Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of
Speaker 1: where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed.
Speaker 2: Ludlow, married from New York and San Francisco.
Speaker 3: This is Bloombag Technology coming up. President Trump, he floats
Speaker 3: potentially in eighty percent tariff on China ahead of negotiations
Speaker 3: due to begin Saturday. This has I urged Beijing to
Speaker 3: do more to open up their markets to US goods.
Speaker 4: Plus, Apple's working on youtuip for future devices including smart glasses,
Speaker 4: Powerful max and AI servers, and lift shares.
Speaker 3: Jumping this morning, it's biggest interday rise in November, so
Speaker 3: after the Right and Company reported strong gross bookings in
Speaker 3: their first quarter. But first we check in on these
Speaker 3: markets and we're actually relatively calm.
Speaker 5: We headed towards the weekend when we actually see a.
Speaker 3: Little bit of a draw down on the last past
Speaker 3: five training days. After two phenomenal weeks of gains on
Speaker 3: the NASAQ one hundred, we just trimmed by two tenths
Speaker 3: of a percent. Ed, it's all about tariff's It's all
Speaker 3: about negotiations with China, whether there's any sort of ice breaking.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's why I'm looking at Tesla right. I
Speaker 4: don't see a catalyst or a headline driver on the
Speaker 4: terminal this morning, but Tesla is headed for its third
Speaker 4: straight weekly gain. It's the biggest run of gains on
Speaker 4: a weekly basis September. The logic in the last twenty
Speaker 4: four hours has been if the tariff narrative with China improves,
Speaker 4: names like Tesla will see a bit of a reprieve.
Speaker 4: Tesla exports some vehicles from Shanghai. The mix of vehicles
Speaker 4: when more of them come out of Shanghai is higher
Speaker 4: margin for Tesla. Is that the logic that the market's applying.
Speaker 4: What we're trying to do is extrapolate from what the
Speaker 4: President said yesterday about what might happen in the context
Speaker 4: of tariffs, and then he takes the truth Social and
Speaker 4: says some.
Speaker 6: More he does.
Speaker 3: Let's bring up that truth Social post from President Trump
Speaker 3: earlier this morning saying that having eighty percent tariffs on
Speaker 3: China seems about right, and then leaving it up to
Speaker 3: Treasury Secretary Scott Besson. Let's get you the inside track
Speaker 3: with blumbg's Michael Shepherd. Mike look, eighty percent, is that
Speaker 3: a positive or negative for the market.
Speaker 7: Well, you know, if the market, we're looking for a
Speaker 7: big concession on this. They got in absolute terms of
Speaker 7: significant cut from the current one hundred and forty five
Speaker 7: percent tariff level. But keep in mind, Carro, that eighty
Speaker 7: percent tariffs on goods coming in from China is still
Speaker 7: pretty eye watering. It's at a level that would discourage
Speaker 7: most trade. And we've seen companies, including Apple for instance,
Speaker 7: trying to shift their supply chains and supply lines when
Speaker 7: it comes to China to reduce their exposure to China
Speaker 7: when it comes to goods exported to the US. And
Speaker 7: it's interesting that the President is also framing this as
Speaker 7: a challenge to China to open its markets, even as
Speaker 7: he is maintaining what would be a historically high barrier there.
Speaker 4: Mike, the President, indeed, the British Ambassador to the US,
Speaker 4: Peter Manerlson, kind of framed this as a great deal,
Speaker 4: the ten level tariff UK to US. But what everyone
Speaker 4: kept asking in the Q and A is is this
Speaker 4: the template for your other negotiations? And I think the
Speaker 4: President basically said ten percent's a great deal. It won't
Speaker 4: be like that for other countries.
Speaker 7: Well, that's right, ed, and that really is the question
Speaker 7: on the minds of trading partners and companies around the world.
Speaker 7: They want to know, how do we negotiate with this
Speaker 7: administration that has come in really elbows out on trade
Speaker 7: from the start. And what we heard from Howard Lutnik
Speaker 7: last night was that, look, this may not be a
Speaker 7: template per se, but it is a roadmac It gives
Speaker 7: a sort of frame two other countries to trading partners
Speaker 7: about what sorts of concessions.
Speaker 8: The Trump administration might be looking for.
Speaker 7: When it comes to the UK, they came in with
Speaker 7: some offers that were quite appealing to Donald Trump.
Speaker 8: Won the UK agreed to buy.
Speaker 7: Thirteen billion dollars worth of Boeing aircraft, very much music
Speaker 7: to his ears as he tries to stoke the manufacturing
Speaker 7: base here in the US, and also some agricultural concessions too,
Speaker 7: with promises to increase purchases of American beef. So between
Speaker 7: beef and airplanes, the UK found a way to get
Speaker 7: that reciprocal tariff lowered all the way to ten percent.
Speaker 7: That may not be the case with other countries, and
Speaker 7: certainly negotiations with South Korea and Japan, which have a
Speaker 7: heavy tech exposure and interest, will face a much tougher
Speaker 7: and more complicated road.
Speaker 8: How link indicated yesterday ed boom both.
Speaker 9: Michael Shepherd in Washington, d C. Thank you.
Speaker 4: In other news, China's top chip maker, Semiconductor Manufacturing International,
Speaker 4: plunged Friday after it worn sales could fall as much
Speaker 4: as six percent this quarter because.
Speaker 9: Of production disruptions.
Speaker 4: The company's co CEO unspecified issues with production lines and
Speaker 4: warned of a likely shipment correction in the smartphone market
Speaker 4: over the summer.
Speaker 5: Carrot more on smartphones.
Speaker 3: Let's turn to Apple, but actually the tech giant is
Speaker 3: said to be designing new chips to be used in
Speaker 3: future devices, smart glasses, more powerful max AI servers.
Speaker 5: Let's get to Mark German.
Speaker 3: Who's been breaking all of this news, and finally, well,
Speaker 3: those meta ray bands are going to have some competition,
Speaker 3: but it'll take a couple of years.
Speaker 6: That's the big news here.
Speaker 10: The meta smart glasses will have some competition from Apple.
Speaker 10: Apple has been working on glasses projects for some time,
Speaker 10: including classes without augmented reality like the metas, and glasses
Speaker 10: with augmented reality. Those are coming further down the road.
Speaker 10: But you need a product to hold you over till then.
