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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how stupp

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Caroline and I'm Kristen, and today's episode is dedicated to

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Speaker 1: a very special woman. This is one big happy birthday

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Speaker 1: card sealed with a kiss to miss Dolly Parton. That's right,

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Speaker 1: filled with a kiss and lots of glitz and glamor.

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Speaker 1: But Dolly Parton, her sixty eighth birthday was on January nineteenth,

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Speaker 1: and we figured we should do an entire episode on her.

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Speaker 1: And even though we're devoting an entire podcast just to Dolly,

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Speaker 1: it was hard to fit Dolly's life and accomplishments into

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Speaker 1: only one recording. Caroline. Yeah, we started going through this

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Speaker 1: timeline of her life and all of her awards and

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Speaker 1: her accomplishments and things, and I'm reading through it and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, okay, so she did this, and she

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Speaker 1: won this, and she wrote this, and then she's are

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Speaker 1: in this and I'm like, wait, no, I can't even

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Speaker 1: keep track of all of this stuff because she has

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Speaker 1: done so much in her sixty eight years. And we

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Speaker 1: figured that she definitely deserved her own podcast because it's

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Speaker 1: her birthday and she's Dolly, and Dolly really deserves the

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Speaker 1: world if you ask me. But she was an incredible

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Speaker 1: it still is an incredible businesswoman. She's a legendary performer,

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Speaker 1: still performing, still touring, and she's often cited too as

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Speaker 1: a feminist icon, even though that's not necessarily a label

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Speaker 1: that she puts on herself. And she's one of those

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Speaker 1: unique people where no matter where on the political spectrum

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Speaker 1: you are, she everybody seems to love her. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: much so that she is actually filling the Glastonbury Legend

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Speaker 1: slot during this huge festival's Sunday night performance in Yeah Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, because who wouldn't want to still see Dolly Parton.

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Speaker 1: She's neabulous, she can do anything, she can wear anything,

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Speaker 1: she can say anything, she can go anywhere, and people

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Speaker 1: love her yeah uh, and she's incredibly talented to it.

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Speaker 1: We can't even hit all of the high points of

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Speaker 1: her career because there are simply too many to list

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Speaker 1: and that would become the most boring podcast in the world.

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Speaker 1: But for instance, she's written over three thousand songs, and

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Speaker 1: twenty five of those songs have been certified gold, platinum

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Speaker 1: and multi platinum, and she has garnered seven Grammy Awards,

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Speaker 1: ten Country Music Association Awards, five Academy of Country Music Awards,

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Speaker 1: three American Music Awards, and is only one of five

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Speaker 1: female artists to win the Country Music Association's Entertainer of

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Speaker 1: the Year award. And that's not even all. That's not all, Kristen.

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Speaker 1: She's the first artist to earn a number one record

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Speaker 1: twice with I Will Always Love You Yeah. And just

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Speaker 1: on a side note of what a what a persistent

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Speaker 1: and diligent businesswoman she is in the songwriting field, the

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Speaker 1: U S Copyright Office database shows eight hundred and sixty

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Speaker 1: two entries for Dolly Partners, either author or claimant, and

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Speaker 1: that wouldn't even include all of her copyrighted songs because

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Speaker 1: the database started collecting after she was writing songs. So

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Speaker 1: she's always been very much focused on her goal of

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Speaker 1: being who she is today, of this incredibly famous, talented,

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Speaker 1: successful performer, and has always been really diligent as well,

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Speaker 1: and on the business side of things, of making sure

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Speaker 1: that Dolly Parton gets her due for all of the

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Speaker 1: hard work that she has put into not just her

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Speaker 1: hair and makeup and clothes right well, so on the

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Speaker 1: business side of things, you know, obviously she has her

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Speaker 1: Dollywood amusement parks. She also has a production company called

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Speaker 1: sand Dollar, which, by the way, produced TV's Buffy the

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Speaker 1: Vampire Slayer. She also has a record label, because why

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Speaker 1: wouldn't she. Yeah, yeah, it's called Dolly Records, because of

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Speaker 1: course it would be called Dolly Records. On top of that,

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Speaker 1: she is an author her memoirs called My Life An

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Speaker 1: Other Unfinished Business, and she's also written a children's book,

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Speaker 1: The Coat of Many Colors, right after her song of

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Speaker 1: the same name, all about, you know, being a poor

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Speaker 1: child growing up in Tennessee and her mother's stitching together

