Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of five
Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. M Hey, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryan over there,
Speaker 1: and Jerry too. God I mentioned Jerry, and this is
Speaker 1: Stuff Today. You should know. I'm surprised you picked this topic. Why.
Speaker 1: I just I don't recognize you as a baseball guy.
Speaker 1: Oh man. Probably the first thing I was ever truly
Speaker 1: into was baseball cards, like getting the newest edition of
Speaker 1: like the Beckett's Price Guide. It was like one of
Speaker 1: my like the highlights of my month when whenever. Really yeah,
Speaker 1: for a few years I was super into baseball cards.
Speaker 1: It was funny. It is like I would still I'd
Speaker 1: watch baseball here there, but it was baseball cards in
Speaker 1: particular I really cared about. But yeah, I didn't really
Speaker 1: watch baseball. No, not really interesting, but I really loved
Speaker 1: baseball cards. Like. I wasn't like, oh I hate baseball,
Speaker 1: but I love baseball cards. I wasn't like complicating complex
Speaker 1: like that. It was just I didn't watch I liked
Speaker 1: baseball courts cards more than I liked baseball itself. That's
Speaker 1: all I got. You were you a Roberto Clemente fan. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean he was. He was playing his final years
Speaker 1: when I was being born, so I was not a fan.
Speaker 1: But I grew up obviously a Braves fan. But the
Speaker 1: in the mid nineteen seventies when I first started being
Speaker 1: a baseball fan, the Pittsburgh Pirates uh had a couple
Speaker 1: of really good teams, and he was, um, he was
Speaker 1: not long gone before those years, so his aura was
Speaker 1: still sort of ever present when I first started watching
Speaker 1: baseball and the Pirates when they had those great, awful
Speaker 1: uh stovetop flat caps. Oh I love those things. But yeah,
Speaker 1: on their own, just as an article of fashion, their horrid,
Speaker 1: But they were so unique and different too, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean they were. They rank among the worst uniforms,
Speaker 1: but you know, they're just very seventies. So yeah, they
Speaker 1: are super seventies. I think that's why I love I
Speaker 1: love them that at the seven. I think they were
Speaker 1: a throwback to the old old days. So that was
Speaker 1: the original person. But yeah, I don't think they like
Speaker 1: invented those caps. I think like some of the early
Speaker 1: baseball caps might have been flat like that. I might
Speaker 1: be wrong. I did not know that. Um. I think
Speaker 1: the Astros had the best seventies uniform of all, though
Speaker 1: they rank as one of the worst two. Oh, you're crazy,
Speaker 1: you have terrible tastes. I'm just talking about if you
Speaker 1: look up articles like worst Baseball Uniforms, ever, those are
Speaker 1: the ones that are listed. Okay, well, then you're not crazy.
Speaker 1: But whoever is writing those articles is crazy. I assume
Speaker 1: you're talking about the Orange Shooting Star. Yeah, with like
Speaker 1: red and blue, it's very pretty Okay, Okay, So anyway,
Speaker 1: we're not talking about fashion or uniforms or anything like that.
Speaker 1: Although this is not at all surprising that we even
Speaker 1: started on this. We're talking about one particular player who
Speaker 1: wore that funny looking Pirates hat, Roberto Clemente, who was
Speaker 1: so well, then what are we even doing that came
Speaker 1: along after him? What's the point of even doing this episode?
Speaker 1: Then if he never wore a hat. I'm just I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to get keep Pittsburgh people from emailing us.
Speaker 1: And then I appreciate that, Chuck, I appreciate it. Um.
Speaker 1: So we're we are talking about a Pittsburgh pirate, Roberto Clemente,
Speaker 1: and I knew like I knew of him. I was
Speaker 1: aware of him. I knew that he's one of the
Speaker 1: all time grades hadn't seen many plays of his, but um,
Speaker 1: like you can't. You can't be into baseball and not
Speaker 1: know about Roberto Clemente. But I definitely didn't know nearly
Speaker 1: as much about him as I do now. Um, thanks
Speaker 1: to this help from Rous, who apparently was raised to
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh Pirates fans, so he had plenty of good things
Speaker 1: to say about Roberto Clemente. Yeah, I think maybe we
Speaker 1: should take off a few of these career stats just
Speaker 1: to give you an idea of who we're talking about here. Uh,
Speaker 1: lifetime batting average of three seventeen, which if you if
Speaker 1: you don't know anything about baseball and you think a
Speaker 1: success rate oft is terrible. It is in almost everything
Speaker 1: else in life, but in baseball, that means you're a
Speaker 1: Hall of Famer. That's how hard it is to hit
Speaker 1: a baseball, right, I was gonna say, it really goes
Speaker 1: to show how difficult hitting baseball's in the major leagues are.
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, you hit three out of ten and
Speaker 1: you're great. I think I've said that before on the show.
Speaker 1: But he got twelve gold gloves in the right field, Uh,
Speaker 1: led the league in and batting the National League. That
Speaker 1: is four different times, two World Series Champion Chips, m
Speaker 1: v P nine MVP of the World Series, and seventy
Speaker 1: one where hebett at four or fourteen, which is just
Speaker 1: crazy good. I think sixteen time All Star just really
Speaker 1: just an amazing career um and obviously instant Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame career. Yeah, and he was really well known for
Speaker 1: his arm, like he would throw people out at home
Speaker 1: from right field, from the outfield, he could throw without
Speaker 1: a bounce, He could throw all the way in and
Speaker 1: beat a runner to third or to home, which is
Speaker 1: just amazing, and it was one of the things that
Speaker 1: really got people excited about him and watching him play.
Speaker 1: But like, if you look at just his stats, especially
Speaker 1: taken individually, like he was a great player and one
Speaker 1: of the all time grades, but statistically speaking, it doesn't
Speaker 1: necessarily show up, like there's plenty of people who have
Speaker 1: better stats. But one of the things that made Roberto
Speaker 1: clement Is such an amazing baseball player is he was
Speaker 1: one of the true what are called complete players or
Speaker 1: a five to a player where he could run, he
Speaker 1: could throw, he could bat, he could field, and like
Speaker 1: I keep I keep forgetting what the fifth one is,
Speaker 1: but he could he could like sell cracker Jack's in
Speaker 1: the stand like nobody's business as well. You've got an
Speaker 1: actual baseball guy on the other end of the call here,
Speaker 1: you know who me? Oh, okay, well, Mr baseball guy,
Speaker 1: if it's not selling cracker jacks, what's the fifth tool?
