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Speaker 1: What kind of a show you guys.

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Speaker 2: Putting on here today?

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Speaker 3: You're not interested in armed now? No, look, we're going

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Speaker 3: to do this thing. We're going to have a conversation.

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Speaker 4: Hey, film spotters, Josh here with Adam this weekend, the

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Speaker 4: definitive eighties high school comedy The Breakfast Club is back

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Speaker 4: in theaters for its fortieth anniversary. Fortieth anniversary, still influential, Adam,

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Speaker 4: I think we both got news about a new release,

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Speaker 4: an India release called Pools that I believe is playing

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Speaker 4: right about now at Music Box Theater. Check that for sure.

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Speaker 4: I know they had their premiere there not too long ago,

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Speaker 4: and they described it as being influenced at Chicago made

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Speaker 4: and set and being influenced by John Hughes comedies of

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Speaker 4: the eighties like The Breakfast Club.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, definitely a movie that.

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Speaker 4: Is still affecting films and filmmakers many few decades on here,

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Speaker 4: and we wanted to share with you.

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Speaker 5: Are safe could cow review? Now?

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Speaker 4: We did this back for The Breakfast Club's thirtieth anniverse,

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Speaker 4: which was in twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 2: That's right, and we're not just busting it out for

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Speaker 2: its fortieth. It's also timely because this weekend September seventh,

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Speaker 2: and on Wednesday, September tenth, commemorating its fortieth anniversary. There

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Speaker 2: are going to be special theatrical screenings around the country.

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Speaker 2: If I can find a link with more details about that,

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Speaker 2: we'll post it in the show notes. Wherever you're listening

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Speaker 2: to the podcast, you can try to find it there. Otherwise,

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Speaker 2: just google it, look for it around you. Hopefully it

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Speaker 2: will be playing near you, especially if you haven't seen

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Speaker 2: it in maybe thirty years or so, or maybe somehow

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Speaker 2: you've never seen The Breakfast Club at all, or maybe

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Speaker 2: you're now you're our age and you have kids who

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Speaker 2: are the age that maybe we were when you saw

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Speaker 2: the film, when we saw the film for the first time,

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Speaker 2: and they can actually experienced it for the first time

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Speaker 2: on the big screen. This is your opportunity to see it.

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Speaker 2: September seventh, September tenth.

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Speaker 4: Now we're pulling this review, as I said, from the

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Speaker 4: Film Spotting Archives, Adam, And if you want access to

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Speaker 4: these archives all the time, all you have to do

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Speaker 4: is join the Film Spotting Family. That's where you'll get

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Speaker 4: those reviews. You'll get top fives and more going back

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Speaker 4: to two thousand and five. So archive access just one

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Speaker 4: of the benefits you get as a member of the family,

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Speaker 4: and you can learn more about all of that at

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Speaker 4: film spottingfamily dot com. For now here, enjoy our Sacred

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Speaker 4: Cow review of The Breakfast Club.

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Speaker 6: What do you say we closed that door?

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Speaker 3: We can't have any kind of part of the burning

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Speaker 3: checking us out every few seconds. You know, the doors

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Speaker 3: is supposed to stay open, So why don't you just

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Speaker 3: shut up? As for other people in here, you know

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Speaker 3: you can come see.

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Speaker 7: I knew you had to be smart to be a wrestler.

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Speaker 3: The hell you do to judge anybody anyway? Really, you know, Benda,

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Speaker 3: you don't even count. I mean, if you disappear forever,

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Speaker 3: it wouldn't make any differences. Well, not even exist at

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Speaker 3: this school.

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Speaker 7: Well I'll just run right out and join the wrestling team.

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Speaker 6: Maybe the prep club too, student council.

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Speaker 3: They wouldn't take you.

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Speaker 7: I'm hurt.

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Speaker 4: Our Sacred Cow selection this time Adam is a movie

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Speaker 4: that's maybe not sacred to cinophiles in general, but it

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Speaker 4: certainly is to those of our generation. The Breakfast Club

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Speaker 4: John Hughes chamber piece about five high schoolers stuck together

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Speaker 4: for a Saturday of detention came out in nineteen eighty five, Yes,

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Speaker 4: thirty years ago. You and I were not quite yet

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Speaker 4: in our teens then, but I know I at least

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Speaker 4: was already fascinated by all things teenager. I'm guessing I

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Speaker 4: didn't actually see the movie until it came out on

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Speaker 4: video most likely, but at that point I did watch

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Speaker 4: it enough times that I could predict most of the

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Speaker 4: lines of dialogue during this revisit. Judging by your brief

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Speaker 4: review on Letterbox, your revisit was a blissful trip down

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Speaker 4: memory lane.

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Speaker 5: Five stars.

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Speaker 4: That's as high as it goes on letters Are you

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Speaker 4: aware of that were five stars?

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Speaker 5: Okay?

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Speaker 4: I'm guessing one reason for this lavish rating is because

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Speaker 4: you picked up on a secondary level of wisdom to

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Speaker 4: the movie when watching it now as an adult.

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Speaker 5: Oh, one of the things.

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Speaker 4: You noted in your review was the truthfulness of an

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Speaker 4: observation made by Allison the basket Case, played by Ali Sheety,

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Speaker 4: who contends that we all become our parents. So what

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Speaker 4: was it like to watch The Breakfast Club now, not

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Speaker 4: as a kid, but as a parent, And how do

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Speaker 4: you feel about Allison's other observation When you grow up

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Speaker 4: your heart dies, is your heart Dead, Adam, is that

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Speaker 4: five star rating just a shameless attempt to prove otherwise.

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Speaker 2: It might be you might be onto something that is

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Speaker 2: a little bit melodramatic. But I love that line, and

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Speaker 2: I'll get to why in a moment. First, though, I

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Speaker 2: do hope there's a little bit of magic in the air.

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Speaker 2: Did you catch that when this film opens and you

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Speaker 2: get that opening voiceover that the date is the exact

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Speaker 2: same date we are sitting here to record tonight.

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Speaker 1: By Mark hitting twenty fourth.

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Speaker 2: Wow, it's March twenty fourth, nineteen eighty four, that Saturday,

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Speaker 2: thirty one years ago. They shot it before it came out,

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Speaker 2: clearly eighty five, but it's exactly the night. So, like

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Speaker 2: I said, hopefully that'll bring something to this discussion, and

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Speaker 2: it is for me. Forget being able to predict certain lines.

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Speaker 2: This was a unique Sacred Cow experience. We've always seen

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Speaker 2: the movies first, that's what makes them Sacred Cows. We're

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Speaker 2: revisiting them, But in this case I could quote, and

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Speaker 2: to the annoyance of my wife, did quote eighty percent

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Speaker 2: of the movie as it was going on. I don't

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Speaker 2: know to get to your question that watching it as

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Speaker 2: a parent really came into play for me. My son

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Speaker 2: Holden just turned thirteen. He's a huge nerd. He would

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Speaker 2: be the Brian here and he would use that term

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Speaker 2: to describe himself and do it with pride. High school

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Speaker 2: is hard, but I'm fairly constantly worried about my kids already.

