Speaker 1: Well, let me first start off by saying, Happy New Year.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you. Senator,
Speaker 1: Happy New Year's to you and your family. It's nice
Speaker 1: we had a little time off during the holidays, and
Speaker 1: I know you got to spend some great time with
Speaker 1: your family and and your kids, and I know you
Speaker 1: got some pretty good Christmas gifts as well. So Merry
Speaker 1: Christmas to you your family, and happy New Year as well.
Speaker 1: We have got a lot to chat about that has
Speaker 1: been happening, and let's start with this story Democrats trying
Speaker 1: to kick Donald Trump off the ballot in Colorado, in Maine,
Speaker 1: and this has been unfolding really over the holidays.
Speaker 2: Well, Ben, good to be back with you. Happy New Year.
Speaker 2: I hope you had a wonderful Christmas and a wonderful
Speaker 2: New Years. And we are starting now twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: I will say, looking back over twenty twenty three, what
Speaker 2: an absolute dumpster fire of a year, A what a
Speaker 2: mess it has been, What a disaster it's been on
Speaker 2: the southern border, an an absolute assault it's been on
Speaker 2: the rule of law. Donald Trump indicted four different times
Speaker 2: as Democrats engage in law fair, trying to fight through
Speaker 2: the courts what they cannot beat at the at the
Speaker 2: ballot box. I have to say the decisions in Colorado
Speaker 2: and Maine are the most grotesque assaults on democracy that
Speaker 2: I have ever seen in my life. You know, there
Speaker 2: is an irony. There's an irony with leftists. They always, always,
Speaker 2: always accuse you of the thing it is they are
Speaker 2: in fact doing. It has become this ostentatious virtue signal
Speaker 2: for anyone on the left to say, we must defend democracy,
Speaker 2: we must save democracy. Usually they flick their hair back
Speaker 2: and let the wind blow their hair in the bit
Speaker 2: as they are saving democracy. And yet we see partisan
Speaker 2: democrats directly attacking democracy. What is democracy? Democracy is a
Speaker 2: process through which the people vote and their wishes are enacted. Now,
Speaker 2: technically speaking, we're not a democracy. We're a democratic republic.
Speaker 2: In other words, the voters vote to elect representatives, hence
Speaker 2: the republic. But we are built on democratic principles, which
Speaker 2: is that the will of the people is sovereign. And
Speaker 2: what the Democrats have done in both Colorado and in
Speaker 2: Maine is said, to hell with the voters. We don't
Speaker 2: care about democracy, We don't care what the voters want.
Speaker 2: We know better. We hate Donald Trump so much the
Speaker 2: voters are not allowed to vote for him. That is
Speaker 2: it's never happened in our nation's history. It is a
Speaker 2: level of partisanship and weaponization and cynicism and abuse of
Speaker 2: power that is truly unprecedented, and it is also legally frivolous.
Speaker 2: I'm here to tell you right now, these decisions will
Speaker 2: be reversed. I put the odds at these decisions being
Speaker 2: reversed at one hundred percent. When we get to November
Speaker 2: of this year, if Donald Trump is the Republican nominee,
Speaker 2: his name will be on the ballot. Donald Trump's name
Speaker 2: will be on the primary ballot in every state, and
Speaker 2: no partisan Democrat is going to succeed in removing his
Speaker 2: name from the ballot and keeping it off. That is
Speaker 2: my prediction right now. I believe the US Supreme Court
Speaker 2: will take this case. I think they will overturn, they
Speaker 2: will reverse the Colorado decision. I think they will do
Speaker 2: so swiftly, and I think there is a very real
Speaker 2: possibility they do so unanimously. I hope they do so unanimously.
Speaker 2: I don't know if the left leaning judges on the
Speaker 2: Court would be willing to do so, but they should.
Speaker 2: It would be the right thing to do. And I
Speaker 2: think there's a reasonable prospect that we get a nine
Speaker 2: zero decision from the US Supreme Court reversing the Colorado
Speaker 2: decision and making clear that if you don't like Donald Trump,
Speaker 2: the answer is go beat him at the ballot box,
Speaker 2: not go to your friendly Democrat in your pocket secretary
Speaker 2: of state, just to pull them off the ballot and
Speaker 2: prevent the voters from voting for him.
Speaker 3: Which brings us to Maine.
Speaker 1: And let's talk about Main's Democratic secretary of state.
Speaker 3: You talk about being friendly.
Speaker 1: She actually tweeted out at one point back in January
Speaker 1: the fourth of twenty twenty two, so two years ago.
Speaker 1: In essence, the fundamental right of any American citizen to
Speaker 1: vote freely, fairly, and to have their vote counted is
Speaker 1: the premise of our democracy. The Constitution and the Bill
Speaker 1: of Rights are not values to be compromised away, and
Speaker 1: that is what she tweeted out. Now, what's shocking about
Speaker 1: this is we've now found out more about this Democrat
Speaker 1: secretary of State number one. She is not elected by
Speaker 1: the people, She's elected by the legislature. And explain a
Speaker 1: little bit about because there's been some people that have
Speaker 1: been saying, like this woman wasn't even elected by the people.
Speaker 3: That's how they do it in Maine.
Speaker 1: But she also the reason why she said she wanted
Speaker 1: to take Trump off the ballot was mainly from what
Speaker 1: she described in the filings as from being from utube videos.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Look, different states select secretaries of state differently. Some states
Speaker 2: the voters elect the secretary of states. Other states, in Texas,
Speaker 2: for example, the governor appoints the secretary of state, so
Speaker 2: the secretary of State in Texas is not elected. The
Speaker 2: secretary of state is appointed by the governor. In Maine,
Speaker 2: they have a rather odd hybrid system where the state
Speaker 2: legislature elects the secretary of state. Now, the legislature elected her.
Speaker 2: Shenna Bellows is her name. She's a Democrat. She's a
Speaker 2: partisan Democrat. She was the executive director of the ACLU
Speaker 2: in Maine. And actually, interestingly, she's not a lawyer. She
Speaker 2: doesn't have a law degree, she had never been to
Speaker 2: law school. And she purported to make a definitive determination
Speaker 2: of what the Constitution of what the fourteenth Amendment, Section
Speaker 2: three means, what it holds, and make a determination that
Speaker 2: Donald Trump has engaged in insurrection. That decision will not stand.
Speaker 2: She didn't follow anything resembling due process that any court
Speaker 2: of law would recognize. And I think what the next
Speaker 2: step will be that this is being challenged in Maine
Speaker 2: state court, it goes to a main trial court initially,
Speaker 2: and then it could be appealed to the main Supreme Court.
Speaker 2: I think there's a very good chance the main trial
Speaker 2: court reverses it. I don't know the particular judge it
Speaker 2: will be in front of, but the right decision would
Speaker 2: be to reverse of the main trial court. But what's
Speaker 2: really going to decide this is the Colorado appeal. If
Speaker 2: I am right, that the Supreme Court will take the
Speaker 2: Colorado case and they will decide it quickly, that determination
Speaker 2: is going to be conclusive on me as well.
Speaker 1: So when you look at where this is moving forward,
Speaker 1: and I want to talk to politics of this for
Speaker 1: a second, what this seems to be is Democrats moving
Speaker 1: to what I describe as phase two of their radical
Speaker 1: you know, get rid of our constitution, our freedoms, our democracy,
Speaker 1: as she described, quoting her the fundamental rights of any
Speaker 1: American citizens to vote freely, fairly and have their vote counted.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: It is the core premise of our democracy. Except if
Speaker 1: you go back twenty sixteen, Senator, look at what Democrats did.
Speaker 1: They try to overthrow the will of the people by
Speaker 1: impeaching Donald Trump using a dossier they knew was created
Speaker 1: by the Democrats. It was paid for by the Democrat
Speaker 1: National Committee and paid for by Hillary Clinton's campaign.
Speaker 3: That's a fact, undisputed fact. We know that now.
Speaker 1: In fact, they were even fined for misappropriating money with
Speaker 1: how they paid for that dossier. Democrats that were trying
Speaker 1: to impeach the president then because they didn't like who
Speaker 1: the people chose, knew they were impeaching the president off
Speaker 1: of off of basically a story that they created out
Speaker 1: of thin air. So now that didn't work, they move
Speaker 1: on to phase two, which is, all right, well, we
Speaker 1: can't trust that you're going to pick the candidate that
Speaker 1: we approve of, so we're going to take that candidate
Speaker 1: off the ballot. This seems to be phase two of
Speaker 1: this juncture now, which is all right, forget the past,
Speaker 1: the impeachment. We're going to get rid of your guy
Speaker 1: even before you have a chance to vote for him.
Speaker 1: And this is happening in dozens of states around the
Speaker 1: country they're looking to do the same thing. How concerning
Speaker 1: should we be as voters that this is literally that
Speaker 1: slippery slope.
Speaker 2: Look that this is utterly brazen, and it's the full
Speaker 2: manifestation of a pattern that has been unfolding for years.
Speaker 2: And as you know, I talk about it at length
Speaker 2: in the last two books I wrote. I wrote a
Speaker 2: year ago, I wrote a book called Justice Corrupted, How
Speaker 2: the Left has weaponized the legal system. That breaks down
Speaker 2: in detail how the radical left turned our legal system
Speaker 2: into an offensive weapon to try to attack their political
Speaker 2: opponents and destroy their political opponents. And then my latest
Speaker 2: book that just came out in the last couple of
Speaker 2: months is called Unwoke, How to Defeat Cultural Marxism in America,
Speaker 2: and it likewise describes how the cultural Marxists have seized
Speaker 2: the institutions of our government, the institutions of culture, journalism, education,
Speaker 2: colleges K through twelve, education, entertainment, sports, science, it goes
Speaker 2: through all of them. If you look at government under
Speaker 2: Barack Obama, we saw the federal government weaponized against the
Speaker 2: enemies of the White House. Under Barack Obama, the IRS
Speaker 2: began attacking conservatives and tea party groups. Under Barack Obama,
Speaker 2: the FBI, of the DOJ, and the CIA began to
Speaker 2: be weaponized to attack their political enemies. But then when
Speaker 2: Donald Trump got elected, it shattered the brains of leftists.
Speaker 2: They did not imagine that that was even remote possible.
Speaker 2: It could not happen. They were certain that Hillary was
Speaker 2: going to be anointed, was going to be coronated, and
Speaker 2: they would continue that their control, their stranglehold on the
Speaker 2: federal government when the voters had something different to say
Speaker 2: about it. When the voter said no, we don't want
Speaker 2: that and elected Donald Trump, we saw for four years.
Speaker 2: You want to talk about assaults on democracy, we saw
Speaker 2: number one right after the election, multiple Democrats object to
Speaker 2: the certification of Donald Trump. So, by the way, every Democrat,
Speaker 2: every media person who says it's an insurrection, it's an
Speaker 2: insurrection because they objected to the election ignores the fact
Speaker 2: that the Democrats had objected in two thousand and one,
Speaker 2: had objected in two thousand and five, and had objected
Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen. Every time a Republican had been elected
Speaker 2: in the two thousands, Democrats had objected. They'd done the
Speaker 2: same thing, but not only that, and By the way,
Speaker 2: one of the objectors was Jamie Raskin, ironically one of
Speaker 2: the impeachment managers. He himself was claiming that it was
Speaker 2: an insurrection when he had in fact objected on the
Speaker 2: floor of the House to Trump's first election as president.
Speaker 2: But if you look at what the DOJ and the
Speaker 2: FBI and the CIA and the alphabet soup of a
Speaker 2: federal agencies did when Trump was president, it was an
Speaker 2: assault on democracy. Why is that, Well, democracy says that
Speaker 2: the voters get to choose, and the voters elected Donald
Speaker 2: Trump in twenty sixteen. But yet the hard partisans who
Speaker 2: had burrowed into senior career positions at DOJ and the
Speaker 2: FBI and the rest of the agencies, they hated Trump,
Speaker 2: and they spent four years trying to undermine, trying to attack,
Speaker 2: trying to destroy the democratically elected president of the United States.
Speaker 2: That is an assault on democracy. That is reflecting a
Speaker 2: contempt for democratic values. That is saying, I, the career bureaucrat,
Speaker 2: know better who the president should be than the pesky voter,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to abuse my government power to try
Speaker 2: to destroy the officeholder that the voters elected. Well, that
Speaker 2: angry hateful lashing out that we saw in twenty seventeen,
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, that we saw with
Speaker 2: Russia Russia Russia, that we saw with the Steele dossier,
Speaker 2: that we saw with the relentless attack. The newest manifestation
Speaker 2: is what is happening in Colorado and what is happening
Speaker 2: in Maine. If you look at Colorado, the Colorado Supreme
Speaker 2: Court has seven members, all Democrats. They've been appointed by
Speaker 2: Democrat governors in Colorado. Interestingly, it was a four to
Speaker 2: three decision from the Colorado Supreme Court. The four justices
Speaker 2: who were in the majority none of them went to
Speaker 2: school in Colorado. They all went to Harvard and Yale.
Speaker 2: The three justices who went to law school in Colorado
Speaker 2: all dissented, and it shows you something about just how
Speaker 2: radicalized the elite schools been. Actually, one of those four
Speaker 2: justices is a woman I went to law school with.
Speaker 2: I was on the law review with her. I knew
Speaker 2: her well, she was a partisan Democrat then. But I
Speaker 2: got to say where she and her three other liberal
Speaker 2: justices are now is breathtaking, because they are saying, we
Speaker 2: don't care what the voters want in Colorado. Secretary of
Speaker 2: State in Maine is saying, I don't care what the
Speaker 2: voters want in Maine. I hate Trump so much you
Speaker 2: cannot vote for him. That has no precedent in our
Speaker 2: nation's history.
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Speaker 1: seven to two Patriot. You look at these these moving
Speaker 1: forward and continuing to assault on our democracy. It brings
Speaker 1: me to phase three. And you warned about this in
Speaker 1: your book. You alluded to it a second ago. But
Speaker 1: I want to dive into this. More Democrats and they
Speaker 1: don't get their win election day, then they try to
Speaker 1: impeach a conservative. Then if then another can it comes
Speaker 1: out they find threatening. Now they're just going to try
Speaker 1: to take them off the ballot. If that doesn't work
Speaker 1: and the Supreme Court, you know, shuts it down nine
Speaker 1: to zero or eight to one or whatever seven to two,
Speaker 1: then I think we can all agree Stage three would
Speaker 1: be okay. Well, the next time we have a chance
Speaker 1: to pack that court, which is what you warned about
Speaker 1: in your book. Then we're just going to pack the
Speaker 1: court until we get the votes we need so then
Speaker 1: we can kick people off ballots anywhere we went to
Speaker 1: in America.
Speaker 2: Am I crazy to think that's where we're going. You're
Speaker 2: not crazy, and it is exactly where we're going. The Democrats,
Speaker 2: they believe the ends justify the means. They have convinced
Speaker 2: themselves Donald Trump is Hitler, and therefore, in order to
Speaker 2: stop Hitler, anything, anything, anything is justified and destroying norms,
Speaker 2: destroying the principle that the voters decide elections, that's perfectly
Speaker 2: okay from their perspective. Destroying the rule of law, destroying
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court. Look, you've seen Merrick Garland and the
Speaker 2: Department of Justice and Democrats in the Senate wage war
Speaker 2: on the US Supreme Court, trying to delegitimize the court,
Speaker 2: trying to destroy trust because they don't like the rulings
Speaker 2: coming from the court, and it's perfectly acceptable. They apparently
Speaker 2: have no compunction, No tiny voice in them says, well,
Speaker 2: maybe our country is worse off. They don't have that voice,
Speaker 2: they don't respond to it. Instead, they're willing to do
Speaker 2: whatever it takes because they they're convinced with a messianic
Speaker 2: zeal It's a zealotry that is reminiscent of the fervor
Speaker 2: of a religious zealate, of a fanatic. It has become
Speaker 2: their life purpose to hate and attack Donald Trump and
Speaker 2: to destroy every institution in America if necessary, to stop
Speaker 2: Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: When this news broke of Main's top elective official removing
Speaker 1: Trump from the twenty twenty four primary ballot, the shocking
Speaker 1: part was in the devil in the details of the
Speaker 1: decision on why they decided to do it. They of
Speaker 1: course said, oh, what was January the sixth insurrection? But
Speaker 1: they actually cited YouTube videos, which is one of the
Speaker 1: reasons want to kick him off the ballot. And even
Speaker 1: on CNN they couldn't get this past their own commentators
Speaker 1: who said this listen carefully.
Speaker 4: An interesting discussion, an interesting take from the main Secretary
Speaker 4: of State. Here, the fourteenth Amendment, section three says in
Speaker 4: playing texts that if you shall have engaged in insurrection,
Speaker 4: you can't be in office. She takes that to mean
Speaker 4: that if she determines a Donald Trump engage in insurrection,
Speaker 4: he can't be on the main primary ballot. Is it
Speaker 4: that simple.
Speaker 3: No, it's not that simple.
Speaker 5: So clearly Section three of the Fourteenth Amendment says, engage
Speaker 5: in insurrection, you're out.
Speaker 3: We all have that.
Speaker 5: The complicated part, and where we are going to see
Speaker 5: this play out in the courts is who gets to
Speaker 5: decide and buy what process. Now it's important to know.
Speaker 5: And in the ruling the Secretary of State we just
Speaker 5: heard from says she's basically following the same legal reasoning
Speaker 5: as the Colorado Supreme Court did last week. And she
Speaker 5: says in her ruling, if this gets struck down in Colorado,
Speaker 5: we're out of luck too. So she's facing it on
Speaker 5: the same legal argument. Let me sort of lay out
Speaker 5: the arguments both sides, and by the way, it's worth saying,
Speaker 5: we're all theorizing here, we're in legally unknown territory. The
Speaker 5: argument against is, first of all, the Fourteenth Amendment, Section
Speaker 5: five says Congress has the authority to pass laws to
Speaker 5: implement this. They did, they passed the criminal law. And
Speaker 5: the argument is that means Congress, not the States. But
Speaker 5: perhaps and this is the argument that the main secretary
Speaker 5: of State in Colorado made, the states can do it too.
Speaker 5: If that's true. Then Section two. Question two is we're
Speaker 5: the processes? Were these hearings fair? Did they comport with
Speaker 5: due process? And I think there's a question there with
Speaker 5: regard to what Maine did because if you look at
Speaker 5: the hearing, and she details us in the ruling, they
Speaker 5: heard from one fact witness, a law professor. She based
Speaker 5: her ruling on a lot of documents, but also YouTube clips.
Speaker 1: I mean, senator, also YouTube clips and one one witness
Speaker 1: who is a law professor. I'm going to gotten a
Speaker 1: limb here and say it's probably a liberal law professor
Speaker 1: they found to make the argument. And so now that's
Speaker 1: enough that we can just say, yep, you can't vote
Speaker 1: for you the candidate you want to choose that the
Speaker 1: Republican Party chooses, because we think it's a threat to
Speaker 1: the Democratic parties. So therefore you don't have the option.
Speaker 1: Like this is the world we live in now in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Four, you know. And it's interesting that that legal commentator
Speaker 2: on CNN is very liberal, but even he is saying
Speaker 2: this is ridiculous. Look the text of the fourteenth Amendments,
Speaker 2: Section three, here's what it says. It says, quote, no
Speaker 2: person shall be a senator or representative in Congress, or
Speaker 2: elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office
Speaker 2: civil or military under the United States or under any State,
Speaker 2: who having previously taken an oath as a member of Congress,
Speaker 2: or as an officer of the United States, or as
Speaker 2: a member of any State legislature, or as an executive
Speaker 2: or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution
Speaker 2: of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or
Speaker 2: rebellion against the same, or given aid and comfort to
Speaker 2: the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of
Speaker 2: two thirds of each House, remove such disability. Now, this
Speaker 2: was passed right in the wake of the Civil War,
Speaker 2: and it was designed to stop people who had fought
Speaker 2: the Confederate Army from serving in government office. That if
Speaker 2: you had been part of an army waging war a
Speaker 2: civil war. Look, at the end of the day, the
Speaker 2: Civil War killed over six hundred thousand Americans. It was
Speaker 2: a war that waged on for four years. It was
Speaker 2: the bloodiest war in American history. And the fourteenth Amendment
Speaker 2: concluded if you were a Confederates soul, you were not
Speaker 2: going to be a senator, a congressman. You were not
Speaker 2: going to be president. You were not going to be
Speaker 2: a federal officer. That was written into law. Now it is.
Speaker 2: It defies reason, logic, and facts to suggest that Donald
Speaker 2: Trumps standing up and giving a speech on January sixth,
Speaker 2: in which he urged people to be peaceful not to
Speaker 2: be violent, was somehow equivalent to leading a brigade in
Speaker 2: the Civil War and fighting a war, by the way, insurrection.
Speaker 2: So the central question here is whether or not Donald
Speaker 2: Trump is guilty of engaging an insurrection. Now, we don't
Speaker 2: entirely have to theorize on this. Actually, the United States
Speaker 2: Congress has defined insurrection. So there is a statute. The
Speaker 2: statute is eighteen usc. Section two three eight three. It
Speaker 2: is entitled rebellion or insurrection. Here's the definition of it.
Speaker 2: Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any
Speaker 2: rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States
Speaker 2: or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort there too,
Speaker 2: shall be fined under this title or in prison not
Speaker 2: more than ten years, or both, and shall be incapable
Speaker 2: of holding any office under the United States. So this
Speaker 2: is defined, and it's defined specifically with regard to the
Speaker 2: Fourteenth Amendment that if you're convicted of this under the
Speaker 2: terms of the statute, you're disqualified under the fourteenth Amendment. Now,
Speaker 2: interestingly enough, Jack Smith is literally trying to throw the
Speaker 2: book at Donald Trump. He has brought two different indictments,
Speaker 2: one in Florida, one in DC. Jack Smith is javert.
Speaker 2: He is pursuing Jean Valjean, and he will not stop
Speaker 2: no matter what. Jack Smith is demonstrated that he is
Speaker 2: not constrained by the bounds of law when he went
Speaker 2: after Bob MacDonald, the Republican governor of Virginia, when he
Speaker 2: indicted him up destroying his political career. That ended up
Speaker 2: being reversed unanimously by the Supreme Court nine to nothing,
Speaker 2: actually eight to nothing because one of the justices was recused.
Speaker 2: But the fact that it was lawless did not stop
Speaker 2: Jack Smith. Well, you know what, Jack Smith has not
Speaker 2: indicted Donald Trump under eighteen USC. Section two three eighty three.
Speaker 2: He has not charged him with insurrection. Donald Trump is
Speaker 2: not charged with insurrection in any court of law anywhere
Speaker 2: in the country. And there is a reason even a
Speaker 2: rapidly partisan obsessed prosecutor like Jack Smith, even in an
Speaker 2: incredibly friendly venue like the District of Columbia with a
Speaker 2: very left wing judge and with a jury pool that
Speaker 2: voted ninety four percent Democrat. Even there, Jack Smith and
Speaker 2: his team no doubt concluded, we don't have the evidence
Speaker 2: to charge Trump with insurrection. Now what did the main
Speaker 2: secretary of state say?
Speaker 3: Ah?
Speaker 2: Evidence, schme evidence. I look at a YouTube video, I
Speaker 2: you know what. Gosh, everyone on TV says insurrection. It
Speaker 2: must be an insurrection because every Democrat I know screams
Speaker 2: insurrection when they look at Trump. It is a lawless determination.
Speaker 2: And that's why. That's one of the many reasons why
Speaker 2: I believe the Supreme Court will reverse the Colorado Supreme Court.
Speaker 2: And as I said, I think there's a very good
Speaker 2: chance they'll do so unanimously.
Speaker 1: All Right, So let's move into the politics and the
Speaker 1: timing of this year. We're very close now to getting
Speaker 1: into the primaries. We're talking about Iowa, New Hampshire, and
Speaker 1: South Carolina Center. You know this map and this calendar
Speaker 1: and how important it is when you ran for president.
Speaker 1: And this could linger on with this over Donald Trump's head,
Speaker 1: with state after state trying to kick him off the ballot.
Speaker 1: How long could we have to wait until the Supreme
Speaker 1: Court gets involved. And then how long would we have
Speaker 1: to wait for the ruling for this to come down?
Speaker 1: Are we weeks or months? How long could this? How
Speaker 1: does this play out the Supreme Court? Well, the appeal
Speaker 1: is already penning at the Supreme Court. So last week,
Speaker 1: last Wednesday, the Colorado Republican Party asked the Supreme Court
Speaker 1: to overturn the Colorado Supreme Court's decision so that the
Speaker 1: initial appeal papers have been filed. In the interim, Trump's
Speaker 1: name is on the ballot and in Colorado, and that
Speaker 1: was under the terms of the Colorado Supreme Court decision,
Speaker 1: which which is it? They stayed their own decision pending appeal.
Speaker 1: They recognized the massive consequences of it. So the primary
Speaker 1: in Colorado is on March fifth, and so right now
Speaker 1: Trump's name is on the March fifth ballot. With the
Speaker 1: appeal filed, the court could act exceptionally quickly. The Court
Speaker 1: could act in a matter of days or weeks. And
Speaker 1: there are times for emergency appeals that the Court's schedules
Speaker 1: are very expedited, briefing schedule, schedules, oral arguments, and issued
Speaker 1: a decision.
Speaker 2: I hope they do that. Look, there's a chance they
Speaker 2: take their time and let it lay out, because the
Speaker 2: Colorado Supreme Court decision is stayed, and so they could say, well, look,
Speaker 2: he's going to be on the ballot. So there's no
Speaker 2: urgency or exigency. And by the way, in Maine, there's
Speaker 2: a good chance the main courts overturned the main Secretary
Speaker 2: of State's decision. If that happens, then there is no
Speaker 2: immediate threat to the voters being denied the ability to
Speaker 2: elect the candidate of their choice. I hope the Court
Speaker 2: doesn't slow down or doesn't take their time doing it.
Speaker 2: I hope they resolve this quickly. I think it's important
Speaker 2: to have clarity nationally. But the court has the ability.
Speaker 2: There are times where it has briefed and heard argument
Speaker 2: and issued decisions within a matter of days, so it
Speaker 2: has the ability to move very quickly. During Bush versus Gore,
Speaker 2: during those thirty six days when we had multiple recounts
Speaker 2: in Florida, as your recall, I was part of the
Speaker 2: legal team that was litigating Bush versus Gore. I was
Speaker 2: down in Tallahassee representing George W.
Speaker 3: Bush.
Speaker 2: In those thirty six days, we went to the US
Speaker 2: Supreme Court twice and within that period briefed out the case,
Speaker 2: had oral argument, and had decisions two different times from
Speaker 2: the US Supreme Court within those thirty six days. So
Speaker 2: when the court wants to, it can move exceptionally fast.
Speaker 2: I would note also that between the two look in
Speaker 2: terms of the general election, the odds are not great
Speaker 2: that Colorado is going to be a swing state. Joe
Speaker 2: Biden won Colorado by about fourteen points last time, and
Speaker 2: so it's Colorado is not anticipated to be a swing
Speaker 2: state in November. Maine, interestingly enough, is so Maine has
Speaker 2: an unusual way of allocating its electoral votes. Maine has
Speaker 2: a total of four electoral votes, and two of them
Speaker 2: go to the winner of the state, and then one
Speaker 2: goes to the winner of one congressional district goes to
Speaker 2: the winner of another congressional district. So Maine has two
Speaker 2: congressional districts. What's interesting about that is, even though Maine
Speaker 2: has been a reliably Democrat state in presidential elections for
Speaker 2: some time, one of the two congressional districts in Maine
Speaker 2: quite regularly will vote for Republicans, and so Trump one
Speaker 2: one electoral vote out of Maine. He added one of
Speaker 2: the districts he won the other three he lost, and
Speaker 2: that could easily happen again. And listen, if this election
Speaker 2: was quite close, it could literally come down to that
Speaker 2: single electoral vote in Maine deciding the outcome. And so
Speaker 2: the decision in Maine is quite consequential. It's also consequential
Speaker 2: going forward. Do other states, in particular swing states make
Speaker 2: the same determination. Do you see bigger states a Pennsylvania,
Speaker 2: a Michigana, Wisconsin. Do you see states like that that
Speaker 2: are very much in play, that very much could go
Speaker 2: either way? Do you see them engage and try to
Speaker 2: follow this pattern? And if these left wing partisans were
Speaker 2: to succeed in removing Trump from the ballot, I think
Speaker 2: the risk would be very high that you would see
Speaker 2: other bigger and more consequential swing states following that pattern. Now,
Speaker 2: I don't think that's going to happen because they're not
Speaker 2: going to succeed. And by the way, there's an obvious
Speaker 2: escalation at some point. If the left weaponizes the legal
Speaker 2: system to such an extent that they try to remove
Speaker 2: the Republican nominee from the general election ballot, you are
Speaker 2: likely to see red states reciprocate and try to remove
Speaker 2: the Democrat nominee from the ballot that this can be
Speaker 2: a mutually assured destruction, which is one of the reasons
Speaker 2: I don't think there's any chance the Supreme Court allows
Speaker 2: this Colorado decision to go into effect because it undermines
Speaker 2: the ability of the voters to choose who they want
Speaker 2: as president, and that is as foundational to democracy in
Speaker 2: our country as anything there is.
