Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing,
Speaker 1: My chance to talk with artists, policymakers, and performers, to
Speaker 1: hear their stories. What inspires their creations, what decisions change
Speaker 1: their careers, what relationships influenced their work. I'm obsessed with
Speaker 1: my mom. I love my mom. Are you the complicated one? Oh?
Speaker 1: I think so. My guests today are women whose ambition
Speaker 1: and uninhibited talent have disrupted and reimagined what it means
Speaker 1: to be a female performer for their respective generations. Lena
Speaker 1: Dunham is the creator and star of the HBO series Girls,
Speaker 1: which explores the painful struggles of a group of twenty
Speaker 1: something women with an often uncomfortable honesty. Except for the
Speaker 1: fact that I haven't had sex, I'm like totally not
Speaker 1: even a virgin. I think the least VIRGINI virgin over.
Speaker 1: Dunham has helped define male strength in part with her
Speaker 1: own blend of fearlessness and vulnerability. I just want someone
Speaker 1: who wants to hang out all the time and thinks
Speaker 1: I'm the best person in the world and wants to
Speaker 1: have sex with only me. Women of Elaine Stritchest generation
Speaker 1: were expected to behave like the weaker sex. But that
Speaker 1: changed when Stritch stepped on stage with unapologetic confidence, and
Speaker 1: she's been doing so ever since. Show Why Not, Lena
Speaker 1: Dunham's my first guest this hour. I should have dressed
Speaker 1: up more for you. It's radio, so don't care. I'll
Speaker 1: get good. Perfect and three years ago, Dunham shot a
Speaker 1: little budget movie in her parents Manhattan apartment. In tiny furniture,
Speaker 1: she played a version of herself, a recent college graduate
Speaker 1: moving back into her childhood bedroom while making plans for
Speaker 1: her future. I'm going to be staying in her house.
Speaker 1: Last I checked. It's my house too. I have a
Speaker 1: whole bedroom. You used to have a whole bedroom. It's
Speaker 1: my special space now. Dunham was proclaimed a fresh, original voice,
Speaker 1: a director with a bright future. Writer director Judd Apataw
Speaker 1: was one of those who took notice, and today he
Speaker 1: and Dunham executive produced Girls, which she stars in as
Speaker 1: Hannah Horvath. Once again, she didn't have to travel far
Speaker 1: to find inspiration for her character. I think that Hannah
Speaker 1: is someone who I'm very capable of being, who's wounded,
Speaker 1: ambitious but doesn't know where to place it. Hannah sort
Speaker 1: of the version of myself if I'd had less understanding
Speaker 1: parents and sort of less drive to get things done.
Speaker 1: And I think who I am as a person who
Speaker 1: was always sort of if I had to describe the
Speaker 1: war within myself that exists currently, it's sort of the
Speaker 1: challenge of trying to reconcile the part of me that
Speaker 1: that always thought I would be, like, you know, a
Speaker 1: weird gender and women studies teacher who occasionally showed movies
Speaker 1: at film festivals and hung out in my strange apartment
Speaker 1: that was stacked high with books. Trying to reconcile that
Speaker 1: with the part of me that has to like figure
Speaker 1: out a cover of Rolling Stone magazine exactly was to
Speaker 1: shoot the rolling cover of Rolling Stone magazine, was to
Speaker 1: figure out a dress to where that for an event
Speaker 1: that everyone seems to be worried about whether or not
Speaker 1: the dresses in stores, because it has to be my
Speaker 1: own dress. And so I'm dealing with all these sort
Speaker 1: of this strange ecosystem and all these weird politics that
Speaker 1: I kind of never imagined would happen to me in
Speaker 1: my lifetime. You never imagined, No, you really never imagined it.
Speaker 1: I think I my dream situation was that I would
Speaker 1: be someone who people thought, oh, she's doing important work
Speaker 1: in her own little corner, like a ros Chast cartoon character,
Speaker 1: exactly like a ros Chast cartoon character. Or like I
Speaker 1: think because I went to pretendious private school, the biggest
Speaker 1: dream you would have as you'd be like, I'm going
Speaker 1: to be Joan Didion. That was kind of where your
Speaker 1: brain was allowed to want maybe Norah from maybe you'll
Speaker 1: make films, but you're not going to be in film exactly,
Speaker 1: And I don't think I never was able to. I
Speaker 1: think I had a twofold thing about it. One is
Speaker 1: that I came from a family of artists, and so
Speaker 1: the idea was sort of like you made your work
Speaker 1: and then got out of the way of it. Like
Speaker 1: part of what was I think I in ernalized the
Speaker 1: idea that your work was supposed to speak for you.
Speaker 1: You were not supposed to speak for your work. And
Speaker 1: so I think I was self conscious about the idea
Speaker 1: of being any self self promoting and although that's not
Speaker 1: what acting is, it's it's become that. And then I
Speaker 1: also think that I thought, well, there's people who are
Speaker 1: professionals who can do this better than me, So I'm
Speaker 1: just going to act until I have access to the
Speaker 1: people who should be acting. And sometimes I still feel
Speaker 1: that way. Sometimes I think, like, you know, I'll do
Speaker 1: this a little longer and then Michelle Williams can play
Speaker 1: me every day until I die. Something that's really nice
Speaker 1: about making the show that isn't that is a comedy
Speaker 1: that isn't stuck in any sort of I mean, thirty
Speaker 1: Rock was able to bust out of a lot of
Speaker 1: network sitcom tropes. But I think one of the biggest
Speaker 1: things that networks prevent, besides curse words and showing your
Speaker 1: breasts is development. I think that when you play, I
Speaker 1: think so many sitcom characters end up playing the same
Speaker 1: version of themselves in various scenarios. This is the thing
Speaker 1: as God is my judge. This is the thing that
Speaker 1: we talked about in the meeting to prep this thing
Speaker 1: with you, which was shows I've seen where the protagonist,
Speaker 1: male or female, they're going through the same set of
Speaker 1: problems in season six that they were in season one.
Speaker 1: It's just different lines in different coasters. And with you,
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, do you have a Bible on the show?
Speaker 1: Do you have an arc in your mind? Not even
Speaker 1: on paper, not even approved with your other because you
Speaker 1: do this with Judd, correct. I do it with Judd
Speaker 1: and a woman named Jenny Connor, who's the other executive producer.
Speaker 1: And we have a great little writer's room. But our
Speaker 1: writer's room doesn't really work like. It's not like we
Speaker 1: write a script and then all sit together punching it up.
Speaker 1: It's much more we sit together at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the season and really talk through It's like a giant
Speaker 1: therapy session where we work out the emotional arc and
Speaker 1: then we go to it. And when you work out
Speaker 1: that emotional arc, do you think to yourself, are the
Speaker 1: things that she's going through? Now? Your character and the
Speaker 1: other characters where you're saying to yourself, and let's make
Speaker 1: sure they're not going through this. There is a growth
Speaker 1: a season from now or by the end of the
Speaker 1: season completely. And that's why I feel like it's okay
Speaker 1: for me to cut my hair, or it's okay for
Speaker 1: me to start spinning, or it's okay for me you
Speaker 1: know whatever I whatever to change to change, because I
Speaker 1: feel as though so much of what this show is
Speaker 1: about is about seeing these girls off into their adulthood.
Speaker 1: Like in my Bible, the ideal finale to the show
Speaker 1: would be a feeling like, you know, they don't have
Speaker 1: to have kids, they don't have to have husbands, but
Speaker 1: you look at them and you kind of go there
Speaker 1: on their way. They're more okay than they were when
Speaker 1: they started, or they're less okay, but we have an
Speaker 1: understanding what kind of adult we think they're going to be.
