 726 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: attacks two thousand. That's the truth of what's going on 727 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 1: right now in this country. In America's longest war is 728 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 1: just extending on and on. We just lost two troops 729 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,800 Speaker 1: who were killed in an ambush of a convoy the 730 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 1: last couple of days. We're still taking casualties. You won't 731 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,919 Speaker 1: see much about the US troops who are deployed there 732 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,800 Speaker 1: and the medias seems to have lost into But I 733 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,360 Speaker 1: can tell you this, this statement that came from a 734 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:10,279 Speaker 1: National security spoke a National Security Council spokesperson is not 735 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,160 Speaker 1: encouraging about where this conflict is and where it's going. 736 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,960 Speaker 1: Here's what was said from the from an NSC spokesman, 737 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:22,320 Speaker 1: President's the President's National Security team is developing a comprehensive, 738 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,520 Speaker 1: integrated strategy for South Asia that utilizes all aspects of 739 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 1: our national power to address this complex region. That strategy 740 00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 1: has been worked carefully in the inter agency process, and 741 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,760 Speaker 1: while no decision has been made, the President's team continues 742 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 1: to develop options for him that address threats and opportunities 743 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:46,239 Speaker 1: to America arising from this vital region. That's a lot 744 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,200 Speaker 1: of fancy talk that says nothing. That that is no 745 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,239 Speaker 1: that is no strategy. There's nothing. There is no new 746 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 1: strategy yet. And we've been told now for months that 747 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,200 Speaker 1: a new strategy was forthcoming and that we would find 748 00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,359 Speaker 1: a way to end this war. We got nothing. Maybe 749 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,359 Speaker 1: Trump's people will come up with something, Maybe Trump will 750 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,919 Speaker 1: come up with something himself, either in consultation with them 751 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:09,240 Speaker 1: or just by being Trump. But there is no change 752 00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:14,600 Speaker 1: at all in the posture of the US since so Bam, 753 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 1: I mean since Obama left office and Trump became commander 754 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,520 Speaker 1: in chief. There's really We've got what about eight thousand 755 00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:25,480 Speaker 1: and eight thousand plus US troops on the ground in Afghanistan, 756 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 1: not nearly enough. The general there is saying that he 757 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 1: needs a few thousand more. Do we really think that 758 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,880 Speaker 1: after we've had over a hundred thousand troops during the 759 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:40,680 Speaker 1: Obama administration trying to defeat the Taliban, and now we're 760 00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,600 Speaker 1: talking openly, people will discuss how we need a political 761 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,520 Speaker 1: settlement with the Taliban. We think we're gonna win this war? Now, 762 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,480 Speaker 1: why what will change? What will be different. We're not 763 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:55,440 Speaker 1: gonna outlast the talent ban. We don't have greater will 764 00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,799 Speaker 1: than the Taliban. We don't have greater interest in the 765 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,440 Speaker 1: future of Afghanistan and the element. These are just difficult truths, 766 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,479 Speaker 1: But this is what's going on there. They are not leaving, 767 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,399 Speaker 1: They are not going anywhere. How long do we plan 768 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,520 Speaker 1: to keep troops in Afghanistan? How long do we plan 769 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 1: to keep propping up the Afghan national security forces, their 770 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 1: military and police, paying billions and billions of dollars, providing 771 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,719 Speaker 1: them all kinds of logistical support and all kinds of 772 00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:23,440 Speaker 1: support that we don't even know about, just because we're 773 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,120 Speaker 1: supporting them all over the place, right, I mean, we're 774 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,879 Speaker 1: doing all kinds of stuff. Try to help the Afghans 775 00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:34,879 Speaker 1: defeat the Taliban. But Taliban or a domestic insurgency with 776 00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:38,759 Speaker 1: safe haven in Pakistan, they can cross the Afghan pack border. No, 777 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,359 Speaker 1: they'll receive assistance from the Hakani network, which is just 778 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:47,520 Speaker 1: a really a faction of the Taliban. They'll receive assistance 779 00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:57,960 Speaker 1: from any number of regional actors Iran Pakistan. Now there 780 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,040 Speaker 1: are reports that told you about them. Just laugh this 781 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 1: week that the Russians are providing arms to the Taliban. 782 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,840 Speaker 1: Of course that Russians deny this, But think about this logically, 783 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,120 Speaker 1: why why wouldn't the Russians do that? Sure, maintain some 784 00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:15,680 Speaker 1: level of plausible deniability, but why not see plenty of 785 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:17,120 Speaker 1: reasons for them to do it, and very few for 786 00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,840 Speaker 1: them not to. There were what they were worried that 787 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,839 Speaker 1: we're gonna get They're worried they're gonna get caught. So 788 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,879 Speaker 1: what they'll say, that's not theirs. They have never seen 789 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,120 Speaker 1: the collision the COVID before. I mean, you know it's 790 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:34,600 Speaker 1: not hard, it will not be their problem. So I 791 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,160 Speaker 1: very much think that we need to have an honest 792 00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:42,080 Speaker 1: national conversation about what's going on in Afghanistan and the 793 00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,840 Speaker 1: Trump administration. I think President Trump is looking around. It's like, okay, 794 00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:50,440 Speaker 1: so we have this massive national security advisory complex in place. 795 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,400 Speaker 1: We've got all these people. Their only job is to 796 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,279 Speaker 1: sit around and look at this issue. I was one 797 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:55,840 Speaker 1: of those people to see. I a right. You just 798 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,200 Speaker 1: sit around and look at certain issues and become steeped 799 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,080 Speaker 1: in them as possible, learn as much as you can, 800 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 1: and provide facts that can be very granular or at 801 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,840 Speaker 1: the strategic level, to the policymakers, to the decision makers 802 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,560 Speaker 1: so that they give the best strategic guidance to the 803 00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,359 Speaker 1: war fighter or to those who are in the chain 804 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 1: of command of the war fighter. That's what happens, and 805 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,520 Speaker 1: we've got what to show for months of discussion so far, 806 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,160 Speaker 1: the answer is nothing. I think that the Trump administration 807 00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,399 Speaker 1: for a while has been saying that they don't want 808 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,600 Speaker 1: to give away the playbook. I understand that, but at 809 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,520 Speaker 1: some point people start to think it's not a question 810 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:38,960 Speaker 1: of giving away the playbook, it's there's no new playbook, 811 00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,760 Speaker 1: And if the old playbook hasn't worked in fifteen years, 812 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,440 Speaker 1: why do we think that anything would change. No one 813 00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,359 Speaker 1: wants to be the person to say that we're done 814 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,880 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan. We're gonna have an embassy there and you know, 815 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:57,759 Speaker 1: maybe some very limited advisory, train and assist role like 816 00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,640 Speaker 1: we have another country. It's not like we have in 817 00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,080 Speaker 1: a off in Afghanistan where you've got a major US 818 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,759 Speaker 1: military presence and that's going to be it. No one 819 00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,640 Speaker 1: wants to say it. But I also then pose the 820 00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,759 Speaker 1: question for those who believe that we need to stick 821 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:12,120 Speaker 1: this out, you know, for those who take the John 822 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:16,120 Speaker 1: McCain view, if we have to be there for fifty years, fine, okay, 823 00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,240 Speaker 1: what do we do. Then we're going to send another 824 00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:21,560 Speaker 1: fifty thousand, another hundred thousand troops in there. So what 825 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,200 Speaker 1: so they can take Helman Province, so they can take Kandahar, 826 00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,799 Speaker 1: give it to the Afghan National Police, give it the 827 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:34,640 Speaker 1: Afghan Army. How long before the Taliban retakes it? Year two, 828 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:38,560 Speaker 1: maybe three? And we just keep doing this and doing 829 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,840 Speaker 1: this and doing this there. I have not seen any 830 00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,960 Speaker 1: reason to believe. I've seen no facts presented thus far 831 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,920 Speaker 1: to suggest that we can expect, where we can reasonably 832 00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,399 Speaker 1: expect any different outcome from what's going on in Afghanistan. 833 00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,640 Speaker 1: It's it's time for honesty on this. If there's not 834 00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:00,400 Speaker 1: going to be a change in policy, if we're not 835 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,480 Speaker 1: going to do something differently, than we should just leave. 836 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,600 Speaker 1: And now it doesn't mean everybody leaves, but it means 837 00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,399 Speaker 1: that there will be no new grand plan, no new 838 00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,000 Speaker 1: grand strategy to defeat the Taliban. We are just going 839 00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:17,000 Speaker 1: to let the Afghans figure this out. Fifteen years, folks, 840 00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:24,000 Speaker 1: sixteen years, sorry, sixteen years. When is enough enough? When 841 00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:25,600 Speaker 1: have we decided that we've done all that can be 842 00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:30,000 Speaker 1: done reasonably in that country to help an ally, Yes, 843 00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:37,760 Speaker 1: to eliminate al Qaeda, to remove Afghanistan from the global 844 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:44,080 Speaker 1: launch pads of Jihada's terrorism. But it's it's reached the 845 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,120 Speaker 1: point now where I am waiting to hear something new, 846 00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,520 Speaker 1: something different. If and I'm telling you this right now, 847 00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,000 Speaker 1: if the administration comes out and says we're gonna search 848 00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:55,680 Speaker 1: five thousand troops and our strategy is going to be 849 00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:57,319 Speaker 1: let the Afghans take the lead and we'll be in 850 00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:02,360 Speaker 1: a support role, and it it is just a rehash 851 00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,719 Speaker 1: it's it's just round. You can'd of say around two 852 00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,359 Speaker 1: of us. This is even the two point over version. 853 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:09,480 Speaker 1: This is the you know, the five point o version. 854 00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:14,560 Speaker 1: We've been through this many times. There are realities literally 855 00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,280 Speaker 1: on the ground in Afghanistan. The ground is its own reality, 856 00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,960 Speaker 1: the terrain of Afghanistan, the Hindu Kush mountains coming down 857 00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,319 Speaker 1: through the center of the country like a spine that 858 00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,480 Speaker 1: divides it up. That makes it very difficult to move 859 00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:31,279 Speaker 1: around the country. That makes governance very hard. That makes 860 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:35,200 Speaker 1: infrastructure difficult to build and even harder to maintain, especially 861 00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,920 Speaker 1: with a determined insurgency that knows that destroying infrastructure is 862 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:43,920 Speaker 1: a way to ebb at the influence and morale of 863 00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:46,480 Speaker 1: the government and all those who are hoping for the 864 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:52,600 Speaker 1: central government to succeed. I just don't hear anyone speaking 865 00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,480 Speaker 1: about this in a way that it makes me think 866 00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:59,360 Speaker 1: anything will change, and that Trump was in this meeting 867 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,560 Speaker 1: portedly thinking about firing in general. They need to do 868 00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:05,520 Speaker 1: they need to do something, and it has to be drastic. 