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Speaker 2: I'm a high dread kind of guy. More significant to

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Speaker 2: me was seeing it as an adult. When I'm not

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Speaker 2: the same age, or, as you noted, a little bit

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Speaker 2: younger than these kids. Maybe I can't directly relate to

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Speaker 2: their day to day problems. Besides having a different perspective,

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Speaker 2: I was also just more aware of it as a movie,

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Speaker 2: how it's constructed, and hopefully we'll get to that a

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Speaker 2: little bit as well. I think that line from Alison

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Speaker 2: Ali Sheety, though, is one of the keys to the

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Speaker 2: Breakfast Club in terms of why it holds up so

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Speaker 2: well thirty years later. It's not just that it was.

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Speaker 2: I think that I can recall anyway the first movie

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Speaker 2: to simultaneously establish these high school archetypes while deconstructing them.

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Speaker 2: It's how seriously John Hughes takes these kids' concerns and

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Speaker 2: how thoroughly he explores them amidst all of this comedy,

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Speaker 2: sometimes broad silly comedy, he goes to some really dark,

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Speaker 2: serious places and he does it as well. In Ferris

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Speaker 2: Buehler's Day Off. If you think about Cameron his daddy issues,

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Speaker 2: destroying the beloved Ferrari at the end of that movie.

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Speaker 2: I always found that tonal shift in Ferris Bueller a

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Speaker 2: little bit cumbersome, a little bit hard to overcome because

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Speaker 2: it's such a heavy moment. And then it's sort of like, Oh,

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Speaker 2: we're back to Ferris Bueller running around backyards, and we're

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Speaker 2: just supposed to forget everything Cameron's going to face and

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Speaker 2: everything he's been through. But Emilio Estevez's monologue here about

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Speaker 2: three quarters the way through this movie about what he

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Speaker 2: did to get intolration, Yeah, and why good, that's even

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Speaker 2: darker than anything with Cameron, that unbroken take that underscores

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Speaker 2: the weight of it. That character isn't just telling a story.

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Speaker 2: He seems to be channeling something deep from within Anthony

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Speaker 2: Michael Hall's breakdown as well. Hughes is trying, i think,

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Speaker 2: in succeeding at making us laugh, but he's clearly using

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Speaker 2: these characters and this setting to really wrestle with something

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Speaker 2: wrestling with whether you can overcome your nature, your upbringing,

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Speaker 2: or if you're doomed to become your parents, can you

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Speaker 2: stop your heart from dying? I think that for me,

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Speaker 2: Josh is what makes this movie so timeless and universal.

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Speaker 2: Almost everyone, but especially any junior high kid or high

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Speaker 2: school kid, no matter what generation, can relate to. That fear,

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Speaker 2: along with everything else in the movie, is dealing with

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Speaker 2: as far as establishing your identity, retaining your individuality while

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Speaker 2: being part of a group, trying to be accepted within

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Speaker 2: that group or culture. So yeah, this movie really did

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Speaker 2: hit me about the same way it hit me thirty

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Speaker 2: years ago, which is something I wasn't expecting because I

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Speaker 2: hadn't seen it since then. Maybe actually in high school,

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Speaker 2: I remember showing it to my now wife because she

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Speaker 2: had never seen it, but I was still of that

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Speaker 2: age I was in high school. It really did resonate

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Speaker 2: with me.

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Speaker 4: Was it just recently last week? I think with Cinderella

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Speaker 4: probably we talked about children's films for a younger age group,

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Speaker 4: how it's important to respect that audience's intelligence, and the

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Speaker 4: same thing happens for teen audiences, where the filmmakers will

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Speaker 4: often consider let's just give them the lowest common denominator.

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Speaker 4: The Breakfast Club does not do that. It's very interested

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Speaker 4: in these kids, not as archetypes, as stereotypes as ways

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Speaker 4: to get some funny jokes out. It's interested in their

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Speaker 4: stories and the universality of their experiences. The bullying thing

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Speaker 4: that you mentioned Andrew's monologue is an amazing sustained sequence,

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Speaker 4: especially when you think about in nineteen eighty five. Clearly

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Speaker 4: that was something that educators were aware of, but it

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Speaker 4: was nowhere near to the degree of attention it gets

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Speaker 4: today in terms of experts coming into our schools and

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Speaker 4: having sessions with kids about being proactive about keeping.

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Speaker 5: This at bay.

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Speaker 1: But the complexity of it too, why he does That's why.

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Speaker 4: I'm talking to emotional awareness of understanding here. Well before

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Speaker 4: this was a common thing that people were digging into

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Speaker 4: of what led to it and how this is an

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Speaker 4: The act was an expression of Andrew responding to how

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Speaker 4: his father treated him, and just the really haunting line

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Speaker 4: that Andrew says, how do you apologize for something like that?

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Speaker 3: There's no way. It's all because of me, my own man.

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Speaker 3: I fucking hate him. He's like this, It's like this

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Speaker 3: mindless machine that I can't even relate to anymore. Andrew,

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Speaker 3: You've got to be number one. I won't tolerate any

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Speaker 3: lousures in this family. Your intensity is for shit?

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Speaker 1: When when when.

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Speaker 3: Your son?

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Speaker 4: I mean, what movie would not only acknowledge that the

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Speaker 4: kid is thinking about his action, just move beyond the action.

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Speaker 4: Most teen movies that deal with bullying are centered around

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Speaker 4: the act of bullying itself. And here's something considering the

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Speaker 4: aftermath and considering the sorrow on the part of the offender.

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Speaker 4: And we could talk about the way that the movie

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Speaker 4: gives almost every character in this film a chance to

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Speaker 4: consider who they are in that deep of a manner.

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Speaker 4: So I think this absolutely stands up. It did for

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Speaker 4: me as well. I didn't go quite as crazy for

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Speaker 4: it as you did. And maybe we can talk about.

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Speaker 1: Why I probably did. I backed off a little bit

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Speaker 1: or younger either, did you?

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Speaker 4: Oh all, I remember when I watched it is just thinking, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I loved it, and just thinking like, is this what

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Speaker 4: high school's like?

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Speaker 5: Wow?

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Speaker 4: You know it was kind of this because we were

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Speaker 4: both younger than the people in the story. You're kind

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Speaker 4: of looking at it as a primer with it. And

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Speaker 4: so that's why the dialogue would stick in my head.

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Speaker 4: It was almost like you're packing these things so that

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Speaker 4: you'll be ready when you get to high school. That's

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Speaker 4: what I remember taking it in as at that point.

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Speaker 4: But here, you know, it does just speak across generations

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Speaker 4: and across decades.

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Speaker 5: I would put it up there.

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Speaker 4: A couple of titles that work similarly in the teen

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Speaker 4: genre would be Splendor in the Grass decades earlier in

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Speaker 4: terms of just getting at that idea of you know,

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Speaker 4: puppy love much more focusing on sexuality, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: For sure, sexuality and sexual attention and.