Speaker 1: Use me at your disposal. It's a hit for power
Speaker 1: and hit for average. So there's two hittings. That's the
Speaker 1: Oh well, whoever knows that? Nobody knows that you can't
Speaker 1: just use the same thing twice and call it five tools. Well, no,
Speaker 1: you can, because a lot of players can have a
Speaker 1: big boomstick, but they bat like two thirty. But if
Speaker 1: you can hit for average and hit for power, that's
Speaker 1: a big big deal. And if you can make the
Speaker 1: most exciting playing baseball to me, which is a right
Speaker 1: field to third base assist, then uh, I mean, there's
Speaker 1: nothing more thrilling to me. It's really amazing to see.
Speaker 1: For sure. It definitely more than even home plate for
Speaker 1: some reason, probably because it's further one of the other
Speaker 1: things that I think people loved about Roberto Clemente, and
Speaker 1: I think that made him such a true baseball player
Speaker 1: In a lot of people's eyes, at least in mind.
Speaker 1: But he was very well known for going after pitches
Speaker 1: that other people would have taken as a ball, clear
Speaker 1: balls well high and outside high and inside low and whatever.
Speaker 1: And he would go after him, and he would hit
Speaker 1: him a lot of the time, which is one reason
Speaker 1: why his batting average was so high, because he would
Speaker 1: go after those pitches that other people, um would just
Speaker 1: let go by, and then in hitting them, he would
Speaker 1: send him into places where you wouldn't expect him. Being
Speaker 1: a right handed bat or two hit so he could
Speaker 1: get to base pretty pretty um frequently too. He also
Speaker 1: was a fast runner, but he ran like he was
Speaker 1: out of his mind completely. Yeah, it's it's pretty fun
Speaker 1: to see him run. He would hit pitch outs, which,
Speaker 1: if you, like I said, if you don't know baseball,
Speaker 1: pitch out is when uh, there's somebody on first base
Speaker 1: and the catcher signals to the picture right before they
Speaker 1: throw that the gown first is gonna steal second, so
Speaker 1: they throw it completely out of the strikes. The catcher
Speaker 1: can stand up and catch it to make the throat
Speaker 1: a second and that's called the pitch out. It's not
Speaker 1: not even a real pitch. And he would swing and
Speaker 1: hit pitch outs, which is that's awesome. No one does that.
Speaker 1: It's unheard of. It's crazy. Yeah, that is crazy. So
Speaker 1: it suffice to say that Roberto Clemente is one of
Speaker 1: the great baseball players of all time because he had
Speaker 1: it all. But it was also, it turns out, but
Speaker 1: really great human being in a lot of ways too.
Speaker 1: He was an activist for civil rights during the civil
Speaker 1: rights era um and he was also a humanitarian as
Speaker 1: we'll see, like he really cared about other people and
Speaker 1: especially the plight of people who were less fortunate than
Speaker 1: him because he came from less fortunate circumstances to begin with,
Speaker 1: and he never forgot it. Like he was genuinely one
Speaker 1: of those guys who never let his fame get to
Speaker 1: his head. In the ways that he let his fame
Speaker 1: get to his head was in say animosity towards the
Speaker 1: sporting press or or saying like, you guys aren't giving
Speaker 1: me enough credit for being what a great player I am.
Speaker 1: That was separate. That was different when it came to
Speaker 1: people outside of baseball, just everyday people he was He
Speaker 1: was friends with those people throughout his whole career in life. Yes,
Speaker 1: and that is why Major League Baseball has honored him
Speaker 1: with the Roberto Clemente Award every year, which is given
Speaker 1: to the player that they feel best represents the humanitarian
Speaker 1: and humanitarian and philanthropic side of the game or outside
Speaker 1: the game rather. So quite quite an honor to have
Speaker 1: an award named after you. So I think we should
Speaker 1: take a break and then maybe go back to the
Speaker 1: beginning where and when he was born? Right after this? Alrighty, So,
Speaker 1: clement A was born in Puerto Rico. He's born in
Speaker 1: a little town called Carolina or Carolina, and it was
Speaker 1: sugarcane territory, sugarcane plantations, and his dad he was actually
Speaker 1: born Roberto Clemente Walker. His mother's maiden name was Walker
Speaker 1: and his father's name was clement A, so he used
Speaker 1: both until he got into baseball. And he was born
Speaker 1: in the middle of the Great Depression. Uh, the youngest
Speaker 1: of seven kids. Very tough way to be born into life,
Speaker 1: it was. But I mean, like if you're you know,
Speaker 1: if you come from a farming family, it makes sense,
Speaker 1: you know, oh, to have a lot of kids. Yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: And plus you have a lot of people with as
Speaker 1: you're growing up too. That is very true. So UM
Speaker 1: he his father was actually a foreman on a sugarcane plantation.
Speaker 1: UM and his mom was a huge influence in his life.
Speaker 1: I get the impression slightly more of an influence than
Speaker 1: his father was even But one of the things that
Speaker 1: um she had hoped for her son was that he
Speaker 1: would become uh, he would study engineering. I'm not sure why,
Speaker 1: but she wanted him to become an engineer, and he said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I really like playing baseball, like to the point where
Speaker 1: he and his brothers and his friends would make baseballs
Speaker 1: out of whatever was handy, Like they would put like
Speaker 1: stones in a sock, they would wad up paper tape,
Speaker 1: whatever they could get their hands on, and use whatever
Speaker 1: they could for a bat, and they would play baseball.
