1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: Quody does, but Joseph's gotten more. Many times we wonder 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: why certain individuals choose a particular profession. There's any number 3 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: of motivations, you know, behind it. Maybe it's a generational thing. 4 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: Maybe you're trying to listen to your own inner voice 5 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: and you go down a path that no one had 6 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:42,599 Speaker 1: ever expected. But then there are those individuals that they 7 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: seek out positions where they can be in power. It 8 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: doesn't really matter that they don't have much substance to them, 9 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: or that they don't bring anything edifye to the table. 10 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about a case. Actually, it's dismissive 11 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 1: to say a case. It's not singular cases. And the 12 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: reason I say case is we're going to talk about 13 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: a triple homicide involving one such individual who possibly sought 14 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: out employment as a law enforcement officer so that he 15 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,960 Speaker 1: could quote unquote be in charge. Say Morgan, why would 16 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: you say that law enforcement aficer he's going to be 17 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: in charge? Yeah, I guess you could question that, But 18 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: you know, this guy was not only previously a law 19 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: enforcement aulser, he was also a sitting mayor. The only 20 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: difference is is that with him, he's a true ble 21 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: homicide suspect. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body backs, Dave. 22 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: Don't you hate to be around folks that are, I 23 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 1: don't know, self endowed with power? I guess they they 24 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: It's always been the measure to me that if you 25 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: have power and you choose not to wield it, that 26 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 1: you hold it in reserve. It's always the quiet person 27 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: in the room, isn't it. They say, that's the most 28 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: dangerous person in the room that has power, but yet 29 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: they choose not to overstep the boundaries of good, good taste. 30 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: That's the person I'm concerned about. But you get somebody 31 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: that's bombastic and really full of themselves. Though those people 32 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: are kind of nauseating to me. 33 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 2: Well, you got the old thing of the loudest person 34 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 2: in the room is the weakest, and the inverse course, 35 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 2: the quietest person is the strike if you're if you're 36 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 2: truly strong and powerful and know who you are, you 37 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 2: don't have to be like as a matter of fact, 38 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 2: you can just listen, you know. Oh yeah, I remember 39 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 2: Uncle Polly and Goodfellas that, Oh yeah, he would he 40 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 2: would never he never wanted people to hear what he 41 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 2: was saying. But he never wanted people to hear what 42 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 2: he was being told, either that the power of. 43 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 1: PAULI didn't even own a phone. He didn't even own 44 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: a phone. There you go, do all the calls from 45 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: from the pay phone, you know, uh yeah, you're right. Yeah, 46 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: And you know Pollie continuing that that thread the narrator 47 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: uh uh you know says that Paully didn't move fast 48 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: because Pauli didn't. 49 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 2: Have to exactly. 50 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: But today's you know, today's case cases. Again, I hate 51 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: to keep saying a case in the singular that we're 52 00:03:58,400 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: going to be discussing in. 53 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 2: One case with three victims. 54 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: There you go, yeah, yeah, it is one case. However, 55 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: I will, I will, I will let people know that 56 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: first off, obviously we have three homicide victims here, and 57 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: folks might think about this and maybe have never considered, 58 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: did you know, at the medical Examiner's office and in 59 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: a corner's office, if you have like a multiple homicide 60 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: we signed, we assign separate case numbers or what in 61 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: the medical examiner world, they're called a session numbers to 62 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: each individual. And it's not just a matter of honoring 63 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: their humanity or anything like that. It's to keep them 64 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: separate because with three three homicide victims, guess what, that's 65 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: a that's three counts, that's three counts of homicide. And 66 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: so each individual has to be stood up for essentially, 67 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: and that investigation is separate, it's separate, but yet they 68 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: come together. And and you know, when you're when you're 69 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: talking about an individual that that commits an act like this, 70 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: you really have to wonder where their mind is at. 71 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: And you know what I thought, Dave, I got to 72 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: tell you, I had this moment when I was reading 73 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: the story and I was thinking, anybody, anybody could have 74 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: fallen into the sights of this guy, if you'd just 75 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: shown up at that single standing structure up there in 76 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: South Dakota where this case cases take place, if you 77 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: just showed, if you if you had been on the stoop, 78 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: you'd be dead as well. 79 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 2: And I thought, I thought. 80 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: A lot about that. I remember thinking a lot about 81 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: that as an investigator many years ago. And that's a 82 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: it's a horrible thing, but it was. It was always 83 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: very chilling. You know, the old adage of there but 84 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: for the grace of God go I it applies, and 85 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: that you know that you you're part for some reason 86 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: that you weren't in that space, and that happens with 87 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 1: multiple homicides. Many times people just absolutely go nuts and 88 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: they start randomly killing people day. 89 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 2: Well, Jay Austrom is the former mayor of Centerville, South Dakota. 