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Speaker 4: That aspect of being a teenager. And then something more

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Speaker 4: recent Scott Pilgrim Versus the World. There is another movie

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Speaker 4: that I came out of and just thinking, man that

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Speaker 4: gets it, that manages to get at the heart of

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Speaker 4: what it was like to be a teenager. And these movies,

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Speaker 4: all three of those movies, they don't just get the

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Speaker 4: look right. They don't just get the dialogue right. I

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Speaker 4: might argue that The Breakfast Club does not get the

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Speaker 4: dialogue right, and a lot of situations in terms of

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Speaker 4: the phrases they use. But what these movies I'll do

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Speaker 4: is they embody the experience in such a way and

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Speaker 4: this film. Hughes does it primarily for the attention that

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Speaker 4: he gives to the characters and also the cast. I mean,

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Speaker 4: this thing would not work as well as it does

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Speaker 4: without this phenomenal cast, and we can maybe talk about

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Speaker 4: who we think rises to the top. I finally came

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Speaker 4: up with an answer after wrestling with that a little bit.

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Speaker 1: My son wrestling. Is that a Q maybe a big

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Speaker 1: Estavez fan?

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Speaker 5: No, I went another direction.

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Speaker 2: Well, I didn't really think about it in those terms,

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Speaker 2: but I did discover that I did appreciate these performances

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Speaker 2: beyond what I remember as a kid liking the movie

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Speaker 2: overall and not really judging those performances. Here, being a

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Speaker 2: little more objective or distance from it, I was able

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Speaker 2: to see them as what they are. I think they

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Speaker 2: are all really good, really strong performances. But I want

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Speaker 2: to go back to the opening of the film, because

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Speaker 2: all of these kids, this is the first thing I

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Speaker 2: said out loud as Sarah and I were watching the movie.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, all these kids are being driven to school

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Speaker 2: by their parents, and yet they seem to me like

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Speaker 2: maybe juniors or seniors. Maybe Brian is the youngest. He

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Speaker 2: might be fifteen, a sophomore but otherwise they all seem

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Speaker 2: like they're of driving age, but they're being dropped off

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Speaker 2: by their parents.

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Speaker 1: That seems so weird.

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Speaker 2: And of course then I thought about it for a

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Speaker 2: minute as that sequence played out, and I realized, it's.

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Speaker 1: All about that parent, it really is.

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Speaker 2: And you see what he is doing, what he accomplishes

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Speaker 2: there is he immediately gives us a window into their psyches.

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Speaker 2: We see where they're coming from, and for example, we

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Speaker 2: understand the disconnect between Claire and her dad, the academic

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Speaker 2: pressure and demands of Brian's mom, the athletic pressure and

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Speaker 2: demands of Andrew's dad, that blatant disregard of Allison's parent.

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Speaker 2: I don't even think we know who it is. They

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Speaker 2: just don't even acknowledge her and drive away. And of

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Speaker 2: course the loner bender who hilariously walks right in front

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Speaker 2: of the car without stopping. He's the one who comes

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Speaker 2: in by himself, no parent who cares about him. So

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Speaker 2: the whole movie set up right there, all those dynamics

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Speaker 2: that we need to see, and before we discover them

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Speaker 2: to be a certain type, we get to see them

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Speaker 2: as people and see that baggage that they're carrying with them.

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Speaker 2: Before they begin any of these interactions or these confrontations

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Speaker 2: with each other. It of course sets up the whole

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Speaker 2: trajectory of the story, as I said, but it also

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Speaker 2: gives us some insight that the other characters don't have.

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Speaker 2: I think it actually establishes a neat layer of subtext

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Speaker 2: to a lot of those interactions and confrontations that we

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Speaker 2: wouldn't otherwise be aware of. A perfect example is when

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Speaker 2: Bender does his impersonation of what it's like at the

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Speaker 2: Johnson resident the cuts to Anthony Michael Hall and his reaction.

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Speaker 2: You can read it as he's hurt because he's being

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Speaker 2: made fun of, But because we know what the dynamic

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Speaker 2: really is like at home, we as a viewer appreciate

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Speaker 2: that on a different level. We see through it a

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Speaker 2: little bit and we recognize that he's not just hurt

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Speaker 2: it being made fun of. He's actually hurt because he

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Speaker 2: wishes his home life was probably that way, and it's

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Speaker 2: not that way at all. So there are double layers

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Speaker 2: to a lot of what's going on in this film.

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Speaker 2: And we were talking about how quotable this is. And

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Speaker 2: for me in fifth grade when I saw this movie,

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Speaker 2: we watched it hundreds of times I mean probably not hundreds,

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Speaker 2: but it felt like it and we did know every

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Speaker 2: single line. So one of the questions I was really

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Speaker 2: wondering as I sat down to watch it now, like

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Speaker 2: I said, at least twenty years since I last saw it,

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Speaker 2: it was could it make me laugh? Could I actually

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Speaker 2: laugh out loud when I know all the lines, I

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Speaker 2: know all the jokes and what's coming. I laughed a lot.

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Speaker 2: I laughed out loud a lot of this movie. And

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Speaker 2: it wasn't at the big, broader jokes. The things that

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Speaker 2: did make me laugh a lot as a nine or

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Speaker 2: ten year old. It was the reactions, the expressions on

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Speaker 2: their faces, the overall absurdity of some of those moments,

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Speaker 2: like Bender and Brian Judd Nelson and Anthony Michael Hall

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Speaker 2: taking their coats off at the same time, and Ryan

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Speaker 2: acquiesces when Bender kind of shoots him a dirty look,

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Speaker 2: like are you copying me or something? And it's not

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Speaker 2: just that he decides to stop and put his coat

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Speaker 2: back on, that's funny enough, it's that he then rubs

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Speaker 2: his hands together like he's cold and he really wants

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Speaker 2: to put his jacket back on, but he feels the

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Speaker 2: need to put on that show is really funny. The

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Speaker 2: look Bender gives him when he does the I'm a

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Speaker 2: Walrus bit and he puts the pen on his lip.

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Speaker 2: Those bits for me that I maybe didn't laugh so

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Speaker 2: hard at, like I said, however many years ago, were

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Speaker 2: really funny to me this time.

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Speaker 4: A lot of those are the social cues that the

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Speaker 4: film just nails in how teens walk into a room

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Speaker 4: and it's immediately perhaps you know, it still happens when

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Speaker 4: you're adult, of course, but never more so as heightened

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Speaker 4: as when you're a teen. You're immediately staking your place,

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Speaker 4: and it captures how that's done through gestures and through

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Speaker 4: looks and those sorts of things. So life at Bry's

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Speaker 4: that scene is perhaps the standout to me. I had

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Speaker 4: three scenes that I want to make sure we talked okay,

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Speaker 4: and we got to the first one already, Estevez's confession

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Speaker 4: of bowling. I think that's crucial, and I think he's

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Speaker 4: fantastic in it, and I like how Hughes uses the

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Speaker 4: camera there too, as you said, unbroken, but also moving

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Speaker 4: around to include all of them in this conversation. This

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Speaker 4: was much more visually sophisticated than I would have expected

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Speaker 4: in revisiting it. But the other two scenes I wanted

347
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Speaker 4: to talk about are who I do give my MVP

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Speaker 4: award again, not that we need to, but to Judd Nelson, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and life at Bryce the way that goes from this

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Speaker 4: comic impersonation that's.