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Speaker 1: this coat out of rags and being made fun of

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Speaker 1: at school. But now who's laughing? That's right all the

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Speaker 1: way to the bank in her sequin outfit. God, she's amazing.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing. Well, so I have said this on the

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Speaker 1: podcast before, but you know, Dolly is an actress as well,

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Speaker 1: and she is in one of my favorite movies of

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Speaker 1: all time. She debuted in nineteen eighties, Nine to five

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Speaker 1: with Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin. Yeah, it's hard to

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Speaker 1: recommend Nine to five enough because it's hilarious and it's

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Speaker 1: not only Dolly Parton, but it's also Jane Fonda and

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Speaker 1: Lily Tomlin, and they are an incredible trio with a

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Speaker 1: fabulous eighties wardrobe. And there's some bizarre plot points, but

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Speaker 1: you've got to love it for what it is, which

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Speaker 1: is a snapshot of when women are really trying to

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Speaker 1: make their way into the workplace and have to deal

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Speaker 1: with all these sexist male bosses and they're not having

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Speaker 1: any of it. That's right. And there's a shotgun involved

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Speaker 1: in some bondage. It's great. Um. She also had roles

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Speaker 1: in Steel, Magnolia's Best Little Horhouse in Texas, rhyin Stone,

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Speaker 1: and Straight Talk, in addition to TV shows, made for

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Speaker 1: TV movies, HBO Specials, the whole Thing. Yeah. I think

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Speaker 1: one of her most recent guest darring roles was on

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Speaker 1: Hannah Montana because, come to find out, she's Miley Cyrus's godmother. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: She has stuck up for Miley through a lot of

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Speaker 1: this rigamarole in the media. Yeah, because I mean, Dollies

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Speaker 1: had to deal with her own rigamarole as well, but

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Speaker 1: she's always handled it very gracefully because when it comes

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Speaker 1: to Dolly, she she's just been so singularly focused on

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Speaker 1: success and wanting to achieve her goals and accepting herself

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Speaker 1: completely for who she is. And it's kind of like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm Dolly. You can take me or leave me, but

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Speaker 1: you're gonna take me because I'm precious. But we've got

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Speaker 1: to go through her musical timeline as well, because it's

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Speaker 1: incredible how early her talent emerged. Because in in ninety six,

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Speaker 1: she was born in Locust Ridge, Tennessee, and she wrote

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Speaker 1: her first song in nineteen fifty one, she's five years old,

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Speaker 1: and she wrote a song called Tiny Little Tasseltop and

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Speaker 1: it was about this homemade doll that was made out

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Speaker 1: of corn husks, and it was her friend. Yeah, to

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Speaker 1: further flesh out this image, Dolly was the fourth of

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Speaker 1: twelve children, several of whom would later go on to

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Speaker 1: perform with her, and she was exposed to music thanks

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Speaker 1: to her mother, who stang, and thanks to music in church.

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Speaker 1: She's stanging a lot in church. And in nineteen fifty three,

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Speaker 1: so the timeline goes, she makes her first guitar out

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Speaker 1: of an old mandolin and two bass guitar strings. But

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Speaker 1: bio dot com said that a relative gave her first guitar,

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Speaker 1: so I'm not really sure, what the real story is

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Speaker 1: on that. I'm gonna believe that she made her first

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Speaker 1: guitar because she's Dolly and uh. Side note, a lot

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Speaker 1: of this timeline is coming from the Library of Congress

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Speaker 1: because she is a living legend from the in the

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Speaker 1: Library of Congress, So she's she's actually a bona fide

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Speaker 1: national icon. Uh And in nineteen fifty six, by this point,

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Speaker 1: she's become a regular singer on Knoxville's Cass Walker Show.

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Speaker 1: So she's ten years old and she's already having these

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Speaker 1: public gigs. Yeah. And in nineteen fifties seven, she makes

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Speaker 1: her first recording, Puppy Love on Gold Band Records. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In in in nineteen fifty nine, she gives her first performance

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Speaker 1: at the Grand Ol Operate No Big Deal, um. And

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Speaker 1: further No Big Deal, she's introduced by Johnny Cash and

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Speaker 1: performs his song you Gotta Be My Baby, earning three

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Speaker 1: encores at her performance. But she knows at this point

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Speaker 1: that she has to make the move to Nashville. She's

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Speaker 1: got to get out of Severeville where she's growing up,

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Speaker 1: into the big city if she's actually going to make it. Because,

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Speaker 1: as she was telling Terry Gross in a Fresh Air

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Speaker 1: interview in the early two thousand's, she didn't want to

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Speaker 1: have the life that her mom had. She you know,

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Speaker 1: she has what seven younger siblings, eight younger siblings, and

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Speaker 1: she essentially is already mother to these kids growing up.

