1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, I'm Molly Frying, 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy Vie Wilson. Uh, and welcome one skin to 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: casual Friday with the stuff you missed in History Class. 5 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: So this week we talked about Joan Curran, who is 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: a scientist that has just not gotten her due in 7 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: the public sphere. In my opinion, I don't know how 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: I stumbled across her. This is I do not remember. 9 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: I literally have uh, multiple lists that I keep in 10 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: various states of disarray. I have one on my phone 11 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: that are potential episodes. But then I also have like 12 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: kind of my adaptation of like a bullet journal style 13 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: notebook that I keep with me and keep all my 14 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: stuff in and literally scrawled on one of the pages 15 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: like two months ago is the name Joan Curran. And 16 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: I don't remember how I got to it. But then 17 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: I went back to it recently and I was like, wait, 18 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: why didn't I jump right on this, uh? And I 19 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: don't know why, maybe because I've been talking about a 20 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: lot of science lately, but I it was one of 21 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: those things where the refreshing and beautiful part of it 22 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: to me is how over and over the men who 23 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: were her colleagues and friends, we're always very quick to 24 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: correct people who did not recognize that she was a 25 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: heavy hitting, brilliant scientist in her own right, which is awesome. Yeah, 26 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: that's not something that you always here. Like there was 27 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: one instance I'm going to get some of the details 28 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: wrong because I don't have the notes right in front 29 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: of me, but where one of her friends recounted when 30 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: he was like first meeting their family and they were 31 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: at some like academia event and she was sitting at 32 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: this table with other physicists and it was I believe 33 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: when her her husband, Samuel was was head of the 34 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: University of strath Clydes um science department, and someone said 35 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: some thing about, you know, what a good sport she 36 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: was to sit there and listen to them, and like 37 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: two of the men at the table were like, um, 38 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: she's smarter than the rest of us put together. So 39 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: like that is a really lovely thing that her colleagues 40 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: were never she seemed to not uh suffer that situation 41 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: that happens with a lot of women scientists where it's like, 42 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: that's cute that you did research. The men are talking 43 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: that never seemed to happen, particularly considering that she was 44 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: working in the nineteen thirties and nineteen forties when it 45 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: was a lot less common for a woman to have 46 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: a seat at the table in terms of the level 47 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: of research she was doing, and clearly, like the Royal 48 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: Air Force and British leadership recognized that this was a 49 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: smart person who needed to be utilized for her intellect 50 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: to make contributions to the war effort, which was kind 51 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: of to me the best takeaway from that whole thing. 52 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: You know, talking about war is very difficult in general. 53 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: As I get older, it gets harder and harder to 54 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: read some of these accounts, because, uh, the more you 55 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: learned about the world, the more you recognize, like the 56 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: depth of impact of even sometimes seemingly small gestures or 57 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 1: small moments. But we like I never really learned the 58 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: degree of devastation of Hamburg during the raids during Operation 59 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: gomorra Um. I remember getting a very very brief version 60 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: of it, like in high school, of like, these were 61 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: very big bombing raids, there were civilians killed, but I 62 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: literally had not ever until I dug into her story 63 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: and that particular result of her work like how horrifying 64 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: it was, and everyone who lived through it and later 65 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: spoke about it talked about being really like a hell 66 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: on Earth. And what's really interesting in that as well 67 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: is even the men who were involved in that raid 68 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: on the Allied side talking about how at the time 69 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: they were like cheering because they thought it had gone 70 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: so well, and when they realized what had really happened 71 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: and how completely destroyed Hamburg was, like, they all felt 72 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: a weird sort of um conflict and guilt about it 73 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: that I think a lot of them were dealing with 74 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: for the rest of their lives. Yeah. Yeah, and it's 75 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: I said in the show, but I feel like the 76 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 1: bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki yet a lot more attention, 77 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: at least here in the US um than all of 78 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: the other destruction leading up to that point, when it 79 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: like that wasn't something that was unique to the end 80 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: of the war. No, and it and you know, it's 81 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: it's just one of those things that makes you think 82 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: about the things that humans will do to one another 83 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: in the names of strange strange efforts. Yeah. On a 84 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: on a potentially lighter note, As you were researching this, 85 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: did you find anything about like the clean up effort 86 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: of all of this material that was dropped around, because 87 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 1: it just seems like a lot um you know what. 88 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: I didn't, But it is a good question. I mean 89 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: I kind of suspect that what happened in a lot 90 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: of cases, although I don't know for the D Day prep, 91 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: where they were using it really more as a a 92 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: sort of wartime theater effort, this would not have been 93 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: the case, but when they were using it during bombing raids, 94 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: I suspect that there was so much destruction in general 95 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: that kind of that material got lumped into the general 96 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: clean up without really separating out what that was versus 97 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: you know, collapsed buildings versus you know, the loss of 98 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: human life. It all kind of got lumped together as 99 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: one big problem to rebuild from. It would be my guest, 100 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: But I don't know, And that's a good question. Other 101 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: than knowing that a cow ate some I really don't 102 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: have a lot of info about what the cap was 103 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: on all that aluminum. There are still some places that 104 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: have those strips of aluminum that have been recovered as 105 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: like museum pieces, right. I saw some of those when 106 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: I was rousing around the internet. It was one of 107 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: those things that I was just curious about. And there 108 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: are also things that are surely much more damaging than 109 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: window that is left behind during wartime. I mean, we 110 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: have unexploded ordinance that we need to talk about on 111 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: Unearthed pretty free, but I was just curious. It is fascinating. 