WEBVTT - Where To Invest $10,000 Right Now 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:09.760 Welcome new Trillions. I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric bell 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:14.720 Tunas Eric, We've got a couple of colleagues we've been 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:17.560 on the show before, Ben Stepherman and Suzanne Woollye. You 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:21.239 might remember them from our great March Madness. Best ticker 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:25.560 contest been one, Yeah, Ben, one with empty, which is 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:27.280 the sort of death of the moll E t f 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:31.639 It it basically shorts mallstocks and uh, and he did 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:33.280 say it was a long term play because it hasn't 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:37.200 done well lately. It's down ten percent since he made 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:40.280 the call. And he bounced Suzanne Woolley with Move, which 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:44.360 is up now five pc since that contest. Yeah. Move, 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.040 It's interesting. Moves traditionally been thought of as the greatest 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:50.599 ticker of all time, but uh, not that day. It's 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:54.000 so sad and so unjust. So we welcome them back 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:58.200 to trillions. Uh. They work on Bloomberg News with me 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:01.760 ericson Bloomberg. Can tell back before I was in b 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:05.039 I I was in data and Suzanne Um. I was 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:08.520 contributing articles to Suzanne and the Personal Finance. You started 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:12.840 a blog, right it was you did so many great pieces. 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:15.200 We were like way ahead of the curve, and I 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:17.640 got approval from Data to submit articles this blog when 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:20.880 the blog ended, but then you allowed me to submit 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:25.000 articles because I just I used to be a financial journalist, 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:26.600 so I missed doing it. And then when I went 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:28.760 to b I that got shut down. They want all 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:33.760 my stuff to be sort of creative idea like the Radiohead. 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:37.360 She green lighted the Radiohead article, which became that one 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:41.880 episode of our Top Performing. But this episode of Trillions 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:44.440 is not about us. It's about you, guys, because you 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:48.560 also do uh something that's updated quarterly on Bloomberg dot 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:53.600 com that's called where to Invest ten thousand dollars right now. 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:57.240 It's so catchy, like it just makes you want to 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:02.160 click on it right now, give me the goods. It's 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:04.680 a it's a little it's got a tinge of BuzzFeed. 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:07.520 I know, I know it's true, a e t s 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:09.840 you should own and stop, you know, worrying about it. 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:13.640 And we always give advice about, you know, checking your portfolio, 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:19.200 checking your risks. You get the yeah, here's some spinach. Yeah, 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:21.959 the spinach first, and then it's like, I don't know hallapeno. 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:28.560 So in this episode of Tryans, we're to invest ten 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:33.560 tho dollars right now. Okay, so I really want to 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:36.600 know where I'm supposed to invest ten thousand dollars right now. Also, 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:38.400 if you have any insights on how I can get 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:41.240 ten thousand dollars right now, that'd be great too. But 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:43.920 before we kind of get into that, let's also just 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:46.160 take a step back and talk about what what's been 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:48.160 happening in the markets right now, because things got a 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:50.800 little bloody for a second. Yeah, the market went down 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.360 quite a bit last week, um and seems to be 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.640 coming back now. UM. I talked to a lot of 0:02:57.639 --> 0:02:59.960 investors about it, and some of them were really brue 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:04.040 leaved because the valuations right now are just so high. 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.080 So if you're just if you're a professional, this might 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.240 be scary. But if you actually have your money, your 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.560 retirement money in the market, and you're that money is 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:13.160 coming out of your paycheck and go into your four 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:15.880 oh one K and you're buying at these prices, it 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:18.799 looks like there's not any good places to put your money. 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:21.600 You know. People keep saying, oh, emerging markets are this 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:26.040 great value, and then they've been really painful, really been 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.400 really tough. And then the US docks look great, but 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:30.560 they just look at the valuations. They're really high and 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:32.680 it doesn't look like you're gonna get my much return 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:35.320 from them. So it's like a relief rally, a bit 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:37.880 of a deep breath. But it's interesting because the market 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.920 has been going up for a long time. None of 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:43.720 the people you spoke with, you know, have this feeling that, Okay, 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:45.800 this is the big one. The market's really going to 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.160 go down now. It sounds like if everybody has that attitude, 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:51.120 that's exactly why these have really short bottoms. They can't. 