WEBVTT - Lena Dunham and Elaine Stritch 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:07.440 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing, 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:12.080 My chance to talk with artists, policymakers, and performers, to 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:16.280 hear their stories. What inspires their creations, what decisions change 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:21.599 their careers, what relationships influenced their work. I'm obsessed with 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:27.960 my mom. I love my mom. Are you the complicated one? Oh? 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:34.959 I think so. My guests today are women whose ambition 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:39.240 and uninhibited talent have disrupted and reimagined what it means 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:43.320 to be a female performer for their respective generations. Lena 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:46.760 Dunham is the creator and star of the HBO series Girls, 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:49.960 which explores the painful struggles of a group of twenty 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:53.680 something women with an often uncomfortable honesty. Except for the 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:55.400 fact that I haven't had sex, I'm like totally not 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:57.560 even a virgin. I think the least VIRGINI virgin over. 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:02.000 Dunham has helped define male strength in part with her 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:06.440 own blend of fearlessness and vulnerability. I just want someone 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:08.680 who wants to hang out all the time and thinks 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:10.280 I'm the best person in the world and wants to 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:15.679 have sex with only me. Women of Elaine Stritchest generation 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:19.040 were expected to behave like the weaker sex. But that 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:23.840 changed when Stritch stepped on stage with unapologetic confidence, and 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:33.000 she's been doing so ever since. Show Why Not, Lena 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:36.160 Dunham's my first guest this hour. I should have dressed 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:38.240 up more for you. It's radio, so don't care. I'll 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:41.760 get good. Perfect and three years ago, Dunham shot a 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:46.040 little budget movie in her parents Manhattan apartment. In tiny furniture, 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:49.360 she played a version of herself, a recent college graduate 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.720 moving back into her childhood bedroom while making plans for 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:55.000 her future. I'm going to be staying in her house. 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:57.880 Last I checked. It's my house too. I have a 0:01:57.880 --> 0:01:59.880 whole bedroom. You used to have a whole bedroom. It's 0:01:59.920 --> 0:02:04.160 my special space now. Dunham was proclaimed a fresh, original voice, 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:08.160 a director with a bright future. Writer director Judd Apataw 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:10.560 was one of those who took notice, and today he 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:14.480 and Dunham executive produced Girls, which she stars in as 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:18.000 Hannah Horvath. Once again, she didn't have to travel far 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:22.200 to find inspiration for her character. I think that Hannah 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:26.480 is someone who I'm very capable of being, who's wounded, 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:29.600 ambitious but doesn't know where to place it. Hannah sort 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:33.040 of the version of myself if I'd had less understanding 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:37.560 parents and sort of less drive to get things done. 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:39.600 And I think who I am as a person who 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:42.440 was always sort of if I had to describe the 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:44.600 war within myself that exists currently, it's sort of the 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:47.920 challenge of trying to reconcile the part of me that 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.200 that always thought I would be, like, you know, a 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:53.000 weird gender and women studies teacher who occasionally showed movies 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.560 at film festivals and hung out in my strange apartment 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.080 that was stacked high with books. Trying to reconcile that 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:00.519 with the part of me that has to like figure 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:03.959 out a cover of Rolling Stone magazine exactly was to 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:05.639 shoot the rolling cover of Rolling Stone magazine, was to 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:07.400 figure out a dress to where that for an event 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:09.480 that everyone seems to be worried about whether or not 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:11.600 the dresses in stores, because it has to be my 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:13.639 own dress. And so I'm dealing with all these sort 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:17.239 of this strange ecosystem and all these weird politics that 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:19.560 I kind of never imagined would happen to me in 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.800 my lifetime. You never imagined, No, you really never imagined it. 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:25.720 I think I my dream situation was that I would 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:28.920 be someone who people thought, oh, she's doing important work 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:32.280 in her own little corner, like a ros Chast cartoon character, 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:37.240 exactly like a ros Chast cartoon character. Or like I 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:39.960 think because I went to pretendious private school, the biggest 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:41.240 dream you would have as you'd be like, I'm going 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:44.320 to be Joan Didion. That was kind of where your 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:46.839 brain was allowed to want maybe Norah from maybe you'll 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.119 make films, but you're not going to be in film exactly, 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:51.040 And I don't think I never was able to. I 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:52.640 think I had a twofold thing about it. One is 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:54.320 that I came from a family of artists, and so 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:55.800 the idea was sort of like you made your work 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:57.160 and then got out of the way of it. Like 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:00.520 part of what was I think I in ernalized the 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:02.920 idea that your work was supposed to speak for you. 