1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 3 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Uh, let's hear it for our 4 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 1: dear leader himself, mister Max Williams. 5 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 2: Is there any like good North Korean chants? 6 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Actually we'll play one in a second. 7 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: I'm bed bully that ish. Noel Brown returned from some journeys. Noel, 8 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: to the degree that you're comfortable, can you share with 9 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: our our fellow listeners, Uh, your your soujeans abroad? 10 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 2: Yes. 11 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 3: I returned to my homeland, the fatherland, deutsch Land. I 12 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 3: wandered the black forests hunting for elk with my later 13 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 3: Hozen and my tiny bow and arrow. No, I don't 14 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 3: know about that. You know, it's crazy, man. I was 15 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 3: around Lake Constance, which is referred to in Germany as Bowden's, 16 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 3: a lovely little seaside kind of town, lakeside town. And 17 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 3: to get there, I went through Munich, and I actually 18 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 3: stayed in Munich the night before I flew out. In 19 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 3: that very day there was a bombing at Octoberfest, and 20 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 3: I just narrowly missed that. It was right down the 21 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 3: street from my hotel. Man, so no one is safe, 22 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 3: even the revelers at Octoberfest. You know, it's just man 23 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 3: not to start off with a bummer. 24 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 2: But that that did. 25 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 3: Kind of make me feel a little bit, you know, 26 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 3: hashtag blest, I guess, but. 27 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: I mean, of course, I'm I'm so happy you're safe, bro. 28 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: I also, on a positive note, want to thank you 29 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: again in person on air for sending me a picture 30 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: of a dirigible. You actually inspired a conversation I had 31 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: on the Daily Zeitgeist recently, friends of the show all 32 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: about airships. It just made by day, so thank you. 33 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,399 Speaker 2: I didn't make it, but I didn't really know why. 34 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 3: There were so many zeppelins everywhere, not just advertising, but 35 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 3: it just seemed like it was very much a feature 36 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 3: of the area. And in the little town that I 37 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 3: stayed near the lake called Meersburg, they have a zeppelin museum. 38 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 3: And I know you will give a wag a finger 39 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 3: at me for not making it, Man, but I couldn't 40 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 3: make it work. But next time. It's a lovely area, 41 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 3: by the way, if anyone ever is looking to see 42 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 3: what you know, And the most idyllic of German burghs 43 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 3: looks like I look no further than Meersburg or the 44 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 3: Lake Constance area. 45 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:02,399 Speaker 1: And no wagging the thing. I don't find that constructive, 46 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: but I do you know me well, I do love 47 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: a specific medium. And one of the weirdest ones I've 48 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: ever seen, dude, was on the border of the Korean 49 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: Peninsula on the thirty eighth parallel. 50 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 3: If you by. 51 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 1: I always trying to bring you little gifts when when 52 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: I'm traveling. Folks, if you ever have the chance to 53 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: visit the Korean Peninsula, do so. The food is amazing. 54 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: We're huge fans of Korean food on this show. The 55 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: people are lovely, the technology is fascinating, and the culture 56 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: is rich and astonishing. But one caveat, as we know 57 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: you're probably if you're from the United States especially, you 58 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: probably want to stick to the south side of the peninsula. 59 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would think. 60 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: So. 61 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 3: It's not it's not exactly a tourist destination yet, but 62 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 3: you can't hang out in kind of the no. 63 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 2: Man's land, which we're going to get to a little 64 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: bit later. 65 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 3: And there's some very interesting, let's just call it lightly 66 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 3: if not heavily propagandistic attractions there. 67 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, So for almost the century for 68 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: Nyon eighty years. The historical region of Korea, the peninsula 69 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: there in East Asia, has been split in twain. The 70 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: southern half is the Republic of Korea, which we in 71 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: the West just call Korea. The northern half, however, is 72 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 1: the Democratic People's Republic of Korea aka the Hermit Nation, 73 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: or to most folks again in the West, just North Korea. 74 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 3: You know, I've always wondered why they call it the 75 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 3: Hermit Nation, but I guess it's just specifically referring to 76 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 3: like they don't get out much. 77 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: No, no, it's it's illegal for them to do so. 78 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: Now yeah, now we asked, know you earlier asked at 79 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: the top for a sound que maybe a little bit 80 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: of ao audio cinema here. So what what about this? 81 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: Why don't we play just a brief clip of the 82 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: biggest party in town in North Korea over there in 83 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: their capital, yeong Yang. It's called the Mass Games. The 84 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: are a wrong mass games, And I'd love to play 85 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: this for you and hear your reactions. This is yeah, okay, cool, 86 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: This is for context. This is a mass exhibition of 87 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: children doing gymnastics. So you see that animation in the 88 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: back there, So cool. Yeah, that's all human made. By 89 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: the way those are. That's literally thousands of people, and 90 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: they have these color coded cards that they use to 91 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: create that image of a It looks like a kid 92 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: dreaming while they're holding a pencil leaning over a textbook. 93 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 2: What do you think he's dreaming of Ben, He's dreaming happy. 94 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: He's dreaming of the Eternal Leader. 95 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, he's off screen. 96 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: He's off screen for sure. 97 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 2: Always. 98 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: So as as as you know, well, noul Lo, these 99 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: many years, North Korea, the DPRK has mystified the rest 100 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: of the world because it is a very strange place. 101 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: We talked about this a little bit on our sister 102 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: show Stuff. They don't want you to know. Today's episode, 103 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: today's question. How did it come to be? Let I mean, 104 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: let's find out, because DPRK is kind of a new 105 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: kid on the block. 