Speaker 1: Welcome to Special Teams, a production of I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: Greetings and Welcome Inside Special Teams, the podcast where me,
Speaker 1: Jason Smith and Mike Harmon go over special teams from
Speaker 1: specific years in sports. We're going back into the nineteen
Speaker 1: eighties now, which is a fun time to go. There
Speaker 1: were so many wide open, fun games to get to.
Speaker 1: And this week we're gonna look back at what many
Speaker 1: people say could be the greatest college football game of
Speaker 1: the past fifty years, and the eight Holiday Ball also
Speaker 1: known as the Miracle Bowl, a game which pitted the
Speaker 1: b YU Cougars against the s m U Mustangs. This
Speaker 1: is the early days of the Pony Express and Greg
Speaker 1: James and Eric Dickerson and Lance mclaney at quarterback against
Speaker 1: the b YU Cougars and Jim McMahon. This back when
Speaker 1: b y U was the Boise State of college football,
Speaker 1: where every year b y you would win a lot
Speaker 1: of games in the Whack and there would be the
Speaker 1: question of do they deserve to win a national championship
Speaker 1: or not? And we debated, debated, debated. This is a
Speaker 1: big five six year run for b y U and
Speaker 1: one future podcast we'll get into the year they actually
Speaker 1: did win the national title. But this game, a forty
Speaker 1: five win by b y U over s m U,
Speaker 1: had absolutely everything in it, including the late comeback by
Speaker 1: Mike Harmon's favorite NFL quarterback of all time, Jim McMahon.
Speaker 1: Well he does rank up there. Any guy that will
Speaker 1: rock aheadman that questions authority and that the NFL commissioner
Speaker 1: is all good by me. Blank you rose element or
Speaker 1: headband with your name on it. Think about it. That
Speaker 1: was the first time you had helicopters going over and
Speaker 1: trying to get pictures of what was going on, or
Speaker 1: at least that's as early as I remember it. But
Speaker 1: as you say, I mean this, this was the B
Speaker 1: y U squad that perennial double digit victories and always
Speaker 1: the hand ringing of all right, we keep them out right,
Speaker 1: And then you started doing all this other math and
Speaker 1: as they kept changing the systems, you kept opening the
Speaker 1: door just a little bit. Yeah, they were the They
Speaker 1: were the original of the outside the Power five conferences.
Speaker 1: How legit are they? And you know they with the
Speaker 1: offense they had. Lavell Edwards was an incredible head coach.
Speaker 1: You talked about their schedule, all right, they're playing teams
Speaker 1: in the whack. They would get outside the whack once
Speaker 1: in a while, but is it enough to really show
Speaker 1: them and and and spotlight them as one of the
Speaker 1: best teams in college football? And honestly, this game is
Speaker 1: the one that really put them on the map because
Speaker 1: at this point, the Holiday Bowl is only in its
Speaker 1: third season, right, the hollidayall the b y U tradition
Speaker 1: there there every year they play in the middle of December.
Speaker 1: That was a Holiday Bowl. But it's only in its
Speaker 1: third year. You know, the whack champion is committed to
Speaker 1: go there. And this is b y U winning its
Speaker 1: fifth straight conference title. But they hadn't won the Holiday
Speaker 1: Bowl yet. You know, this is the year they started out.
Speaker 1: They lost opening week to New Mexico, which they finished
Speaker 1: four and seven. You look back and go, how the
Speaker 1: hell did that happen? One? They lost in New Mexico
Speaker 1: opening week? How the hell did they pull that off? Yeah,
Speaker 1: going back through that game, I mean, you had a
Speaker 1: bunch of sacks, so I mean that that was commonplace,
Speaker 1: so you know, offsetting your rushing total, but the rushing
Speaker 1: attack didn't exist. They had fifteen penalties for a hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty two yards. Uh, so you hang a star
Speaker 1: on that one. But you know they won the turnover
Speaker 1: battle in a big way. Five the two the final there,
Speaker 1: but it didn't matter. Uh New Mexico just enough to
Speaker 1: eke out of victory Jim McMahon and with with a
Speaker 1: single well, I had two touchdowns on the day, but
Speaker 1: just a bunch of field goals. A guy named Pete
Speaker 1: Parks for the victory. Just uh. He's a legend and
Speaker 1: I'm sure they bronzed his foot and put it in
Speaker 1: a trophy case at the end of the season. Go
Speaker 1: and see how good they were and how prolific they were.
Speaker 1: We got him and t J. Pete Parks and wrecked
Speaker 1: B y U Week one with okay um nicely done.
Speaker 1: It was a question of whether you were going to
Speaker 1: go there huh, or were you gonna go and uh
Speaker 1: turn it into Peter Parker Oregon Parks Department. I could
Speaker 1: have done that too. That's good to no summer job
Speaker 1: for Parks departmentalizing the win over B y U. So
Speaker 1: if B y U somehow wins that game, we're having
Speaker 1: the National Championship conversation for b y U four years
Speaker 1: earlier for a maybe not four maybe not. Maybe they
Speaker 1: win that one and then somewhere they slip up down
Speaker 1: the road. But if you beat a four and seven
Speaker 1: team and you win the rest of your games, you're
Speaker 1: having the national champion conversation. Because they were that good.
Speaker 1: They blew out everybody they played. They led college football
Speaker 1: in total offense over five hundred yards a game, scoring
Speaker 1: forty six points a game, passing yards four nine yards
Speaker 1: a game. I mean, people forget how good and prolific
Speaker 1: Jim McMahon was. We remember him as this great leader
Speaker 1: and and emotionally what he was for the Chicago Bears.
