WEBVTT - The David Herbert Collection 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:06.400 I have to say that when I learned that this 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:12.760 was one person, I was a little flabbergasted. I really was, 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:18.000 because these artists, yes, they're all around the same period, 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:22.120 but their styles are very, very different, and he did 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:26.200 a good job. I mean, there are other fakes in 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:29.040 art history, and as I used to like to joke 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:31.720 when I gave talks, the best fakes are still hanging 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:34.760 on people's walls. You know, they don't even know or 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:41.880 suspect that they're fakes. By two thousand two, an unlikely 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:45.839 trio of con artists had grown rich from their forgery 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:52.520 Schemepra Rosalez had worked her charms and unearthed a dazzling 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:56.920 collection of abstract Expressionist paintings destined for Ann Friedman to 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:02.400 acquire for the Knodler Gallery, and convinced herself that the 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:06.319 works were genuine. She was desperate to squeeze every dollar 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:10.399 of profit she could from the mysterious works works that 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:15.320 had no provenance. Anne had bought the paintings for unthinkably 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:19.480 low prices and sold them at sky high markups. The 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:22.640 profit margin was so high that the Knodler had come 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:26.280 to rely on the mr X Junior collection for its 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:33.360 very survival. Meanwhile, the fraudsters were living the American dream. 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:38.320 Carlos Bergantinos, the ideas man, patient, Kuon the artist, and 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:43.480 Glepara Rosalez, the resourceful salesperson, had executed a scheme that 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:49.400 was paying enormous dividends. Along with rising profits, however, came 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:53.560 increased risk. By two thousand two, Jack and Fan Levy 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:57.320 had spent upwards a four point three million dollars acquiring 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:01.680 master works from Knodler. The biggest prize was a two 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:07.680 million dollar Jackson pollock, identified simply as untitled nine. It 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:11.400 had a greenish cast and measured twelve by eighteen inches. 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:15.160 It was small for a pollock, but impressive all the same. 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:20.400 Before the sale could be finalized, however, Jack Levy insisted 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.639 that the pollock be vetted by Eye Far the International 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:28.480 Foundation for Art Research. Up to this point, none of 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:32.240 the works brought in by Glafira Rosalee had been subjected 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:38.920 to forensic scrutiny, and Friedman was so convinced of the 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:43.240 works authenticity that she readily agreed to the Leavi's terms. 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:49.119 The work was already owned by Jack Leavy, so Noodler 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:53.560 was not quote the client or the person who submitted 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.960 the work to eye FAR. There's a lot of misunderstanding 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:00.640 in the field about that. I am share and flesher. 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:05.160 I'm executive director of the International Foundation for Art Research, 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:11.359 which is much better known under the acronym FAR. I 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:15.920 FAR as experts provide a thorough and impartial analysis of 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:20.360 visual works of art through profnance research and forensic testing. 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.720 I FAR is also well known for their pioneering work 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:28.200 and art theft, having created the first database of stolen art. 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.480 I spoke with Sharon in her corner office overlooking the 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.840 New York Public Library. I FAR, now a fifty year 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:39.760 old institution, works with researchers and forensics experts to help 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:43.960 authenticate artwork submitted from all over the world. Jack Levy 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:46.760 purchased his pollock from the Knodler with no inkling that 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.640 it might be fake. Signing up for an eye FAR 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:53.040 analysis was a mere legal nicety, or so he thought. 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:56.600 Despite the many pollocks that came through I FAR. Sharon 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.160 too had no doubts that the Levy pollock would prove 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:03.880 to be right maas initial assumption was, of course, this 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.520 would be great. We're going to find a new pollock, 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.400 because it would never entered my mind that a work 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:15.080 that wouldn't be good would have been sold through the 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:19.479 Ndler galery. Sharon was unaware of the deal Jack Levy 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.480 had struck with Ann Friedman and Nodler, but to her, 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:25.440 having the sale of the Pollock be contingent upon I 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:30.240 far determination of authenticity made a lot of sense. My 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:35.440 logic said to me that someone who purchases a seventh 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:40.599 