106 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. 107 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 3: It is an ancient land Korea as a whole, But 108 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 3: the history of the DPRK is relatively recent, like you mentioned, 109 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 3: beginning at the close of World War Two. There in 110 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 3: nineteen forty five, when Japan went ahead and surrendered to 111 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 3: the Allies, the Korean Peninsula was split in twain down 112 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 3: the thirty eighth parallel between Earth's biggest modern frenemies, the USSR, China, 113 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 3: and the United States of America. With the Nazis on 114 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 3: the outs, or at least on their way to the outs, 115 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 3: the Soviets and the Americans were looking towards a new 116 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 3: goal of expanding their conflicting ideologies across the world. The 117 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 3: Soviets and communist China on the north side of the 118 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 3: parallel saw the new territory as both a buffer against 119 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 3: the encroaching Americans and an opportunity to demonstrate the massive 120 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 3: advantages of the great Communist Dream. Then that I was 121 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 3: in Germany as I'm working on a series that is 122 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 3: centered around the Cold War and the Berlin Wall and 123 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 3: a lot of trafficking of humans from the east side 124 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 3: of the wall, the Communist side, to the west side 125 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 3: of the wall. 126 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 2: And it's a very similar split here in terms. 127 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 3: Of like, the Communists got all that stuff on that 128 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 3: one side, and the Americans more or less were, you know, 129 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 3: in support of the stuff on the other side, and 130 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 3: never the twain shall meet, And all of these conflicts 131 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 3: that you might not think immediately would be an issue 132 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 3: became a total issue, which led to this shutting down 133 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 3: of the border less people on the Communist side, you know, 134 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 3: feel left out or something or like felt like I 135 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 3: feel as though there was stuff going on the other 136 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 3: side of the wall that did not include them. And 137 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 3: this isolationist mentality really took over to the point where, 138 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 3: very similarly to the divide between North and South Korea, 139 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,079 Speaker 3: utterly illegal to travel from one side of the Berlin 140 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 3: Wall to the other on pain of death. And which 141 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 3: is why a lot of very crafty folks got into 142 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 3: the business, some for profit, some for the idea the 143 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 3: right things, ideological reasons of moving people across that divide. 144 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 145 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: No, I was thinking of you recently as as I 146 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: was revisiting my old state department days with the with 147 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: the idea of this division, because history is a palimpsest, folks, 148 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: if you go to uh, if you go to Berlin now, 149 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: you can still see the legacy of the divide of 150 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: the wall. East Germany in particular tends to have lower 151 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: economic performance. A lot of the stats you would imagine 152 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: about demographics still carry with them the burden, the albatross 153 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 1: of that great divide. And look, when, as you were saying, 154 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: when the when the Allied forces and the communist forces 155 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: are diving up this peninsula. They know from the jump 156 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: this is an unsustainable situation. These two occupying they're not 157 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: really countries, these two occupying powers or gangs. 158 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, right, supporters, I guess I'm sort of like, these 159 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 3: are our guys and these are our guys. 160 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, very much a vassal state situation, these two places, 161 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: these two great powers, cannot agree on the best way 162 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: to reunify the peninsula. Korea has historically considered itself one thing, 163 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: one people, quite homogeneous, so by nineteen forty eight, as 164 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: a result of these disagreements and negotiations, the two great powers, 165 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: the communists and the capitalists, set up two separate governments. 166 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: And the pickle of it is the badger in the bag, 167 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: is that each of these governments on the same peninsula 168 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: claimed that they had of renedy over the entire area. 169 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: So stuff was real awkward from nineteen forty eight to 170 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty when the conflict went hot and kinetic, what 171 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: we call the Korean War broke out, and it was 172 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: a beat me here, Max, please. It was a shit show. 173 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 2: It was, and it had some interesting alternate names. 174 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 3: I guess, depending on where you stood some of these 175 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 3: I was not aware of. I would tell us a 176 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 3: little bit about some of these and kind of what 177 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 3: the uh, I don't know a little the stank on 178 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 3: each of them might be. 179 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of like. 180 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: How in the US you call it the Vietnam War, 181 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 1: but in Vietnam it has a different name. In the 182 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: United States, you called this conflict in nineteen fifty to 183 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three, you call it the Korean War, sometimes 184 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: the Forgotten War, the DPRK. The North Korean government calls 185 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: it the Fatherland Liberation War because of their mind, you know, 186 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 1: it's the righteous, holy thing to do. 187 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 2: There lies the stank, right. 188 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 3: Everyone's putting their own little spin on it, depending on 189 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 3: which side of the divide you fall. 190 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, in South Korea and the ROK it's called the 191 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: six two five after the day it started. And China's 192 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: name for it, which I think is our mutual favorite, 193 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: is the War to resist US aggression and age Korea. 194 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 2: The stankiest of them all. 195 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, they put some spin on it, for sure, But 196 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: the issue is we're talking about this war. In the past, 197 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: tense conflict raged back and forth. It looked for a 198 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: time to be anyone's game. This war has not ended. 199 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: As you are hearing this episode, we're recording it on Thursday, 200 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: October two, twenty twenty five, while the Korean War continues. 201 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 1: It's there's no official peace treaty. Neither side has surrendered 202 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: nor seems likely to. It's a temporary cease fire. So 203 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:02,079 Speaker 1: these folks have been on time, came out for decades 204 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:03,239 Speaker 1: and decades. 205 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a cold war very much. So, yeah, I 206 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 3: mean it's it's there's so many parallels between this situation 207 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 3: and what happened there in Berlin and the idea of 208 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 3: a cold war being that sort of like technically were 209 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 3: on pause. But life goes on and tensions do tend 210 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 3: to simmer. 211 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: Do you remember that? You know? I'm in love with 212 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: eighties and nineties sitcom themes, not the actual strangers, just 213 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: as the There's One, there. 214 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 3: Was a goal to done were described the plot of 215 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 3: the damn exactly. 216 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: Shout out to the nanny, right, uh, mister Belvigere, Yeah, 217 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: mister bell oh Man, first time I skipped Fresh Prince. 218 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: Of course, have fresh friends put some respect on the 219 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: name as much. 220 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. 221 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: The the one thing that I'm remembering immediately I rediscovered 222 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: a sleeper hit called Dear John. 223 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 2: Did you ever hear John? 224 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: I will send you the theme. 225 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 2: The theme has been a massive sleeper hit like. 226 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: Ozamandius. It was a big deal in its day. It's 227 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: all about a guy who has a acrimonious breakup with 228 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: his partner. She leaves him, and she leaves a letter, 229 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: a Dear John letter. And that letter is it's a 230 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: breakup letter. Yeah, okay, and it's a so it's uh. 231 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: The entire show is about this guy named in a 232 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: burst of creativity John and his buddies he meets in 233 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: therapy and the high jinks they get into. 234 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 2: Got it So a bit of a sad sack kind 235 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 2: of kind of character. 236 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: Sweet Little Ted lasso to it. But do check out 237 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: the theme song for Dear John. I'll send it to 238 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: you guys after this recording you fight on YouTube. The 239 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: Korean Warp is not from taxi. Yeah yeah. The Korean 240 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: Warp is also an acrimony stalemate. The thirty eighth Parallel 241 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: becomes the Demilitarized Zone. We call it the DMZ for short, 242 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: and it remains one of the most dangerous, fascinating areas 243 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: on the planet today. China also remains an official ally 244 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: of North Korea, so much so that when people try 245 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: to escape North Korea and make it to a third 246 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: party embassy in China, China will capture them. They don't 247 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: consider them political refugees, they consider them illegal economic migrants, 248 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: and they turn them back into North Korea. 249 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 2: Yike. Sort of a bit of an understanding, I suppose. 250 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, really terrible one too, because horrific things happen 251 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: to defectors and their families if they're caught. So the West, 252 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: as you said, has been in a cold war with 253 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: North Korea, which ultimately, if you game it out, is 254 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: our proxy war with China since pretty much the end 255 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: of World War Two. And that's part of the reason 256 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: Uncle Sam and other countries don't just enter North Korea 257 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: and do some government overthrow, because if they did, the 258 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: rulers of China Uncle Ji would get very mad, very quickly. 259 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 3: Well yeah, I mean, I know it's not This is 260 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 3: maybe not the venue to fully unpack all of this, 261 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 3: but I'm always confused with that, like steadfast support that 262 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 3: China gives to North Korea, much like some of the 263 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 3: steadfast support that we give to Israel. It's always just 264 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 3: confused me a little bit about what the motivations are 265 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 3: where that comes. I'm not trying to be hot button 266 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 3: here about it, but maybe you can see how I 267 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 3: would connect those relationships a little bit. 268 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: I could see I could see the parallels in the 269 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: structure the mechanisms of those relationships, because in both cases 270 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: there's a mix of ideology, there's a mix of resource extraction. 271 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: And in the case of the Korean Peninsula in particular, 272 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: China is investing in a bulwark in a buffer zone. Right, 273 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: So North Korea, for China is kind of its own 274 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: bigger DMZ. It's looking at Uncle Sam and the bases 275 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: out there around Seoul and so on, the capital of 276 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: South Korea, and it's going give me five feet, give 277 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: me a distance. 278 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 3: In the event of some sort of invasion or military assault. 279 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, especially given that North Korea is now technically a 280 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 1: nuclear power. North Korea was taking cues from the Soviets 281 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 1: when the whole operation began, and they said, we're going 282 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: to build a massive centralized economy like you were saying, 283 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: showing the power of the communist ideals, you know, they 284 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:04,199 Speaker 1: issue capitalism, and they aimed to build a new paradise 285 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: on Earth, and they said it's going to be uniquely Korean, 286 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: and it's going to be thoroughly communist on paper, it's 287 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: not quite communist, Noel, because they found a leader, the 288 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: infamous war heroe Kim Il sung, and Kim Il Sung 289 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: quickly becomes more than a political figure. He's the centerpiece 290 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: of a new nationwide cult of personality. North Korea began 291 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: and continues to worship this man as a god. His 292 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: family has ruled the area ever ever since. 293 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 3: And he was taking cues for sure from you know, 294 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 3: the hits Stalin and Mao, and in Kim Ilsong, those 295 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 3: two leaders of the USSR and China found the perfect 296 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 3: candidate to run their new country. Like you said, Ben 297 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 3: as something of a vassal state. This was pretty sharp 298 00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 3: and also pretty insidious. 