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Speaker 1: So this was a maybe what like Olympic pool sized

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Speaker 1: uh like like like not quite football field, but but

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Speaker 1: like like a big space, large, large cold warehouse. Um.

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Speaker 1: And the entire time that we were there, there were

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Speaker 1: just these palettes of fish being brought in and taken

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Speaker 1: back out again. As the auctioneer and this trailing group

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Speaker 1: of madmen looked at each palette and like and like

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Speaker 1: through tickets down and we're bidding and like like Brooks

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Speaker 1: pointed out a couple of people for us to talk with,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, hey, take care of these guys. Um.

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Speaker 1: We didn't notice step in the water. When we came in.

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Speaker 1: We got yelled at by this guy who I think

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Speaker 1: maybe that's the reason why he came over and helped

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Speaker 1: us out, because he felt bad about the yelling. He

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Speaker 1: was a very sweet guy. At the end. He actually

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Speaker 1: personally put his hand on my shoulder and said, I'm

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Speaker 1: really sorry that I raised my voice at you. He did.

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Speaker 1: I witnessed it, oh man, and he had so many

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Speaker 1: tips for me. I loved it. He was like, oh

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Speaker 1: wait till they get to the mah Ma, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: go down. Like he tells all about those like cookie

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Speaker 1: Cutter sharks, and I was very glad for his like,

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Speaker 1: oh commentary comment all insights. Yeah, swordfish is huge, They're

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Speaker 1: so big. Yeah. Yeah, that's when um Andrew and I

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Speaker 1: witnessed a little bit of a kerfuffle break out between

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Speaker 1: two of the auctioners. Yeah, maybe some insults thrown, Yeah

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Speaker 1: would make that purchase. Yeah, No, there was definite shade.

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Speaker 1: But I guess like voice shange, So I saw the fish, beautiful, big,

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Speaker 1: kind of glittery looking fish, and I thought, I want

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Speaker 1: to eat that, and I did that. I ate that,

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Speaker 1: and it was one of your favorite. Um. It was

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Speaker 1: a really cool experience. Like I remember when it was

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Speaker 1: eventually okay, we've seen we should go, and I was

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Speaker 1: kind of like, I know, but I want to see

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Speaker 1: how this it is going to go down on the

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Speaker 1: my mine. Yeah, it just happened so quick. It did

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Speaker 1: it did I It was a very well oiled machine, um,

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Speaker 1: and I mean, I guess it has to be because

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Speaker 1: they put through how many thousands of pounds of fish,

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Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of pounds of fish a day, A

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Speaker 1: lot and a lot of it. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: a lot is correct, but a good chunk of it

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Speaker 1: does get eaten like that day. Yeah, which is amazing. Hello,

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Speaker 1: I'm welcome to say your protection of iHeart radio and

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Speaker 1: stuff media. I'm Annies and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the fishing industry, particularly in Hawaii. And

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Speaker 1: we wanted to do this episode because while we were

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Speaker 1: in Oahu, we were so lucky to sit down with

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Speaker 1: one Brooks Takanaka, the assistant general manager of the United

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Speaker 1: Fishing Agency, and to attend very early one morning the

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Speaker 1: Honolulu Fish Auction, a very late night after very late night. Um,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, that's what we were talking about in that

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Speaker 1: clip at the top, which we recorded. When we got

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Speaker 1: back to the studio with super producers Dylan and Andrew

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Speaker 1: and Brooks gave us this beautiful posters of the wild

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Speaker 1: fish in Hawaii. And I'll mid damned if we didn't

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Speaker 1: get that poster back to Atlanta through all kinds of

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Speaker 1: travel Shannigan's oh yeah, tiny little little little planes to Maui,

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Speaker 1: all kinds of weird like and it's a large poster.

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Speaker 1: It's large and gorgeous and he brought it into the

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Speaker 1: studio with us today. It made it Brooks, if you're

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Speaker 1: listening we got that poster back. We love it and

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Speaker 1: thank you. Yes, I want to ask, Um, did you

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Speaker 1: fish at all growing up? Lord? Precisely once? I think.

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Speaker 1: I have a very fond memory of going out with

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Speaker 1: my Papa Marvin in Florida when I was maybe about

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Speaker 1: five years old, and we caught these three silvery little fishes,

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Speaker 1: and Uh, I was just enchanted with the whole process,

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Speaker 1: like it was a side of the ocean that I

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Speaker 1: had never seen before. How about you. I've fished quite

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Speaker 1: a bit growing up in Gulf Shores, Alabama, but not there,

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Speaker 1: but near there, Um, and I usually caught pinfish okay,

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Speaker 1: which are kind of difficult to get off your hook

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Speaker 1: without getting a pin right to the hands. And there

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Speaker 1: was this big bird I call Edgar, and he would

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Speaker 1: always try to steal my fish, and he knocked me

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Speaker 1: right into the water. One dme, Oh my gosh, Edgar. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I every time I go back there, I see

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Speaker 1: a similar bird, and I always call him Edgar, even

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Speaker 1: though I'm sure it's a different bird at this at

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Speaker 1: this juncture, it's likely, yes, but any bird that looks

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Speaker 1: like that is Edgar. He was like my nemesis for

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Speaker 1: a while because he would like he would be outside

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Speaker 1: my window at night. Fish. Gosh, did it have any fish?

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Speaker 1: Have you seen the lighthouse yet? I feel like what

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Speaker 1: I've heard I've heard that I should see it tightly related. Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a quote with the seabird in there. Yeah, seabirds

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Speaker 1: play a role. It happened in this movie. I have

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Speaker 1: earned so many things, no clue. Um. One time I

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Speaker 1: did catch a a flounder. A flounder, yes, and I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited about it that I pulled up too enthusiastically

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Speaker 1: and it slid right off. And now no one in

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Speaker 1: my family believes I caught it, but I did. I

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Speaker 1: believe you, Annie, Thank you for your well. So this

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Speaker 1: whole episode was for just so I could get some vindication.

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Speaker 1: I did catch it, and I called him dr evil Um. Fishing,

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Speaker 1: like fishing and eating seafood was pretty big in my family.

