1 00:00:16,271 --> 00:00:33,071 Speaker 1: Pushkin From the day the story broke in lebanon early November. 2 00:00:34,031 --> 00:00:41,231 Speaker 1: All the possible outcomes and worsening scandal were immediately obvious, 3 00:00:41,311 --> 00:00:48,711 Speaker 1: it seemed to me, and I reached the conclusion that 4 00:00:48,871 --> 00:00:53,150 Speaker 1: at least if you can't turn things around, maybe you 5 00:00:53,311 --> 00:01:00,831 Speaker 1: can atone and I won't develop for you the nature 6 00:01:00,911 --> 00:01:03,311 Speaker 1: of depression and how it can worsen and lead to 7 00:01:03,351 --> 00:01:07,311 Speaker 1: a cycle of decline. And yet that was what was happening. 8 00:01:08,511 --> 00:01:10,991 Speaker 2: One of the most important figures in the Iran Contra affair, 9 00:01:11,111 --> 00:01:14,071 Speaker 2: Robert McFarlan, is in a hospital tonight. The former National 10 00:01:14,151 --> 00:01:17,511 Speaker 2: Security advisor apparently took an overdose of valium as an 11 00:01:17,551 --> 00:01:18,671 Speaker 2: attempted suicide. 12 00:01:18,991 --> 00:01:22,031 Speaker 3: It was shortly after seven am when Missus McFarland tried 13 00:01:22,071 --> 00:01:23,871 Speaker 3: to rouse her husband and couldn't. 14 00:01:28,871 --> 00:01:32,511 Speaker 4: In the months after the Iran Contra scandal broke, Bud 15 00:01:32,551 --> 00:01:35,271 Speaker 4: McFarlane had felt a duty to take responsibility for it. 16 00:01:36,431 --> 00:01:39,311 Speaker 4: McFarland believed he was the only one in Reagan's inner 17 00:01:39,311 --> 00:01:42,191 Speaker 4: circle who could have stopped the arms for Hostages initiative, 18 00:01:43,151 --> 00:01:47,911 Speaker 4: and he had failed. Still, McFarland had maintained hope that 19 00:01:47,951 --> 00:01:51,631 Speaker 4: the administration could set the scandal aside and recommit itself 20 00:01:51,671 --> 00:01:56,071 Speaker 4: to its foreign policy ambitions. If McFarlane could help his 21 00:01:56,111 --> 00:01:59,231 Speaker 4: former colleagues in the White House make that happen, maybe 22 00:01:59,271 --> 00:02:00,191 Speaker 4: he could set things right. 23 00:02:00,551 --> 00:02:06,031 Speaker 1: Yeah, I still had this foolish I think believe that 24 00:02:06,751 --> 00:02:09,590 Speaker 1: we shouldn't close down the government with a scandal in 25 00:02:09,671 --> 00:02:13,431 Speaker 1: pre occupation with it when you had other things that 26 00:02:13,550 --> 00:02:14,831 Speaker 1: still needed to be done. 27 00:02:15,591 --> 00:02:18,351 Speaker 4: So McFarland wrote down the policy goals he thought the 28 00:02:18,351 --> 00:02:20,071 Speaker 4: administration could still pursue. 29 00:02:20,591 --> 00:02:23,191 Speaker 1: The President had achieved quite a lot, that is, he 30 00:02:23,311 --> 00:02:27,270 Speaker 1: had teed up opportunities that were enormous, and I wrote 31 00:02:27,271 --> 00:02:32,591 Speaker 1: down what ought to be done in four areas where 32 00:02:32,631 --> 00:02:35,791 Speaker 1: we would be taking an initiative of importance to our country. 33 00:02:36,791 --> 00:02:39,431 Speaker 4: When he was finished, McFarlane says that he submitted the 34 00:02:39,431 --> 00:02:42,031 Speaker 4: memo to the President, the Vice President, and the Secretary 35 00:02:42,071 --> 00:02:42,431 Speaker 4: of State. 36 00:02:43,191 --> 00:02:46,231 Speaker 1: But I didn't even get an answer. One of the 37 00:02:46,431 --> 00:02:49,671 Speaker 1: three did. I'd forgotten who it was, But I had 38 00:02:49,951 --> 00:02:52,431 Speaker 1: no signal that any of it was being considered. 39 00:02:52,511 --> 00:02:52,911 Speaker 5: And so. 40 00:02:54,431 --> 00:02:56,631 Speaker 1: To me, that was kind of a moment of truth 41 00:02:56,791 --> 00:03:03,311 Speaker 1: that your best efforts have failed. You have exhausted all 42 00:03:03,471 --> 00:03:09,751 Speaker 1: possible recourse for salvaging the considerable gains that could be 43 00:03:09,791 --> 00:03:12,911 Speaker 1: made aid and under President Reagan's leadership. 44 00:03:13,711 --> 00:03:16,951 Speaker 4: When McFarland saw that his memo was being ignored, he 45 00:03:17,031 --> 00:03:19,951 Speaker 4: became convinced that the promise of the Reagan administration had 46 00:03:19,991 --> 00:03:25,151 Speaker 4: been truly squandered and that it was partly his fault. Later, 47 00:03:25,511 --> 00:03:28,071 Speaker 4: McFarland explained his decision to try to take his own 48 00:03:28,111 --> 00:03:32,191 Speaker 4: life by invoking the Japanese ritual of seppuku, a form 49 00:03:32,231 --> 00:03:35,351 Speaker 4: of suicide practiced by disgraced samurai who wanted to restore 50 00:03:35,351 --> 00:03:36,391 Speaker 4: honor to their families. 51 00:03:37,031 --> 00:03:40,671 Speaker 1: It was foolish looking back, but no, it has a 52 00:03:40,711 --> 00:03:46,231 Speaker 1: tradition in the Far East, and it's just more comment 53 00:03:46,351 --> 00:03:48,711 Speaker 1: on how deep the depression had become. 54 00:03:51,911 --> 00:03:56,231 Speaker 4: Around midnight on February eighth, nineteen eighty seven, Bud McFarland 55 00:03:56,271 --> 00:03:59,991 Speaker 4: swallowed roughly thirty volume tablets. When his wife woke up 56 00:03:59,991 --> 00:04:02,511 Speaker 4: the next morning, she saw that something was wrong and 57 00:04:02,551 --> 00:04:03,351 Speaker 4: called an ambulance. 58 00:04:03,511 --> 00:04:06,351 Speaker 3: Missus McFarland was clutching a note from her husband, which 59 00:04:06,391 --> 00:04:08,071 Speaker 3: she refused to show to the medics. 60 00:04:08,191 --> 00:04:10,951 Speaker 2: McFarlan has come under increasing strong as the Iran a 61 00:04:11,071 --> 00:04:11,711 Speaker 2: fair defense. 62 00:04:13,311 --> 00:04:16,270 Speaker 4: McFarlane, who was forty nine years old, was taken to 63 00:04:16,311 --> 00:04:25,190 Speaker 4: a nearby naval hospital to recover. News of McFarland's suicide 64 00:04:25,190 --> 00:04:28,751 Speaker 4: attempt came as multiple investigations into Iran Contra were lurching 65 00:04:28,791 --> 00:04:29,351 Speaker 4: to life. 66 00:04:29,551 --> 00:04:33,950 Speaker 6: The nation's one hundredth Congress convened today clearly preoccupied with 67 00:04:33,991 --> 00:04:35,431 Speaker 6: the Iran Contra crisis. 68 00:04:35,471 --> 00:04:37,671 Speaker 4: The House and the Senate had both formed committees to 69 00:04:37,671 --> 00:04:40,270 Speaker 4: look into the matter, and they were preparing for public hearings. 70 00:04:40,631 --> 00:04:43,511 Speaker 6: After a long debate, the Senate finally approved a resolution 71 00:04:43,711 --> 00:04:46,991 Speaker 6: authorizing a bipartisan committee to investigate. 72 00:04:46,551 --> 00:04:50,711 Speaker 7: Adopted overwhelmingly bipartisanly by a margin of four hundred and. 73 00:04:50,631 --> 00:04:51,351 Speaker 8: Sixteen to two. 74 00:04:51,471 --> 00:04:54,031 Speaker 7: The House also established its Select Committee. 75 00:04:54,151 --> 00:04:57,591 Speaker 4: While Congress set its inquiry in motion, prosecutors working in 76 00:04:57,591 --> 00:05:01,071 Speaker 4: the Office of the Independent Council were undertaking a separate investigation. 77 00:05:01,271 --> 00:05:04,511 Speaker 8: Lawrence Walsh, a former judge and former Deputy Attorney General, 78 00:05:04,911 --> 00:05:07,111 Speaker 8: demand to search for any criminal wrongdoing. 79 00:05:07,671 --> 00:05:11,271 Speaker 4: Unlike Congress, the Independent Council was pursuing a criminal probe 80 00:05:11,711 --> 00:05:14,271 Speaker 4: intended to identify any illegal acts that may have been 81 00:05:14,311 --> 00:05:15,991 Speaker 4: committed as part of Iran contract. 82 00:05:16,071 --> 00:05:19,591 Speaker 7: I think that we have a statutory basis to believe 83 00:05:19,671 --> 00:05:22,511 Speaker 7: that a federal law may have been violated. 84 00:05:22,431 --> 00:05:25,271 Speaker 4: And then there was the Tower Commission, a three person 85 00:05:25,311 --> 00:05:27,991 Speaker 4: panel appointed by the President that included a former national 86 00:05:27,991 --> 00:05:30,271 Speaker 4: security advisor and two former senators. 87 00:05:30,591 --> 00:05:34,671 Speaker 6: Former Texas Senator John Tower, former National Security Advisor Brent Scolcroft, 88 00:05:34,791 --> 00:05:37,191 Speaker 6: and former Secretary of State Edmund Muski are. 89 00:05:37,151 --> 00:05:37,871 Speaker 9: The other members. 90 00:05:38,071 --> 00:05:40,471 Speaker 4: Their job was to find out what had gone wrong 91 00:05:40,551 --> 00:05:42,991 Speaker 4: in the White House and then share their findings with 92 00:05:43,071 --> 00:05:46,311 Speaker 4: the public. The Tower Commission was most focused on the 93 00:05:46,391 --> 00:05:47,711 Speaker 4: National Security Council. 94 00:05:47,871 --> 00:05:51,751 Speaker 2: The panel reportably has expanded its investigation to include possible 95 00:05:51,791 --> 00:05:53,351 Speaker 2: attempts to cover up the scandal. 96 00:05:54,791 --> 00:05:58,390 Speaker 4: Looking back, it's no surprise McFarland's foreign policy memo didn't 97 00:05:58,391 --> 00:06:02,551 Speaker 4: get more attention. Reagan was under siege and the notion 98 00:06:02,591 --> 00:06:04,431 Speaker 4: that he could just set the scandal aside and get 99 00:06:04,431 --> 00:06:09,751 Speaker 4: back to business was wishful thinking. As Congress prepared to 100 00:06:09,751 --> 00:06:14,431 Speaker 4: hold hearings, the American public wanted answers. What had the 101 00:06:14,431 --> 00:06:17,551 Speaker 4: President known about Iran Contra, when did he know it? 102 00:06:18,031 --> 00:06:21,190 Speaker 4: And had he lied to cover it up. I'm Leon 103 00:06:21,271 --> 00:06:26,351 Speaker 4: Nafok from Prolog Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is fiasco 104 00:06:26,671 --> 00:06:27,510 Speaker 4: Iran contract. 