1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: You were listening to Ruthie's Table four in Partnership with Montclair. 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 2: When I think of Richardy Grant, of course I think 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 2: of his brilliant films and him as a great actor. 4 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 2: But what I really think of is Richard and his 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 2: wife Joan in the early days of the River Cafe. 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 2: They were married a year before the restaurant opened and 7 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 2: lived right across the river. Coming in for lunch, are 8 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 2: we sitting at the same table. They were warm and 9 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 2: lovely and absorbed in each other. I remember their daughter, 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 2: Olivia being born a few years later, and then bringing 11 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 2: her in as a baby when the restaurant was still 12 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 2: small and starting up. Just like her. We all grew 13 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: up and off into our own lives. Now over thirty 14 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 2: years later, Richard and I share something else in common, 15 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 2: the loss of the partner we loved. People once asked me. 16 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 2: Someone asked me about my advice on grief, and I 17 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 2: have no advice on grief because it's so personal how 18 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 2: you do it. Whether I have a friend whose mother 19 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 2: went to bed for six months and never got out 20 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,839 Speaker 2: because her son had died. She just took to her bed, 21 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 2: and you know, I never stopped. So we all have 22 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 2: different ways, And I was thinking, if we start with 23 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 2: the food part of that, do you eat for comfort 24 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 2: or did you stop eating when. 25 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: I add for comfort? And the last once Journal was diagnosed, 26 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: and the subsequent eight months that she had left, which 27 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: we didn't know we're going to be so short, I 28 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: cooked three times a day, did you? But you know, 29 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,839 Speaker 1: I'm so struck when everybody, anybody subsequent to her death 30 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: says to me, what would your final meal be? And 31 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: I said, well, the experience is of somebody who is 32 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: dying is that food is the last thing that they want. 33 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: That Because of the drugs that she was on for 34 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: lung cancer, everything started tasting like sam so it didn't matter. 35 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: It got to the point where it didn't matter what 36 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: I cooked. She would say, well, this doesn't really taste 37 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: of anything, or the texture of it is awful. So 38 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: she lost interest completely in food. But it didn't stop 39 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: having to make meals all the time. So I got 40 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: very inventive, more inventive in going through cookbooks, obviously yours, 41 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: trying to find things that would that she would like. 42 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 2: So you were thinking of her when you were cooking. 43 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: It was not just a distraction for you to kind 44 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 2: of do something, because cooking can be that way. You 45 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 2: have to follow the recipe, you have to put the matter, 46 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 2: how sad you feel, you do have to put the 47 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: olive oil in the pan at a certain time. And 48 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 2: it does create a rhythm. It came as a method, 49 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 2: It came to order, almost, doesn't it. It does. 50 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: And it's also because she said to me when she 51 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: was diagnosed, please make a promise to me, if you 52 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: can possibly keep it, that we are together all the 53 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: time and that I die with you in our house. 54 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: And I said, well, you know, I can try and 55 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: make that promise, but we just don't know what's down 56 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: the line. And apart from four days when she had 57 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 1: to go into the Royal Marsden because she got an infection, 58 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: we managed to honor that. So to go back to 59 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 1: your thing about cooking, it meant that, however short the 60 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: time was that I was in the kitchen, it meant 61 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: that it gave me some respite from dealing with her 62 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: pending imminent loss. And I suppose gave her time away 63 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: from me as well. And sometimes, you know, she would 64 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: fall asleep and then that gave me time to go 65 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: and cook. But having that routine and something to do 66 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: was incredibly important. And in terms of what you said 67 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: earlier that you can't give advice about how to deal 68 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: with loss or death. What I've found is when people 69 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: have said to me, oh, you get over it in time, 70 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: I really object to that because I think that I've 71 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: never wanted to get over it. It's a navigation around 72 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: it on a daily basis, and that's that really is 73 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: the way that I find that is the way that 74 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: I've I've coped with it that I don't have an 75 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: anticipation that is sort of a hump in the road 76 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: that I'm going to get over and the other side 77 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: it is going to be. You know, I'm now free 78 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: because I don't feel like that. 79 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 2: I always thought the worst two words in the English 80 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: language was move on. 81 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: So somebody said to me the other day, said, it's 82 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: been five years, Richard, you know you've got to move 83 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: on and you've got a man up and you've got 84 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: to start dating other people. 85 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, that tells you more about the other person than 86 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 2: I think. If you can, I would say that because 87 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 2: I kind of went through a death experience of my 88 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:51,679 Speaker 2: son six maybe ten years before, Richard, so I kind. 89 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: Of knew and you had no preparation for that. 90 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 2: That one was that I always say there too, because 91 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 2: he had a seizure and yeah, it was like a 92 00:04:58,640 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 2: car crash. 93 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: He was here one day. 94 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, So the ones like you know, Richard, my Richard 95 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 2: and your jone is kind of being eased into that 96 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: world and the knowledge and everything. And then there's the 97 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 2: ones that you get a call and it's a car crash. 