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:04.760 You were not supposed to speak for your work. And 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.320 so I think I was self conscious about the idea 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:12.360 of being any self self promoting and although that's not 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:16.800 what acting is, it's it's become that. And then I 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:18.640 also think that I thought, well, there's people who are 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:20.960 professionals who can do this better than me, So I'm 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:23.160 just going to act until I have access to the 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:26.120 people who should be acting. And sometimes I still feel 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:27.960 that way. Sometimes I think, like, you know, I'll do 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:30.840 this a little longer and then Michelle Williams can play 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:34.919 me every day until I die. Something that's really nice 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:38.000 about making the show that isn't that is a comedy 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:40.719 that isn't stuck in any sort of I mean, thirty 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:42.640 Rock was able to bust out of a lot of 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:45.760 network sitcom tropes. But I think one of the biggest 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.520 things that networks prevent, besides curse words and showing your 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:52.359 breasts is development. I think that when you play, I 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:56.440 think so many sitcom characters end up playing the same 0:04:56.560 --> 0:05:02.000 version of themselves in various scenarios. This is the thing 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.960 as God is my judge. This is the thing that 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:08.200 we talked about in the meeting to prep this thing 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:12.039 with you, which was shows I've seen where the protagonist, 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:14.560 male or female, they're going through the same set of 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:16.600 problems in season six that they were in season one. 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:19.840 It's just different lines in different coasters. And with you, 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:23.520 I'm wondering, do you have a Bible on the show? 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:25.320 Do you have an arc in your mind? Not even 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:27.680 on paper, not even approved with your other because you 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:29.640 do this with Judd, correct. I do it with Judd 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:32.600 and a woman named Jenny Connor, who's the other executive producer. 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:36.320 And we have a great little writer's room. But our 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.680 writer's room doesn't really work like. It's not like we 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:40.599 write a script and then all sit together punching it up. 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:42.640 It's much more we sit together at the beginning of 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.040 the season and really talk through It's like a giant 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.719 therapy session where we work out the emotional arc and 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:50.080 then we go to it. And when you work out 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:51.800 that emotional arc, do you think to yourself, are the 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:55.200 things that she's going through? Now? Your character and the 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.400 other characters where you're saying to yourself, and let's make 0:05:57.440 --> 0:05:59.400 sure they're not going through this. There is a growth 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:00.880 a season from now or by the end of the 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:03.719 season completely. And that's why I feel like it's okay 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:05.279 for me to cut my hair, or it's okay for 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:07.080 me to start spinning, or it's okay for me you 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:10.719 know whatever I whatever to change to change, because I 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:12.480 feel as though so much of what this show is 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.000 about is about seeing these girls off into their adulthood. 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.920 Like in my Bible, the ideal finale to the show 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.760 would be a feeling like, you know, they don't have 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:23.280 to have kids, they don't have to have husbands, but 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:24.440 you look at them and you kind of go there 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:26.400 on their way. They're more okay than they were when 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:28.240 they started, or they're less okay, but we have an 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:30.600 understanding what kind of adult we think they're going to be. 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:35.120 So described to me how that works? Because because the 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:39.440 theme here is control and you are, like other brilliant 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.440 comedy writing chicks I've known over the years, you have 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:44.880 this is your show, this is your thing. So how 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:49.080 does it start? How does Whose idea was Girls? Was 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:52.360 it yours? It was mine? Because I made this movie 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:54.200 Tiny Furniture, and I made it, you know, my mom 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.240 and sister starred. We shot it in my mom's house, 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:59.400 my mom and dad's house. We um it was totally 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:02.040 populated with friends, some of whom have made their way 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:04.880 to Girls with me. And what motivated you don't want 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:07.760 to do Tiny Furniture on a practical, real life level. 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.760 I wanted to talk about that moment between college and 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:14.000 adulthood that felt so floundering, and so every day I 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:17.600 felt like I was walking through the strangest, most surreal soup, 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.400 and so I sort of also wanted to capture this 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:23.520 moment where I was, I knew that I wouldn't live 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:26.080 at home forever, that my little sister wouldn't be sort 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:29.680 of seventeen and ambitious but also stuck in her bedroom forever, 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.840 that my mom was sort of looking in this beautiful 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.080 moment where she kind of was I mean, shilled murder 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:36.400 me for saying this, but she looked that kind of 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:40.040 beautiful way where it's like you're not quite old yet 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:41.880 and you just look kind of she just looked kind 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:45.440 of perfect to me, and I just like a great car. Yeah, 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.240 and I just not my mother, so I could say exactly, 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:50.480 and I just thought, I want to capture all of this. 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.160 So you really love your mom. I'm obsessed with my mom. 