105 00:06:27,551 --> 00:06:31,151 Speaker 8: The full story of the Iran Contra affair begins to 106 00:06:31,311 --> 00:06:33,111 Speaker 8: unfold for all of us to see. 107 00:06:33,031 --> 00:06:34,231 Speaker 10: Colonel lath please rise. 108 00:06:34,311 --> 00:06:37,070 Speaker 3: Oliver North has become the hottest tickets in town. 109 00:06:37,191 --> 00:06:39,271 Speaker 7: The man's become an instant celebrity. 110 00:06:39,431 --> 00:06:44,150 Speaker 2: I mispled the Congress secrecy, deception, and disdain for the law. 111 00:06:44,431 --> 00:06:47,070 Speaker 11: We were shocked. To this day, I'm shocked. 112 00:06:47,391 --> 00:06:51,150 Speaker 12: Millions of Americans have a nagging suspicion that the truth 113 00:06:51,271 --> 00:06:52,431 Speaker 12: has not yet come out. 114 00:06:54,311 --> 00:06:59,311 Speaker 4: Episode six fault Lines, The Iran Contra goes on trial 115 00:06:59,751 --> 00:07:02,871 Speaker 4: as each of its principal architects takes a turn fielding 116 00:07:02,951 --> 00:07:16,351 Speaker 4: the blame. We'll be right back, Bud. McFarlane ended up 117 00:07:16,351 --> 00:07:20,071 Speaker 4: spending about two weeks in the hospital. During his recovery, 118 00:07:20,111 --> 00:07:24,111 Speaker 4: he received several notable visits. One was from former President 119 00:07:24,191 --> 00:07:28,511 Speaker 4: Richard Nixon, who gave McFarland advice on overcoming adversity and 120 00:07:28,591 --> 00:07:32,591 Speaker 4: living with one's mistakes. McFarland was also visited by the 121 00:07:32,591 --> 00:07:35,591 Speaker 4: three members of the Tower Commission, who interviewed him in 122 00:07:35,591 --> 00:07:39,271 Speaker 4: his hospital room for more than six hours. They were 123 00:07:39,311 --> 00:07:42,431 Speaker 4: particularly interested in whether Reagan had pre approved the very 124 00:07:42,471 --> 00:07:48,311 Speaker 4: first arm sales to Iran. McFarlane told them he had. 125 00:07:48,671 --> 00:07:51,511 Speaker 4: Just a few days later, the Tower Commission released its 126 00:07:51,551 --> 00:07:55,071 Speaker 4: report on Iran Contra, It was more than three hundred 127 00:07:55,071 --> 00:07:58,671 Speaker 4: pages long, and its conclusions were not flattering to the president. 128 00:07:59,511 --> 00:08:03,391 Speaker 13: The Special Review Board has completed its work, but it 129 00:08:03,471 --> 00:08:05,791 Speaker 13: might be helpful to give you the highlights of this 130 00:08:06,191 --> 00:08:07,991 Speaker 13: rather lengthy report to the president. 131 00:08:08,551 --> 00:08:11,711 Speaker 4: At a press conference, the commission's chairman and namesake, John 132 00:08:11,791 --> 00:08:16,231 Speaker 4: Tower detailed the president's failings as a manager. Though most 133 00:08:16,231 --> 00:08:18,791 Speaker 4: of the bad ideas had come from Reagan's subordinates, Tower 134 00:08:18,831 --> 00:08:21,311 Speaker 4: said it was his job to watch what they were 135 00:08:21,351 --> 00:08:22,351 Speaker 4: doing and rain them in. 136 00:08:22,911 --> 00:08:25,951 Speaker 13: Now you can say that perhaps this president holds himself 137 00:08:25,951 --> 00:08:29,071 Speaker 13: a little bit too aloof from the implementation of policy. 138 00:08:29,551 --> 00:08:33,111 Speaker 13: But one thing is very very clear that members of 139 00:08:33,151 --> 00:08:35,310 Speaker 13: the system who were privied of what was going on 140 00:08:35,790 --> 00:08:40,030 Speaker 13: failed to the president because the president clearly didn't understand. 141 00:08:40,111 --> 00:08:43,191 Speaker 2: And the President of the United States is described here 142 00:08:43,310 --> 00:08:45,550 Speaker 2: generally as a man who just simply was not very 143 00:08:45,631 --> 00:08:49,151 Speaker 2: much in control of the foreign policy apparatus of his administration. 144 00:08:49,590 --> 00:08:52,871 Speaker 4: The Tower report would not be the final verdict underran contract. 145 00:08:53,391 --> 00:08:56,190 Speaker 4: There were still congressional hearings ahead, as well as potential 146 00:08:56,231 --> 00:08:59,871 Speaker 4: indictments coming out of the Independent Council's Office, but for 147 00:08:59,910 --> 00:09:03,670 Speaker 4: the time being, the report spoke loudly here was a 148 00:09:03,670 --> 00:09:06,631 Speaker 4: panel created by the President, and the best thing they 149 00:09:06,670 --> 00:09:08,831 Speaker 4: could say about him was that he was out to lunch. 150 00:09:13,950 --> 00:09:17,711 Speaker 3: This is an NBCU special President Reagan's response to the 151 00:09:17,710 --> 00:09:21,790 Speaker 3: Tower Commission report. I. 152 00:09:22,030 --> 00:09:25,231 Speaker 14: Fellow Americans, I've spoken to you from this historic office 153 00:09:25,231 --> 00:09:27,190 Speaker 14: on many occasions and about many things. 154 00:09:27,790 --> 00:09:31,910 Speaker 4: On March fourth, nineteen eighty seven, Reagan delivered a primetime 155 00:09:31,950 --> 00:09:34,391 Speaker 4: speech in response to the Tower Board's findings. 156 00:09:34,710 --> 00:09:37,111 Speaker 14: For the past three months, I've been silent on the 157 00:09:37,151 --> 00:09:40,271 Speaker 14: revelations about Iran, and you must have been thinking of 158 00:09:40,550 --> 00:09:43,311 Speaker 14: why doesn't he tell us what's happening. But I've had 159 00:09:43,351 --> 00:09:45,871 Speaker 14: to wait, as you have, for the complete story. 160 00:09:46,590 --> 00:09:50,711 Speaker 4: Reagan called the Tower report honest, convincing, and highly critical. 161 00:09:51,590 --> 00:09:54,231 Speaker 4: Then he referred back to his first public statements about 162 00:09:54,271 --> 00:09:57,030 Speaker 4: the scandal, it admitted that they had been inaccurate. 163 00:09:57,351 --> 00:09:59,670 Speaker 14: A few months ago, I told the American people, I 164 00:09:59,751 --> 00:10:03,311 Speaker 14: did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my 165 00:10:03,391 --> 00:10:06,790 Speaker 14: best intentions still tell me that's true. But the facts 166 00:10:06,871 --> 00:10:10,631 Speaker 14: and the evidence tell me it is. Not reasons why 167 00:10:10,670 --> 00:10:14,391 Speaker 14: it happened, but no excuses. It was a mistake. 168 00:10:15,070 --> 00:10:18,831 Speaker 4: But the time for candid self reflection had passed. As 169 00:10:18,910 --> 00:10:20,830 Speaker 4: much as Reagan may have wanted to move on from 170 00:10:20,830 --> 00:10:24,631 Speaker 4: Iran Contra. The scrutiny was only going to intensify as 171 00:10:24,670 --> 00:10:26,711 Speaker 4: Congress prepared for televised hearings. 172 00:10:27,151 --> 00:10:29,710 Speaker 5: The public and the press wanted to know what the 173 00:10:29,790 --> 00:10:33,590 Speaker 5: hell happened, how high it went, who was responsible for it, 174 00:10:34,111 --> 00:10:36,190 Speaker 5: and was there anything that we didn't know. 175 00:10:36,950 --> 00:10:40,190 Speaker 4: This is John Neilds. He's a former prosecutor who was 176 00:10:40,310 --> 00:10:43,070 Speaker 4: hired by House Democrats as chief counsel to lead their 177 00:10:43,070 --> 00:10:45,630 Speaker 4: investigation and question witnesses during the hearings. 178 00:10:46,070 --> 00:10:49,231 Speaker 5: Our job was to tell the story in a way 179 00:10:49,271 --> 00:10:53,271 Speaker 5: that people could figure out for themselves what things were wrong, 180 00:10:53,790 --> 00:10:56,990 Speaker 5: what things were arguably wrong and arguably right, and what 181 00:10:57,030 --> 00:10:57,831 Speaker 5: things were fine. 182 00:10:58,391 --> 00:11:01,271 Speaker 4: It's important to note that these were not impeachment hearings. 183 00:11:02,351 --> 00:11:05,231 Speaker 4: Neilds was convinced it was highly unlikely that Congress would 184 00:11:05,231 --> 00:11:08,831 Speaker 4: ever take that step. Reagan was too popular and his 185 00:11:08,910 --> 00:11:13,471 Speaker 4: second term was almost up anyway. Also, Neilds thought it 186 00:11:13,511 --> 00:11:16,990 Speaker 4: was pretty clear that whatever Reagan did, his intentions had 187 00:11:17,030 --> 00:11:21,711 Speaker 4: not been malevolent. There was one circumstance in which Congress 188 00:11:21,830 --> 00:11:25,910 Speaker 4: might consider impeachment. According to Neilds, the ranking Republican on 189 00:11:25,950 --> 00:11:29,111 Speaker 4: the committee, Warren Rudman, took the view that impeachment would 190 00:11:29,111 --> 00:11:32,550 Speaker 4: only be appropriate if Reagan had personally authorized the diversion. 191 00:11:33,430 --> 00:11:37,071 Speaker 5: He made it the only issue on which Reagan could 192 00:11:37,111 --> 00:11:40,110 Speaker 5: be impeached. He really wanted to find out as soon 193 00:11:40,151 --> 00:11:43,550 Speaker 5: as possible the facts that, in his mind would answer 194 00:11:43,631 --> 00:11:46,351 Speaker 5: the question, is anything impeachable happened here? 195 00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:50,351 Speaker 2: And this survey finds that public skepticism is now very deep, 196 00:11:50,550 --> 00:11:53,951 Speaker 2: and forty one percent think that President Reagan should resign 197 00:11:54,351 --> 00:11:56,391 Speaker 2: if it turns out he knew that money was being 198 00:11:56,391 --> 00:11:58,951 Speaker 2: diverted to the Nicaraguan contras. 