98 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 2: But I think that and so each one, you know, 99 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 2: for me, I couldn't cook after bo died, after the 100 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 2: car you know, I got the phone, I'd go in 101 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 2: the kitchen, I'd start cooking and start to cry or whatever, 102 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: you know. And actually coming in here was for me, 103 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 2: it was like coming home. But with Richard, we you know, 104 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 2: we ate all the time. We had meals around you know, 105 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: in the bed, we had meals upstairs, we had you know, 106 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 2: and he really loved to eat, not at all, No, 107 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 2: he loved yeah, you know, But but what about it? 108 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 2: What about cooking for your daughter? Where was Olivia at 109 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: this time? 110 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: She was she came to stay with us for that 111 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: entire time. Did she eat? She yeah, and she yes, 112 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:03,239 Speaker 1: she did, she cooked sometimes, but I think she found 113 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: it so overwhelming. Yeah, you know, dealing with what was 114 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 1: what was coming. And I don't know whether you found this, 115 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: but did you did you have a sense or get 116 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: told when Richard's life was nearing it its. 117 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 2: End, not really, not until because he had brained down. 118 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 2: He had Richard had a fall, yeah, and he fell 119 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 2: on his head and he had a bleed, and then 120 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 2: it was a slow We were in Mexico, and that 121 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 2: was also interesting because Mexico to be away from my country, 122 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 2: away from my friends, away from well, although I was surrounded, 123 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 2: I never I took two rooms in a hotel and 124 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 2: I was never alone for four months, but I was 125 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 2: suddenly in the Mexican world of eating at a different time, 126 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 2: eating different foods, having no wine, but eating drinking tequila. 127 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 2: And there was a whole thing. And the hospital that 128 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: he was in was a beautiful place, and the food 129 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: was part of the whole. It was really important that 130 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 2: people would bring food and he always ate and you know, 131 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 2: he was a great eating Richard. So it was something 132 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: we share to the very end. I knew he was 133 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 2: going to die. Probably we knew we were coming towards 134 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: the end, probably about a month before, because he had 135 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 2: as true, this is after two years, but I think 136 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 2: it might have been a different kind of experience in 137 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 2: terms of JOm did she eat? 138 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: She didn't eat. In the last week of her life, 139 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: she at almost nothing. And we had a palliative care 140 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: who would come in twice a day for ten to 141 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:30,559 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes. And she said to me ten days before, 142 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: she said, when in her experience, when the person who 143 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: is terminally ill stops really not wanting to eat, that 144 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: is usually three four days. And Joan had said to 145 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: Olivia and I two weeks before she died, she said, 146 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: I know that it's the end is very near. And 147 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: she said, please let me go. And I think that 148 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: this is I've now my reading and other people who 149 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: share their experience said that that it is a very 150 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: common thing for people to say, let me go. They 151 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: want they want you to give them permission to not 152 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: hold on anymore. And said, you know, I'm so exhausted. 153 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: I've had a good life. I want you to, you know, 154 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: to find a pocket full of happiness in each day 155 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: and not be sad when I'm gone, she said, because 156 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: all of us are going to die. She said, you too, included, Yeah, 157 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: I have it. It's been a great mantra by which 158 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: to navigate grief. Ever since then, I found consciously finding 159 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: joy in things that you may have just taken for 160 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: granted beforehand. And that's been a great gift that she's 161 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: given me and our daughter. 162 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: And what about work. 163 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: I have had a huge amount of work since Joan died, 164 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: and rather than retreat, I have grabbed all of it 165 00:08:58,320 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: with great gusts. 166 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 2: Me too, I have I have moments where I think, 167 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 2: you know, how are we going to get through this? 168 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 2: But never that idea that I might stop or give up. 169 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 2: You know, I love doing this, We love writing our books. 170 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,719 Speaker 2: As I said, love the podcast. Sit down and have 171 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 2: excuse me go on? Did you get that on camera? 172 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 2: You just lifted the plate, clicked every bit of the plate. 173 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 2: Why not? Why not? 174 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: You can't really do it in a restaurant without offending people. 175 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 2: Do you think maybe you know, have you done it 176 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 2: and offended? A woman actually said I'm offended by this? 177 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 2: Or you could just see the. 178 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: Look accommodation and JOm used to say, for God's sake, please, 179 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: so all I would do is do this and then 180 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 1: do it behind or lean down pretending that I'm doing 181 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: something on the floor. 182 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 2: Do you think it tastes different when you look what 183 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 2: you're tasting looking off the plate. Is that different what 184 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 2: you've put in your mouth? 185 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: I think that. I think that what it is is 186 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:08,119 Speaker 1: like the encore at the end of a performance. 187 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 2: What is an encore like at the end of a performance. 188 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: I've only done one musical, My Fair Lady, And because 189 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: a musical there's music for people to reperform, you can 190 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: do a sort of final verse of something, but in 191 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: the theater you can't. All you can do is about it. 192 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,839 Speaker 1: You can't say, oh well I'll do I'll do to 193 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 1: be or not to be again, you know what I mean? 194 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: That's amazing. 195 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,719 Speaker 2: That's what I really love is sometimes when the end 196 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 2: of a musical then it's all over, and then they 197 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 2: come like guys and dolls will come out and do 198 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 2: you know lucky a lady or when you see a 199 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 2: guy or My fair Lady, you could come out. You 200 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 2: obviously played Henry Higgins. 201 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: Higgins, what a great part, absolutely amazing role. 202 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 2: What's your favorite song from My Fair Lady? I think 203 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 2: whenever the same as mine go on? 204 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: What is yours? 