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:57.120 I love my mom. And then but I'm saying, that's 0:07:57.160 --> 0:07:59.760 interesting that you have that feeling and that's what makes 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:02.200 you survey what's around you. Wouldn't want to capture that 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:05.960 because I find typically people who are not happy, they 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:08.720 gotta wait a while until they can negotiate the pain 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:10.960 to go back and talk about that. It's one of 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:13.200 the biggest things that inspires me to make work is 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:15.520 this feeling of looking around and going, even if you're 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:19.080 not perfect, you're also perfect right now, Let's let's capture 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.200 this and then you know, I'd love the feeling. I 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:23.280 was just watching like Panic in Needle Park last week, 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.560 that movie, which is you know, Kitty Win Katie Gosh, 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:29.880 she's so good. Where did Kitty Win go? Yeah, let 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:32.400 me get that violin out for Kitty Win. She's incredible. 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:34.360 But so I was watching that and I was just 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.000 thinking about how exciting it was to be able to 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.720 watch sort of like al Pacino at that first moment 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:41.439 when he was sort of like he still almost looked 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:43.600 a little adolescent and he was still and he was 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:47.240 learning his craft and just behaving on film. Yeah, and 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:49.880 I just love capturing that. And that's something that I've 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:52.240 tried to do with girls too, is sort of grab 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:54.679 people and go, let's just let's just see you as 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:58.360 you are right now now. So the film did well, 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.840 So then how does girl has happened? So then I 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:03.880 went to l A and kind of did that. I 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:05.760 went like, Okay, I guess what you do next is 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:07.559 get an agent, And I guess what you do next 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.560 is trying to figure out what I mean you're on 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:12.800 the runway. Now, Yes, I was. I was on the runway, 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:14.240 and I was going around l A doing the sort 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:16.240 of what I call the couch and water bottle tour 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.719 of l A, where you meet everybody and have those 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:21.120 kind of general meetings where and remember so funny because 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:23.840 at first I didn't understand that everybody says to you 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:25.240 at the end of the general meeting, oh, I'd love 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:26.560 to find a way to work with you. And so 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.280 I would call my agent afterwards and go, oh my god, 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:30.960 it was amazing, and he said he wants to find 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:32.559 a way to work with me, and many wants you 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:36.040 to come clean his pool. Yeah, basically. And my agent, 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:38.000 who I feel like, you're not supposed to say you 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:39.880 love your agent because it makes you sound really Hollywood. 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:41.840 And of everyone, I love everyone. And also I have 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:44.240 the best agent. He's like really been at it for 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:47.120 a long time. He's like a cigar smoking you know, 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.080 he's what I imagined in Nation. His name is Peter Bennedeck, 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:54.680 Peter Bennedictine now Peter Benedeck, and he smoked cigars. He's 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:58.440 old school. He's old exactly, and he belongs to a 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:00.839 cigar club. Which one does he want? I think it 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:04.840 says it has a Cuban flares. I think it is. 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:06.640 I'm on the board of Grand Event, are you. I 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:09.400 know Peter and I probably have seen him at Grand Eva. Wow. 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.360 He always probably hung out there and smokes gods with him. 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:14.360 When you were still a gleam in your parents you 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:16.880 weren't even around no no no. So so he's your 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:18.880 agent and you love him. I love him. And he 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.400 said to me that I should go for a meeting 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:25.520 an HBO and I did, and I said, well, here's 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:27.040 what I'd want to see, is like a show about 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:29.840 all my girlfriends, like sort of like Tiny Furniture, but 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:31.920 there's more of us and we don't live with our 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:34.200 parents anymore, but it's still about that. It's like it 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.960 was pitched so weekly, like a year after my movie, 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:39.840 but there's more of us and it's a TV show. 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:44.800 So the conversation wasn't coming out of Tiny Furniture in 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.240 the indie and in the festival world had a very 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.840 good buzz. There was no conversation but us going right 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.280 into films and making more films. Normally they're gonna want 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.480 to steer some especially your age was very young. They're 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:56.480 gonna go, let's just keep making movies. Well, you know, 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:59.560 there was a conversation. But I think I picked up 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:01.440 on the fact very early going on the Couch and 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:03.319 Water Bottle tour that the kind of stories that I 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:06.880 wanted to tell we're not really being funded on a 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:10.360 larger scale. And film Tina says that sometimes the Tina 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:12.800 I will just finish work that that that it's it's 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:15.320 it seems like it's more difficult to a to have 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:17.000 the control you want in the film business and be 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.360 to say what you want to say it is. And 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:21.199 the fact is I could have kept saying what I 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:24.760 wanted to say, you know, making movies, but I wanted 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:27.959 It's weird. The reason that I like having some budget 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:30.280 is not because you know, I want to stage car 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:33.280 crashes or I want to have you know, ten makeup 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:37.760 artists on set, although those things but will would be lovely. 