199 00:11:59,310 --> 00:12:02,111 Speaker 4: But as Neil saw it, the diversion, the hyphen at 200 00:12:02,151 --> 00:12:05,230 Speaker 4: the center of Iran contra was only a shiny object, 201 00:12:05,991 --> 00:12:08,190 Speaker 4: a diversion, you might say, from everything else that was 202 00:12:08,231 --> 00:12:11,631 Speaker 4: wrong with the Iran weapons program and the country war individually. 203 00:12:12,190 --> 00:12:16,871 Speaker 5: Knowing whether the president was responsible for the diversion was 204 00:12:16,910 --> 00:12:21,631 Speaker 5: probably the most exciting question that we had to deal with. 205 00:12:22,151 --> 00:12:24,431 Speaker 5: I don't think it has an awful lot to do 206 00:12:25,670 --> 00:12:30,870 Speaker 5: with answering the question of whether this was a shocking 207 00:12:31,030 --> 00:12:36,670 Speaker 5: and really serious a breakdown in the way our government functioned. 208 00:12:37,751 --> 00:12:39,271 Speaker 5: That's what I thought this was about. 209 00:12:39,751 --> 00:12:44,511 Speaker 12: Millions of Americans have a nagging suspicion that the truth 210 00:12:44,631 --> 00:12:46,030 Speaker 12: has not yet come out. 211 00:12:46,271 --> 00:12:50,191 Speaker 15: Three branches must be involved in the governing of the 212 00:12:50,231 --> 00:12:53,871 Speaker 15: people of this country, and when one branch goes all 213 00:12:54,391 --> 00:12:59,351 Speaker 15: wild without even including consultation with the other branches, that 214 00:12:59,830 --> 00:13:00,990 Speaker 15: spells trouble. 215 00:13:07,471 --> 00:13:11,070 Speaker 4: It's hard to overstate how huge an undertake these hearings were. 216 00:13:11,830 --> 00:13:15,551 Speaker 4: Before Congress could publicly question a single witness, Meals and 217 00:13:15,550 --> 00:13:19,310 Speaker 4: his team of investigators had to obtain documents, take depositions, 218 00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:23,151 Speaker 4: and figure out which leads to pursue. That meant probing 219 00:13:23,310 --> 00:13:27,751 Speaker 4: multiple government agencies, including the National Security Council, the State Department, 220 00:13:27,830 --> 00:13:30,831 Speaker 4: the Pentagon, the Justice Department, and the White House itself. 221 00:13:31,830 --> 00:13:35,190 Speaker 4: Then there was the international angle. The Nicaraguin thread alone 222 00:13:35,231 --> 00:13:37,670 Speaker 4: involved members of the Contras who were based in Honduras 223 00:13:37,751 --> 00:13:41,030 Speaker 4: and Costa Rica. On the Iran side of things, the 224 00:13:41,111 --> 00:13:43,950 Speaker 4: investigators would have to make contact with Middle Eastern arms 225 00:13:43,950 --> 00:13:47,591 Speaker 4: dealers and Israeli diplomats. It was hard to say where 226 00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:50,670 Speaker 4: the trail would take them, but even in the simplest scenario, 227 00:13:51,151 --> 00:13:53,030 Speaker 4: Meals and his colleagues were going to have to trace 228 00:13:53,070 --> 00:13:56,110 Speaker 4: millions of dollars moving through a maze of Swiss bank accounts, 229 00:13:56,310 --> 00:13:57,991 Speaker 4: shell companies, and foreign countries. 230 00:13:58,351 --> 00:14:00,991 Speaker 3: The Senate, so like Comeree voted today to order General 231 00:14:01,070 --> 00:14:04,790 Speaker 3: Richard Seacourt to disclose records of Swiss bank accounts he holds. 232 00:14:04,950 --> 00:14:07,830 Speaker 1: See what happened to the money, who set the accounts up, 233 00:14:08,030 --> 00:14:10,151 Speaker 1: who had access to the accounts, how much more when 234 00:14:10,151 --> 00:14:11,871 Speaker 1: it was in the accounts, and where do the money 235 00:14:11,950 --> 00:14:12,751 Speaker 1: go now? 236 00:14:12,991 --> 00:14:16,710 Speaker 5: This was a set of issues that if I had 237 00:14:16,751 --> 00:14:20,311 Speaker 5: been in an assistant US attorney, as I had been 238 00:14:20,431 --> 00:14:22,551 Speaker 5: previously in my life, I would have looked at this 239 00:14:22,590 --> 00:14:25,471 Speaker 5: as a one or two year investigation before you could 240 00:14:25,751 --> 00:14:29,391 Speaker 5: say you've done your job. And it was very clear 241 00:14:29,671 --> 00:14:32,311 Speaker 5: that we were only going to have a matter of months. 242 00:14:33,071 --> 00:14:35,711 Speaker 4: The time crunch was the result of a compromise between 243 00:14:35,751 --> 00:14:40,031 Speaker 4: Democratic and Republican leaders in Congress. As you might imagine, 244 00:14:40,111 --> 00:14:42,830 Speaker 4: Republicans wanted to get the hearings over and done with 245 00:14:42,991 --> 00:14:46,791 Speaker 4: as quickly as possible, while Democrats argued for letting them 246 00:14:46,791 --> 00:14:50,031 Speaker 4: go on as long as they needed to. Hanging over 247 00:14:50,111 --> 00:14:54,071 Speaker 4: this procedural debate was the upcoming presidential election, in which 248 00:14:54,151 --> 00:14:57,830 Speaker 4: Ronald Reagan's vice President, George H. W. Bush was expected 249 00:14:57,871 --> 00:15:01,151 Speaker 4: to run. In the end, it was decided that Congress 250 00:15:01,191 --> 00:15:04,631 Speaker 4: would have until August to get through the hearings. Here 251 00:15:04,710 --> 00:15:07,471 Speaker 4: is Pam Nonton, who worked on the House investigation with 252 00:15:07,551 --> 00:15:08,230 Speaker 4: John Nields. 253 00:15:09,191 --> 00:15:14,311 Speaker 11: It did make more difficult because when you put an 254 00:15:14,391 --> 00:15:16,830 Speaker 11: end date on the investigation before you've even begun it, 255 00:15:17,111 --> 00:15:18,751 Speaker 11: how in the world do you know how long it 256 00:15:18,791 --> 00:15:21,271 Speaker 11: will take. It may take less than that, may take 257 00:15:21,271 --> 00:15:23,870 Speaker 11: more than that. You go where the evidence leads, you 258 00:15:23,911 --> 00:15:24,671 Speaker 11: don't just stop. 259 00:15:25,111 --> 00:15:27,831 Speaker 4: The team divided the case up into silos and assigned 260 00:15:27,911 --> 00:15:31,551 Speaker 4: investigators to each one. Notton, for instance, was put on 261 00:15:31,551 --> 00:15:34,071 Speaker 4: the Department of Justice, which meant she was looking into 262 00:15:34,111 --> 00:15:36,191 Speaker 4: the weekend fact finding mission you heard about in our 263 00:15:36,191 --> 00:15:37,150 Speaker 4: previous episode. 264 00:15:37,830 --> 00:15:41,471 Speaker 11: I mean, obviously I was there to investigate what the 265 00:15:41,551 --> 00:15:46,471 Speaker 11: Attorney General did when this first broke his quote unquote 266 00:15:46,471 --> 00:15:50,271 Speaker 11: investigation to you know, get their quote get their arms 267 00:15:50,271 --> 00:15:55,350 Speaker 11: around the facts, but also the broader issue of what 268 00:15:55,391 --> 00:15:58,791 Speaker 11: did the Department of Justice know about the arms sale? 269 00:16:00,391 --> 00:16:03,791 Speaker 11: So it was sort of a wide swath of things 270 00:16:03,951 --> 00:16:07,111 Speaker 11: because it involved different divisions of the department. 271 00:16:09,871 --> 00:16:13,311 Speaker 4: The clock ticked, Nilds and his team encountered an obstacle 272 00:16:13,391 --> 00:16:16,591 Speaker 4: that was no less daunting than their deadline. Their two 273 00:16:16,710 --> 00:16:20,071 Speaker 4: would be star witnesses, Oliver North and his supervisor John 274 00:16:20,111 --> 00:16:24,431 Speaker 4: Poindexter were going to plead the Fifth North and Poindexter 275 00:16:24,511 --> 00:16:27,791 Speaker 4: would refuse to testify at the hearings unless Congress gave 276 00:16:27,830 --> 00:16:32,591 Speaker 4: them immunity. That meant guaranteeing that North and Poindexter's words 277 00:16:32,590 --> 00:16:34,911 Speaker 4: would not be used against them in a criminal inquiry. 278 00:16:36,191 --> 00:16:38,831 Speaker 4: The situation put Neilds and his team on a collision 279 00:16:38,830 --> 00:16:42,431 Speaker 4: course with the other big Iran contraprobe in Town, the 280 00:16:42,471 --> 00:16:44,551 Speaker 4: Independent Council, Lawrence Walsh. 281 00:16:44,791 --> 00:16:47,551 Speaker 7: In a strongly worded letter accompanied by a legal memo, 282 00:16:47,871 --> 00:16:50,911 Speaker 7: Walsh urges the House Committee not to grant witnesses immunity 283 00:16:51,031 --> 00:16:54,110 Speaker 7: until after his work is done. To do so, he writes, 284 00:16:54,151 --> 00:16:57,991 Speaker 7: would quote create serious and perhaps insurmountable barriers to the 285 00:16:57,991 --> 00:16:59,311 Speaker 7: prosecution of the witnesses. 286 00:16:59,671 --> 00:17:02,911 Speaker 4: Walsh's mandate was to identify any criminal wrongdoing that may 287 00:17:02,951 --> 00:17:06,271 Speaker 4: have occurred as part of Iran Contra. That was why 288 00:17:06,431 --> 00:17:09,591 Speaker 4: North and Poindexter wanted immunity. If they could get it, 289 00:17:10,111 --> 00:17:12,191 Speaker 4: nothing they said to Congress could be used against them 290 00:17:12,191 --> 00:17:13,351 Speaker 4: in an indictment. 291 00:17:13,191 --> 00:17:15,511 Speaker 7: And that the prosecution would have to prove its case 292 00:17:15,630 --> 00:17:16,951 Speaker 7: was based on other information. 293 00:17:17,431 --> 00:17:21,031 Speaker 4: As a former prosecutor, John Neilds understood how much harder 294 00:17:21,031 --> 00:17:23,910 Speaker 4: that would make it for Walsh to build cases, but 295 00:17:23,991 --> 00:17:26,110 Speaker 4: in the end he supported the grant of immunity. 296 00:17:27,511 --> 00:17:29,951 Speaker 5: I felt conflicted. I knew that something good was going 297 00:17:29,991 --> 00:17:32,951 Speaker 5: to come out of it, which was what I thought 298 00:17:33,031 --> 00:17:35,350 Speaker 5: was the more important good, which is the public is 299 00:17:35,390 --> 00:17:37,031 Speaker 5: going to learn everything. 