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:55.080 They really bounced back very quickly. But when when it 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:57.640 was happening, it felt like, especially on Twitter, I mean, 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:00.480 the bears were coming out doing touchdown dances where you 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:02.480 know where all the bulls now and then boom, three 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.480 days later, we're back to normalcy. Right. I was. Actually 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:07.920 I was in Oklahoma, so I was out of the bubble. 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.240 I was reporting a story and I nobody mentioned the market. 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:14.640 The economy seemed to be doing amazingly. Everywhere I looked 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:17.839 there was new development, new new building, and um, I 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:21.760 think there's a mood talking to these investors, like they 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.440 see the economy and they just can't imagine a real 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:27.440 bear market in these economic conditions because it just feels 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:30.080 so good right now. On the flip side, let's face it, 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:32.280 the stock market went up for a little while when 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:36.080 the economy was a little was struggling. More so, can 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:38.440 the stock market still go up now the economy is good? 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:41.440 In other words, how much can stocks just go up 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:43.880 and up? People I talked to were like, Oh, I 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:46.360 don't think it'll be another It'll be another year before 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:49.720 it really crashes. But then again, like what's your risk 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.400 return here? Like? How much further can it really go up? 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:54.880 I don't think people feel like it's good. They're gonna 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:56.680 lose a lot of money right now, but they don't 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:59.440 see themselves making a lot of money either. So been 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.680 with the people that you spoke with? Did they view 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:07.920 this last little spasm as a buying opportunity? Um? Yeah, 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:11.080 a few people did. Nobody was panicking, that's for sure. 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.960 Some people were investing more. I actually worry about some 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:16.240 of the people I was talking to you. I mean, 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.479 there's a lot of folks in their sixties and seventies 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:23.719 who are stocks stock stocks. So if the market actually 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:28.479 does go down, um, and they're on the verge of retirement, 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.359 they're actually in some trouble. So I actually do worry 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:34.760 about now that we're this many years into this bowl market, 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:37.040 where how far out on a ledge and a lot 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.320 of folks are. I agree, because there's some really pretty 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:43.760 subpower estimates for the SMP going forward over the next decade. 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:47.440 I think morning Star respects real you know, injusted inflation 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:51.080 adjusted returns of something like one point five percent or 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:54.039 two or I think maybe even lower. So if you 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:57.080 get whacked in a downturn and you don't have time 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:01.279 to recover, it's it's a really dangerous thing to have 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:04.320 happened early in retirement because you just it's very hard 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:10.840 to earn that money back. Okay, so let's get to 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.720 the goods. I got ten dollars, would always spend it. 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:19.760 Oh sorry, invested, that's a totally different article. Yeah, we'll 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:23.840 do that next a fun weekend. Well, if you're a 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:28.799 russ Coast rich um at black Rock, you would look 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:33.359 at cheap Asian equities. He thinks Japan is cheap, and 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:37.039 Japan is usually trades little cheaply, but he thinks, you know, 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:40.240 there's a good reason now why it shouldn't be trading 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:44.520 at such a discount, and he also likes UM stocks 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:49.400 in South Korea. And what do you like about South Korea? Well, 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:53.760 South Korean equities, he said, UM are not only like 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:59.000 the cheapest equities in the emerging markets, but even looking 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:02.560 across like aquity is sovereign debt credit there by some 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:05.599 measures the cheapest asset class. So really it's just the 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:10.080 pure cheapness I think as opposed to the real fundamental 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.200 And Eric, you got a ticker that gives me some 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:15.840 exposure there, yes, so on on these articles, I will 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:17.560 give the e t F to play it. I picked 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:20.120 e w J. I mean rust works at black Rock. 