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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio Elizabeth Dutton. Oh hey,

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Speaker 1: what's up. It's me your guy Burnett. Yes, I got

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Speaker 1: a question for you while you're answering you it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: I do what? Uh you know? Like we like a

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Speaker 2: good piece accord? Right?

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Speaker 1: Oh? You kidding me?

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Speaker 2: You make a pact to work together.

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Speaker 1: I'm big on the packs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so think about who? What two forces do

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Speaker 2: you wish would just agree in a non political, non geopoliticals.

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Speaker 1: In a non geopolitical sense. Ah, so, like what is

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Speaker 1: the Biggie and Tupac that I'd like them to come together?

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Speaker 1: The East and the West. If I could have stopped that,

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Speaker 1: I'd probably say Adidas in uh no, that's yours. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Chicago White Sox and Chicago Cubs. I

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Speaker 1: wish the city could come together and love them both.

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Speaker 2: Let me tell you what your answers should have been.

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Speaker 1: Please?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So I look like I gave the best answer.

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Speaker 2: You're a big hot dog guy, right, Oh you.

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Speaker 1: Love a good hot dog and a big hot dog.

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Speaker 2: You love a big hot dog. Okay, and you Actually

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Speaker 2: the reason I bring this up is that we were

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Speaker 2: here at work at the at h Q while back,

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Speaker 2: and you were lamenting the fact that you went to

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Speaker 2: the store and you bought some hot dogs and it

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Speaker 2: did not match in number with.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Now I was doing like the old eighties

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Speaker 1: stand up Canadian bit about they got a right here

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Speaker 1: and they.

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Speaker 2: Got six over here, and the cord has been.

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Speaker 1: Met, get out of town.

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Speaker 2: Hines has got together and they took like in one

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Speaker 2: hand Wonder and the other hand the Oscar Meyer and

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Speaker 2: they joined them. So now they're doing ten buns, ten wieners.

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Speaker 1: Ten dogs, ten buns.

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Speaker 2: We got to learn it to this in an email

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Speaker 2: by krly Stutz that was forwarded over.

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Speaker 1: To me, this is amazing response is so much better

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Speaker 1: than your typical mashups.

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Speaker 2: And so they said that this is what their website

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Speaker 2: Heinz hotdog packed dot com says, this is just the start.

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Speaker 2: Let's make hot dog packs even all over the world.

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Speaker 2: Look at them for working for world peace. And you

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Speaker 2: can click sign the petition and it's a change dot

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Speaker 2: org petition, which change dot org petitions are one of

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Speaker 2: my least favorite things in the world, are one of

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Speaker 2: the most pointless. It's just an email list, but anyway

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Speaker 2: you can it says, help us change the hot dog

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Speaker 2: industry for the better and continue to get wieners and

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Speaker 2: buns sold in even packs all over the world. We've

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Speaker 2: succeeded in selecting parts of Canada, but we're not stopping

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Speaker 2: until the hot dogs mismatch is solved globally. Hot dog

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Speaker 2: histories in your hands. So I do hate.

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Speaker 1: To can't believe this has finally happened to Elizabeth the

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Speaker 1: Day has done.

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Speaker 2: Canadian hot dog packed. But it's that's it, so we

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Speaker 2: gotta work.

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Speaker 1: And it's also wonder bred favorite.

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Speaker 2: Almost thirty six thousand signatures and their goal is.

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Speaker 1: They're about to have thirty six thousand and one. Can

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Speaker 1: I get in on this as a non Canadian? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I also have a Canadian identity.

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Speaker 2: I can just use that if they want to creep

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Speaker 2: across the border. It's get an up there. Yeah, that's ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: It's totally ridiculous. You know this is ridiculous. Tell me

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Speaker 1: sit back down. Do you know it's just about did

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Speaker 1: you know that? Sometimes cops it's like I'm done today. No, No,

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Speaker 1: you are not done, young lady. So I didn't have

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Speaker 1: a fun fact for you. Yeah, cops, they bust people, right, ridiculous, Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 1: But also when cops bust people, some of those people

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Speaker 1: they bust are cops. It's just a mathematical fact.

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Speaker 2: I guess, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so sometimes Elizabeth gets ridiculous when cops bust cops.

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Speaker 2: I love that.

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Speaker 1: This is Ridiculous Crime, a podcast about absurd and outrageous capers,

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Speaker 1: heiss and cons. It's always ninety nine percent murder free

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Speaker 1: and one hundred percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Hold on, I'll be right there. Okay, I'm back.

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Speaker 1: I told you to sit down. Sorry, don't the day

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Speaker 1: what didn't you guyad?

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Speaker 2: I got I.

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Speaker 1: Answer, Elizabeth, I got a question for you. This may

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Speaker 1: keep you situated for a second. What's your favorite movie

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Speaker 1: about an undercover cop?

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Speaker 2: Remains of the Day wrong?

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Speaker 1: Your favorite movie about an undercover cop is also your

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Speaker 1: favorite movie about bank robbers, which keeps this simple for

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Speaker 1: you to remember, Elizabeth your what's your favorite movie about

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Speaker 1: a bank robber? It's your favorite about under copy Pray.

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Speaker 2: Which was made in nineteen ninety one, which, as you know.

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Speaker 1: Came out nineteen ninety one. Yes, now, you old Johnny Utah, I.

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Speaker 2: Am man FBI agent.

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Speaker 1: It is an undercover one it's like being a double

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Speaker 1: duty super undercover Cup.

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Speaker 2: I wish he would have said, I am and undercover agent.

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Speaker 1: Now I know there could be mini right answers for

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Speaker 1: what's your favorite undercover cop movie? But now that's it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but what about streaming shows TV? What's your favorite undercover

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Speaker 1: cup show?

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Speaker 2: Undercover cop show?

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Speaker 1: I can't help you. I don't have an answer this

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Speaker 1: time before you.

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Speaker 2: You undercover, boss, undercover. I don't know who goes undercover.

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Speaker 1: Lately, I've been watching Narcos. Okay, yeah, you want to

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Speaker 1: just think about Yeah, they're like da agents.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's right. We've had this discussion where I've

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Speaker 2: seen the show and then keep forgetting every element of

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Speaker 2: the show. I've totally seen that, and then you're like,

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Speaker 2: what were you talking about? Who's the guy the Mandalorian?

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Speaker 1: You were like, he was in that. I've got it.

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Speaker 1: I've got your favorite, Elizabeth. It's oh, oh that's that

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Speaker 1: is definitely he's a Rockford guy. I'll share it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I like all No, I don't like all undercover operations,

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Speaker 2: but anyway, go ahead, proceed anyway.

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Speaker 1: Narcos, I've been, you know, watching it because both the

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Speaker 1: Colombian one and the Mexican one. I recommend them both

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Speaker 1: because you know, I love that stuff, the crime, and

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Speaker 1: I've been working on my Spanish, so i want to

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Speaker 1: develop the accent of like a Colombian narco trafficante. Yeah. Anyway, Nako,

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Speaker 1: they got me thinking about undercover cops, right, So we

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Speaker 1: don't cover them often, right, Well we could normally, like

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Speaker 1: we typically focus on the other side of the law.

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Speaker 2: Well, we like costuming for criminals, but let's talk about

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Speaker 2: costuming for cops.

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Speaker 1: Yes, undercover cops, they really straddle the line, like their fences.

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Speaker 1: They walk both like the side of the law and

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Speaker 1: the criminal, and they're into dress up. I figure you'd

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 2: There was a there's a story in the paper around

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Speaker 2: here the other day about this undercover operation and these

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Speaker 2: guys infiltrated a karaoke club where there was like drug

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Speaker 2: and process.

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Speaker 1: Funny, I know.

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Speaker 2: But then I was like they were saying that the

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Speaker 2: waitress at this karaoke club came and laid down all

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Speaker 2: these lines of ketamine in front of the guys.

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Speaker 1: Really and then but I'm.

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Speaker 2: Like they had the prostitutes in the room with them,

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Speaker 2: Like did they do the kedemene?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, I'm glad you asked, Elizabeth, because before we

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Speaker 1: get in today's story, let's establish some ground rules. Yes,

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Speaker 1: all this like, what can undercover cops do?

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Speaker 2: I have questions and it looks like you've got to answer.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, maybe look at this. I'm opening up

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Speaker 1: my jacket. I got all these answers here, I got

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Speaker 1: this side, I got that site. These are new, these

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Speaker 1: are old. Anyway, we need to get some stuff straight

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Speaker 1: before we hit the ground round. Okay, what is an

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Speaker 1: undercover cop? What are the rules? Right? So you're the

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Speaker 1: daughter of a lawyer. You probably know this better than

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Speaker 1: I do. There's a little thing called do process, sure,

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Speaker 1: and that means you have to let the justice process

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Speaker 1: do its work right, So let judges and juries adjudicate,

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Speaker 1: let prosecutors prosecute, defenders defend cops? What do they do?