Speaker 1: So described to me how that works? Because because the
Speaker 1: theme here is control and you are, like other brilliant
Speaker 1: comedy writing chicks I've known over the years, you have
Speaker 1: this is your show, this is your thing. So how
Speaker 1: does it start? How does Whose idea was Girls? Was
Speaker 1: it yours? It was mine? Because I made this movie
Speaker 1: Tiny Furniture, and I made it, you know, my mom
Speaker 1: and sister starred. We shot it in my mom's house,
Speaker 1: my mom and dad's house. We um it was totally
Speaker 1: populated with friends, some of whom have made their way
Speaker 1: to Girls with me. And what motivated you don't want
Speaker 1: to do Tiny Furniture on a practical, real life level.
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about that moment between college and
Speaker 1: adulthood that felt so floundering, and so every day I
Speaker 1: felt like I was walking through the strangest, most surreal soup,
Speaker 1: and so I sort of also wanted to capture this
Speaker 1: moment where I was, I knew that I wouldn't live
Speaker 1: at home forever, that my little sister wouldn't be sort
Speaker 1: of seventeen and ambitious but also stuck in her bedroom forever,
Speaker 1: that my mom was sort of looking in this beautiful
Speaker 1: moment where she kind of was I mean, shilled murder
Speaker 1: me for saying this, but she looked that kind of
Speaker 1: beautiful way where it's like you're not quite old yet
Speaker 1: and you just look kind of she just looked kind
Speaker 1: of perfect to me, and I just like a great car. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I just not my mother, so I could say exactly,
Speaker 1: and I just thought, I want to capture all of this.
Speaker 1: So you really love your mom. I'm obsessed with my mom.
Speaker 1: I love my mom. And then but I'm saying, that's
Speaker 1: interesting that you have that feeling and that's what makes
Speaker 1: you survey what's around you. Wouldn't want to capture that
Speaker 1: because I find typically people who are not happy, they
Speaker 1: gotta wait a while until they can negotiate the pain
Speaker 1: to go back and talk about that. It's one of
Speaker 1: the biggest things that inspires me to make work is
Speaker 1: this feeling of looking around and going, even if you're
Speaker 1: not perfect, you're also perfect right now, Let's let's capture
Speaker 1: this and then you know, I'd love the feeling. I
Speaker 1: was just watching like Panic in Needle Park last week,
Speaker 1: that movie, which is you know, Kitty Win Katie Gosh,
Speaker 1: she's so good. Where did Kitty Win go? Yeah, let
Speaker 1: me get that violin out for Kitty Win. She's incredible.
Speaker 1: But so I was watching that and I was just
Speaker 1: thinking about how exciting it was to be able to
Speaker 1: watch sort of like al Pacino at that first moment
Speaker 1: when he was sort of like he still almost looked
Speaker 1: a little adolescent and he was still and he was
Speaker 1: learning his craft and just behaving on film. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I just love capturing that. And that's something that I've
Speaker 1: tried to do with girls too, is sort of grab
Speaker 1: people and go, let's just let's just see you as
Speaker 1: you are right now now. So the film did well,
Speaker 1: So then how does girl has happened? So then I
Speaker 1: went to l A and kind of did that. I
Speaker 1: went like, Okay, I guess what you do next is
Speaker 1: get an agent, And I guess what you do next
Speaker 1: is trying to figure out what I mean you're on
Speaker 1: the runway. Now, Yes, I was. I was on the runway,
Speaker 1: and I was going around l A doing the sort
Speaker 1: of what I call the couch and water bottle tour
Speaker 1: of l A, where you meet everybody and have those
Speaker 1: kind of general meetings where and remember so funny because
Speaker 1: at first I didn't understand that everybody says to you
Speaker 1: at the end of the general meeting, oh, I'd love
Speaker 1: to find a way to work with you. And so
Speaker 1: I would call my agent afterwards and go, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it was amazing, and he said he wants to find
Speaker 1: a way to work with me, and many wants you
Speaker 1: to come clean his pool. Yeah, basically. And my agent,
Speaker 1: who I feel like, you're not supposed to say you
Speaker 1: love your agent because it makes you sound really Hollywood.
Speaker 1: And of everyone, I love everyone. And also I have
Speaker 1: the best agent. He's like really been at it for
Speaker 1: a long time. He's like a cigar smoking you know,
Speaker 1: he's what I imagined in Nation. His name is Peter Bennedeck,
Speaker 1: Peter Bennedictine now Peter Benedeck, and he smoked cigars. He's
Speaker 1: old school. He's old exactly, and he belongs to a
Speaker 1: cigar club. Which one does he want? I think it
Speaker 1: says it has a Cuban flares. I think it is.
Speaker 1: I'm on the board of Grand Event, are you. I
Speaker 1: know Peter and I probably have seen him at Grand Eva. Wow.
Speaker 1: He always probably hung out there and smokes gods with him.
Speaker 1: When you were still a gleam in your parents you
Speaker 1: weren't even around no no no. So so he's your
Speaker 1: agent and you love him. I love him. And he
Speaker 1: said to me that I should go for a meeting
Speaker 1: an HBO and I did, and I said, well, here's
Speaker 1: what I'd want to see, is like a show about
Speaker 1: all my girlfriends, like sort of like Tiny Furniture, but
Speaker 1: there's more of us and we don't live with our
Speaker 1: parents anymore, but it's still about that. It's like it
Speaker 1: was pitched so weekly, like a year after my movie,
Speaker 1: but there's more of us and it's a TV show.
Speaker 1: So the conversation wasn't coming out of Tiny Furniture in
Speaker 1: the indie and in the festival world had a very
Speaker 1: good buzz. There was no conversation but us going right
Speaker 1: into films and making more films. Normally they're gonna want
Speaker 1: to steer some especially your age was very young. They're
Speaker 1: gonna go, let's just keep making movies. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: there was a conversation. But I think I picked up
Speaker 1: on the fact very early going on the Couch and
Speaker 1: Water Bottle tour that the kind of stories that I
Speaker 1: wanted to tell we're not really being funded on a
Speaker 1: larger scale. And film Tina says that sometimes the Tina
Speaker 1: I will just finish work that that that it's it's
Speaker 1: it seems like it's more difficult to a to have
Speaker 1: the control you want in the film business and be
Speaker 1: to say what you want to say it is. And
Speaker 1: the fact is I could have kept saying what I
Speaker 1: wanted to say, you know, making movies, but I wanted
Speaker 1: It's weird. The reason that I like having some budget
Speaker 1: is not because you know, I want to stage car
Speaker 1: crashes or I want to have you know, ten makeup
Speaker 1: artists on set, although those things but will would be lovely.