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:21.960 It's also the most liquid. E w J is a 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:25.640 big Japan et F. However, if you are more cost 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:28.360 conscious and don't need that liquidity, there's a whole new 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.960 The fee war has broken out everywhere, including Japan, so 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.440 you can get the Franklin foot see Japan ETF for 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:37.480 nine basis points. Now, I mean that's Van Guardian level 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:40.640 and the JP Morgan b b j P which is 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:43.280 nineteen basis points, and they effectively do the same thing. 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:45.720 But some investors like the currency hedge in Japan, d 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.120 x J was a huge hit, which it's actually doing 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:49.720 a little better than a W J because the dollar 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:51.040 has gotten strong. So if you think the dollar is 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.400 gonna be strong, you might want a currency hedge over there. 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:55.800 But also one of the interesting thing that Japan and 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.920 South Korea, Um, you know a lot of these Asian 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:01.320 countries and Japan aren't in an E t F together. 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:04.360 It's it's weird. There's like emerging market Asia E t 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:07.600 F S, then there's Japan, Asia X Japan. It was 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:09.640 tough to find them all together. So you could do 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.760 E w J plus A x J. A x J 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:16.480 is a Asia E t F that is X Japan. 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.760 So it has China, South Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan or 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:24.480 v A. The vanguard Developed Developed International has Japan, and 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.160 it also considers South Korea developed, so it's in there. 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:29.560 So you get both in that. But then again you 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:31.040 get a lot of other countries with that too. I 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:35.120 love that South Korea is still not always considered a 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:37.920 developed market. It's still emerging. It's like, I know, you 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.959 go there and it's like, are you kidding me? This 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:43.400 is like more advanced than the US. When I when 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.120 I was writing at this, uh, this piece up both 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:48.560 you know my editor and the copy editor asked me 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:52.160 to check that South Korea was indeed classified as that emerging. 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:57.160 So is Russ a recurring character? Yes, So that's part 0:08:57.200 --> 0:09:00.240 of this exercise. You've got this little panel. Every order 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:02.000 you go back to them and say, what are we 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:05.120 going to buy a ten thousand dollars with right now? Yep? Yep? 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:11.079 So how was Russ's last time? Last time? What did Russ? Um? 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:15.559 He said, the same thing emerging Asia Pacific. He's the 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:21.720 same thing last quarter. He You know, Russ is literally 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:27.120 you know, I can't always get them to change things. 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.800 So we got five, We've done one. Who's number two. 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:38.840 We've got Sarah Ketterer. She's with Causeway Capital and she 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:42.760 thinks that a that value may finally start to triumph 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:46.400 over growth, which is would be a really big change, 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:51.080 which I don't believe. Eric agrees with no. Right, it 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:53.800 has to come back essentially, someone on Twitter the Day 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:55.960 some time in our lifetimes, yeah, right, at some point 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.840 someone on Twitter the Day said what song best describes 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:01.600 like value investing right now? And the answers were epic. 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:06.000 They were like, everybody hurts, don't stop believing. Um. There 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:08.480 was some classics on there, and I realized that a 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.520 lot of songs are about pain, and that's what value 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:13.760 investing is about. It's about how long can you take 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:18.640 the pain? But eventually you'll be right. The question is when, yeah, 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:24.640 can you last that long? But anyway, Sarah um liked 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:29.280 Global consumer staples and she actually chose uh tobacco stocks 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.480 within the staples, which she, you know, said as the 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:38.079 most maligned and possibly misunderstood segment. Obviously an unhealthy segment. 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:42.679 But she thinks that combustible traditional cigarettes are gonna go away, 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:46.240 more people are gonna start vaping, which we're seeing, not 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:49.080 that that's healthy might do, but and that you know, 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:54.720 while the regulations about around vaping get established, the smaller 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.120 entrants are going to have a harder time, you know, 0:10:57.160 --> 0:10:59.520 with the costs of that greater regulation. So it gives 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:03.760 the income been big tobacco companies and Edge and Eric, 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:08.280 I think you found sort of a dividend index because 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.360 part of what part of her argument was to find 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.679 high dividend yielding stocks. So how did you screen for that? 