1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: Quality times, but Joseph's gotten more. Sometimes there's just cases 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: that stay with you over a protracted period of time, 3 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: and either it happens as a result that you're getting 4 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: I call it assaulted your ears assaulted every day by 5 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: the media, or it's something that puts a hook in 6 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: you and you can't get it out of your mind. 7 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: It's kind of been that way with the Susanne Morphy case. 8 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: From me started covering this thing, I don't know. I 9 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: guess it was in twenty twenty when it first dropped. 10 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: The first person I ever covered it with was Nance Grace, 11 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: and I didn't understand all the ends and that, but 12 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: there were so many layers to this thing relative to 13 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: how everything went down, her missing them, coming from Indiana 14 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: to Colorado, which always struck me as odd, and then 15 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 1: not being able to find her remains, and then to 16 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: add this one little piece that no one has ever 17 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: actually been held to account for her death. Well, as 18 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: of the last few days, that's changed. There's been an arrest, 19 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: there will be a prosecution, I think, of course, a 20 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: trial and finally maybe an outcome. But I wanted just 21 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: to briefly have a conversation with you today about some 22 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: insights that we now have as a result of court filing. 23 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: We're going to discuss it today. I'm Josephcott Morgan and 24 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: this is Bodybacks. Brother David, I think you've been on 25 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: this journey with me all along. I mean, you you 26 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: covered this case. It was Mother's Day, am I correct? 27 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,679 Speaker 1: It was twenty twenty, Correct, it was twenty twenty and 28 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: Mother's Day and Mother's Day is a big deal around 29 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: my house, you know, we it's a big deal. I 30 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: think that's you know it kind of it had that 31 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: effect on me, you know, relative to my wife and 32 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: the things that we we we always go to church 33 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: on Mother's Day. We try to go to church every Sunday, 34 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,959 Speaker 1: but we go to church. There's always a meal. Mom 35 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: doesn't have to cook, you know, those sorts of things, 36 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: and we flowers, car you know, everything along those lines 37 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: that you know, and she should be made to feel 38 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: special because in my world, Kimmy Sue does everything for 39 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: all of us and rarely, if ever complains. She will 40 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: complain if there's a sense of ingratitude about the things 41 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: that she's doing that maybe people take for granted. We 42 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: always try not to take it for granted. 43 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 2: But you know, it's usually the complaint is when it's 44 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 2: not for her, it's for you being taken for granted. 45 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: She'll fuss about somebody being taken for granted, but not herself. 46 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the selfless nature of a mother. 47 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: It is, It truly is. And with my wife, she's 48 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: the finest mama I've ever known. And I'd argue that 49 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: point with anybody. She would do anything for her kids, 50 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: and you know, by extent, she should do anything for me. 51 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 3: She's a mama bear too. 52 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: She is mam bear. Well, we'll be into the person 53 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: that falls in her lot of sight. She'll rip you 54 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: to shreds. But yeah, but she's she's good hearted, you know, 55 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: and that's what I love about her. She's good hearted 56 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: and patient. 57 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 2: I was actually looking behind this case, Joe, because I 58 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: knew that i'd covered it since it began, and it 59 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 2: was May of twenty twenty, so we're five years into 60 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 2: this now. And I remember when on Nancy Grace we 61 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 2: were talking about the case because it was a missing 62 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 2: person's case. It was a woman, Susanne Morphew, who gets 63 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: up on Mother's Day. She has two daughters, young adults 64 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: their college age, and her husband her husband, Barry, had 65 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 2: left early that morning for a job out of town. 66 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 2: He does construction stuff, and she had recently taken up 67 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 2: mountain bike riding and so that's what, you know, that's 68 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 2: what she was going to do. So it's Mother's Day 69 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 2: and she's by herself, and it's late in the afternoon 70 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 2: and the daughters are trying to call their mother. They're 71 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 2: on a camping thing that we can some special event 72 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 2: that they've been planning, and they talk to their mother 73 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: on a regular basis. They're all very close and they 74 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 2: can't get her on the phone, and so the daughters 75 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 2: reach out to a neighbor and says, hey, I can't 76 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 2: find you know, can't get up with mom. You know, 77 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 2: do you know she home or And the neighbor calls Barry. Hey, Barry, 78 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 2: your daughters are looking for mom. But they're looking for Suzanne. 79 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 2: They can't find her anywhere. And he's on the phone saying, okay, 80 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 2: go check my house, go over and you know, see 81 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 2: if her car is there. See if And that's when 82 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: Barry more few it's like five point thirty in the afternoon. 83 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 2: He says, you know, see if her mountain bike's there. 84 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 2: She's been bike riding and that's when the neighbor comes back. 85 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 2: She's not home. Her car is here, but her bike 86 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 2: is gone. That's when the missing person's case began. She 87 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 2: must have gone on a bike ride, but she never 88 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 2: made it back. So boom Berry's on his way back 89 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 2: home and police are called. Then they show up and 90 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 2: their report was she goes on a bike ride and 91 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: let's trace the area she would have gone. Now, Barry 92 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 2: meanwhile gets back and they have found her bike. It's 93 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 2: not that far from their home. And it's not a 94 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 2: biking on a trail that she would not, like, a 95 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 2: dirt trail, but a road. We're not talking massive highways here. 96 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 2: It is out of the country, but you know it's 97 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 2: on a road. 98 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 3: And having. 