Speaker 1: But but it's more because of the fact that I
Speaker 1: do so many jobs. So it was so exciting to
Speaker 1: not have to worry anymore about answering the doorbell, about
Speaker 1: returning the equipment, about making sure that people had the pizza. Also,
Speaker 1: that's going to happen in TV and has money, and
Speaker 1: HBO has an HBO is time warnering, but they have money,
Speaker 1: but they use it in this amazing model, which is
Speaker 1: that they don't have to answer to advertisers in the
Speaker 1: same way. So HBO can sort of fulfill its odd
Speaker 1: little interests. And that's what I started out as, and
Speaker 1: I what I didn't predict was how much I would
Speaker 1: love the opportunity to develop characters in this way and
Speaker 1: the kind of the fiber of TV itself now, So
Speaker 1: the template of four women and obviously HBO is no
Speaker 1: stranger to the template of four women talking about but
Speaker 1: obviously those women were older. And you've been a fan
Speaker 1: of that show, Yes, I think that I can't find
Speaker 1: one girl who isn't at least secretly a fan of
Speaker 1: Sex in the City. Who's my age. You know, Sex
Speaker 1: one City is a specter that hangs over in a
Speaker 1: I mean in a positive way, everything female centric. And
Speaker 1: you know, there were so many episodes of Sex City
Speaker 1: and they tackled every area of sexual function and dysfunction
Speaker 1: that there's almost nothing you can pitch that they haven't done.
Speaker 1: But I found that the women on Sex in the
Speaker 1: City that those women would have things happen, and they
Speaker 1: tended to brush off the consequences pretty quickly, whereas the
Speaker 1: girls on your show, the tone seems very different. Everybody
Speaker 1: seems to almost be doubting what they're doing, or they
Speaker 1: have a kind of a sense of fear or anxiety
Speaker 1: about it while they're doing it. It It seems more real.
Speaker 1: Was that is that? Was that deliberate in your partner? Well?
Speaker 1: Something I feel about being in your twenties, which is
Speaker 1: different than you know. Sex and the City was a
Speaker 1: show about women in their thirties who had successful careers prerecession,
Speaker 1: the best, most supportive friends. They didn't have. I mean,
Speaker 1: they had little friend TIFFs. But the characters on our
Speaker 1: show are tortured. It's like, if you ask a in
Speaker 1: her twenties, are you a happy person? I think she
Speaker 1: can say I have happy moments, But I don't think
Speaker 1: it's possible. Maybe I'm maybe people radically disagree with me,
Speaker 1: but I don't really think it's possible to be sort
Speaker 1: of an at peace human when you are between twenty
Speaker 1: two and thirty, and so I think there's still I
Speaker 1: don't because that's a problem that I mean, for me,
Speaker 1: that's something I've noticed because I'm much older than you.
Speaker 1: And one thing that I I noticed when I went
Speaker 1: to college, which is a long time ago, an interesting
Speaker 1: numb of people. They really knew what they wanted to be,
Speaker 1: they weren't quite sure how to get there. That they
Speaker 1: had a dream. I want to become a lawyer. I
Speaker 1: want to become a doctor. I want to go into politics.
Speaker 1: I want to go into and now people today, it
Speaker 1: seems like younger people, they really they think they have
Speaker 1: more time to figure it out, returning twenty five, and
Speaker 1: they really don't have that picture and focus. Do you agree?
Speaker 1: I do agree, And I think a big part of
Speaker 1: it is being I think the world the Internet has
Speaker 1: cracked things open in a way that's both beautiful and
Speaker 1: that it helps you find. There's so many things that
Speaker 1: I never would have even known about, things that have
Speaker 1: been huge for me that have existed because of the Internet.
Speaker 1: And I think that I've been able to partially, you know,
Speaker 1: connect with people who would be fans of the show
Speaker 1: because of the Internet. I think, you know, it's always
Speaker 1: exciting when like there's this website called Rookie mag dot
Speaker 1: com that's run by this girl Toavy Jevinson and it's
Speaker 1: a like a smart team magazine that exists only on
Speaker 1: the Internet. And I just think if when I was
Speaker 1: a teenager there had been that place and that message board,
Speaker 1: I would have felt like the world was my oyster
Speaker 1: like just meeting other weirdo girls who had the same
Speaker 1: who like, you know whatever. At the time, I just
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to someone about Connor Oberst or something
Speaker 1: on the Internet, and that would have been possible. But
Speaker 1: I think now the fact that like the Internet has
Speaker 1: created so many strange specialized jobs and so many things
Speaker 1: where it's like, you know, I'm a brand consultant, slash
Speaker 1: blog enhancer or whatever people are like suddenly the world
Speaker 1: feels wide open, but there are less jobs available, and
Speaker 1: so it's a really confusing moment to make any decisive
Speaker 1: choice about what you want to do. It's interesting you
Speaker 1: say that the Internet is responsible for that and the
Speaker 1: idea of having too many choices then you need wind.
Speaker 1: That could also be a metaphor for like men in
Speaker 1: their twenties dating. I feel like men in their twenties,
Speaker 1: like I once had dated a guy who told me
Speaker 1: that he didn't feel like he could be serious about
Speaker 1: anyone in New York because it would be like eating
Speaker 1: at the same restaurant every night in New York. In
Speaker 1: a minute, I'll talk with Lena Dunham about setting limits.
Speaker 1: I don't ever want to like have a makeover scenario
Speaker 1: where someone's doing better after they've put on a great
Speaker 1: dress and you know, straight ironed their hair, like I
Speaker 1: just I'm Alec Baldwin. And here's the thing. Take a
Speaker 1: listen to our archive more in depth conversations with artists, policymakers,
Speaker 1: and performers, people like Fred Armis and Billy Joel and
Speaker 1: producer Judd Apatow, who talks about Lena Dunham. It's pretty
Speaker 1: amazing to be around someone who is so in their
Speaker 1: moment and has so much they want to express. So
Speaker 1: I find it kind of reinvigorates my own writing and
Speaker 1: my own tapping into my thoughts. Take a listen to
Speaker 1: more of Apatow's thoughts. And here's the Thing. Dot Org.
Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing.
Speaker 1: Lena Dunham, creator and star of the HBO series Girls,
Speaker 1: is smart and funny. Her character on the show, Hannah
Speaker 1: horn Bath, is a mix of intelligence, raising confidence and
Speaker 1: crippling self doubt, and while Dunham's comedy is painfully incisive,
Speaker 1: it doesn't come from someplace mean. First thing, my dad
Speaker 1: is like a Manner's Nazi. So I think that I
Speaker 1: grew up feeling like the worst thing you could do
Speaker 1: was offend someone. Could you sit up straight in that chair?
Speaker 1: And your dad told me to say that way? Oh
Speaker 1: my god, my dad still tells me to sit up
Speaker 1: straight constantly. I'm going to call it and then And
Speaker 1: it's funny because both my my dad is an artist
Speaker 1: and he paints these sort of outlandish intense I mean,
Speaker 1: he paints things that are pretty pretty sexual images, pretty
Speaker 1: aggressive images, you know, a man with I mean, they're funny,
Speaker 1: but they're intense. It's like two men with penises for
Speaker 1: noses in a war with guns and knives with three women.
Speaker 1: Grew up around and I grew up around it. But
Speaker 1: it was what was interesting was that my dad was
Speaker 1: sort of like you can do. Dad had penises on
Speaker 1: on the stage on his face, on everyone's face, But
Speaker 1: you know, you I grew up around it. But I
Speaker 1: think that my ad always really showed me that there
Speaker 1: was a difference between you know, what your work was
Speaker 1: and who you are, and he's so My parents are
Speaker 1: so polite and so sort of they just I think
Speaker 1: so much of this. Again, I've never had kids. I've
Speaker 1: you know, I forget what I'm saying. But I'm glad
Speaker 1: you don't think. I mean, I get too guilty if
Speaker 1: I ever make a mean joke. Appreciate what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: I do, well, I'm terrified. It's one of the reasons
Speaker 1: I don't I don't really feel like a comedy writer
Speaker 1: because there's sort of like a quickness and a harshness,
Speaker 1: and you need to have those people in your bullpen there.
