Speaker 1: Be sure to catch live editions of the Ben Maller
Speaker 1: Show weekdays at two a m. Eastern eleven pm Pacific.
Speaker 1: If you thought four hours a day, minutes a week
Speaker 1: was enough, I think again. He's the last remnants of
Speaker 1: the old republic, a sole fashion of fairness. He treats
Speaker 1: crackheads in the ghetto Cutter the same as the rich
Speaker 1: pill poppers in the penthouse. The clearing House of Hot
Speaker 1: takes break free for something special. The Fifth Hour with
Speaker 1: Ben Maller starts right now that it does. We are
Speaker 1: in the a everywhere you name it. We are here
Speaker 1: for you eight days a week, because four hours obviously
Speaker 1: not enough the overnight, and we do thank you for
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Speaker 1: There is zero advertising budget. This is a spinoff of
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Speaker 1: It's part of the I Heart network. But this is
Speaker 1: not a Fox Sports radio production. It just sounds like
Speaker 1: a Fox Sports radio production unless it does not. And
Speaker 1: the thing you can do to help this podcast is
Speaker 1: to tell a friend, Tell a friend, tell a friend,
Speaker 1: and hey, anywhere you get your podcast, not just on
Speaker 1: the I Heart network, but anywhere you get your podcast,
Speaker 1: You can here this show, and we are joined yet
Speaker 1: again by the man, the myth, and the legend in
Speaker 1: his own mind. David Gascon is here west of the
Speaker 1: four oh five. He's coming in to hang out with
Speaker 1: us here a little bit west four five. Look at
Speaker 1: that's I'm going from hanging out west the four five
Speaker 1: to indoors with you, because man, it's getting little nippiots
Speaker 1: side these days. Come on, you know, that's the people
Speaker 1: rip California. It's a little it's in the sixties, so
Speaker 1: people freak out, what's wrong with you? Well know, it
Speaker 1: gets windy, and then obviously if you're down near the water,
Speaker 1: it gets a little bit colder. So I don't like
Speaker 1: working out in the cold. You I actually I've been
Speaker 1: walking and it's been cold. I don't really mind it.
Speaker 1: It's not like I got this guy Mark the Walker
Speaker 1: in Rochester. Well that's cold. Yeah, that's I mean, this
Speaker 1: is I mean, this is not We're not exactly in
Speaker 1: Alaska here. No, you know, it's not the Arctic. M Yeah,
Speaker 1: if it gets below freezing, we've got a problem. But
Speaker 1: you know, I'll let you know when's so cal moves
Speaker 1: to Siberia. But yeah, it's it's different than it has
Speaker 1: been because before it was like a hundred degrees where
Speaker 1: I live every day. Now you go outside, you got
Speaker 1: goose bumps. Right now. There's two places, Chicago and Philadelphia.
Speaker 1: Two years ago, I went outside during the wintertime and
Speaker 1: it was so cold. My my ears were were in pain,
Speaker 1: like the wind was piercing and it felt like I
Speaker 1: had immediate frostbite on my ears. In Chicago and Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: it was that cold. Yeah. Well, my experience was in Stanford, Connecticut. Uh,
Speaker 1: when I was doing television and we went out one
Speaker 1: of the guys on the show. We all got together
Speaker 1: and had had dinner at Bobby V's. Bobby Valentine has
Speaker 1: got a restaurant, don't know if he still does, but
Speaker 1: it was in Stanford, Connecticut. So we want to air
Speaker 1: and it was like maybe four blocks from the hotel
Speaker 1: I was staying at. It was wintertime, you know, it
Speaker 1: was it was one of time. So I went there, Uh,
Speaker 1: I gotta ride. The guy was going in a different
Speaker 1: direction than the hotel, so I said, don't worry, I
Speaker 1: got this, you know, And I thought, you know. I
Speaker 1: walked back to the hotel. It was ten thirty eleven
Speaker 1: o'clock at night, you know, something like that. And as
Speaker 1: I remember it, and uh, so I got out of
Speaker 1: the restaurant and I started walking and I knew where
Speaker 1: the hotel was. It was the biggest building there in Stanford,
Speaker 1: and so I started walking and I made it about
Speaker 1: half a block and oh my god, this intense, this
Speaker 1: intense feeling just overwhelmed me of coldness. And I kept
Speaker 1: going though, because I'm stubborn, all right, So I kept
Speaker 1: going and it kept getting worse and worse and worse.
Speaker 1: My nose starts running from the cold, and there was
Speaker 1: just it was unbelievable. And I made it to the hotel,
Speaker 1: but oh my, I was not prepared. I didn't have
Speaker 1: the proper cold gear. And it was one of the
Speaker 1: dumber things that I've done. Now, were you wearing pants,
Speaker 1: slacks or or something else? No, No, I had like
Speaker 1: just like pants on. I had a lightweight jacket. I
Speaker 1: didn't have gloves. I didn't have a hat, you know
Speaker 1: things you're supposed to have a scarf, you know things
Speaker 1: that normal people who live in cold weather. Half what
Speaker 1: kind of socks did you have on? I said, normal socks? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the other thing. My my brother told me that
Speaker 1: that's a cheap code, right, you go, you live in cold,
Speaker 1: whether you gotta get those wool socks, right, those thick
Speaker 1: wool socks are amazing. And I didn't know that, but
Speaker 1: now you know. Now that was a long time ago.
Speaker 1: So now when I go back, I uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't mind going in the cold. And uh, I
Speaker 1: love when you fly into like JFK and you take
Speaker 1: the drive in to New York City and you see
Speaker 1: all the dead trees when you go in the wintertime
Speaker 1: and everything's dead, everything's gray and dead. But yeah, so
Speaker 1: good times. That's that's where we're at though right now.
Speaker 1: Like that's the distinct thing about California. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you feel the same way, but when I look
Speaker 1: at it, it's we go from summer and there's no fall.
Speaker 1: It's just go right into winter. At least it feels like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like a California winner. And it never rains, Like
Speaker 1: it rains for like one month. Maybe maybe it'll rain
Speaker 1: for a month. If we have Anno, then it all
Speaker 1: rain a lot and then everything. The good thing about
Speaker 1: is everything grows and turns green and then everything's you know,
Speaker 1: primed to burn again. So It's perfect. It's the circle
Speaker 1: of life on the West Coast, is what it is.
