1
00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,440
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff

2
00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:18,880
Speaker 1: One Never told you a productive by Heart Radio. Before

3
00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:23,360
Speaker 1: we get into today's episode, just a quick content warning

4
00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,720
Speaker 1: or we're just going to be discussing some topics around

5
00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,040
Speaker 1: sexual assaults. I feel like Donald Trump is kind of

6
00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,800
Speaker 1: a warning in it himself. But the book we're talking

7
00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,839
Speaker 1: about today at large does go into it. Highly recommend

8
00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,520
Speaker 1: you read it. Don't. We barely touch the surface. There's

9
00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,600
Speaker 1: so much that we didn't get to talk about in

10
00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,040
Speaker 1: this conversation, so go check it out, but just know

11
00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:49,479
Speaker 1: that that is something that is in there. And today

12
00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,600
Speaker 1: we are so excited to be joined by journalist and

13
00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,240
Speaker 1: author of the New York Times best selling book Not

14
00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,440
Speaker 1: My Type One Woman Versus A President, Ejene Carroll.

15
00:00:58,520 --> 00:00:59,680
Speaker 2: Welcome to the show.

16
00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,040
Speaker 3: Yay exactly.

17
00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:08,479
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm just glad to see that you are here.

18
00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:10,800
Speaker 2: I hear you've been on jury duty.

19
00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:12,640
Speaker 3: I yes, I was.

20
00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:14,319
Speaker 4: I actually tried to look up the case because I

21
00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:16,840
Speaker 4: did get dismissed. They didn't like me enough or they

22
00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:18,880
Speaker 4: were afraid of me, one of the two things.

23
00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:20,199
Speaker 3: So I got dismissed.

24
00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,320
Speaker 2: What was the case? What was the case?

25
00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,319
Speaker 4: It was malicious murder, and a lot of felonies with that.

26
00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,320
Speaker 4: So it was a shooting that happened here in Decatur

27
00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,000
Speaker 4: slash Atlanta. So I was it was going to be

28
00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:35,480
Speaker 4: at least a five day trial, We're pretty sure.

29
00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,640
Speaker 2: But no, at least yeah. Yeah.

30
00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,160
Speaker 4: So I was like, hey, so our jury, Yeah, our

31
00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:47,560
Speaker 4: initial jury questioning took two days and they didn't even

32
00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:49,840
Speaker 4: finish with us. They were just like, okay, wow, we

33
00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:51,880
Speaker 4: got at least forty something out of the sixty. We'll

34
00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:53,960
Speaker 4: see if we can pick from there. So it was

35
00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,880
Speaker 4: it was definitely a lot longer than I anticipated. And

36
00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,040
Speaker 4: that was actually my first time at being present. I

37
00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,160
Speaker 4: usually get dismissed before. So after the questioning, I don't

38
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:04,720
Speaker 4: think they liked the fact that I said I was

39
00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:05,640
Speaker 4: on a podcast for.

40
00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:06,720
Speaker 3: Into social feminism.

41
00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:14,440
Speaker 2: No immediate dismissal, immediate, right, So what else did they ask?

42
00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:16,919
Speaker 4: You asked me about that? It was really kind of

43
00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,120
Speaker 4: funny because you know how they ask about jobs. They're

44
00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,560
Speaker 4: like podcast, you know, with like kind of a doubt,

45
00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:24,280
Speaker 4: And I was like, yeah, I understand, it's a job,

46
00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,639
Speaker 4: I promise, But I had experienced as a social worker

47
00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,440
Speaker 4: in like the Department of General Justice as well as

48
00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,079
Speaker 4: investigating the abuse.

49
00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,240
Speaker 3: So they were like, yeah, all of that, we're just.

50
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:40,560
Speaker 2: Going to go no unless oh boy, oh no. The

51
00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,320
Speaker 2: prosecutor was extremely smart, I want to put you on

52
00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:45,239
Speaker 2: the jury.

53
00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:47,960
Speaker 3: I don't know if they argued about me.

54
00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:53,520
Speaker 2: There was a lot of I bet you they did. Yeah. Yeah.

55
00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,400
Speaker 2: What was the racial makeup of the people who showed

56
00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:57,400
Speaker 2: up for jury duty.

57
00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,359
Speaker 4: It was actually pretty mixed in race, because I think

58
00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,480
Speaker 4: there was like the least amount was Asian people and

59
00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,520
Speaker 4: Latina people, but there was a lot of very heavy

60
00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,200
Speaker 4: like black community base, especially in that area, as well

61
00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:16,200
Speaker 4: as white. So essentially I think it's good more more

62
00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:20,600
Speaker 4: black community than any other demographic. Yeah, decatury kind of

63
00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,680
Speaker 4: it kind of hits that way, right. But yeah, and

64
00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,000
Speaker 4: I see what you're doing. I see you're questioning me

65
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,480
Speaker 4: and using your interview skills over here. This is not

66
00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,200
Speaker 4: this is not this episode, ma'am.

67
00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:30,959
Speaker 3: No, ma'am.

68
00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,840
Speaker 2: It's just jurors are fascinating.

69
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,080
Speaker 3: They are. You're right, it was. It was interesting.

70
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:37,520
Speaker 4: I was kind of both of those, like, I don't

71
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,000
Speaker 4: have time for this, and the thought of being on

72
00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,080
Speaker 4: this type of trial really makes me a little anxious,

73
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:43,840
Speaker 4: So I didn't want to be on it, But at

74
00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,480
Speaker 4: the same time, I'm still curious and I kind of

75
00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,600
Speaker 4: want to know how that played out, and especially knowing

76
00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:51,520
Speaker 4: the jurors, like we had enough time to all talk

77
00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,560
Speaker 4: about our thoughts, and I was.

78
00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,480
Speaker 3: Like, Oh, this is going to be an interesting makeup.

79
00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,600
Speaker 2: I'm interested in jurors. Of course, because we before first

80
00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:06,280
Speaker 2: trial against Donald Trump, we had something called mock jury's.

81
00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,880
Speaker 2: Oh really, this is jury X is a big, big

82
00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,760
Speaker 2: cases where a lot is at stake, And there was

83
00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,040
Speaker 2: a lot at stake because I had sued the sitting

84
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:19,640
Speaker 2: president of the United States, right, and so it's my

85
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:25,840
Speaker 2: jories of where you present your arguments to twenty seven

86
00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:32,400
Speaker 2: typical jurors to see if your arguments are working. You know,

87
00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,680
Speaker 2: you don't quite, yeah, you know. So we put on

88
00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,400
Speaker 2: an entire trial in front of twenty seven typical New

89
00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,360
Speaker 2: York is in a big ballroom in downtown New York.

90
00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:51,840
Speaker 2: We put on witnesses, we had videotapes, we had someone representing,

91
00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:58,280
Speaker 2: We had Donald Trump represented by one of our lawyers

92
00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:04,400
Speaker 2: who played Joe Talker Big Oh, the great criminal defense lawyer.

93
00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,279
Speaker 2: And the case went. We thought the arguments were brilliant,

94
00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:13,839
Speaker 2: and then the twenty seven typical New York jerors met

95
00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:18,120
Speaker 2: to discuss the cases, and they were divided into three

96
00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:22,880
Speaker 2: of nine each. And here's what they decided. They all

97
00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:27,520
Speaker 2: agreed that, yes, two people could end up in a

98
00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:32,719
Speaker 2: dressing room in Bergdorf Goodman. Yes, and yes, they agreed

99
00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:38,400
Speaker 2: that two people could involve involve themselves in something sexual

100
00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,599
Speaker 2: in a dressing room in Bergdorf Goodman in nineteen ninety six.

101
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,040
Speaker 2: And they agreed that the two people in the dressing

102
00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,880
Speaker 2: room and Bergdorf Goodman were Donald Trump and EJ. And Carroll.

103
00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:58,720
Speaker 2: But what they all thought was that I was begging

104
00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:05,920
Speaker 2: him for it, all of them pretty much, Wow, pretty much,

105
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,440
Speaker 2: all the men pretty much Now it was that it

106
00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,080
Speaker 2: was because I was They saw me on videotape and

107
00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,200
Speaker 2: a deposition I was too old, too dissiccated, too much

108
00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:21,080
Speaker 2: of an old crone that they couldn't imagine what it

109
00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,400
Speaker 2: was like in nineteen ninety six. Sequence is, So then

110
00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,880
Speaker 2: we had to redo my hair like it was in

111
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,640
Speaker 2: ninety six, to the makeup like it was in ninety six.

112
00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,200
Speaker 2: I wore clothes that I actually owned and wore in

113
00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,920
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six. And so that's what we did. And

114
00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:39,640
Speaker 2: we found out our arguments were way off. We thought

115
00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:43,560
Speaker 2: we were doing a case for all women, right, We thought,

116
00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,240
Speaker 2: you know this is going to be where this is.