90 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 2: He's also a former sheriff's deputy, and at sixty four 91 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 2: years old, his wife, Victoria, tells him that she had 92 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: been drinking with a neighbor and the neighbor forcibly kissed 93 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 2: her and showed her his genitals. That's where all of 94 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: this begins. Having drinks and Jay Austrom allegedly grabs his gun. 95 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: Well don't know if he had to grab it from 96 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 2: the house, because his wife said he had guns in 97 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 2: the car, and he decided, I'm going to teach that 98 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 2: man a lesson about messing with another man's wife. And 99 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 2: if you remember Leroy Brown, I mean as a junkyard dog, well, 100 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 2: Jay Austrom, he was as mean as a junkyard dog, 101 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: and anybody in his wake was going to be in 102 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 2: trouble that night, allegedly, So you've laid it out perfectly, Joe, 103 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 2: that if you had been on this stoop, as is 104 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 2: kind of the case here with the three victims, the 105 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: one who calls nine one one actually had been shot 106 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: and actually during the nine one one call dies or 107 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 2: at least cannot shock. Yeah, he goes silent. 108 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: But isn't that a chilling thing? Can you? I've always 109 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: you know, one job I would never want to have, 110 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: and God bless him, I've had to talk to him 111 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: for years. Are the people in headquarters that are that 112 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: are part of the people that work the radio is 113 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: relative to the police, and many times they'll be housed together. Okay, 114 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: it depends upon the size of the of the department. 115 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: You'll have people that are receiving nine to eleven calls. 116 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: They'll kick it over to dispatch, or some times they're 117 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: one and the same. That job, to me as tough 118 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: as being a death investigator was. And the things that 119 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: we see. Can you imagine being in this end it 120 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: is it's like this big dark room that's light that's 121 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: lighted with the glow of all the computers and the 122 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: keyboards and all of that stuff, and you hear all 123 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: of these things on the other end of those lines, 124 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: people that are in the worst conditions that you can imagine, 125 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: and then you don't really know what happens. I can't 126 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: imagine that operator that was on the other end of 127 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: the line and she's getting information from this guy and 128 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: he's asking for help, and then all of a sudden, 129 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: line goes dead, silent, and that job in and of itself, 130 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 1: I don't think I could do it. It's a very 131 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: difficult time. I mean, God bless everybody that works in 132 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: nine to eleven. It is a tough, tough job. I 133 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: don't see how you decompress from it after doing the 134 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: things that they do. 135 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tough. I think that's why. I think that's 136 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 2: why when a nine to one one operator makes a 137 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 2: mistake by being cold or whatever and we hear it 138 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: that they get judged very harshly because it doesn't happen often. 139 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 2: They actually do maintain an even strain they have to, 140 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 2: and I'm with you as shocking. I can't imagine what 141 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 2: you do, and I can't imagine the helpless feeling, because 142 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 2: when somebody calls nine to one one, they're not calling 143 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 2: a daughter at pizza. They're ordering it, usually because something 144 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 2: worse than they ever imagine happening has happened to them, 145 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 2: and they are the ones having to make the call. 146 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:43,079 Speaker 2: And in this particular case, the victims here, Joe, are 147 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 2: all three young men, Paul Franks, his brother Zach Franks, 148 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 2: and Timothy Richmond. Paul Franks is twenty six. He's the 149 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 2: one that is alleged to have been inappropriate with Jay 150 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 2: Edward Ostrom's wife. Now I've been trying to find out 151 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 2: how old Victory or Austrom is. I went to her 152 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 2: Facebook page and looked at some things there, and she 153 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 2: does look younger, yes, than her husband, but I can't 154 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 2: find an actual age. And the reason I'm saying that 155 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 2: is because again, Paul Francs is twenty six, his brother 156 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 2: Zach is twenty one, and the other one victim, Timothy Richmond, 157 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 2: is thirty five. I believe Timothy Richmond was in the 158 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 2: wrong place at the wrong time and was just as 159 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 2: you mentioned, kind of sitting on the stoop when everything 160 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 2: went down. But Jay Austrom was out for revenge. She 161 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 2: was out to teach a man a lesson. And if 162 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 2: you're you know what, Joe, if you show up with 163 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 2: a bat or a golf club or something to threaten 164 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 2: another man for doing something inappropriate with your wife, and 165 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 2: all you do is get into a shuffle, a scuffle, 166 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 2: you know, pushing and shoving, that's one thing. But he 167 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 2: shows up with not just one type. He has a shotgun, 168 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 2: but he also has a pistol. He's got multiple weapons here. 169 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: And the reason we know that platform exactly our platform rifle, 170 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: yeah as well, and that goes you know, that goes 171 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: to this, you know, the again, people are going to 172 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:14,079 Speaker 1: talk about it, the premeditative factor here. You know, which 173 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: do you show up. And it's a good point that 174 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: you make. We could argue, I guess extensively about a 175 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 1: baseball bat, and if you're demonstrating deadly forced with a 176 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: baseball bat, you can sell it to certain people. But 177 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: if you're trying to sell it to me, comparing that 178 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,199 Speaker 1: to even a three eighty, which is a very tiny 179 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: one of the smaller calibers of pistol rounds. 