Speaker 1: So anyway, this is and this is a interview podcast.
Speaker 1: It is and also a bonus. Not only this is
Speaker 1: a two for one special, by the way, because not
Speaker 1: only do you get to hear one of the legends
Speaker 1: of the NFL who's slumming with us, but also we'll
Speaker 1: have an exclusive story that no one else has after
Speaker 1: we get on with our our man here that's gonna
Speaker 1: be hanging out with us. Uh. And I'll then to
Speaker 1: lose him properly here in a second. But well, have
Speaker 1: you gotta be joking after we get done with this conversation.
Speaker 1: This is a I Heart Podcast fifth hour exclusive. But
Speaker 1: right now, though, let's begin our conversation with the voice
Speaker 1: of America's team. This man has been calling Dallas Cowboy
Speaker 1: football games since I was in diapers. Okay, his name
Speaker 1: is Brad Sham. He's also called Texas Ranger games. Briefly.
Speaker 1: He's been with the Dallas Cowboys for forty years. When
Speaker 1: he started ed to Tall Jones, Rogers, Stabach all the
Speaker 1: legends of the Dallas Cowboys. In the nineteen seventies, Tom
Speaker 1: Landry was the coach. When Brad Sham started calling Cowboy games,
Speaker 1: he actually started as the color commentator with Verne Lundquist,
Speaker 1: the legendary broadcaster Verne Lundquist, who was the play by
Speaker 1: play guy for the Cowboys at that time. But he's
Speaker 1: seen it all. He knows where all the bodies are
Speaker 1: buried with the Dallas Cowboys. Uh. And you know the
Speaker 1: star Box Pearson too tall, Jones all the way through
Speaker 1: the glory days of the nineties with Troy Aikman, Michael
Speaker 1: Irvin and Emmett Smith, the Tony Romo years now that
Speaker 1: Dak Prescott here. He was there before Jerry Jones, way
Speaker 1: before Jerry Jones became the Cowboy owner. So he has
Speaker 1: been part of all of that. He has seen the
Speaker 1: changing of the NFL. And I give it up now
Speaker 1: for Brad Sham, the voice of America's team, the Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 1: And Brad welcome man, Thanks for thanks for doing this
Speaker 1: Number one. Number two man, How how has this been
Speaker 1: this year with COVID and all the changes. It's been
Speaker 1: a wonky year. How's it been for you? It's ridiculous, Ben,
Speaker 1: I mean there's but but it's the same problem that
Speaker 1: that everyone's having in every sport. I mean we're we
Speaker 1: are not traveling, which is true for I think twenty
Speaker 1: four of the thirty two radio crews, and we don't
Speaker 1: have any personal access or contact any players or coaches,
Speaker 1: which is true of all of the teams. But the
Speaker 1: most important thing is getting the games played and not
Speaker 1: getting people sick. So um, we we sold her on.
Speaker 1: We do the best we can and try not to
Speaker 1: bother the listening audience with our problems because they don't
Speaker 1: care and they shouldn't. It's our job to give them
Speaker 1: some respite from their own difficulties. So when you're calling
Speaker 1: a game off a monitor, did you do that back
Speaker 1: in the day when you were starting out, like just
Speaker 1: messing around? I mean, well, I'm not that old, Ben,
Speaker 1: Come on, I actually have done that. I've done some
Speaker 1: soccer games that way, and and it's really hard because
Speaker 1: you can only say what the picture shows you, so
Speaker 1: you can't see what's going on outside of camera range.
Speaker 1: And those are things that would normally be brought into
Speaker 1: play to help paint the picture. And then this year
Speaker 1: we throw in the addit COVID benefit of empty stadiums
Speaker 1: in most places that they've been they've been to l
Speaker 1: A nobody there. They've been to Seattle, nobody there. I
Speaker 1: think they were a smattering of people in Philadelphia. I
Speaker 1: don't believe there was anybody in Washington. So that's really eerie.
Speaker 1: Even though they're mixing in crowd noise and the same
Speaker 1: thing people at home who are watching games are experiencing.
Speaker 1: You kind of low yourself to sleep. You go along
Speaker 1: with the crowd noise. They do their best to modulate it,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden there's a wide shot
Speaker 1: and there's nobody there. You go, oh, yeah, this is
Speaker 1: a little different. Yeah, it's pretty it's pretty crazy this year.
Speaker 1: And and how does you star in the nineteen seventies
Speaker 1: doing the Cowboys? You've seen every you know all the
Speaker 1: secrets of the Cowboys? Are you like the secret keeper
Speaker 1: for the Cowboys brand? With all the time you spent
Speaker 1: in What was it like in the early days that
Speaker 1: when you started back in the in the seventies when
Speaker 1: Roger Stabach was the quarterback, right when you when you
Speaker 1: started doing yeah, I got the end of Roger's career. Um,
Speaker 1: there were so many things that were different in every
Speaker 1: aspect of the sport that it would it's way too
Speaker 1: numerable to mention, and that goes from media access to
Speaker 1: the offensive and defensive rules and formations. So it was
Speaker 1: the same sport e loving guys out of side hundred
Speaker 1: yards length to the field. But there are many ways
Speaker 1: in which the industry and the sport are are vastly different.
Speaker 1: It was a lot more personal, um the relationship between
Speaker 1: a media, let alone a team broadcaster and the and
Speaker 1: the players and coaches and front office. It was a
Speaker 1: lot more personal before. So many things in the world changed.
Speaker 1: And I'm not talking about the pandemic. I'm just you know,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about money and social media. All of those
Speaker 1: things have not necessarily the money has been great for
Speaker 1: the players. And free agency, I think is something that
Speaker 1: they the rest of us have free agency. Why shouldn't
Speaker 1: athletes have it. But it definitely changed all of that stuff.
Speaker 1: It's a whole different culture than it was. This is
Speaker 1: my forty second year, so than it was all those
Speaker 1: years ago. And back in the seven I watched you know,
Speaker 1: NFL films, highlight videos and stuff, and you talk about
Speaker 1: the violence of the NFL and how it's a lot
Speaker 1: obviously a lot different now. But when you were calling
Speaker 1: Cowboy games, did you have you noticed a tangible difference
Speaker 1: in the way people tackle, and so sure, yeah, you
Speaker 1: know when I when I started, that it was I
Speaker 1: think it was the head slap, for instance, was still legal.