117
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:52,560
Speaker 2: You know, powerful men may not always be believed perhaps

118
00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,120
Speaker 2: a woman has a story. Oh no, uh uh no.

119
00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,000
Speaker 2: The gender divide is as strong as ever in this country.

120
00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:04,760
Speaker 2: We found out. And Robbie Kaplan, the great you know,

121
00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,760
Speaker 2: legal mind of her generation, my attorney said, from now on,

122
00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,840
Speaker 2: this case is not for all a woman, Jean, this

123
00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:18,360
Speaker 2: case is about you and Donald Trump. And he lied, right.

124
00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,520
Speaker 2: So that's why I'm so fascinated with Jerry's Yeah, that

125
00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,320
Speaker 2: makes a lot of sense. I mean, I mean, isn't

126
00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:27,760
Speaker 2: It's just fascinated.

127
00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:28,480
Speaker 3: It is.

128
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,200
Speaker 2: We had the best case of the world. They didn't.

129
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,960
Speaker 2: They didn't see it because I'm too old, too old,

130
00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:35,600
Speaker 2: too ugly.

131
00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,000
Speaker 4: So yeah, and you did an amazing job in opening

132
00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:44,720
Speaker 4: this because yes, you essentially had that as an introduction

133
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,520
Speaker 4: for this amazing book before we start, because we did

134
00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,679
Speaker 4: mention who you were and what we're specifically talking about today.

135
00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,320
Speaker 3: But and I think people you really don't need that

136
00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:55,120
Speaker 3: big of an introduction.

137
00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,280
Speaker 4: The minute I saw your name in our email, I

138
00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,560
Speaker 4: was like, yes, yes, yes, we need to talk to

139
00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,040
Speaker 4: her and me, But can you introduce yourself to our

140
00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:04,520
Speaker 4: listeners just in case?

141
00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:10,800
Speaker 2: Well, how do you do? How do you do? I'm

142
00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:16,600
Speaker 2: Eg and Carol. I'm a journalist, the journalist for fifty years.

143
00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,960
Speaker 2: I was an advice columnist for Elle for twenty seven years,

144
00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,960
Speaker 2: and I've led a really fascinating, wonderful and incredible life.

145
00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:33,400
Speaker 2: I was missed cheerleader USA, and I happen to suit well, okay,

146
00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:38,360
Speaker 2: I happen to be the only person on the planet

147
00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,920
Speaker 2: to have beaten Donald Trump twice.

148
00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:50,360
Speaker 3: The balloons are amazing. I'm so in love with that, guest.

149
00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,800
Speaker 1: Listeners, there balloons happening in the back ground.

150
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,439
Speaker 4: Oh, there's so much to your life story that I

151
00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:00,280
Speaker 4: really there's so many things that we could talk about,

152
00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,160
Speaker 4: and I really hope we can be friends enough that

153
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,600
Speaker 4: you want to come on to our show again so

154
00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,440
Speaker 4: that we can have a deep dive about your life

155
00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,040
Speaker 4: and all the things that you've experienced just alone and

156
00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,920
Speaker 4: like your vice columns, and because you were kind of

157
00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,320
Speaker 4: the beginning with the many others to like talk about

158
00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,120
Speaker 4: what it is to have a call based on people

159
00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,400
Speaker 4: asking you for your advice. You talk about therapists asking

160
00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,240
Speaker 4: you for your advice, So we want to have you

161
00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,600
Speaker 4: on for so much more. So please, if you have

162
00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:28,640
Speaker 4: any free time and you want to hang out with

163
00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,000
Speaker 4: two lonely girls in the South, we need to come

164
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:32,720
Speaker 4: back on for more.

165
00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:38,560
Speaker 2: But now, why, why would anybody want to come on

166
00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,360
Speaker 2: the show of two women who have decided to do

167
00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,640
Speaker 2: a podcast every single day of the week.

168
00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:47,400
Speaker 3: Who are you?

169
00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:52,040
Speaker 2: Why would you do every day? That's a great question,

170
00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:53,160
Speaker 2: that is true.

171
00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,600
Speaker 1: One must ponder that before accepting our offer.

172
00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,079
Speaker 3: Wow, do you fill one of the spaces up again?

173
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:07,400
Speaker 2: It's amazing. It's a huge accomplishment. Then people get addicted

174
00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,440
Speaker 2: to you and then they've got to hear it. You know,

175
00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:14,360
Speaker 2: you become part of their day. So that's in a

176
00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,360
Speaker 2: way very wise, very yeah, you.

177
00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:18,840
Speaker 3: Know, kind of like the whole jury divide.

178
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,360
Speaker 4: I think there's a love and hate for us.

179
00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,240
Speaker 2: Let me ask you, do you run out of things

180
00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,520
Speaker 2: to say? We have yet?

181
00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think with the way in the state

182
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,120
Speaker 4: of the world, Oh, there's other things. At least we

183
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,480
Speaker 4: can update because we have to constantly update because of

184
00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,560
Speaker 4: the way things have changed so quickly, and as long

185
00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,480
Speaker 4: as we have the freedom to do so, we will.

186
00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,079
Speaker 3: Much like having you on the show, which we are

187
00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,360
Speaker 3: so privileged to have you on this show. But yeah,

188
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,080
Speaker 3: like right now.

189
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,319
Speaker 4: We have to kind of go into the darkness, if

190
00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,719
Speaker 4: you will. But there's plenty there in that darkness. I

191
00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:03,760
Speaker 4: don't want a hard time and trying to find the

192
00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:05,520
Speaker 4: optimistic point of view.

193
00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,040
Speaker 2: So it must be amazing that you had to really

194
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,160
Speaker 2: start turning towards the dark because I know you two

195
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 2: don't necessarily that's not your life vision. No, no, no,

196
00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:16,839
Speaker 2: it's not.

197
00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,200
Speaker 1: I've been doing this. I've been on this podcast either

198
00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,160
Speaker 1: as a producer or editor since twenty ten.

199
00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:28,680
Speaker 2: Way minute, I didn't start as a host.

200
00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:32,000
Speaker 1: Until like, I think twenty eighteen, Wow, but I was producing, editing,

201
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:36,960
Speaker 1: and so seeing like the timeline of how things have

202
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,520
Speaker 1: changed in this space has been really really.

203
00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:48,880
Speaker 2: Wild, particularly the road that women have taken since twenty ten. Yes, yes, indeed.

204
00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,240
Speaker 1: Well, one thing we wanted to talk about before we

205
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,920
Speaker 1: get into your book more in depth is that you

206
00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:01,840
Speaker 1: do have this really varied writing career for SNL. You're

207
00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:06,160
Speaker 1: a contributing editor for Playboy, the Advice column ask Egene,

208
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,679
Speaker 1: numerous books. You've had a lot of adventures doing it.

209
00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:10,840
Speaker 1: How did you get into writing?

210
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:17,240
Speaker 2: H When I was twelve, I sent off my first

211
00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:21,120
Speaker 2: pitch letter to the series of Robot catalogs. I had

212
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:25,600
Speaker 2: an idea for a story. I just I was raised

213
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,000
Speaker 2: in a house full of magazines. One of the high

214
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:34,800
Speaker 2: points in my childhood was my father coming home waving

215
00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:44,400
Speaker 2: Time magazine and saying, they've published my letter in Time Magazine.

216
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,199
Speaker 2: And the whole street where we lived was like, Oh

217
00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,520
Speaker 2: my god, Tom Carrol's got his letter publishing Time Magazine.

218
00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,840
Speaker 2: So I thought, wow, this is pretty exciting being in

219
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,480
Speaker 2: a magazine, right, So that's sort of what I wanted

220
00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:06,200
Speaker 2: to do. And I spent twenty five years after pitching

221
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,520
Speaker 2: the series in Roebuck Caalog at d Asy Joe, took

222
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,960
Speaker 2: me twenty five years to get in my first magazine.

223
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:19,160
Speaker 2: Twenty five years. Can you imagine the hideous ambition drive

224
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,600
Speaker 2: lust to be a magazine that would drive some poor

225
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:28,000
Speaker 2: woman twenty five years through no, no, no, no, the

226
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,400
Speaker 2: blizzard of nos from New York editor. I never got

227
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:37,240
Speaker 2: a yes. I never got a yes. And then in Esquire,

228
00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:44,959
Speaker 2: a woman named Marilyn Johnson picked my poor Manila envelope

229
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,280
Speaker 2: off the top of their slush pile. And Esquire at

230
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:54,439
Speaker 2: the time was the just the most brilliant literary magazine

231
00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:58,920
Speaker 2: in the country, and their slushpile. I have pictures of

232
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,040
Speaker 2: were five and six feet tall. That's how tall they're

233
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,080
Speaker 2: sus strong and she having to pick it off and

234
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,120
Speaker 2: she called me and they accepted it. So that's all

235
00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:11,200
Speaker 2: I needed to get in, you know, Once I was in,

236
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:17,160
Speaker 2: You know, once you're in, you're in. And I got

237
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:21,680
Speaker 2: my big size of loving shoe in that Esquire door,

238
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:23,080
Speaker 2: and that's all I needed.