Speaker 1: But in college, I mean he was throwing for forty
Speaker 1: touchdowns in four thousand yards. I mean he had a
Speaker 1: phenomenal collegiate career. Steve Young was a freshman backup on
Speaker 1: this team. Andy Reid was on the offensive line, Bart Oates,
Speaker 1: Visa Kahemma, Tom Homeoll, Kyle Winningham, who was now the
Speaker 1: head coach at Utah. But McMahon was the star of
Speaker 1: this team, and he winds up going number five overall
Speaker 1: of the Bears a couple of years later. But he remember,
Speaker 1: he came into the league like he's gonna be the
Speaker 1: next big superstar. He's gonna be Dan Marino, the numbers
Speaker 1: he putting these electric numbers he's putting up in college,
Speaker 1: he's gonna do in the NFL. That was the hype
Speaker 1: around Jim mcmah one. Well, and that curiosity of how
Speaker 1: that was gonna work, because at that point you still
Speaker 1: got a couple of years of Walter Baton left right
Speaker 1: as you're flowing through, and it's always been a run
Speaker 1: heavy offense. Looking most we don't need to go into
Speaker 1: a deep dive of Bears quarterbacking through the years, and
Speaker 1: now the Vince Evans years. Well, I mean, look, when
Speaker 1: when it's all done. As much people as people hate
Speaker 1: on Jay Cutler, you can make the argument pretty easily
Speaker 1: he was the best quarterback they've seen since Sid Luckman.
Speaker 1: But McMahon with the the braggadocious style. But I mean
Speaker 1: go back to his stats, as you mentioned, forty seven touchdowns,
Speaker 1: and this is the thing that's that's the curiosity for me.
Speaker 1: Forty seven touchdowns, eighteen picks in his junior year. But
Speaker 1: he completed almost sixty of his throws plus yards. And
Speaker 1: then he comes back and in that eighty in the
Speaker 1: eight one season, complete sixty of his passes again, thirty
Speaker 1: touchdowns seven picks. So I mean you're talking about winging
Speaker 1: it around, uh and getting after it. Certainly for Chicago
Speaker 1: fans they're expecting big things of an aerial assault. But
Speaker 1: we also know that's where wide receivers go to die. Right.
Speaker 1: How many guys have been quoted as saying that through
Speaker 1: the years and why it's difficult to get people to
Speaker 1: come play at a frozen Chicago lakefront for half of
Speaker 1: your season. So, but Jim McMahon always a character and
Speaker 1: plenty of stories in the Naked City with him. So
Speaker 1: b YU comes into this game eleven and one MAC
Speaker 1: champions and they take on SMU eight and three in
Speaker 1: the Southwest Conference. And this was the early days, as
Speaker 1: I said, of the Pony Express, the most famous team
Speaker 1: in SMU history. Craig James went on to the NFL
Speaker 1: and you see him announcing everywhere. And Eric Dickerson, who
Speaker 1: went on to a Hall of Fame career in the
Speaker 1: National Football League. The Eric Dickerson friend of our show.
Speaker 1: Eric Dickerson, we have him on all the time, gave
Speaker 1: us big headlines a couple of years ago with some
Speaker 1: fun stuff he made. He exacted some change in Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: got his revenge on on on Jeff Fisher, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: But this was the most prolific running offense in college football,
Speaker 1: and you have the most prolific passing offense in college football.
Speaker 1: I mean, the Pony Express was really both of them.
Speaker 1: You you think, well, was it really Dickerson was the
Speaker 1: main guy. No, it wasn't. All right this year when
Speaker 1: they were both sophomores, right, this is the first year
Speaker 1: of their breakout years. James ran for eight hundred ninety
Speaker 1: six yards five yards to carry, six touchdowns. Dickerson was
Speaker 1: very similar yards five yards per carry, five touchdowns. Their
Speaker 1: true breakout, which we'll get into later on, was a
Speaker 1: year away, but they really shared the load throughout the time.
Speaker 1: So that's why this was the pony that both of
Speaker 1: them who could just stop, you know, both of them
Speaker 1: with with different skill sets and and Dickerson was so
Speaker 1: powerful and so smooth, and James was so tough and
Speaker 1: he was deceptively fast, and you couldn't stop s m U.
Speaker 1: And they got into bigger, let's say, controversies and bigger
Speaker 1: play on the field in subsequent years. But this was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: they got something special going on here at s m U.
Speaker 1: As far as getting off the field and winning games,
Speaker 1: I was staying away from controversy. That's something completely different.
Speaker 1: But you could tell on the field, Okay, they're really good.
Speaker 1: They got something going on here. Yeah, we can get
Speaker 1: back into controversies, death penalties and others. Put that down
Speaker 1: for a future Special Team podcast. But I mean you
Speaker 1: look at it here. You mentioned mclenny and Mike Ford,
Speaker 1: the other quarterback. I mean they combined to throw forty yards. Yeah,
Speaker 1: right now, leven touchdowns, nine interceptions between them. That's how
Speaker 1: much in a season lied up in this season in
Speaker 1: a season no exactly. Uh Ford completed of his past
Speaker 1: attempts mcillanny five not three, not not looking to chuck
Speaker 1: it down field doing that two step well, I mean
Speaker 1: kind of like you would do in if you want
Speaker 1: to do a little bit of line Danson and stuff.
Speaker 1: So it is the Miracle Bowl is all said to
Speaker 1: go what it's known now as well, specifically for b
Speaker 1: y U teams. I don't think they say the same
Speaker 1: thing at s m U. The comeback for the ages,
Speaker 1: we get into it, how it happened and how maybe
Speaker 1: it shouldn't have happened. Coming up next on Special teams
Speaker 1: the game on Miss lou Sports Network announcers Ray Scott
Speaker 1: and Grady Alderman. The Holiday Ball featuring the b y
Speaker 1: U Cougars against the SMU Mustangs. We thought we'd see
Speaker 1: a lot of offense in this game, and early on
Speaker 1: and for most of the game we did, and most
Speaker 1: of it came from s m U. It was a huge,
Speaker 1: high scoring game and SMU controlled this game deep into
Speaker 1: the fourth quarter. Craig James goes off two five yards
Speaker 1: rushing in this game. Eric Dickerson runs for a hundred
Speaker 1: and ten. You can see the highlights and see the
Speaker 1: story of this game many places on the internet. It
Speaker 1: was an unstoppable night for their running game. They got
Speaker 1: up nineteen nothing seven. They were up forty five five
Speaker 1: after james Is forty two yard touchdown run with four
Speaker 1: minutes to go. So think about this, this is where
Speaker 1: are jumping off point is. Craig James runs for a
Speaker 1: forty two yard touchdown with four minutes left and they
Speaker 1: lead the game forty five four minutes left to go.
