WEBVTT - Paulina Porizkova

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<v Speaker 1>This is me, Craig Ferguson. I'm inviting you to come

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<v Speaker 1>and see my brand new comedy hour. Well it's actually

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<v Speaker 1>it's about an hour and a half and I don't

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<v Speaker 1>have an opener because these guys cost money. But what

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<v Speaker 1>I'm saying is I'll be on stage for a while. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>come and see me live on the Pants on Fire

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<v Speaker 1>Tour in your region. Tickets are on sale now and

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<v Speaker 1>we'll be adding more as the tour continues throughout twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty five and beyond. For a full list of dates,

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<v Speaker 1>go to the Craig Ferguson show dot com. See you

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<v Speaker 1>on the road, My DearS. My name is Craig Ferguson.

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<v Speaker 1>The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to

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<v Speaker 1>interest in people about what brings them happiness. Hello everyone, now,

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<v Speaker 1>my guest today was one of my favorite recurring guests

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<v Speaker 1>on the old Late Night Show. She is a remarkably interesting,

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<v Speaker 1>fascinating human being with an amazing story to tell, which

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<v Speaker 1>if you hang around and you're about to hear she

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<v Speaker 1>is the check Wonder Girl. Howlina Rishkova. That's how you

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<v Speaker 1>say in check, or you could say it in America

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<v Speaker 1>by saying Kawlina Potskova, Yes, she enjoy there you are right?

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<v Speaker 1>May I say? We both don't look a day older

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<v Speaker 1>than when we were carrying on on late night.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I think we look about a decade older, but

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<v Speaker 2>I think it suits us.

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<v Speaker 1>How about that? Well, okay, I'll take it. I suppose

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<v Speaker 1>I do. I don't think you do? You look incandescent?

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<v Speaker 1>Are you happy? Yes?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm I am very happy. Not gone, you know Czech

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<v Speaker 2>tradition Eastern European have to touchwood. Yes, I'm I am

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<v Speaker 2>actually incredibly happy, or at least you're talking to me

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<v Speaker 2>at a moment where I am incredibly happy. How about you?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, pretty good. Actually I'm in a reasonable mood

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm reasonably happy. I feel like it's quite interesting

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<v Speaker 1>the last time we spoke. Whenever we spoke before, it

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<v Speaker 1>was always for ten minutes in front of a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of hundred people, and I always thought, you know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>such an odd thing because I felt like I knew

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<v Speaker 1>you and I felt like we were friendly. But we really,

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<v Speaker 1>honestly are conversations. We're just that. Yeah, it's maybe a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit how did you do beforehand? And that was it?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know after I did your show for the

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<v Speaker 2>first time, all my friends sort of came away and

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<v Speaker 2>they were all, like, my god, you guys had such chemistry.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like you were old friends, and so, yeah, I think.

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<v Speaker 1>That's one of those things you remember certain people. You

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<v Speaker 1>were always one of my favorite guests. You still are

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<v Speaker 1>to this day. So let me tell you this though.

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<v Speaker 1>What you can't do in ten minutes is you really

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<v Speaker 1>can't find out about someone. And what I wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>talk to you about today is because we always joked

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<v Speaker 1>to you about you were coming from Eastern Europe and

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<v Speaker 1>stuff like that. But you correct me Ifro'm wrong, But

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<v Speaker 1>weren't you born when the Soviets were still in control

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<v Speaker 1>of Eastern Europe? Is that right?

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<v Speaker 2>Actually, thanks you making me a little younger than I

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<v Speaker 2>actually am. I just turned sixty last week. So I

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<v Speaker 2>was born in sixty five and the Soviets came in

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<v Speaker 2>in sixty eight, so I was I was three years

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<v Speaker 2>old when they occupy the country. And this is what

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<v Speaker 2>sort of set up my life and the life of

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<v Speaker 2>my parents on a very interesting personal trajectory. Besides, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the whole country going to shit.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, do you remember the Soviets were you

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<v Speaker 1>were you out there by you were out there quite young.

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<v Speaker 2>No, So what happened was that my parents left in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen sixty eight because they knew, you know, we were

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<v Speaker 2>getting occupied. Everybody knew this. The tanks were rolling in,

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<v Speaker 2>and few brave people decided to chance it and leave.

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<v Speaker 2>My parents were two of those, two of those, because

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<v Speaker 2>they were you know, they were like my mother was

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<v Speaker 2>like twenty one, my dad was twenty four. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>they're very young. And they jumped on a motorcycle and

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<v Speaker 2>just drove between the tanks and drove out to Austria

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<v Speaker 2>to a refugee camp. And they left me behind, thinking

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<v Speaker 2>that they would get me a couple of weeks later,

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<v Speaker 2>you know that, you know, once they were established in

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<v Speaker 2>the normal country, that they would just be able to

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<v Speaker 2>get me out. And that did not work at all.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was out with my grandmother, and of course,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, three, I have no I had no idea,

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<v Speaker 2>just figured, oh, my parents sort of suddenly disappeared. Nobody

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<v Speaker 2>told me where they went, so I sort of assumed

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<v Speaker 2>that they were dead, but in a kind of a

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<v Speaker 2>childish way of like, oh, my parents went to heaven,

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<v Speaker 2>and I couldn't, well, you know happened.

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<v Speaker 1>So you you didn't think you were traumatized by it

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<v Speaker 1>in anyway. I feel like I feel like I feel

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<v Speaker 1>like this is a deep and profound childhood trauma right there.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, it's a deep and profound childhood trauma, all right. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>But it doesn't start plaguing you until you grow up

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<v Speaker 2>and you try to form relationships, you know, Yes, that's

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<v Speaker 2>when you kind of get the full impact of what

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<v Speaker 2>actually happened and how you included together.

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<v Speaker 1>Let me ask you about this, this amazing like an

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<v Speaker 1>odd question, but have you ever had in your life

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<v Speaker 1>a fear of flying?

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<v Speaker 2>I did? I had. I had a huge fear of

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<v Speaker 2>flying for about twenty years in between not being scared

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<v Speaker 2>at all and then not being scared at all. Again,

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<v Speaker 2>very what are you asking?

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<v Speaker 1>Because there's a guy there's a fear of flying guy

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<v Speaker 1>and old. I think he was an American airlines captain.

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<v Speaker 1>His name is Tom Bann and he does he helps

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<v Speaker 1>people who are frightened of flying. And I used to

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<v Speaker 1>be fighting of flying too. Oh really and yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>he says that a lot of it is not about

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<v Speaker 1>flying at all, but a lot of it is to

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<v Speaker 1>do with when you were a kid an authority figure

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<v Speaker 1>that you should trust and that you placed all your

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<v Speaker 1>trust in lets you down badly, and later on it

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<v Speaker 1>manifests itself as a fear of flying. I just thought, oh, well,

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<v Speaker 1>this sounds like a classic. Is that really? How did

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<v Speaker 1>you get over it.

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<v Speaker 2>As a desire to control? Yeah, I am a cot

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<v Speaker 2>and utter control freak. How about you?

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<v Speaker 1>Pretty much the same? What I did was is I

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<v Speaker 1>became a control freak so much so that I got

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<v Speaker 1>my pilot's license, I learned to fly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that makes perfect sense to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, isn't that funny? A lot of people that like

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<v Speaker 1>that's crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, now that's the way to go about it. You

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<v Speaker 2>can then pilot your own plane. And I what I

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<v Speaker 2>did was I got myself a Vestpa that I ride

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<v Speaker 2>around New York and that makes me feel like I'm

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<v Speaker 2>in control.

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<v Speaker 1>You still write it around Oh yeah, yeah, yeah that

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<v Speaker 1>is baller? Is it the classic Italian looking thing with

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit in the front and river? Then yes,

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<v Speaker 1>fucking great, Yes, that is great.

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<v Speaker 2>I've had it for like twenty eight years or something.

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<v Speaker 2>I used to drive my kids to school on it,

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<v Speaker 2>and so they were like always like the hippest kids

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<v Speaker 2>to you know, get off their moms by in their

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<v Speaker 2>little leather jackets and you know, flick your hair.

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<v Speaker 1>Very show cow baby.

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<v Speaker 2>It's cool and it's in New York.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you still in New York? Yeah, you know, I

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<v Speaker 1>just moved back to New York.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I did not know that way day. Do you

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<v Speaker 2>catch me up on your life? What are you? What

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<v Speaker 2>are you up to?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, I'm not doing tons. I'm doing some things,

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<v Speaker 1>but I've been doing live stuff because I you know,

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<v Speaker 1>doing stand up because I kind of after Late Night

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, I don't know if I ever want

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<v Speaker 1>to see the inside of a television studio or again.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm over that now and I'm doing it. But

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<v Speaker 1>it was kind of it was so intense that period

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<v Speaker 1>that like ten years, I'm doing the show every night,

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<v Speaker 1>ten minute conversation, ten minutes. Some people you remember, like you,

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<v Speaker 1>I remember, of course very well. But there are people

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<v Speaker 1>who were on that, like I've met since who have said, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>you should have been on the Late Night Show and

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<v Speaker 1>they're like, oh, I was on it three times a

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<v Speaker 1>bit and so I kind of like, I do stand

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<v Speaker 1>up and I do bits and pieces and I went

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<v Speaker 1>to live in Scotland for a while for like five years.

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<v Speaker 1>I think, well, then we move. We moved back after that.

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<v Speaker 1>But have you ever moved back to Europe? Have you

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<v Speaker 1>ever spent time back there? You never gone back?

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<v Speaker 2>I really love Europe, Like I feel when I go

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<v Speaker 2>back there, there's a part of me that feels at

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<v Speaker 2>home or maybe safe to some extent. But you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I've lived in the United States now longer than I've

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<v Speaker 2>lived anywhere else in fact. So see this apartment. This

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<v Speaker 2>is a rented apartment that I'm very passionate. I love

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<v Speaker 2>this apartment because it's the first place that I got

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<v Speaker 2>to move in by myself since I was like eighteen.

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<v Speaker 2>I chose all the wallpaper and made it look kind

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<v Speaker 2>of European. But right across this wall right there, Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>the very first apartment that I rented when I was

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<v Speaker 2>seventeen years old and I moved to New York. So

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<v Speaker 2>I live right next door to the seventeen year old me.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah, how is the seventeen year old you do it?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, well, she's dead.

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<v Speaker 1>Well let me ask you this. I put it a

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<v Speaker 1>different way, so you're left behind in check or what

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<v Speaker 1>they called I guess what did they call it?

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<v Speaker 2>Then it's a well, it was Czechoslovakia back then. Then

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<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to do the Czech Republic. And now we're

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<v Speaker 2>supposed to call it check. Yeah, which is what we

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<v Speaker 2>checks have always called it CHECKI check Chickie.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I don't know any any check person I've talked

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<v Speaker 1>to about. I'm going to talk to a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>the producer of the show, Tomas, who's check.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I can know by his last name.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's called Zachopalzo.

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<v Speaker 2>Bill means somebody who was buried.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's I think it's it's undertaker or something, isn't it,

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<v Speaker 1>which is perfect for him.

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<v Speaker 2>Poor man.

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<v Speaker 1>No, No, he's great, he's just he's a he's a cheerful,

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<v Speaker 1>dark soul.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think we all are.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the Czech people are quite like that, right, quite

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<v Speaker 1>cheerful but quite well.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, we've been occupied for our entire existence. So like

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<v Speaker 2>there's a there's a you learned that life is best

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<v Speaker 2>lived with incredibly low expectations, and that things can turn

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<v Speaker 2>on the dime, and that you know things are happy

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<v Speaker 2>today and tomorrow somebody will come in and wreck your life.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is amazing. It's like talking to a very

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<v Speaker 1>beautiful version of Tomas.

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<v Speaker 2>We're all the same.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello. This is Greig Ferguson and I want to let

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<v Speaker 1>you know I have a brand new stand up comedy

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<v Speaker 1>special out now on YouTube. It's called I'm So Happy,

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<v Speaker 1>and I would be so happy if you checked it out.

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<v Speaker 1>To watch the special, just go to my YouTube channel

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<v Speaker 1>at the Graig Ferguson Show and is this right there?

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<v Speaker 1>Just click it and play it and it's free. I

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<v Speaker 1>can't look. I'm not going to come around your house

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<v Speaker 1>and show you how to do it. If you can't

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<v Speaker 1>do it, then you can have it. But if you

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<v Speaker 1>can figure it out, yours. So what happened then? Did

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<v Speaker 1>you ever reunite with your parents? Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's quite quite a bit of a story. I

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<v Speaker 2>guess you can always edit it out right.

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<v Speaker 1>No, it's not at all, but.

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<v Speaker 2>You're welcome to if you want to. So what happened

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<v Speaker 2>was that my parents. My parents made it into Austria.

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<v Speaker 2>They didn't get shot, so that was nice. I was

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<v Speaker 2>left with my grandmother and then from the Austrian refugee

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<v Speaker 2>camp they got sent to Sweden, which was a big

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<v Speaker 2>you know, a place that was hospitable to refugees at

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<v Speaker 2>that point, and then they were trying to get me

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<v Speaker 2>out and they couldn't. The borders were closed and you know,

0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:49.280
<v Speaker 2>that was over. So my parents, again being very young

0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:54.360
<v Speaker 2>and very photogenic, decided to sort of raise awareness for

0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.280
<v Speaker 2>their cause of like not being able to get their child.

0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.840
<v Speaker 2>And so they started with doing a hung strike in

0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:04.599
<v Speaker 2>front of the Stockholm Embassy, the Czech embassy in Stockholm,

0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:08.280
<v Speaker 2>to tell you who, get people empathetic and sign you know,

0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:13.440
<v Speaker 2>sign on a whatever lists of people protesting the Czech

0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:19.640
<v Speaker 2>government not allowing their daughter to be released. And the

0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:24.319
<v Speaker 2>Czech government did absolutely nothing, but the Swedes really liked us.

0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:29.920
<v Speaker 2>They got kind of whipped into a frenzy of helping

0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:34.880
<v Speaker 2>these two young, beautiful people to get their daughter out.

0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:38.960
<v Speaker 2>So I became sort of a cause celeb of course, figures.

0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.400
<v Speaker 2>It was like my early career. I was a famous

0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.280
<v Speaker 2>political refugee and I became famous in Sweden as like

0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:46.599
<v Speaker 2>little Paulina, poor little Paulina.

0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:51.959
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, I didn't no idea, So how did did

0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:53.880
<v Speaker 1>they get you out? The Swedes got you.

0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:58.360
<v Speaker 2>Out there kind of eventually, but three years my parents

0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:00.520
<v Speaker 2>were using all the press and all the me and

0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:05.520
<v Speaker 2>they were on TV and eventually a Swedish magazine. Actually,

0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.680
<v Speaker 2>I believe the checks sent them my parents a letter

0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:13.360
<v Speaker 2>saying that because they hadn't claimed me for three years,

0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:16.320
<v Speaker 2>I was going to be adopted to a suitable family.

0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:19.800
<v Speaker 2>So that of course would mean that they would lose

0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:23.480
<v Speaker 2>me forever. And they did sort of this desperate last

0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:28.520
<v Speaker 2>attempt in which a Swedish newspaper funded getting two Swedish

0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:34.240
<v Speaker 2>pilots and my mother to go and kidnap me on

0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:36.520
<v Speaker 2>my way from school. They were going to kidnap me.

0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:39.120
<v Speaker 2>They had a false passport for me. My mother had

0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:43.080
<v Speaker 2>a false passport claiming she was one of the pilot's

0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.720
<v Speaker 2>wife and that they were just coming to the Czech

0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:51.120
<v Speaker 2>Republic to look at planes to purchase, and while they

0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.200
<v Speaker 2>did that, they were going to grab me and pack

0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:55.840
<v Speaker 2>me off into a small plane. Of course, nobody considered

0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:58.160
<v Speaker 2>how I would feel about this, not having seen my

0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:02.000
<v Speaker 2>mother in four years and didn't know who she was anymore.

0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:08.600
<v Speaker 2>But they so, and the newspaper had, like, what do

0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.920
<v Speaker 2>you call it? A you know, it was their story.

0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:17.880
<v Speaker 2>It was, yeah, there's an exclusive story. And so my

0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.160
<v Speaker 2>mom and those two pilots, my mom had a wig

0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:23.360
<v Speaker 2>and glasses and the false passport, and they land in

0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:27.600
<v Speaker 2>the Czech Republic or Czechoslovakia. They rent a car and

0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.840
<v Speaker 2>they're driving on the way to my little town to

0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:34.560
<v Speaker 2>get me on my way to school, and they get

0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:40.640
<v Speaker 2>busted for speeding. Yeah uh, and so they get taken

0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:46.480
<v Speaker 2>to a police station interrogated. Apparently somebody might have written

0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.280
<v Speaker 2>to the authorities that my mother was going to try

0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:49.920
<v Speaker 2>to kidnap me.

0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:53.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:57.120
<v Speaker 2>So so the whole thing unspooled and that they were

0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:59.960
<v Speaker 2>all put in jail, the Swedish pilots and my mother.

0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.520
<v Speaker 2>My mother was six months pregnant with my baby brother.

0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:09.000
<v Speaker 2>And now this newspaper had gotten a way better story

0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:10.520
<v Speaker 2>than they even bargained for.

0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:15.280
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, I know. Yeah, but what goes on?

0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:17.000
<v Speaker 1>How long are they in jail? What happened?

0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:21.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, my mother is in jail for about three months,

0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:25.680
<v Speaker 2>and then because there was you know, the Sweden was

0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, it was all our story. Oh my god,

0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Anna Broskova got caught. She's in jail, she's pregnant, she's

0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.040
<v Speaker 2>not gotten to see Paulina, Like you know, this is

0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:40.200
<v Speaker 2>like a huge story. So she was given amnesty. About

0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:43.040
<v Speaker 2>three months into this, she got given an amnesty and

0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:47.040
<v Speaker 2>so she was allowed to come and stay at my

0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:52.720
<v Speaker 2>grandmother's house with me and grandma under house arrest for

0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:56.280
<v Speaker 2>the next three years. The Swedish pilots I believe, were

0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:57.920
<v Speaker 2>in jail for like ten years.

