WEBVTT - Richard E. Grant on eating the same seven meals growing up, Henry Higgins and coping with loss 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.680 You were listening to Ruthie's Table four in Partnership with Montclair. 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:07.120 When I think of Richardy Grant, of course I think 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:10.360 of his brilliant films and him as a great actor. 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:14.720 But what I really think of is Richard and his 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:18.680 wife Joan in the early days of the River Cafe. 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:21.720 They were married a year before the restaurant opened and 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:25.480 lived right across the river. Coming in for lunch, are 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:28.920 we sitting at the same table. They were warm and 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:33.160 lovely and absorbed in each other. I remember their daughter, 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:36.599 Olivia being born a few years later, and then bringing 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:39.680 her in as a baby when the restaurant was still 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:44.360 small and starting up. Just like her. We all grew 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:48.800 up and off into our own lives. Now over thirty 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:51.640 years later, Richard and I share something else in common, 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:55.640 the loss of the partner we loved. People once asked me. 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:58.400 Someone asked me about my advice on grief, and I 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.680 have no advice on grief because it's so personal how 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:04.240 you do it. Whether I have a friend whose mother 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:06.200 went to bed for six months and never got out 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:08.839 because her son had died. She just took to her bed, 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.880 and you know, I never stopped. So we all have 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:15.080 different ways, And I was thinking, if we start with 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:19.480 the food part of that, do you eat for comfort 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:21.280 or did you stop eating when. 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:25.920 I add for comfort? And the last once Journal was diagnosed, 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:31.000 and the subsequent eight months that she had left, which 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:34.200 we didn't know we're going to be so short, I 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:37.520 cooked three times a day, did you? But you know, 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:42.839 I'm so struck when everybody, anybody subsequent to her death 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:45.360 says to me, what would your final meal be? And 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.560 I said, well, the experience is of somebody who is 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.800 dying is that food is the last thing that they want. 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:55.800 That Because of the drugs that she was on for 0:01:56.000 --> 0:02:01.600 lung cancer, everything started tasting like sam so it didn't matter. 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:03.560 It got to the point where it didn't matter what 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:07.400 I cooked. She would say, well, this doesn't really taste 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:10.080 of anything, or the texture of it is awful. So 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:14.400 she lost interest completely in food. But it didn't stop 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.720 having to make meals all the time. So I got 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:24.320 very inventive, more inventive in going through cookbooks, obviously yours, 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:29.360 trying to find things that would that she would like. 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:33.440 So you were thinking of her when you were cooking. 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:36.200 It was not just a distraction for you to kind 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:39.000 of do something, because cooking can be that way. You 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.120 have to follow the recipe, you have to put the matter, 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:43.160 how sad you feel, you do have to put the 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:45.440 olive oil in the pan at a certain time. And 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:47.640 it does create a rhythm. It came as a method, 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:49.720 It came to order, almost, doesn't it. It does. 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:54.560 And it's also because she said to me when she 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:58.200 was diagnosed, please make a promise to me, if you 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:02.640 can possibly keep it, that we are together all the 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:07.960 time and that I die with you in our house. 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:10.160 And I said, well, you know, I can try and 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:14.000 make that promise, but we just don't know what's down 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:15.960 the line. And apart from four days when she had 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:19.639 to go into the Royal Marsden because she got an infection, 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:24.040 we managed to honor that. So to go back to 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:28.920 your thing about cooking, it meant that, however short the 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.280 time was that I was in the kitchen, it meant 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:36.600 that it gave me some respite from dealing with her 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:39.680 pending imminent loss. And I suppose gave her time away 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:41.440 from me as well. And sometimes, you know, she would 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:43.520 fall asleep and then that gave me time to go 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:47.360 and cook. But having that routine and something to do 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:50.320 was incredibly important. And in terms of what you said 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:53.400 earlier that you can't give advice about how to deal 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:57.160 with loss or death. What I've found is when people 0:03:57.200 --> 0:03:59.680 have said to me, oh, you get over it in time, 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:03.920 I really object to that because I think that I've 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.240 never wanted to get over it. It's a navigation around 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:11.360 it on a daily basis, and that's that really is 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.320 the way that I find that is the way that 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:17.800 I've I've coped with it that I don't have an 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:19.600 anticipation that is sort of a hump in the road 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:20.960 that I'm going to get over and the other side 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:22.240 it is going to be. You know, I'm now free 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:23.280 because I don't feel like that. 