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:40.360 But but it's more because of the fact that I 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:42.440 do so many jobs. So it was so exciting to 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.720 not have to worry anymore about answering the doorbell, about 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:49.480 returning the equipment, about making sure that people had the pizza. Also, 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.319 that's going to happen in TV and has money, and 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:54.839 HBO has an HBO is time warnering, but they have money, 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:56.520 but they use it in this amazing model, which is 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.120 that they don't have to answer to advertisers in the 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:03.520 same way. So HBO can sort of fulfill its odd 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:05.840 little interests. And that's what I started out as, and 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:09.280 I what I didn't predict was how much I would 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:12.559 love the opportunity to develop characters in this way and 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:16.840 the kind of the fiber of TV itself now, So 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.520 the template of four women and obviously HBO is no 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:22.920 stranger to the template of four women talking about but 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:25.560 obviously those women were older. And you've been a fan 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.839 of that show, Yes, I think that I can't find 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:31.880 one girl who isn't at least secretly a fan of 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.440 Sex in the City. Who's my age. You know, Sex 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:36.760 one City is a specter that hangs over in a 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:40.880 I mean in a positive way, everything female centric. And 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:42.720 you know, there were so many episodes of Sex City 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.600 and they tackled every area of sexual function and dysfunction 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.760 that there's almost nothing you can pitch that they haven't done. 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:50.560 But I found that the women on Sex in the 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:54.240 City that those women would have things happen, and they 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:57.760 tended to brush off the consequences pretty quickly, whereas the 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:01.320 girls on your show, the tone seems very different. Everybody 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:03.679 seems to almost be doubting what they're doing, or they 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.480 have a kind of a sense of fear or anxiety 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:08.600 about it while they're doing it. It It seems more real. 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:10.760 Was that is that? Was that deliberate in your partner? Well? 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.080 Something I feel about being in your twenties, which is 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:14.480 different than you know. Sex and the City was a 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:18.120 show about women in their thirties who had successful careers prerecession, 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.480 the best, most supportive friends. They didn't have. I mean, 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.160 they had little friend TIFFs. But the characters on our 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.679 show are tortured. It's like, if you ask a in 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:29.760 her twenties, are you a happy person? I think she 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.160 can say I have happy moments, But I don't think 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:35.840 it's possible. Maybe I'm maybe people radically disagree with me, 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:39.360 but I don't really think it's possible to be sort 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:45.280 of an at peace human when you are between twenty 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.280 two and thirty, and so I think there's still I 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:51.040 don't because that's a problem that I mean, for me, 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.080 that's something I've noticed because I'm much older than you. 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.760 And one thing that I I noticed when I went 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.760 to college, which is a long time ago, an interesting 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:02.200 numb of people. They really knew what they wanted to be, 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.079 they weren't quite sure how to get there. That they 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:05.959 had a dream. I want to become a lawyer. I 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:07.760 want to become a doctor. I want to go into politics. 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:10.240 I want to go into and now people today, it 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:12.400 seems like younger people, they really they think they have 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.160 more time to figure it out, returning twenty five, and 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:17.480 they really don't have that picture and focus. Do you agree? 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:19.160 I do agree, And I think a big part of 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.240 it is being I think the world the Internet has 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:25.920 cracked things open in a way that's both beautiful and 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:28.320 that it helps you find. There's so many things that 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:30.200 I never would have even known about, things that have 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:32.520 been huge for me that have existed because of the Internet. 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:35.720 And I think that I've been able to partially, you know, 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:37.680 connect with people who would be fans of the show 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:39.760 because of the Internet. I think, you know, it's always 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.760 exciting when like there's this website called Rookie mag dot 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.080 com that's run by this girl Toavy Jevinson and it's 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:47.560 a like a smart team magazine that exists only on 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:49.600 the Internet. And I just think if when I was 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.480 a teenager there had been that place and that message board, 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:55.440 I would have felt like the world was my oyster 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:59.040 like just meeting other weirdo girls who had the same 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.200 who like, you know whatever. At the time, I just 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:03.680 wanted to talk to someone about Connor Oberst or something 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.920 on the Internet, and that would have been possible. But 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.840 I think now the fact that like the Internet has 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:12.480 created so many strange specialized jobs and so many things 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:15.240 where it's like, you know, I'm a brand consultant, slash 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.680 blog enhancer or whatever people are like suddenly the world 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.520 feels wide open, but there are less jobs available, and 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:26.360 so it's a really confusing moment to make any decisive 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:28.520 choice about what you want to do. It's interesting you 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:30.600 say that the Internet is responsible for that and the 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:33.840 idea of having too many choices then you need wind. 