Speaker 1: And then as they got a little older and started
Speaker 1: to start playing in school, they had actual equipment to
Speaker 1: play with and they would just play constantly. I read
Speaker 1: he had ten home runs once in a game that
Speaker 1: started at eleven am and ended after six because they
Speaker 1: just kept playing and playing and playing like that's all
Speaker 1: he wanted to do was play baseball. And one of
Speaker 1: the reasons why is because he was really really good
Speaker 1: at it. From a very young age. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: the UM I have a theory about Caribbean players that
Speaker 1: they developed so well because so many of them don't
Speaker 1: have the right gear growing up, and especially back then,
Speaker 1: because if you're out there with a broomstick and a
Speaker 1: bottle cap, imagine what that does for your hand eye
Speaker 1: coordination to when you have like a real barrel of
Speaker 1: a baseball bat and a baseball Like it's no wonder
Speaker 1: that he could hit anything if you're growing up hitting
Speaker 1: bottle caps. And this wasn't just him, so many Dominican
Speaker 1: and Puerto Rican and Cuban um and now just all
Speaker 1: over the place. Uh, in the Caribbean players are coming
Speaker 1: up and they I think they make do with less
Speaker 1: as children and that really really hones their skills in
Speaker 1: ways that UM And you know, there's a baseball problem
Speaker 1: in America period like that far or far fewer kids
Speaker 1: are growing up playing baseball now and there's far fewer
Speaker 1: American baseball players now as a result. So one of
Speaker 1: the reason Chucky is super into baseball was because the
Speaker 1: whole island of Puerto Rico was into baseball at the time,
Speaker 1: like it had been exported a couple of decades before
Speaker 1: he was born. From Cuba to Puerto Rico. And then
Speaker 1: also by the time he was playing UM, the Puerto
Speaker 1: Rican UM baseball leagues had really developed into something substantial
Speaker 1: and they played their season in the winner. So if
Speaker 1: you were an American ballplayer, UM, you could play in
Speaker 1: your off season down in the Caribbean is specifically in
Speaker 1: Puerto Rico, among other places. But Puerto Rico is a
Speaker 1: really attractive place to play because they were so into it.
Speaker 1: There were so many teams and so many good players
Speaker 1: already down there. But one of the yeah, but one
Speaker 1: of the ways that it developed was from especially necro
Speaker 1: league players making their way down there in the off
Speaker 1: season to play UM. I've leave. Roberto Clemente actually played
Speaker 1: a season with Willie Mays himself, and Willie Mays had
Speaker 1: just led the New York Giants to the to win
Speaker 1: the World Series, and a couple of months later he
Speaker 1: was down in Puerto Rico playing during the winter the
Speaker 1: Winter leagues, because that's just what you did when you
Speaker 1: really wanted to play baseball, you go down to the
Speaker 1: Caribbean in the wintertime. Yeah, it's something that still happens,
Speaker 1: and it's mainly what you see now as players younger
Speaker 1: players play winter ball in Puerto Rico too. Uh, just
Speaker 1: hone their skills and to get better. It's not something
Speaker 1: you see a lot of veterans doing. Um. That's why
Speaker 1: it's pretty remarkable and I think shows the love of
Speaker 1: his country in the game that clement A played winter
Speaker 1: ball like every year through his career. Yeah. One of
Speaker 1: the reasons I saw that he did that was because
Speaker 1: he knew that most of the people who lived in
Speaker 1: Puerto Rico wouldn't be able to afford to go up
Speaker 1: to the States to watch him play, and he wanted
Speaker 1: to for them to be able to see him play,
Speaker 1: so he played every year. Another thing, it was, like
Speaker 1: you were saying, some of those younger players hone their
Speaker 1: skills UM down there. He kept his skills honed by
Speaker 1: playing winner ball like, he kept his swing loose, and
Speaker 1: he he didn't fall out of um shape ever, because
Speaker 1: he played baseball basically year round for eighteen twenty years. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So by the time he hits fourteen, he's recruited to
Speaker 1: play UM softball, which is a little weird, but it
Speaker 1: was a competitive softball team, uh, and then eventually an
Speaker 1: amateur baseball team and was making I think like forty
Speaker 1: bucks a week at seventeen playing amateur baseball in Puerto Rico.
Speaker 1: And this was, uh, you know, this was a time
Speaker 1: where you didn't have baseball scouts combing the Caribbean for
Speaker 1: the next new young talent. It was, it was it
Speaker 1: was a very new idea to go to the Caribbean
Speaker 1: defined players, and not a lot of teams. I mean,
Speaker 1: most teams were doing it a little bit, but they
Speaker 1: didn't have the robust scouting programs down there like they
Speaker 1: do now. And they sent, uh the Dodgers of Brooklyn
Speaker 1: Dodgers who very famously broke the color barrier um with
Speaker 1: Jackie Robinson and forty seven sent a scout name Al
Speaker 1: Kimpanis who went down to Puerto Rico saw nineteen year
Speaker 1: old Roberto Clemente in n and said, this guy is
Speaker 1: a five tool dynamo and we need we need to
Speaker 1: get him up here as fast as we can. And
Speaker 1: it wasn't I mean, that was actually kind of um
Speaker 1: insightful of him because it wasn't readily obvious, especially very
Speaker 1: early in his career. Um when he was playing with
Speaker 1: the UH where they called the Kendra Harris the crabbers
Speaker 1: um that he was just gonna be one of the
Speaker 1: all time greats because he swung at lots of pitches
Speaker 1: that other people wouldn't have swung at. He ran like
Speaker 1: he was crazy. Um, he was still finding his his skills.