300 00:17:37,271 --> 00:17:40,630 Speaker 2: The Congressional committee's investigating the scandal formally approved a plan 301 00:17:40,791 --> 00:17:43,830 Speaker 2: for a limited immunity for these two men, John Poindexter 302 00:17:43,951 --> 00:17:44,590 Speaker 2: and Oliver. 303 00:17:44,431 --> 00:17:54,591 Speaker 8: North, and here on Capitol Hill today, after months of expectation, 304 00:17:55,031 --> 00:17:58,710 Speaker 8: the full story of the Iran Contra affair begins to 305 00:17:58,870 --> 00:18:00,511 Speaker 8: unfold for all of us to see. 306 00:18:00,671 --> 00:18:04,231 Speaker 4: The Iran contray hearings opened on May fifth, nineteen eighty seven, 307 00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:07,311 Speaker 4: a little more than six months after the scandal broke. 308 00:18:08,471 --> 00:18:11,190 Speaker 4: They were run by a joint committee, meaning the House 309 00:18:11,271 --> 00:18:14,191 Speaker 4: and the Senate were combining their investigations so that witnesses 310 00:18:14,231 --> 00:18:15,710 Speaker 4: wouldn't have to testify twice. 311 00:18:16,471 --> 00:18:19,590 Speaker 10: The joint hearings of the House Select Committee to Investigate 312 00:18:19,630 --> 00:18:24,351 Speaker 10: Covert Arms Transaction with Iran and the Senate Select Committee 313 00:18:24,390 --> 00:18:28,190 Speaker 10: on Secret Military Assistance to Iran and the Nicaraguan Opposition 314 00:18:29,191 --> 00:18:30,151 Speaker 10: will come to order. 315 00:18:30,551 --> 00:18:33,630 Speaker 4: The first witness would be retired Major General Richard Seacord, 316 00:18:34,071 --> 00:18:36,711 Speaker 4: who had overseen logistics for both the Contra war and 317 00:18:36,751 --> 00:18:38,430 Speaker 4: the Iran weapons program. 318 00:18:38,431 --> 00:18:40,750 Speaker 8: A key figure who has not been heard from before, 319 00:18:41,311 --> 00:18:43,910 Speaker 8: began to tell the committees of his own involvement in 320 00:18:43,991 --> 00:18:47,230 Speaker 8: sending arms to Iran and in helping the countries in 321 00:18:47,271 --> 00:18:48,150 Speaker 8: Central Americas. 322 00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:51,590 Speaker 4: Seacord did not demand immunity in exchange for his testimony. 323 00:18:52,791 --> 00:18:54,950 Speaker 4: He insisted that his involvement was that of a private 324 00:18:54,991 --> 00:18:58,510 Speaker 4: citizen and a businessman. He told the committee about how 325 00:18:58,551 --> 00:19:01,190 Speaker 4: his operation had worked and said he thought he was 326 00:19:01,311 --> 00:19:02,911 Speaker 4: just carrying out the president's policy. 327 00:19:03,191 --> 00:19:07,231 Speaker 16: The president has certain rights in the foreign policy area. 328 00:19:07,271 --> 00:19:12,511 Speaker 16: I never saw myself as being foreign policy operative. 329 00:19:13,951 --> 00:19:15,510 Speaker 12: You saw nothing wrong with this operation. 330 00:19:15,751 --> 00:19:17,271 Speaker 16: I did not see anything wrong with it. 331 00:19:17,311 --> 00:19:20,951 Speaker 4: Then, Seacord seemed sensitive to suggestions that he had only 332 00:19:20,951 --> 00:19:23,031 Speaker 4: gotten involved in ron Contra to make money. 333 00:19:23,311 --> 00:19:29,591 Speaker 16: There was no intention of profiteerian. I know that some 334 00:19:29,630 --> 00:19:31,870 Speaker 16: people were tossing this word around right now, and I 335 00:19:31,911 --> 00:19:32,431 Speaker 16: resent it. 336 00:19:33,110 --> 00:19:35,870 Speaker 3: If Seacord wasn't doing all this for profit, why wouldn't 337 00:19:35,911 --> 00:19:38,231 Speaker 3: he turnover records of his Swiss bank accounts. 338 00:19:38,311 --> 00:19:40,551 Speaker 16: I relied on the advice of my accounsel. Let's get 339 00:19:40,551 --> 00:19:41,231 Speaker 16: off the subject. 340 00:19:42,711 --> 00:19:43,830 Speaker 17: You're making the rulings. 341 00:19:44,311 --> 00:19:46,671 Speaker 16: No, sir, but I did not come here. 342 00:19:46,511 --> 00:19:47,110 Speaker 18: To be badger. 343 00:19:51,390 --> 00:19:54,231 Speaker 4: Seacord's testimony set the tone for the rest of the hearings. 344 00:19:54,991 --> 00:19:56,711 Speaker 4: Bud McFarland testified next. 345 00:19:56,991 --> 00:20:01,630 Speaker 19: Our witness this morning is mister Robert Carl McFarlane, the 346 00:20:01,791 --> 00:20:04,551 Speaker 19: former National Security Advisor to the President. 347 00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:08,230 Speaker 4: When McFarland was asked about Oliver North's destruction of documents, 348 00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:11,711 Speaker 4: the term shredding party was introduced into the national lexicon. 349 00:20:12,390 --> 00:20:16,791 Speaker 17: Colonel North tell you when the car that there was 350 00:20:16,991 --> 00:20:20,350 Speaker 17: going to be a shredding party that weekend. 351 00:20:21,231 --> 00:20:27,391 Speaker 1: Well, just that there had to be one, the attorney. 352 00:20:27,431 --> 00:20:30,190 Speaker 4: By the end of May nineteen eighty seven, the Iran 353 00:20:30,271 --> 00:20:34,190 Speaker 4: contry hearings were becoming a national obsession. This is a 354 00:20:34,191 --> 00:20:36,791 Speaker 4: song from a late night Cinemax show called This Week 355 00:20:36,911 --> 00:20:40,031 Speaker 4: Indoors Document. 356 00:20:40,751 --> 00:20:41,630 Speaker 13: Peoples Have Not. 357 00:20:43,390 --> 00:20:46,991 Speaker 4: As the hearings continued, the witnesses just kept getting more exciting. 358 00:20:47,870 --> 00:20:51,670 Speaker 4: About a month then America met Oliver North's personal secretary, 359 00:20:52,031 --> 00:20:52,631 Speaker 4: Fawn Hall. 360 00:20:52,751 --> 00:20:54,671 Speaker 8: She is twenty seven years old. She went to high 361 00:20:54,711 --> 00:20:57,390 Speaker 8: school in Virginia and then on to finishing school and 362 00:20:57,471 --> 00:20:58,751 Speaker 8: of course in modeling. 363 00:20:59,191 --> 00:21:02,670 Speaker 4: Hall is blonde and striking. As it turned out, she 364 00:21:02,751 --> 00:21:03,551 Speaker 4: was a former model. 365 00:21:04,110 --> 00:21:07,311 Speaker 3: Fawn Hall's appearance on Capitol Hill was a media event. 366 00:21:07,671 --> 00:21:10,230 Speaker 3: She was surrounded by cameras and security men. 367 00:21:10,511 --> 00:21:12,791 Speaker 7: Paul read an opening statement, making as clear as she 368 00:21:12,830 --> 00:21:15,271 Speaker 7: could that despite her looks, she is not just a 369 00:21:15,311 --> 00:21:16,311 Speaker 7: pretty face. 370 00:21:16,551 --> 00:21:18,751 Speaker 17: And perform my duties in exemplary manner. 371 00:21:19,231 --> 00:21:20,151 Speaker 19: I can type. 372 00:21:20,431 --> 00:21:23,391 Speaker 7: That last, of course, a reference to congressional sex scandals 373 00:21:23,431 --> 00:21:26,630 Speaker 7: involving secretaries who admitted they could not type. 374 00:21:26,671 --> 00:21:29,190 Speaker 4: Hall's looks were not the only reason people were anticipating 375 00:21:29,191 --> 00:21:31,911 Speaker 4: her testimony. They also wanted to know about the so 376 00:21:31,991 --> 00:21:35,071 Speaker 4: called shredding party that she and North allegedly collaborated on 377 00:21:35,191 --> 00:21:36,551 Speaker 4: after the Iran scandal broke. 378 00:21:36,951 --> 00:21:40,830 Speaker 2: Fawn Hall told how she altered and shredded key documents 379 00:21:41,110 --> 00:21:43,951 Speaker 2: a secretary to Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North at the White. 380 00:21:43,791 --> 00:21:48,511 Speaker 20: House, and as he pulled documents from each dower and 381 00:21:48,551 --> 00:21:50,471 Speaker 20: placed on top of the shredder, I inserted them into 382 00:21:50,511 --> 00:21:50,991 Speaker 20: the shredder. 383 00:21:51,511 --> 00:21:54,630 Speaker 4: Hall also testified to sneaking documents out of North's office 384 00:21:54,711 --> 00:21:56,031 Speaker 4: by stuffing them in her clothes. 385 00:21:56,511 --> 00:22:00,311 Speaker 16: And then you proceeded to remove documents from your boots 386 00:22:00,350 --> 00:22:02,551 Speaker 16: and from other parts of your clothing. 387 00:22:02,671 --> 00:22:03,351 Speaker 17: Is that correct? 388 00:22:03,551 --> 00:22:04,071 Speaker 11: That's correct? 389 00:22:04,150 --> 00:22:08,151 Speaker 4: Her more than anything. Fawn Hall's testimony was about defending 390 00:22:08,191 --> 00:22:12,430 Speaker 4: Oliver North. He portrayed the colonel as a patriot, a 391 00:22:12,511 --> 00:22:15,350 Speaker 4: hard working idealist whose only goal was to protect the 392 00:22:15,511 --> 00:22:20,551 Speaker 4: United States. According to Hall, everything North did, including the 393 00:22:20,551 --> 00:22:24,111 Speaker 4: destruction of documents, was done in the name of American interests. 394 00:22:24,830 --> 00:22:25,351 Speaker 17: And did you. 395 00:22:26,830 --> 00:22:29,791 Speaker 13: Surmise that this was a way of trying to cover 396 00:22:29,951 --> 00:22:33,071 Speaker 13: up something in conjunction with the Iran initiative or the 397 00:22:33,071 --> 00:22:33,871 Speaker 13: Contra initiative. 398 00:22:34,590 --> 00:22:36,231 Speaker 11: I do not use the word cover up. I would 399 00:22:36,311 --> 00:22:37,151 Speaker 11: use the word protect. 