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:36.680 That could also be a metaphor for like men in 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:38.800 their twenties dating. I feel like men in their twenties, 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.120 like I once had dated a guy who told me 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:43.240 that he didn't feel like he could be serious about 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:45.840 anyone in New York because it would be like eating 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:57.640 at the same restaurant every night in New York. In 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:00.920 a minute, I'll talk with Lena Dunham about setting limits. 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:04.560 I don't ever want to like have a makeover scenario 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:07.040 where someone's doing better after they've put on a great 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.840 dress and you know, straight ironed their hair, like I 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:13.720 just I'm Alec Baldwin. And here's the thing. Take a 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:18.800 listen to our archive more in depth conversations with artists, policymakers, 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:22.160 and performers, people like Fred Armis and Billy Joel and 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:26.360 producer Judd Apatow, who talks about Lena Dunham. It's pretty 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.160 amazing to be around someone who is so in their 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:33.040 moment and has so much they want to express. So 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.000 I find it kind of reinvigorates my own writing and 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.880 my own tapping into my thoughts. Take a listen to 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:43.280 more of Apatow's thoughts. And here's the Thing. Dot Org. 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:52.320 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.520 Lena Dunham, creator and star of the HBO series Girls, 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:59.640 is smart and funny. Her character on the show, Hannah 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:03.680 horn Bath, is a mix of intelligence, raising confidence and 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:08.240 crippling self doubt, and while Dunham's comedy is painfully incisive, 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:11.680 it doesn't come from someplace mean. First thing, my dad 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:14.040 is like a Manner's Nazi. So I think that I 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:15.800 grew up feeling like the worst thing you could do 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.280 was offend someone. Could you sit up straight in that chair? 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.640 And your dad told me to say that way? Oh 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:22.080 my god, my dad still tells me to sit up 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.760 straight constantly. I'm going to call it and then And 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:27.800 it's funny because both my my dad is an artist 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:30.840 and he paints these sort of outlandish intense I mean, 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:33.480 he paints things that are pretty pretty sexual images, pretty 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:37.359 aggressive images, you know, a man with I mean, they're funny, 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.919 but they're intense. It's like two men with penises for 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:46.480 noses in a war with guns and knives with three women. 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:48.520 Grew up around and I grew up around it. But 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:50.000 it was what was interesting was that my dad was 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:55.120 sort of like you can do. Dad had penises on 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:57.239 on the stage on his face, on everyone's face, But 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:59.439 you know, you I grew up around it. But I 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:01.159 think that my ad always really showed me that there 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:03.480 was a difference between you know, what your work was 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:05.600 and who you are, and he's so My parents are 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.280 so polite and so sort of they just I think 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:10.640 so much of this. Again, I've never had kids. I've 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:12.760 you know, I forget what I'm saying. But I'm glad 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:14.520 you don't think. I mean, I get too guilty if 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.639 I ever make a mean joke. Appreciate what I'm saying, 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.800 I do, well, I'm terrified. It's one of the reasons 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.600 I don't I don't really feel like a comedy writer 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.639 because there's sort of like a quickness and a harshness, 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:27.640 and you need to have those people in your bullpen there. 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.760 Do you have some more really traditional edgier we do have. 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:32.919 I have a couple of writers on the staff, but 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:36.919 no one on our staff has that particular kind of darkness. 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:39.399 I've been around a lot of those comedy writers, and 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:41.480 you know, there's that feeling of like, even when they're 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:42.920 saying something nice to you, they're kind of trying to 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:46.520 murder you with their eyeballs, and it's it's it becomes 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:49.439 too much salt to the soup exactly. It's impressive to 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.640 me in small doses, but terrifying. My thing is also 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:55.360 I only really make jokes about people I like. Like 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:58.359 when there's a joke that references a celebrity on the show, 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:01.080 it's usually a joke that I making because I have 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:04.879 really taken note of their work and him fascinated by 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:07.199 you slept with them, and you want to get even No, 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:12.159 I don't have that that instinct. Now you're going to 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:14.240 do how many seasons of the show are you signed 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:16.199 on to do? Well? You know, it's not clear. I 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:19.240 mean HBO contractually has me, I think as an actor 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:22.320 for six years, but as a writer, and I wish 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:24.160