239
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,280
Speaker 3: I love that. Like, there's so many questions.

240
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:28,400
Speaker 4: I have a feeling this is going to be a

241
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,080
Speaker 4: long interview because every time you kept give us like

242
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,160
Speaker 4: such great storytelling information, I have like more questions that

243
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,840
Speaker 4: come off of that. So so hopefully we can get

244
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:39,200
Speaker 4: through this from the hour.

245
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,160
Speaker 3: A lot it to us. If not, I'm telling you

246
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:42,760
Speaker 3: we want you to come back. But all of that

247
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,080
Speaker 3: to say, how did you deal? What's twenty five? What

248
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:47,280
Speaker 3: made you keep going?

249
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:48,360
Speaker 2: Within?

250
00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,960
Speaker 4: Like having twenty five years of a projection? Because I'm

251
00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:52,600
Speaker 4: one of those that, like you hurt my feelings, I

252
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,800
Speaker 4: might just leave that life be enough for me of

253
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,800
Speaker 4: a rejection, but you pushed through and that's a dedication

254
00:14:58,920 --> 00:14:59,560
Speaker 4: in itself.

255
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,800
Speaker 3: How what made you keep going.

256
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:07,040
Speaker 2: The glamorous life of a magazine writer was is almost

257
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,720
Speaker 2: unimanageable today. To work for a magazine meant you had

258
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:16,160
Speaker 2: the ticket. They would send you anywhere in the world

259
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,320
Speaker 2: to write about people you had never met, would never

260
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,680
Speaker 2: see again, about some subjects you knew nothing about, and

261
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,800
Speaker 2: they would send you away and you would get it

262
00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:31,840
Speaker 2: was the life was so adventuresome and so glamorous that

263
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:37,000
Speaker 2: I couldn't help but want to just be right in

264
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,360
Speaker 2: the middle of everything. And it turned out to be true.

265
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,760
Speaker 2: It turned out to be it turned out. I mean,

266
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,320
Speaker 2: I mean the off days in you know, the eighties,

267
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:54,200
Speaker 2: at the peak of magazine Glamour, running down the boulevards

268
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,800
Speaker 2: at three point thirty in the morning, you know, getting

269
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 2: eating a French onion soup at four in the morning,

270
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,600
Speaker 2: you know, just going just it's just you just banging

271
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,920
Speaker 2: on life. It's ship ringing every bell. And there are

272
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:12,000
Speaker 2: several books out right now about the Glamour's eighties magazine,

273
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:17,800
Speaker 2: the Graydon Carter biography, there's one now about Condie ask

274
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:24,400
Speaker 2: coming out. But it really was. It was romantic and uh,

275
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:30,800
Speaker 2: you know it was. It was a stupendous stupendous Unfortunately

276
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,160
Speaker 2: Now do you know what our new magazines are. Our

277
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:39,000
Speaker 2: new magazines are now podcasts. That's what the new magazines are.

278
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:43,360
Speaker 2: That's it that the podcasts have taken over. Well, I

279
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,040
Speaker 2: think it's pretty cool. I think it's pretty cool.

280
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,000
Speaker 3: So interesting format.

281
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:50,960
Speaker 4: I will say for sure I want the Glamorers part

282
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,000
Speaker 4: because I think your life story, your career story.

283
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,080
Speaker 3: Where's your HBO series? You need one.

284
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,240
Speaker 4: You need it just to tell the people out there

285
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:02,600
Speaker 4: and if someone does pick it up, I want I

286
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:03,400
Speaker 4: want a personage.

287
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:03,760
Speaker 2: I need it.

288
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:04,760
Speaker 3: I need here.

289
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:07,240
Speaker 2: Thank you. That's smart.

290
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,600
Speaker 3: That's smart. I'm there, my name, I'll here, y'all.

291
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,120
Speaker 4: Okay again, Like I said, I have a feeling we're

292
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,040
Speaker 4: going to have so much to talk about, and I'm

293
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:27,600
Speaker 4: going to try to focus.

294
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,600
Speaker 3: I promise, I'm going to try to focus in.

295
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,760
Speaker 4: Your book, not my type one woman versus a President, which,

296
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,800
Speaker 4: by the way, what a title delves into your two

297
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,480
Speaker 4: lawsuits against Donald Trump. So before we get into the specifics,

298
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,919
Speaker 4: could you break down the lawsuits so we and the

299
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,400
Speaker 4: audience are all on the same page. Annoying, especially what

300
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,280
Speaker 4: you thought of with the lawsuit and everything else.

301
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:50,600
Speaker 3: Could you break that down for us?

302
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:55,960
Speaker 2: Very simple in nineteen ninety six, Donald Trump and I

303
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,159
Speaker 2: ran into each other in front of Bergdorf Goodman. Burgdorf

304
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,480
Speaker 2: Goodman is a luxury department. It's not a department store.

305
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,120
Speaker 2: It's a specialty shore. It's like no other store on

306
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,800
Speaker 2: the base of the earth. It's a mansion at seven floors,

307
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,080
Speaker 2: and it's just brillant. He asked me to help him

308
00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:18,560
Speaker 2: find a gift for a friend. I was delighted. That

309
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:24,359
Speaker 2: was my job. That's my business. I advise people. So

310
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:30,480
Speaker 2: it turned very dark when we got to the sixth floor,

311
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:37,240
Speaker 2: and it was so bad that I stayed silent about

312
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:45,040
Speaker 2: it for almost thirty years. And then the Weinstein story

313
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,640
Speaker 2: hit the cover of the New York Times, remember that,

314
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:55,199
Speaker 2: and the waves of women standing up and telling their story.

315
00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:01,960
Speaker 2: I just said, well, I am the biggest hypocrite of

316
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:07,760
Speaker 2: all time. God damn it. That's seventy game five. I'm

317
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,560
Speaker 2: not going to be silent any longer. And I told

318
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,639
Speaker 2: my story. He when it hit. It was on the

319
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:21,359
Speaker 2: cover of New York magazine when it hit for three

320
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,960
Speaker 2: straight days from the White House. He called me a liar,

321
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,520
Speaker 2: and he said I was a liar twenty six different times.

322
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 2: I knew there would be a ruckus I had. I

323
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 2: was no, I was not at all prepared for what

324
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:40,200
Speaker 2: for that? And at a party at Molly Jong Fast,

325
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,399
Speaker 2: who you should also have on your podcast. She just

326
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,560
Speaker 2: wrote a great book about her mother. I ran into

327
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:51,760
Speaker 2: George Conway, of all people, and George was the first

328
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:59,919
Speaker 2: person to actually tell me about possibly something called a lawsuit.

329
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,919
Speaker 2: George was, of course as a famous lawyer in his

330
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 2: own right. He went to he was, you know, five

331
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,679
Speaker 2: bigger capitin from Harvard. He went to Yale Law School,

332
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,560
Speaker 2: he started the Lincoln Project, and he explained to me

333
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,440
Speaker 2: what a lawsuit is. Nobody'd ever really taken the time,

334
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,119
Speaker 2: and he said, actually he wrote a piece about it

335
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:27,959
Speaker 2: in the Washington Post that George was a famous Republican

336
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,960
Speaker 2: by the time at the party, he had written a

337
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 2: big op ed in the Washington Post to his fellow

338
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:42,840
Speaker 2: Republicans saying, if you believe Jannita Broaderick, remember why Nita

339
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,400
Speaker 2: Brodrick is a woman who claimed that President Clinton had

340
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,439
Speaker 2: raped her. So George's op ed piece was, if you

341
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,639
Speaker 2: believe Jannita Broadrick, you gotta believe Egene Caroll because she

342
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,439
Speaker 2: has a better case, a stronger case. So I went

343
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 2: over to think and then that's when he explained that

344
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:12,920
Speaker 2: I had a lawsuit, and it was I never thought

345
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,200
Speaker 2: of lawsuits. I was not thinking of loss of Other

346
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 2: people are saying are you going to sue? Are you

347
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,160
Speaker 2: going to sue? And I it would just it would

348
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 2: not mean anything because I didn't even know what that meant.

349
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 2: So he said, and I may be able to help.