Speaker 1: Do you have some more really traditional edgier we do have.
Speaker 1: I have a couple of writers on the staff, but
Speaker 1: no one on our staff has that particular kind of darkness.
Speaker 1: I've been around a lot of those comedy writers, and
Speaker 1: you know, there's that feeling of like, even when they're
Speaker 1: saying something nice to you, they're kind of trying to
Speaker 1: murder you with their eyeballs, and it's it's it becomes
Speaker 1: too much salt to the soup exactly. It's impressive to
Speaker 1: me in small doses, but terrifying. My thing is also
Speaker 1: I only really make jokes about people I like. Like
Speaker 1: when there's a joke that references a celebrity on the show,
Speaker 1: it's usually a joke that I making because I have
Speaker 1: really taken note of their work and him fascinated by
Speaker 1: you slept with them, and you want to get even No,
Speaker 1: I don't have that that instinct. Now you're going to
Speaker 1: do how many seasons of the show are you signed
Speaker 1: on to do? Well? You know, it's not clear. I
Speaker 1: mean HBO contractually has me, I think as an actor
Speaker 1: for six years, but as a writer, and I wish
Speaker 1: I should pay more attention to my deals, but I'm
Speaker 1: just so excited to have my job. I just go, okay,
Speaker 1: whatever you say. The question becomes how you can maybe
Speaker 1: you know, do that TV show? And the schedule is
Speaker 1: how many? How many episodes we've been doing ten? I think, uh,
Speaker 1: between you, me and McGee, I think we might do
Speaker 1: twelve next year. But I would love that. I think
Speaker 1: that a little more would be just a little more storytelling,
Speaker 1: real estate and it would be amazing. But you know,
Speaker 1: so I shoot four and a half months out of
Speaker 1: the year. Then I'm editing, than I'm doing pressed, then
Speaker 1: I'm writing, then I'm back so so not four half months,
Speaker 1: So it's not it's it's actually more like twelve months.
Speaker 1: And so did you make a movie during the breakfast now?
Speaker 1: Because there was just no time. I finished shooting in August,
Speaker 1: I was editing. Why don't you make a deal with
Speaker 1: HBO with will finance your films. You're working for them
Speaker 1: and it's all in house. It's very smart. I mean,
Speaker 1: I really want to make a movie. I have two
Speaker 1: features scripts that I've been working on that I just
Speaker 1: I want to make another before I make like a big,
Speaker 1: massive ambitious movie. I mean, I want to make a
Speaker 1: creatively ambitious movie, but I want to make another small
Speaker 1: movie I have. I have small movie ideas. Do you
Speaker 1: have a massive ambitious movie inside you? I do, But
Speaker 1: it's so weird. The four year old psychotherapist. There's there's
Speaker 1: a fifty four year old somebody and I mean, I'll
Speaker 1: talk to you later in traffic control. Working with you
Speaker 1: is one of my long standing dreams. But I um,
Speaker 1: and I'm also I'm writing a book, So that's something
Speaker 1: that was really wired about that. It's something that was
Speaker 1: really important to me to start doing at this point
Speaker 1: in my start. And you write and produce your own
Speaker 1: TV show and you're writing a book. Does that remind me?
Speaker 1: What're you gonna write a book about? I'm writing book. Well,
Speaker 1: I guess it's about me, although it's a little less
Speaker 1: about me because it also has advice an advice component,
Speaker 1: but it's like personal essays. So was it like Paula
Speaker 1: Pell's Hey Young Girls? Oh my god, I love Hey
Speaker 1: Young Girls. Makes me so happy. Paula Pell is funny.
Speaker 1: Paula Pell is someone who is funny and not mean.
Speaker 1: She's just a dreamy person. But you know, the thing
Speaker 1: that's been so great about writing the book cause I've
Speaker 1: always loved writing pros and I wanted to make it
Speaker 1: a part of my career sooner rather than later, because
Speaker 1: I didn't want it to be like when I decided
Speaker 1: to write a book in ten years, it was like,
Speaker 1: oh look, here's a celebrity memoir number fifty seven. I
Speaker 1: wanted it to really feel like I'm a person who
Speaker 1: writes pros and that it's a part of my life
Speaker 1: and career for a long time. But unlike other people
Speaker 1: that are writing books, they don't have TV shows that
Speaker 1: they're starring in and writing. When you're done doing now,
Speaker 1: not just ten but twelve episodes. What do you have
Speaker 1: left to go into the book. There's stuff that's just
Speaker 1: for the book. There's an example. Well, I write a
Speaker 1: lot about my childhood in the book. I write a
Speaker 1: lot about my parents. I read a lot about um
Speaker 1: college and sort of like that. I read a lot
Speaker 1: about that period. I read a lot about sort of
Speaker 1: the beginning of being sexual person. I read about relationships.
Speaker 1: I'm writing a lot about sort of female role want
Speaker 1: to say about sexuality. It's interesting. I've had to become
Speaker 1: more conscious about what I say and what I promote,
Speaker 1: not in a way that stifles me, but just in
Speaker 1: a way where I realized now that there are seventeen
Speaker 1: year old girls who come up to me and tell
Speaker 1: me that the show means a lot to them. And
Speaker 1: this one of your audience is influenced. This is what
Speaker 1: I learned from of your is genuinely and in any
Speaker 1: way influenced by what you do and say. That's still
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of people. It's amazing. It's a platform
Speaker 1: that you have to take seriously, which is why sometimes
Speaker 1: it's like I used to be really into Rihanna, that
Speaker 1: pop star, and then it was like again, I don't
Speaker 1: want to ever, you know, throw stones from my glass house.
Speaker 1: But I follow her on Instagram and I just think
Speaker 1: about how many little girls, beyond what I could even comprehend,
Speaker 1: are obsessed with Rihanna, Like, you know, she left Barbados,
Speaker 1: She's had this amazing career, she's you know, one Grammy,
Speaker 1: she's talented. And then she gets back together with Chris
Speaker 1: Brown and post a million pictures them smoking marijuana together
Speaker 1: on a bed, and it cracks my heart in half
Speaker 1: in a way that makes me feel like because she
Speaker 1: got back together, it's going, oh, yeah, you you made
Speaker 1: a really good joke. And I got two emotional and
Speaker 1: in my response because I want to be it's terrible.
Speaker 1: It's terrible, But so you are as a role model.
Speaker 1: What won't Hannah or the other girls in the quartet do?
Speaker 1: Jenny and I talked about this a lot. We won't
Speaker 1: fuck someone because they have a nice apartment. There's not
Speaker 1: going to be any version of sort of like proceuding yourself.
Speaker 1: There's not gonna be any version of dating somebody because
Speaker 1: he can take you out to nice dinner. Wait, wait,
Speaker 1: you're putting down my whole playbook. This is all I
Speaker 1: have left for my wait a second, that is so
Speaker 1: wrong of you. Come on, it's interesting. I have so
Speaker 1: many friends who are so sort of tortured by their
Speaker 1: romantic relationships, and I think such a big part of
Speaker 1: it is that the desires of young men and young
Speaker 1: women are not caught up with each other. So you
Speaker 1: say they won't monetize sex, they won't monetize sex, And
Speaker 1: it's like even more subtle than that, Like, I don't
Speaker 1: like a storyline that's like unless it's really saying something
Speaker 1: about where characters are. I don't like a storyline that's like,
Speaker 1: you know, he bought me an entire trousseau of dresses
Speaker 1: and so I'm his forever. Like that's just not the
Speaker 1: way that I want to idealize anything. I think that
Speaker 1: the characters, the characters can make mistakes, but they have
Speaker 1: to be emotionally responsible for the things that they've done.
