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Speaker 1: So I've never gone through a situation or going through

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Speaker 1: the period where I did not want to know my

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Speaker 1: father or did not want him to necessarily, you know,

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Speaker 1: be in my life. But I think, as he told me,

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Speaker 1: the issue he had with the book was that he

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Speaker 1: wasn't in it enough. And I'm gonna just leave that

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Speaker 1: one right there, right there.

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Speaker 2: That was the.

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Speaker 3: Great journalist, sports analyst, dear friend, political commentator Jamel Hill.

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Speaker 3: She is on the podcast today and she is talking

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Speaker 3: about her book Uphill and what Happens after the Fact.

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Speaker 4: It's the greatest suspension entertainment connective with Carry Champion and

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Speaker 4: Carrie Chappion is to be a champion a champion and

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Speaker 4: Carrie Chapion got a champion and Carry Chapion and Carrie

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Speaker 4: Sheppy Entertainment can Nickie Ward.

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Speaker 3: Hey, everybody, welcome to a new season of Naked with

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Speaker 3: Carrie Champion. You know, this season, as we try every

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Speaker 3: season to bring you these honest and authentic stories, this season,

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Speaker 3: I thought it would be nice with some of my guests,

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Speaker 3: if not most of my guests, to focus on one

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Speaker 3: particular accomplishment and ask them about it in a sense

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Speaker 3: of how vulnerable Naked honest they feel about their work,

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Speaker 3: and that could be anything from a book that they've written,

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Speaker 3: or perhaps if they are a professor or class that

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Speaker 3: they've created, if they're an actor, a movie that they've started,

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Speaker 3: if you're an athlete, what you do in your routine.

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Speaker 3: And so this week I have the wonderful opportunity to

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Speaker 3: begin season three with a very dear friend of mine.

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Speaker 3: She's been on the podcast before, about two and a

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Speaker 3: half years ago when we first started, but a lot

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Speaker 3: has happened since then. Jamel Hill is now a well,

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Speaker 3: she's always been a writer, but she wrote a memoir

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Speaker 3: and it's called Uphill with Jamel Hill. It's her life

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Speaker 3: story and anyone can obviously go out and get it

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Speaker 3: and read it. But I know that, and this is

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Speaker 3: a humble brag of my friends. I know that many

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Speaker 3: of my friends who write these personal books, these memoirs,

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Speaker 3: if you will, end up telling me that there's so

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Speaker 3: much fallout after the fact, and usually the fallout comes

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Speaker 3: from people who disagree with their version of the truth,

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Speaker 3: their version of their reality. And I find it fascinating,

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Speaker 3: because I'm new to the game, the book writing game,

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Speaker 3: that someone can tell you what they feel about a

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Speaker 3: book you wrote based on your truth.

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Speaker 2: In my mind, you would just read it as what

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Speaker 2: it is, their truth, and you'd move on. But that's

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Speaker 2: just not the case.

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Speaker 3: And it speaks to me about a larger dynamic, a

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Speaker 3: more important dynamic, probably, and that is the relationship dynamic

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Speaker 3: that you have with your family and your very very

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Speaker 3: close friends. I wonder if you've ever had a really

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Speaker 3: good friend and you lost that friend because you guys

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Speaker 3: disagreed on the reality of a situation, the truth of

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Speaker 3: a situation. I had this happen to me most recently

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Speaker 3: when I went on Top Vision to talk about a

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Speaker 3: relationship that I had with my mother or how I

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Speaker 3: remembered growing up. And my mother watches my show all

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Speaker 3: the time on Amazon Prime. I want all you guys

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Speaker 3: to go see it Amazon Prime. It's the Carry Champion Show.

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Speaker 3: It's a sports show on the Sports Talk Network. And

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Speaker 3: I was telling a story about how I grew up.

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Speaker 3: My mother was watching and she was like, you didn't

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Speaker 3: grow up that way. That's just not true. You hurt

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Speaker 3: my feelings. Why are you saying those things about me?

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Speaker 3: And then that began a larger discussion with my peers,

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Speaker 3: my friends like Shamuel Hill, who have shared very honest

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Speaker 3: and personal things in front of the public eye.

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Speaker 2: You know what was the fallout? And so today she

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Speaker 2: joins us on the podcast.

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Speaker 3: To talk about her book, how it was received by family,

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Speaker 3: and how at one point and probably still now at

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Speaker 3: this point.

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Speaker 2: Fractured the relationship that she has with her parents. Please

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Speaker 2: take a listen.

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Speaker 3: Hopefully you can enjoy, and you can walk away and

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Speaker 3: say that I've learned something more importantly, go ahead and

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Speaker 3: get my girls books.

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Speaker 2: A champion and carey champion and carey Champion.

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Speaker 3: My dear friend Jamel Hill wrote a book and the

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Speaker 3: book was called Uphill her Memoir.

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Speaker 2: And here we are.

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Speaker 3: What how many I feel like you just wrote it yesterday.

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Speaker 3: I feel like it just came out yesterday. How long

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Speaker 3: has it been?

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Speaker 2: It came out in October. So I ask you this.

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Speaker 3: I've always wondered, because I have so many people in

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Speaker 3: my life now currently writing books memoirs, because all my

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Speaker 3: friends are so amazing and great. What has it been

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Speaker 3: like the feedback from your family, not from your friends before,

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Speaker 3: from your family and perhaps those who were in the book.

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Speaker 1: The feedback has been largely positive, but there has been

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Speaker 1: some negatives. My mother really loved the book. She embraced it,

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Speaker 1: My husband embraced the book. My friends, like my dear

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Speaker 1: friends like yourself, embraced it and were very, very supportive.

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Speaker 2: So the majority of people who.

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Speaker 1: Were in the book, or actually say, the people I'm

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Speaker 1: still in contact with, because there's people in the book

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Speaker 1: I'm not in contact with at all, So I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: know how they embraced the book period, but the majority

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Speaker 1: of people, they were really supportive. There were some difficulties.

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Speaker 1: You know, my father, he and I, we've had a

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Speaker 1: difficult pathway with this book. He initially took his thoughts

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Speaker 1: on the book to Facebook, which was not good for

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Speaker 1: our relationship, and I was very troubled by that, to

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Speaker 1: say the least, trying to I'm trying to use adult

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Speaker 1: language here. So there was trouble by that his reaction

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Speaker 1: to the book, and we had some difficult conversations in

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Speaker 1: the aftermath since then about it. He took some issues

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Speaker 1: with the book, not necessarily with any accuracy or anything

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Speaker 1: that I said, because you read the book, Harry, I

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Speaker 1: was not disparaging of my father at all. I told

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Speaker 1: what I believe to be the truth about our relationship.