205 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 2: I've grown accustomed to her face? 206 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: Yeah? 207 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 2: Is there a better song? No, I've grown a custom 208 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 2: begin I've gone accustomed. 209 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: To the to you, she whistles nice and new smiles 210 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 1: her friends, her das secondment to me, now just to you. 211 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: That should be the ending of this from the beginning. 212 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 2: Oh, I we should sang it for my seventeenth birthday 213 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 2: to be, I said, that's all I want you to 214 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 2: do is to sing me. I've gon accustomed to it. 215 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,599 Speaker 2: I do think it's a beautiful BEAUTI is amazing. Was 216 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 2: that the last theater that you did. 217 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the last time I did theater and I 218 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: did it in Chicago ten years ago, and then I 219 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: did it at the Sydney Opera fifteen years ago. 220 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 2: I should bring it to London. I would love to 221 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 2: see it again. You can't do it now because of misogyny, 222 00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 2: because yeah, tell me about that. 223 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: McCarthy's daughters came to see it in Chicago and they 224 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: were ten and thirteen, and they were appalled by the 225 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 1: misogyny of it. They said, how can any woman put 226 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: up with that? 227 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 2: When you were performing it, did you feel a sense. 228 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: Well, my steer on it was that Higgins is on 229 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: the spectrum, and that he is. He doesn't mean to 230 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: be as cruel as he is. He just he you know, 231 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: he says that there's no filter whatsoever, so it just 232 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: comes out, you know, you should be thrown out like 233 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:39,959 Speaker 1: a cabbage le for whatever. And he is so joy 234 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: filled when Eliza gets all the words phonetically correct yees, 235 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: he embraces her. Yeah. And you know, it's no accident 236 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 1: to me that straight after that she sings, I could 237 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: have danced all night. And it is the way that 238 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: I interpreted it was that that was as close as 239 00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: he could ever get to saying he's in love with 240 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: somebody interesting. So it was very physical and we grabbed 241 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: each other. 242 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,959 Speaker 2: And I think it's the first musical I ever saw. 243 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 2: I think I went to see it. I was saying 244 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 2: the other day that my dad used to take me 245 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 2: because we lived in upstate New York, and every sort 246 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 2: of big treat, maybe once every couple of months, you 247 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 2: would take me down to New York in the car 248 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 2: and we'd have lunch, and then you'd take me to 249 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 2: a musical, and then we would buy the record, and 250 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 2: then we would take it home to the country, and 251 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 2: there was nothing else to do except just listen to 252 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 2: it all the time. 253 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: So I yeah, really, this is really generational that we 254 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: share on this because in the sixties, every musical that 255 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: came out, my parents had the lp of it and 256 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: played it incessantly, so our whole family knew the lyrics 257 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: of every single musical that came out. You say it 258 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: to people now, I think you're yeah, it's insane. 259 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 2: But the other thing about the musicals, without being naming 260 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 2: any is that they don't have those two and so 261 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 2: much anymore. They're not as kind of hummable, are they 262 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 2: that you come out you can remember on the street 263 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 2: where you live. 264 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: People who would argue with probably yeah. 265 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 2: But I find it, yeah, I find it slightly challenging. 266 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 2: But but it isn't. I haven't seen My Fair Lady ever, 267 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 2: probably even since I was a kid a long time ago. 268 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: Broadway. 269 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember. I think it was Julie Andrews and 270 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 2: Rex Harrison. I think it was, but I was really young, 271 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 2: I have to say so, I think. But it was 272 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: my very first musical. And then I saw I saw 273 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 2: West Side Story, I saw My Fair Lady. I saw 274 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 2: I really one that and he used to come in here, 275 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 2: stop the world, I want to get off. Yeah, yeah, 276 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 2: and Leslie and Evie came here all the time. But 277 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: I used to come up to it. I remember the 278 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 2: first time I met him, he was with Michael Gate 279 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 2: and I said, I bet, I'm the only person in 280 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 2: this room that knows, you know, say my Miski mischial 281 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 2: for whatever those songs are or what kind of full 282 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 2: of And he loved and he would sing it with 283 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 2: me because you could see I have any chance to see. 284 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 2: But those, yeah, they kind of grow up with those, 285 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 2: you know, do you know what your first one are? 286 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: The first one was the Sound of Music, and then 287 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: Mary Poppins. But I'd heard My Fair Lady before I 288 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: saw those, before I saw the movie, and my parents 289 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: had all the Rogers and Hammerstein, Carousel King, and I 290 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: had all of those record collection, so I knew all 291 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: of those before I ever saw the movies. 292 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 2: An open kitchen in the River Cafe means we as 293 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 2: chefs are able to talk to our guests dining in 294 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 2: the restaurant, sharing how we cook their food, where the 295 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 2: ingredients come from, as well as hints and advice for 296 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 2: cooking the recipes in the books. And now we're bringing 297 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 2: that same ethos to our podcast, a question and answer 298 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 2: episode with me and our two executive chefs, Sean Winnow, 299 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 2: and Joseph Travelli. We need is to hear from you 300 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 2: about what you would like to know. Send a voice 301 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 2: note with your question to Questions at Rivercafe dot co 302 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 2: dot uk and you might just be our next great 303 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 2: guest on Ruthie's Table four. 304 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: You were born in Swaziland, which is now called Eswatini, 305 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: which is the tiniest country in the Southern Hemisphere Southeast Africa, 306 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: below Zimbabwe besides South Africa and Mozambique. 