WEBVTT - Disney Sees Decline in Streaming Subscribers 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:05.680 This is Bloomberg Business Wait inside from the reporters and 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.440 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.680 global business finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:19.000 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:22.320 Disney shares fauling the most, and I think about six months, 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:24.200 we definitely saw a bunch of selling today. It was 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:28.240 really concerns once again about subscribers in its name Sake 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.280 streaming service. They also predicted a wider loss in that 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:33.360 business this quarter. So let's get to it. Let's talk 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:35.320 about the quarter. Let's talk about the business. We've got 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:39.479 a great roundtable. David Trainer is chief executive of New Constructs, 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:42.199 former stock analyst on Wall Street. He now has a 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:46.160 robo analyst technology that looks at companies, goes through it 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:49.680 tells us makes sense about valuation and balance sheets. And 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:51.840 Mark Douglas is with us, president CEO of A Mountain. 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:55.240 It's an ad software company really works with brands to 0:00:56.280 --> 0:01:00.160 move into revenue and streaming TV and site visit and 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:00.760 all this good stuff. 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:01.360 So it's funked. 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:05.720 I'm trying to set the stage, so let's get to it. Guys, David, 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:09.000 I want to start with you your thoughts, just initially 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:10.959 coming off of Disney, what they said last night on 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:13.039 the call, what stands out. 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:15.360 Yeah, I think that Disney is doing the right thing 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.959 and de emphasizing Disney plus. I mean, look, streaming was 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:22.240 never meant to be a money maker. Netflix has burned billions, 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:26.240 They've never actually turned a cash profit in the streaming business, 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:30.160 and I think Disney has rightly recognized that streaming is 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.880 just another way to get customers into the top of 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:38.200 their funnel so that they can monetize those folks downstream. 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:41.360 And there are other much more profitable businesses like parks 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:46.399 and merchandising, And that's a very unique advantage that Disney had. 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:48.920 They actually make a lot of money and their other 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:52.200 businesses that they can afford to have streaming as a 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:55.720 loss leader, whereas Netflix and some of these other pure 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:56.920 streaming plays cannot. 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:01.040 So Mark, this is really interesting because I live it right. 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:08.160 My daughter watches Frozen and Mowana on repeat, and then 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:11.040 she begs me to take her to the toy store 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:15.160 and spend much more money on the products from those. 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:17.040 Two films to go to the Disney Park, and she. 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:19.160 Wants to go to the parks because of them. So 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:21.320 what David's saying makes a heck of a lot of 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:25.600 sense to me. I'm much poorer for the streaming service. 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.320 What do you think, Well, I think ultimately, you know, 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:32.840 you have to buy products, not stocks, in the sense 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:35.240 of the stocks that have the best products of what 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:38.080 you buy. Consumers want streaming. 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:39.960 So I don't. 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:43.320 Quite agree the idea that Disney should move away from 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:46.639 what its customers want. They want on demand content. They 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.200 want a big choice in the content. And I think 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.600 Disney and other companies they figured out how to make 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:56.000 that profitable on linear television, and I think there's no 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.000 reason they won't figure out how to do that profitably 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.600 on streaming. Definitely going through a transition, and that trend 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.359 from linear to streaming, and that transition has a lot of. 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:07.080 Costs associated with it. 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:10.200 But if you want to be involved in Disney long term, 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:13.440 you have to believe in all the process of streaming products, 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:16.840 the park products, the cruise products you know, and all 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:19.160 the other you know, ESPN and all of that. So 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:23.320 I think streaming is potentially the most important part of 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:27.560 Disney because the migration from linear to TV is on 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:29.000 the level of a million. 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:31.359 Households and more, well to be a size of Phoenix. 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:34.240 David, comeback, are you saying Disney should be out of 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:36.840 streaming or that you say it makes sense but it's 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:38.680 because it's a funnel into everything else. 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.040 Yeah, yeah, I think I think we're really on the 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.120 same pagtreot. I'm not saying that they should get rid 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:46.000 of it. I think that they should be emphasized and 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:51.200 not throw you know, money after like crazy like Netflix 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:54.200 hit for years, right, and for the Netflix is Netflix 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:58.160 and salesforce. These original business models that were built on 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:01.400 an unlimited amount of capital to burn and the hopes 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:03.760 of building a large enough customer base that they could 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:07.440 eventually monetize that in a profitable way. That's not working 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.000 for either business. And I think the good news is 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.880 that Disney's not trying to do that. They do need it. 