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Speaker 1: It has been one that has always been an uphill

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Speaker 1: climb because my father, he was suffering from a heroin addiction.

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Speaker 2: That created some distance between us.

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Speaker 1: We tried to mend that relationship, and it's been an

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Speaker 1: ongoing process for the majority of my life. It's a

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Speaker 1: process I've always embraced. So I've never gone through a

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Speaker 1: situation or gone through the period where I did not

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Speaker 1: want to know my father or did not want him

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Speaker 1: to necessarily, you know, be in my life. But I think,

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Speaker 1: as he told me, the issue he had with the

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Speaker 1: book was that he wasn't in it enough. And I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna just leak wow right there, wow wow wow wow

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Speaker 1: wow wow.

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Speaker 3: He told you he wasn't in the book enough. I

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Speaker 3: thought that he was mad with the accuracy of the book.

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Speaker 3: He was not, and that was not That was a

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Speaker 3: plot twist that was not expecting. And I'm gonna just say,

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Speaker 3: what's obvious. To be in the book more, you have

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Speaker 3: to be in my life more. Those kind of go

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Speaker 3: hand in hand, and that is you know there there.

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Speaker 1: That is not to say that my father has been

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Speaker 1: absentee my entire life, but there was a stretch where, no,

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Speaker 1: we did not have a relationship because he was handling

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Speaker 1: his recovery and in the process of that, and that's

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Speaker 1: that's fine.

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Speaker 4: It is.

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Speaker 2: It is what it is.

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Speaker 1: And when we got on the pathway to try to

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Speaker 1: reconnect and get to know one another, it was difficult

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Speaker 1: because it's hard when during those formative years where you're

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Speaker 1: supposed to form that bond with parent and that doesn't happen,

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Speaker 1: or you're just working to try to get to that,

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Speaker 1: it can be tough. And you know, by that time, I,

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Speaker 1: you know, my mother, she her first marriage, my stepfather

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Speaker 1: was I thought he was my actual father, you know,

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Speaker 1: That's how he embraced me like I was really is.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't know that that was not my biological father,

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Speaker 1: and not that my mother hid it from me. It's

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Speaker 1: just a child just thinking that way. And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: we our relationship got off to a bit of a

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Speaker 1: rocky start. It was a little awkward. And this is

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Speaker 1: what I write about in the book about how awkward

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Speaker 1: that was to try to get to know your own father.

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Speaker 1: And I think because the relationship was not that glue

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Speaker 1: that you experienced with your parents, to try to recreate

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Speaker 1: that glue as I got older was hard. It was

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Speaker 1: hard to do, and so so yeah, I mean it.

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Speaker 1: It has been difficult. The book has been very, very

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Speaker 1: difficult on our relationship. So when you say it was difficult,

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Speaker 1: do you mean that he hurt you? Did it hurt

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Speaker 1: you that he felt like he should have been in

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Speaker 1: the book more and they facebook to tell people instead

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Speaker 1: of you.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that did hurt definitely, because.

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Speaker 1: If he had any issue with the book, I would

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Speaker 1: have my assumption would have been he would have come

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Speaker 1: to me, and as it is, but when that happened,

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Speaker 1: this is this was kind of the perfect storm of

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Speaker 1: our relationship sort of going.

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Speaker 2: Through a fracture. As it was.

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Speaker 1: I was already feeling like I was doing a lot

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Speaker 1: to carry the relationship, and in the sense that I

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Speaker 1: really felt like if I didn't call him, he wouldn't

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Speaker 1: call me. Like I felt like I was carrying it,

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Speaker 1: you know, you have those relationships you like, I'm doing

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Speaker 1: a lot of the work here, and so I was

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Speaker 1: feeling that away and trying to kind of I was

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Speaker 1: trying to fight through that part of it, and when

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Speaker 1: this happened, it was just sort of like, h this

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Speaker 1: is very eye opening. And I didn't even know about it. Actually,

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Speaker 1: it was my mother who saw it on Facebook. I

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Speaker 1: didn't even see it. And you know, Moms was not

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Speaker 1: pleased at all. You know, I was like to the death,

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Speaker 1: you know, my.

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Speaker 2: Ma, Mama is playing around, and so oh she was heated.

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Speaker 1: She was on ten about it, and she let him

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Speaker 1: know and they had a conversation about it independent of

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Speaker 1: the conversation my father and I had, and I'll just

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Speaker 1: say some of the tidbits she told me. I was like, boy,

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Speaker 1: I wish I'd have been a fly on the wall

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Speaker 1: and that because it was some language being used. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: she was not happy with that at all because she

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Speaker 1: thought and especially because some of the things that he

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Speaker 1: was saying on Facebook. He was the things that he

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Speaker 1: was talking about on Facebook were things that were not

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Speaker 1: actually in the book. And he wasn't you know, he

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Speaker 1: if he would have said on faceboo book like my

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Speaker 1: my issue is like I wasn't in it enough.

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Speaker 2: It was it was almost like he was adding his

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Speaker 2: own footnotes to it. And I was like, what is

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Speaker 2: happening here?

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Speaker 1: And I think, you know, at least because Ian, my husband,

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Speaker 1: you know, he already he read his Facebook posts. I

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Speaker 1: didn't read them, and I asked him, you know, his opinion,

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Speaker 1: and part of My issue with what my father wrote

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Speaker 1: on Facebook was that I felt like he was trying

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Speaker 1: to embarrass my mother and that a lot of what

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Speaker 1: he said was anger in the sense that he felt

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Speaker 1: like she was given better treatment in the book than

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Speaker 1: he was. And I just I just felt that tension

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Speaker 1: that was there, you know what I'm saying. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, well, I lived with my mother, my you know,

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Speaker 1: all of my my childhood growing up, like she raised me,

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Speaker 1: like it's my mother, Like what do you of course

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Speaker 1: she was going to prominently factor into the book, and

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Speaker 1: so yeah, so he was, you know, he was telling

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Speaker 1: stories about her and saying what I thought to be

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Speaker 1: something very despair about my stepfather, the man who stepped

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Speaker 1: in to raise me when you didn't. I thought that

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Speaker 1: was just I thought it was really really classless. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that would be the word that I would use to

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Speaker 1: describe it. And by the time we had a conversation

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Speaker 1: about it, we didn't have a conversation about it until

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Speaker 1: around my birthday because he called to wish me a

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Speaker 1: happy birthday, and I said, oh no, no, before we

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Speaker 1: get to this happy birthday, we got some other things

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Speaker 1: that we need to discuss.