Speaker 1: That was something that Deacon Jones made famous with the
Speaker 1: rams and uh, and it became taught. Ernie Stoutner, the
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame defensive lineman for the Steelers, was the
Speaker 1: Cowboys defensive coordinator when I started. And that was a
Speaker 1: technique and he he had guys like uh, he got
Speaker 1: Randy White in seventy and Randy quickly became a martial
Speaker 1: arts expert and learned all kinds of techniques about slapping
Speaker 1: the guy in the head. And a lot a lot
Speaker 1: of that stuff's changed. And I just saw. I'm a
Speaker 1: Chicago kid and I was in high school when the
Speaker 1: Bears drafted Buckas and Sayers. And I just saw on
Speaker 1: Twitter the other day a little montage of maybe about
Speaker 1: a minute of Nick Buckas tackles. The shoulder pads are different.
Speaker 1: But the way they attacked people, uh, And whether it
Speaker 1: was Butckas or No This or niche Key or all
Speaker 1: those great Steelers players, um, the uh, you know, all
Speaker 1: of those guys just they just tackled differently, even the
Speaker 1: even the rams with with the Firresome Foursome. Now I
Speaker 1: didn't know him well, but I got to know Merlin
Speaker 1: Olson a little bit, and he was such an incredible
Speaker 1: gentleman that you had difficulty thinking of him as vicious.
Speaker 1: But the young Bloods you could think of that way,
Speaker 1: and and Merlin was a very physical player. Was all
Speaker 1: just it was. It was just different than it is
Speaker 1: now that and there were some of these rules are
Speaker 1: better for the safety of the players, it will prolong
Speaker 1: the game, but it was it was a different thing
Speaker 1: to watch. Brad, what what do you look at the
Speaker 1: state of of the Cowboys right now? Prior Totack getting hurt.
Speaker 1: Had you ever seen such a discrepancy wide range from
Speaker 1: offense to defense or maybe vice versa defense to offense
Speaker 1: and all the time you've been Dallas, Well yeah, they,
Speaker 1: I mean they They've had some years where there were
Speaker 1: big discrepancy, some of Tony Romo's best years as quarterback.
Speaker 1: To the defense was not very good. I don't think
Speaker 1: I have ever seen the overall defensive performance be as
Speaker 1: abject as it has been most of this year. The
Speaker 1: I think that the worst Cowboys team I've ever seen
Speaker 1: was Tom Landry's last one in they were three and thirteen.
Speaker 1: They they had gotten old. There was a strike in
Speaker 1: eighty seven which kind of masked some of the aging
Speaker 1: of some of the players, and some of them Tom
Speaker 1: uh and Texts let hang around a little too long,
Speaker 1: and so that manifested in and that was eight was
Speaker 1: a much worse team than eighty nine. That was Jimmy
Speaker 1: Johnson's first team, and he was just churning people through
Speaker 1: that They could have won more than one game if
Speaker 1: they wanted to, but that wasn't the point that year,
Speaker 1: and the point became very clear to three years later.
Speaker 1: But that eight team was really horrible. And this one, defensively,
Speaker 1: um is as bad as anything I've ever seen. They
Speaker 1: really had some terrible times. And I want to say
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, Monty Kiffin was the defensive coordinator and and
Speaker 1: it was really really bad. But this there's a lot
Speaker 1: of reasons for why they would have been so bad
Speaker 1: this year, everything from the absence of the off season
Speaker 1: to uh over evaluating some personnel, to coaching mistakes, but
Speaker 1: this has been abject and the discrepancy was really it
Speaker 1: would have even been more um in relief. It would
Speaker 1: have been even even more harshly uh seen if they
Speaker 1: had not turned the ball over so many times the
Speaker 1: first few games before dark Prescott got hurt, Elliott fall
Speaker 1: but a few times, and Dak fumbled two or three times,
Speaker 1: and so they got themselves in a terrible hole. They
Speaker 1: put their defense in horrible positions. And then they compounded
Speaker 1: that by playing just as poorly as it was almost
Speaker 1: humanly possible to play. And um, and still the the
Speaker 1: offense was scoring points. And I mean, they've got some
Speaker 1: good personnel, but now a lot of it's on the
Speaker 1: injured list right now. But that's true of a lot
Speaker 1: of teams, but there have been some years where there
Speaker 1: were discrepancies to this year just seems like everything said
Speaker 1: of it once well, with social media being where it
Speaker 1: is right now, can you take us through what it's
Speaker 1: like to work for the Cowboys then, because get l
Speaker 1: a where it's like a Lakers and Dodgers town, New
Speaker 1: York with the Yankees and the Knicks being in Chicago.
Speaker 1: Obviously got the Cubbies, the Bears, the whole nine yards,
Speaker 1: but Dallas is different, especially because you have the ownership
Speaker 1: group and has so hands on with the team and
Speaker 1: the personnel. Well, this is a Cowboys town. It's a
Speaker 1: football town. I came here, uh in in seventy came
Speaker 1: to Tendon and start working on Cowboys broadcast then, but
Speaker 1: I started I came town college football was the biggest thing. Um,
Speaker 1: the Cowboys were just starting to win. Football is always
Speaker 1: going to be the biggest thing here when the Rangers
Speaker 1: are doing well, which is a distant memory right now,
Speaker 1: even though it's only been like ten years. Um, baseball
Speaker 1: is very popular and the Mavericks are very popular. But
Speaker 1: in St. Louis, for example, I don't care how many
Speaker 1: Stanley Cups the Blues were. And that's a Cardinalstown period
Speaker 1: and um, you know you can you can have a
Speaker 1: debate in places like Chicago and New York. I mean
Speaker 1: my feeling is that that in l A, not living there,
Speaker 1: the Lakers and the Dodgers are going to split it
Speaker 1: up and everybody else is gonna is gonna have what's left.
Speaker 1: And I don't care how good the Rams are for
Speaker 1: how long. That's what That's just how it is, and
Speaker 1: that's how it is here. This is Cowboys town. Now.