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:25.560 I always thought the worst two words in the English 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:27.080 language was move on. 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:29.760 So somebody said to me the other day, said, it's 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:31.680 been five years, Richard, you know you've got to move 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:34.520 on and you've got a man up and you've got 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:36.039 to start dating other people. 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.840 Yeah, that tells you more about the other person than 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:43.360 I think. If you can, I would say that because 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:47.080 I kind of went through a death experience of my 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:51.679 son six maybe ten years before, Richard, so I kind. 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.320 Of knew and you had no preparation for that. 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:56.159 That one was that I always say there too, because 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.640 he had a seizure and yeah, it was like a 0:04:58.640 --> 0:04:59.159 car crash. 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:00.200 He was here one day. 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:04.200 Yeah, So the ones like you know, Richard, my Richard 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:08.800 and your jone is kind of being eased into that 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.440 world and the knowledge and everything. And then there's the 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:13.720 ones that you get a call and it's a car crash. 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:16.800 But I think that and so each one, you know, 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.680 for me, I couldn't cook after bo died, after the 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.159 car you know, I got the phone, I'd go in 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:25.839 the kitchen, I'd start cooking and start to cry or whatever, 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:28.120 you know. And actually coming in here was for me, 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:32.760 it was like coming home. But with Richard, we you know, 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.279 we ate all the time. We had meals around you know, 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.800 in the bed, we had meals upstairs, we had you know, 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:42.359 and he really loved to eat, not at all, No, 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:48.120 he loved yeah, you know, But but what about it? 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.480 What about cooking for your daughter? Where was Olivia at 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:50.960 this time? 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:54.320 She was she came to stay with us for that 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:59.400 entire time. Did she eat? She yeah, and she yes, 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:03.239 she did, she cooked sometimes, but I think she found 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:06.640 it so overwhelming. Yeah, you know, dealing with what was 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:09.039 what was coming. And I don't know whether you found this, 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.920 but did you did you have a sense or get 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.719 told when Richard's life was nearing it its. 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.600 End, not really, not until because he had brained down. 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:21.760 He had Richard had a fall, yeah, and he fell 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:23.640 on his head and he had a bleed, and then 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.400 it was a slow We were in Mexico, and that 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:30.160 was also interesting because Mexico to be away from my country, 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:34.040 away from my friends, away from well, although I was surrounded, 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:35.839 I never I took two rooms in a hotel and 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.560 I was never alone for four months, but I was 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:41.520 suddenly in the Mexican world of eating at a different time, 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:46.480 eating different foods, having no wine, but eating drinking tequila. 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:49.080 And there was a whole thing. And the hospital that 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:52.200 he was in was a beautiful place, and the food 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:54.000 was part of the whole. It was really important that 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.000 people would bring food and he always ate and you know, 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:59.600 he was a great eating Richard. So it was something 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:02.320 we share to the very end. I knew he was 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:05.480 going to die. Probably we knew we were coming towards 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:07.880 the end, probably about a month before, because he had 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.920 as true, this is after two years, but I think 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:15.200 it might have been a different kind of experience in 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:16.640 terms of JOm did she eat? 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:19.840 She didn't eat. In the last week of her life, 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:23.720 she at almost nothing. And we had a palliative care 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.200 who would come in twice a day for ten to 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:30.559 fifteen minutes. And she said to me ten days before, 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:35.480 she said, when in her experience, when the person who 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:40.000 is terminally ill stops really not wanting to eat, that 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:44.960 is usually three four days. And Joan had said to 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:47.960 Olivia and I two weeks before she died, she said, 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:51.160 I know that it's the end is very near. And 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:54.160 she said, please let me go. And I think that 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:58.120 this is I've now my reading and other people who 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.880 share their experience said that that it is a very 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:03.960 common thing for people to say, let me go. They 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:08.200 want they want you to give them permission to not 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.800 hold on anymore. And said, you know, I'm so exhausted. 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:16.320 I've had a good life. I want you to, you know, 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:19.480 to find a pocket full of happiness in each day 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:23.120 and not be sad when I'm gone, she said, because 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:27.520 all of us are going to die. She said, you too, included, Yeah, 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:29.520 I have it. It's been a great mantra by which 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:38.720 to navigate grief. Ever since then, I found consciously finding 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.800 joy in things that you may have just taken for 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:45.360 granted beforehand. And that's been a great gift that she's 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:47.520 given me and our daughter. 