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.360 It is a new channel. There's no question streaming around 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:19.320 to stay, for sure, But don't go chasing streaming to 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:22.120 the point where you're trying to acquire unprofitable customers. 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:24.760 But well, you do think it's a loss leader though, right, David. 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:28.840 So you think, for example, investors sell the stock when 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:32.920 they see subscriber numbers fall, streaming subscriber numbers fall, and 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:37.599 you're saying, Hey, those subscribers are expensive as hell, so 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:39.800 if I see a few of them fall away in 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:41.760 a quarter or two, it's not going to bother me. 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:44.400 That's exactly what I'm saying. So I'm saying because a 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:47.920 lot of these losses were in India and non US, 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:51.920 and those are the least profitable customers. They're money losers, 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:54.600 and so it's just time to get rational in the business. 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:58.440 Because Netflix set an example being so irrational because they 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:00.440 were using capital as a weapon, which that they could 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:02.960 spend a limited amount of money to just go acquire 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:05.640 customers for the sake of showing customer growth. Remember when 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:08.240 everyone talked about Netflix, it was always about customer growth 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:10.920 and nothing about profits. Right now we're talking about profits, 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.359 and so they're boasting customer declines. And that's because you 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:17.599 shouldn't chase unfowful customers. That doesn't mean the channel goes away, 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:19.000 it just means it becomes more raptional. 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:21.919 Now Netflix is actually up today or was up in 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:25.760 the in the cash session, almost three percent. And I 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:30.400 don't want to completely, you know, change the subject of 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:33.760 the conversation here, But Mark Douglas, do you think Netflix 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:37.800 still has a future? I mean, I think I believe 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:40.280 that David's position is Netflix is going to cash burn 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:43.160 itself out. Do you think Netflix is going to be 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:45.640 able to cut costs and make money at some point 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.279 because they haven't really generated free cash flow thus far. 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.520 Yeah, I mean, I think there's definitely, given this scale, 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:54.200 the opportunity to cut costs. I agree with what's being 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:57.880 said in terms of different markets have different unit economics 0:05:57.880 --> 0:05:59.960 and you kind of have to make a clear choice 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:04.400 as to which of those economics that you want to pursue. 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:07.920 I think the big thing for Netflix is how all 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:09.960 in are they going to go in terms of ad 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:14.560 supported model, and you know, if they the streaming model, 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:17.760 the unit economics at least in some markets, you know 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:22.200 right that it's it hasn't been the greatest, but the 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.720 opportunity to sell ads against that content I think is 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:28.240 a boost to the brand. It brings in more of 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:32.080 those subscribers, and even with their core subscribers, I mean, 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:36.400 there's an opportunity to essentially do price increases through you know, 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:40.400 basically the inclusion of ads at some point and maybe 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:43.240 you trade you know, a dollar or two dollars a 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:47.279 discount for five, six, seven dollars more of revenue over 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:49.039 the month. But these things are hard to do, and 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:53.680 I think I completely agree that the obsession with subscribers 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.880 it needs to stop. I think people actually want that 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:59.479 because it's a reason to get the stock to swing 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.360 and generate profits for short term traded. 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:05.839 David, you've got this natural language processing technology formula. You 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:09.880 can really look at Disney earnings, the quality of those earnings, 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.800 you know, and against its current valuation. When you do that, David, 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:15.120 what does it tell you about Disney? 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:19.040 Well, Disney's economics are are the worst they've been in 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:21.840 a while. You know. Look, I think the double whammy 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:27.520 of the Fox acquisition in COVID was rough, and you 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:31.960 know this, but we are seeing the margins and returnsal 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:36.960 capital turning back up. I think with Bob Eiger back 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:39.880 in charge, we could expect to see that trend continue. 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:42.640 And that's why we're bullish. We think if returnsal capital 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.160 get back to half of where they were, the stock's 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:46.840 easily one hundred and thirty dollars stock. 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:50.600 Mark ESPN streaming. How valuable is that? Because you know 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:52.360 that there's been pressure on Disney to kind of kick 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:53.520 it out as a separate entity. 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:54.720 Yeah, I think. 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:56.960 I think it's critical to the brand. I mean, the 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.880 one thing everyone should remember. More people want television a day, 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:04.560 then use social media, and they spend three times as 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:07.080 much time doing it too. They spend fifty nine minutes 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:10.320 a day on TikTok and met they spake three hours 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.960 a day on television. So, you know, the Disney brand 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:18.680 is built on the broad appeal or a lot of consumers. 