869 00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,239 Speaker 1: Action has to be very different from what we've seen 870 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,640 Speaker 1: up at this point. Otherwise, I promise you that this 871 00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:13,520 Speaker 1: will not change, and we are just extent we are 872 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,920 Speaker 1: prolonging the inevitable. We are just extending our time in 873 00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,240 Speaker 1: this country. We will take more losses, we will spend 874 00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:21,360 Speaker 1: more money, and we will get to no different outcome. 875 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,520 Speaker 1: So let's let's be real about this. It's either time 876 00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:27,400 Speaker 1: to go or something new has to happen, and it 877 00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,560 Speaker 1: has to happen soon. And if that means firing a 878 00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,080 Speaker 1: general and a radical shift in strategy, I don't even 879 00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:35,319 Speaker 1: know what it would be, but that's what it has 880 00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,560 Speaker 1: to be the realm of foreign policy. I thought also 881 00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,360 Speaker 1: worth a few moments of our time to think about 882 00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:47,200 Speaker 1: what happened today with the President signing a uh signing 883 00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:52,239 Speaker 1: a bill earlier today that is meant to punish Russia 884 00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:59,080 Speaker 1: for its interference in the presidential election, and President Trump 885 00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,279 Speaker 1: signed so you know, he's he's supposed to be this 886 00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,120 Speaker 1: puppet of Russia, right if you believe the and and 887 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:09,400 Speaker 1: this is even apart from the collusion claims, you'll have 888 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,839 Speaker 1: people in the media telling you, well, they have been 889 00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:16,440 Speaker 1: telling you all the time that Trump is too favorable 890 00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,920 Speaker 1: towards Russia. He's so nice to Putin, or at least 891 00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,720 Speaker 1: says nice things about Putin, and has this strange love 892 00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:30,520 Speaker 1: of all things Kremlin, and yeah, here we are when 893 00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:34,040 Speaker 1: it comes to implementing policy, or when it comes to again, 894 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,680 Speaker 1: what he does, not what he says. The President could 895 00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,880 Speaker 1: have vetoed this. I mean, you could argue for sure 896 00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,440 Speaker 1: that he would have faced a lot of backlash if 897 00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,160 Speaker 1: he had done that, because people say, oh, my gosh, 898 00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,839 Speaker 1: you know that, it's like he's it's like he's Prudent's twin. 899 00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,640 Speaker 1: I mean, they would have completely freaked out about that. Fine, 900 00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:57,839 Speaker 1: I understand that. But he signed this this bill that 901 00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,400 Speaker 1: will give well, it keeps in play some of the 902 00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:07,600 Speaker 1: Obama era sanctions on Russia. It also limits the president's 903 00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:12,280 Speaker 1: ability to do anything here with regard to the sanctions. 904 00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:16,480 Speaker 1: So it specifically says that the president can't go around 905 00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:20,520 Speaker 1: some of this. And I just have to say, um, 906 00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:24,080 Speaker 1: this is going to achieve what exactly I mean. It's 907 00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,799 Speaker 1: being reported by ABC News as President Trump signs bill 908 00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,600 Speaker 1: saying it's clearly unconstitutional in some parts. Well, there there 909 00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:36,720 Speaker 1: are often tensions between what the executive branch, which runs 910 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,799 Speaker 1: foreign policy, can do and what the Congress can do. 911 00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,600 Speaker 1: And with the moment, the Congress starts passing laws that 912 00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:45,879 Speaker 1: are limiting what the executive branch can do in its 913 00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:49,640 Speaker 1: conduct of foreign policies. I think there are they're very 914 00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:55,319 Speaker 1: real constitutional questions that can arise from that. And yet 915 00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,680 Speaker 1: here we are Trump signs it. What's the purpose of 916 00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:06,400 Speaker 1: these Russia sanctions? You'll notice that Democrats have never felt 917 00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:10,520 Speaker 1: so fierce, so bellicost towards Russia, certainly not even including 918 00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:15,600 Speaker 1: the Cold War Soviet era, where the where the Soviets 919 00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:19,600 Speaker 1: were actively trying to subvert and undermine our government on 920 00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,960 Speaker 1: a regular basis and we're threatening nuclear war against us. 921 00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,840 Speaker 1: The Democrats could find excuses for the Soviets, for the 922 00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:31,680 Speaker 1: Russians then, but now, no, no, if you are if 923 00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,360 Speaker 1: you are soft on Russia in any way, and not 924 00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:36,600 Speaker 1: even soft on Russia, if you are not an anti 925 00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:40,440 Speaker 1: Russia hardliner. The Democrats are so obsessed with power that 926 00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:44,520 Speaker 1: because they blame Russia for being out of power in 927 00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:48,360 Speaker 1: this country right now, because they blame Russia for Hillary's loss, 928 00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,799 Speaker 1: they now also force you to be a super hawk 929 00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:57,160 Speaker 1: on all things Russia, or else you are you're a traitor. 930 00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:00,960 Speaker 1: I mean, you are just the worst. And it's amazing 931 00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,880 Speaker 1: to watch this play out. Sanctions on Russia will do 932 00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:09,440 Speaker 1: what exactly and at what point does this become dangerous? 933 00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:13,439 Speaker 1: At at what point are we exacerbating an already tense 934 00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:17,960 Speaker 1: situation without getting any benefit from it. It's easy for 935 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,000 Speaker 1: a lot of the members of Congress right now, I 936 00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:26,520 Speaker 1: feel like they're brave and to feel particularly stalwart because 937 00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:30,759 Speaker 1: this is going along with what the media's gonna say. 938 00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:32,920 Speaker 1: This is a great thing. Do I think that Russia 939 00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:35,040 Speaker 1: does bad things? Of course? Do I think that Russia 940 00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:39,160 Speaker 1: is an aggressor? Yeah, no, more so now than it 941 00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,160 Speaker 1: was during the Obama years though that that's what the 942 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:47,399 Speaker 1: the key shift here is that the Democrats are still 943 00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,600 Speaker 1: obsessed with what Russia did or did not do, depending 944 00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:52,960 Speaker 1: on who you know, who you're listening to, or who 945 00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:57,000 Speaker 1: you believe uh in the election, they just won't let 946 00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,480 Speaker 1: it go. And if that means that they are going 947 00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:03,120 Speaker 1: to be put shing putin further and further away from 948 00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:07,279 Speaker 1: any meaningful cooperation really on any issue, they're willing to 949 00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:11,560 Speaker 1: do it. They will risk our foreign policy, they will 950 00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:15,360 Speaker 1: risk our security in any number of ways. If it 951 00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:20,280 Speaker 1: scratches this itch. They have to just find a way 952 00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:23,479 Speaker 1: to blame someone other than Hillary Clinton for their election laws. 953 00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:28,839 Speaker 1: So yeah, we we passed Russia's sanctions. Okay, great, I 954 00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:33,239 Speaker 1: guess this this is a cause for for what for celebration? 955 00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,919 Speaker 1: Um ABC News reporting. By the way, before Trump signed 956 00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,279 Speaker 1: the bill, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson revealed that neither 957 00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:43,839 Speaker 1: he nor Trump approved of the sanctions, arguing that they 958 00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:47,799 Speaker 1: would hinder the administration's attempts to restore relations with Russia. 959 00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:50,239 Speaker 1: The action by the Congress to put these sanctions in 960 00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,480 Speaker 1: place and the way they did, neither the President nor 961 00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:55,960 Speaker 1: I were very happy about that, Tillerson told reporters yesterday. 962 00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,080 Speaker 1: We were clear that we didn't think it was going 963 00:55:58,080 --> 00:55:59,880 Speaker 1: to be helpful to our efforts. Not. Of course, it's 964 00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:03,320 Speaker 1: not gonna be helpful. It's not gonna change any Russian behavior, 965 00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:05,719 Speaker 1: by the way, I mean, that's that's foolhardy. But you know, 966 00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,160 Speaker 1: there are reports from earlier this week that now Congress 967 00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:15,759 Speaker 1: and people are considering arming Ukraine to fight more against Russia. Uh. 968 00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:19,319 Speaker 1: That's you know, you'll notice that when it comes to Afghanistan, 969 00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,160 Speaker 1: there are reports about Russia giving and Russia's like, no, no no, 970 00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:26,640 Speaker 1: we would never do that. I mean, that's Afghanistan. Ukraine 971 00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:28,960 Speaker 1: is right on Russia's door staff and is considered a 972 00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:33,120 Speaker 1: very important country to the Russians for a whole bunch 973 00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:34,640 Speaker 1: of reasons that I'm trying to go and do. Now 974 00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,680 Speaker 1: We're going to start arming the Ukrainians. You know, at 975 00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:41,719 Speaker 1: some point it is worth asking ourselves will we go 976 00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:45,640 Speaker 1: to war with RuSHA over Ukraine? Because I wouldn't. But 977 00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:47,560 Speaker 1: I'm starting to feel like the Democrats at least want 978 00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:50,359 Speaker 1: to pretend that they would, and even the pretense of 979 00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:56,360 Speaker 1: that is dangerous. Now, um, let's uh get into something 980 00:56:56,360 --> 00:57:01,240 Speaker 1: that I saw last night on Tucker Carlson's over on Fox. 981 00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:04,480 Speaker 1: So there's this guy who's on who is from the 982 00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,160 Speaker 1: He's a leader of the movement for California to Succeed, 983 00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:13,440 Speaker 1: sorry to Seceed from the US, and he said something 984 00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:16,440 Speaker 1: that that Tucker sees on right away. It was very interesting. 985 00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:21,959 Speaker 1: I think it's a much more widespread belief then many 986 00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,800 Speaker 1: people realize on the left, and that is that the 987 00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:30,160 Speaker 1: UH punishing of the middle class that the Democrats are 988 00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:34,160 Speaker 1: constantly engaged in, That the the flight from many of 989 00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:38,880 Speaker 1: these urban areas that just working people have to engage 990 00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:42,320 Speaker 1: in because they can't pay the ridiculous taxes, they don't 991 00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:46,480 Speaker 1: want to deal with the UH services that are just 992 00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,240 Speaker 1: bad and low quality. So they the working I don't 993 00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:53,240 Speaker 1: like the term middle class, just just the earning class. 