Speaker 10: They've seen the metas are popular. They've seen that artificial
Speaker 10: intelligence is going to be a big part of hardware.
Speaker 10: So they're going down this road. And as they've done
Speaker 10: with other new product categories, they're developing a custom chip
Speaker 10: for these glasses. And this chip is based on the
Speaker 10: Apple Watch processor.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 10: It has special components in there too to increase power efficiency,
Speaker 10: decrease power draw, and control multiple cameras that would be
Speaker 10: on the exterior of these glasses, and they would work
Speaker 10: like metas where you can look at items and ask
Speaker 10: it for context using Siri mark.
Speaker 4: Generally speaking, this is consistent with apple strategy on custom silicon. Right,
Speaker 4: many of the processes across the range of devices are
Speaker 4: Apple's own and I believe made by TSMC, fabricated by TSMC.
Speaker 4: Just explain Apple's footprint in that sense.
Speaker 10: Yeah, the Apple for footprint is that they have their
Speaker 10: own custom processors and basically every device they sell. They
Speaker 10: moved away from Intel in twenty twenty. For the Mac,
Speaker 10: the Mac now has these high end M series processors,
Speaker 10: the Vision Pro and the iPad of the M series processors.
Speaker 10: At this point, the iPhone and the lower and iPads
Speaker 10: have the A series processors. They make their own chips
Speaker 10: for AirPods for Apple watches, and so of course they're
Speaker 10: going to do it for the glasses as well as
Speaker 10: a significant product category within that vision brand in our likelihood,
Speaker 10: and they used here and C like you said, for
Speaker 10: that final manufacturing. But much of the design is done
Speaker 10: in house from Apple in their labs across Europe, across
Speaker 10: the United States, and they do have a license with
Speaker 10: ARM and they use fundamental underlying technologies from ARM.
Speaker 4: Yeah, many people talk to me about Apple in the
Speaker 4: context of it being a fabulous chip designer in its
Speaker 4: own right, which is a fascinating move. Bloomberg, Mark German,
Speaker 4: thank you very much. Now coming up, we're going to
Speaker 4: speak with the Lift CEO, David risher Is. The company
Speaker 4: posts better than expected gross bookings for the first quarter.
Speaker 9: This is Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 5: Time now for talking tech.
Speaker 3: And first up, as you see shares a crowd strike
Speaker 3: lower today, US prosecutors regulators, they are proving senior executors
Speaker 3: over what may have been known by them about it's
Speaker 3: thirty two million dollar deal with Carasoft into the IRS.
Speaker 3: Now that's a quarter to sources. Investigators are looking into
Speaker 3: other transactions made by CrowdStrike and said to have.
Speaker 5: Questioned former employees.
Speaker 3: Plus TSMC rising today is the company posted a revenue
Speaker 3: jump of forty eight percent in April. This has companies
Speaker 3: increased purchases of essential components ahead of global tariffs. TSMC
Speaker 3: says that they see continued resilient demand from ai but
Speaker 3: recent surgeons in Taiwan's dollar that compression of the company's
Speaker 3: margins going forward, and Panasonic is cutting ten thousand jobs
Speaker 3: and an effort to boost profitability, shifting focus into growth
Speaker 3: areas now. The four percent workforce reduction can see five
Speaker 3: thousand employees in Japan and five thousand overseas.
Speaker 5: Personnel if they let go in the fiscal year.
Speaker 3: Panasonic expects about eight hundred and ninety five million dollars
Speaker 3: in restructuring charges this year.
Speaker 4: ED Let's Go Back to Technology earning shares of LIFT
Speaker 4: up around twenty percent so far today, on track for
Speaker 4: their biggest jumps since November, company posting a better than
Speaker 4: expected gross bookings of four point one six billion dollars,
Speaker 4: and Little Sweetener announced an expanded share by Back program.
Speaker 9: LIFT CEO Dave joins us for more. Good morning, David.
Speaker 4: There's something really interesting in your kind of forward looking
Speaker 4: strategy commentary on the cool Uber talks about something the same.
Speaker 4: There are parts of this country, America where ride share
Speaker 4: is less pervasive, people don't use as much, probably they
Speaker 4: drive their own car.
Speaker 9: You want to go after that market? Why and how so?
Speaker 11: The answer is, we've gotten really good at obsessing over
Speaker 11: our customers and we want to take it bigger and
Speaker 11: go bigger. I mean, look, this is our sixteenth consecutive.
Speaker 12: Quarter of growth. You know, we're a profitable.
Speaker 11: Company, We're you know, generating nine hundred million dollars of cash,
Speaker 11: and yet yet the rideshare market are still tiny. One
Speaker 11: hundred and sixty billion rides in the United States every
Speaker 11: year and we only do a couple three billion between
Speaker 11: the two of us. So there's so much opportunity. It
Speaker 11: really is better to be in the back of the
Speaker 11: car having someone else drive you, and we want to
Speaker 11: do it in places like Indianapolis and others where you know,
Speaker 11: the opportunities even bigger cash.
Speaker 4: When last year on which was just a few weeks ago,
Speaker 4: we were talk talking about M and A in Europe,
Speaker 4: and with respect, it was a modest deal. The buy
Speaker 4: back is clearly well received by your investors. Yeah, but
Speaker 4: that would indicate that you have some ability to do
Speaker 4: m and a going forward you know, do you see
Speaker 4: that in your capital plans? And if you did buy something,
Speaker 4: what would it be.
Speaker 11: So, so, first, thanks for acknowledging it's true. I mean,
Speaker 11: this is a business that is now generating nearly a
Speaker 11: billion of dollars of cash in the trailing twelve months.
Speaker 12: So that's a wonderful place to be.
Speaker 11: Again, huge thanks to the incredible team that has been
Speaker 11: working so dang hard to make this business not only
Speaker 11: great for customers, but great for shareholders as well.
Speaker 12: So now the question is, right, what are other opportunities?
Speaker 11: I would say our near term focus is making the
Speaker 11: cash that we've got, you know, putting it to work.
Speaker 11: As you say, we just acquired free Now, which will
Speaker 11: allow us to expand internationally.
Speaker 12: You know, nothing more.
Speaker 11: Obviously to announce right now, aside from the buyback, of course,
Speaker 11: but it's great to be in a strong position. We've
Speaker 11: got a strong balance sheet and a strong income statement,
Speaker 11: so it feels that's a good place to be and.