307 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 2: And why were you there? 308 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: My father was the director of education for the British government, 309 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: so that's why we were there, and that's why I 310 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: went to school there. 311 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and tell you it was az Tell me about 312 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 2: your dad, what did he he was? 313 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: He was incredibly charming good man by day and then 314 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: a very violent, unrecognizable alcoholic by night, because after my 315 00:16:54,760 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: mother cuckolded and left him for his best friend. Yeah 316 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: that or did you? No? No? 317 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: I stayed with my father as an only child. 318 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: I had a younger brother. But I think my mother 319 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,360 Speaker 1: was Her argument was that she didn't want to take 320 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: me away from everything that was familiar to me and 321 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: living at home. She was not a very maternal person. 322 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: I think she's one of those people that you might yeah, 323 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: if you unkind, would call it narcissism. Shouldn't really have 324 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: had children? 325 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 2: Did she marry very young? 326 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: I think in that time, that generation, she got married 327 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: at twenty four, which was when people got married in 328 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 1: Jane Austin, not that she was in Jane Olson time. 329 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: But by the time you were twenty six, you were 330 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: an old maid. 331 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 2: You're exactly exactly what are we going to do? 332 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, so twenty four was not when when was your 333 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 1: mother married to your father? 334 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 2: Yeah? Probably the same, maybe even younger. 335 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: And I was young. 336 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 2: I was married when I was twenty. Well, I met 337 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 2: Richard when I was nineteen and then was married, had 338 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 2: my first kid at twenty four, so I started very 339 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 2: very y. That was a baby. But so did your 340 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 2: mother move down the street or did she know? 341 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: She moved to another country, another country, another country, and 342 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: then that man got transferred to Peru, and then she 343 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: came back to Swaziland and was treated like she may 344 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 1: as well have adulters. Yeah, and so people it was 345 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: that awful situation where I would meet, you know, in 346 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 1: the Saturday market where people were buying fruit and vegetables. 347 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: I would be with my mother on her weekend visit 348 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: twice a month, and people would speak to me who 349 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: were her former friends and would literally blank her. It 350 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: was it felt very cruel. 351 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 2: So what was food like my mother? 352 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: My mother had no interest in cooking, so she we 353 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 1: had a cook who she taught to cook seven meals, 354 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: so I know every day of the week. 355 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 2: You say seven meals, seven as in seven days. 356 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: And they did not rotate and they did not altar. 357 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: So every Monday tin fish was on a Friday. Okay, 358 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: so fishy fish on Fridays. No fresh fresh fish. There, 359 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: beef on a Monday, pork on a Tuesday, chicken on 360 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 1: a Wednesday, lamb on a Thursday, fish on a Friday, 361 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: and then we'd have roast beef again on the Saturday, 362 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: and then a barbecue on Sunday unless we went to Mozambique, 363 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: which we would then have Peri Pery prawns, prawns with 364 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:32,479 Speaker 1: Perry Perry sauce on them. 365 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 2: That's Perry Pery sauce. 366 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: Oh, it's the stuff that the Nando's chain have based 367 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: all their fortune on. It's a very very hot sauce. 368 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: Rectal fire basically for your head. What did you say, 369 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: rectal fire? Yeah, Yeah, you have to sit on an 370 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 1: inner tube. If you have no sensitivity, if you have 371 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: no tolerance for spice like I don't, you have to 372 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: sit on an inner tube for about three days. It 373 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: is brutal. 374 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, before we leave the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday was the 375 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 2: Tinfish cook exactly the same way there. 376 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: Exactly the same as tin tuna cooked with a fresh today. 377 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 2: You looked forward to more in when you dreaded. 378 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: No, because if you don't know anything else, then you're 379 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: used to that. And then my father remarried when I 380 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 1: was twelve and my stepmother cooked spaghetti for the first time. 381 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: I'd never seen spaghetti, had a spaghetti. So in nineteen 382 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: sixty nine I had spaghetti and I was absolutely appalled. 383 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: I thought that it looked like white worms in a bowl, 384 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 1: and how could you possibly eat that? I mean, that's 385 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: how provincial and isolated we were. 386 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 2: So you grew up there when you came to London. 387 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 2: Back to London. 388 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: I came to London in nineteen eighty two when I 389 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: was twenty five years old. 390 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,679 Speaker 2: To see he grew up in Africa college there. 391 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: I went to college in University in Cape Town, which 392 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: is the nearest by twelve hundred miles that you could 393 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: do a combined English degree as well as a theaterre diploma, 394 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: because my father said he wouldn't pay for me to 395 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: just go to a drama school in England. 396 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 2: At what age that you wanted to be an actor? 397 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: Well, I made shoe box theaters with cutouts and when 398 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: I was seven, and then when I was nine I 399 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: made clove puppets and then when I was twelve I 400 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 1: got some marionettes. So and then I had full scale 401 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: marionette theater in my parents garage and did school you know, 402 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 1: plays in the school holidays. 403 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 2: For kids who well encourage you to do actor to have. 404 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 1: To some extent. And there was an amateur theater club 405 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: in swarzil Ad, so I was a member of that. 406 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: So it was you know, the line of when I 407 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: look back on it is very very clear that I 408 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: think it chooses you. But the notion of saying that 409 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: you were going to be an actor where I grew 410 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: up was you know people's. 411 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 2: You know, father was head of education. You would have 412 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 2: thought it was an educationalist that he would have encouraged 413 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 2: the edu know the education that you would. 