Speaker 1: The fandom will not show up in person when they're
Speaker 1: not doing well. And once upon a time it was
Speaker 1: phone calls to call in shows. I did one for
Speaker 1: a long time. But now the social media, as you say,
Speaker 1: everybody's everybody's a critic, and everybody's got a form and um,
Speaker 1: whether you're a team employee or an affiliate like I am,
Speaker 1: you just can't look at that stuff. You can't pay
Speaker 1: attention to it because all of us have been fans
Speaker 1: at one point or another. If we haven't been fans,
Speaker 1: we shouldn't be doing this. And as a fan, you
Speaker 1: react viscerally and emotionally, and that's not conducive to running
Speaker 1: a business, and that's what pro football is. But we
Speaker 1: do know what the reactions are and people will react,
Speaker 1: so you just have to ignore that stuff because everyone
Speaker 1: has a shingle to hang out now thanks to Twitter
Speaker 1: and Facebook. Brad. I'll go back in your your game prep.
Speaker 1: I know I've talked to guys that did talk radio
Speaker 1: back in the day, and it's it's all different how
Speaker 1: you prepare for for show and all that. You've been
Speaker 1: a radio guy your whole life, which I like. I
Speaker 1: love that your radio guy buddy, when you when you
Speaker 1: prepare for a game back in the in the seventies
Speaker 1: and the eighties, there wasn't that much information. You've got
Speaker 1: everything out of newspapers, it's seen. There was no internet obviously,
Speaker 1: So how is it too much now? How much? How
Speaker 1: much different is it? And how much time do you spend?
Speaker 1: Is it a paralysis of analysis situation? With all the
Speaker 1: information that's available now, that's the biggest danger that you run.
Speaker 1: I'll never forget Um. I want to say it was
Speaker 1: in the late nineties when the Cowboys were playing Um
Speaker 1: Seattle and Seattle was still in the a f C.
Speaker 1: And one day they were getting ready to play Seattle.
Speaker 1: It was like Wednesday, and I got an envelope in
Speaker 1: the mail and there was a VHS tape of Seattle's
Speaker 1: last game, so I could watch that game to help
Speaker 1: prepare and and I almost died of sheer delirium. And
Speaker 1: then and then Denver did the same thing the next week.
Speaker 1: And so watching tape or film that wasn't something we did.
Speaker 1: And you're right, it was all out of newspapers. It
Speaker 1: was clippings. People would make clippings and facts you copies,
Speaker 1: or you would go to a bookstore and get copies
Speaker 1: of out of town newspapers, and it was culturally just
Speaker 1: as different as it could possibly possibly be. And so
Speaker 1: you do run that risk of um paralysis by over analysis.
Speaker 1: Since that day when those UH tapes showed up, I've
Speaker 1: always said the good news about the Internet is that
Speaker 1: there is an unlimited amount of information available twenty four seven.
Speaker 1: The bad news is there's an unlimited amount of information
Speaker 1: available twenty four or seven. You have to learn where
Speaker 1: to draw the line, what you can really use, and
Speaker 1: what what rabbit holes. That takes some learning in and
Speaker 1: of itself. But I'm much more prepared to do a
Speaker 1: game now than I was then. I just didn't know
Speaker 1: it then. Yeah, and uh, and what do those guys
Speaker 1: are gonna be listening to this? And women as well.
Speaker 1: I think I want to be a play by play
Speaker 1: person someday. I want to be the next voice of
Speaker 1: the Cowboys down the line. Any words of wisdom, Brad,
Speaker 1: that you have, you know you've learned over the years,
Speaker 1: you can pass on to the to the guys and
Speaker 1: the gals that are coming after you that want to
Speaker 1: do the play by play down the line. Well, if
Speaker 1: if they are looking to do play by play for
Speaker 1: the Cowboys, my advice is to wait about ten years, um,
Speaker 1: if because I'm gonna try to keep the job that long. UM.
Speaker 1: Generally speaking, yeah, I think that you have to learn
Speaker 1: how to prepare and you have to be you have
Speaker 1: to be ready for that preparation to be pretty much
Speaker 1: all consuming. You're never done when the season starts. Really,
Speaker 1: when the preseason starts, game passes another. It's a beauty,
Speaker 1: it's a fantastic thing. I can watch any game all year,
Speaker 1: any time, um. But there's literally work to be done,
Speaker 1: different and specific work every single day of the week.
Speaker 1: So there are no you know the old I guess
Speaker 1: it was originally a Belichick saying no days off, but
Speaker 1: it's true. In the NFL during the season, there are
Speaker 1: literally no days off, and and that's okay. You just
Speaker 1: have to be prepared for it. Well, Brad say, I
Speaker 1: know you gotta go, but I appreciate it coming on
Speaker 1: spending a few minutes with us and continued the success.
Speaker 1: You're great man. We love listening to you on the
Speaker 1: play by play calls. I appreciate it. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: Everybody stayed safe and healthy. Alright, awesome, Thank you Brad
Speaker 1: Sham again the voice of the Dallas Cowbany. You already
Speaker 1: knew that you've been listening to this podcast, and he
Speaker 1: had to go. He's a very busy man. The man
Speaker 1: is the voice of the Dallas Cowboys. He can't be
Speaker 1: slumming too long on a random podcast. We gotta we
Speaker 1: gotta get him back because I I only guess gon
Speaker 1: I just barely put my toe in the water. Like
Speaker 1: I have so many questions, uh, from different eras of
Speaker 1: the NFL that I would like to get into if
Speaker 1: we can have Brad on again, because he is a walking,
Speaker 1: talking encyclopedia of the NFL. And I touched on a
Speaker 1: little bit there about the nineteen seventies and watching NFL
Speaker 1: films and stuff, But like, what was it like with
Speaker 1: the Cowboys when he was traveling with the team back
Speaker 1: when you remember how how big the Cowboys were with
Speaker 1: Emmett and Aikman and Irvin that era. I mean, they
Speaker 1: were rock stars at that time. Yeah, I was gonna
Speaker 1: ask you before we got on, and and we can
Speaker 1: ask Brad when we come back, because you always get
Speaker 1: broadcasters that have been with an organization to twenty thirty
Speaker 1: years that have those those catchphrases, and so I guess
Speaker 1: I could ask you now, but in the NFL, do
Speaker 1: you have another call that's as good as his when
Speaker 1: he says walking the dog? Uh, well, the one the
Speaker 1: NFL call that pops into my head when you say
Speaker 1: something like that would be the Bill King Holy Roller call. Right,
Speaker 1: Remember that it was a Raider Charger game. I think
Speaker 1: it was um and that was that was ridunculous um.