400 00:22:40,150 --> 00:22:42,630 Speaker 4: Vawn Hall wasn't the only witness to go to bat 401 00:22:42,630 --> 00:22:45,551 Speaker 4: for North. One of the Contra leaders flew in to 402 00:22:45,630 --> 00:22:48,430 Speaker 4: testify as well. And even though most of what he 403 00:22:48,471 --> 00:22:52,191 Speaker 4: had to say implicated North in Contra activities, what stuck 404 00:22:52,231 --> 00:22:54,670 Speaker 4: out was the ardor with which he defended North's character 405 00:22:54,830 --> 00:22:56,991 Speaker 4: and dedication to the anti communist cause. 406 00:22:57,350 --> 00:23:00,511 Speaker 17: I have and still have high respect for Colonel North. 407 00:23:01,071 --> 00:23:03,191 Speaker 17: But there was a group saying that they were going 408 00:23:03,231 --> 00:23:07,191 Speaker 17: to erect a monument for Colonel North once that Mikaraua 409 00:23:07,231 --> 00:23:07,870 Speaker 17: was liberated. 410 00:23:08,431 --> 00:23:10,551 Speaker 9: Would it be possible to make a brief quote statement, 411 00:23:10,590 --> 00:23:12,471 Speaker 9: And I will ask before I read it. It's a 412 00:23:12,511 --> 00:23:13,311 Speaker 9: poem that. 413 00:23:13,630 --> 00:23:17,951 Speaker 4: Then North assistant Robert Owen ended his closing statement by 414 00:23:17,951 --> 00:23:19,151 Speaker 4: reading a poem. 415 00:23:18,951 --> 00:23:21,590 Speaker 9: Ali, your enemies are more clever and more treacherous than ours. 416 00:23:21,911 --> 00:23:24,031 Speaker 9: Yet you have given all you had to give. We 417 00:23:24,110 --> 00:23:26,830 Speaker 9: have so very little to give you in return. Yet 418 00:23:26,830 --> 00:23:29,190 Speaker 9: we want you to know that in our hearts and 419 00:23:29,271 --> 00:23:33,470 Speaker 9: our prayers, you're with us daily. You're giving our children 420 00:23:33,551 --> 00:23:36,311 Speaker 9: a chance to live as free individuals. And for these 421 00:23:36,350 --> 00:23:38,791 Speaker 9: things we say thank you, Oli North. And I can 422 00:23:38,830 --> 00:23:41,031 Speaker 9: only add that I love Oli North like a brother, 423 00:23:41,630 --> 00:23:43,351 Speaker 9: and I want to thank the committee. 424 00:23:42,951 --> 00:23:45,750 Speaker 4: For all this fanfare around Oliver North, who had been 425 00:23:45,751 --> 00:23:49,430 Speaker 4: refusing to testify, built anticipation for the moment when the 426 00:23:49,471 --> 00:23:52,511 Speaker 4: man himself would finally appear before the committee and give 427 00:23:52,590 --> 00:23:53,630 Speaker 4: his side of the story. 428 00:23:53,751 --> 00:23:57,311 Speaker 3: Oliver North, after months of delaying and stonewalling, finally goes 429 00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:58,471 Speaker 3: before Congress tomorrow. 430 00:23:58,551 --> 00:24:01,271 Speaker 15: Ifty nine percent of those surveyed thank North will lie 431 00:24:01,390 --> 00:24:05,350 Speaker 15: to Congressional committees investigating the scandal when he begins testifying Tuesday. 432 00:24:05,751 --> 00:24:09,391 Speaker 4: The summer of Iran Contra war on North had everyone's 433 00:24:09,431 --> 00:24:10,391 Speaker 4: attention a lot. 434 00:24:10,431 --> 00:24:13,151 Speaker 6: In the history of Congress have so many lawmakers been 435 00:24:13,271 --> 00:24:15,910 Speaker 6: so interested in what our lieutenant colonel in the Marine 436 00:24:15,951 --> 00:24:19,271 Speaker 6: Corps has to say, well, the swashbuckling marine who once 437 00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:20,951 Speaker 6: declared without complaint that. 438 00:24:20,951 --> 00:24:23,590 Speaker 3: He was ready to be the pall guy d day 439 00:24:23,711 --> 00:24:24,271 Speaker 3: is at hand. 440 00:24:30,350 --> 00:24:32,071 Speaker 10: The hurrying will please come to order. 441 00:24:32,431 --> 00:24:35,751 Speaker 4: On the morning of July seventh, nineteen eighty seven, Oliver 442 00:24:35,870 --> 00:24:38,910 Speaker 4: North sat before the Congressional Committee waiting for his testimony 443 00:24:38,911 --> 00:24:42,670 Speaker 4: to begin. He wore his marine uniform, proudly displaying the 444 00:24:42,711 --> 00:24:45,951 Speaker 4: ribbons and medals he had earned in Vietnam, including two 445 00:24:45,951 --> 00:24:49,791 Speaker 4: purple hearts and a silver Star North Saltan Pepper hare 446 00:24:49,911 --> 00:24:52,710 Speaker 4: was neatly parted, and he sat straight up with his 447 00:24:52,830 --> 00:24:53,511 Speaker 4: jaw squared. 448 00:24:53,870 --> 00:24:55,151 Speaker 20: Colonel Law, please rise. 449 00:24:55,511 --> 00:25:00,271 Speaker 4: He looked young and almost indecently handsome. Here's Pam Nawton again. 450 00:25:00,511 --> 00:25:04,431 Speaker 11: When he took the oa with all the cameras started snapping, 451 00:25:04,471 --> 00:25:07,191 Speaker 11: as like a whole flock of birds of descended upon 452 00:25:07,271 --> 00:25:09,751 Speaker 11: the room. 453 00:25:10,390 --> 00:25:15,110 Speaker 10: Do you solemnly where that in the testimony you're about 454 00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:18,991 Speaker 10: to give will be the proof the whole pooth and nothing. 455 00:25:19,110 --> 00:25:23,311 Speaker 4: Remember, North's testimony was being shown live on television, and 456 00:25:23,390 --> 00:25:26,031 Speaker 4: Noughton believes that the camera angles affected the way he 457 00:25:26,110 --> 00:25:26,671 Speaker 4: was perceived. 458 00:25:27,271 --> 00:25:32,110 Speaker 11: They had placed a third camera on the floor so 459 00:25:32,191 --> 00:25:36,671 Speaker 11: that you could sort of see him sitting over the camera, 460 00:25:37,311 --> 00:25:40,151 Speaker 11: and it made him much larger than he was in person. 461 00:25:40,390 --> 00:25:45,470 Speaker 11: He's a rather slight man, but on TV, because of 462 00:25:45,511 --> 00:25:48,711 Speaker 11: the angle of the camera, he looked, you know, heroic 463 00:25:48,830 --> 00:25:50,670 Speaker 11: and huge and strong. 464 00:25:51,110 --> 00:25:54,471 Speaker 4: John Neilds was first up to question North, and North 465 00:25:54,511 --> 00:25:57,430 Speaker 4: did not waste any time telegraphing his attitude about what 466 00:25:57,511 --> 00:25:57,991 Speaker 4: was going on. 467 00:25:58,791 --> 00:26:03,471 Speaker 21: Colonel North, you were involved in two operations of this 468 00:26:03,590 --> 00:26:06,670 Speaker 21: government of great significance to the people of this country. 469 00:26:06,791 --> 00:26:07,350 Speaker 9: Is that correct? 470 00:26:08,671 --> 00:26:14,510 Speaker 21: At least two, yes, sir, And these operations were carried 471 00:26:14,551 --> 00:26:15,031 Speaker 21: out in. 472 00:26:15,071 --> 00:26:17,710 Speaker 14: Secret, we hoped so. 473 00:26:19,271 --> 00:26:21,791 Speaker 4: Neilds began with a line of questioning about why North 474 00:26:21,830 --> 00:26:24,351 Speaker 4: had felt it was proper to keep his activities secret 475 00:26:24,511 --> 00:26:28,390 Speaker 4: and to destroy evidence after the fact. North's response was 476 00:26:28,390 --> 00:26:31,311 Speaker 4: that he couldn't risk the possibility of America's adversaries getting 477 00:26:31,311 --> 00:26:36,031 Speaker 4: their hands on classified information. Neilds pressed him, But it. 478 00:26:35,991 --> 00:26:38,710 Speaker 21: Was designed to be kept a secret from the American people. 479 00:26:39,951 --> 00:26:44,630 Speaker 20: I think what is important, mister neild says, that we 480 00:26:44,671 --> 00:26:47,391 Speaker 20: somehow arrive at some kind of an understanding right here 481 00:26:47,431 --> 00:26:50,990 Speaker 20: and now as to what a covert operation is. I mean, 482 00:26:51,031 --> 00:26:52,951 Speaker 20: if we could find a way to insulate with a 483 00:26:52,991 --> 00:26:56,870 Speaker 20: bubble over these hearings that are being broadcast in Moscow 484 00:26:58,991 --> 00:27:02,031 Speaker 20: and talk about covert operations to the American people without 485 00:27:02,071 --> 00:27:04,751 Speaker 20: it getting into the hands of our adversaries. I'm sure 486 00:27:04,751 --> 00:27:05,431 Speaker 20: we would do that. 487 00:27:06,071 --> 00:27:08,630 Speaker 4: Neilds was trying to make an argument that in retrospect 488 00:27:08,751 --> 00:27:10,511 Speaker 4: he feels like he didn't quite get a in the 489 00:27:10,551 --> 00:27:11,191 Speaker 4: heat of the moment. 490 00:27:12,390 --> 00:27:16,390 Speaker 5: What the reason this was covert was not because we 491 00:27:16,390 --> 00:27:18,751 Speaker 5: were afraid our enemies would find out about it, was 492 00:27:18,751 --> 00:27:20,751 Speaker 5: we're afraid of the American people were going to find 493 00:27:20,791 --> 00:27:24,710 Speaker 5: out about it. Lots of it was unlawful, and that 494 00:27:24,870 --> 00:27:28,951 Speaker 5: he's going to wrap himself in God country and flag 495 00:27:30,271 --> 00:27:32,991 Speaker 5: as a justification for telling lies about stuff. 496 00:27:33,031 --> 00:27:37,670 Speaker 4: The contrast between North and Neilds was almost cartoonish. North 497 00:27:37,751 --> 00:27:40,350 Speaker 4: looked like g I. Joe Well. Neilds was more like 498 00:27:40,350 --> 00:27:44,271 Speaker 4: a pencil necked, long haired graduate student, and though North 499 00:27:44,311 --> 00:27:46,390 Speaker 4: went out of his way to punctuate his comments with 500 00:27:46,431 --> 00:27:50,751 Speaker 4: polite formalities, the mutual hostility between the two men was obvious. 501 00:27:51,870 --> 00:27:55,350 Speaker 4: It didn't help that North's lawyer, Brendan Sullivan, was regularly 502 00:27:55,390 --> 00:27:57,431 Speaker 4: interrupting neils and raising objections. 503 00:27:57,630 --> 00:27:59,711 Speaker 21: Objection, how many times do we have to have the 504 00:27:59,791 --> 00:28:01,470 Speaker 21: question answer, asked mister chairman. 