Speaker 1: SMU total runs for three yards. B y U runs
Speaker 1: from minus two. That's the that's the end of the game.
Speaker 1: S m You finished with fifty three yards passing. And
Speaker 1: just to to tell you how offense, how much offense
Speaker 1: you could have running the football. STU was everything on
Speaker 1: the ground, nothing through the air. B y U was
Speaker 1: the opposite, And until this point in the game it
Speaker 1: was all SMU. They ran all over b y U.
Speaker 1: And you have a twenty point lead with four minutes
Speaker 1: left to go. Fans are leaving the stadium at this
Speaker 1: point because all right, it's over, We're done. Look, this
Speaker 1: game's in San Diego and it's an easy your commute
Speaker 1: for b y U fans and still less you can
Speaker 1: get there, but it's Dallas compared to Utah, and fans
Speaker 1: were leaving and Jim McMahon starts screaming at the fans
Speaker 1: the game isn't over now. A as big a B
Speaker 1: y U fan as I might have been, I looked
Speaker 1: and said, dude, come on, man, really, what's in that
Speaker 1: gator right on the sideline. We're down by twenty. We've
Speaker 1: been terrible all night. All right, we've scored a seven, six,
Speaker 1: and six in each quarter. We're really gonna win this game, McMahon,
Speaker 1: What is wrong with you? And well, Jim McMahon turned
Speaker 1: out to be right. But still at the time I
Speaker 1: would have started winging it around. What are you doing
Speaker 1: right away than you mentioned some of the stats. I mean,
Speaker 1: when you go through and you get to the endpoint
Speaker 1: of this game, total net yards, there's a two yard differential, right, SMU,
Speaker 1: two more yards? You would think the run game of
Speaker 1: Dickerson and James, the way they've dominated they ran the
Speaker 1: ball sixties six times, time of possession and a number
Speaker 1: of plays, there's not a whole lot of differential. Number
Speaker 1: of offensive plays was a difference of four. It was
Speaker 1: very Look, it's a game on the scoreboard, right, one
Speaker 1: team runs one too, it was. It was even all
Speaker 1: the way. It's about as even a classic and a
Speaker 1: comeback game as you could possibly Yet there's no one
Speaker 1: number that stands out so far over the rest. Well
Speaker 1: mc mahn's passing yards, what about Craig james rushing yards?
Speaker 1: I mean you can you can go back and forth
Speaker 1: with all of that thing all day. It was that
Speaker 1: equal a game, well, just fantastic on its display, right,
Speaker 1: because now we celebrate what they get called as the
Speaker 1: lesser Bowl games, the afterthoughts or the for gamblers only,
Speaker 1: I think is the subtitle for a lot of it
Speaker 1: anymore or the obviously the Alma maters people get excited.
Speaker 1: Don't don't come at me at Swollen Dome if you
Speaker 1: feel like you need to. But the idea being that
Speaker 1: the throw is But as long as there's some scoring,
Speaker 1: you're gonna tune in, especially games for Christmass. This is
Speaker 1: the beginning of the Bull season because the Holiday Bowl
Speaker 1: was always the week before Chris Miss. This game was
Speaker 1: on December, so it was the beginning of the Bull
Speaker 1: season when you have that excitement level of okay, we
Speaker 1: got college football with everybody's close to getting time off.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be off and be home with my family.
Speaker 1: And you know, then you get into the bowl games
Speaker 1: after the twenty five when you're off from work and
Speaker 1: you get to see this. But you know there's a
Speaker 1: special spot for the Holiday but hey, it's one of
Speaker 1: the first big early Bowl games, and you know, people
Speaker 1: who were watching on ms lou Sports, hey, you got
Speaker 1: an absolute thriller. I may or may not have enjoyed
Speaker 1: a Holiday Bowl win in my recent past from my
Speaker 1: all my mother. So here's where we're at SMU with
Speaker 1: the lead, four minutes left to go. B y U
Speaker 1: gets the ball back and they drive down the field.
Speaker 1: Not surprising, McMahon throws a touchdown to Matt Braga, and
Speaker 1: if you see this play, you can see clearly the
Speaker 1: ball hits the ground. Should not have been a touchdown,
Speaker 1: but in eighty without the benefit of replay or the
Speaker 1: referees in the right spot, this counts McMahon cell cell cell. Baby.
Speaker 1: McMahon is running against his body, so he's not running
Speaker 1: to the right, he's running to the left, so he's
Speaker 1: got a square his shoulders and throw and McMahon even says, Hey,
Speaker 1: the one thing I could do better than anybody at
Speaker 1: quarterback was roll out and throw the football because I
Speaker 1: learned for a very young age how to square my
Speaker 1: shoulders and throw while I'm running, So I knew I
Speaker 1: I I did that great. And I think he wanted
Speaker 1: to do that more with the Chicago Bears and on
Speaker 1: in his career. But this play, you can see it's
Speaker 1: on display. He's running away from his power and he
Speaker 1: throws a laser that only goes in one spot where
Speaker 1: his player is gonna get it or it's gonna hit
Speaker 1: the ground, and it's low to the ground and you
Speaker 1: can see Brod gets his hand under it. But you
Speaker 1: see the ball bounce and helmet ground but still, hey,
Speaker 1: the arms go up, touchdown, b y U. This makes
Speaker 1: it forty thirty two. And at this point it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you had a touchdown, but you know you're still down
Speaker 1: by thirteen, with you know, under three minutes left to go,
Speaker 1: this game really isn't gonna happen for you. Still thinking
Speaker 1: you're gonna be stay able to alter away, especially with
Speaker 1: that run game the way it's been in the number
Speaker 1: of yards that you we've seen churned away from James
Speaker 1: and Dickerson over the course of the day. But if
Speaker 1: you've got a guy with no conscience, and that's the
Speaker 1: one thing with McMahon us as a quarterback, if he
Speaker 1: had it in his hands, willing to wing it at
Speaker 1: any time. Now he mentioned his career with Chicago Bears
Speaker 1: goes back to personnel and who do you trust uh
Speaker 1: in that whole thing, because Willie Galt was fast, but
Speaker 1: you know a lot of times he wouldn't close the hands. Dude,
Speaker 1: you had kend Marjoram. Come on, man, you had kid. Yeah,
Speaker 1: no celebrating him. Uh, well, you know, get a way
Speaker 1: to get the obscure Bears tight end. You want to
Speaker 1: get Emery Moore head in while I was sure a
Speaker 1: former Giant, former bear, Emory moorehead nicely done? Was he
Speaker 1: married to ag this morehead? You know? For the purposes
Speaker 1: of this conversation, happy nuptials. So b y U scores
Speaker 1: a touchdown for thirty two. They on side kick, and
Speaker 1: they do an on side kick where it's the kicker
Speaker 1: who kicks it about ten yards in front of them,
Speaker 1: and the players run up to form that protective cone.