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Speaker 2: And I told him I was unhappy with what he wrote. I,

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Speaker 2: you know, is his Facebook.

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Speaker 1: You're free to do what you want. I'm not here

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Speaker 1: to police your social media. But I just thought that

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Speaker 1: we could have handled that a lot better and that

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Speaker 1: we were in a better position in our relationship where

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't have done something like that. And he did,

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Speaker 1: you know, he sort of accepted my criticism. He didn't

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Speaker 1: apologize for it, didn't say that like, oh I regret

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Speaker 1: doing it or anything like that. He's just like, essentially,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry if you feel that way. I was like,

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Speaker 1: all right, so it is what it is. And so

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Speaker 1: I just kind of left it there, knowing that we

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Speaker 1: would pick it back up at some point, but I

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Speaker 1: wasn't eager to do that because I had to take

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Speaker 1: some time to process what happened. And then he called

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Speaker 1: me again and we talked, and this time he actually

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Speaker 1: did apologize, and he said that he was sorry and

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Speaker 1: that he had talked it over with you know, people

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Speaker 1: that he considered, you know, to be counsel for him,

250
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,960
Speaker 1: and they all told him that, hey, you and the wrong,

251
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Speaker 1: Like if your issue, your issue is that you're not

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Speaker 1: in the book enough, like that's that's weird, Like that's

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Speaker 1: you know, and I appreciate whoever was in his life

254
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Speaker 1: that told him that he was in the wrong, because,

255
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Speaker 1: you know, he apologized, But there were some other things

256
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Speaker 1: that were said in that conversation that frankly, I'm still

257
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Speaker 1: kind of recovering from, and so in the moment now,

258
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Speaker 1: for my own mental health, I've had to put our

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Speaker 1: relationship on pause.

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Speaker 3: I have a question because when you tell the story,

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Speaker 3: it sounds eerily similar to just a broken family story

262
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Speaker 3: and trying to be an adult, an adulting parent who

263
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Speaker 3: aren't adults. What does it feel like when a family

264
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Speaker 3: member betrays you.

265
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Speaker 1: Well, I think for a lot of people, it's worse

266
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Speaker 1: because you do stick by the whole. Okay, it's family,

267
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Speaker 1: you know, they this shouldn't this shouldn't happen. But I

268
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,480
Speaker 1: think what has happened between me and my father lately

269
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Speaker 1: is the symptoms of fractures that have always been there.

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Speaker 2: So of course it doesn't feel good for that to happen.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, you know, just sort of

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Speaker 1: assessing our relationship overall this it hurts in a different

273
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Speaker 1: way because our relationship has always been under construction, and

274
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Speaker 1: so it's sort of like this is maybe why our

275
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,440
Speaker 1: relationship couldn't get beyond what it was is that I

276
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,480
Speaker 1: always had a sense of like, this was not a

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Speaker 1: person that I could really rely on for, you know, emotionally,

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Speaker 1: certainly not financially, Like that wasn't out of that was

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Speaker 1: out of the question, Like those things, those sort of

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Speaker 1: core things that parents are supposed to provide. I did

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00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,080
Speaker 1: not feel like that was something that I could rely

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Speaker 1: on in this relationship. So I managed the relationship according

283
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:20,680
Speaker 1: to what I thought would be proper expectations. And so

284
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Speaker 1: I don't know, I guess the the hurtful part isn't

285
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Speaker 1: that I'm necessarily hurt.

286
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Speaker 2: The hurt is that.

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Speaker 1: This relationship, I realize, is something that I've always just

288
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:42,000
Speaker 1: kind of managed, and I'm like, man, I just am

289
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,760
Speaker 1: searching for what is the meaning of it? Because I

290
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,040
Speaker 1: know the meaning of it in the in the artificial

291
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,800
Speaker 1: sense is like this is my father, this is somebody

292
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Speaker 1: who had clearly had a very significant role in bringing

293
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,560
Speaker 1: me to this planet, and there's an honor in that,

294
00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,600
Speaker 1: and there's something I will always honor about that. But

295
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,680
Speaker 1: in terms of like what our connection actually is, that

296
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,800
Speaker 1: is the part where I'm like, I'm not sure that

297
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,840
Speaker 1: has ever really been there in a way that is

298
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:12,840
Speaker 1: substantive enough.

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Speaker 3: Do you think and I say this because I'm privy,

300
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,560
Speaker 3: but I could be wrong. Do you think that sometimes

301
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:26,400
Speaker 3: family members want to capitalize off of your success, especially

302
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,760
Speaker 3: especially with this book and so much attention and you

303
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:34,280
Speaker 3: went on a book tour. Was there this I deserve

304
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,680
Speaker 3: to And I don't know if famous is the word,

305
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,400
Speaker 3: but I deserve a piece of this pie as well.

306
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Speaker 2: You know, I do think that.

307
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Speaker 1: And I don't think that's something that's just limited to family.

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Speaker 1: I mean, because one of the stranger situation for instance,

309
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:54,200
Speaker 1: yeah and friends, you know, acquaintances. One of the stranger

310
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Speaker 1: sort of situations that popped up related to this book

311
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Speaker 1: is I discussing the book about how my mother had

312
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Speaker 1: an affair with a married man. It is not an

313
00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,600
Speaker 1: affair she is proud of, and there were some other

314
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:14,560
Speaker 1: financial factors that were you know, involved, and my mother,

315
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,000
Speaker 1: you know, I guess to give people the complete backstory

316
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,959
Speaker 1: in the context is this was after my mother went

317
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Speaker 1: through a very difficult divorce, the only time that you know,

318
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:30,840
Speaker 1: we've ever faced a precarious living situation. Her house that

319
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,200
Speaker 1: she had with her first husband was foreclosed on the

320
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,639
Speaker 1: house was in her name because she had the better credit,

321
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,479
Speaker 1: so she bore the brunt of all the financial damage

322
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,679
Speaker 1: that was done in this marriage. And so as a result,

323
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,080
Speaker 1: that left our housing situation hanging in the balance.

324
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Speaker 2: My mother did not want to move back in my grandmother.

325
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Speaker 2: She did not want to go home.

326
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Speaker 1: But she knew of a friend of hers who had

327
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Speaker 1: been a previous landlord who owned some property, who is

328
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,040
Speaker 1: a married man who you know, said hey, I'll let

329
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Speaker 1: you stay in this one of my properties for free,

330
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:10,000
Speaker 1: you know, And then he began to, of course inquire

331
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Speaker 1: about a romantic relationship between the two. My mother is

332
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,000
Speaker 1: not anything, a very pragmatic person, and in her mind

333
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:19,720
Speaker 1: and again this is not something she's proud of, but

334
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,639
Speaker 1: she's just keeping it a hundred is that like, Okay,

335
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:24,879
Speaker 1: so I see that he wants something from me.