505 00:28:01,630 --> 00:28:04,350 Speaker 4: At one point, North and Sullivan seemed to be mocking 506 00:28:04,431 --> 00:28:08,991 Speaker 4: Neils from their table. Neilds was frustrated, Well. 507 00:28:08,791 --> 00:28:09,950 Speaker 15: What is your question, council? 508 00:28:15,551 --> 00:28:16,910 Speaker 21: Have you forgotten the question? 509 00:28:16,991 --> 00:28:19,151 Speaker 19: All I have? And I have to make objections? 510 00:28:19,191 --> 00:28:20,511 Speaker 22: So you ask it again? 511 00:28:20,551 --> 00:28:23,950 Speaker 21: And you did, and it was overruled, and the question stands. 512 00:28:23,991 --> 00:28:26,671 Speaker 21: I'd like the witness to answer it if he remembers. 513 00:28:26,231 --> 00:28:28,590 Speaker 20: It, could we He obviously doesn't remember it. 514 00:28:28,590 --> 00:28:29,791 Speaker 13: He just asked you to repeat it. 515 00:28:29,830 --> 00:28:32,751 Speaker 21: May yeah you did, he did not, Sir, do you 516 00:28:32,830 --> 00:28:33,751 Speaker 21: remember the question? 517 00:28:39,631 --> 00:28:42,591 Speaker 20: My memory has been shredded, if you would be so 518 00:28:42,711 --> 00:28:43,951 Speaker 20: kind as to repeat the question. 519 00:28:44,831 --> 00:28:48,551 Speaker 4: Pam Norton, the congressional investigator working under Neild's, was taken 520 00:28:48,551 --> 00:28:49,791 Speaker 4: aback by North's demeanor. 521 00:28:50,471 --> 00:28:54,151 Speaker 11: I remember after about an hour or so, John Yild said, well, 522 00:28:54,151 --> 00:28:55,871 Speaker 11: we're going to take a break now, but when we 523 00:28:55,911 --> 00:28:58,190 Speaker 11: come back, I'm going to ask you about X Y Z, 524 00:28:58,591 --> 00:29:01,271 Speaker 11: and North said something the effective, Oh, I can hardly wait. 525 00:29:01,751 --> 00:29:04,270 Speaker 21: When we get back, I am going to ask you 526 00:29:04,311 --> 00:29:07,871 Speaker 21: some questions relating to those transactions. 527 00:29:07,951 --> 00:29:09,351 Speaker 20: That's a cliffhanger of an ending. 528 00:29:10,791 --> 00:29:13,431 Speaker 4: When the committee took a short break, notting and some 529 00:29:13,511 --> 00:29:16,231 Speaker 4: of our colleagues whispered to each other about North's performance. 530 00:29:16,951 --> 00:29:20,631 Speaker 11: We were saying to ourselves, behind the dice, boy, he's 531 00:29:20,671 --> 00:29:22,271 Speaker 11: really coming off like a jerk. 532 00:29:22,711 --> 00:29:25,871 Speaker 4: But then an ABC News reporter named Britt Hume checked 533 00:29:25,871 --> 00:29:28,311 Speaker 4: in with the committee lawyers and set them straight. 534 00:29:28,711 --> 00:29:31,071 Speaker 11: You know, we said, what do you think, and he goes, 535 00:29:31,951 --> 00:29:34,791 Speaker 11: I think he's a jerk, he said, but he's coming 536 00:29:34,831 --> 00:29:38,671 Speaker 11: off great on TV. We're getting flooded with calls. People 537 00:29:38,711 --> 00:29:39,551 Speaker 11: love him. 538 00:29:40,111 --> 00:29:42,751 Speaker 4: At the same time, committee members were also getting a 539 00:29:42,791 --> 00:29:45,111 Speaker 4: sense of how well North was playing with the folks 540 00:29:45,151 --> 00:29:45,791 Speaker 4: watching at home. 541 00:29:46,311 --> 00:29:49,151 Speaker 11: The members went back to their offices and were finding 542 00:29:49,191 --> 00:29:51,951 Speaker 11: that their switchboards were getting flooded with calls of people 543 00:29:51,951 --> 00:29:55,431 Speaker 11: who loved this handsome Lieutenant Kernel. 544 00:29:55,511 --> 00:29:59,470 Speaker 3: With all of his medals, all of the North seems 545 00:29:59,511 --> 00:30:01,871 Speaker 3: to have much of the nation in the palm of 546 00:30:01,911 --> 00:30:02,431 Speaker 3: his hand. 547 00:30:02,711 --> 00:30:05,671 Speaker 4: Over the course of his six days of testimony, North 548 00:30:05,751 --> 00:30:07,351 Speaker 4: developed a true fan base. 549 00:30:08,951 --> 00:30:12,551 Speaker 23: Of those surveyed North as a patriot and hero, forty 550 00:30:12,591 --> 00:30:16,191 Speaker 23: eight percent believe North is being harassed by the congressional panels, 551 00:30:16,591 --> 00:30:20,631 Speaker 23: and twenty eight percent say they would enthusiastically support North 552 00:30:20,911 --> 00:30:22,791 Speaker 23: if he ran for public office. 553 00:30:23,151 --> 00:30:25,951 Speaker 4: Journalists were happy to embrace the public affection for North, 554 00:30:26,391 --> 00:30:28,671 Speaker 4: evidently relieved to have a real leading man in the 555 00:30:28,671 --> 00:30:32,190 Speaker 4: Iran Contra crisis. The media took to calling him by 556 00:30:32,191 --> 00:30:37,031 Speaker 4: his nickname Ali, and before long everyone was talking about 557 00:30:37,111 --> 00:30:38,391 Speaker 4: Ali Mania. 558 00:30:38,071 --> 00:30:41,231 Speaker 13: Movies, lectures, Millingham dollar, book contracts. 559 00:30:41,511 --> 00:30:44,710 Speaker 7: The Washington Post ran a lengthy analysis of Colonel North's face. 560 00:30:44,831 --> 00:30:48,431 Speaker 4: The three major news networks canceled regularly scheduled programming to 561 00:30:48,471 --> 00:30:52,391 Speaker 4: show north testimony. Gavel to Gavel, a bar maid near Boston, 562 00:30:52,471 --> 00:30:54,631 Speaker 4: had expected to dislike Colonel North. 563 00:30:54,791 --> 00:30:58,231 Speaker 22: After watching the testimony, I began to dislike the committee 564 00:30:58,271 --> 00:30:59,111 Speaker 22: that was questioning him. 565 00:30:59,111 --> 00:31:02,031 Speaker 18: I felt though they were conducting a witch hunt. 566 00:31:02,311 --> 00:31:04,031 Speaker 11: His brush is in that uniform, the. 567 00:31:03,991 --> 00:31:06,551 Speaker 6: Real hero, and I'm with you one hundred percent, And 568 00:31:06,591 --> 00:31:09,111 Speaker 6: I'm Glady of the American mine. 569 00:31:08,751 --> 00:31:09,871 Speaker 20: And I'm proud of it. 570 00:31:11,271 --> 00:31:16,511 Speaker 4: By the third day of North's testimony, thousands of telegrams 571 00:31:16,511 --> 00:31:18,671 Speaker 4: have been sent to the White House, very few of 572 00:31:18,711 --> 00:31:22,551 Speaker 4: them critical. Flowers for North arrived daily to the Senate 573 00:31:22,591 --> 00:31:23,190 Speaker 4: Office building. 574 00:31:23,351 --> 00:31:25,951 Speaker 5: Oliver North has become the hottest tickets. 575 00:31:25,711 --> 00:31:27,591 Speaker 9: In town or Oliver North's t shirts. 576 00:31:28,071 --> 00:31:29,831 Speaker 17: There is talk of an Oliver North doll. 577 00:31:30,391 --> 00:31:34,431 Speaker 4: Barber's offered Ali North style haircuts Oli for President merch 578 00:31:34,471 --> 00:31:35,710 Speaker 4: sprang up across the country. 579 00:31:35,951 --> 00:31:40,151 Speaker 22: Ali Berger served up with shredded lettuce, shredded cheese, and 580 00:31:40,271 --> 00:31:42,271 Speaker 22: of course topped with an American flag. 581 00:31:42,591 --> 00:31:44,271 Speaker 13: Let's place it lovely more Haitian. 582 00:31:44,591 --> 00:31:46,631 Speaker 19: The man's become an instant celebrity. 583 00:31:46,791 --> 00:31:48,591 Speaker 8: You think of another country where that had happened. 584 00:31:53,231 --> 00:31:56,111 Speaker 4: John Nields, the long haired lawyer for the House Democrats, 585 00:31:56,391 --> 00:31:59,311 Speaker 4: remembers North's popularity rising at his expense. 586 00:31:59,791 --> 00:32:03,190 Speaker 5: I found out that there were a significant portion of 587 00:32:03,231 --> 00:32:07,791 Speaker 5: the world that thought Ali North was a cool guy, 588 00:32:08,031 --> 00:32:09,431 Speaker 5: and that I wasn't a cool guy. 589 00:32:09,791 --> 00:32:13,311 Speaker 4: But Neil's got the appeal and he understood the dynamic. 590 00:32:13,591 --> 00:32:17,470 Speaker 5: This was Vietnam right. I don't know what it is now, 591 00:32:17,631 --> 00:32:21,631 Speaker 5: maybe it's immigration or something, but the left right thing 592 00:32:22,071 --> 00:32:26,951 Speaker 5: was Vietnam, and he was playing to the people who 593 00:32:26,991 --> 00:32:33,551 Speaker 5: felt dissed, their patriotism had been disrespected after Vietnam, and 594 00:32:33,591 --> 00:32:35,911 Speaker 5: that the country had abandoned them in the middle of 595 00:32:35,951 --> 00:32:39,231 Speaker 5: a war, and who left them to die and come 596 00:32:39,231 --> 00:32:44,791 Speaker 5: home as anything other than heroes. And I understand that 597 00:32:45,031 --> 00:32:47,111 Speaker 5: very well. I mean, I thought the Vietnam War was 598 00:32:47,151 --> 00:32:52,391 Speaker 5: a big, big mistake, and so if he was trying 599 00:32:52,431 --> 00:32:57,311 Speaker 5: to pitch me as one of those people. It would 600 00:32:57,351 --> 00:32:57,911 Speaker 5: be truthful. 601 00:32:58,711 --> 00:33:01,470 Speaker 4: Pam Norton says, the deluge of calls and letters had 602 00:33:01,511 --> 00:33:04,591 Speaker 4: an immediate effect on the committee member's line of questioning. 603 00:33:05,231 --> 00:33:11,311 Speaker 11: And that's when they basically stopped asking, you know, questions, 604 00:33:11,351 --> 00:33:13,471 Speaker 11: just the natural fear of a member. Whenever you put 605 00:33:13,471 --> 00:33:16,190 Speaker 11: a question in front of them, the member would say, well, 606 00:33:16,231 --> 00:33:18,391 Speaker 11: what's he going to say? Well, I don't know what 607 00:33:18,431 --> 00:33:20,431 Speaker 11: he's going to say. That's why it's an investigation. And 608 00:33:20,511 --> 00:33:23,231 Speaker 11: they wouldn't do it, not with the witness who had 609 00:33:23,271 --> 00:33:26,551 Speaker 11: that much public powerful sway. 610 00:33:26,711 --> 00:33:29,791 Speaker 4: At that point, the softballs the North was getting from 611 00:33:29,791 --> 00:33:32,551 Speaker 4: the committee members stood in stark contrast to the grilling 612 00:33:32,591 --> 00:33:33,911 Speaker 4: he received from Neils. 