350
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 2: Think of someone to help you. And the next day

351
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:37,399
Speaker 2: here's an email saying introductory email and there were two

352
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:44,880
Speaker 2: words Robbie kaplan. It was like a bomb going off,

353
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 2: because you know, Robbie at that time was just trouncing

354
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 2: the Nazis in Charlottesville. She'd open the way to gay

355
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 2: rights in America with windsor she was really, she really

356
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,920
Speaker 2: is one of the great legal minds is ever practice

357
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 2: law in the whole United States. So we met two

358
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 2: days later and that was it. I knew the minute

359
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 2: I shook her hand that this is what I wanted

360
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 2: to do. So we sued him for defamation. We sued

361
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:19,439
Speaker 2: the sitting president for defamation. That started a long trip

362
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 2: and suit him for defamation. He asked the DOJ to

363
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 2: step in and to pay his legal bills and represented

364
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 2: him well. That case was stopped. A second case, I

365
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 2: sued him again for sexual abuse because New York State

366
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 2: passed something called the Adult Survivors Act. So then midnight

367
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 2: on Thanksgiving I sued him again for sexual assault. So

368
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 2: now we have two suits. Okay, the one with sexual

369
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 2: assault and defamation went first. That we won unanimous juror

370
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 2: said Trump was liable for sexual abuse and defamation. We

371
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 2: totally won that. Two days later, after we won, Trump

372
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 2: went on the CNN town hall and re said and

373
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 2: redid everything. He had just paid me five million dollars

374
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 2: because he said in the person. So I sued him

375
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 2: again and that became. That was added to the first suit.

376
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 2: So the second trial was only about damages. We had

377
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 2: proved there was sexual assault, so we didn't need what now.

378
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 2: It was about damage done to me. And that was

379
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 2: the big trial, and he misbehaved every single It was

380
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 2: wonderful just to see him in court. Oh my god,

381
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 2: the apercot makeup, the hair done up like Barbara Stanwick

382
00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 2: in bull Offire, I mean, the antics. It was an fretto.

383
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,920
Speaker 2: It was just after each day's trial he would go

384
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 2: out and say, this is a travesty of judgment. I deserve.

385
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 2: I deserve the damage she hurt me. Why you know why? Why? So?

386
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 2: So that was the second trial, and that one we won.

387
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 2: And he's being made to pay eighty three point three

388
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 2: million dollars for his lives and the damage he did

389
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 2: to me because he killed my reputation.

390
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 4: He just killed it, right, And I know just last

391
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 4: month he lost the appeal to that, which is even

392
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 4: more glorious to.

393
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 2: No, he always loses the appeals. He loses every single aval.

394
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 2: He must be exhausted from losing. I mean he must.

395
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 2: He just must see Robbie Caplan's face and just fake

396
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 2: from bear because he cannot. He cannot win this case.

397
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 2: He cannot win it. He's exhausted the appeals on the

398
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 2: first truck, the five million dollars draft, he's lost all that.

399
00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 2: The only thing he can do now is go to

400
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court. He has sixty days to go and

401
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 2: he hasn't gone yet, So I don't know what he's

402
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 2: I don't think. Well, wait a minute, Annie Samanthy, what

403
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 2: do you think do you think this Supreme Court is

404
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 2: going to want to hear a case where the President

405
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 2: of the United States, who they all apparently worship, sexual

406
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 2: abuse of women. Do do you think they want to

407
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 2: hear that case?

408
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 4: I want to hear, yeah, I mean would they hear

409
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:34,640
Speaker 4: I don't because there's too much.

410
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 3: I don't Trump, You're trying to get me in trouble.

411
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 3: There's a lot to be said that this Supreme Court,

412
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 3: especially the way is stacked, is there purposely and for

413
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 3: a reason, and it's for Trump's advantage. So I think,

414
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 3: like I would hesitate saying that, I don't think they

415
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 3: would want to hear it, but I don't think they

416
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 3: would completely dismiss it. So who knows. Who knows? Because

417
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 3: also we're not legal. I'm not a legal person, so.

418
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 2: That you know, but you're but you're a highly intelligent person.

419
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 2: It doesn't make sense that during these Epstein days that

420
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 2: they would hear anything.

421
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 4: And that's the other question to that is if he

422
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 4: does well that open it up, because you mentioned that

423
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 4: in your book and about the fact that you had

424
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 4: that as like in your back pocket. That could be

425
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 4: like if he was smart about it, I would think

426
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 4: that he especially because he's I feel like he's done

427
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 4: everything he can try to suppress that information. So this

428
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 4: seems like if you were But then again, I don't

429
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 4: know the level of intelligence.

430
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 3: I don't kindly that I'm good.

431
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,400
Speaker 2: Trouble well, maybe that the level of intelligences they may

432
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 2: want to help him when right.

433
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 4: Right, Well, also, like I said, the level of touches

434
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 4: are like, this may give you an avenue to open

435
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,479
Speaker 4: up all of that moot questions.

436
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 2: About oh it would not yes, exactly, it would not

437
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 2: be smart. Because their own argument, I here, do you

438
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: know what Trump's argument is on this case? Tell me,

439
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 2: oh boy, you're not gonna believe it. You are not

440
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 2: gonna believe it. Trump is saying because one of my witnesses.

441
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 2: Remember I had eleven witnesses at the first trial, which

442
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 2: is unusual because there are usually never any witnesses when

443
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 2: sexual assault takes places. Well, we had eleven witnesses. One

444
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 2: of those witnesses was Jessica Leads and you remember her.

445
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 2: She was the woman who he assaulted on the airplane

446
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty Okay, and he's always denied it, and

447
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 2: there are cases that she should not have been a witness.

448
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 2: Are you ready for this? You better grip your desks.

449
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:01,959
Speaker 2: You got a grip, because I don't want you to

450
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 2: fall to the floor.

451
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 3: Okay.

452
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 2: Their argument is she should not have been allowed to

453
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 2: be a witness because when he assaulted her in nineteen eighty,

454
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 2: assaulting a woman on an airplane was not a crime

455
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty.

456
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 3: A feeling you're gonna say that because in the air Yeah, oh.

457
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: My gosh, I thought it was gonna be that she

458
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: should have had her own case, which is also pretty damy.

459
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 3: I can I feel like that.

460
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 2: That's thinking, that's how that so.

461
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 4: So this is why I say I go back and forth,

462
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 4: like I would say, rationally he should not, but then again,

463
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 4: his ego as well as the fact that yes, he's

464
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 4: he will continue to lose to you in order to

465
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 4: try to win, which is also a thing.

466
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 2: But right now, cool, that's that's I like that. I

467
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 2: like that. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I'm just saying that

468
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 2: there's so much to.

469
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,239
Speaker 4: That that that's like he is one of those and

470
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 4: then his team whatever whatnot.

471
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: He's got the mess lawyers in the country. You know,

472
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 2: he's maybe trying to get more money from Yeah, they

473
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 2: they're all now Alena Habba is now as you know,

474
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 2: attorney general. You know, Joe Takapina goes on to his

475
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 2: attorneys are all okay, Alena Habba Esquire doesn't know Diddley

476
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: squat about the law. Okay, we understand that, we understand that.

477
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 2: But she's brilliant. She's a great politician, mark my words.

478
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: She will be running percentate soon. She is. And she's

479
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 2: got the stuff. She's got beauty, brains, confidence, she can

480
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 2: do it all. She just doesn't know anything about the

481
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 2: law anything.

482
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 4: Uh, you know, it doesn't sound like a requirement needed

483
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 4: for any of those some decisions at this point in time.

484
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's.

485
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: There's a lot of things about Trump's, like people in

486
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: his orbit that I'm like, this is just you want

487
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: someone who looks a certain way and who loves you.

488
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: And so a lot of what I was reading in

489
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: the book I felt was less about the law and

490
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: more that they were trying to play on people's ideas

491
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: about sexual assault or people's ideas like these things they

492
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 1: know have worked, but they're not like actually using a

493
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: good law case, like they're just playing to these ideas

494
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: and the jury. Which one of the things that stuck

495
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: out to me is you do start the book and

496
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: you say, you know, I want you to be as

497
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: discombobulated as I was during this whole process and you

498
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: can just see scripts of the questions you got asked,

499
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: and it was very telling of what they were trying

500
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: to paint, the story they were trying to tell. And

501
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: I think the title you know, not my type. You

502
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: talked about that a little bit more a little bit earlier,

503
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: but that's something we've discussed. We've been very open about

504
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: our own experiences with sexual assaults, and one of the

505
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: things with mine was that the first, one of the

506
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: first things I thought was, no one's going to believe

507
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: me because I'm not pretty enough.

508
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 2: I never believe it.

509
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: And you talk about that in the book where you

510
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: say you wrote, nobody's going to believe an eighty year

511
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: old woman was ever attractive enough to assault. So can

512
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: you talk about that and why you titled the book that.

513
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 2: Well, the title is It's just too delicious because he

514
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 2: was sitting at the what's the famous desk called the

515
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 2: what's his the resolute desk. Yeah, he was sitting at

516
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: the resolute desk when reporters from the Hill ask him

517
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 2: about this assault and he said to the reporters from

518
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: the White House, as President, she's not my type. Okay,

519
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 2: Then missus Robbie Kaplan gets him in a deposition. She's

520
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 2: at Mary Largo and he's on camera and everybody's recording him,

521
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 2: and she gets in to say several times that he

522
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 2: has been shown a photograph of me. She tells him

523
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 2: three times she is about to show him a photograph

524
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 2: of the plaintip e Gen Carrol. She's fair, but she's

525
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 2: like Odesssius. She just lays trap after a trap, and

526
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 2: like the cyclops, poor old Trump is gonna fall in

527
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 2: to most of other things. So, after telling him three

528
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 2: times she's gonna show, she shoves a nice black and

529
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 2: white photo across to him. He's got four people in it.