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.360 A lot of that appeal starts with those television assets, 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:25.560 those movie assets, so they're really critical to brand. I 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:28.200 actually think long term, the biggest risk to Disney is 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:31.640 the brand is associated with being magical, and they need 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.680 to maintain that magic in terms of everything they're doing. 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:37.280 So they have to balance the short term cust cutting 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:42.240 with maintaining the magic, to maintain the price points that 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:45.800 they have like at Disneyland and with all these products, 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:49.440 and maybe over time with the subscription services. I think 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:51.880 it's really critical for the long term health of the 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:52.559 Disney brand. 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:54.760 All right, guys, we got to leave it on that note, 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.960 and they get to complain about ESPN Plus, Well, you know, 0:08:58.160 --> 0:08:59.240 we'll save that for next blog. 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:00.800 Okay, I just want to complaycause I don't get to 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.360 see enough good games on ESPN plus not on cable. 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.400 Well me, is it Friday yet? David Trainer over at 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:10.720 New Constructs, Smart Douglas at Mountain, We really appreciate you, Johnny, 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.520 Matt and myself. You are listening and watching Bloomberg Business Week, 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:15.240 and this is Bloomberg Radio. 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:20.360 If you're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, catch 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.800 us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:27.319 on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:30.600 Business app, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.080 We're going to take a step back from the markets 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:36.199 for a moment to something I think it's safe to 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.280 say that most of us have dealt with in our 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:41.640 lives on some level, and that is hearing loss. That 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:44.800 two to three out of every one thousand children in 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:46.720 the US are born with the detectable level of hearing 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:49.280 loss in one or both ears. More than ninety percent 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.000 of deaf children are born to hearing parents, and roughly 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:54.960 fifteen percent of American adults. We're talking about more than 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:57.960 thirty seven million age eighteen and over. Report some trouble hearing, 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:00.200 so it's a big issue. So we want to to 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.199 get to it with doctor Kerrie Neman, core faculty member 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.480 for the Coochlear Center for Hearing in Public Health at 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:08.760 the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, supported by 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.319 Michael R. Bloomberg, Founder of course at Bloomberg Elpy and 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:15.080 Bloomberg Philanthropies. She is with us on Zoom from Bethesda, Maryland. 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:18.360 Doctor Neman, it is so nice to have you here 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:20.400 with Matt and myself. It is a big issue. I 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:23.679 certainly dealt with it with my aging dad went through 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.440 hearing aids. It wasn't always such an easy process. But 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:27.439 talk to us a little bit about it. 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:29.880 Why I'm so loud by the way you are loud, man. 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:33.199 Because well I know, but all joking aside, right, It's 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.720 because I have pretty significant hearing loss. 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:41.080 And over time I just don't afore myself as well. 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:44.320 Are you born with no I just ruined my hearing 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:47.560 in my teenage years and as a result, I guess 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:48.760 you know, it's the same thing happened to my dad, So 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.920 it could be genetic genetic to some extent. 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:53.760 Doctor Nemen, come on in and kind of set the 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:55.640 stage for us because it apparently, like I said, it 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:56.640 affects a lot of us. 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:00.880 Yeah, exactly, exactly. We almost all of us at some 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:03.839 point in time are going to experience some degree of 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:07.120 hearing loss. The thing that I think has really shifted 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:09.679 and changed in the past ten to fifteen years is 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:12.679 now how we think about hearing loss. We really no 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.200 longer think about it as this just benign part of 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:18.720 the aging process. It is, you know, something that we 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:21.040 view and need to view right in the context of 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.800 healthy aging. So if we all want a shot at 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:27.160 aging as well as possible, it needs to be kind 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:28.880 of in that long list of things that we're all 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:30.680 thinking about as we age. 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:35.600 So how do people deal with it if they have 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:38.560 less money? You know, my mother in law, who lives 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:42.000 in Spain, which is a socialist country, just spent four 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:45.200 thousand euros to buy hearing aids and I was so 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.680 you know, impressed with the price. I just couldn't believe 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:51.960 it is that how much that kind of gear costs. 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:53.600 That's kind of what it caused my dad, I think too. 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:54.439 Yeah, it's crazy. 