299 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 1: Agreed, because here's what they're doing. They're finding a dictator 300 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: to push their values right and they want to hold 301 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: their space in the great monopoly game of geopolitics. But 302 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: they need him to appear to be homegrown, So they 303 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: need a Korean guy so they can say, hey, this 304 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 1: is an independent country that happens to agree with us. 305 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: But they were giving the orders, they were running the 306 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 1: place without officially occupying it, and Kim Ilsong is so fascinating. 307 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: He had various other titles over the decades. So he's 308 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: born in nineteen twelve, right, and he rules North Korea 309 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: from nineteen forty eight all the way up until he 310 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: passes away in nineteen ninety four. He was It was 311 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: similar to Vladimir Putin, where people just kept throwing different 312 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 1: titles and accolades upon them. His current posthumous title is 313 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 1: literally right now, the eternal Leader. 314 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 2: In a burst of humility, as you'd like to say, 315 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 2: Ben in. 316 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: A burst of humility, as we like to say. His 317 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 1: totalitarian regime is beyond domestic reproach. There were and are 318 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: no opposition parties. That's a thing that doesn't happen. There 319 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: are no civic minded independent groups. And for a little while, 320 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: this is the thing the Americans forget. For a little while, objectively, 321 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: they were doing well despite their extensive, aggressive violations of 322 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: anything slightly resembling human rights. 323 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. 324 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 3: In fact, by the sixties, North Korea had a higher 325 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 3: standard of living than the American aligned South Korea, which 326 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 3: was beset on all sides with economic and political turmoil. 327 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 3: And North Korea never forgave the US for its activities 328 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 3: during the Korean War, and a big part of their 329 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 3: ideology was decrying the Americans as belligerent imperialists. The North 330 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 3: Korean government has consistently demanded, so far without any particular success, 331 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 3: that the United States Uncle Sam remove itself from the 332 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 3: peninsula entirely, and they even seized an American vessel, the 333 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 3: USS Pueblo in nineteen sixty eight. However, by the seventies, 334 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 3: things started to take a bit of a turn. 335 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is where South Korea, the ROK recovers from 336 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 1: the chaos and the corruption. Well they never really recovered 337 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: from the corruption, but anyway, they start making a lot 338 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 1: of money. They get very involved in advantageous international trade. 339 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: At the same time, North Korea increasingly hermiting off. It 340 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 1: starts to falter and collapse as it is straying from 341 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: the usual Soviet communist ideology. The biggest distinction is that 342 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: Kim Il sung, the eternal leader, has this philosophy that 343 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: gets sold to the domestic population. It's called jeu cha. 344 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 1: Jeu Cha is I'm going to be diplomatic. According to 345 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: the official North Korean sources, jew Cha is the final 346 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: form of communism and it's focused on Korean nationalism, cultural preservation, 347 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: self reliance, and also I hate the Americans, I hate 348 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: the Japanese, and if you roll with them, screw you too. 349 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 3: So it's not just the kind of communism that on paper, 350 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 3: you know, some folks are wont to say, Wow, that'd. 351 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 2: Be great if it worked like that. 352 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 3: But this is even its own kind of specialized, hyper 353 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 3: nationalized version of that. 354 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, in everything but name, it's a theocracy. 355 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 3: Really. 356 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: The Soviets were not particularly tickled with this development. 357 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 2: But no, that's our thing. You can't take our thing 358 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 2: and just run with it. 359 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: Well, they said, we gave you the thing, we franchised. 360 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 2: You, now you're styling on it. 361 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: We stopped putting new stuff on the menu, you know, 362 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 1: Like it's as though, for the capitalist version, it's like 363 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: if McDonald's found out that a store in Oklahoma or 364 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: Florida had just started making eros without permission, Like, what's 365 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 1: what's up with these eros? 366 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 2: You guys? 367 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 1: Still everybody shrugged, and they said, what are you going 368 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: to do? And they knew the great game was still afoot, 369 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 1: So they supported North Korea along with China, through funding, 370 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 1: through subsidies, through all kinds of Shenanigans all the way 371 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: up until the Soviet Union itself fell in nineteen ninety 372 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: one and the Berlin Wall started tumbling down, et cetera. 373 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 3: One hundred percent. This was not a good thing for 374 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 3: North Korea. Without the support that they'd been receiving, their 375 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 3: economy got worse. 376 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 2: This led to widespread. 377 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 3: And absolutely horrific conditions, including famine throughout the land in 378 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety four, when the eternal Leader passed away. It's 379 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 3: really important to remember that Kim not only outlived Mao 380 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 3: and Stalin, his buddies and sort of you know, ideological mentors, 381 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 3: but over his reign, six different South Korean presidents also 382 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 3: came and went, and ten American presidents came and went. 383 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is a long time strong man, one 384 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: of the best to do it, actually, if you put 385 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: aside the ethics for a second. Also, just to clarify here, folks, 386 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: the Berlin Wall, the fall of it that we're referencing 387 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: occurs in November of nineteen eighty nine, So we're being 388 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: a little figurative, but that's one of the most parallels. 389 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: It's one of the most historically important death throws or 390 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: red flags of the Red flags. All right, we'll keep 391 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 1: it of the Soviet Union. Following in ninety one, scary 392 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 1: red flags. 393 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, kidd. 394 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: So Kim Il sung passes away in nineteen ninety four, 395 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: the nation goes into an intense period of grief. Do 396 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 1: a no small part to the fact that there is 397 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: such horrific famine that cannibalism does exist. It does happen. 