414 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: Think, but he said, you know, you were a good 415 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: brain and you have good school results, why waste it 416 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: on becoming an active because ninety nine percent of their 417 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: unemployed from what I've statistically read. And he said, you know, 418 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: I dread that you're going to spend your life destitute, 419 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 1: wearing tights, makeup and avoiding a buggery. 420 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 2: Did he enjoy the theater that? 421 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: Yeah? He loved it. Yeah. Whenever we came back to 422 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: England every three years, he would take me to every 423 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: single show that was on. So I remember when I 424 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: came when I was seven, and then especially when I 425 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 1: was twelve years old, I saw just a huge variety 426 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: of things. I saw Oliver the Musical in the in 427 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: the theater, I saw Ginger Rogers do Auntie Mame and 428 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:44,640 Speaker 1: Jory Lane. 429 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, so what year is that? 430 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: Nineteen sixty nine? 431 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 2: Did she dance? 432 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: Yeah? She did dance outside wow. 433 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 2: Anti Ma, did you feel like, in food terms and 434 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 2: real terms that you were always a foreigner in another 435 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 2: country growing. 436 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: Because all the food that I had was English food, 437 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 1: where I grew up was English, and all the people 438 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: that I grew up with were English. So they were yes, 439 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: so they weren't all the expat community there were essentially 440 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 1: mainly from England. So or people that had been on 441 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: the colonial circuit that if they had lived in India 442 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: had then coming to Kenya. It was as it was 443 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 1: then called then Kenya, then to Rhodesia was then became Zimbabwe. 444 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: It was like this sort of the trail of the 445 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: last country is becoming independent one by one from the 446 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: British Empire. And the people who couldn't face coming back 447 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: to live in England had got so enamored of a 448 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,719 Speaker 1: colonial life ended up in Swaziland. 449 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 2: So do you remember what the food of Swaziland, apart 450 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 2: from the prons which you described, was there a kind 451 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 2: of cultural. 452 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: Maze people maize which is corn and it was made 453 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: into a kind of polanta type mixture with gravy and 454 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: a small amount of meat. Yeah, that was the traditional food. 455 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 2: And that was whether vegetables or fruits or anything exotic that. 456 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: You were There were amazing subtropical fruit there, light cheese 457 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: or we called the lee cheese mangoes. But it was 458 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 1: all seasonal. You couldn't you know. That is what is 459 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: so extraordin about living in London is that you can 460 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: get all of this stuff all year around for the 461 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: most part. 462 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 2: But started going to the market where your mother was snubbed. 463 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 2: Do you remember the market? 464 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, it was big. What was it like? It 465 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: was a big, open air market and all the people 466 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: running the market were Swazi women and they had piled 467 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 1: up stores of fresh fruit and vegetables, and you bartered 468 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: and every every person arrived at the basket and bought 469 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: their stuff. And there was there was one supermarket as well, 470 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: but going to the market on Saturday was an absolute ritual. 471 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: And I think that going to the market, my mother 472 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: would buy these vegetables. She didn't cook them, of course, 473 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: but she would buy all the produce. And it was 474 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: also a very social thing that you got to meet 475 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,199 Speaker 1: everybody else. And then she stopped going when all these 476 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: people snubbed her. 477 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 2: And what was the move like to Cape Town because 478 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 2: then you were in university there. Yeah, it was you 479 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 2: have your own place. 480 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: It was. Yeah. It was nineteen seventy six, and it 481 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: was the year that black South African students rioted against 482 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 1: being taught in Afrikaans. So you felt that it was 483 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: the kind of crucible of revolution, and being nineteen years 484 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: old at that I just thought it's all going to happen. 485 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 2: Now. 486 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:44,719 Speaker 1: The whole thing is going to change because I've been 487 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: Nelson Mandela's daughter, cinzian Zenni were at school with me 488 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: in Swazia and I did school plays with them. So 489 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: we really felt that this was this was the moment 490 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 1: that apart it would end. And of course it took 491 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: another Did you never never met her, No, because they 492 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: used to. They used to come to Swazland by by 493 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: bus from South Africa and then go back by bus. 494 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 2: Then you were taking drama courses? What was that like? 495 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 2: It was? 496 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: I found doing the academic part extremely tiresome because all 497 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: I wanted to do was the practical theater stuff. But 498 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 1: in order to appease my father to get a degree 499 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: because he said, you know, without that, there's no guarantee 500 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: that you could have a job at the other end. 501 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 2: Maybe he was right, Yeah, maybe he was right, so 502 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 2: partly right. 503 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, he heedged his bets, but I think he was What. 504 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 2: Was the other degree? I can't remember. 505 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: You said, oh, does an English drama degree? And then 506 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: I did a theatre diploma. Yeah, I love doing it. 507 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 1: I co founded a multiracial theater company in Cape Town 508 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,439 Speaker 1: for a year for the true Theater Company. 509 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 2: Was that a challenge for you. 510 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: The the what is so contradictory and a knack chronistic 511 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: about the apartheid system was that you could in the theater, 512 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: you could work with black actors and you could socialize together, 513 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: but you couldn't live in the same place, and you 514 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: couldn't go to the same restaurants, which was really bizarre. 