99 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 2: The actual police bodycam footage of this event, Barry Morphew 100 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 2: shows up right after they have found the bike. He's 101 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 2: standing there and these two officers are saying, yeah, we 102 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: found the bike down the hill down there, and Barry 103 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 2: Morphew says, well, where is she? Do you think a 104 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 2: mountain lion got her? What a mountain lion? 105 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 3: Huh? 106 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 2: And so Barry Morphew was the one that suggested she 107 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 2: must have been attacked by an animal and drug off. Well, 108 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 2: I'm gonna give you a little heads up here. Mountain 109 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 2: lions in that area are rare. They do tend to 110 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: be solo artists. You know, they play by themselves and 111 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 2: they have a certain area that they play in and 112 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 2: that's it. And there aren't any in this area. So 113 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 2: his whole salesmanship on the mountain lion, any word you 114 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 2: have of that, came from Barry Morphew. While the her 115 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:28,239 Speaker 2: bike is still in the dirt. Okay, fast forward. Police 116 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: start looking into this, can't find Suzanne anywhere. The whole 117 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 2: idea of her bound mountain bike being found and her 118 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 2: being abducted. Hey, man, put up missing posts, you know, 119 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 2: missing persons posters. Well, people in town do it. Barry's 120 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 2: not real involved in it. Berry's involved with his girlfriend, oops, 121 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: Joshana Dark I think it was her name. Anyway, as 122 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 2: they start, they break down the thing with Barry early on. 123 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: You know, where were you? What kind of timetable? And 124 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 2: you know this is a This is an interesting point 125 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 2: for us nowadays, Joe. For those who think they can 126 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 2: lie their way out of anything, pay attention, because whether 127 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 2: it's Arry Morphew, Alec Murda, Brian Coberger. There's one thing 128 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: all three of these guys have in common. Only one 129 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 2: is convicted too, are accused, but it was their cell 130 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: phone data. 131 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: Yep, because single Tom. 132 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 3: If you think turning your cell phone off. 133 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 2: For a very important part of time, you know, out 134 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 2: of the blue, is going to work, it doesn't. Because 135 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 2: if you always have your cell phone on on a 136 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 2: regular basis, but on this one particular day, at one 137 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 2: very very important time in question, your phone is turned 138 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 2: off and then it gets turned back on an hour later. 139 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 2: And that happened it two or three times, always at 140 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 2: very important times of well, we're looking for your wife, 141 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 2: but your phone was off for this hour. Your phone 142 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 2: was off here again, And that's never ever happened in 143 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 2: the history of you having a cell phone. It's never 144 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 2: been turned off at those times. 145 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 3: You got a. 146 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: Problem, Yeah, you really do, because you can be tracked 147 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:23,959 Speaker 1: and I always and this is not about tracking. Well, 148 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: it's not about turning off cell phone. But I don't 149 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: know if you remember, because we did cover this case 150 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: because it's so heartbreaking. Do you remember the young Mennonite 151 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: woman that was kidnapped I think it was in New 152 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: Mexico and she was by the airman, the guy that 153 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: was in the Air Force, and he kidnapped her from 154 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: their little Mennonite community and took her from there. She 155 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: was going in if I remember correctly, to set up 156 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: set up for Sunday school or something. You know, she 157 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: he was one of these folks that would she taught. 158 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: And in addition to that she was going to do 159 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: I think it was Sunday school. I'm not really sure. Anyway, 160 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: he snatched her from that location. And the thing about 161 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: their cell phones, she had a cell phone on her. 162 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: He had a cell phone on him, David, I'll never forget. 163 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: I can't remember which one of our friends. That's the 164 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: digital forensics guy. I saw the map they created, and the. 165 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 3: Name is Sasha Kraus, by the way. 166 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: That's miss Kraus, that's right. And their phones were traveling 167 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: in tandem through the great wide open out there out west. 168 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: And you know, she she was later found, you know, 169 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: deposited out in Sage, you know, in Arizona, somewhere in 170 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: this isolated, horrible area. And of course he had, if 171 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: I remember correctly, he had popped her once in the 172 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,719 Speaker 1: back of the head with a rifle. 173 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 2: And blackstaff Arizona. She was from Farmington, New Mexico. Yeah, Staff, Arizona. 174 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 2: If you're on the interstates, that would be on I 175 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 2: forty goes through Flagstaff and I think. 176 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Flagstaff location, I've always wanted to visit up 177 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: in northern Arizona. Unbelievable. Yeah, here, it's there now. Yeah, 178 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 1: and the heat here, the you know. And that's the 179 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: thing about it is you can be tracked anywhere. And 180 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 1: we're seeing this more and more, but with more few 181 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: going back during that period of time. Isn't it interesting 182 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: how it's not so much about I think that there's 183 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: going to be a whole sub specialty that will develop 184 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: in human the study of human behavior as it relates 185 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: to digital interaction and what they can assess about your 186 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: whereabouts or about your activities relative to these boat anchors 187 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: that we carry around our pockets everywhere we go. And 188 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 1: this is a great example of that. One thing that 189 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: was yeah, I'm sorry. One thing that was important that 190 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: you guys know, because you followed this podcast, another Crime 191 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: through Crime podcast, you know that Suzanne Morpheu's husband, Barry 192 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: was charged. 