Speaker 1: So as soon as the ball gets past the ten
Speaker 1: yard line, either the kicker or the player next to
Speaker 1: him can jump on the football. This works to perfection
Speaker 1: because SMU doesn't have anybody near the football, so be
Speaker 1: why you recovers it works. They drive down the field
Speaker 1: a touchdown run by Scott Phillips makes it nine, and
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, this is now a game. They try
Speaker 1: the on side kick again and if it works once,
Speaker 1: why not try it again? Right, instead of a different
Speaker 1: once kick, We're gonna do it again. So they do
Speaker 1: the exact same kick, except this time SMU and you know, listen,
Speaker 1: Ron Meyer was a pretty good head coach. Uh, he says, listen,
Speaker 1: if they do that again, I'm sure he said. If
Speaker 1: they do that again, run forward and get the ball
Speaker 1: before it goes ten yards, And that's exactly what happens.
Speaker 1: They run the same on side kick to SMU. Players
Speaker 1: jump forward before the ball goes ten yards, they jump
Speaker 1: on it. They haven't, And you think this game is over.
Speaker 1: This has been fun by b YU. They're back within
Speaker 1: a touchdown, but really this is gonna be it now
Speaker 1: because SMU has the running backs. They've been doing it
Speaker 1: all night long, and this game is over. Well, you
Speaker 1: think you'll be able to salt it away. You just
Speaker 1: need the possession. How do you not cover up on
Speaker 1: side kicks? Repeatedly? Is uh? But you'd be fired on
Speaker 1: the spot now with the coverage. I mean you'd have
Speaker 1: a fall guy, special teams guy would go, and probably
Speaker 1: another assistant coach just for giggles. But you know, watching
Speaker 1: the the replays of this and and the highlights as
Speaker 1: you roll through, it's it's always the curiosity, like the
Speaker 1: kickers not being sneaky. Oh no, no, no, this is
Speaker 1: this is what we're doing. Yeah, that's not one of
Speaker 1: those misdirection where we're gonna start running one way and
Speaker 1: start running the other way. No, I'm just gonna do
Speaker 1: it this way, and it works great the first time.
Speaker 1: He let's do it again, Well, except this time they're ready.
Speaker 1: Ever expect us to do that again? That would be
Speaker 1: too stupid, So let's do it. Uh. So SMU has
Speaker 1: the ball and okay, it's easy for them to run
Speaker 1: out the clock. Except it's not. They can't get a
Speaker 1: first down. Eric Dickerson is tackled as he tries to
Speaker 1: take a sweep outside on third down. So now they
Speaker 1: have to punt. But it shouldn't really matter, right because
Speaker 1: SMU was punting with thirteen seconds left in the game,
Speaker 1: and they shouldn't have to worry about it. Right, there's
Speaker 1: less than twenty seconds to go. We just punt the
Speaker 1: ball down, it's all you know. No team in night
Speaker 1: could go down the field in ten seconds without time outs.
Speaker 1: All you gotta do is punt the ball away. But
Speaker 1: if you ask Jim Harball, hey, how easy is it
Speaker 1: to just pump the ball and win a football game
Speaker 1: over Michigan State? Uh? Too soon? Too soon for that one,
Speaker 1: doesn't No? No, Well, well I'll just hell her to
Speaker 1: skip over this party. Listen to the first segment, then
Speaker 1: skip a little bit in the beginning of the second
Speaker 1: then listen at the end. So all they gotta do
Speaker 1: is punt the ball down field, except they can't. Be
Speaker 1: Yu gets through. A couple of guys get through, and
Speaker 1: they blocked the punt. With thirteen seconds left, they have
Speaker 1: the ball at s m us forty one yard I mean,
Speaker 1: if you're Smu which grabbed the ball, take one step
Speaker 1: in punt even if it goes twenty yards. What do
Speaker 1: you you? You have the ball where the middle of
Speaker 1: the field. The ball is gonna be at the twenty
Speaker 1: yard line. All you gotta do is punet So just
Speaker 1: don't worry about getting it getting just grab it one
Speaker 1: to kick it even if it goes just pass the
Speaker 1: line of scrimmage. More time is gonna take off the clock.
Speaker 1: There's gonna be ten seconds left. They're gonna have the
Speaker 1: ball at their own thirty yard line. The game is over.
Speaker 1: But they get through, they block it, and now b
Speaker 1: y U has it thirteen seconds left and they're at
Speaker 1: the forty one yard line. They have time for a
Speaker 1: couple of plays and the gut untouched. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: amazing how how you blow that that blocking coverage right
Speaker 1: there when you should have everybody's in. Nobody gets in,
Speaker 1: We don't don't don't have to worry about anybody releasing.
Speaker 1: We want to make sure we protect the punter because
Speaker 1: we just got a punnet. That's all we have to
Speaker 1: do is but they you know, your returners set up
Speaker 1: on the ten yard line. Man, everything is set up perfectly,
Speaker 1: and then you completely biff a blocking assignment. Unbelievable. So
Speaker 1: now thirteen seconds left and McMahon, you're thinking, Okay, this
Speaker 1: could really be a miracle for thirty nine. But what
Speaker 1: are they gonna do. First play, McMahon throws a crossing
Speaker 1: pattern incomplete across the field. All right, Well, that that
Speaker 1: didn't work. Second play was a hail Mary. McMahon throws
Speaker 1: it down and it's not even close, and you could
Speaker 1: tell already the celebration looks to be going on with
Speaker 1: s m U. There's time for one more play. And
Speaker 1: now before the result of this play, we get to
Speaker 1: results of this play, they have one last chance and
Speaker 1: it's another hail Mary, because you have to at this
Speaker 1: point because there's no other time left. McMahon throws this
Speaker 1: ball down field and this is where when I see
Speaker 1: him play. If you want to say what did McMahon
Speaker 1: look like in in college, if I wanted to get
Speaker 1: an opinion, he looked a lot like Jimmy Garoppolo. And
Speaker 1: we talked about Garoppolo a lot on the show, and
Speaker 1: that Garoppolo sometimes doesn't really step into his throws, as
Speaker 1: I said, a lot of times, I think he is
Speaker 1: shying away. He can't step in and take the big hit.