0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:02.320
<v Speaker 1>What yeah, baby brother, and your baby brother is born,

0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:03.760
<v Speaker 1>your dad is still in Sweden.

0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.280
<v Speaker 2>Dad is still in Sweden, and my dad is sort

0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:11.000
<v Speaker 2>of carrying on, you know, doing all the interviews. He's

0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:14.399
<v Speaker 2>meeting with all of Palmer, the Swedish Prime minister, to

0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:17.680
<v Speaker 2>see if there's a way that all of Palmer can

0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:22.719
<v Speaker 2>move anything to get us out, and there's like and

0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:26.080
<v Speaker 2>this is going on for another three years of this

0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.480
<v Speaker 2>sort of back and forth, Swedish newspaper men coming into

0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:31.719
<v Speaker 2>the Czech Republic to take pictures of us that they

0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:37.119
<v Speaker 2>can then publish in magazines in Sweden. And at the

0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:39.560
<v Speaker 2>end of those three years, so in nineteen seventy three,

0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.560
<v Speaker 2>I believe there the Swedish hockey team was supposed to

0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.919
<v Speaker 2>play the checks in like the International Friendships Games or something,

0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:51.320
<v Speaker 2>and they refuse to play the checks unless they released us,

0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.320
<v Speaker 2>and all of Palmer refused to make a States visit

0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:58.080
<v Speaker 2>unless they released us, and then they finally and then

0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:00.399
<v Speaker 2>they pouted us out, say in nineteen seventy three day

0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Tom's passport and said get out and don't ever come back.

0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.200
<v Speaker 2>And then that was that's crazy.

0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:09.439
<v Speaker 1>No, you see, this is something that doesn't come up

0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:14.280
<v Speaker 1>in a ten minute conversation. So you're by this thing,

0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.040
<v Speaker 1>what nine years old? Almost?

0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:20.600
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so I was nine when we left the check repart.

0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:23.640
<v Speaker 1>Right, and now you become a Sweedish citizen, I guess right.

0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:25.760
<v Speaker 1>And families reunited.

0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:29.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for about a week or so. Because my dad

0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:32.280
<v Speaker 2>had found some other woman while I'm alm was gone,

0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:37.480
<v Speaker 2>so he promptly left. And then mom was sort of

0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:39.560
<v Speaker 2>a single parent and she was having a bit of

0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.520
<v Speaker 2>a nervous breakdown, and so it was me and my

0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:46.240
<v Speaker 2>little brother kind of left to our you know, own devices.

0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:50.320
<v Speaker 1>As they say, this is a movie polylievable.

0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.159
<v Speaker 2>I know, but every time I tell somebody the story,

0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:55.960
<v Speaker 2>they're kind of like, yeah, it's kind of too much.

0:18:56.240 --> 0:19:01.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, did just give me half of that story?

0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.920
<v Speaker 2>The full story is? It's unbelievable.

0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:07.240
<v Speaker 1>And then you know what, I think maybe it's not

0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.560
<v Speaker 1>a movie. I think it's like ten episodes on Netflix,

0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:11.359
<v Speaker 1>that's what it is.

0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:13.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it has to be a limited TV

0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:14.280
<v Speaker 2>series thing.

0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:18.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think it is you ever, because then after that,

0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.800
<v Speaker 1>if you're like you're now like nine, ten years old,

0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:27.439
<v Speaker 1>you're in Sweden, and by the time you're what seventeen,

0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:28.640
<v Speaker 1>you're eleven in New York.

0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:31.879
<v Speaker 2>Well by the time I'm fifteen, I'm a model in

0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:33.320
<v Speaker 2>Paris on my own.

0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:34.720
<v Speaker 1>How does that happen?

0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:35.359
<v Speaker 4>Is it?

0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Because your famous little Paulina is now growing up? She's

0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.480
<v Speaker 1>very beautiful and actually she's not grown up, she's only fifteen.

0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:43.160
<v Speaker 1>Why is she going to Paris?

0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:47.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, because models start very young. I think I think

0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:48.360
<v Speaker 2>we know that.

0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:53.240
<v Speaker 1>That seems very very young, doesn't you know?

0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:57.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, yes, it's very very young. But I was I

0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:00.840
<v Speaker 2>had a girlfriend who really was interested in fashion, and

0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:03.480
<v Speaker 2>she wanted to be a fashion photographer. And mind you,

0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:06.959
<v Speaker 2>we're like teens, you know, like little teens do the selfies,

0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.280
<v Speaker 2>you know these days. So she sort of she would

0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:13.560
<v Speaker 2>take pictures of me on her little instematic pocket camera,

0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:18.240
<v Speaker 2>and then she sent those pictures into some scout in

0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:21.119
<v Speaker 2>the city where we lived in lund in Sweden, to

0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:23.679
<v Speaker 2>ask what she thought of her photography, like, oh, do

0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:27.040
<v Speaker 2>you you know, how do I become a fashion photographer?

0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:29.800
<v Speaker 2>And the lady got back to her saying yeah, you know,

0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:32.480
<v Speaker 2>photographyish photography. Who's the girl? How old is she? And

0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:33.159
<v Speaker 2>how tall is she?

0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:34.199
<v Speaker 1>Wow?

0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.960
<v Speaker 2>And she introduced me to John Cassiblanket when I was fourteen.

0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:40.879
<v Speaker 2>He took a look. He said, would you like to

0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:44.200
<v Speaker 2>go to Paris over the summer? And I was like, uh, yeah,

0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:47.840
<v Speaker 2>And so I was sent to Paris over some Now

0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:51.600
<v Speaker 2>it was supposed to be just a summer job in

0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:56.080
<v Speaker 2>all fairness, Yeah, but you know I got to Paris

0:20:56.119 --> 0:21:00.960
<v Speaker 2>that I was fifteen, I was really four. I started

0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:05.080
<v Speaker 2>working kind of right away, and by the time the

0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:09.920
<v Speaker 2>summer was over, I had traveled like I had gone

0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:13.280
<v Speaker 2>to Morocco, I had gone to Japan on my own

0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:15.680
<v Speaker 2>by myself. They just they would hand me a plane

0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:18.919
<v Speaker 2>ticket and say go, and I would go. And going

0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:21.800
<v Speaker 2>going back to school seemed boring.

0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:26.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, I understand it, does it do? I mean, look,

0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:29.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm not your father, as you well know, but it

0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:33.640
<v Speaker 1>does worry me. Wait what Yeah, it worries me though

0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:37.480
<v Speaker 1>the idea of that fifteen year old sixteen year old

0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:40.840
<v Speaker 1>Paulina is two and the fashion world is not renowned

0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:44.960
<v Speaker 1>for being full of scrupulous characters.

0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:49.600
<v Speaker 2>Kind men who want what best, fatherly type.

0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, how how was it? Did you how did

0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:57.320
<v Speaker 1>you manage? Were you okay?

0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:00.959
<v Speaker 2>Well with okay meaning you know, did I survive? And

0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:04.400
<v Speaker 2>not get right like, clearly you survived? But yes, yes,

0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:07.600
<v Speaker 2>clearly you survived and clearly you thrived. But was it

0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:10.720
<v Speaker 2>a very difficult time? Was at a very unpleasant time? Well?

0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:12.719
<v Speaker 2>You know what it was both, to be honest, it

0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:17.760
<v Speaker 2>was being fifteen and completely unsupervised and making more money

0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:20.720
<v Speaker 2>in three months and your parents making a year is

0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:25.639
<v Speaker 2>not a terrible place to be at times. And then

0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:28.840
<v Speaker 2>at times, you know, when you're by yourself in your

0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:34.080
<v Speaker 2>little apartment and you are scared and you're young and

0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:38.280
<v Speaker 2>you don't really know there's no real safety for you,

0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:42.880
<v Speaker 2>than it's scary. So it was both. It was sort

0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:46.159
<v Speaker 2>of a time of extremes. I think, you know, it's.

0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:48.879
<v Speaker 1>An interesting thing as well, because if you are and

0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:51.880
<v Speaker 1>you clearly are, I mean, I'm sure you're at peace

0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:56.920
<v Speaker 1>with this now. But you're very beautiful. And so when

0:22:57.200 --> 0:23:01.399
<v Speaker 1>people are very beautiful, I've noticed that something's other people

0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:04.000
<v Speaker 1>will punish them in bed, they'll be quite cruel to them.

0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:09.399
<v Speaker 1>They become a little strange. Particularly, I think you know,

0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:12.160
<v Speaker 1>they always say things like beauty's only skin deep and

0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:15.080
<v Speaker 1>it's not really that valuable, and what you have is

0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:19.040
<v Speaker 1>just luck and kind of downplay it all the time,

0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:22.760
<v Speaker 1>which I think is kind of I don't think that's necessary.

0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:27.280
<v Speaker 2>Really, well, is it necessary?

0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:27.600
<v Speaker 1>No?