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Speaker 1: And she was like, I was already, you know, I'd

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Speaker 1: already been a mother. I really wanted to be a woman,

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Speaker 1: and a successful woman at that. So she moves to Nashville,

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Speaker 1: and the first day that she's there, she goes to

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Speaker 1: a laundry Matt called the Wishy Washy, and that's where

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Speaker 1: she meets her soon to be husband, Carl Dean. So

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Speaker 1: after marrying, dreambout Carl Dean, who is very tall and handsome. Um,

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Speaker 1: she goes on to chart. She on January twenty first,

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven, she first appeared on the Billboard Country

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Speaker 1: charts with two singles recorded for Monument, Dumb Blonde at

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Speaker 1: number twenty four and Something Fishy at number seventeen. And

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Speaker 1: you gotta love dumb Blonde coming out at this in

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Speaker 1: this era, because it just really attacked stereotypes about women. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: one of the lines of lyrics goes, just because I'm blonde,

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Speaker 1: don't think I'm dumb. Because this dumb Blonde ain't nobody's fool.

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Speaker 1: And that's one of the reasons why Dolly is so

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Speaker 1: well loved, whether you're a country fan or not, is

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Speaker 1: because she has always been very pro women and and

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Speaker 1: very much stands up for herself. But nineteen sixty seven,

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Speaker 1: the year Dumb Blonde comes out, is huge for Dolly

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Speaker 1: because she releases her first full length album, Hello I'm Dolly,

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Speaker 1: and then on September five of that year, she first

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Speaker 1: appears on The Porter Wagner Show. And I have a

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Speaker 1: feeling that a lot of people have probably listening have

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Speaker 1: probably not heard of Porter Wagner. But this was a

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Speaker 1: huge break because the show at the time had and

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Speaker 1: a half million viewers a week, and Porter Wagner was

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Speaker 1: this country star, this older kind of gentleman who would

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Speaker 1: wear these razzle dazzle rhyin stone and tassely jackets and

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Speaker 1: called Dolly his little lady. And he he had this

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Speaker 1: female sidekick for a while named Norma Jean, But then

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Speaker 1: Norma Jean left and Dolly came on the show and

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Speaker 1: she was a huge hit. Yeah, she initially told Porter

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Speaker 1: Wagner that she'd only stay five years because you know,

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Speaker 1: she she was on a mission. This was a lady

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Speaker 1: on a mission, and she wanted to start her own

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Speaker 1: solo career, but she ended up saying two years past that,

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Speaker 1: and during this time she she managed to land a

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Speaker 1: contract with r C A Records thanks to her partnership

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Speaker 1: with Wagner, and scored her first number one country hit

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one with Joshua and from there, the

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Speaker 1: years nineteen seventy four to nineteen seventy are huge as

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Speaker 1: her star really begins to rise with the help of

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Speaker 1: being on The Porter Wagner Show. But she really pretty

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Speaker 1: quickly from that point starts to become a star in

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Speaker 1: her own right, because in nineteen seventy four, we have

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Speaker 1: Jolene Yes Joe Line Caroline. Since I started researching for

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Speaker 1: this episode, Joe Lene has been in my head because

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Speaker 1: it's such a catchy, such a catchy old tune, you know.

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Speaker 1: But it reached number one on the country charts and

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Speaker 1: number sixty on the pop charts, which the fact that

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Speaker 1: she's already crossing over onto the pop charts is pretty huge.

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Speaker 1: And from there, her next four singles also reach number

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Speaker 1: one on the country's charts, which include I Will Always

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Speaker 1: Love You, which she wrote for Porter Wagner as her

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Speaker 1: song to say, listen, dude, I said I was gonna

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Speaker 1: stay for this long five years. I've already stayed two

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Speaker 1: more years. I'll always love you. I gotta go. Thing's

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Speaker 1: gonna be better for us in the end. It's actually

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Speaker 1: not really a love song as you might think it

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Speaker 1: would be if you've heard the Whitney Houston version from

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Speaker 1: the Bodyguard. But it was really Dolly Parton kind of saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, you gotta go, come on, I I gotta go,

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Speaker 1: you gotta go. That it's not about Kevin Costner. It's

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Speaker 1: not about Kevin Costner. Well, but you know what it

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Speaker 1: can be about Kevin Costner if you want it to be.