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:49.400 And what about work. 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:53.800 I have had a huge amount of work since Joan died, 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:58.240 and rather than retreat, I have grabbed all of it 0:08:58.320 --> 0:08:59.920 with great gusts. 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:05.440 Me too, I have I have moments where I think, 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:08.040 you know, how are we going to get through this? 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:11.559 But never that idea that I might stop or give up. 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:14.720 You know, I love doing this, We love writing our books. 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.719 As I said, love the podcast. Sit down and have 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:22.040 excuse me go on? Did you get that on camera? 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:29.160 You just lifted the plate, clicked every bit of the plate. 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:30.679 Why not? Why not? 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:34.200 You can't really do it in a restaurant without offending people. 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:37.199 Do you think maybe you know, have you done it 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:39.960 and offended? A woman actually said I'm offended by this? 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:40.959 Or you could just see the. 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:47.120 Look accommodation and JOm used to say, for God's sake, please, 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:51.600 so all I would do is do this and then 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:54.439 do it behind or lean down pretending that I'm doing 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:55.200 something on the floor. 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:57.640 Do you think it tastes different when you look what 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:00.240 you're tasting looking off the plate. Is that different what 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:01.120 you've put in your mouth? 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:03.760 I think that. I think that what it is is 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:08.119 like the encore at the end of a performance. 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.040 What is an encore like at the end of a performance. 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:16.840 I've only done one musical, My Fair Lady, And because 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:24.240 a musical there's music for people to reperform, you can 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:26.880 do a sort of final verse of something, but in 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.040 the theater you can't. All you can do is about it. 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.839 You can't say, oh well I'll do I'll do to 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.079 be or not to be again, you know what I mean? 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:35.880 That's amazing. 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.719 That's what I really love is sometimes when the end 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:42.360 of a musical then it's all over, and then they 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:44.800 come like guys and dolls will come out and do 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:47.640 you know lucky a lady or when you see a 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.880 guy or My fair Lady, you could come out. You 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:52.199 obviously played Henry Higgins. 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.520 Higgins, what a great part, absolutely amazing role. 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:58.840 What's your favorite song from My Fair Lady? I think 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:01.360 whenever the same as mine go on? 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:02.120 What is yours? 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:04.480 I've grown accustomed to her face? 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:04.920 Yeah? 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.560 Is there a better song? No, I've grown a custom 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:15.680 begin I've gone accustomed. 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:19.680 To the to you, she whistles nice and new smiles 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:27.079 her friends, her das secondment to me, now just to you. 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:30.400 That should be the ending of this from the beginning. 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:34.079 Oh, I we should sang it for my seventeenth birthday 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:35.680 to be, I said, that's all I want you to 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:38.439 do is to sing me. I've gon accustomed to it. 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.599 I do think it's a beautiful BEAUTI is amazing. Was 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:43.840 that the last theater that you did. 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:47.400 Yeah, that's the last time I did theater and I 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:49.920 did it in Chicago ten years ago, and then I 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.480 did it at the Sydney Opera fifteen years ago. 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:54.280 I should bring it to London. I would love to 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.800 see it again. You can't do it now because of misogyny, 0:11:58.000 --> 0:11:59.760 because yeah, tell me about that. 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:04.520 McCarthy's daughters came to see it in Chicago and they 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:10.080 were ten and thirteen, and they were appalled by the 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:12.439 misogyny of it. They said, how can any woman put 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:12.880 up with that? 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.280 When you were performing it, did you feel a sense. 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:18.760 Well, my steer on it was that Higgins is on 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:24.800 the spectrum, and that he is. He doesn't mean to 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:29.240 be as cruel as he is. He just he you know, 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.560 he says that there's no filter whatsoever, so it just 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:34.880 comes out, you know, you should be thrown out like 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:39.959 a cabbage le for whatever. And he is so joy 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:45.720 filled when Eliza gets all the words phonetically correct yees, 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.960 he embraces her. Yeah. And you know, it's no accident 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.439 to me that straight after that she sings, I could 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.480 have danced all night. And it is the way that 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.679 I interpreted it was that that was as close as 0:12:57.679 --> 0:12:59.640 he could ever get to saying he's in love with 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:04.000 somebody interesting. So it was very physical and we grabbed 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:04.360 each other. 