336
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Speaker 2: I need some place to live.

337
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,600
Speaker 1: It just kind of is what it is, right, And

338
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,280
Speaker 1: so I write about this dynamic a lot in the

339
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,240
Speaker 1: books for people who want to know kind of more

340
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:39,879
Speaker 1: about it. And that person, I guess had been again

341
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:41,439
Speaker 1: this is a mary man. I don't know if he's

342
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,600
Speaker 1: still married or not. I actually changed his actual name

343
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,280
Speaker 1: in the book because I don't know a situation, and

344
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,879
Speaker 1: you know that's between him god and his family. What

345
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,840
Speaker 1: went down with him and my mom and so his

346
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,040
Speaker 1: one of his children actually reached out to me, and

347
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 1: this was a while ago and was like, oh yeah,

348
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,720
Speaker 1: my uh yeah, my dad brags about knowing you all,

349
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:08,760
Speaker 1: you know, and says like, you know, he knew you

350
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:10,639
Speaker 1: when you were growing up and this and that and

351
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:11,760
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah.

352
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,000
Speaker 2: And I'm thinking, like, did he tell you how he

353
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:14,399
Speaker 2: knew me?

354
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 1: I ain't say nothing, right, I'm like my business business tale,

355
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,520
Speaker 1: But like I'm just I'm just trying to understand the

356
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,200
Speaker 1: thought process of being so thirsty to say that you

357
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,040
Speaker 1: knew somebody who's now in the puff and.

358
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,520
Speaker 2: Body that yeah, yeah that you're like that this was

359
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,440
Speaker 2: a part of your extramarrital affair. My man, Like what

360
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,440
Speaker 2: are we doing? And you're like that is great, Yeah,

361
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,399
Speaker 2: you're telling your children what this is that I your

362
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 2: mom and I had you had an affair of my mom. No,

363
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,399
Speaker 2: you know they knew. I don't know.

364
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,680
Speaker 1: I don't think she knew because like I'm just you know,

365
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,440
Speaker 1: maybe I'm I'm stepping into it, like from if I

366
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,119
Speaker 1: were in their shoes. But if like, if that were me,

367
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,200
Speaker 1: you know, if I found out, oh, you know my

368
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,560
Speaker 1: like my mother like was had an affair with somebody famous,

369
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 1: I'm not going to reach out to it be like,

370
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,119
Speaker 1: oh my mama said she knew you, Like what, Like,

371
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that right, that's insane. So my only

372
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,880
Speaker 1: assumption is that same exactly. But oh, my only assumption

373
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 1: is that he never told his children or no, he

374
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,399
Speaker 1: never said what the relationship was because he could always

375
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,679
Speaker 1: just say, oh, she used to be attendant in one

376
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,159
Speaker 1: of my buildings. He could always say that, yeah, like

377
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,720
Speaker 1: he doesn't have to say what the dynamic actually is.

378
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,119
Speaker 1: But I still think that's wild that you would be

379
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,640
Speaker 1: going around bragging about knowing me when you know how

380
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 1: you knew me because you were around my mom. That's

381
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,240
Speaker 1: how I knew who you were. Like, it was like,

382
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 1: this is crazy, insane.

383
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,200
Speaker 3: I hear these stories all the time. My mom would

384
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,080
Speaker 3: be like, you remember so and so and it she's

385
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 3: like when you were seven, and I was like, you know,

386
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,160
Speaker 3: I don't. She's like, well, they run around telling everybody

387
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 3: they know you and they remember when, and then the

388
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,199
Speaker 3: stories are always exaggerated. The reason why I start if

389
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 3: this line of questioning was because there's a lot of me,

390
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 3: a lot of so much of me that wants to

391
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 3: write a book eventually, but I don't want to deal

392
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,400
Speaker 3: with the fallout. And there's always fallout, but you still

393
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 3: want to tell your truth, and telling your truth is

394
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 3: so tough because it's your truth and everyone remembers it

395
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 3: so differently. If you had to do something over again,

396
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,400
Speaker 3: what would you include in the book that you took

397
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 3: out that was your truth?

398
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,920
Speaker 1: Well, there was one thing that I took out and

399
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 1: I did do it, and I before you asked, no,

400
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say what it is because I know

401
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,640
Speaker 1: you're gonna ask. Yeah, that follow up, and that would

402
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 1: be and the following up, I know how you do

403
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 1: black Diane sawyer, Yes, leaning into it, but no, I

404
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,879
Speaker 1: took it out because it was something that did cause

405
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 1: an issue. There was only one thing my mother to

406
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 1: when she read a very very advanced copy of the

407
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 1: book that was in there, and it called We had

408
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 1: quite a disagreement about it. And what was so funny

409
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 1: and I also think was beautiful and a testament to

410
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 1: how our relationship has grown. I was in the mindset of, like, well,

411
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 1: you just gotta be mad, you know what I'm saying,

412
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 1: Like you just gonna have to be angry, and it

413
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 1: just is what it is. And then I thought about

414
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 1: it some more and I was like, Okay, am I

415
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,159
Speaker 1: doing this because I really feel like it adds value

416
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 1: to the book and it furthers the story. Or Am

417
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 1: I doing this just to try to prove a point?

418
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: And it was more along the lines of like trying

419
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 1: to prove a point, and that's when your pride is talking.

420
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: And because then I started to go through, Okay, what

421
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: are the ramifications of me putting and leaving this in

422
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,880
Speaker 1: this book? And they were gonna be a lot worse

423
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 1: for her, Like I was, it would not have reflected

424
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: on me. It would have reflected more on her. And

425
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,360
Speaker 1: I know you're like, oh, okay, but you tell such

426
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: very private personal things about your mom throughout this book.

427
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 2: How could this have been in any worse than I shared?

428
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: Certainly that was partly my opinion and one of the

429
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 1: reasons why I told her initially I was going forward

430
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 1: with putting forth this information like this ain't even hardly

431
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 1: an adoptee, and of like things that you would be

432
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 1: judged by in this book but it is something that

433
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 1: I think would have opened up a can of worms,

434
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 1: and frankly, I think it would have in many ways

435
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 1: undercut her larger, more inspirational testimony. And so I was like,

436
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to leave you to tell people that if

437
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: that's something you choose to share with them. But she also,

438
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 1: you know, went to some friends in hers and expressed

439
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 1: her concerns about like why she didn't want to in there,

440
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 1: and they told her she was in the wrong, and

441
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 1: they were like, you know, this is her story. It's

442
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: not really up to you to determine what's in that.