Speaker 1: But you know, off the top of my head, no,
Speaker 1: there's some guys like I love the guy in Kansas
Speaker 1: City touchdown cans, you know, but that's just the touchdown.
Speaker 1: What about your boys in uh, your boys in Minnesota
Speaker 1: when Dalvin Cookie is like he is loose? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the Vikings, absolutely, that's a that's a good one. In fact,
Speaker 1: we we have a lot of drops in the system
Speaker 1: from outtakes of Viking games when Christian Ponder was the
Speaker 1: Viking quarterback and uh yeah, let's just say that was
Speaker 1: not um the smoothest era of Viking football. Yes, and
Speaker 1: he threw that's like shades of Ryan Linley at Arizona
Speaker 1: with the Cardinals when he had to play a playoff
Speaker 1: game and had a like a completion percentage of Yeah.
Speaker 1: But Paul Allen, who we should. I gotta get, we
Speaker 1: gotta get. We were talking about having him on the
Speaker 1: podcast from Minnesota. We would love to get Paul Allen
Speaker 1: on and break it down. But Paul Allen his call was,
Speaker 1: why why would you even ponder passing? It was? It
Speaker 1: was hilarious, it was it was so. And then the
Speaker 1: other one, um, I think it was I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: this was Paul Allen. The Vikings were playing the forty Niners.
Speaker 1: This is actually a few years back, not that long ago,
Speaker 1: and the Niners the big story. They signed a guy
Speaker 1: from the Aussie League, an Australian league football guy, remember,
Speaker 1: and he was the punt returner. Yeah, and so it
Speaker 1: was like a Monday night or a Thursday night game.
Speaker 1: I forget which, but it was his first game and
Speaker 1: he they Vikings punt the ball of the guy and
Speaker 1: he drops it and Paul Allen screams the odds he
Speaker 1: must It was perfect. It was so and for years
Speaker 1: we play that. Unfortunately robertos new and so like every
Speaker 1: time I change engineers, like all the old drops vanish
Speaker 1: because that's a previous engineer, and so then we have
Speaker 1: to you know, you have it's like their own fingerprint
Speaker 1: on the show where they play their own drops, and like,
Speaker 1: we lost a lot of the genie and met for stuff,
Speaker 1: but in Robertos put some new things and we've got
Speaker 1: some new toys that we play with, which I'm fine
Speaker 1: with because that keeps the thing fresh. Right. We can't
Speaker 1: you can't keep playing the same drops that I played
Speaker 1: with Art Martinez in Tree. You can't do it now
Speaker 1: because stuff changes. And I mean back then we were
Speaker 1: playing the drops were like Jeff Garcia Crisp was a drop,
Speaker 1: Alan Iver was in practice it was what was the
Speaker 1: his mom's name, I forget his mom, but did you
Speaker 1: want to tell you that screaming into the microphone? That
Speaker 1: was a funny drop that we played a lot. It
Speaker 1: was an incident with Ivers and his girlfriend at the time.
Speaker 1: And yeah, soh so all that, but yeah, I mean, listen,
Speaker 1: Sham's an all time great He's done a bunch of
Speaker 1: other stuff too. We didn't get into it, like he
Speaker 1: actually left the Cowboys for a couple of years to
Speaker 1: do the Texas Rangers. Yeah, he was a tech. So
Speaker 1: he's done both the NFL and Major League Baseball, done
Speaker 1: a bunch of college games, uh and so, and it
Speaker 1: was great to talk to him. Yeah, And I like
Speaker 1: the fact because he's he's seen the top of the
Speaker 1: mountain and also the basement in the years that that
Speaker 1: Trey Aikman was there in Dallas. I mean, obviously they
Speaker 1: won a couple of Super Bowl three Super Bowls, but
Speaker 1: that team was also dreadful prior to that. I think
Speaker 1: they were one in fifteen, the year prior than going
Speaker 1: on that run. So he's seen some some god awful
Speaker 1: football and then he's seen the best of the best. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, you do it and we're gonna get
Speaker 1: into this too. Like it's it is different. It's obviously
Speaker 1: different when you're calling you're supposed to say, wow, it's
Speaker 1: the same, you know, and all that stuff when you
Speaker 1: when you're calling it. But but it's a lot more
Speaker 1: fun when the team is good. You know, when you're
Speaker 1: polishing turds, it's it does not it's not as he's
Speaker 1: like the old line. I love the Ralph Lawler back
Speaker 1: in the day in his computer like mind, the great
Speaker 1: Ralph Lawler. But you know, when you're calling the Clippers
Speaker 1: and they're terrible, and then when they're good, it's it's
Speaker 1: obviously a lot more fun. But you're it's like you're
Speaker 1: the voice of doom. You know, it's like when you're calling,
Speaker 1: it's like the exact opposite for sports talk radio because
Speaker 1: you want chaos, and ma'am hell, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: absolutely know. I've always said the greatest sports talk radio
Speaker 1: is teams losing. The better stories in the losing locker room.
Speaker 1: That's where the stories. It is, absolutely where the story is,
Speaker 1: because uh and I know this and I have lived it,
Speaker 1: because I was able to do Dodger Talk very lucky
Speaker 1: in my career and also, believe it or not, remotely,
Speaker 1: I did the Red Sock Review Show, which is their
Speaker 1: version of Dodger Talk, and I noticed the same tendencies
Speaker 1: in l A and Boston, thousands of miles apart that
Speaker 1: when the hometown team won, not a lot of excitement,
Speaker 1: not a lot of buzz right when things were going well,
Speaker 1: But when they lost, all right, oh my god, you
Speaker 1: gotta fire the manager, the pitching coaches a bum. You
Speaker 1: gotta trade this guy, Joe blow, get him out here,
Speaker 1: bring in Johnny six pack. You know, the whole thing.