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:06.959 And I think it's the first musical I ever saw. 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.160 I think I went to see it. I was saying 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:11.800 the other day that my dad used to take me 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.079 because we lived in upstate New York, and every sort 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:16.320 of big treat, maybe once every couple of months, you 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.600 would take me down to New York in the car 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:20.400 and we'd have lunch, and then you'd take me to 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.920 a musical, and then we would buy the record, and 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:25.680 then we would take it home to the country, and 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.360 there was nothing else to do except just listen to 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:29.120 it all the time. 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.960 So I yeah, really, this is really generational that we 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:36.840 share on this because in the sixties, every musical that 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.960 came out, my parents had the lp of it and 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:44.080 played it incessantly, so our whole family knew the lyrics 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:46.600 of every single musical that came out. You say it 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.840 to people now, I think you're yeah, it's insane. 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.880 But the other thing about the musicals, without being naming 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.200 any is that they don't have those two and so 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:58.520 much anymore. They're not as kind of hummable, are they 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.120 that you come out you can remember on the street 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:01.720 where you live. 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:05.520 People who would argue with probably yeah. 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:08.160 But I find it, yeah, I find it slightly challenging. 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.800 But but it isn't. I haven't seen My Fair Lady ever, 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.280 probably even since I was a kid a long time ago. 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:16.440 Broadway. 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:20.680 Yeah, I remember. I think it was Julie Andrews and 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:23.840 Rex Harrison. I think it was, but I was really young, 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:25.800 I have to say so, I think. But it was 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:29.800 my very first musical. And then I saw I saw 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:33.280 West Side Story, I saw My Fair Lady. I saw 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.120 I really one that and he used to come in here, 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:41.920 stop the world, I want to get off. Yeah, yeah, 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.160 and Leslie and Evie came here all the time. But 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:46.720 I used to come up to it. I remember the 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:48.520 first time I met him, he was with Michael Gate 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.320 and I said, I bet, I'm the only person in 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:55.640 this room that knows, you know, say my Miski mischial 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.960 for whatever those songs are or what kind of full 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:00.840 of And he loved and he would sing it with 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:02.960 me because you could see I have any chance to see. 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.480 But those, yeah, they kind of grow up with those, 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:07.800 you know, do you know what your first one are? 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:12.720 The first one was the Sound of Music, and then 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:16.000 Mary Poppins. But I'd heard My Fair Lady before I 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.480 saw those, before I saw the movie, and my parents 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:23.160 had all the Rogers and Hammerstein, Carousel King, and I 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:25.920 had all of those record collection, so I knew all 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:28.200 of those before I ever saw the movies. 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.080 An open kitchen in the River Cafe means we as 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:40.680 chefs are able to talk to our guests dining in 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:43.720 the restaurant, sharing how we cook their food, where the 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:47.440 ingredients come from, as well as hints and advice for 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.760 cooking the recipes in the books. And now we're bringing 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:54.320 that same ethos to our podcast, a question and answer 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.080 episode with me and our two executive chefs, Sean Winnow, 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:01.360 and Joseph Travelli. We need is to hear from you 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.360 about what you would like to know. Send a voice 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:08.200 note with your question to Questions at Rivercafe dot co 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:11.920 dot uk and you might just be our next great 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:14.040 guest on Ruthie's Table four. 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:25.360 You were born in Swaziland, which is now called Eswatini, 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:29.200 which is the tiniest country in the Southern Hemisphere Southeast Africa, 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:33.600 below Zimbabwe besides South Africa and Mozambique. 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:35.040 And why were you there? 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:37.880 My father was the director of education for the British government, 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:39.400 so that's why we were there, and that's why I 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:40.160 went to school there. 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.480 Yeah, and tell you it was az Tell me about 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:45.680 your dad, what did he he was? 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:49.240 He was incredibly charming good man by day and then 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:54.480 a very violent, unrecognizable alcoholic by night, because after my 0:16:54.760 --> 0:17:00.560 mother cuckolded and left him for his best friend. Yeah 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:03.280 that or did you? No? No? 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.000 I stayed with my father as an only child. 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.800 I had a younger brother. But I think my mother 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:14.360 was Her argument was that she didn't want to take 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.440 me away from everything that was familiar to me and 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:21.800 living at home. She was not a very maternal person. 