112 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: It was painted black because they didn't want the reflective 113 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: nature of aluminum to give away anything either. So in 114 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: some cases I suspect people didn't recognize that it was 115 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: aluminum stripping versus part of a damaged building or other 116 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: bomb damage because it didn't look like a shiny metal thing. 117 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: That would be my guess. So the second thing that 118 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: we talked about this week was mir Saki Shikibu and 119 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: the Tale of Genji. My introduction to this, as was 120 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: the case with say Shown, was a class that I 121 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: took in college called Medieval Women Writers, which has actually 122 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: inspired a number of episodes of this show at this 123 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: point because other people that we read included Marjorie Kemp 124 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: the Book of the City of Ladies. We read in 125 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: that class. Like there was a lot of things that 126 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: over the past several years have eventually made their way 127 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: into episodes, but this was a class, unsurprisingly a class 128 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: about medieval women writers, which was an elective taught in 129 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: the literature department of a university that had more women 130 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: than men at It was taught by a woman and 131 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: had a majority people in the class, mostly women, And 132 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: boy did we think Genji was gross. The translation that 133 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: we read was one of was by Edward Scheidensticker in 134 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: the seventies, and we did not read the whole entire 135 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: book because that's just not reasonable in the course of 136 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: a college class where you have like ten different works 137 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: that you're gonna read, when's a thousand pages long. Um. 138 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: But we had this abridgment where all of the chapters 139 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: that we were reading were from the earlier parts of 140 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: the book. So all of the chapters that we were 141 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: reading were about Genji and his fair ers and just 142 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: the very schevy part of abducting a ten year old 143 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: and grooming her to be his wife. UM. And we 144 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: were all like, we don't like this guy. He seems 145 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: like a player. He's you know, breaking all these women's 146 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: hearts and causing all this emotional wreckage. Um. And our 147 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: professor was like, yeah, this was like this was the 148 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: addition of the book we had available to us. It's 149 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: unfortunate that it only includes material from the early chapters 150 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: of the book, because you only see like, uh, player Genji. 151 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 1: You don't see old sad Genji from later on, when 152 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: it's like all of his youthful pursuit of all of 153 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: these women has like caught up with him and he 154 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: is sad and wistful and wants to just become a 155 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: monk and leave the world. Um, And we were all 156 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: like we have we don't really care, though we still 157 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: think he's greats. I love that you have such an 158 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 1: academic introduction to that and the Pillow Book, because my 159 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: introduction of the Pillow Book is from the nine Peter 160 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: Greenaway film of the same name, which I don't know 161 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: if you've seen it, I don't think so. Um it 162 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: is say Shanagon is listed as one of the writers 163 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: along with Peter Greenaway, but it is not. Um. It 164 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: stars Vivian and Ean McGregor, and it's a really beautiful film. 165 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: If you love Peter Greenaway, which I do, he is 166 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 1: not for everyone. So I then after seeing it was like, wait, 167 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: this is it lists like a writer from hundreds of 168 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: years ago as one of the writers. So I looked 169 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: it up from there and that's how I got introduced 170 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: to that similarly, not entirely similarly, but the Tale of 171 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: Genji I got introduced to because I was working as 172 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: an acquisition specialist in a college library and we got 173 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: a CD ROM version of the Tale of Genji that 174 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: was a really beautifully designed thing that was intended to 175 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: like be a new way that you could take English 176 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: speaking students through that whole thing. But it became very 177 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: apparent to me, even with my limited knowledge of the 178 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: original text, that this particular piece of education seemed to 179 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: focus a lot more on explaining like the hierarchy and 180 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 1: the court culture part of it, and they really skipped 181 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 1: over a lot of like the sexual interludes and the 182 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: romantic part of it, because I don't know how you 183 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 1: would do that on a CD rum in the early 184 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:24,439 Speaker 1: two thousand's without it being really really Yeah. But yeah, 185 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: So I came up both of these from a very 186 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: pop culture place, and then just because I was curious 187 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: and did my own reading, learned about them, but not 188 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: from a literature class. Yeah, it seems like, um, when 189 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: I was researching the one about the Pillow Book that 190 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: came out how those years ago, at this point I 191 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: kept finding YouTube videos from an anime, and I was like, 192 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to check that out at some point, but 193 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: I never. I never did, so maybe I'll manage to 194 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: do that at some point. Anyway, I'm glad I finally 195 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: got to move for up to the top of the list, 196 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: because she's been on that list literally since day one, 197 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: and at various points people have been like, Hey, could 198 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: you do an episode on her? And every time I've 199 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: been like, Ah, is it too similar to the thing, 200 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: And then I was like, Oh, it's been so long, 201 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter at this point. It might have been 202 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: weird if we had done them back to back, but 203 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: not not a big deal. There is a strange odd 204 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: satisfaction with finally getting a topic off your list that's 205 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: been there for years. Yep, Yep for sure. Okay, Taylor 206 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: Genjie check Yep. Thanks so much for listening to our 207 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: casual Friday everybody. Stuff You Missed in History Class is 208 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. For 209 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I Heart 210 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 211 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: favorite shows.