Speaker 1: I don't ever want to like have a makeover scenario
Speaker 1: where someone's doing better after they've put on a great
Speaker 1: dress and you know, straight ironed their hair, Like I
Speaker 1: just there's it's a really instinctual thing. Now, two things
Speaker 1: that I think are kind of connected, which is how
Speaker 1: do men present themselves? You have a boyfriend. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't want to pry to your personal life, but
Speaker 1: you how do men present themselves to you differently? You
Speaker 1: said that Hannah was this and that and a chubby
Speaker 1: girl who now the name Lena Dunham means something else
Speaker 1: to people. How do men present themselves to you now
Speaker 1: different from the way they used to? It's interesting. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm so bad at knowing if any he's hitting on me,
Speaker 1: like someone literally has to beat me on the head
Speaker 1: with a drumstick and dragged me back to their cave
Speaker 1: for me to understand that it's going on. And then
Speaker 1: you would press charges again, and then I would, and
Speaker 1: then they and then and then I hired Gloria Alread
Speaker 1: is my attorney. Yeah, exactly. But you know, the thing
Speaker 1: is is that sleazy people are attracted to and sleazy
Speaker 1: people and not sleazy people are attracted to any sense
Speaker 1: of gravity toss that someone might have. So so I
Speaker 1: definitely had felt less ignored by the opposite sex. But
Speaker 1: I'm also so bad at perceiving any of it, and
Speaker 1: so sort of did you know your boyfriend liked to Well,
Speaker 1: we got set up on a blind date, so I
Speaker 1: knew he liked well, I didn't know he liked me,
Speaker 1: but he was pretty disposed. He was predisposed to like
Speaker 1: me because what we were going on was a date.
Speaker 1: And then that was a special situation because I went, oh,
Speaker 1: I think he likes me and I like him. And
Speaker 1: now you don't have to tell me if you don't
Speaker 1: want answer this question. But I just find it charming.
Speaker 1: Where did you go on your first date with your boyfriend?
Speaker 1: We went to Blue Ribbon Bakery in the West Village.
Speaker 1: And the reason I was happy is because I find
Speaker 1: picking a restaurant so anxiety producing, because I feel like
Speaker 1: area because as it really is started that and also,
Speaker 1: what if I choose the wrong restaurant and you have
Speaker 1: a bad association with it or you think I'm freez Exactly,
Speaker 1: it's just the worst. And like what if we go
Speaker 1: there and you don't like muffin? Exactly? It's stressful. So
Speaker 1: he said, before I even had say anything, he said,
Speaker 1: if it's stressful for you, I can pick the restaurant.
Speaker 1: And I felt like, okay, I'm going to be in
Speaker 1: great hands. Where did you pick? And then he picked
Speaker 1: Blue and Maker and then I had a cheese and
Speaker 1: then I ordered a Hamburger and he said, I think
Speaker 1: you should get cheese on it. It's not nice and went,
Speaker 1: oh my god. Yeah that season I was so glad
Speaker 1: you Like, did my mom call you for this date?
Speaker 1: And let you know I like Yarlsberg Burgery you've been
Speaker 1: dating for a while. Yeah, Like, he's a very very
Speaker 1: great person to meet you and tell me if I'm
Speaker 1: onto something here. You seem like someone that regardless of
Speaker 1: what you look like or didn't look like, or what
Speaker 1: you had or didn't have, whoever you were, you have
Speaker 1: a very very healthy and kind of guileless sense of
Speaker 1: who you are, and you presented yourself to people your
Speaker 1: entire life, going this is who I am and if
Speaker 1: you like me, great, and if you don't, there's another
Speaker 1: six point five billion people out there, so go for it,
Speaker 1: am I Right? That's the most stress That's the most
Speaker 1: lovely way of putting it. I mean, I think I
Speaker 1: think I always had a feeling like if you just
Speaker 1: stick around and continue to be yourself, the correct people
Speaker 1: will find you. And that's something that's been so wonderful
Speaker 1: about the show is that it kind of confirmed that
Speaker 1: for me, which is not everyone watches it, but the
Speaker 1: people who watch it understand it and that feeling I'm
Speaker 1: sure you've had this before of uniting with your appropriate
Speaker 1: audience and sort of uniting with your people is like
Speaker 1: about as comforting as feelings get. Lena Dunham's desire to
Speaker 1: connect with her audience is one my next guest understands completely.
Speaker 1: She's been doing it for decades. For nearly seventy years,
Speaker 1: Elaine Stretch has been bringing her characters to life with
Speaker 1: a playful ferocity that naturally leads to scenes stealing performances.
Speaker 1: She's built an enviable career in film and television. Baby,
Speaker 1: but Stritch is a self professed Broadway baby. A big
Speaker 1: break came in nineteen fifty when she was hired to
Speaker 1: understudy for ethel Merman in Irving Berlin's musical Call Me Madam.
Speaker 1: She Scared me to Death's when I got to the
Speaker 1: end of Call Me Madam, it was mine. It is
Speaker 1: not so surprising that you feel very strange. But Elaine
Speaker 1: Stritch remained on stage for much of the fifties and sixties,
Speaker 1: playing such iconic roles as Martha and Who's Afraid of
Speaker 1: Virginia Wolf and Amanda in Private Lives by Noel Coward.
Speaker 1: In nine seventies, she originated what is arguably the role
Speaker 1: of her career, the acerbic Joanne and Stephen Sondheim's Company.
Speaker 1: And Here's to the Girl Who Just Watch. In a
Speaker 1: TV documentary about the cast recording of that production, we
Speaker 1: meet Elaine's toughest critic, herself. Here she is listening to
Speaker 1: a take of that song she made famous, Ladies who Lunch.
Speaker 1: Just to be clear, that's Elaine yelling at the sound
Speaker 1: of her own voice. That was over forty years ago.
Speaker 1: But Elaine Stritch has continued to hold herself to impossibly
Speaker 1: high standards, and her dedication to the craft she loves
Speaker 1: is clear, at least until recently. Earlier this year, Elaine
Speaker 1: Stritch announced that she was leaving New York for her
Speaker 1: home state of Michigan. There's nothing to time me here.
Speaker 1: Doesn't give me any satisfaction. I don't go home and
Speaker 1: say I guess I told them. In April, at the
Speaker 1: fitting age of eight, she performed her last cabaret show
Speaker 1: at the Carlisle Hotel. As long as I've got arms
Speaker 1: to clean, it's you all be clinging to. I shouldn't
Speaker 1: live in New York anymore. It's not for me anymore.
Speaker 1: It's too fast for me. Or no, it's not too fast.
Speaker 1: And I changed my mind about that. It's not this,
Speaker 1: It's not that. It's just not for me. This is
Speaker 1: a this is New York taxi low, and it's dinner
Speaker 1: and tonight and tomorrow and and I can't handle it
Speaker 1: anymore because I'm not interested in handling it. You just
Speaker 1: don't want You could do it. You just don't want
Speaker 1: to do it. I said the other night. When is
Speaker 1: pretend going to end? Slowly but surely? Alex Is? I'm
Speaker 1: starting to say, I don't want to pretend anymore. I
Speaker 1: want to get up in the morning and I want
Speaker 1: it to be real. You know what talent is? Why
Speaker 1: have you lasted all this time? Because you're talented? Certainly,
Speaker 1: isn't because people think you're an easy time of it?