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Speaker 5: Also so bitter.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's just so clear that the reason this

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Speaker 4: really bothers him is because his home life is not

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Speaker 4: like that too, And as much fun as he's making

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Speaker 4: of Brian, that he's also just furious because of this

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Speaker 4: other element going on. And then how it transitioned to

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Speaker 4: the impression of life at his house, which is really scary.

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Speaker 4: I mean, Nelson and we got to talk about this

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Speaker 4: as well, how he treats Claire, because I think we

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Speaker 4: look at that differently, people in general would look at

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Speaker 4: that differently than they did in nineteen eighty five. And

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Speaker 4: he's scary with her too. But I think that's a

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Speaker 4: very good element of the performance. I love the different

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Speaker 4: levels that Nelson brings to this. Even when he has

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Speaker 4: that early standoff with Vernon and he gets the four

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Speaker 4: or eight extra weeks of detention, there's that.

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Speaker 5: Moment got Chay, Yeah, there's that.

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Speaker 4: Moment where he turns away and you can see that. Okay,

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Speaker 4: most high school comedies would play that up.

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Speaker 5: Purely for Trump the rebel.

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Speaker 4: He's the rebel, but they hold it that one extra

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Speaker 4: beat so that he shows he's pissed at himself.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, for him leeing self control.

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Speaker 4: He can't believe he did it.

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Speaker 5: So those are two things.

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Speaker 4: The other one goes to Nelson too, and it is

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Speaker 4: that early one where it's it's a sexual harassment slash

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Speaker 4: seduction of Claire and watching that very early on where

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Speaker 4: he's trying to find out, you know what, how sexually

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Speaker 4: experienced she is. He's flirting with her at the same

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Speaker 4: time she's acting repulse but also pulling back enough here

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Speaker 4: and there to I don't want to say toy with him,

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Speaker 4: but to give him the hint that she's still listening.

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Speaker 5: Let's just put it that way for sure, all right.

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Speaker 4: So in nineteen eighty five, and as a kid, you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm taking.

387
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Speaker 5: That as Wow, is this guy cool?

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Speaker 3: You know?

389
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Speaker 4: And you'll hear from women too, or I think I

390
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:51,800
Speaker 4: saw it on It might have been the film's finding

391
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Speaker 4: Facebook feed. That's where girls fell in love with John Bender,

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Speaker 4: that bad boy.

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Speaker 7: What's yours?

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Speaker 3: Claire? Claire Claire.

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Speaker 2: It's a family name.

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Speaker 7: Oh it's a fat girl's name. Oh, thank you, you're welcome.

397
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Speaker 7: Not fat, well, not a present, but I could see

398
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Speaker 7: you really pushing maximum density.

399
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Speaker 3: You see.

400
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Speaker 6: I'm not sure if you know this, but there are

401
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Speaker 6: two kinds of fat people.

402
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,399
Speaker 3: There's fat people that were born to be fat, and

403
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:18,160
Speaker 3: there's fat.

404
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,159
Speaker 6: People that were once thin but they became fat. So

405
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:22,840
Speaker 6: when you look at them, you can sort of see

406
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Speaker 6: that thin person inside.

407
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,920
Speaker 7: You see you're gonna get married, You're gonna squeeze out

408
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Speaker 7: a few puppies. And then, oh, I've.

409
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Speaker 6: Seen finger gestures from such a pristine girl.

410
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Speaker 1: Not that pristine.

411
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Speaker 6: Are you a virgin? I'll bet you a million dollars

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Speaker 6: that you are.

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Speaker 4: You read that scene today where we're much more attuned

414
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Speaker 4: to things like sexual harassment, and it reads very creepily.

415
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,120
Speaker 4: But I think that's good as well, because it speaks

416
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,880
Speaker 4: to the authenticity. So we could say we could put

417
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Speaker 4: a politically correct label on this and say, oh, breakfast

418
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,800
Speaker 4: Club is so dated because of scenes like that, but

419
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Speaker 4: I think it speaks to an authenticity again of the

420
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Speaker 4: social cues of how girls and guys, whether it's right

421
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Speaker 4: or wrong, do interact and how they handle those sorts

422
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Speaker 4: of interactions. Now, the one place where we might want

423
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Speaker 4: to talk about does the movie make a misstep is

424
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Speaker 4: in following through on where does that relationship go by

425
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Speaker 4: the end of the film. A Is that believable? And

426
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Speaker 4: B is that maybe getting us to root for something

427
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,480
Speaker 4: that really is unhealthy. I'm still trying to work my

428
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,720
Speaker 4: way through that because people read the ending differently as well.

429
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 4: Whether or not Bender and Claire do end up together

430
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Speaker 4: or was this kind of a one off flirtation thing.

431
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Speaker 2: Well, let's just go ahead and get to it, because

432
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Speaker 2: I don't want to sidetrack the whole review with it.

433
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Speaker 2: But for me, it's not as problematic because I do

434
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Speaker 2: see it as more of a one off type of thing.

435
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 2: I don't think come Monday, Bender and Claire are holding

436
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,880
Speaker 2: hands with each other walking down the hall, or he's

437
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,399
Speaker 2: showing up at her house and angering her father. I

438
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,479
Speaker 2: see this as a one time act of kindness and

439
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,639
Speaker 2: compassion and deciding to call a truce.

440
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 1: But that's it.

441
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 2: I don't see them embarking on any kind of a

442
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 2: relationship with each other.

443
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:16,880
Speaker 5: Okay, I wouldn't go quite that far.

444
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,119
Speaker 4: I don't think they're holding hands on Monday either. But

445
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 4: I think the movie wants you to believe there is

446
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 4: a relationship that will continue there, and I think in

447
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,640
Speaker 4: having us root for that is where we might want

448
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,160
Speaker 4: to say, uh, okay, I don't know if that's that's

449
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 4: quite so healthy. But that also brings to mind somebody

450
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 4: I thought of after watching this, how did they not

451
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,879
Speaker 4: make the sequel The Breakfast Club Monday Morning and let

452
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 4: us know, you know, what really happened to these kids

453
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,120
Speaker 4: when they showed up that day. I'm totally with you.

454
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 4: Nobody even gave each other a second glance. Yeah, I mean,

455
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,479
Speaker 4: as hopeful as this movie wants to be, if it

456
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 4: really stayed true and was as authentic as it is

457
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 4: to these kids that Monday morning would be they don't

458
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 4: know each other.

459
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 2: Well, maybe we'll come back to this. It is sort

460
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:57,880
Speaker 2: of like Before Sunrise in a little bit where you win.

461
00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,719
Speaker 2: Six months later, what's going to happen? And the key

462
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 2: question uestion for thirty years And that's one of the

463
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 2: beauties of this film as well, is that we still

464
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 2: have that question to ask and ponder in debate because

465
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 2: we don't know the answer. But I'm with you, except

466
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 2: I would say Josh. A second glance is exactly what

467
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 2: they do and no more. I think we get the

468
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,360
Speaker 2: second glance. I think there's a little bit social queue.

469
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,360
Speaker 4: Where they try to let each other know that they

470
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 4: remember said right. Anyone else sees.