figure work from a reputable gallery, if the work turns 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:44.720 out not to be what that person hopes and expects 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.359 it to be, that they will turn right around to 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.760 the gallery and try to get their money back. Usually, 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:53.240 when a buyer asks a gallery for their money back, 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.240 the gallery writes them a check instantly as a matter 0:04:56.279 --> 0:05:00.640 of course. Reputations, after all, are at stake. But what 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:04.479 if the gallery insists the painting Israel and refuses to 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.679 give the buyer their money back. Acting on her gut, 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:11.240 Sharon took an extra measure to protect herself and I 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:17.080 far I insisted that the node Le gallery sign an agreement, 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:22.960 saying they would not sue because there would be nothing 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:27.039 protecting us. Because if we didn't come up with the 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:30.479 positive review I assumed we would. I could just see 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:34.360 exactly what would happen. It would be returned, He'd get 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:37.360 the money back, and then the gallery would say, well, 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:41.680 how can you prove that it's not you're defaming our name, 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:45.120 our character or whatever. It was just a vision I had, 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.640 and so I insisted that they signed something, and they did. 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:53.839 I Far began working on the Leavey Pollock using the 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:58.160 same methods they would apply to any painting submitted for authenticity. 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:01.760 There are some steps that are consistent for every painting, 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.880 and then each project takes on a slight life of 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:09.839 its own. So we are very committed in general to 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:13.920 what I like to think of as a three pronged process, 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:19.800 which is scholarly research, connoisseurship, the expert eyes. We had 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:22.960 actually quite a few specialists who examined this work, in 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:27.240 some cases more than once, and the physical properties of 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:34.320 the work, which sometimes includes a detailed lab examination forensic examination. 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:39.359 Right away, the scholarly research aspect of I Far work 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:43.120 turned up red flags for starters. The paintings lack of 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:47.960 provenance was a problem for Sharon. We were sent the 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:53.280 skimpiest possible provenance information that one can be sent for 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.800 a work that is of a major artist, and of 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:02.520 seven figure value essentially enough. And I actually personally called 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:06.920 Anne I knew an and cultured to give them the 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:10.520 benefit of the doubt, saying, we can be more helpful 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:15.200 on this project if you supply more information to us. 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:20.480 And at that time she actually said, you're researching the provenance, 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:26.800 as I said, of course, we always researched the provenance. 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:29.200 What did you think? And she said, I thought you 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:32.520 would just bring experts together to look at the work 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:34.680 and say whether it's good. I said, we're doing that 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:43.360 as well, But of course we research the provenance and 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:47.240 was in a predicament I far as work was thorough 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:51.240 and consistent. And because Jack Levy had officially submitted the 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:54.600 work to I Far not Nodler, there was nothing Anne 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:57.400 could do to finesse her way out of the problem. 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:01.800 Sitting on Sharon's desk, a deeper I Far dug into 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.640 the history of the Levy Pollock the more nervous and 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:09.320 seemed to become for Sharon. The backstory just wasn't adding up. 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.320 It was just simply said and relayed to us. It 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:18.560 was acquired through Osario. This was it. The Osorio story 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:21.880 conjured up by gap Rozalice had now made its way 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:26.560 through Ann Friedman to Sharon and I Far. Alfonso Osario 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:30.480 had died, but his longtime partner ted Dragon was still alive. 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:35.280 So I contacted Dragon simply to find out, after he 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:39.720 lived with Osario from many years, could he provide information? 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.360 Is he familiar with this work, is he aware of 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:48.360 Osorio ever having dealt with it? And what was Ted 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:52.240 Dragon's reaction? He had never seen the work. He didn't 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:56.800 think there was any connection whatsoever to Osario because had 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:02.560 there been, given his in amit relationship with Osario over 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:06.920 so many years and particularly at that period, that he 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:11.120 would have known if there was a connection. And we 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:14.280 did other research as well, and we could find nothing 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:22.000 to substantiate the Osorio connection. The Osorio provenance was crumbling 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:25.440 under scrutiny from I Far. The whole notion of Osorio 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.960 serving as a middleman between dealers and artists went nowhere. 