Speaker 1: But to be able to see how great he was
Speaker 1: going to be UM at that young stage, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's a that's a credit to that. What was his name,
Speaker 1: camp Annis is um I for talent, Yeah, yeah. And
Speaker 1: he went on to be a lifelong baseball executive I
Speaker 1: think retired uh in shame for some like uh racial
Speaker 1: statements he made, but longtime baseball guy. But the Dodgers
Speaker 1: got Clemente. And there was a thing there was a
Speaker 1: rule back then from seven nineteen sixty five that they
Speaker 1: got rid of UH in sixty five for a very
Speaker 1: good reason. That was a little bit weird if you're
Speaker 1: a baseball fan today because it's so different now. But
Speaker 1: the rule was that if you were UH player that
Speaker 1: was signed for more than four thousand dollars as a
Speaker 1: signing bonus, then you had to be on a major
Speaker 1: league baseball roster for two full seasons UH and if
Speaker 1: you weren't, then you would become part of the rookie
Speaker 1: draft and clement A was signed for I think ten
Speaker 1: thousand dollars and I'm not sure why they signed him
Speaker 1: for that much. Maybe he wouldn't have gone for less,
Speaker 1: but it was not a great move. But because this
Speaker 1: meant that the Dodgers had to either take him to
Speaker 1: the major leagues for two full seasons, which was not
Speaker 1: a good call because most players in baseball start out
Speaker 1: in the minor leagues. In fact, all do. No one
Speaker 1: makes that jump straight to the major leagues, even if
Speaker 1: it's just like a cursory half season or so, but
Speaker 1: that's even really rare. But they they kept him in
Speaker 1: the minor leagues and their plan was to hide him
Speaker 1: and literally it would he would go like two months
Speaker 1: between starts because they didn't want they wanted to get
Speaker 1: those two seasons out of the way because after those
Speaker 1: two years, you could send someone to the minor leagues.
Speaker 1: But it didn't work. Um people saw him play and
Speaker 1: even though he didn't get to play much in the
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh Pirates really homed in on him right away. So yeah,
Speaker 1: the Pittsburgh Pirates were um lead. I think their GM
Speaker 1: was branch Rickey, who was the guy who had scouted
Speaker 1: Jackie Robinson and got him onto the Dodgers. Now he
Speaker 1: worked for the Pirates, so he ended up getting his
Speaker 1: hands on Roberto clement Inte and brought him to the Pirates.
Speaker 1: And so apparently when they found out, or when Clemente
Speaker 1: found out that he had been drafted by the Pirates,
Speaker 1: he was down in Puerto Rico, and he said later
Speaker 1: on that he had he didn't really know where Pittsburgh was.
Speaker 1: He he had been excited to play for New York
Speaker 1: because there's a big Puerto Rican community in New York,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden he sent off to Pittsburgh,
Speaker 1: doesn't know where it is and doesn't really know anybody.
Speaker 1: So this is kind of his his entree into UM America.
Speaker 1: But it actually was even rougher than that, because first
Speaker 1: he started out I guess on Pittsburgh's UM minor league
Speaker 1: team or and that's what it was. It was in
Speaker 1: spring training down in Fort Myers Beach, Florida, UM, and
Speaker 1: he came face to face with the stark reality of
Speaker 1: of basically Jim Crow South in UM the fifties. The
Speaker 1: first thing when he got to America, and he he
Speaker 1: was one of the reasons I said earlier he was
Speaker 1: a civil rights actors because he did not take very
Speaker 1: kindly to that and wrestled and railed against it from
Speaker 1: the outset. Yeah, he didn't. He didn't have any uh,
Speaker 1: he didn't have any frame of reference for this, Like
Speaker 1: he came from Puerto Rico, where this wasn't a thing.
Speaker 1: He um was of African descent, so two Americans. He
Speaker 1: was a black man to him, he was Puerto Rican.
Speaker 1: He was caught between two worlds and didn't understand why
Speaker 1: he had to stay in a different hotel or eating
Speaker 1: a different restaurant than his white UH teammates. And so
Speaker 1: this really upset him. And what upset him even as
Speaker 1: much was how his other black teammates on the team
Speaker 1: understood it and just basically had to take it because
Speaker 1: they were afraid if they caused a ruckus that they
Speaker 1: would be sent back down to the minors. And he
Speaker 1: was just like, you shouldn't be deferential, like what is
Speaker 1: going on in this country? And he he would speak
Speaker 1: to the sporting press about this stuff, and the sporting
Speaker 1: press either would just ignores comments about that or actually, yes,
Speaker 1: they would ignore his comments about it and they would
Speaker 1: just talk about whatever he said about the game. But
Speaker 1: then to kind of heap um the sense that he
Speaker 1: was an outsider and an outsider that wasn't respected because
Speaker 1: he was looked down upon because of his race and
Speaker 1: his his um origin. Um. They would quote him phonetically
Speaker 1: in the press. So when he said, you know, um,
Speaker 1: I think he said there was a headline that famously
Speaker 1: said like I get a hit, I feel good, but
Speaker 1: they spelled it out like I get heat h E
Speaker 1: E T is how they spelled hit, I feel good.
Speaker 1: That was a headline in the Pittsburgh newspapers after a
Speaker 1: really big game. And he found that extremely demeaning. Uh,
Speaker 1: and it actually really kind of framed the way that
Speaker 1: he felt about America. Um. Yeah, it framed how he
Speaker 1: felt about America. And don't forget like Puerto Rico was,
Speaker 1: you know, by this time, it was an American territory
Speaker 1: have been for quite a while, so people in Puerto
Speaker 1: Rico had long considered themselves American. People in America didn't
Speaker 1: consider Puerto Ricans, they considered them ethnic, and they Roberto
Speaker 1: Clemento was treated just like any other person from Puerto Rico,
Speaker 1: which was not very well back then. Yeah, So his
Speaker 1: reputation started to develop as a loner. It's a very
Speaker 1: moody player. The Pirates were a really bad team. I
Speaker 1: don't think we mentioned that UM at the time, just terrible,
Speaker 1: like one of the worst teams in baseball. He didn't
Speaker 1: catch on in his first few years there either. I
Speaker 1: think in his first five seasons he only hit over
Speaker 1: three hundred one time, and a lot of this was
Speaker 1: due to injury. He had a car accident that hurt
Speaker 1: his back, so his back was all jacked up for
Speaker 1: a while. UM he had other you know, injuries along
Speaker 1: the way, and he would he wasn't shy about talking
Speaker 1: about it. He would complain to the manager, he complain
Speaker 1: to the press about his injuries. And this baseball is
Speaker 1: still kind of this way, or most sports are actually
Speaker 1: is you kind of don't take that stuff public. You
Speaker 1: don't want to be seen as someone who UM either
Speaker 1: fake's injury because they don't want to play, or who
Speaker 1: just who complains about it too much. So he didn't
Speaker 1: have the best reputation early on because a lot of
Speaker 1: this stuff. Yeah, I know, he was thought to be
Speaker 1: a complainer, a hypochondriac, moody, UM, abrasive, egotistical, and that
Speaker 1: was something that like that's indisputable is the egotistical part,
Speaker 1: because he was he knew that he was playing better
Speaker 1: than he was getting credit for and it ticked him
Speaker 1: off because he knew the reason he wasn't getting credit
Speaker 1: for it was because he didn't act the way that
Speaker 1: the white sporting press expected him to act, and they
Speaker 1: they didn't like him for it, so they didn't really
Speaker 1: give him any any credit, and they actually withheld credit
Speaker 1: that was definitely due him for the way he was playing.