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Speaker 1: on this, there's the political ramifications of this. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of conservative voters now that are very upset. I've
Speaker 1: heard from more people that are not necessarily big fans
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump that are now, like, the hell with this,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stand behind Donald Trump because this is just
Speaker 1: so egregious. Do you think the Democrats overplayed their hand
Speaker 1: here politically and the backfire could be catastrophic to them,
Speaker 1: or by the time we get to election, will a
Speaker 1: lot of this just be forgotten.
Speaker 2: Well, I think politically this benefits Trump in the primary.
Speaker 2: You know, rewind go back to our early podcasts last
Speaker 2: year when the first Trump indictment, when the Alvin Bragg
Speaker 2: indictment came down, You and I went on air, and
Speaker 2: right after that indictment, I went on this podcast and
Speaker 2: I told the podcast viewers, I said, Donald Trump will
Speaker 2: go up ten points in the polls as a result
Speaker 2: of this. That was a prediction I made immediately after
Speaker 2: the indictment came down. A week later, Donald Trump was
Speaker 2: up ten points in the polls, and by the way,
Speaker 2: he's never come down since. If you look at a
Speaker 2: year ago, the poll numbers had a much more competitive
Speaker 2: race between Trump and Dessantus a year ago, and then
Speaker 2: the first indictment came, and then the second, and then
Speaker 2: the third, and then the fourth, and Trump's numbers went
Speaker 2: up and up and up, and everyone else's numbers went down.
Speaker 2: And I think one of the effects is in a
Speaker 2: Republican primary, people rallied around Trump. Look when the Colorado
Speaker 2: Supreme Court decision came down, all of Trump's opponents immediately
Speaker 2: denounced it, which you had to do.
Speaker 3: It.
Speaker 2: It was a lawless abuse of power. I also think
Speaker 2: the Democrats are quite fond of that. Every single Democrat
Speaker 2: in elected office wants Trump to be the nominee. But
Speaker 2: at the same time, so they are happy with helping
Speaker 2: Trump in the primary because that's the outcome they want
Speaker 2: in the general. Assuming this Colorado decision is overturned, assuming
Speaker 2: the main decision is overturned, it could backfire. You could
Speaker 2: see some independent swing voters get ticked off. In a
Speaker 2: state like Maine that has independence that might have some
Speaker 2: lasting legacy, in a state like Colorado that has some
Speaker 2: independence that might have some impact as well. I have
Speaker 2: not seen any evidence that this ABUSEI of power is
Speaker 2: hurting Democrats in a general election. It may be the case,
Speaker 2: but one of the challenges is that the media is
Speaker 2: so utterly corrupt that they're by and large not reporting
Speaker 2: on it. But I would tell listeners a verdict. Anytime
Speaker 2: you're talking with leftists who are arguing and they're trotting
Speaker 2: out language like we must save democracy, you know, it's
Speaker 2: a great opportunity to say, oh, save democracy, you mean
Speaker 2: like Colorado, like Maine, Like preventing the voters from actually
Speaker 2: voting for the candidate they want to vote for explain
Speaker 2: to me how exactly it's saving democracy to stop the
Speaker 2: voters from voting for the candidate they want to vote for.
Speaker 2: And I don't know of a leftist who can argue
Speaker 2: against that other than to just jabber, you know, Trump
Speaker 2: is evil, Trump is evil. Trump is evil, rather than
Speaker 2: actually engage in reason and logic. And so I'm not
Speaker 2: convinced this abuse of power will have a massive ish
Speaker 2: impact on turnout in November, but I do think it
Speaker 2: helps Trump in the primaries.
Speaker 3: It's going to be a very interesting twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: Obviously we are going cover it all for you here
Speaker 1: on Verdict, and Happy New Year to you and your family,
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Speaker 1: Will We are looking forward to bring you a lot
Speaker 1: of information. This is going to be a very active year,
Speaker 1: so thank you for spending time with us on your
Speaker 1: new year.
Speaker 3: Happy New Year to each and every one of your center.
Speaker 1: Happy New Year to you as well, and I know
Speaker 1: you want to say to all the listeners again, Happy
Speaker 1: New Years to them.
Speaker 2: Happy New Year, and May twenty twenty four be an
Speaker 2: extraordinary year for our nation. May God bless you and
Speaker 2: your family, and may God continue to bless the United
Speaker 2: States of America.
Speaker 3: We'll see you back here on Wednesday morning.