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:56.800 Yeah, And that is Yeah, that's certainly in line with 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:59.720 what we see and what we've traditionally seen. The thing 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:03.480 that has shifted in this you really past year or 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.400 so is the advent and the opening of over the 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.360 counter hearing aids into the market. And so that's one 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:11.960 important piece of the puzzle in terms of how do 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.040 we make hearing care more affordable, is by bringing the 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.640 technology side of things down in terms of opening up 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.280 that market and so it's not dominated just by a 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:24.040 few kind of players, but opening up to consumer electronics 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:26.320 and many others to enter. But I think the important 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:28.679 piece here is, yes, we have technology, but how do 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:31.920 we connect older adults to that technology? And that's a 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.280 lot of the work that I do in partnership with 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:37.240 community partners and particular community health workers. 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:39.520 Yeah, and only I wonder if this is going to 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:42.960 be in the budget talks. I'm guessing not necessarily like 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:45.760 spending on this or providing I say that I'm bringing 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.000 that up because the headline is crossed. President Biden's meeting 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:51.520 with congressional leaders on the debt ceiling has been postponed. 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:54.280 So it goes on business as usual sometimes if you will, 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:57.120 when it comes to Washington. But doctor Nieman, no, I 0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:59.400 do think about this right like it is so expensive, 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:01.880 and you do want what we're doing to somehow make 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:05.040 it more affordable or is there something the government can do. 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:06.720 I don't know what's the answer here. What do you 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:07.560 How do you guys. 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:07.880 Look at it? 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:10.240 How we look at it is you know, we have 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:12.200 this kind of new piece in terms of over the 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:15.240 counterhearing technology, but it can be really hard to navigate 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.440 in terms of where in the world you even start 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.640 in terms of googling versus you know, going to an 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:23.160 audiologist versus going to an E ANDT your primary care doctor. 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:25.000 You know, where do we start? And so a lot 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:26.960 of the work that we've done is saying, you know, 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.560 how can we make this as easy as possible in 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:33.080 terms of partnering with individuals in a community setting who 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.880 can go through kind of a structured way in which 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.760 they introduce somebody to a piece of technology and say, hey, 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:40.719 this is how you learn how to use it. This 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:42.439 is how we can get you set up and going. 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:45.760 And you know, we have seen results in our work 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:49.800 that are comparable to what we see with gold standard hearing. 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:52.280 It's fit by an audiologist and that's you know done. 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.120 You know, in a community setting, in partnership with community 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.400 health worker two hours using over the counterhearing technology. And 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:00.640 so it's not only just the technology, but it's an 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.040 openness to kind of new and different models of care 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:04.800 that are going to need to come alongside. 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.400 So talk to us about the gear. The basic setup 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:10.000 is how much does it cost? 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:13.959 Is it just like an amplifier that you know, makes 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:18.120 the sounds in your in your atmosphere louder and. 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:20.880 Can you get it at you know CVS or Dwayne Reed? 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:21.440 What is this? 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:23.760 Yeah, yeap one hundred percent. So there are a lot 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:27.760 of different options available. There are options that look like 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:31.200 a headset that can be you know, user friendly for 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:34.240 individuals who've you know, had a stroke or have bad arthritis, 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:36.760 and those can run around just one hundred dollars and 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.480 they can work really well. But then there's obviously a 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:42.320 lot of other devices that are at your level that 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.120 look like you're traditional hearing aid and those are going 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:48.720 to run more in line with around three hundred four 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:51.440 hundred for one side for one ear, So that is 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.200 certainly some money, but it is definitely an improvement from 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:56.320 the four thousand dollars. You know, hearing is that you 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:58.880 may get, you know, through your audiologists or your n T. 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:01.320 Can you just do one the year? I guess you can, right, like, 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.640 if you just have pressure? Yeah, what if you I 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:04.560 mean if you kidding? 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:06.080 Ideally, yeah, go ahead. 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.160 Yeah, ideally, Ideally it's two. You know, but if we 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.840 were talking about nothing versus something, we'll always take something, 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:13.800 and one is always better than none. 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:16.120 What about people born with hearing loss? 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:18.760 You know I did years ago, I did a piece 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:22.320 on cochlear implants for the deaf, and there was some 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.280 debate in the community about whether or not that was 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:28.560 even a good idea because they don't and they don't 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.560 want to really accept deafness as being something that needs 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:33.560 to be fixed. On the other hand, we had a 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.080 guest the other day who's had ninety percent hearing loss 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:37.680 in his left ear since he was born, and he 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:41.160 went and got a cochlear implant that he. 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:43.280 Says has just changed his life for the better. 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:44.520 So recently got it. 