WEBVTT - Court Fights Over School Mask Mandates 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.920 This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:12.760 A dozen states now requires students in kindergarten to twelfth 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:17.040 grade to wear masks, while another handful bar such mandates 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:21.160 as a school year begins amid a surge of coronavirus cases. 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:24.840 Litigation is underway and at least five states over masked 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:30.200 mandates in schools. Joining me is Bloomberg Legal reporter Eric Larson. So, 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:33.360 Eric tell us about the flurry of lawsuits there here 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:38.400 fights the underway in Florida and Texas and Oklahoma, And 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:41.880 I think it's the cases in Florida are really illustrative 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.960 as well of what's going on here. There's parents, groups 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:48.000 of parents who are concerned about their children catching the 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:51.000 delta variance of the coronavirus. Has food in both state 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:55.040 court and federal court saying that the governor's ban on 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:58.840 mass mandates and schools violates the state constitution in the 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:00.880 state case, and then the federal case say that it 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:05.240 violates the Americans with Disabilities Act by putting children at risk. 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:08.399 So it's still necessarily early on in the federal case, 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:12.399 but the state case, the judge denying the governor the 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:16.080 Santus's motion to dismiss on Thursday. So and now there 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:18.520 was a hearing today. What happened at the hearing, So 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:21.479 the hearing is still underway. Um, it's going to end 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:24.720 on Wednesday, and it's the hearing on the parents motion 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:28.679 for an injunction against Governor de Santus's ban on mass 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:32.000 mandates in school So if the parents win this injunction, 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:35.440 then all of the sixty seven or so fool boards 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.080 in Florida will be able to have mass mandates if 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.040 they wish, without fear of punishment from the state, which 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:43.479 right now the governor has said that he will punish 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:45.839 these school districts if they try to impose a mass 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.760 mandate that does not have an opt out which would 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:51.720 allow parents to opt out for any reason. And of course, 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.639 health experts are saying that if you have a mass mandate, 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:57.960 it isn't absolutely mandatory, it just isn't as effective. So 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:01.320 there's testimony take it. Who's test of Well, there are 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:04.639 health experts and parents on both sides of the issue 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:08.120 who are testifying today and tomorrow and through into Wednesday, 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:11.960 and they have an opening statement from both sides this morning. 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:15.080 The parents said that they would be presenting evidence that 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.680 would show that this delta variant in particular is so 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:21.400 contagious and it infects children in a way the earlier 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.920 variant patent, that there's a particular concern about it in 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:28.040 a particular need for faith mass in schools as schools 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:30.960 are reopening, and they will also hear from parents who 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:34.080 just simply say that it is reckless that the State 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:37.760 of Florida is putting their children at risk by essentially 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:41.359 exposing them to this virus. You know in these quotes classrooms, 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:44.600 private classrooms, or kids you know are very easily able 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:46.640 to spread this virus around and take it back to 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:49.720 their family and friends. So the state has said that 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:52.200 they will also be presenting health experts. They're going to 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:54.760 present evidence that they say will show faith masks are 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:58.800 actually detrimental to kids. They focused on the mental health aspects, 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:02.080 thing that covering the smiles and laughter of children was 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.840 actually bad for their mental health and to cause anxiety 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:07.760 and depression, and that it would affect bonding between the 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:11.960 students and the teacher. They will also be presenting parents 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:14.560 saying that they're thankful that they have this final say 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.120 on whether or not the children cover their faces and schools. 