530
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 2: She says, can you identify the people in this photograph?

531
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 2: Immediately he says, that's John Johnson. Why John Johnson is

532
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: on TV? That's the first person. He's my ex husband,

533
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: great guy. Then he slides past Ivana. He says, I

534
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 2: don't know who that is, and then he points right

535
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 2: at me. He says that's Marla, and Mama said you're

536
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 2: saying that. Mom. He says, yes, yeah, that's my wife.

537
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 2: Then Haba lips in says no, that's Carol, and then

538
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 2: Trump says uh huh, nod and nods, and then he

539
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 2: says about seven seconds later, the photo is blory. The photo,

540
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 2: of course, is as clear as just It's just crystal

541
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 2: and clear. So it was odd. If you see pictures

542
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,959
Speaker 2: of Marla and me from the time we are, it's

543
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 2: difficult to tell us apart. I mean, it's really a

544
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 2: strange thing. So most attorneys at that point would have said, look,

545
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 2: it's over, you've got no case. I mean, that's it.

546
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 2: That's but he of course went on and so the

547
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 2: not my type thing is so he says not my type,

548
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,959
Speaker 2: and then he says, yes, that's smart. So of course

549
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 2: I'm going to title the book not my Type because

550
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 2: he's not my type. He is not my type. And

551
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 2: I don't think he's your type. Anny, I don't think

552
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 2: he's your type. Samantha, I don't think he's our type,

553
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: do you. No, I don't know. We need to hear

554
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 2: from your listeners. We need to hear from listeners. Is

555
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 2: down Trump your type? I don't know, it's down Trump

556
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 2: your tribe. Seriously, I'm a little nauseated.

557
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 3: We can't talk about this in context of its human No.

558
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 2: No, can I just say for the listeners. I have

559
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: them on camera. They're both looking like they're well, I

560
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 2: don't know. They're holding their hands over their mouths. I

561
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: don't know. You're trying to get.

562
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 3: Us in trouble for real, for real?

563
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 2: What you no? Oh my goodness.

564
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: Well okay, so you already talked about your your mock

565
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: jury and like the outcome of that child and how

566
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: it was like, okay, now we have to change our argument.

567
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: As a part of this, you tried to recreate how

568
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 1: you looked at the time. You even hunted down the

569
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: hairstylist who gave.

570
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 2: You the bob.

571
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: You recreated outfits, right, Can you explain why that was

572
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: so important?

573
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 2: I had to give the jury of an echo of

574
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 2: the woman that was attacked in Brodors. They couldn't see

575
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 2: it from me just sitting there. So we had to

576
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 2: create the look, the same look that I had in

577
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six, And so when they held up pictures

578
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 2: of me in nineteen ninety six, they could really put

579
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 2: it together with the woman who was sitting at the

580
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 2: plaintiff's table. Because we were against a force so large

581
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 2: and so powerful, the only thing that could fight that

582
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 2: bors was fact. And that's what that's what we use. Fact.

583
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 2: She is Okay. They could see Okay, there's a dim

584
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: echo of the woman that we're talking about here. That's

585
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 2: what we had to go with.

586
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 4: That's such an odd situation in prepping for our trials

587
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 4: is that you have to play or look the part

588
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 4: in order to be of course, a believed, be even

589
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 4: heard at any point in time into that you have

590
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 4: to go through the most invasive questions that seems nonsensical

591
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 4: half the time, like why are we even talking about this?

592
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 4: My personal life has nothing to do with that specific incident.

593
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 4: And at one point, I know the Trump team asked

594
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 4: you about.

595
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 3: Your lovers, like they needed to go through.

596
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 4: A whole list and even descriptors of people. And by

597
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 4: the way, we just recently had an episode about Zubale Zoo.

598
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 4: So when Ben Vereen came on your list, I was like, wait,

599
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 4: what wait what.

600
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 2: I did?

601
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 4: I was like, I was like, what ben En, I'm

602
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 4: just talking about him anyway, moving on with a wow.

603
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 3: I was just like, it just made me. That made

604
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 3: me my fuck. And you were able to respond with detail.

605
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 4: Unfortunately, because they kept asking you things like all of

606
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 4: that seems so over the top in any like, this

607
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 4: has nothing to do with anything. But with all of that,

608
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 4: a how were you able to go through and honestly

609
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 4: do this type of interview uh with the humor that

610
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 4: you were able to insert into this book, because that

611
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 4: in itself made me die a little bit, just the

612
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 4: thought of having to replay, like tell about my personal

613
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 4: life to talk about a really horrific incident A I'm like,

614
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 4: wait what and then you did it with such finesse

615
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 4: in the book, but also just being able to do

616
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 4: it seemingly respectfully to them and just what it wasn't

617
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 4: like to go through that type of questioning.

618
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 2: Talking about my lovers was one of the most fabulous moments.

619
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 2: I got to enjoy it. I loved it. I love

620
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 2: talking about my lovers. Love it. You want to talk

621
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,240
Speaker 2: about my lovers of Lena Square, let's talk.

622
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 3: About you literally gave the accolades.

623
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:34,320
Speaker 2: I started off with a gold medal, Olympic world record

624
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 2: holding butterfly jam. You know, so it was It was

625
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 2: the one moment in that deposition when I felt I

626
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 2: was flying with happiness, said, lifted the whole room. It

627
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 2: was fantastic. It was just yeah, she asked me questions.

628
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 2: Elena Hobba asked, why asked me questions like that? To

629
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 2: shame me to you million to make me look like

630
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:05,879
Speaker 2: a fluozy, but you know, it made no sense. Why

631
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 2: is she asking me about my lovers when they say

632
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 2: he wasn't even there, when they say it didn't even happen.

633
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: So the minute she's starting to ask me about my lovers,

634
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 2: I know that she knows that she knows he was

635
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 2: there right at Bergvios. So that really the absurdity of

636
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 2: the trump So the book is comic, a high high comedy,

637
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 2: because it's absurd if he wasn't there, why are they

638
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 2: asking me why I didn't scream? Did that make sense?

639
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,959
Speaker 2: Didn't make sense? Is it absurd? Yes? Is it funny? Yes,

640
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 2: it's funny. You know, you don't tear a part of woman,

641
00:40:55,280 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 2: you know, for not screaming when he wasn't there. So yeah,

642
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 2: that's why the book is fine.

643
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 4: Right, And the level of like humor that you do

644
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 4: put in this does kind of also reflecting like the

645
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,720
Speaker 4: moments of seeing what's going on that you can't help

646
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 4: but just laugh about the absurdity of it all. And

647
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 4: that's one of the things that really really push you

648
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 4: about in that moment of like you not realizing the

649
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 4: ill intent that was about to happen, and we like,

650
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 4: we talk about this all the time, and we've gotten

651
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 4: criticized by listeners, by men specifically saying that we as

652
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 4: a host giggle too much because we do talk about

653
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 4: a lot of serious things, and our response is to

654
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 4: kind of laugh at it because we can't do anything else.

655
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 4: It feels like it feels like if we don't laugh

656
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 4: at it, we might fall apart. Or it just feels

657
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 4: like we have to look at the absurdity beyond what's

658
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 4: right in front of us, because if we don't, none

659
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 4: of it would make sense. Not that it makes sense anyway,

660
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,240
Speaker 4: but at least we can find a little like calming

661
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 4: in laughter, which has a lot.

662
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 2: Of keep it up and keep it up, keep it

663
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 2: up there, so one thing that's one of our great weapons. Exactly,

664
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,720
Speaker 2: they don't like to be laughed at. Exactly, Keep laughing, ladies,

665
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 2: keep laughing, go for it. Keep it up. That you're

666
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 2: being criticized as a good sign, that's a good sign.

667
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 2: Do not stop with the giggling, and do not stop

668
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 2: with the laughing, please. It's a show of strength and

669
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 2: confidence that you can laugh, shows that you are not

670
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 2: looking dead, like you know what's happening. Is flattening out

671
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 2: the country. Because if you're laughing, that is a good sign.

672
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 2: It's a sign of strength. Do not stop it, Jesus.

673
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 4: Come on, take this audio clip and put it somewhere

674
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 4: in my like affirmations. But this is this is something

675
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 4: Trump's lawyer made a big deal about, and they tried

676
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 4: to try to use against you that you laughed instead

677
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 4: of screening. Why do you think they focus so much

678
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 4: on that. Maybe you just said it because it is

679
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 4: a strength, But why do you think they focused so

680
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 4: hard hoping that that would discredit you somehow.