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Speaker 1: So my grandfather had a shrimp boat and that was

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Speaker 1: wonderful cool cooking up fresh shrimp. Amazing. I've been deep

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Speaker 1: sea fishing. I was terrible at it. My relatives are good, though,

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Speaker 1: you know, have the pictures of them with the sword fish.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's it looks like a sword fish. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think it is. But okay, all of

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Speaker 1: this brings us to our question. Yes, the fishing industry,

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Speaker 1: well what is it? Well, uh massive, yes, yeah, the

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Speaker 1: fishing industry is the system by which various aquatic animals

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Speaker 1: go from living in their aquatic environment to winding up

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Speaker 1: on your plate. And that makes it sound kind of simple,

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Speaker 1: and it's not because within that, um, if you're talking

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Speaker 1: about wild caught fish anyway, all right, so you've got

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Speaker 1: fisher humans actually catching the fish, researchers helping them do

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Speaker 1: that with all kinds of data and technology. Then wholesalers

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Speaker 1: who buy the fish or people who work for restaurants

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Speaker 1: or grocers often auctioneers, who facilitate that. Then regulators and

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Speaker 1: more researchers who work with all of those people to

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Speaker 1: help make sure that the fish is safe to eat

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Speaker 1: and that there will be more fish to catch later on.

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Speaker 1: And then marketing teams and educators who work with all

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Speaker 1: those people so that consumers will want to cook and

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Speaker 1: eat the fish. And then more researchers and packagers who

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Speaker 1: figure out how to transport this fresh product and then

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Speaker 1: actually do that thing. Um, And finally chefs and home

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Speaker 1: cooks who purchased and prepare the fish and then your plate, right, yes,

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Speaker 1: I mean and the plate gosh, like when you get

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Speaker 1: down to it, it was made by a whole other

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Speaker 1: industry of humans. And that's a different episode. Um, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's the kind of thing that I just hadn't ever

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Speaker 1: really thought about before. Um when I've you know, been

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Speaker 1: in a grocery store going like, oh man, the tuna

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Speaker 1: looks good today, or like in a restaurant being like, heck, yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm ordering the scallops. Yeah, I a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember what the impetus was, but I became

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Speaker 1: much more aware of, um, you know, looking at the

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Speaker 1: where something comes from. And then that really impacted how

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Speaker 1: much fish I bought or didn't because I love seafood.

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Speaker 1: I love eating Oh yeah, yeah, me too, it's my

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Speaker 1: favorite basically, Yeah, me too. And it took a big

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Speaker 1: hit after that. And I was really spoiled growing up

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Speaker 1: because we would catch fish and we would put it

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Speaker 1: in this big drum thing, get two scales off, and

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Speaker 1: then we would cook it that night and it was

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Speaker 1: so good, yeah, so amazing. And getting a taste of

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Speaker 1: that again, of that freshness in Hawaii was erful and

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Speaker 1: also sad because you know you're going to be away

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Speaker 1: from it. But yeah, just being there's so much that

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Speaker 1: goes into getting that to your plate, and I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of us are unaware of much of that process.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but it is. It is a very huge

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Speaker 1: industry because fish make up about seventeen of the world's

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Speaker 1: animal protein intake. The United States is the world's third

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Speaker 1: largest consumer of fish, at about four point five billion

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Speaker 1: pounds in twelve I'm not translating that to kilos. It's

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Speaker 1: a lot guys um. From eleven the average Americans clerk

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Speaker 1: intake from fish went up by and globally it's more

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Speaker 1: than doubled. In that same amount of time. In US,

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Speaker 1: commercial and recreational fishing drummed up two eight billion dollars

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Speaker 1: in sales, adding a whopping seven billion dollars to American

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Speaker 1: g d P. Yeah, this equates to about one point

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Speaker 1: six million full and part time jobs supporting the industry.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, over the past few years, the

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Speaker 1: race of domestic over fish stocks have decreased in the

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Speaker 1: United States, reaching some of the lowest levels. Yes, saw

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Speaker 1: four stocks build up to the point they where they

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Speaker 1: could be removed from the overfish list, while six others

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Speaker 1: were added to the list. Yeah. However, the United States

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Speaker 1: Food and Agricultural Organization estimates that globally around fisheries are

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Speaker 1: either fully exploited or on the verge of collapse. Hoof

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Speaker 1: yeah um. China, India, Peru, Indonesia, and the US lead

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Speaker 1: the way when it comes to fish production. China exports

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Speaker 1: a yearly two point six billion dollars worth of fish um.

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Speaker 1: The US follows in second with an annual two point

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Speaker 1: one billion dollars in exports. When it comes to recreational fishing,

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Speaker 1: ESTMATES suggests that around fifty five million non commercial fishers

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Speaker 1: contribute to the fishing industry in somewhere or another. Somewhere,

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Speaker 1: around ten to twelve of the world's population participates in

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Speaker 1: this industry. Yeah huh um. Talking about Hawaii specifically, um,

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Speaker 1: their fishing industry generated nine million dollars in sales as

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Speaker 1: of and as of two thousand nine, Honolulu specifically ranked

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Speaker 1: thirty first in the nation for fish landings by volume

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Speaker 1: twenty two million pounds, but eight in the nation in

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Speaker 1: terms of landed value fifty nine million dollars UM and

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Speaker 1: they're such a major player basically because tuna. Right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But another interesting number for you. While the mainland United

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Speaker 1: States imports of their seafood, Hawaii only imports, making the

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Speaker 1: state much more self sufficient in that regard. Here's bricks.

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Speaker 1: So what's interesting for us. We go catch the fish,

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Speaker 1: come back and and pretty fairly man. I mean we

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Speaker 1: we consume most of the fish here, but I'd say

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Speaker 1: at any given time, maybe thirty might find this way out,

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Speaker 1: depending on what the situation is. Like. A lot of

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Speaker 1: the sword fish still gets sold in the main land,

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Speaker 1: but the appreciation of sword fish here is growing significantly.

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Speaker 1: So there isn't any underutilized species on my floor anymore.