180 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 2: That one of the mentioned here, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 181 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 2: And to be clear, okay, Joe, well let's back up 182 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 2: for a minute. You mentioned the ar platform. What specifically 183 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 2: are you talking about. 184 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 1: Well, you know, people use a r and for whatever 185 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: reason they think that are means assault rifle. That's not 186 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: a real term. I was in the military. We never 187 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: used assault rifle. You know, it's just just the term 188 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: that has been manufactured. AR actually originates from the name, 189 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 1: which is a brand called Armolite and Armorlite is you 190 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: got to go all the way back to, you know, 191 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: the first the first M sixteen rifles, which are you know, 192 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: it's like in the family tree of these AR platforms. 193 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 1: The M sixteen rifle is the first thing that our 194 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: troops had that was kind of a new space ag 195 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: kind of weapon back during the Vietnam era, because you know, 196 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: we're coming out of the first The first weapon that 197 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: we had that was really introduced as a infantry weapon 198 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: in the Vietnam era was the M fourteen, which is 199 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: just kind of a variant on the weapon that was 200 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: used in World War Two, which was the N one Grant. 201 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: It's just that you know, M fourteen fire seven point 202 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: sixty two or like a three h eight round, like 203 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: a deer deer hunting round, very bold, robust. Some units 204 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: still carry them, but really bulky wooden stock and it 205 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: would warp. The stock would actually warp in Vietnam because 206 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: it was a wooden It was a wooden but that 207 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: the M sixteen, the Armorlite didn't because it's made out 208 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: of a composite. Now, they would foul really easily, and 209 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: they'd have jamming problems. We had jamming problems even when 210 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: I qualified with it way back in the early eighties. 211 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: It but the round is so much smaller. It's five 212 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: point five six millimeter or zero point two two three caliber, 213 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: which are two different measuring systems. And when I say 214 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: point two two three to give you an idea the 215 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: size of the round itself, when we're talking about the 216 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: diameter of the round that's in the same family as 217 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: a twenty two caliber, it's just that you've got more 218 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: power behind it. It's not like a tiny little shell 219 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: casing like you have with a twenty two rifle. This 220 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: is a small caliber round that's being driven out by 221 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of propellant. And so the velocity on 222 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: the thing is pretty remarkable, but the damage is questionable 223 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: when you compare it to the seven point six two So. 224 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 2: Ed right back up, because you mentioned velocity, how does 225 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 2: the velocity versus the size of the round account for 226 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 2: the injuries cause? Meaning, is a bigger round at a 227 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 2: slower velocity going to do more damage than a small 228 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: one and a fast last? 229 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: Right? Yeah? And so you know there there are many 230 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: accounts of people being shot in combat. And you can 231 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: even hear this from spec Ops guys that have had 232 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: to carry the five point five six. You know, they 233 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: can put and these guys are really good at what 234 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: they do. 235 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 2: I feel so stupid. Armorlite rifle was what they are that. 236 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so it's you know, it's just it's one 237 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: of those convenient terms that political types have used, you know, 238 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: to try to reemphasize this idea of assault rifle, the 239 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: five point five six when it's fired. I'm using these 240 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: terms interchangeable five point five six and two two three, 241 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: and there is a slight difference, but it's in the 242 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: same family. You know, when when there are many accounts 243 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: out there where people even in spec Ops community, where 244 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: they're putting rounds on target with five point five six 245 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: and they're having to shoot multiple times because sometimes, you know, 246 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: individuals will not even be aware that they've been shot. 247 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: It's such a tiny ground. Whereas if you get shot 248 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: with a seven point six y two, which is the 249 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: equivalent of zero point three eight, which is like Grandpappy's 250 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: deer hunting rifle, if you're going to take down you know, 251 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: a deer or maybe an elk, it's going to be 252 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: sufficient to the task. It's going to deliver that energy 253 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: through a round that has much more mass, you know. 254 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: And we hear that about stopping power, you know, people 255 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: we use that term, and it's really kind of people 256 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: don't really know what that means, the stopping power, because 257 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: I don't know that it's necessarily measurable as many people think. 258 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: But I do know this. I do know that from 259 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: what we're being told that this fellow, this former mayor 260 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: and former police officer, in not just one but two 261 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: separate jurisdictions, he showed up ready for any number of 262 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 1: possibilities because it wasn't just one weapon. He apparently showed 263 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: up the three. So apparently, Dave, what I am understanding 264 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: is that we've got about four days that elapsed between 265 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 1: the time that Jay Ostram's wife was approached or, as 266 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: she had put it, you know, kind of exposed to 267 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: this individual that she was drinking with. Interesting thing though, 268 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 1: that I have discovered is that the exposure that she 269 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: was subjected to took place, Dave, actually in her own home. 270 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: It took place as as Jay Edward Ostrom was asleep 271 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: in his home. He's asleep, his wife is still there 272 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 1: drinking with a man. Can I interject something here real quick? 273 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:34,239 Speaker 1: If if the shoe were on the other foot, and 274 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 1: it were Kim and I my precious wife, and I 275 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: was sitting up in my house drinking with some woman 276 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 1: from down the street, and literally this person is from 277 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 1: down the street and my wife is sleeping in the house. 278 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: I can tell you I don't know what would happen, 279 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: what she would do to the woman, but I would 280 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 1: have hell to pay, I can tell you, you know, And 281 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I wouldn't do this, you know. It's just 282 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: it's an odd set of circumstances to me. And the 283 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 1: fact that that he was in her space and in 284 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 1: in Ostroum space as well, that that gives us an 285 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: indication that there's a pre existing relationship here, that this 286 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: guy felt comfortable enough to be in Ostrom's domicile with 287 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: his wife and they're all partaking. Ostrom's asleep. Now we 288 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: don't know if he passed out or not, but alcohol 289 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 1: does play a role in this, which we'll come back 290 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: to in just a moment. But don't you don't you 291 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: find this dynamic a bit a bit odd, Dave. 292 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,919 Speaker 2: When people drink with neighbors they tend to drink because 293 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 2: you I was going to say, tend to drink to 294 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 2: excess because they're not going anywhere, you know, And that's 295 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 2: who are dealing with. We are dealing with neighbors here 296 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 2: that have been neighbors for a while and they are 297 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 2: just they're drinking socially, what have you. And Jay goes 298 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 2: to bed in his own house and this continues on. 299 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 2: Victoria tells him about it later on, again not knowing 300 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 2: all of the ins and outs of their relationship. I 301 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 2: mentioned earlier when we first started that I'm trying to 302 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 2: find out more about Victoria the wife because Jay Austrom, 303 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 2: Just so you know, Jay Austrom was involved in law 304 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 2: enforcement as a career for a long time, long time, 305 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 2: and he knows better than to approach the situation with 306 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 2: a weapon. He knows better, And I think he'll be 307 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 2: judged harsher because of this, because. 308 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: Dude, you are absolutely on the money with this, even 309 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: if he's no longer a practicing law enforcement office officer. 310 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: He knows where the guardrails are, Dave. 311 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 2: Yes, And most adult men know where I say men, 312 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 2: but most adults know the guardrails. Most people in relationships 313 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,360 Speaker 2: know there's a boundary you don't cross. Okay, you have. 314 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 2: You're in the man's home. You're having drinks, you know, socializing. 315 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 2: That's what we're dealing with here, just socializing having drinks. Now, 316 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 2: Jay Austram goes to bed. Then this allegedly happens where 317 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 2: the neighbor forcibly kisses the man's wife and exposes himself. 318 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 2: I don't know what their relationships are, but I don't. 319 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: And that's a curious thing. You know. It took Okay, 320 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: so let me just so so our friends understand what 321 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 1: we're talking about. As far as taught the time element 322 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: and this this goes to something I've always wanted to 323 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: discuss with you. I got to tell you. It's something 324 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: I learned in an undergraduate criminal law class. And dig this. 325 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: Let me lay this on you. I think you might 326 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: find this interesting. But let's let's let's lay this out first. 327 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: So this event, this drinking event in this home, this 328 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: was on May the twenty third, and we're talking May 329 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: twenty third, twenty twenty four here. It was four days. 330 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: It was four days later when Jay Ostrom takes up 331 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: these weapons and goes and perpetrates these crimes. Four days 332 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: alleged alleged thank you, you're right, brother Dave, allegedly allegedly 333 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: got I gotta lay something on you. I love this, 334 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: this little aside that I learned in an undergraduate criminal 335 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: law class that I took in New Orleans so many 336 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: years ago, and it was taught by a guy that 337 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: was a former prosecutor in Orleans Parish, and it had 338 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 1: to do with state law in Louisiana. And I want 339 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: you to dig this language. He was trying to give 340 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 1: us an indication, you know how there are degrees of homicide. 341 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: You've got first second in that sort of thing. And 342 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: this idea of and there's an old term that they 343 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: use in Louisiana, by the way, is uh it's it's 344 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: not part of English common law. Their criminal code is 345 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: based on the Napoleonic Code. It's the only state in 346 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 1: the US where it has that that uh, that designation 347 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: at any rate. There's a term that they use to 348 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 1: kind of delineate between a crime of passion and something 349 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 1: that required a bit more thought. And it's called dig. 350 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 1: This is called the heating and cooling of blood. H 351 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: And let me let me give you the example that 352 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: he said, if a guy if a guy comes home 353 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: in the middle of the day, and I think he 354 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: had worked a case like this, If a oor head 355 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: defended or prosecuted case like this, and he would. He 356 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: cited this example several times. He said, if a guy 357 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 1: comes home from work in the middle of the day 358 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 1: and finds his wife in bed with another man, and 359 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: there's a baseball bat right there at his fingertips, and 360 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: he grabs a baseball bat and beats them both to death, 361 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: by law, his blood has not had sufficient amount of 362 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: time to cool. Okay, same scenario, only the guy comes 363 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: into his house, sees his wife in bed with another man, 364 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, maybe looks through the crack in the door, 365 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: turns on his heel, walks out the door, gets in 366 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: his car, leaves, goes down to the local watering hole, 367 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: sits there and has a beer. Sits there, gets back 368 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: in his vehicle, drives to the house, and then walks 369 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: in the house, grabs a baseball bat and beats him 370 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: to death. He's had sufficient of tom for his blood 371 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: to have cooled. The trick here is this in this 372 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: particular case. Do when did she tell him about this? 373 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 1: Did she tell him about this? The next morning? On 374 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 1: the morning of the twenty fourth or whatever it was. 375 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: Or did she say, honey, this happened back the other 376 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: night on the twenty third, and you know, do something 377 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: about it, or this happened in that amount of Tom 378 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 1: actually had he? 379 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, she told him that night. She told him the 380 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 2: night this happened, right before it happened. That's when she 381 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 2: told him this happened on the twenty third while they 382 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 2: were drinking at the Austrom home while Jay was asleep. 383 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 2: But she waited until the twenty seventh, when they were 384 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 2: having a few drinks again, and that's when Victoria Austrom 385 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 2: tells Jay Austrom what had taken place the other night. 386 00:25:53,960 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 2: And that's Jay immediately got on he saw red, and 387 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 2: she said he went quote raging out of the house. Now, remember, Joe, 388 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 2: it's not a long drive. It's across the street. These 389 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 2: people are neighbors. 390 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: Five doors down. Or is it that it approximates? That 391 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 1: doesn't mean something their neighbors. Yes, this is yet and 392 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: they're socialb neighbors. 393 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 2: So yeah, it wasn't like he had a long time 394 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 2: to cool off before he got there. He's seeing red. 395 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 2: They did say he smelled of alcohol that night, so 396 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 2: you have to know you don't have to assume. I'm 397 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 2: going to assume because he has, you know, smelling like 398 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 2: alcohol that he and his wife are drinking. She said, Hey, 399 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 2: the other night, been wanting to tell you this, but 400 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 2: this is what happened when you went to bed and boom, 401 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 2: Jay's matt Wow. 402 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,439 Speaker 1: So had he had sufficient amount of time for his 403 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: blood to have cooled or what was boiling is boiling? 404 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: Raging as he leaves the house, Joe Holy smokes, so 405 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 1: that that puts this in maybe a different light. You 406 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: think about the alcohol, and we're not excusing this, But 407 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: what I'm saying is I think that moving forward with 408 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: the prosecution in this case, that's something that's going to 409 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: be factored in. Alcohol is going to be factored in 410 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: as well, because you know, any defense attorney worth their 411 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 1: salt is going to say that. You know that, Look, 412 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: this guy was under tremendous pressure. He's just been told this. 413 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: He thinks his wife's been sexually assaulted and he wants 414 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: he wants revenge for it. But you know, you think 415 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: about three guys, you know, three guys, it would it's 416 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 1: it's one of the things where you think about, well, 417 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 1: wouldn't he target this specific person that had done this. Well, 418 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: maybe he didn't have clarity of mind. Maybe he was 419 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: so enraged he just went into a blind rage. Let's 420 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: see if they use the old blackout defense. I mean, 421 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: Tom said, we I think you were talking about the 422 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 1: the other the day, you know, where people say, yeah, 423 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: I don't. They remember everything except the moment when they 424 00:27:58,880 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: committed to crime. 