Speaker 1: Because I have to accomplish something in that department Almost
Speaker 1: every day of my life I have to. You've never
Speaker 1: stopped trying to prove yourself. That's the key, isn't it. No,
Speaker 1: I gotta go and do that part in that soap,
Speaker 1: in that smoke. I don't care what it is, or
Speaker 1: I'm with no old coward on the west End, or
Speaker 1: I'm with how Prince on Broadway, I'm with all the big, big,
Speaker 1: big big shots, and they're directing me well and guiding
Speaker 1: me well. And I'm I'm you would approve you belong
Speaker 1: there with them, yes, And I'm being directed in the
Speaker 1: way of the big shots, and I'm doing fine. I'm
Speaker 1: doing fine. I'm I'm, I'm doing fine. But you but
Speaker 1: there's a point, I'm assuming when did you feel that
Speaker 1: you're in the room and all of a sudden it's like,
Speaker 1: I don't need anybody's advice. I know what I want
Speaker 1: to do. Here's what I do. Was there a time,
Speaker 1: remember in your life when that changed? I got self
Speaker 1: satisfied about the parts that I played? For example, Well,
Speaker 1: like I was the I was the funny, kind of
Speaker 1: offbeat girl. I wasn't. I was never the romantic lead.
Speaker 1: I wasn't good that kind of looking girl in the movies.
Speaker 1: I couldn't be that kind of looking girl. I was. Well,
Speaker 1: you could, you could have been look spise, but you
Speaker 1: just don't want to play it because those we're dull parts.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, parts, but I ye, you're a sassier woman
Speaker 1: and you played those parts. But I didn't want to
Speaker 1: be eve Ardon. I really didn't. Okay, okay, that's a
Speaker 1: good point. Why what did you sprinkle on top of
Speaker 1: that to make sure that it wasn't eve Harton? What
Speaker 1: do you do that eve Harton didn't do I get
Speaker 1: dramatic or frightened or real about something or pain. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a pain. It's not any Bard's work. Something dramatic
Speaker 1: happens to me in the course of a comedy, right,
Speaker 1: I don't know. But what was I always what a
Speaker 1: way complicating things with the pain of your existence? There's
Speaker 1: this thing you tap into. Did you do when you
Speaker 1: were very young? I think so? I think I did.
Speaker 1: Were you the complicated one? Oh? I think so. I
Speaker 1: mean there's very often I would hear around our house
Speaker 1: where is he lane? And then my mother was and
Speaker 1: they say oh, and I'd say, I'm right here. They
Speaker 1: were worried about you. Yeah, everybody was worried about me,
Speaker 1: because when I wasn't accountable, I was. I scared him.
Speaker 1: When did performing begin? For he was a were performer
Speaker 1: As a child, I was laughing, I was born laughing.
Speaker 1: Oh God, I was funny. I really was funny, and
Speaker 1: I made everybody laugh. And I wasn't conscious of it.
Speaker 1: I want to tell you something. I'd love to tell
Speaker 1: you a line from my life to see if you
Speaker 1: get this. My mother and dad, as a present to
Speaker 1: me when I was six years old, took me to
Speaker 1: Niagara Falls, which was very close to Birmingham, Michigan. And
Speaker 1: I kept hearing about this. And I was going to
Speaker 1: wear my new pink coat and hat, and I was
Speaker 1: going to Niagara Falls. And I kept hearing it, and
Speaker 1: you know, Christmas morning, Christmas morning, whatever it was, and
Speaker 1: and I never said a word. I just sat in
Speaker 1: the backseat and I just waited. The pulled up Alec
Speaker 1: to the parking lot in Niagara Falls. And here we are.
Speaker 1: We're here, Landy, We're here, Come on, get out. And
Speaker 1: it was just me, mom and dad. So the two sisters,
Speaker 1: the older sisters, you know, the hell with them. And
Speaker 1: I got very teary eyed and pulled my mother back
Speaker 1: from the car and said, Mama, what what We're going
Speaker 1: to go see Niagara Fall? And I asked her if
Speaker 1: Niagara Falls had a baby. And to me and to
Speaker 1: my mother and my father, it was one of the
Speaker 1: most extraordinary dramatic lines of all time. All I was
Speaker 1: interested in is Did this woman Niagara Falls have a baby?
Speaker 1: Because then I could play with it? And it was
Speaker 1: I think an absolute proof of how lonely and sad
Speaker 1: I was as a kid. I didn't know what the
Speaker 1: hell artistic was all about. I really didn't. I knew
Speaker 1: I had to express myself. I knew I had to
Speaker 1: express myself, and that's all there was to it. So
Speaker 1: when you left Michigan, when you left home, you lived
Speaker 1: at home in Michigan. Your family lived in Michigan until
Speaker 1: you left home. Did you go to college? No, I
Speaker 1: didn't go to college, which I graduated from high school?
Speaker 1: Where Sacred Heart Convent? You went to a convent. I
Speaker 1: went to a convent, the Soccerquer, highly educational, big scholastic,
Speaker 1: scooby doo. You went there for what twelve years? That
Speaker 1: was your high school? When you left there, where'd you
Speaker 1: go to Deshen Residence? Which was also the soccer Quer
Speaker 1: but it was a residence finishing school for what it
Speaker 1: was like um after school stuff, you know, Like I'm
Speaker 1: trying to think of one of the courses that we
Speaker 1: took current events, isn't that? I guess how long were
Speaker 1: you there? Uh? Two years? Two years after and I
Speaker 1: went out and majored in dramatics at the New School
Speaker 1: in Greenwich Village. The Finishing school was in the city
Speaker 1: when you were back in Michigan, Greenwich Village. I'm in
Speaker 1: New York and you went to Finishing School in New
Speaker 1: York absolutely on ninety one and Fifth Avenue. Oh my god. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I uh, I took these three courses at the school,
Speaker 1: which is fine. I had a roommate from Chicago who
Speaker 1: was majoring in journalism, and we were all very sophisticated broads.
Speaker 1: You went to New School for drama. That was your
Speaker 1: first acting exposure. What do you think about it when
Speaker 1: you first I loved it. I sat next to Marlon Brando.
Speaker 1: That wasn't hurt at all. You through class. Yeah, Walter
Speaker 1: Mattha was on the other side of me at the
Speaker 1: New School. Yeah, we had a very stellar cast. I
Speaker 1: was getting along fine and having the most fun I've
Speaker 1: ever had in my whole Life's the first job. Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, I was at the studio theater at
Speaker 1: the New School, and we had our own theater, and
Speaker 1: Piscata directed and Stella Hadler directed, and we had all
Speaker 1: those Stanislavski people. We had more fun Alex. You couldn't
Speaker 1: believe it was Stella like as a director, heaven she
Speaker 1: was what made her so die insight, all this kind
Speaker 1: of dramatics, you know, Lane and Malin and wolves and
Speaker 1: you do it. She screamed her head off us. She
Speaker 1: was crazy woman. But I just had the most wonderful
Speaker 1: time in dramatic school. And then what about your first child, Douglas.
Speaker 1: I did my first play with Kirk Douglas Craig's um,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, wait a minute. I'll tell you in
Speaker 1: a minute. You and Kirk Douglas, you're on a stage
Speaker 1: in New York. And also, where is my black bag? Alec? Hunter?
Speaker 1: I need I need orange juice? Hunter, come in plays?