193 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 3: He was put in jail. His daughters, their daughters stood 194 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 3: beside him as. 195 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 2: He was awaiting trial, and then a week before the trial, 196 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:20,559 Speaker 2: by the way, the charges were dismissed without prejudice. 197 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: Without prejudice. Yeah. 198 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 2: Now the prosecutor a woman named Linda Stanley. Yeah, I'm 199 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 2: making sure I got in the eight isn Linda Stanley. 200 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 2: She as a prosecutor. They have certain rules they have 201 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,959 Speaker 2: to abide by. One of those would be turning over 202 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 2: information that could be exculpatory. 203 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: Yep. 204 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 2: You know when you get into discovery. Friends, Hey, you've 205 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,959 Speaker 2: got a lot going against you if you're the suspect, 206 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 2: and they got a lot of stuff to bear, but 207 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 2: you have a right to know everything they got and 208 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 2: they have to turn it over to you. And if 209 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 2: they don't, there is there actually are real there's help 210 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 2: to pay. Linda Stanley actually then went after the judge 211 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 2: in the case and it became a whole fiasco, and 212 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 2: that was one of the reasons that led to them 213 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 2: dropping the charges. And then Linda Stanley was later disbarred. Okay, 214 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 2: so the former district attorney that originally prosecuted was going 215 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 2: to prosecute Barry Morphew ends up getting disbarred. So the 216 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 2: other reason they cut him loose the first time they 217 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 2: hadn't found Suzanne Morphu's body. It was a missing person, 218 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 2: no body homicide case. And to be honest with you, 219 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 2: that's always a tough sell because no matter what, no 220 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 2: matter what you have, no matter what type of evidence 221 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 2: you think you have, I can still stand up as 222 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 2: the defense and say he didn't do it. She's hiding. 223 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 2: She could walk in this door two days after you 224 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 2: convict him, you sentenced him to death. 225 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 3: She could walk through the door. 226 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: Yep. 227 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 2: And based on the problems they had with the prosecutor, 228 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 2: based on the fact that they thought they knew where 229 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 2: her body was but they couldn't get to it because 230 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 2: of the snow, they decided, okay, well we'll drop this. 231 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 2: A week before trial begins in April, they dropped the 232 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 2: charges and they find her body several months later. And 233 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 2: what they found, Joe, you're going to have to explain 234 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 2: because I didn't understand it then, Yeah, and I know 235 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 2: less now, even though he's been the rest of The. 236 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: More knowledge you acquire, the more confused you become. I've 237 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: had that happen to me at several points along along 238 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: my career, and I think that that this is this 239 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: is a piece to this and there's some interesting terminology 240 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: that's going to come up, you know, as we have 241 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: this discussion. One one word in particular stands out because Dave, 242 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: being the best producer in the business bar none, He's 243 00:14:55,200 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: provided me with the rendering from the grand jury, and 244 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: it's fascinating, to say the very least. But there's a 245 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: term that's used in this document that has elicited quite 246 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: a bit of confusion about what exactly it means. I'll 247 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: give you a hint. It has to do with household 248 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: cleaning as opposed to a result from being left in 249 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: the sun. We heard early on Dave and I have 250 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: a distinct memory of this of very Morphew having been 251 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: in a hotel room at some point in time along 252 00:15:55,960 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: this timeline, and one witness had stated that relative to 253 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: his motel hotel room, there was a strong odor of 254 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: bleach in that room. And I never could make heads 255 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: or tails of that really, because you know, I'm thinking 256 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: generally at a crime scene when people use bleach, they're 257 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: trying to eradicate blood in some way. They're trying to 258 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: because bleach is so very caustic it can certainly destroy 259 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: certain things. I don't think that it is as effective, 260 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: as many criminals believe that it is. However, there was 261 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: always this specter that raised its head in a more 262 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: few case that something had happened in a hotel room 263 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: that may or may not have been associated with Suzanne's 264 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: disappearance at that particular time. Or could it been he 265 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: was just doing cleaning of his own in his hotel room, 266 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: did he have clothes that needed to be cleaned, or 267 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: something like this. So we were a bit confused, and 268 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: still to this day, I think that there's a bit 269 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: of confusion relative to the timeline. However, things became or 270 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: came into focus relative to her body finally being discovered, 271 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: or what remained of her body out there in this county, 272 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: far from mountain Lions, by the way, in this isolated 273 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: area that you sit there and you scratch your head 274 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: about it. And this goes to the idea, the more 275 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: information you have, the more confused you are. How did 276 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: she even wind up there in this particular location because 277 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: it is so incredibly isolated. 