471
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. But that's what bender.

472
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 2: I appreciated him as a young man, as a young

473
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 2: kid because I respected his verbal dexterity and his sort

474
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 2: of just rebellious spirit.

475
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 1: It probably was look.

476
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 2: I wasn't growing up watching scooball comedy, So watching someone

477
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 2: who is that quick and that witty and able to

478
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,199
Speaker 2: disarm people the way he was that was attractive to

479
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,159
Speaker 2: me at that age. I didn't really see it as

480
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 2: a performance in anything deeper than that until watching it

481
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 2: this time. I do love his costuming as well. I

482
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 2: picked him as one of the top five Halloween costumes

483
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 2: I'd wear fast this past October. But you watch it,

484
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 2: it's such a hodgepodge of looks. He's grabbing an all

485
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 2: these different places to try to form some kind of identity.

486
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 2: You've got the flannel before flannel was a look, the boots,

487
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 2: those hand glove things he's wearing a little bit, there's

488
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 2: some of that kind of biker, rebel, criminal thing. But

489
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 2: there's also a guy wearing that overcoat like he's a prep.

490
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,679
Speaker 2: You know, he really is just grasping at anything, and

491
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,680
Speaker 2: I think that applies to a lot of the characters here.

492
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 2: But you're right in terms of the performance, that sense

493
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 2: of anger and resentment but also pain that underlies everything here.

494
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 2: You realize watching it this time that he's overcompensating for everything.

495
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 2: That confident routine really is just completely enact with him.

496
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 2: And what is underlying everything is that fear that everything

497
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 2: Andrew says to him at one point is accurate. Oh,

498
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 2: just that he really doesn't matter, and that comes through

499
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 2: in Nelson's performance.

500
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 4: And Claire calls him out on it too, And that's

501
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 4: where I like the ring Wall performance where she definitely

502
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 4: has those strong moments where she gives it back to

503
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 4: him and lay great bear. She sees through all of

504
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 4: that because she's doing similar things. They're all doing similar things,

505
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 4: so they all know what they're doing, but who's going

506
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 4: to admit to it. Well, first of all, they're going

507
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:05,959
Speaker 4: to call each other out on it.

508
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 8: This episode is brought to you by Peloton break Through

509
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 8: the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton

510
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511
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512
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513
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514
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515
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Speaker 8: at oneploton dot Com.

516
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 5: Yeah.

517
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: No, that's exactly right.

518
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 2: And I think that as we talk about the look

519
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 2: of this film, you mentioned that it was more visually

520
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 2: sophisticated than you.

521
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: Remember it or would have even noticed it. That's right.

522
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 2: I think that shot, though, that unbroken take that rotates

523
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 2: around the group, is probably the only shot that really

524
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 2: calls attention to itself in the film. But what I

525
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 2: noticed this time, and this is one of those bits

526
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 2: on the show here where audio certainly doesn't help us.

527
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 2: A video essay would be much more instructive, because what

528
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 2: I loved is is the editing. I really noticed this

529
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 2: time how much of the movie is made by the cutting,

530
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 2: because it's not visually audacious, and it has so many

531
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 2: memorable lines of dialogue in it. I think everybody focuses

532
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 2: on the writing, and they give Hughes All this credit

533
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 2: as a screenwriter but all of the relationships, the character dynamics,

534
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 2: it's all revealed in the silences, in the looks on

535
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 2: their faces, in their reactions, because it really is all

536
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 2: about their perceptions of each other, and not only that,

537
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 2: how we perceive their perceptions. So, as I said before,

538
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 2: everything is loaded, So when you cut to a reaction shot,

539
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,719
Speaker 2: you're really focused on how they're taking that in and

540
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 2: what that tells you about how they see themselves, how

541
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 2: they see the person who's talking. That is something certainly

542
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 2: at age nine or ten I didn't catch on too,

543
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 2: but it's there. It really is in those decisions and

544
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 2: think about that. That has to be pretty formally rigorous

545
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 2: because you've got pretty much the whole film, five people

546
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 2: sitting around each other, and depending on how they shot it,

547
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 2: and depending on how he was visualized it and maybe

548
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 2: storyboarded it or not, there was probably a lot of

549
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 2: coverage options to cut to, so the editor could have

550
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 2: gone in a lot of different directions, but it's very precise.

551
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: Every cut is done for a reason, and every cut

552
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: does have some meaning. And that was something, as I said,

553
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 2: that caught me by surprise this.

554
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 4: Time for a movie that primarily takes place within that library,

555
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 4: it does not feel static at all.

556
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 5: And when they get out.

557
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 4: Of the library, I noticed too that there's some nice

558
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 4: framing of individuals or even them as a group within

559
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 4: these long institutional halls, and you could just tell that

560
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 4: care has been taken in trying to place them within

561
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 4: this landscape and alienate them a little bit. I mean,

562
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 4: we don only get too carried away and that you're

563
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 4: going to put this in and it's going to wow

564
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 4: you with its cinematography. Now, but compared to most team

565
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,959
Speaker 4: comedies where the cameras just PLoP down and they go

566
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 4: for the gags, it really does have another level going on.

567
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 4: In the soundtrack too, a little bit with there's the

568
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 4: moment in particular. I think the same thing happens later on,

569
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 4: but the one I'm thinking of is very early on

570
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 4: when Vernon slams the door shut and Bender screams the

571
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 4: FU and it echoes in a way, and we cut

572
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 4: to Vernon and we were not quite sure whether Bender

573
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 4: even said it or if this is something that you know,

574
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 4: this is just how Vernon.

575
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 8: Sees these kids.

576
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: It's interesting and.

577
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 4: It's amplified and there's just a little some nicely clever

578
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 4: bits going on.

579
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: Like that for sure, Carl, What can I ask you

580
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: a question?

581
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 7: Sure? How does one become a janitor? Do you want

582
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 7: to be a janitor?

583
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 4: No?

584
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 6: I just want to know how one becomes a janitor

585
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 6: because Andrew here is very interested in pursuing a career

586
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 6: in the custodia arts.

587
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 7: Oh really, do you guys think I'm just someth untouchable peasant,

588
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:42,479
Speaker 7: sir pon?

589
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 3: You know, maybe so.

590
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 7: Falling a broom around after shitheads like you. For the

591
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 7: last eight years, I've learned a couple of things. I

592
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 7: look through your letters, look through your lockers. I listened

593
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 7: to your conversations. You don't know that, but I do.

594
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 7: I am the eye and ears of this institution, my friends.

595
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: Now, I thought it'd be interesting to hear from one

596
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 2: of the key figures in the movie, Carl, the janitor,

597
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 2: John Capelos, was available for us to talk to and

598
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 2: do an interview with, and obviously it seemed like a

599
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 2: perfect fit for this thirtieth anniversary review of The Breakfast Club.

600
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 2: And even though we couldn't do it, Golden Joe Tosso,

601
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,439
Speaker 2: our amazing co producer, was available to conduct the interview.

602
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 2: He took some of my questions worked in a few

603
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 2: of his own, and Joe got John Capelos's take on

604
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 2: why he thinks the movie resonated so strongly with audiences

605
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty five and why it continues to.