398 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 1: Survival cannibalism occurs. Kim Il Sung's son, Kim Jong Il, 399 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: shout out, whoop. Max is a big fan. That's what 400 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: we say about when he's not around. Kim za Yil 401 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: succeeded him, and then Kim jong Il rules with an 402 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: iron fist. He leads the charge on becoming a nuclear power. 403 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: He passes away. He is succeeded by Kim Il Sung's 404 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: grand son, the current ruler, Kim Jong un. 405 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting because, I mean, you know, even though 406 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 3: this is technically a communist regime, as you may have gotten, 407 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 3: the sense of this is a dynasty. 408 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a family business. It's communism for ninety five 409 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: percent of the country, right, and it's also a theocracy. 410 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: But if you're at the top, you know there's no 411 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: short it's no secret that the West has a lot 412 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: of propaganda aimed at North Korea. So your browser search 413 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: away from hearing all sorts of wild stories. We'll probably 414 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: get to some of these. It's weird. It's an absolute monarchy, 415 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: it's a theocracy, but it's. 416 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 2: Secular, so that's right. 417 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 3: It's technically an atheist state, right, And this cult of 418 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 3: personality is i mean, probably the best example of a 419 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 3: pure cult of personality. I literally just googled North Korean religion, 420 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 3: and the religion in North Korea is ju see yes, right, 421 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 3: it is you are meant to worship the leaders. 422 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 2: Which is okay. 423 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 1: I'm going to get in trouble for this, but you know, 424 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: pre podcast, this was a thing I had to learn 425 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: a lot about and jeu cha, might itself be kind 426 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: of a grift. I don't know if I'm going to 427 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: be able to get back in there after I say 428 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: this on air, but jeu cha, if you look at 429 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:35,239 Speaker 1: Kim Elsung's actual writing, it basically just translates to the subject. 430 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: And then other people are using the big leaf of 431 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: communism to rationalize this worship of this one particular family, 432 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: and anybody who doesn't comply is going to be punished 433 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: with incarceration, losing job opportunities, sent off the forced labor 434 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: for life, they might be killed, not just them, but 435 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: their families as well. Unto the third generation, these folks 436 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: hold grudges. 437 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely, persona non grata all down the line. 438 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 3: So let's talk a little bit about that pure cult 439 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 3: of personality. The North Korean cultive personality that surrounds the 440 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 3: Kim family can be found in a lot of examples. 441 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 3: Ever witnessed been firsthand of North Korean culture. Now this 442 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 3: isn't directly acknowledged by the state, by the North Korean government, 443 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 3: but many defectors and visitors from western regions have witness 444 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 3: and report stiff penalties for anyone who would dare to 445 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 3: criticize or to not show proper deference or the current 446 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 3: or former leaders of the country. 447 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, anthropologically put, there is a disconnect between a lot 448 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: of other places in the world, And I mean there's 449 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: a there's a cultural chasm between what we would consider 450 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: proper respect and what the people of North Korea and 451 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: the government in North Korea would consider proper respect. 452 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 2: Have you bowed deep enough? 453 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: Did you take a picture at the wrong time, did 454 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: you say something and Australians get in trouble for this 455 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: all the time. Did you say something that you thought 456 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: was a funny joke and it was seen as disrespectful. Look, 457 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 1: the personality cult was definitely in play soon after Kimmelsung 458 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: took power in forty eight, But when he died in 459 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four, amid this famine, this economic collapse, they 460 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: turned the gas up so high on the personality cult, 461 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: on this Orwellian worship of things. That's partially due to 462 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it's due to several factors, but the main 463 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: factor operationally is that they needed to convince these people 464 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: who are having horrible time. They needed to convince these 465 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: people that Kim Il sung is God and that therefore 466 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: his children are the right rulers. So the North Korean 467 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: government's official position is, yeah, we don't have a cult 468 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: of personality. We as a people just all agree this 469 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: is the best family. We just all organically do this, 470 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: not because of consequences, because we're right. 471 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 3: And that's you know, that's not to say that there 472 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 3: aren't folks that live there who don't fully believe this 473 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 3: stuff with every you know, fiber of their being. Yeah. 474 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's a great point because this is this 475 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: is descended from Confucianism, right, from the idea of a 476 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: of a hierarchy of family in a hierarchy of society 477 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: that is indisputable and immovable. And so this confusion is 478 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: has been weaponized. You have to adore the leaders. It 479 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: reminds me of you remember Stalin, right, yeah, that guy, 480 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: yeah from earlier. 481 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 2: We sang now I'm really fun at parties. 482 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was a blast. Well, so, 483 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: as you mentioned previously, our buddy Kim took a lot 484 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: accues from the Mao Instalin personality quotes. And I always 485 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: remember the old story about people being terrified when they 486 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: watched speeches by Joseph Stalin. Nobody so people would start 487 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: clapping right, always a standing ovation, no matter what he says, 488 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: and people would clap for a very very long time 489 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: because everyone was afraid to be the first person to 490 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: stop clapping. You might look disloyal. It's a scary thing. 491 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 1: It's definitely in play in North Korea. Not cheering hard 492 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: enough it's a bad look. People might start to ask questions, 493 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: and asking questions or seeming disloyal pretty much anything can 494 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: land you in the camps and the camps are heinous. 