278 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 2: I'm curious, Joe, because when they were talking about the 279 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 2: smell from the hotel room that he was in, now 280 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 2: there was a strong smell coming out of that hotel 281 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 2: room and there was. The idea was sold that it 282 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 2: could be chlorine, like the chlorine use in a swimming pool, 283 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 2: which most people know that it smells like bleach, and 284 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 2: that was something that seemed odd. Why would you have 285 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 2: bleach in a hotel room. Well, the story that Barry 286 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 2: Morphew told was that he left that morning, went to 287 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 2: do this work out of town, and that he they 288 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 2: had a hotel room, and but he was working on 289 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 2: the site, you know, all day, and then he came 290 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 2: back to the hotel room, tacked down and went back 291 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 2: home when he found out she was missing. That was 292 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 2: pretty much what he said. Well, they were able to 293 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 2: prove fairly early on that didn't happen, based on again 294 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 2: your cell phone technology and eyewitness accounts, and they were 295 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 2: able to figure out that, Yeah, he did go to 296 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 2: the hotel, but he and he went to a job site. 297 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 2: But he wasn't supposed to be at the job site 298 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 2: till late that afternoon, early evening. He said, he left 299 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 2: at five point thirty in the morning. He even had 300 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 2: he was supposed to pick up an employee to go 301 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 2: with him, but he decided I'm going to leave by myself. 302 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 2: So the employee's like, well, what the heck. So the 303 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 2: employee gets up there and nothing's been done, and he's like, 304 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 2: you've been up here all day, but nothing's done, and 305 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 2: your hotel room smells like bleach. You know, that's where 306 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 2: all this starts coming from. None of it made any 307 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 2: kind of sense, So police really did. They were zeroing 308 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 2: in on Barry Morphew based on his attempts to tell 309 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 2: a story that just didn't hold up well. 310 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: I think another as Tom went by, I think that 311 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: another red flag. And Dave, how many times have we 312 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:37,880 Speaker 1: heard the same story? Kind of an apathetic view toward 313 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: getting the word out. You know, you're talking about people 314 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: putting up flyers and all this sort of thing, and 315 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: anytime you see it's you know, it's my analogy of 316 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 1: the hanging curveball. You know, it's like you leave it 317 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: out over the plate, they're going to hit it. You 318 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: know they're going to It's going to happen sooner or later. 319 00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 1: And when you showed no interest in a case our 320 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:06,479 Speaker 1: limited interest, you're kind of feigning you know, it's a 321 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 1: red flag for the police and all of the investigators 322 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: involved in a case like this, they're going to look 323 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,479 Speaker 1: at you even harder. You know, you for people that 324 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: just in my experience, for people that are have been 325 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,880 Speaker 1: on a team, particularly loved ones that are looking for someone, 326 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: and of course we when I would come into it, 327 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 1: it would always be they had found a body, and 328 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 1: you could and I've been around these teams of people 329 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: that had been looking, you know, hoping against hope that 330 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 1: it was going to be a missing person's case. And 331 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: you see this kind of it's almost a religious uh 332 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: uh fervency about this. You know, we're going to find 333 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 1: We're gonna you oh yeah, candlelight visuals, we're gonna move 334 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: heaven and hell, we're gonna do everything we can. And 335 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: then you've got the person that is most closely associated 336 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: with you in the world, that you've shared a life with, 337 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: that you've brought two lives into the world with, and 338 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: there's just kind of well yeah. 339 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and especially if you might have problems in the marriage, 340 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 2: you know, if maybe there's been some stuff going on. 341 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 2: Hey man, you know what, even if there were things 342 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 2: going on, if your spouse truly was missing, you're not 343 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 2: going to walk away from twenty five thirty years without 344 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 2: Hey where is she? 345 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 3: Look? 346 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 2: Yes, I have a girlfriend, Yes she's talking to an 347 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 2: old boyfriend. But you know what, we're still living together. 348 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 2: Where's my wife? You know, you would lay all your 349 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 2: cards on the table just to get it out. You 350 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 2: wouldn't try hiding anything, because the most important thing is 351 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 2: not covering yourself. Scott Peterson, It's important to tell the truth. 352 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 2: Oh I have a girlfriend, but I didn't kill my wife, right, 353 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 2: you know anything that I just cannot imagine, Joe. 354 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: I think what's interesting about it is that many times 355 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 1: in cases like this you have individuals that do it's 356 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: almost like their perception of reality is so skewed. They 357 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: don't think that they're going to be found out or 358 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: these things that they've been involved in are not going 359 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,199 Speaker 1: to be found out. One way or another, evidence is 360 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 1: going to lead back to you. Whether it's electronic or 361 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: it's eyewitness evidence. It could be your your truck that 362 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: you're using, you know, with the data pack that's on there, 363 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: any number of things are going to wind up pointing 364 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,439 Speaker 1: a finger back at you, or at least, you know, 365 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: compel people to ask you more specific questions because they're 366 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 1: not getting anywhere. Because when these cases start out as 367 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: a missing person's case, and particularly something so odd like this, 368 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 1: where you've got the bike that is in this odd area, 369 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: you know, And I think, if I remember correctly, there 370 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 1: was a helmet that was found at some point in time. Yeah, 371 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: and it was like a day or two later. And 372 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: then you go out and you start talking about mountain lions, 373 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: unless go to yeah, no kidding, and look, one of 374 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that mountain lions are not a problem, 375 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: because one of the most horrible cases. When I was 376 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: attending the American Academy of Forensic Science meeting years ago, 377 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 1: this forensic odin Tyler's got up and told a story 378 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,199 Speaker 