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:34.320 But what about the painting itself. This particular work was 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.680 canvas mountain on masonite, which is a type of fiberboard. 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:42.640 Paula did have canvases mounted on masonite. In this case 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:47.439 it was mounted on the rough side of the masonite. 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:50.680 Most of the ones of his that were mounted were 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:54.600 mounted on the smooth side of the masonite, but he 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:59.320 also painted directly on masonite. I can't tell you that 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:05.640 one of the specialists to examine this work immediately was upset. 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.560 They felt that it was mounted on that mason I 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:13.600 just so that we couldn't see the back of the canvas. 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:15.960 That's why they're doing it, you know, to hide this. 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:20.480 I put here on the cover of a detail of 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:24.240 the painting. Sharon was showing me the cover of one 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:29.440 of I Far's publications from two thousand sixteen, titled Hindsight 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:33.800 Lessons from the Noler Rosalee Affair. On the cover are 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:38.320 two rectangular photos of Jackson Pollock's signatures on paintings. Red 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:41.400 arrows indicate that one is an actual Pollock, the other 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:44.280 a fake. The photos are zoomed in to show the 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:48.240 detail of the signature itself and the canvas. Here's the 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:53.560 signature Jackson Pollock that's signed on that painting, and this 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:58.200 is the bottom you can see. Here, here's the canvas, 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.760 and here's the mason I when Pollock did it, first 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:03.480 of all, he did it on the other side of 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.840 the masonite, on the smooth side, and he put some 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:10.480 sizing on it, and over the fifty year period from 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:15.400 nine to two thousand, the masonite with his sizing had 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:21.559 aged and colored completely differently than the masonite in this work. 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.320 How interesting. Wow, So you really had there was maybe 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:27.320 a first red flag. For sure. It was more than 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.000 the first red flag. We already had some red flags, 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:34.359 as I said earlier, not just the provenance any connection 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:38.920 whatsoever to Pollock. Are their photo archives that show this 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:42.720 work in the background. Are their letters that mentioned a 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:46.400 work that fits this description? We did all of that. 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:52.880 These were the kind of telltale details that led I 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:59.040 far to issue its shocking opinion. We said, we cannot 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:03.600 accept the work as a work by Jackson Pollock. It 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.559 is the same as saying I'm writing a catalog raison 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:09.959 A and I'm not including your work in the catalog 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:15.520 raisin A. We couched our words because we couldn't hammer 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:21.320 that nail in the coffin. Absolutely, Anne was pretty ticked, 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:25.720 was she not. Did she not speak publicly and disparage 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:29.360 and she certainly spoke privately and disparaged us two people, 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:33.640 because it got back to me all the time years 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:35.880 later when she felt free to talk about the Leavy 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:39.080 Pollock and I far As rejection of it, and would 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.120 blithely say, quote, there was a recent history of bad 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:46.240 feeling between I Far and Knoedler unquote, Hi far As 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:50.160 experts were biased and implied that was why I Far 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.920 had nixed the painting, where I felt she impugned our 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:57.520 integrity by saying there was a history of bad feelings, 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.920 therefore she wanted to dismiss what we said. First of all, 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:04.080 there was no history of bad feelings that I knew of, 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:07.520 and certainly not during my tenure, and I had already 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:11.240 been here a few years. But more importantly, to assert 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:16.320 that even if there were bad feelings, it might change 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:21.320 our report. I was incredulous that anyone would make such 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:26.800 a statement, because we only exist because of our good 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:30.880 name and our reputation for integrity. We're not going to 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.760 assulliate and I'm not going to let anyone else sully it. 