Speaker 1: Can we send Hunter on here? Plays with the provisions? Hunter?
Speaker 1: Ryan Herdlica, who accompanied Elaine to the studio, came through
Speaker 1: the door juice in hand. I need some orange juice.
Speaker 1: My diabete Beties is kicking up. I need my good
Speaker 1: man Hunters here, now, Hunters here all right with the world.
Speaker 1: You know that I'm diabetic, Yes, of course, I mean
Speaker 1: the world knows by the world. Okay, you know what
Speaker 1: I quoted the other day, the line of my father's
Speaker 1: that It really is so naughty and just so much fun.
Speaker 1: Here's looking up your old address. Isn't it a great line?
Speaker 1: And he said it with no he used that was it?
Speaker 1: That's right? All right, I'm going to drink this the
Speaker 1: orangice now so we don't have some event here. That's cool, okay, alright,
Speaker 1: So now that you've had your orange juice and your
Speaker 1: brain freezes over, Kirk Douglas, what was the show? Do
Speaker 1: you remember now? Woman bites Dog? That orange juice. It's
Speaker 1: a miracle of lick, sir, I wanted to be a
Speaker 1: case of that orange juice dog, Woman bites Dog. What
Speaker 1: do you play in that? If you playing his girlfriend
Speaker 1: who he lived with? I didn't even know what that
Speaker 1: phrase meant. You were a floozy? Well no, I wasn't.
Speaker 1: I just but I live with him and I wasn't
Speaker 1: married to him. I didn't know what that meant. What
Speaker 1: do you remember about Kirk Douglas? Oh my god, I
Speaker 1: loved him, Oh God, I loved him. And what an
Speaker 1: actor I loved. And he's one of the few men
Speaker 1: who was as great an actor as he was a star. Oh,
Speaker 1: he was a great actor. He was a great actor.
Speaker 1: He was a great actor. I loved him and he
Speaker 1: loved me. He flipped over me, and he took me
Speaker 1: halfway away for the weekend, and then I discovered that
Speaker 1: I shouldn't go. He took you half way away to
Speaker 1: Palm Springs, and then I said, I shouldn't be going.
Speaker 1: So what did you hit? Like? What? He said? I
Speaker 1: don't know. We were halfway to Palm Beach, Palm Springs things.
Speaker 1: So you're driving east and we were driving for the
Speaker 1: weekend and you decide you didn't want to. Well, I said,
Speaker 1: I'm getting nervous because what do you want me to
Speaker 1: do when we get up here? Kirked us. Oh, Elaine,
Speaker 1: he knew I was a virgin, so he was dealing
Speaker 1: with that. Here are you? Isn't amazing you with this
Speaker 1: virginal You went to suck or cur and you went
Speaker 1: to finishing school and I played as soon as you're out.
Speaker 1: God is just tempting you. He's taking Marlon Brando on
Speaker 1: one side of you, and Kirk Douglas is reving up
Speaker 1: the cons able to take you to Palm Springs, and
Speaker 1: you're the fluzi here and you're the piece on the side,
Speaker 1: the busty femtwel But what I was really doing is
Speaker 1: learning my lines to the play or to the television
Speaker 1: or to the I was really loving acting. I loved it.
Speaker 1: I loved pretending. I just loved It's so hard and
Speaker 1: it's such hard work, but it's so gratifying. What's the
Speaker 1: hardest thing about it? For you? What's been the hardest thing?
Speaker 1: Do you find it hard just to have the fear
Speaker 1: of what that you won't be able to perform, the
Speaker 1: fear that I'm just gonna forget and I'm gonna not
Speaker 1: not so much forget, But it's the fear, it's the fear.
Speaker 1: Have you ever done a show. I'm sure you've done
Speaker 1: countless shows. You ever done a show where you're sitting
Speaker 1: backstage thinking what am I doing here? How did I
Speaker 1: get myself into this? Or? Were you always engaged by
Speaker 1: what you were doing? I was always engaged always. You
Speaker 1: never took I was leading up to it or coming down,
Speaker 1: you know, I I was trying to get it behind.
Speaker 1: You never regretted doing anything? Never? No, Wow, that's incredible. No,
Speaker 1: I never never regretted doing anything on the stage. You
Speaker 1: never How was that possible? Because I just one every
Speaker 1: time I walked out there. You know that old expression
Speaker 1: about I own the stage after all. Over the course
Speaker 1: of her career rear, Elaine Stritch worked with some of
Speaker 1: the best, like Stephen Sundheim. I don't think he knew
Speaker 1: anything about how successful he was. He wasn't conscious of that.
Speaker 1: He was too busy doing it. In a minute, our
Speaker 1: interview continues, and blood sugars are measured. Oh, there we go.
Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing.
Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the thing.
Speaker 1: In the past twenty years, TV and film have introduced
Speaker 1: Elaine Stretch to a new audience. She garnered Emmy's for
Speaker 1: her performances in Law and Order and in Thirty Rock,
Speaker 1: where she played my character's mother, the irascible Colleen Donahey. Well, wow, whoa, whoa, whoa,
Speaker 1: This must be the one she welcome. No, no, no, mother, mother,
Speaker 1: this is not this is not Phoebe. Well, why the
Speaker 1: hell not? I ended up liking Tina Fey an awful
Speaker 1: lot and very quietly all by myself. Did you enjoy
Speaker 1: doing the show? No, you didn't know why. I didn't
Speaker 1: have any fun with with comedy. I did with you
Speaker 1: for a while, but then it got a little bit
Speaker 1: too routine for me. And I wasn't challenged. I didn't
Speaker 1: have a challenge with it. But I mean I was fine.
Speaker 1: But um oh, I don't know, Alexi, just it wasn't
Speaker 1: Would you think TV is not your No? I think
Speaker 1: TV is fine with me. There's nothing, nothing's wrong with it.
Speaker 1: I love TV. I love comedy. I loved working with you.
Speaker 1: It was almost like we need it was okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so. Um, did you ever want to do
Speaker 1: a drama in your later years? I mean in the
Speaker 1: last years, I was just cut out for it, cut
Speaker 1: out for it. You were what's the last drama you
Speaker 1: did on stage? Edward All be Um Lady from Dubuq, No, No, No,
Speaker 1: Three twelve Women. No. I was asked to do that.
Speaker 1: I didn't do it. It's too much to learn. A
Speaker 1: delicate ballad one of the best players ever written in
Speaker 1: the whole world, and also a play for me. What
Speaker 1: did you like about the part? What did you like
Speaker 1: about it? Was very quiet and very subtle, subtle, like
Speaker 1: forget about it and just and I just went about
Speaker 1: my business on that stage, and I did everything. I
Speaker 1: drank too much, I talked too much. I did exactly
Speaker 1: as I pleased. I went upstairs when I wanted to
Speaker 1: go upstairs. I was absolutely all over the place and
Speaker 1: not promising anything to anybody. It was unbelievable. Who directed
Speaker 1: Jerry Gutierres, who is the best director with aside from
Speaker 1: George Wolfe. The two of them were what does it? No? No, no,
Speaker 1: help illuminate this for people, because this, to me is
Speaker 1: a very important question for you, and that is, you're
Speaker 1: so self directed. You know you've got the talent, you've
Speaker 1: got to feel good. But baby, you got so many
Speaker 1: bullets in your chamber, it's not funny. And you come
Speaker 1: out there you're loaded. And what does the director do
Speaker 1: for you? How does the director help you? Oh, he
Speaker 1: makes me feel comfortable about myself. He gives you. For instance,
Speaker 1: George Wolfe when he did My One Woman Show, he
Speaker 1: has a way of laughing that he had. When he laughs,
Speaker 1: he falls on the floor, he throws himself on the
Speaker 1: floor because he's got to do that. He's got to
Speaker 1: go ha. He goes crazy when he laughs and he's
Speaker 1: laughing and he's and that will make me listen to
Speaker 1: a director that will that will tune me in. Isn't
Speaker 1: a nice when a director gives you confidence? Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I've worked with so many of them. Were not that
Speaker 1: they undermined you, but they certainly didn't give you any comment.