994 00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:55,720 Speaker 1: People that work, that have jobs, that are trying to 995 00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:57,880 Speaker 1: pay their bills, that are trying to do their best 996 00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:05,240 Speaker 1: to support themselves and their families. Um, they don't get 997 00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,720 Speaker 1: much attention from Democrats. All the Democrats talk about them 998 00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:11,480 Speaker 1: a lot. Their policies don't really benefit them, and in fact, 999 00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:17,760 Speaker 1: Democrats have a certain degree of contempt for the middle 1000 00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:19,960 Speaker 1: class if you don't fall into one of the protected 1001 00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:23,480 Speaker 1: categories that Democrats are always trying to come up with 1002 00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:28,240 Speaker 1: new ways to capitalize on them for political reasons. Democrats 1003 00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:29,840 Speaker 1: don't have all that much use for you because they 1004 00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:31,560 Speaker 1: don't have that much use for them. They don't really 1005 00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:34,080 Speaker 1: care about them, and they don't mind if the policies 1006 00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:39,200 Speaker 1: that they push are destructive to those people. So you 1007 00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:42,320 Speaker 1: get discussions like this one from last night on Tucker 1008 00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:46,880 Speaker 1: Show in regards to middle class leaving. Uh, that's actually 1009 00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,600 Speaker 1: a good thing. Um, we we need we need these 1010 00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,120 Speaker 1: spots opened up for the new wave of immigrants to 1011 00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:54,040 Speaker 1: come up. It's what we do. We're exporting our middle 1012 00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:55,640 Speaker 1: class to the United States. You guys should be thanking 1013 00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:57,440 Speaker 1: us for that. Not only that, you know, when our 1014 00:58:57,440 --> 00:58:59,760 Speaker 1: middle class does move out to Texas and to call 1015 00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:03,360 Speaker 1: a otto, they're taking our values out to the United States. 1016 00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:09,240 Speaker 1: They need to make room for a new wave of immigrants. 1017 00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:14,560 Speaker 1: M hmm. That's that's quite a quite a statement, isn't it. 1018 00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:16,720 Speaker 1: That you're a national TV you're going to say that. 1019 00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:20,720 Speaker 1: The Democrats, it's it's amazing that they haven't yet figured 1020 00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:24,560 Speaker 1: out that what led to Trump is um they haven't 1021 00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,760 Speaker 1: dealt with it at all. They've done nothing to make 1022 00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:30,320 Speaker 1: up for their deficit with people, not just in the 1023 00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:36,400 Speaker 1: key states of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan where Hillary losing 1024 00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:38,600 Speaker 1: was such a shock to Democrats and of course was 1025 00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:42,840 Speaker 1: decisive in the election. Or maybe it was Russia, but no, 1026 00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:46,160 Speaker 1: it was that Hillary didn't campaign in the Midwest and 1027 00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:49,160 Speaker 1: was arrogant. It was a bad candidate and was entitled. 1028 00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:51,480 Speaker 1: And I could go, ah, why you shall mean? But 1029 00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:54,480 Speaker 1: we'll talk about her another time. We'll have to revisit 1030 00:59:55,200 --> 01:00:00,240 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton's book What Happened? That'll be fun. Um wish 1031 01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:02,840 Speaker 1: I should let's create like a drop for any time 1032 01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:04,560 Speaker 1: we're not really sure what's going on, just have Hillary 1033 01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:09,800 Speaker 1: appear what happened. That's her book. Uh So you have 1034 01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:11,680 Speaker 1: this guy going out there saying that people need to 1035 01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:15,200 Speaker 1: make room for a new new wave of immigrants. There 1036 01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:20,120 Speaker 1: is a a cultural and it's very widespread on the 1037 01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:23,680 Speaker 1: coasts and in the major cities, in the blue strongholds 1038 01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:28,320 Speaker 1: across the country. There is just this this contempt for 1039 01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:32,280 Speaker 1: of course traditional values, but there's a contempt for people 1040 01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:37,600 Speaker 1: who are you're not looking to be overly politicized, aren't 1041 01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:40,880 Speaker 1: progressive in their views, just want to you know, want 1042 01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:44,320 Speaker 1: to fair days, pay for you know, a good day's work, 1043 01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,680 Speaker 1: and want to go about their lives and not be 1044 01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:50,720 Speaker 1: harassed and not be threatened and not be talked down to. 1045 01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:56,120 Speaker 1: And the Democrats are so condescending towards them, and they 1046 01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:58,600 Speaker 1: can't fix it yet they they haven't been able to 1047 01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,520 Speaker 1: fix it. They haven't been able to figure out why 1048 01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:06,640 Speaker 1: they have this disconnect and whenever they say this stuff 1049 01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,040 Speaker 1: about how immigrants do the jobs Americans won't do. I mean, 1050 01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:12,560 Speaker 1: this all ties together, right, It syncs up with what 1051 01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:14,480 Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier on the show, which is 1052 01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:18,560 Speaker 1: this skills based immigration bill. We've been told all this 1053 01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:20,880 Speaker 1: stuff for a long time about immigration. That's not true. 1054 01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:25,680 Speaker 1: And yet the moment that we start to revisit the 1055 01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:30,360 Speaker 1: issue of what our immigration laws actually say, they shout, 1056 01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:32,680 Speaker 1: you know, the Democrats will shout you down and say, oh, 1057 01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:34,680 Speaker 1: you're so horrible, You're so racist. What are you gonna 1058 01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:36,560 Speaker 1: do about these people that want to come into this country? 1059 01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:40,800 Speaker 1: They need us to say, well, are they better able 1060 01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:43,400 Speaker 1: to compete in the US economy or are they better 1061 01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:48,120 Speaker 1: able to contribute than Americans on average who were born here, 1062 01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,040 Speaker 1: Because if that's the case, wouldn't they be fine where 1063 01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:55,160 Speaker 1: they're coming. Why are they so desperate to come into America? Then? Oh, 1064 01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:58,080 Speaker 1: because they you know, in their home coin. And I 1065 01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:00,000 Speaker 1: know the answer to be, well, in their home country, 1066 01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:03,520 Speaker 1: there's corruption, and there's all this other stuff. Okay, well 1067 01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:05,000 Speaker 1: there are other kinds. I mean, there are plenty of 1068 01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,920 Speaker 1: other places to where you can apply to be an immigrant. 1069 01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:11,280 Speaker 1: You if you have such great skills, and the arguments 1070 01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:15,000 Speaker 1: just all collapse. Right If the jobs that Americans won't do, 1071 01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:19,160 Speaker 1: our jobs that require skills and that contribute so much 1072 01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:22,960 Speaker 1: to the economy, well, I guess we should just bring 1073 01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:26,160 Speaker 1: in an endless amount of immigrants. Right. Well if and 1074 01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:28,240 Speaker 1: I saw this today, by the way, on Twitter, about 1075 01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:31,840 Speaker 1: growth and about immigrants are so necessary for growth. If 1076 01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:34,360 Speaker 1: more immigrants means more economic growth, then we shouldn't take 1077 01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:36,880 Speaker 1: in a million, we should take in ten million. But 1078 01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,320 Speaker 1: why is ten million too many? Why is that a problem? 1079 01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:42,439 Speaker 1: Why does that begin to feel like maybe that's too much? 1080 01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:46,360 Speaker 1: I mean, you get the left has no answer for 1081 01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:48,400 Speaker 1: that right now that I don't know. I get some 1082 01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:50,000 Speaker 1: on the left, there are some, for sure, and there's 1083 01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:55,400 Speaker 1: even some just smarmy libertarians. Yeah, they're out there who 1084 01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:59,720 Speaker 1: will say that we should be open borders, that ten million, 1085 01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:02,000 Speaker 1: a hunt, a million, a billion, doesn't matter, it's all 1086 01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:06,240 Speaker 1: it's all great, it's all great, And they don't seem 1087 01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:09,680 Speaker 1: to get it that there's a resentment from Americans at 1088 01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:13,240 Speaker 1: that kind of thinking. And the resentment is not bad, 1089 01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:16,120 Speaker 1: it's not big at it. It's completely understandable. That actually 1090 01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:20,440 Speaker 1: makes sense. Special treat today and in studio with me 1091 01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:23,000 Speaker 1: here in New York City. No less, the Freedom Hunt 1092 01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:25,800 Speaker 1: has Freedom Hunt has room for three, which is very exciting. 1093 01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:29,040 Speaker 1: We've got Guy Benson and Mary Katherine Ham with me 1094 01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:32,200 Speaker 1: now to discuss their book. End of discussion, which I 1095 01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:35,160 Speaker 1: was an early adopter of this book because two years 1096 01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:36,880 Speaker 1: ago we had them on the show to talk about it. 1097 01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:40,440 Speaker 1: But it's new and improved with a new chapter on Trump. 1098 01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:43,160 Speaker 1: We've got Guy Benson, political editor for town hall dot com, 1099 01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:46,680 Speaker 1: Fox News contributor Mary Katherine Ham with The Federalist, a 1100 01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,960 Speaker 1: site that I love, by the way, and CNN CNN. 1101 01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:53,320 Speaker 1: So let's talk a bit about Let's talk a bit 1102 01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:56,840 Speaker 1: about your book. End of discussion. It's new, it's exciting. 1103 01:03:57,080 --> 01:03:58,560 Speaker 1: Guy will start with you don't get to Mary, We'll 1104 01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:00,760 Speaker 1: get to whatever else you want. Well, I would just 1105 01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:03,600 Speaker 1: say when we did like deja vu here, because we 1106 01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:06,439 Speaker 1: did this interview two years ago about the original edition 1107 01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,320 Speaker 1: of the book, which is about how the left is 1108 01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:11,360 Speaker 1: shutting down debate in America and trying to disqualify people 1109 01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:14,200 Speaker 1: who disagree rather than actually debate them on any substance. 1110 01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:17,800 Speaker 1: And one week after the book came out, we were 1111 01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:20,760 Speaker 1: on our book tour. We were here in Manhattan watching 1112 01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:23,880 Speaker 1: this man come down an escalator and announced that he 1113 01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:27,280 Speaker 1: was running for president. And here we are these many 1114 01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:30,880 Speaker 1: months later, and he is the President United States, Donald Trump. 1115 01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:34,280 Speaker 1: And we sort of felt like, between Donald Trump getting 1116 01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:38,600 Speaker 1: elected president and with the city of Berkeley, California, on fire, 1117 01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:42,920 Speaker 1: maybe we should revisit the topic here and put out 1118 01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:46,600 Speaker 1: a paperback edition of End of Discussion with a Trump chapter. 