1: or presented the case. I could have sworn David it 379 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 1: was in Boulder, Maybe it wasn't. A lady had gone 380 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: out jogging and the path ran through a forest and 381 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: there were these rock shelves and I've never seen anything 382 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,360 Speaker 1: like this in my life. We don't have that many 383 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 1: mountain lines around these parts. And she had parked her 384 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: car and it was like this nature trail you could 385 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: jog on. There were these two guys that were going 386 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: to go it's like a lunchtime thing, and they saw 387 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: her leave and they were stretching because they were going 388 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: to get on the path and run to when they 389 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: were running together in tandem. The mountain lion was eating 390 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,959 Speaker 1: this woman in front of them on the path, and 391 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: I saw the images for it. So and that was 392 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: in Colorado, of course, it's a great distance from where 393 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: this locale is. This local it seems as though that 394 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: it's more and I've seen the images. It's flatter, it's 395 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: kind of sage brushy looking. And I'm sure that the 396 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: area is quite beautiful. I hear that it is, and 397 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's rolling hills and that sort of thing. 398 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 1: But around the area where Susan Morphew's body is finally discovered, 399 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 1: there's nothing like rock shells hanging over. You know, you 400 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: were talking about how mountain lions they want to hide. 401 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 1: They're solitary creatures, so that you know, you know, that 402 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: dog just didn't hunt. 403 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 2: No, And Joe I mentioned earlier that you know, we 404 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 2: know that Barry was arrested, very more few he was arrested, 405 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 2: he was charged with her murder. A week away from trial. 406 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 2: They drop all the charges because they said two things. One, 407 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 2: we got to get rid of this prosecutor. We got 408 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 2: a problem there. But too is we think we know 409 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 2: where her body is. We know you know, because they 410 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 2: still didn't have her, and we can't get to every 411 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 2: body right now because of the snowpack. So they let 412 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 2: him go and he moves, you know, he moves away. 413 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 2: Actually he moved before then. He had moved to Indiana 414 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 2: right away, not long after she went missing. And that's 415 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 2: you know, there are so many things wrong with what 416 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 2: people do. But in this particular case, when they finally 417 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 2: did find her remains, Joe, they were shocked at what 418 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 2: they found, and I really I don't understand. I don't 419 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 2: understand a lot of what they found and the explanation 420 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 2: because of what we normally have with the remains when 421 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 2: they're found out in the woods. It's usually not a 422 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 2: full set. Usually it's a mandible, it's a bone here, 423 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 2: a bone there, and they're usually pretty scattered if a 424 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 2: body has just been deposited out in the middle of 425 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 2: nowhere because of wildlife and other things that take you know, 426 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 2: they don't just stay in one area. But even beyond that, 427 00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 2: there were other aspects of this case that were kind 428 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 2: of small me with regard to what Barry Morphew was 429 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 2: into with using dark guns and tranquilizers on animals to 430 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 2: remove their horns or what have you. I'm not a 431 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,199 Speaker 2: dear person, Okay, I don't understand all the things that 432 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 2: he claims to do with them, but there was one 433 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 2: thing in particular that he did that he was very 434 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 2: unique to this area. 435 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 3: He used a product called Bam Yeah. 436 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. And this product in and of itself is going 437 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: to play into, I think, Dave, into this narrative that 438 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: prosecution has now come to believe you as to what happened. 439 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: It's going to tell the tale of the tape. Because 440 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: even though when Susanne Morphew was discovered, all that was 441 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: left of her, all that remains, if you will, gave 442 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: us clues that this substance was still present in her skeletons. 443 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: Section eighteen three, Dash one two. Murder in the first degree, 444 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: a person commits the crime of murder in the first 445 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: degree if after deliberation and with intent to cause the 446 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: death of a person other than himself, he causes the 447 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: death of that person or another person. I got to 448 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: tell you, Dave, they have charged very more few with 449 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: first degree in Colorado, and that's another level. And this 450 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: this is going to if he has found guilty of 451 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: this charge, they are going to put him into the 452 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: state penitentiary for the rest of his natural life. They 453 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: have enough evidence to believe that he formed intent, and 454 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: it's called a variety of things in other states. You know, 455 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 1: you can think about premeditative event, intend to do bodily harm. 456 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 1: You know that winds up in someone's death. But you 457 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: have to form specific intent in order to do this. 458 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: And that's what the grand jury has come back with 459 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: in this case. That's pretty strong. And you know, many 460 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: times we can I think that you can look at 461 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: a case and see what they are charged with and 462 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: you get an idea, you can at least get a 463 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: peek behind the curtain as to the strength of the 464 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: evidence that might exist. And therein rest this this great 465 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: mystery up until you know, this past week. I don't 466 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,479 Speaker 1: know about you. I didn't see this coming. I did 467 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: not see us arrest coming. I figured that something was 468 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: going to happen eventually. But you know, with everything we've 469 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: been covering lately with Lisk and you know, would help 470 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: us the Idaho four and all these other cases that 471 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: are popping in the news, this came out of left field. 472 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 3: As far as I'm it was. 473 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 2: It was a surprise because we weren't watching for it. 474 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 2: But we also had a gunshy because of when they 475 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 2: dropped the charges. 476 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 3: You know, you had it going it. 477 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 2: It really looked like the case might have been corrupted enough, 478 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 2: to be honest with you, when you've got prosecutor and 479 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 2: misconduct being alleged and being proved to a degree when 480 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 2: the prosecutor is disbarred, you might have bigger problems. 481 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 3: Okay. 482 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 2: So when they came back with this indictment, you know 483 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 2: that they have crossed every t and dotted every eye. 484 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 2: Her body was not found in Chafee County where she 485 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 2: went missing. Her body was found in what it's called, 486 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 2: Saywatch County, and it's not spelled that way, just so 487 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,479 Speaker 2: you know, if you say it as a spelled it's 488 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,719 Speaker 2: going to come out Sagawatchee. 489 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 3: You know Watch. 490 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. 491 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 2: And when they did finally find her remains, and this 492 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 2: is a very happenstance, you realize that when her remains 493 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 2: were found in Sewatch County, about forty five miles from 494 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 2: her home, I believe it was the FBI that found 495 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 2: them and they were not looking for her out. 496 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: There, No, they weren't. 497 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 3: They were looking for a different body. 498 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, this area apparently was known to the FEDS as 499 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: a location where people that are involved in nefarious acts 500 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: might go to dump someone, and they had information. I 501 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: think that was in regards to another completely unassociated case. 502 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: Can you can you imagine going out to work a 503 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: case and you're maybe you're looking for a body or 504 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: you're looking for evidence, and all of a sudden you 505 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: come across something that you think might be associated with 506 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: your case, and it turns out to be. The remains 507 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: have been one of the most high profile homicides or deaths, 508 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: let's say that, you know, in the last decade, certainly 509 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: in that area of the country, but I think in 510 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: all of Colorado. I mean, people were buzzing about this 511 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: for years, Dave, I mean it, it was on the 512 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: news constantly. 513 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 2: It boggles my mind, you know that the way these 514 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 2: things turn, you know, have how they're not looking there 515 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 2: for her, but they find her and. 516 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 3: Then Joe, please explain, because I can't. 517 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 2: I've tried to. I've tried to understand this. But I 518 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 2: thought when they were talking about the condition of the remains, 519 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 2: that that maybe she had been buried someplace else, was 520 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 2: disinterred and moved to this location. 521 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 3: But that isn't apparently what happened at all? Is it? 522 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: Well, it's it's really hard to you know, kind of 523 00:31:55,400 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: understand the nature of the deposition of the remains. I've heard, 524 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: I've heard a couple of things that have floated about now. 525 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: One of the one of the really fascinating issues was, 526 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: or comments that someone has made recently, was did he 527 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:19,239 Speaker 1: allow her? See how can I put this? Did he 528 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: allow her? Did he sequester her remain somewhere where she 529 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:29,959 Speaker 1: was allowed to decompose in a contained area so that 530 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: you're not going to lose anything relative to any of 531 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: her mortal remains than after a period of time, grab 532 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: those remains and take them into posit them somewhere else. 533 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: And this is where the term that I had mentioned 534 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: previously comes up, because it's so odd, because I don't 535 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: know how to read it when I'm looking when I'm 536 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: looking at this document, Dave, they use the term bleached. Well, 537 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: because we know the history of what had happened with 538 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: the hotel room, and we know that bleach was involved there. 539 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: You have to really wonder if perhaps, just perhaps when 540 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: they say the bones were bleached, are they saying that 541 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: literally the bones had been bleached by a chemical chemical 542 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: bleaching or were the bones bleached by the sun, and 543 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: you know, because they're laid out in this particular area, 544 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's confusing to me. 545 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 3: I don't thought that was bleached by the sun. That's 546 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 3: what I thought. 547 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: But well, I had someone else say the other day. 548 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: They said, well, you know he's used bleach, and listen, 549 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: I got to tell you that at that early stage, 550 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: I want to, you know, kind of put this idea aside. 551 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: At that early stage in this case, if you're going 552 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: to use bleach to bleach skeleton remains, how are you 553 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: going to get them down or render them down to 554 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: a skeletal condition At that point in time when the 555 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: whole thing went down with the hotel, because it was 556 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: such a tight window, you would literally, this is so 557 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: ghastly to say, you would literally have to strip all 558 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: of the soft tissue off of her bones in order 559 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 1: to facilitate applying bleach to them. So for me, it 560 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 1: came down to the fact that the bones were in 561 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: fact laid out and bleached. Now as to where her 562 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: remains had been for all of this period of time, 563 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 1: one of the interesting things that comes up in this 564 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: document is that the entomologist who you know the forensic entomologists. 565 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,479 Speaker 1: This is a person that you know studies insect life 566 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: as it applies to human remains. By the way, a 567 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,720 Speaker 1: plug for one of the best entomologists that I know. 568 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: If you if you really want to check out somebody's 569 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,320 Speaker 1: really fascinating. He's actually a crime con a couple of 570 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,760 Speaker 1: years ago. He's a friend of mine. We've been friends 571 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: for a number of years. That a guy named doctor 572 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: Jason Bird b y r d. And he works at 573 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,399 Speaker 1: the Maple Center at the University of Florida, and he's 574 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: one of the best forensic entomologists anywhere. But one of 575 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: the things that you look for at a scene where 576 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: you have decomposed or having previously decomposed remains is you're 577 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: going to look for things like maggot husk out there 578 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: and from flies, and so flies are multi generational, so 579 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,720 Speaker 1: you will have that will go through their life cycle 580 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: multiple times where eggs will be laid, they'll burst forth 581 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 1: from these eggs, you'll have the maggot maggot shed's a husk, 582 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 1: and then you can see multiple generations of these things 583 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: out there and they'll surround the body. You can't miss them. 584 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 1: If you go out there, there's no evidence of that. 585 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: There's no evidence, So how do you how do you 586 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: explain that? And I think that that's one of the 587 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 1: big big questions. Also, clothing that is found most of 588 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 1: the Tom Dave is going to have some type of 589 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: decompositional staining, and that should be very pronounced. One of 590 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: the things that has been put forward was a body 591 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: undressed and redressed at some point in time. Ore was 592 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: clothing that was found with a body. Is it just 593 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: simply there to throw investigators off the scent, if you will. 594 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: The one confirmatory thing that they did find out there. 595 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: And I still remember this reflectively when we had talked 596 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,800 Speaker 1: about I can't remember we've done one or two episodes 597 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: on Susan Morphew, but the found that the cancer port, 598 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,479 Speaker 1: you know, because she's been treated and that's something that's 599 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: very resilient. So we know that that part that bit 600 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: was intact and it would stand out and they're you know, there, 601 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,800 Speaker 1: it's a man made it's not naturally everything, it's plastic, uh, 602 00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: and so that port would still be there and that's 603 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 1: uniquely identifiable back to her. I suspect that that was 604 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,240 Speaker 1: one of the things that we're looking for, at least 605 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: as a peripheral part of their process of identification of 606 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: her remains. 607 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,240 Speaker 2: You know, it's one of the things that they found. 608 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 2: And this is really important, and it shows up in 609 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 2: It showed up in the bones, it showed up in 610 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 2: the autopsy, and it shows up in all the reports 611 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:24,879 Speaker 2: now very Morephew used tranquilizers to tranquilize their dark gun, 612 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 2: and tranquilizers to sedate animals, big animals like deer that 613 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 2: he would then remove their antlers and things like that. 614 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 2: And when they searched the home they found this. They 615 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 2: found a dark gun in a gun case. They found 616 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 2: hypodermic needles that are used to inject the drug. And 617 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 2: he used a very specific drug. It's called it's a 618 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,319 Speaker 2: combination of drug. It's called BAM when it's used in 619 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 2: this order of beutrophenol, a, z opera, A, zaparone, and metatomidine. 620 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:03,760 Speaker 2: Those three together combined make up this. It's a elixir 621 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 2: of BAM. Yeah, cocktail. And there are some interesting things 622 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 2: to know about BAM. First of all, it is used 623 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 2: for large animals like deer too, okay, but it is 624 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 2: so controlled you can't get it without a prescription from 625 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 2: a veterinarian. And at the time that Susanne moreph You 626 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 2: went missing, there was one person in the state of 627 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 2: Colorado that had filled prescriptions for BAM, had a prescription 628 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,320 Speaker 2: for BAM, and that one person. 629 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 3: Was Barry Morphew. When they did the autopsy. 630 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 2: Oh, by the way, at the house where they found 631 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:54,320 Speaker 2: the dark gun and the hypodermic needles, they found something 632 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 2: in a dryer where it closed man's Perry shorts and 633 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:05,359 Speaker 2: the the cap. So what would one believe. I mean, 634 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 2: I'm just asking you to use some common sense. Let's see, 635 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 2: I have to have my shorts on. I took the 636 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 2: cap off, put it in my pocket, used it for whatever, 637 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 2: And because I don't normally wash my own clothes, I 638 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 2: left the cap and I ain't checked my pockets first. 639 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: Certainly plausible. Yeah, that's an interesting It's an interesting take 640 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,800 Speaker 1: on it because you know you're always going to forget something. 641 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: I say, you h they them will always always leave 642 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,879 Speaker 1: something behind when you begin to think. But the one 643 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,879 Speaker 1: thing that was left behind and just kind of give 644 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 1: you a breakdown on this, this cocktail chemical cock well, 645 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: these drugs are meant for sedation, Okay, so you've got 646 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:53,839 Speaker 1: one drug that is actually, ah, it's almost like an 647 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,400 Speaker 1: anti anxiety kind of thing that's blended in with another 648 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 1: drug that's used as an anesthetic. So when this has applied, 649 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 1: first off, the ideas and I think that you know 650 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: his previously, in the previous life, he had had a 651 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,920 Speaker 1: deer park, and that may have been in Indiana, I think, 652 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 1: and he would sedate these deer and he would you know, 653 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 1: take the antlers off of them for a variety of reasons. 654 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 1: I'm sure you know. Deer hunters actually use antlers to 655 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 1: create scraping sounds, you know, if they're up in a 656 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 1: tree stand. I'm not a deer hunter. A hunt duck 657 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 1: every now and then, but it's deer hunting. It has 658 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,400 Speaker 1: never been my thing. I don't believe in freezing my 659 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,279 Speaker 1: tail off, you know, early in the morning, I'd sit 660 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: in a blonde with a bunch of guys and laugh. 