Speaker 1: And uh and I love the the chaos and the
Speaker 1: reason for that is actually a great John F. Kennedy
Speaker 1: quote right that victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat
Speaker 1: isn't orphan, And that's right, it is because you know anybody,
Speaker 1: and when you win, everyone wants to kiss your ass
Speaker 1: and tell you how great you are. So that's why
Speaker 1: the better stories and losing locker room because then you
Speaker 1: gotta answer questions, and then you gotta get surly, right,
Speaker 1: you get upset and all that. So and I I
Speaker 1: love it. I thought Brad made an interesting point, and
Speaker 1: you know this obviously from doing a four hour talk
Speaker 1: radio show, is that it's a wonderful thing that we
Speaker 1: have information at our fingertips, but it's also a horrible
Speaker 1: thing that we have information at our fingertips because it
Speaker 1: messes with the nuance of telling a story and painting
Speaker 1: a picture as opposed to just reading line line line, copy,
Speaker 1: line line line. You get some guys are so robotic,
Speaker 1: especially in baseball. Like I know, the game of baseball
Speaker 1: is is made up now of saber metrics, and guys
Speaker 1: weren't about launch angles and exit velocity. But if you
Speaker 1: don't tell the story, and if you don't have history
Speaker 1: behind players and games, then you then you lose the
Speaker 1: context of it. And you're better off just watching the
Speaker 1: game on on game cast or something of that nature. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree, And I worked h Dodging talk with Ross Porter,
Speaker 1: who we gotta get him on this podcast to at
Speaker 1: some point the great Ross Porter talking to Dodger Baseball
Speaker 1: Baseball Trivial. I love ross Man, He's great and I
Speaker 1: haven't seen him in a while, so we should give
Speaker 1: him a buzz, get him on. But Ross was like
Speaker 1: early in on that analysis stuff. He and but he
Speaker 1: it was back in the stone age where it's hard
Speaker 1: to get those numbers, but he found them. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure how he found them, but he knew. You know,
Speaker 1: he'd go like, you know, Dale Murfrey, he's bat in
Speaker 1: three seventy on a Tuesday afternoon in July. You know,
Speaker 1: historically he'd have all that, he'd be able to explore that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, Sham was absolutely correct. The epidemic of information, right,
Speaker 1: the infodemic where you just you over don't you overindulge.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like a fat guy and all you
Speaker 1: can eat restaurant. You know, you go a little, you
Speaker 1: go a little too much, you over overeat. I've done
Speaker 1: it right, and you go Joey Chestnut and then you're like,
Speaker 1: I gotta go to the fat farm because I've had
Speaker 1: too much information here. But yeah, it is. It is
Speaker 1: something man and and thinking about his seventies, and I
Speaker 1: remember when I got even I and I don't think
Speaker 1: I'm that apparently I am. I'm becoming old. But I
Speaker 1: remember when I got into radio talk radio and I
Speaker 1: watched through. I learned by as most is how Hacks
Speaker 1: did his thing, and he gave me some pointers. But
Speaker 1: Hack saw in those days the internet was I was.
Speaker 1: It was his stone age. He didn't have what it was.
Speaker 1: It was the early days of the internet. We still
Speaker 1: had at at the mighty six nine in San Diego,
Speaker 1: we had the sports ticker in the AP news Wire,
Speaker 1: and that was really the way we got the information.
Speaker 1: There'd be a breaking news bulletin on the AP Sports
Speaker 1: Wire and you'd wait for that news bulletin, and then
Speaker 1: sports ticker for the scores, and and then Hacks I
Speaker 1: would be he would be reading the newspapers like the
Speaker 1: Milwaukee Journal, Sentinel or whatever, trying to get information out
Speaker 1: of it for his fifteen minute open. Now you go
Speaker 1: anywhere and it's it's non stop. You can wolf down
Speaker 1: seven seventeen thousand newspapers and some of them charge, which
Speaker 1: you know, who pays for that on the internet. But
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's it's it's crazy that that was bad.
Speaker 1: That was bad in the day when breaking news was
Speaker 1: actually breaking news. Yes, yes, now stuff happens and then
Speaker 1: you know, you don't even know when it first starts.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like everyone's eating magic mushrooms these days,
Speaker 1: and it's like did that, does that new? Or is
Speaker 1: that two days old? Or I'm not sure what's going on?
Speaker 1: And you know, and then the other thing is like
Speaker 1: what is what is really? Everyone's got an agenda, Everyone's
Speaker 1: always had an agenda, but just maybe I'm because you know,
Speaker 1: back in the good old days, it just seems like
Speaker 1: even people at agendas then, and they had biases, but
Speaker 1: it just seems like it's so and people live in
Speaker 1: their own boxes. Right. If you're a Democrat, you only
Speaker 1: listen to people that tell you what to do. If
Speaker 1: you're Republican, the same thing. But it's it's it's just
Speaker 1: an all not just political stuff. I think it's everything's
Speaker 1: kind of slanted depending you know, it's the same thing
Speaker 1: in sports, because if you love the Cowboys, you only
Speaker 1: want to get positive Cowboys stuff apparently, so you'll go
Speaker 1: read cowboys dot com. You know, we're not gonna hear
Speaker 1: a lot of negative stuff on Cowboys dot Com or
Speaker 1: any of those teams that have their own websites, and
Speaker 1: you get information, but it's just completely filtered information. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the other thing too is now that agents have
Speaker 1: an extension of the media, they're able to leak content
Speaker 1: to reporters or news agencies if there's a client that
Speaker 1: they have that's on the fence about an extension or
Speaker 1: a new contractor wants to be traded. So there's ways
Speaker 1: to manipulate and funk with the market that way. Well,
Speaker 1: we had that, you know, who knows if it's true
Speaker 1: or not, but we believe our guy Holiday, who is
Speaker 1: related to Michael Thomas of the Saints, and we asked Holiday,
Speaker 1: what's going on. You know, it's because Thomas was in
Speaker 1: the doghouse and he wasn't playing and he was hurt.