Speaker 1: They almost resented the implication that they do that. They
Speaker 1: kind of looked at you like, well, you're getting paid
Speaker 1: all this money, you just get up there and do it.
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not here to help you know. They
Speaker 1: don't help you at all. There's no mentoring or care.
Speaker 1: It's very, very strange. I want a little more orange juice,
Speaker 1: Gang Hunter. That beeping sound we've been hearing periodic? Is
Speaker 1: that a glucose meter? What's that? What's that thing that
Speaker 1: went off? Where's mine? It's ducks come. It's telling us
Speaker 1: to enter the blood sugars. Oh my god, I forgot
Speaker 1: all about them. When we're done with this, will enter him.
Speaker 1: Oh are we okay? Do you want to take a
Speaker 1: break into it now? How long will it take a minute?
Speaker 1: Go right? A hell? Please do it now? We wait.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want it in the post that you were
Speaker 1: hospitalized on my account because Alec Baldwin refused to allow
Speaker 1: me to administer my diabetes treatment. Oh boy, okay, this
Speaker 1: is right away. I'm going to do it now. Okay,
Speaker 1: there we go. I don't have my ladies and gentlemen, okay,
Speaker 1: Elaine stretch and Hunter, the ever trusty Hunter or squeezing
Speaker 1: droplets of her blood onto a device. So I gotta
Speaker 1: tell us that we've nearly killed her here she okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're okay. And then it's done. And then and you
Speaker 1: want to keep it at what number? It's not a
Speaker 1: matter of keeping, it's just entering them. What what they are? Now?
Speaker 1: That are two hours after. I'd love to do mine too.
Speaker 1: While we're at it, Let's have a let's have a
Speaker 1: prick our finger and squeeze it on the glucose meter. Party,
Speaker 1: stop that, Alex, Listen, there's another BB. This is why
Speaker 1: you're so glad we're not doing this on television because
Speaker 1: to see this happening, it's really unsettling. And we've done
Speaker 1: both of them now, both of them. Yea. And what
Speaker 1: number you have anywhere do you want to be doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be that's fine, that's good, it's cool. Okay,
Speaker 1: she's cool. Oh oh, I know what I wanted to
Speaker 1: tell you. I want to tell him something that I
Speaker 1: that I got the nerve to tell John to tourists.
Speaker 1: Now when you told John to touro, when you wanted
Speaker 1: to tell him, because it's something that meant a lot
Speaker 1: to you, Because we will edit that you called him
Speaker 1: to tourists. A lot of people have. Alex Baldwin called
Speaker 1: John to tourists? What did you want to tell? Trying
Speaker 1: to tell somebody something about me and acting that sort
Speaker 1: of I thought kind of represented something about me that
Speaker 1: I had had courage to tell. And the thing was that, I, oh,
Speaker 1: how can I tell you this? Will you tell me
Speaker 1: that your secret and I'll tell you mine? All right?
Speaker 1: My secret is is that how can I put it
Speaker 1: to you? My secret is in Virginia Wolf. When I
Speaker 1: was playing Virginia Wolf, I am sometimes I get fuzzy
Speaker 1: when I'm telling a story. Now and it's we have
Speaker 1: in comment, go ahead. I wanted to tell something intimate
Speaker 1: about myself to John about when he was interviewing me.
Speaker 1: I told him that when I was doing Virginia Wolf,
Speaker 1: and when George and Martha had their scene together and
Speaker 1: George said, our son is dead, you know, big scene?
Speaker 1: Our son? He yells in my faith is dead and
Speaker 1: I went no. At the height of my force, I
Speaker 1: said no to him, and I had an orgasm for
Speaker 1: the first time in my life. Yes, really so so
Speaker 1: this is this is how important that moment was on
Speaker 1: stage to me. Ill be very particular about who he
Speaker 1: casts very Did you have a good relationship with him?
Speaker 1: You're close, He's very tough. Who we put he's very
Speaker 1: but he's and he's very fond of me. I got
Speaker 1: to last questions for you, and I want you to
Speaker 1: give me a simple answer to this first question. I've
Speaker 1: met a lot of people in this business, and I've
Speaker 1: worked with a lot of people who were powerful. Julie
Speaker 1: Harris played my mother on a TV series, and I
Speaker 1: work with I work with some great people, you know,
Speaker 1: great great people. Some I'm not so great, but some
Speaker 1: great ones. And you're one of the great ones I
Speaker 1: worked with. But just give me a yes or no
Speaker 1: if you're capable. And that is, do you realize what
Speaker 1: you mean to other people who were in this business,
Speaker 1: how much they love you and how much they admire
Speaker 1: Do you know I'm beginning to do you into the
Speaker 1: mic place. Don't talk to you. I'm beginning to because
Speaker 1: in this business as you know, especially for people who
Speaker 1: themselves are very talented and or successful other talented people,
Speaker 1: that's like um an aphrodisiact to them. Talent is the
Speaker 1: greatest aphrodisiac. And everyone basically says, there's no one more
Speaker 1: talented than you. You're an immensely, immensely incalculably talented woman
Speaker 1: and people, and you're a gigantic pain in the ass.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you're a legendary pain in the ass. You're a
Speaker 1: gigantic pain in the ass. But people don't, you know,
Speaker 1: they joke about that because they love you. And why
Speaker 1: do they love you? Because you're so talented, you're so funny,
Speaker 1: you're soever, your timing is impeccable. Now, what are you
Speaker 1: gonna miss about New York? The personality of human beings
Speaker 1: in New York They are so opened and second, they're
Speaker 1: not watching what they're doing. They're not you know, they're
Speaker 1: they're not watching their language, they're not watching anything. They're
Speaker 1: just going through life's saying what yeah, all right? You know,
Speaker 1: and everybody they're engaged. Every day is an event in
Speaker 1: New York. Elaine Stritch says she's going to miss New
Speaker 1: Yorker's and I can tell you that we will miss
Speaker 1: her too. She says the move back to Michigan hasn't
Speaker 1: been easy, but she's already found herself on stage in Detroit.
Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwhen you can hear more of our
Speaker 1: conversations from Debbie Reynolds to Michael Douglas in our archive,
Speaker 1: Elvis used to tease him and put snakes down his pants,
Speaker 1: and that was the beginning for you. And I thought, no,
Speaker 1: I always knew I was going to be with people
Speaker 1: like this. Take a listen at Here's the Thing dot Org.
Speaker 1: Here's the Thing is produced by Emily Bottine and Kathy
Speaker 1: Russo with Chris Bannon, Jim Briggs, ed Herbstman, Melanie Hoops,
Speaker 1: Monica Hopkins, Trey k Sharon Mashehe, and Lou Okawski. Thanks
Speaker 1: to Larry Josephson and the Radio Foundation, This is Alec Baldwin.
Speaker 1: Then you're listening to Here's the Thing o