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Speaker 1: Collect evidence and arrest purpse? Yeah, you watch Law and Order.

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Speaker 1: You know how this goes. Now when it comes to

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Speaker 1: undercover cops, things the line gets blurry because what's an

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Speaker 1: example of due process gone wrong for an undercover cop? Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: I found a story this pair of undercover New York cups.

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Speaker 1: They were once targeting a pair of coke dealers with

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Speaker 1: this guy's Bobby Shine and Stanley Robinson cops gunning for

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Speaker 1: a bus. They're all geeked up. They want to get

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Speaker 1: these cats and Bobby Shane is Stanley Robinson. So they

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Speaker 1: ask them like, hey man, we want to buy some

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Speaker 1: coke from you, and the coke dealers like a son,

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Speaker 1: We're good. No, I don't trust you man. You got

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Speaker 1: that like putty face, all right, So the undercover cops

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Speaker 1: wouldn't take no for an answer, so they keep pestering

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Speaker 1: these two coke dealers every time they're at their local bar, Elizabeth,

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Speaker 1: here comes these two undercover cups trying to buy some blow.

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Speaker 1: They're like, hey man, my buddy and I really like

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Speaker 1: to from you. Totally sunglasses, wine shirts. They're in New York.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what they were in,

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Speaker 1: but they're like, hey, do you got that Florida snow?

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Speaker 1: Many man? Does? Come on man? Some white girl up

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Speaker 1: trying to you know, come on guys. Anyway, These actual

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Speaker 1: coke dealers are like, no, leave us at I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to talk my lady. Come on man, and then would

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Speaker 1: not lay him alone Elizabeth. So finally Stanley Robinson just

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Speaker 1: to get these cops off his back. He tell them,

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Speaker 1: I get you got some I get you some book

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Speaker 1: of sugar. You're good, right. He brings the undercover cops

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Speaker 1: some stuff, sells it to them. These undercover cops are related.

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Speaker 1: They've got their bust or so they thought Elizabeth until

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Speaker 1: they found out the coke was actually a bag of sugar.

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Speaker 1: It was actual sugar, literal sugar. It was like how

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Speaker 1: my man Willy d from the Ghetto Boys once rhyme

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Speaker 1: thut he had cane, but it was gold medal flowing

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Speaker 1: right now. So what did these undercover cops do when

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Speaker 1: they find out they got played? They get pissed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so both literally and figuratively, Like I mean, they go

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Speaker 1: out drinking and they get mad. So they get pissed

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Speaker 1: and pissed and they decided to do something about it.

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Speaker 1: So these drunk undercover cops go over to Stanley Robinson's

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Speaker 1: home and they kick in the door wave in the

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Speaker 1: four four right. They come rushing in and they find

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Speaker 1: Bobby Shine and Stanley Robinson there, just like you know

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Speaker 1: Landlow undercover cops. They have us in firearms out. They

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Speaker 1: demand two coke dealers give them either money, drugs, Okay,

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Speaker 1: they searched them, Elizabeth, the drunk undercover cops. They find

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Speaker 1: two bags of coke. So they bust Stanley Robinson and

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Speaker 1: Bobby Shine.

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Speaker 2: Now there's no probable cost.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing. They're just made God darn it, you know.

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Speaker 1: So did the undercover cops step outside the law? What's

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Speaker 1: your call, Elizabeth? Well, the court said, nope, all good boom, guilty, convicted, sentenced,

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Speaker 1: But nope, not at all. But Bobby Shine appealed his conviction,

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Speaker 1: and then the appeals court reversed this conviction. And when

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Speaker 1: they reversed the conviction, the court actually took care to

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Speaker 1: note and that this case was and I quote, one

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Speaker 1: of those rare cases where police conduct constituted a denial

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Speaker 1: of due process. So basically, good luck when it's your

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Speaker 1: word against an undercover cop, because most of the times

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Speaker 1: the courts are like, I don't know, it looks good

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Speaker 1: to me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So if you dig into these guidelines and legal limits

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Speaker 1: for undercover cops, and I did because for you, thank you,

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Speaker 1: you will find that quote the conditions under which undercover

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Speaker 1: police officers may participate in crime have seldom been the

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Speaker 1: subject of regulatory oversight.

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Speaker 2: Oh so they.

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Speaker 1: Oh, way more than that. So this I checked out

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Speaker 1: the Stanford Law Review article breaking the Law to enforce

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Speaker 1: it undercover police participation in crime, and they go all

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Speaker 1: through it, right. This same article goes on to point

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Speaker 1: out that quote, what exists is a patchwork of applicable

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Speaker 1: state and federal constitutional law restraints that loosely regulates undercover

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Speaker 1: operations and generally accepts and undercover officers violate the letter

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Speaker 1: of the law in order to catch criminals. So they are,

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Speaker 1: you know, they have a license to commit crime. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: way more than that. Now, there's some good news when

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Speaker 1: it comes to oversight of these undercover cops because there

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Speaker 1: are some judges ruling from the bench with their you know,

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Speaker 1: gavel hot operating under the idea that these guys have

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Speaker 1: a legal mandate, that there is quote in theory, a

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Speaker 1: limit to what the police can do. But few, if

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Speaker 1: any case is ever found to cross that line. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: so there's your latement. We don't we think it could happen. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it just never happens in this court.

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Speaker 2: So it never happens here.

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Speaker 1: What are the rules? Well, as we covered, most local

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Speaker 1: police don't really have explicit strict guidelines as much as

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Speaker 1: the list of try not tos. So I did find

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Speaker 1: the LA Sheriff's Department had a set of clear, explicit

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Speaker 1: guidelines for their undercover operatives. So I went and I

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Speaker 1: checked it all out, and I found an interesting thing

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Speaker 1: you probably would dig when it comes to creating your

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Speaker 1: fake identity. What are the rules? Well? LASD requires that

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Speaker 1: quote when any fictitious identity is utilized by an undercover deputy,

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Speaker 1: a copy of any fictitious identity documents shall be photocopied

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Speaker 1: and given to their immediate supervisor, who shall ensure it

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Speaker 1: is maintained in the undercover deputy's personnel jacket. This may

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Speaker 1: include one driver's license, two automobile registration, three vehicle license plate.

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Speaker 1: Fictitious identity shall also be reported to the LA Clearinghouse,

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Speaker 1: which shall maintain computerized records on a no release basis.

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Speaker 1: Should an inquiry be made on the fictitious identity, an

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Speaker 1: immediate notification we made to designated bureau member. So this

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Speaker 1: is all like it's what you think, right, Okay, So

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Speaker 1: those strict guidelines are pretty good, but when it comes

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Speaker 1: to what an officer is supposed to do, there is

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Speaker 1: not so much of that. Outside of protecting them. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of rules about protecting the cops. But like

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Speaker 1: how an officer is not to be there when arrest

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Speaker 1: goes down, they got rules about that, right, So an

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Speaker 1: undercover agent isn't supposed to be like there because they

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Speaker 1: don't want to be mistaken as a suspect and then

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Speaker 1: treated as such. And then the FBI being the cream

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Speaker 1: of the US based law enforcement, the bureau, they have

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Speaker 1: explicit sets of guidelines for their undercover agents. For instance,

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Speaker 1: the DOJ has laid out these are this guidelines, and

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Speaker 1: it refers agents to the Attorney General's guidelines on Federal

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Speaker 1: Bureau of Investigation undercover operations, all official right now. In

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Speaker 1: this Elizabeth, agents are instructed that quote, ordinary undercover operations

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Speaker 1: require prior approval by a special agent in charge of

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Speaker 1: each FBI office. They're supposed to get written determination that

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Speaker 1: the proposed investigation will be effective and that will be

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Speaker 1: conducted in a minimally intrusive way. That's all their language.