Speaker 1: But people think he was being benched and they claimed
Speaker 1: he was hurt and that old thing. And Holidays said
Speaker 1: that it was Michael Thomas who got upset with the
Speaker 1: Saints and went to his agent, and then the agent
Speaker 1: is the one that contacted the NFL insider crowd to
Speaker 1: toss Michael Thomas's name out in the you know, the
Speaker 1: rumor mill, right, you know, to give the the rumor
Speaker 1: out there. And so he had an agenda. He wanted
Speaker 1: to let the Saints know, Hey, I can go play
Speaker 1: somewhere else. And so some NFL insider said there was
Speaker 1: a mounting belief, you know, or some of the one
Speaker 1: and whatever we as a word you know that you
Speaker 1: want to throw out there. Um, so, yeah, a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff does come from agency. But back I'd also
Speaker 1: like to point out when I was around the Dodgers
Speaker 1: and I was around baseball in general, a lot of
Speaker 1: the stuff would come from the people that worked behind
Speaker 1: the scenes, the support staff, the locker room attendance, people
Speaker 1: like that, because and I know this to be true
Speaker 1: when when free agency was coming around in baseball, and
Speaker 1: I don't know that they still do this, but the
Speaker 1: general manager of the front office would call down to
Speaker 1: the equipment guy and say, hey, um, you've got to
Speaker 1: get you know, X Y n Z jersey ready because
Speaker 1: we might this guy and we're gonna have a news
Speaker 1: conference and we need the jersey for the photo op
Speaker 1: and I remember that might might not have been in
Speaker 1: the way that some of the free agents the Dodgers
Speaker 1: were interested in got out. Uh. One of the most
Speaker 1: famous stories. I guess you can tell because I think
Speaker 1: this is on the public record. I don't want to
Speaker 1: only some of these people I still know and he
Speaker 1: still worked there, so I don't give in trouble. But
Speaker 1: Randy Johnson was he signed with Arizona. But he the
Speaker 1: thought was he was gonna go to the Dodgers, so
Speaker 1: they had a jersey made. They anticipated they're gonna get
Speaker 1: Randy Johnson before he went to Arizona. How would that
Speaker 1: have changed things? Maybe not at all, who knows. But
Speaker 1: but Randy so cow guy. But he signed with Arizona.
Speaker 1: The reasons. The legend is he walked into the old
Speaker 1: Raggedy Dodger clubhouse, the same clubhouse that Sandy Kofax had
Speaker 1: been in back in the day or whatever. And he's
Speaker 1: too small. I'm out now. The clubhouse at Dodger Stadium
Speaker 1: is like the taj Mahal. They redid that. The Googenheim
Speaker 1: partners that on the Dodge just man, they went all
Speaker 1: in on that. They lay loaded up, loaded up. That
Speaker 1: is a country club. Yeah, that's what that is speaking of,
Speaker 1: which that was pretty interesting that what Brad had mentioned
Speaker 1: with with the way that they're actually calling games and
Speaker 1: he's looking at that giant screen in Jerry's world to
Speaker 1: call action um as opposed to maybe necessarily being live
Speaker 1: at a venue nowadays. Yeah, you know, I, I know,
Speaker 1: I was playing around with Brad. Brad got a little
Speaker 1: defensive on that. I was, Okay, did you call games before?
Speaker 1: But I did when I was a kid, and I
Speaker 1: was like, hey, I would like to do this someday.
Speaker 1: I originally wanted to be a play by play guy.
Speaker 1: So I think most kids my age, maybe not now,
Speaker 1: we would would do it, you know. And that's how
Speaker 1: they you know, they would they would call games and stuff.
Speaker 1: It's like you go full, you go full. Ronald Reagan,
Speaker 1: right full. Ronald Reagan was a w h O in
Speaker 1: Des Moines, Iowa who would call cub games and uh,
Speaker 1: you know the famous story about Reagan and I read
Speaker 1: this and it's it's a great story because having worked
Speaker 1: in broadcasting, you love when crap goes wrong and you
Speaker 1: have to you have to improvise. But one time, so
Speaker 1: he was calling the game off he wasn't even calling
Speaker 1: it off TV because this is back before before TV
Speaker 1: was regularly consumed. So Reagan was doing radio calling CUB games,
Speaker 1: recreating them, but he was doing it off the teletype
Speaker 1: the ticker, so the wire breaks, right, So this is
Speaker 1: the only way that then just civilian Ronald Reagan was
Speaker 1: able to call CUB games, and so he has no information.
Speaker 1: So so, uh you know, he's like, what are we
Speaker 1: gonna do here? And uh so he then he would
Speaker 1: he would talk about the batter keeping he said, the
Speaker 1: batter would keep fouling off the pitch until the ticker
Speaker 1: came back. He would just you know, like they be
Speaker 1: a million foul balls and there's still two strikes. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: So it was it was pretty funny back back in
Speaker 1: the day. Back in the day, it's great to hear
Speaker 1: like like guys like Brad, guys like Scully, guys that
Speaker 1: have gone through those different stages. And I mean, I
Speaker 1: I know, obviously he's make believe, but Bob Yuker when
Speaker 1: he played Harry Doyle, That's that's why I thought of
Speaker 1: sports casters when I grew up, Like, Okay, there's a
Speaker 1: guy getting himself loose by drinking some jack getting a
Speaker 1: guest gun. Let me tell you when I first started,
Speaker 1: some of those guys did get loose. Jack Harry Carry
Speaker 1: Callis had a few pops some time at the time.
Speaker 1: Harry Callis, Harry Harry Harry Carry. I'm Srry Carry a
Speaker 1: legendary of course. Yeah, Harry didn't even hide it. He
Speaker 1: bragged about it. Who was? Who was? I forget his name?
Speaker 1: M de Trait Tigers, Ernie Harwell, Yeah, Ernie Harwell, there
Speaker 1: you go. I don't know that he did. Ernie was
Speaker 1: a pretty straight laced guy. Met him obviously near the
Speaker 1: end of his career there. But Ernie was great, very
Speaker 1: nice guy. I always say he wore the same hat
Speaker 1: I wear. Now you know that he wore the paper
Speaker 1: boy hat. Yeah, yeah, which I guess there's an old
Speaker 1: guy's hat. But I like it. It's a good, good thing.
Speaker 1: Ernie was. Yeah. I feel like I got to meet
Speaker 1: Ernie Harwell, Harry Carry, Harry Callis, Scully, uh, the the
Speaker 1: Mets legend, Ralph Kiner who did it did the Mets
Speaker 1: on television, met him for a good stretch. Just keep
Speaker 1: carry the braves guy. I grew up watching him on TBS,
Speaker 1: the superstation Atlanta Braves baseball. They were terrible. And you
Speaker 1: met you met Sterling too, right, yeah, John Still. I
Speaker 1: met him at the the Yankees came in to play
Speaker 1: the Dodgers in the press box. There was very nice.