495 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 496 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 3: Their human rights abuses have been widely reported, are well known, 497 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 3: proven and to your point, ben heinous. In two thousand 498 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 3: and nine, there is some satellite imagery that was unearthed 499 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 3: showing a lot about the way the Kyms lived, which 500 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 3: was pretty high on the hog, as well as the 501 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 3: terrifying subjugation of their people, the North Korean people. We 502 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 3: were able to see photographs showing details of Hua Soong 503 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 3: concentration Camp, which is generally referred to as Camp sixteen. 504 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 3: It's one of North Korea's most notorious prison camps. In 505 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,479 Speaker 3: The Wall Street Journal reported that it is roughly three 506 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 3: hundred square miles containing around twenty thousand political prisoners, located 507 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 3: near a facility for testing nuclear weapons. 508 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, again, this is the gnarly stuff, and we 509 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: have to talk about it. We know the horrors of 510 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: these prisons, all right, and even knowing that the West 511 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: has a lot of silly anti North Korean propaganda, there 512 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: are real, actionable and substantive human rights abuses occurring over 513 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: there in the north of the Peninsula. We're talking not 514 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: just starvation and disease, but also infanticide, which is the 515 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: murder of children, especially in cases where you know, if 516 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: you go to the wrong camp, if you do something 517 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: the government finds egregious enough, then you are no longer 518 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 1: a person. You are not only in some cases you're 519 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: not even forced into manual labor. You're forced into purpose 520 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:05,719 Speaker 1: fleet meaningless manual labor. And pregnant women due to that 521 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,800 Speaker 1: three generation rule have been incarcerated and they lose the kids, 522 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: and they're increasing the use of surveillance and forced labor, 523 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,240 Speaker 1: severe punishments. They're ratcheting it up to maintain total control 524 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,919 Speaker 1: as things collapse. You can read about this, of course 525 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: and things like Human Rights Watch, but the recent United 526 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: Nations report is from like this year, showing how profoundly 527 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: this has escalated. You can get the death penalty for 528 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: anything considered an anti state activity. That includes drug use, 529 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: although meth amphetamines were huge for a while. What could 530 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: be seen as pornography, human trafficking because so many people 531 00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: try to get out, distribution of unauthorized media thought crime basically, right, 532 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: don't go in there and start showing people, you know, 533 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: like an episode of Peacemaker, that's treasonous. And then economic 534 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: crimes like a free market. You grow some extra rice, 535 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: you got some wheat, you try to sell it to 536 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 1: make a little side hustle. That's also treason US. And 537 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,280 Speaker 1: of course, you know, this would be the moment where 538 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,839 Speaker 1: in many other countries someone would pop up on YouTube 539 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: or a late night talk show and they would say, Hey, 540 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 1: this is kind of weird and not normal, right, not 541 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: happening there. All media is controlled by the government. 542 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 2: For sure. 543 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 3: And you know, it's easy to be hyperbolic about a 544 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 3: lot of stuff that's going on in this country right 545 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 3: now and say we're descending into these types of conditions. 546 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 3: And while there's certainly some troubling indications that free speech 547 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 3: is being cracked down on, we have a long way 548 00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 3: to go to get anywhere approaching what's been going going 549 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 3: on in this part of the world for a very 550 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 3: long time. 551 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you. The US is far from perfect. 552 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 1: It's always been kind of a hold my beer experiment. 553 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: It's a very young country that swings above its weight class. 554 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 1: But it is a heck of a lot less stressful 555 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 1: to know you live in a place where, for now 556 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: you can say what you want without getting black bagged. 557 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,800 Speaker 1: That was a nice one on behalf of the founding fathers, 558 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,240 Speaker 1: So good on you, guys. 559 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 3: It would seem that that is remaining a safeguard of 560 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 3: some degree. With the Kimel situation, there's certainly a lot 561 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 3: of saber rattling, and you know, this idea of pulling 562 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 3: him off the air and Sinclair and all that stuff 563 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 3: folding the line. But a lot of that stuff has 564 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 3: been reversed. And I'm not saying it's not a mega 565 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,800 Speaker 3: slippery slope and it's not going to revert and possibly 566 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 3: even get worse than it already was. But it was 567 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,400 Speaker 3: a little bit heartening, and we're being positive here to 568 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 3: see that that stuff didn't hold and that there is 569 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 3: some sense of the constitution. 570 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: Now, folks, with all this information, we know what you're thinking. 571 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:11,800 Speaker 1: Long time ridiculous historians. Surely all of us are saying, guys, 572 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,720 Speaker 1: I love it. I can't wait to visit the good 573 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 1: ish news. You may be able to depend on where 574 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: you're from, as you know, Noelan Max. I've been over 575 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:27,760 Speaker 1: to the border twice, both times, very surreal experience, beyond surreal. 576 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: It's one of the most heavily surveilled and militarized areas 577 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: of the world, right there on the borders of the 578 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: DMZ because that's the only part that's demilitarized, and it's 579 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: riddled with minds. The border is heavily patrolled. It's also 580 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: heavily monetized. There are tons of tourist trapped things, and 581 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: there's a lot of South Korean propaganda too. You buy merchants, swag, 582 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,880 Speaker 1: historical artifacts. Oh oh wait, let me show you something, 583 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: hey guy, you'd love this. Yeah, you got what you 584 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: got know? This is wild blueberry wine from backdu Mountain. 585 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 2: Is that in a box like chicken broth? 586 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: It's uh, it is here, I could open it. 587 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 2: Oh, I got it. It's a it's a packet. 588 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 3: There's a bottle inside of it. Yeah, okay, I'm not 589 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 3: a very sypy looking wine, my friend. It looks something 590 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 3: like you pour on pekins. I feel like it's sketchy. 