606
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 6: I think because it hits on universal truths that are

607
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 6: always going to be there. In adolescence. There's fear, there's

608
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 6: a fear of failure, there's sort of dealing with your

609
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 6: parents and all the sort of the incumbent issues that

610
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 6: you know, and you walk away from the film going,

611
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 6: wait a minute, what just happened? Here was a sort

612
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 6: of a Catharsis for these people. And I think that

613
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 6: kids continually relate to this movie because it addresses teenage

614
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 6: acts and it doesn't talk down to them period.

615
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 2: I really responded to the fact that all of their

616
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: problems don't get solved, and I don't know that I

617
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 2: expected that, knowing the movie as well as I did,

618
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: but I think a lot of teen movies might have

619
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: gone there. They overcome their differences temporarily, they don't correct

620
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 2: themselves or each other. Nobody gets fixed. I think here

621
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 2: watching this movie, they don't absolve each other for their

622
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: deficiencies and their foibles because of course they can't. That's

623
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 2: not reality. And I think that gets back to what

624
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 2: you were saying in terms of authenticity. This is a

625
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 2: reprieve from those lives, but they're going to get back

626
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 2: to those lives. And to use the word that I

627
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 2: think is so appropriate. We heard from Carl the janitor

628
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 2: John Kapolos, it's catharsis. There is a sense of Catharsis

629
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 2: at the end of this film, and I was thinking

630
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 2: about why that final shot, that final frame of Bender

631
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 2: with his fist up in the air, why that gives

632
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 2: you this sense of triumph when at the end the

633
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 2: day you think nothing much has really changed here. And

634
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 2: actually Diablo Cody, the screenwriter, is on the DVD and

635
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 2: she talks about it as it's of course playing very

636
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 2: memorably to the Simple Mind song Don't You Forget About Me.

637
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 2: She says, it's just about a saturday in detention, but

638
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 2: you feel like a battle has been won, And she's right,

639
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 2: you do somehow feel like a battle has been won,

640
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 2: or at least some kind of blow has been struck, right,

641
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: something decisive has happened, even if it's not going to

642
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 2: change everything forever, some kind of blow has been struck

643
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 2: against conformity, against complacency, falling into those roles and those

644
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 2: prior beliefs about each other and ultimately about compassion. And

645
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 2: that's what I was hinting at when I said they'll

646
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 2: at least give each other that second look. I think

647
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 2: that second look is that bit of compassion. So lots

648
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 2: of C words there, but catharsis is a big one

649
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 2: as well as compassion.

650
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 5: I think the right word is reprieve. I think that's

651
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 5: dead on.

652
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 4: And the difference is that this is a reprieve that

653
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 4: you feel is formative. So if it does not have

654
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 4: a practical effect on Monday morning, the hope is it

655
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 4: will gradually as they move on with their lives. All right,

656
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 4: So let me pump the brakes a little bit on

657
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 4: this saw, this enthusiasm, and.

658
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: Just ask.

659
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 4: I can ruin that they just have to, you know,

660
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 4: one of us has to be a little bit reasonable

661
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 4: about the breakfast club. Some of the dialogue, it seems

662
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 4: like I feel like Hughes understands kids much better than

663
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 4: maybe he understood how they talked things like eat my shorts.

664
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 4: And you know, no one in whatever grade I was,

665
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 4: sixth or fifth would say that, no there's a lot

666
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 4: of lines like that, the dance montage to I mean,

667
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 4: I know, are they high at that point?

668
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 5: Is that the excuse we give them.

669
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 2: Right, which I don't think anybody really reacts to being

670
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 2: high that way.

671
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: Everyone gets menik like they're on PCP or something.

672
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 4: And then they're doing these routines together. I mean, you know,

673
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 4: he had fun with it, but as a kid, I

674
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 4: thought that was pretty corny.

675
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: So I don't know.

676
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 2: I think those lines, Josh, it did occur to me

677
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 2: when he says eat my shorts, and there were maybe

678
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,959
Speaker 2: one or two other bendor lines where I thought I

679
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 2: don't think he would say it that way. But those

680
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 2: are so compensated for by all of the other really

681
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 2: insightful lines and those pieces of dialogue like you already

682
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 2: touched on where you get the end of a scene

683
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 2: with a line like Andrew recognizing, how do you apologize

684
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: for that? There are too many good lines like that

685
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 2: where you just.

686
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 5: Think that's why the clunkers stand down. Yeah, maybe.

687
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: At all.

688
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 2: No, that really isn't, especially when as I was saying

689
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 2: a couple of other things, I like Paul Gleeson as

690
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 2: he's phenomenal, and this is sort of like when Roger

691
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 2: Ebert revisited the Graduate after I think thirty years of

692
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 2: thirty five years, and he was kind of negative on

693
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: the movie, and he told that story about how when

694
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 2: he was a kid, he saw the guy at the

695
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 2: pool party giving Benjamin Braddick advice about plastics and he

696
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 2: laughed at him like everybody else did in the audience.

697
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: And now thirty years later he thinks.

698
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 2: Plastics not a bad idea, right, he has that different

699
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 2: perspective being an older man. Well, Paul Gleeson as Vernon

700
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 2: at that time was nothing but an adversary and antagon

701
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 2: who didn't understand these kids. He was purely the enemy.

702
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,239
Speaker 2: But it's not a surprise that Hughes gives him that

703
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 2: scene with Carl in the basement of the school, and

704
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 2: you get a sense of his own disillusionment with his

705
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 2: role and what he's doing there at the school. Why

706
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,239
Speaker 2: he's even there at the school on a Saturday at

707
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 2: all for someone who should be in a loftier position.

708
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,239
Speaker 2: I mean thirty one, I think he said thirty one

709
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 2: thousand dollars a year.

710
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not about redeeming him.

711
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 2: It's not about us ever sighting with him against the kids,

712
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 2: but it is at least a little bit about getting

713
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 2: his perspective, and I think that's enough having a little

714
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 2: bit of empathy for where he's coming from as well.

715
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: It makes him a more interesting figure when you have

716
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 2: that bit of empathy for him. And I do think

717
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 2: that Carl's line to Vernon underscores another key moment in

718
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 2: the movie for me, along with Allison's line, which is listen,

719
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 2: vern if you were sixteen, what would you think of you?

720
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: That's something that he probably hadn't thought of until Carl

721
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 2: said that to him, really forced himself to look at

722
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 2: it that way and wondered how far he's come and

723
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 2: how much he has changed in this process. And watching

724
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 2: this movie again, when they cut to him in his

725
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 2: office and he's isolated in there while they're isolated in

726
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,280
Speaker 2: that library setting, you are keenly aware of his isolation

727
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 2: and his loneliness and a sense that he's being punished

728
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:18,919
Speaker 2: as well. He has to sit there, as we said

729
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 2: on this Saturday, that's what his life has amounted to.

730
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 2: That probably isn't what he envisioned when he started out,

731
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 2: as Karl alludes to in that conversation, all he has

732
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 2: really going for him is power or some sense of respect,

733
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 2: and the kids don't even give him that, so of

734
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 2: course imagine how he's then going to behave. But again,

735
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 2: I never felt any empathy for Vernon before, or recognized

736
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 2: any of myself in Vernon, and now as I watch it,

737
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 2: I realize that there is a lot more tunem than that.