425 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 2: I can remember I trimmed three of my eyebrow hairs 426 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 2: and a nosehair, and then I blacked out and woke 427 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 2: up five minutes later with blood all over me and 428 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 2: a dead person in the trunk of my car. I 429 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 2: don't know how it happened. 430 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 1: I don't know how it happened exactly. Shoot or no shoot. 431 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,679 Speaker 1: That's kind of the litmus test under stressful situations that 432 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: police have to learn when to engage a target or not. 433 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: There's so many factors that go into using what's specifically 434 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: referred to as deadly force. Police are trained on this 435 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: as a matter of fact. You have to go to 436 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: the range several times a year to qualify with your weapon. 437 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: You're put through testing. They'll take you to a shoot 438 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: house or maybe a digital shoot house and you're having 439 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: to make these decisions. This is not a world that 440 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: Austrom would not have been familiar with, Dave. You know, 441 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: over all of these years in law enforcement, and of 442 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: course as an administrator, a mayor of a city, he 443 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: has to deal with these things because there's incidents involving 444 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: the police force. 445 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 2: Now you mentioned that this just happened in May of 446 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. We're not talking about something that happened 447 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 2: ten years ago, you know, Joe. In nineteen ninety four, 448 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 2: as a police officer, Jay Austrom shot and killed a man. 449 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 2: He was a suicidal man with a gun who pointed 450 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 2: it to Jay Austrom's partner. Jay Austrom shot the man 451 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 2: and killed him. In two thousand, there was a lawsuit 452 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 2: filed by Patrick Wayne Dalby, who was the suspect in 453 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 2: the robbery of a clothing store. He filed a suit 454 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 2: claiming unnecessary force, claiming that Austrom struck him several times 455 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 2: around the back, head, face and i with the rifle 456 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 2: and fired two shots, and that by hitting him in 457 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 2: the head in the eye caused him to lose his 458 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 2: left eye. Well, judge looked at it and said, no, 459 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 2: he did exactly what he needed to do. Jay Austrom, 460 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 2: not guilty of anything, sent the man to prison. The 461 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 2: other case was in two thousand and one, a year later. 462 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 2: In this case, it was a domestic dispute where a 463 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 2: woman shows up at her sister's house and she says, 464 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 2: my husband has been beating me. The sister calls police. 465 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 2: My sister just showed up my house husband beating her. 466 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 2: He's on his way over here. While on the phone 467 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 2: with police, the woman's husband shows up. Jay Austrom is 468 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 2: sent out there to protect and serve. Right, he gets 469 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 2: out there and the man, Michael Owens, is going kind 470 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 2: of nutso and Jay Austroman his partner end up shooting 471 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 2: the guy ten times and he dies well. They file 472 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 2: a lawsuit against Jay Astroman as a partner, saying they 473 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 2: used unnecessary force. Blah blah blah. Anyway, judge ruled on 474 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,959 Speaker 2: the side of Jay Austrom. So two times he shoots 475 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 2: men dead and another time he beats a guy to 476 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 2: the point where he loses his eye, and all three 477 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 2: times judges ruled on the side of Jay Austrom. Is 478 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 2: that what Jay Astrom is used to now doing what 479 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 2: he feels is necessary and being backed up by a judge. 480 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:04,239 Speaker 2: Did Jay Austram do what he felt was necessary and 481 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 2: expects a judge to rule on it on his path? 482 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 2: I don't know, but it could be Joe. He could 483 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 2: be conditioned to believe that he can get away with this. 484 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: There's a pattern that's developing here. And I'm not saying 485 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: that every cop doesn't have a pattern that comes along 486 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: with them. You develop these behaviors along the way, and 487 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: these are and what's kind of interesting about this day 488 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: and it can happen anywhere. Don't get me wrong. These 489 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: are very small jurisdictions this guy's working in. It's not 490 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: like you have a vast number of opportunities they're going 491 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: to present themselves, you know, relative to that. And I 492 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: don't know if that's necessarily an accurate measure, but when 493 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: you you know, you think about that, and you think 494 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: about how small the population is where he's practicing. He 495 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: was actually practicing as a deputy sheriff in Wyoming, and 496 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: then he comes to South Dakota and winds up practicing 497 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: in law enforcement for a number of years. And then 498 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: that's when he becomes a mayor. You know, he's elected 499 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: to the mayorship of this town Centerville. Yeah, and he 500 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: he winds up being charged or sued, I guess is 501 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: the more accurate term for sexual harassment, which I think 502 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: that that suit originated with the chief of the police 503 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: in the town, Rachel. 504 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 2: It was a female Rachel Comtman. 