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.480 This was a tough one. Most of them are pretty easy, 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:18.200 to be honest with you, which is good because I'm 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:21.679 usually doing this in a rush, but this one was hard. Um. 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.520 I think I did a screen for it um dividend 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.920 fun with at least such and such in staples, and 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.199 this one came to the top. I started kicking it around. 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:31.959 I'm like, you know what, this is pretty perfect. It's 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.640 the first Trust morning Star Dividend Leaders FDL. It screens 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:39.280 for stocks that have dividend consistency. Then it picks the 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:43.080 hundred highest yielding names. It's heavy consumer staples and big 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:46.160 tobacco companies are in the top ten holdings. And it's 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:48.240 got it. It's pretty good one point four billion, so 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:51.199 it's got nice tight spreads, very liquid charges point four 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:54.080 or so. It seemed to fit the bill for what 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:56.240 she was looking for. Ben, how do you feel about 0:11:56.240 --> 0:12:00.320 investing in tobacco? Oh? I was actually thinking about dividend 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.920 stocks and how I might not want to invest in 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:07.120 those either. Tobacco it seems like too narrow a play 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:09.200 to me. It just seems like for me, for me, 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:11.680 I'd like to be more diversified. But with dividends, I 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:13.520 was thinking, like, what do you get like a two 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:16.440 percent yield? Like rates are arising, Like you can do 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:18.400 better with bonds and that's a lot safer, Like why 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:22.240 why why why the dividend play now much less risk? 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:25.840 You know, the FDL I think it it yielded a 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:29.640 three point four percent So still though, I see what 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.640 you're saying. These you know, we looked recently, you know, 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:35.400 a lot of dividend e t F yield less than 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:37.480 the tenure Now, I mean it's a lot of them, 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.760 including big ones. So the ones that yield more typically 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:43.760 tip into utilities and staples, so you definitely have this 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:47.240 rate risk more with those. So it's a you're right, 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.000 there's much more risk. They look very innocent, don't they. Yeah, 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.800 it's it's this play that we've heard about for years 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:55.360 and years and years. You know, it's safe, you know, 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.480 dividend stocks, But but do you lend that could change 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:01.160 These people in Oklahoma that you talked to, you said 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:03.240 they're heavy equities. Do you think part of the heavy 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.839 equities is going into high dividend yielding stocks to make 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:08.920 up for the fact that they couldn't get yields. And 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:10.960 I think that's totally true. They didn't want to be 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:12.520 in bonds and they didn't want to be in cash 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.760 because they saw that losing out to you know, to 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.040 to inflation, Like they couldn't keep up with inflation with 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:21.840 some of that stuff, and and now they have other alternatives, 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:33.160 I think, okay. Number three. Number three is Ann Harnett, 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:37.120 who is the chief investimate strategist at Absolute Strategy Research. 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:42.280 He's out of London, and his idea, his favorite move 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.559 is to go along on treasuries. Um. We've obviously seen 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:50.160 a lot of turmolent treasuries lately. Um, and this one, 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:52.600 this was the one that seemed a little a little 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:56.800 um out of step with the news cycle. Yeah, yeah, 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.560 that's true, but um, you know, he really he thinks 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:03.959 that people should go by long dated bonds all the 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.920 way up to the thirty year with fields close to 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:09.560 three point four per cent. You know. He points out 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.840 that even the Hawks don't expect more than four rape 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.000 rises in the coming year. So that was one of 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.640 his ideas. And the other another one that I thought 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:22.160 was interesting was by US exposed stocks and markets that 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:25.880 have sold off aggressively for other reasons. So he mentioned 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:31.320 things like Fiat Chrysler Automotives and Loxotic Group they both 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:34.320 have over their sales in the US, and he sort 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:37.640 of saw that as a a cheap way into buying 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.320 US earnings. How do you feel about that one? Eric? 