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Speaker 1: I want every song to be about Kevin Costner. And

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Speaker 1: so within this this very short time, I mean seventy

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Speaker 1: eight that's not actually that long. But she won the

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Speaker 1: CMA Female Vocalist of the Year award. She gets her

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Speaker 1: own syndicated TV show. She ends her long professional association

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Speaker 1: with Porter Wagner. She releases New Harvest First Gathering, her

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Speaker 1: first self produced album, and the single from that album,

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Speaker 1: Here You Come Again, hit number three on the pop charts. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that album ended up going platinum, making Dolly Parton

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Speaker 1: the first female artist to have an album sell one

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Speaker 1: million copies. And Here You Come Again earned part in

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Speaker 1: her very first Grammy for Best Country Vocal Performance by

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Speaker 1: a Female, and the accolades don't stop there. Hits to

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Speaker 1: five is released, Dolly earns a Golden Globe nomination for

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Speaker 1: Best Supporting Actress, Best New Film Star, and Best Original Song,

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Speaker 1: as well as the People's Choice Award for Favorite Movie

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Speaker 1: Song and an Oscar nomination for the title song, It

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Speaker 1: is that catchy, people, It is so catchy. And from

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Speaker 1: there she stars in Two is Best Little Horhouse in Texas,

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Speaker 1: and her remake of I Will Always Love You for

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Speaker 1: the soundtrack earns a Grammy nomination. Six, She's inducted into

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Speaker 1: the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame nineteen eighties, six Dollywood opens,

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Speaker 1: and in more recent years, because of all of these

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Speaker 1: accolades that we have been blowing through, we haven't even

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Speaker 1: told you every single one of them, she is essentially

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Speaker 1: now just starting to earn the Lifetime awards like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we just think you're awesome, Dolly. And so in two

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Speaker 1: thousand four, that's when she received a Living Legend Metal

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Speaker 1: from the Library of Congress. And in two thousand and six,

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Speaker 1: she was one of the celebrities recognized at the Kennedy

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Speaker 1: Center Honors. And I like how recently she received a

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Speaker 1: Lifetime Achievement Award from the Grammy Awards, because I think

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Speaker 1: what she already gotten like seven of them, and they're

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Speaker 1: like Grammys were like, listen, Dolly, just here's an award.

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Speaker 1: Just can you stop being so awesome? Other people have

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Speaker 1: to get awards, um, But she's not only popular though

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Speaker 1: in the United States. I'm sure we have some international

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Speaker 1: listeners who were well aware of Dolly Parton. But academically,

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Speaker 1: the one study I was surprised, the one study that

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Speaker 1: we could find on Dolly Parton was about how popular

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Speaker 1: she is in Zimbabwe. Yeah, this was this was surprising

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Speaker 1: to me. But Jonathan Zilberg basically did like this anthropological

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Speaker 1: look at the popularity that not only Dolly has, but

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Speaker 1: country music has in Zimbabwe. And a lot of it

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Speaker 1: just has to do with, you know, the entertainment that's

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Speaker 1: piped through the TV and the radio and the fact

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Speaker 1: that people identify with it. But you know, he looked

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Speaker 1: at Okay, well, why why do why this like blonde,

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Speaker 1: you know, big boobed, white American woman, Like what is

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Speaker 1: it about her? And he cites, you know, a lot

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Speaker 1: of her lyrics and her story itself, her rags to

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Speaker 1: richest story, the fact that she did come from twelve

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Speaker 1: children in the hills of Appalachia. You know, they didn't

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Speaker 1: have much, and now she's this famous singer who sings

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Speaker 1: about everyday experiences. She also incorporates uplifting Christian themes and

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Speaker 1: sings those very easy to identify with tragic love songs. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he said that even Zimbabweans identify with the healing function,

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Speaker 1: as he calls it, of Dolly Parton's music. So, now

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Speaker 1: that we have clearly established that Dolly Parton is an incredible,

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Speaker 1: accomplished woman who is genuinely loved around the world, we're

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Speaker 1: going to take a quick break and then talk about

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Speaker 1: how she has parlayed her fame and wealth to help