1119 01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:49,360 Speaker 1: Because I don't want to brag too much. What we 1120 01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:51,400 Speaker 1: kind of called it like this, This book was ahead 1121 01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:53,920 Speaker 1: of its time. In fact, thought about the the l 1122 01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:55,880 Speaker 1: A Times that Oh yeah, someone for the Only Times 1123 01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:58,160 Speaker 1: of contacted me and said, hey, you've just seen this. 1124 01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:01,360 Speaker 1: Really it's really relevant. Book had just come out and said, oh, 1125 01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:03,240 Speaker 1: it's two years old. There's a paperback coming, so we 1126 01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:06,200 Speaker 1: can I can get you something soon. Um. But yeah, 1127 01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:08,560 Speaker 1: this is this is an ongoing problem and something that 1128 01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:10,440 Speaker 1: when we were writing the book, we thought, you know, 1129 01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:13,880 Speaker 1: this sort of weaponized PC culture that is shutting people 1130 01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:16,600 Speaker 1: down and shutting them up is going to lead to 1131 01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:20,200 Speaker 1: a backlash. We did not call that the backlash would 1132 01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:22,960 Speaker 1: be President Donald Trump, but that is part of the 1133 01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:25,240 Speaker 1: story of how he became president. A bunch of people 1134 01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:29,000 Speaker 1: felt like they couldn't possibly be good enough to suit 1135 01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:33,680 Speaker 1: the liberal betters who tell them these things, and they 1136 01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:37,520 Speaker 1: therefore hired a bully of their own to fight that fight. Uh. 1137 01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:40,640 Speaker 1: And so that's where we are. And as we note 1138 01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:42,360 Speaker 1: in the book, the left is taking it really in 1139 01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:45,920 Speaker 1: stride and re reevaluating how they do things, and so 1140 01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:50,320 Speaker 1: we're just kidding. No. But but the more we've seen 1141 01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:53,959 Speaker 1: about why people voted for Trump, I think initially there 1142 01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:56,600 Speaker 1: was this sense that there were a lot of complicated 1143 01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:59,800 Speaker 1: economic reasons for it, and and and there are certainly 1144 01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:02,760 Speaker 1: some of those, but also the cultural aspect of this, 1145 01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:06,400 Speaker 1: and the cultural backlashes you said, or or the the 1146 01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:08,840 Speaker 1: sense of the pendulum going back to the other side. 1147 01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:12,440 Speaker 1: All of the recent polling research stretching back in recent 1148 01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:16,360 Speaker 1: months has shown that that's really a prime motivator here 1149 01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:19,280 Speaker 1: for Trump ooters and has been all along. And the 1150 01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:21,800 Speaker 1: thing Buck and you know because you've spoken with them 1151 01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:24,800 Speaker 1: over the last year and a half two years. When 1152 01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:27,680 Speaker 1: you speak to a lot of Trump supporters who are conservatives, 1153 01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:31,640 Speaker 1: they are willing to overlook character issues, they are willing 1154 01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:35,480 Speaker 1: to overlook temperamental issues. They are willing to overlook policy 1155 01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:40,240 Speaker 1: and ideological issues because the guy fights the other side 1156 01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:43,600 Speaker 1: and fights dirty and fights hard. And there's a lot 1157 01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:45,320 Speaker 1: of people on the right who are like, you've been 1158 01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:50,280 Speaker 1: bullying us culturally for years now. We want someone who's 1159 01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:53,400 Speaker 1: going to punch back. We're willing to subordinate those concerns 1160 01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:57,960 Speaker 1: because this guy is doing what we need in their opinion, 1161 01:06:58,280 --> 01:06:59,960 Speaker 1: And one of the things that we're sort of talking 1162 01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:02,200 Speaker 1: to our friends on the left about is, like you, guys, 1163 01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:04,520 Speaker 1: we told you about it two years in the book. 1164 01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:08,840 Speaker 1: There's a difference between convincing people to shut up and 1165 01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:12,720 Speaker 1: actually convincing people of things. And the left has been 1166 01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:15,280 Speaker 1: pretty good at getting people nervous to say what they 1167 01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:19,560 Speaker 1: really believe, but very clearly not convincing people. Because Donald Trump, 1168 01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:22,480 Speaker 1: a lot of people went in their voting booth and decided, Nope, 1169 01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:24,840 Speaker 1: this is the guy for me, and now he's president. 1170 01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:27,480 Speaker 1: We're speaking of Mary Catherine Hammond Guy Benson here in 1171 01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,520 Speaker 1: the Freedom Hut today about their book End of Discussion, 1172 01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:34,320 Speaker 1: how the left outrage industry shuts down debate, manipulates voters, 1173 01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:36,840 Speaker 1: and makes America less free and fun. They have an 1174 01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:41,680 Speaker 1: updated addition in paperback. Now, Mary Catherine, has the Trump 1175 01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:45,440 Speaker 1: phenomenon been an improvement over some of what you talk 1176 01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:47,880 Speaker 1: about in End of Discussion? Or is this just another 1177 01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:51,120 Speaker 1: version of now people wanted to shut down the other side? Right, 1178 01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:53,480 Speaker 1: So this is something we address, and we talked about 1179 01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:56,560 Speaker 1: how Donald Trump is sort of equal parts disease and cure. Well, 1180 01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:59,480 Speaker 1: he's creating his own outrages all the time. That is 1181 01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:01,560 Speaker 1: part of how he does business and it's part of 1182 01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:03,440 Speaker 1: what has been effective for him. And one of the 1183 01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:06,720 Speaker 1: things we argue is that I totally understand why people 1184 01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:10,080 Speaker 1: wanted to vote for Donald Trump and that they wanted 1185 01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:12,240 Speaker 1: this fighter, and that that fight needs to be waged. 1186 01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:14,520 Speaker 1: There is another part of this where we are you 1187 01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:16,599 Speaker 1: and have always an end of discussion and in our 1188 01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:19,439 Speaker 1: lives that we don't want to ratchet this up at 1189 01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:22,200 Speaker 1: every turn with the Left, partly because they control so 1190 01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:25,679 Speaker 1: many levels of level levers of culture that they will 1191 01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:29,800 Speaker 1: win the outrage battle. And the other reason is it's 1192 01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:33,160 Speaker 1: not a good way to live life. It's really unfun. 1193 01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:36,680 Speaker 1: It really doesn't make the best of freedom when you're 1194 01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:39,639 Speaker 1: having to be constantly offended or pretend to be constantly 1195 01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:41,960 Speaker 1: offended on behalf of whatever team you're on. I live 1196 01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:43,840 Speaker 1: in Manhattan, I grew up here. I could tell you that, 1197 01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:45,280 Speaker 1: and I know you deal with the same thing all 1198 01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:47,000 Speaker 1: the time d C and d C, right, so it's 1199 01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:49,640 Speaker 1: probably although everyone in d C speaks about politics all 1200 01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:52,720 Speaker 1: the time, I guess, but here, yeah, here, in me an, 1201 01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:54,360 Speaker 1: at least people like well, you know, don't you get 1202 01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:56,200 Speaker 1: tired of talking about politics at work? And then and 1203 01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:58,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, well, there's no outside of because I don't 1204 01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:00,800 Speaker 1: that doesn't really and lets someone with me. Yeah, you know, 1205 01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:02,680 Speaker 1: people like, oh, you do a radio show, what do 1206 01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:05,519 Speaker 1: you think about Trump? I'm like, it's getting late, So 1207 01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:08,799 Speaker 1: I try to avoid I try to avoid the casual 1208 01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:14,000 Speaker 1: political yeah with strangers. But speaking about the personal aspects 1209 01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:17,240 Speaker 1: of this, I'm assuming both Guy and Mary, as you've 1210 01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:20,720 Speaker 1: gone around, perhaps even to talk about your book, end 1211 01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:23,720 Speaker 1: of discussion, you've probably come up against people who have 1212 01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:26,200 Speaker 1: wanted to end the discussion, who have told you that 1213 01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:29,120 Speaker 1: you are right wing fascist, Trump lovers or maybe Trump 1214 01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:33,240 Speaker 1: haters combination thereof. How has that been both of those things? 1215 01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:36,719 Speaker 1: Enjoy it from like just both, Yeah, it's in coming. 1216 01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:39,280 Speaker 1: The thing is, we really go after the left much 1217 01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:41,439 Speaker 1: harder in the book because of the reason we think 1218 01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:45,080 Speaker 1: that they are primarily responsible for this phenomenon, particularly on 1219 01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:48,720 Speaker 1: college campus. Have you guys been protested on campuses or 1220 01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:50,400 Speaker 1: have you got any of that? And didn't you get 1221 01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:53,120 Speaker 1: into politicon recently where people trying to heckle you. It 1222 01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:56,080 Speaker 1: was it was mostly and culter, but I was on 1223 01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:58,479 Speaker 1: stage as well, and this is a free speech panel. 1224 01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:01,639 Speaker 1: Free speech panel. The Instant College Republicans had to get 1225 01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:04,919 Speaker 1: extra security for us because we were deemed controversial speakers 1226 01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:08,040 Speaker 1: by the university. UM. It ended up being fine. But 1227 01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:10,479 Speaker 1: it's just it's it's ludicrous. But the problem is gonna 1228 01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:13,360 Speaker 1: make is instantly. They're not gonna stop shaking their martiniz 1229 01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:15,640 Speaker 1: long enough to actually heckle you guys. I could say it. 1230 01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:18,919 Speaker 1: I've spent time down there. Some of these elite schools 1231 01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:22,080 Speaker 1: have pretty radical strain. Princeton isn't necessarily one of them, 1232 01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:24,400 Speaker 1: although they also employed Cornell. You weren't a brown. I 1233 01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:27,160 Speaker 1: mean there were people walking around like naked hippies or something. 1234 01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:29,559 Speaker 1: And that's but but we look forward to that speaking 1235 01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:33,920 Speaker 1: please by all means. Uh So, Academia is controlled by 1236 01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:35,880 Speaker 1: the left, the media is controlled mostly by the left. 1237 01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:38,839 Speaker 1: Hollywood is controlled by the left. So for those reasons, 1238 01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:42,320 Speaker 1: the left is the worst perpetrator of this stuff. But 1239 01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:46,000 Speaker 1: as we are seeing, there is a strong element of 1240 01:10:46,040 --> 01:10:48,519 Speaker 1: this on the right. There is an impulse to silence, 1241 01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:51,600 Speaker 1: there's an impulse to shut down and call names. And 1242 01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:53,720 Speaker 1: there was a poll just last week. You go of 1243 01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:58,240 Speaker 1: economist a plurality of Republicans said that the courts should 1244 01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:01,599 Speaker 1: be allowed to shut down biased media outlets like that 1245 01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:05,240 Speaker 1: is bonkers and scary, and that's our side. So we're 1246 01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:07,720 Speaker 1: against any of that. We just think the left is 1247 01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:10,519 Speaker 1: more effective at the silencing, which is why we're coming 1248 01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:13,160 Speaker 1: after them, but we should guard against it on our 1249 01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:16,280 Speaker 1: side too. So, Mary Catherine, you are seeing people on 1250 01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:20,000 Speaker 1: on the right and UH and polling, and also I 1251 01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:23,519 Speaker 1: suppose just across the board, you're coming across people that 1252 01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:25,519 Speaker 1: you talk to who think that they should be able 1253 01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:28,120 Speaker 1: to do what the left does. That's very troubling, right well, 1254 01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:32,759 Speaker 1: and that's what we sort of attempt to discourage because, Uh, 1255 01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:34,880 Speaker 1: I don't want to live life like they do, like 1256 01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,559 Speaker 1: going to the grocery store and finding a pasta that 1257 01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:41,679 Speaker 1: offends me because someone on the board supported some political 1258 01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:43,240 Speaker 1: thing I don't agree with. I don't want to live 1259 01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:45,960 Speaker 1: that life. I just want to eat pasta, a lot 1260 01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:49,160 Speaker 1: of it um. And so I think we should be 1261 01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:51,439 Speaker 1: cautious about that because I don't think it's a game 1262 01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:53,760 Speaker 1: that we're going to win. And so what we try 1263 01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:55,800 Speaker 1: to do in the way we wrote into discussion is 1264 01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:57,640 Speaker 1: that it does go after the left, and it is 1265 01:11:57,680 --> 01:11:59,880 Speaker 1: a book that the right will enjoy. But it's also 1266 01:11:59,880 --> 01:12:01,559 Speaker 1: a book you can hand to your liberal sister in 1267 01:12:01,640 --> 01:12:03,640 Speaker 1: law and she's not going to hate you for it. 1268 01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:07,360 Speaker 1: Because we need some of those folks to understand what's 1269 01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:09,120 Speaker 1: going on here in that the shutting down of speech, 1270 01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:12,960 Speaker 1: particularly on college campuses and its most gross form UH 1271 01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:15,759 Speaker 1: is bad for America, and it's bad for talking to people. 