681
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 2: Well, they've now set winning back fifty years, fifty years

682
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 2: taking away our rights. So of course their argument is

683
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 2: going to come from the seventeenth century or this fifteenth century,

684
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 2: or from the Bible. Actually they're going to go two

685
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 2: thousand years back, and I better have being screamed or

686
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 2: I'm lying. That is one of the oldest arguments. Actually,

687
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 2: it's in the Bible. So it's just the Republican way

688
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 2: of seeing women. And Joe Tacapino in one of the

689
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 2: great criminal defense lawyers. He got asap Rocky Off, he

690
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 2: got Michael jacksonaw acquitted, he got the Sopranos killer killer off.

691
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 2: He got the guy who bludgeoned Natalie Holloway down in

692
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 2: a rub but got him out of jail for like

693
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 2: nine years. He's one of the great criminal defense lawyers.

694
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 2: Donald Trump of course hires him because Donald Trump Trump

695
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 2: has committed a crime, so criminal defense lawyer. And I

696
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 2: think that Joe Taccapino was smart enough not to do

697
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 2: this old argument because Joe has daughters. Joe knows better.

698
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 2: I think Trump was telling him what to argue. I

699
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 2: think Trump was telling him from what I hear reported

700
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 2: about Trump, you know, telling his a lawyer. Well, actually

701
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 2: I heard him every single day telling Elena Hobbit what

702
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 2: to say, what to do, So I think he must

703
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 2: have done that with Joe Tacopina. And I think that

704
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 2: was Trump's argument. I don't think that was Joe Tacopina's argument.

705
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,240
Speaker 2: I think Joe Tacopina was doing what his client wanted

706
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 2: him to do. U they beat up I mean for

707
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 2: not going to the police. Oh my god, has he

708
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 2: ever met a woman? I mean, a woman knows if

709
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 2: she goes to the police, some man may retaliate. Correct,

710
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 2: the woman may lose her job. Correct, she may not

711
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,959
Speaker 2: be able to feed her family. I mean, that's why

712
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 2: you don't go to the police. There's they want. She

713
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 2: didn't want her family to find out who's the police

714
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 2: will be talking to everybody her life is basically you

715
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,280
Speaker 2: go to the police, forget your life going on ever again.

716
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 2: But if you don't go to the police, if you

717
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 2: stay quiet, no they don't know about it, and your

718
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 2: life can go on. These are the decisions that women

719
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 2: are forced in the making when they're assaulted. It's it's

720
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 2: and then to be banged on for not going to

721
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 2: the police. I just I was amazed at the ignorance.

722
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 2: But it's not ignorance. It's a you of women.

723
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 4: Right right, And it's still in today with like, if

724
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 4: she really was scared, if she really did go through

725
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 4: these things, you would go to the police. In the Yeah,

726
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 4: have you seen the police state? They probably wouldn't even

727
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 4: taken that case. They probably would have just been like, oh,

728
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 4: we'll take care of it and let you walked out.

729
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 4: Like the amount of like question and especially the fact

730
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 4: that it's happening today in nineteen ninety six, what were

731
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:07,839
Speaker 4: you wearing.

732
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 2: What were you doing?

733
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 4: Did you go in with him alone? Just saying that

734
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 4: you were at the store with him would probably be like, no,

735
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 4: you don't have a case, and I would have dismissed it.

736
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 3: There's nothing.

737
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 4: The minute I read those sentences from him, I was angry.

738
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 4: I was like, what the hell are you talking about?

739
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 4: Do you not know about like the amount of cases

740
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:25,919
Speaker 4: that actually never go in front of the court ever

741
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 4: when they are reported.

742
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 2: Oh no, it's only out of a thousand cases. It's

743
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 2: out of a thousand, it's only that go to trial

744
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 2: and the man is convicted. I think out a thousand,

745
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,479
Speaker 2: I think five. Yeah, convicted, I think single digit number

746
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 2: for sure. Yeah. No, it's it's shock.

747
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly exactly, which is which is amazing because we've

748
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 4: had episodes when we talked about Me Too era, like

749
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 4: that's kind of how we started as a duo, talking

750
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,919
Speaker 4: about you know, triggers and trauma warnings and why things

751
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 4: like this, especially in the METWO era, was important. But

752
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 4: we also talked about the importance of civil lawsuits and

753
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,399
Speaker 4: how they are most of the time the only way

754
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 4: to get any justice anyway. In the sexual assault cases,

755
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 4: they're sexual haress.

756
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 2: But nobody has enough money to do the thing.

757
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 3: And they don't even know how to do that. Yeah,

758
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 3: there's so much to that conversation about why.

759
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 4: And then also just in the like ideal of suing

760
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 4: immediately gets pitched as she's a gold digger, she's a

761
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 4: money immediately immediately, but like a case like yours has

762
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 4: changed the trajectory, especially with you being so loud about

763
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:38,879
Speaker 4: how this is about.

764
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 3: Reclaiming my name and how important that is.

765
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 2: Just alone, that was really the only thing, and in

766
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 2: the end it did. It did as Robbie Kaflin figured out,

767
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 2: it would hurt him to give a bunch of money, right,

768
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 2: particularly if we gave the money away to help women exactly.

769
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 4: The fact that he's losing on such a large platform,

770
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,839
Speaker 4: large scale is beautiful to see because it takes more

771
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 4: and more to be like see, no people are understanding

772
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 4: how bad this really was, and the fact that he

773
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 4: can't let it go is also something that shows like

774
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 4: how much of an ego and the sociopathy is.

775
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's impossible for women because difficult to sue a

776
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 2: powerful man because a powerful man will always be believed

777
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 2: over the woman, always, always, in every situation. Then if

778
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 2: she decides to sue him, he will sue her back

779
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 2: for defamation for millions of dollars. Then the woman gets

780
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 2: frightened because she does not have millions of dollars, and

781
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 2: she will you know. It's that's what's that's why this

782
00:48:55,680 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 2: doesn't happen unless you have somebody, unless you run into

783
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 2: George Conway at a party, unless you could you know,

784
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 2: it's really because Donerald Trump and my friend who I

785
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 2: told almost immediately after the attack, Carol Martin, the great

786
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 2: New York's anchor woman who's an icon in New York.

787
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 2: Tacopina beat up on her. Bad. Don't beat up on

788
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 2: Carol Martin. Don't put Carol Martin on the stand. No,

789
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 2: do not do that. Do not put Carol Martin on

790
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 2: the stand. He walked in at anyway, she was a

791
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:43,320
Speaker 2: woman I told almost immediately afterwards, and she said, don't

792
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 2: go to the police. He's got two hundred lawyers. He

793
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 2: will bury you. Yeah, so Tacopina of course had to

794
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 2: ask her all about that. But yeah, it's just that

795
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 2: men had lawyers. Women don't have lawyers. Unless you're Cheryl

796
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 2: Shamburg or somebody. You may have a lawyer or two.

797
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 2: But so it's a hard situation. It's a hard situation.

798
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 2: It is.

799
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: And one of the things that was in the book frustrating.

800
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: But also I think all of us we're living through

801
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 1: this right now, is that it's not a surprise. We've

802
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 1: seen this pattern of behavior with Trump. He pretty much

803
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,879
Speaker 1: told us in the infamous Excess Hollywood tape, like what

804
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 1: kind of person he is? When I was reading your

805
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 1: book and I was like, no, I've heard about that case.

806
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that, Like I was like, oh my gosh,

807
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 1: we know this about him, and it's just it wasn't

808
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 1: enough to prevent him from becoming president twice, and so

809
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 1: it can feel very disheartening. But you did win against him.

810
00:50:55,440 --> 00:51:00,800
Speaker 2: Twice, Like, that's right, that's my baby. How did it feel?

811
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: I know you talked about it in the book, but

812
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 1: how did that feel when you were waiting for the

813
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 1: verdicts and then after you got the.

814
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 2: Verdicts, Well, waiting for the verdicts, I felt sort of

815
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 2: the weight. Well, first of all, it's impossible, but I

816
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 2: feel the weight of all And I know many of

817
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,720
Speaker 2: these are the twenty three, the twenty seven to forty

818
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 2: three women who all have said come forward. It's not

819
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 2: just me, not just the access how I would taking,

820
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 2: it's all the other women who've accused him. So I

821
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 2: felt that, but the waiting, it's impossible to win a

822
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 2: sexual assault case because there's no witnesses. We happen to

823
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 2: have a lot of witnesses. Then we went out, the

824
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 2: jury left. Judge Lewis a Kaplan who should be on

825
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:57,839
Speaker 2: the Sistine Chapel as God himself. One of the most

826
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 2: terrifying men I have ever seen my life. Conservative by

827
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 2: the book Break No Rules. In his courtroom, he and

828
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 2: a line of hobba, oh my god. He actually said,

829
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 2: right before the jury went out, uh, bringing up missus habba,

830
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 2: you are within minutes of going to lock up. Because

831
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 2: she she actually asked him, she said, your honor, I

832
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 2: don't like to be spoken to that way. To Judge

833
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:37,879
Speaker 2: Leuwis anyway. So when the jury goes out and you've

834
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:42,720
Speaker 2: presented your case in the first one, in the first trial,

835
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 2: where we worked so hard and prepared so hard, we

836
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 2: actually presented a very strong case. But Takapina is one

837
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 2: of the great attorneys in the country and very persuasive

838
00:52:53,719 --> 00:53:00,040
Speaker 2: with a jury, very persuisive. However, our jury was not

839
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 2: a Manhattan jury, even though you'll read it a thousand

840
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 2: million times on Twitter, they wanted New York, the Manhattan year. No,

841
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 2: it was an upstate jury full of people from the

842
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,760
Speaker 2: Trump counties. Robbie tried to get one of them taken

843
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 2: off the jury because he was such a follower of

844
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:28,320
Speaker 2: Tim Poole as a conservative who had actually talked about

845
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 2: me several times on his podcast and wanted a liar.