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Speaker 1: So it goes on to place time limits on deep

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Speaker 1: cover work. Quote Ordinarily and authorized undercover operation may last

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Speaker 1: up to six months, subject to a six month renewal,

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Speaker 1: and involve expenditures of no more than one hundred thousand dollars. Wow,

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Speaker 1: I got admit, that's less play money than I thought

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Speaker 1: they were them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Now, as for as far as the doing crime's part, quote,

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Speaker 1: in an ordinary undercover operation, the guidelines explicitly forbid undercover

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Speaker 1: officials from participating in violent acts except as a matter

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Speaker 1: of self defense. So that's one crime that they are like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're going to lay that one out. Now. The agency

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Speaker 1: must get approval constantly, right, So they're oversight officers. They

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Speaker 1: would beholden to the DOJ, so they have to answer

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Speaker 1: to the lawyers, and so they want this all to

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Speaker 1: be prosecutable. So, for instance, Elizabeth, quote, any official providing

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Speaker 1: authorization for a legal activity must consider that a legal

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Speaker 1: activity is justified only if it is needed to obtain

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Speaker 1: evidence that is not otherwise reasonably available, to establish or

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Speaker 1: maintain a secret identity, or to prevent death or seriously

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Speaker 1: bodily injury. Okay, So this is actually some parameters, or

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Speaker 1: so one would seem right. If an undercover agent wants

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Speaker 1: to commit a felony, he's supposed to be or she

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Speaker 1: is supposed to get approval.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So quote, may I commit a felony?

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Speaker 1: Basically, mother may I quote, felonies not specified in the

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Speaker 1: guidelines are considered sensitive circumstances that must be approved by

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Speaker 1: the Undercover Review Committee as well as the FBI Director,

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Speaker 1: assistant Director, deputy director, or executive assistant Director, depending on circumstances. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so there it seems like, right, being an undercover agent

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Speaker 1: is kind of like how Hollywood plays it out for

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Speaker 1: the FBI would have all these restrictions. But there was

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Speaker 1: one thing I found that kind of invalidates everything I

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Speaker 1: just told you, because, as the Stanford Law Review points out, quote,

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Speaker 1: there is, however, one important limitation to the guidelines. They

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Speaker 1: are non binding.

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Speaker 2: Oh so it's just a suggestion.

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Speaker 1: They're guidelines, They're literally guidelines. The FBI designed them so

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Speaker 1: that they would have quote they're meant for internal DOJ

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Speaker 1: guidance only, and that they quote state they are not

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Speaker 1: intended to do, not and may not be relied on

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Speaker 1: to create any rights substantive or procedural enforceable by law

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Speaker 1: by any party in any matter civil or criminal, or

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Speaker 1: do they place any limitations on otherwise lawful investigative or

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Speaker 1: litigative prerogatives of the Department of Justice. Otherwise f OFF basically.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, can you come for us these practices, I know

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Speaker 2: we fall short quest So they.

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Speaker 1: Exist in this gray area of the law. So to

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Speaker 1: answer any remaining questions that you have, do they have

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Speaker 1: to tell you if they're a cop, No, no they

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Speaker 1: do not. Can they smoke pot or do drugs if

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Speaker 1: they're undercover, Yes, yes they can. According to an Ohio

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Speaker 1: appellate court, it's ruling stated, quote, an undercover agent engaged

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Speaker 1: in the business of trying to stamp out the illicit

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Speaker 1: drug traffic may smoke marijuana in order to give the

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Speaker 1: appearance of validity to his conduct. So yes, they can

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Speaker 1: do that with cocaine, methamphetamine. What you got.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 1: But not only that, courts have also determined that undercover

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Speaker 1: officers are free and clear to quote conduct buy and

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Speaker 1: bust in order to flip and roll drug dealers and

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Speaker 1: turn them into informants. So this thing called the reverse sting.

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Speaker 1: That's undercover agents or cops quote pretend to be drug

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Speaker 1: users or illegal gun buyers looking for a willing seller.

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Speaker 1: So then they supply the drugs or the guns and

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Speaker 1: they try to sell them anybody who buys them. They

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Speaker 1: get busted. So they're out there like literally setting up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the reverse things Supreme Court ruled in something called United

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Speaker 1: States versus Russell. If you're into that kind of stuff,

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Speaker 1: that they reverse things are quote totally legal, totally cool.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so like, how far can undercover agent take

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Speaker 1: this lawlessness? Elizabeth? Can they have sexual relations with the

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Speaker 1: suspect or informant while they're undercover? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Probably, I guess, great.

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Speaker 1: Question, Elizabeth. After this break, I'll tell you the answer

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Speaker 1: and a story that'll answer all the questions and so

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Speaker 1: many more.

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Speaker 4: Okay, Elizabeth barn Just so we don't fall into the

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Speaker 4: belief that all this undercover cop nonsense only occurs in

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Speaker 4: the US.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a story for you from where the UK.

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Speaker 1: Yeah are kissing cousins in the English language?

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Speaker 2: Yea.

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Speaker 1: So it starts with this woman having to tell her

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Speaker 1: mom that the man she met who was her fiance

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Speaker 1: was not a real person. And it's not like you

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Speaker 1: typically imagine because he was a real person, but the

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Speaker 1: identity he was living it with or under it with

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Speaker 1: and whatever on his fake identity as her fiance was

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Speaker 1: not real. That was the part that was not real,

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Speaker 1: or has the woman put it to her mother. What

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Speaker 1: I'm saying is that Carlo was not a locksmith. He

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Speaker 1: was an undercover cop working for a special branch. He

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Speaker 1: was sent by the state to spy on my friends.

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Speaker 1: Whoa Yes, that's from a story published in The Guardian

375
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Speaker 1: back in January twenty twenty two, and they were engaged, yeah,

376
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Speaker 1: with the title I Fell in Love with an undercover cop.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

378
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Speaker 1: Yeah, this one's a doo Elizabeth. Oh yeah, Like how

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Speaker 1: did you get to that point?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

381
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Speaker 1: So this couple they first met at a protest in London.

382
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Speaker 1: This is a protest against the Iraq war in September

383
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Speaker 1: two thousand and two. So she meets this handsome stranger.

384
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Speaker 1: He's hanging out with a friend of hers. He's this

385
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Speaker 1: fellow activist the friend. The friend then introduces her to

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Speaker 1: the handsome stranger and says, oh, is this comrade from Bologna,

387
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Speaker 1: you know, like in Italy. Right. So the young pair

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Speaker 1: they hit it off, they start dating, They do all

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Speaker 1: the typical you know, he and she and that you do.

390
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Speaker 1: In two thousand and two. Six weeks later, he moves

391
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Speaker 1: in with her.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, seems like things are.

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Speaker 1: Going well or fast whatever, fast as she tells it. Yeah,

394
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Speaker 1: as a woman, what do you think a little fast.

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Speaker 2: Six weeks. Oh yeah, six weeks to move in together,

396
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Speaker 2: to move in get out of here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you're in like an activist space, so people

398
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Speaker 1: are like having like, you know, housing, this maybe sometimes

399
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Speaker 1: a king's stable.

400
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:32,879
Speaker 2: Don't care love bombing red flag.

401
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,560
Speaker 1: As she tells it, Carlo was everything I wanted in

402
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:41,000
Speaker 1: a potner. He was affectionate, generous, an exceptional cook, loved dogs,

403
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Speaker 1: and firmly believed in monogamy. And then three months later

404
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,520
Speaker 1: after they first met Elizabeth, things get real serious. As

405
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,760
Speaker 1: the story goes, we'd spent Christmas apot and then he

406
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Speaker 1: dropped her off for a flight. She flies back to

407
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Speaker 1: Scotland and he said he was gonna go be Italy

408
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Speaker 1: with his family. No, no, she she was visiting to Scotland.

409
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Speaker 1: They were just meeting. I don't it doesn't matter. You

410
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Speaker 1: don't want to hear my Scottish I you don't want

411
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Speaker 1: to hear my English accent. I'm doing it anyway. So

412
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,320
Speaker 1: just after Christmas he returns right and the couple they

413
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Speaker 1: throw a seasonal party and they invite their friends circle over,

414
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Speaker 1: which is basically her activist friends. So he's like, and

415
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Speaker 1: by the way, this invite was his idea. He's like,

416
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Speaker 1: why did you invite all your activist friends over this Italian?

417
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Speaker 5: Yeah?

418
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 1: Exactly, Carlo, so the way she remembers it. Quote. As

419
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Speaker 1: they arrived, we welcomed them with Rossini's prosecco with strawberries.

420
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Speaker 1: Carlo had blended himself laughter bounced off the walls of

421
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Speaker 1: our small flat. Carlo was wearing the shirt my mom

422
00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:40,399
Speaker 1: had brought him for Christmas, floral, pinky beige cord. He

423
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,159
Speaker 1: moved around, saying hello to people he'd never met, pointing

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Speaker 1: in my direction. I chatted to friends who said he's

425
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Speaker 1: a keeper. Now before her friends, he gets down on

426
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Speaker 1: one knee and he proposes.

427
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Speaker 2: Oh wow, and he's undercover.