515 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: So people could shag each other, and you know, if 516 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: people came to stay that I was at school with 517 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: neighbors in the apartment block that I was living in 518 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: reported us and said there were black people staying in 519 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: a white area. So I then had to go every 520 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: two weeks to police station to take my up Swazland 521 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: and British passports and hand them over and make a 522 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: declaration that I was not harboring any subversives or terrorists. 523 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 2: The theater company did well, Yeah, did really well. 524 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: We were the right people at the right time. Yeah, 525 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: did both. 526 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 2: Do you remember any of the players you put on? 527 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: Oh, we did. The first play that we did we launched, 528 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: was a play about the Communist revolution in nineteen forty 529 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: seven by David Hare called Fanshan, and he very graciously 530 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: because of the politics, all other British playwrights said embargoed. 531 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: Their weren't being done in South Africa, and he allowed 532 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: it because he thought that a play about social change 533 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 1: was apt for that country. And they flew the censorship 534 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: board from Pretoria, twelve hundred miles away to Cape Town 535 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: to come and watch this said. So this bunch of 536 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: very grumpy looking men in suits sat watching us playing 537 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: Chinese peasants. 538 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 2: So yeah, and when you went to Cape Town, you 539 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 2: were on your own, and you didn't have that Monday 540 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 2: Monday beef. Monday beef, I know, the tinfish on Friday? 541 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 2: What did you eat? 542 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: I moved in with two other students who could cook, 543 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: and I used to barter with them, so I will 544 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: do other things. I'll do the shopping is as long 545 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: as you do the cooking. So that's that's sort of 546 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: how it worked. But when I came to England, I 547 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: couldn't I couldn't cook. 548 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 2: How old are you then? 549 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: I have twenty five? I couldn't even boil an egg kitchen. 550 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: My first job in London was as a waiter at 551 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: Touttan's Brasserie Garden. Ye still there? So I was there 552 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: for seven months and worked as a waiter and I 553 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: never got fired. Because I didn't drink allergic to alcohol, 554 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: and I didn't steal because the amount of stealing that 555 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: went on was just extortiny. People take sort a wheel 556 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: of cheese and a winter coat and say, come on mate, 557 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: just get that out, or take this bottle for me. 558 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 2: What did you learn from working in a restaurant? Oh? 559 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: Just the entitlement of some guests was absolutely extraordinary. And 560 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,959 Speaker 1: if people were very rude, their service became even slower. 561 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: And then you could always blame the kitchen and say, 562 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: I'm ly sorry, but oh your food is cold, or 563 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: oh it isn't the full order or whatever. There are 564 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: ways of torturing people. 565 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 2: How long did you work there? Seven months? And was 566 00:29:58,120 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 2: that the only restaurant job you had? 567 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: Yeah? 568 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and a strong job. 569 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: And then I started getting work as an actor, And tell. 570 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 2: Me about those days. Did you have your own apartment? 571 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: I had a bedsit on Blenham Crescent number eighty nine, 572 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: which was thirty pounds a week. You could put your 573 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: hands out either side and touch both walls. It had 574 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: a loo, a tiny cubicle for a shower, and a 575 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: kitchenette beneath a bed that was upper ladder, so the 576 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: width of the bed was the width of the kitchenette underneath. 577 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: Because it was parallel to Portobello Road. And at the 578 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: end of the market day we didn't have much money. 579 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: You could go and get you'd get the throwaway and 580 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: the leftover. It's very, very cheap, all for free. So 581 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: I lived. 582 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 2: I lived on that, and so acting and starting what 583 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 2: year are we in now? 584 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: Nineteen eighty three I met the person who I then married. 585 00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: It did, yeah, And she was a brilliant court absolutely 586 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: amazing cook and rarely followed recipe books, but if she did, 587 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: it was a kind of what do you call a blueprint, 588 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: and then she would improvise on top of that. 589 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 2: So this became a cooking eating relationship. 590 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: And when we got married, she said, you have to 591 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: cook every other night out one night you cooked the 592 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: other night. You have to be an evolved twentieth century 593 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: late twentieth century man. You have to cook as much 594 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: as I do. 595 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 2: And did you go for that? 596 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she also insisted that when we 597 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: got married she'd been married before, that we cook for 598 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: our own wedding party. So we had one hundred people 599 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: and we cooked the day before, well for two days before. 600 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 2: Remember the things we cooked. 601 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: Everything was cold, but we cooked poach, salmon and chicken 602 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: and beefillt. All of this stuff was done in advance. 603 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: She had one rule that whatever party we had, specially 604 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: a Christmas party, she said, every guest has to know 605 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: a minimum of two other people. Otherwise you're not going 606 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: to get harmony in a group of people. And I 607 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: found that pretty fool proof, a safeguard for getting people together. 