Speaker 3: It's a strong position that you manage to defend off
Speaker 3: engine capital, David, in terms of they were a pushy
Speaker 3: investor wanting changes potentially a board level, but they've withdrawn
Speaker 3: that because of what you've given to the investor base
Speaker 3: in terms of buybacks, David.
Speaker 5: Is that a cyber relief?
Speaker 12: I mean, you know, we talk to investors all the time.
Speaker 11: I would say maybe not so much the cyber relief
Speaker 11: as much as just it absolutely allows us to continue
Speaker 11: to focus on our riders and our drivers.
Speaker 12: That's sort of the big thing.
Speaker 11: But it's great that investors are responding so well to
Speaker 11: what it is that we're doing. Again, share buy back
Speaker 11: is great. You know, profitable growth, you know, quarter after quarter,
Speaker 11: that's great.
Speaker 12: And this is what I've always said, it's.
Speaker 11: Customer obsession that drives profitable growth, and we're sort of
Speaker 11: seeing that play out now.
Speaker 3: And that customer obsession drives innovation, drives autonomous vehicles. I
Speaker 3: know you're looking at Atlanta, You've got a partnership there.
Speaker 3: How much are you're going to see driverless vehicles automatically
Speaker 3: you're going to have safety drivers in the car.
Speaker 5: What is that going to look like as a pilot.
Speaker 11: Yeah, so this is a pilot that we're doing with
Speaker 11: main Mobility set back. Autonomous vehicles are going to come.
Speaker 11: Right they're here in San Francisco, you see them everywhere.
Speaker 11: They're obviously in La and Austin and other places as well.
Speaker 12: They'll come.
Speaker 11: It'll be many, many years before they're a big deal,
Speaker 11: but as they come, it's such a great opportunity for
Speaker 11: ride share and for a lyft because it allows us
Speaker 11: to you know, provide better service, you know, using different technologies.
Speaker 12: As you say, we'll be.
Speaker 11: Starting in Lantam in a couple of months, middle of
Speaker 11: the summer. We will start with a sort of a
Speaker 11: confidence driver, someone else in the car to kind of
Speaker 11: help make sure that people feel comfortable.
Speaker 12: With what's going on there.
Speaker 11: It'll be a fairly small scale pilot, but this is
Speaker 11: something it'll grow into Texas next year with a partnership
Speaker 11: with mobil I and others, and then we'll.
Speaker 12: Just keep building and building and building.
Speaker 11: To the point where drivers are driving millions of people
Speaker 11: and autonomous vehicles are driving millions of people as well.
Speaker 4: David, you're a technology CEO, and as such you must
Speaker 4: field questions on economics and the state of trade and travel.
Speaker 9: It's our favorite thing to do.
Speaker 4: Squ Uber reflected on the idea of cross border travel
Speaker 4: Canada into the US, the inbound travel into the US
Speaker 4: being soft business travel. People arrive at airports, are they
Speaker 4: or are they not doing ride share? What are you
Speaker 4: seeing through the consumer about the state of this economy.
Speaker 12: I don't say we're seeing strength. And I know a
Speaker 12: lot of people are trying to look granula where why?
Speaker 11: So I'll give you a couple of examples. Let's actually
Speaker 11: go back literally to earlier this week Sinkle demyle, right,
Speaker 11: that's not a holiday, that's necessarily a huge thing. But
Speaker 11: at the same time we saw one of our biggest
Speaker 11: sink of demios ever, it's a very very strong day.
Speaker 12: Let's go back to the end of March.
Speaker 11: Last week in March was actually our strongest week ever
Speaker 11: in terms of ride value. I think what we're seeing
Speaker 11: here is ride share has become a very sort of
Speaker 11: base staple part of so many people's lives that I
Speaker 11: don't really expect a sort of consumer sentiment fluctuates around
Speaker 11: to see that much difference. I'll talk about airports for
Speaker 11: just a second, because you asked airports basically quarter to
Speaker 11: quarter are flat. It is true, consumer, excuse me, the
Speaker 11: commute is going up faster, so if you look at
Speaker 11: it that way, consumer's growing a little bit faster.
Speaker 12: Excuse me, commute, I keep saying that.
Speaker 11: But you know, again, even when you look at airports, gosh,
Speaker 11: it's only one in five people use rightdchhair to get
Speaker 11: to reports in the first place. That means eighty percent
Speaker 11: is still out there for sort of the you know,
Speaker 11: the picking. So I think our big focus is trying
Speaker 11: to expand the market. I don't think that the macro
Speaker 11: stuff is a big deal right now for us.
Speaker 5: You're growing in Canada, David.
Speaker 3: And it's interesting I've asked this time and time again
Speaker 3: a start of IBM asked, a vouba ask of a view.
Speaker 3: Is there any impact from being an American brand going
Speaker 3: into a country such as Canada right now?
Speaker 5: Because we are hearing of pushback thirty seconds you know, it's.
Speaker 12: So interesting, No, is the real answer.
Speaker 11: In fact, we've just got authorization to open in Quebec,
Speaker 11: in the province of Quebec, which which we might have
Speaker 11: wondered whether it was going to happen given everything going on.
Speaker 11: So no, we've actually seen acceptance. Actually, Toronto's a big
Speaker 11: city for.
Speaker 3: Us, going super well, David Risher, so great to catch
Speaker 3: up with you Thinbous some the numbers.
Speaker 5: We appreciate it.
Speaker 11: Lift to see it is a pleasure, Thanks you guys.
Speaker 4: Pinterest ches up after the company reported second quarter revenue
Speaker 4: guidance that beat expectations and told analysts the platform was
Speaker 4: leveraging AI to attract advertisers. CEO Bill Ready spoke to Bloomberg.
Speaker 6: Earlier, pintresses where gen Z goes to shop.
Speaker 13: Gen Z is now our largest fastest growing demographic, over
Speaker 13: forty percent of our users. And you know they're coming
Speaker 13: here to shop. We're giving them a great shopping destination.
Speaker 13: But you know that has allowed us to deliver great
Speaker 13: performance for our advertisers. We've delivered a performance advertising platform
Speaker 13: where advertisers can get clicks and conversions and great performance.
Speaker 13: We're giving them AI enabled tools, so it's easier than
Speaker 13: ever for them to go create campaigns on Pinterest and
Speaker 13: see really great returns on that. So that's the other
Speaker 13: side of the business is that we've made Pinterest a
Speaker 13: shopping destination. Eighty five percent of our users come to
Speaker 13: us directly, and then we connect them with advertisers to
Speaker 13: make it really easy for advertisers to connect with those users.