443
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: And I had already decided to take it out, but

444
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: she came to me and was like, if you leave

445
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 1: it in there, I'll just deal with the consequences and

446
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 1: it's fine.

447
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 2: So it was sort of like we both we met

448
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 2: in the middle.

449
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 1: We both saw each other's perspective, and we're ready to

450
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 1: take a course of action to support that. It's just

451
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,120
Speaker 1: that I had just made the decision that I'm gonna

452
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: leave this out because at the end of the day,

453
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 1: I do want to preserve and have a healthy relationship,

454
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 1: you know, with my mother. And while I don't think

455
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: that having that relationship means that I have to sacrifice

456
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: or compromise who I am for that.

457
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 2: I didn't actually consider this to be part of that.

458
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 1: Like, I didn't think this added any more to the

459
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: story than was already there, and I think it took

460
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 1: away from this story.

461
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 3: So I was fine with like leaving that out. Hey, everybody,

462
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 3: you gotta take a quick break because I need to

463
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 3: pay bills. We still pay bills on season three.

464
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 5: Back in the moment, Every Champion and Cary Champions to

465
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 5: be a champion, a champion and carry Champion and carry

466
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 5: chap beata Champion and carry Chapion and carry CHAMPI Entertainment

467
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 5: can Nigi.

468
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 3: We're gonna.

469
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 5: Every Champion and carry Champion is to be a champion,

470
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 5: a champion and Carrie Champion, Nigy a champion.

471
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 2: And carry Champion. Hey, everybody, thank you for listening to

472
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 2: Naked with Carrie Champion.

473
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 3: Jamal Hill is still here and she's giving out free

474
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,199
Speaker 3: jewelry as I say, dropping gems.

475
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoy now when you do. Like, there

476
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 2: are so many differences.

477
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 3: I've noticed a lot of people do the we'll write

478
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 3: a book and then they do a follow up, which

479
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 3: is probably what you'll do or whatever.

480
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 2: A follow up would be a book too.

481
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 3: Is there anything that you learned about the writing process

482
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 3: about telling your story? Was it largely cathartic or was

483
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 3: it largely painful bringing up those memories?

484
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 2: So?

485
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I guess you could never say never,

486
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: and and we know that sometimes that chick can do

487
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: a lot of talking to you.

488
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 2: I don't anticipate there will be a follow up to this, okay,

489
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 2: So this is it to cut you sliding down hill

490
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 2: Part two the right.

491
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: Right exactly like Oh remember I said it was gonna

492
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: be a part two. Wow, the publisher decided up, but no, I.

493
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 2: Wrote it. The reason I wrote it as honestly and

494
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 2: was this raw in.

495
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 1: This book was because there is no part too, or

496
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: at least I went into it with that mentality.

497
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 2: But I learned a lot about the writing process itself.

498
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: One I think I took this for granted as a journalist,

499
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 1: because you're as a print journalist.

500
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 2: I'm used to working on deadline and so you know,

501
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 2: how we write with our hair on fire all the time.

502
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 1: It's sometimes it's not very discipline how we approach a

503
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 1: story and writing.

504
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 2: Because we do it, I feel and it can be

505
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 2: quite a process.

506
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: This really drove home how much writing is a discipline,

507
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: and I realized how undisciplined of a writer that I

508
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: really am, because I write what I feel like it generally, like,

509
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: even if I know I have a story due on Friday,

510
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: I may wait till Friday at two am to write

511
00:26:58,800 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 1: the story.

512
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 2: I'll crack it out. It'll be great, it'll get done.

513
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: But I'm just used to kind of going to my

514
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: own clock to finish something, and you can't do a

515
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 1: book like that. And Walter Mosley gave me the best advice,

516
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: the very prolific author, Walter Mosley, and he told me,

517
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 1: you know something he practices is that no matter where

518
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: he is in the world, he writes for at least

519
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: two hours a day. He sets the schedule, writes during

520
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: that time. Whether it's great trash, doesn't matter, he's writing.

521
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: And that advice was really very life changing for me

522
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: for this book, because I wasn't on the writing schedule

523
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: before I had that conversation with Walter Mosley. And finally

524
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 1: I said, you know what, He's right, like, I gotta

525
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 1: stop haphazardly doing this because you know, to give a writer,

526
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: especially a career journalist a deadline that says like, oh,

527
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: you know, it's January. They talk about your first draft

528
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 1: is in due till like October. I'm like, you, guys,

529
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: don't know who you're talking to. Like now, that was

530
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: the wrong thing to tell on me, all right, because

531
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: God knows I'm away to September twenty ninth to start this.

532
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 3: I was like, what, no, Heart, I'll write my books

533
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 3: Optimber twenty ninth.

534
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 2: Give you a draft, smart exactly, exactly exactly my life. Hey,

535
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 2: give me that kind of draft of my life. Stir.

536
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.

537
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: Because what I was doing, though, what I was doing, Carrie,

538
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 1: is that I would be writing for I would write

539
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: NonStop for like a week straight, turn out fifty pages,

540
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: and it wouldn't write again for like another month.

541
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 2: Like it was like, I can't do that, right, So

542
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 2: I put myself out of schedule. It worked masterfully. That

543
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 2: is how I got the manuscript finished. Is by doing that.

544
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 2: I had to buckle down and give myself hardcore times.

545
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 2: Usually in the morning. I wrote a lot to Gray's

546
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 2: Anatomy and this is us And that's what I did.

547
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 3: Okay, Auntie, I love this for you, all right, you'll

548
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 3: never Okay, I do want to say this. Then this

549
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 3: is just a full endorsement. You guys going get the book.

550
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 3: It is really truly it's inspirational and it's honest. It's naked.

551
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 3: And I saw the other day. This is when it

552
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 3: really hit home to me that you just never know

553
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 3: who's listening and watching. And I didn't know if you

554
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 3: knew this, but I saw that JR. Smith, retired basketball

555
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 3: player in the middle of an involvement process himself, tweeted

556
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 3: about how he listened it to your book as he

557
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 3: drove from Florida back to LA I believe, how'd that

558
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 3: make you feel great?

559
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: I mean, you had asked me earlier about the response,

560
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: and I don't think I answered that question effectively enough.

561
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 2: It's like the response has been tremendous.

562
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: And there's no greater delight that I get as an

563
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: author when people come up to me and say, hey,

564
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: I read your book and this is what I took

565
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: away from it. And it allows us to have like

566
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: kind of a quick but somewhat personal, you know, conversation,

567
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: and you never know where your book shows up either,

568
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: and JR.

569
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: Smith's a great testament to that.