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Speaker 1: other people as well. And now back to the podcast. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: I like, growing up, Dolly Parton was not played in

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Speaker 1: my household. You know, It's not I wasn't like a

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Speaker 1: hardcore Dolly fan or anything. It's only been in my

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Speaker 1: adulthood that I've really discovered her, and while I don't

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Speaker 1: really listen to her albums on repeat or anything like that,

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Speaker 1: I love her hits and I just, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate her place in music history and in pop

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Speaker 1: culture in general, because she's she's just been so honest

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Speaker 1: and honestly unapologetic about who she is and what she's

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Speaker 1: done with her notoriety and all of the money that

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Speaker 1: she's earned, such as giving back as the book Lady Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Back in nine she started the Dollywood Foundation to inspire

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Speaker 1: children in her home community of severe Ville, Tennessee, and

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Speaker 1: it funds the Dolly Parton Imagination Library across America and

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Speaker 1: now in Canada and the UK by giving every preschool

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Speaker 1: child a book each month from the time year she

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Speaker 1: is born until the child reaches kindergarten, and as of August,

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Speaker 1: the program had spread communities across the US, England, and

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Speaker 1: Canada and given away almost fifty million free books, and

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Speaker 1: Dolly holds this so close to her heart. She said

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Speaker 1: that this was the thing that her father was most

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Speaker 1: proud of her for, not her stinging career, not all

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Speaker 1: of her country music awards, but the fact that she

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Speaker 1: was helping children to read because she said, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you as a child, particularly like a poor child,

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Speaker 1: you know, you don't have anything to call your own.

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Speaker 1: But if you get this book in the mail and

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Speaker 1: it has your name on it, and you learn to

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Speaker 1: read it, and you pour over it every month, and

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Speaker 1: then you get a new one, there's a sense of

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Speaker 1: ownership and pride in the act of learning to read.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna tell your mama or your daddy to teach

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Speaker 1: you how to read. And so that's something that she's

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Speaker 1: very proud of. Well, and what more empowering tool can

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Speaker 1: you give a child than the ability to read? You know? Um,

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Speaker 1: But let's talk for a minute about her personal life,

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Speaker 1: because I mean her her professional life is so huge,

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Speaker 1: and at least for um, what I've known of Dolly

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Speaker 1: before looking into her life for the podcast, I wasn't

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Speaker 1: very aware of her personal life because I feel like

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Speaker 1: she's always been pretty good at keeping the professional life

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Speaker 1: at the forefront. But certainly her longtime marriage to Carl

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Speaker 1: Dene They've been married for nearly fifty years. I think

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Speaker 1: they're actually about to renew their vows. But it certainly

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Speaker 1: has attracted gossip in rumors as well because she's worked

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Speaker 1: so closely with prominent men, whether they're musicians or actors

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Speaker 1: like Burt Reynolds. UM. And people always assume, well, Dolly

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Speaker 1: must be flirting with these men, and she must be

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Speaker 1: having a phase, I must have an open marriage. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of speculation people are dying to know.

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Speaker 1: And her quote is this, which is great. She says,

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Speaker 1: I love to flirt, and I've never met a man

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Speaker 1: I didn't like. Men of my weakness short, fat, bald,

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Speaker 1: or skinny. I've had crushes on some very unusual men,

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Speaker 1: but Carl knows I'll always come home and I'm not

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Speaker 1: having sex with these people. I'm just flirting and having fun.

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Speaker 1: I love that, she says. She said, crushes on unusual men.

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Speaker 1: That's so perfect. Well, yeah, because there was even a

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Speaker 1: rumor swirling that they were in an open marriage, because

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Speaker 1: I think she she's made comments about like poking fun

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Speaker 1: at long term monogamy because I mean, come on, they've

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Speaker 1: been married for like fifty years, um, and people were

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Speaker 1: scandalized by that. But she always seems so unfazed by

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Speaker 1: whatever kind of gossip people want to spread. Um. But

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Speaker 1: one thing too she's talked about publicly is the fact

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Speaker 1: that she and Carl don't have any kids, and she

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Speaker 1: actually went through a tough time about that. She told

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Speaker 1: the Globe at one point that she in the nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighties went through about a depression from from not having kids.