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:20.160 So the health experts on the governor's side, do you 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:22.119 know if any of them are going to say that 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:27.320 masks don't help to stop people from getting Actually, actually, yes, 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:29.680 this is obviously going to be a real point of 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.799 contention in in the hearing um. We haven't gotten there yet, 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.280 but in the opening statement, the governor's lawyer did say 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:38.000 that they would be presenting evidence showing that in the 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.880 last school year, the counties in Florida that had mass 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:44.960 mandates versus those that didn't had almost no difference in 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:48.720 the number, you know, the percentage of children who contracted COVID, 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:51.400 And I think it's pretty clear that the parents side 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.640 is going to argue that that's it is outdated. You 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.880 know that the delta variants started spreading around earlier this year, 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:00.520 and that it just isn't going to show the whole 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:04.520 picture without taking delta into a full account. I take 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:07.960 it that whatever side loses is going to appeal this right, 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:10.360 and it looks like we'll be getting the state case 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:13.120 is going to be moving on quite a bit faster here. 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:16.200 It's on a faster track. The subtle case is still 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.440 being briefed, and there hasn't been any types of big 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:22.080 hearings or trials like we're having now in the state case. 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:24.400 But you can be sure that there will be appeals 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.840 of regardless of what the decision is and what's happening 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:31.560 in Texas. What is the Texas Supreme Court done? I 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:34.200 think on the one hand, the Texas Supreme Court had 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:39.039 ruled that Governor Abbott could ban mask mandates, but on 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:42.039 the other hand, in the school lawsuit just said that 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:44.760 he had to go through the usual appellate procedure and 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:47.240 couldn't jump straight to the Texas Supreme Court. That was 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:49.680 the ruling I think last week, or it wasn't exactly 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:51.760 a ruling on the merit saying that he couldn't do 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:54.320 a ban on mask mandates, just that he had to 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:57.440 go through it a different way to defend it. Even 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:01.440 though he is in quarantine because he got COVID despite 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:07.440 being vaccinated, he's going through with those fights against mass mandates. Absolutely, 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:11.040 He's on the same page as Governor Stantus in Florida. 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:14.839 You know, they both agree that yes, the virus is dangerous, 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.480 yes it's spreading around, but at the end of the day, 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:19.800 they believe that parents just have to have the last 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.760 word on whether or not their children were face masks 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.680 to school. That it's a matter of parents rights on 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.160 healthcare matters, and I can tell you in the Florida case, 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:31.760 that specific issue is addressed earlier in the hearing last week, 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:34.120 where the parents said that you know, this is just 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:36.719 like any other vaccine. That compared it to kids having 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:39.040 to take vaccines to go to public schools. So that's 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:42.159 a serious matter of health for children, and that parents 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:44.520 of public school children don't have any choice in that matter. 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:47.360 The judge even pointed out before he issued his ruling 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.560 that having a stupid cloths over your mouth would seem 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:52.440 to be a lot less of a health issue than 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.680 injecting a vaccine into your children. So he seemed to 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.920 already be questioning the idea that a face masks with 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.240 such a serious health matter that parents had to have 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:03.680 the last word. But that wasn't his final word on 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:05.640 the matter. He will as you were ruling on Wednesday, 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:08.240 but he already seemed a little bit skeptical about that. 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:13.800 Thanks Eric. That's Bloomberg Legal reporter Eric Larson. Supreme Court 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:16.760 Justice Samuel Alito has put a hold on a Circuit 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:20.760 Court ruling that would force the Biden administration to reinstate 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:25.240 a Trump administration policy requiring asylum seekers at the southern 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.560 border to wait in Mexico for their cases to be processed, 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:32.760 a policy that has been dormant for more than a year. Alito, 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:36.160 who handles emergency matters from Texas, said he was issuing 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.159 the stay until Tuesday night so that the full court 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:43.039 can consider the application. My guest is Leon Fresco, a 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:46.640 partner at Hollandon Knight. So Leon start by telling us 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:52.640 about the Migrant Protection Protocols, better known as Remain in Mexico. Well, 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:58.520 in December, the Trump administration implemented this program, called the 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:02.960 Migration Protection pro to call MPP Remain in Mexico. What 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.320 it would do is it would authorize the CDP, the 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:10.680 Customs and Border Protection to return people who were not 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:15.360 from Mexico, so they were third country nationals, meaning people 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:19.400 from either Central America or somewhere else to Mexico for 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:22.760 the duration of their removal proceedings. So what would happen is, 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:27.400 even if you were found to have a credible fear 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:31.400 of persecution, you would not be led into the United States. 