428
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's an undercover agent. You know that nobody

429
00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 1: else does. This is a little like, you know, Hitchcockian knowledge. Okay, anyway,

430
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Speaker 1: not everyone present heard the proposal. As the party was

431
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Speaker 1: in full flow, the pogues were blasting out from the

432
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Speaker 1: CD player. I've got a feeling this year is for

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Speaker 1: me and you. I love you, baby, Carlos sang, will

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Speaker 1: you marry me? Donna on one knee in the middle

435
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 1: of the dance floor, looking down his face, I knew

436
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Speaker 1: he loved me. His eyes would never lie. Yes, Yes,

437
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,640
Speaker 1: I will marry you. I whooped, and everyone turned around

438
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,680
Speaker 1: to see him lift me off my feet, black tights

439
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 1: showing as my swirly dress got caught up in his arms.

440
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,679
Speaker 1: He put me down, arms still wrapped around me, looking

441
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 1: into my eyes. She was quite literally swept off her

442
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,120
Speaker 1: feet by an undercovered You know.

443
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 2: What, Shane McGowan. God Rest would not approve.

444
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 1: Oh my god, he'd spit right in this guy's eyeing.

445
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 2: The soundtrack for this hot mess totally.

446
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 1: I elbow him in the throat. So you may be

447
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,199
Speaker 1: wondering were they intimate? Like, were they carnally aware of

448
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,680
Speaker 1: each other? Keep that thought, I suppose, so come on, yeah,

449
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 1: I mean get yeah, I mean they're modern. Yes, so

450
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 1: you have to assume. But we don't know. So let's

451
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,920
Speaker 1: keep that in mind. Maybe, you know whatever. First, the

452
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 1: undercover cop Carlo who just proposed to her, did they

453
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 1: go through with it? No, they did not, Elizabeth, because

454
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 1: he ghosted her. He did not go through with the proposal.

455
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 1: They did not make it to the Altar.

456
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,239
Speaker 2: Well because he would have had to sign documents all

457
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,919
Speaker 2: sorts of stuff. Can I just say something, this is

458
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 2: up like for real.

459
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 1: Yes, oh, yes, for so many reasons.

460
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 2: Anyway, continue and then I'll expound on my reason.

461
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, so he moved in after knowing her for

462
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 1: six weeks? Did deserve Before they ever get to the altar,

463
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,439
Speaker 1: he rushes the exit. He then the way he leaves,

464
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: he moves out. While she's out of the house, she

465
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 1: comes home to the surprise of her fiance and all

466
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,919
Speaker 1: his stuff magically gone. Oh my god, he had chosen

467
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 1: to move out while I was at work, turning up

468
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 1: in his estate car to clear out his belongings. He

469
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 1: took everything with him, every book, cup, sausa, right down

470
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: to the last teaspoon. It felt like a forensic operation.

471
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 1: So there she has, wondering what went wrong with Carlo

472
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 1: and why her fiance bounced on her right, she never

473
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 1: gets answers years past Elizabeth years. What the one day

474
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 1: she thinks she sees them on like the tube, right,

475
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: She's like, dude, Like, She's like, is that him? Like

476
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: the underground He's sitting next to her, but he's like,

477
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 1: looks like he's German, so it couldn't be him, And

478
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: so she's like, no, he's a tie and that's not him. Anyway,

479
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 1: probably was any I don't she had to hit onto.

480
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 1: I think you think it was if I remember correctly,

481
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 1: a scarf like he was like supporting a German football team,

482
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: and so she and he must have been maybe blasting

483
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:36,679
Speaker 1: German techno from the thirties. Yes, So one day he

484
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: sees a book called Undercover by these two journalists for

485
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: The Guardian, Rob Evans and Paul lewis right, and they'd

486
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 1: helped to expose this whole scandal where undercover cops from

487
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 1: the Metropolitan Police created fictitious relationships with activists who were

488
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: women so they could penetrate the circles of activists in

489
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 1: the hopes of manipulating the women, investigating their friends and

490
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 1: the comrades, and being able to create huge dossiers because

491
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: the women to be unsuspecting of these gorgeous guys. Carlo

492
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 1: was an undercover cop.

493
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

494
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: So twenty fifteen, this woman, she receives a message on Facebook.

495
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: This is like a decade later after the whole Carlo

496
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: first proposed scenario. The message leads this woman to meeting

497
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 1: one of the journalists, Rob Evans. When they meet, he

498
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 1: informs with these undercover agents were quote paid extremely well

499
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: to lie for a living. It occurred to me that

500
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: all my presence would have been on expenses. Yes, do

501
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 1: you get the ID?

502
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 5: All right?

503
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 1: So it means she realizes every moment was by yes night.

504
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 1: Flash forward to twenty eighteen. There's this renewed call for

505
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 1: justice for these women who were love bombed by these

506
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: undercover cops. She gets a solicitor aka lawyer for our

507
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,479
Speaker 1: American listeners. There are the bunch of other women pursuing

508
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: justice that they start working together in Metropolitan Police. They

509
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: launch an internal investigation. Same year, this woman she sits

510
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 1: for an interview with two female officers from the met Police.

511
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 1: She recounts the whole relationship down to the dirty details

512
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: such as like, quote, what he looked like naked, his body, hair,

513
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: his funny shaped toes, his the rest of his body. Elizabeth, Yeah,

514
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 1: right now. It turns out they weren't using condoms because

515
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: wait for it, they were monogamous. Okay, stop Elizabeth, Elizabeth,

516
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 1: they were not monogamous. Carlo the undercover cop was not

517
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 1: monogamous because turns out he was married no, and he

518
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 1: was pressuring both his real wife and his fake fiance

519
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: to get pregnant and have his kids.

520
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 2: No, no, yes, yes.

521
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 1: This is all happening as justice.

522
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 2: I am stunned.

523
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 1: Yes, right, absolutely so the Met cops informer of this,

524
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 1: that Carlo was married and these two women they're in

525
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: this little, tiny square room. We sympathize with you and

526
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 1: how crappy our colleague was to you and whatever as

527
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 1: a cop. So after the interview, the investigation by the

528
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: Met Police goes on the Crown Prosecution Service. I'd be like,

529
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: you know, the prosecutors. They decide not to prosecute the case,

530
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: her case, but not just her case, none of the cases. Why, Elizabeth. Why?

531
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 1: Because CPS determined that the undercover cop was operating quote

532
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: on genuine feelings, and not just him, not just Carlo,

533
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 1: but all of the undercover cops are found to be

534
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: acting on genuine feelings. That's a legal term. That's what

535
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: they use in the court, genuine feelings. They're out there

536
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: measuring men's feelings, the thing everyone's always talking about, are

537
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: so clear and easy to measure men's feelings. So, in

538
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 1: other words, the Crown rule that cops loved these women

539
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: and that they were professionally lying to creating false relationships

540
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: in order to investigate their friends. But they the love

541
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: part was real, genuine feelings.

542
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 2: You know, this isn't even like there are no lives

543
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 2: in the balance of their supposed crimes. They're war protesters.

544
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: Total, exactly. They're just trying to the cops are just

545
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: trying to penetrate their circle.

546
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

547
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: Yes, So this brings us to the question of moral

548
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 1: ambiguity for undercover cops.

549
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,360
Speaker 2: Oh, those Carlo, if that is his real name at all,

550
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 2: those guys are gonna have to face some serious reckoning

551
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 2: at some point. Yeah, you can't. That is psychopath behavior, right,

552
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 2: you can't do that.

553
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: They were like James bonding around with like a license

554
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 1: to kill, but it was a license to thrill in

555
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: the bedroom where every else and to just break hearts

556
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: and killed minds.

557
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: Like what is broken within them that they could just

558
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 2: pick up and leave or to do it in the

559
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 2: first place, but also just like the no explanation, and

560
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 2: to do it because it's leaving wreckage in their way, and.

561
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,959
Speaker 1: They're doing this for justice. Keep this in mind always,

562
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: And they're telling themselves what they're doing is trying to

563
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: advance protection.

564
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 2: And they're out with all these like Guardian readers while

565
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 2: they're like eating lentils and talking about making signs at

566
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 2: protests where they like, you know, maybe this isn't such

567
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 2: a big.

568
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,959
Speaker 1: Maybe they aren't a big threat. Yeah, yeah, you might

569
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 1: think that, right, is like this is what we talk

570
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: for the Black Panthers in the sixties. But this is like,

571
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 1: you know, did you point out tofu eating Brits in

572
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: the two thousands who were not really known for their violence.

573
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 5: No.

574
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: Anyway, the way that the law looks at it, According

575
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: to the Stanford Law Review and I quote the stress

576
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 1: of deception, undercover work exacts many personal costs from individual investigators.

577
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: Occupational hazards are legion. Not only must the undercover officer

578
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: present and maintain a credible false identity and a criminal mealieu,

579
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: often he must also gain the confidence of his criminal associates.