570
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: Like there's been so much unexpected praise that I've received

571
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: from it. Because when you put out something that is

572
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: this personal, that you are really bearing your soul and

573
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: you're exposing yourself your family, like the things that you

574
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: have gone through, you never know how that's going to

575
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: be received.

576
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 2: And typically because I've.

577
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: Been writing for such a long time, but I've been

578
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: writing about other people for such a long time. So

579
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: when people respond negatively to something I've written in the

580
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: Atlantic or when I was at ESPN dot com or

581
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: when I had a newspaper career, it didn't hit the

582
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: same because it was like they just disagreed. So what

583
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: it's a bunch of people that agree or I don't

584
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: really care because the writing. While I took pride in

585
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: what I wrote, it wasn't as personal because I'm writing

586
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: about something else.

587
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 2: This is personal. So if somebody is like, I don't

588
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 2: like your book, or you know, I feel that sort

589
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 2: of sinse.

590
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: Of rejection, it's gonna hurt. My feeling is because you're

591
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: saying you don't like me, you don't like my life.

592
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 2: It's what you're saying. So it's gotta hit a little

593
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 2: bit different. You know with JR.

594
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 3: That I know.

595
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 2: I shouldn't. It shouldn't be that way.

596
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: I should be at this big age, I should be

597
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: further along in my emotional development. But it's hard because

598
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: it is writing is very personal, and this kind of

599
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: writing about a memoir is extremely personal.

600
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: So when I saw the JR.

601
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: Smith said that, I was like, oh my god, like that,

602
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: because one he is not somebody I would have expected

603
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,239
Speaker 1: to pick up my book at all, So for him

604
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: to say that, I was like, Oh my goodness, like, JR.

605
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 2: Smith, Okay, that's a great, a really really great endorsement.

606
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 1: And even some of my friends who I know, we all,

607
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: like you said, you have a lot of friends who

608
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: have written books, and it gets hard sometimes because the

609
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: rate in which we turn a knee suckers out.

610
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 2: It makes it hard to keep up with him.

611
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: But I tried to very intentionally read all of my

612
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: friend's books, and it is hard to do and it

613
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: may take me a while to do it, but I

614
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: always circle back when I've read it and say, hey,

615
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed your book and this is why. And

616
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: I try to be Smith because I know what that

617
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: means as an author. So if you read the book

618
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: and you don't like it, please don't tell me, because

619
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: clearly I'm dealing with very precarious self esteem here as.

620
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 2: It relates to this book.

621
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 3: You. I think a lot of people thought you were

622
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: going to write about Donald Trump and in a very intimate,

623
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 3: probably more detailed, much more substantial way of the book,

624
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 3: and you didn't make it purposefully a part of your book.

625
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: In that way. I wonder when you talked about people the.

626
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 3: Donald Trump incident and ESPN, did you lose any relationships?

627
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 3: You said your I talked about family members, But what

628
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 3: relationships did you lose and or gain because of what

629
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 3: you route about in your truth anyway? But by way

630
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 3: of background, can you tell everybody what happened? It's not

631
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 3: like they're under a rock. But when you left us ESPN,

632
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 3: it was due in large part because Donald Trump was

633
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 3: coming after you, and he made your life uncomfortable at

634
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 3: a network that was unwilling to stand up for what

635
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 3: was what I believe, what was right.

636
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, ooh, you summed that up pretty nicely.

637
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean in twenty seventeen, I created a

638
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: bit of an international situation when I criticized the President

639
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: on Twitter and called him a white supremacist and a bigot.

640
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: And said he was unfit for office, and yes I did.

641
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: It was shocking, shocking at the time, and that went

642
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: all the way up to the White House because the

643
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: Press secretary at the time, Sara Huckabee Sanders, now the

644
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: governor of Arkansas, a job I'm sure she'll be equally

645
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: terrible at she said that what I said was fireable.

646
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: Donald Donald Trump said I owed him an apology. He

647
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: also said I deserved to be fired, and that I

648
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: was dragging ESPN's ratings down.

649
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 2: It was a whole big thing.

650
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: And ESPN when the President came after me, they were

651
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: they were silent, they didn't say anything, and so I

652
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: was very disappointed in their reaction. This is an incident

653
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: that I detail in the book. Obviously in my time

654
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 1: at ESPN period, I mean, I was there for twelve years.

655
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: But what I didn't want, because I feel this way

656
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: in general, is like I don't want if Donald Trump

657
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 1: is in the first paragraph of my obituary, I will

658
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: have failed. And that is always how I saw our

659
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: unfortunate connection, is that I don't want to be a part.

660
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: I don't want him to be a part of my narrative.

661
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a part of a story that's told,

662
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 1: but he's not a part of my personal narrative, and

663
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: I wanted to be sure, or I wanted to make

664
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: sure that ESPN did not absorb so much of my story.

665
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: It was twelve years of my life, and that's a

666
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: significant amount of time. It is the longest job that

667
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: I've ever had. But I didn't want the book to

668
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: be about ESPN. I wanted it to be just about

669
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: my time at ESPN as a part of a larger

670
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: piece within my story, because there was so much more

671
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: that I'd lived and experienced, and so that was very intentional.

672
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: That's why ESPN's at the back of the book. So

673
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 1: if you look at for all the ESPN stuff, it's

674
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: like in the last three or four chapters. If if

675
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: it's that important to you now. In terms of how

676
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,879
Speaker 1: people at ESPN viewed the book, I don't know. I mean,

677
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't I've heard from you know. The

678
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 1: person I heard from was John Skippers, the former president

679
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: of ESPN. He read the book and as he texted me,

680
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: he said, I was far kinder to him than he deserved,

681
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: and I appreciated them. Yeah, we worked together, so we're

682
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: you know, we well we were able to repair our

683
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 1: relationship because it was a really good one before that

684
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 1: all happened. And so he went through some personal struggles

685
00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: as people know, and you know, eventually left ESPN himself.

686
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: He left before before I did, and so there's you

687
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: know that that fits had long ago mended. But in

688
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: terms of like the people that I wrote about from ESPN,

689
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: I have no idea how they felt about the book. Obviously,

690
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: whatever it was, it en pissed them off enough to

691
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: talk to call me and tell me, or you know,

692
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: maybe they just felt kind of like indifferent to it.

693
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 2: So I have no idea. But I didn't write it.

694
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: With the intention of getting any sort of reaction from

695
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: them anyway, So it just kind of I think they

696
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 1: probably put it in the camp of it kind of

697
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: is what it is that find it.