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Speaker 1: She said, I went through a dark time. It lasted

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Speaker 1: several months because I think I would have made a

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Speaker 1: nice mama. Yeah, and so, you know, she she had

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Speaker 1: thought she might have kids, but her you know, they

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Speaker 1: was on hold because of her career and all of

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Speaker 1: that stuff. And so then she she says, and I

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Speaker 1: want you to, like, I can't do a Dolly voice,

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Speaker 1: but I want you to imagine this in Dolly's voice.

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Speaker 1: She says, Then one day I just said to myself, right,

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Speaker 1: get off your fat butt, or if you really are suicidal,

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Speaker 1: then go and shoot your brains out. I thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe God didn't want me to have kids so that

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Speaker 1: everybody else's kids could be mine. Well that's the thing too.

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Speaker 1: She talks about how she has so many nieces and

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Speaker 1: nephews because she has eleven siblings, so there are she

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Speaker 1: I think they call her what do they call her?

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Speaker 1: Great aunt? Granny? Is her name? They just call her

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Speaker 1: great aunt Granny. I can't do a Dolly Parton either, clearly.

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Speaker 1: But one of the most fascinating things to me about

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Speaker 1: Dolly Parton today and with her relationship to women our age,

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Speaker 1: especially Caroline, is how how many times I've seen her

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Speaker 1: being cited as this feminist icon, even though she's never

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Speaker 1: out and out said I'm a feminist. She's she's very

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Speaker 1: much loud and proud about her Christianity and her kind

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Speaker 1: of traditional family values. But at the same time, she

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Speaker 1: very much supports gay rights and gay marriage, and she's

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Speaker 1: been on the record about that. But in terms of feminism,

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Speaker 1: she pokes fun, but she's never said, well, I'm a feminist. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But I think her life is such an excellent example

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Speaker 1: all in and of itself. I mean the way that

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Speaker 1: she has forged ahead with with a smile on her

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Speaker 1: face the whole time, you know. I mean she has

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Speaker 1: kind of laughed off all of this stuff as she

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Speaker 1: has pushed through the big machine to become as successful

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Speaker 1: as she is. Yeah. And one of one quote she

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Speaker 1: did give in response to her thoughts on feminism was

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Speaker 1: she said, I was the first woman woman to burn

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Speaker 1: my bra. It took the fire department four days to

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Speaker 1: put it out, and one thing that people really like

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Speaker 1: about her. It's just her very non judgmental attitude. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you look at the hair, you look at the boobs,

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Speaker 1: and you might start to assume things like, maybe she's

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Speaker 1: not that smart, she couldn't possibly be a feminist. But

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Speaker 1: what she's doing is basically championing your right to look

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Speaker 1: anyway you want. And I mean she's definitely not shy

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Speaker 1: about talking about her appearance, the wigs, the boobs, all

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Speaker 1: that stuff. In fact, she says things like it takes

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Speaker 1: a lot of money to look that cheap um. But

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Speaker 1: she just uses the self deprecation and humor and and

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Speaker 1: doesn't let it bother her. You know, she kind of

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Speaker 1: took back the female form. You could say, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean the fact that she has she is so big,

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Speaker 1: whether we're talking about her hair or her breast, or

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Speaker 1: just how loud her wardrobe tends to be. And it's

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Speaker 1: it's intentional on her part. I mean, she's even talked

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Speaker 1: about how her look today was inspired when she was

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Speaker 1: a little girl by a prostitute in her town who

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Speaker 1: she saw, and she talked about how she saw this

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Speaker 1: woman walking down the road and she was so glamorous

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Speaker 1: because she had big hair and red nails, and she

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Speaker 1: wanted to look exactly like her. And her mother noticed

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Speaker 1: Dolly paying attention to this prostitute and it was just

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Speaker 1: scandal I and said, Dolly, don't look at that woman. No,

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Speaker 1: And here, you know, She's like, well, sorry, mom, I'm

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Speaker 1: not sorry. Yeah. And I mean, if you look at

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Speaker 1: the song she's written, like dumb Blonde, which we cited earlier.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't think I'm dumb because this dumb

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Speaker 1: blonde ain't nobody's fool just because I'm a woman and

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Speaker 1: nine to five, you know, just because I'm a woman.