846
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 2: I was on Robbie trying to get Judge Katherln here

847
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 2: again he follows the rule. Judge Kaplan had a private

848
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:44,760
Speaker 2: interview with this jury and said, can you fairly render

849
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 2: a bridiqu in this case? And the man said yes

850
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 2: he could. Judge Caplin says he stays on the jury.

851
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 2: So we really thought we were going to get a

852
00:53:55,480 --> 00:54:01,879
Speaker 2: hung jury. We've got Trumpers on the jury, and we

853
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 2: had exactly the kind of jury that we didn't want.

854
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 2: We had six men, and they're the guys who all

855
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 2: said that she's too ugly in the mock trial, and

856
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 2: we had three women. So it was pretty terrifying. So

857
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:21,800
Speaker 2: we go out at lunchtime. We're in a big, marble,

858
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 2: beautiful room where we were waiting. Your voice echoes gorgeous

859
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 2: is in the Federal Court room, which is the Mother Court.

860
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:35,720
Speaker 2: We're in the mother Court of the United States of America,

861
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 2: the first court that held session even before the Supreme Court.

862
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 2: So it's really it's a historic place. And I'm a

863
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 2: wreck and I keep asking. This team of attorneys is

864
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 2: just brilliant, and I keep asking each one, when do

865
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 2: you think the jury will come back? And it was

866
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 2: obvious that they had eleven questions to answer in this trial,

867
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:07,799
Speaker 2: a loving question. So my team, the entire team, believed

868
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:14,719
Speaker 2: that would take days. And the team was uh, not

869
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 2: only thought it would, they were certain of it because

870
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 2: my team had the team was so brilliant. We had

871
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 2: uh a clerk for just Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. We

872
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 2: had one of the clerks for Justice Kennedy. We had

873
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:36,839
Speaker 2: a clerk for the Who's now clerking was so my ore.

874
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 2: This is the level of the team we had. And

875
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 2: their their thing was Genie's gonna take days. Just go

876
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 2: calm down. So I went into our little witness room.

877
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 2: I was taking a nap and bang the door opens.

878
00:55:56,320 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 2: Ferd Exam, Well, can you imagine I'm nearly had a

879
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 2: heart attack? Days and days is going to take days

880
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 2: and days? I got a loving questions to answer? Are

881
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:13,240
Speaker 2: they have to take days and day you And the

882
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 2: man who opened the door was the Duke of Ferra,

883
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 2: Mike Farra, the great Mike Fharra, who presented our case

884
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:26,279
Speaker 2: so perfectly, and who wrung the jury's heart. Man, he

885
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 2: you know, just banged on them. Because Takaped kept saying,

886
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 2: because I laughed, because I went to a couple of

887
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:38,919
Speaker 2: parties that I couldn't have been sexually saul it. Mike

888
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:44,360
Speaker 2: Farra had lost his wife to cancer, and he said,

889
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 2: when something bad happens in your life, just that mean

890
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 2: you can't go on with your life. You can't go

891
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 2: on and enjoy your life. You can't. You can't can't

892
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 2: go on with your career and go to work. You

893
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:00,320
Speaker 2: can't go on with it. Uh what is this? What

894
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 2: is that what Joe Tacopina is saying. So his final

895
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 2: argument was it was brilliant. So he's one who opens

896
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 2: and he looks frightened to death. And when I saw

897
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 2: that the Duke of Rar looked frightened, I mean I

898
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 2: was seized with terror. So we staggered back in the

899
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 2: courtroom and Judge Katherlin said, had you chosen a leader?

900
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 2: And the woman stands up. One of the three women

901
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 2: so that was a good sign, and the verdict came in.

902
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 2: It was, without a doubt, the happiest moment of my life.

903
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 2: It was you could feel the people in the courtroom

904
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 2: just a sind with joy, and I understand that news

905
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 2: whipped around the world, boom boom, boom. And there was

906
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 2: an off Broadway play in production at the time and

907
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 2: in a very series seen and from what I hear,

908
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 2: and a producer ran out on stage said Carol One,

909
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 2: and everything stopped and the house lights flashed on and off.

910
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 2: That's what it was like in New York. Now, it

911
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 2: was it was impossible. We did it. It was incredible.

912
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 2: And Robbie and I were in the car after the

913
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 2: great win, you know, making our way through the press

914
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,959
Speaker 2: and the white balls and everything. We got in the car.

915
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 2: We went through Chinatown and then up through Soho and

916
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 2: then through the village and Robbie's on her phone just

917
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 2: yacking her brains out, calling everybody she knows, getting congratulations

918
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 2: over there. And I am sitting in the other corner

919
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 2: of the car looking out and I'm thinking, Donald Trump,

920
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 2: this is your town, baby, and I just beat the

921
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 2: bat of you. So it was. It was an incredible

922
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 2: it was incredibly right.

923
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 3: I love that.

924
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 4: I love so much of this, and honestly, one of

925
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 4: the things that we were told that we need to

926
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:22,360
Speaker 4: ask you about why you're fabulous. But honestly, just in

927
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 4: the first ten minutes, I kind of knew why you're fabulous,

928
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 4: just from your book.

929
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 3: I absolutely know why you're fabulous. And I want to.

930
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 4: Like just bathe in your aura because it is fabulous.

931
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 3: Okay, I want that to be noted.

932
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 4: But also you kind of already mentioned this earlier, and

933
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 4: I think it's important because this good closure to this

934
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 4: interview is you were awarded five million in the first

935
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 4: trial and then eighty three point three million in a second.

936
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 4: But as you had eluded, this wasn't for you. It

937
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 4: was for women, It was for the victims. It was

938
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 4: for those who are survivors. Can you kind of talk

939
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 4: about with getting this money, what you're going to do

940
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 4: with it?

941
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 2: Well, I love to talk about it, but it's changing

942
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 2: every day when I think, you know, when I first started,

943
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 2: I thought, well, we'll get women's reproduction right back, that's

944
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 2: how we're going to spend the money. And now every

945
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 2: day there's some sort of tragic development with the immigrants

946
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 2: and with the arts and with everything being taken away

947
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 2: so rapidly. I just don't know what it's just going

948
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:34,240
Speaker 2: to have to We're going have to see, We're going

949
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 2: to have to take a look see where it can

950
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 2: best be spent. What do you think, What do you

951
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 2: think a chunk of it goes to the lawyers? Of course,

952
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:50,240
Speaker 2: of course they deserve it.

953
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that's tricky all. I guess it

954
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: would also depend, as you're saying, we are living in

955
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 1: a very rapidly changing environments, so when you actually get it, yeah,

956
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 1: and looking at where it could be best implemented. But

957
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:13,240
Speaker 1: as you said, like I do love the idea of

958
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 1: giving it to things Trump hates.

959
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 2: That's a very fun if he hates it. If he

960
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:19,560
Speaker 2: hates it, that's what I was going to give it.

961
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 4: I think definitely you got to go for like the

962
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,919
Speaker 4: queer community as well as a reproductive community, as well

963
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 4: as sexual assault survivors, Like those three are a really

964
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 4: good way because obviously those are things that he absolutely have.

965
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 4: That's part of the reason he won with the immigration

966
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 4: as well, Like those are the things he went on,

967
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 4: So going after things that he's trying to disassemble.

968
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 3: Right, I think on the cake.

969
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, particularly when you think that you know the numbers

970
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:48,439
Speaker 2: of women who have been sexual assault in this because

971
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 2: he was so high sky high that people don't even

972
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 2: can't even begin to grasp how many people. I mean,

973
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 2: because number one, the reporting is not that's not accurate.

974
01:01:58,600 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 3: Oh no.

975
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 4: And just recently when we were talking about DEI and

976
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 4: the fact that he's like, oh, this is all DEI.

977
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 4: But the actuality is it actually hurts nonprofits like violence shelters,

978
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 4: sexual assault, assault awareness stuff like those things that people

979
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 4: were like adamantly like, yes, we need to help women

980
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:19,320
Speaker 4: who are in domestic violent situations, we need a god,

981
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 4: but they don't care enough to say that those other

982
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 4: things that they think is happening is actually taking money

983
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:26,640
Speaker 4: away from that.