1272 01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:19,439 Speaker 1: It's bad for politics and relationships and all of this um. 1273 01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:21,479 Speaker 1: And so we attempt to bring some of those folks 1274 01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:23,920 Speaker 1: to understand this and someone we've gotten some pretty rave 1275 01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:26,600 Speaker 1: Amazon reviews through the years. Yes, so we actually have 1276 01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:29,280 Speaker 1: gotten some good reviews from left of center folks who 1277 01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:31,920 Speaker 1: read the book. One guy in particular on Amazon, like 1278 01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:36,240 Speaker 1: Jim from Iowa or something raved Benson and him are 1279 01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:39,760 Speaker 1: not monsters, which we thought. We thought about putting that 1280 01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:43,680 Speaker 1: on the cover of the of the paperback. I was 1281 01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:45,519 Speaker 1: I was always jealous. I thought it was the greatest. 1282 01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:47,720 Speaker 1: The greatest book cover quote ever I think was on 1283 01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:50,280 Speaker 1: Mark Stein's America alone, that he had one of the 1284 01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:52,680 Speaker 1: Saudi Royal families saying like this book is trash and 1285 01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:57,400 Speaker 1: it's correct. Yeah, good time. So sometimes that's that's a 1286 01:12:57,439 --> 01:12:59,720 Speaker 1: good way to go. But I have been hearing and 1287 01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:03,599 Speaker 1: eating fabulous things about the book, So congrats you guys. 1288 01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:06,400 Speaker 1: The paperback is out now we have an updated expanded 1289 01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:10,120 Speaker 1: edition including some Trump stuff, which is great. End of 1290 01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:13,479 Speaker 1: discussion is the book? Mary, Katherine Ham and Guy Benson 1291 01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:16,560 Speaker 1: are the authors, Amazon and fun bookstores everywhere? Team? Is 1292 01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:20,520 Speaker 1: that right? Right? And a discussion dot com. It's all there, fantastic, 1293 01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:22,080 Speaker 1: And thank you so much for coming to actually hang 1294 01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:27,160 Speaker 1: out down here in our tribes. Sweet is more spacious 1295 01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:30,120 Speaker 1: than my apartment I can tell you about. Thanks so much, guys. 1296 01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:37,280 Speaker 1: Thank you. Should our state Department, which you and I 1297 01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:40,479 Speaker 1: pay for with our taxes. Let's just all say that 1298 01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:42,200 Speaker 1: right up front and keep it in mind as we 1299 01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:46,280 Speaker 1: go forward this discussion. Should our State Department be promoting 1300 01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:52,320 Speaker 1: democracy around the world? Is that in fact a necessary 1301 01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:56,439 Speaker 1: component of US strategy visa V dealing with the rest 1302 01:13:56,439 --> 01:14:00,479 Speaker 1: of the world and our relationships on the global stage? 1303 01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:03,680 Speaker 1: Now I know that for the journalists who reported on 1304 01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:06,960 Speaker 1: this in the last couple of days, including the Washington Post, 1305 01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:12,240 Speaker 1: which originally broke the story, this is just further evidence 1306 01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:16,959 Speaker 1: for them, at least of the amateurism of Rex Tillerson 1307 01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:21,679 Speaker 1: in foreign affairs, and of course of the barbarous nature 1308 01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:26,839 Speaker 1: of Donald Trump and his UH top people that they reject. 1309 01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:31,240 Speaker 1: One has been longstanding State Department policy and and a 1310 01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:33,519 Speaker 1: mission statement really from within state that we are going 1311 01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:38,080 Speaker 1: to export democracy and democratic principles all over the world. 1312 01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:41,040 Speaker 1: And I understand that we often refer to our own 1313 01:14:41,080 --> 01:14:44,600 Speaker 1: country as a democracy, even though of course technically it 1314 01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:50,240 Speaker 1: is a republic, but democratic principles ideas of the people 1315 01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:54,160 Speaker 1: voting for their representatives and that being a necessary step 1316 01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:59,200 Speaker 1: for the legitimacy of a state. UH, those are those 1317 01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:02,040 Speaker 1: are good ideas, to be sure, but do we really 1318 01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:03,960 Speaker 1: want to support them all over the world. Now you 1319 01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:07,360 Speaker 1: get into a position of having to look at the 1320 01:15:07,400 --> 01:15:10,799 Speaker 1: world as it is, not as we wish it to be. 1321 01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:18,360 Speaker 1: Let me explain, for example, when the tyrant Mubarak of Egypt, 1322 01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:22,360 Speaker 1: who was from our perspective at least a benevolent tyrant, 1323 01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:25,479 Speaker 1: when he was kicked out of office and thrown into prison, 1324 01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:27,960 Speaker 1: and when there was a coup and then there were 1325 01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:33,800 Speaker 1: elections afterwards, the Muslim brotherhood won. When you have elections 1326 01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:40,320 Speaker 1: in Gaza by Palestinians, hamas wins. If you were to 1327 01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:45,040 Speaker 1: have elections in Saudi Arabia, I assure you, which you 1328 01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:47,400 Speaker 1: have not ever had. But if you ever did have 1329 01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:51,360 Speaker 1: elections in Saudi Arabia, I assure you, a hardline Islamist 1330 01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:56,200 Speaker 1: party would win. So we have to look now and say, 1331 01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:59,519 Speaker 1: is it always the case that we want to not 1332 01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:02,240 Speaker 1: just ex for the principles of democracy as an idea, 1333 01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:06,599 Speaker 1: but to support democratic institutions all over the world always 1334 01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:12,280 Speaker 1: and at all times for the purposes of consistency, for 1335 01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:15,360 Speaker 1: being on the same page all the time, and for 1336 01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:20,160 Speaker 1: not looking like we are in any way being hypocritical. Sure, 1337 01:16:20,720 --> 01:16:22,960 Speaker 1: we would like to believe we would like to think 1338 01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:25,080 Speaker 1: that America's role in the world, Well, I should say 1339 01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:30,880 Speaker 1: that the State Department specifically, are diplomats, our pinstriped policy wanks, 1340 01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:35,400 Speaker 1: traveling all over the world, sharing their thoughts on stuff 1341 01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:39,360 Speaker 1: um that we would like to think that they could 1342 01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:45,479 Speaker 1: talk about the glories of democracy without necessarily harming our 1343 01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:50,880 Speaker 1: immediate national security and political interests abroad. But as I 1344 01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:52,599 Speaker 1: was able to just come up with from the top 1345 01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:56,400 Speaker 1: of my head, it's just not always the case. And 1346 01:16:56,840 --> 01:17:00,120 Speaker 1: part of I think the legacy of the Arab Spring 1347 01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:04,080 Speaker 1: is that in countries where you don't have a population 1348 01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:08,040 Speaker 1: that is uh, well, a majority of the population I 1349 01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:12,840 Speaker 1: should I should say, believes in secular rule and believes 1350 01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:16,000 Speaker 1: in what we consider to be basic human rights and freedoms. 1351 01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:19,439 Speaker 1: Democracy just becomes its own form of tyranny. In fact, 1352 01:17:19,479 --> 01:17:24,559 Speaker 1: if you go back to Plato's The Republic, you will 1353 01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:27,760 Speaker 1: recall that the worst form of government of all governments 1354 01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:31,439 Speaker 1: is ruled by the mob o colocracy, that in fact, 1355 01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:34,840 Speaker 1: a singular tyrant, a single tyrant, one person making all 1356 01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:39,360 Speaker 1: the decisions, one person in charge. Maybe unjust, may be 1357 01:17:40,040 --> 01:17:43,280 Speaker 1: violent and vicious, but at least stuff will get done. 1358 01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:47,559 Speaker 1: Whereas the mob from the street that comes together and 1359 01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:50,160 Speaker 1: sees his power, and even if it does through, does 1360 01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:54,280 Speaker 1: so through democratic means. Keep in mind Hitler. Keep in 1361 01:17:54,280 --> 01:17:58,120 Speaker 1: mind Hitler was elected democratically. I could go through any 1362 01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:00,799 Speaker 1: number of historical cases where you'd say, hold on a second, 1363 01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:04,160 Speaker 1: Nicholas Maduro in Venezuela, who I'll be talking to you 1364 01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:08,839 Speaker 1: about in just a moment, elected democratically. So the outcome 1365 01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:12,240 Speaker 1: is certainly not assured just because people can vote. As 1366 01:18:12,280 --> 01:18:16,639 Speaker 1: we know, there can be popular mass delusions, and there 1367 01:18:16,680 --> 01:18:19,400 Speaker 1: can be moments in time when there's really a form 1368 01:18:19,439 --> 01:18:23,519 Speaker 1: of mass psychosis that overtakes a society, and of course 1369 01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:26,120 Speaker 1: is what democrats think is happening right now, I should note, 1370 01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:29,960 Speaker 1: but that it can overtake a society and otherwise sane 1371 01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:33,920 Speaker 1: and rational people are all of a sudden making very 1372 01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:38,640 Speaker 1: imprudent decisions about who they give power to. But democracy 1373 01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:41,639 Speaker 1: promotion as a State Department mission, which I should note 1374 01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:44,760 Speaker 1: they have not officially abandoned it, but it's now up 1375 01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:47,960 Speaker 1: for discussion because there's this internal memo that the Washington 1376 01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:51,000 Speaker 1: Post wrote about from the State Department, and it's just 1377 01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:55,040 Speaker 1: the absence of democracy promotion is being taken as a 1378 01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:59,960 Speaker 1: change in mission, which it is. But promoting democratic principle 1379 01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:03,880 Speaker 1: into in countries where you don't have a civil society 1380 01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:07,920 Speaker 1: and a rule of law mentality that would support a 1381 01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:12,799 Speaker 1: consistent and continuous democracy is not in and of itself 1382 01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:16,280 Speaker 1: a good I just went over for you some cases 1383 01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:19,479 Speaker 1: where we certainly disapprove of the end result of a 1384 01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:22,040 Speaker 1: democratic process. But that's really what we have to keep 1385 01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:26,840 Speaker 1: in mind, that democracy is, in its simplest form, just 1386 01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:29,320 Speaker 1: a process. I was talking to you, what was it 1387 01:19:29,400 --> 01:19:32,720 Speaker 1: yesterday about how democrats in this country are obsessed with process, 1388 01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:37,200 Speaker 1: because it's a means of it becomes self justifying. I 1389 01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:40,200 Speaker 1: like to refer to government bureaucracy as the self looking 1390 01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:44,479 Speaker 1: ice cream code. Well, in some countries, having elections just 1391 01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:48,679 Speaker 1: becomes another way of propping up the authoritarians at the top, 1392 01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:51,800 Speaker 1: or the single party state, the one party state at 1393 01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:54,960 Speaker 1: the top of the political pyramid. It's just it becomes 1394 01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:57,519 Speaker 1: a talking point, right, it's pro forma. Oh, yes, we 1395 01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:00,639 Speaker 1: had democratic elections. If you didn't vote for us, you 1396 01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:04,200 Speaker 1: risk imprisonment or worse. But yeah, we totally had elections. 1397 01:20:04,240 --> 01:20:09,360 Speaker 1: Therefore we are legitimate democracy, or at least democratic processes 1398 01:20:09,479 --> 01:20:12,559 Speaker 1: are just that, and they don't in and of it, 1399 01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:18,400 Speaker 1: in and of themselves, have any intrinsic moral worth, because 1400 01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:20,360 Speaker 1: as I said, you can have bad outcomes from it. 1401 01:20:20,400 --> 01:20:23,519 Speaker 1: But also if you have a society that is not 1402 01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:25,720 Speaker 1: prepared for it, or if you have a society that 1403 01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:30,960 Speaker 1: does not have respect for the tradition, beyond the initial outcome, 1404 01:20:31,360 --> 01:20:34,360 Speaker 1: you can get to where the Muslim Brotherhood is on elections, 1405 01:20:34,360 --> 01:20:37,519 Speaker 1: which is yeah, sure, one you know, one election, one vote, 1406 01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:41,160 Speaker 1: one time, right, or democracy is like a train. You 1407 01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:43,599 Speaker 1: get off the train when you're done with it. And 1408 01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:45,559 Speaker 1: this is a major concern now as we look at 1409 01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:49,920 Speaker 1: what's going on across the Muslim world, Uh, the tyrants 1410 01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:52,240 Speaker 1: that run some of these countries, or the strong men 1411 01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:54,800 Speaker 1: that are in charge, or the single party or the 1412 01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:56,840 Speaker 1: ruling family, whatever it may be. If we're talking about 1413 01:20:56,840 --> 01:21:01,080 Speaker 1: the Jordanian Kingdom, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan's and you know, 1414 01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:04,160 Speaker 1: at a certain level, it also becomes an issue of 1415 01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:08,800 Speaker 1: we or in this country, you have democrats who have 1416 01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:11,439 Speaker 1: been subscribing to this theory for a long time that 1417 01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:17,000 Speaker 1: all people everywhere want the same things, that the mass 1418 01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:20,720 Speaker 1: of the American people are no more law abiding, are 1419 01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:24,400 Speaker 1: no more ethical or moral than the mass of name 1420 01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:27,040 Speaker 1: any other country. Well, when you push them a bit 1421 01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:28,679 Speaker 1: more on this, you'd say, well, hold on a second. 1422 01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:31,960 Speaker 1: You're going to tell me that there's no difference between 1423 01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:36,200 Speaker 1: the aggregate ethical compass. If that's a thing, I just 1424 01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:38,120 Speaker 1: made it up. But let's say that's a thing. There's 1425 01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:41,240 Speaker 1: no difference between the way that the people, the people 1426 01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:47,080 Speaker 1: generally speaking in the US, think about things, act and 1427 01:21:47,160 --> 01:21:50,360 Speaker 1: hold themselves than people in North Korea or in Iran. 1428 01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:54,040 Speaker 1: There's really no difference whatsoever. And that's that's silly, right, 1429 01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:56,439 Speaker 1: that's that's quite straight. But if you can establish that 1430 01:21:56,479 --> 01:21:59,600 Speaker 1: there are those differences, then you can also establish that 1431 01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:05,120 Speaker 1: some countries are not going to use democratic processes to 1432 01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:08,320 Speaker 1: get two outcomes that we like, that we can support. 1433 01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:11,680 Speaker 1: And if the purpose of the State Department is to 1434 01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:14,639 Speaker 1: support US interests, which I believe it is, and not 1435 01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:18,559 Speaker 1: to pursue some kind of internationalist u n multi later 1436 01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:22,080 Speaker 1: multilateral altruism, which I think a lot of the Democrats, 1437 01:22:22,120 --> 01:22:26,320 Speaker 1: the Pelosi's, the Schumer's, et cetera of the world believe, well, 1438 01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:30,240 Speaker 1: then we shouldn't just be promoting democracy everywhere and at 1439 01:22:30,280 --> 01:22:35,280 Speaker 1: all times. We should be promoting principles that undergird democracies. 1440 01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:37,280 Speaker 1: But we shouldn't just be saying everyone should go to 1441 01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:40,280 Speaker 1: a democracy, because that may not be in our interests. 1442 01:22:40,280 --> 01:22:42,439 Speaker 1: And while it's uncomfortable for some to say that or 1443 01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:45,760 Speaker 1: to realize that, it is the truth, and I care 1444 01:22:45,800 --> 01:22:47,800 Speaker 1: more about the truth than what makes people feel warm 1445 01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:50,600 Speaker 1: and fuzzy, including Democrats who are going to use this, 1446 01:22:50,720 --> 01:22:54,320 Speaker 1: of course, as I said, as a political cudgel against Trump. 1447 01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:56,200 Speaker 1: If in fact this is what the State Department does. 1448 01:22:56,439 --> 01:23:01,520 Speaker 1: Socialism strikes again in Venezuela. Latest out of that country 1449 01:23:01,600 --> 01:23:05,560 Speaker 1: from the last few days is that they held a 1450 01:23:05,640 --> 01:23:10,360 Speaker 1: sham election to put people in a position to rewrite 1451 01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:13,200 Speaker 1: the constitution. I mean, if you were trying to come 1452 01:23:13,280 --> 01:23:17,000 Speaker 1: up with a tyrants playbook, if you were looking to 1453 01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:22,759 Speaker 1: do fascism one oh one or uh an Idiot's Guide 1454 01:23:22,760 --> 01:23:25,640 Speaker 1: to Autocracy, I would have to think that a complete 1455 01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:31,040 Speaker 1: rewrite of the constitution based on a sham election to 1456 01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:33,519 Speaker 1: put people in a position to come up with what 1457 01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:36,320 Speaker 1: that new constitution would be, I would think that'd be 1458 01:23:36,479 --> 01:23:39,320 Speaker 1: very high on the list. Now, this is a country 1459 01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:42,639 Speaker 1: that I know people will point to and they will say, oh, look, 1460 01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:49,080 Speaker 1: this is the result of any number of global economic issues, 1461 01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:53,040 Speaker 1: right that The biggest problem in Venezuela is not the 1462 01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:59,799 Speaker 1: Bolivarian revolutionary ideology, is not its rejection of American leadership 1463 01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:04,680 Speaker 1: in the Western hemisphere and of international capitalist norms. No, 1464 01:24:05,120 --> 01:24:08,960 Speaker 1: they're they're big problem, you'll hear the defenders say, and 1465 01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:12,200 Speaker 1: there are fewer and fewer defenders these days. But their 1466 01:24:12,240 --> 01:24:15,439 Speaker 1: biggest issue, if you want to listen to those who 1467 01:24:15,479 --> 01:24:18,360 Speaker 1: are still taking these kinds of positions, is the drop 1468 01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:21,800 Speaker 1: in global oil prices. I mean, oil is really low 1469 01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:25,120 Speaker 1: right now, and it's below fifty dollars of barrel, I think, 1470 01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:31,400 Speaker 1: and that's absolutely painful for countries that are largely reliant 1471 01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:36,000 Speaker 1: on natural resources, on on oil, on fossil fuel for 1472 01:24:36,439 --> 01:24:40,360 Speaker 1: paying their bills. Um. Now, this is there's only so 1473 01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:42,680 Speaker 1: far you can take this. And in the case of Venezuela, 1474 01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:46,799 Speaker 1: you have a country with the largest proven oil reserves 1475 01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:50,360 Speaker 1: in the world, in fact, larger proven oil reserves than 1476 01:24:50,439 --> 01:24:56,600 Speaker 1: even Saudi Arabia has. So it's a particularly useful example 1477 01:24:57,240 --> 01:25:04,720 Speaker 1: of just how terribly a government can destroy an economy 1478 01:25:04,840 --> 01:25:09,960 Speaker 1: and can take what is actually a very good economic 1479 01:25:10,040 --> 01:25:13,680 Speaker 1: situation and can make it into something that or at 1480 01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:17,080 Speaker 1: least an economic positive, and can just fritter it all away. 1481 01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:19,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it can just decide that they're going to, 1482 01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:24,080 Speaker 1: through crappy policies, run a country into the ground, and 1483 01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:27,720 Speaker 1: now it's on the brink of civil war, or at 1484 01:25:27,760 --> 01:25:29,720 Speaker 1: least there are some who think that that could be 1485 01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:34,880 Speaker 1: around the corner, because once you start changing around the 1486 01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:38,120 Speaker 1: constitution of a country where you already have an effect 1487 01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:43,960 Speaker 1: a form of um of martial law. You have Venezuelans 1488 01:25:44,040 --> 01:25:47,000 Speaker 1: who have been killed over a hundred killed in these protests, 1489 01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:50,559 Speaker 1: but countless others. At this point, have been intimidated, have 1490 01:25:50,760 --> 01:25:55,479 Speaker 1: faced physical violence, and have been put through uh and 1491 01:25:55,640 --> 01:26:00,320 Speaker 1: any number of indignities because of this government that's just 1492 01:26:00,439 --> 01:26:04,200 Speaker 1: run by a clown. I mean, Maduro has no idea 1493 01:26:04,280 --> 01:26:08,680 Speaker 1: what he's doing, but he is a populous demagogue in 1494 01:26:08,720 --> 01:26:11,240 Speaker 1: the truest sense of demagoguery, which is a person who 1495 01:26:11,640 --> 01:26:13,960 Speaker 1: says things he knows to be untrue to people he 1496 01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:17,120 Speaker 1: knows to be idiots or thinks to be idiots, whichever 1497 01:26:17,160 --> 01:26:19,400 Speaker 1: one you want to use there. But he does say 1498 01:26:19,439 --> 01:26:21,200 Speaker 1: things he knows to be untrue to people who thinks 1499 01:26:21,200 --> 01:26:23,680 Speaker 1: are idiots. And he's gotten very far with that, and 1500 01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:30,280 Speaker 1: Chavez did the same thing. If you're looking for one reason, um. 1501 01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:32,920 Speaker 1: And by the way, Maduro is already threatening prison for 1502 01:26:33,040 --> 01:26:35,679 Speaker 1: his adversaries. The violence is out of control in the streets. 1503 01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:40,120 Speaker 1: Venezuela is close to a failed state, if you would 1504 01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:43,559 Speaker 1: not call it a failed state already, and there was 1505 01:26:43,920 --> 01:26:47,240 Speaker 1: widespread allegations of fraud for this vote that just happened. 1506 01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:51,920 Speaker 1: The country is possibly going to face another round of 1507 01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:55,679 Speaker 1: international sanctions led by the United States, which could cause 1508 01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:59,519 Speaker 1: a default. It already has hyper inflation. I mean, every 1509 01:26:59,640 --> 01:27:03,160 Speaker 1: prom one that you can look at for a country's 1510 01:27:03,200 --> 01:27:06,880 Speaker 1: economy and and all the major issues that we warn 1511 01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:09,120 Speaker 1: about and we talk about what happens when you put 1512 01:27:10,040 --> 01:27:13,680 Speaker 1: an autocrat who is also an imbecile in charge of 1513 01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:18,400 Speaker 1: a substantial and formally sophisticated and pretty well off at 1514 01:27:18,479 --> 01:27:21,120 Speaker 1: least well off or the region country. When you put 1515 01:27:21,120 --> 01:27:24,160 Speaker 1: someone in charge who is always able to come up 1516 01:27:24,200 --> 01:27:29,000 Speaker 1: with another excuse uh and is just cracking down more 1517 01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:32,680 Speaker 1: on descent as his failures become more apparent, you get 1518 01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:35,160 Speaker 1: a spiraling effect. And that's what's going on right now 1519 01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:39,759 Speaker 1: in Venezuela. I do think that it's a situation where 1520 01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:43,880 Speaker 1: the US is not really in any position to do 1521 01:27:44,040 --> 01:27:46,280 Speaker 1: much right now other than just sit back and say, wow, 1522 01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:49,679 Speaker 1: look at how terrible this is for the Venezuelan people, 1523 01:27:50,439 --> 01:27:54,880 Speaker 1: adding more economic misery into the equation with additional sanctions 1524 01:27:55,000 --> 01:27:59,840 Speaker 1: because of a vote that is really a joke that 1525 01:28:00,040 --> 01:28:02,559 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be very likely to help anything. And 1526 01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:05,400 Speaker 1: I also wanted to note that even with all of 1527 01:28:05,439 --> 01:28:09,240 Speaker 1: this going on, this is what's so astonishing in the reporting, 1528 01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:12,160 Speaker 1: Even with all the things that we see happening, uh, 1529 01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:14,760 Speaker 1: there are people, and you can still find them on 1530 01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:18,599 Speaker 1: the streets who support this government support Maduro Nicolas Maduro, 1531 01:28:19,360 --> 01:28:21,559 Speaker 1: who is now a he's the president, but he's really 1532 01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:25,639 Speaker 1: a tyrant, and they think that the government is going 1533 01:28:25,680 --> 01:28:29,160 Speaker 1: to fix this for them. It is it's astonishing to 1534 01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:32,400 Speaker 1: see this. But sure enough you have in the Wall 1535 01:28:32,439 --> 01:28:35,640 Speaker 1: Street Journal, uh, somebody saying the following that they have 1536 01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:38,719 Speaker 1: a reporter on the street asking questions, and someone said, quote, 1537 01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:42,480 Speaker 1: I voted to support the fatherland to ensure the economy approves. 1538 01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:45,000 Speaker 1: And this is according to a woman named Anna, who's 1539 01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:48,720 Speaker 1: a member of the local food distribution committee in the 1540 01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:53,320 Speaker 1: former socialist bastion of La Pastora in central Caracas, Caracas 1541 01:28:53,320 --> 01:28:59,080 Speaker 1: being the capital of Venezuela. Any anyone who is a 1542 01:28:59,120 --> 01:29:02,080 Speaker 1: member of a committee in the context of a socialist 1543 01:29:02,080 --> 01:29:04,599 Speaker 1: country that's in a free fall, you want to be 1544 01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:07,400 Speaker 1: very wary of listening to them on just about any 1545 01:29:07,479 --> 01:29:10,519 Speaker 1: issue whatsoever. You also had, just to give you a 1546 01:29:10,560 --> 01:29:13,280 Speaker 1: sense of what goes on in a country like Venezuela, 1547 01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:17,519 Speaker 1: where they say they're having a vote, you had people 1548 01:29:17,720 --> 01:29:20,800 Speaker 1: told that they would be fired. You had because, of course, 1549 01:29:20,840 --> 01:29:24,240 Speaker 1: the the economy. One of the reasons or some of 1550 01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:27,439 Speaker 1: the reasons that it's in such dire straits are that 1551 01:29:27,479 --> 01:29:30,599 Speaker 1: the government has been controlling prices. So the government says 1552 01:29:31,479 --> 01:29:35,760 Speaker 1: that toilet paper is fifty cents a role, and then 1553 01:29:35,960 --> 01:29:38,160 Speaker 1: a week later there's no toilet paper on the shelves 1554 01:29:38,160 --> 01:29:41,759 Speaker 1: and stores, and then the government blames the greedy store owners. 1555 01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:45,840 Speaker 1: And this has been played out time and again as 1556 01:29:46,520 --> 01:29:49,840 Speaker 1: by the Maduro government with for example, the seizure of 1557 01:29:50,080 --> 01:29:54,160 Speaker 1: private corporations, private assets, and capital under the guise of 1558 01:29:54,240 --> 01:29:59,040 Speaker 1: social justice. You see, you can't talk about socialism without 1559 01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:04,960 Speaker 1: also quickly turning into a social justice discussion. And that's 1560 01:30:05,160 --> 01:30:07,840 Speaker 1: what I think makes so many of the s j 1561 01:30:08,080 --> 01:30:10,519 Speaker 1: W as some of the social justice warriors in America 1562 01:30:10,960 --> 01:30:17,240 Speaker 1: uncomfortable when it comes to talking about Venezuela. There is 1563 01:30:17,280 --> 01:30:20,599 Speaker 1: a recognition I think that the same arguments, or at 1564 01:30:20,640 --> 01:30:22,880 Speaker 1: least right now, there's the recognition, because things are so 1565 01:30:22,920 --> 01:30:25,200 Speaker 1: bad in Venezuela, there's a recognition that many of the 1566 01:30:25,200 --> 01:30:30,960 Speaker 1: same arguments that are used in support of a more 1567 01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:36,280 Speaker 1: redistributive economy, a more state command and control economy in 1568 01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:38,760 Speaker 1: the Venezuelan case are the are the arguments that we 1569 01:30:38,880 --> 01:30:41,640 Speaker 1: hear in this country as well. And we are at 1570 01:30:41,640 --> 01:30:44,280 Speaker 1: a point right now where you have Chuck Schumer and 1571 01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:50,280 Speaker 1: other prominent Democrats speaking openly about single payer as a 1572 01:30:50,280 --> 01:30:53,960 Speaker 1: possibility for our health care system. Well, right after single 1573 01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:57,479 Speaker 1: payer comes socialized medicine, because once the government's writing all 1574 01:30:57,520 --> 01:31:00,519 Speaker 1: the checks and that becomes too expensive, then a government 1575 01:31:00,520 --> 01:31:03,080 Speaker 1: will come out and say, we need to control costs, 1576 01:31:03,280 --> 01:31:05,479 Speaker 1: and to really control costs, we need to control the 1577 01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:10,599 Speaker 1: means of healthcare production. And then you have truly socialized medicine. 1578 01:31:10,640 --> 01:31:14,200 Speaker 1: When the government runs and owns the hospitals, pays the 1579 01:31:14,280 --> 01:31:19,120 Speaker 1: doctors and nurses, determines what will be acceptable care and 1580 01:31:19,160 --> 01:31:21,280 Speaker 1: what care you will get and what is not. Then 1581 01:31:21,320 --> 01:31:23,360 Speaker 1: you're just entirely in the hands of the state. And 1582 01:31:23,600 --> 01:31:26,920 Speaker 1: I should note that when the state is making decisions 1583 01:31:27,000 --> 01:31:29,040 Speaker 1: about who gets healthcare and who doesn't, the state is 1584 01:31:29,040 --> 01:31:34,880 Speaker 1: making decisions about which innocent citizens live and which ones die. 1585 01:31:35,320 --> 01:31:38,679 Speaker 1: And so therefore politics is a zero sum game where 1586 01:31:38,720 --> 01:31:42,520 Speaker 1: lives literally hanging the balance. Right when you're a constituency 1587 01:31:42,600 --> 01:31:45,519 Speaker 1: that can either get a procedure covered or not, it 1588 01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:48,519 Speaker 1: may mean that people don't live as a result. So 1589 01:31:48,600 --> 01:31:51,760 Speaker 1: you can just see how this becomes more acrimonious. But 1590 01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:53,880 Speaker 1: I also think it's more likely to lead to a 1591 01:31:54,080 --> 01:31:56,759 Speaker 1: one party state because As you get further and further 1592 01:31:56,800 --> 01:32:00,400 Speaker 1: down this road of state control. Of the case of 1593 01:32:00,439 --> 01:32:02,320 Speaker 1: the U S discussion in our healthcare, in the case 1594 01:32:02,360 --> 01:32:06,479 Speaker 1: of Venezuela, everything, it's harder to turn it off. The 1595 01:32:06,520 --> 01:32:11,080 Speaker 1: state never views itself as failing. The state always views 1596 01:32:11,520 --> 01:32:15,120 Speaker 1: some other issue, right that that and the status will 1597 01:32:15,120 --> 01:32:17,720 Speaker 1: go along with it, and they'll provide cover, they'll provide 1598 01:32:18,200 --> 01:32:21,040 Speaker 1: the necessary excuses for it. And so that's how in 1599 01:32:21,160 --> 01:32:23,759 Speaker 1: Venezuela you have people that are saying the state needs 1600 01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:28,080 Speaker 1: more authority. Right this should be a reminder to all 1601 01:32:28,120 --> 01:32:30,360 Speaker 1: of us. The state has failed. It is a failed 1602 01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:32,559 Speaker 1: I said before, it is a failing state. I maybe 1603 01:32:32,600 --> 01:32:37,000 Speaker 1: would say now it's a failed state. But the failure 1604 01:32:37,160 --> 01:32:40,080 Speaker 1: is always blamed on some other entity. It can never 1605 01:32:40,120 --> 01:32:41,920 Speaker 1: be on the people who have taken this power to 1606 01:32:41,960 --> 01:32:44,200 Speaker 1: their hands in the first place. And just like you 1607 01:32:44,200 --> 01:32:47,560 Speaker 1: see here with their own healthcare system in Venezuela, the bureaucrats, 1608 01:32:47,560 --> 01:32:51,800 Speaker 1: the government officials, the demagogues, the populists, they always have 1609 01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:54,840 Speaker 1: somebody else to blame and just give them more power 1610 01:32:54,880 --> 01:33:00,120 Speaker 1: and money and they say they'll fix it. Team Buck. Today, 1611 01:33:00,160 --> 01:33:03,120 Speaker 1: August two, is the anniversary of one of the most 1612 01:33:03,320 --> 01:33:07,880 Speaker 1: important battles in all of history. I want to take 1613 01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:11,439 Speaker 1: you back, if you won't mind coming with me, to 1614 01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:16,720 Speaker 1: August second to sixteen b C. We are in the 1615 01:33:16,760 --> 01:33:21,959 Speaker 1: midst of the Second Punic War, one of the death Struggles, 1616 01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:25,760 Speaker 1: one of the existential battles between the great superpowers of 1617 01:33:25,800 --> 01:33:31,559 Speaker 1: the time, Ancient Rome, the mighty Roman Empire, and Carthage. Now, 1618 01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:34,360 Speaker 1: before I go into the details, and we'll just do 1619 01:33:34,400 --> 01:33:37,600 Speaker 1: a quick overview today of the Battle of can A 1620 01:33:37,960 --> 01:33:41,320 Speaker 1: or can I Canny. These are all acceptable ways of 1621 01:33:41,360 --> 01:33:45,080 Speaker 1: saying it. I like can A, but people have their own, 1622 01:33:45,160 --> 01:33:47,000 Speaker 1: their own version. I want to give you some of 1623 01:33:47,040 --> 01:33:50,080 Speaker 1: the background here. You had at this time during the 1624 01:33:50,120 --> 01:33:54,040 Speaker 1: Second Punic War between ancient Rome and the city state 1625 01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:58,240 Speaker 1: of Carthage, one of the greatest generals in history, Hannibal, 1626 01:33:58,560 --> 01:34:02,120 Speaker 1: squaring off against a Roman empire, but one that had 1627 01:34:02,160 --> 01:34:07,000 Speaker 1: a military that still had political leadership as a much 1628 01:34:07,040 --> 01:34:11,600 Speaker 1: more important qualification for its generals than or political connections. 1629 01:34:11,640 --> 01:34:16,080 Speaker 1: Really then military tactics and strategy, and this led to 1630 01:34:16,200 --> 01:34:19,720 Speaker 1: one of the great disasters in all military history for 1631 01:34:19,920 --> 01:34:22,960 Speaker 1: Rome and of course for Hannibal, one of the most 1632 01:34:23,000 --> 01:34:26,599 Speaker 1: impressive victories. In fact, it was a victory that later 1633 01:34:26,800 --> 01:34:32,720 Speaker 1: would be studied by general's tacticians, historians, strategists for centuries 1634 01:34:33,040 --> 01:34:37,080 Speaker 1: and was a fear. The double envelopment at Kenny was 1635 01:34:37,280 --> 01:34:42,000 Speaker 1: a fear of European modern armies, including in the First 1636 01:34:42,040 --> 01:34:47,160 Speaker 1: and Second World War. This informed the battlefield strategies of 1637 01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:51,360 Speaker 1: the French, of the Germans, and it was on the 1638 01:34:51,400 --> 01:34:55,000 Speaker 1: minds of those who have been fighting again ever since. 1639 01:34:55,479 --> 01:35:03,439 Speaker 1: This incredibly important to sixteen BC. Uh enormous battle in Kenny. 1640 01:35:03,479 --> 01:35:05,200 Speaker 1: So let's get or can a So I'm gonna say 1641 01:35:05,240 --> 01:35:07,120 Speaker 1: in different ways, So let's get into it a bit. 1642 01:35:07,400 --> 01:35:12,720 Speaker 1: You had Hannibal, this incredibly talented general crossing with this 1643 01:35:12,840 --> 01:35:16,559 Speaker 1: mighty army, crossing the Pyrenees in Spain and then the 1644 01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:22,439 Speaker 1: Alps with a military force that people were shocked at 1645 01:35:22,479 --> 01:35:25,879 Speaker 1: his ability to even move it. He moved elephants famously. 1646 01:35:25,920 --> 01:35:29,240 Speaker 1: I mean this has resonated throughout the ages. Hannibal moved 1647 01:35:29,320 --> 01:35:34,120 Speaker 1: elephants across the Alps. And then with this UH, this 1648 01:35:34,240 --> 01:35:39,080 Speaker 1: combined force that was taking along the way galls adding 1649 01:35:39,120 --> 01:35:41,439 Speaker 1: to its ranks. You know, the the core of the 1650 01:35:41,600 --> 01:35:45,880 Speaker 1: army came came from North Africa, which where Carthage is 1651 01:35:46,520 --> 01:35:51,080 Speaker 1: and in what is today's Tunisia. That's where the ancient 1652 01:35:51,520 --> 01:35:55,360 Speaker 1: city of Carthage was found. So Hannibal with this army 1653 01:35:55,400 --> 01:35:58,400 Speaker 1: that was picking up along the way. It started out 1654 01:35:58,479 --> 01:36:03,960 Speaker 1: with Carthaginia and heavy infantry and very famously Numidian cavalry. 1655 01:36:04,800 --> 01:36:08,920 Speaker 1: And then Hannibal had this this group of mercenaries and 1656 01:36:09,160 --> 01:36:12,439 Speaker 1: volunteers that they had picked up to try and plunder 1657 01:36:12,479 --> 01:36:16,320 Speaker 1: the mighty Roman Empire. And part of his plan was 1658 01:36:16,360 --> 01:36:21,559 Speaker 1: to use various villages and UH and other UH cities 1659 01:36:22,000 --> 01:36:25,320 Speaker 1: to join together against Rome, because he was always saying 1660 01:36:25,360 --> 01:36:28,080 Speaker 1: that the yoke of Rome was so heavy on their shoulders. 1661 01:36:28,120 --> 01:36:30,479 Speaker 1: It should also been also be noted that Hannibal's father, 1662 01:36:31,200 --> 01:36:34,719 Speaker 1: in fact, was the a general in the First Punic 1663 01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:37,880 Speaker 1: War against and Punic just meaning having to do with 1664 01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:41,840 Speaker 1: Carthage by the way, And and Hannibal's father had made 1665 01:36:41,920 --> 01:36:46,840 Speaker 1: him swear a blood oath never to establish a peace 1666 01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:49,120 Speaker 1: with Roman and to be willing to fight till the 1667 01:36:49,160 --> 01:36:52,880 Speaker 1: absolute bitter, very end against the Roman Empire. So this 1668 01:36:53,320 --> 01:36:58,080 Speaker 1: very brilliant, ruthless, by the way, brutal general Hannibal Um 1669 01:36:58,160 --> 01:37:00,880 Speaker 1: had moved across He traveled all the from Spain across 1670 01:37:00,960 --> 01:37:05,759 Speaker 1: Gaul modern France and over the Alps into Italy proper 1671 01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:09,880 Speaker 1: what was then the main the main areas of the 1672 01:37:10,080 --> 01:37:12,960 Speaker 1: Roman Empire, of course, with Rome, the city of Rome 1673 01:37:13,040 --> 01:37:15,880 Speaker 1: at its core and at its center, and there were 1674 01:37:15,920 --> 01:37:20,360 Speaker 1: a series of military defeats including Trebia and Lake Trasamine, 1675 01:37:20,840 --> 01:37:24,320 Speaker 1: where the Romans were just routed. They were they just 1676 01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:29,439 Speaker 1: got their butts kicked by Hannibal with his mixed force, 1677 01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:33,440 Speaker 1: his usage of some elephants, but most importantly his understanding 1678 01:37:33,439 --> 01:37:37,880 Speaker 1: of command and maneuver. Hannibal would set battlefield traps for 1679 01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:41,080 Speaker 1: the Romans because he knew how they fought, and he 1680 01:37:41,160 --> 01:37:48,200 Speaker 1: would just annihilate these numerically superior forces with his veteran, 1681 01:37:48,760 --> 01:37:54,759 Speaker 1: very well trained uh actual combatants. These weren't just people 1682 01:37:54,800 --> 01:37:57,080 Speaker 1: that had been called together under the banner of Rome 1683 01:37:57,120 --> 01:37:59,679 Speaker 1: because they had no choice. This was not a conscript army. 1684 01:38:00,160 --> 01:38:05,040 Speaker 1: These were real fighters that Hannibal had at his disposal, 1685 01:38:05,200 --> 01:38:08,320 Speaker 1: and he used them two tremendous effect leading up to 1686 01:38:09,120 --> 01:38:12,200 Speaker 1: the what what could have been the death knell for 1687 01:38:12,400 --> 01:38:17,679 Speaker 1: the Roman Empire at Canny. Now, the battle took place 1688 01:38:17,920 --> 01:38:21,840 Speaker 1: in the southeastern part, really the heel of the boot 1689 01:38:21,920 --> 01:38:26,639 Speaker 1: of Italy, if you will, and it was a battle 1690 01:38:26,720 --> 01:38:29,800 Speaker 1: between the numbers are always when you're talking about ancient times, 1691 01:38:29,840 --> 01:38:33,000 Speaker 1: and Livy is the great historian of this battle. The 1692 01:38:33,040 --> 01:38:36,519 Speaker 1: war with Hannibal is a timeless classic. It is in fact, 1693 01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:42,599 Speaker 1: really up there with with Fucidity's history of the Peloponnesian War, 1694 01:38:42,760 --> 01:38:46,800 Speaker 1: which was the great fight of that time between Athens 1695 01:38:46,920 --> 01:38:50,840 Speaker 1: and Sparta. Uh the greatest battles really fought in terms 1696 01:38:50,840 --> 01:38:54,720 Speaker 1: of struggles for survival and the impact on well the 1697 01:38:54,760 --> 01:38:59,040 Speaker 1: future of western civilization of the Roman era had to 1698 01:38:59,080 --> 01:39:02,360 Speaker 1: do with the fight against the Punic Wars, the fights 1699 01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:07,920 Speaker 1: against Carthage. Now you had the series of Roman defeats 1700 01:39:07,960 --> 01:39:12,320 Speaker 1: at the hands of Hannibal and his incredibly versatile and 1701 01:39:12,600 --> 01:39:18,040 Speaker 1: skilled army, and he met finally after days of maneuver 1702 01:39:18,680 --> 01:39:22,880 Speaker 1: and trying to pick a superior spot on the battlefield 1703 01:39:22,880 --> 01:39:27,519 Speaker 1: for actually engaging the enemy. You had these massive forces 1704 01:39:27,560 --> 01:39:31,439 Speaker 1: squaring off against each other in this southeastern on this 1705 01:39:31,479 --> 01:39:35,559 Speaker 1: battlefield in southeastern Rome. Now, one of the big problems 1706 01:39:35,640 --> 01:39:38,680 Speaker 1: here is that you had on the Roman side of 1707 01:39:38,720 --> 01:39:46,080 Speaker 1: things to consuls too, generals who were just one They 1708 01:39:46,080 --> 01:39:49,360 Speaker 1: were opposites and they took turns when it came to command. 