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:42.200 With Far's final judgment on the Levee Pollic in two 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:47.800 thousand three, and took the painting back very discreetly. She 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.440 returned the two million dollars to Jack Levy contractually, she 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:55.480 had no choice. Shortly after the sale, was refunded and 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:59.000 called a Canadian collector, David Mervish, with news that she 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:03.439 had a wonderful deal for him. Anne was absolutely sure. 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.560 She said that I Far had been wrong and that 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:10.839 the painting was legitimate to back up her claim, and 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:15.080 suggested that she herself by a one third interest in 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:19.640 Untitled nineteen forty nine. The gallery would buy a partial share, 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:23.280 as would Mervish. Certainly they would sell the painting at 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:28.640 some point for a fortune. Mervish agreed, and Untitled nineteen 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:31.960 forty nine was duly put aside for that future day. 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:37.840 It's I Far status kept quiet, but the damage was done. 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.760 As Anne later said in Vanity Fair, quote, it was 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:45.960 a backfire because Ted Dragon went crazy. Osorio would never 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:49.840 have hidden anything from me unquote. That cast a paul 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:53.720 over the painting and the whole story of Osorio as 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:58.200 middleman for mister and Missus X. Anne asked Glypha, could 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.240 mister and Missus X have been wrong had they or 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:06.520 their son confused Osorio with someone else? Glafira promised to 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:09.360 address the issue and then came back with a change 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:17.840 in the story more in a minute, As it turned out, 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:22.240 and was right. Osorio had been in the mix, but 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:26.760 only marginally, Sofia said. The dealer who had handled most 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:30.160 of those paintings for Mr and Mrs X was actually 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.960 an art handler named David Herbert. She was so sorry 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:39.320 for any confusion. This is one of those iffy moments 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.600 in the story where you raised out one but two 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:46.720 eyebrows and think, wait a minute, how were you not 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:54.320 suspicious when the entire backstory suddenly shifted. That's author Maria Kannakova. Again. 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:59.440 It shows a few things the part of the con artists, obviously, 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:03.800 it shows rate ingenuity and once again listening because Anne 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:08.040 inadvertently told them what to say, because she said, these 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:11.080 are the holes, these are the things that people are 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:15.680 suspicious of. And she even had suggestions, right, maybe was 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:19.280 it this? Was it that? So she threw out things 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:23.200 that they could then use. Once again, the con artists here, 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:26.280 your job is to listen and to figure out, Okay, 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:30.160 what do I need to change? What are they reacting to, 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:35.440 what's working, what's not working? David Herbert working wonderful. Let's 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:38.040 keep him in and try to figure out, you know how, 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:40.680 how we can change the story to the elements that 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:44.080 aren't working, to fill in the parts of the narrative 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:49.480 that are causing us problems. Now, the other element, of course, 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:51.720 is if you're an how in the world do you 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:55.680 not see this. One of the things that I've argued 0:16:56.000 --> 0:17:00.360 over and over again is that it's impossible to judge 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:03.840 from the outside, because from the outside your objective. From 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:06.000 the inside, once you're already in the middle of it, 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:10.320 once you're already emotionally involved, your objectivity is gone. It's 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:14.320 really difficult. It takes a very specific, strong person who 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.880 probably would not have gotten into the situation to begin with, 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:20.560 to be able to see clearly in the heat of 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:24.280 the moment, and most people just cannot do that. I 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:28.000 think that she was already so deep in the con 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.879 that it didn't strike her as weird. It just struck her. 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:34.960 As we're getting more information, it's on a need to 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:38.400 know basis, as I need to know more, they tell 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.080 me more. Whereas for us, when we're looking at this, 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:43.440 we're shaking our heads and thinking, wait, no, no, you're 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:47.160 not allowed to change the story. If you're and you're thinking, oh, okay, 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:57.120 that makes sense, great, wonderful. David Herbert, Now, the key 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:00.840 figure in the back story was a brilliant race He 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:04.080 was a real person whose modest life and times fit 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.240 the larger story a dealer many in the art world 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:12.560 had known. Almost certainly, Anne had heard about Herbert through 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:16.399 Haimi Andrade, since Herbert had been Andrada his best friend 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:21.960 for decades. Also convenient, David Herbert had died just seven 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:28.879 years prior. In his executor none other than Heimi Andrade. 