Speaker 1: He doesn't want it. He's not a guy that's gonna
Speaker 1: sacrifice his body for a big throw. But his arm
Speaker 1: is so strong, he's got such strong hips. He just
Speaker 1: kind of slings it and the ball gets out pretty fast.
Speaker 1: That's kind of how Jim McMahon throws this hail Mary downfield,
Speaker 1: and he throws it a little bit earlier because he
Speaker 1: can sense the rush coming from his left. He doesn't
Speaker 1: step into it, but he just kind of hips it
Speaker 1: and he throws it up. But it's a big, regular
Speaker 1: hail Mary throw. But that's the remind of you of
Speaker 1: you see him throw It's, yeah, he's got that hip
Speaker 1: action move and he throws a little bit early, just
Speaker 1: like Garoppolo likes to do, and he gets the ball
Speaker 1: to the end zone. So if I'm thinking of who
Speaker 1: McMahon was like in college because clearly he was a
Speaker 1: different guy in the NFL, not as dynamic, and Garoppolo
Speaker 1: at least has some dynamic games. That's kind of what
Speaker 1: he reminds me of with his body type because he
Speaker 1: was still really thin at this point. He was able
Speaker 1: to move a bit. He got out and threw outside
Speaker 1: the tackles a lot Garoppolos, who he kind of reminds
Speaker 1: me of here. Yeah, I mean that that's an app comparison.
Speaker 1: I think we see with Garoppolo there's a big arm,
Speaker 1: just a question of sometimes, as you said, either doesn't
Speaker 1: want to step into the throw and take the extra hit,
Speaker 1: yet he'll take the extra hit on the sideline. And
Speaker 1: McMahon was the same way, right. That's that's the funny thing, right,
Speaker 1: is he's a guy that would tuck the ball and
Speaker 1: trying to get the extra yards. And we we saw
Speaker 1: many a defender to have their way with him both
Speaker 1: as a runner and in the pocket, oftentimes after the
Speaker 1: place should have been blown dead. But and I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about you Packer fans right there. But the the idea
Speaker 1: with Garoppolo, it's the same, right, runs a bit and
Speaker 1: has that he just flips it right. That risk action
Speaker 1: that we talk about in that arm strength, I mean,
Speaker 1: the stuff you can't teach, and that it's just a
Speaker 1: matter of the fundamentals from there. With McMahon, that never materialized.
Speaker 1: He was a great leader and winner, but not a
Speaker 1: guy that could stay healthy. And we've already seen Garoppolo
Speaker 1: go down once for you know, not getting out of bounds.
Speaker 1: We'll see how he his career unfolds as as it
Speaker 1: rolls through, whether he starts wearing headbands and just speaking
Speaker 1: out against anybody his nightlife. I mean we've seen him
Speaker 1: a little loose there. Yeah, but yeah, the the effortless throws,
Speaker 1: I mean just kind of flipping it to the end
Speaker 1: zone from midfield from McMahon. Here something Bears fans are
Speaker 1: scratching their heads, going where was where was this guy?
Speaker 1: Where was this guy? I wish we didn't see more
Speaker 1: of this. So time back in now to the final
Speaker 1: play of the game where McMahon drops back and it's
Speaker 1: a quicker hail Mary throw when you see it now,
Speaker 1: generally a quarterback drops back. He buys enough time for
Speaker 1: his receivers to all get downfield so it can be
Speaker 1: a true jump ball in the end zone. You want
Speaker 1: a deflection. You want a tall player down there and
Speaker 1: be able to go up and grab it. So usually
Speaker 1: the plays take a little bit longer to develop and
Speaker 1: everybody gets down there and you jump. McMahon throws this
Speaker 1: ball early because he's got the rush coming and and
Speaker 1: he chucks it up and because he throws it early,
Speaker 1: this place succeeds. Clay Brown is a tight end and
Speaker 1: he's running right down the middle of the field and
Speaker 1: he's run by two defenders who are chasing him. They
Speaker 1: haven't gotten to the end zone yet to be able
Speaker 1: to stop and turn around because mcman has thrown this
Speaker 1: ball pretty fast. And now you have the two defensive
Speaker 1: backs who are in the middle of the end zone
Speaker 1: looking up at the ball coming down. So picture this.
Speaker 1: You have the receiver them. It's like it's like the
Speaker 1: five how the dice are on a on the number
Speaker 1: five on on a diet. You have the two dots
Speaker 1: on the top, the dot in the middle, and then
Speaker 1: the two dots on the bottom. This is what it
Speaker 1: looks like. So you have two players who haven't had
Speaker 1: a chance to get to the end zone to turn
Speaker 1: and look up, so they're out of the play, and
Speaker 1: now you have the two defensive backs who had lined
Speaker 1: up there and they see the ball coming towards them.
Speaker 1: Brown runs and he stops in front of them and
Speaker 1: turns around, and there's not a lot of time the
Speaker 1: dbs don't move in jostle for better position. They allow
Speaker 1: Brown to get down, stop in front of them, and
Speaker 1: turn around, and he does a great job blocking them
Speaker 1: away from the ball. Look, he's a tight end, he's big.
Speaker 1: He goes up and it's not even a difficult play.