Speaker 13: In this moment where they're in market looking for something
Speaker 13: to buy but haven't decided what to buy. That's a
Speaker 13: great moment for those two to meet, and we see
Speaker 13: that continue to accelerate. We're all time highs on users
Speaker 13: and all time highs on depth of engagement per user,
Speaker 13: really driven by AI and the personalization there and then
Speaker 13: how we're connecting shoppers and sellers.
Speaker 3: So, is that keeping the likes of Timu and Sin
Speaker 3: who a lot of those gen zs are going to
Speaker 3: buy on your platform?
Speaker 5: Is that sticking around because many had worried.
Speaker 3: Because of the towers, because of the difficulty accessing the
Speaker 3: US and consumer in terms of price point, what we'd
Speaker 3: see retrenchment in terms of ads from those companies.
Speaker 13: Yeah, Well, we're a global platform. You know, we're overre
Speaker 13: you know, five hundred and seventy million users. Eighty percent
Speaker 13: of those are outside the US, and so we noted
Speaker 13: as others that for Asian cross border sellers, you know,
Speaker 13: that has slowed down coming into the US, as others
Speaker 13: have noted as well. But we're seeing those sellers sell
Speaker 13: more globally and we're helping them to connect to other
Speaker 13: markets around the world. Here in the US consumers are resilient.
Speaker 13: You know, there's lots of public spending information that says
Speaker 13: that consumers are still shopping. We went through a major
Speaker 13: supply chain destruction just a few years ago during the pandemic,
Speaker 13: and you know, we all saw, you know, things are
Speaker 13: out of stock and consumers found other ways to buy,
Speaker 13: other things to buy.
Speaker 6: And we see that happening on our platform.
Speaker 13: That while you have things like budget conscious searches like
Speaker 13: you know, budget friendly recipes or you know budget you know,
Speaker 13: party decorations, budget party favors, and those kinds of things
Speaker 13: up two hundred percent plus here on here. People find
Speaker 13: substitute products, they find other ways to go sort of
Speaker 13: bring delight into their life, and we're a great place
Speaker 13: to help them do that, in a great place for
Speaker 13: advertisers to see these shifting consumer trends.
Speaker 3: Bill Ready speaking to us earlier, and let's just stick
Speaker 3: with earnings, with the consumer sentiment as well. Let's go
Speaker 3: to buy now, pay later company. A firm look shares
Speaker 3: our trading lower, but they actually increase guidance.
Speaker 5: A firm CEO, Max Livtin is.
Speaker 3: Here with US analysts calling this a knee jerk reaction
Speaker 3: and ultimately maybe some lofty expectations. But are you, like Bill,
Speaker 3: are you still seeing the consumer spending right now?
Speaker 14: We are, We really are, He's He's exactly at A
Speaker 14: couldn't agree more. US consumer has been resilient. They found
Speaker 14: new things to buy, new things to be excited about.
Speaker 14: We're seeing really strong growth, which is posted three six
Speaker 14: percent GMB growth and that's a third quarter in a
Speaker 14: row acceleration. So the rumors of US consumer decline are
Speaker 14: somewhat exaggerated, it seems.
Speaker 5: And maybe it's lofty expectations.
Speaker 3: I'm sure you're going to tell me you don't check
Speaker 3: in on the shares very much, but when you do
Speaker 3: see sentiment like this on the back of your numbers, what.
Speaker 5: Do you think investors are shying away from? Is it competition?
Speaker 12: You know?
Speaker 14: Hard for me to tell. I try not to check
Speaker 14: too often. I primarily care about it from the point
Speaker 14: of view of the team feeling that their hard work
Speaker 14: is actually understood by the market.
Speaker 6: And I think it.
Speaker 14: Took our consumers and our merchant partners about a decade
Speaker 14: to fully grasp just how different and how a creative
Speaker 14: we are to their sales, and just how powerful this
Speaker 14: whole new idea is and then it just happened. And
Speaker 14: so you know they say slowly at first, then all
Speaker 14: at once. That's my that's my hope for the market.
Speaker 9: Max. Hello, let's talk about Costco.
Speaker 4: You have this arrangement with Costco to allow a Costco
Speaker 4: costumer to pay over time. I am a Costco member
Speaker 4: and have a City credit card, and the benefit of
Speaker 4: the card is that it gives me five percent cash
Speaker 4: back on gas or four percent on groceries. Right, so
Speaker 4: I'm incentivized there. You and I've talked about this a lot, right,
Speaker 4: the sort of academic approach to whether you should put
Speaker 4: something or credit or not. Just explain how you think
Speaker 4: you're going to be competitive against Costco members like I
Speaker 4: with this offer.
Speaker 6: You know, I'm not sure I'm going to be competitive.
Speaker 14: I think Costco card, like everything offered a Costco, is
Speaker 14: a great value. And you know it's certainly not a
Speaker 14: thing we are trying to talk you out of if
Speaker 14: you are truly committed to it. We speak to a
Speaker 14: younger demo than a typical credit card consumer who is
Speaker 14: very miles towards et cetera.
Speaker 6: Conscious.
Speaker 14: They choose to borrow with a firm because they have
Speaker 14: a point of view on They don't like credit card debt.
Speaker 14: They want to know exactly the true cost of the
Speaker 14: thing they're buying. They want to know when they're out
Speaker 14: of debt and fully paid out. And they're less interested
Speaker 14: in rewards, much more interested in just transparency of pricing.
Speaker 14: And I think Costco understands that as they try to
Speaker 14: attract younger buyers, and that's why they partner with us.
Speaker 4: I am no longer in the younger demographic.
Speaker 6: And they're still you're still in a very young demographic.
Speaker 9: Max.
Speaker 4: You know the performance, you know, the top end of
Speaker 4: the guide was above consensus. Just where were the specific
Speaker 4: elements of strength for you? Is there anything you're doing
Speaker 4: on the technology side that's giving you a real advantage.
Speaker 14: No, it's very fashionable to flash your AI credentials, but
Speaker 14: we have built a really, really meaningful business entirely on
Speaker 14: the strength of AI and machine learning all these years
Speaker 14: underwriting consumers with alternative data, completely different approach to modeling,
Speaker 14: while of course remaining fully compliant with all the applicable laws.