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:42.920 For that one, I honed it on the treasuries, and 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:47.200 he was he seemed to love all treasuries, the ones 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.000 on the short end, the middle, and the long end 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:51.200 of the curve. So I went with g o VT, 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:54.760 which is a treasury e t F that invests in 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.760 the whole enjelata, so you get all the way you 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:02.280 know from He's a treasury and enjelata. I wanted to check, 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:07.120 I know you like it. I think a treasury enchilada 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:09.440 would be very like organic and you feel like you 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.800 didn't even eat after eating it. That's that would that 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:17.000 it would have iceberg lettuce. It does not sound like 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:21.160 a good enchilado in your back to the Oklahoma crowd, 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:27.040 this this focus group that we're now like, we have 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.000 seen that over the last two years, most of the 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:35.400 last twelve months. It seems Trump stuff doesn't really affect 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:37.960 the markets that much. The media goes nuts, markets don't move, 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:41.440 but rates. You really can see a lot of upheaval 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:45.320 in bondy tfs. How do investors over there um sort 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:49.520 of take in these gigantic variables like politics, and rates. 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:51.800 Do rates matter more or how do they feel? Like? 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:54.280 You know, actually heard more about the hurricane than I 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.760 did about Trump. What Trump said about the Feds seemed 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:00.640 to spook a few people. He was mending on that. 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:04.760 But otherwise, you know, I think your average like sixty 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:06.880 five year old retire you with two million dollars in 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:09.880 a portfolio or something, isn't probably watching the Fed as 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:13.040 closely as as we are here at Bloomberg World headquarters. 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:21.200 But yeah, we're in our little guaranteed Number four. Number 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:24.800 four is Jim Paulson of the Luthho Group. He was 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:29.920 cautious as he was um the quarter before he talked 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.400 about balanced investors might want to reduce their equity allocations 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.760 in favor of bonds even though yields are rising. Um. 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.200 But he was the one person who looked at gold 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.320 because it has been down a while since spring, although 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.640 recently it bounced back in all of this of this turmoil, 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:52.000 and Eric picked a couple of good gold ETFs new 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.760 generation news school. Yeah, everything's g l D and i AU, 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:58.360 but there's a ton of new ones out um the two. 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.400 Because if you're reading this, and you're probably retail, you're 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.359 probably really more focused on the expense ratio. You don't 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:08.159 need g l d s highly liquid volume. You're not 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.120 like Cowper's, Okay, so I went with the cheaper ones. 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:14.080 So the newer there's the new school goldietfs are cheap. 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.280 So for example, Bar and g l d M are 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.800 both eighteen basis points. But as we were writing this, 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:24.800 Bar cut its fee to point one, seven, four nine, 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:29.320 to be hundreds of the basis point cheaper than g 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.399 l d M. That's how hardcore the fee war is 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.320 getting how they how they how is it cheaper than 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.040 the usual ones, your usual suspects, and how do they 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.600 get it down that much more? So? Eighteen or seventeen 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.119 and a half, if you will, is more than twice 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:47.840 as cheap as g l D which is forty. So 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:49.760 you know, but when you're if you're used to paying 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.200 for funds, like you know, getting down to that level 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:55.120 it's almost a rounding error. But if you were thinking 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:56.720 about if you if you had an option to pay 0:17:56.760 --> 0:18:00.159 forty dollars for something or eighteen or seventeen dollars that 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.040 same thing, I mean, everybody would pick the cheaper one. 