Speaker 1: The defensive backs kind of just go up with their
Speaker 1: arms up and they're behind the ball, so they can't
Speaker 1: do anything, and Brown comes down with it. Touchdown. Game
Speaker 1: is tied. Everybody's running on the field, Lavellawards running around
Speaker 1: and saying, we have the extra point, we have the
Speaker 1: extra point. But here's a hail Mary touchdown, and the
Speaker 1: people in the stands left in the stands are going
Speaker 1: nuts because now you have had a deficit with four
Speaker 1: minutes left to go, completely erased and an extra point
Speaker 1: away from winning this game. It was amazing. But sometimes
Speaker 1: when you throw the ball up a little bit earlier,
Speaker 1: you can get things and catch the defense a little
Speaker 1: bit off guard and that's what happened here. I've now
Speaker 1: probably watched this play forty times in preparation for this podcast,
Speaker 1: and for the life of me, I don't know what
Speaker 1: the dvs are doing. They're just standing there. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stand here, but like they totally misjudge the
Speaker 1: arc of the ball and are still backpeddling. Now forget
Speaker 1: the linebackers and everything that that he dusts off the line,
Speaker 1: and we'll we'll get to the where are they now
Speaker 1: of Mr Brown here in a little bit. But it's
Speaker 1: just incredible because it's one guy against five, right, There's
Speaker 1: no other receivers in this play, right, I said, It's
Speaker 1: just said, well, hey, hope for a tip ball, and
Speaker 1: here we are. It's literally one guy in between us
Speaker 1: sea of opponent jerseys and the referee comes over definitively like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he got you. And you can just see all the
Speaker 1: defenders looking at each other. How did you not get
Speaker 1: a hand on the ball? Where were you? Guys? Nobody
Speaker 1: was looking for the ball coming up because they were
Speaker 1: all I'm sure they were all surprised it was coming
Speaker 1: out this early. Nobody ran, there was no help, there
Speaker 1: was no It was a very fast, hail Mary from
Speaker 1: drop back throat and here's a catch. It was. It
Speaker 1: was stunning how quick it was. And now here you go.
Speaker 1: You still have to calm down and kick the extra point,
Speaker 1: all right, and and look back in extra points were
Speaker 1: still automatic. But this is still college. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of pressure their kids, except the they line up out
Speaker 1: there for the extra point. Kurt Gunther makes it on
Speaker 1: the final play by you wins. The total number of
Speaker 1: yards passing for Jim McMahon is at four forty six,
Speaker 1: and they win a game that many people will tell you, boy,
Speaker 1: this is the most exciting finished, the most exciting bowl
Speaker 1: game ever. And I can't tell you you're wrong. This
Speaker 1: win really put b y U on the map as boy,
Speaker 1: not only are they a really good team, but look
Speaker 1: how exciting they are and and and b y you
Speaker 1: really took off from here. Twenty one points in the
Speaker 1: final four minutes, one on side kick, one defensive stop,
Speaker 1: three touchdowns and you turn a forty five loss where
Speaker 1: you could easily just said, you know what, we're done,
Speaker 1: we're going home. It's not our game. We're gonna be
Speaker 1: eleven and two. Everything is gonna be fine. And instead
Speaker 1: you have McMahon, the legend of McMahon yelling to the
Speaker 1: stands the game's not over yet, and he goes and
Speaker 1: wins this game. At this point, walking around campus and
Speaker 1: and and and teams have to be looking at him, going, boy,
Speaker 1: this guy can do anything. Whatever he says, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: follow him. And and the the leader Jim McMahon is
Speaker 1: now born into public consciousness. Well, I mean that's a
Speaker 1: big deal in nineteen eight. Do you imagine this guy
Speaker 1: on a televised game in two thousand twenty, Right, this
Speaker 1: is the anti Matt hassleback, we want the ball and
Speaker 1: we're gonna win. This is a guy that says we're
Speaker 1: down twenty we're coming back to get this game, so
Speaker 1: shut up, sit down and enjoy it and backs that up.
Speaker 1: I mean, you become a legend on so many other levels.
Speaker 1: I mean, McMahon for the time because we didn't have
Speaker 1: the same level of coverage, right, so you didn't know
Speaker 1: all about him because you're thinking, this guy's at b
Speaker 1: y U, this guy's be with you, especially as you
Speaker 1: got to know Jim McMahon a little more as you
Speaker 1: got to the draft process and his arrival to Chicago,
Speaker 1: that just a different cat, you think a guy like this.
Speaker 1: He showed up for the first uh, his first meeting
Speaker 1: with coaches in Chicago, drinking a beer because he was
Speaker 1: so happy to be out of the strict regime that
Speaker 1: he had at b YU. I'm gonna bring a beer
Speaker 1: to my first meeting with my coach, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1: His big thing was he always had one of those
Speaker 1: little coolers, like the little like lunch ones that had
Speaker 1: space for six beers like that. That was his his accompaniment,
Speaker 1: gonna take it with just a character man. He was
Speaker 1: remember training camp and watching kids like he was the
Speaker 1: pie piper looking up at him as a hero. Me,
Speaker 1: I'm a nerd. I'm I'm looking for the you know,
Speaker 1: the the lineman, the wide outs and everybody else. I'm
Speaker 1: not going where the rest of the crowd is because
Speaker 1: I can go talk to these other guys as a
Speaker 1: kid where rev Story almost ran me over and gave
Speaker 1: me the best life advice Smith, never stand in front
Speaker 1: of the polling guard. Oh that's that's good advice. Well
Speaker 1: you got that too, so certainly in that process. But
Speaker 1: I got a great little uh Kurt Gunther story for you.
Speaker 1: Here me now It's like, how is he in the
Speaker 1: moment they're kicker? Dave Taylor was rudely ineligible. So Gunther
Speaker 1: sophomore walk on, literally pulled out of stats one one.
Speaker 1: This was he was studying accounting. Uh. So he goes
Speaker 1: to the season Oprah forgets his helmet. Somehow his helmet
Speaker 1: kids forgotten. I'm a kicker, right, I don't need a helmet, right,
Speaker 1: I could just tuck with somebody. They get get a
Speaker 1: guy with a friend of the program on a private
Speaker 1: jet to get him his helmet. You know, when he
Speaker 1: first started kicking for them, which is great, not for
Speaker 1: this game, but just the general of here's my genesis.
Speaker 1: But because of this, he ends up getting two years
Speaker 1: on scholarship and the bonus to finish his accounting dud.
Speaker 1: So he ends up getting the third year to to
Speaker 1: help finish his course of studies. So like just a legend.