738
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 8: Well.

739
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 4: Gleason makes him more than the butt of the joke

740
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 4: for sure, I mean he is the literal butt of

741
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 4: the joke in many instances, but because of that scene

742
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 4: you mentioned, and he's also not just a cardboard villain,

743
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 4: because his villainy, if you can even and use that word,

744
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 4: ties into what I think really this movie is spending

745
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 4: a lot of time considering and it's parental failure. He

746
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 4: is treating these kids, or relating to them power the

747
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 4: word you use, the same way that it appears most

748
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 4: of their parents relate to them, this authoritarian power dynamic.

749
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 4: He just puts that into place at school, that's what

750
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 4: they're experiencing at home, And if anything, the movie is

751
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 4: this argument that there are more to your kids or

752
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 4: the teenage experience than just keeping them in line and

753
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 4: making sure they do what they're supposed.

754
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 2: To do right there is at least one more topic

755
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 2: I want to get into before we finalize this review,

756
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 2: but I thought it would make sense to hear a

757
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 2: little bit more from John Kapolos. Of course, Carl the

758
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 2: janitor here in this movie. As I was talking about

759
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 2: that conversation in the basement and the relationship between Carl

760
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 2: and Vernon, I wanted Joe to ask him about the

761
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: fact that he seems to be articulating one of the

762
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 2: key l of the movie, almost given the theme of

763
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 2: the movie to bestow on Vernon and the audience, and

764
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 2: I wanted his sense of his function as a character

765
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 2: in the movie to me.

766
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 6: A lot of what Carl does is kind of underlines,

767
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 6: as one would say, the theme of the film, but

768
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 6: also underlines the notion that you you have dreams, you

769
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 6: have aspirations, you have things you want to be, but

770
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 6: be prepared because they are going to be crushed. And

771
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 6: you think the detention is difficult, and you think that

772
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 6: this world that you're in right now is difficult, you know,

773
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 6: stay tuned. And there was a monologue that I delivered

774
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 6: that told them world, they're all going to be like

775
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 6: twenty five thirty years like today, right. I told Mollie

776
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 6: that she's going to have stretch marks from here to Zion.

777
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 6: She's going to have five kids, a Ford suburban. She's

778
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 6: going to be drinking too much, and her husband's not

779
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 6: going to pay attention to her. You know, have fun

780
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 6: with that. And I told Michael he's going to be

781
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 6: a big lawyer, is going to work in a big

782
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 6: loop law firm. He's going to be big money and

783
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 6: he's going to have a big heart attack and a

784
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 6: big funeral at forty two. I told Emilio that he's

785
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 6: going to be a failed athlete and he's going to

786
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 6: be a gym teacher for the rest of his life

787
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 6: and living vicariously through his son, like his father is

788
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 6: living through him, and on and on it goes Judd Nelson.

789
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 6: I said, well, you're going to spend five years at Attica,

790
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 6: four years in Chino, you know, for armed robbery, and

791
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 6: I sort of enumerated this long list of crimes that

792
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,399
Speaker 6: he's going to commit. And Ali Sheedy failed loft artist

793
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 6: in New York, living off the kindness of strangers, etc.

794
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: So it was a.

795
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 6: Really great thing because in a way that expressed like, hey,

796
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 6: you know, you think you got it tough now stay tuned,

797
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 6: and in a way he was sort of senior buzzkill.

798
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: So John goes on to explain that DeeDee Allen the editor,

799
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 2: and John he was ultimately decided to leave that monologue

800
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 2: out of the film. Obviously it's not there, and boy

801
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 2: are we grateful, right? I mean, can you imagine if

802
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 2: all of that was unloaded on those kids and us

803
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 2: as an audience, it have been totally heavy handed, and

804
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 2: it would have been unnecessary. And now that I'm thinking

805
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,959
Speaker 2: about that smart choice by d d Allen, and I'm

806
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 2: thinking of my comments earlier about how sophisticated the editing

807
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 2: is in this film. Just before I sat down here,

808
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 2: I thought D d Allen he mentioned her by name,

809
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 2: otherwise I probably would have failed to That sounds really familiar.

810
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 2: I'm gonna look her up on IMDb and see what

811
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,479
Speaker 2: else she has done, And of course what we see

812
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 2: is just a few movies like The Hustler, Bonnie and Clyde, Surproco,

813
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 2: Dog Day Afternoon Reds.

814
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 5: Nice.

815
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 2: She's done, She's done some work, and it certainly was

816
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 2: a case where she had the right instinct to lose

817
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 2: that monologue. Though it does explain Josh why when he

818
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 2: says that line about the clock, by the way, is

819
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 2: twenty minutes fast. They really react to that, and I

820
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 2: noticed watching it this time, they seemed almost overreact to it,

821
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 2: like it was a better little closing jab than it is. Well,

822
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 2: it's because that was the kicker to that monologue, which

823
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 2: would have been much funnier.

824
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 4: And they also keep a slight variation on that. Bender

825
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 4: delivers a little bit of that that's true to Claire,

826
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 4: so we get a tap that's funny. He describes Carl

827
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,760
Speaker 4: as a buzzkill because he struck me on this watch

828
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 4: as being pretty zen actually.

829
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 5: And this model of a guy who.

830
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 4: Maybe didn't end up where you know he envisioned, but

831
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,760
Speaker 4: few people do and take it as.

832
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 5: It comes, and it is.

833
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 4: It's a really good performance. Yeah, it does, sir, for

834
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 4: as little screen time as he got, serves a crucial

835
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 4: function for the film.

836
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,399
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I told you I had one more area

837
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 2: I wanted to get into. I just would be remiss.

838
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 2: I think we'd be remiss if we didn't go down

839
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 2: this path. You talked about Claire and Bender and that

840
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 2: relationship maybe being more problematic. But I'm going to get

841
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 2: to another clip here that I want to prompt you

842
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 2: with Josh a little bit, because back in two thousand

843
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 2: and seven, I interviewed Ellen Page and Diablo Cody for

844
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 2: the movie Juno, and I asked Cody about an Entertainment

845
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 2: Weekly article I had read that she was interviewed for

846
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 2: where she referenced angela chase from My so called Life

847
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 2: as a bit of a template for Juno similar sensibilities,

848
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 2: and I asked her if she had any others, and

849
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 2: she mentioned ghost a World, but basically said, it's kind

850
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:02,760
Speaker 2: of sad that I can only think of a couple

851
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 2: of examples of these kind of strong female characters on screen.

852
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 2: And so then I asked Ellen Page if she could

853
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 2: think of any others, and that led her to Ali.

854
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 9: Shety that Ali Sheedy gets all pretty in the end

855
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 9: for the boy. I can't believe that this is like

856
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 9: an iconic breaking barriers movie. I am sorry for all

857
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:21,919
Speaker 9: the lovers at the breakfast club, but when I first

858
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 9: saw that, I was like traumatized. Really, the unique girl

859
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 9: totally changes herself.