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:05.720 So in a way, if you're going long term, those 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:08.960 those basis points will add up, so there's no reason 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:10.959 not to use these cheaper all. They're doing the same thing, 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.080 the story and golden the vault, and that's that there's 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:15.199 nothing different about them. So I'll sequel. You might as 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:17.119 well go for the cheaper one. G l D M, 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:19.040 in fact, was launched by g the g l D 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.159 people I called the minim g l D S minim 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:25.280 specifically to stave off this coming fee war. So now 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:27.840 they have like the big g l D which traders love, 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:29.560 and they can still charge a lot. Now they've got 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:31.360 the new one for Oh you want cheap, we got 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:35.120 that too. Now cheap gold. There you go, um Ben, 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:37.480 I want to ask you about people you talk to, 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.600 even beyond the Oklahoma crowd. What are the feelings of 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:42.679 gold out there? I know on Twitter you tend to 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:45.919 have bugs and haters and it's a very it's a 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:50.520 controversial asset class. Do you find that generally people use 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.440 gold or should they even use it? Is it? Is 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.160 it worth it? Well? I think you have the same 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.880 split among like regular investors you do among among professionals 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:01.760 like I don't see the point of it. If you're 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.199 asking my opinion, I don't get why you would want it, 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:07.560 especially these gold bugs who are like obsessed with with 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:09.919 these ETFs, like that you have to have the gold 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.920 in the vaults that they can like put like an 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:16.160 identification code on and like they know it's safe there 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:17.600 in case like the world comes to an end. I 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:19.000 don't know how you're going to get your gold from 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:20.879 London or wherever. The heck. This is if if the 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.200 world does come to an end. And further on your 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:27.560 gold storage issue, it's um there's actually gold ETFs that 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:29.840 store it in different places to appeal to those like 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.520 paranoid crowd types. So s g O L if you 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:37.160 are very paranoid, stores in Switzerland because and they'll say, 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:41.840 look Franklin Roosevelt confiscated gold and they don't trust any 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:45.439 Western country storing the gold. Then there's another one that 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:47.760 will send gold to your house when you redeem if 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.080 you want. It's a huge fee, But people like I 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:52.119 think that if you're gonna promise to do that, you 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:54.919 must be actually holding the gold. I think at some 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:57.360 point just by the gold bars yourself and like keep 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:00.320 them in your basement and go that direction. And Steve 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.400 Orman did a great story on that well, the question 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.199 is where do you put the gold when you get it? 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:11.800 And all these guys, um, they're all guys. They do 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.320 they do these crazy things where they like will paint 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:16.640 it black and use it as a doorstop, or they'll 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:21.119 bury it, ye black, the black thing on the ground 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:23.879 that really hurts if you stuff your toe on it. 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:27.840 And um. But the problem is then like they die 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:30.760 and then people can't find it, or people put their 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:33.600 gold in the ground and then they can't find remember 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:38.320 where they put it, and so in a safety deposit box. 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:40.480 They're worrried about somebody coming to their house and like 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:42.879 knows that you have gold and steals it. So they 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:45.520 paint it just in case that one thing happens. Yeah, 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.560 I've heard them using it in gardens. You know, they 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:53.000 sort of outlined the garden and like gold bricks pinched black. 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:56.080 I want to come to that garden, but you don't 0:20:56.080 --> 0:21:01.080 want to. You don't want to hang out with that guy. 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:05.480 All right? Number five, Okay, number five was interesting. Um 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:10.439 Jim Hamill of Artisan Global he um is investing in 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:14.119 sort of they as a shop, invest in solid franchises, 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:17.800 stocks that are solid franchises, and he's into the digital 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:22.080 payment space, which he sees as you know, pretty recession proof. 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:27.439 UM A matter what, right. So he's big on a 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:31.760 number of stocks. They're domestically and abroad. And I looked 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:34.760 at his the holdings of some of the artisan funds 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:40.480 and they had stocks including like Visa, pug Ciguro, Digital World, 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:44.720 pig Q two holdings UM. And that's just like a 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:49.719 basic play on how we transact today. And Eric found up. 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:52.240 I think you picked I pay right. How did you 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:56.080 get exposure to that? UM? I think I just started 0:21:56.080 --> 0:22:00.399 typing mobile payments and the autocomplete normally if you just 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:03.200