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:34.000 Into Andrade's hands went all of Herbert's files upon his death. 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:39.000 Possibly those files contained bits that might embellish gafa's story 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.840 of mister and Mrs X. From what Anne now understood, 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:47.520 David Herbert had been more than a middleman between downtown 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:51.399 artists and Mr X, setting up sales and taking commissions. 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:55.560 Herbert had been Mr X's lover during long periods in 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:59.920 the nineteen fifties in New York. Once again, for Ann, 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:05.240 and the result was the opportunity to access newly discovered masterpieces. 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.320 One key link between David Herbert and the art world 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:15.080 he inhabited was the legendary dealer Sydney Janis. After a 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:18.399 humble start in the garment industry, Janis had made his 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:22.800 fortune by inventing a two pocket men's Oxford shirt. His 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:26.879 true passion however, was contemporary art that led him to 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:30.719 become a dealer, eventually representing many of the mid century greats. 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:35.040 In eight he opened a fifth floor gallery on Street, 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:39.440 down the hall from another emerging and important dealer, Betty Parsons. 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.679 Much to parsons indignation, by nineteen fifty two, some of 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.359 her top artists had left her stable and moved down 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.919 the hall to Sydney Janis. She was more of an 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:54.119 artist than a dealer. She couldn't quite sell any of 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:58.320 the works of the artist. That was the problem. That's 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.639 Carol Janis, one of Sydney Janis's two sons, who worked 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.520 in the gallery with his father for years. One of 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.040 the artists who came down the hall from Betty Parsons 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:11.720 was Jackson Pollock. Carol's father liked Pollock's work. He was 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:15.159 also sympathetic to the struggles that came with being an artist. 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:21.120 He bought a little painting from him during that year four. 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:25.760 He told me that he bought it because Pollock was 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:29.439 so poor that he just felt that he should buy something. 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:35.399 To Betty Parsons lifelong fury. Pollock would move to the 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:39.720 Sydney Janis Gallery for the remainder of his career. Mark 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:43.359 Rothko came down the hole too. After issuing a modest plea, 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:46.719 he told Sydney Janie that he had to earn seventy 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:50.440 dollars a year to support his family. Could the Janis 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:54.160 Gallery promise him that much? Janis thought it was possible. 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:59.600 In the first year he made fifteen fans and wow, 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:05.000 he that was big money in nineteen fifty two, over 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:11.399 thousand dollars. Today, most downtown artists survived on a lot less, 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:15.159 some so strapped that they sold paintings out of the 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:18.840 back door, as it were, privately, without the involvement of 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:23.240 their dealer. That was how David Herbert played into the story. 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:29.280 Herbert was no figment of Ann Friedman's imagination. He was 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.119 an art insider who, at different times in the nineteen 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:36.680 fifties worked for both Betty Parsons and Carol's father, Sidney Janice. 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:42.320 Herbert brought clients to various artists studios, introduced those clients 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:45.760 to the artists, and handled the occasional back door selling 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:49.120 of paintings to help them scrape by in tough times. 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.760 He was about five nine. I think he had a 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:57.280 little mustache. He worked with Betty for a couple of years. 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:02.080 I suppose partly as ann handler and partly to talk 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:06.320 the clients coming in. He was not very successful with Penny, 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:11.040 but Betty came over and somehow take my dad into 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:13.399 giving him a job, which he did give him. He 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:17.520 was also gregarious and liked to talk to the clients. 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:23.000 Everybody started to do was to take clients to artists 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:27.520 studios and tried to sell them works out of the studios. 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:32.520 At first, Sydney Jannis didn't mind. It was something he 0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:35.679 was doing and as long as he was doing it 0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:38.840 with any of the hundreds of artists in New York 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:46.359 who were not with the gallery and didn't say anything. Unfortunately, 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:49.840 David Herbert's eagerness to help these far flung artists and 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:52.880 perhaps to profit from them, led to a bad end. 