Speaker 14: So we are a technology first company with real depth
Speaker 14: of approvals, while maintaining our core values to just no
Speaker 14: laid fees, no compounding, interest, no deferred interest, all the
Speaker 14: things that you sort of people love to complain about
Speaker 14: when they talk about credit cards. And that's given us
Speaker 14: real strength with the younger consumer gen Z. Just like
Speaker 14: Bill said, you know, we have a huge penetration into
Speaker 14: millennial demographic gen Zy demographic.
Speaker 6: That's what retailers come to us for.
Speaker 14: They want to attract this younger buyer who really does
Speaker 14: differentiate between Hey, I don't want to revolve.
Speaker 6: I don't want to.
Speaker 14: Think of this as a buy now, pay forever, which
Speaker 14: is you know what much much credit cards are?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Is that younger demographic? Is any of your demographic starting
Speaker 3: to use you more? Because the economic uncertainty is that
Speaker 3: what you actually anticipate going forward?
Speaker 6: It doesn't appear to be that way.
Speaker 14: I don't think we are gaining share because of economic uncertainty.
Speaker 6: You know, TVD.
Speaker 14: We're living in volatile moments, so who knows what's going
Speaker 14: to happen next. But right now our consumer comes to
Speaker 14: us more than anything for the clarity and the transparency.
Speaker 6: But most importantly, I think we are.
Speaker 14: Seeing increased growth right now because of all a zero
Speaker 14: percent offers that we're seeing that the work we're putting
Speaker 14: into the market right.
Speaker 9: Now a firm CEO, Max left Chin. Great to have
Speaker 9: you back with us. Thank you very much.
Speaker 5: Welcome back to Blue Meg Technology. I'm Caroline Hide in
Speaker 5: New York and.
Speaker 4: I met Ludlow in San Francisco. Let's look at the
Speaker 4: markets on the week and technology in particular, and as
Speaker 4: that one hundred as it stands very modestly in decline
Speaker 4: over the course of five days. Tariffs have been what's
Speaker 4: driving things. I just want to look at alphabet paran
Speaker 4: of Google right the doj antitrust remedy trial is one
Speaker 4: factor search considerations. Rivals coming out like Apple and saying
Speaker 4: this is what we plan to do in the search
Speaker 4: market is really impacted their stock on Wednesday, one hundred
Speaker 4: and forty seven billion dollars in market shed alone on aggregate,
Speaker 4: heading to about one hundred and twenty billion dollars a
Speaker 4: market cap decline. Later in the program, we'll get into it,
Speaker 4: and in terms of specific movers, we're going to go
Speaker 4: to the earnings context very shortly. But think about the
Speaker 4: strength that we're seeing in streaming Cara in particular, and
Speaker 4: then not just here in America, but we've got some
Speaker 4: interesting us from around the world.
Speaker 5: We did, and it's your world of gaming end.
Speaker 3: Because let's turn our attention to Nintendo projecting actually weaker
Speaker 3: than expected initial sales for the Switch too, despite overwhelming
Speaker 3: pre orders and market expectations that it would be the
Speaker 3: fastest selling console in history.
Speaker 5: Jason Schards joining us on what is this? You know?
Speaker 5: Off by three percent?
Speaker 3: They've got trade and tariff's to be thinking about. But Jason,
Speaker 3: why the slower than anticipated sales?
Speaker 9: Tariffs are the big one.
Speaker 8: Nobody knows what's going to happen.
Speaker 15: Nintendo included, they make the majority of switch tos that
Speaker 15: are sold in the US. They make in Vietnam, which
Speaker 15: is one of those tariffs that is still unpaused for
Speaker 15: ninety days according to President Trump. So I guess we'll
Speaker 15: see what happens there. The other factor is supply shortage.
Speaker 15: That's always a question surrounding the release of these new consoles.
Speaker 15: How many can they actually manufacture and get to US shores,
Speaker 15: whether or without tariffs.
Speaker 4: There's definitely a technology conversation had with the Switch to
Speaker 4: right inside of it is a high performance and video
Speaker 4: processor that takes the Switch to from being a kind
Speaker 4: of lower fidelity, lower performance console to being more on
Speaker 4: par with PlayStation and Xbox. You know what is going
Speaker 4: to be different this time around for the Switch, Like culturally,
Speaker 4: how do you think people will approach what it can
Speaker 4: do and the types of games you can play on it.
Speaker 15: It's interesting this issue comes out of a really fascinating
Speaker 15: time for the video game industry in that graphical Fideli
Speaker 15: has not really gotten that much more impressive over the
Speaker 15: last four or five years. So Nintendo is pretty well
Speaker 15: positioned even with technology that is a few years old
Speaker 15: at this point, even technology that is five six years old,
Speaker 15: it is in a good position to still sell games
Speaker 15: and compete with the other two consoles. I mean, the
Speaker 15: other big factor is that people buy Nintendo consoles for
Speaker 15: Nintendo games. They want Mario, they want Zelda. Mario Kart World,
Speaker 15: which is launching alongside the Switch too, is expected to
Speaker 15: sell a kajillion copies of the last one sold over
Speaker 15: seventy million units alone. So we're talking about a customer
Speaker 15: base that is built in and doesn't care quite as
Speaker 15: much about graphics, about the highest end GTA level games
Speaker 15: as much as they do about these franchises that are
Speaker 15: really always consistently good bluebags.
Speaker 4: Jason Schreyer, who leads our video games industry coverage.
Speaker 9: Great to have you on the show. Thank you very much.
Speaker 4: Let's stick with earning shares of Trade Desk for flirting
Speaker 4: with the best day in more than two years, getting
Speaker 4: a boost from better than expected q ON results and
Speaker 4: upbeat forecasts. The best performer on the Nasdaq one hundred
Speaker 4: in terms of percentage gain. Laura Martin, Media, Senior Entertainment Analyst,
Speaker 4: joint US. Now, now let me do this. What is
Speaker 4: trade desk?
Speaker 9: What does it do and does it do it well?
Speaker 16: What an excellent question.