505 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: So I don't you know, we talk a lot about 506 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: establishment of boundaries in this sort of thing, and that 507 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: brings us in a way back to those incidences on 508 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: the night of May the twenty seventh. Are we talking 509 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: about a person that's just like a ticking time bomb? 510 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,719 Speaker 1: I don't know. But when he he left that house 511 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: that night after his wife had told him about what happened, 512 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: She's not the one that reached out to the cops. 513 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: She she stayed in the house. Was she fearful? Was 514 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: was she you know, did she suspect anything? You had 515 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: stated that that she said, well, he had guns in 516 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: his car, right, but you know, he wasn't. He wasn't 517 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: showing up at the house to have a game of 518 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: patty cake with anybody. He showed up at this house 519 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: armed with multiple weapon platforms. 520 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 2: Dave. They asked her, you know, did he get did 521 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 2: he grab a weapon before he left? That was there 522 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 2: because she said he left in a rage. And it's 523 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 2: obvious question, well, did he like go to the gun cabinet? 524 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 2: Was he a gun overbear? And she said no, he 525 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 2: just left. He was in a rage and left. 526 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: Or did he make a comment, you know, I'm going 527 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: to kill the so and so's, I'm going to do 528 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: this and that. But if you if you're already armed, 529 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: and you know, it's interesting because he chose the three 530 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: weapons involved here are so vastly different. You've got a 531 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: three eighty pistol, which many people refer to as a 532 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: pocket pistol. As a matter of fact, our friends that 533 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: are listening right now, if you'll if you'll just extend 534 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: the palm of your hand, just for a moment, the 535 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 1: palm up. A three eighty in many configurations will literally 536 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: fit in the palm of your hand. And I'm not 537 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 1: talking about putting your finger through the trigger or anything. 538 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,320 Speaker 1: I'm just talking about, you know, and some people refer 539 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 1: to it as a pocket pistol. Some people the old 540 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 1: term used to be a belly gun because it's easily concealable, 541 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: all right, and it fires a point three eight to 542 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: zero cartridge semi automatic. That means that it doesn't have 543 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 1: a wheel, okay for people that are familiar with the revolvers. 544 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: It's got a little indwelling magazine it can hold, you know, 545 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,919 Speaker 1: depended upon the platform it can you know, it might 546 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 1: hold eight eight rounds okay, or it might hold seven rounds. 547 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 1: Then he's got a shotgun, and we don't know the 548 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: gauge of the shotgun. Presumably it's probably a twelve gauge. 549 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 1: That's the most common gauge that's out there. It's what 550 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: cops are most used to. And then he's got an 551 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: AR rifle. Now there are many there are many different 552 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 1: calibers for ar platforms. You can have the standard five 553 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 1: point five six, which I mentioned earlier, but you know 554 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: they may ar platforms now that have three eights, you know, 555 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: which is the original M fourteen rounds. So it's it's 556 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 1: just the shape of the rifle. But he showed up 557 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: with all of these platforms, TAVI, and i'm I'm and 558 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 1: if you'll permit me. When you work a crime scene 559 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: and you've got multiple weapon platforms, most of the time 560 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:40,919 Speaker 1: you're you're thinking about okay if if in fact, I've 561 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: got three rounds. Most of the time you're not thinking 562 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: you've got one shooter, and that it's mind blowing that 563 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 1: you show up and you've got three separate types of 564 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: calibers or gauges that are at the scene. When he 565 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: was finally arrested, he had spent twelve gage shotgun shells 566 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: in his pocket, and that was fascinating to me because 567 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: that demonstrates to me that he has an awareness of 568 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: what he's done. He's going around and he's picking up 569 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: spent shell casings. And not only did he have spent 570 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 1: shotgun shell casings, he had rifle shell casings spent in 571 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 1: his pocket. So that goes you know, they stated, you know, 572 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 1: after he had been arrested, that they smelled alcohol on him, 573 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: and so any defense attorney that's going to try to say, well, 574 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: he was inebriated beyond the point of understanding what he 575 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: was doing, well, actually, counselor, it could be argued that 576 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: he had an awareness to go back and pick up 577 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 1: any kind of rounds that were in the hall. 578 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:49,719 Speaker 2: Why would a cop do that, Joe? 579 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:50,360 Speaker 1: Why would it? 580 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 2: Because hey man, he was thinking, yeah, I need to 581 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 2: get the evidence because if he kills all of these guys, 582 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 2: all three of them die and there are no witness 583 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 2: is picking up those shells. He can tell any story 584 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 2: he wants to tell. 585 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, you absolutely can, and you're removing The next step 586 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 1: you would think probably would be to get rid of 587 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: the weapons at that point in time. You're going to 588 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: cut them up, you're going to melt them down, you're 589 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: going to throw them the river, You're going to do 590 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: whatever it is that you have to do to put 591 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,840 Speaker 1: as much distance, because this guy would have had a 592 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,360 Speaker 1: basic understanding of forensic practice and what we do at 593 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: the crime scenes. And you know, when you have this 594 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: kind of event and this is a this is a 595 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: very I know, I use this term alot. It's a 596 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 1: very dynamic, which what I'm saying is a lot of 597 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 1: movement is going on. You said, Morgan, that's kind of obvious. 