860
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 3: It's so strange that you brought that up, because I

861
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 3: had discussed that with somebody earlier today.

862
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 9: Actually, the whole Ali Shady thing at the end is

863
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 9: deeply distressing, and for what Emilia asked OFVZ.

864
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: You know, but he's a wrestler.

865
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I want to know, Josh, did you find

866
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 2: it deeply distressing that transformation that Alison makes at the

867
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 2: end of the film. Cody is all over the Breakfast

868
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: Club thirtieth Anniversary Blu Ray. She's in documentary. She does

869
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 2: love this movie and praises it considerably. But they ask

870
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 2: her about this and she doesn't back down from saying

871
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 2: that she sees it as a little bit of a

872
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 2: betrayal of that character, Allison selling out.

873
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 5: What do you think totally with her?

874
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 4: Really the point, oh, come on to the point that

875
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 4: even my self, my eleven year old self recognized, I

876
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 4: can distinctly remember that being a let down for me

877
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 4: as a boy because one of the characters that I

878
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 4: probably I mean, I wasn't like I would say, being

879
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 4: an introvert as a kid. I remember being feeling connected

880
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 4: to the Ali Sheety character to that degree that there's

881
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 4: really no type in that film that I identified with

882
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 4: when I was in high school. They're probably just too broad,

883
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 4: nobody really does. But I very much liked her character.

884
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:43,399
Speaker 4: Let me put it that way.

885
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 1: I thought I thought she would in the performance, just.

886
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,720
Speaker 4: You know, someone who was really cool in that sort

887
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 4: of in the background watching what's going on, probably smarter

888
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 4: than maybe even Brian and dolling it out only when

889
00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 4: it was necessary. So I really liked Allison, and I

890
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 4: remember being like, what is this now? No, this is

891
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 4: no good beyond not even just not buying the romantic

892
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 4: element of it, but this sort of what they're getting

893
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 4: at more is like, this is not her, this is

894
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 4: not you know, doesn't need to happen.

895
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 5: So yeah, I'm with them on that.

896
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I definitely see the argument for sure, but

897
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 2: I didn't see it that way as a kid, and

898
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 2: I still don't completely see it that way now. And

899
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 2: I think it is worth noting the specific words that

900
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 2: Ellen Page used there where she talks about how she

901
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 2: can't believe people regard it as some kind of big

902
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,280
Speaker 2: breaking barriers movie and that Allison's some kind of feminist

903
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 2: icon or something. I don't think that's something I would argue,

904
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 2: and I've never heard anyone else argue it. So if

905
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 2: she was coming to the movie with that weight, expecting

906
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:44,760
Speaker 2: it to live up to that, I think the movie

907
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 2: probably really would disappoint I suppose too, I would ask,

908
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 2: and I'm legitimately asking. I don't have this answer. Maybe

909
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 2: other people will share their opinion. Is something that is

910
00:42:55,400 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 2: not feminist then anti feminist? Because I don't know that

911
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 2: it's exactly.

912
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 4: It's beyond that. I mean, it's the makeover.

913
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: The makeover is never no, I agree to an extent.

914
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 5: It's just a bad trope.

915
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 1: I agree to an extent. But here's here is my

916
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: one counter.

917
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 2: And this is my genuine response to it, and it

918
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 2: was the response when I was a kid. Does Alison

919
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 2: really change herself for Andy? Is there a transformation or

920
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 2: more of a reveal of who she really might be?

921
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 2: Because that's how I see it. I think his comment

922
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 2: to her is important. The first thing he says to her, actually,

923
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 2: the first thing he verbalizes is I can see your

924
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 2: face he finally sees her at the end of the film,

925
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 2: rather than who she's been up to this point, a girl,

926
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 2: as I saw it, and as I see it, literally

927
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 2: hiding behind the unkempt hair and bangs and the black eyeliner.

928
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,800
Speaker 2: So I'd be distressed by it more if that character

929
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,720
Speaker 2: I ever felt was really comfortable in her own skin

930
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 2: and she compromised her identity to win the affection of

931
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 2: a boy. But I don't think she compromises her identity

932
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 2: because she's still trying to discover it, just like everyone else.

933
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 2: And so, yes, in hindsight, would be better if she

934
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 2: didn't put the blush on her cheeks? Would it be

935
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 2: better if maybe she didn't strip down to that pink shirt?

936
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 5: Yeah?

937
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: Okay, maybe so.

938
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 2: But for me, it's more about stripping away than adding.

939
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 2: And I think that's exactly what suggested, is that a

940
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 2: mask has been removed, not added, by the makeup.

941
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 4: That could very well be what they were going for,

942
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 4: but the method they took is hack made and problematic.

943
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 5: There's no way around that.

944
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know that I completely buy that, but

945
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 2: I see the argument I think too. To bolster my argument,

946
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 2: I'll just say, how great is it that her final

947
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 2: moment with Andrew is her stealing the patch off his jacket,

948
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 2: Just in case we thought, well, she's no longer the

949
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 2: basket case she prettied herself all up. All of her

950
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 2: problems have been solved by this little makeover, and now

951
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 2: she's like everyone else, just conforming to the way high

952
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 2: school is. Nope, she rips off that patch, and I

953
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 2: just think that's one of those great little touches that

954
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,919
Speaker 2: shows how in sync Hughes was with these characters, even

955
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 2: after a little bit of misstepping with how that reveal

956
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:55,879
Speaker 2: goes down.

957
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,280
Speaker 4: Unless she's going to put it on her own letterman jacket,

958
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 4: you know, then the transformation's completely Maybe.

959
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: That was going to happen. That would be fine, That

960
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 1: would be fine.

961
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 2: Okay, there is a lot more I think we could

962
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,399
Speaker 2: talk about with The Breakfast Club, But wow, I think

963
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 2: we've talked enough, so we cover to go ahead and

964
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 2: close out there. Oh je up, I'll be.

965
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 7: I've done so.

966
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:26,280
Speaker 2: You know, maybe I'm gonna recommend Josh that ten years

967
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 2: from now we give The Breakfast Club another look, see

968
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 2: how we come at that movie for its fiftieth anniversary,

969
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 2: because you know, I'm sure it came up in that conversation.

970
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 1: I didn't re listen to it. I don't want to

971
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: re listen to it.

972
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 2: Maybe I will ten years from now and see how

973
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 2: I wrestled with it upon that revisit. But that movie,

974
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 2: for me was one of the first movies I remember

975
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 2: incessantly quoting and thinking was not only hilarious but also profound,

976
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 2: you know, and I was I was like ten, you know,

977
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 2: so whatever profound meant at ten, I thought that movie.

978
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 4: Was it was a peek into the high schooler's life, right,

979
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:07,240
Speaker 4: that's what you were giving.

980
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 5: Yeah.

981
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

982
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 2: Reminder that you can get full archive access over one

983
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 2: thousand episodes going back to two thousand and five, Get

984
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,080
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985
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,400
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986
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:27,200
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987
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,839
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988
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,719
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989
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,760
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990
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,799
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991
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,120
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992
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,920
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993
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,960
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994
00:46:52,000 --> 00:47:12,240
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995
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:15,040
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999
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:29,600
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