Speaker 17: Okay, So Trade Desk is a demand side platform, a DSP,
Speaker 17: and so when you load a web page of a
Speaker 17: news article you're watching, Trade Desk delivers an AD in
Speaker 17: real time in milliseconds, and that ad has actually gone
Speaker 17: to auction in those milliseconds because they know who you are,
Speaker 17: and they know how much money you make, and they
Speaker 17: know that you're in the financial industry. So your AD
Speaker 17: units that are getting served to you in milliseconds are
Speaker 17: very valuable, much more valuable than like, you know, my kids,
Speaker 17: who earns no money and lives at home. So Trade
Speaker 17: Desk delivers those in milliseconds, having bought them at auction
Speaker 17: and they represent the largest two hundred advertisers. I think
Speaker 17: technically they have, you know, four thousand ad buyers, but
Speaker 17: they only represent ad buyers typically top of funnel without
Speaker 17: a performance metric associated with it.
Speaker 3: They're doing strategy, got grades Kokai, they say, is giving
Speaker 3: them more power than ever. It's interesting, Lad, They're obviously
Speaker 3: delivering on a technology front, but there's got to be
Speaker 3: a resilient desire to be advertising this moment. We've seen
Speaker 3: that from Meta, We've just seen it from Pinterest as well.
Speaker 3: From your perspective, is the advertisers, the marketerstre willing to
Speaker 3: spend in this environment.
Speaker 17: So every company has now reported earnings on every call
Speaker 17: they've gotten. Asked since April second, terraffs, have you seen downdraft?
Speaker 17: And with a couple exceptions, everybody else has said no.
Speaker 17: Trade desk said no. To date, it's been five weeks
Speaker 17: since April second, they have not seen downdraft other than
Speaker 17: in areas like autos or home appliances is down like
Speaker 17: forty percent with one company I talked to since April second,
Speaker 17: and you guys probably saw like the ports are empty.
Speaker 17: They've turned around these container ship carriers and they're going
Speaker 17: back home rather than try to empty in the ports
Speaker 17: and pay the tariffs. So I think this might be
Speaker 17: a gathering storm. But so far Trade Desk has not
Speaker 17: seen impact.
Speaker 9: Of Terras Laura.
Speaker 4: This week in Europe we had the semi final of
Speaker 4: the Champions League, which makes me think about Paramount. You know,
Speaker 4: just as a case study, they showed some streaming strength,
Speaker 4: but on aggregate, what have you learned about the streaming
Speaker 4: landscape this far and particularly consumer attitudes to all of
Speaker 4: the platforms available to them?
Speaker 17: Right, so we can talk about dizz Disney, Warner Brothers,
Speaker 17: Discovery and Paramount like all together big streamers, which is
Speaker 17: the source of question. But from a stock point of view, first,
Speaker 17: I just want to make a distinction because Paramount revenue
Speaker 17: felt ten percent, Warner Brothers fell six percent, and both
Speaker 17: of them were projecting negative four percent revenue growth this
Speaker 17: year and flat next year, which begs the question why
Speaker 17: do you need to be in these now because they're
Speaker 17: still not growing. Disney, by contrast, revenue up seven percent.
Speaker 17: We're showing revenue up four percent this year and four
Speaker 17: percent next year. A lot of that is driven by streaming,
Speaker 17: so that's where I get to the answer to your question.
Speaker 17: A lot of that is driven by you know, not
Speaker 17: only does Disney have better have more diversity of assets,
Speaker 17: of course, but it also has better films, which helps.
Speaker 17: Although films less than fifteen percent of the business at
Speaker 17: Walt Disney these days, but streaming is what's really driving
Speaker 17: that outperformance compared to Paramount, compared to Warner Brothers, Paramount
Speaker 17: has the overhang of can it's deal get done? That's
Speaker 17: a big that's a big like cloud on Paramount. But
Speaker 17: the fundamentals of streaming are a bright spot. But if
Speaker 17: you can't make good films or you can't sell good TV,
Speaker 17: it's you have a big linear TV business, which both
Speaker 17: Paramount does and Warner Brothers Discovery does.
Speaker 16: Like it's a problem, right because it's a shrinking to guests.
Speaker 3: I mean, also, what's the problem is if you're suddenly
Speaker 3: going to have massive costs on your movies going well anywhere,
Speaker 3: being able to make content abroad, being able to bring
Speaker 3: foreign made produced content into the United States that has
Speaker 3: been proposed by the administration seems to be hurting the
Speaker 3: very industry that they're trying to protect. Right now, what
Speaker 3: is the impact on paramount. What is the impact on
Speaker 3: Disney if this does go into full.
Speaker 17: Force, right, No, it's an excellent point because he is
Speaker 17: trying to help the industry. But as you know, films
Speaker 17: take three years to make, so the tariffs immediately would
Speaker 17: hurt a film that started three years ago before this
Speaker 17: policy existed, before the companies could react. So every film
Speaker 17: trying to come back to America that's been made offshore,
Speaker 17: whether it's tax advantage or not.
Speaker 16: You watch Mission Impossible.
Speaker 17: They are going for the tax breaks, right, They're going
Speaker 17: for these really exotic locations, and they don't like money.
Speaker 16: Isn't the reason they're off shore. They're off sure for
Speaker 16: the art of it, like for where, like.
Speaker 17: The plot line. So now those films are coming back
Speaker 17: over the next two years, and they're all going to
Speaker 17: be taxed at one hundred percent Like that is not
Speaker 17: helpful for the industry.
Speaker 4: I mentioned it at the top of the block about
Speaker 4: alphabet and Google. Right, it's been an astonishing week frankly
Speaker 4: about revelation in the antitrust context.
Speaker 9: You focus on YouTube historically.
Speaker 4: When we talk about the streamers, but just in that
Speaker 4: antitrust context, have you sort of recalculated remodeled. The future
Speaker 4: you see for Alphabet and its various properties largely search.
Speaker 16: Yeah, like our policies.
Speaker 17: You know, we do evaluation of YouTube as a standalone
Speaker 17: entity every single quarter this company.
Speaker 16: My opinion is Google is worth more.
Speaker 17: On Alphabet is worth more in pieces than it is
Speaker 17: together because it's my opinion that people within the Alphabet
Speaker 17: holding company framework get subsidized by search, so they are
Speaker 17: not required to make money as if they're a general
Speaker 17: manager of their P and L. I think the best
Speaker 17: thing that could happen for ad Tech is for them
Speaker 17: to be forced at the September hearing to spin off
Speaker 17: the ad server and the SSP their supply side, which
Speaker 17: is the marriage piece to prade desperate cert. If they
Speaker 17: got that would be really great for ATIK. It would
Speaker 17: also be good for not the Google perimeter that stayed behind,
Speaker 17: but the Google asset. The managers that happen to have
Speaker 17: to to compete for the first time and not get
Speaker 17: the benefit of being tied to search data and YouTube data,
Speaker 17: which is best in class like consumer data. So and
Speaker 17: I think the more Alphabet gets smaller, the more they
Speaker 17: can focus on what matters, which is solving the search problem.