698
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 3: Interesting because I do believe that, well, I'm glad no

699
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 3: one said anything to you, and it sounds like to

700
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 3: me that it's that they didn't have enough guts to

701
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,879
Speaker 3: even if they did. They couldn't challenge your truth because

702
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 3: one is your truth. But when you really call people out,

703
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 3: they you know, they can't take issue with what you

704
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 3: have said. If there are receipts I wonder if there

705
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 3: was a relationship that you could mend in addition to

706
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 3: John Skipper you were able to do that.

707
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: Is there any other relationships that you had while working

708
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 2: there that you would like, that you would want to

709
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 2: mend or change?

710
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 4: You know?

711
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,919
Speaker 1: I hope that people, I mean people that are there

712
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,439
Speaker 1: like should realize like I don't hold any animosity toward

713
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: ESPN at all, Like I think professionally, it was wonderful

714
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 1: for my career, and it really being there and being

715
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: on the mini platforms that they have really did teach

716
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: me how to be a better journalist. And so I

717
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: am grateful for the time that I had there. But

718
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: it was very much a It's a conditional relationship, just

719
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: like it is with any employer. Like you provide a service,

720
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: they pay you to do that service, and then when

721
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 1: that time comes, and often when that time comes, usually

722
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: it's not within your control. I was looking enough to

723
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: leave on my own terms, and so no, I don't

724
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: have any animosity toward there. And so the relationships that

725
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: I'm wanted to maintain with people who are at ESPN,

726
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: I maintained those because I considered them to be true friends.

727
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: The ones that I didn't I didn't because I didn't

728
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: feel like I felt like our time was done. You know,

729
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: there's some people there who I feel like that I

730
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: consider to be very disingenuous, and I don't I didn't

731
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: really sort of appreciate their professional capacities and some of

732
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 1: the decisions they made that impacted my career. Like I mean,

733
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: like we ain't gonna never see out of eye and

734
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: I don't, you know, we don't have to really fuck

735
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: with each other like that. So it's that that's fine,

736
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 1: but I don't you know, no, no, ILL will not

737
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: towards you know, like I'm working with them again with

738
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: this Kaepernick documentary, So obviously I don't have a issue

739
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,240
Speaker 1: working with the network.

740
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 2: I have an issue with how certain people made some decisions.

741
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: But you know, other than that, I mean, I consider

742
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 1: that to be part of sort of corporate politics protocol.

743
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 2: So yeah, no attics, how they move. Yeah, yeah, that's

744
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 2: what it is. It's what it is.

745
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 1: It happens that every place I've worked, the ESPN is

746
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: not unique in that in that situation.

747
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 5: Every champion and carry champion is to be a champion,

748
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 5: a champion and carry champion, and Cary Chap beat a

749
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 5: champion and carry chappion and carry chap.

750
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 2: Entertainment. Can naked weirder.

751
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 5: Kerry champion and carry champion is to be a champion,

752
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 5: a champion and carry champion champion and carry champion and

753
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 5: carried chapientertainment.

754
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 2: Get naked word Yeah on the outside looking in.

755
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 3: And because I know this intimately, I think that you

756
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 3: are living a far more free life. And that means

757
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 3: you can say, you can do, You can come and

758
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 3: go as you please, You can tweet freely, You could

759
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 3: do all the things you call if if you chose to,

760
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 3: you can call Trump any name that you felt were appropriate.

761
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 3: And by the way, saying that in twenty seventeen was

762
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 3: so new. Now it's just like saying what you thought

763
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 3: you were saying, water is wet. So I'm curious about

764
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 3: life now for you. You wrote a book, you started

765
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,760
Speaker 3: a production company. You are here eping to Colin Kaepernick

766
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 3: dot that will be on ESPN executive producer, I think

767
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 3: by Spike Lee. And you have been able to accomplish

768
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 3: so much. You had a network at Spotify, you have

769
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 3: all these different things. Is there something else that's still

770
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 3: out there that you want to do? How do you

771
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 3: see your career trajectory going now or you just take

772
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 3: it as it comes.

773
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 1: So I do think I've gotten some clarity recently, and

774
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: I guess as just as a matter of slight correction.

775
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: Is like Spike Lee's directing, I'm executive producing.

776
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 3: Oh bye bye bad, Yes, my bad, Spike Lee's the director,

777
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 3: Jamel's EP.

778
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: Right, I would be god is So I thought you were, well,

779
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 1: I'm not directing. I mean, I I appreciate that though,

780
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: carry I was like, you know, I appreciate you putting.

781
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:11,919
Speaker 2: Me in that seat.

782
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: Not yet, not yet, okay, which I mean, it's it's

783
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 1: it was a very timely slip because you know, I

784
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: have recently been presented with some opportunities to direct, and

785
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 1: I think one project in particular, I think I'm gonna

786
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 1: take them up on it.

787
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 2: And so I think that is something that is definitely, Yeah,

788
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 2: that's definitely in my future, is directing. So breaking, I

789
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 2: would say, breaking news? Is it now? She about to

790
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 2: take over Gina's possition?

791
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: Okay, No, I don't know about all that, you know,

792
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: and I just say anything about you know more on

793
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 1: the documentary side. Let me let me get my let

794
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 1: me get my feet wet, let me get my feet wet. Okay,

795
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not quite ready for a feature film

796
00:41:58,480 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: at this point.

797
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 2: But king okay, Regina, King, Okay, let me stop.

798
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: But and I do think that there's still a television

799
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: play for me out there as well. You know, I've

800
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: been meeting with some folks recently to talk about, you know,

801
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: sort of returning to to television, to sports in particular.

802
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,439
Speaker 2: So uh So I think I will.

803
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 1: I think I will get back in the mix with

804
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: things there because there are parts of it that I

805
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: miss about being able to to talk about sports, and

806
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: not just about the heaviness of sports, but about the

807
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 1: likeness of sports, the things, you know, the the actual

808
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: games and the the people and the drama and the

809
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: and the things that we love about sports. There there

810
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: are still, you know, a part of me that that

811
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: wants to be in on that conversation. So uh I

812
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 1: think over the next two years that there would be

813
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: a focus on that, and I think my work behind

814
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: the camera is probably good to get a lot more intense.

815
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 1: So those are the things immediately I see on the horizon.

816
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: And something I just spoken to, I spoken to existence

817
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:11,399
Speaker 1: like just a few days ago.

818
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 2: I want to retire early.

819
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: I really do, Like I didn't realize how much I

820
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: wanted to do this until recently about retire early. As

821
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: we know, we have the kind of jobs because it's

822
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: not physical labor, even though it can be taxing on

823
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 1: you physically, and says say, you know, the tiredness, the

824
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 1: emotional and mental drain. But I don't want to be

825
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,479
Speaker 1: doing this for like another thirty years. There's some people

826
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: in our profession who like they gonna be at that

827
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: anchor desk. They gonna die at anchor desks. I'm like that,

828
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: that is not gonna be my testimony. That is not.