Speaker 1: I found some great stories on him. Uh, just talking
Speaker 1: about how odd it was becoming the walk on because
Speaker 1: they suddenly needed a kicker and getting this opportunity, and
Speaker 1: he's now part of one of the big moments in
Speaker 1: college football history. B y U wins the Miracle Bowl.
Speaker 1: Coming up next, a little where are they now? More
Speaker 1: on Jim McMahon, more and what happened to s mu
Speaker 1: and maybe how the luckiest guy involved in this game
Speaker 1: was the play by play guy. It's coming up next
Speaker 1: on Special Teams, the aftermath of b y U Win.
Speaker 1: Let's begin with the final call of the Jim McMahon
Speaker 1: Hail Mary. Ray Scott play by play guy gets to
Speaker 1: call this game. Here's the thing. He had just called
Speaker 1: a big Minnesota Vikings win over the Cleveland Browns a
Speaker 1: few days ago that ended with Tommy Kramer throwing a
Speaker 1: Hail Mary to a mad Rashad that put the Vikings
Speaker 1: in the playoffs. So he gets to call back and
Speaker 1: very famous hail Mary. So you've seen it many times,
Speaker 1: and maybe we'll do a future Special Teams on that
Speaker 1: game because that was a fun game. We'll just talk
Speaker 1: about a mad rash Yeah, very good. I remember when
Speaker 1: on Mad Rashad hosted the Mole on ABC. Uh. So
Speaker 1: he gets to call that hail Mary. He calls this
Speaker 1: Hail Mary, and his call is we've done it again.
Speaker 1: So this is what the guy gets, like seven days,
Speaker 1: I'll do this game. Yeah, I'm gonna do B y
Speaker 1: U at smut and he gets to call one of
Speaker 1: the greatest college football games of all time. So maybe
Speaker 1: the luckiest guy was a play by play guy. Uh
Speaker 1: So next for these teams, SMU explodes in one absolutely explodes,
Speaker 1: Dickerson explodes, James explodes. It's everybody's exploding. Dickerson runs from
Speaker 1: nine touchdowns yards and Craig James has twelve hundred yards
Speaker 1: and nine touchdowns. This was the hey, we are here
Speaker 1: moment for SMU. But because they're on probation, they couldn't
Speaker 1: play in a bowl game, they couldn't play for the
Speaker 1: national championship. And this is how SMU of the early
Speaker 1: eighties is remembered. The Pony Express, how good Dickerson and
Speaker 1: Craig James were, and all the corruption that didn't involve
Speaker 1: in SMU becoming the next level program. The death penalty
Speaker 1: that came years after for their football program was a
Speaker 1: really big It was the biggest story in college football
Speaker 1: in the early nineteen eighties. This is what happens to
Speaker 1: s m U as a result. But b YU they
Speaker 1: take it in the other direction. Suddenly b y U
Speaker 1: is on the national stage and it's all the big
Speaker 1: teams in college football and it's b YU here. They
Speaker 1: are winning this big game, putting up all these points,
Speaker 1: and like we said earlier, this culminates in then winning
Speaker 1: the national championship in four So clearly this came a
Speaker 1: big jumping off point. However, SMU gets derailed because of
Speaker 1: the probation and b y U continues to grow their legend. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the legend of when you look at Lavella edwards career
Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy two to two thousand one place, twenty
Speaker 1: nine years to fifty seven, one oh one and three,
Speaker 1: and you look at all those double digit win campaigns
Speaker 1: that started nine seventy nine, they go eleven and one,
Speaker 1: they go twelve and one here, eleven in two, et cetera.
Speaker 1: Like now, think of the payouts and the attempts to
Speaker 1: lure him away, right and and the gamesmanship that would
Speaker 1: be going on of come on, except they lived at
Speaker 1: the Holiday Bowl. I mean they had they had to
Speaker 1: reservations every year they had to play there was That's
Speaker 1: the way it was, and this is kind of why
Speaker 1: they were the first Boise State team of the early eighties. Well,
Speaker 1: what can we do? How much can we put them
Speaker 1: into the National Championship conversation, you know, and look at
Speaker 1: their first ball win. If this was into two Bowl
Speaker 1: games before that, they lost both of them, and then
Speaker 1: they lost in the Tangerine Bowl. I missed the Tangerine ball,
Speaker 1: Tangerine Bow, the Blue Bonnet Ball. I missed those balls. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they got absolutely obliterated by Oklahoma State in the nine
Speaker 1: Tangerine Bowl down in Orlando. I missed the Blue Grand game.
Speaker 1: We've already done a special teams podcast. I lament the
Speaker 1: loss of the Blue Gray Game, so I'll continue to
Speaker 1: do so. It was great for Christmas Day. If this
Speaker 1: was a more widely recognized game that that that came
Speaker 1: to everybody off the top of their heads, it wouldn't
Speaker 1: need to be propped up. But clearly the last forty years,
Speaker 1: of the three best Bowl games, you could possibly say,
Speaker 1: it's this game, it's Texas USC National Championship and oh five,
Speaker 1: and it's Oklahoma Boise State a couple of years later,
Speaker 1: and that's the order. Those are the games. Those are
Speaker 1: the three best Bowl games of the past forties. This
Speaker 1: one sneaks in because it's eight, but Oka twenties, what
Speaker 1: we're doing, I mean, there's other ques beat beating up
Speaker 1: on Utah Bowl a couple of years ago was good.
Speaker 1: I'll say that's number four, then that'll be the fourth. Thanks,
Speaker 1: But clearly those are those are the three and and
Speaker 1: And that's how b y U was, you know, was
Speaker 1: able to just like I said, start their legend. But
Speaker 1: this game was just so good and they had another
Speaker 1: great year the year after. McMahon has one more year
Speaker 1: and he goes to the NFL, you know, fifth overall
Speaker 1: pick of the Bears, and he never materialized into being
Speaker 1: that big, pure passer. Now, granted, he was never asked
Speaker 1: to be the savior because he joined a team that
Speaker 1: had a great rushing attack that was building a tremendous defense.