Speaker 1: And the other one it just passed away a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago in Sandy Goes It last year. Oh
Speaker 1: dick Enberg, you have the great dick Enburg. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: was fantastic. It was great, very smooth, Yeah, smooth delivery
Speaker 1: and he was He was good across everything, football, baseball, tennis, golf.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm doing my Pat O'Brien where I'm
Speaker 1: just dropping names. Now, I feel like I'm doing my
Speaker 1: o b It's a little bit different because you're not
Speaker 1: like in Brentwood right now, eating a burrito and just
Speaker 1: casual talk. I still haven't called Pat to follow up
Speaker 1: because I Pat offered to take me out to lunch,
Speaker 1: but I haven't. Everything in California is all left up now,
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna wait. See here's my move on this.
Speaker 1: All right? Let me tell you this is a veterman move.
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm hoping that by April of stuff will
Speaker 1: be open back up, you know, because I'll even have
Speaker 1: a magic pill or something like that, or uh, this
Speaker 1: thing will take its course the corona. So then I'm
Speaker 1: gonna wait, and then I'm gonna hit Pat up. And
Speaker 1: knowing Pat, he'll take me to some steakhouse in Beverly
Speaker 1: Hills or something like that, and and I'll get to
Speaker 1: enjoy a nice meal if I go. Now, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: eat a box lunch outside my burrito with Pat on
Speaker 1: the street in Beverly Hills. Who wants to do that?
Speaker 1: Why don't you invite him over? And you can cook
Speaker 1: a steak here we go? All right? Just you, you
Speaker 1: brought it up. You brought it up. All right? Are
Speaker 1: we done? I'm done, by the way. You gotta tonight,
Speaker 1: you gotta, you gotta listen to a special special edition
Speaker 1: of Benny Versus Pain. This is the week I'm actually
Speaker 1: gonna try to get the picks right. Uh, this is
Speaker 1: the week I'm gonna actually try to do well. I
Speaker 1: was sand bagging, but now it's now it's winning time.
Speaker 1: I can salvage the season. I can salvage you. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, last week was to take your trash out week.
Speaker 1: But I will be back. I will be back tonight
Speaker 1: at nine thirty nine, thirty in the West, and that's
Speaker 1: twelve thirty in the Witching Hour in the East. So
Speaker 1: we'll have Benny Versus the Penny and that's on Friday
Speaker 1: night in the A little depressing because that that also
Speaker 1: means that we're officially halfway home with the NFL regular season. Well,
Speaker 1: that's a blessing and a curse because that means no
Speaker 1: more Benny Versus the Penny unless we have a spin off,
Speaker 1: which we we've talked about, but who knows. Yeah, we'll
Speaker 1: see you keep going. Now. We asked a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks ago for for tickets for anyone that um took
Speaker 1: a five team parlay, anything of that nature as we
Speaker 1: were doing some of the Benny Versus the Penny games
Speaker 1: and then also presidential stuff. Did you get any pictures
Speaker 1: twittered to you, d m to you anything. No, I
Speaker 1: got none. No one took us up on that guest God,
Speaker 1: and there was Monday to be made. We got the
Speaker 1: guaranteed we got right now. I think your boy Steve
Speaker 1: in Seattle, I think he did do some pro games
Speaker 1: though yeah, I don't know if he did political, but
Speaker 1: I know he did some pro game well the pro
Speaker 1: see the political stuff you're not technically allowed to bet
Speaker 1: as an American on the election. But as we know,
Speaker 1: the off shore books kind of the they have more
Speaker 1: loose they're fast and loose with the rules, so there
Speaker 1: are ways you could have done it. It's it's more
Speaker 1: it's not like you can go into your local sports
Speaker 1: book if you're in Jersey or something like that and say, hey,
Speaker 1: I want to put a couple of bucks down on
Speaker 1: you know, I Trump winning Mississippi or something like. You can't.
Speaker 1: You're not allowed to do that. So I feel I
Speaker 1: feel like in in the next in the next four years,
Speaker 1: when we have our next presidential election, the elections should
Speaker 1: be started off with a musicians singing the national anthem.
Speaker 1: That way, we can bet on the time of it
Speaker 1: and then get the election underway. I feel like that's
Speaker 1: the way that we do with the Super Bowl and
Speaker 1: then everything else follows after that. Yeah. Well, eventually they're
Speaker 1: doing mail and voting now, but I'm guessing like ten
Speaker 1: fifteen years from now, they'll just have like a text voting,
Speaker 1: you know, just text your vote, you know, name the
Speaker 1: name the candidate texted in. You know, what could go wrong,
Speaker 1: what could possibly grow? Well, that's the evolution, right you
Speaker 1: think you know? He just keep moving it forward and
Speaker 1: forward and forward and for warden Ford. And then I
Speaker 1: would guess, depending on what happens with the elections in January,
Speaker 1: not to get too political, we'll have we could have
Speaker 1: Puerto Rico become a state, right are they talking about
Speaker 1: adding another couple of states? Puerto Rico, d C. There
Speaker 1: you go. So then would be fifty two states, which, uh,
Speaker 1: how about Guam? Can we make Guama states? About Guam territory? What? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm making a state. Come on out there in the
Speaker 1: middle of the Pacific. It's like a way point between
Speaker 1: Hawaii and the and the Asian countries. It took you
Speaker 1: a while to climb to that third rail, but but
Speaker 1: you're there. Thank you. I appreciate that because I gotta
Speaker 1: get I gotta get out of you. I got things
Speaker 1: to do. How dare you? We want podcasts on Saturday
Speaker 1: and Sunday and an exclusive, So I saved this story
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about on Saturday for this podcast. I
Speaker 1: was gonna do a bit on the radio show, but
Speaker 1: I wanted to give this some time. It's about another
Speaker 1: sports icon and I happened to cross pass with this icon,
Speaker 1: but thanks to Brad Sham who was on earlier here
Speaker 1: and have a great day. Remember Benny Versus the Penny
Speaker 1: tonight nine thirty in the West and just midway through
Speaker 1: the Witching hour of twelve thirty in the morning on
Speaker 1: early Saturday Friday into Saturday in the East. We'll catch you. Then,
Speaker 1: be sure to catch live editions of The Ben Meller
Speaker 1: Show weekdays at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific