WEBVTT - Cruising 201 with Professor Pig 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.800 Hey, viewers, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:08.119 queer sex. Filter dirty words and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities. 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:12.360 If hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:15.960 offends your sensibilities, you might want to skip this. Viewer 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:18.880 discretion is advised. It's definitely not for kids. 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:24.239 Put JR pussy, put your put your pussy up, Put 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:26.680 JR pussy put put Jo busy. 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:30.520 Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. I'm Gabeln Sadez and I'm 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:31.520 christodtison Rosso. 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:34.600 Each week we explore the sublime world of queer sex, cruising, 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:35.560 and relationships. 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:37.200 We talked to queer folks of all kinds. 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:41.040 We'll ask some questions, swap sex stories, share intimate revelations, 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:43.640 and provide practical advice that you can use at home. 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:48.600 Let Jo put joust job put job. 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:53.240 So, Chris. I would love to kick us off with 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:55.760 a question. I think I know the answer. 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:58.960 Okay, but have you had any fun cruising experiences since 0:00:58.960 --> 0:00:59.720 our last season. 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:02.880 I've had some great cruising experiences. I've also been traveling 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:06.160 a lot since we've last wrapped up, been in Mexico 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.280 a few times, Florida a couple of times. I've had 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:11.399 some good times. Let's just say I've had fun. 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:15.480 What about you? Have you been cruising? Yeah, but like 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.320 oddly it's been like dryer for me since the last season. 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:20.640 Do you think that your dry spell has anything to 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:22.440 do with you being on this podcast? Like, do you 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:24.520 think that folks are afraid to approach you because they're 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.000 afraid it's gonna come here at the roundtable? 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:29.480 I would hope not. I would hope not. This is 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:30.560 a desperate sos. 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:32.160 If you've been trying to fucking you haven't because you 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:34.880 think I'll talk about you on this podcast, please approach 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:35.319 me anyway. 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:37.760 I probably will. But yeah, No, it's a you know, 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:40.560 a mixture of like depression and work. Really okay, I 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:42.200 think that's it cool co co cool. 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:43.480 Yeah, you know, because I was like a slut and 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:45.040 the November came around, I was like depressed for a 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:45.399 few months. 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:47.680 Yeah, none of that Mexican. Then I felt galvanized and 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:49.400 then I was like, well I have to fuck because 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:49.760 of not me? 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:50.040 Who? 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:50.480 Right? 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:51.080 You know what I mean? 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:54.160 Like that, it's it's a it's a radical act, heavy burden. 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:57.560 It's responsibility. Well, now that we've gotten that out of 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:00.960 our system, I am really excited to dive. In last season, 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:03.280 one of our most popular episodes was our Cruising one 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:05.680 oh one episode with Leo Herrera, who taught us all 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:07.840 about the basics of cruising and some of the ways 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:10.600 beginners can make the most of their cruising experience. 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:13.200 But cruising is such a rich and yes hot subject. 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:16.200 There are so many brilliant thinkers who've expanded our understanding 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:18.040 of all the complexities of cruising. 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:19.960 And today we will be talking with one. 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.359 Joel Florencio is a professor of Gender Studies and Chair 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:27.520 of Sex, Media and Sex Cultures at Lynnshipping University in Sweden. 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:31.200 His research focuses on the body, media technologies and sex 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:32.440 in contemporary culture. 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.040 As a writer and researcher, he's covered everything from kim 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.359 sex culture to ancient Roman sex. His new book, co 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.880 written with artist Liz Rosenfeld, is called Crossings Creative Ecologies 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:42.359 of Cruising. 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.520 We have lovingly been calling him Professor Pig while prepping 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.919 for this episode. Please welcome to the Sniffy's Cruising Confessions podcast. 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:51.520 Joel Florencio. Joel, how are you hey? 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:54.160 I'm great. Thank you excited about this? 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:55.600 Yeah, thank you so much for calling in. 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:58.840 You've written about sex, pigs, and chem sex, and now 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.480 your new book with Lizrae Folk is focused on cruising. 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.080 I think one of the things that we've all enjoyed 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:06.840 most about your work is that you are in academic 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:10.239 but you also put your own experiences with sex and 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:13.840 cruising and porn into your work. How much of your 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:16.760 day is spent cruising or looking at sexual media and 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:18.680 how much is spent writing about those experiences. 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:21.280 Let me tell you I have a very bad work 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:25.960 life balance because those things tend to mix into one another. 