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.960 I think she's one of those people that you might yeah, 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:28.440 if you unkind, would call it narcissism. Shouldn't really have 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:29.040 had children? 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:30.120 Did she marry very young? 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:34.080 I think in that time, that generation, she got married 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:37.680 at twenty four, which was when people got married in 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:40.120 Jane Austin, not that she was in Jane Olson time. 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:41.520 But by the time you were twenty six, you were 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:42.000 an old maid. 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:44.879 You're exactly exactly what are we going to do? 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:47.639 Yeah, so twenty four was not when when was your 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:48.680 mother married to your father? 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:51.119 Yeah? Probably the same, maybe even younger. 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:51.760 And I was young. 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:53.440 I was married when I was twenty. Well, I met 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:56.480 Richard when I was nineteen and then was married, had 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:58.760 my first kid at twenty four, so I started very 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:04.080 very y. That was a baby. But so did your 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:06.240 mother move down the street or did she know? 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.879 She moved to another country, another country, another country, and 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.800 then that man got transferred to Peru, and then she 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:16.000 came back to Swaziland and was treated like she may 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:22.440 as well have adulters. Yeah, and so people it was 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.879 that awful situation where I would meet, you know, in 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:29.400 the Saturday market where people were buying fruit and vegetables. 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:32.000 I would be with my mother on her weekend visit 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:36.240 twice a month, and people would speak to me who 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.600 were her former friends and would literally blank her. It 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:41.600 was it felt very cruel. 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:43.720 So what was food like my mother? 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:47.440 My mother had no interest in cooking, so she we 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:51.679 had a cook who she taught to cook seven meals, 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:54.000 so I know every day of the week. 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.440 You say seven meals, seven as in seven days. 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:00.359 And they did not rotate and they did not altar. 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:04.120 So every Monday tin fish was on a Friday. Okay, 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.800 so fishy fish on Fridays. No fresh fresh fish. There, 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:12.359 beef on a Monday, pork on a Tuesday, chicken on 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:17.440 a Wednesday, lamb on a Thursday, fish on a Friday, 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:22.720 and then we'd have roast beef again on the Saturday, 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:25.920 and then a barbecue on Sunday unless we went to Mozambique, 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:31.200 which we would then have Peri Pery prawns, prawns with 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:32.479 Perry Perry sauce on them. 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:33.720 That's Perry Pery sauce. 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:38.280 Oh, it's the stuff that the Nando's chain have based 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.399 all their fortune on. It's a very very hot sauce. 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.960 Rectal fire basically for your head. What did you say, 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.159 rectal fire? Yeah, Yeah, you have to sit on an 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:50.879 inner tube. If you have no sensitivity, if you have 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:54.480 no tolerance for spice like I don't, you have to 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:57.000 sit on an inner tube for about three days. It 0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:57.720 is brutal. 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:03.040 Yeah, before we leave the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday was the 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:05.480 Tinfish cook exactly the same way there. 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:09.840 Exactly the same as tin tuna cooked with a fresh today. 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:12.200 You looked forward to more in when you dreaded. 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.440 No, because if you don't know anything else, then you're 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:18.879 used to that. And then my father remarried when I 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:24.360 was twelve and my stepmother cooked spaghetti for the first time. 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.480 I'd never seen spaghetti, had a spaghetti. So in nineteen 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:30.560 sixty nine I had spaghetti and I was absolutely appalled. 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.280 I thought that it looked like white worms in a bowl, 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:36.440 and how could you possibly eat that? I mean, that's 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:40.200 how provincial and isolated we were. 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:42.480 So you grew up there when you came to London. 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:43.280 Back to London. 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:45.920 I came to London in nineteen eighty two when I 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:47.480 was twenty five years old. 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:50.679 To see he grew up in Africa college there. 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:54.400 I went to college in University in Cape Town, which 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:57.040 is the nearest by twelve hundred miles that you could 0:20:57.080 --> 0:21:01.520 do a combined English degree as well as a theaterre diploma, 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:03.359 because my father said he wouldn't pay for me to 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:04.960 just go to a drama school in England. 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:06.760 At what age that you wanted to be an actor? 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:13.840 Well, I made shoe box theaters with cutouts and when 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:16.040 I was seven, and then when I was nine I 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:18.680 made clove puppets and then when I was twelve I 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:22.439 got some marionettes. So and then I had full scale 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:26.720