Speaker 1: So hey, don't screw it up and make clutch plays
Speaker 1: when you have to. McMahon's career was then became as
Speaker 1: a leader. He would make clutch plays. But for a
Speaker 1: guy who threw forty seven touchdowns this year in college football,
Speaker 1: he never threw for more than fifteen touchdowns in a
Speaker 1: season in the NFL. I mean, I get it wasn't
Speaker 1: the age of the quarterback, but never more than fifteen
Speaker 1: touchdowns in a season in the National Footballie from a
Speaker 1: guy taking number five overall was it worth it for
Speaker 1: the Bears. Sure, eighty five Bears win their legendary McMahon's
Speaker 1: a legend, but boy out out of the number five
Speaker 1: overall pick, and that's a quarterback you kind of want
Speaker 1: more than fifteen touchdowns in a season from and some
Speaker 1: years it was eleven touchdowns twelve nine touchdowns. He just
Speaker 1: had the just never really material and that kind of
Speaker 1: prolific passer. Sixty seven and thirty for his career. As
Speaker 1: a start, he was forty six and fifteen for the Bears,
Speaker 1: about fifty eight percent completion rate, just a little over
Speaker 1: a one to one touchdown to interception ratio. But I
Speaker 1: don't want is he couldn't stay healthy. You go through
Speaker 1: the game logs eight three fourteen games, eight four nine games,
Speaker 1: five thirteen games, eleven starts, eighty six six games, eighty
Speaker 1: seven seven games. You get the point. Only three more
Speaker 1: times in his career when he hit double digit games played,
Speaker 1: and that was once he was in San Diego for
Speaker 1: a year, and then a year in Philadelphia and then
Speaker 1: a year in Minnesota when he started doing the Shaquille
Speaker 1: O'Neil kind of thing. We need that veteran quarterback to
Speaker 1: help bring a guy along who's a good break class
Speaker 1: and glass in case of emergency. Guy. So went from
Speaker 1: the Bears to the Chargers, to the Eagles, to the Vikings,
Speaker 1: to Arizona to the Packers. Uh where again he he
Speaker 1: he gets to win again. But it's which is always curious.
Speaker 1: But yeah, back to quarterback for yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: so for all of it. He just he just couldn't
Speaker 1: stay healthy. But a beloved icon in Chicago. Whenever he
Speaker 1: does a spot or shows up at a charity event,
Speaker 1: everybody wants a piece of them just because you know
Speaker 1: that year, I mean, unfortunately fans and for me, other
Speaker 1: than a Rex Grossman led appearance against Peyton Manning where
Speaker 1: the highlight was Prince singing in the rain, sure, uh there,
Speaker 1: there's not been a lot to cheer about there, you know.
Speaker 1: And McMahon also goes down, is this is one of
Speaker 1: the first quarterbacks that teams would say, a prolific guy
Speaker 1: in college in a wide open offense is not going
Speaker 1: to translate to success in the NFL. And then quarterbacks
Speaker 1: like this had to fight against that stigma for a while.
Speaker 1: And McMahon was one of those first time forty seven
Speaker 1: touchdowns over thirty touchdowns the senior years. There for seventy
Speaker 1: seven touchdowns his final two years. And he gets to
Speaker 1: the NFL and it's okay, he's not the guy we
Speaker 1: thought he was because he comes from a quirky offense
Speaker 1: that does things a little bit differently. He's not from
Speaker 1: one of the Power five big conferences, and and that's
Speaker 1: something that was a general belief by many NFL t this.
Speaker 1: So he started to see guys come out of these
Speaker 1: spread offenses and really light him up in the past
Speaker 1: few years of the National Football League. All right, So
Speaker 1: coming off this game, he mentioned some big players, some
Speaker 1: Super Bowl winning head coaches. How about somewhere are they now?
Speaker 1: Mr Harman, we go to Vasikahema. He is your sports
Speaker 1: director and anchor NBC ten in Philly. I gotta take
Speaker 1: the chuck off them's been there a long time doing that.
Speaker 1: He ran a put back for a touchdown in this game.
Speaker 1: Earlier in we didn't get to talk about him a
Speaker 1: lot because it was in the first three quarters when
Speaker 1: b Yu was getting drugged. But he did have a
Speaker 1: big punt return for a touchdown in this game early on.
Speaker 1: There you go, Scott Phillips, Uh, it would eventually become
Speaker 1: a fourth round pick for Seattle. He's a wealth management
Speaker 1: advisor for Northwestern Mutual. Matthew Braga, who we talked about
Speaker 1: with a big play and one that shouldn't uh. He
Speaker 1: now sells medical devices, so you know he he was
Speaker 1: able to sell that catch and now he doesn't work
Speaker 1: from Medtronic. Hey, listen, I can sell anything. I sold
Speaker 1: that touchdown in the ADI Holiday Ball. All right, what
Speaker 1: do I need to buy? What do you need to buy?
Speaker 1: I can sell you anything. Well, and then you've got
Speaker 1: Homo who is the A D at b y U.
Speaker 1: He was a college football head coach for a while. Yeah,
Speaker 1: now he's six years with the forty Niners as a
Speaker 1: safety and then coached at b y U and Stanford
Speaker 1: with the forty niners again as a position coach, and
Speaker 1: then at cal UH and now he's the A D.
Speaker 1: On the other side, you look at some SMU. You
Speaker 1: mentioned Lance mclaney good at the two Step s VP
Speaker 1: real Estate and Contracts for Lincoln Property Company. Michael Charles
Speaker 1: biz systems consultant for McDonald's, Lee Spivey insurance broker, and
Speaker 1: then Richard Neely Family Trust Private Equity real estate on
Speaker 1: the guys getting into real estate, you know, taken advantage
Speaker 1: of those big swaths of land in Texas. Can you
Speaker 1: tell me that story about the Yes, I will you
Speaker 1: gonna buy this house? Yes? If you tell me that story?
Speaker 1: All right, where do you want me? What did you
Speaker 1: guys really do to get you know? The title? East?
Speaker 1: Come on so there. It is one of the best
Speaker 1: college football games of all time. At worst, it's the
Speaker 1: third best bowl game of the past forty years. That's
Speaker 1: how big it was. The Miracle Bowl won by b
Speaker 1: y U over SMU. I'm Jason Smith, He's Mike Carmen.
Speaker 1: Our show is heard on Fox Sports Radio Monday through Friday,
Speaker 1: ten pm to two am on the East Coast, seven
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