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:36.040 You would be placed into Mexico and then told Okay, well, 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:40.200 on this day, your appointment is for your immigration case. 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.360 We're gonna pick you up and bring you across. So 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:47.280 let's say the San Diego immigration courts or the Brownsville 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:50.640 immigration courts, and we will do your hearing then. But 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:53.480 during this whole time that you're waiting for your hearing, 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:56.360 you wouldn't be waiting in the United States. You'd be 0:07:56.440 --> 0:08:01.360 waiting in Mexico for the hearing. Biden came into office 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:06.120 and rescinded the policy. Texas and Missouri sued to challenge 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:11.000 Biden's recision. What did the district court judge rule and 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.679 what did the appellate court rule? These cases were brought 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:18.480 in the district court first in the Northern District of Texas, 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:21.440 and then it went to the Fifth Circuits, which is 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:25.560 the court of Appeals that governs Texas, and what the 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:29.239 court's ruled in both of those occasions was that under 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:34.560 the Administrative Procedure Act, the recision of the Trump administration 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:41.120 Remain in Mexico memo was arbitrary and capricious, meaning that 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:47.080 the reasons that they gave for rescinding the memorandum weren't 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:51.040 in accordance with the actual facts on the ground, so 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:54.079 to speak. And so from that perspective, what they were 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:58.280 basically trying to say was that how could, for instance, 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:02.640 the Biden administration say that they don't have the resources 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:06.600 to detain people when they're not detaining anybody. That that's 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.880 not true. You know, they have the resources to detain people, 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:13.760 and then when those resources are filled, then it would 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:17.000 make more sense to keep people in Mexico than to 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:19.320 have them come into the United States. So that was 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:23.600 the first thing. Then second that if the DHS had 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:28.640 previously said that the Migration Protection Protocol contributed to decreasing 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.240 the number of people coming into the United States, why 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.400 would they now say that that's not true? Also the 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:39.880 same thing about if the termination hadn't led to the 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.600 border surge, why is there a border Third, so they 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:46.439 kind of flipped every single thing that the administration had 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:51.400 given with regard to the facts of the reasons why 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.040 it was rescinding the program and saying that none of 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.840 those reasons we're matching the reasons you were seeing on 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:01.520 the ground. Isn't it true that the program was dormant 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:06.280 even under the Trump administration in the later years, Well, right, 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.720 It was very rarely used. They was used, no doubt, 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:13.360 but it was very rarely used because it actually is 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:18.760 even that program a resource intensive program in terms of 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:20.960 having to track people and if you're gonna do it 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:22.880 actually the right way. And there was a lot of 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:26.520 lawsuits on this policy that hadn't really been settled. You know, 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:28.880 they were working their way through the courts. You need 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.000 to figure out a way to track people, give them 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:34.120 an opportunity to find counsel, all kinds of things that 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:38.000 aren't necessarily happening when someone's in Mexico. You know, they 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:41.199 have a lot of barriers finding the government again when 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:43.960 it's time for their hearing. And so a lot of 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:47.280 people had just missed their hearing. And those people were 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:50.320 waiting in Mexico still for their hearing and they just 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:53.080 missed it because they didn't have access to all of 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.720 the resources they needed to actually attend their hearing. So 0:10:56.840 --> 0:11:00.560 that was one, but then two, when the remain in 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:04.600 Mexico policy had actually been put into effect, that was 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.599 still sort of in a piloted manner. It was the 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:12.360 end of and once we got to then COVID happened 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.600 and they just switched to Title forty two, which is 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:19.920 just they'd even bother processing anybody in the United States 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:23.240 and returning them into Mexico. They just at that point 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:27.200 just excluded everybody. And so that was the main reason 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.880 that Remain in Mexico program kind of went away, was 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:34.079 because remain in Mexico requires you to process someone in 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:38.280 the United States and then return them to Mexico. And 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:40.760 what was happening after COVID was no one was getting 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:43.800 processed in the United States. They were just being immediately 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:48.160 pushed back into Mexico the second they were encountered. Since 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:53.520 the president has authority over immigration policy, how can states 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:57.440 or district court judge till the president what he can 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:01.559 or can't do. Well, So this is what super complicated about, 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.679 not just this case. There's another case headed right up 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:09.560 the same highway where a district judge has basically decided 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:14.080 to appoint himself director of ICE for all intents and purposes, 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:17.640 where he issued about a hundred page opinion saying if 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:22.959 ICE is going to have prosecutorial discretion against any individual 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:25.240 that it has encountered, it needs to tell the court 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:28.160 and explained to the court why it won't actually move 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:31.520 forward with that person removal proceedings, which is quite an 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:35.920 intrusive order, something that goes against what had been the 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:39.200 decisions of the Supreme Court in the past about the 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:42.720 federal government having the ability to determine who it does 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:46.360 and doesn't place into removal proceedings and who it does 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:48.839 and doesn't remove. At the end of the day, there's 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:52.080 a lot of Supreme Court case law on that issue. 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.920 So I think that second case probably gets overturned by 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:59.480 the Supreme Court. The wrinkle here when the Supreme Court 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:03.360 looks at it is this is still a memo. And 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:05.640 so there was a memo putting in the remain in 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:09.840 Mexico program, and there was a memo rescinding the Remain 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:14.040 in Mexico program. And so just like DOCCA was the 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:18.160 same concept where people said, hey, can't DOCA just be 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:20.719 put in and taken out and the courts can't look 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.839 at any of this. The courts decided they could look 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.559 at the memo rescinding DOCCA and say that the memo 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:31.839 did not have sufficient justification. And so this is essentially 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:36.800 exactly what's happening here is potentially the Supreme Court could 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.280 get five votes, I'd imagine, will wait and see on 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:46.480 whether this memo resending MPP had sufficient justification. The court 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:50.960 affirmed the district court judges ruling. There was a thirty 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:56.679 four page opinion, not affirming necessarily on the merits, but 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:00.319 denying the stay. And so when you deny the stay, 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:02.640 you do take a look at the merits. And the 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:06.040 court thought that there was no factors that warranted a 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:11.240 stay here because there was a likelihood that the government 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:15.080 will succeed in the case. Because they went through all 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:18.120 of those factors that the District Court went through and 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:21.480 there was a unanimous three zero decision. They went through 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:24.200 all of those factors and agreed with the District Court 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:30.160 that the government doesn't have sufficient detension resources. It's a 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:32.280 question about the stats, but they you know, if you 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.920 do look at the stats because of COVID, whether you 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:39.840 attributed to COVID or not, the numbers were less in 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:42.920 and so it's kind of a hard thing because then 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:46.440 they say, well, in remain in Mexico was in effect 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:48.880 and there was no crossings. You took it out and 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:50.920 the crossings went up. Well, there's a lot of things 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.200 that changed because of COVID, but they use that against it. 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.840 They found that the termination then of the MPP led 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:02.040 to the surge they found to increase people being entering 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.240 into the United States and school age children going into 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.040 school and all of that stuff, and so all of 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:12.320 these things went together to say that the purpose of 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:16.480 the memo, which said that remain in Mexico didn't actually 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:22.200 reduce unauthorized immigration, turns out to have been not true. 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:25.520 So that's basically what they're resting their laurels on both 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:28.200 the District Court and the Court of Appeals. So now 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:33.920 Justice Samuel Alito grants the government a stay until Tuesday, 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:37.200 is it yes? So what the order of the Supreme 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:41.840 Court says is at eleven fifty nine pm Tuesday night. 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:45.520 So basically maybe Wednesday morning, you can say the full 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:49.720 court will consider the application, but the responses do from 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.920 the Texas and Missouri side five pm on Tuesday, and 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:56.800 so then the decision, I guess will be made at 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:59.400 eleven fifty nine, And so the question is will there 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:03.320 be I votes? I think the most interesting part of 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:07.040 this case to me is the foreign policy aspect of 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:11.280 this case, which is this is not just about the 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:15.000 US and a memo at a policy about immigration enforcement. 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:20.520 Remain in Mexico actually requires Mexico to cooperate. And so 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:24.320 this is I think the issue that the courts on 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:26.920 the lower end did not really take it to account, 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:31.240 which is that Mexico says it's not going to cooperate 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:35.240 with remain in Mexico anymore. And so that's something that 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.120 the Biden administration is siting, saying, well, what are we 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:44.280 supposed to do with this injunction in Mexico doesn't cooperate anymore, 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.560 to which the only answer really that the lower courts 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.080 have is, well, Trump found the way to make them cooperate. 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:55.240 So you're just accepting that they won't cooperate without actually trying, 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:57.480 do you have a burden to at least try to 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:01.280 get them to cooperate? And so I think this is 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:05.160 the most fascinating part of this case. Will the Supreme 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:10.320 Court force the US government to try to force Mexico 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:14.000 into accepting romaine in Mexico? Again? I mean that seems 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:17.400 to me outside the bounds of what courts usually try 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:20.919 to do with regard to intervening in foreign policy. But 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:25.439 we'll see. How would courts possibly monitor what the Biden 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:30.080 administration is doing with Mexico? How would they possibly monitor 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:33.200 how much pressure they're putting on Mexico. It seems almost 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:37.280 ridiculous to try to force the Biden administration to restart 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:42.160 a program that has been dormant for more than a year. Well, 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.120 I think the only thing a court could do if 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.600 the federal government came back and said, Mexico refuses to 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.560 do m p P again, because here's the thing. Mexico 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:55.439 has verdens to take back Mexican nationals, but they have 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:59.000 no legal obligation to take back a non Mexican national 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:02.399 into Mexico, and so they refused to do it. The 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:05.320 only thing a court could do, I suppose, is to 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:09.719 just put in contempt government officials that they feel aren't 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.359 trying hard enough. And I mean, is that really? Is 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:15.639 a court prepared to do that? Actually start finding and 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:19.080 throwing US government officials in jail who they feel have 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:24.960 unsuccessfully persuaded Mexico to take back non Mexican nationals into Mexico. 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:29.520 That's what has to happen. And so it seems wow 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:32.280 like that would be a very difficult bridge to cross. 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:37.640 Ere So can we read anything from Justice Alito issuing 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:43.159 this stay? I think when the Solicitor General asks for 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:48.720 a stay of a immigration program that is always taken 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.720 very seriously by the Supreme Court, and you'll always get 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:55.960 a chance for nine justices to weigh in before a 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:59.359 policy goes into effect where the federal government is telling 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.119 you that they on it to be stayed. So I 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:05.480 don't read too much into that yet, especially because I 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:10.080 think Alito will probably side with the Fifth Circuit. But 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:14.440 the question is will there be five justices who will 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.600 actually figure out a way to side with the federal 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:20.440 government here? And I mean, I don't know. It will 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.320 be very interesting to see what gets cobbled together in 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.600 terms of a coalition if there are five. Obviously Justice 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:30.880 Roberts would join, but I don't know between Gorsege, Coney, Barrett, 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:35.040 and Kavanaugh, which of those three would join. They would 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:37.399 be very interesting to see which, if any of those 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:40.960 three would join. What do you think Roberts would join? Well, no, 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:44.800 I'm saying if there's five that end up staying this decision, 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:47.840 I would find it very hard for that five not 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.960 to include Justice Roberts because Justice Roberts, at least on 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.800 his part, has a track record signing onto the Arizona 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:59.880 Versus United States decision, which talks about the federal government 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:04.560 having discretion over who it the ports, who it doesn't 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:07.719 the pore when it does, etcetera. And so he's at 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.800 least signed onto that. So he would definitely have to 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:12.960 be one of the five if there are gonna be five, 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:15.199 because if they lose him, there are not gonna be 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:20.399 five votes. Then for paying this decision, Leon remind us 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:25.520 about that case. In the Arizona versus US case, Arizona 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.399 had a law that basically they wanted to have state 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:32.679 law enforcement of immigration. Roberts ruled in favor of the 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:37.080 Obama administration and said that the Obama administration. He signed 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:40.000 on to a decision from Justice Kennedy that said that 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:43.480 the Obama administration had the authority to decide who who 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:45.840 to the port and who not to the port, went 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.480 to deport them and went not to deport them, etcetera, etcetera. 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:52.439 So that's in that decision. So my point being, I 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:55.560 find it very hard to figure a scenario where just 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:59.280 as Roberts ruled in favor of keeping the program, and 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:02.959 yet there are two other conservative justices who have then 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:05.960 uphold the stay. I I don't see that happening. How 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:09.720 are the numbers at the border. Well, the numbers at 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:12.440 the border, this is the problem, are the highest they've 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:16.000 been in the last twenty years. Uh. When July ended, 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:20.320 we were talking about over two hundred thousand apprehensions. Now, again, 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:23.639 the problem with statistics is you can start parsing them 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:27.080 however you want. And so some people say, well, the 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.440 reason there are so many apprehensions is because this kind 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:33.600 of forty two is still in effect, which permits the 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:38.919 Biden administration to push people immediately back into Mexico the 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:43.160 second that they're apprehended. So what that creates is multiple 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:47.280 crossings by one human being. And so you know, people 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:50.480 are having that debate how many of these are multiple crossings, 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:55.080 how many of these are unique crossings, But in any case, 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:59.919 there certainly is a high number of people crossing the border, 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:03.480 so much so that the Biden administration is fighting in 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:07.320 court for its ability to continue using the title forty 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:10.879 two authority, saying that the conditions are so difficult on 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:13.320 the border that they need to be able to continue 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:17.320 using it. Thanks Leon, that's Leon Fresco of hollanden Knight. 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:22.160 The U. S Military report its biggest day of evacuation 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:25.880 flights out of Afghanistan but the deadly violence that's blocked 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:30.600 many desperate evacuees from entering Kabul's airport persists, and the 0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:34.160 Taliban has warned of consequences if the U S delays 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:38.760 withdrawing all troops from Afghanistan passed the August thirty one deadline. 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:43.440 A group that includes veterans who served in Afghanistan has 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:47.400 started a fundraising effort to support the evacuation of Afghans 0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:50.200 from a medical clinic that's been threatened by the Taliban, 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:54.040 launching a go fund Me page for Operation We Care 0:22:54.240 --> 0:22:58.280 Global Afghan Evacuation. One of those leading the effort is 0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:01.520 Atturning Mario tel a Rico, a partner at Honigman, and 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:04.439 he joins me now, so tell us what's happened and 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:07.879 why you started this fundraising campaign. Thank you for the 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:10.800 opportunity to talk about this. This is very important to 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:13.840 myself as well as my family, So my family members, 0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:17.919 in particular my aunt Annatlarrico, who is a veteran, opened 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:23.480 a clinic in Afghanistan in Kabul just over nine years ago. 0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:26.200 A history of being in the country as a medic 0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:28.760 and a medical officer. As she retired as a major 0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:32.840 in the Army, but she saw the need for continued 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:36.119 growth in the medical services in Afghanistan and is a 0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:40.000 kind hearted person and dedicated to helping others. Founded this 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:42.959 clinic along with help from other members of my family 0:23:43.280 --> 0:23:45.720 as well as other individuals. But we got word on 0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:49.760 Sunday when the Taliban entered the capital that a group 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:53.359 of men had entered the clinic looking for information. This 0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:56.320 was coming from staff members of the clinic who sent 0:23:56.440 --> 0:24:00.560 us images as well as messages describing what was happening 0:24:00.560 --> 0:24:03.639