Speaker 1: But like you said, I mean it took a few
Speaker 1: years for him to start to catch on. But even
Speaker 1: after he did, which first began in the nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: World Series UM when the Pirates went from I don't
Speaker 1: know if they went for worst to first, but it
Speaker 1: was pretty close to something like that. Um, he was
Speaker 1: he was passed over as the World Series m v
Speaker 1: P UM I think like a lefty relief pitcher got
Speaker 1: more votes than he did, despite him being one of
Speaker 1: the clear heroes of that series. UM. And he really
Speaker 1: was not happy about that, and it really kind of
Speaker 1: created this this lifelong animosity with the sporting press that
Speaker 1: had already been brewing, but that one, to him showed
Speaker 1: that they were basically working against him at that point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think was a pretty bittersweet ear because it
Speaker 1: was his breakout ear. Uh. If this status right, Dave
Speaker 1: says his average never dropped below three hundred, then that
Speaker 1: means he that means he was hitting three hundred in
Speaker 1: Game one, which is pretty remarkable to start out that
Speaker 1: hot and to maintain it over the course of a year. Right,
Speaker 1: But if you've been playing winner ball in the Caribbean,
Speaker 1: like just just a couple of weeks before of that,
Speaker 1: it would make sense, you know. Yeah, and he uh,
Speaker 1: you know, they won the World Series, which is a big,
Speaker 1: big deal in Pittsburgh, but he didn't feel like he
Speaker 1: was getting his due, like you said, so he didn't
Speaker 1: go off and celebrate with his fans. Um, he kind
Speaker 1: of went off to himself. He was happy, but it said,
Speaker 1: uh the quote was unhappy but not but unconcerned with
Speaker 1: all the fanfare, is what a reporter said. And he
Speaker 1: just wanted to get back home to Puerto Rico so
Speaker 1: he could use his World Series bonus money to buy
Speaker 1: a house for his mother. And he was loved there,
Speaker 1: so you know, he wanted to get back to where
Speaker 1: he was um cherished and and he did. When he
Speaker 1: went back to Puerto Rico, he was a national hero
Speaker 1: and the press like followed him everywhere he went, and
Speaker 1: the kids loved him, and he bought a big Cadillac
Speaker 1: and mentored all the kids. So it's not like he
Speaker 1: went back like um like Elvis and just sort of
Speaker 1: lived high on the hog, like he did, go back
Speaker 1: a hero, but he really really got involved with the
Speaker 1: community right away. Yeah, he kept playing. He would mentor
Speaker 1: little kids who were um learning to play sports, and
Speaker 1: that actually became one of his dreams. Is he wanted
Speaker 1: to um make enough money and get big enough to
Speaker 1: build a sports complex of sports city or Sad de Portez.
Speaker 1: Not bad um if I compare myself on the back
Speaker 1: for that one where kids could learn to um play.
Speaker 1: But also you know that, like you didn't have much
Speaker 1: of a role model, is the kind of place you
Speaker 1: could find a role model too, and not just play baseball,
Speaker 1: but also play maybe basketball or whatever sports um you
Speaker 1: wanted to play. And that I think that that was
Speaker 1: at the very least on his mind back then, if
Speaker 1: not like one of his stated goals in his life.
Speaker 1: By the time roll around he went back home. Yeah, absolutely, Um,
Speaker 1: he got married in sixty four to Vera Zabala, and Um,
Speaker 1: she was from his hometown there in Puerto Rico. They
Speaker 1: had three kids, and he was very insistent that all
Speaker 1: his kids be born in Puerto Rico, which they were.
Speaker 1: And I think one of his sons, I think Junior
Speaker 1: even played baseball, uh and then ended up being an announcer.
Speaker 1: I don't think. I mean obviously he was. Um, he
Speaker 1: never achieved like what his father did. But it's pretty
Speaker 1: imagine tough to grow up the child of Roberto Clemente.
Speaker 1: It's like being Michael Jordan's son or whatever. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: his his So he had Roberto Jr. There's also Louis
Speaker 1: Roberto and Roberto Enrique. Those are his three sons names
Speaker 1: kind of like George Foreman so so um by the time.
Speaker 1: So nineteen sixties, like you said, that was his breakout year.
Speaker 1: He got married in nineteen sixty four. Um, and when
Speaker 1: he was down there in Puerto Rico. One one thing
Speaker 1: I want to say, um that I saw that a
Speaker 1: lot of people kind of overlook is he played winner
Speaker 1: ball almost every year. But there was one year, I
Speaker 1: believe in nineteen fifty eight where he he didn't play
Speaker 1: winter balling. Insteady enlisted in the U. S. Marines Reserves,
Speaker 1: and that's how we spent the winner and he ended
Speaker 1: up spending the next six years as a Marine reserve,
Speaker 1: which is something that very frequently gets overlooked, especially from
Speaker 1: Americans who really don't think of Puerto Rico as you know,
Speaker 1: a territory or fifty first state. Like, he became a
Speaker 1: US Marine while he was an up and coming baseball star,
Speaker 1: and then even after he was a baseball star, he
Speaker 1: remained a Marine until apparently one time, um, the I
Speaker 1: think the nineteen sixty four World Series, um coincided with
Speaker 1: the training exercise in the the Marines were like, you're
Speaker 1: you're honorably discharged, go play the World Series. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: he's in the Marine Sports Hall of Fame, which I
Speaker 1: didn't even know was a thing. Oh no, I didn't either,
Speaker 1: but it makes sense. I think he's the only player
Speaker 1: in there. That's right, that's uh, surely there's but the
Speaker 1: rock was in there. Should we take a break? Probably?