0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:31.200
<v Speaker 2>I think it's It's just it's a human emotion when somebody,

0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:36.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, how we all compare one and ourselves to

0:23:36.760 --> 0:23:41.040
<v Speaker 2>other people. We can't help it. It's a biological function comparison. Right,

0:23:41.240 --> 0:23:44.480
<v Speaker 2>where do I stand in society? And when you are

0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:47.960
<v Speaker 2>seen as an attractive and young woman, by the way,

0:23:48.160 --> 0:23:48.960
<v Speaker 2>you have to be yelp.

0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:50.080
<v Speaker 1>The nice thing.

0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:53.160
<v Speaker 2>About being older is that I don't get that anymore.

0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:56.640
<v Speaker 2>Nobody gives a shit. It's like, you can be attractive

0:23:56.680 --> 0:23:59.280
<v Speaker 2>because you know, guys are not going to go for

0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:00.720
<v Speaker 2>me anymore because I'm too old.

0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:04.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I don't know if that's entirely realistic, but fair enough.

0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:07.880
<v Speaker 1>I'll go with you. And the uh, thank you. So

0:24:08.720 --> 0:24:11.679
<v Speaker 1>you're doing these modeling assignments and stuff like that, and

0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:14.720
<v Speaker 1>you are clearly again all this information from the world

0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:16.639
<v Speaker 1>that you are young and you're beautiful, and that is

0:24:16.640 --> 0:24:19.720
<v Speaker 1>a commodity, and so you what do you do? You

0:24:19.760 --> 0:24:21.879
<v Speaker 1>take it to New York that's what you decide to do,

0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:23.880
<v Speaker 1>or did the job take you there?

0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:28.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, No, it's you know, it's there's a very small

0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:31.400
<v Speaker 2>there's very little decision making when you're a fifteen year

0:24:31.440 --> 0:24:34.439
<v Speaker 2>old child, you do you sort of the nice thing

0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:37.639
<v Speaker 2>about it is that you're endlessly flexible, right, so right

0:24:37.760 --> 0:24:40.280
<v Speaker 2>wherever they put you, you just kind of go with

0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:41.800
<v Speaker 2>it and you go, oh, well, that's this is the

0:24:41.840 --> 0:24:45.359
<v Speaker 2>way it's supposed to be. Have you ever seen Felini's eight.

0:24:45.280 --> 0:24:49.399
<v Speaker 1>And a half a long time ago, like a long

0:24:49.480 --> 0:24:50.000
<v Speaker 1>time ago.

0:24:51.000 --> 0:24:53.720
<v Speaker 2>Well, I just I just rewatched it the other day,

0:24:53.800 --> 0:24:57.119
<v Speaker 2>and it's a really kind of a cool movie and

0:24:57.160 --> 0:25:00.439
<v Speaker 2>it's beautiful. Yeah, but it really is. He's kind of

0:25:00.520 --> 0:25:06.080
<v Speaker 2>like the insane ravings of a middle aged man who

0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:10.920
<v Speaker 2>finds himself, you know, doesn't know where where he's going

0:25:10.960 --> 0:25:14.199
<v Speaker 2>next career wise, and all these women that he's disappointed,

0:25:14.280 --> 0:25:21.639
<v Speaker 2>and you know, a man in menopause. And I just

0:25:21.680 --> 0:25:24.760
<v Speaker 2>could watch the whole movie. I thought, Oh, like, I

0:25:24.760 --> 0:25:26.600
<v Speaker 2>feel like I watched the film about my father.

0:25:27.560 --> 0:25:30.439
<v Speaker 1>It's funny. Yeah, I know what you mean. Did you

0:25:30.600 --> 0:25:32.679
<v Speaker 1>kind of reunite with your father? Did you manage to

0:25:33.080 --> 0:25:35.520
<v Speaker 1>form a relationship with him at all? Is he still around?

0:25:36.000 --> 0:25:37.040
<v Speaker 1>He's still around.

0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:41.000
<v Speaker 2>I made an attempt a few times here and there

0:25:41.080 --> 0:25:46.080
<v Speaker 2>to see if we could perhaps have some sort of relationship,

0:25:46.240 --> 0:25:50.440
<v Speaker 2>and then I always sort of came away with he's

0:25:50.520 --> 0:25:55.680
<v Speaker 2>not really worth it. So no, no, okay, it does

0:25:55.760 --> 0:25:59.919
<v Speaker 2>set you up for a lifetime full of looking for

0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:00.680
<v Speaker 2>the wrong man.

0:26:01.320 --> 0:26:02.960
<v Speaker 1>Do you think you did that? You were looking for

0:26:03.000 --> 0:26:09.159
<v Speaker 1>the wrong man for sure? Yeah, dear, that is upsetting.

0:26:09.720 --> 0:26:13.359
<v Speaker 1>So you're in New York and but like, by this time,

0:26:13.560 --> 0:26:16.560
<v Speaker 1>you know through all of these you know this is

0:26:16.560 --> 0:26:19.199
<v Speaker 1>going on. You're not one of the supermodels, right, and

0:26:19.240 --> 0:26:21.280
<v Speaker 1>that's what they were calling you girls like and you

0:26:21.320 --> 0:26:23.520
<v Speaker 1>were the kind of well you're the first wave of

0:26:23.520 --> 0:26:26.320
<v Speaker 1>the super mussy. Guess you kind of wear right Damn.

0:26:26.320 --> 0:26:29.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, I can't toot my own horn

0:26:29.119 --> 0:26:32.520
<v Speaker 2>because I'm Eastern European. But thank you for thank you

0:26:32.560 --> 0:26:33.960
<v Speaker 2>for mentioning it yourself.

0:26:34.080 --> 0:26:37.520
<v Speaker 1>Yes, so does what does that due to a person

0:26:38.280 --> 0:26:44.479
<v Speaker 1>of obvious intelligence that the message you're getting is that

0:26:44.640 --> 0:26:51.560
<v Speaker 1>you have this this weird power, which is is clearly marketable.

0:26:51.720 --> 0:26:57.239
<v Speaker 1>You're very successful, you're making good money and your world famous,

0:26:57.320 --> 0:27:01.680
<v Speaker 1>and all you have to do is be you.

0:27:02.920 --> 0:27:05.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, actually, it's not so much.

0:27:05.440 --> 0:27:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's not about it.

0:27:09.440 --> 0:27:12.080
<v Speaker 2>In some ways, it's simpler. All you have to do

0:27:12.200 --> 0:27:17.600
<v Speaker 2>is show up. But whether you're you or somebody else

0:27:17.800 --> 0:27:22.200
<v Speaker 2>entirely different inside really doesn't matter. What it does is

0:27:22.240 --> 0:27:25.000
<v Speaker 2>that for a woman, it sort of sets you up

0:27:25.200 --> 0:27:28.840
<v Speaker 2>for feeling like the only thing of importance about you

0:27:29.080 --> 0:27:33.439
<v Speaker 2>is the way you look, so any needs or wants

0:27:33.520 --> 0:27:38.560
<v Speaker 2>or desires or thoughts that you have are absolutely unimportant,

0:27:39.960 --> 0:27:43.119
<v Speaker 2>and it sort of reassures you that that is in

0:27:43.160 --> 0:27:48.520
<v Speaker 2>fact the case. So I think a lot of models

0:27:49.600 --> 0:27:54.960
<v Speaker 2>we have a hard time trying to find just find

0:27:54.960 --> 0:27:58.480
<v Speaker 2>out who we are, you know, who we are outside

0:27:58.560 --> 0:28:02.679
<v Speaker 2>this facade that everybody has sort of narrowed down to

0:28:02.880 --> 0:28:14.760
<v Speaker 2>just being a shell. How did you find yourself? How

0:28:14.760 --> 0:28:16.120
<v Speaker 2>did you find out where you were?

0:28:16.920 --> 0:28:19.560
<v Speaker 1>Was there a process that you went through that was

0:28:19.920 --> 0:28:23.840
<v Speaker 1>conscious or did it? Did it just happened or I mean,

0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:27.560
<v Speaker 1>I feel like I assume. I don't know why I

0:28:27.600 --> 0:28:29.640
<v Speaker 1>assume this, but it seems to me like you seem

0:28:29.680 --> 0:28:32.400
<v Speaker 1>to me like someone who reads, who is connected, who

0:28:32.480 --> 0:28:39.040
<v Speaker 1>is interested in the arts, and then politically motivated as well.

0:28:39.600 --> 0:28:41.040
<v Speaker 1>Would that be correct?

0:28:41.360 --> 0:28:45.320
<v Speaker 2>That would be correct, Although it didn't seem to matter

0:28:45.600 --> 0:28:50.680
<v Speaker 2>very much to literally anybody but perhaps myself.

0:28:51.280 --> 0:28:53.560
<v Speaker 1>Well that's good though, that it matters to you.

0:28:53.880 --> 0:28:56.120
<v Speaker 2>It's also infinitely frustrating.

0:28:56.800 --> 0:29:00.080
<v Speaker 1>Oh I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure, because no one is

0:29:00.120 --> 0:29:03.240
<v Speaker 1>going to take you seriously about anything you say at

0:29:03.240 --> 0:29:04.080
<v Speaker 1>all at any point.

0:29:04.880 --> 0:29:05.840
<v Speaker 2>Correct.

0:29:06.800 --> 0:29:12.480
<v Speaker 1>That's so fucking mad. Yeah, fucking mad. I don't know

0:29:12.480 --> 0:29:15.160
<v Speaker 1>how anyone could put up with that. Did you find

0:29:15.160 --> 0:29:16.280
<v Speaker 1>yourself getting angry?

0:29:17.680 --> 0:29:19.800
<v Speaker 2>I think there was a fair bit of anger, but

0:29:19.840 --> 0:29:23.560
<v Speaker 2>I also I'm also scared of anger, so I I

0:29:23.600 --> 0:29:27.840
<v Speaker 2>think I would reduce that anger to contempt, a sort

0:29:27.840 --> 0:29:32.240
<v Speaker 2>of a slow, simmering contempt for all, for everybody.

0:29:32.960 --> 0:29:38.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's that's actually quite cool. I think I as

0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:43.360
<v Speaker 1>I sort of seething contempt for everyone. I have to say,

0:29:43.520 --> 0:29:48.120
<v Speaker 1>I find that quite attractive that I could have.

0:29:50.400 --> 0:29:54.600
<v Speaker 2>So that's something about your own childhood trauma.

0:29:54.720 --> 0:29:58.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, no kidding. But you did find I mean

0:29:58.280 --> 0:30:00.840
<v Speaker 1>you you you got married and you had a family

0:30:00.960 --> 0:30:03.400
<v Speaker 1>in New York City. That all happened to you.

0:30:03.920 --> 0:30:06.400
<v Speaker 2>I did. I met my husband when I was nineteen

0:30:07.080 --> 0:30:09.720
<v Speaker 2>and he was forty one, and he lied about it

0:30:09.760 --> 0:30:11.120
<v Speaker 2>and said he was thirty seven.

0:30:11.240 --> 0:30:15.760
<v Speaker 1>Like that was a big difference. When did you find

0:30:15.760 --> 0:30:18.440
<v Speaker 1>out the truth presumably before the first.

0:30:18.240 --> 0:30:23.520
<v Speaker 2>Child, before we got married. Good, so like five years later,

0:30:24.280 --> 0:30:27.400
<v Speaker 2>oh wow, where he had to come clean, you know,

0:30:27.440 --> 0:30:31.000
<v Speaker 2>because I was going to see the bur certificateself, like

0:30:31.600 --> 0:30:34.840
<v Speaker 2>he couldn't really pretend anymore. And I kept thinking, you know,

0:30:34.880 --> 0:30:38.480
<v Speaker 2>for those five years, I thought things just weren't working

0:30:38.520 --> 0:30:41.480
<v Speaker 2>out timeline wise, you know, like how old his oldest

0:30:41.560 --> 0:30:45.200
<v Speaker 2>child was versus how old he said he was. And

0:30:45.400 --> 0:30:48.400
<v Speaker 2>I kept trying to go back already, go so how

0:30:48.400 --> 0:30:51.640
<v Speaker 2>old is Christopher again? And when did you say you

0:30:51.680 --> 0:30:55.600
<v Speaker 2>have him? And he would sort of skirt by those conversations.

0:30:55.600 --> 0:30:59.560
<v Speaker 2>But uh, yeah, I was very much in love with

0:30:59.600 --> 0:31:04.120
<v Speaker 2>my husban because I feel like I had found well,

0:31:04.120 --> 0:31:06.600
<v Speaker 2>you know how they say that's becoming a cliche now,

0:31:06.600 --> 0:31:08.640
<v Speaker 2>but you marry your unfinished business?

0:31:09.400 --> 0:31:10.080
<v Speaker 1>Is that true?

0:31:10.440 --> 0:31:15.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, absolutely, it's absolutely true. I found a man

0:31:15.760 --> 0:31:21.200
<v Speaker 2>who with some serious narcissistic tendencies, which both of my

0:31:21.440 --> 0:31:26.120
<v Speaker 2>parents have, and so you know, I married. I married

0:31:26.160 --> 0:31:30.440
<v Speaker 2>my parents and tried to convert them into actually liking me,

0:31:31.280 --> 0:31:34.080
<v Speaker 2>and it worked. It worked for a really long time.

0:31:35.760 --> 0:31:39.800
<v Speaker 1>That's fascinating. Obviously, what I'm doing is I'm going back

0:31:39.840 --> 0:31:43.840
<v Speaker 1>to my own romantic history going, Oh my god, I

0:31:43.880 --> 0:31:44.240
<v Speaker 1>hate this.

0:31:45.160 --> 0:31:46.720
<v Speaker 2>How many times have you been married?

0:31:46.760 --> 0:31:50.600
<v Speaker 1>Now? I'm on number three?

0:31:50.880 --> 0:31:52.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, lucky three, but.

0:31:52.720 --> 0:31:55.640
<v Speaker 1>We've been married for a while. I mean, I think

0:31:56.080 --> 0:31:59.760
<v Speaker 1>you married again, didn't you? No, no, you didn't marry,

0:31:59.800 --> 0:32:01.800
<v Speaker 1>but you're you're in a relationship now.

0:32:01.920 --> 0:32:02.959
<v Speaker 2>I'm in a relationship.

0:32:03.040 --> 0:32:05.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, you guys gonna get married.

0:32:06.920 --> 0:32:11.840
<v Speaker 2>Well after my husband died and all the ship that happened.

0:32:12.080 --> 0:32:14.240
<v Speaker 1>I heard about. Some of that I wasn't gonna make

0:32:14.640 --> 0:32:16.400
<v Speaker 1>but yeah, welcome.

0:32:16.120 --> 0:32:17.720
<v Speaker 2>To you because everybody else knows it.

0:32:19.200 --> 0:32:21.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I just didn't want to make you roll around

0:32:21.480 --> 0:32:23.280
<v Speaker 1>in it, you know what I mean. Everybody gets ship

0:32:23.480 --> 0:32:25.320
<v Speaker 1>happened in their life. I didn't want to, like, it's

0:32:25.360 --> 0:32:28.640
<v Speaker 1>none of my business. I how are you with that

0:32:28.720 --> 0:32:31.720
<v Speaker 1>kind of thing? Because I get very uncomfortable in my

0:32:31.800 --> 0:32:33.160
<v Speaker 1>lane and work. I'm going to talk to you, know,

0:32:33.200 --> 0:32:37.240
<v Speaker 1>I talked to you, and you've gone through some public,

0:32:37.440 --> 0:32:39.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, difficulties. I've talked to other people who have

0:32:39.600 --> 0:32:42.400
<v Speaker 1>gone through ablem through who use like doesn't have a difficulty,

0:32:43.160 --> 0:32:45.960
<v Speaker 1>and I'm still I feel a bit seedy. When you

0:32:46.000 --> 0:32:49.000
<v Speaker 1>talk to people about the difficulties of their life, it

0:32:49.040 --> 0:32:56.640
<v Speaker 1>doesn't I'd rather keep it more kind of superficial, I suppose. Well,

0:32:57.640 --> 0:33:00.600
<v Speaker 1>not because just because I don't know, I just don't

0:33:00.640 --> 0:33:02.760
<v Speaker 1>feel like I'm not a journalist, do you know what

0:33:02.800 --> 0:33:05.720
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm not trying to You don't seem bothered

0:33:05.800 --> 0:33:08.280
<v Speaker 1>by discussing that kind of thing.

0:33:09.320 --> 0:33:15.360
<v Speaker 2>No, you know, what I've noticed is that I'm really curious.

0:33:15.720 --> 0:33:23.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm really genuinely curious. And by sort of airing out

0:33:23.480 --> 0:33:29.479
<v Speaker 2>my life very forthrightly and openly on Instagram, which is

0:33:29.520 --> 0:33:31.760
<v Speaker 2>I did by accident, I was just so fucking desperate.

0:33:31.840 --> 0:33:36.200
<v Speaker 2>I didn't really know what else to do. It brought

0:33:36.240 --> 0:33:40.680
<v Speaker 2>all these connections to me other people that maybe had

0:33:40.680 --> 0:33:44.840
<v Speaker 2>similar experiences, and it sort of opens up all these

0:33:44.920 --> 0:33:48.720
<v Speaker 2>channels of connection, which I really appreciate. And so it's

0:33:48.760 --> 0:33:53.920
<v Speaker 2>a different lifestyle. It's a different life. It's that that

0:33:54.040 --> 0:33:59.880
<v Speaker 2>thing that you like so much, that the contempt that, yeah,

0:34:00.320 --> 0:34:05.840
<v Speaker 2>that I've let go of, Yeah, and healthy. I am

0:34:06.200 --> 0:34:09.919
<v Speaker 2>much happier for it. Yes, I mean I was very

0:34:09.960 --> 0:34:12.520
<v Speaker 2>good at it. I had lots and lots of years

0:34:12.560 --> 0:34:12.879
<v Speaker 2>of it.

0:34:13.520 --> 0:34:17.120
<v Speaker 1>But also, you know, you're an Eastern European supermodel. It's

0:34:17.200 --> 0:34:19.120
<v Speaker 1>kind of a good look to be sort of haughty.

0:34:19.480 --> 0:34:22.759
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's kind of I hate everyone.

0:34:24.320 --> 0:34:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Just leave me alone?

0:34:25.520 --> 0:34:26.160
<v Speaker 1>You are?

0:34:27.040 --> 0:34:30.560
<v Speaker 2>You know I am far superior to you. Yeah, but

0:34:31.360 --> 0:34:32.160
<v Speaker 2>that was never me.

0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:34.640
<v Speaker 1>That was never I don't get that from you at all.

0:34:34.840 --> 0:34:35.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:34:35.200 --> 0:34:41.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm essentially a very kind of goofy nerdy. I know.

0:34:41.640 --> 0:34:43.960
<v Speaker 2>It's like all pretty women say they are nerdy, but

0:34:44.239 --> 0:34:49.680
<v Speaker 2>I truly am. I read a lot like I'm not.

0:34:50.280 --> 0:34:52.239
<v Speaker 2>I'm not fabulous.

0:34:52.800 --> 0:34:55.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't know people that read a look and

0:34:55.440 --> 0:34:58.040
<v Speaker 1>be fabulous. You're pretty fabolus. I think you're pretty fabulous.

0:34:58.160 --> 0:35:00.040
<v Speaker 1>What do you read? What are you drawing to? Do

0:35:00.280 --> 0:35:05.759
<v Speaker 1>you read historical fiction? Do you read hardcore physics manuals?

0:35:05.800 --> 0:35:06.560
<v Speaker 1>What are you growing to?

0:35:07.520 --> 0:35:10.800
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so maybe a little lighter on the hardcore physics

0:35:10.840 --> 0:35:16.480
<v Speaker 2>manuals okay, uh huh. But otherwise I read pretty much everything.

0:35:17.760 --> 0:35:21.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm kind of indiscriminate in food and reading, but no

0:35:21.760 --> 0:35:22.880
<v Speaker 2>longer in my men.

0:35:23.560 --> 0:35:27.040
<v Speaker 1>No. No, I think that's that's a very wise choice

0:35:27.800 --> 0:35:32.560
<v Speaker 1>about What about writing? Because you wrote a very interesting

0:35:32.680 --> 0:35:36.760
<v Speaker 1>article was the New York Times? You wrote that America

0:35:36.880 --> 0:35:37.760
<v Speaker 1>you made me a famous?

0:35:38.480 --> 0:35:39.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Times?

0:35:39.800 --> 0:35:43.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, some pretty sway. Are you writing more? Are

0:35:43.280 --> 0:35:45.480
<v Speaker 1>you writing books? Yeah?

0:35:45.600 --> 0:35:47.880
<v Speaker 2>So I think when I I think when I was

0:35:47.920 --> 0:35:50.880
<v Speaker 2>on your show, I had I think I had published

0:35:50.920 --> 0:35:53.799
<v Speaker 2>my novel. You had published a novel. Because I read

0:35:53.800 --> 0:35:56.840
<v Speaker 2>your novel, which was very good. I was going to

0:35:57.000 --> 0:35:59.160
<v Speaker 2>ask you, are you are you writing more?

0:36:00.000 --> 0:36:03.440
<v Speaker 1>You know what? I've been writing a follow up novel

0:36:03.520 --> 0:36:06.720
<v Speaker 1>to that novel for the past fifteen years. I think

0:36:07.160 --> 0:36:11.520
<v Speaker 1>it's hard. It's hard, Well, you have to write. Did

0:36:11.560 --> 0:36:13.600
<v Speaker 1>you write another novel? Have you read another novel?

0:36:14.040 --> 0:36:17.200
<v Speaker 2>Not a novel? I wrote a book of personal essays

0:36:17.600 --> 0:36:20.920
<v Speaker 2>that was that came out two years ago, and that

0:36:21.160 --> 0:36:25.600
<v Speaker 2>was actually incredibly rewarding it. I wrote it in three months. Wow,

0:36:26.520 --> 0:36:31.240
<v Speaker 2>I know, a fellow writer can Yeah, I am, Yeah,

0:36:31.280 --> 0:36:32.200
<v Speaker 2>that's amazing.

0:36:32.239 --> 0:36:34.200
<v Speaker 1>What did you just binge it? Did you just like

0:36:35.600 --> 0:36:37.640
<v Speaker 1>sixteen hours a day of that kind of thing? Yeah?

0:36:37.719 --> 0:36:40.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, every day, sixteen hours. I wanted to see if

0:36:40.200 --> 0:36:40.839
<v Speaker 2>I could do it.

0:36:41.480 --> 0:36:44.239
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, the challenge of it, and I could do it,

0:36:44.280 --> 0:36:48.400
<v Speaker 4>so I'll never do it again. But that was it

0:36:48.440 --> 0:36:50.359
<v Speaker 4>was kind of crazy, but I did do it, and

0:36:50.840 --> 0:36:52.960
<v Speaker 4>it was you know it was, but it was in

0:36:53.080 --> 0:36:56.040
<v Speaker 4>the time. It was after my husband's death and all

0:36:56.080 --> 0:37:01.040
<v Speaker 4>of the shit that happened and COVID and losing my

0:37:01.200 --> 0:37:05.120
<v Speaker 4>house and all of this stuff, and so all the

0:37:05.160 --> 0:37:07.719
<v Speaker 4>things I wanted to write about were like right there.

0:37:07.760 --> 0:37:10.319
<v Speaker 4>You know, they were all occupying my brain for the

0:37:10.440 --> 0:37:13.319
<v Speaker 4>last two years anyway, so it was just kind of like.

0:37:14.040 --> 0:37:16.920
<v Speaker 2>Slash the vein, bleed all over the paper.

0:37:17.080 --> 0:37:21.760
<v Speaker 1>And I totally understand it's a great way to find

0:37:21.840 --> 0:37:27.040
<v Speaker 1>some kind of relief if you're in distress, psychic distress,

0:37:27.960 --> 0:37:31.560
<v Speaker 1>to write. I think somehow. I think it's a little

0:37:31.560 --> 0:37:33.560
<v Speaker 1>bit to do what we talked about right at the beginning.

0:37:33.600 --> 0:37:37.359
<v Speaker 1>It's about control that if you write it down, you're

0:37:37.360 --> 0:37:40.440
<v Speaker 1>in charge of it, you know. I mean when I

0:37:40.480 --> 0:37:44.440
<v Speaker 1>wrote that novel, I was going through a divorce. It's

0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:48.360
<v Speaker 1>very difficult, and you know, I had no control over it,

0:37:48.520 --> 0:37:50.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, I didn't know where it was going next.

0:37:51.280 --> 0:37:53.360
<v Speaker 1>But if I could go to the book and I

0:37:53.560 --> 0:37:55.759
<v Speaker 1>write a book, I knew where everyone was going to

0:37:55.840 --> 0:37:59.359
<v Speaker 1>go because I put them there, and it kind of helps.

0:38:00.000 --> 0:38:00.839
<v Speaker 1>I think you write more.

0:38:01.840 --> 0:38:04.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh oh oh, absolutely. I mean I kind of feel

0:38:04.520 --> 0:38:09.839
<v Speaker 2>like writing is what I really do now, even on

0:38:09.880 --> 0:38:15.040
<v Speaker 2>my Instagram thread. What I really use it as is

0:38:15.480 --> 0:38:19.520
<v Speaker 2>like an outlet for my writing for you know, things

0:38:19.560 --> 0:38:21.719
<v Speaker 2>I think of that I want to put down I

0:38:23.280 --> 0:38:24.840
<v Speaker 2>sort of to test the fact that it has to

0:38:24.880 --> 0:38:28.600
<v Speaker 2>be followed with a picture and now more recently videos

0:38:29.920 --> 0:38:34.880
<v Speaker 2>that is I mean, it's it's all completely narcissistic anyway,

0:38:34.920 --> 0:38:37.920
<v Speaker 2>but like it's really pushing the envelope and it's like,

0:38:39.520 --> 0:38:44.160
<v Speaker 2>but that's I appreciate the fact that I get to

0:38:44.200 --> 0:38:45.759
<v Speaker 2>have a voice and I get to use it in

0:38:45.800 --> 0:38:46.600
<v Speaker 2>the way that I want.

0:38:47.360 --> 0:38:51.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, no, I hear you. What about the like

0:38:51.760 --> 0:38:54.040
<v Speaker 1>social media, because when I was on Instagram I'm not

0:38:54.120 --> 0:38:56.600
<v Speaker 1>on anymore. I used to follow you on an Instagram

0:38:56.680 --> 0:38:58.960
<v Speaker 1>time would see your posts and stuff like that with

0:38:59.000 --> 0:39:02.440
<v Speaker 1>your you know, anger and stuff, and it was, you know,

0:39:02.800 --> 0:39:06.120
<v Speaker 1>it was great, but I didn't I've come off I

0:39:06.160 --> 0:39:09.399
<v Speaker 1>have like people who do it, no, because I kind

0:39:09.400 --> 0:39:13.759
<v Speaker 1>of interact with the amount of I don't know. I

0:39:13.800 --> 0:39:16.760
<v Speaker 1>just don't like it. It feels like unfiltered negativity, pooring

0:39:16.840 --> 0:39:17.759
<v Speaker 1>at me. I don't like it.

0:39:18.520 --> 0:39:21.839
<v Speaker 2>Well, it can be that, and then it also be

0:39:22.160 --> 0:39:25.920
<v Speaker 2>like sort of unquestionable positivity, which.

0:39:25.719 --> 0:39:29.840
<v Speaker 1>You also true, that's true, And I also don't know

0:39:29.840 --> 0:39:30.560
<v Speaker 1>if I like that.

0:39:30.840 --> 0:39:33.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, I know, I don't like it. I like

0:39:33.239 --> 0:39:37.000
<v Speaker 2>whenever somebody says, you know, actually, my boyfriend was saying

0:39:37.040 --> 0:39:38.920
<v Speaker 2>that the other day. It's like, Oh, I'm so proud

0:39:38.960 --> 0:39:41.600
<v Speaker 2>of you, and I was like, and then he sort

0:39:41.640 --> 0:39:43.719
<v Speaker 2>of stopped and said, you don't like when I say that,

0:39:43.800 --> 0:39:47.319
<v Speaker 2>do you. I was like, no, No, that that's a

0:39:47.440 --> 0:39:50.680
<v Speaker 2>very blanket statement to me. That doesn't mean anything. It's

0:39:50.760 --> 0:39:55.000
<v Speaker 2>just it's more about you than it is about me. Yeah,

0:39:55.040 --> 0:39:59.000
<v Speaker 2>and that sort of unfiltered adoration that you can get

0:39:59.160 --> 0:40:02.759
<v Speaker 2>off of social as well as unfiltered hate. They're both

0:40:02.840 --> 0:40:06.239
<v Speaker 2>kind of in the same basket of they need to

0:40:06.239 --> 0:40:09.320
<v Speaker 2>be put aside. They're not they don't matter.

0:40:10.320 --> 0:40:13.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm complicated. It's a complicated emotion and I'm not

0:40:13.680 --> 0:40:15.439
<v Speaker 1>quite sure because you want to be nice to people

0:40:15.480 --> 0:40:17.080
<v Speaker 1>who like you, and you don't want to be nice

0:40:17.080 --> 0:40:19.400
<v Speaker 1>to people to dislike you. And the truth is, I

0:40:19.400 --> 0:40:22.920
<v Speaker 1>don't think it really mars that much, you know. It's

0:40:22.960 --> 0:40:25.319
<v Speaker 1>one of those things. In fact, it was Tomas who

0:40:25.400 --> 0:40:27.920
<v Speaker 1>said it because I was getting upset about something on Twitter.

0:40:28.080 --> 0:40:29.640
<v Speaker 1>This is how long ago it was. It was Twitter

0:40:29.719 --> 0:40:33.080
<v Speaker 1>years ago, and he said to me, with his Eastern

0:40:33.120 --> 0:40:37.439
<v Speaker 1>European accent, if you don't look, it's not there. It's

0:40:37.600 --> 0:40:41.880
<v Speaker 1>kind of like, isn't it. It's not there, it's not

0:40:42.040 --> 0:40:44.000
<v Speaker 1>it's not a thing. If you don't pay any attention

0:40:44.080 --> 0:40:47.759
<v Speaker 1>to it, it disappears. Yeah. Well, very few things in life

0:40:47.760 --> 0:40:49.840
<v Speaker 1>are true like that. You know. It's like if I

0:40:49.840 --> 0:40:52.880
<v Speaker 1>look away, it no longer exists. But I think social

0:40:52.960 --> 0:40:56.000
<v Speaker 1>media has that. You know. It's like if I don't

0:40:56.040 --> 0:40:57.080
<v Speaker 1>look at it, it's not there.

0:40:58.400 --> 0:41:02.280
<v Speaker 2>Well, yes, which is true, but then you're not quite

0:41:02.800 --> 0:41:04.840
<v Speaker 2>and I don't and I don't know that this matters.

0:41:05.320 --> 0:41:09.799
<v Speaker 2>But that's what social media does, uh, is that it

0:41:09.920 --> 0:41:13.800
<v Speaker 2>kind of plugs you into not if you only follow

0:41:13.880 --> 0:41:16.440
<v Speaker 2>people that like you or live in your bubble, but

0:41:16.520 --> 0:41:19.759
<v Speaker 2>when you separate it and look wider, it does sort

0:41:19.800 --> 0:41:26.840
<v Speaker 2>of queue you into sort of the national malaise or

0:41:27.120 --> 0:41:31.919
<v Speaker 2>the feelings of like where people are at. I find

0:41:31.920 --> 0:41:35.880
<v Speaker 2>that very interesting sort of it's just like an anthropology experiment,

0:41:36.000 --> 0:41:36.200
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:41:36.360 --> 0:41:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I get it. It's like you're a little market

0:41:38.440 --> 0:41:43.719
<v Speaker 1>research company. I understand, but it's uh, I don't know.

0:41:44.560 --> 0:41:47.560
<v Speaker 1>I think you've you've done better evolving out of the

0:41:47.560 --> 0:41:50.200
<v Speaker 1>control freak area than I have.

0:41:50.320 --> 0:41:56.280
<v Speaker 2>I Like, I don't know, it's still need into control.

0:41:57.719 --> 0:42:01.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm aware of it, and I I don't need to

0:42:01.600 --> 0:42:05.200
<v Speaker 1>control it. But I think Honestly, I don't know if

0:42:05.239 --> 0:42:08.040
<v Speaker 1>you can relate to this at all, but I think

0:42:08.040 --> 0:42:13.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm actually quite shy, quite reticent. I don't really like,

0:42:14.280 --> 0:42:17.319
<v Speaker 1>you know, I feel it's like, not so much shy.

0:42:17.440 --> 0:42:21.200
<v Speaker 1>That's not right. I think it's unseemly to talk yourself up,

0:42:22.680 --> 0:42:25.520
<v Speaker 1>and I feel like when I see other people doing

0:42:25.520 --> 0:42:28.719
<v Speaker 1>it as well, I find it kind of I don't

0:42:28.719 --> 0:42:30.719
<v Speaker 1>really want to see you saying how great you are.

0:42:30.800 --> 0:42:34.560
<v Speaker 1>It feels kind of like dumb. And that's why when

0:42:34.600 --> 0:42:37.640
<v Speaker 1>you said you had content for everything, I was like, oh,

0:42:37.800 --> 0:42:38.319
<v Speaker 1>that's good.

0:42:39.600 --> 0:42:40.799
<v Speaker 2>I'm not the only one.

0:42:41.440 --> 0:42:44.479
<v Speaker 1>No, I don't have content for everything. I really don't.

0:42:44.520 --> 0:42:48.680
<v Speaker 1>I think I'm quite a joyful person, but I get on.

0:42:48.880 --> 0:42:52.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm a Scottish Protestant. I'm uncomfortable nearly all the time.

0:42:53.360 --> 0:42:56.880
<v Speaker 2>Yes, oh my god, I know that so well. Like

0:42:57.440 --> 0:42:59.640
<v Speaker 2>but being a I mean, I guess at the East

0:43:00.239 --> 0:43:04.920
<v Speaker 2>and Catholic. Yes, being uncomfortable nearly all the time is

0:43:04.960 --> 0:43:06.759
<v Speaker 2>sort of what we've been programmed to.

0:43:06.760 --> 0:43:10.200
<v Speaker 1>Be, right kind of. There is a there is a

0:43:10.360 --> 0:43:17.080
<v Speaker 1>moral kind of grace to feeling bad. That it's a plus.

0:43:17.320 --> 0:43:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Yes, you're a good person if you feel bad about it.

0:43:19.880 --> 0:43:22.280
<v Speaker 1>If you feel bad. Yeah, it's kind of weird, right,

0:43:22.520 --> 0:43:27.719
<v Speaker 1>It's a very weird thing. Look, we're out of time

0:43:27.760 --> 0:43:30.839
<v Speaker 1>for this thing. Are you let me ask you this though,

0:43:31.080 --> 0:43:33.239
<v Speaker 1>Have you done a part? Are you doing a podcast yet?

0:43:33.280 --> 0:43:35.680
<v Speaker 1>Because you know that's next you have to do a podcast.

0:43:35.760 --> 0:43:39.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, everybody and their mother is doing a podcast.

0:43:38.840 --> 0:43:41.359
<v Speaker 1>No offense to you tell me about it. I've got

0:43:41.360 --> 0:43:44.120
<v Speaker 1>ten left on that no twelve left of this one,

0:43:44.480 --> 0:43:47.360
<v Speaker 1>and then I have contractually obliged to do no more.

0:43:48.200 --> 0:43:53.319
<v Speaker 1>And let me tell you I'll be doing no more. Yeah.

0:43:52.920 --> 0:43:57.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, okay, So since you were asking me about podcasts,

0:43:57.080 --> 0:43:58.279
<v Speaker 2>do you enjoy doing them?

0:43:59.160 --> 0:44:03.440
<v Speaker 1>You know I do. But the way that we are

0:44:03.480 --> 0:44:09.120
<v Speaker 1>talking now is I would rather have this see I

0:44:09.320 --> 0:44:11.040
<v Speaker 1>let me backtrack it a little bit and answer it,

0:44:11.040 --> 0:44:13.799
<v Speaker 1>and I kind of round about way. I feel like

0:44:14.480 --> 0:44:16.719
<v Speaker 1>when I do a podcast like this, when I talk

0:44:16.800 --> 0:44:20.560
<v Speaker 1>to someone like you like this on a zoom call

0:44:20.680 --> 0:44:24.160
<v Speaker 1>or whatever we're calling it now, I'm as good as

0:44:24.200 --> 0:44:27.880
<v Speaker 1>anyone else. But I feel like if you and I

0:44:27.920 --> 0:44:30.560
<v Speaker 1>are sitting in the same room and we're talking to

0:44:30.600 --> 0:44:35.440
<v Speaker 1>each other, I'm better than most and I feel like

0:44:35.760 --> 0:44:40.120
<v Speaker 1>I can do this thing better. Not over the zoom

0:44:40.160 --> 0:44:42.880
<v Speaker 1>so if I continue to do it, I want to

0:44:42.920 --> 0:44:45.239
<v Speaker 1>do it so that we can all be in we

0:44:45.239 --> 0:44:48.440
<v Speaker 1>can be in the same room, because there's something about

0:44:48.480 --> 0:44:53.400
<v Speaker 1>the nature of human interaction, which it's okay. I mean,

0:44:53.440 --> 0:44:55.560
<v Speaker 1>we're talking fine, and I'm not holding anything back, and

0:44:55.600 --> 0:44:58.240
<v Speaker 1>I don't get a sense you are either, But somehow

0:44:58.280 --> 0:45:00.919
<v Speaker 1>there is a it's just deffinite to be in the room.

0:45:01.000 --> 0:45:02.200
<v Speaker 1>It creates a different thing.

0:45:03.200 --> 0:45:06.279
<v Speaker 2>I agree. I mean, I think that this is where technology,

0:45:07.080 --> 0:45:09.800
<v Speaker 2>as it joins us together, keeps us apart.

0:45:09.960 --> 0:45:15.279
<v Speaker 1>I mean absolutely, yeah, I think that's exactly so.

0:45:15.280 --> 0:45:18.240
<v Speaker 2>So you're not going to do a podcast, then I'm

0:45:18.280 --> 0:45:22.479
<v Speaker 2>actually also more interested in talking to real people rather

0:45:22.600 --> 0:45:27.280
<v Speaker 2>than than zooming with people. And I've never liked phone calls.

0:45:28.200 --> 0:45:32.040
<v Speaker 2>I still really Oh no, I hate them. Is it

0:45:32.080 --> 0:45:33.200
<v Speaker 2>such a waste of time?

0:45:33.719 --> 0:45:35.680
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, just say what you have to say

0:45:35.680 --> 0:45:38.360
<v Speaker 1>and get off the phone. That's that's please.

0:45:38.440 --> 0:45:41.440
<v Speaker 2>Because I can't see how you look on the phone.

0:45:41.520 --> 0:45:44.960
<v Speaker 2>I can't see your expressions. I can't see the twinkle

0:45:45.239 --> 0:45:50.239
<v Speaker 2>or the disdain in your eye that I need to

0:45:50.400 --> 0:45:51.640
<v Speaker 2>see for conversation.

0:45:52.400 --> 0:45:55.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's exactly I feel about it. I'm like, oh

0:45:55.960 --> 0:46:00.719
<v Speaker 1>my god, I love talking to people. I love, They

0:46:00.760 --> 0:46:03.440
<v Speaker 1>say an island the crack. I love the crack, you know.

0:46:03.560 --> 0:46:06.520
<v Speaker 1>I love joking and laughing and making fun of each

0:46:06.520 --> 0:46:09.239
<v Speaker 1>other and flirting and being silly at all of these.

0:46:09.280 --> 0:46:14.719
<v Speaker 1>I love all of that. But somehow, in this environment

0:46:14.920 --> 0:46:19.160
<v Speaker 1>it's nearly there. But I think I just prefer it

0:46:19.200 --> 0:46:23.279
<v Speaker 1>when it's, you know, the live show, right down to

0:46:23.320 --> 0:46:26.240
<v Speaker 1>the sense of even, by the way, doing stand up comedy.

0:46:26.520 --> 0:46:28.560
<v Speaker 1>I don't mind doing it on TV, and I don't

0:46:28.600 --> 0:46:31.440
<v Speaker 1>mind recording a stand up special. But the truth is,

0:46:31.719 --> 0:46:35.680
<v Speaker 1>the best shows are always in the theater or the club,

0:46:35.800 --> 0:46:38.719
<v Speaker 1>when nobody's got a camera. Those are the best shows.

0:46:39.600 --> 0:46:42.359
<v Speaker 2>And still, I mean, even if you're recording it on

0:46:42.400 --> 0:46:45.319
<v Speaker 2>a camera or whatever, you still are performing it, not

0:46:45.480 --> 0:46:47.040
<v Speaker 2>to the camera, but to an audience.

0:46:47.160 --> 0:46:50.920
<v Speaker 1>Right, yeah, But the camera doesn't get everything. It just doesn't.

0:46:50.960 --> 0:46:54.040
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't get at all. It doesn't get everything. And

0:46:54.120 --> 0:46:58.279
<v Speaker 1>I think, you know, we may be the last of

0:46:58.320 --> 0:47:02.200
<v Speaker 1>a dying breed where you know, the the you know

0:47:02.320 --> 0:47:04.680
<v Speaker 1>that what we're talking about will make no sense to

0:47:04.719 --> 0:47:06.440
<v Speaker 1>anyone under the age of fifty. I don't.

0:47:06.440 --> 0:47:10.319
<v Speaker 2>I know, it's already starting to be a bit like that.

0:47:10.360 --> 0:47:16.000
<v Speaker 2>What's your how old is your youngest child fourteen. Okay,

0:47:16.120 --> 0:47:19.800
<v Speaker 2>so so your fourteen year old will look at you this,

0:47:20.080 --> 0:47:22.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure my the way my children looked at me

0:47:22.520 --> 0:47:25.280
<v Speaker 2>and said, mom, were you alive before computers?

0:47:25.480 --> 0:47:27.680
<v Speaker 1>Oh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:47:27.600 --> 0:47:28.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yes we were.

0:47:29.080 --> 0:47:29.319
<v Speaker 3>Are you?

0:47:29.360 --> 0:47:31.200
<v Speaker 2>Are you a boomer or a gen xer?

0:47:31.840 --> 0:47:36.200
<v Speaker 1>I think I'm actually a boomer. I'm nineteen sixty two,

0:47:37.000 --> 0:47:42.640
<v Speaker 1>so I'm a boomer. Yeah, So fucking get off my lawn,

0:47:42.760 --> 0:47:47.920
<v Speaker 1>you ass all. Oh okay, you did it, and you're

0:47:47.960 --> 0:47:49.240
<v Speaker 1>a dead exer right.

0:47:49.880 --> 0:47:55.960
<v Speaker 3>Yes, I think gen extra Yes, yes, we're the ones

0:47:55.960 --> 0:48:00.560
<v Speaker 3>that are truly sort of in the we stravel both sides,

0:48:01.080 --> 0:48:03.600
<v Speaker 3>I think, more so than anybody else.

0:48:04.040 --> 0:48:08.200
<v Speaker 1>Sorry, Whereas whereas me I all I do is remember

0:48:08.280 --> 0:48:15.880
<v Speaker 1>the war and and when Lord Morris didn't have engines.

0:48:17.400 --> 0:48:22.520
<v Speaker 2>Think the Andrews sisters, the boy of company B.

0:48:25.200 --> 0:48:28.520
<v Speaker 1>All right, get out of here. It's lovely to talk

0:48:28.560 --> 0:48:31.040
<v Speaker 1>to you. I'll talk to you in person soon, please,

0:48:31.560 --> 0:48:34.160
<v Speaker 1>I think that would be really fun. That would be fun.

0:48:34.480 --> 0:48:37.279
<v Speaker 1>That would be fun. Right, It's lovely to see it.

0:48:37.280 --> 0:48:39.600
<v Speaker 2>Was really nice to see you too on this greeny screen.

0:48:40.239 --> 0:48:43.040
<v Speaker 1>I know it'll look better in computer land.

0:48:43.600 --> 0:48:46.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm surely it will but not me.

0:48:47.080 --> 0:48:51.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I know you. You will get out of here. Goodbye.

0:48:51.400 --> 0:48:52.400
<v Speaker 1>That's the anniversial.

0:48:52.920 --> 0:48:56.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, fine

0:49:00.080 --> 0:49:04.520
<v Speaker 3>Apat Popo paper to per