1709 01:39:50,120 --> 01:39:54,920 Speaker 1: So you had Lucius Amilius Paulus, and Guius Terentius Vero, 1710 01:39:55,479 --> 01:39:58,280 Speaker 1: and they would switch day to day. Imagine that for 1711 01:39:58,320 --> 01:40:01,080 Speaker 1: a second. Imagine you had one four star calling all 1712 01:40:01,120 --> 01:40:03,400 Speaker 1: the shots today one day, and the next day you 1713 01:40:03,479 --> 01:40:06,040 Speaker 1: had a different four star, and they're moving the whole 1714 01:40:06,240 --> 01:40:10,800 Speaker 1: army for a conclusive battle against the foe. I mean, 1715 01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:15,000 Speaker 1: they're they're maneuvering for a battle of annihilation against the enemy, 1716 01:40:15,040 --> 01:40:18,200 Speaker 1: all supposed to all supposed to happen in one day, 1717 01:40:18,280 --> 01:40:22,639 Speaker 1: and you're switching general's day in and day out. Now 1718 01:40:23,000 --> 01:40:25,000 Speaker 1: this is where you have. Oh by the way, in 1719 01:40:25,120 --> 01:40:27,920 Speaker 1: terms of numbers, I have to give you numbers here. 1720 01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:30,840 Speaker 1: It is estimated that on the Roman side of this 1721 01:40:30,920 --> 01:40:34,160 Speaker 1: Battle of Canna, remember August two, which why we're talking 1722 01:40:34,160 --> 01:40:37,120 Speaker 1: about it today, to six BC, on the Roman side 1723 01:40:37,160 --> 01:40:41,600 Speaker 1: you had about fifty thousand I'm sorry about eighty to 1724 01:40:41,760 --> 01:40:47,320 Speaker 1: ninety thousand all in um. A big preponderance of that 1725 01:40:47,360 --> 01:40:50,400 Speaker 1: would have been Roman infantry. With the Allied infantry, you 1726 01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:53,840 Speaker 1: had a few thousand in cavalry, and then you had 1727 01:40:53,880 --> 01:40:56,719 Speaker 1: a garrison nearby. In a fourth, the Romans would build 1728 01:40:56,720 --> 01:41:01,679 Speaker 1: fortified forward positions for their camps. Now on the Carthaginian side, 1729 01:41:01,680 --> 01:41:04,680 Speaker 1: you had about fifty thousand, so slightly less than a 1730 01:41:04,680 --> 01:41:09,080 Speaker 1: two to one advantage overall, a majority of them being 1731 01:41:09,360 --> 01:41:13,800 Speaker 1: heavy infantry. But then you had a pretty substantial cavalry 1732 01:41:13,880 --> 01:41:17,320 Speaker 1: contingent and about ten to twenty thousand all in light 1733 01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:21,240 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, ten thousand all in cavalry, and you also 1734 01:41:21,360 --> 01:41:24,200 Speaker 1: have some light infantry thrown into the mix too, So 1735 01:41:24,360 --> 01:41:26,560 Speaker 1: you've got about a ten thousand cavalry contingu to this 1736 01:41:26,680 --> 01:41:31,439 Speaker 1: Numidian cavalry, which were incredibly versatile and very seasoned fighters. 1737 01:41:31,960 --> 01:41:35,120 Speaker 1: And then we get into the actual battle itself. Now, 1738 01:41:35,160 --> 01:41:39,280 Speaker 1: it was typical at the time for the the Romans 1739 01:41:39,280 --> 01:41:44,160 Speaker 1: were planning on using masked infantry forces right in the 1740 01:41:44,200 --> 01:41:47,920 Speaker 1: center of their line of battle to just overwhelm and 1741 01:41:48,080 --> 01:41:52,640 Speaker 1: smash the enemy. Uh. They also were hoping that the 1742 01:41:52,760 --> 01:41:56,400 Speaker 1: river that they're in their initial deployment, that the river 1743 01:41:56,479 --> 01:42:00,599 Speaker 1: that was nearby the alphabus, would prevent them from being 1744 01:42:00,920 --> 01:42:04,320 Speaker 1: drastically out maneuvered. They could use that on there to 1745 01:42:04,479 --> 01:42:07,559 Speaker 1: protect their flank. That was the idea. So the Romans 1746 01:42:07,560 --> 01:42:10,559 Speaker 1: were planning a full frontal smash assault, and in fact, 1747 01:42:10,800 --> 01:42:14,600 Speaker 1: they even made the depths of their ranks deeper with 1748 01:42:14,640 --> 01:42:18,080 Speaker 1: the idea that they would just use overwhelming military might 1749 01:42:18,200 --> 01:42:22,479 Speaker 1: and numbers to crush, smash right through the center of 1750 01:42:22,520 --> 01:42:27,720 Speaker 1: the enemy. Uh. Hannibal, for his part, was prepared, was 1751 01:42:27,760 --> 01:42:33,360 Speaker 1: really springing a trap for them. He had Hasdrubal leading 1752 01:42:33,680 --> 01:42:38,559 Speaker 1: the cavalry on the left of the Carthaginian line, and 1753 01:42:38,600 --> 01:42:43,000 Speaker 1: you had Hanno with third over three thousand Numidian cavalry 1754 01:42:43,040 --> 01:42:46,320 Speaker 1: on the right. And what ended up happening here was 1755 01:42:46,400 --> 01:42:50,559 Speaker 1: that you had Hannibal intentionally had the center of his 1756 01:42:50,640 --> 01:42:54,320 Speaker 1: line member. This is ancient warfare where you have heavily 1757 01:42:54,479 --> 01:42:58,120 Speaker 1: armored infantry with some cavalry on the flanks just smashing 1758 01:42:58,120 --> 01:43:01,960 Speaker 1: into each other, fighting in rank, fighting in formation. So 1759 01:43:02,120 --> 01:43:05,960 Speaker 1: Hannibal had his center pulled back, and as they were 1760 01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:10,280 Speaker 1: pulling back, he had his cavalry go after the Roman cavalry, 1761 01:43:10,720 --> 01:43:14,679 Speaker 1: and then he also had his two flanks continue to extend, 1762 01:43:14,800 --> 01:43:19,040 Speaker 1: so you had a concave formation. You think of it 1763 01:43:19,120 --> 01:43:23,040 Speaker 1: like the Romans were pushing into the center of a 1764 01:43:23,520 --> 01:43:26,880 Speaker 1: of a of a horseshoe, and they're pushing into the 1765 01:43:26,920 --> 01:43:29,280 Speaker 1: indentation of the horseshoe. And as they were doing that, 1766 01:43:29,560 --> 01:43:31,720 Speaker 1: as the mass of Roman soldiers was going deeper and 1767 01:43:31,760 --> 01:43:35,799 Speaker 1: deeper into the center of this horseshoe of Carthaginian troops. 1768 01:43:36,120 --> 01:43:40,120 Speaker 1: The two sides, the two flanks of the Carthaginians were 1769 01:43:40,200 --> 01:43:45,360 Speaker 1: extending out, and then you had a complete encirclement of 1770 01:43:45,439 --> 01:43:48,280 Speaker 1: the Romans. Both flanks were able to come together in 1771 01:43:48,320 --> 01:43:51,439 Speaker 1: the Roman rear, and so what started out as two 1772 01:43:51,920 --> 01:43:58,200 Speaker 1: enormous masked armies became one army pushing into another at 1773 01:43:58,800 --> 01:44:02,000 Speaker 1: with Remember the Carthage were falling back in line to 1774 01:44:02,080 --> 01:44:05,800 Speaker 1: allow this advance. The Romans became more and more enthusiastic 1775 01:44:05,840 --> 01:44:08,360 Speaker 1: about this because they thought, oh, we're crushing their lines 1776 01:44:08,439 --> 01:44:11,800 Speaker 1: or pushing them back. Meanwhile, on the sides that Carthaginians 1777 01:44:12,080 --> 01:44:15,120 Speaker 1: were flanking them, and then we're able to complete that 1778 01:44:15,200 --> 01:44:19,760 Speaker 1: with a full encirclement. And this also also called a 1779 01:44:19,920 --> 01:44:24,160 Speaker 1: pincer movement. The words that Livy used to describe what 1780 01:44:24,240 --> 01:44:28,000 Speaker 1: happened were quote. So many thousands of Romans were dying, 1781 01:44:28,439 --> 01:44:31,200 Speaker 1: some whom their wounds pinched by the morning cold had 1782 01:44:31,280 --> 01:44:34,080 Speaker 1: roused as they were rising up covered with blood from 1783 01:44:34,080 --> 01:44:37,000 Speaker 1: the midst of the heaps of slain were overpowered by 1784 01:44:37,000 --> 01:44:39,840 Speaker 1: the enemy. Some were found with their heads plunged into 1785 01:44:39,920 --> 01:44:43,400 Speaker 1: the earth, which they had excavated, having thus as it appeared, 1786 01:44:43,760 --> 01:44:48,280 Speaker 1: made pits for themselves, and having them and having suffocated themselves. 1787 01:44:49,160 --> 01:44:55,599 Speaker 1: You had uh, tens of thousands of Romans killed in 1788 01:44:55,640 --> 01:44:57,840 Speaker 1: this one battle, in this one exchange. To keep in mind, 1789 01:44:57,840 --> 01:45:01,640 Speaker 1: these are all people who are either killed by being hacked, stabbed, 1790 01:45:01,720 --> 01:45:04,720 Speaker 1: or crushed to death in the battle line. Uh. This 1791 01:45:04,800 --> 01:45:09,000 Speaker 1: is not in This is not the advanced mechanical butchery 1792 01:45:09,080 --> 01:45:11,559 Speaker 1: of the First and Second World War where you saw 1793 01:45:11,880 --> 01:45:15,240 Speaker 1: many tens of thousands dying from machine gun fire. This 1794 01:45:15,479 --> 01:45:21,440 Speaker 1: was the slow, almost methodical, mechanical killing of thrusting spears 1795 01:45:21,520 --> 01:45:26,040 Speaker 1: and and hacking swords and close quarters battle with axes 1796 01:45:26,360 --> 01:45:32,000 Speaker 1: and whatever implements were at hand. It was incredibly bloody work, 1797 01:45:32,240 --> 01:45:37,040 Speaker 1: and it was for the Carthaginians in incredible victory and 1798 01:45:37,160 --> 01:45:41,360 Speaker 1: put Hannimal down in history as one of the greatest generals, 1799 01:45:41,360 --> 01:45:44,960 Speaker 1: one of the greatest tacticians of all time. To be 1800 01:45:45,000 --> 01:45:49,120 Speaker 1: outnumbered by the great military power really of the time 1801 01:45:49,160 --> 01:45:51,519 Speaker 1: and one of the greatest powers for its time in 1802 01:45:51,560 --> 01:45:53,960 Speaker 1: all history. To be at numbered almost two to one, 1803 01:45:54,080 --> 01:45:58,640 Speaker 1: and to only lose in the in the low thousands 1804 01:45:58,880 --> 01:46:03,040 Speaker 1: of Carthaginians groups, and to kill I mean by Polybius 1805 01:46:03,120 --> 01:46:07,920 Speaker 1: is estimate you had seventy thousand killed. Now that's probably 1806 01:46:08,400 --> 01:46:12,560 Speaker 1: a high number, but you did have a vast majority 1807 01:46:12,600 --> 01:46:17,040 Speaker 1: of the Roman army absolutely annihilated in this battle. And 1808 01:46:17,200 --> 01:46:21,880 Speaker 1: you know later on Napoleon's great victory at Austerlitz would 1809 01:46:21,880 --> 01:46:26,840 Speaker 1: be compared to can A. Um. What Hannibal did on 1810 01:46:26,920 --> 01:46:32,479 Speaker 1: that day of August second to sixteen BC in the 1811 01:46:32,520 --> 01:46:37,799 Speaker 1: Second Punic War became the benchmark for all great future battles, 1812 01:46:37,840 --> 01:46:42,719 Speaker 1: but also was an early harbinger of what could happen 1813 01:46:42,720 --> 01:46:45,160 Speaker 1: when great armies faced each other. That it wasn't a 1814 01:46:45,200 --> 01:46:48,080 Speaker 1: ten or twenty percent casualty rate that could be expected, 1815 01:46:48,240 --> 01:46:53,000 Speaker 1: but you could have wars of complete annihilation on the battlefield. UM, 1816 01:46:53,160 --> 01:46:55,040 Speaker 1: I will leave it there for now, Team, the Battle 1817 01:46:55,040 --> 01:46:59,639 Speaker 1: of Cana August second to sixteen BC. Of all these 1818 01:46:59,640 --> 01:47:03,559 Speaker 1: things that you would steal, I gotta say a hundred 1819 01:47:03,560 --> 01:47:06,800 Speaker 1: pound tortoise I would think would be kind of low 1820 01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:09,080 Speaker 1: on the list. But sure enough, here in New York, 1821 01:47:09,640 --> 01:47:14,280 Speaker 1: someone decided to take a one hundred pound African spurred 1822 01:47:14,320 --> 01:47:19,840 Speaker 1: tortoise named Millennium from the Alley Pond Environmental Center a 1823 01:47:19,840 --> 01:47:24,320 Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. So they stole a hundred pound turtle. 1824 01:47:25,040 --> 01:47:28,639 Speaker 1: And yeah, the turtle, though, I should say, has been 1825 01:47:28,680 --> 01:47:32,639 Speaker 1: returned to the proper authorities, and now someone isn't custody 1826 01:47:32,680 --> 01:47:36,960 Speaker 1: for for a grand larceny. I've never understood why people 1827 01:47:37,000 --> 01:47:40,800 Speaker 1: have reptiles for pets. I just moved into new building. 1828 01:47:40,800 --> 01:47:43,160 Speaker 1: They asked me if I had a pet, and and 1829 01:47:43,200 --> 01:47:44,840 Speaker 1: I said, no, you know, I don't have one, and 1830 01:47:45,200 --> 01:47:47,040 Speaker 1: you know, not yet at least, and I want to 1831 01:47:47,040 --> 01:47:49,720 Speaker 1: get a dog. And the guy that was talking to 1832 01:47:50,320 --> 01:47:52,760 Speaker 1: who works the building, was like, well, what about a cat? 1833 01:47:52,880 --> 01:47:56,599 Speaker 1: And I'm like, you know, I I just cats are great. 1834 01:47:56,680 --> 01:47:59,240 Speaker 1: They're just not my thing. They're They're just not my thing. 1835 01:47:59,280 --> 01:48:01,120 Speaker 1: If I'm gonna go with a pet mag and a dog. 1836 01:48:01,640 --> 01:48:03,679 Speaker 1: But the only other thing that I ever thought about, 1837 01:48:03,760 --> 01:48:06,800 Speaker 1: and I might be oversharing now, team I even thought 1838 01:48:06,800 --> 01:48:10,759 Speaker 1: it'd be kind of fun to have a pet hedgehog um, 1839 01:48:10,800 --> 01:48:14,000 Speaker 1: which you know, I saw somebody once who had a 1840 01:48:14,280 --> 01:48:16,719 Speaker 1: pet hedgehog. In fact, I dated a girl in college 1841 01:48:17,040 --> 01:48:22,040 Speaker 1: whose family had a little patch of pet hedgehogs I 1842 01:48:22,040 --> 01:48:23,639 Speaker 1: don't know, and I thought they were kind of cute 1843 01:48:23,640 --> 01:48:26,400 Speaker 1: and fun and if you couldn't go with a full canine. 1844 01:48:26,560 --> 01:48:29,320 Speaker 1: You know, a hedgehog might be an interesting way to go, 1845 01:48:29,600 --> 01:48:31,519 Speaker 1: and they're not legal in New York City though, I 1846 01:48:31,720 --> 01:48:33,840 Speaker 1: would not be allowed to have a hedgehog. So then 1847 01:48:33,880 --> 01:48:35,960 Speaker 1: I look at the other options and people say, well, 1848 01:48:36,280 --> 01:48:40,040 Speaker 1: maybe you can get yourself a terrapin, which, well, though 1849 01:48:40,040 --> 01:48:43,120 Speaker 1: that would be uh sorry, that would be a sea turtle, right, 1850 01:48:43,120 --> 01:48:45,559 Speaker 1: that would be very bad. They're like endangered. I know, 1851 01:48:45,600 --> 01:48:47,920 Speaker 1: I can give myself a tortoise of some kind, but 1852 01:48:48,240 --> 01:48:52,679 Speaker 1: reptile brains aren't large enough to have attachments to people. 1853 01:48:52,720 --> 01:48:55,040 Speaker 1: As far as I understand, not trying to offend any 1854 01:48:55,200 --> 01:48:59,240 Speaker 1: reptile lovers out there, but having a pet tortoise or snake, 1855 01:48:59,360 --> 01:49:01,720 Speaker 1: I've never really understood it. And I'm gonna put this 1856 01:49:01,760 --> 01:49:04,439 Speaker 1: out there. I knew a girl in high school who 1857 01:49:04,479 --> 01:49:07,040 Speaker 1: had a pet Boa constrictor, and I'm just gonna say 1858 01:49:07,080 --> 01:49:09,600 Speaker 1: I had some questions. Okay, I had some questions. I 1859 01:49:09,600 --> 01:49:11,840 Speaker 1: think that's fair. I think it's fair to say, what 1860 01:49:12,000 --> 01:49:16,000 Speaker 1: exactly about having an animal with a tiny brain that 1861 01:49:16,080 --> 01:49:20,599 Speaker 1: only eats, sleeps, and kills things, and has no fur, 1862 01:49:20,800 --> 01:49:23,719 Speaker 1: nothing warm or fuzzy about. It's literally a cold blooded animal. 1863 01:49:23,960 --> 01:49:27,880 Speaker 1: What part of that is appealing as a pet. I 1864 01:49:27,960 --> 01:49:31,639 Speaker 1: just didn't really understand that she was an unusual young lady. 1865 01:49:31,680 --> 01:49:34,760 Speaker 1: I'll put that out there. Um, the worst well, I 1866 01:49:34,760 --> 01:49:37,400 Speaker 1: shouldn't say the worst, sorry now in passing judgments, the 1867 01:49:37,479 --> 01:49:40,879 Speaker 1: strangest to me is when people have a very large, 1868 01:49:41,800 --> 01:49:46,080 Speaker 1: a very large insect of some kind. So people who 1869 01:49:46,120 --> 01:49:49,719 Speaker 1: have like a pet tarantula, that to me just seems 1870 01:49:50,240 --> 01:49:54,040 Speaker 1: completely bizarre. But I don't know, you know, I guess 1871 01:49:54,040 --> 01:49:57,360 Speaker 1: it's just a it's a conversation starter. It's like, hey, babe, 1872 01:49:57,360 --> 01:49:59,599 Speaker 1: you want to come back to my place and and 1873 01:49:59,760 --> 01:50:03,800 Speaker 1: meet my pet tarantula that's actually a spider that we're 1874 01:50:03,800 --> 01:50:06,440 Speaker 1: talking about a spider here. I'm talking about pets everybody. 1875 01:50:07,160 --> 01:50:09,479 Speaker 1: But yeah, I just I don't know. I'm thinking about pets. 1876 01:50:09,520 --> 01:50:10,760 Speaker 1: It's on the mine right now. I'm in a new 1877 01:50:10,800 --> 01:50:13,599 Speaker 1: apartment and I feel like I've got I've got now 1878 01:50:13,720 --> 01:50:16,320 Speaker 1: over four square feet of living space. So maybe it's 1879 01:50:16,320 --> 01:50:18,080 Speaker 1: time to get a pet. If you have any fun 1880 01:50:18,320 --> 01:50:21,559 Speaker 1: pet ideas, let me know. I've always wanted maybe a fox, 1881 01:50:21,600 --> 01:50:24,640 Speaker 1: but again, you know that's a wild animal and you 1882 01:50:24,680 --> 01:50:27,040 Speaker 1: can't have a pet fox apparently, So if you've got 1883 01:50:27,080 --> 01:50:29,479 Speaker 1: any pet ideas, you can send them to me on Facebook, 1884 01:50:29,479 --> 01:50:31,800 Speaker 1: dot com slash buck Sexton. Also, if you want to 1885 01:50:31,800 --> 01:50:34,719 Speaker 1: buy a T shirt Everybody Buck sexon dot com slash 1886 01:50:34,920 --> 01:50:38,080 Speaker 1: store Um. Please do share the show with a friend. 1887 01:50:38,160 --> 01:50:40,559 Speaker 1: Pass the buck, as we like to say here in 1888 01:50:40,600 --> 01:50:43,920 Speaker 1: the Hut, would be a great honor of privilege and 1889 01:50:44,000 --> 01:50:47,920 Speaker 1: a pleasure to try to entertain and inform someone else 1890 01:50:47,960 --> 01:50:50,679 Speaker 1: in your orbit, friend, family, or even foe. Just pass 1891 01:50:50,720 --> 01:50:54,160 Speaker 1: along the show iTunes Buck Sex in with America now 1892 01:50:54,240 --> 01:50:58,280 Speaker 1: click subscribe until tomorrow. My friends shields time