Speaker 1: All right, we'll take a break and talk a little
Speaker 1: bit more about the game of Roberto Clemente right after this. Okay, Chuck,
Speaker 1: so we haven't already said that. Um, he was a
Speaker 1: five tool player, a complete player. UM, and I mean
Speaker 1: you you, I think I have an understanding of what
Speaker 1: made is his play so amazing? Um? So what made
Speaker 1: his play so amazing? I'm I'm laying on my baseball resource. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean he was he was built for the game.
Speaker 1: He was you never lift never lifted weights in his life.
Speaker 1: But he was sort of a perfectly chiseled specimen of
Speaker 1: a baseball player. UM. Very very handsome, which has nothing
Speaker 1: to do with being a good baseball player. But I
Speaker 1: thought I thought I'd throw that in. It moves those
Speaker 1: cracker jacks, he sure does. So. Uh. He was just
Speaker 1: very fluid, like aside from his base running, like you
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, it was kind of crazy. I think one
Speaker 1: sports reporter said it looked more like he was fleeing
Speaker 1: than running. Um, he just you'd have to see him run.
Speaker 1: He he he just all of his limbs were kind of
Speaker 1: just swinging. And it wasn't the most graceful run, which
Speaker 1: is weird because he was a very fluid and graceful player. Um.
Speaker 1: And those five tools, uh you know he had. He
Speaker 1: was known most for his outfield arm and I think
Speaker 1: he led the league in outfield assists, um five or
Speaker 1: six years in a row, or maybe not in a row,
Speaker 1: but five or six seasons. Uh. And he was fearless.
Speaker 1: He would he would he was sort of like Willie
Speaker 1: Mays and that he would go after uh these outfield
Speaker 1: hits with reckless abandoned like just run right into the
Speaker 1: wall to try and get a home run ball going over,
Speaker 1: or like I said, throwing out those players from right
Speaker 1: field to third base, which is just a very, very
Speaker 1: tough thing to do. And this was like before padded walls,
Speaker 1: or at the very least, they didn't have him in
Speaker 1: a lot of the places he played because he would
Speaker 1: get like stitches or you know, really mess up his
Speaker 1: shoulder or something like that. And don't forget, he's also
Speaker 1: playing through a spinal injury from that that car wreck.
Speaker 1: And yet this guy is throwing like people out at
Speaker 1: third base from right field, um, or running for an
Speaker 1: infield grand slam. I mean, just doing crazy stuff despite
Speaker 1: these these chronic injuries that he's been accumulating. And I've
Speaker 1: read somewhere that he credits his mother with his arm
Speaker 1: he threw. He was a jack thrower. Yeah, he was
Speaker 1: javelin thrower in high school and that UM really kind
Speaker 1: of helps you develop all of the same muscles that
Speaker 1: you need to throw something like a baseball from right
Speaker 1: field to third base or home But he still said, yeah,
Speaker 1: of the javelin, that that definitely surely helped. But I
Speaker 1: got my arm from my mom. She can throw from
Speaker 1: second base to home plate with something on it still
Speaker 1: when it gets there. So he said he got his
Speaker 1: arm from his mom, which I thought was pretty sweet. Nice.
Speaker 1: I love it. Uh. And you know, off the field
Speaker 1: is why he got the award named after him. He
Speaker 1: Um would mentor uh, you know, because he was one
Speaker 1: of the first Latin American stars. He would mentor anybody
Speaker 1: that came through, especially through the Pirates organization, but he
Speaker 1: would reach out to players on other teams that were
Speaker 1: from the Caribbean to try and Um paved their way
Speaker 1: a little more smoothly. When he would go to different cities,
Speaker 1: he would go to visit kids in the hospital. Basically
Speaker 1: every city they visited, UM he would mentor these players.
Speaker 1: He would uh, this great, great story about the friendship
Speaker 1: he developed. This is a good fine by Dave Um
Speaker 1: about Carol Breeza Vetch or Breeza vic. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: you pronounced it, but um. She was a Phillies fan
Speaker 1: and a teenager and was hanging out after a game
Speaker 1: looking for autographs and saw a little crowd around Clemente
Speaker 1: but didn't really know who he was because he was
Speaker 1: playing for the Pirates and she was taking Spanish in
Speaker 1: high school. So after she got her signature, she kind
Speaker 1: of let out a very shy muchas gracias, and he
Speaker 1: just lit up and started talking to her in Spanish,
Speaker 1: and she was she was like, oh, I don't understand,
Speaker 1: so he switched to English and they ended up talking
Speaker 1: and talking and talking in the parking lot such that uh.
Speaker 1: He and his fellow teammate that were there missed the
Speaker 1: bus back to the airport, and so her dad had
Speaker 1: to drive them. And he was a big time Phillies fan,
Speaker 1: and if you know anything about Phillies fans, he was
Speaker 1: probably not happy about this, but he had to drive
Speaker 1: to Pittsburgh Pirates uh to the airport, and he and
Speaker 1: his daughter struck up a real genuine lifelong friendship, right
Speaker 1: and like like like. She was a little sister figure
Speaker 1: to him, so was her mom as well. He kind
Speaker 1: of adopted them both as sisters because he had had
Speaker 1: his sister. He had one sister out of his blings,
Speaker 1: and she had died in an accident when he was young.
Speaker 1: And so this girl just kind of struck him in
Speaker 1: just the right way, and her mom as well, and
Speaker 1: so he adopted basically her whole family. Um. He had
Speaker 1: them out to uh, I think the next away game
Speaker 1: in New York that they played, he invited the whole
Speaker 1: family out, put him up in the Pirates hotel, took
Speaker 1: him out to dinner afterward, and then as their friendship continued,
Speaker 1: he and his wife had a little Carol down for
Speaker 1: Christmas in Puerto Rico one one year. So, yeah, this
Speaker 1: is like just this this random girl. He wasn't even
Speaker 1: a Pittsburgh Pirates fan, um, and he became basically lifelong
Speaker 1: friends with her and her family. Yeah, And I think
Speaker 1: it's really speaks to the man he was because it
Speaker 1: was a time in America where just to hear an
Speaker 1: American girl say mucus gassias. It seems very throwaway today
Speaker 1: because so many people have learned Spanish and it's taught
Speaker 1: in all the schools, But back then, it was a
Speaker 1: big deal that this little girl said two words of
Speaker 1: Spanish him and that was all it took. Um just
Speaker 1: really really very pure sweet story. Yeah, and the fact
Speaker 1: that he was, you know, out there signing autographs is
Speaker 1: apparently pretty standard for him too. It was known to
Speaker 1: be like the kind of guy who he stuck around
Speaker 1: to sign every autograph that that was asked of him,
Speaker 1: of all the kids. So he was a pretty pretty
Speaker 1: good guy. And so like that's what it makes it
Speaker 1: kind of rewarding then that he finally started to get
Speaker 1: the recognition that he had long sought, that he felt
Speaker 1: like he definitely deserved. And one of the other things too,
Speaker 1: is it's easy to point to Roberto Clementing and be like,
Speaker 1: look at how satistical the guy was. He knew he
Speaker 1: was a great player, and he wanted to respect for it.
Speaker 1: To him, he represented Puerto Rico um and the Puerto
Speaker 1: Rican people, and he wanted respect not just for himself
Speaker 1: but for them as well. Like if he could gain respect,
Speaker 1: other Puerto Rican people would gain respect by proxy. And
Speaker 1: so I think that's why that was one of the
Speaker 1: reasons why it was so important to him, not just
Speaker 1: because he wanted adulation and in respect, he wanted it
Speaker 1: for all Puerto Ricans as well, and he was like
Speaker 1: a vessel for that kind of thing. So finally when
Speaker 1: it when it finally came around UM in nineteen sixty six, Uh,
Speaker 1: he he actually started to loosen up. He he became
Speaker 1: known as less Moody. He bonded with his players a
Speaker 1: little more because he played all eighteen seasons in the Pirates.
Speaker 1: He was a Pirate through and through. UM. But he
Speaker 1: he became he was voted as the National League MVP
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty six and apparently that was a huge
Speaker 1: turning point for him and his relationship with America and
Speaker 1: in baseball. Yeah, it was a big deal. UM. And
Speaker 1: you know in in nineteen seventy one is when he
Speaker 1: went to a second World Series, great great World Series
Speaker 1: the year I was born. I remember it well. He
Speaker 1: was they were the underdog against the Orioles, who are
Speaker 1: a really really good team at the time, and it
Speaker 1: went to a seventh game, just like that Yankees game did,
Speaker 1: and he got one. He hit an all seven games,
Speaker 1: hit safely and also in games, which is a really
Speaker 1: huge accomplishment, and hit a fourth inning home run and
Speaker 1: gave seven in Game seven that gave them the lead
Speaker 1: basically to go ahead home run and they ended up
Speaker 1: winning that World Series. He was named MVP, uh like
Speaker 1: I said earlier, after batting four or fourteen in the series,
Speaker 1: batting three forty one for the season. And this time
Speaker 1: he was really really involved in the celebration. And uh,
Speaker 1: like you said, since sixty six had warmed two to baseball,
Speaker 1: to the writers a little bit more, and definitely to
Speaker 1: his teammates. So it was like a really great way
Speaker 1: to end the career. And that wasn't the end of
Speaker 1: his career. He played another season, the nineteen seventy two season,
Speaker 1: UM and the Pirates got all the way to the
Speaker 1: NL East UM Conference. I think they made it past Um.
Speaker 1: They made it. I don't remember who they made it past,
Speaker 1: but they faced the Reds and lost to the Reds
Speaker 1: for the NL title to move on to the World Series.
Speaker 1: But they got pretty far. Is pretty respectable season. UM.
Speaker 1: And in that season he got his last hit. He
Speaker 1: had three thousand hits on the notes, he was UM
Speaker 1: only the eleventh player in baseball history UM to reach
Speaker 1: that milestone. UM, and he was the first Latin American
Speaker 1: player to reach that milestone, which was a huge accomplishment
Speaker 1: for him as well. But there's also something really great
Speaker 1: about just such an even number three thousand hits um
Speaker 1: and he got that three thousandth hit uh in the
Speaker 1: in the regular season. UM. They didn't make it to
Speaker 1: the World Series that year, but he uh he went
Speaker 1: back down to Puerto Rico basically immediately after the season
Speaker 1: to go play winter ball again. That's right, uh. And
Speaker 1: he he had distinction of managing an all star team
Speaker 1: down there in the Amateur Baseball World Series tournament which
Speaker 1: was held in Nicaragua that year, and he really really
Speaker 1: fell for the people of Nicaragua, and very tragically, in
Speaker 1: December of that year, a big earthquake struck killed seven
Speaker 1: thousand people and left about a quarter million homeless, and
Speaker 1: he really wanted to get involved. His heart was broken.
Speaker 1: He had met so many great people in Nicaragua and
Speaker 1: wanted to get involved and helped them out and organized
Speaker 1: personally organized organized a relief mission there um raising a
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars by going door to door
Speaker 1: to purchase food, twenty six tons of food and clothing
Speaker 1: and medicine. He gets the word that their president there,
Speaker 1: who was corrupt, was like so often happens in those situations,
Speaker 1: commandeering the supplies and they weren't getting to the people.
Speaker 1: So he said, you know what I'm gonna do. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get a plane and I'm gonna fly shipment of
Speaker 1: supplies down there myself. And so he boarded a d
Speaker 1: C seven on December thirty one, New Year's Eve, nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy two to do just that, right, Yeah, he did,
Speaker 1: And it turned out, unfortunately that that highly successful campaign,
Speaker 1: the drive that he he spearheaded, that produced twenty six
Speaker 1: tons of supplies, well, twenty six tons was way too
Speaker 1: much for the DC seven that he arted. Um, and
Speaker 1: the engines were attacked from the outset. He took off
Speaker 1: from Puerto Rico and started flying out over the ocean,
Speaker 1: and the engines actually blew up and um, they tried
Speaker 1: to turn the plane around while it was on fire
Speaker 1: and fly back, and they made it i think a
Speaker 1: mile from the coast before the plane broke up and
Speaker 1: fell into the ocean and all five people on board
Speaker 1: were killed, including Roberto Clemente, who again was overseeing personally
Speaker 1: humanitarian mission in Nicaragua to help people who are victims
Speaker 1: of an earthquake. And that's how he lost his life
Speaker 1: at age thirty eight. Yeah, just brutal, brutal end to
Speaker 1: his story. Uh, people search for his body, um, you know,
Speaker 1: people on the beach hell daily vigils, hoping that he
Speaker 1: would somehow be found alive and rescued. But you know,
Speaker 1: obviously nobody survived that crash. His body was never even recovered.
Speaker 1: And a few months after the crash, he was inducted
Speaker 1: into the Hall of Fame, one of only two times
Speaker 1: it's happened. The other was Luke Arrig where you don't
Speaker 1: have to wait that mandatory five year period after the
Speaker 1: end of your career. And in fact, I think his
Speaker 1: set the precedent now that UM, if you have been
Speaker 1: deceased for six months, you were eligible for Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame induction, and he was just the second one. And
Speaker 1: then they created that award in his honor, Clemente Award,
Speaker 1: the which is for humanitarian baseball players. So that's a
Speaker 1: huge honor in and of itself. UM. I think you
Speaker 1: said that he got like twelve Golden Glove or Gold
Speaker 1: Glove awards for fielding his last one or maybe his
Speaker 1: um his wife accepted on his behalf the following April
Speaker 1: after he died, and Vera Um dedicated herself to seeing
Speaker 1: through um his dreams and actually organized and got that
Speaker 1: sports city in Puerto Rico built and it's still there
Speaker 1: today as a matter Yes, I mean she she really
Speaker 1: continued his work and um it, you know that I
Speaker 1: hate that phrase behind every great man is a great woman,
Speaker 1: because really beside every great man is a great woman,
Speaker 1: and that was definitely the case with Vera. And she
Speaker 1: was a lifetime humanitarian and philanthropist as well, which is amazing. Yea.
Speaker 1: One of the great things about Roberto Clemente is he's
Speaker 1: the kind of guy you can name a school after
Speaker 1: and feel pretty good about it. And as a result,
Speaker 1: there's in the round the world there's forty public schools,
Speaker 1: two hospitals, and more than two hundred parks and ball
Speaker 1: fields named after him. And I think now there's at
Speaker 1: least forty one public schools because this past September in
Speaker 1: Orange County, Florida, Stonewall Jackson Middle School was renamed Roberto
Speaker 1: clement A Middle School. Yeah, well that's about appropriate for
Speaker 1: our times. Yeah, it's pretty great. So now there's forty
Speaker 1: one schools named after Roberto Clemente. So if you have
Speaker 1: a school and you're like, who can we name this
Speaker 1: after you could do a lot worse than Roberto Clemente
Speaker 1: and people still probably complained about that. Who cares? Who cares? Eventually, Chuck,
Speaker 1: you just have to say, I don't care that you're complaining, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you're in the wrong. So, uh, you got anything
Speaker 1: else about Roberto Clemente? Nothing else? I watch YouTube videos
Speaker 1: of him. It's amazing. Yeah, there's yeah, just just say
Speaker 1: just type in like Roberto Clemente throw from right fields
Speaker 1: or home run. He's had some amazing home runs. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just fun to watch. Plus, you're right, he he was.
Speaker 1: He was pretty easy on the eyes, especially as far
Speaker 1: as baseball players go. You know, a lot of them
Speaker 1: are horribly ugly. That's right. Blah blah boom. Since I
Speaker 1: said that, it's time for a listener mail, don't you
Speaker 1: think I think so? This is called Eddie van Halen.
Speaker 1: You know, we lost Eddie van Halen recently and it
Speaker 1: was very tough for me. But we got a an
Speaker 1: emailer from Australia says, I jinx it. Hey guys, I'm
Speaker 1: writing in because I was just listening to the political
Speaker 1: Polling episode and Chuck mentioned, oh he was having a
Speaker 1: break from internet news, and he is only looking at
Speaker 1: something that brings me joy, like old led Zeppelin and
Speaker 1: Van Halen YouTube videos. Cut to a couple of weeks later,
Speaker 1: in the tragic news of Eddie van Halen, passing like
Speaker 1: it's some weird twisted way of the universe, saying, oh,
Speaker 1: you found something that brings you joy. I'll fix that.
Speaker 1: I don't believe in that stuff, but it was fairly ironic.
Speaker 1: But truth be told, I can usually be found watching
Speaker 1: old van Halen videos, so I know I'm making light
Speaker 1: of the death of someone. Oh I don't think you
Speaker 1: really are, Matt Um. That would have been a massive
Speaker 1: influences in a lot of lives. But in these times
Speaker 1: we need to find a laugh wherever we can. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I love the podcast. Can't wait for you to touch
Speaker 1: on some Australian topics. Hint, hint, all the best and
Speaker 1: that is Matt from Melbourne. Oh and you even said
Speaker 1: it right, Chuck, Thank god that Matt. Yeah, I'm sure
Speaker 1: Jimmy Page is like Chuck, stop watching videos of me. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: if you want to be like Matt from Melbourne, who
Speaker 1: is awesome just for being from Melbourne, because we've been
Speaker 1: into Melbourne and Melbourne is a pretty great place. Um wonderful.
Speaker 1: You can send us an email send it off to
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