984
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 3: So stuff like that.

985
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 2: It's definitely so I am. I'm an old lady. I

986
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 2: beat Donald Trump twice. So it makes no sense to

987
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 2: me that the Ivy League universities and the big media

988
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 2: companies and the big corporations are been in the need

989
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 2: of Donald Trump because they're frightened at him, right, I

990
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:57,920
Speaker 2: don't that I don't understand. So what I'm worried about

991
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 2: is if their word this is why people across the

992
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 2: land are being quiet, that aren't moving, aren't standing up,

993
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 2: are raising their voices because he's got everybody bowguarded. Right,

994
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 2: So I'm going back to one of the oldest things mankind.

995
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 2: It's the old old idea older than actually older than mankind.

996
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:34,720
Speaker 2: It's called signaling. When a population is being attacked or oppressed,

997
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 2: there are ways for individuals to signal their support from

998
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:44,400
Speaker 2: one another. Right, we don't have that signal. Mega has

999
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 2: the red hats. We don't have them. So I suggest

1000
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 2: that we all take an item which can picklocks, which

1001
01:03:56,640 --> 01:04:02,920
Speaker 2: can open handcuffs, which when straightened out, becomes a lethal weapon,

1002
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 2: which stands for holding things together and unity. I'm suggesting

1003
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 2: we all start wearing the paper clip as a signal

1004
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 2: of our support for the anti trumpers as against the president.

1005
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 2: I it's very simple. So I we're in this paper clip.

1006
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 2: We all put on a paper clip. We can see

1007
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 2: our sisters and brothers who are also not liking what's

1008
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 2: going on in the country. We don't have the Maga hat,

1009
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 2: but we have this sly, subtle, sneaky and at work.

1010
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:49,400
Speaker 2: If you're going to get in trouble, put it on

1011
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 2: your pantcup or put it on your strap, out of

1012
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 2: your back. What do you think.

1013
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 3: I like it multifunctional, that's going to be.

1014
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 2: Well, Samantha. I want you to start wearing it right

1015
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 2: now and and when you start wearing it, because we

1016
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 2: need influencers to do it, and you too, got a

1017
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 2: lot of influence. So if you will every day put

1018
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:15,760
Speaker 2: on a paper clip. You got one at Holm, you

1019
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 2: probably got one there where you are and behind you.

1020
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 2: I know you've got a paper clip in there somewhere.

1021
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:27,840
Speaker 2: That's the question. It's a mess back there. I'm I

1022
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 2: think the paper clup. We need to recognize each other

1023
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 2: and this is just subtle. You know, we got start

1024
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 2: doing it. I like it, And for your listeners, clip

1025
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 2: it on, babes, clip it on. You know.

1026
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 1: I'm also really mad that Donald Trump ruined red hats.

1027
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, anybody is over.

1028
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:54,400
Speaker 1: Even if even if it doesn't say and I'm like,

1029
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 1: this isn't fair. He shouldn't have gotten to do this.

1030
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 3: You ruined the whole thing. He actually ruined the America flag,

1031
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 3: to be fair.

1032
01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 4: So.

1033
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:06,120
Speaker 2: He's not ruining the paper clip.

1034
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 3: That question.

1035
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:09,480
Speaker 2: This is a big This is a big symbol from

1036
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:12,120
Speaker 2: the World War Two. Yeah, this is what they wore

1037
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:16,360
Speaker 2: to show resistance to the Nazi occupation and wore paper

1038
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 2: clips sell let's do it. Yeah, I like it.

1039
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 4: Okay, Another thing I have to ask you, because you

1040
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 4: do like? What is it about podcasts that you like?

1041
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:29,520
Speaker 4: Because you mentioned it before being a powerful tool? And

1042
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:30,959
Speaker 4: why do you have one?

1043
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 2: St No, No, I'm a good guest, but I'm not

1044
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 2: a host. I don't know.

1045
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:37,920
Speaker 3: You have your whole column that was asked.

1046
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 4: So I think you, I think you need to do

1047
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 4: a podcast.

1048
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 3: People ask you questions. Come on once a week, once

1049
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 3: a week.

1050
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 2: I couldn't. I couldn't.

1051
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:50,680
Speaker 1: You know what you started at the top and you

1052
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 1: were asking those questions.

1053
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 3: You're already there, You're already there.

1054
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:59,240
Speaker 2: I can't know. No, I love the guests. I love

1055
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:03,080
Speaker 2: being a guest. I could not do it. First of all,

1056
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:06,240
Speaker 2: Almost half the questions that I answered in the twenty

1057
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:09,040
Speaker 2: some thirty years of writing an advice I change now.

1058
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 3: They just we could revisit those questions.

1059
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:19,960
Speaker 2: Not me, man, No, no, I'm out of the advice business.

1060
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 2: All I say now is yeah, do it?

1061
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 4: Hey, that might be exactly what we need. That or

1062
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:28,400
Speaker 4: the fabulousness are you telling us yes?

1063
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 3: Do this?

1064
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 4: Do it?

1065
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 3: Joy mankind do it?

1066
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 2: Do it? That's it, that's all. Yeah, that's all we

1067
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 2: need to do.

1068
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good podcast. I'm just there.

1069
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 2: Well, let us know if you decided to do it. Yes, and.

1070
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 1: Always, always, always, we would love to have you back.

1071
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 1: There's so much.

1072
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:53,320
Speaker 2: We'd like to talk about. You guys are a gas

1073
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:56,880
Speaker 2: when you are a delight. Where can the good listeners

1074
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:59,440
Speaker 2: find you? You've got a lot going on, a lot

1075
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 2: of books, a podcast, well, first of all work and

1076
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 2: they find you because they can't find me unless they

1077
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:05,560
Speaker 2: can find you. So where are they finding you?

1078
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 1: That's it. I feel like I've been a kind some

1079
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 1: kind of mind trap question because if they're not listening.

1080
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 2: I know what's happening. I know.

1081
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:21,120
Speaker 1: Well, listeners, you can find EJ. Carrol on a wonderful

1082
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: episode of stuff I've Never told you, which is available

1083
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:24,960
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.

1084
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:27,880
Speaker 2: That's it that you can give me on the bookstore,

1085
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:33,679
Speaker 2: not my type and on substack e Gen Girl subset. Yes,

1086
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 2: the world is on substack. Now are you guys on subseack?

1087
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 2: Not yet? What podcast?

1088
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 3: Every day?

1089
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:45,080
Speaker 2: You literally do not have time to be on substack.

1090
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:46,599
Speaker 2: You don't have time.

1091
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:51,760
Speaker 3: She has two podcasts, So I know that.

1092
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:58,160
Speaker 2: That would crazy and I don't understand it. I'm with you. Well,

1093
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:00,280
Speaker 2: you had to be very good at it, so you

1094
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 2: do what you're good at. That's so do two of them.

1095
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, yeah, you do two of them. That's good.

1096
01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:10,280
Speaker 2: So this is good. So you'll you'll you'll call me anytime,

1097
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:11,880
Speaker 2: please if.

1098
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:13,280
Speaker 4: You give us that invitational Billy, you want to call

1099
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 4: him this month? What about this month? So don't don't

1100
01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:17,600
Speaker 4: open it too high, because I'm gonna need to be

1101
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:18,680
Speaker 4: in your fabulousness.

1102
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,720
Speaker 2: Oh, thank thank you, thank you thing. And also you

1103
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:24,320
Speaker 2: get a fill time you got here on here every day.

1104
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 3: It's more than just that, but yes, true, so much more.

1105
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:34,080
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for

1106
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:34,519
Speaker 1: being here.

1107
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:37,880
Speaker 2: It's been a delight, it's been amazing, it's been fabulous.

1108
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 2: Thank you so again.

1109
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:45,599
Speaker 1: Please go check out Eugene Carol and this book. It's

1110
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:50,000
Speaker 1: it's really really fantastic and her writing style is really wonderful.

1111
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 1: So go check it out. If you would like to

1112
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:55,960
Speaker 1: contact us, you can. You can email us at hello

1113
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 1: at stuff iever told you dot com. You can also

1114
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:00,400
Speaker 1: find us on Blue Sky. I'm also a podcast or

1115
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:02,599
Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never Told You.

1116
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:04,439
Speaker 1: We're us on YouTube and we have a new place

1117
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:08,439
Speaker 1: you can get merch called Cotton Bureau, so check that out,

1118
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:10,559
Speaker 1: and we have a buck you can get where you

1119
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:13,040
Speaker 1: get your books. Thanks as always to our super producer Chustena,

1120
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:14,920
Speaker 1: our executive producer and a contributor.

1121
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:16,679
Speaker 2: Joey, thank you, and thanks to you for listening.

1122
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:18,639
Speaker 1: Stuff I Never Told You is production by Heart Radio.

1123
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:20,120
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check

1124
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:21,960
Speaker 1: out the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts, or if you

1125
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows