WEBVTT - Generic Drugs and Marijuana Legislation 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:05.119 You're listening to the Bloomberg Opinion podcast. Catch us Saturdays 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:08.280 at one and seven pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:11.479 the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:13.760 on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:19.479 Welcome to Bloomberg Opinion I Amy Morris. This week we 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:24.320 look at medicine, from generic drugs to legalizing marijuana, mental 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:29.000 health to physical wellness. We'll talk with Jonathan Bernstein, who 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:33.200 makes the argument that legalizing marijuana would be good policy 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:37.599 for President Biden. And we're learning more about useless decongestants 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:40.479 and they're not the only over the counter products that 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:43.879 don't work as advertised. And we'll hear more about stress 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:47.279 from the pandemic and how it continues to linger. Now 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:49.440 we begin with generic drugs and how they may be 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:52.400 too cheap for their own good. More than ninety percent 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.520 of prescriptions in the US are filled with generic drugs. 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:59.800 These cheaper alternatives to branded medications have expanded access to 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:03.840 care for millions of Americans and saved the healthcare system 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:07.400 hundreds of billions of dollars each year. While the prices 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:11.800 of branded drugs have skyrocketed in recent years, generics prices 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:15.880 have been falling steadily, So what's the downside? Well, earlier 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:18.720 this year, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer called the current 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:23.399 drug manufacturing system broken, citing a national shortage of nearly 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:25.800 three hundred critical drugs. 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:29.479 From cancer drugs to everyday generics that deal with things 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:33.800 like ADHD and asthma and even common infections. They're out 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.800 of stock. Our doctors and our patients are near panic. 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.720 Okay, so let's talk about this now. Bloomberg Opinion editor 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:44.880 Rachel Rosenthal joins us. Now, Rachel, how can prices for 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:47.840 in demand products fall too low? It seems like there 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:49.080 would be no downside. 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:52.480 It would sound like that, but as ever, in the 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:56.080 healthcare market, the laws of supply and demand don't exactly 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:59.720 meet up. So what you've got in the generic space, 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:03.360 which has been a great boon to patients and providers 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.520 in healthcare systems, which I mean generics have saved the 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:10.919 US healthcare system hundreds of billions of dollars, as you've mentioned, 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:14.720 you know, but when you've got prices that fall too low, 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:17.840 you end up with companies that go out of business, 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:20.359 and you think, like, well, how is that possible? You know, here, 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:23.000 I am like, if I'm desperate for medication, I'd be 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:26.360 willing to spend more. But the consumer doesn't necessarily have 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.400 a lot of buying power. When you get to the 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:33.320 prescription drug market, there are lots of intermediaries that buy 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:37.560 on behalf of us sitting here as employees of Bloomberg, 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:41.280 if you're an employee in many other places. And so 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.359 what they do is they sort of aggregate their buying power. 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:50.200 And because of that, because they have these massive amounts 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:53.079 of buying power that is sort of aggregated among other 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:57.200 buyers as well, they can become gatekeepers too, are access 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:00.320 to prescription drugs, and so they can push prices where 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.360 they want them to go, which is down and without 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.160 that sort of floor that would be sort of driven 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:09.800 by a competitive market. And these are often expressed in 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.040 sort of contract terms that we don't see, you know, 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:15.760 at the pharmacy counter, and we just wonder why why 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.880 did this company go out of business? And it can really, 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:20.480 it can be really hard for a lot of these 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:24.720 generics manufacturers to pay their rise in costs of labor 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:30.000 among a number of other inputs. And you know, this 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:33.120 is this is all sort of boiled down to we 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:36.880 have an artificially suppressed access to generic drugs. 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:40.240 So I want to understand this middleman issue. Then you 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.040 have this drug middleman who was able to influence the 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:47.960 retail market by aggregating the contracts with pharmaceutical companies. 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:50.240 So what they do, and you know, the way you 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:52.960 can think about it, or the easiest way, and this 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:55.320 will be an oversimplification if you look at any of 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:57.840 these sort of drug supply chain float charts, which I 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:01.200 don't necessarily recommend, if you think about it, there's there's 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:05.600 a generics manufacturer supplier. They need to get their product 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:07.880 to a pharmacy counter, you know, and where you and 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:10.560 I go pick up our prescriptions. In between, there's a 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:15.880 wholesale distributor, so they pick up, you know, those palettes 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:19.200 of pills and they bring them to the pharmacy. That's 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:22.400 really hard to get around, that wholesale distributor and middleman. 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:27.400 So you know, for their services, you know, the church fees. 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:30.160 That all makes sense, you know, But what happens what's 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:35.400 been happening recently in the retail drug market, the pharmacies 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:39.800 and the wholesale distributors have been joining joining forces effectively, 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:44.159 and they've become sort of what's called retail buying groups 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:47.400 for lack of a better term, and they have because 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:51.599 they you can't get your pill to the counter without 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:56.400 these guys. Then they become very very powerful and determining prices. 0:04:56.760 --> 0:05:00.839 How much responsibility then, does the drug manufacture are bear 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:01.200 in this? 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:05.640 It's really important to distinguish between generic drugs and branded drugs. 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:10.520 So branded drugs almost by definition have no rival, you know, 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.320 and so they what we see in the in the 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:16.880 branded drug space is the conversation that has overtaken the 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:20.800 public sector, the public sphere, and conversations in Congress about staggering. 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.280 All we hear about is usually staggering the high drug 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:27.000 prices and how damaging they can be, and that that's 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:29.960 really because there's no competition there, you know, very little competition, 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:34.160 direct competition in the generic space. You know, it's it's 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:36.600 quite different, you know, because of the Hatchwaksmann Act, which 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:42.600 was passed nineteen eighty four, You've got the very definition 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:46.880 was generic drugs will are equivalent to each other and 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.400 to the branded drug and so you get what is 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:51.840 up happening is once a patent expires, you get this 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:54.880 rush to get into that for to be that first 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:58.159 generics maker to be able to compete, you know, and 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:02.200 so and if you are the first one, then you 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:04.440 get one hundred and eighty days of exclusivity. So that's 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:06.760 a huge I mean, that's why, that's why this whole 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:09.960 game keeps going because it can be very lucrative in 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:12.599 those first six months. So what you end up with 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:17.680 is very different from the branded space. You've got one. 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:20.960 In the generic space, you have many, many, many competitors, 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.200 and that that sort of drives the prices lower. 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.960 Now, you mentioned the Hatch Waxman Act that was back 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:32.680 in the mid eighties. Correct, just for our audience, just 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:34.640 a background. What does that act to do? 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:37.920 Sure, so that was really like the basis of the 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:41.640 generic drugs, the generic drug market as it exists today. 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:44.159 And you know it was I think it was designed 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:47.440 to both protect you know, to protect innovation, so to 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:51.479 make it to give incentives for branded drug companies to 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:54.160 in that. I mean, you know, there's a tremendous amount 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.160 of R and D that goes into you know, many 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:58.719 men and we've heard these statistics many many failures before 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:01.320 one successful drugs, and so I think part of this 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.359 was designed to sort of protect that incentive to innovate 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.760 and invest heavily, uh, you know, and then you know, 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:11.320 I think the there are certain guide posts to when 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:15.680 generics can enter in the market, and then you know, 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:19.240 there's certain exclusivity windows, as I mentioned before, and I 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:23.560 think sort of the the founding principle of patch Waxmen 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:27.240 was that, as I mentioned earlier, that generic drugs are 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:30.560 all equal to each other, and that if I take 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:34.120 generic from manufacturer A, it is chemically the same as 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:39.560 generic Manufacturer B is the same as branded drug you 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:42.720 know X, you know, and so I think as as 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:45.960 patients as people who take medicine, there have been many 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:49.360 many reports that that might not necessarily be true because 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:53.680 you know, the active ingredients can or the accipients or 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:56.240 you know, the different parts of the medication that are 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:59.120 supposed to do different things can can interact with your 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:02.040 body differently, you know. And I think people have heard 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:05.320 a lot about this, as there are increasing numbers of shortages, 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.440 efforts at pharmacies to sort of substitute has not always 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.360 been smooth. But that sort of explains that that sort 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:15.119 of principle has sort of been a double edged sort 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:17.480 of like that generics are all equal to each other, 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:22.920 because it does make it very difficult to discriminate between 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:25.880 when you're a patient, particularly and you go to the county, 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:27.680 you know, and you go to your fill your prescription 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:31.960 to say, oh, you know, I don't want this generic, 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:34.600 you know, from this company, but I'd prefer the generic 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:35.360 from that company. 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.640 And we are talking with Bloomberg Opinion editor Rachel Rosenthal 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:41.800 about how some generic drugs may be too cheap for 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:46.560 their own good, some unintended consequences, if you will, Rachel, 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:49.800 how do these drug discount programs like Medicaid or other 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.240 insurance programs impact this? 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.480 So I think, you know, what we've been discussing so 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:59.080 far is sort of the fundamental economics, and then there 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:02.040 are certain policies kind of exacerbate all this stuff, you know, 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:04.520 And so I think it would be a struggle to 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:06.680 say that, you know, all of this comes down to, 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.839 you know, the rapacious middle men. But I think that 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:15.120 as as you mentioned, there's Medicaid policies, the three forty 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:17.760 B discount program that sort of add another layer of 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:21.959 dysfunction on all this and all these sort of wacky economics. 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:26.320 And so, for example, in the Medicaid program, there's an 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.720 inflation penal of what I would call a penalty, I 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:30.400 guess they would call it. 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:31.640 Others would call it a. 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:36.480 Policy whereby if the price of the drug acceleers faster 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:39.880 than inflation, they get sort of an added discount they 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:42.840 have to rebate to pay a rebate back to Medicaid. 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.280 And so you might say, well, well, if prices are falling, 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:48.760 how would it be rising faster than inflation, Which is 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:52.280 the question I asked. And the explanation is, so if 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.240 you're thinking about a drug that is pennies, you know, 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.080 one penny can look like you know, change can look 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:01.880 like a big change. That's one problem. The other problem 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:05.360 is because of these contract terms that I discussed previously, 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:09.600 the you know, there's these buyers can drop out really quickly, 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:13.280 leaving manufacturers holding the bag. So there's a really brisk 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:17.360 rotation of buyers that come in come out, and that 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:20.679 creates a lot of variability in the prices depending on 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:24.400 the advocause. It's an average price. So when big, big, 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:26.959 big buyers are dropping in and out from quarter to quarter, 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:30.959 you know, there there the price that you're seeing may 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:33.240 made spike and then fall, and then spike and then 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:35.240 fall and if you're sort of penalized by an average, 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:38.080 it doesn't it's not really accurate. So you've got the 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:40.080 structure of these policies that are it was sort of 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:44.200 really designed for a branded drug market that has been 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:48.760 sort of applied, i would say, mistakenly to the generics market. 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.960 Bloomberg Opinion editor Rachel Rosenthal, and coming up, we're going 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:55.120 to take a look at a proposal to legalize marijuana 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:58.440 on the federal level and what that could mean politically 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.840 for the Biden administration. You're listening to Bloomberg Opinion. 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:17.800 You're listening to the Bloomberg Opinion podcast counts Saturdays at 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:20.920 one and seven pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:24.120 iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.280 demand wherever you get your podcasts. 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.000 You're listening to Bloomberg Opinion. I may Mee Morris. President 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:34.040 Biden may be looking to boost his reelection hopes and 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:37.480 his sinking poll numbers. And there's one policy position that 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:41.160 is popular with voters and could help unite Democrats. It 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:45.760 is legalizing recreational use of marijuana. Let's bring in Bloomberg 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:49.679 Opinion columnist Jonathan Bernstein, who covers politics, and Jonathan, you're 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:54.440 talking about in your column recreational marijuana not medicinal, which 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:56.320 kind of surprised me. How could this help? 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:02.080 Legalization right now is a very popular idea. Twenty four 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:07.080 states have now made recreational marijuana legal, and when you 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:09.720 do polls, there was a Gallup poll out this month 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:17.079 and it was around seventy percent support legalizing recreational marijuana. 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:20.280 So it's not a fringe position anymore. For those who 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:22.960 might be in states don't have this and you know, 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:25.640 may not realize, it's no longer a fringe position. It's 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:31.040 a mainstream, popular position. And the truth is that especially 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:35.440 among Democrats, but it's about fifty to fifty among Republicans. 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.120 And the truth is that Joe Biden has been behind 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:40.800 public opinion on this, and I think with good reason. 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:42.880 But I think it's also time now for him to 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:44.440 promptly switch now. 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:46.200 It seems like there would be a risk of some 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:49.680 division on this issue because it has already been handled 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:53.640 by those states that want to legalize it. Why bother 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:55.439 with something that could be this touchy. 0:12:56.400 --> 0:13:02.040 It's seventy percent, so yes, they're thirty percent to oppose it, 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:05.280 but it's a popular position. Generally, you want popular positions. 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:10.000 On top of that, it's popular among Biden's in Biden's 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:14.840 party party, particularly popular among some of the strong Democratic 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.840 groups that he's had some problems with recently, young people, 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:21.840 black people, and those populations. I've been looking for to 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:24.560 have some signature thing that they feel like Biden's doing 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.120 for them because they don't feel like the economy's working 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:31.160 for them at other things. And you know, in politics, 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:35.680 it's always a good idea, you know, everything else aside 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.079 to find something that unites your party and splits the 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:43.120 other party. And that's something that legal marijuana does now. 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:51.160 So you know, up to this point where support was growing, 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:54.080 but it wasn't at this level, my feeling was that 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.800 there's no reason for Biden to get involved because as 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.520 long as public opinion is moving his way, all that 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.920 president involvement tends to do is polarize things. And so 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:07.160 instead of support growing among Republicans, which is what's been happening, 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.920 Republicans would tend to move against it if the president 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:13.880 was for it. But now it's sort of reached that 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:17.600 stage where it sort of doesn't matter anymore. It's so 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:21.200 overwhelmingly popular that it's unlikely. And the other thing that 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.760 I think it has going forward is that because it's 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:27.160 been in so many different states, you can see that 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:32.280 the policy as it rolls out doesn't generate backlash. It doesn't, 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:36.680 you know, people don't regret it. Especially there aren't any 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:39.280 states that have legalized and then said, oh my god, 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.000 this isn't working, we need to go back. Biden has 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:46.680 made some small moves to change it, but he hasn't 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.640 really sort of come out full scale, Yeah, we support this, 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:51.640 and it's probably time. 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:54.440 To do that now. Historically speaking, you compare this in 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.440 your column to the public push that then Vice President 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:01.040 Biden gave President Obama on the issue of me marriage equality. 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:01.960 How was this similar? 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.720 Well as an issue, it sort of had the similar 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:08.320 sense that it used to be very unpopular, it became 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.480 more popular, the president got behind the curve on it, 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:14.600 It became almost universally popular among Democrats and split the 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.360 other party, and then eventually Barack Obama got on board. 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.960 In fact, what I suggested in the column might be 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:25.960 a nice way of doing this is if the vice 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:29.480 president Vice President Harris was to simply answer the question 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.280 what should the administration policy be? Which is what happened 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:38.800 ten years ago to Biden gave a public push to Obama. 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:44.600 And at that point, given the Democratic Party was one 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:48.440 hundred percent favor of matter equality and Obama was way 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:50.680 behind the curve, Obama didn't have much choice but to 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.320 finally accept that that was where things were going, and 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:57.760 he made his own policy change. And so, you know, 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.560 Harris could do that at this point, could do it. 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:03.560 She could you know, say well, yeah, you know, yes, 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:08.280 I think we should legalize. And that might be a 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:12.120 way to push Biden, who would be flip flopping. Politicians 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:14.000 don't like to flip flop. That might be a way 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:15.840 to push him to do it. And it also might 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:18.480 help Harris a little bit to show that she has 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:19.880 some foubt within the administration. 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.720 Well, let's talk about that. The vice president's position on 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.200 marijuana is a complicated one anyway, Remember she has a 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.400 history as a prosecutor judicial reform, that sort of thing. 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.760 Would she be the voice that would come out, you. 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:36.920 Know, presumably she's in favor of Demographically these are Democrats, right, 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.520 So Democratic Party is again something like ninety percent in 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:41.800 favor of it. So my guess is that Harris in 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:47.000 her gut probably supports it, but forget about that. Politically, 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:51.680 if Harris wants to be president, she wants to take 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:55.480 the positions of the Democratic Party, and of course every 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.400 vice president eventually wants to be president. So you know, 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.280 I think that politically it's it's a smart place for 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:05.520 her to be. And you know, if somebody wants to 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.000 throw back to her, throw it back at her that 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.840 while she put people in jail years ago as a prosecutor, 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.280 that's a conversation she's going to have to have at 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:15.720 some point. She had it a little bit when she 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.640 ran for president. If she ever wants to run for president, 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:21.080 for the nomination, she's going to have to go through this. 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:22.719 So why not get ahead of it now? 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:25.960 And we are talking to Bloomberg opinion columnist Jonathan Bernstein, 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:29.080 who says a push to legalize recreational use of marijuana 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.359 that actually helped Democrats win the White House in twenty 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:35.639 twenty four. It also seems, though, Jonathan, that it might 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:37.960 be better to get a coherent message together with the 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:41.400 administration on the strength of the economy. We've been hearing 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:45.200 how the economic numbers are very good, people are spending more, 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:49.040 but consumer sentiment is just rock bottom and there's a 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:55.440 disconnect there. Maybe that should be like, that sounds something safer, right, 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:57.359 that sounds like a safer thing for them to tackle. 0:17:57.960 --> 0:17:58.760 Well, there's no. 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.640 Question that is going to have to push the economy, 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:04.280 and if people do not change their minds about the 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:07.400 economy over the next year, he's in grave danger. Talking 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.960 on marijuana could generate some positives for a few days, 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:14.920 it might linger with some of the groups who care 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.520 about this the most. You know, this is one of 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.240 the great puzzles of US politicians right now, is where 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:24.159 what's the reason for the perception gap and will it 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:25.840 continue going forward? 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.080 And we could talk about that, but. 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:34.359 Yes, that's you know, whether that's a question of presidential 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:39.560 messaging or something about the economy or how things work, 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:42.919 and you know, generally it's a complicated topic. 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.760 Your column lays out a really good argument for the 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:50.320 administration to embrace this policy and move forward on it. 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:54.159 Do you feel like it's not likely to happen and why? 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:57.240 That's a good question. It wouldn't surprise me at all 0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:57.920 if it happens. 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:01.639 I do think that it's something that you know, again, 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:06.000 this isn't a fringe thing anymore. This is Ohio, you know, 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:13.520 and other states that are lean Republican or are swing states. 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:18.440 It's a majority issue, and politicians they don't like flip lobbing. 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:20.920 They do like getting on the side of a popular issue. 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:24.480 So would it surprised me. It would not surprise me 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:27.960 a lot either way, because those are the sort of 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:31.720 two dynamics going going into it. I don't think that 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:37.479 they are afraid of taking a huge backlash, but it is, 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:40.520 you know, with things going on in the world and 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:44.440 with the economy, as you suggest, talking about something that's 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:49.040 not necessarily considered that important might not be where they 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.399 want to spend their time. Again, that's one of the 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:53.080 reasons why I thought it was sort of fun to 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:57.080 think about, Well, what if Harris forces the issue, because 0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:59.800 if it really comes down to having to talk about it, 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:02.400 I don't think that Joe Biden wants to be there, 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:06.200 you know, defending a minority view within the party. 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:08.520 If it becomes something that people are talking about. 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:10.680 All right, Jonathan, we're going to leave it there. Thank 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:11.960 you so much for taking the time. 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:12.800 Thank you. 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:16.720 Jonathan Bernstein is a Bloomberg opinion columnist who covers politics 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:20.280 and coming up is that decongestin not quite working for you. 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:23.600 There's a reason. Don't forget. We're available as a podcast 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:26.920 on Apple, Spotify or your favorite podcast platform. This is 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:27.840 Bloomberg Opinion. 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:41.720 You're listening to the Bloomberg Opinion podcast. Catch us Saturdays 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:44.879 at one and seven pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:48.080 the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:50.360 on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:55.520 This is Bloomberg Opinion. I Amy Morrison. We are deep 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:58.720 into cold and flu season. You've probably already made at 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:00.879 least one trip to the farm to find relief. I 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:04.040 know I have, But buyer beware. Over the counter oral 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:07.800 decongestants are not all they're said to be. Bloomberg Opinion 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:10.639 columnist Faith Lamb cover Science and his host of the 0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:14.520 Follow the Science podcast and joins us. Now let's start 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:19.040 fae with PE. We've seen those two letters on pharmacy shelves, 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:22.640 on different boxes and containers for quite a while. What 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:23.280 is PE. 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:30.359 It's something called phenol epron, and it's actually the dominant 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:37.880 drug for decongestants. It's the dominant ingredient and it came 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:41.760 to be dominant after several others were removed from the 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:44.520 market for different reasons once it actually worked pretty well. 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:49.120 The phenol epron has been in the news recently because 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:53.760 a couple of pharmacists did a deep investigation and found 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:57.200 that it really does not work. 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:00.240 And so they've all been pulled. Is that right? 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:05.520 They are working on that, I see, But at least 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:10.240 we it's been made public now that these drugs don't work. 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:14.680 The thing that I think was particularly deceptive is that 0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:19.040 there's a there's a drug called sudafed pe, and there 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:23.720 was a sudafed actually did work really well, and then 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:26.480 it was taken off the market because if you remember 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:29.760 the series Breaking Bad, people were using it to make 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:34.560 crystal meth, and so it got it got actually got 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:37.679 taken off the shelves. But it is available if you 0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:39.920 go to the pharmacist and ask for it. It's just 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:43.560 hidden away so that it would be harder for the 0:22:44.119 --> 0:22:48.520 drug the illegal meth cooks to get it. But then 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:52.919 this suit of fed pe is actually a completely different drug. 0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:56.359 It's not the same thing at all, and in fact 0:22:56.440 --> 0:22:58.880 it it doesn't seem to work. 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:02.360 See. Okay, I'm glad you explained that. Because I take 0:23:02.760 --> 0:23:07.800 zertech and sometimes Zirtec d D being a decongestant. I assumed, 0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:11.159 and this is on me, that sudo fed pe was 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:14.040 just like an additive to classic sudo fed. What you're 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:15.879 saying is it's not even sudafed. 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:18.879 No, it's a completely different thing. If you want the 0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:22.040