661 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:45,320 Speaker 1: But you know, you think about you think about that 662 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,319 Speaker 1: that he would have had experience with that, and then 663 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 1: the application of it. How are you going to put 664 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,239 Speaker 1: it into her system? And I think one of the 665 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 1: interesting things we will hear about in this particular case 666 00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:03,239 Speaker 1: is how how exactly did they know to examine her 667 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 1: bones and I'm talking about at a chemical level where 668 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,759 Speaker 1: they knew that they could find a remnant of this? 669 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,399 Speaker 1: Because I got to tell you, Dave, I think that 670 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: that's the only conclusion I can draw. Did they take 671 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,120 Speaker 1: a core out of the marrow of the bones, spin 672 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:22,359 Speaker 1: it down and then I don't This is the thing. 673 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 1: I don't think they could get a quantitative amount, Like 674 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 1: you can't say that she had this much on board. 675 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 1: It's not like doing a direct blood draw, but you 676 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 1: can get a qualitative amount. And this this drug, this 677 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 1: is not like like when you think about the Casey 678 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 1: Anthony case, where you know they've talked about chloroform and 679 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 1: all that thing, and chloroform is a naturally occurring thing. 680 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:52,080 Speaker 1: You know, it's given off by decomposing plants. So not 681 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 1: that that has anything to do with it, but it's 682 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,960 Speaker 1: that these drugs are not naturally occurring. So what what 683 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 1: does that leave us with relative to an explanation. Did 684 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:06,760 Speaker 1: they did Were they able to render this down from 685 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,400 Speaker 1: like the marrow of the bone that would still be 686 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 1: kind of protected and they found a qualitative amount of 687 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: the drug. Because you can't explain this. The other thing 688 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 1: that it leads you to is that in order for 689 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,359 Speaker 1: it to be in dwelling in the bone, Dave is 690 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,080 Speaker 1: that she would have had to have metabolized it, Okay, 691 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,400 Speaker 1: and that tells us a lot about the nature of 692 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: her death. So if she is injected with the stuff, 693 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 1: whether it's visaly a dark gun, or whether it's a 694 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 1: direct hypodermic im which is intermuscular injection, which you know, 695 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 1: if you're talking about with big animals, you're not going 696 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 1: to go into First off, you're terrified of them. Darry 697 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 1: will kill you if he's got antlers. You want to 698 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:56,440 Speaker 1: at a distant shoot it, and you're not going to 699 00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,280 Speaker 1: shoot it into a vessel. You're going to go im 700 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: which is muscular, and it's going to take them down 701 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:07,080 Speaker 1: after a few seconds. How how has it imparted into 702 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:11,600 Speaker 1: her body? And we know that it was in there 703 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:13,480 Speaker 1: long enough so that she would have had to have 704 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,800 Speaker 1: metabolized it in order for it to actually get into 705 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 1: her skeleton. Okay. If that's what they're saying, and it's 706 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,480 Speaker 1: it's really you know, it's kind of mind blowing. You know, 707 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,440 Speaker 1: at that point when you begin to think about it, 708 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 1: that they were able to just blind luck find her body, 709 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,480 Speaker 1: and then on top of it, be able to test 710 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 1: the remains and find this stuff on board with her. 711 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,840 Speaker 2: The one guy in the entire state that actually has 712 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 2: that prescription, and it's his wife who's missing, whose remains 713 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:51,200 Speaker 2: are accidentally found, and lo and behold, she has metabolized 714 00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:52,400 Speaker 2: this drug before death. 715 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:57,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that and again we don't we don't necessarily 716 00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,480 Speaker 1: have and I don't know that anybody can say, Dave, 717 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:06,800 Speaker 1: what her actual cause of death is. My suspicion is 718 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,160 Speaker 1: is that it will be left kind of hanging out there. 719 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:16,080 Speaker 1: The cause will be listed as homicidal trauma or homicidal 720 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,600 Speaker 1: circumstances or something like that, and it's kind of a 721 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,279 Speaker 1: it's very unfulfilling, you know, from a scientific standpoint, because 722 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:27,360 Speaker 1: you don't have any other scientific evidence to draw that conclusion. 723 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:30,960 Speaker 1: I think as this case moves forward, you're going to hear. 724 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,359 Speaker 1: First off, we're going to hear a lot of toxicology. 725 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 1: In this case, You're going to have U and you'll 726 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:42,880 Speaker 1: probably have maybe even a veterinarian h and maybe a 727 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 1: veterinary toxicologist because they have these special special people that 728 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,160 Speaker 1: do this to talk about the nature of this drug. 729 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,320 Speaker 1: And then You're going to have somebody else, probably a 730 00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,719 Speaker 1: forensic pathologist, that will go into is there there has 731 00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 1: to be a lethal level of this drug? Is this? 732 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 1: Is it possible that she could have been injected with 733 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:03,960 Speaker 1: enough of this stuff to kill her, but it wouldn't 734 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,680 Speaker 1: have been an immediate death. She would have had to 735 00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:09,759 Speaker 1: have metabolized it. What she injected with the stuff long 736 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,480 Speaker 1: enough for somebody to try to think about, Okay, she's out, 737 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,960 Speaker 1: she's sleeping. I know how long this lasts. What do 738 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 1: I do with her now? How do I kill her? 739 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,480 Speaker 1: And and what do I do with her? Remains a 740 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,960 Speaker 1: lot of this stuff remains a mystery. But it's like 741 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:25,960 Speaker 1: the old saying, you know, the journey of one thousand 742 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,160 Speaker 1: miles starts with the first step. There's already been missteps here, 743 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:34,040 Speaker 1: but it sounds as though they're on the right path now. 744 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,840 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body Backs.