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:46.800 Yeah, and he's sixty five years old, and he finally said, 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.200 you know what, it's time. The technology is there and 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.040 he's bald anyway, so he just went and got one. 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.120 Yeah. No, so good question. A lot of what our 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.200 work is focused on from kind of a public health 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.400 perspective is really based on on the numbers in terms 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:04.760 of you know, for sure there you know, we have 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:08.320 individuals who are deaf heart of hearing, who are born deaf, 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.320 but that does represent a fairly small portion of the 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:13.520 population in terms of you know, those numbers you were 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.680 citing in terms of in the millions. You know though, 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:18.880 that's primarily age related hearing loss, and most of that 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.520 is mild and moderate and so solidly in the realm 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:24.200 of individuals who generally want to stay within the hearing 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:28.200 world and are are looking for assistance and don't yet 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:30.920 qualified for cochlear implant. So it's really that group of 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:33.400 individuals that we're looking, you know, that over the counter 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:35.600 hearing aids and kind of these new and different delivery 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:37.720 models are looking to help address. 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:38.440 Before we go. 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:40.960 And I'm thinking about this having dealt with you know, 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:45.120 aging parents and aging family members, the connection between hearing 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:48.080 loss and depression or dementia for that fat matter. 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.800 Yeah, so great question. There have been a lot of 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:55.840 large population based studies that have seen an association and 0:16:55.920 --> 0:17:00.320 really kind of repeatedly in association between things like hearing loss, mensia, 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:01.359 cognitive decline. 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:03.400 But the big. 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:05.480 Question that really remains for a lot of us in 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.959 the scientific realm, is have we seen data that shows 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.879 us that if we take somebody who you know, maybe 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.760 doesn't have a depression or you know, doesn't have dementia, 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:18.400 and you know, give them a hearing aid, can we 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:20.919 slow that cognitive cline or can we you know, improve 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:24.720 their depression and do that in kind of a structured, 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:28.240 rigorous fashion. And so that is happening and ongoing right 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:30.280 now in terms of some of the larger trials, and 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:32.639 we're really excitedly waiting the results of that, which are 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.200 expected out this year in terms of twenty twenty three, 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:37.240 so a lot more to come there. But that's exactly 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:39.520 the type of thing that we're thinking about when we're 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:41.199 saying hearing loss matters. 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.200 Well, so appreciate catching up with you. Thank you so much. 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:48.639 Really important, certainly, doctor carry Neiman. She's core faculty member 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:51.600 of the Cochlear Center for Hearing in Public Health at 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:53.840 the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, as we 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:56.800 remind you, supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder at Bloomberg 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.320 LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. But so do you ever think 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.400 about that you might hearing needs at some point, I. 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:05.200 Think I definitely will. You know, my dad has gotten them. 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:07.840 And I think it's interesting that you bring up the 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:12.080 connection between hearing loss and dementia or hearing loss and depression, 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:17.359 because I have seen that firsthand and the turnaround is 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:21.280 pretty marvelous. So I think people just don't think about 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:23.240 it and they don't make time to go and deal 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:25.600 with this kind of thing because they think I can't 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:27.560 hear that. Very well, no big deal. It is a 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:29.280 big deal, and it's better if you take care of. 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:31.639 It because you're really, you know, kind of excluded if 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:35.280 you can't hear, and so it's it's a really important issue. 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:40.119 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:44.200 live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio, 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:47.679 the Bloomberg Business App, and YouTube. You can also listen 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:50.879 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:56.080 Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty and we want. 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:59.320 To talk to a company and to its head. They 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.199 actually reported earnings this week. They are about a two 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:05.159 point nine billion dollar market cap app, location, software and 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.080 cloud company. We're talking about Digital Ocean Holdings, first quarter 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:11.479 revenues met estimates. As for the overall report, though Barkley 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.000 said the results were somewhat mixed and we're looking at 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:16.360 a stock that's up about twenty five percent so far 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:20.359 here in twenty twenty three. Yancy Sproul is CEO at 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:24.080 Digital Ocean, joining us on Zoom from Boulder, Colorado. Yancey, 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:25.840 it is nice to have you here with Matt and 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:28.679 myself before we start and get into the quarter in 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:32.520 the business, just remind our world exactly what you guys do. 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:34.600 Application software covers an awful. 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:37.399 Lot, that's sure does and great to be with you. 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:40.720