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Speaker 1: She says, my mistakes are no worse than yours. Just

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Speaker 1: because I'm a woman nine to five talking about you

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Speaker 1: would think I would deserve a fat promotion, all this stuff,

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Speaker 1: and even with Joe Lene, you know where in the

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Speaker 1: story this woman is trying to steal Dolly's man. Dolly's

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Speaker 1: not calling her bad names. There's no hint of splut

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Speaker 1: shaming in this song whatsoever. She's simply saying like, look,

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Speaker 1: I know you're awesome, I know you're gorgeous, but please,

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Speaker 1: I love him, don't take him away. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: she's just earnestly saying I can't compete with you, Joline,

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Speaker 1: So if you could just kind of disappear, that would

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Speaker 1: be nice. Um and Dr Amy Pelloff, who's the is

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Speaker 1: asstant Director of the Comparative History of Ideas Program and

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Speaker 1: the Affiliate Assistant Director of Gender, Women in Sexuality Studies

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Speaker 1: at the University of Washington. Wow, that's quite a title.

423
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 1: Um has also looked into this intersection of feminism and

424
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 1: Dolly Parton from a performative standpoint, and she calls it

425
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:25,360
Speaker 1: folk feminism what she sees in Dolly Parton. Uh. For instance,

426
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: she quotes Dolly Parton saying, I soon realized that I

427
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 1: had to play by men's rules to win. My way

428
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 1: of fighting back was to wear frilly clothes and to

429
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: put on the big blonde wigs. And pelaf is really

430
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: fascinated at how I mean, when we talk about gender,

431
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: we often talk about how gender is a performance, is

432
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 1: the things that you put on. It's the feminine versus

433
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: the masculine. Really boils down to how you are acting

434
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: and you know what you're wearing. These kinds of performance aspects,

435
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 1: and when it comes to femininity, Dolly is like the

436
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: highest most heightened version of of gender. Performance that you

437
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: could really imagine, right well, I mean she does say

438
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: I've always said that if I hadn't been a woman,

439
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 1: I would have been a drag queen exactly, and I

440
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: mean that goes. I mean she basically is like that

441
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: whole performance. Are the big wigs, all the makeup, the hair, everything.

442
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: I mean, she basically is a drag queen. And uh

443
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: Amy Pelov also points out her contradictory identities, and I

444
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: think that's interesting and I wonder if this is part

445
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: of why everybody loves Dolly is because you know, that

446
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: extreme femininity. There's the male fantasy part compared with the

447
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: gay icon aspect of her performance, the simple country girl

448
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: versus the jet setting celebrity, the faithfully married woman versus

449
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: the film fatale, and then the straight woman versus lesbian.

450
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: A lot of people have said, oh, well, Dolly must

451
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: be a lesbian causina she's not out with her husband

452
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 1: all the time, when in fact she's like, dude, we're

453
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: just she's my best friend, calmed down. And then that

454
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: whole dichotomy between the artificial and the authentic that almost

455
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: everything about her when you look at her probably fake,

456
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: but she herself is so genuine well, and she's so

457
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: genuine about the fakeness, you know. And and it was

458
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: one quote about the sexuality aspect or the sexualization of

459
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: her body. She said, there's nothing sexy about my look.

460
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: Men are not usually turned on by artificial looks. And

461
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: I've always been like that, Like she think it's thinks

462
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: it's kind of laughable to even consider herself, uh, sex

463
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 1: icon just because she has large breasts. Yeah, And I

464
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: mean she's been able to accomplish. I mean just you know,

465
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: we blew through that timeline of her life, but you know,

466
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 1: this woman has accomplished so much and been awarded with

467
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: so much, and she's done it on her own terms completely.

468
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: She has been able to do everything with a smile,

469
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,719
Speaker 1: looking exactly the way she wants to look, doing what

470
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: she wants to do, and still gathering all of this,

471
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: all of these accolades, all of this notoriety. Yeah, and

472
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: I mean I think a lot of it goes back

473
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: to her being a child in tiny town Appalachia and

474
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 1: having this one dream and having some incredible work ethics.

475
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: She's She's even said that, Um, you know, she has

476
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 1: a lot of talented relatives. She's like, but I don't

477
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,479
Speaker 1: think that any of them are as successful as I am,

478
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: because I don't know if anyone who really wants to

479
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: work as hard as I do, because I'm sure was

480
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: NonStop to write over three thousand songs and do everything

481
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: else that she's been doing. Um, and I don't know.