829
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 2: So now. It's about like doing you know what I'm saying.

830
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 1: It's about doing the things I really love to do

831
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: and am passionate about. I'm gonna go hard like the

832
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: next probably seven to ten years, and after that I

833
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 1: think I'm gonna be done.

834
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 2: I think I will be done. So I got to

835
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 2: tend your window.

836
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 3: Dear Father, God, God, I'd like to say a prayer

837
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 3: right now, Dear heavily Father, if you were listening to

838
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 3: me and my sister Jamel, we would like an early retirement,

839
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 3: and Jesus the same we prayed.

840
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 2: Amen. I just thought I had manifest that with you

841
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:19,720
Speaker 2: as well, because I too.

842
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: Thank you.

843
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 2: I touch it agree, I touch and agree, such and

844
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 2: agree went to Gabba in his name, Father God. You

845
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, Bring us home, deacon his carry,

846
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 2: bring us home. Amen. Oh no, okay, I do love

847
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 2: that for you.

848
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 4: I have.

849
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 3: There is something about our generation specifically. I was just

850
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 3: talked to my best friend Kendre about this. She was like, oh, no,

851
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:47,919
Speaker 3: I'm retiring early. And my mother was like, you can't

852
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 3: do that.

853
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 2: I was like, no, no, no, we can. It's this.

854
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 2: We are like, we're done. We did it. We did that.

855
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 5: Now.

856
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 3: I want to be a lady of leisure. I have

857
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 3: no problem of being a lady of leisure. I do

858
00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 3: it quite well.

859
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 2: What would you do? I mean, I take a project

860
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 2: here and there, But what would you do in retirement? Well,

861
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 2: and not only that, we got to think about it

862
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 2: this way.

863
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: Most of us, you know, most of your friends, we've

864
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: been working since we were six.

865
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 2: So it's like we don't laurel a lot of time,

866
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,720
Speaker 2: child labor, child labor.

867
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: What I'm saying, I've been working since I was thirteen

868
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 1: years old, and I don't say that like that makes

869
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 1: me in any way special.

870
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 2: But that's a long ass time, Like I'm over.

871
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 3: Twel my je it's wow, yeah, hi twelve by gee,

872
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 3: I've been working since I was twelve.

873
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 2: I'm out of here. We did our fifty years almost,

874
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying.

875
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 1: I was like, it's gotta be a cutoff because when

876
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: I retire, Yeah, when I retire, I want to retire

877
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: at an age where I could I could still be

878
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: be sprit out here in these streets, where I could

879
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 1: gallivant still.

880
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Girl, So I cannot.

881
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 3: I need to still be out here getting my high

882
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 3: girl Auntie on retired you, I'm right there with you.

883
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 2: I don't want it. I don't want it. So what

884
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 2: do you want to do? What do you think you

885
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 2: want to do when you retire?

886
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 3: I say that, but then I wonder people, I wonder

887
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 3: if people like us who are constantly stimulated or looking

888
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 3: to be stimulated outside of just normal discourse and books,

889
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 3: what do you do?

890
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 2: So you know, I really would love to live on

891
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:24,240
Speaker 2: a beach somewhere.

892
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: And well, honestly, I guess I should put retire in

893
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: air quotes because I will always write and so like,

894
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 1: if I could retire and just write books. Oh my god,

895
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 1: sign me up for that life any day, live on

896
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 1: the beach, drink camrabal tea every morning.

897
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 2: And whiskey at night. Like that, that is that is

898
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 2: my life.

899
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: Okay, you know me and my husband old sent up

900
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: there playing scrabble and uh watching Jeopardy every night.

901
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 2: Yet that that is my life. Okay. I love that

902
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 2: for you. I love that for you. I wish that

903
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: for you. I want everybody to go out and get

904
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 2: my friend's book. It is really special.

905
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 3: And even when you're like at an airport, maybe do

906
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 3: it then, because sometimes she randomly just goes into an

907
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 3: airport and just start signing books. So go get a

908
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 3: signed copy, you know.

909
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 2: What I mean. I love that you do that.

910
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 3: I look for your book every single bookstore I go to,

911
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 3: especially being on the East Coast, there's so many bookstores.

912
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 3: I look every single I look. I take a picture

913
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 3: of all. It's just a blessing. Your friends write books,

914
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 3: is what I should call this podcast, because it's a

915
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 3: blessing to go in and see all my friends.

916
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 2: Right. But I'm like, that's my friend's book, that's my

917
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 2: friend's book, that's my first book. It's just amazing.

918
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 3: It's an amazing thing, and it's an amazing accomplishment, and

919
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 3: I just want you not to lose sight of that,

920
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 3: because in fact, so many of our people do have books.

921
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 3: With that being said, I appreciate you joining me on

922
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,240
Speaker 3: the Naked podcast. Is there anything people should be looking

923
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 3: forward to or supporting outside of getting your book?

924
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 1: Oh? Well, well, I guess Speaking of the book, the

925
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 1: paperback is coming out this October, So if for some

926
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: reason you have a version of hercover books, the paperback

927
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:00,040
Speaker 1: will be out in the fall. And of course for

928
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: all of those who prefer the audio version, as JR.

929
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: Smith clearly does, then I did do my own audiobook,

930
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: so you'd have to put up with my voice for

931
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 1: a couple of hours.

932
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 2: But yeah, make sure that you get the book wherever

933
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:14,879
Speaker 2: books are sold.

934
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 3: Hey, everybody, I hope you all enjoyed the very first

935
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 3: episode of season three of Naked with Carrie Champion. It

936
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 3: is still my pleasure and my honor to give you

937
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 3: guys these very truthful stories. I hope you learned something

938
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 3: I really do. And I got to give a shout

939
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 3: out to my girl Jamal because she really got naked.

940
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 3: She didn't have on no clothes, no bra, no panny,

941
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 3: no nothing. She telling all the business and it's hard

942
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 3: to do that, but it does remind me when you

943
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 3: talk about tough things. It takes away shame, it takes

944
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 3: away pain, It takes away all those ingredients that make

945
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,280
Speaker 3: you keep secrets because secrets are powerful.

946
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 2: And I hope again you learned something today. Go out

947
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 2: and work on a relationship.

948
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 3: Make it better, leave it alone, pick it up, put

949
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 3: it down, do something, but just be naked.

950
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 2: I appreciate you. Off of listening, and I'll talk to

951
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 2: you next week.