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:29.440 When I'm doing research, I'm mostly looking at porn, sex media, 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:32.720 talking about it, reading about it, which is also not 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:36.880 different from my leisure time watching porn is maybe, I mean, 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:39.040 more than half of my day these days. To me, 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:40.680 the world is always like something that I'm part of 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:43.320 rather than something I observe from the out side. That's 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:46.200 really where kind of my work starts from. And I 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:49.560 think that kind of honesty is valuable. There's a lot 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.080 of value in trying to acknowledg where you're coming from. 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:53.680 And that's where I come from, and that's where my 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:57.040 questions come from, and it makes sense to tell my 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:59.840 readers this is what happened. So here's the questions that 0:03:59.880 --> 0:04:00.880 I now have about it. 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:03.400 Your work sort of touches on this idea of porn 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:06.520 or sex media as a kind of queer archive, like 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.600 an historical archive, And I'm curious in your work, what 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:12.040 do you think porn or sex media can tell us 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:14.960 that maybe other historical documents might not be able to. 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:18.960 That's a really good question because a lot of our histories, 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.480 if you think of like histories of homosexuality, you know, 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:25.040 there are histories of activism, there are histories of you know, 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:29.080 heroic figures, but you know, most fagots were not engaging activism. 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:34.440 Most fagots were looking for dick no correct. So there 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.600 needs to be a kind of an understanding that if 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.039 we want to tell the histories of homosexuality, we cannot 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:43.840 grasp everything that homosexuality has been if we're only looking 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:48.640 at activist records, or even the flip side of that is, 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:52.039 you know, court records, criminal records, and medical records, which 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.480 is basically the sources of like the history of sexology. 0:04:55.680 --> 0:05:00.520 What is left is you know, trash, smutty culture that 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:04.520 is historically really have no value for most of academic disciplines, 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.600 but you can learn a lot, you know. I have 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:10.239 this project now called The Europe That Get Born Built, 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:14.000 and it's looking at at post war dirty magazines and 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.600 their circulations across Europe and how important they were to 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:22.200 shape a kind of a shared gay European imaginary, much 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.000 more than activist magazines, much more than like activist rhetoric. 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:26.960 It was, you know, the dirty pigs that made the 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:29.559 facts come together in more than one sense. 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:32.360 Right, Thank you to the pigs. 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.080 Thank you to the pigs so much. I would love 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:36.800 for you to tell us about your new book. You're 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:39.720 recently in New York for a reading with your co 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:42.120 author Liz Rosenfeld, So tell us a bit about how 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:44.080 this project keep a life and how it's been sharing 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:44.480 this book. 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:48.520 I've known Liz. We met in Berlin twenty seventeen. Maybe 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:52.200 from the first moment we met. We just started talking 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:54.840 a lot about sex and cruising and kind of bonded 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:56.880 over that as well as kind of bitching a lot 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.840 about things we didn't like in in cruising spaces and 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.400 kind of sex places more generally, and at some point 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:04.080 we were like babes, I think we need to write 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:09.680 a book, of course, as you do as you do. 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:12.960 I mean, I'm an academic and I'm obviously like, okay, 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:17.080 how can I turn this into work? And you know, 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:19.320 and Liiz has been doing performance and video work on 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:23.360 cruising for many years. Liz and I are very close friends. 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:26.200 We never fucked, but we're very close friends, and we 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:28.800 kind of approach this book as like the two of 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:29.800 us cruising each other. 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.480 How did you decide on the voice of the book? Right, Like, 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:36.320 how did you decide that this is the way that 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:37.719 we were going to tell these stories. 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:40.120 It's written the first person. You never really know who 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:44.120 really is writing, whose stories belong to whom Obviously some 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:47.560 puns you can guess. But it's this kind of collective 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.800 voice that we think is also very much the kind 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:52.640 of the voice of cruising. You know, when people get 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:54.640 together in a room or in a park and just 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:57.920 become something that is kind of more than one. And 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.840 we really wanted it to like the product of both 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.480 our minds and very different life experience that overlap in 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:08.960 any ways to kind of produce these these different voice, 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:12.840 perhaps queerer voice, And that's a faggot in the transmask faggot. 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:16.880 So that felt to us that kind of pointed the 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.760 book in the direction that we wanted, which was kind 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:22.320 of this idea that spaces of cruising gout actually spaces 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:24.880 of like openness and possibility. It's about, you know, opening 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:28.320 yourself to others. It's also like somehow like a baby, right, 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:32.200 and so the baby has to have both DNA's right, Yeah, 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:36.920 so that voice is really our authorial DNA of each 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:38.360 of us kind of mixed together. 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.480 Reading it felt like when you're in a dark room 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.240 and you're touching someone and then you think you're still 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.800 touching them, but you realize that someone else, someone else, 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:48.240 and you're kind of like, this feels great too. 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:53.480 It's precisely that there's something quite beautiful about our kind 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:58.680 of willingness to reach out to strangers and to bodies 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.960 that we don't know. So, yeah, you got it, we 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:02.560 got it. 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:06.400 Yes, How does your own cruising story begin? What was 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.520 the first time you went out and were like, all right, 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:10.000 let me get my toes in and see what this 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:10.520 is about. 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:15.480 Okay. So I was kind of a baby faggot born 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:19.400 in a very rural part of Portugal, you know, like 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:22.560 the nearest even gay bar was was in Lisbon, which 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:24.440 is like an hour and a half away drive. So 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:29.840 I was entering a public toilet somewhere in rural Portugal 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.360 and realizing that something was going on, and I kind 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:35.800 of trying to make sense of what was going on, 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.040 and then soon joining it. So it was kind of 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:40.680 very organic. I hadn't I didn't even know what cruising 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:45.120 exactly was. I just kind of grasped it. So maybe 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:49.520 there's this kind of baby faggot radar that was like, oh, 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:53.480 there's more people doing things that you will enjoy, and 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.520 it was really extremely formative. Obviously, part of it was 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.520 already happening online through like chat rooms. Thank god that 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.880 was dial up internet by dance, so there was ways 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:06.920 of meeting people. But to me, the most exciting and 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:12.319 the most thrilling were finding myself in places where these 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:14.800 like spaces of sex and spaces of something else like 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:17.880 collapse into one another. So you know, train stations, I 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:22.240 love trading stations, I love truck stops, you know, restrooms 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:25.000 in shopping malls and you know Portugal in general, but 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:28.240 by that time had very very small kind of gay scene, 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:32.360 but this stuff was everywhere, so that's really how it 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:35.320 kind of started. It was a lot to like throwing 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.720 myself into the deepend in that sense. 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:40.920 One of the things we found intriguing about your writing 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:43.000 is your assertion that cruising is very important to queer 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:45.280 history in terms of our origin story. Could you talk 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:48.000 a little bit about cruising and how we understand it historically, 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.920 because I think the term feels new, but this sort 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:52.840 of practice feels old. 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:55.640 The term itself, you know, not very certain where it 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:57.760 comes from. I know that it was being used in 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:00.440 New York in the early twentieth century, nineteen twenties at least, 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:03.040 but yeah, the practice itself, whether I was named, that 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:08.079 was very much widespread throughout European history. Michael Rokee has 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:10.959 a book called Forbidden Friendships from ninety six that really 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:15.079 focuses on this. Sodomy was so widespread in Florence in 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:18.440 the fourteen hundreds that they had to create a special 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:21.920 police called u Fichudela note, which is at the Office 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:25.360 of the Right, whose job was just going around kind of, 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:29.200 you know, calm down the sodomites. So they have records 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.199 and that's how we know. Just in the space of 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:34.439 what like seventy years between fourteen thirty two and fifteen 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:38.760 oh two, at least seventeen thousand men in Florence were 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:42.480 accused of sodomy. Three thousand were convicted. That was a 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:45.760 huge portion of the male population in Florence. You know, 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:49.880 some people argue that the vast majority of men in Florence, 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:52.600 at one point or another will have engaged in sodomy. 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:54.920 So this was happening, you know, in the outskirts of 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:59.280 the city, in drinking spaces, in gardens all over, right, 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.280 not in the center, but at kind of the edges 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:05.120 of the city. And what is also interesting about this 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:08.520 is that this was always places that were also populated 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:12.439 by sex workers, the poor, all the degenerates. Right, they 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:16.719 had this incredible power to be a political risk. The 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:20.840 city wanted to regulate sodomy because sodomy created a challenge, 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.960 to say, the family, and like inheritance, so very much 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:27.920 like an economic challenge. What happens if like an aristocrat 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:32.520 starts like fucking a working class young man on the streets, 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:35.520 what kinds of allegiances can be forged? 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:35.760 There? 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:39.000 Could someone in the kind of an upper class start 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.520 paying more attention to these young men with whom they 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:45.960 were engaging in sodomitic relationships and perhaps pay us attention 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:47.640 to the family, to the wife, and to this kind 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:51.800 of material duty of reproducing, of sharing inheritance, etc. So 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.040 that this was a real problem at the level of 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.079 economics of the city and of wealth. It was a 0:11:57.160 --> 0:11:58.640 threat to the maintenance of you know, the kind of 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.880 class system of Florence too. It's also very related to 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.400 what like Sam Delaney writes in Times Square Red, Times 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.680 Square Blue, when he's writing about being in a place 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:11.280 with someone who's not like you, maybe recognizing something of 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:13.679 you in this person who is different from you can 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:17.880 completely kind of disrupt the ways in which society is structured. 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:21.040 You see similar things like this. For instance, in like 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.720 post war Italy and France, lots of people who went 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:27.080 to political organizing meetings for like homosexual movement, not because 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.960 they were really kind of pure political beings, but because 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:32.559 they wanted to fuck so because these were spaces where 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.679 he could cruise. You know, May sixty eight, the birth 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:39.640 of these like revolutionary communist movements in Paris. I mean 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:42.199 they write about it. You know, we went for the politics, 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.400 but we really also went for the dick. Those two 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:47.920 things that are not separable. We shouldn't be ashamed of 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.800 talking about them, and we shouldn't be ashamed of how 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:55.760 sex can be a great gateway drug into like radical politics. 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:59.280 These mentaling systems of power and class difference through economy. 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:04.559 Yeah, that's so fascinating right throughout history. 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:06.000 First of all'm struck by the fact that there were 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.240 women's sex workers in the spaces where gay men we're 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:08.960 fucking in Florence. 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:10.760 I think we've put an end to the women in 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:12.000 gay spaces debate. 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:15.800 When gays stopped being faggots and started being gays. We 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.000 forget about who we came from and who was there 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:22.280 with us when we started making concessions in order to 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:26.720 gain fuller political citizenship and political participation. That the dominant 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:30.160 movement thought that we would have to clean ourselves from 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.600 associations without the groups, and that I think was a mistake. 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.440 As you can see from what's happening today right they're 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:37.240 coming for all of us. 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:40.319 Something that struck me was a crazy roup cruising opens 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:44.200 us queers a delicious portal to time. The sentence really 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:47.960 stuck with me, and I'm wondering what you think spending 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:51.080 a lot of time in a cruising space can teach 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:52.520 us as queer people. 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.920 Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. In the you know, straight world, 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:58.280 it's the time of work, the time of you know, 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:03.920 being productive society. It's the time of social reproduction bringing 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:07.160 more people into the world. It's the time of being born, 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.360 going to school, finding the love of real life, marrying, 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:12.480 having children, retiring, all of that. So this is a 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.520 kind of very strict idea of what time is and 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:16.800 how time should go. 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:17.400 Well. 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:21.680 I think it's interesting about queer sex sculptures, including cruising, 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:24.520 is how it's like time that you are wasting. It's 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:28.000 not productive, there's no profit at the end. It can 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:30.600 be time that you waste simply because you can't score too. 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.000 You know, you just turn up and you spend like 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.600 you know, time in a place and then maybe the 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.360 thing you want that is not there, but maybe you 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.600 just went there as well for the thrill of it. 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:42.640 You just maybe went there to watch it is something 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.280 quite beautiful too, just to be there and to to 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:48.160 kind of be in that space. I mean, I love 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.400 seeing people fuck, like whole festival. Last year, there was 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:53.280 this one night it was quite late, I don't know, 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:56.760 early morning. I just sat outside the cruising area just 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:01.760 hearing people having orgasms. You know, that was something so 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:06.120 beautiful about this. It was just like a whole crowd 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:09.720 of people just screaming, and not just guys. You know, 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:13.480 it was really a whole kind of diversity of screams 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:16.440 of pleasure, and it was just people were lost in 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:19.400 their own pleasure, in the pleasure of people, the people 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:21.520 they were with. So that's kind of what I think 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:25.480 what losing oneself in these temporalities really kind of allows 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.400 you to experience to kind of maybe allowing yourself to 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:32.840 like be taken off the righteous temporal path. You know, 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:36.280 certainly anyone who's like, you know, a good boy would 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:38.560 be you know, sleeping, ready to go to work. 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:41.160 Yeah, but other good boys could be you know, like. 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:43.760 Other good boys could be taking those loads. 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:45.200 You know, that was not a good boy that I 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.080 thought you were talking about. There's two types boys. 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:52.000 All Right, we're going to take a quick break, but 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.280 when we come back, we'll hear some more practical advice 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:56.640 from Juao about making the most of your cruising. 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:58.400 Experience and get a few hot stories out of him. 0:15:58.440 --> 0:15:59.680 So stay tuned. Will be right back. 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:07.400 Now we've heard about Draw's new book, Crossings the creative 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:09.680 colleges are cruising, and we know that job does a. 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:10.840 Lot of his own research. 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.560 So in this act we are going to pump Professor 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:17.080 Florencio over his likes, dislikes, and best practices when it 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:17.760 comes to cruising. 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:20.960 What is your ideal cruising experience. 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:25.600 I like cruising that happens in unexpected places, which comes 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:27.960 with each challenges, especially if you're the bottom, you know. 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.280 I like the thrill of figuring it out, the glances, 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:34.080 the thrill of the chase, is it is it not? 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:37.760 It's kind of like building up of sexual tension. And 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.080 when this is happening in places where other people are 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:41.880 there but they don't even know that is happening, that's 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.280 quite a turn on. And I think there's something more 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:48.480 more open in these places rather than say going to 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.480 a leather night, Robert night this or that night, or 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:53.720 like this club is for this, this club is for that. 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:58.080 That can make cruising very regimented with too many rules 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:00.760 and regulations and who can come in, who can't come in, 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.520 who can fuck with whom? Public spaces to me are 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:05.720 really the the ideal place. 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.760 You've done a lot of traveling, and you've done a 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.520 lot of research on cruising space is what has been 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.440 your favorite cruising spot, like your hidden gym. 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:18.480 There's parks that I very much like. I mean Hampstead 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.879 Heat in London is one of those classic ones. George 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:24.800 Michael was there was arrested there, so no places with history. 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:28.040 I like to my places with history, you know, commune 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:32.959 with the spirit of our ancestors and hasn't hide in Berlin, 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.840 another park has a quite nice cruising area that is 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:38.640 actually quite mixed in the sense of you know, it's 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:40.879 not just there's lots of trade there. There's lots of 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.959 people who don't go to gay spaces who go there 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:45.760 for cruising, and I think that's really kind of one 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:47.720 of the reasons why I like this. You know, you 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.280 don't need to pay money to go cruise. Cruising is 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:53.320 like a ride, you know almost places like light like 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:55.639 parks really give you that experience. 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:58.320 All Right, we've heard about some of your cruising likes. 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:00.680 What are some of your dislike It's like, what type 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:02.320 of behavior do you not like to see when you're 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:03.240 in cruising spaces? 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:08.480 Yeah, I don't like very hot spaces. I think you know, 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.240 we've been like fighting for our rides or whatever. For 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:14.159 such a long time, a cruising space needs to be 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:19.399 air conditions. It's the least. I'm a girl of a 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.439 certain age by now, I don't. I don't put myself 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:26.639 to really hot places. They still have not discovered their 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:29.440 conditioning in Germany. But I was at lab perhaps the 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:32.800 most infamous, filthiest gay male sex club that I've ever 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:35.680 been here. We know her. Yeah, I was in full run. 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:38.280 But the place was packed and I did is like 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:42.240 massive like with of paupers, and it was so hot 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.720 I almost fainted. I had to run out to like 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:51.400 get fresh air, like no. But apart from you air conditioning, 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:53.359 there's lot of behaviors I don't like, you know, I 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.560 don't like abuse. You sadly see it a lot. I 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.600 wish people didn't bring things we don't like to see 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.280 in the world world into these spaces. We see these 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:05.200 kinds of you know, ways of dealing with people that 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:07.600 you know, people are not like disposable object. And I 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:10.560 think it's important that we, you know, remember that even 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:12.680 in our own kind of fantasies, that there is a 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:16.760 space between fantasy and and reality, and you don't treat 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:20.720 people like shit. Cruising etiquette is something that we developed 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.560 and that we should really be proud of. And if 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:25.360 we forget about it, you should go back to gay 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:28.320 school too to remember it, to re learn it. You know, 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:33.520 there's ways of rejecting someone's advancing without being a dig 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.600 At our best. We were doing like instent politics before 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:38.840 can sin become a thing for everyone else? You know, 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:42.159 we had ways of saying yes and no, not definitive 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:44.800