482
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,479
Speaker 1: It's it's interesting to just think about someone who today

483
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: when I feel like in our social landscape, everything is

484
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: so polarized. Everything is you either hate it or you

485
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: love it, And it's rare to find a person who

486
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: doesn't attract as much criticism as they do praise, And

487
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 1: it's hard to find someone who wants can can legitimately

488
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: talk smack about Dolly Parton even if you don't like

489
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: her music, even if you're not a country fan, there's

490
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: something to like about her. And I think it's because

491
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 1: of those kind of lines that she's able to skirt

492
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: that you just mentioned of just like kind of somehow

493
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: being everything all at once and being totally humble and

494
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: also self deprecating about it, which I think the self

495
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 1: deprecation helps, you know, So happy birthday, Dolly, Happy birthday,

496
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: and call us anytime. Yeah, you can hang out if

497
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: you ever want to pop over to Atlanta. Dolly, now

498
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: that we're directly addressing you as though you're listening to

499
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: this episode, But I want to know though, if other

500
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: people listening consider her a feminist icon? Are you a fan?

501
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: Is there anyone out there who has a legit reason

502
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: to not like Dolly? Let us know. Let's let's talk

503
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: about Dolly for her birthday Moms stuff. Discovery dot com

504
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: is where you can send your letters, and we've got

505
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: a couple of letters to share with you right now. Well,

506
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: I've got an email here from Heather about our New

507
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: Year's episode on will Power, and she rightes say, lovely

508
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: Lady podcasters loved the New Year's Resolution podcast and thought

509
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: I'd cheer my willpower story with you. I started smoking

510
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: when I was fifteen and smoked for seven years. After

511
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: my appendix burst, Oh my goodness, and a week and

512
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: a half in the hospital, and watching both of my

513
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: grandmother spend their last few years in and out of

514
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: hospitals dying of cancer, I decided I had to quit

515
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: if I didn't want to spend my last year's in hospitals.

516
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: Once my surgeon cleared me for the physical stress of quitting,

517
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: I quit. It wasn't easy, at all, but I did it.

518
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: I used nicotine patches and a nicotine free e cigarette

519
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: and bribed myself constantly. My rule was that I could

520
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: have or do anything I wanted except have a cigarette.

521
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: If I wanted a pizza for breakfast, then I have it.

522
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: I want those new shoes that I don't need to

523
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: buy them, and it worked. Also. I avoided parties and

524
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: bars or lots of my friend and smoke and where

525
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: I used to smoke. For the first month or two.

526
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: I saved all my willpower from my goal, and now,

527
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: over two years later, I'm still a non smoker and proud.

528
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: Did I end up spending a lot of money, Yes?

529
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: Did I gain weight shockingly? No? Did I achieve my goal? Yes?

530
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: Of course I had a courb my bribery after a while,

531
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: but it was easy because I've broken my smoking habit

532
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: and no longer needed to distract myself. I'm not a

533
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: New Year's resolution girl, but I do achieve the few

534
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: goals I set for myself. Please share my story to

535
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: help others kick their nicotine addictions. I like that idea

536
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: of briberies. I'll take shoes, yeah, sure, um okay. I

537
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: have a letter here from Elizabeth talking about our crafting

538
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: episodes and our technology episodes. She says, I really enjoy

539
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: listening to your podcast, but sometimes get behind in episodes

540
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: and will podcast binge while cleaning or cooking. It is

541
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: probably only because I listened to the women in Coding podcasts,

542
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: particularly back to back with the d I y Revival

543
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: of craft podcast. Then I noticed you didn't mention how crafters,

544
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: particularly women, are becoming incredibly sex savvy is a way

545
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: to share, promote, and sell their crafts. The advent of Pinterest, Instagram, Facebook,

546
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: and Tumbler have done as much, if not more than etc.

547
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: As a way for crafting communities to develop, share ideas

548
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: and bond together. A couple of social media with blogs, YouTube, videos,

549
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: and software and hardware using crafting, and you have more

550
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: women than ever using technology daily as part of their

551
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: handmade craft. Very good point, Elizabeth, Thank you and thanks

552
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,959
Speaker 1: everybody who's written into us. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot

553
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: com is where you can send your letters, but you

554
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: can also get in touch with us on Facebook or

555
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: tweet us at mom Stuff Podcasts and to find all

556
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: things stuff Mom never told you, including every single podcast

557
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: we have ever published, every single blog, every single video,

558
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: every single social media outlet we are on, which is

559
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: a lot. There's only one place to go on the

560
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: Internet now, and it's www. Dot stuff I've never told you.

561
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: Dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics.

562
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: Is that how staff works? Dot Com