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:58.439 Carol recalls Herbert handling money for one very important artist 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:01.719 who was in fact a Jenna artist, Willem de Kooning. 0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:06.560 Gave to then and they asked him for an advance 0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:09.720 for his studio. He had gave him what he asked for, 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:13.600 fifty dollars, and then the next year he came and 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:17.320 he asked again for not a fifty and then that 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:19.920 was quite a lot in those days. They told him no, 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:24.200 he wouldn't lend into him. So that meant cooning at 0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:28.080 the start, selling out of his studio because he needed 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:31.760 the money to pay for the gallery. Yeah, and the 0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:36.520 handle that directly because he loved the coon, and the 0:23:36.760 --> 0:23:39.440 ning loves the gallery. And now they were at as 0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:42.600 because he was selling out of his studio but not 0:23:42.760 --> 0:23:47.439 giving the gallery of commission, and David Herbert was in 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:49.840 the thick of it, paying the cooning for works the 0:23:49.880 --> 0:23:54.000 painter was selling for money he desperately needed. Herbert had 0:23:54.040 --> 0:23:58.040 to go. So one my dad found out about Mattie Well, 0:23:58.080 --> 0:24:03.679 he let him go of imediately. It was easy to 0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:07.080 imagine how Anne Friedman could have believed the story of 0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:10.760 a feckless art handler who bought and sold works on 0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:14.719 his own. By the nineteen seventies and eighties, almost everyone 0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:18.040 in the art world knew of David Herbert. He remained 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:21.800 a droll character from the same Demi mond As, Alfonso 0:24:21.840 --> 0:24:26.600 Asorio and Jim Andrade. Painter Bill Draper would give two 0:24:26.680 --> 0:24:29.879 day parties, as one dealer says, and Herbert would be 0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:33.399 there along with his dear friends him Andrade and Richard 0:24:33.400 --> 0:24:38.200 brown Baker. There too would be brook Aster, Mayor John Lindsay, 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:42.480 and art Maven Marian Javits. It was an indulgent and 0:24:42.720 --> 0:24:47.920 freer time. By then, Herbert had begun to struggle. He 0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:50.679 threw in with the distinguished dealer Richard Faken for a 0:24:50.720 --> 0:24:56.840 short lived venture no managerial skills at all. Fiken later grumbled. 0:24:57.840 --> 0:25:01.040 Despite his lack of funds, her Bert never lost his 0:25:01.119 --> 0:25:04.000 sense of humor. He would come into the Knoedler and 0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:07.320 pretend he was a collector. It calls a Knodler staffer. 0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:11.360 Herbert would say, I'm furious that Kndler has not delivered 0:25:11.440 --> 0:25:14.480 my art for three months. I've been calling. I've paid 0:25:14.480 --> 0:25:18.440 for it already unquote. He was funny, says the staffer. 0:25:19.800 --> 0:25:25.160 By the time David Herbert died, he'd become almost a destitute. 0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:28.960 He had a very hard last couple of years, recalls 0:25:29.000 --> 0:25:32.000 a friend from his gallery. He was basically living on 0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:37.199 friends and really had no retirement money. As long as 0:25:37.280 --> 0:25:40.480 David Herbert was alive, these paintings weren't going to come out, 0:25:40.720 --> 0:25:44.359 and Friedman said in vanity fair quote. The fear was 0:25:44.400 --> 0:25:46.880 that if the paintings came out, while Herbert was alive, 0:25:47.400 --> 0:25:50.600 Herbert might have been extremely upset and he might have 0:25:50.640 --> 0:25:53.639 revealed the identity of the owner. There's no question that 0:25:53.680 --> 0:25:56.399 the paintings would have been paid for with cash. Tax 0:25:56.520 --> 0:25:59.960 is not paid, assets not declared, and you can go 0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:06.280 to jail for that end quote. So sure was Anne 0:26:06.280 --> 0:26:09.560 about the newly modified back story that she even gave 0:26:09.600 --> 0:26:12.960 a new name to the paintings coming from Glypia Rosalis. 0:26:13.480 --> 0:26:17.800 The paintings, she said, now constituted the David Herbert collection 0:26:19.320 --> 0:26:23.159 once David Herbert passed away, and said, that's when Mr 0:26:23.440 --> 0:26:27.640 x Jr. Felt he could release these paintings. More than 0:26:27.760 --> 0:26:32.520 one Knodler staffer saw a victim in retrospect, him Andrade. 0:26:33.400 --> 0:26:36.720 Perhaps Andrade had told Anne stories of his old friend 0:26:36.800 --> 0:26:40.679 David Herbert. Maybe he had acknowledged that Herbert might have 0:26:40.760 --> 0:26:44.080 sold some of these paintings on the slide. Still, if 0:26:44.080 --> 0:26:46.960 he had colluded with Anne and Glyphia, where was the 0:26:47.040 --> 0:26:51.439 profit in it for him? Himie did not profit from it. 0:26:51.720 --> 0:26:54.119 He never got a commission, so there's nothing on him, 0:26:54.240 --> 0:26:57.760 says an ex Nodler staffer. He was horrified by all 0:26:57.800 --> 0:27:01.200 that happened. The staffer adds, I you're very sorry for him. 0:27:01.280 --> 0:27:04.920 He's a gentleman of the older kind. And now all 0:27:05.000 --> 0:27:09.199 and Ratty had was a ghostly cobweb department filled with 0:27:09.280 --> 0:27:13.240 South American art next door to the gallery he loved 0:27:13.320 --> 0:27:18.600 so much. As for David Herbert, he too seemed a victim, 0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:22.720 even if a posthumous one. It's very easy to put 0:27:22.760 --> 0:27:25.680 something on him, because he's not around to dispute it, 0:27:25.720 --> 0:27:29.239 said Herbert's friend from the gallery. What should have been 0:27:29.320 --> 0:27:32.920 early red flags at the Knoedler Gallery, those early deep 0:27:32.960 --> 0:27:36.640 and Corn drawings, that brilliant Rothko and now the returned 0:27:36.720 --> 0:27:42.200 Levy Pollock instead remained art world secrets. For now, none 0:27:42.240 --> 0:27:45.479 of them stirred any attention because sales of the works 0:27:45.520 --> 0:27:49.720 remained confidential. As it turned out, the Levy Pollock that 0:27:49.800 --> 0:27:53.080 I far had judged to be not a legitimate work 0:27:53.480 --> 0:27:56.800