608 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: Although it's always interesting to have people that don't know 609 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: each other at all, but for that real buzz of 610 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: an event, knowing people some of the people knowing each 611 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: other really helps, I think. And so and she also 612 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 1: thought that cooking for people that people appreciated it more 613 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: than if you got in a cater or somebody to 614 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: help you. Joe used to make your chocolate Nemesis every 615 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: single Christmas party we had, and she'd make two of them. 616 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: And I think the combination of that is must be 617 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: thirty six eggs exactly who is I used to make 618 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: it with her? 619 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 2: What about food and film? 620 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: Oh, the first film I was ever in with now 621 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: and I Richard Griffiths, who was playing Uncle Monte. My 622 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: uncle had arrived from Italy had been filming there with 623 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: the Hunchild and had not done any he hadn't learnt 624 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: the lines terribly well, and Paul McGann and I had 625 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: had a ten days of rehearsal, so we knew the 626 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: script back to front, and Richard kept fluffing his lines 627 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: in this Cumbrian cottage where we were filming, And because 628 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: my character had not supposedly eaten for three days, I 629 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: had to eat very very fast a Sunday lunch of 630 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: roast lamb and roast potatoes, and I think I got 631 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: through four legs of lamb, and I don't know how 632 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: many kilos of potatoes. Eventually had to have a vomit 633 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: bucket next next to me because I couldn't keep it down. 634 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: So I've never eaten lamb willingly since then. But that 635 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: is my That is an extreme experience of eating on set. 636 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: But we used to join and I used to do 637 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: a movie night once a month where if we did 638 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: The Godfather, we had spaghetti. Yeah, we did China Town, 639 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: we had Chinese food, watched Cabaret, we had German food. 640 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: So we do food according to the thing slender excuse 641 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: to to rewatch a great movie and also he delicious food. 642 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 2: We did a podcast with Francis a couple of I 643 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,839 Speaker 2: know recently, and it was you know, he went into 644 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 2: great detail about the food and the Godfather, yeah, and 645 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 2: making the past sauce. There was a movie called The 646 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,240 Speaker 2: Grand Bouf Did you Receive? It was about the many yourself, 647 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 2: you know. 648 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: And I was in couple ofs dracked with Gary Olden 649 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 1: one hundred years ago and we were all staying at 650 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:35,919 Speaker 1: the Napa Valley estate at his house for a week 651 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: of rehearsals because the sony wouldn't pay for them. And 652 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 1: every night he would cook. There must have been fifteen 653 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: sixteen people. And I asked him whether he ever cooked 654 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 1: just for his wife, and he said he didn't know 655 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: how to cook for two people. He could only cook 656 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:54,879 Speaker 1: for fifteen to thirty people. 657 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 2: Imagine a state bottled olive oil chosen and bottled for 658 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 2: the River Cafe, arriving at your door every month. Our 659 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 2: subscription is available for six or twelve months, with each 660 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 2: oil chosen personally by our head chefs and varying with 661 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 2: each delivery. It's a perfect way to bring some River 662 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 2: Cafe flavor into your home, or to show someone you 663 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,800 Speaker 2: really care for them with the gift. Visit our website 664 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 2: shop the Rivercafe dot co UK to place your order. Now, So, Richard, 665 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,439 Speaker 2: we are going to talk about food because I would 666 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 2: ask you, having watched the make crabblinguenie, would you like 667 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 2: to read the recipe for crabblingueni because I have it here. 668 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: Linguini with crabs of ten two large live mail crabs cooked. 669 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: The don't know how you distablished their mail. Yeah, that's 670 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 1: the River Cafe recipe. Three fresh red chilies, seeded and 671 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,280 Speaker 1: finely chopped, juice of four lemons, three clothes of garlic 672 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,600 Speaker 1: peeled and grown to a paste. Two hundred and fifty 673 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: miles of olive oil, five hundred grams of linguini. Remove 674 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: the claws and legs from the crabs, break the bodies open, carefully, 675 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 1: remove the brown meat from inside the shell, and transfer, 676 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: along with any juice, to a large bowl. I get 677 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: rid of most of the brown meat. Remove the white 678 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 1: meat from the claws and eggs, and add to the 679 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,720 Speaker 1: brown meat in the bowl and mix together a tiny amount. 680 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:28,760 Speaker 1: Add the chili, is, the lemon juice and the garlic 681 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: to the crab. Mikejuke, you have have enough of those 682 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: season well, lots of molden salt, stirring the olive oil. 683 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: The sauce should be quite liquid. Cook the linguini and 684 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: a generous amount of boiling salted water. Then drain thoroughly, 685 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: stir into the crab sauce, but do not reheat. Serve 686 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: immediately and stuff your face. 687 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,359 Speaker 2: So tell me what you saw differently in rast doing 688 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 2: it with you? Did it well? 689 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: Ross? I mean, he's so brilliantly fast at doing everything. 690 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: And he put in dried chili, and he put in 691 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: fae as well, which I'd never had. I'd never used that, 692 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: and it isn't specified in your on your recipe changes. 693 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: And he added a little bit of the liquid that 694 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: the pastor was cooked in into the sauce, which gave 695 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: it its cre Yeah, maybe whatever it does or the 696 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: magic of science. And it was absolutely delicious. 697 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 2: So did you miss the coriander? And did you miss? No? 698 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: No means the version. 699 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 2: There you go, And that's about cooking, isn't it. Let's 700 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 2: compare a recipe to a script. So when you're verrising 701 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,399 Speaker 2: your lines, tell me about the difference between a kind 702 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 2: of script and. 703 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: The exact same way. You have the recipe in front 704 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 1: of you. But then something inspires you to add something, 705 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 1: or though you're you go of in a tangent, do 706 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,239 Speaker 1: you ask if the director or the writer are open 707 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,759 Speaker 1: to an adjunct to something, or an addition or an 708 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 1: improvisation of round sections. So it means that it evolves, 709 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: is not? Unless it's Shakespeare. You can't improve on a genius. Really, 710 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 1: I don't think so. And because of the rhythm and 711 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: the meter of it, you would be doing a disservice, 712 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 1: I think if you tried to extemporize on it. 713 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 2: Do you remember cooking for Olivia as a baby? It 714 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 2: was important? Does she cook? 715 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: She cooks fantastic. 716 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, she loves her mother's influence. 717 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, so we do still do cook together. 718 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 2: And she's working on your fragrance. 719 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:31,280 Speaker 1: She does. Oh I was. I've been obsessed with smelling 720 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: everything all my life, and I don't understand why everybody doesn't. 721 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,720 Speaker 2: Can you remember the smells of the markets? 722 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,320 Speaker 1: And oh yeah you can? Yeah, And if you go 723 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 1: into an old fashioned green groser that there's one still 724 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: in twicken Them that I go to every other other week, 725 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,919 Speaker 1: where you can smell the soil and you can smell 726 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: vegetables and fruits in a way that is completely non 727 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: existent in a supermarket. You have to go to French 728 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: or Italian street markets together that as you know all 729 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,359 Speaker 1: too well. So I remember that that smell very much. 730 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: But I've had a mad crush on the first American 731 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 1: that I'd ever met in nineteen sixty nine, called Betsy 732 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 1: Clap with a double pa and Armstrong had just landed 733 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,280 Speaker 1: on the Moon that July, so everything American was so exotic. 734 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: I'd never met an American, you know, I'd seen them 735 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 1: in the movies, so it had this gum chewing, fast talking. 736 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 1: Taught me out a French kiss, and I thought, well, 737 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,800 Speaker 1: I'd try and make her perfume for her birthday, And 738 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 1: of course I boiled up rose and gardenia petals into 739 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: boiled sugar water, and of course it didn't turn it 740 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: to osmos itself into beautiful scent, just into a stink bomb. 741 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 1: And then forty years later, I was on holiday in 742 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: the Caribbean and a fellow house guest, Annie Heinmarch, said, 743 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 1: I've never seen anybody so obsessed with smelling everything and 744 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: scent as you are. Try and make do one professionally, 745 00:39:58,280 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 1: So that's what inspired me to do. 746 00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 2: So are those smells that you can't be in the 747 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,720 Speaker 2: rooms if you smell it. You can't be with cheese. 748 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: When the cheese course comes out, I will I'll just 749 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 1: remove myself, do you Yeah, I think it's the most putrid, 750 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 1: almost all cheese. Yeah. I can tolerate a caesar salad 751 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: because it is delicious, but that's about as smell as 752 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: I can go. 753 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,440 Speaker 2: And so if you have a pastor, you'll never have 754 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:27,320 Speaker 2: parmesan on it. 755 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: And I'll never eat a pizza with cheese. Yeah. Chocolate 756 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 1: is another thing that I find that the smell of 757 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: it is not so it's a bit claggy, but the 758 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 1: taste of it is absolutely repellent to me. 759 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 2: I see that smells and music, You know, I can 760 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:47,400 Speaker 2: remember the song. If I hear a song, I can remember, 761 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 2: you know, what I was wearing, where I was when 762 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 2: I was with. 763 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 1: Scent is exactly the same, the same. Scent is the 764 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 1: shortest synaptic leap in your brain to your memory. So 765 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: you can smell something that you haven't smell for forty 766 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 1: years and it will like music, it will instantly take 767 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: you back to the place where you first smelled. 768 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,840 Speaker 2: That is there a smell that if you need comfort 769 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 2: that you want to smell. What is yours tomato sauce? 770 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,799 Speaker 2: When my son died and we were all ran back 771 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 2: to the house, everybody was everywhere, and so all the 772 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:19,960 Speaker 2: other children and my husband we got to the house 773 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,440 Speaker 2: and I was going up the steps into our bedroom 774 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 2: and one of my kids came in and I said, Abe, 775 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,880 Speaker 2: put tomato sauce on. I need to smell tomato sauce 776 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 2: cooking that I just needed to have that smell in 777 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 2: the house, that somehow there was a continuation was whatever 778 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,320 Speaker 2: it was. So I think that smelled to me always 779 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:42,400 Speaker 2: is a sense of comfort. 780 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: What is yours Christmas pudding? 781 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 2: Ah? 782 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,239 Speaker 1: Which I eat once a month? You don't, I do? 783 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:47,919 Speaker 1: You don't? 784 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:49,800 Speaker 2: You don't wait up all year for Christmas? 785 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: Can't wait that long. I'd need one once a week, 786 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,560 Speaker 1: but I'd explode. And in January every store and shop 787 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,360 Speaker 1: is literally throwing them like footballs at such a scant 788 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,279 Speaker 1: to get So I got twenty seven waiting in my 789 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:03,560 Speaker 1: pantry at the moment. 790 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 2: So we have your smell, your favorite smell Christmas pudding? 791 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 2: What is your comfort food? 792 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:09,719 Speaker 1: Baked beans? Oh? 793 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 2: Is it? Tell me about that? 794 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 1: Oh? Just baked beans, because I've had them my entire life, 795 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 1: and you just heat them up and put them on 796 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,440 Speaker 1: a piece of toast. What's yours probably does. 797 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 2: If I feel a sense of stress or pandic, I 798 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 2: do want chocolate. I do find a piece of chocolate. 799 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 2: It's that crave. I crave a piece of chocolate. But 800 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:34,279 Speaker 2: then again, for me, it would be tomato pasta. Yeah, 801 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 2: that if I can have, even if it's cold the 802 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,720 Speaker 2: next morning, I can have. If I have that carb 803 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,320 Speaker 2: of the of the pasta with tomato sauce, I'm a 804 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:44,080 Speaker 2: happy person. 805 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,800 Speaker 1: Have you always said tomato sauce instead of tomato? So 806 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 1: I go back and forth, you do? 807 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 2: It just depends on my where I am. But I'll say, yeah, 808 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,880 Speaker 2: you say tomato asking tomatow Okay, but let's definitely not 809 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:54,879 Speaker 2: call the whole thing off. 810 00:42:55,000 --> 00:43:02,880 Speaker 1: Okay. Thank you, Richard, thank you, thank you for listening 811 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,880 Speaker 1: to Ruthie's Table for in partnership with Montclair