598 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,919 Speaker 1: You're damn right, it's obvious because you've got a guy 599 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:47,240 Speaker 1: that's actively shooting in a small space in a house, 600 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 1: and there's three adult males. Now we don't know what 601 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,760 Speaker 1: their status was. We don't know if they were inebriated, 602 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: we don't know if they were passed out, sleeping, we 603 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: don't know if all three of them were aware, and 604 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 1: he lined them up against the wall. But here's the problem. 605 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: He's swapping platforms because we know that one fellow was 606 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,800 Speaker 1: shot with a shotgun, because the guy that actually called 607 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: it in stated there was a man shooting a shotgun 608 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 1: in the house. He's on the line. This guy actually, 609 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: as you'd mentioned, actually died Dave as he's on the 610 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 1: phone with nine to eleven. And this scene is going 611 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 1: to be an absolute mess because I can't imagine that 612 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: he picked up every single shell casing. And there will 613 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: be evidence that you can find. There will be trajectories 614 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,840 Speaker 1: of this rounds that are passing through bodies, passing through walls, 615 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: and when you see this thing demonstrated in court, which 616 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: it will be, I'm sure you're going to have all 617 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: of these trajectory patterns that are running all over the 618 00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 1: place because these guys are running for their lives. This 619 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: individual that shows up Astrom, he's targeting each one of them. 620 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: The question is was he moving or were they moving 621 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: or were they both moving at the same time, Because 622 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: you've got multiple possibilities here, and so these trajectories are 623 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: going to be wild. Most of the time. When you 624 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: walk into a scene and you've got a single person 625 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: that's dead and it's as a result of gunfire. You've 626 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: got one central person that is shooting at the other person, 627 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:33,280 Speaker 1: maybe the other person shooting back. But that's it. Now, Mathematically, 628 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: you've increased the workload here because you've got three individuals. 629 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: You've got three individuals that are all of their own 630 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 1: mind moving about or trying to get distance between themselves, 631 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 1: and the sounds of these weapons going off. 632 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,879 Speaker 2: And it's all inside the house. Yeah, because the fact 633 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 2: that we know there's a shotgun, we know there's a rifle, 634 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 2: and we know there's the small pistol. Yeah, that you revolver, 635 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 2: All right? Did he come in the house with all 636 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 2: three of those or did he like shoot the guy 637 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:06,919 Speaker 2: with a shotgun and then go back to his car 638 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 2: and get another one? Did he did he use these 639 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 2: multiple weapons to make it look like something else had 640 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,959 Speaker 2: transpired besides just one angry man killing three men? Was it? 641 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of in any scenario, one person 642 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,880 Speaker 2: going in mad, I get it, grabbing the shotgun, I 643 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 2: get that, But you know, you go in the house, plam, plam, plam. 644 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:34,280 Speaker 2: We got three dead guys. But he's got three dead 645 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 2: guys and three different types of weapons. 646 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 1: No, isn't that fascinating that he would show up because 647 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,359 Speaker 1: you know, to deal with it. And we've talked about 648 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,560 Speaker 1: this in other cases. I know there was one that 649 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 1: kind of stands out in my mind where you had 650 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 1: an individual that was carrying both a shotgun and then 651 00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,080 Speaker 1: it was actually an AR platform weapon. And in the 652 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,760 Speaker 1: military they talk a lot about transitioning to weapons because 653 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,920 Speaker 1: most of the time in the military and in like 654 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 1: tactical law enforcement as well, you'll have your primary weapon, 655 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: which is an MP five or it's an a AR 656 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,480 Speaker 1: platform type of weapon that you see see individuals carrying 657 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,399 Speaker 1: same thing in the military that carry M fours, which 658 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,800 Speaker 1: is essentially an AR and then they have a sidearm, 659 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,280 Speaker 1: you know, that's in the holster on their hip. Okay, pistol, 660 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: all right, this guy shows it with three How do 661 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,799 Speaker 1: you transition between? Oh, I know what it was what 662 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:41,280 Speaker 1: I was thinking about. I was thinking about Murdoch because 663 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:46,319 Speaker 1: you know, there was alow there was he had a 664 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: platform that was a rifle platform and there was a 665 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,120 Speaker 1: shotgun involved in this. And one of the things that 666 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,319 Speaker 1: people were trying to wrap their mind around, you know, 667 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 1: at the kennels and all this sort of thing was 668 00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,719 Speaker 1: him transitioning from one weapon to the other, from one 669 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,640 Speaker 1: weapon system to the other weapons system, and it's a 670 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,760 Speaker 1: very bulky undertaking. I think this is an interesting point 671 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 1: that you raised, Dave. Does he show up with three 672 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: weapons because he feels like he needs three weapons, or 673 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: did he show up with three weapons because he was 674 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: going to try to make this appear to be something 675 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:22,719 Speaker 1: other than it was. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this 676 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:24,800 Speaker 1: is body packs.