580
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: Accidental disclosure can result in violence against the agent, or

581
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 1: at the very least the abrupt end of the investigation.

582
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: So that's the reason why they get such carte blanche,

583
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: because they have to convince everybody. So we couldn't just

584
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: possibly limit what they do, because Elizabeth, they could the

585
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: investigation be corrupted, they could get killed. One of these

586
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: hippies might kill them with tofu so everywhere that I

587
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: looked and all that I researched, I couldn't find any

588
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: explicit guidelines about undercover cops sleeping with suspects and informants.

589
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: They are left to figure that out on their own.

590
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 2: How convenience getting engaged?

591
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that that can be a problem because, as

592
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: the Stanford Law Review noted, quote, some departments prefer to

593
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: use young recruits or relatively inexperienced officers as undercover agents

594
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: in part because they pose a smaller risk of recognition

595
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: by targets. Now what does that mean, Elizabeth, Well.

596
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: You know that if they're new to the force, people

597
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 2: aren't going to be like, wait, you arrested me exactly.

598
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: But they also don't know much about cops. They are

599
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: being a cop, they haven't been very well trained, they

600
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: don't have a lot of experience. So what happens? Well, ference,

601
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: since I have one from the Stanford Law Review, they

602
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: have this little for instance that I thought was particularly interesting.

603
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: There was a young detective working undercover in Brooklyn. He's

604
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: investigating members of the Muslim community on the hunter for

605
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: quote Islamic extremists, and this fresh out of the academy

606
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: kid he gets dropped into a two year long deep

607
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: cover assignment with no undercover training. Prior to doing this.

608
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: His only contact with the police is in email exchange

609
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: with one supervisor. Oh my god, two years to drop

610
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: him in. Tell us wherever you find, go out there ahead, live,

611
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: do whatever you gotta do. We just want to hear

612
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: the facts. And so he's just told like carte blanche,

613
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: like licensed to line whatever you need, create whatever, get

614
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: people involved in stuff, like you can generate crime, but

615
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: need be may they have the reverse sting so you

616
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: can go out there and buy the guns and try

617
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: to sell it to them. He can do whatever he wants.

618
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 2: Well. And the thing is, it's like this notion of

619
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 2: no training, so that they say it's this horrible thing.

620
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 2: It causes all this pressure and difficulty on their lives,

621
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 2: and it puts them under tremendous stream. Wouldn't you think

622
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 2: that they would need comprehensive training and.

623
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: Out order supervision training, a bunch of things. If you

624
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: wanted to go well, I mean, like you actually honestly

625
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: wanted to go.

626
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not going to trust anybody ever.

627
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: Again, that's good under cover, but I don't have to

628
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: tell you anyway. I can just lie.

629
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 2: They made it out in the TV shows, movies.

630
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: They none of that is true. They can do pretty much.

631
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: It is the one of the craziest loopholes. It's like

632
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: bounty hunters. You learn about what they can do, You're like,

633
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,959
Speaker 1: why are they allowed to just ignore all the laws? Well,

634
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: because it really matters to us to get these purps

635
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: back your private laws anyway, your your rights. So researchers

636
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: Elizabeth into undercover cops they have found when it comes

637
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: to this deep cover work, these agents quote must have

638
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: the ability to improvise because there are no rules to

639
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: deep cover work and the person must be basically deceitful.

640
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: So we're taking these young, deceitful people who are good

641
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: at improvising and sending them out these little like.

642
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 2: Sociopaths, the most annoying people.

643
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: If only in Hollywood terms. We always think like Denzel

644
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: Washington and training day, Right, he's just going out there

645
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: and he's like, you know, King calling and got you know.

646
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: So that's but it's now because remember what I was

647
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: telling about reverse stings. That's what the undercover cops are.

648
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: I think, to sell guns and drugs. Here's a story

649
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: where they bust somebody, right, In twenty thirteen, there's this

650
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: story that came out that showed the community outside of

651
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: Fort Lauderdale, Florida, was using reverse stings to make big

652
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: money for the municipality. Oh yeah, you see, when you

653
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: bust someone for a drug buy, the cops get to

654
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: keep the money or the cars, the motorcycles, the nice clothes,

655
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: whatever the purps use in commission of a car. Yeah,

656
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: so to some undercover cops, that turns into a license

657
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: to basically shop at the drug dealer emporium. See, they

658
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: see a truck they want, they just bust that driver

659
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: and they had they have to plant some drugs to

660
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: do it. Oh look, you look, you look what I found.

661
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: And then boom, they got a new truck. You're busted

662
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: and the truck is there. So town is called Sunrise,

663
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: Florida Elizabeth and according to ABC News, down in Sunrise, Florida, quote,

664
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: undercover police detectives play the role of cocaine dealers and

665
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: try to lure in potential buyers who drive or fly

666
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: in from all over the country with wads of cash.

667
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: If the stings are successful, informants can receive large payouts

668
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: and police can seize cash, cars and other non monetary assets.

669
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: The bus have pumped millions of dollars into local coffers.

670
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

671
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: So yeah. The Sun Sentinel was the one to report

672
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: on the story, and it was a six month long investigation.

673
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: Megan Omettz, she's one of the reporters who breaks this story.

674
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: She said, and I quote, the police are not actually

675
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: finding these drug dealers on their own, but they rely

676
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: on paid and unpaid informants to tell them about people

677
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: that might be looking for cocaine. It became obvious to

678
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: us that the reason that they are doing this is

679
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: because of the money. So now you have undercover cops

680
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: incentivizing criminals to snitch on each other, and the cops

681
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: get to keep their proceeds.

682
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 2: Those forfeiture laws are such a mess.

683
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: Well, it didn't aways play out to smoothly as this

684
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: because sometimes the cops we have to improvise, and so

685
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: would the purpse, and so you know, the I guess

686
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: the informants rather. For instance, let's take the story of

687
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: Gus Borjas Elizabeth Guss. He was a nurse, he's a

688
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: father for and he had this shap associate who's apparently

689
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: an informant for the Sunrise pde and this informant needed

690
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: a new bust for whatever reason. So they contact Gus.

691
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: They tell them, hey, man, I'm trying to get rid

692
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: of some old debts. Can I borrow twenty three grand?

693
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: Can you bring it to me? And so Gus, apparently

694
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: I don't know how he knows this guy, he agrees

695
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: to bring him twenty three grand in cash to a

696
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: parking lot. Gus is a g He shows up and

697
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: he's got all the money the dude needs. The guy

698
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: shows up in the parking lot and Gus is alone

699
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: with his twenty three grand in a satchel. So, according

700
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: to the video recorded by the undercover cops, when Gus

701
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: gets there, there are two paid informants who are waiting

702
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: for him, not with the cops, just in another car. Right, so,

703
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: the undercover cops are surveiling the scene. Right So, now

704
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: to make this bus, the cops need Gus to buy

705
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: the drugs that the associate has brought. What does that mean, Well,

706
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: it means the informants have to hand him the drugs

707
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: or if that doesn't work, they can just push the

708
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: drugs on him. Elizabeth. You see, when they try to

709
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: give him the drugs, Guss he won't go for it.

710
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: He's like, no, I don't want any cocaine to be

711
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: talking about. I brought the twenty three grand, So that

712
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: ruins the bus. But the informants you're like, man, I

713
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: got him out here, so they just put the There

714
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: is a woman with the original informant. She just takes

715
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: a kilo of cocaine and shoves it into the satchel

716
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 1: with all the money, and so boom. They consider that

717
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,720
Speaker 1: evidence of a drug buy. Cops sloop in. They bust

718
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: the guy for cocaine distribution. He never gives him the money.

719
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,760
Speaker 1: The cocaine is shoved into his bag and they're like, okay,

720
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 1: that's the deal. So now he's no dummy, this guy borjas.

721
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: They bust the wrong good citizen this time. So Gus

722
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: recalled during his bust. As soon as I got arrested.

723
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: As soon as they just everything coicked in my head.

724
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,320
Speaker 1: Why this, Why that they set me up? So he

725
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: goes in and he gets himself a good lawyer. He

726
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 1: defends himself in court. This brings attention to the practice

727
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: and then we get all the investigations. But he turns out,

728
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: you know, to be the you know straw that breaks

729
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: his Campbell's back for Sunrise, Florida. Over two year stretch,

730
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: the Sun Sentinel noticed that this police department quote netted

731
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,240
Speaker 1: five point eight million and seized money. Just the money.

732
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: Where did that money go? Great question, Elizabeth. The funds

733
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: were went to pay officers for overtime, so so much

734
00:34:58,200 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: over time that these cops, some of the cops is

735
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: on Rice, Florida. They doubled their annual salary with overtime. Amazing.

736
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 1: You know what they were getting overtime from from watching

737
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: these informants go out there and get them that money.

738
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

739
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 2: That forehas though, like he does, lack critical thinking skills.

740
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: Someone stuff.

741
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: Someone asked me for a loan, yes, and said, wells Fargo,

742
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 2: you're gonna need to find another piece.

743
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: May have been going there to buy cocaine, Elizabeth. I'm

744
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:26,879
Speaker 1: just saying is that the deal never went down.

745
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 2: Who loans someone money in cash in a satchel?

746
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: Like I said, I don't believe all the story. I

747
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 1: just know that you can't plant plant the drugs on

748
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: a person just because you're trying to get to the

749
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: end of the deal. Like, let's just skip to the end.

750
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: So the in Florida State law allows officers to seize

751
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,839
Speaker 1: non monetary assets. Remember I mentioned that what does that mean,

752
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: sees non monetary assets, Well, that means in Sunrise, Florida.

753
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: According to Megan Matts, these officers quote, they can take

754
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: their cars, jewelry. One fellow told us a cop said, Hey,

755
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: I like the sunglasses you're wearing. Snatched them off. So

756
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 1: there's a real profit motive for these Oh yeah, yeah,

757
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,439
Speaker 1: so that nurse gus borhas. Yeah, he gets his twenty

758
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: three grand back. I don't know what happened, but in court,

759
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: the prosecutor offers him a plea deal on a charge

760
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: of solicitation to purchase cocaine. They do not drop that

761
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: because he apparently agreed that the paying informant.

762
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 5: No.

763
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the prosecutor agreed that their paid informant planted

764
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: the cocaine on him. But he still would not have

765
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: gone and like given dropped the charges.

766
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

767
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: He said that they may have quote gone too far. Yeah,

768
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: may have gone too far. The lawyer for Gus the

769
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: nurse argued that it was all a corrupt deal. The

770
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: undercover cops are incentivized to lie, to cheat, to steal it,

771
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: so and so are the informants right to who are

772
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: typically criminals. Like, so we're exactly working together. So, as

773
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: a lawyer put it for Gus, he puts it, quote,

774
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: these people only get paid if the deal goes down.

775
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: Gus is the one who pulled off his backpack and

776
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: opened it up. The informant did she takes his backpack off,

777
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,280
Speaker 1: She on zips it. She's searching in for the money.

778
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: Guss isn't the one who took the cocaine. She took

779
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: a kilo of cocaine, stuffed it in his backpack. Here's

780
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: the backpack. Go get arrested. So you see, like I

781
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: believe that there may have been something hinky in the deal.

782
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 1: I don't think he showed up with twenty grand grand

783
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: for his friend, like here you go, I'll loan do

784
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: that money. Yeah, but she planted the drugs. That's why

785
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 1: I say it ain't right. It's not fair. You know me,

786
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: I typically read for the criminals. Whatever, let's take a

787
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: break and after these pipe and hot delicious fresh ads, Elizabeth,

788
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:18,919
Speaker 1: I have a few more stories for you, and these

789
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: will answer the question of what happens when undercover cop

790
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: busts another cop?

791
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, Elizabeth Saron you're digging the cops stories.

792
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,439
Speaker 2: I love these stories, we love them in the way

793
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 2: that some of they're enraging me. But do go on.

794
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: Okay, I promised to answer the question what happens when

795
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: undercover cops bust other cops? Yes, and I will answer that,

796
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: I promise you. But first I'd like to tell you

797
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 1: a little palate cleanser. Okay, So imagine you were busted

798
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: by an undercover care bear. Yeah, I'm sorry, or rather

799
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: a cop dressed as a care bear.

800
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:14,760
Speaker 2: Oh God is this? And and you're in Peru okay.

801
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: Right, the sex South America, Peru, right like not like Peru, Indiana,

802
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: like Peru, the country. Uh huh, Well, Elizabeth, you don't

803
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: need to because I'd like you to close your eyes.

804
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: Oh no, I'd like you to picture it. Elizabeth. You

805
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: are currently in Peru. You're there in Lima, the capital city.

806
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: It's February, and since you're in the Southern Hemisphere, that

807
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: means it's summertime. The air is warm, humid, and fragranced

808
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: with the aroma of flowers. This soft breeze lifts your hair,

809
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: A smile decorates your lips. It's a charming day of

810
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: the weather just right, The daytime, sounds of the street

811
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: color the scene. You came to this country for personal reasons.

812
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: You've already attended the Candelaria festival and witnessed the traditional

813
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: religious celebration that takes place there in the Lake Titi

814
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: Kaka region. At the moment, now, you're waiting to meet

815
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: your old friend Sarah T so you two can travel

816
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 1: together across Peru. Maybe you'll hit up Machu Picchu. Who

817
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 1: knows who cares for? Right now, you're alone, enjoying the

818
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: vibe in the atmosphere of Lima. At the moment, you're

819
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: eating some street food you picked up from local vendors,

820
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: some spring rolls with fresh avocado and some tamalis cuscainos,

821
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: the steam dumplings. They smell amazing and are stuff with

822
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: ahi amarillo to wash it down. You have a Chica morara,

823
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,760
Speaker 1: a non alcoholic sweet corn drink, Elizabeth. It's all looking

824
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 1: and smelling so good. You're all set to enjoy your

825
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: meal as you also watch some free street entertainment. There's

826
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: this enormous care bear walking down the alley. What's striking

827
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: captivating your attention is this enormous care beer is carrying

828
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 1: a giant box of Valentine's Day chocolates. He looks to

829
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: be delivering a Valentine's Day surprise. You keep watching. Along

830
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 1: with the box of chocolates, the enormous care beer is

831
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 1: also carrying a heart shaped balloon and a sign that

832
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: reads in Spanish, you are my reason to smile. Now

833
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: you are overly carried. You got to see the woman

834
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: who this care bear or a man who this care

835
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: bear is aiming to surprise with this overt showing of

836
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: love and romance. And then you see the care bear pause.

837
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 1: He bends down, gets to one knee, lowers himself, and

838
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: he holds his gifts up looking to a second story window.

839
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: And this is what you see, Elizabeth.

840
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: Oh God.

841
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 1: Next you hear some commotion. You look up to see

842
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: a woman at the window. She spies this enormous care

843
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,479
Speaker 1: bear down at the street level. Her face breaks open

844
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: with a wide smile similar to yours. She doesn't delay.

845
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 1: She comes rushing down to the porch to meet the

846
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: giant care bear. Turns out this woman is a notorious

847
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,760
Speaker 1: drug queen pin And that's when you hear it running

848
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: footsteps slapping against the cobblestones of the alley way, you

849
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: turn to see a plain closed cop from the Anti

850
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: Drug Task Force running at full speed. When you turn back,

851
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: you see the care bear wrestling the woman to the alley.

852
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,720
Speaker 1: The care Bear's head is knocked off, revealing the undercover

853
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: cop inside and the drug queens Russell and Fright in

854
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: the alley Before the backup cops can reach them. The

855
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: undercover cop in the enormous care bear costume, he manages

856
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: to get on top of the drug queen Pint and

857
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: subdue her. It's a strange thing. The arresting officers discover

858
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: stashes of heroin and what appears to be I don't know, fetanol.

859
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: He Elizabeth just got a free show a lima lima. Okay,

860
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: so I know that you just watched it all go down,

861
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: But just to jog your memory, here's a picture of

862
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: the headless care bear with the undercover cop inside, seated

863
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 1: on the drug queen pin.

864
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 2: Let me see, Oh god, that is okay a couple things.

865
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 2: That is the cheapest care bear costume I've ever seen.

866
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: And there's another shot of the drug queen pins. You

867
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 1: can see her being led away by the enormous undercover

868
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: care bear and his head back on.

869
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 2: Oh, we put the head back on for the Oh so.

870
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,919
Speaker 1: The photo op, Elizabeth for the photo op.

871
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 2: I don't think that's a care bear. That's just a bear.

872
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: Okay, fine, it doesn't have like the heart in the center.

873
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: But I like a care bear. Okay, it's fine. It's

874
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 1: a teddy bear with very flirt. So what do you

875
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 1: want from me? The cop is from Lima's Squadron there

876
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 1: Day in English, the Green Squadron. They're the undercover agent

877
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: or unit rather in charge of fighting street crimes. Right,

878
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: So there's a squadron very day they go around and

879
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 1: they apparently love outrageous costumes because months earlier, during the

880
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: winter holidays, one of the Lima undercover cops from the

881
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 1: Squadron there Day, he went out on a drug raid

882
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: disguised as Santa Claus.

883
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

884
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 1: Fully participated and Santa Claus getting down. At one point,

885
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,879
Speaker 1: undercover Santa whipped out a sledgehammer and went to work

886
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 1: on the door of a drug den. So you've had

887
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,760
Speaker 1: you just seeing that a new undercover Santa he breaks

888
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: down the drug den's door. But it was just a

889
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 1: distraction because simultaneously other arm cops descended from the second floor.

890
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 1: It was a total Santa.

891
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 2: Move this part of it.

892
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: But the reindeer came from the roof though. So I

893
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: think these undercover peruving cops, they're just like like you

894
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: said earlier, some drama kids. They couldn't find steady work

895
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: in Perus, they became undercover cops. You know what, Mom's

896
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: proud of me now because I got healthcare either way,

897
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: so they get a real steep discount at the local

898
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: costume shop.

899
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,879
Speaker 2: I guess imagine since that one was fun, where they

900
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 2: plant cocaine and they just take the cart of a seizure.

901
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: Hey, the Saint Florida, don't don't blame don't blame Peru.

902
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 1: They ain't like Florida, Elizabeth. Since that one was fun,

903
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 1: I got another wild one for you. Yes, okay, there's

904
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 1: always danger when you're working as an undercover cop, right

905
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 1: because that some other cop might come along and shoot you.

906
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 2: Well, no, the biggest danger you might fall in love.

907
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: With the man in the mirror. Dateline, Albuquerque, New Mexico,

908
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,720
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. A cop is working undercover on a drug bust.

909
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: That's when Blue on Blue crime occurred, Elizabeth. You see

910
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: Detective Jacob Grant as I said, working undercover on a

911
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,280
Speaker 1: drug buy, working with a partner. He and his partner

912
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 1: in a follow car. The cars are surrounded by cops.

913
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 1: The officers swarmed the drug buy cars. In the video,

914
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: there's a video of this footage, right, and there's like

915
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 1: especially like body cam footage. Lieutenant Greg Brackley, I'm just

916
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 1: gonna call it Broccoli anyway, he enters the scene, weapon drawn.

917
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 1: He approaches a car from the drug bust. He tells

918
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 1: the folks inside the car put your hands right and

919
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: saalm put your hands wrong and seal them right one second.

920
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 1: One second later, Lieutenant Greg shouts gun, gun, gun, and

921
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: then he unloads his service weapon into the car. He

922
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: shoots his own detective eight times. Oh god, wait, how

923
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 1: did I get to that so quickly? How did a

924
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 1: police lieutenant shoot his own detective on a coordinated drug bust. Well,

925
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: let's back up, Elizabeth.

926
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:24,879
Speaker 4: Yeah.

927
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 1: According to the lieutenant, Greg BROCCOLI's supervisor, the lieutenant did

928
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 1: not attend the briefing before the bust.

929
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 2: Oops.

930
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: No, yeah, So then when the bust went down hit,

931
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:36,879
Speaker 1: the lieutenant still responded to the call because he wanted

932
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: to get in on the action. So he shows up

933
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 1: not knowing the details or the particulars, and then he

934
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: gets on the scene weapon drawn enters right. So the

935
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 1: detective who was seated behind the driver, who was also

936
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: an undercover cop, so they're working as a tag team. This,

937
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: by the way, is considered standard procedure. Apparently the partner's

938
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: position himself behind the driver to protect him and have

939
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: a clear view of both the other passenger seats. So

940
00:44:58,040 --> 00:44:59,919
Speaker 1: that's that they should know that this is the under

941
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: driver undercover cops right behind him. Everybody knows that, and

942
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 1: apparently under this standard operating procedure slipped BROCCOLI's mind. So

943
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: Detective Grant pulled his service weapon on the suspects in

944
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: the car with him, as was the protocol and what

945
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 1: everybody else was expecting except for Broccoli. Broccoli se he's gone, gone, gone,

946
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: and goes click click click eight times, shooting his fellow officer,

947
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:27,240
Speaker 1: his own detective, like from his department. Yeah, so he

948
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: he just lights him up, right, So Broccoli finally he

949
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: recognized the detective Grant after he squeezed off eight into him,

950
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: and he says, Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know it

951
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 1: was you. I thought you were a bad guy. Literal

952
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 1: quote Elizabeth, I'm sorry, I didn't know it was you.

953
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: I thought you were a bad guy.

954
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 2: I am so annoyed when grown ups talk about bad guys,

955
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 2: not so much just when people in lawn forcedness bad guys.

956
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:55,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, are you talking to a six year old?

957
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 2: Wait? Tell me we didn't hit one percent on this.

958
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: Surprisingly, Detective Grant survived the shooting like he's got like

959
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: fifty cents and like Tupac's kind of like, you can't

960
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: be five eight nine times. I'm taking it anyway. After

961
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 1: a court fight, he and the city settled for six

962
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: point five million. I'm sure both Tupac and fifty would

963
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: not like me comparing a cop surviving a shooting to

964
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: them surviving a shooting. But I was just talking bullets, Elizabeth.

965
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: After the officer's body cam footage was released, the Police

966
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: Oversight Agency said that Lieutenant Brockley quote made sufferal mistakes

967
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: that could have been prevented using common sense, and the

968
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 1: agency recommended broccli be fired. So however, he retired before

969
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,720
Speaker 1: that could happen. By the way, this was not Lieutenant

970
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 1: Brockley's first botch shooting. Back in nineteen ninety eight, he

971
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 1: responded to a call at a home in Albuquerque domestic dispute.

972
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,879
Speaker 1: A husband was there fighting, or an ex husband fighting

973
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: with his ex wife and his neighbor or her neighbor. Rather, I imagine,

974
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: Broccoli shows up on the scene, draws his weapon, and

975
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: then when he sees a man exit the home with

976
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: his hands raised over his head, Broccoli shoots the clearly

977
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: unharmed man. The guy survived, Elizabeth, you don't have to

978
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: worry and get this. He was charged with assault on

979
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 1: a police officer.

980
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me?

981
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: Nope? Okay, So I save the best for last, for.

982
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 2: What like punching the bullets with his body.

983
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: I guess he came out heated. So twenty seventeen, a

984
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: group of undercover Detroit police officers they attempted to arrest

985
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,800
Speaker 1: a second group of undercover Detroit police officers at a

986
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 1: drug buy. According to the UPI dateline November twenty seventeen, Detroit, Michigan.

987
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 1: As Detroit Police Chief James Craig said, quote, it is

988
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: probably the most embarrassing thing I've seen in this department.

989
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: And brother, they had some embarrassing moments. So the story goes.

990
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 1: On November ninth, two officers from the twelfth precinct. Right,

991
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: a drug buy posing as drug dealers there to do

992
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: a reverse sting. We've talked about those, to bust the buyers. Yeah,

993
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: undercover cops wait for the buyers. Two dudes show up

994
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: at the drug house. They're the buyers, but really they're

995
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: also undercover cops from the eleventh precinct.

996
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 2: None of the officers know each other and even like, oh,

997
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 2: the two different departments are talking and not talking to.

998
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,359
Speaker 1: Two different precincts like with the eleventh in the twelfth department. Yeah,

999
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: they should have probably communicated away. The undercover cops posing

1000
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 1: his buyers approached the drug house round six pm, just

1001
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: after the middle of the rush hour. Elizabeth. Outside the

1002
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: drug house, the two undercover cops they confront these two

1003
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 1: people they see outside several doors away from the drug house.

1004
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 1: They they were, as I said, the undercover cops from

1005
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 1: the twelfth precinct, the under two undercover cops from the

1006
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:21,240
Speaker 1: eleventh precinct, the buyers. They order the two other undercover

1007
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,760
Speaker 1: cops to the ground. There's some resistance to this whole plan,

1008
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: so one cop pulls a shotgun out and he aims

1009
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 1: it at the two other undercover cops. Oh, they're backup.

1010
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 1: More cops from the eleventh Precinct come flooding over to

1011
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: the drug house. They attempt to serve a search warrant,

1012
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 1: a right. According to the Chief of Police, that's when

1013
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: it oh, when it's starting to go terribly wrong. So

1014
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 1: the two groups of undercover cops start getting territorial. They're arguing,

1015
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: shouting at each other. Hot words turn into thrown fists.

1016
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 1: A full on brawl breaks out outside the drug house.

1017
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 1: Cops are fighting cops. There are twenty four cops involved

1018
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 1: in this fractice. Twenty four men I'm assuming mostly men,

1019
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: are all men. Some of them are fully swatted out

1020
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: by the way where their urban tactical assault here, and

1021
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 1: carrying assault rifles and just beating on each other. And yeah,

1022
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: they're just shoving each other around and by the way,

1023
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: when it was all over, two cops are injured in

1024
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 1: the melee, so they weren't even really hurting each other,

1025
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: none seriously hurt anyway. I don't know what the chief

1026
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 1: of police said, they appear to be like Keystone cops.

1027
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: He also had it that at one point during the situation,

1028
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: one officer grabbed another and then that officer then put

1029
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 1: that officer in a headlock. Then punch gets thrown and

1030
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: the officer punch is back. So they're doing like wrestling

1031
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 1: moves on each I mean, it's just ridiculous. So according

1032
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 1: to the Chief of Police, the supervisor from the twelfth Precinct,

1033
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 1: this cat Elizabeth. He was known to get his guys

1034
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 1: fired up before a drug bust. This time they went

1035
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 1: a little awry. Appeers that this supervisor did not have

1036
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: control of situation.

1037
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 2: He thanks Chief.

1038
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: Chief James Craig again, right, and I quote, it had

1039
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: a tendency to get the officers from twelve Precinct excited

1040
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: to the point where we have this very embarrassing situation.

1041
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 1: So how did this even happen? Right, Well, the cops

1042
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:04,240
Speaker 1: they blamed quote crossed wires with communications. There was no communications.

1043
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: There was no wires, crossed wires. What the officers they

1044
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: tried to downplay the incident by saying it could have

1045
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: been worse. We could have shot each other.

1046
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 2: I think this is what those LA Sheriff Department protocols

1047
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 2: are aiming to eliminate.

1048
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 1: With the supervision with the central network. Yeah, both the

1049
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:23,879
Speaker 1: FBI and the LA Sheriffs, but I hate to give

1050
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: them credit, but they figured out you can't have people

1051
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: running around crimes because I'm a cop.

1052
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 2: Isn't there also where you For the most part, the

1053
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 2: guideline is that you get clearance to do this, but

1054
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,439
Speaker 2: you don't necessarily have to, so anyone can just go

1055
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 2: rogue and decide to do an undercover.

1056
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: They have to be an undercover cop. But you can't

1057
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: just be like an uniform chop and like, I'm an

1058
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 1: undercover to know.

1059
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 2: But I'm saying, like, so if you're if you're already

1060
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 2: designated an undercover cop, what's to stop you? It sounds

1061
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 2: like from the guidelines from being like, well, I've got

1062
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 2: this operation, I just haven't told.

1063
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 1: Them, yes exactly, that's pretty much you can pretty much

1064
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: pull off a lot of like kind of wretch active

1065
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: covering of your ass. Oh yeah, you don't understand who

1066
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 1: was I had a c I told me. I'm like,

1067
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 1: he's dead, I lost him, he's gone whatever. Yeah, so yeah,

1068
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: I remember, there's very little oversight, and the judges are like,

1069
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: I gotta believe him. He's a cop. And also these

1070
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 1: are genuine feelings, Elizabeth, so uh, women's yeah, everyone, yeah,

1071
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: cops feelings. It's blue, it's a blue line. Elizabeth so Uh.

1072
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 1: One resident who watched the twenty four cop on cop

1073
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 1: fight go down, they were asked for their advice for

1074
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 1: the police. Was funny, like you saw it to go down, sir,

1075
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 1: what did you? What are your thoughts? You live across

1076
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 1: the street from this drug house? What do you think?

1077
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: What's your life advice for the police? And they said,

1078
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: and I quote, I don't know, maybe try using the

1079
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,319
Speaker 1: radios you have on you and in every car, try

1080
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 1: talking with each other. Yeah, that's I didn't say that

1081
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 1: at all. I paraphrased that. He just said track communicating,

1082
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: which I think is really the point. So there you go,

1083
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Boom, what's our ridiculous takeaway here?

1084
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 2: You know, humans are interesting?

1085
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 1: You could say that against that.

1086
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 2: It's like, how how do we, you know, societally address

1087
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 2: the ills that we face. And it's like you obviously

1088
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 2: none of us want people abusing drugs and you know,

1089
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 2: so this that notion gets spiraled out into all these horrendous.

1090
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 1: Like preemptive things. We're gonna we're gonna go out there

1091
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: and fight crime by doing crime.

1092
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 2: Work against the eris the criminals. I don't want it.

1093
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,439
Speaker 2: I don't want people abusing drugs. But you go ahead

1094
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 2: and abuse drugs if you have to.

1095
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 1: I have to. It goes with the Wan shirt.

1096
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 2: And we're very strange. We're very strange. We always miss

1097
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 2: sight of like the core mission on stuff.

1098
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 1: You know my standing legalize it.

1099
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is you stand. Is that your ridiculous take away?

1100
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 1: Take away? You would cut down on so much of this,

1101
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 1: you know, like put it in the hands of the

1102
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 1: of you know who I wanted to have. I want

1103
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 1: to go to like a pharmacist and go can I

1104
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 1: get my cocaine? And then we know how the we

1105
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: know how those protocols go. The pharmacists is like, no, sir,

1106
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: you don't get cocaine, or yes, sir, you do because

1107
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 1: I want that. I don't want cops involved in like

1108
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 1: you want to buy some cocaine. No, give it to

1109
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: pharmacyt that's for all of it. In the taxi regulated,

1110
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 1: make it clean. Can tell you you reduce the crime.

1111
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: In the dark is where the crime occurs. Turn the

1112
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,959
Speaker 1: lights on. Hire some people who have badges and white

1113
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: lab coats. Anyway, what's uh else? Before I got for you? Well,

1114
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: do you want to move for a talkback? Go into

1115
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 1: one of those. I'm always you got to talk back

1116
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 1: on the queue. Let's see flipping through my talk back

1117
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 1: index cards. Let's go with this one.

1118
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 5: Oh god, I love cheat.

1119
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 6: Hey, Saron and Elizabeth, I just listened to your episode

1120
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 6: on furries and you asked the question how do furries

1121
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:47,839
Speaker 6: attach their tails?

1122
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 2: I know because of Girl Scouts, so weird.

1123
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 6: But anyway, I was recently at a girl Clak campre

1124
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 6: and we had a fourth or fifth grader who insisted

1125
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:03,720
Speaker 6: on wearing a tail no matter what we're doing, canoeing, hiking, whatever,

1126
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:05,319
Speaker 6: she had to have this tail on.

1127
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 2: She used a clip like a clip on tie.

1128
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 1: That helps by I love that answers the question not

1129
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: help it does help me. It helps me. Thank you.

1130
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 2: That doesn't help me in my overall assessment.

1131
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: You're so funny.

1132
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 2: Why did they make me so irritated?

1133
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,839
Speaker 1: I do not know. You know, let your freak flag.

1134
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 2: I don't care to do their thing, but like you know,

1135
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 2: if you feel like you got to wear a tail

1136
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 2: when you're rafting, like.

1137
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 3: I always going on with this kid, it's whatever, let

1138
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,800
Speaker 3: them have their tails. It's like Dumbo in like the

1139
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 3: little cricket, Jimmy cricket right, let him have Jimmy Cricket

1140
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 3: or the feather. I don't care either, get one imaginary

1141
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 3: creature or a feather.

1142
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 1: I don't care. All right, Lea's always uh. You can

1143
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 1: find us online if you'd like some more of this

1144
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 1: everydics crime run social media's you have. We have our website,

1145
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:54,399
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime dot com and obviously we love you talk back,

1146
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,920
Speaker 1: so please hit up the iHeart app, download it, leave

1147
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 1: us a talk back and maybe you'll hear your voice

1148
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 1: here and also emails if you like Ridiculous Crime at

1149
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:04,919
Speaker 1: gmail dot com and started out. Dear producer, d there

1150
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: you go, Thanks for listening. We'll catch you next crime.

1151
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,360
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizad mc dutton and Zaron Burnett,

1152
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 1: produced and edited by the Man of a Thousand Disguises

1153
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 1: Dave Cousten, and starring Analice Rutger as Judith. Research is

1154
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 1: by care Beert Comrades, Marissa Brown and Andrea Song Sharpened Tear.

1155
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Thomas Mando. I love street Food,

1156
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 1: Lee and Travis nothing better than street Meat Dutton. The

1157
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 1: host wardrobe provided by Botany five hundred guests Harry makeup

1158
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 1: by Sparkleshot and mister Andre. Executive producers are Ben Our

1159
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 1: favorite Detroit cop is Axel Foley Bowling and my favorite

1160
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills cop is also Axel Foley, Noel.

1161
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 2: Brown, Ridicus, Why Say It one more Time?

1162
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 1: Riudiquious Crime Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four

1163
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1164
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.