Speaker 17: Now that AI is here and making sure YouTube remains
Speaker 17: the number one streamer on Earth.
Speaker 3: Laura Martin, It's always great to catch up with you.
Speaker 3: Happy weekend speech.
Speaker 5: You see. We hope of Needham appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, coming up, more earnings, more CEOs, Draftking CEO Jason
Speaker 3: Robbins joins us discuss the company and will slightly cut
Speaker 3: to its guide as a Bluebote technology.
Speaker 4: Draftking shares rising, with investors shrugging off the company's reduced
Speaker 4: full year guidance after a customer friendly March Madness weight
Speaker 4: on sales. Draftking CEO Jason Robbins delighted, say joins us.
Speaker 4: There has been some, let's say, back of the Napkin
Speaker 4: math and people look at the revenue forecast being lowered
Speaker 4: by about two hundred million dollars. Right, Bear with me, Jason,
Speaker 4: Is that exactly how much Draft Kings lost on March Madness,
Speaker 4: the two.
Speaker 9: Hundred million dollar figure.
Speaker 18: No, we actually put out the numbers.
Speaker 19: We have a bridge in our earnings materials.
Speaker 18: It was a little bit less, but overall it's not
Speaker 18: too far off.
Speaker 3: Okay, talk to us a little bit about what's too
Speaker 3: far off as well? What else is driving perhaps an
Speaker 3: expected downgrade in full year guidance. Analysts seem to be
Speaker 3: taking as well on the chin as our investors, but
Speaker 3: the regulatory environment as well.
Speaker 5: How much you haven't in you once for that?
Speaker 18: Well, what we we put this out there. We had
Speaker 18: about one hundred and seventy million from sport outcomes and
Speaker 18: then thirty million came from jack Pocket being caused to
Speaker 18: not be operating anymore in Texas. But then the overall
Speaker 18: fundamentals of the business were actually very strong. We saw
Speaker 18: increased to structural hold rate, our promotional efficiency increase, so
Speaker 18: some of those things offset as well. So really the
Speaker 18: fundamentals of the business are about as healthy as can be.
Speaker 18: And I think the real question is will all these
Speaker 18: sport outcomes turn around in two quarters in a row now?
Speaker 18: But obviously that happens, and that's part of the greatness
Speaker 18: of the product is that customers can win and they
Speaker 18: can go on winning streaks like this, and it makes
Speaker 18: it a lot of fun obviously, and you know, we'll
Speaker 18: see it was the first time and I think second
Speaker 18: time ever there were all four number one seeds in
Speaker 18: the final four. Only the first time ever that that
Speaker 18: happened with also all twos in one three seed in
Speaker 18: the Elite eight, So you never know, maybe there will
Speaker 18: be another year like that, but probably not.
Speaker 19: It was more likely an anomaly.
Speaker 18: And you know NBA playoffs already have had a bunch
Speaker 18: of upsets, so it tends to kind of swing.
Speaker 19: Around the other way over time.
Speaker 5: Ah, too much consistency.
Speaker 3: But what also is consistent, Jason, is what a massive
Speaker 3: jump in your monthly active uses when you talk about
Speaker 3: the Jackpot in particular, and I'm interested in how jackpocket
Speaker 3: is transferring to other sports, casino games and the likes
Speaker 3: or are people sticking to that lottery application.
Speaker 18: Well, the jackpocket is still very early in its growth,
Speaker 18: it's still quite nascent, so we believe there's a ton
Speaker 18: of upside for that business and we're excited about it.
Speaker 18: We haven't fully integrated it into the DraftKings app yet,
Speaker 18: we haven't put it on our platform yet, which should
Speaker 18: dramatically increase both the conversion metrics and also the cross
Speaker 18: sellability and marketing ability. And the cross sells already well
Speaker 18: above our expectations, so we think there's even more upside there,
Speaker 18: so we're pretty excited about it. We think there's a
Speaker 18: lot of growth potential, but it's still small, so the
Speaker 18: overall impact on the business isn't great yet, but hopefully
Speaker 18: that changes as Jackpocket continues to grow.
Speaker 4: Jason, in your industry, there are big almost legacy names
Speaker 4: Las Vegas Sands, for example, that are pulling out of
Speaker 4: bids for land based casinos, and I wonder how much
Speaker 4: you can assess their nervousness that online gambling just cannibalizes
Speaker 4: demand for land base and how that impacts you.
Speaker 18: Well, it's certainly a perception that we have to fight
Speaker 18: because it's out there. I do think that the facts
Speaker 18: are very mixed on that. While there's certainly some examples
Speaker 18: you can point to where there's been you know, diminishing
Speaker 18: markets where they've had online gaming, it's also you know
Speaker 18: often where there have been declines going into that, and
Speaker 18: then you see the complete opposite story in states like
Speaker 18: New Jersey where they grew and really reversed a declining
Speaker 18: trend for years after legalizing online gaming. And it's also
Speaker 18: a different property to property. I do understand though, why
Speaker 18: if you're a company that has no ie gaming play
Speaker 18: right now, doesn't have an app, doesn't have a way
Speaker 18: to make money off of it, that this wouldn't be
Speaker 18: seen as any upside for you, and so naturally, you know,
Speaker 18: if there's no upside there, there can only be downside.
Speaker 19: And I do understand that.
Speaker 18: But I think the amount of cannibalization and the downside
Speaker 18: has been greatly exaggerated and we need to do a
Speaker 18: good job, or a better job, I should say, educate
Speaker 18: on that, because the numbers don't necessarily support that story.
Speaker 3: Jason Robbins, Draftking CEO, thanks so much for joining us today.
Speaker 5: I appreciate it. Thank you foring wow, we're going.