613 00:33:34,191 --> 00:33:37,351 Speaker 5: That's sort of the end of his questioning. I asked 614 00:33:37,431 --> 00:33:39,671 Speaker 5: him about lying to Congress. 615 00:33:40,191 --> 00:33:41,271 Speaker 4: North was defiant. 616 00:33:41,431 --> 00:33:43,431 Speaker 20: I think we can abbreviate this in hopes that we 617 00:33:43,511 --> 00:33:45,510 Speaker 20: can move on so that I can finish this week. 618 00:33:46,311 --> 00:33:50,071 Speaker 5: But almost like proud of himself, I will tell you 619 00:33:50,191 --> 00:33:53,831 Speaker 5: right now, Council, and all the members here gathered. 620 00:33:53,671 --> 00:33:56,311 Speaker 20: And all the members here gathered that. 621 00:33:56,471 --> 00:33:59,911 Speaker 5: I misled the CONGRESSSS I. 622 00:33:59,991 --> 00:34:01,031 Speaker 16: Missed at that meeting. 623 00:34:01,151 --> 00:34:04,271 Speaker 21: At that meeting face to face, face to face. 624 00:34:04,471 --> 00:34:07,791 Speaker 5: You made false statements to them about your activities in 625 00:34:07,871 --> 00:34:13,871 Speaker 5: support of the contries I did. I mean, it's who 626 00:34:13,871 --> 00:34:17,230 Speaker 5: he is and he was telling the truth then, so 627 00:34:17,631 --> 00:34:19,591 Speaker 5: that's again credit for that's good. 628 00:34:22,431 --> 00:34:25,471 Speaker 4: One thing that was interesting about Oliver North's testimony was that, 629 00:34:25,511 --> 00:34:28,671 Speaker 4: as unapologetic as he was, he didn't exactly take the 630 00:34:28,710 --> 00:34:31,911 Speaker 4: blame for the scandal. In fact, he made it clear 631 00:34:32,151 --> 00:34:34,750 Speaker 4: over and over again that even though he stood by 632 00:34:34,791 --> 00:34:38,071 Speaker 4: everything he had done, he'd also just been following orders 633 00:34:38,071 --> 00:34:38,871 Speaker 4: like a good marine. 634 00:34:39,511 --> 00:34:42,710 Speaker 20: I was simply a staff member with a demonstrated ability 635 00:34:42,791 --> 00:34:45,950 Speaker 20: to get the job done. I reported directly to mister 636 00:34:46,031 --> 00:34:50,751 Speaker 20: McFarland and to Admiral Poindexter. My authority to act always flowed, 637 00:34:50,831 --> 00:34:54,871 Speaker 20: I believe from my superiors. My military training inculcated in 638 00:34:54,991 --> 00:34:58,071 Speaker 20: me a strong belief in the chain of command, and 639 00:34:58,151 --> 00:35:00,871 Speaker 20: so far as I can recall, I always acted on 640 00:35:01,031 --> 00:35:05,631 Speaker 20: major matters with specific approval, after informing my superiors of 641 00:35:05,671 --> 00:35:08,911 Speaker 20: the facts as I knew them, the risks and the 642 00:35:08,911 --> 00:35:09,991 Speaker 20: potential benefits. 643 00:35:11,351 --> 00:35:14,511 Speaker 4: This testimony fed into the big question coursing through the 644 00:35:14,511 --> 00:35:19,591 Speaker 4: Iran Contra hearings. How much had the President known specifically 645 00:35:19,911 --> 00:35:22,350 Speaker 4: what had he known about the diversion of funds from 646 00:35:22,391 --> 00:35:26,351 Speaker 4: the Iran operation to the contrace. The person best position 647 00:35:26,471 --> 00:35:30,511 Speaker 4: to answer this question was John Poindexter, Oliver North's boss 648 00:35:30,671 --> 00:35:32,831 Speaker 4: and the National Security advisor at the time of the 649 00:35:32,911 --> 00:35:34,391 Speaker 4: nineteen eighty six arm shipments. 650 00:35:34,471 --> 00:35:38,271 Speaker 24: Sword says he had sent Poindexter five memos seeking President 651 00:35:38,270 --> 00:35:41,750 Speaker 24: Reagan's approval for the diversion. Nord says he doesn't know 652 00:35:41,791 --> 00:35:45,391 Speaker 24: if they reached the President. So committee members will ask Poindexter. 653 00:35:51,671 --> 00:35:52,430 Speaker 4: We'll be right back. 654 00:35:59,591 --> 00:36:02,391 Speaker 19: The committees meet this morning to hear the testimony of 655 00:36:02,710 --> 00:36:07,910 Speaker 19: Admiral John Poindexter. Admiral would you please rise to take 656 00:36:07,951 --> 00:36:08,351 Speaker 19: the oath? 657 00:36:08,911 --> 00:36:12,631 Speaker 4: John Poindexter, who had resigned as Reagan's National Security advisor 658 00:36:12,671 --> 00:36:16,591 Speaker 4: over Iran contra, took the stand on July fifteenth, right 659 00:36:16,631 --> 00:36:20,830 Speaker 4: after North. Poindexter was more subdued than North, but came 660 00:36:20,871 --> 00:36:24,910 Speaker 4: across as similarly unrepentant, stating flatly that he had been 661 00:36:24,911 --> 00:36:27,431 Speaker 4: hoping to withhold information from Congress. 662 00:36:28,311 --> 00:36:32,591 Speaker 18: It wasn't withholding it from the American people. It was 663 00:36:32,631 --> 00:36:35,230 Speaker 18: that there were a lot of opponents in the Congress 664 00:36:36,230 --> 00:36:43,511 Speaker 18: that would have not agreed with our interpretation of the 665 00:36:43,511 --> 00:36:47,511 Speaker 18: Bowld amendment, they wouldn't have agreed to the Iranian project, 666 00:36:47,991 --> 00:36:50,190 Speaker 18: and if it came out, it was going to be 667 00:36:50,270 --> 00:36:52,631 Speaker 18: a very hot political issue and it would be used 668 00:36:52,671 --> 00:36:54,631 Speaker 18: to pound on the president. 669 00:36:55,951 --> 00:36:58,751 Speaker 4: Then it came time for Poindexter to answer the million 670 00:36:58,791 --> 00:37:03,551 Speaker 4: dollar question. Taking intermittent puffs on his pipe, he explained 671 00:37:03,551 --> 00:37:06,750 Speaker 4: that none of his superiors, including President Reagan, had been 672 00:37:06,791 --> 00:37:09,551 Speaker 4: aware of the diversion of Iran weapons profits to the Contras. 673 00:37:10,511 --> 00:37:14,071 Speaker 4: To drive the point home, Poindexter invoked Harry Truman's famous 674 00:37:14,111 --> 00:37:15,311 Speaker 4: line about accountability. 675 00:37:16,511 --> 00:37:18,910 Speaker 18: I think it's, you know, an important point here is 676 00:37:19,750 --> 00:37:23,071 Speaker 18: on this whole issue. You know, the buck stops here 677 00:37:23,111 --> 00:37:23,391 Speaker 18: with me. 678 00:37:24,270 --> 00:37:25,231 Speaker 5: I made the decision. 679 00:37:25,591 --> 00:37:27,350 Speaker 18: I felt that I had the authority to do it. 680 00:37:27,871 --> 00:37:30,830 Speaker 18: I was convinced that the President would in the end 681 00:37:31,750 --> 00:37:34,631 Speaker 18: think it was a good idea, but I did not 682 00:37:34,911 --> 00:37:37,031 Speaker 18: want him to be associated with the decision. 683 00:37:41,151 --> 00:37:44,231 Speaker 4: John Neilds told me he still thinks about Poindexter's answer, 684 00:37:44,991 --> 00:37:46,750 Speaker 4: and he still doesn't know what to make of it. 685 00:37:47,991 --> 00:37:51,270 Speaker 4: On the one hand, Poindexter was testifying plainly that he 686 00:37:51,311 --> 00:37:54,831 Speaker 4: did not tell Reagan about the diversion. On the other hand, 687 00:37:55,431 --> 00:37:57,430 Speaker 4: he was admitting that his goal had been to give 688 00:37:57,471 --> 00:37:58,751 Speaker 4: the president deniability. 689 00:37:59,311 --> 00:38:03,710 Speaker 5: He was telling them my role in life, according to 690 00:38:03,831 --> 00:38:08,870 Speaker 5: my lights, is to take the blame so that the 691 00:38:08,871 --> 00:38:12,911 Speaker 5: president doesn't have to And there could be two ways 692 00:38:12,951 --> 00:38:16,511 Speaker 5: of doing that. One not tell the president and not 693 00:38:16,671 --> 00:38:20,911 Speaker 5: tell the truth. Here, those are the two different ways. Well, 694 00:38:21,311 --> 00:38:23,551 Speaker 5: it goes without saying I have no idea whether he 695 00:38:23,591 --> 00:38:27,111 Speaker 5: told the truth or not. And I think that's what 696 00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:31,270 Speaker 5: everybody thought, what that they didn't know whether Poindexter told 697 00:38:31,311 --> 00:38:31,711 Speaker 5: the truth. 698 00:38:36,190 --> 00:38:40,471 Speaker 4: After Poindexter's testimony, the three news networks began rotating coverage 699 00:38:40,471 --> 00:38:44,870 Speaker 4: of the hearings and resumed their regularly scheduled programming. By 700 00:38:44,911 --> 00:38:48,031 Speaker 4: eliminating the possibility that Reagan would be personally linked to 701 00:38:48,071 --> 00:38:52,710 Speaker 4: the diversion, Poindexter had effectively closed the case and take 702 00:38:52,710 --> 00:38:54,231 Speaker 4: an impeachment off the table. 703 00:38:54,551 --> 00:38:55,990 Speaker 7: The scandal is largely over. 704 00:38:56,111 --> 00:38:59,031 Speaker 3: Some committee members say this is a suspense novel which 705 00:38:59,071 --> 00:39:01,710 Speaker 3: has lost a suspense. That may be one reason the 706 00:39:01,710 --> 00:39:04,071 Speaker 3: committee now hopes to wrap up its work a week 707 00:39:04,111 --> 00:39:06,631 Speaker 3: early by the end of July. 708 00:39:07,351 --> 00:39:10,551 Speaker 4: Pam Nawton remembers thinking about how differently all Over North 709 00:39:10,591 --> 00:39:15,750 Speaker 4: and John Poindexter had approached the issue of responsibility. Poindexter 710 00:39:15,791 --> 00:39:19,430 Speaker 4: had at least made a show of owning the diversion. North, 711 00:39:19,471 --> 00:39:21,631 Speaker 4: on the other hand, had emphasized his status as a 712 00:39:21,631 --> 00:39:24,671 Speaker 4: low level operative carrying out a mission handed to him 713 00:39:24,671 --> 00:39:25,351 Speaker 4: from on high. 714 00:39:25,911 --> 00:39:30,951 Speaker 11: To this day, I'm shocked because he is still viewed 715 00:39:32,391 --> 00:39:36,631 Speaker 11: in many segments of the right as this hero this 716 00:39:36,750 --> 00:39:39,671 Speaker 11: heroic guy. The truth of the matter is, he took 717 00:39:39,710 --> 00:39:43,431 Speaker 11: the Fifth Amendment. He only testified with the grant of 718 00:39:43,471 --> 00:39:47,470 Speaker 11: immunity with a deal. And if you listen to his testimony, 719 00:39:47,991 --> 00:39:52,631 Speaker 11: he pointed the finger upward. He said he believed the 720 00:39:52,671 --> 00:39:54,991 Speaker 11: President of the United States knew what he was doing. 