591 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 3: So I got it, and I'm never I mean even 592 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 3: in Oh that's a shell piece, my friends. No need 593 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 3: to sample it, just put it on a shelf. 594 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: It's right up there with my Zamzam water, uh, which 595 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:40,319 Speaker 1: is the holy water. So here's the thing. You can 596 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: get limited amounts of actual North Korean products like this 597 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:49,800 Speaker 1: sketchy bottle of blueberry wine. However, depending on your nationality, 598 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 1: depending on how things are going in the world, entering 599 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 1: North Korea can be either impossible or fatally dangerous. And 600 00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 1: I think it'd be cool for us to This is 601 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: a long quote, but I think it'd be cool for 602 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: us to round robin the warning that you see about 603 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: traveling to North Korea. It's directly from Wiki travel, which 604 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 1: is another fun website. 605 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 2: I mean, first and foremost, you just yeah, got nobody 606 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 2: having your back essentially once there, I mean, yeah, let's 607 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 2: let's get let's just get you gotta They sum it 608 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 2: up beautifully. 609 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: Let's take guys named Dennis Robmin the worm. They got 610 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 1: to call in the worm, all right. 611 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 3: Many governments do not recommend to traveling to North Korea 612 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,320 Speaker 3: due to the uncertain security situation caused by North Korea's 613 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 3: nuclear weapons development program and strict rules that are aggressively 614 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:41,400 Speaker 3: enforced in the country. 615 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 2: It continues. 616 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 1: There are no US and Canadian diplomatic offices in the DPRK. 617 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: The ability of officials to provide consular assistance is extremely limited. 618 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, the Swedes have an office, but like, good luck 619 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 3: getting help from them. They're your only recourse. Sorry to editorial. 620 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 3: The ability of officials to provide consular assistance is extremely limited. Sweden, 621 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 3: through its embassy in Pyongyang, is the protecting power for Canadian, 622 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:15,360 Speaker 3: American and Australian nationals if any emergency consular assistance is required. 623 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:16,759 Speaker 3: How come Sweden gets one? 624 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: Sweden goes everywhere. Man, they're just so friendly. Yeah, it continues. 625 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,879 Speaker 1: Such assistance will likely be very limited due to the 626 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:32,800 Speaker 1: unpredictability of the actions of the DPRK government and the leader. 627 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,080 Speaker 1: If you engage in activities that insult or disparage the government, 628 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 1: you will face imprisonment, torture, beating, disappearances, and forced labor 629 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: for life until death, starvation and execution. Sorry, talk about 630 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 1: a list of like side effects. Right. 631 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:53,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 632 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:57,320 Speaker 3: So a lot of would be tourists kind of quibble 633 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 3: about the ethical implications of going in the first place, right, like, 634 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:07,759 Speaker 3: if you go, are you not supporting this totalitarian and 635 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 3: brutally unethical but pretty much any standard reshime exactly. 636 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing. It is true because if you visit, 637 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 1: no matter where you're from, if you visit, people are 638 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: usually going to fly in from some Chinese airlines. You 639 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,879 Speaker 1: have to be pre registered with a state run tour operator. 640 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 1: They control everything the site visits, the restaurants, photography, conversations, 641 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: and these tour guides by the way, just so we know, 642 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 1: these two tour guides, like most North Korean people, are 643 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 1: super cool. They're just scared. They don't want to die, 644 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:49,160 Speaker 1: they don't want their family torture, so they're doing their best. 645 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,279 Speaker 1: And your hotel is going to be in Pyeongyang in 646 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 1: the capitol. Your hotel room is going to be bugged. 647 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 1: Don't touch anything that you don't have to touch because 648 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,760 Speaker 1: the government does not who you are. It will arrest 649 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,360 Speaker 1: you if they want for anything at your home. Government, 650 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,600 Speaker 1: as we said, realistically, will not be able to do 651 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,160 Speaker 1: much about it. You got to call in the worm, 652 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: you know. I mean, there's more to explore, and we 653 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 1: have to mention. We're ethically bound to mention the harrowing 654 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:24,360 Speaker 1: atrocities occurring in North Korea, but we also you know, 655 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 1: I'm working on being more positive. It's tough, but. 656 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:28,440 Speaker 2: Same dude, It is tough, but yeah, we do the 657 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:28,879 Speaker 2: best we can. 658 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,360 Speaker 1: Especially after that stuff film episode. 659 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 2: That was a rough one. 660 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:33,600 Speaker 3: Do check that out if you want to get real 661 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,839 Speaker 3: dark and non ridiculous over on stuff. 662 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 2: They don't want you to know. 663 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,680 Speaker 3: And also I would recommend It's been a while since 664 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 3: I've seen it, but it was my first exposure to 665 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:45,960 Speaker 3: a lot of this stuff. And this is a director 666 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,960 Speaker 3: who's been kind of really having a moment lately, Wook 667 00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,919 Speaker 3: Chan Park or Chan Wook Park. One of his very 668 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,280 Speaker 3: first films is called JSA, which stands for a Joint 669 00:42:55,320 --> 00:43:00,480 Speaker 3: Security Area and it is a political thriller that surrounds all. 670 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 2: The stuff we're talking about here today. 671 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 3: And it's not my favorite. It's a little dry and 672 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,480 Speaker 3: a little procedural, but you can see the fingerprints of 673 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 3: someone that would go on to make masterpieces like Old 674 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:14,320 Speaker 3: Boy and you know, the Sympathy series. And I believe 675 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 3: he's got a new one coming out soon that's supposed 676 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 3: to be a real contender that I don't know the 677 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:20,360 Speaker 3: details about it. 678 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,280 Speaker 2: That's like you know, awards and such. 679 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,840 Speaker 1: That's a nice reference. And I did enjoy enjoys not 680 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 1: the right word. I was mystified by the little blue 681 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,279 Speaker 1: building that you can hang out at. It's also where 682 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 1: they where they show videos and stuff. 683 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,120 Speaker 3: Right, didn't you say there's like constant on all the 684 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,760 Speaker 3: kind of welcome videos, but there is like eagles and stuff. 685 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:41,760 Speaker 2: What you have to watch. 686 00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 1: You have to watch a thing about how great the 687 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:48,239 Speaker 1: DMZ is for birds and natural wildlife on the South 688 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,960 Speaker 1: Korean side. Yeah, North Korea is also home to one 689 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,360 Speaker 1: of the world's most fascinating festivals. What we were playing earlier, 690 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:59,320 Speaker 1: Ara Rang are a wrong as well as the DMZ. 691 00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,720 Speaker 1: Maybe that that's where we end because beauty can emerge 692 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:07,319 Speaker 1: from horror. The DMZ dude similar to Chernobyl. It's a 693 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:12,560 Speaker 1: textbook example of how the natural world can flourish when 694 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:14,480 Speaker 1: the humans are removed from the equation. 695 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is quite the wildlife paradise. Yeah. 696 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,880 Speaker 1: Our favorite thing probably well, I don't want to speak 697 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,359 Speaker 1: for you guys, but one of my favorite things is 698 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:30,280 Speaker 1: of the more than five thousand animal and plant species 699 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:33,960 Speaker 1: identified in the area, including more than one hundred that 700 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,280 Speaker 1: are endangered in other parts of the world. 701 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,440 Speaker 2: There are rumors. 702 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,759 Speaker 1: Even to this day that the Amur leopard and the 703 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:46,160 Speaker 1: Siberian tiger may roam the DMZ. Cool. 704 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:48,879 Speaker 2: That's cool. I likes cool. 705 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:50,560 Speaker 3: When you said it like that that I was picturing 706 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,440 Speaker 3: you were going to like an encryptid direction, It's like, right, 707 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 3: uh huh, these are you know that level of rare? 708 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,600 Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, one hundred percent. There Again, there's so much 709 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,400 Speaker 1: other stuff we can get to. We do want to 710 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: point out again what we're saying about history being a 711 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,600 Speaker 1: palimpsest within her generational consequences. Not just in East Berlin, 712 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,239 Speaker 1: but if you look at this peninsula, you'll see that, 713 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:21,759 Speaker 1: on average, due to malnutrition, North Korean citizens are going 714 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,799 Speaker 1: to be one to three inches shorter than South Korean citizens. 715 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,600 Speaker 2: Da, I didn't know malnutrition made you shorter. I just 716 00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,239 Speaker 2: thought it made you skinnier. 717 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:34,600 Speaker 1: If you're not eating during the formatives. 718 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:35,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it does make it. 719 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 1: It's part of why Audrey Hepburn looks so unique. 720 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,040 Speaker 2: Actually didn't know well. 721 00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:46,560 Speaker 3: Speaking of Audrey Hepburn and Hollywood Royalty, the next episode 722 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,880 Speaker 3: that we're going to be doing for y'all is about 723 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,960 Speaker 3: the mysterious case of the Missing Ruby Slippers, the Golden 724 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,239 Speaker 3: age Hollywood relic made famous by the Wizard of Oz 725 00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,880 Speaker 3: and who knew well, Our buddy Jordan Runtogg knew that 726 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,600 Speaker 3: there's a gangsters story involves some moths, some sort of 727 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:08,920 Speaker 3: retired would be heisty mafioso's, and quite a few hilarious 728 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:13,359 Speaker 3: misunderstandings that went on for quite a long time. We're 729 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,400 Speaker 3: going to talk about that on the next episode of 730 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,439 Speaker 3: Ridiculous History, but in the meantime, Ben, thanks for doing 731 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:18,400 Speaker 3: all the research on this one. 732 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,759 Speaker 2: I know this is sort of a pet subject. 733 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,880 Speaker 3: For you, and I learned a whole lot that I 734 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,640 Speaker 3: did not know about this very very interesting part of 735 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:27,440 Speaker 3: the world, the Hermit Kingdom. 736 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,200 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for tuning in, everybody. There is a 737 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:35,279 Speaker 1: panoply of excellent research on here. There are tons of 738 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:39,920 Speaker 1: strange stories, some more true than others, about the Democratic 739 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:44,239 Speaker 1: People's Republic of Korea. Please please please hit us up 740 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,120 Speaker 1: if you want to know more, and please check out 741 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,319 Speaker 1: our previous related episodes on stuff they don't want you 742 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,200 Speaker 1: to know. We'll be back later this week with a 743 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,880 Speaker 1: shoe centric episode, a little bit of a Ridiculous crime 744 00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,560 Speaker 1: hat we shall doff and you know, thanks to you 745 00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,080 Speaker 1: super producer, mister Max Williams. Thanks to your brother Alex 746 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,360 Speaker 1: Williams who composed this bang in tract. 747 00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,800 Speaker 3: Of course, Chris Frosciotis and Eve Jeff Coates here at Spira, 748 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,600 Speaker 3: Jonathan Strickland The quizt Aj Mohammed Jacob's the Puzzler, and 749 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,560 Speaker 3: again Ben, our research associate on this episode, you, sir, 750 00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,640 Speaker 3: thanks for hanging pleasure. 751 00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,840 Speaker 1: And again thanks to Man. I'm still speaking of weirdly 752 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,319 Speaker 1: specific reference works. I'm still in love with depraved and 753 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,960 Speaker 1: insulting English. We don't have to do it again, but 754 00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,359 Speaker 1: everybody check out that book and Noel, so glad you're 755 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,799 Speaker 1: back safe Man. I am excited about the show. I 756 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,840 Speaker 1: know there are too many details we can divulge just yet, 757 00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,800 Speaker 1: but as they emerge, as we get closer, we can't 758 00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:47,960 Speaker 1: wait to tell you more about the show. So thanks 759 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:48,319 Speaker 1: to you. Know. 760 00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, Man, it's a real history mystery and it's got 761 00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,680 Speaker 3: a lot of interesting aspects around the Cold War, around 762 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,120 Speaker 3: the kind of stuff that we're talking about today, and 763 00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,960 Speaker 3: it also has a true crime at the center of it. 764 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,520 Speaker 3: But it's not kind of your average total bummer true 765 00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:04,120 Speaker 3: crime story. 766 00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:04,919 Speaker 2: So thanks Ben. 767 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,560 Speaker 3: I will reveal info as it becomes available to share. 768 00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,920 Speaker 3: In the meantime, jeez, we'll see you next time. 769 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:12,280 Speaker 2: Folks. 770 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,920 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 771 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,120 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.