Speaker 3: To look with Sticking with sports, we also just caught
Speaker 3: up with David Beckham's former teammate Gary Neville. After the
Speaker 3: two partner up, they recommitted to buying Saltford City Football
Speaker 3: Club alongside global advisor and investment platform can Seller Group
Speaker 3: and a whole host of other business executives. Now, Neville
Speaker 3: spoke about the importance of content as well as pitch
Speaker 3: performance to take it all the way to the Championship
Speaker 3: League in the next five years.
Speaker 5: Take a listen you.
Speaker 20: Refer to Obviously Wrexham THEYD done a great job there
Speaker 20: over the last few years. But we've been in Salford
Speaker 20: now for ten years. We had a documentary nine years ago,
Speaker 20: I think the very first fly on the Wall documentary
Speaker 20: of a football club that was on the BBC and
Speaker 20: used to get millions of people watching it. We definitely
Speaker 20: want to revisit that type of model and grow commercial revenues,
Speaker 20: but doing it in such a way whereby football is
Speaker 20: always deemed as a priority, and you know, there is
Speaker 20: great excitement on the ground here. It's a new injection
Speaker 20: of life into Salford City.
Speaker 5: On Bloomberg dot com ed, the.
Speaker 4: Federal Trade Commission has spent the past month presenting evidence
Speaker 4: to show the social media giant Meta should be broken up,
Speaker 4: and testimony from more big names.
Speaker 9: Is expected in the coming weeks.
Speaker 4: Bloombo's Riley Griffin is out on the East Coast in
Speaker 4: DC tracking what's going on.
Speaker 9: What is the latest?
Speaker 4: You know, there are so many headlines that come out
Speaker 4: over the course of the process based on people's testimony.
Speaker 4: It's hard to say where, like net we stand right now.
Speaker 21: Well, we are at the midpoint of the trial. We
Speaker 21: expect potentially next week or the week thereafter, Meta to
Speaker 21: begin in earnest its defense. But what we saw just
Speaker 21: yesterday was Instagram chief Adam musserri defending Meta against the FTC,
Speaker 21: which is making the claim that Meta has dominated the
Speaker 21: friends and family market that means social media that is
Speaker 21: focused on connecting with your friends. It's a tough case
Speaker 21: ahead because, as Adam Asseri said, TikTok has emerged as
Speaker 21: a primary competitor and they are more focused on entertainment.
Speaker 3: Ronnie, there's evidence that was shown at this trial that
Speaker 3: you're not always being recommended to connect with your friends
Speaker 3: or your family, and groomers have been presented as being
Speaker 3: actually shown and recommended children to connect with. This is
Speaker 3: an a document that Meta itself had done an investigation.
Speaker 5: With Yes in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 21: Meta internal documents identified groomers, a term that they were
Speaker 21: using to define child predators were being served miners as
Speaker 21: suggested follows on Instagram. They found that seven percent twenty
Speaker 21: seven percent of the follow suggestions made to this cohort
Speaker 21: of potential child predators were foreign miners.
Speaker 5: And this came up from the.
Speaker 21: FTC, which was trying to and straight that Meta's acquisition
Speaker 21: of Instagram had actually degraded the quality of the app.
Speaker 3: Now, it must be said that twenty nineteen is several
Speaker 3: years ago, and now in twenty twenty five. They have
Speaker 3: made a lot of steps in terms of child protection
Speaker 3: and teen safety, but fully into it for you to
Speaker 3: bring us that story, Riley Griffin, thank you and.
Speaker 5: All things meta.
Speaker 3: But let's turn to the case that's been gripping the
Speaker 3: tech world too. And it's the final day of the
Speaker 3: arguments in a trial to determine how or if to
Speaker 3: break up Google search monopoly. Jos Cisco joins us now
Speaker 3: and just wrap it up for us in terms of
Speaker 3: where you think the balance lies now. Have they managed
Speaker 3: to show to the court that search is being so
Speaker 3: disrupted at this moment that perhaps they don't need to
Speaker 3: unwind some of their payments that they put to Apple
Speaker 3: for example.
Speaker 22: I think the judge is fairly skeptical of Google's argument
Speaker 22: so far. Whether he wants to go so far as
Speaker 22: to break up the company and force them to sell
Speaker 22: off off Chrome, I think that's sort of up in
Speaker 22: the air. But this idea of cutting off the money flow,
Speaker 22: I mean, he found in his ruling last year that
Speaker 22: the payments were anti competitive, so it's hard to imagine
Speaker 22: that he wouldn't want to stop sort of cut off
Speaker 22: that money flow. At the very minimum.
Speaker 4: A lot of the headlines been driven by partners and
Speaker 4: competitors testimony. What has been for you the biggest headline
Speaker 4: about how some of those witnesses have described the market
Speaker 4: and how they think this should be resolved.
Speaker 9: So there's all.
Speaker 22: The trial has been very forward looking because the Justice
Speaker 22: Department wants to sort of prevent Google from getting a
Speaker 22: monopoly in the next iteration, the next generation of search,
Speaker 22: which is generative AI, and so there's been a lot
Speaker 22: of testimony from companies like open Ai and Perplexity, and
Speaker 22: even at Apple as well about how they want to
Speaker 22: incorporate those types of products into the search, into their
Speaker 22: browsers and their search engines. And Apple was sort of
Speaker 22: which benefits immensely from Google's payments to something like twenty
Speaker 22: billion dollars a year or more. They were sort of
Speaker 22: it was very interesting to see them kind of downplay
Speaker 22: the importance of Google's like current search product, their core product,
Speaker 22: and play up the future of search being AI, which
Speaker 22: I don't think.
Speaker 9: Is wrong, but they also have a lot to.
Speaker 22: Lose if they if those payments are cut off, so
Speaker 22: they don't want they want to make Google's current products
Speaker 22: seem less important, so the judge will leave.
Speaker 4: It alone alphabet on course to shed one hundred and
Speaker 4: thirty billion dollars in market cap this week alone. Bloomba's justisco,
Speaker 4: thank you very much. That does it for this edition
Speaker 4: A balloon bag technology character, it does.
Speaker 5: What a week?
Speaker 3: What a week of turbulence around tariffs. We have much
Speaker 3: anticipated going into the Chinese negotiations, but look at what's
Speaker 3: happened to Bitcoin ed over the last five training days,
Speaker 3: up more than seven percent.
Speaker 5: We clipsed that one hundred one thousand dollars mark as well.
Speaker 5: It's risk on there. Don't forget to check out our podcast.
Speaker 5: This is Brumo Technology