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Speaker 1: Everything's got an appreciation for it. Yeah. Well, that can

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Speaker 1: create some problems too, you know. You know the story

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Speaker 1: about Paul prud Almond and the red fish. He created

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Speaker 1: such a demand for it that they had a problem

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Speaker 1: because they have to control the harvest. They're re drawn

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Speaker 1: because they're over fishing in so causing effect again human

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Speaker 1: human element. Funny how aways always come back to Dada anyway.

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Speaker 1: Fish are a natural product, um, and of course you

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Speaker 1: can farm fish as actually just over half of the

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Speaker 1: fish that we humans were eating was farm raised. But

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Speaker 1: but modern aquaculture is sort of another episode, Like, well,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna glance through it, especially in our history section today.

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Speaker 1: Um but yeah, it's just a whole other, huge set

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Speaker 1: of issues than wild caught fishing. Um but yeah, um

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Speaker 1: fish or wild animals, and they're just out there doing

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Speaker 1: their thing. They're a natural product. And I know that

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Speaker 1: it sounds uh when I say it like that, but

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Speaker 1: like as with so many other foods, I really think

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Speaker 1: it's important to emphasize here because it's so easy to

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Speaker 1: forget when you're presented with these just sparkling plastic packages

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Speaker 1: of it and that's your only experience with it. Right

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Speaker 1: Going to that fish auction was a viscerally different experience.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, a lot of Hawaiian fish move through the

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Speaker 1: United Fishing Agencies. Honolulu Fish Auction on Pere thirty eight

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Speaker 1: of the commercial fishing Village. Overall, why He's fishing industry

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Speaker 1: took in twenty seven million pounds of fish, and about

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Speaker 1: eight three of it went through the Honolulu fish option. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So in the history of this this company which is

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Speaker 1: incorporated in it, really the founding father, I think had

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Speaker 1: an incredible idea and that was to try to bring

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Speaker 1: together the daily supply of fish and seafood to facilities

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Speaker 1: that will allow prevyors to come and buy. So the

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Speaker 1: company itself, in in terms of its philosophy, basically facilitated

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Speaker 1: the organizing of the market of seafood here in Hawaii.

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Speaker 1: And so in the beginning they the company did a

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Speaker 1: whole range of officiency food from near shore to the

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Speaker 1: open ocean and then the deep sea open ocean as

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Speaker 1: well at the bottom fish. Right, so you've got open

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Speaker 1: ocean and pelagic species, benthy pelagic which is the deep

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Speaker 1: sea bottom fish species which is your snappers and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that, all by special fishing and all, and then

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Speaker 1: near shore which is now a number of different kinds

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Speaker 1: of methods of harvesting. But also at the same time,

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Speaker 1: when I started in nine coming from a federal program

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Speaker 1: in fisheries and aquaculture, uh, there are but seventeen longline

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Speaker 1: vessels in the fleet at that time, and now today

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Speaker 1: we have over a hundred and forty. Okay, So what's

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Speaker 1: happened in time is that within this forty years this

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Speaker 1: fleet has grown significantly, the industries basically become what it

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Speaker 1: is today. And so what did it take to do that?

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Speaker 1: First of all, when I came into the industry, I

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Speaker 1: was working Prior to that, I worked for the Sea

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Speaker 1: Grant Program, and one of the tasks we had was

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Speaker 1: to promote fisheries in America because it was at a law,

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Speaker 1: also promote underutilized species, okay, because there wasn't very much

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Speaker 1: appreciation for seafood. But what happened was that there were

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Speaker 1: companies that were trying to They were interested in our fish,

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Speaker 1: and so when I came on board, I realized that

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Speaker 1: they had no idea what we're talking about. We use

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Speaker 1: local terms. They didn't know what is an ahi, what

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Speaker 1: is a mai mai? What is an alga? Listen that

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Speaker 1: and the other. But they realized that quality was really good.

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Speaker 1: So what's happened on SOO is that not only are

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Speaker 1: we talked the world about these different species and they're

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Speaker 1: using our today to sell their fish. Not today is

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Speaker 1: ahi and um. They also began to realize that the

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Speaker 1: freshness and quality of the fish coming out of here

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Speaker 1: was significant. This is the only fresh tuna auction in

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Speaker 1: the United States and the only fish auction between Tokyo

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Speaker 1: and Maine of its kind. Beginning at one am, six

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Speaker 1: days a week. Fishermen and women unload their catch into

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Speaker 1: this huge chilled warehouse and after inspection, wholesalers, retailers and

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Speaker 1: restaurant representatives bid on these fish. Once this brass bell

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Speaker 1: is rung at five thirty in the morning. This creates

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Speaker 1: a system in which higher quality fish fetch a higher

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Speaker 1: price and fair prices. And again we're talking about a

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Speaker 1: lot of fish here. Yeah, So the fish gets on

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Speaker 1: the boat, they come back and they called into an

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Speaker 1: answering service and the answering service. My guys come in

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Speaker 1: at twelve thirty, call the answering service. Who's on first,

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Speaker 1: what's on second, whatever, and there we go. Send the

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Speaker 1: carts off, pick up the fish, bring them back, process

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Speaker 1: them and there we go. So they come in ozone

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Speaker 1: treated water to kill the bacteria, wade process set up

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Speaker 1: for auction, ozone treatment again ice even with the facility

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Speaker 1: I chilled to forty five degrees and there we go.

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Speaker 1: Line it up. Big it tuna is big, the small,

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Speaker 1: yellow fin tuna is big, the small and there we go.

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Speaker 1: So where these fish are being caught North Southeastern Wastes

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Speaker 1: makes a difference as well. Time of the year. It

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Speaker 1: makes a difference as well, and so forth and so on.

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Speaker 1: So that's just more complex realities of that. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: they dropped their fish, they clean up, provision up, ice up.

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Speaker 1: Within a matter of two three days, they're back out there.

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Speaker 1: Swordfish guys are on about a month month and a half.

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Speaker 1: They'll come in with maybe and then depending on how

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Speaker 1: much they come in, we will determine how much we

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Speaker 1: do want to give in, and then it's a matter

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Speaker 1: of all securing airline reservations as well as containers, and

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Speaker 1: then we actually conduct a swordfish auction after the main auction.

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Speaker 1: Then whoever you're gonna buy and buys off of that,

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Speaker 1: and we pack it all up because the airlines wants

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Speaker 1: us to pack it because all my due diligence. While

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Speaker 1: we were at this auction, we recorded some audio, of course,

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Speaker 1: including our reactions and first impressions wants at the scene.

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Speaker 1: So here we are early in the morning at a

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Speaker 1: fish auction. We're in a warehouse of I suits down

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Speaker 1: huge fish, like really huge, I think almost my um

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Speaker 1: in some cases, and people are auctioning, they're bidding on

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Speaker 1: these fish. It's very lively and very fast. Yeah, it's cold. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's complete chaos in here. I feel like everywhere that

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Speaker 1: I'm standing is the wrong place to stand. I feel

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Speaker 1: eminently in danger of falling over into millions of dollars

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Speaker 1: worth of fish. Um, it's not as cold as I expected,

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Speaker 1: so that's nice. Maybe I'm just really nervous. But uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of fish. I don't think I understood

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Speaker 1: how big these fish are. I'm used to like the

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Speaker 1: aquariums and pet smart and uh, there was one over

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Speaker 1: there that weighs over three pounds. And I have no

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Speaker 1: idea what's going on the scale and the mechanics of it.

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Speaker 1: It's like a it's like a very beautiful dance of

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Speaker 1: dead fish. It's about like a ballet fish fish, a

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Speaker 1: dead fish ballet. But okay, so this this industry, this

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Speaker 1: well oiled machine or dead fish ballet or whatever you

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Speaker 1: want to call it. Um, it didn't just pop up

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Speaker 1: out of nowhere. Of course. It's hundreds of thousands of

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Speaker 1: years in the making. And we will get into that

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Speaker 1: history after we get back from a quick break for

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Speaker 1: word our sponsors and we're back. Thank you sponsoring, Yes,

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Speaker 1: thank you. So history kind of briefly, oh yeah, very briefly.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, because fishing is one of humanity's oldest industries. Yep,

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Speaker 1: teach Amanda fish and all that. Catching and eating fish

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Speaker 1: was first and foremost a means of survival as opposed

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Speaker 1: to something done for profit for a long time. I

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Speaker 1: mean yeah, because it dates back to before profit. It

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Speaker 1: was a concept. Yeah, and depending on where you were,

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Speaker 1: eating fish was either a last resort or a first resort.

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Speaker 1: Some people really dug it, some people really didn't. While

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Speaker 1: our early ancestors most likely fished up to five fifty

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Speaker 1: thousand years ago, fishing didn't really develop as we know

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Speaker 1: it until somewhere between forty thousand and ten thousand BC.

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Speaker 1: Oh so recently, so I remember it like it was yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Evidence uncovered at a cave in South Africa dates shellfish

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Speaker 1: consumption to at least one forty thousand years ago, and

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Speaker 1: some of the earliest evidence of hook fishing was found

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Speaker 1: in Southeast Asia about sixteen thousand years ago. Okay, perhaps

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Speaker 1: obviously a lot of early fishing and even modern fishing

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Speaker 1: took place in areas with access to bodies of water.

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Speaker 1: Makes sense, That makes perfect sense. At first people seem

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Speaker 1: to have done a lot of fishing just with their hands. Nets, lines, spears,

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Speaker 1: and rods used for fishing first appear in our historical

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Speaker 1: records around three thousand, five hundred BC in ancient Egypt.

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Speaker 1: Of note, historians believe that in some places people started

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Speaker 1: noticing declining populations of fish around coral reefs and bays

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Speaker 1: and other close to shore waters, basically places they could see.

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Speaker 1: As a result, some ancient civilizations established fishing grounds the

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Speaker 1: only places someone could legally go to catch fish. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Around the same time three thousand or so UM, the

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Speaker 1: ancient Chinese gave us one of the first examples of

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Speaker 1: fish farming, with a carpet that were bred in ponds um.

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Speaker 1: Ancient Egyptians developed something similar. The first known treatise on

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Speaker 1: sea fishing was written during ancient Greek and Roman times

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Speaker 1: by the poet Opian. The Romans were big consumers and

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Speaker 1: traders of fish, which they primarily caught through the use

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Speaker 1: of nets. They also like to showcase their most prized

359
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 1: fish at over the top banquets. That doesn't sound like

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Speaker 1: the ancient room No sounds silly, however, Actually eating fish,

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Speaker 1: especially certain types of fish, was often associated with the

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Speaker 1: poor or soldiers, as their rations included a lot of fish.

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Speaker 1: No refrigeration meant that a lot of fish was permanent

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Speaker 1: for later or perhaps made into the popular condiment Garum

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00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 1: cr ketchup episode for more on that one. Plenty and

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Speaker 1: Homer also wrote about fishing. According to Plenty, some fishermen

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Speaker 1: would take nets and spears, venture out into the water

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Speaker 1: and wait for dolphins to drive schools of fish into

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Speaker 1: their nets. That's great, And then it gets better. The

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Speaker 1: dolphins would be rewarded with bread dipped in wine. What

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Speaker 1: a life hang out with some dolphins, catch some fish,

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Speaker 1: get the dolphins drunk. Love it. Yeah, that sounds like

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Speaker 1: a regular Tuesday to me. Hunters in New Guinea also

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Speaker 1: used a kind of spectacular method. Um. They would build

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Speaker 1: these wooden frames and then leave them somewhere where they

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Speaker 1: knew that like spiders hung out, and then the spiders

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Speaker 1: would spin a net over the frame. Spider silk is

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Speaker 1: very strong. Uh and yeah, it looks amazing. It does

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Speaker 1: um illustrations. Yeah. Also in Japan, the practice of fishing

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Speaker 1: using trained birds, as specifically cormorants was documented about one

381
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Speaker 1: thousand seven years ago. Yes, and I read that, so

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Speaker 1: it's still practiced in some area. So I would love

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Speaker 1: to hear from listeners. Yes, that's true, that's delightful. Yes, gosh,