721 00:39:56,831 --> 00:40:03,350 Speaker 11: He was a snitch essentially in common parlance. And it 722 00:40:03,391 --> 00:40:07,391 Speaker 11: was Poindexter, his boss, that took the bullet. It's Poindexter 723 00:40:07,471 --> 00:40:11,471 Speaker 11: who came in a regular street suit, not an admiral uniform, 724 00:40:12,311 --> 00:40:16,271 Speaker 11: and basically said, the buck stops here. I didn't discuss 725 00:40:16,311 --> 00:40:18,351 Speaker 11: it with the President. I take the bullet. 726 00:40:29,991 --> 00:40:32,870 Speaker 4: After the hearings ended, the Congressional Committee wrote up their 727 00:40:32,911 --> 00:40:35,751 Speaker 4: findings and published them that November in a six hundred 728 00:40:35,791 --> 00:40:36,871 Speaker 4: and ninety page report. 729 00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:41,190 Speaker 2: Good Morning, the Joint House and Senate committees which investigated 730 00:40:41,190 --> 00:40:44,551 Speaker 2: the Iran Contra affair today issue their majority report, a 731 00:40:44,631 --> 00:40:47,711 Speaker 2: six hundred and ninety page document that does not produce 732 00:40:47,791 --> 00:40:48,911 Speaker 2: a smoking god. 733 00:40:49,190 --> 00:40:51,950 Speaker 4: And the committee's conclusions were quite different than the Tower 734 00:40:51,951 --> 00:40:53,991 Speaker 4: Commission's report released earlier in the year. 735 00:40:54,431 --> 00:40:56,871 Speaker 6: It was, in the opinion of the majority who signed 736 00:40:56,871 --> 00:40:59,911 Speaker 6: this report the President who had set the tone allowing 737 00:40:59,951 --> 00:41:02,471 Speaker 6: a cabal of Zealotz to seize control. 738 00:41:02,871 --> 00:41:07,391 Speaker 19: The common ingredients in the Iran Contra affair were secrecy, deception, 739 00:41:08,431 --> 00:41:09,830 Speaker 19: and a disdain for law. 740 00:41:10,111 --> 00:41:12,631 Speaker 4: The report was particularly critical of the White House's and 741 00:41:12,831 --> 00:41:13,991 Speaker 4: runs around Congress. 742 00:41:14,111 --> 00:41:17,671 Speaker 10: They conducted a secret foreign policy and concealed it through 743 00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:22,911 Speaker 10: a concerted campaign of dishonesty and deception, and when the 744 00:41:22,991 --> 00:41:27,391 Speaker 10: affair began to unravel, they attempted to cover up their deeds. 745 00:41:27,631 --> 00:41:29,790 Speaker 4: But a group of eight Republicans who had served in 746 00:41:29,831 --> 00:41:32,471 Speaker 4: the committee refused to sign on to the verdict. 747 00:41:32,831 --> 00:41:36,190 Speaker 6: Included in the final report is a minority section which 748 00:41:36,190 --> 00:41:39,231 Speaker 6: accuses the committees of reaching hysterical conclusions. 749 00:41:39,431 --> 00:41:42,551 Speaker 7: It started out as a witch hunt, it proceeded as 750 00:41:42,591 --> 00:41:46,831 Speaker 7: a witch hunt, and the final report indicates that indeed 751 00:41:46,831 --> 00:41:47,750 Speaker 7: it was a witch. 752 00:41:47,591 --> 00:41:51,511 Speaker 4: Hunt led by a Wyoming Congressman named Dick Cheney. The 753 00:41:51,551 --> 00:41:55,071 Speaker 4: Republican dissenters published their own report, making the case not 754 00:41:55,111 --> 00:41:57,671 Speaker 4: only for Reagan's innocence, but for the innocence of his 755 00:41:57,831 --> 00:42:02,511 Speaker 4: entire administration. They said there was no systematic disrespect for 756 00:42:02,551 --> 00:42:06,230 Speaker 4: the rule of law, no grand conspiracy, and no administration 757 00:42:06,270 --> 00:42:10,671 Speaker 4: wide dishonesty or cover up. In their opinion, the majority's 758 00:42:10,671 --> 00:42:12,111 Speaker 4: conclusions were hysterical. 759 00:42:12,591 --> 00:42:15,071 Speaker 22: I think what the president was guildia was making an 760 00:42:15,111 --> 00:42:17,591 Speaker 22: unwise decisions, such as sending arms to Iran. But I 761 00:42:17,591 --> 00:42:19,631 Speaker 22: think he had the legal authority to do that. I 762 00:42:19,671 --> 00:42:22,591 Speaker 22: think he had the legal authority to withhold notification from Congress. 763 00:42:22,631 --> 00:42:24,310 Speaker 22: I don't think those decisions were always why. 764 00:42:24,511 --> 00:42:27,230 Speaker 4: Cheney and the other seven Republicans argued that the real 765 00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:29,911 Speaker 4: fault for Iran contra lay with the congressman who had 766 00:42:29,951 --> 00:42:33,591 Speaker 4: pushed for the restrictions on contra funding. It was a 767 00:42:33,710 --> 00:42:37,551 Speaker 4: robust defense of executive authority won that Dick Cheney would 768 00:42:37,631 --> 00:42:45,071 Speaker 4: later echo as Vice President. By the time Congress wrapped 769 00:42:45,111 --> 00:42:48,671 Speaker 4: up its work, there was one politician besides Ronald Reagan 770 00:42:48,750 --> 00:42:53,271 Speaker 4: who remained unscathed. George H. W. Bush had been director 771 00:42:53,311 --> 00:42:56,910 Speaker 4: of the CIA before becoming Vice president. He had set 772 00:42:56,951 --> 00:42:59,551 Speaker 4: in on many high level meetings involving national security during 773 00:42:59,551 --> 00:43:03,350 Speaker 4: the Reagan years, but The committee report was inconclusive on 774 00:43:03,351 --> 00:43:05,231 Speaker 4: what Bush knew about Iran Contra. 775 00:43:05,791 --> 00:43:08,870 Speaker 6: The committees concluded that there is no evidence that Vice 776 00:43:08,871 --> 00:43:11,311 Speaker 6: President Bush knew about the diversion. 777 00:43:11,710 --> 00:43:14,271 Speaker 4: In the fall of nineteen eighty seven, when the report 778 00:43:14,391 --> 00:43:17,711 Speaker 4: was released, Bush was on to bigger and better things. 779 00:43:18,230 --> 00:43:23,230 Speaker 4: I am here today to announce my candidacy for President 780 00:43:23,631 --> 00:43:29,190 Speaker 4: of the United States. When asked about Iran Contra in interviews, 781 00:43:29,831 --> 00:43:33,511 Speaker 4: Bush insisted that he had been out of the loop. However, 782 00:43:33,591 --> 00:43:36,310 Speaker 4: Bush told The Washington Post if he were ever to 783 00:43:36,351 --> 00:43:39,671 Speaker 4: find himself in Ronald Reagan's position, he would expect his 784 00:43:39,750 --> 00:43:43,311 Speaker 4: staff to give him the facts. I wouldn't want somebody, 785 00:43:43,351 --> 00:43:54,631 Speaker 4: he said, to protect me from myself. On the next 786 00:43:54,671 --> 00:43:58,790 Speaker 4: episode of Fiasco, Iran Contra goes to Hollywood. 787 00:43:58,591 --> 00:44:00,271 Speaker 1: Ali, you can't lie to your own people. 788 00:44:00,951 --> 00:44:01,671 Speaker 12: It's not a lie. 789 00:44:01,871 --> 00:44:05,310 Speaker 14: It's a Cocord operation. Hostage lives depend on what we 790 00:44:05,391 --> 00:44:06,031 Speaker 14: do here Eric. 791 00:44:07,431 --> 00:44:10,351 Speaker 4: For a list of books, articles, and documentaries used in 792 00:44:10,391 --> 00:44:13,911 Speaker 4: our research, follow the link in the show notes. Fiasco 793 00:44:14,031 --> 00:44:16,790 Speaker 4: is a production of Prolog Projects, and it's distributed by 794 00:44:16,831 --> 00:44:22,111 Speaker 4: Pushkin Industries. Shows produced by Andrew Parsons, madelin kaplan Ula, Kulpa, 795 00:44:22,270 --> 00:44:26,591 Speaker 4: and me Leon Mayfock. Our editor was Camilla Hammer. Our 796 00:44:26,591 --> 00:44:30,911 Speaker 4: researcher was Francis Carr. Additional archival research from Caitlin Nicholas. 797 00:44:31,911 --> 00:44:34,710 Speaker 4: Our music is by Nick Silvester. Our theme song is 798 00:44:34,710 --> 00:44:38,071 Speaker 4: by Spatial Relations. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at 799 00:44:38,111 --> 00:44:42,271 Speaker 4: Chips and y Audio, mixed by Rob Buyers, Michael Rayphield 800 00:44:42,311 --> 00:44:46,311 Speaker 4: and Johnny Vince Evans. Copyright council provided by Peter Yassi 801 00:44:46,471 --> 00:44:50,911 Speaker 4: at Yassi Butler Plc. Thanks to Lee Hamilton, Amy Freed, 802 00:44:51,151 --> 00:44:54,750 Speaker 4: Brendan Sullivan, Melissa Kaplan, Harold Coe, as well as Sam 803 00:44:54,750 --> 00:44:58,911 Speaker 4: gram Felsen, Sireya Shackley and Katya Kumkova. Special thanks to 804 00:44:58,991 --> 00:45:17,471 Speaker 4: Luminary and thank you for listening. Binge the entire season 805 00:45:17,591 --> 00:45:21,711 Speaker 4: of Fiasco Iran Contra ad free by subscribing to Pushkin Plus. 806 00:45:22,391 --> 00:45:25,190 Speaker 4: Sign up on the Fiasco show page on Apple Podcasts 807 00:45:25,391 --> 00:45:29,671 Speaker 4: or at pushkin dot Fm slash Plus. Pushkin Plus subscribers 808 00:45:29,710 --> 00:45:33,750 Speaker 4: can access ad free episodes, full audiobooks, exclusive binges, and 809 00:45:33,791 --> 00:45:36,111 Speaker 4: bonus content for all Pushkin podcasts