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Speaker 1: there's a whole world out there. During Europe's feudal system

385
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Speaker 1: of the Middle Ages, lords owned lakes and rivers that

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Speaker 1: made fishing tightly regulated. Religious communities that practice periods of

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Speaker 1: fasting or meatless days where some of the few allowed

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Speaker 1: to fish. At one point in time, over half the

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Speaker 1: days of the calendar year were meatless for practicing Christians,

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Speaker 1: which really helped increase the popularity of fish. Yes, oh,

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Speaker 1: I want to do an episode on that now, okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, anyway, um. Interesting note here. As farming techniques

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Speaker 1: and water management technology advanced around the tenth and eleventh century,

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Speaker 1: archaeologists contract changes in fishing in places like like England,

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Speaker 1: where people kind of suddenly around that time switched from

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Speaker 1: eating freshwater fish to eating saltwater fish. Like the archaeologists

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00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 1: think that the pollution from farms and environmental changes due

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Speaker 1: to dams being created caused freshwater fish populations to collapse

399
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Speaker 1: and necessitated a move to saltwater fish. Ancient Hawaiians practiced

400
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Speaker 1: an advanced technique of fish farming by the thirteenth century CE,

401
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 1: and they did this by creating seawater ponds that fish

402
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: could access through a series of grates and canals. Young

403
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: fish could get in, but as they grew and got bigger,

404
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 1: they could not get out. Tricksy. Yeah, I know. Almost

405
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: every Native Hawaiian at the time participated in fishing. Over

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Speaker 1: Fishing wasn't a problem, though, there was a sense of

407
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Speaker 1: stewardship and responsibility to natural resources enforced by community and

408
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Speaker 1: religious leaders. Um. Although deep sea fishing existed as early

409
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: as the fifteenth century, UH, it didn't really get started

410
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 1: in in seriousness until like the nineteenth century because that's

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Speaker 1: when steamboats elevated and popularized it because it was much

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Speaker 1: less of a butt pain at that point um uh

413
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Speaker 1: and more profitable UM with a massive trawlers pulling nets.

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Speaker 1: Trawlers would later be used to sweep for minds during

415
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Speaker 1: World War one and two. Perhaps the first instance or

416
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: recorded instance of modern fish farming took place in Germany

417
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Speaker 1: in the mid seventeen hundreds, when a German farmer successfully

418
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 1: fertilized river trout on his land. Native Americans who lived

419
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: near water, of course, engaged in fishing um, a wave

420
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: life that was threatened when boats from Europe began to arrive.

421
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: North America's first large ish fishing communities formed in the

422
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Speaker 1: eighteenth century, for the most part around the New England area. However,

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Speaker 1: um one of the first established fishing communities was in

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Speaker 1: what's now Washington State, founded by explorer James Bernie. Through

425
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: a salting and packing fish in part traded from Native Americans,

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00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: the industry took off by eighteen sixty one. People started

427
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: to stock ponds and open bodies of water with fish,

428
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: feed them and harvest them. And yeah that The industry

429
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 1: only grew as more immigrants came from Europe, bringing with

430
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: them they're fishing. No. How forty three distinct fisheries were

431
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: up and running across the country by eighteen eighty, employing

432
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: a hundred and thirty thousand people. Commercial fishing at this

433
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 1: time could be dangerous. Oh yeah, an anonymous reporter wrote

434
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy six, the history of the Gloucester Fisheries

435
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: has been written in tiers. Almost two thousand, five hundred

436
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: fishermen from Glaster, which is in Massachusetts, by the way,

437
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: never returned home in the years from eighteen sixty six

438
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: to eighteen ninety. This led the community to come together

439
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 1: to create the Gloucester Fisherman's and Seamen's Widows and Orphans

440
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 1: Aid Society Fund in eighteen sixty five, When will the

441
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: slaughter cease? Captain Joseph Collins wrote in The Cape and

442
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: Weekly Advertiser in eight eight two. Technological improvements when it

443
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 1: came to ship design and fishing equipment did help improve

444
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 1: the situation in the following decades in various ways. Safety, overall, hall, processing, packaging.

445
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: A lot of cannaries were opening at this time, which

446
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: you can see some past episodes for that. UM storing

447
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 1: and shipping those kinds of things. Yeah. Um. And several

448
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: of the fisheries that thrived during this period, Atlantic co

449
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: Chesapeake oysters, Columbia River salmon, and the whaling industry would

450
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: go on to be in crisis later due to over fishing. UM.

451
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: Whaling was such a huge industry in America from the

452
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: late seventeen hundreds to the mid eighteen hundreds UM, by

453
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: which time the whale population was decimated in the Atlantic. Um.

454
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: All parts of the whale were used, um, but they

455
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: were primarily sought after for their blubber, which was made

456
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: into oil which fed the whole gas light thing. Yeah. UM.

457
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: So many specialized tools were developed for processing whales, and

458
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: whaleboats were sometimes towed for miles by an angry whale.

459
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: These were called Nantucket sleigh ride since the industry and

460
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: the states originated in Nintucket. Um oh, future episode Moby

461
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: Dick reading. I yeah, yeah, we were talking about that

462
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: before this started, and uh, I kind of I forgot

463
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: that was a real thing. It just seems like a

464
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: dark Victorian era fantasy. It seems like Moby Dick is

465
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: a horror novel and it couldn't have possibly really happened,

466
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: but it did. And there's this wonderful if you're interested,

467
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: the Smithsonian has It was a past exhibit that they

468
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: did about basically all humanity and water, but there's a

469
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: specific section on fishing and past industries of fishing, and

470
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: they have a whaling whole thing about whaling. And I

471
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: went on a very deep, dark rabbit hole. But I

472
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: did find some wonderful sea shanties, which I hope we

473
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: get to use one day. Oh Man, sea shanties. That's great,

474
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: al right, Okay Anyway. In eighteen seventy one, the US

475
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: is First Fisheries Laboratory was established by the U S

476
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: Fish Commission, and which was itself established earlier that year,

477
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: making it the first federal agencies set up around a

478
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: natural resource. President Teddy Roosevelt signed a law for the

479
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: construction of a second Federal Fisheries laboratory in nineteen hundred.

480
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: By the way, our coworkers a total aside, Our coworkers

481
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: just put out an awesome new podcast called History versus Um.

482
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: Every season they're tackling a different historical figure. And I

483
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: bring it up because the first season it's about Theodore

484
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: Roosevelt and it's awesome because that dude got up to

485
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: sub stuff. Gosh. Um. It's also it's hosted by one

486
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: of our friends over at Mental Floss, Aaron McCarthy. Um. Yeah,

487
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: if you dig history stuff, you should definitely check it out. Anyway,

488
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: let's say Japanese immigrants introduced longline fishing to Hawaii in

489
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: nineteen seventeen. At the time called flagline fishing, this method

490
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: involved a section of a long mainline segmented with sections

491
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: of tarred rope that was then horizontally suspended in water

492
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: with floats complete with flags flag I'm fishing. Attached to

493
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: the ropes were numerous leaders and baited hooks. There were

494
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: four do two of these flag line ships in Holloylu

495
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: After World War Two, and after a dip in the

496
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: seventies and eighties, that number reached one hundred and sixty

497
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: four vessels. And as boat building technology and materials improved,

498
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: one of these improvements was in the line itself, which

499
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: was updated to a mono filament mainline and hydraulically powered reels.

500
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: After World War Two, regulations limiting the freedoms of Japanese

501
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: immigrants involved in fishing helped along the incorporation of spam

502
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: into Hawaiian cuisine, and you can see our spam episode

503
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: for more on that. Yeah hoof um okay. So, as

504
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: technology advanced, and thanks to the increasing popularity of tuna,

505
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: hand line fishing, which is this method of deep sea

506
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: fishing that goes back to ancient Hawaiians, um became commercially

507
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: important in Hawaii in the nineteen seventies and it's really

508
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: environmentally valuable because it lets you catch specifically the fish

509
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: you want without by catch, because what you're doing is

510
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: dropping a vertical line down into the water, catching a

511
00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: single fish on that line, and pulling it up, either

512
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: either manually or or mechanically. These days it's more likely right.

513
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, or NOAH, was set

514
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: up in nineteen seventy. In nineteen seventy six, the US

515
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: government enacted the Magnus and Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management

516
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: Act to provide oversight for fisheries in American federal waters.

517
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: One of the biggest impacts that this had was doing

518
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: away with foreign fishing in US territory. The Act was

519
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: amended in nine with added stipulations around over fishing, preventing bycatch,

520
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: and protecting the habitats of fish. It was reauthorized in

521
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: two thousand and six more regulations. The The U n

522
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: Food and Agriculture Organization f a O introduced the Code

523
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: of Conduct for Responsible Fisheries in It's a voluntary international

524
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: agreement UM, but it offers tools to measure and evaluate

525
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: fisheries so that they can develop or or maintain sustainable operations.

526
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: Due to a combination of stagnated catch rates and increasing demand,

527
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: aquaculture has assistantly grown by about eight percent every year

528
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: since the nineteen seventies, and yeah aquaculture and farm fish

529
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: output for human consumption surpassed wild fish capture for the

530
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: first time. Asia and especially China accounts for a lot

531
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: of this and that that is our history section. It

532
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: was it's a whirlwind. Um, but okay um. Through through

533
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: all of this, we've touched on a number of issues

534
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: and and regulations and let's explore some more of those

535
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: in depth. But first, let's take one more quick break

536
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank

537
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: you sponsoring, Yes, thank you, so Yes. Let us talk

538
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,959
Speaker 1: about sustainability. Yeah, and one of the key aspects of

539
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: that is climate change. Ye ye. Climate change is already

540
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: impacting the fishing industry and will continue to do so

541
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: in the coming decades, as fish populations migrate into cooler

542
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: waters up to one thousand kilometers north in the case

543
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,879
Speaker 1: of North America's fish stocks, while other stocks will see

544
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: their ranges cut in half. The impact of these shifts

545
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: will ripple out to economic and political agreements. Already, fishing

546
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: boats frequently have to make longer journeys than they once

547
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: did to find fish, increasing the cost they incur. In

548
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: some cases, processing centers have been forced to relocate, resulting

549
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 1: in lost jobs. In other cases, valuable stocks of fish

550
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: have migrated from one country's waters into another's causing heated

551
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,479
Speaker 1: political debate in some instances conflict, and we have seen

552
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: that throughout history as well. You can see our oyster episode,

553
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: our Hattic episode, and or our cod episode for historical

554
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: examples of skirmishes around seafood access. In recent history, we've

555
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: also seen environmental disasters like oil spills massively impact our

556
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: fish industry, and the full impact of these disasters is

557
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 1: still unknown. Yeah. So so, I mean, it's already a

558
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: whole difficult science to try to figure out how to

559
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: take care of these populations of fish so that we

560
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: will have them for the future, but this is certainly

561
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: making it more complicated. UM and UH in A big

562
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: part of that. In another kind of kind of key

563
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: word that you might have heard in discussions about this

564
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: is over fishing UM, which is pretty much like like

565
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: what it sounds like, UM, it's catching too many fish

566
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: over time, depleting the population. To combat this, UM, fishery

567
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: managers and government entities calculate what's called the maximum sustainable

568
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: yields or ms WISE, and that dictates the number of

569
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: fish that can be caught UM that will then replenish

570
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: two levels that year over year consistently to meet the

571
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: m s y UM exceed that number, you're over fishing.

572
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: There are fish population models that are one way that

573
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 1: scientists and researchers determine the m S Y and whether

574
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: or not a fishery is sustainable, and these models also

575
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: help in identifying depleted stocks so that experts can make

576
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: recommendations on how to build those stocks back up again.

577
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: Quota systems are one way of enforcing those guidelines, or

578
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,919
Speaker 1: by kind of more expensively placing observers on ships. Catch

579
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: limits aren't perfect, though, and in some cases have resulted

580
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 1: in economic hardship or or just unpredictability of volatility and markets. Absolutely.

581
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: Another aspect of this is something that's called I you

582
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: you in the industry, illegal, unreported, or unregulated fishing. Estimates

583
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: suggest that I you cost legal fishermen and fishing communities

584
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: upwards of twenty three billion dollars. Yeah yeah, noah. The U. S.

585
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: Department of State and the U. S. Coast Guard combat

586
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: this in multiple ways, primarily three restrictions around port, injury

587
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 1: and access, but federal regulations around fishing, when implemented from

588
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: AFAR and UM without those directly involved in the fishing

589
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: industry at the table, have led to some major headaches

590
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: and unintended consequences. When government does not do things as

591
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: responsibly as it could in a timely manner, as it should,

592
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: then what happens is it adversity affects industries like ours.

593
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: So I simply put how many how many industries were

594
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: adversely affected when the government shut down? Here we go?

595
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: Can you see? So now in our case, a simple

596
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: biological opinion that was not completed on time became the

597
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: problem for our fleet soul there we have lost our

598
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 1: sword fishing fishing for the season for this year. That's

599
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: millions of dollars. Thank you very much, because, as I say,

600
00:37:54,080 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: it happens. So um, I can't do too at your

601
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 1: body but complain. I just hope that government who we pay, oh,

602
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 1: get its act together and be more responsible next year.

603
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. So part of the difficulties video, well,

604
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: you know, we have, as I said, we have a

605
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: lot of government people that come through all the time. Okay,

606
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: so here you are. They're back in Washington, d C.

607
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: They're putting together all these rules and regulations blah blah blah.

608
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 1: They have no idea what the damn thing looks like.

609
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: So now they come here and they see it, they

610
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,320
Speaker 1: hear the experience, and it's like wow, a totally different experience.

611
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: So what you intended to be good actually made it

612
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: more difficult for us. And so here we go. So

613
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 1: you keep painting ourselves into a corner. America's approaches regulate

614
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: the same thing here, regulate, But how often do you

615
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: work with the people that you're trying to regulate. So

616
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 1: now you have a polarized situation as opposed to people

617
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: working together to come up with the best solution. Part

618
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 1: of what we deal with. Government agencies aren't the only

619
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: ones at fault here, No, certainly not. No. Uninformed consumers

620
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: are too, yeah, and often the task of educating the

621
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: consumer falls to those in the fishing industry and restaurateurs.

622
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: Restaurant owner and chef Alan Wong gave an example. The

623
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 1: story I want to say is that a few years ago,

624
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: the they put a band on all the bottom fish,

625
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: which were the the most prized fishes, like the omaga

626
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: would be the deep sea red snapper, the opacapaca would

627
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: be the pig snapper, and they're down below past three

628
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: feet deep, and so they were being overfished. A common

629
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: thing around the broke and so they put it. Originally

630
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,720
Speaker 1: a three month ban on that fish, those seven fishes,

631
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: including the sea bass. It eventually went to six months.

632
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: But a couple of things happened during that time. When

633
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: you could not get the Hawaiian onnaga Hawaiian opacacaca um,

634
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: you have to look for an alternative source. And so

635
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: farm raised moi, farm raised campacchi, and farm raised talapia.

636
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 1: So they eat telapia. Spot fish is made. But that

637
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: that's one fish in Hawaii that has this bad stigma. Okay.

638
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: Right behind Waikiki is all a white canal. And so

639
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: when you ask somebody today, have you even eating talapia? Okay?

640
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 1: They said no. Then I said, how do you know

641
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 1: you don't like it? They say, because my parents told me.

642
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: Then I asked the parents, have you eaten talapia? They

643
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: said no, How do you know that because my grandparents

644
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: took to We know because all tilapia comes from the

645
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: olivey and it's dirty water and it's polluted and it

646
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 1: tastes like mud. Okay, So it has that stigma. But

647
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 1: the farm race talapia is actually excellent. So we have

648
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: a guy on the north shore. He grows salapia. I said,

649
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 1: you gotta grow between five and eight pounds to make

650
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: it worthwhile. So he grows it that big just for us,

651
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: and it's been an alternative source. So we we gave

652
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: birth to a couple of industries because of that, and

653
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: because of the band. We haven't had that band ever since.

654
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: So it worked. You know, one way to educate the

655
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: public is through marketing. It's like that beautiful poster Yes

656
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: gave us. The other side of that is the marketing

657
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: part of it, because as this was growing, I have

658
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: to develop a means of basically marketing these fish. We

659
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: were already doing that in terms of the information about that,

660
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: but then sustainability became a significant reality. Makes sense, right,

661
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: But what is the essence of sustainability. It's a matter

662
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: of trying to protect your resources. But at the same time,

663
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 1: you've got to feed people. And what's happening demographically population

664
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: continues to grow. Also, the world because much more aware

665
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: of the significance of seafood because of the health and

666
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 1: also because it begins to taste good because you have

667
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,400
Speaker 1: different presentations on it. You now have an appreciation with

668
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: sashimi which you've never had before. Look at the poke

669
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: bowl business today. Another issue we wanted to briefly mentioned

670
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 1: whole other episode is that this lack of education and

671
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: some unscrupulous practices and seafood supply chain has allowed for

672
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 1: UM seafood fraud throughout history and including today UM. And

673
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: this could be something like UM seafood substitution or passing

674
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 1: off a cheaper speed she's a fish for a more

675
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: expensive one short wing or UM mislabeling fish to skirt

676
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 1: regulations UM like like misrepresenting a products country of origin.

677
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: And Noah finds fraught of some kind of up to

678
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:16,240
Speaker 1: of the seafood that they examine every year. Yeah, definitely

679
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: future episode If I remember correctly, most of it is

680
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 1: in short wing. But uh yeah, yeah, that made some

681
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: news a couple of years ago. I remember, Oh yeah,

682
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: you've probably never really had this fish this fish. Yeah,

683
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: we'll come back to that one at a later date.

684
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 1: For now, we need to talk about something else that

685
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 1: we have touched on throughout this episode. By catch from

686
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 1: ninety sixteen and estimated six million metric tons of sharks

687
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,320
Speaker 1: for example, we're tossed out as by catch and Pacific Ocean,

688
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: and this is essentially not the fish you were going

689
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: for you caught it. You caught it, and it's dead now,

690
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 1: h yeah. Um, and sharks as apex predators are hugely

691
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,439
Speaker 1: important to the food chain, so this was a kind

692
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: of disturb being are troubling, right, Yeah, But new innovations

693
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: are being introduced all the time to limit by catch.

694
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 1: Brooks talked about one of these innovations when it comes

695
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: to fishing hooks and bait used, Okay, where's the barb inside? Okay,

696
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 1: if you want your south along your arm, I'm not

697
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 1: gonna hook you. It'll catch fish, all right by doing

698
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: this instead of your regular jay hook that you're used to,

699
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 1: all right. So also changing from squid which is resilient

700
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: to fish as bait facilitated that whole situation and mitigated

701
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 1: the interactions with turtles. Implementing these changes in Hawaii resulted

702
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 1: in a lower turtle by catch rate. UM. When it

703
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,399
Speaker 1: comes to shallows set sword fishing gear. Um. But it's

704
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: not just aquatic creatures either, UM. Seafaring birds can get

705
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 1: caught up in lines too, and if there's a bait

706
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: on the surface attached to a hook, bird goes for

707
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:00,439
Speaker 1: the bait gets caught. UM. Some of the two thousand

708
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: four regulations and subsequent changes in methods and technologies though

709
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: also led to a nine reduction and interactions with seabirds

710
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 1: in Hawaii. That's great. Yeah, something else we need to

711
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: remember in this conversation is human rights. And we're not

712
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: just talking about forced labor, which unfortunately is something that

713
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: takes place and that we should talk about in a

714
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: future episode as well. Yeah, working in the fishing industry

715
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 1: is demanding and often dangerous. We ran a quote from

716
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: Brooks about that back in our poke A episode. Um,

717
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: Like you know, the amount of time to these folks

718
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: are out for weeks on end, and the unpredictability of

719
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: the weather and just the manual labor at all entails. Um,

720
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 1: these folks are risking their lives to bring us these fish. Um.

721
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 1: And because it is their lives and their livelihood, they

722
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:49,720
Speaker 1: care deeply about sustainability in terms of both the fish

723
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 1: and the people. Um, here's bricks again. And because we

724
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: did what we did, it facilitated their sales because they

725
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: could sell things that are sustainably caught, are safe for consumption.

726
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: So all of that is transparent. It's all been part

727
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: of our program from way back. So coming into the

728
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: harbor when the boat lands, when we sell that fish,

729
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: who we sold it to has always been part of

730
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: the whole chain of transparency, and yeah, yeah, yeah, um.

731
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: I would imagine that that y'all care about it way

732
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: more intensely than most Well, you have to. You know. Again,

733
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: the thing is this in any business anyway, If if

734
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: you didn't take it from that perspective, then what justice

735
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 1: are you doing yourself and the people that you're trying

736
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: to service and everything and even your own people. Okay,

737
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: the pride with which we do things is important. That's

738
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: that's what carries over to the people that that that

739
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 1: are part of this because these people work hard. I

740
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: don't know too many people that can work the kind

741
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: of hours we do, or be dedicated like we are,

742
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: that are constantly thinking about the industry, about our program.

743
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:06,280
Speaker 1: And so I'm very fortunate to have people like that

744
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: that are committed, that are loyal and and we're looking

745
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 1: for others and and the same thing. To me, the

746
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: ideal situation is being able to work together with people

747
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: that you love, your trust, that are productive. You're a

748
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 1: great team. The synergy there, and man, we're going to

749
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:28,399
Speaker 1: do things same thing we're trying to do the same thing.

750
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: So it's a matter of developing a system and approach

751
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: that basically supports each other and again basically speaks to

752
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 1: the truth. And that's what we want to do. So

753
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: you think and drink all of these programs that have

754
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 1: developed as a result of Food and Wine, as a

755
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: result of denisis you know, thoughts and considerations, discussions with

756
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 1: people like dioke mode on the Farmer and that kind

757
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: of stuff myself and all um has led to the

758
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: development of these kinds of ideas and which is good

759
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: and that's is happening everywhere nowadays education outreach. People want

760
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 1: to know the Denise he was referring to there is

761
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 1: Denise Hayashi Yamaguchi of the Hawaii Food and Wine Festival UM,

762
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,720
Speaker 1: a representative of which Michelle mcgawan Brice we've been mentioning

763
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 1: every episode of this mini series because she and and

764
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 1: and they in general helped put us in touch with

765
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: a lot of these interviewees because they recognize how important

766
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 1: education is. If there's anything I took away from our

767
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 1: conversation with Brooks, it's that the industry is a lot

768
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 1: more complicated than we as consumers can really comprehend. But

769
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: but that it's important to try. As always, we are

770
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: big proponents of consumer education. The human element is something

771
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: we do have control over, at least on an individual level. Oh,

772
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,760
Speaker 1: so many future topics, So much homework. I read fifteen

773
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 1: books about fishing and they all had something to say. Oh,

774
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: but if you would have something to say, we would

775
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: love to hear from you. You can email us at

776
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: Hello at savor pod dot com. You can also find

777
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,399
Speaker 1: us on social media. We are on Instagram, Twitter, and

778
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: Facebook at savor Pod, and we do hope to hear

779
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: from you. Thanks so much to our superproducers Dylan Fagan

780
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 1: and Andrew Howard, our executive producer Christopher Hassiotas, and our

781
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:25,240
Speaker 1: interviewees Brooks Takanaka, you are a gem. You are also

782
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 1: Thank you to Michelle McGowan, Rice of the Hawaii Food

783
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 1: and Wine Festival, u Don Sakamoto Piva of Put It

784
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: on My Plate, Enjoy Gotzo, and Maria Hartfield of the

785
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,879
Speaker 1: Hawaii Visitors and Convention Bureau for putting us in touch

786
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: with all of those interviewees. Savor's a production of I

787
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Stuff Media. For more podcast from My

788
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, you can visit the i heart radio, app,

789
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

790
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots

791
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:53,479
Speaker 1: more good things are coming your way.